HA Sustainable Infrastructure Capital Inc (HASI) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to HASI's second-quarter 2025 earnings conference call and webcast. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It is now my pleasure to introduce your host, Aaron Chew, Vice President of Investor Relations.

您好，歡迎參加 HASI 2025 年第二季財報電話會議和網路廣播。（操作員指示）提醒一下，本次會議正在錄音。現在我很高興向大家介紹主持人、投資者關係副總裁 Aaron Chew。

Thank you, operator, and good afternoon to everyone joining us today for HASI's second-quarter 2025 conference call. Earlier this afternoon, HASI distributed a press release reporting our second quarter 2025 results, a copy of which is available on our website, along with the slide presentation we will be referring to today. This conference call is being webcast live on the Investor Relations page of our website, where a replay will be available later today.

謝謝接線員，祝今天參加 HASI 2025 年第二季電話會議的各位下午好。今天下午早些時候，HASI 發布了一份新聞稿，報告了我們 2025 年第二季的業績，其副本可在我們的網站上查閱，同時還有我們今天將要參考的幻燈片演示。本次電話會議將在我們網站的投資者關係頁面上進行網路直播，重播將於今天稍後提供。

Some of the comments made in this call are forward-looking statements, which are subject to risks and uncertainties described in the Risk Factors section of the company's Form 10-K and other filings with the SEC. Actual results may differ materially from those stated.

本次電話會議中的部分評論屬於前瞻性陳述，受公司 10-K 表格和向美國證券交易委員會提交的其他文件中「風險因素」部分所述風險和不確定性的影響。實際結果可能與所述結果有重大差異。

Today's discussion also includes some non-GAAP financial measures. A reconciliation of GAAP to non-GAAP financial measures is available in our earnings release and presentation. Joining us on the call today are Jeff Lipson, the company's President and CEO; as well as Chuck Melko, our Chief Financial Officer.

今天的討論也包括一些非公認會計準則財務指標。我們的收益報告和簡報中提供了 GAAP 與非 GAAP 財務指標的對帳表。今天參加電話會議的有公司總裁兼執行長 Jeff Lipson 和財務長 Chuck Melko。

And also available for Q&A are Susan Nickey, our Chief Client Officer; and Marc Pangburn, our Chief Revenue and Strategy Officer. To kick things off, I will first turn it over to our President and CEO, Jeff Lipson, who will open the presentation today on slide 3. Jeff?

我們的首席客戶長 Susan Nickey 和首席營收與策略長 Marc Pangburn 也可以參與問答。首先，我將把發言權交給我們的總裁兼執行長傑夫·利普森 (Jeff Lipson)，他將在第 3 張幻燈片上開始今天的演講。傑夫？

Thank you, Aaron, and thanks, everyone, for joining our Q2 2025 call. We are pleased to report another strong quarter and remain very confident in our business model and strategy. Our business model focused on climate-positive investments with programmatic clients, investing in noncyclical revenue-producing projects is indeed the ideal strategy for today's environment. In addition, our thoughtful approach to leverage, capital and liquidity likewise positions us well for long-term growth in all policy and macroeconomic environments.

謝謝 Aaron，也謝謝大家參加我們的 2025 年第二季電話會議。我們很高興地報告又一個強勁的季度，並且對我們的商業模式和策略仍然充滿信心。我們的商業模式專注於與專案客戶進行氣候積極型投資，投資非週期性創收專案確實是當今環境的理想策略。此外，我們對槓桿、資本和流動性的深思熟慮的方法同樣使我們在所有政策和宏觀經濟環境中都能夠實現長期成長。

Importantly, we also value diversification, investing in several different asset classes and consistently expanding our scope to create additional opportunities for growth and avoiding any material impacts of slowdowns in a particular market.

重要的是，我們也重視多元化，投資於幾個不同的資產類別，並不斷擴大我們的範圍，以創造更多的成長機會，並避免特定市場放緩的任何重大影響。

Our FTN business has grown meaningfully over the past few years, and we continue to explore opportunities beyond our historical focus, including investments that have very limited public policy ramifications. The impact of this consistent approach to our business has led to a number of accomplishments in the second quarter. We have increased our pipeline, which now exceeds $6 billion, and our new business year-to-date has an average yield greater than 10.5%.

我們的 FTN 業務在過去幾年中取得了顯著成長，我們將繼續探索超越我們傳統關注的機會，包括對公共政策影響非常有限的投資。這種一致的業務方針已在第二季度取得了一系列成就。我們擴大了產品線，目前已超過 60 億美元，今年迄今為止，我們的新業務平均收益率超過 10.5%。

On the capital raising side, we issued $1 billion of term debt and used $900 million of the proceeds to pay off maturing convertible notes and near-term senior debt. We also successfully closed nearly $600 million debt offering on our CCH1 joint venture, expanding its capacity and extending the investment period until late 2026.

在融資方面，我們發行了 10 億美元的定期債務，並使用其中 9 億美元償還到期的可轉換票據和近期優先債務。我們也成功完成了 CCH1 合資企業近 6 億美元的債務發行，擴大了其產能並將投資期延長至 2026 年底。

Our adjusted EPS for the quarter was $0.60, slightly down from last quarter, simply due to the timing of gain on sale revenue. And we are introducing a new metric that reflects the recurring revenue nature of our business entitled, adjusted recurring net investment income, which is 19% higher year-to-date as compared to 2024. I'm also pleased to reaffirm our guidance of 8% to 10% compound annual adjusted EPS growth through 2027 as we remain on track to meet this target over the next three years.

本季調整後的每股收益為 0.60 美元，較上一季略有下降，這僅僅是由於銷售收入收益的時機所致。我們正在引入一項反映我們業務經常性收入性質的新指標，即調整後的經常性淨投資收入，與 2024 年相比，今年迄今該指標增長了 19%。我也很高興地重申我們對 2027 年 8% 至 10% 複合年調整後每股收益成長率的預期，因為我們仍有望在未來三年內實現這一目標。

Turning to page 4. I'd like to provide context for why certain recent macroeconomic, legislative and policy items will result in positive outcomes for our business.

翻到第 4 頁。我想解釋為什麼某些最近的宏觀經濟、立法和政策項目將為我們的業務帶來正面成果。

First, the United States remains at a current and forecasted level of power demand that requires an all-the-above energy strategy. In fact, even with an all-of-the-above approach, supply is unlikely to keep pace, leading to higher power prices, which in turn will drive additional development, including renewables. The impact of changes in tax credit policy for renewables is still a few years away and given existing safe harboring more than enough time for the industry to adapt, particularly when economic viability without tax credits has fundamentally already occurred.

首先，美國仍然處於當前和預測的電力需求水平，需要全方位的能源策略。事實上，即使採取上述所有方法，供應也不太可能跟上步伐，從而導致電價上漲，進而推動包括再生能源在內的更多發展。再生能源稅收抵免政策變化的影響仍需幾年時間才能顯現，考慮到現有的安全港政策，該行業有足夠的時間進行適應，特別是在沒有稅收抵免的情況下，經濟可行性已經基本實現的情況下。

Storage ITC will also incrementally improve solar economics well into the next decade. And RNG remains an attractive asset class bolstered by the extension of the clean fuels PTC. For our business, these developments have a number of implications. The value of our existing portfolio increases as power prices increase. And although we don't mark-to-market our assets, we may see a higher yield on these investments over time.

儲能投資稅收抵免 (ITC) 也將在未來十年逐步改善太陽能經濟。受清潔燃料 PTC 延長的提振，RNG 仍然是一種具有吸引力的資產類別。對於我們的業務而言，這些發展具有許多影響。隨著電價上漲，我們現有投資組合的價值也會增加。儘管我們沒有對資產進行市價調整，但隨著時間的推移，這些投資的收益率可能會更高。

Our pipeline remains unimpacted by any policy changes, which I will discuss more in a moment. We also maintain a diversified approach to the business, and we continue to expand our scope. This approach, coupled with lower risk asset level investing allows us to be significantly more insulated from policy changes than other business models.

我們的管道不受任何政策變化的影響，稍後我將詳細討論。我們也保持多元化的業務方式，並不斷擴大我們的範圍。這種方法，加上較低風險的資產水準投資，使我們比其他商業模式更能抵禦政策變化的影響。

The lack of tax equity in the project capital stack a few years from now may create additional opportunities for HASI Capital to fill the void, and we are also well positioned to continue our long-standing client solution of providing capital recycling. Finally, we expect policy -- we expect the policy environment to result in less competition for project-level investments.

幾年後，專案資本堆疊中缺乏稅收公平可能會為 HASI Capital 創造更多機會來填補這一空白，而且我們也完全有能力繼續為客戶提供長期的資本回收解決方案。最後，我們預期政策－我們預期政策環境將導致專案級投資的競爭減少。

In summary, we have no need to make any material changes to our existing strategy to thrive in the current operating environment.

總而言之，我們不需要對現有策略做出任何重大改變，即可在當前的營運環境中蓬勃發展。

Turning to page 5. We emphasize that our investments are funded after development risk has been eliminated. This slide also reinforces that our existing pipeline is insulated from policy changes. The slide provides an example of the chronology of HASI's participation in utility scale investments. The underlying projects are already at an advanced stage when we add the investment to our pipeline. The project is even further advanced by the time we close our commitment and typically at or very near commercial operation when we fund our investment.

翻到第 5 頁。我們強調，我們的投資是在消除開發風險後才獲得資金的。這張投影片也強調了我們現有的管道不受政策變化的影響。投影片提供了 HASI 參與公用事業規模投資的時間順序範例。當我們將投資添加到我們的管道中時，基礎項目已經處於後期階段。當我們完成承諾時，專案會取得進一步進展，當我們為投資提供資金時，專案通常會達到或接近商業營運。

This is a reminder that our investments occur at a derisked stage of development, and we typically do not incur permitting or policy risk. Further, this graphic provides a depiction of the stage of the investments in our pipeline and strong evidence that our pipeline is not at risk related to permitting, tariffs or subsequent tax policy changes.

這提醒我們，我們的投資處於無風險的發展階段，通常不會產生許可或政策風險。此外，該圖表描述了我們管道投資的階段，並有力地證明我們的管道不會面臨與許可、關稅或後續稅收政策變化相關的風險。

Turning to page 6. Our pipeline has grown over the past few quarters and now exceeds $6 billion. Our pie chart reinforces the diversification of our business with strong representation from each of our markets and a new slice representing the Next Frontier asset classes discussed on our February earnings call.

翻到第 6 頁。過去幾個季度，我們的管道不斷擴大，目前已超過 60 億美元。我們的餅圖強化了我們業務的多樣化，其中每個市場都有強有力的代表性，並且有一個新部分代表了我們在二月份收益電話會議上討論的下一個前沿資產類別。

The behind-the-meter pipeline includes a long list of energy efficiency, community solar and residential solar and storage projects with several existing and new clients. The grid-connected pipeline is also very active as many developers are in search of capital to execute on their pipelines. And our fuels transportation and nature pipeline continues to reflect the significant opportunity, particularly in renewable natural gas and transportation, which are less impacted by policy changes.

電錶後項目包括一系列能源效率、社區太陽能和住宅太陽能及儲存項目，擁有多個現有客戶和新客戶。由於許多開發商都在尋求資金來實施其管道項目，因此併網管道也非常活躍。我們的燃料運輸和自然管道繼續反映出重大機遇，特別是在再生天然氣和運輸領域，這些領域受政策變化的影響較小。

Turning to page 7. I'd like to emphasize the significant improvement in the efficiency of our balance sheet. Putting aside our securitization activity and our retained capital, prior to CCH1 closing in 2024, $100 of equity raising resulted in $300 of investments. Following CCH1, we have doubled the investment dollars for each dollar of equity. Now that we have closed the debt facility at CCH1 with a vehicle leverage target of 0.5x, the investment dollars for each dollar of equity has tripled from the original business model.

翻到第 7 頁。我想強調的是我們的資產負債表效率有了顯著提高。撇開我們的證券化活動和保留資本，在 2024 年 CCH1 關閉之前，100 美元的股權融資帶來了 300 美元的投資。繼 CCH1 之後，我們每一美元股權的投資金額都翻了一番。現在我們已經關閉了 CCH1 的債務融資，車輛槓桿目標為 0.5 倍，每一美元股權的投資金額已經比原來的商業模式增加了兩倍。

As a reminder, we also earned fees on both the KKR Equity investment and the funded CCH1 debt balance. This slide is a powerful reminder of the significant strides we have made in our efforts to grow earnings while limiting additional equity issuance.

提醒一下，我們也從 KKR 股權投資和融資的 CCH1 債務餘額中賺取了費用。這張投影片有力地提醒了我們在限制額外股票發行的同時努力增加收益方面所取得的重大進展。

And with that, I will pass the call over to Chuck Melko to discuss our financial results.

說完這些，我將把電話轉給查克·梅爾科 (Chuck Melko) 討論我們的財務結果。

Thanks, Jeff. Before I get into our quarterly results, I would like to take a minute to discuss the ways we create value for our shareholders.

謝謝，傑夫。在介紹我們的季度業績之前，我想花一點時間討論我們為股東創造價值的方式。

First, we generate returns from closing accretive transactions into our portfolio, either through our CCH1 structure or directly onto our balance sheet and minimizing the cost of capital related to our funding sources. Second, once we have funded the investment, we can further optimize the portfolio and also reinvest cash received into other high-yielding investments. And lastly, we generate recurring and onetime fees related to our securitization activities and CCH1. These fees typically do not require any equity capital, which further enhances our return on equity.

首先，我們透過 CCH1 結構或直接在資產負債表上完成增值交易，將收益納入我們的投資組合，並最大限度地降低與我們的資金來源相關的資本成本。其次，一旦我們完成了投資，我們就可以進一步優化投資組合，並將收到的現金再投資於其他高收益投資。最後，我們產生與證券化活動和 CCH1 相關的經常性費用和一次性費用。這些費用通常不需要任何股本，這進一步提高了我們的股本回報率。

Now to take a look at our transaction activity. On slide 8, we have closed approximately $900 million in transactions in the first half of this year, which is 9% higher than last year. Q2 was lower than Q1 and was not the result of a particular theme, rather normal course changes in the closing timeline.

現在來看看我們的交易活動。在第 8 張投影片上，我們在今年上半年完成了約 9 億美元的交易，比去年高出 9%。Q2 低於 Q1，這並不是特定主題的結果，而是收盤時間表的正常變化。

Given the strength of our pipeline, we feel good about the outlook of closings the remainder of the year and the total being higher than 2024. We continue to be successful in closing transactions with double-digit yields and had a weighted average closing yield of greater than 10.5% and continue to execute across all of our asset classes.

鑑於我們管道的實力，我們對今年剩餘時間的關閉前景以及總數高於 2024 年的前景感到樂觀。我們繼續成功完成兩位數收益率的交易，加權平均收盤收益率超過 10.5%，並繼續執行我們所有的資產類別。

On slide 9, we are meaningfully scaling our platform with managed assets of $14.6 billion and a portfolio of $7.2 billion, up 13% and 16%, respectively, from the same time last year. Our CCH1 co-investment structure is now at $1.1 billion of funded assets and with the recent debt transaction at CCH1 has $1.5 billion of additional capacity that we expect will be filled before the end of 2026.

在第 9 張投影片上，我們正在大幅擴大我們的平台規模，管理資產為 146 億美元，投資組合為 72 億美元，分別比去年同期成長 13% 和 16%。我們的 CCH1 共同投資結構目前已擁有 11 億美元的融資資產，加上 CCH1 最近的債務交易，我們還擁有 15 億美元的額外容量，我們預計這些容量將在 2026 年底之前填滿。

As a reminder, the investments in CCH1 are comprised of both receivables and equity investments, but due to the structure show up in equity method investments on our balance sheet. Our portfolio yield is 8.3%, and we expect it to increase over time as we fund the higher-yielding investments that we have closed over the past year. To sum it up, we have built a base of diversified transactions, creating a recurring income stream that is a reliable source of income year after year, especially given the high-quality performance of the assets as is evidenced by our realized loss rate of less than 10 basis points.

提醒一下，CCH1 的投資包括應收帳款和股權投資，但由於結構原因，在我們的資產負債表中以權益法投資的形式顯示。我們的投資組合收益率為 8.3%，隨著我們為過去一年完成的高收益投資提供資金，我們預計收益率將隨著時間的推移而增加。總而言之，我們建立了多元化交易基礎，創造了經常性收入流，成為年復一年可靠的收入來源，特別是考慮到資產的高品質表現，我們的實際損失率低於 10 個基點就證明了這一點。

On slide 10, we are making a modification to one of our metrics, adjusted net investment income to include other recurring sources of revenue, and it is now called adjusted recurring net investment income. In addition to the income generated from our portfolio, we are also beginning to generate meaningful recurring fees from our retained interest in securitizations and CCH1 asset management fees. Combining these other recurring income sources with our portfolio income will provide a metric that is a helpful indicator of the growing high-quality recurring income that we are generating.

在第 10 張投影片上，我們正在修改我們的一項指標，即調整後的淨投資收入，以包括其他經常性收入來源，現在稱為調整後的經常性淨投資收入。除了從我們的投資組合中產生的收入之外，我們還開始從我們在證券化中的保留權益和 CCH1 資產管理費中產生可觀的經常性費用。將這些其他經常性收入來源與我們的投資組合收入相結合，將提供一個有用的指標，表明我們正在產生的不斷增長的高品質經常性收入。

When comparing our adjusted recurring net investment income for the first half of 2025 of $164 million to the same period last year, it has grown 19%. As a reminder, this is not our only source of income. And we also have income from gain on sale from our securitization activities and upfront fees from our CCH1 co-investment structure, which are more dependent on new transactions.

將我們 2025 年上半年的調整後經常性淨投資收入 1.64 億美元與去年同期進行比較，成長了 19%。提醒一下，這不是我們唯一的收入來源。我們也有來自證券化活動的銷售收益收入和來自 CCH1 共同投資結構的預付費用，這些收入更依賴新交易。

On slide 11, the efforts we have put into scaling a high-quality investment platform have resulted in our third investment-grade rating. We already had this rating with Moody's and Fitch, and we were recently upgraded to investment grade by S&P. Having three investment-grade ratings assist us in minimizing our cost of debt. This upgrade from S&P is a notable validation of our business model, especially given the macroeconomic backdrop that we have seen thus far in 2025.

在第 11 張投影片上，我們為擴大高品質投資平台所付出的努力使我們獲得了第三個投資等級評級。我們已經獲得了穆迪和惠譽的評級，最近標準普爾將我們的評級提升至投資級。擁有三個投資級評級有助於我們最大限度地降低債務成本。標準普爾的升級是對我們商業模式的顯著驗證，尤其是考慮到我們在 2025 年迄今所看到的宏觀經濟背景。

Subsequent to receiving our S&P upgrade, we issued $1 billion of bonds with $600 million that matures in 2031 and $400 million that matures in 2035. The proceeds were largely used to refinance $900 million of debt, and this transaction displays our capabilities in managing our debt structure to minimize risk and cost. To further illustrate these capabilities, we partially tendered the 2026 bonds that were issued in 2021 when the 10-year treasury was at 75 basis points, and it was evident that interest rates could be much higher when we refinance the bonds.

在獲得標準普爾升級後，我們發行了 10 億美元的債券，其中 6 億美元將於 2031 年到期，4 億美元將於 2035 年到期。所得款項主要用於再融資 9 億美元的債務，這筆交易展示了我們管理債務結構以最大限度地降低風險和成本的能力。為了進一步說明這些能力，我們部分投標了 2021 年發行的 2026 年債券，當時 10 年期公債利率為 75 個基點，很明顯，當我們為這些債券再融資時，利率可能會高得多。

We managed our business and scaled our platform to give us access to the investment-grade market and also executed some hedges, and we're able to refinance at a cost that keeps us well positioned to meet our earnings guidance and hit our target ROE. This is a great example of the resilient balance sheet we have built and the capabilities of our liability platform. Related to our capital structure, we ended the quarter with a debt-to-equity ratio of 1.8x and continue to operate within our target range of 1.5x to 2x.

我們管理我們的業務並擴展我們的平台，使我們能夠進入投資級市場，同時也執行了一些對沖，我們能夠以一定的成本進行再融資，從而讓我們能夠很好地滿足我們的盈利預期並達到我們的目標 ROE。這是我們建立的彈性資產負債表和負債平台能力的一個很好的例子。與我們的資本結構相關，本季末我們的負債權益比率為 1.8 倍，並繼續在 1.5 倍至 2 倍的目標範圍內運作。

Lastly, we continue to operate with strong levels of liquidity, which was $1.4 billion at the end of the second quarter. This liquidity will provide us flexibility in funding our business and managing the refinancing of our remaining 2026 bond maturity.

最後，我們繼續以強勁的流動性水平運營，第二季末的流動性為 14 億美元。這種流動性將為我們提供業務融資和管理剩餘 2026 年債券到期再融資的靈活性。

On slide 12, we illustrate the trend in our portfolio yield and our realized cost of debt. We have been able to maintain our margins even as interest rates have risen and expect to see our portfolio yield further increase as our higher-yielding investments are funded. We will see a slight increase in our cost of debt next quarter when the recent debt issuance impacts our interest expense. The effective weighted average cost of this recent issuance was 6.28%, and we expect it to impact our total average cost by approximately 20 basis points.

在投影片 12 上，我們展示了我們的投資組合收益率和已實現債務成本的趨勢。即使利率上升，我們仍然能夠維持利潤率，隨著高收益投資的資金到位，我們預計投資組合收益率將進一步提高。當最近的債務發行影響我們的利息支出時，下個季度我們的債務成本將略有增加。此次發行的有效加權平均成本為 6.28%，我們預計它將對我們的總平均成本產生約 20 個基點的影響。

On slide 13, our Q2 adjusted EPS was $0.60, and we are continuing to deliver an attractive return with our ROE of 11.9% in Q2.

在第 13 張投影片上，我們第二季調整後的每股收益為 0.60 美元，並且我們在第二季繼續實現可觀的回報，淨資產收益率為 11.9%。

Our newly modified metric, adjusted recurring investment income, was $85 million for the quarter and increased 25% from the same period in the prior year. Our gain on sale origination fee and other income was $9 million. As highlighted on our Q1 call, our full year gain on sale activity is expected to be more in line with the levels seen between 2021 and 2023, and we expect the majority of the total gain on sale this year to come through in the second half of the year due to the expected timing of closings.

我們新修改的指標，即調整後的經常性投資收入，本季為 8,500 萬美元，比去年同期成長 25%。我們的銷售發起費和其他收入收益為 900 萬美元。正如我們在第一季電話會議上所強調的那樣，我們預計全年銷售收益將與 2021 年至 2023 年之間的水平更加一致，並且由於預計的成交時間，我們預計今年銷售總收益的大部分將在下半年實現。

Overall, we are executing on the activities that will continue to deliver value through the growth of our adjusted recurring investment income and the efficiency created from CCH1 on the need for equity capital. And we believe we are well on track to deliver on our guidance to grow earnings into 2027.

總體而言，我們正在執行的活動將透過調整後的經常性投資收入的成長以及 CCH1 對股權資本需求產生的效率來繼續創造價值。我們相信，我們正順利實現 2027 年實現獲利成長的預期。

Before I hand the call back to Jeff, in an effort to ensure we are providing information that is most useful to our investors, we will be publishing on our website a summary of our key historical metrics that should assist in building models. We hope that it is helpful and certainly would like to hear your feedback.

在我將電話轉回給傑夫之前，為了確保我們提供的資訊對投資者最有用，我們將在我們的網站上發布有助於建立模型的關鍵歷史指標摘要。我們希望它能有所幫助，當然希望聽到您的回饋。

With that, I will pass it back to Jeff for a few topics in closing.

最後，我會把話題轉回給 Jeff，由他來討論幾個主題。

Thanks, Chuck. Turning to page 14. We present our sustainability and impact highlights, noting our cumulative carbon count and water count numbers reflect the significant impact of our investment strategy over time. Including on page 15, our business model has produced the powerful combination of robust investment activity, access to deep pools of capital, attractive margins and results that are noncyclical and sustainable in all interest rate and policy environments.

謝謝，查克。翻到第 14 頁。我們介紹了我們的可持續性和影響力亮點，並指出我們的累積碳計數和水計數反映了我們的投資策略在長期內的重大影響。包括在第15頁中提到的，我們的商業模式已經形成了強大的組合：強勁的投資活動、深厚的資本池、誘人的利潤率以及在所有利率和政策環境下都具有非週期性和可持續性的業績。

The core components of this resilient business model have been in place for several years, validating its true durability. Successful execution of this business model relies on a talented team, and my HASI colleagues continue to flawlessly and relentlessly overcome all obstacles reflected in our ongoing ability to achieve our goals. As always, thank you to this outstanding team.

這種有彈性的商業模式的核心組成部分已經存在多年，證明了其真正的持久性。這個商業模式的成功實施依賴於一支才華橫溢的團隊，我的 HASI 同事們將繼續完美而不懈地克服所有障礙，並不斷實現我們的目標。一如既往，感謝這支出色的團隊。

Operator, please open the line for questions.

接線員，請打開熱線以回答問題。

(Operator Instructions) Chris Dendrinos, RBC Capital Markets.

（操作員指示）RBC Capital Markets 的 Chris Dendrinos。

Thank you and good evening. Maybe to start here, we noted that you all were an acquirer, I think, of the ServiceCo from NOVA. So can you maybe chat a little bit about that transaction and what that does for you all going forward? Thanks.

謝謝，晚上好。也許從這裡開始，我們注意到你們都是 NOVA 的 ServiceCo 的收購者。那麼，您能否稍微談談這筆交易以及它對你們未來有何影響？謝謝。

Sure. Thanks for the question, Chris. So just to clarify, SunStrong is a joint venture that's 50% owned by HASI and is a servicer of residential solar leases. SunStrong has been awarded the servicing by the purchasers of Sunnova -- of the Sunnova portfolio. And we're certainly pleased by that.

當然。謝謝你的提問，克里斯。需要澄清的是，SunStrong 是一家合資企業，由 HASI 持有 50% 的股份，是一家住宅太陽能租賃服務商。SunStrong 已獲得 Sunnova 購買者的青睞，並獲得了 Sunnova 產品組合的服務。我們對此感到非常高興。

We're pleased by the progress of SunStrong overall. We have a good management team there. The company is well positioned in the current environment and the Sunnova transaction will provide scale to the business. So we're certainly very pleased with the progress of our SunStrong team. But that's a 50% joint venture in terms of HASI's ownership.

我們對 SunStrong 的整體進展感到滿意。我們在那裡有一支優秀的管理團隊。該公司在當前環境下處於有利地位，而 Sunnova 交易將擴大其業務規模。因此，我們對 SunStrong 團隊的進步感到非常滿意。但就 HASI 的所有權而言，這是一家 50% 的合資企業。

Got it. Thank you. And I mean, I guess, any kind of color you can provide on how that might impact EPS going forward? And then I have a quick follow-up as well.

知道了。謝謝。我的意思是，您能否提供任何細節來說明這將如何影響未來的每股盈餘？然後我也會快速跟進。

Go ahead, Chuck.

繼續吧，查克。

Yeah. Chris, it's Chuck. So right now, SunStrong, as Jeff mentioned, is a JV and the JV that we'll be servicing, at this current time is not really coming through in our results that you can see. But as the servicing platform does get some scale with the Sunnova assets coming into it over time, whatever other activities that might get into, we will start to see some of the margins from that business come through most likely with where you see our other equity investments coming in.

是的。克里斯，我是查克。因此，正如 Jeff 所提到的，SunStrong 目前是一家合資企業，而我們將要服務的合資企業目前並沒有真正體現在我們的業績中。但隨著 Sunnova 資產的逐步加入，服務平台的規模逐漸擴大，無論其他活動如何開展，我們都會開始看到該業務的部分利潤率，最有可能的就是您會看到我們的其他股權投資的加入。

And then, I guess, just a related note on resi performance. I think there was an article in the Wall Street Journal a couple of weeks back, highlighting some underperformance of loans out there, I think they mentioned kind of GoodLeap specifically. But anything to comment on as far as that portfolio is performing? I think you've highlighted that you have really low losses. So I assumed that you all weren't being impacted, but any kind of thoughts there?

然後，我想，這只是關於 resi 性能的相關說明。我記得幾週前《華爾街日報》上有一篇文章，強調了一些貸款表現不佳的情況，我認為他們特別提到了 GoodLeap。但就該投資組合的表現而言，您有什麼可評論的嗎？我認為您已經強調您的損失確實很低。所以我認為你們都沒有受到影響，但有什麼想法嗎？

Thanks for the question. And you did say loans in your question and the Wall Street Journal article specifically referenced loans. More than 95% of the HASI portfolio is leases and lease customers have significant incentives to continue to make the payments much more so than loan customers. And our portfolio continues to perform very, very well. And many of the issues that were brought about in that article were present in resi solar loans are just not present in leases.

謝謝你的提問。您在問題中確實提到了貸款，《華爾街日報》的文章也特別提到了貸款。HASI 投資組合中超過 95% 是租賃，且租賃客戶比貸款客戶有更大的動機繼續付款。我們的投資組合持續表現非常出色。該文章中提出的許多問題在住宅太陽能貸款中都存在，但在租賃中卻不存在。

So that's a little bit of apples and oranges there.

所以有點像蘋果和橘子。

Brian Lee, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的 Brian Lee。

This is Tyler Bisset on for Brian. You've seen steadily increasing adjusted ROEs, suggesting ROEs on new deals is meaningfully higher than your legacy deals. You also called out some incremental ROEs of like 19% and up to 28% with the additional CCH1 leverage. So can you discuss like how you expect your adjusted ROE to trend from here? And could you see a meaningful bump as you work through the CCH1 funding?

我是泰勒‧比塞特 (Tyler Bisset)，取代布萊恩 (Brian)。您已經看到調整後的 ROE 穩步上升，這表明新交易的 ROE 明顯高於您的傳統交易。您還提到，透過增加 CCH1 槓桿，ROE 可以增加 19% 甚至高達 28%。那麼，您能否討論一下您預計調整後的 ROE 從現在開始將如何發展？在您處理 CCH1 資金時，您是否會看到顯著的成長？

Thanks for the question. Maybe I will start and Chuck can add on. I just want to make a clarification that the ROEs that are on slide 7 are incremental ROE dollars invested without taking into account expenses, or SG&A or anything like that. There are illustrative ROEs of incremental dollars put to work under the more and more capital-efficient structure that we're displaying on that slide. So that doesn't relate directly to the ROEs on HASI's business.

謝謝你的提問。也許我會開始，然後查克可以補充。我只是想澄清一下，第 7 張投影片上的 ROE 是投資的增量 ROE 美元，沒有考慮費用、SG&A 或類似費用。我們在投影片上展示的是在越來越有效率的資本結構下投入使用的增量資金的說明性 ROE。所以這與 HASI 業務的 ROE 沒有直接關係。

But ROEs on HASI's business do have an upward trend, influenced by some of the same impact on this slide, but I wouldn't compare them specifically to the ROEs on the full business when we include the operating expenses of the business. And Chuck, if you want to add anything to that?

但 HASI 業務的 ROE 確實呈現上升趨勢，受到本投影片中一些相同影響的影響，但當我們將業務的營運費用納入時，我不會將其與整個業務的 ROE 進行具體比較。查克，你還有什麼要補充的嗎？

Yes. I think the other thing I'd add is in the prepared remarks, we mentioned some commentary around capital efficiency. And to the extent that we continue on that trend to reduce the amount of equity needed to fund our investments and some of these activities we're getting into with asset management fees with CCH1, to the extent we're increasing our earnings there because they don't need equity, we will see a steady increase in ROE. But I wouldn't say that there's going to be any big jump. It will most likely just be a gradual increase.

是的。我想補充的另一件事是，在準備好的評論中，我們提到了一些有關資本效率的評論。如果我們繼續保持這種趨勢，減少投資所需的股權數量，以及我們透過與 CCH1 合作收取資產管理費而進行的一些活動，由於他們不需要股權，我們在那裡的收益就會增加，那麼我們將看到 ROE 穩步增長。但我不會說會有任何大的飛躍。它很可能只是一個逐漸增加的過程。

And then -- on the CCH1 debt, how will this mechanically flow through your income statements? And how do credit rating agencies treat this debt? Like is this going to be applied to your leverage ratio?

然後—關於 CCH1 債務，它將如何機械地流入您的損益表？信用評等機構又如何看待這些債務呢？這會應用到你的槓桿率嗎？

Yes. So on the first part on how the debt comes through in our financials. So the debt -- so CCH1 is not in its entirety on its balance sheet as a joint venture. So the debt is being -- was placed at CCH1. It does not show up in our financials and the way that it will come through in our results is through increasing our returns a bit on CCH1 as investments are funded with the proceeds.

是的。第一部分是關於債務如何影響我們的財務狀況。因此，債務－CCH1 並不完全在其作為合資企業的資產負債表上。因此債務被置於 CCH1。它不會體現在我們的財務狀況中，而體現在我們的業績中的方式是透過增加 CCH1 的回報，因為投資是用收益資助的。

In terms of the rating agencies, we have talked to the rating agencies about this, of course. And in fact, I think S&P may have actually written this in the report that when they look at these kinds of structures that as long as you are keeping the debt-to-equity ratio under 0.5-to-1, they don't really factor it in. So it's just kind of a nonevent. And we don't have any intent to go any higher than that leverage ratio. So I think we're going to be just fine from a rating agency standpoint.

至於評等機構，我們當然已經與評等機構討論過這個問題。事實上，我認為標準普爾可能已經在報告中寫道，當他們審視這些結構時，只要你將債務權益比率保持在 0.5 比 1 以下，他們就不會將其考慮在內。所以這只是一件無關緊要的事。我們無意進一步提高槓桿率。因此我認為從評級機構的角度來看我們會很好。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Maheep Mandloi, Mizuho.

Maheep Mandloi，瑞穗。

Hey, good evening. Thanks for the question. On slide 6, just looking at the mix here, could you just talk about what is included in Next Frontier? I think for the first time we saw this broken out some -- nice to see that level. What's in there? And secondly, just on the mix of BTM solar and BTM energy efficiency. Could you talk about like historically, how has that trended? Are you seeing more of energy efficiency now?

嘿，晚上好。謝謝你的提問。在第 6 張投影片上，只看一下這裡的組合，您能談談 Next Frontier 中包含的內容嗎？我認為這是我們第一次看到這種突破——很高興看到這種水平。裡面有什麼？其次，僅討論 BTM 太陽能和 BTM 能源效率的混合。能談談歷史上的趨勢嗎？現在您是否看到了更多的能源效率？

Or how to think about that?

或是該如何去思考這個問題？

Thanks, Maheep. So on the Next Frontier, just as a reminder, in our February call, we put forth this notion of Next Frontier where we may expand the business. I talked a little bit about that in the prepared remarks. The relevant slide is on page 17 in the appendix in this afternoon's deck. And so the progression from disclosing in February where we may take the business next to disclosing that we have some of these investments in the pipeline is sort of the natural chronology.

謝謝，Maheep。因此，關於“下一個前沿”，提醒一下，在我們二月份的電話會議上，我們提出了“下一個前沿”的概念，我們可能會擴大業務。我在準備好的發言中稍微談了這一點。相關投影片位於今天下午的簡報附錄第 17 頁。因此，從二月披露我們可能開展業務到披露我們正在進行的一些投資，這一進展是一種自然的時間順序。

We're not going to talk specifically about exactly what's in the pipeline. The third step of that will be to actually close a transaction, and then we'll talk about it. But I will say I'm very pleased that in relatively short order, we've identified Next Frontier investments, and they're at a stage where they are in the pipeline. So I think we feel good about that and the diversification that it will bring to the business.

我們不會具體談論正在籌備中的項目。第三步是實際完成交易，然後我們再討論它。但我要說的是，我很高興我們在相對較短的時間內確定了下一個前沿投資，而且它們正處於籌備階段。所以我認為我們對此以及它將為業務帶來的多樣化感到滿意。

On the second part of your question, I think the breakout in behind the meter between solar, which is primarily community and resi solar and storage and a little bit of C&I solar and the energy efficiency is just something we thought would be helpful. I think that split, which this quarter is roughly 50-50 is relatively consistent in terms of the -- what has been the behind-the-meter slice and the relevant sizes of those two pieces of business. So hopefully, that's helpful in understanding what's in the pipeline.

關於你問題的第二部分，我認為，在太陽能發電量背後，主要是社區和住宅太陽能與儲能，以及少量的 C&I 太陽能和能源效率之間的突破，我們認為會有所幫助。我認為，本季的這種比例約為 50-50，就電錶後份額以及這兩部分業務的相關規模而言，這種比例相對一致。所以希望這有助於理解正在進行的事情。

And maybe just one clarification. I think someone on the slide -- maybe slide 4, I saw you guys talking about replacing tax equity. Just to clarify, that's for post-tax credit time line? Or is it something you're looking to invest in even or replacing tax equity in the next few years as well.

也許只需要澄清一點。我想在幻燈片上——也許是幻燈片 4 上，我看到你們在談論取代稅收公平。只是為了澄清一下，這是稅後抵免時間表嗎？或者您希望在未來幾年內對其進行投資或替代稅收公平？

Okay. I'm going to ask Marc to answer that one.

好的。我要請馬克來回答這個問題。

Maheep, it's Marc. We would not anticipate replacing tax equity in the current structure. But as tax credits go away, there is less need for tax equity, and that will create more room in the capital stack for investors like us who focus on monetizing cash positions. So this is primarily a post-tax credit opportunity.

Maheep，我是馬克。我們不會預期取代現有結構中的稅收公平。但隨著稅收抵免的消失，對稅收公平的需求就會減少，這將為像我們這樣專注於將現金部位貨幣化的投資者在資本堆疊中創造更多的空間。所以這主要是一個稅後抵免機會。

Noah Kaye, Oppenheimer.

諾亞·凱伊，奧本海默。

Last quarter, you talked about, I think, a record volume of inbound client requests, and we saw that with the pipeline expanding quarter-over-quarter. I would just like to get a sense of what you and really your customers are trying to solve for in the current environment.

上個季度，您談到了創紀錄的客戶入站請求量，而且我們看到管道數量逐季擴大。我只是想了解您和您的客戶在當前環境下真正想要解決的問題。

I think you made some comments in your opening remarks around the shifting policy environment and your expectations that transactions will kind of continue to pick up in the back half. But we would just sort of love to get an understanding of how you and your clients are approaching some of the policy and regulatory changes here as it relates to developing not only the 12-month pipeline, but further out opportunities.

我認為您在開場白中對不斷變化的政策環境發表了一些評論，並且您預計下半年交易將繼續回升。但我們只是想了解您和您的客戶如何應對這裡的一些政策和監管變化，因為這不僅與開發 12 個月的管道有關，還與開發更遠的機會有關。

Sure. Thanks for the question, Noah. I'm actually going to ask Susan to go ahead and answer that.

當然。謝謝你的提問，諾亞。我實際上要請蘇珊繼續回答這個問題。

Yes. Thanks, Noah. And really, the fundamentals are so strong. That's what's the core tailwinds for our clients' business. And then obviously, we follow on as those projects and their pipelines mature.

是的。謝謝，諾亞。事實上，基本面非常強勁。這就是我們客戶業務的核心順風。然後顯然，隨著這些項目及其管道的成熟，我們將繼續跟進。

But with the demand side of the business, not only on the utility scale side, but behind the meter, Sunrun and some of other clients have reported out, that's really where the fundamentals are. And then clearly, everyone is now navigating through what's passed with the OBB, but have invested through safe harboring to be able to continue and plan and build out their pipelines for not only next year, but for the next several years. But our pipeline, again, is -- that we report out is for 12 months.

但就業務的需求方而言，不僅在公用事業規模方面，而且在電錶背後，Sunrun 和其他一些客戶已經報告說，這才是真正的基本面所在。顯然，現在每個人都在了解 OBB 的進展情況，但都透過安全港進行了投資，以便能夠繼續規劃和建造不僅在明年，而且在未來幾年的管道。但我們的管道是——我們報告的是 12 個月的。

Yes. And to follow up on the previous question, I mean, I believe certainly for grid connected, but probably for a decent chunk of the overall portfolio, there's been substantial safe harboring already. So this future opportunity around replacing tax equity, I imagine that might flow first to behind the meter and later to utility, but over a multiyear period. Is that kind of the right way to think about it?

是的。為了繼續回答上一個問題，我的意思是，我相信對於併網項目來說肯定已經存在相當多的安全港，但對於整體投資組合中的相當一部分來說可能已經存在相當多的安全港。因此，我認為，圍繞取代稅收公平的未來機會可能首先流向電錶後面，然後流向公用事業，但需要多年的時間。這是正確的思考方式嗎？

I think that's right, Noah. And again, as Marc said, that's still a couple of years out. We just wanted to plant the seed that there's now going to be a void in the capital stack and with an outcome of this tax policy change may be that HASI is able to put more dollars to work per project. But again, this is not for a couple of years. And I think the way you laid it out is likely the way it will play out.

我認為這是對的，諾亞。正如馬克所說，這還需要幾年的時間。我們只是想播下這樣的種子：現在資本堆疊中將出現空白，而這項稅收政策變化的結果可能是 HASI 能夠在每個項目中投入更多的資金。但話說回來，這還不是幾年的事。我認為您所闡述的方式很可能是事情最終會如何發展的方式。

Great. If I could sneak one more in. I just want to talk about cash generation. The continued helpful disclosures around adjusted cash flow from ops and other portfolio collections. Do notice that, that is somewhat down on a run rate versus 2024.

偉大的。如果我能再偷偷溜進去一個。我只想談談現金產生。有關來自營運和其他投資組合的調整現金流的持續有益披露。請注意，與 2024 年相比，運行率略有下降。

Can you just talk through any kind of expected timing and cash generation for the back half?

您能否談談下半年的預期時間和現金產生？

Noah, this is Chuck. Looking at -- well, let me start with what's going into these numbers. When we look at cash collected from our portfolio. Certainly, that includes all of the cash distributions that we're receiving related to the operations of the projects. But there can be other activities that occur at the project such as refinancing of debt or initial debt that's being put on to a project that getting favorable terms on that financing.

諾亞，這是查克。看一下——好吧，讓我先來看看這些數字的含義。當我們查看從投資組合中收集的現金。當然，這包括我們收到的與專案營運相關的所有現金分配。但專案中也可能發生其他活動，例如債務再融資或投入專案的初始債務，以獲得融資的優惠條款。

We oftentimes get a distribution out of it.

我們常常從中獲得分佈。

So it's tough to really get a trend of that, of course. And in 2024, there was a little bit of that going on that is causing this to look like there's a little bit of a downtrend here. But I will say that this quarter, we did have a bit of an uptick in cash received from both our equity investments and our loans. So we're seeing a positive trend there. But I would say that the trend that you're seeing right now, I mean, the rest of the year will probably continue that same growth rate and will probably mirror the growth in our portfolio.

當然，要真正了解這個趨勢是困難的。而在 2024 年，又出現了一些類似的情況，導致這裡看起來出現了一些下降趨勢。但我要說的是，本季我們從股權投資和貸款中獲得的現金確實有所增加。所以我們看到了正面的趨勢。但我想說的是，您現在看到的趨勢是，今年剩餘時間可能會繼續保持相同的成長率，並可能反映出我們投資組合的成長。

Moses Sutton, BNP Paribas.

法國巴黎銀行的摩西·薩頓。

Closed transactions seem rather low. I think you noted the year-to-date numbers, so it implies around like $190 million, if I'm getting that right. So how should we characterize that and the timing element? And then conversely, on the adjusted cash from operations plus other portfolio collections, that was back up to like $200 million from the negative number in the first quarter. I know that's also a lumpy thing based on how you get collections. Should we think of that as returning to like a $300 million plus a quarter number? So just those two on transactions and then the adjusted cash from operations.

已完成的交易似乎相當少。我想您注意到了年初至今的數字，所以如果我沒理解錯的話，這意味著大約 1.9 億美元。那我們該如何描述這一點和時間因素呢？相反，調整後的營運現金流量加上其他投資組合收益則從第一季的負數回升至 2 億美元。我知道，根據您如何收集資料，這也是一件棘手的事情。我們是否應該認為這又回到了 3 億美元加上一個季度的數字？因此，僅涉及交易的這兩項，以及調整後的經營現金流。

So thanks, Moses, for the question. I'll take the first part. I'll ask Chuck to take the second part of that question. I would encourage you to read absolutely nothing into the second quarter volumes in isolation. I think we've consistently talked about the lumpiness in the business and the nature of closings being out of our control and really driven by our clients.

所以感謝摩西提出這個問題。我將選擇第一部分。我請查克回答問題的第二部分。我鼓勵您不要孤立地解讀第二季度的內容。我認為我們一直在談論業務中的不穩定性以及關閉的性質是我們無法控制的，並且實際上是由我們的客戶驅動的。

And so sometimes we have outsized quarters and slower quarters in terms of actual investment volume. It's part of the reason we do guidance over three years and certainly on a number such as volume in the business, I'd encourage you to at least look at a one-year number and not a quarterly number. And as Chuck mentioned in the prepared remarks, it is our expectation at this point that volumes will exceed last year. So I wouldn't read anything into the second quarter. For the other part of the question, Chuck?

因此，就實際投資金額而言，有時我們會經歷超額的季度，有時也會經歷較慢的季度。這是我們制定三年期指導的原因之一，當然對於業務量等數字，我鼓勵您至少查看一年的數字，而不是季度數字。正如查克在準備好的演講中提到的那樣，我們目前的預期是交易量將超過去年。所以我不會解讀第二季的任何內容。對於問題的另一部分，查克？

Yes. Moses. So I think the answer to your question really is tied into the response to Noah's question here. When you're looking at the trailing 12-month from last quarter going to this quarter, it drops off a little bit because the last quarter and the trailing 12 months that was in there last period had some of the, I'll call it, onetime cash distributions coming off of some of our projects. So I wouldn't read into that decline in the trailing 12 months at all there in terms of run rate.

是的。摩西。所以我認為你的問題的答案確實與諾亞在這裡的問題的回答有關。當您查看從上一季到本季度的過去 12 個月時，您會發現該數字略有下降，因為上一季和上一期間的過去 12 個月中有一些（我稱之為）一次性現金分配來自我們的一些項目。因此，從運行率的角度來看，我根本不會考慮過去 12 個月的下降。

That's very helpful. If I could squeeze one more in. If I recall from maybe it was two or three years ago when there was confusion in the investor community on the timing of cash collections or sort of cash flow waterfall in projects where tax equity got money before you like just the structure of the matter, it implied that at a certain point in project life in aggregate in the sense, when you did a lot of -- after you did a lot of equity investments, you would actually earn more than the amount that would show up in adjusted earnings.

這非常有幫助。如果我能再擠進一個。如果我沒記錯的話，大概是兩三年前，當時投資者群體對現金回收時間或現金流瀑布式增長感到困惑，在這些項目中，稅收股權先於你獲得資金，就像事情的結構一樣，它意味著在項目生命週期的某個階段，從總體意義上講，當你做了很多——在你做了很多股權投資之後，你實際上賺到的錢會比調整後收入的錢還多。

So is there a certain point that we might expect -- this is a further out question on cash flow and cash waterfall, where you -- even though you're continuing to make equity investments, pref equity investments, JV investments like that, where some of the legacy stuff will be seeing cash come in at a pretty significantly higher number as tax equity reaches their hurdle. And is that around '25, '26, '27, is that a fair view there? And could you quantify that? Sorry for the long question.

那麼，我們是否可以預期到某個點——這是關於現金流和現金瀑布的進一步問題，在這個點上——即使你繼續進行股權投資、優先股權投資、合資投資之類的，隨著稅收股權達到其門檻，一些遺留資產的現金流入將顯著增加。那大概是 25、26、27 年左右，這個觀點合理嗎？你能量化一下嗎？抱歉，問題這麼長。

Yes. It's kind of tough to pinpoint exactly when that's going to happen. Yes, it will start to happen. And as I mentioned a little bit ago, we are starting to get a little bit more cash coming in the door. But because we are continuing to add investments with that similar profile, we can't really put a definitive date where that's going to -- you're going to start to see that in our portfolio.

是的。很難準確指出這一情況何時會發生。是的，它會開始發生。正如我剛才提到的，我們開始獲得更多的現金流入。但由於我們正在繼續增加具有類似特徵的投資，因此我們無法真正確定一個確切的日期——您將開始在我們的投資組合中看到這一點。

But it has started to happen on old deals.

但在舊交易中，這種情況已經開始發生。

(Operator Instructions) Vikram Bagri, Citi.

（操作員指示）Vikram Bagri，花旗銀行。

It's Ted on for Vik. Just one question on the model. I think there was a comment on the prior quarter call that gain on sale revenue would be more in line with 2021 to 2023 levels. Should we still expect that to be the case this year? And if so, what do you expect in terms of cadence for the third and fourth quarters?

泰德 (Ted) 代替維克 (Vik)。關於模型只有一個問題。我認為上一季電話會議上有人評論說，銷售收入收益將更符合 2021 年至 2023 年的水準。我們是否仍應期待今年會出現這種情況？如果是的話，您對第三季和第四季的節奏有何預期？

Yes, that's the case. We do still expect to see gain on sale in the levels that we mentioned, average of '21 through '23. So Q3 and Q4 certainly will be higher than we saw in Q2 here. But I would just prorate Q3, Q4 to get to those total average annual levels.

是的，確實如此。我們仍然預計銷售額將達到我們提到的平均水平，即 21 年至 23 年的平均水平。因此第三季和第四季的業績肯定會高於第二季。但我只會按比例分配第三季度和第四季度，以達到總年平均值。

Ben Kallo, Baird.

本卡洛，貝爾德。

Just on the ITC, can you talk about what you're seeing in terms of projects being pulled forward from ITC changes? Or is it -- I guess maybe if we could break it down by solar and everything else and then utility solar and everything else. And then when you look at the Next Frontier investments like geothermal and fuel cells, which now have a favorable tax treatment, how do you view this under that Next Frontier type investment label?

僅就 ITC 而言，您能否談談您所看到的因 ITC 變化而提前的專案情況？或者是——我想也許我們可以將其按太陽能和其他一切進行分解，然後按公用事業太陽能和其他一切進行分解。然後，當您看到地熱和燃料電池等下一代前沿投資現在享有優惠的稅收待遇時，您如何看待這種在下一代前沿投資標籤下的投資？

Thanks, Ben. I think on the first part of the question, we're not seeing meaningful pull forward. I think the nature of many of the investments that we make and the projects that our clients develop is such that they're normally moving as fast as they can. I think our page 5 is a good indication of how much work they have to do to get a project to commercial operation. So we're not really hearing or seeing from our clients much in the way of acceleration.

謝謝，本。我認為，就問題的第一部分而言，我們沒有看到有意義的進步。我認為，我們進行的許多投資以及我們的客戶開發的許多項目的性質都是這樣的，它們通常都會盡可能快地發展。我認為我們的第 5 頁很好地表明了他們為使專案投入商業運營需要做多少工作。因此，我們實際上並沒有從客戶那裡聽到或看到太多有關加速的信息。

We are seeing our clients remain active. We're not seeing delays, but we're really not seeing much in the way of acceleration.

我們看到我們的客戶仍然活躍。我們沒有看到延遲，但我們確實沒有看到加速的跡象。

On your second part of your question, I would just answer it more holistically that many of the investment categories in the Next Frontier are less susceptible, I would say, to policy changes and less driven by tax policy. And that's one of the evolutions of our business that over time, our business through the phaseout that we're already seeing in some of the core business and through the Next Frontier, there'll be less of a tax policy orientation to our business over time as well. So I think that's probably the best way to answer your question there.

關於您問題的第二部分，我想更全面地回答，我認為「下一個前沿」中的許多投資類別不太容易受到政策變化的影響，也不太受稅收政策的驅動。這是我們業務的演變之一，隨著時間的推移，我們的業務將逐步淘汰，我們已經在一些核心業務中看到了這一點，透過下一個前沿，隨著時間的推移，稅收政策對我們業務的導向也會減少。所以我認為這可能是回答你的問題的最佳方式。

Okay. And if I could sneak one more in, and sorry if you covered it, I'll jump around. But in the past, you talked about maybe moving internationally. Could you just give us an update there?

好的。如果我可以再偷偷地加一個，如果你掩蓋了它，我很抱歉，我會跳起來。但過去，您曾談到可能走向國際。您能提供我們一下最新進展嗎？

Sure. I don't think we really have anything to report, Ben. We've talked about it a few times. I think the most likely approach there, as we've said before, is to work with one of our existing long-term clients, many of whom are multinationals on a non-US project and use that as a way to expand our business internationally.

當然。我認為我們確實沒有什麼可報告的，本。我們已經討論過幾次了。我認為最有可能的方法，正如我們之前所說的，就是與我們現有的長期客戶之一合作，其中許多客戶都是非美國項目的跨國公司，並以此作為擴展我們國際業務的一種方式。

But we really just don't have anything currently to report on that front on this call.

但目前我們確實還沒有任何關於這方面的內容可以在這次通話中報告。

Ladies and gentlemen, at this time, there are no further questions. The conference of HASI has now concluded. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.

女士們、先生們，目前沒有其他問題。HASI會議現已結束。感謝您的參與。現在您可以斷開線路了。謝謝。