Hafnia Ltd (HAFN) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to Hafnia's second-quarter 2025 financial results presentation. We will begin shortly. You will be brought to today's presentation by Hafnia's CEO, Mikael Skov; CFO, Perry Van Echtelt; Søren Winther, VP Commercial; and Thomas Andersen, EVP, Head of Investor Relations. They will be pleased to address any questions after the presentation. (Operator Instructions)

歡迎參加 Hafnia 2025 年第二季財務業績報告。我們很快就要開始了。今天的演講將由 Hafnia 執行長 Mikael Skov、財務長 Perry Van Echtelt、商業副總裁 Søren Winther 和執行副總裁兼投資者關係主管 Thomas Andersen 主持。演講結束後，他們將很樂意解答任何問題。（操作員指示）

During this conference call, some statements may be considered forward-looking, reflecting management's current expectations. These statements involve risks, uncertainties, and other factors, many of which are beyond Hafnia's control, that could cause actual results, performance, or plans to differ significantly from those expressed or implied. Additionally, this conference call does not constitute an offer or solicitation to buy or sell any securities.

在本次電話會議中，一些聲明可能被視為前瞻性的，反映了管理階層目前的預期。這些聲明涉及風險、不確定性和其他因素，其中許多超出了 Hafnia 的控制範圍，可能導致實際結果、表現或計劃與明示或暗示的結果、表現或計劃之間存在重大差異。此外，本次電話會議不構成購買或出售任何證券的要約或邀請。

With that, I'm pleased to turn the call over to Hafnia's CEO, Mikael Skov.

我很高興將電話轉給 Hafnia 的執行長 Mikael Skov。

Thank you, and hello, everyone, and thank you for joining Hafnia's second-quarter 2025 earnings call. My name is Mikael Skov, CEO of Hafnia. And with me today are our CFO, Perry Van Echtelt; our VP of Commercial, Søren Winther; and our EVP and Head of Investor Relations, Thomas Andersen.

謝謝大家，大家好，謝謝大家參加 Hafnia 2025 年第二季財報電話會議。我叫米凱爾‧斯科夫 (Mikael Skov)，Hafnia 的執行長。今天與我一起出席的還有我們的財務長 Perry Van Echtelt、我們的商業副總裁 Søren Winther 以及我們的執行副總裁兼投資者關係主管 Thomas Andersen。

We have earlier today issued our second-quarter earnings, which are now available on our website. Over the course of the call, we will take you through Hafnia's second-quarter performance and provide an update of the current market outlook. We will also share our recent financial developments and conclude with an update on our sustainability initiatives.

我們今天早些時候發布了第二季度收益，現在可以在我們的網站上查看。在通話過程中，我們將向您介紹 Hafnia 的第二季業績並提供當前市場前景的最新資訊。我們也將分享我們最近的財務發展情況，並最後介紹我們的永續發展計畫的最新進展。

Let's move to the next slide, which is slide number 2. Before proceeding, I would like to go through our Safe Harbor statement. The information discussed on this call is based on information we have today, which may include forward-looking statements that involve risks and uncertainties. Actual results may differ materially from these statements. This call does not constitute an offer to buy or sell securities. Thank you for your attention, and let's begin with a look at our results for the quarter.

讓我們轉到下一張投影片，即投影片 2。在繼續之前，我想先了解我們的安全港聲明。本次電話會議討論的資訊是基於我們今天掌握的信息，其中可能包括涉及風險和不確定性的前瞻性陳述。實際結果可能與這些陳述有重大差異。本次電話會議並不構成購買或出售證券的要約。感謝您的關注，讓我們先來看看本季的業績。

Going to slide number 4, the second quarter has experienced an improvement in trade volume and ton-miles, driven by strong underlying demand and improved refinery margins. This has supported the spot market, and I'm pleased to announce another quarter of strong results for Hafnia.

轉到幻燈片 4，受強勁的潛在需求和煉油廠利潤率提高的推動，第二季度貿易量和噸英里數有所改善。這對現貨市場起到了支撐作用，我很高興地宣布 Hafnia 又一個季度取得了強勁的業績。

For the second quarter, we achieved $134.2 million in adjusted EBITDA and generated a net profit of $75.3 million, reflecting the strength of our operational execution and underlying market. Our performance was further supported by our adjacent fee-generating business, including our Commercial Pool and Bunkering operations, which together contributed $7.9 million to our overall results.

第二季度，我們的調整後 EBITDA 達到 1.342 億美元，淨利潤達到 7,530 萬美元，反映了我們營運執行和基礎市場的強勁表現。我們的業績得到了相鄰收費業務的進一步支持，包括我們的商業聯營和加油業務，這些業務為我們的整體業績貢獻了 790 萬美元。

Seascale Energy, our bunker joint venture with Cargill, commenced operations in mid-May. On the fleet development side, our dual-fuel methanol MR IMO II newbuild program, in partnership with Socatra, has proceeded as planned. In May, we took delivery of the Ecomar Guyenne, the second vessel in the fleet; and in July, the Ecomar Garonne, the third vessel in the joint venture.

我們與嘉吉公司合資成立的燃料油合資企業 Seascale Energy 於 5 月中旬開始營運。在船隊發展方面，我們與 Socatra 合作的雙燃料甲醇 MR IMO II 新建項目正在按計劃進行。5 月份，我們接收了該船隊的第二艘船「Ecomar Guyenne」號；7 月份，我們接收了該合資船隊的第三艘船「Ecomar Garonne」號。

Moving to slide number 5, next, I would like to highlight Hafnia's key investment attributes. Hafnia is a global leader in the product and chemical tanker market, operating one of the largest and most diversified fleets in the industry. We own and have chartered in a total of 126 vessels, with a lower-than-industry average age of 9.4 years.

接下來轉到投影片 5，我想重點介紹 Hafnia 的主要投資屬性。Hafnia 是產品和化學品油輪市場的全球領導者，經營著業內最大、最多樣化的船隊之一。我們擁有和租賃的船舶總數為 126 艘，船齡低於業界平均 9.4 年。

At the end of the second quarter, our net asset value stood at approximately $3.3 billion, equating to an NAV of USD6.55 or NOK66.07 per share. We operate our own in-house technical management and global commercial platform, with chartering teams across Asia, Europe, the Middle East, and the USA. Our technical team upholds the highest safety and environmental standards, while our chartering team manages approximately 80 third-party vessels across our 8 different pools.

截至第二季末，我們的淨資產價值約為 33 億美元，相當於每股 6.55 美元或 66.07 挪威克朗。我們經營自己的內部技術管理和全球商業平台，在亞洲、歐洲、中東和美國設有租船團隊。我們的技術團隊秉承最高的安全和環境標準，而我們的租船團隊管理著我們 8 個不同池中的大約 80 艘第三方船隻。

At Hafnia, we take a proactive approach to market evaluation, continuously seeking opportunities as part of our active management strategy. Our diversified business model, including the pool platform and Seascale Energy, our Bunkering Procurement platform, complements operations and provide steady, reliable revenue.

在 Hafnia，我們採取積極主動的方式進行市場評估，不斷尋找機會作為我們積極管理策略的一部分。我們的多元化業務模式，包括聯營平台和 Seascale Energy、我們的燃料採購平台，補充了營運並提供穩定、可靠的收入。

Finally, Hafnia maintains a transparent and consistent dividend policy, having paid consistent dividends across the past years. For the full-year 2024, we paid out 82.8% of net profit through dividends and share buybacks, with total dividends in 2024 reaching $1.16 per share.

最後，Hafnia 保持透明且一致的股息政策，過去幾年一直支付穩定的股息。2024年全年，我們透過股利和股票回購支付了82.8%的淨利潤，2024年的總股息達到每股1.16美元。

Let's move on to the next slide, which is slide number 6. At the end of the second quarter, our net LTV ratio remained unchanged from the first quarter at 24.1%, reflecting a balance of both a decrease in vessel market values and a further debt reduction.

讓我們繼續看下一張投影片，即第 6 張投影片。截至第二季末，我們的淨 LTV 比率與第一季持平，為 24.1%，這反映了船舶市場價值下降和債務進一步減少的平衡。

In line with our dividend policy, we declared a payout ratio of 80% for the quarter. This equates to a total cash dividend of $60.3 million or $0.1210 per share. For shareholders receiving dividends in Norwegian kroner, the exchange rate will be based on the value date which is two business days before the payment date. This marks 14 consecutive quarters of dividends, underlying consistent shareholder returns and a commitment to delivering long-term value.

根據我們的股利政策，我們宣布本季的股利支付率為 80%。這相當於總現金股利為 6,030 萬美元或每股 0.1210 美元。對於以挪威克朗收取股利的股東，匯率將基於支付日之前兩個工作天的價值日。這標誌著公司已連續 14 個季度派發股息，為股東帶來持續回報，並致力於實現長期價值。

Søren Winther, our VP in Commercial, will now be sharing the industry review and market outlook.

我們的商業副總裁 Søren Winther 現在將分享產業回顧和市場展望。

Thanks, Mikael. Let me start with an update on the current market conditions in the Product Tanker and Clean Product segments, where Hafnia primarily operates; and then share our outlook for the months ahead.

謝謝，米凱爾。首先，我來介紹一下 Hafnia 主要營運的成品油輪和清潔產品輪領域的當前市場狀況；然後分享我們對未來幾個月的展望。

Looking at Clean Products on water, we see volumes in 2025 sitting above the last four-year average, supporting the year-to-date market resilience. Q3 represents an uncommon seasonal rise in Clean Products on water and volumes loaded. Despite about 140 additional Product Tankers being sanctioned this year, Clean Product volumes transported on sanctioned vessels have decreased by 17%.

從水上清潔產品來看，我們預計 2025 年的銷售量將高於過去四年的平均水平，從而支撐年初至今的市場彈性。Q3 代表水上清潔產品和裝載量的不尋常季節性成長。儘管今年有大約 140 艘成品油輪獲得制裁，但受制裁船隻運輸的清潔產品量卻下降了 17%。

On the right, we zoom in on the unseasonal change in Clean Product volumes. Q2 to Q3 volumes on water this year exceeded average movements observed in prior years by over 30%, underlining the fundamental strength of current achievable earnings for the quarter.

在右側，我們放大了清潔產品產量的非季節性變化。今年第二季至第三季的水上運輸量比前幾年的平均運輸量高出 30% 以上，凸顯了本季目前可實現盈利的基本實力。

Moving on to slide 9, improvement in demand fundamentals is further illustrated here. Looking at the year-on-year ton-mile comparison for Clean Products in July, we can see a clear trend of continuous growth since 2020. This is further supported by cargo volumes loaded reaching their highest levels in the past eight years, reinforcing the view that oil demand remains resilient with limited signs of downside risk in the medium term.

轉到投影片 9，這裡進一步說明了需求基本面的改善。從7月清潔產品噸英里同比變化來看，我們可以看到自2020年以來持續成長的明顯趨勢。貨運量達到過去八年來的最高水平，進一步證實了石油需求仍具有韌性、中期內下行風險跡像有限的觀點。

On the other hand, Dirty Petroleum cargo volumes and ton-miles have been on a decline since 2023, reflecting weaker fundamentals compared to Clean Products. However, the recent OPEC+ decision to boost production in September is expected to support crude tanker rates in the short term and also benefit the Product Tanker market through higher refinery throughput and exports.

另一方面，自 2023 年以來，髒石油貨運量和噸英里數一直在下降，反映出與清潔產品相比基本面較弱。然而，OPEC+最近決定在9月份提高產量，預計將在短期內支撐原油油輪運價，並透過提高煉油廠吞吐量和出口量使成品油油輪市場受益。

Moving on to slide 10, we have seen a strong recovery in accumulated ton-days for the Clean segment since the end of 2024, significantly surpassing the three-year average by Q3. This has also led to a recovery in earnings in early 2025. In Q2, earnings reached the lowest levels of 2025, mainly due to the Western Hemisphere drawing down on accumulated inventory overhang.

轉到第 10 張投影片，我們看到自 2024 年底以來清潔能源領域的累計噸天數強勁復甦，到第三季已大大超過三年平均水準。這也導致了2025年初收益的復甦。第二季度，收益達到 2025 年的最低水平，主要原因是西半球的累積庫存過剩。

In Q3, earnings and ton-days have shown a strong countercyclical recovery, driven by tight European gasoline and distillate supply, as a result of continued refinery closures and an August incident in the Nigerian Dangote refinery, resulting in a 15- to 20-day production stop, forcing a demand in Nigeria for European gasoline, which further tightens the product's base in the Atlantic basin.

第三季度，收益和噸天數呈現強勁的逆週期復甦，受歐洲汽油和餾分油供應緊張的推動，由於煉油廠持續關閉以及尼日利亞丹格特煉油廠8月份發生事故，導致生產停頓15至20天，迫使尼日利亞對歐洲汽油產生需求，這進一步收緊了該產品在大西洋盆地的基礎。

These factors drive ton-mile increases and strong trading margins from the US and the Eastern basin for Q3 to date. The graph on the right provides further evidence that distillate flows East to West were countercyclical high for the month of July and expected to stay strong for August and September, benefiting from high trading margins between the regions.

這些因素推動了第三季迄今為止美國和東部盆地的噸英里數增加和貿易利潤強勁。右側的圖表進一步證明，7 月從東向西的餾分油流量處於逆週期高位，預計 8 月和 9 月將保持強勁，受益於各地區之間的高貿易利潤率。

Moving on to slide 11, the increased Western product demand for Q3 is reinforced by two main factors and is expected to carry into Q4. Firstly, global refinery margins remained strong, with the three-month forward curve staying healthy.

轉到第 11 張投影片，第三季西方產品需求的成長受到兩個主要因素的推動，預計將延續到第四季。首先，全球煉油利潤率維持強勁，三個月遠期曲線維持健康。

Secondly, global refinery outage for the remainder of the year appear very limited and are projected to reach a three-year low. This will support higher volumes and longer-haul trading, with average voyage length and ton-days to potentially improve further.

其次，今年剩餘時間內全球煉油廠停產情況似乎非常有限，預計將達到三年來的最低水準。這將支持更高的運輸量和更長距離的貿易，平均航程和噸天數可能會進一步提高。

The combination of lower-than-usual turnarounds in the Eastern Hemisphere and refinery closures in the Western Hemisphere, plus planned maintenance of the Nigerian Dangote refinery in Q4, forms the foundation for further ton-mile improvement towards the end of the year.

東半球的周轉率低於正常水平，西半球的煉油廠關閉，再加上尼日利亞丹格特煉油廠計劃在第四季度進行維護，為年底噸英里數的進一步提高奠定了基礎。

Moving on to slide 12, inventory levels is a fundamental driver of the Product Tanker market. Data for both Dirty and Clean trades point to significant draws in 2025. These low inventory levels will help amplify the impact of strong refinery margins and low outages, reinforcing the market effects highlighted on the previous slides to replenish inventories.

轉到投影片 12，庫存水準是成品油輪市場的基本驅動力。骯髒貿易和清潔貿易的數據都顯示 2025 年會大幅下降。這些低庫存水準將有助於放大強勁的煉油利潤和低停產的影響，強化前面投影片中強調的補充庫存的市場效應。

Moving on to slide 13, crude tanker cannibalization has been a key topic at the end of 2024. This has gradually returned in 2025 with its largest impact in February, June, and July of this year. However, the key driver of this has shifted, with 2024 primarily being from large tankers cleaning up and repositioning west of Suez, where 2025's cannibalization largely originates from newbuild tonnage.

轉到第 13 張投影片，原油油輪拆解已成為 2024 年底的關鍵議題。2025 年，這種現象逐漸重現，今年 2 月、6 月和 7 月的影響最大。然而，這一現象的主要驅動因素已經發生了變化，2024 年主要來自蘇伊士運河以西的大型油輪清理和重新定位，而 2025 年的拆解主要來自新建噸位。

We expect the cannibalization for the remainder of the year to be minimal, with limited newbuild deliveries expected and also keeping in mind that Q4 deliveries could likely defer to achieve a 2026 nameplate.

我們預計今年剩餘時間的拆解情況將很小，預計新船交付量有限，同時考慮到第四季度的交付量可能會推遲到 2026 年。

The year-to-date impact on tanker supply has also been minimal. Despite a sizable number of newbuild deliveries, the net additional competing deadweight in 2025 remains limited, at only 0.3% for the Clean trade and 1.2% for the Dirty trade.

今年迄今對油輪供應的影響也很小。儘管新船交付數量可觀，但 2025 年新增競爭載重量仍有限，清潔燃料貿易僅 0.3%，重油貿易僅 1.2%。

This is mainly being offset by vessels turning 20 years of age as well as increasing number of sanctioned tonnage, reducing effective supply. Importantly, 28 out of 37 newbuild LR2s have shifted into the Aframax trade, further tightening supply within Clean Product Tanker markets.

這主要被船齡達到 20 年的船舶以及核准噸位的增加所抵消，從而減少了有效供應。重要的是，37 艘新建 LR2 型油輪中，有 28 艘已轉入阿芙拉型油輪貿易，進一步收緊了成品油輪市場的供應。

Slide 14. The supply outlook remains positive. From 2025 to 2028, we expect about 114 million deadweight worth of newbuild tankers across Handies to VLCCs. Over the same period, potential scrapping could reach 167 million deadweight based on typical scrapping ages of 23 years for larger segments and 25 years for MRs and Handies.

幻燈片 14。供應前景依然樂觀。從 2025 年到 2028 年，我們預計新建油輪（從靈便型油輪到巨型油輪）的總載重量將達到約 1.14 億載重量。在同一時期，根據大型船舶的典型報廢年限為 23 年、MR 型和 Handies 型船舶的典型報廢年限為 25 年計算，潛在報廢船舶數量可能達到 1.67 億載重噸。

Beyond that, another 87 million deadweight tons could leave the market between 2029 and 3031. It's also worth noting that we did not account for any differences in utilization between newbuilds and older vessels.

除此之外，2029年至2031年間，另有8,700萬載重噸的船舶可能退出市場。另外值得注意的是，我們沒有考慮新建船舶和舊船之間的使用率差異。

Slide 15. Sanctioned vessels continue to have a large impact on the fleet supply. The UK, UN, and OFAC sanctioned another 409 tankers during 2025, bringing the total to around 800 tankers trading outside normal market competition rules.

幻燈片 15。受制裁的船隻繼續對船隊供應產生重大影響。2025 年，英國、聯合國和 OFAC 又制裁了 409 艘油輪，使違反正常市場競爭規則的油輪總數達到約 800 艘。

We estimate approximately that another 335 vessels have engaged in sanctioned trade regions, sailing -- signaling the potential for additional sanctioning. The dark fleet is identified as tonnage with questionable ownership and predominantly older age profile, while the gray fleet is associated with reputable ownership.

我們估計，另有約 335 艘船已在受制裁的貿易區域航行——這表明可能會受到進一步製裁。暗色船隊是指所有權存疑且船齡較長的船舶，而灰色船隊則是指所有者信譽良好的船舶。

Now Perry, our CFO, will bring you through the financial development. Over to you, Perry.

現在，我們的財務長佩里將帶您了解財務發展。交給你了，佩里。

Thanks, Søren, and good morning and afternoon, everyone. Hafnia posted another strong financial performance in the second quarter, driven by an improving spot market and a disciplined operating platform.

謝謝，Søren，大家早安，下午好。受現貨市場好轉和營運平台規範化的推動，Hafnia 在第二季度再次取得了強勁的財務業績。

For the second quarter, we posted an adjusted EBITDA of $134.2 million, resulting into a net profit of $75.3 million or $0.15 per share. Our Commercial Pool Management and Bunkering businesses contributed $7.9 million in operating income.

第二季度，我們公佈的調整後 EBITDA 為 1.342 億美元，淨利潤為 7,530 萬美元，即每股 0.15 美元。我們的商業泳池管理和加油業務貢獻了 790 萬美元的營業收入。

And with the launch of Seascale Energy in mid-May, our Bunker Procurement business has been transferred to the joint venture and will now be accounted for using the equity method moving forward in the coming quarters.

隨著 5 月中旬 Seascale Energy 的成立，我們的燃料採購業務已轉移到合資企業，並將在未來幾季採用權益法核算。

We continued to deliver strong returns, with a 13.2% return on equity and a 10.6% return on invested capital this quarter. On the balance sheet, net LTV stayed unchanged at 24.1% compared to the last quarter, as further debt reduction balanced out a decrease in vessel values.

我們持續實現強勁回報，本季股本回報率為 13.2%，投資資本回報率為 10.6%。在資產負債表上，淨 LTV 與上一季相比保持不變，為 24.1%，因為進一步的債務減少抵消了船舶價值的下降。

The chart on the top-right displays our liquidity profile. We have access to over $450 million in liquidity at the end of Q2. This includes $194 million in cash and around $260 million in drawdown capacity under our credit facilities.

右上角的圖表顯示了我們的流動性狀況。截至第二季末，我們擁有超過 4.5 億美元的流動資金。其中包括 1.94 億美元現金和約 2.6 億美元的信貸額度提取能力。

Additionally, early July, we secured a $715 million revolving credit facility, which I will discuss shortly. We also remain well protected against interest rate volatility. At the end of Q2, 55% of our interest rate exposure was hedged at a weighted average base rate of 1.95%.

此外，7月初，我們獲得了7.15億美元的循環信貸額度，我很快就會討論這一點。我們也很好地抵禦了利率波動。截至第二季末，我們 55% 的利率風險敞口已以 1.95% 的加權平均基準利率進行對沖。

If we then move on to the operating summary, you'll see we continue to produce strong operating cash flows, thanks to our solid balance sheet and low breakeven levels. For the quarter, we earned a TCE income of $231.2 million, averaging $24,452 per day across our vessel segments.

如果我們繼續查看營運摘要，您會看到，得益於穩健的資產負債表和較低的損益平衡水平，我們繼續產生強勁的營運現金流。本季度，我們的船舶部門的 TCE 收入為 2.312 億美元，平均每天 24,452 美元。

Then with many of our own vessels built in the years of 2015 and 2016, several will undergo their second drydock this year and next. As a result, our Q2 results were affected by numerous vessels being in drydock or undergoing repairs, leading to about 630 offhire days during the quarter. We expect fewer drydockings and repairs in Q3, resulting in roughly 510 offhire days. And starting from the last quarter, we anticipate our drydocking schedule to ease and offhire days to decrease.

我們自己的許多船隻都是在 2015 年和 2016 年建造的，其中幾艘將於今年和明年進行第二次乾船塢維修。因此，我們的第二季業績受到大量船舶進塢或進行維修的影響，導致本季停租天數約為 630 天。我們預計第三季的乾船塢和維修數量將減少，導致停租天數約為 510 天。從上個季度開始，我們預計乾船塢計畫將會放鬆，停租天數將會減少。

If we move to the next page, our deleveraging efforts over the past two years have enabled us to significantly reduce our net debt to the tune of $500 million, compared to the same period in 2023. While current market conditions led to an approximately 5% decline in vessel values quarter on quarter, we maintained our net LTV at 24.1%, supported by a reduction in our net debt.

如果我們翻到下一頁，我們過去兩年的去槓桿努力使我們能夠大幅減少淨債務，與 2023 年同期相比減少了 5 億美元。儘管當前的市場狀況導致船舶價值環比下降約 5%，但由於淨債務減少，我們的淨 LTV 仍維持在 24.1%。

In July, we concluded a new $715 million amortizing revolving credit facility with a syndicate of 11 banks. This facility has a very competitive margin, a tenor of seven years, and an age-adjusted amortization profile of 20 years. It also includes an uncommitted accordion tranche of up to $417 million exercisable within two years.

7 月份，我們與 11 家銀行組成的財團達成了一項新的 7.15 億美元攤銷循環信貸協議。該貸款的利潤率非常有競爭力，期限為七年，按年齡調整後的攤銷期為 20 年。它還包括一筆高達 4.17 億美元的未承諾手風琴部分，可在兩年內行使。

Since the closing of that facility, we've drawn approximately $290 million under this RCF to refinance existing debt that this facility is replacing. And Hafnia currently maintains around $600 million in undrawn capacity with a highly competitive margin and, as I said, a very attractive structure. This facility not only reduces our overall funding costs, but also lowers our cash flow breakeven levels and further strengthening our balance sheet resilience.

自該貸款關閉以來，我們已根據該循環信貸基金提取了約 2.9 億美元，用於為該貸款所取代的現有債務進行再融資。目前，Hafnia 擁有約 6 億美元的未動用產能，利潤率極具競爭力，而且正如我所說，其結構非常有吸引力。該工具不僅降低了我們的整體融資成本，還降低了我們的現金流量損益平衡水平，進一步增強了我們的資產負債表彈性。

And if we move on to the next page, as demonstrated here on this slide, our earnings have strengthened quarter on quarter, positioning us for a robust performance in 2025. As of August 15, we had secured 75% of the earning days for the third quarter at an average rate of $25,395 per day across the segments.

如果我們翻到下一頁，正如這張投影片所示，我們的收益逐季增強，為我們在 2025 年取得強勁表現奠定了基礎。截至 8 月 15 日，我們已確保第三季 75% 的獲利天數，各部門平均獲利率為每天 25,395 美元。

For the remainder of the year, 48% of earning days are covered at an average rate of $23,623 per day. And if we look at the scenarios for covered rates and analyst consensus, they indicate robust net profits in the range of $305 million to $310 million for the full year.

就全年剩餘時間而言，48% 的收入天數都已覆蓋，平均每天收入為 23,623 美元。如果我們看一下覆蓋率和分析師共識的情況，他們表明全年淨利潤將在 3.05 億美元至 3.1 億美元之間。

And, Mikael, over to you for the next few slides.

Mikael，接下來的幾張投影片就交給你了。

Thank you for this. We now go to slide number 22. And let me now turn to Hafnia's sustainability strategy and goals. As a leading company in our industry, we understand the responsibility we have in building a more sustainable maritime future.

謝謝你。我們現在看第 22 張投影片。現在讓我來談談 Hafnia 的永續發展策略和目標。作為行業領先公司，我們深知在建立更永續的航運未來方面所肩負的責任。

We set high standards and work to meet them, aiming to make a positive difference for communities and stakeholders. We're also consistently collaborating with industry partners and international organizations to develop long-term solutions for the challenges shipping faces. This keeps us at the forefront of change, ensuring Hafnia actively participates in this transition.

我們設定高標準並努力實現這些標準，旨在為社區和利害關係人帶來積極的變化。我們也一直與產業合作夥伴和國際組織合作，為航運面臨的挑戰制定長期解決方案。這使我們始終處於變革的前沿，確保 Hafnia 積極參與這一轉變。

Going to slide number 23, here, we showcase some of the strategic initiatives we have been working on. Take Seascale Energy, for example. It has recently started operations and aim to provide more reliable, efficient, and sustainable solutions for customers worldwide. Through smart investments and strong partnerships, Hafnia is positioning itself at the forefront of maritime innovation.

轉到第 23 張投影片，這裡我們展示了我們一直在努力的一些策略舉措。以 Seascale Energy 為例。該公司最近開始運營，旨在為全球客戶提供更可靠、更有效率、更永續的解決方案。透過明智的投資和強大的合作夥伴關係，Hafnia 將自己定位於海事創新的前沿。

Slide 24. Looking ahead to the rest of the year, Hafnia remains strong. The positive momentum from the first quarter continued into the second and third quarters, driven by growth in trade volumes and ton-miles. We achieved solid earnings while keeping our 80% dividend payout ratio.

幻燈片 24。展望今年剩餘時間，Hafnia 依然保持強勁勢頭。在貿易量和噸英里數成長的推動下，第一季的積極動能延續到了第二季和第三季。我們在保持 80% 股息支付率的同時實現了穩健的盈利。

Market fundamentals remain robust with limited fleet supply and improved spot rates. Our proven operational excellence, along with recent refinancing, boost both our resilience to market changes and our ability to pursue new opportunities.

由於船隊供應有限且現貨價格上漲，市場基本面依然強勁。我們久經考驗的卓越營運以及最近的再融資增強了我們應對市場變化的能力和尋求新機會的能力。

This concludes our presentation. With that, I would now like to open the call for questions.

我們的演講到此結束。現在，我想開始提問。

(Operator Instructions) Frode.

（操作員指令）Frode。

Yes. Thank you. Hi, guys. Yeah, first off, congrats on the good trading performance and Q3 guidance. My first question is on the refinancing you announced.

是的。謝謝。嗨，大家好。是的，首先，恭喜您取得良好的交易業績和第三季業績指引。我的第一個問題是關於您宣布的再融資。

I assume that you'll draw that fully and refinance the existing debt. Can you, perhaps, quantify the improvement to cash breakeven rates and how that will be after you have refinanced?

我認為你會充分利用這筆錢並為現有債務進行再融資。您能否量化現金損益平衡率的改善情況以及在您再融資之後情況會如何？

Yeah, sure. Sorry for that -- to look for the unmute button. Thanks for that question. Yes. So we're very happy with that refinancing. First of all, it brings down our funding costs further. I think on the element that we have refinanced now, you would see a margin improvement of 50 to 60 basis points overall.

是的，當然。抱歉，請尋找取消靜音按鈕。謝謝你的提問。是的。因此我們對這次再融資感到非常滿意。首先，它進一步降低了我們的融資成本。我認為，就我們現在再融資的情況而言，你會看到利潤率整體提高 50 到 60 個基點。

The structure in itself also gives a longer profile and more flexibility in terms of paying down. Looking towards our cash flow breakeven, I think that would go towards roughly $13,000 if the whole refinancing takes into effect later on in the year.

這種結構本身也提供了更長的期限和更靈活的還款方式。展望我們的現金流量損益平衡，我認為如果整個再融資在今年稍後生效，那麼損益平衡點將達到約 13,000 美元。

Okay. So that's roughly $1,000 improvement or something like that?

好的。那麼這大約是 1,000 美元的改進或類似的數字？

Yeah, depending on whether you're looking at averages or quarter on quarter.

是的，這取決於您查看的是平均值還是季度環比數據。

Okay. So 50, 60 basis points, that's -- I guess, that's a positive effect on EPS and, therefore, dividend capacity. And then, of course, there's a longer amortization profile, it sounds like, right, as well?

好的。所以 50、60 個基點，我想，這對每股盈餘有正面影響，因此對股息能力也有正面影響。當然，還有一個更長的攤銷期限，聽起來也是對的，對吧？

Yes. But -- yes, exactly.

是的。但是——是的，確實如此。

Okay. Thanks. I had a question on the market, I guess. I think on slide 9, you showed July ton-mile figures. So seaborne trade appeared to be up quite healthy, like 4% year on year. And then ton-miles were up like 1%.

好的。謝謝。我想，我對市場有個疑問。我認為在第 9 張投影片上，您展示了 7 月的噸英里數據。因此，海運貿易似乎成長相當健康，年增 4%。然後噸英里數增加了約 1%。

So that indicates that the average miles were still down year on year in July. But then you said you expected the long-haul movements on LR2s to improve going into Q4. Maybe you can elaborate on that, please?

這表明 7 月份平均里程數同比仍有所下降。但隨後您表示，預計進入第四季度，LR2 型油輪的長途運輸情況將會改善。也許您可以詳細說明一下，好嗎？

Yeah. Hi, Frode. Søren here. I think we -- on a general note, we have seen an improvement in ton-mile over years over years. What we are alluding to on the improving ton-mile right now is more related to here and now factors.

是的。你好，Frode。這裡是 Søren。我認為，總體而言，我們已經看到噸英里數逐年提高。我們現在提到的噸英里數的提高與當前因素有關。

The fact that Europe has drawn quite heavily on inventories in Q2, and Prax and Immingham going Chapter 11 together with a few other planned refinery shutdowns or stops, in reality, causes Europe to draw really tight on middle distillate and following that on gasoline, more because there was a refinery outage in Dangote, Nigeria, which has called upon European gasoline products to service demand in principle, which basically drives an East to West [up] that has been present but not at the volumes that you have seen to the latter part of Q2 and weigh into Q3 now.

事實上，歐洲在第二季已經嚴重依賴庫存，而 Prax 和 Immingham進入破產保護程序，加上其他一些計劃中的煉油廠關閉或停工，實際上導致歐洲對中間餾分油的需求非常緊張，隨後汽油的需求也隨之緊張，這主要是因為尼日利亞丹格特的煉油廠發生中斷，這要求歐洲汽油產品原則上滿足需求，這基本上推動了東的油價上漲，雖然這種上漲一直存在，但幅度不及第二季度後半段所持續到第一半。

And that drives a significant amount of ton-mile on a general note. China has had to step in on some product supply as well, which is obviously even longer ton-miles. So the comment originates from there and really drives the abnormality that you're seeing in Q3 now.

總體而言，這將帶來大量的噸英里數。中國也必須介入一些產品供應，這顯然需要更長的噸英里數。因此，該評論源自於那裡，並真正導致了您現在在第三季度看到的異常現象。

You would typically see a pretty steep draw in ton-miles and also volumes of cargo and water, which you are not seeing in, brackets, freak year like this and achievable earnings now that is superseding many other quarters of Q3 over years.

通常情況下，您會看到噸英里數以及貨物和水量出現相當大幅度的下降，這是您在像這樣的反常年份中看不到的，而且現在可實現的收益超過了多年來第三季度的許多其他季度。

Did that answer your question?

這回答了你的問題嗎？

Yes. Perfect. Thank you.

是的。完美的。謝謝。

Omar Nokta.

奧馬爾·諾克塔。

Yes. Thank you. Hi, guys. Thanks for the update. Yes, just maybe a follow-up question perhaps to Frode's on the market. As we've been looking at the spot market and your bookings so far here in the third quarter, there seems to be a noticeable shift where it's the MRs and the Handies that are driving higher. And they're outpacing the LRs.

是的。謝謝。嗨，大家好。感謝您的更新。是的，也許這只是對 Frode 市場狀況的一個後續問題。當我們關注現貨市場和第三季迄今為止的預訂情況時，似乎出現了明顯的轉變，其中 MR 型船和 Handies 型船的價格正在上漲。而且它們的速度超過了 LR。

Are you maybe able to explain what's driving that -- maybe that divergence where it's the smaller ships that are really improving and it's the LRs that have been somewhat stagnant? Is that normal? Or what could you say is really behind the shift in vessel classes?

您能否解釋一下造成這種現象的原因——也許是小型船舶確實在不斷改進，而遠程船舶卻停滯不前？這樣正常嗎？或者您能說一下船舶等級變化的真正原因是什麼嗎？

Yeah. Hi, Omar. Søren here again. I actually think I'll turn the question a little bit around. The fact is that the LR1s and the LR2s, in particular, have been very resilient through Q2 and have produced quite significant numbers and significantly above the MRs.

是的。你好，奧馬爾。Søren 又來了。我實際上認為我應該稍微轉變一下這個問題。事實是，LR1 和 LR2 在第二季度表現得非常有彈性，並且產生了相當可觀的數字，並且明顯高於 MR。

So if it looks on paper like the MRs have improved and the others have not, the chosen ones have remained on very high levels in the -- above 30% for the LR1s and in the very high 30s for the LR2s. So it's merely the MRs catching up rather than the 2s and the 1s getting more wind in the sales, if you like.

因此，如果從紙面上看，MR 型有所改進，而其他型沒有改進，那麼選定的型仍保持在非常高的水平——LR1 型保持在 30% 以上，LR2 型保持在 30% 左右。因此，如果你願意的話，這只是 MR 的追趕，而不是 2 和 1 在銷售上獲得更多風頭。

Okay. Thank you. So it's -- yeah, MR is just sort of playing catch-up. And then maybe just a follow-up, and I know you probably answered this several times in the past. But you were just discussing earlier in the presentation the cannibalization and whatnot. Have you -- does Hafnia -- as a platform, do you sort of reverse-cannibalize if the opportunities make sense to go into the Dirty trade? Or does that maybe disrupt too much the Clean trading platform?

好的。謝謝。所以 — — 是的，MR 只是在追趕。然後也許只是一個後續問題，我知道你過去可能已經回答過這個問題好幾次了。但是您在演講的早些時候就討論了蠶食等等問題。作為一個平台，Hafnia 是否會在有機會進入 Dirty 交易時進行反向蠶食？或者這會對 Clean 交易平台造成太大干擾？

No. In principle, not. You can say that where the value is and where you can do some swapping is between -- for the LR1 segment is into the Panamaxes. But keeping in mind that the Panamax segment is somewhere between 90 and 100 ships only and a very confined trade.

不。原則上不是。您可以說價值所在以及您可以進行一些交換的地方是 - LR1 部分是進入巴拿馬型船。但請記住，巴拿馬型船的數量只有 90 到 100 艘，而且貿易範圍非常有限。

You've got to be very careful in how many ships you move into that sort of segment before you kill yourself sort of thing. On the LR2s, it's much more evident to switch between Aframax and Clean trade. And there's actually opportunities to go Dirty and then Clean up again if you had the right swing. So that we will look at.

你必須非常小心地決定將多少艘船移入這種航段，以免發生自取滅亡之類的事情。在 LR2 上，在阿芙拉型油輪和清潔貿易之間切換更加明顯。如果你揮桿正確，實際上就有機會先弄髒球然後再清理乾淨。以便我們看一下。

Obviously, we are not players on the Suezmax-VLCC game, and you can't really cannibalize that. It's really the bigger ships. We do have some Dirty presence both in the Panamax segment and also on the MR side. But again, Dirty MR is also, in the Eastern Hemisphere at least, very confined and limited to about 45, 50 ships. So you got to be careful a little bit how you cannibalize your own market if you go that way around before you sort of kill your own earnings.

顯然，我們不是蘇伊士型油輪-超大型油輪遊戲的參與者，你無法真正蠶食它。確實是更大的船。我們在巴拿馬型船和 MR 型船領域確實有一些 Dirty 的存在。但同樣，至少在東半球，Dirty MR 也受到很大限制，僅限於約 45 至 50 艘船。因此，如果你選擇這種方式，你必須要小心，不要蠶食自己的市場，以免損害自己的利益。

Okay, thank you. Appreciate the call, Søren. I'll turn it over.

好的，謝謝。感謝您的來電，Søren。我把它翻過來。

Yeah, no worries. Thank you.

是的，不用擔心。謝謝。

Petter Haugen.

彼得·豪根。

Thank you so much, and good afternoon to the team here. A quick question on the sanctions. My impression is that the OFAC sanctions are sort of harder to work around and more effectful than UK, EU sanctioning. Is that correct? And to what extent would you say that sanctions now on the margin is having a real impact in terms of removing tonnage from the markets?

非常感謝，祝這裡的團隊下午好。關於制裁的一個簡短問題。我的印像是，OFAC 制裁比英國和歐盟的製裁更難規避，但效果也更好。對嗎？您認為目前的邊緣制裁在多大程度上對減少市場上的船舶噸位產生了實際影響？

Hi, Petter. Søren here again. You can say that the OFAC sanctions is probably the ones that have existed the longest time and where you had the early Iran and Venezuela sanctions coming on. So as a market pool, it may seem like they have more effect.

你好，Petter。Søren 又來了。可以說，OFAC 制裁可能是存在時間最長的製裁，早期對伊朗和委內瑞拉的製裁就是例證。因此，作為一個市場池，它們似乎具有更大的影響力。

But actual fact is if you have a ship sanctioned by EU or by UK even, I mean, you have to be a relatively confident charter to go out or take even that sort of ship because many of the companies that we deal with will have EU and UK presence of some sort.

但實際情況是，如果你的船受到歐盟甚至英國的批准，那麼你必須相對有信心租船才能出海或租用這種船，因為我們打交道的許多公司都會在歐盟和英國有某種形式的存在。

You can say maybe the OFAC sanctions get a little bit closer to the dollar. But our experience in the market is that no matter where you are sanctioned, you're not really welcomed in the world that we are trading in at least to a large extent, for sure.

你可以說，也許 OFAC 制裁與美元的關係更加密切了。但我們在市場上的經驗是，無論你在哪裡受到製裁，你都不會在我們進行貿易的世界中真正受到歡迎，至少在很大程度上是肯定的。

You will find that if you go through ship by ship, you will find many of the OFAC-sanctioned ships be double listed in EU. And obviously, in our material, we have gone by IMO number. So there's one sanction per ship and no double-counting in that.

如果你逐一檢查船隻，你會發現許多受到 OFAC 制裁的船隻在歐盟被雙重列入名單。顯然，在我們的材料中，我們已經採用了 IMO 數字。因此，每艘船受一次製裁，不會重複計算。

Understood, yeah, and thank you for that. And I suppose the next question would be, to some extent, related because on your page number 14, you look upon the scrapping potential here. And if I understood you correctly, you have simply just used the age brackets to point to what would be sort of relevant to look at.

是的，明白了，謝謝你。我認為下一個問題在某種程度上是相關的，因為在第 14 頁上，您查看了此處的廢棄潛力。如果我理解正確的話，您只是使用年齡層來指出需要關注的相關內容。

But given the strength of the market, but also these sanctionings -- or sanctioning of -- well, in predominantly older ships, how do you think about the more realistic scrapping scenario going sort of through the next, say, 6 to 12 months?

但考慮到市場的強勁，以及這些制裁——或者說制裁對象主要是老舊船舶，您如何看待未來 6 到 12 個月內更現實的報廢情況？

Well, I think it's all interlinked somehow. I think as long as the now almost 800 sanctioned ships have a home to play in, which is outside the more -- all these adjacent trades, if you like, the Indian cabotage trade and Indonesia and other places.

嗯，我認為它們都是以某種方式相互關聯的。我認為，只要現在近 800 艘受制裁的船隻有一個可以航行的水域，這個水域就在所有這些相鄰的貿易之外，如果你願意的話，包括印度沿海貿易、印尼和其他地方。

I guess, if you remove the Russian playground for sanction tonnage now, you would have to put a lot of tonnage over 20 years into an adjacent trade that is a nongrowing trade that is sort of pretty static. And I would assume you would see accelerated scrapping.

我想，如果你現在把俄羅斯的製裁噸位撤走，那麼你將不得不在 20 年內把大量噸位投入到相鄰的貿易中，而這種貿易是一種非增長性的、相當靜態的貿易。我認為你會看到加速報廢。

And maybe I can take -- there's a question in the chat as well. The deadweight that we specify here is exactly, I should say, it's age group. And it's on average previously scrap vessels; i.e., over time, its scrap age for LR1 to VLCC is about 23 years, and it's 25 years for Handies and MRs. So it's scrap potential that we are talking about here.

也許我可以回答──聊天中也有一個問題。我應該說，我們在這裡指定的無謂負擔正是年齡層。而這些船以前都是報廢船；也就是說，隨著時間的推移，LR1 到 VLCC 的報廢年限約為 23 年，而 Handies 和 MR 的報廢年限為 25 年。所以我們在這裡談論的是廢料潛力。

To add a little bit of flavor, when you look at ships over 20 years, it's not like you're super welcome in an overall trading market on general note. There's a lot of big trading houses, including oil majors, that do not take ships over 20 years simply, which means that the utilization of the fleet goes down. And as you say, you would find a lot of tonnage over 20 years being part of the sanctioned fleet, for sure.

更有趣的是，當你觀察 20 多年的船隻時，你會發現，從整體交易市場來看，你並不會受到特別的歡迎。許多大型貿易公司，包括石油巨頭，在20年內都不會租用船舶，這意味著船隊的使用率下降。正如你所說，你肯定會發現，在過去 20 年中，有許多噸位的船隻屬於受制裁的艦隊。

Okay, thank you. I'll leave it at that. Thank you.

好的，謝謝。我就不多說了。謝謝。

Okay, thank you.

好的，謝謝。

[Clement Molans].

[克萊門特·莫蘭斯]。

Hi. Can you hear me?

你好。你聽得到我嗎？

Hi. Yes, we can hear you.

你好。是的，我們能聽到你的聲音。

[Good] questions. The US has been vocal regarding their opposition to the IMO's net-zero framework. There is a lot of uncertainty. But could you talk a bit about your expectations regarding the October meeting and whether you think the new regulation will still be approved? And if it's not, what could be the next steps regarding the potential decarbonization for shipping?

[好]問題。美國一直公開反對國際海事組織的淨零框架。存在很多不確定性。但是您能否談談您對十月份會議的期望以及您是否認為新法規仍會獲得批准？如果不是，那麼航運業脫碳的下一步是什麼？

Thank you for that question. It's Mikael here. Well, as you clearly point out, when it comes to these kind of political major decision points, there's always an element of uncertainty, I guess, overall. But I do think that from where we are sitting, we do believe that the IMO will vote this through and that it will come into effect.

謝謝你的提問。我是米凱爾。嗯，正如你明確指出的那樣，當涉及到這類政治重大決策點時，我想總體上總是存在一些不確定因素。但我確實認為，從我們現在的立場來看，我們確實相信國際海事組織將投票通過該法案並使其生效。

And when it comes to Hafnia's strategy about how we see the future decarbonization, et cetera, we are working on the assumption that IMO will vote through what has been proposed even without the US being supportive of it.

當談到哈夫尼亞關於我們如何看待未來脫碳等策略時，我們假設即使沒有美國的支持，國際海事組織也會投票通過該提議。

So that's kind of how we see it. But I guess, it's fair to say that the world we live in today is obviously influenced by a lot of geopolitical events that keeps on changing the agenda. But that's for now, at least, is our working assumption, and that's how we believe it's going to play out.

這就是我們的看法。但我想，公平地說，我們今天所處的世界顯然受到許多地緣政治事件的影響，這些事件不斷改變議程。但至少目前這是我們的工作假設，我們相信事情將會如此發展。

Makes sense. Thank you for the color. I'll turn it over. Thank you for taking my questions.

有道理。謝謝你的顏色。我把它翻過來。感謝您回答我的問題。

(technical difficulty) Okay, Gregory, maybe you would like to put your question in the chat? We're unable to hear you.

（技術難題）好的，格雷戈里，也許你想在聊天中提出你的問題？我們聽不到您的聲音。

So there is actually -- I will actually head into the chat questions for now, and I'll come back to you, Gregory. So we have one from [Tony], who asks, looking ahead, do you anticipate returning value to shareholders via dividend, share buybacks, or a combination?

所以實際上——我現在要開始討論聊天問題，然後再回來找你，格雷戈里。因此，我們請教了 [Tony] 一位朋友，他問道，展望未來，您是否預計透過股息、股票回購或兩者結合的方式為股東帶來回報？

Thank you for that question. So basically, the way that we view that part of our business is that we have a dividend policy, which has been clearly described. So that's what we are focusing on. When it comes to share buybacks, we do, of course, debate that every quarter, and we'll continue to do it.

謝謝你的提問。因此，基本上，我們看待這部分業務的方式是，我們有一個明確的股利政策。這就是我們所關注的重點。談到股票回購，我們當然每季都會討論這個問題，而且我們會繼續這樣做。

But for the time being, the dividend policy is what stands. And if there's any share buybacks, it will be in addition to the existing dividend policy. That's the way we look at it at the moment.

但就目前而言，股利政策仍維持不變。如果有任何股票回購，那將是現有股利政策的補充。這就是我們目前的看法。

Okay. Thank you, Mikael. And then leading on to the next question coming from [Hans Henrik], so also again, regarding share buybacks.

好的。謝謝你，米凱爾。然後引出 [Hans Henrik] 提出的下一個問題，同樣是關於股票回購。

So regarding the share buyback back in December, given the limited positive impact on share price, what is your position on this now? We'll refrain from further buybacks despite strong cash position? I guess, will you refrain from further -- yeah.

那麼關於去年 12 月的股票回購，鑑於對股價的正面影響有限，您現在對此持什麼態度？儘管現金狀況強勁，我們是否會避免進一步回購？我想，你會不會不再說下去——是的。

Yeah, I think that was a little bit of what I said earlier. So I said basically that the dividend policies that we are paying out of the net profit percentage, that is linked to the net LTV. And if there are any share buybacks, that would be in addition to that.

是的，我認為這與我之前所說的有些相似。所以我說基本上我們從淨利潤百分比中支付的股息政策與淨 LTV 掛鉤。如果有任何股票回購，那將是除此之外的。

Okay. Thank you. I'm actually not seeing any more questions in the chat or the Q&A. I actually do see Gregory's hand is still raised. Maybe we'll just give Gregory a couple of seconds in case he'd like to -- okay, now his hand is not raised anymore.

好的。謝謝。實際上，我在聊天或問答中沒有看到任何其他問題。我確實看到格雷戈里的手仍然舉著。也許我們應該給格雷戈里幾秒鐘的時間，以防他願意——好吧，現在他的手不再舉起來了。

Okay. So I'm not seeing anything else more. So then we have come to the end of today's presentation. Thank you, everyone, for attending Hafnia's second-quarter 2025 financial results conference call. You can find more information plus the recording of this meeting available online at www.hafnia.com.

好的。所以我沒有看到其他任何東西。今天的演講到此結束。感謝大家參加 Hafnia 2025 年第二季財務業績電話會議。您可以在 www.hafnia.com 上找到更多資訊以及本次會議的記錄。

Sorry, is there one more question? So we have another question, sorry. So coming back to the Q&A now. Would it -- so this is also from Hans Henrik -- would it not make more sense to use cash to reduce debt and increase dividends?

抱歉，還有一個問題嗎？所以我們還有另一個問題，抱歉。現在回到問答環節。這也是漢斯亨利克 (Hans Henrik) 提出的觀點，使用現金來減少債務和增加股息不是更有意義嗎？

Yeah, thanks for that. It's Perry here. I think it is, as Mikael alluded to, is that we have a very clear dividend policy. We pay out our dividends in cash. Once we see more opportunities to distribute either by buybacks or anything, that will be coming on top of that.

是的，謝謝。我是佩里。我認為，正如米凱爾所提到的那樣，我們有一個非常明確的股息政策。我們以現金支付股利。一旦我們看到更多透過回購或其他方式進行分配的機會，那將會是最重要的。

I think we're quite comfortable with the stable and high payout ratio that we have at the moment and look at it on a quarter-by-quarter basis. But otherwise, not so much to add to that for the moment.

我認為我們對目前穩定且較高的派息率感到相當滿意，並且會逐季度進行觀察。但除此之外，目前還沒有太多可以補充的內容。

Thank you, Perry. I'm going to wait a couple more seconds in case anything else is coming through in the chat or the Q&A.

謝謝你，佩里。我將再等幾秒鐘，看看聊天或問答中是否有其他消息。

But then, otherwise, we're at the end of today's presentation. And if you'd like to relisten to this presentation later, you can find it on our website in the Investor Relations section.

但除此之外，我們今天的演講已經結束了。如果您想稍後再聽此演示文稿，您可以在我們網站的「投資者關係」部分找到它。

Thank you, everyone, for attending. And thank you for the great questions, and speak next time.

謝謝大家的出席。感謝您提出的這些好問題，下次再談。