Gray Media Inc (GTN) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to the Gray Media 2024 Q4 earnings call. (Operator Instructions)

早安，女士們、先生們，歡迎參加 Gray Media 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）

And without further ado, I will now turn the program over to Chairman and CEO, Mr. Hilton Howell.

不用多說，我現在將節目交給董事長兼執行長希爾頓豪厄爾先生。

Thank you so much, operator, and good morning, everyone. As the operator mentioned, I'm Hilton Howell, the Chairman and CEO of Gray Media. Thank you all for joining fourth quarter 2024 earnings call.

非常感謝，接線員，大家早安。正如接線員所提到的，我是格雷媒體公司董事長兼執行長希爾頓·豪厄爾。感謝大家參加 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。

With me here, as usual, in Atlanta are all of our executive officers. Pat LaPlatney, our President and Co-CEO; Sandy Breland, our Chief Operating Officer. Kevin Latek, our Chief Legal and Development Officer; and Jeff Gignac, our Chief Financial Officer. As usual, we will begin with the riveting disclaimer that Kevin will provide.

像往常一樣，我們所有的執行官都和我一起在亞特蘭大。我們的總裁兼聯合執行長 Pat LaPlatney；我們的營運長 Sandy Breland。Kevin Latek，我們的首席法律與發展長；以及我們的財務長 Jeff Gignac。像往常一樣，我們將從凱文提供的令人著迷的免責聲明開始。

Thank you, Hilton. Great introduction. Good morning, everyone. Today, we filed our Form 8-K, our earnings release and an investor presentation. Later today, we will file with the SEC our Annual Report on Form 10-K. These materials are all available on our website, which is www.graymedia.com.

謝謝你，希爾頓。很棒的介紹。大家早安。今天，我們提交了 8-K 表格、收益報告和投資者介紹。今天晚些時候，我們將向美國證券交易委員會提交 10-K 表格年度報告。這些資料都可以在我們的網站 www.graymedia.com 上找到。

Included on the call may be a discussion of non-GAAP financial measures and in particular, adjusted EBITDA, leverage ratio denominator, and certain leverage ratios. These metrics are not meant to replace GAAP measurements but are provided as supplements to assist the public in its analysis and valuation of our company. Further discussions and reconciliations of the company's non-GAAP financial measures to comparable GAAP measures can be found on our website.

電話會議可能包括對非公認會計準則財務指標的討論，特別是調整後的 EBITDA、槓桿率分母和某些槓桿。這些指標並非旨在取代 GAAP 衡量標準，而是作為補充提供，以協助公眾分析和評估我們的公司。您可以在我們的網站上找到有關公司非 GAAP 財務指標與可比較 GAAP 指標的進一步討論和對帳。

All statements and comments made by management during this conference call other than statements of historical facts should be deemed forward-looking statements. These forward-looking statements are subject to a number of risks and uncertainties.

管理階層在本次電話會議中所做的所有陳述和評論（除歷史事實陳述外）應視為前瞻性陳述。這些前瞻性陳述受到許多風險和不確定性的影響。

Actual results in the future could differ from those described in the forward-looking statements as a result of various important factors that are contained in our most recent filings with the SEC. We undertake no obligation to update or revise any forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise.

由於我們最近向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中涉及各種重要因素，未來的實際結果可能與前瞻性陳述中描述的結果不同。我們不承擔更新或修改任何前瞻性陳述的義務，無論其是否出現新資訊、未來事件或其他原因。

I now turn the call to Hilton.

我現在把電話轉給希爾頓。

Thank you, Kevin. You do that particularly well. Good morning again, everyone.

謝謝你，凱文。你做得特別好。大家早安。

For many reasons today is a great day to discuss with you the state of our company and its direction. This past Sunday on NBC and obviously, all of our NBC-affiliated stations, Grosse Pointe Garden Society, the first of the broadcast shows produced at our own Assembly Studios, premiered at 10:00 PM Eastern Time.

出於多種原因，今天是與您討論我們公司的現狀和發展方向的好日子。上週日，NBC 以及我們所有 NBC 附屬電台的《格羅斯波因特園藝協會》於美國東部時間晚上 10 點首播，這是我們在 Assembly Studios 製作的第一個廣播節目。

Next, this Monday, on CBS, the first new soap opera in over 30 years, Beyond the Gates, also shot at Assembly, premiered at 3:00 PM Eastern Time, and then every day, so far this week on all of our stations and across the country. Significantly, the Gates is a coproduction between CBS and the NAACP, that focuses on a very successful African-American family in Maryland, the Dupree family. A milestone show in broadcast history, and we are exceptionally proud to help get it on the air out of Assembly Studios here in Atlanta.

接下來，本週一，哥倫比亞廣播公司 (CBS) 播出了 30 多年來的第一部新肥皂劇《大門之外》，該劇也是在 Assembly 拍攝的，於美國東部時間下午 3 點首播，然後，本周到目前為止，每天都會在我們所有的電視台和全國各地播出。值得注意的是，《蓋茲》是哥倫比亞廣播公司和全國有色人種協進會聯合製作的，故事聚焦在馬裡蘭州一個非常成功的非裔美國家庭——杜普里家族。這是廣播史上的一個里程碑式的節目，我們非常自豪能夠幫助它在亞特蘭大的 Assembly Studios 播出。

And tonight, we are thrilled to reinforce the news that across 24 Gray Television markets, the Atlanta Braves Americas Team will debut on live television from Spring Training in Florida. Tonight's game against the Washington Nationals will be the first of 10 preseason games produced by Gray that will air across Braves Nation. And we will follow up with 15 regular season games simulcast across the same footprint. These are accomplishments that we are truly proud of.

今晚，我們很高興地向大家強調，亞特蘭大勇士美洲隊將在 24 個灰色電視市場進行電視直播，首次在佛羅裡達州進行春訓。今晚對陣華盛頓國民隊的比賽將是格雷製作的 10 場季前賽中的第一場，將在勇士隊全國播出。我們還將在同一區域同步轉播 15 場常規賽。這些成就確實令我們感到自豪。

Now let's turn to our financials. We are very happy to announce that our results for the fourth quarter finished better than our guidance on both revenues and expenses. Total revenue in the fourth quarter of 2024 was $1 billion, an increase of 21% from the fourth quarter of 2023.

現在讓我們來談談財務狀況。我們非常高興地宣布，我們第四季的業績無論是收入還是支出都比我們的預期好。2024 年第四季總營收為 10 億美元，較 2023 年第四季成長 21%。

Total operating expenses in the fourth quarter of 2024 were 2% below the low end of our previously announced guidance. Net income attributable to common stockholders was $156 million in the fourth quarter of 2024, compared to a net loss attributable to common stockholders of $22 million in Q4 2023.

2024 年第四季的總營運費用比我們先前公佈的指引的低端低 2%。2024 年第四季歸屬於普通股股東的淨利潤為 1.56 億美元，而 2023 年第四季歸屬於普通股股東的淨虧損為 2,200 萬美元。

Adjusted EBITDA was $402 million in the fourth quarter of '24, an increase of 86% from the fourth quarter of 2023, due primarily to political advertising revenue. In addition to these operating results, we're proud of the progress we made on our balance sheet during the fourth quarter.

2024 年第四季調整後 EBITDA 為 4.02 億美元，較 2023 年第四季成長 86%，主要得益於政治廣告收入。除了這些經營業績之外，我們也對第四季資產負債表的進展感到自豪。

Just 2 weeks after our third quarter earnings call, we announced that we have completed a series of transactions that collectively reduced the company's principal amount of debt outstanding by $278 million since October 1.

在我們第三季財報電話會議召開僅兩週後，我們宣布已完成一系列交易，自 10 月 1 日以來，這些交易共減少了公司未償還債務的本金金額 2.78 億美元。

During the full year of 2024, we reduced the company's total principal debt by $520 million, exceeding our $0.5 billion goal. That November announcement was a fitting way to complete the year in which we executed on our pledge to concentrate our free cash on reducing our debt and improving our balance sheet.

2024 年全年，我們將公司的總本金債務減少了 5.2 億美元，超過了 5 億美元的目標。11 月的聲明是我們履行承諾、將自由現金集中用於減少債務和改善資產負債表的一年的完美結束。

In addition to reducing our total debt during the year, we also refinanced our debt to extend our maturity days, increased our revolving loans available, and greatly lowered our capital spending as we completed numerous projects. In the end, we finished the end with a lower leverage ratio than we began the year.

除了在年內減少我們的總債務之外，我們還對債務進行了再融資以延長債務到期日，增加了可用的循環貸款，並且隨著我們完成眾多項目而大大降低了資本支出。最終，我們以低於年初的槓桿率結束了這一年。

Operationally, we continue to enhance our local content offerings in 2024. We devoted tremendous efforts to reaching new local sports back to our television stations. Last year's milestones included a historic deal, as I had mentioned earlier, bringing Atlanta Braves games back to broadcast of Gray's TV stations in our home town of Atlanta, and throughout most of the Southeast this Spring. We also renewed our affiliation agreement with ABC network for four additional years.

在營運方面，我們將在 2024 年繼續增強本地內容的提供。我們投入了巨大的努力來將新的本地體育賽事帶回我們的電視台。正如我之前提到的，去年的里程碑包括一項歷史性的協議，將亞特蘭大勇士隊的比賽重新在我們家鄉亞特蘭大的格雷電視台以及今年春天在東南部大部分地區播出。我們也與 ABC 網路續簽了四年的合作協議。

In 2024, our Investigate TV and local news live franchises both continued their momentum with viewers and both also significantly expanding their distribution across broadcast, digital and mobile platforms. The success of NBCU and CBS at Assembly Studios provide wind in our sales as we continue discussion about leasing our remaining studio facilities with other production companies.

2024 年，我們的調查電視和本地新聞直播特許經營權都繼續受到觀眾的青睞，並且都在廣播、數位和行動平台上顯著擴大了其分銷範圍。NBCU 和 CBS 在 Assembly Studios 的成功為我們的銷售帶來了動力，我們將繼續與其他製作公司討論租賃剩餘演播室設施的事宜。

We expect to have more announcements about Assembly Atlanta throughout this year. That will include progress on the buildup of other parts of our mixed-use campus on the land that we own. Importantly, utilizing financial resource of our future business partners at the site.

我們預計今年將會有更多關於亞特蘭大大會的公告。這將包括在我們擁有的土地上建造混合用途園區的其他部分。重要的是，利用我們未來業務合作夥伴的現場財務資源。

With our significant capital investments now largely behind us, future projects at Assembly Studios and Assembly Atlanta should enable the development to expand its financial contributions to our entire company. We are also encouraged by signs from Washington, pointing to a long overdue reform of the regulatory constraints that have literally harmed local broadcasters.

鑑於我們目前已基本完成大量資本投資，Assembly Studios 和 Assembly Atlanta 的未來專案應能擴大對我們整個公司的財務貢獻。華盛頓方面的跡像也令我們感到鼓舞，這些跡象顯示早就應該對那些嚴重損害地方廣播公司的監管限制進行改革。

While every day, we compete for local ad dollars with tech giants free from constraining rules that we are shackled with, which, as one of our more eloquent lawyers wrote, were enacted before the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. It remains a fundamentally wrong and harmful policy for the government to burden our local news and sales employees with these decades-old restraints, while imposing essentially no restraints on much larger companies who compete vigorously with us for the attention of viewers and advertising budgets.

而我們每天都在與不受我們束縛的科技巨頭爭奪本地廣告收入，正如我們的一位雄辯的律師所寫，這些規則是在日本轟炸珍珠港之前製定的。政府用這些已有數十年歷史的限制來加重我們當地新聞和銷售人員的負擔，而對那些與我們激烈競爭觀眾注意力和廣告預算的大型公司卻基本上不施加任何限制，這仍然是一項從根本上錯誤且有害的政策。

We are optimistic that the federal government, as well as our upcoming negotiations with our network partners, CBS, FOX and NBC, will recognize the reality of today's media marketplace in 2025. Such actions will enable us and our peers to operate more efficiently, compete better against the tech giants, and deliver better services for our viewers, our advertisers and indeed, our shareholders.

我們樂觀地認為，聯邦政府以及我們即將與網路合作夥伴 CBS、FOX 和 NBC 進行的談判將在 2025 年認識到當今媒體市場的現實。這些舉措將使我們和我們的同行能夠更有效地運營，更好地與科技巨頭競爭，並為我們的觀眾、廣告商以及股東提供更好的服務。

At this time, I would like to turn it over to Pat LaPlatney.

現在，我想把它交給 Pat LaPlatney。

Thank you, Hilton. Last year, our business we remembered primarily for political ad revenues. Broadcasters overall took in record revenue from political ad spending and a lot of new dollars that entered the space were used to buy ads on Connected TV. Gray also sells ads on Connected TV platforms and has a dedicated team focusing on ways to better leverage our strong digital audiences and local connections in the political ad space, as we expect that sector to grow going forward.

謝謝你，希爾頓。去年，我們的業務主要集中在政治廣告收入。總體而言，廣播公司從政治廣告支出中獲得了創紀錄的收入，大量進入該領域的新資金被用於購買連網電視上的廣告。Gray 還在連網電視平台上銷售廣告，並擁有一支專門的團隊，致力於更好地利用我們強大的數位受眾和政治廣告領域的本地聯繫，因為我們預計該領域未來將會成長。

Overall, in '24, we saw increases in each category of political ad revenues other than Senate, which is our largest category. Despite the Senate map not favoring Gray's footprint in 2024, we still believe that our political advertising revenues for the year exceeded our peers in total dollars and on a per television household basis, based on the results announced by our peers right after the election.

整體而言，2024 年，除參議院（我們最大的類別）外，我們看到各類別政治廣告收入都有增加。儘管參議院地圖不利於格雷在 2024 年的足跡，但根據我們的同行在選舉後立即宣布的結果，我們仍然相信，我們今年的政治廣告收入在總額和每個電視家庭的基礎上超過了我們的同行。

The $250 million of political ad revenue in the fourth quarter had the expected effect of displacing a large amount of core advertising revenue through election day, as happens every election year. As we mentioned on the Q3 call, we also heard from our commercial advertising clients in the third and fourth quarter about some hesitancy around advertising during election given the tone of some of the political campaigns. We did, however, exceed our Q4 core guidance.

正如每個選舉年一樣，第四季 2.5 億美元的政治廣告收入產生了預期的效果，即在選舉日之前取代大量核心廣告收入。正如我們在第三季電話會議上提到的那樣，我們在第三季和第四季也從商業廣告客戶那裡聽說，鑑於一些政治競選活動的基調，他們對選舉期間的廣告有些猶豫。然而，我們確實超出了第四季度的核心指導。

The hesitancy and caution on advertising we saw during last fall's election season persisted into January, we think resulting from economic uncertainty due to potential government policy changes. This caution is most evident among our automobile advertising customers. We hear that some dealers and manufacturers are pausing or reducing their advertising campaigns, as they evaluate how tariffs and continued high interest rates may impact near-term demand for new and used cars.

我們認為，去年秋季選舉季期間，人們對廣告的猶豫和謹慎態度一直持續到一月份，這是由於政府政策潛在變化導致的經濟不確定性。這種謹慎在我們的汽車廣告客戶中表現得最為明顯。我們聽說一些經銷商和製造商正在暫停或減少他們的廣告活動，因為他們正在評估關稅和持續的高利率可能如何影響新車和二手車的近期需求。

Our January core ad revenues were down from last year, our February core ad revenues were about the same as last year's, excluding Super Bowl bookings and Leap Day, and March pacings are currently showing improvement and tracking roughly flat to last year's actual core ad revenues. Overall, for the first quarter of 2025, we currently expect that core advertising revenue will be down 7% to 8% compared to the first quarter of '24.

我們一月份的核心廣告收入較去年有所下降，二月份的核心廣告收入與去年大致相同（不包括超級盃預訂和閏日），三月份的節奏目前正在改善，與去年的實際核心廣告收入基本持平。總體而言，我們目前預計 2025 年第一季核心廣告收入將比 2024 年第一季下降 7% 至 8%。

Again, there are three primary factors causing this decline. First, is the political or economic uncertainty that I just discussed. The second impact on core results was from the Super Bowl airing on our 33 FOX channels in 2025, compared to our 54 CBS stations in 2024.

再一次，造成這種下降的主要因素有三。首先，就是我剛才討論的政治或經濟不確定性。對核心表現的第二個影響是，2025 年超級盃將在我們的 33 個 FOX 頻道播出，而 2024 年將在 54 個 CBS 頻道播出。

Our FOX stations did very well, increasing their Super Bowl advertising revenue by about 50% for the last time the big game aired on FOX in 2023. This, however, was still only about half of what we sold during last year's Super Bowl, they aired across our much larger CBS footprint, including our CBS station in the Chiefs hometown of Kansas City, as well as St. Louis, Topeka and Wichita.

我們的 FOX 電視台表現非常出色，2023 年超級盃比賽最後一次在 FOX 電視台播出時，其廣告收入成長了約 50%。然而，這仍然只是我們去年超級盃期間銷量的一半左右，這些節目在我們更大的 CBS 覆蓋範圍內播出，包括酋長隊家鄉堪薩斯城的 CBS 電台，以及聖路易斯、托皮卡和威奇托。

Finally, our first quarter of 2025 will be negatively impacted by 1 less billing day due to leap day, which we estimate impacted our core revenue by $3.5 million to $4 million. Excluding Super Bowl and leap day impact, our core advertising revenue guide for the first quarte, 2025 is down 3.3% to 4.6% from the first quarter of 2024.

最後，由於閏日，我們的 2025 年第一季將受到 1 個計費日減少的負面影響，我們估計這將對我們的核心收入產生 350 萬至 400 萬美元的影響。不計超級盃和閏日的影響，我們對 2025 年第一季的核心廣告收入指南將比 2024 年第一季下降 3.3% 至 4.6%。

We are encouraged by our success in acquiring Pro Sports rights. Hilton mentioned the Braves, which will impact 24 Gray markets. We announced our Memphis Grizzlies deal this morning and expect to announce a couple more agreements in the next few weeks. We anticipate having local sports product in 75 to 80 Gray markets by the end of the first quarter.

我們對成功取得職業運動版權感到鼓舞。希爾頓提到了勇士隊，這將影響24個灰色市場。我們今天上午宣布了與孟菲斯灰熊隊的交易，並預計在未來幾週內宣布更多協議。我們預計到第一季末，本地運動產品將在 75 至 80 個灰色市場中推出。

With that, I'll turn it over to Jeff.

說完這些，我就把麥克風交給傑夫。

Thank you, Pat. As Hilton mentioned earlier, reducing debt and leverage remains our top capital allocation priority, and we made significant progress again in the fourth quarter.

謝謝你，帕特。正如希爾頓之前提到的，減少債務和槓桿仍然是我們資本配置的首要任務，我們在第四季再次取得了重大進展。

As everyone saw in our release, we finished the year at 2.97 times first-lien leverage, and 5.49 times total leverage. And as a side, I would note that our leverage ratio as defined in our senior credit agreement, does not allow us to take credit immediately for cost containment initiatives. And that may not be comparable to what is indicated by publicly available documents for others out there.

正如大家在我們的發布中所看到的，我們今年的業績為第一留置權槓桿的 2.97 倍，總槓桿的 5.49 倍。另外，我想指出的是，我們的高級信貸協議中定義的槓桿率不允許我們立即獲得成本控制舉措的信貸。這可能無法與其他人的公開文件所顯示的情況相比。

So to be clear, we've not retroactively included the benefits from the $60 million of cost initiatives we announced last quarter in our December 31, '24 calculations. We are, however, on pace to be at the full $60 million run rate by the end of this quarter.

因此需要明確的是，我們並沒有將上個季度宣布的 6,000 萬美元成本計畫帶來的收益追溯納入 2024 年 12 月 31 日的計算中。然而，到本季末，我們的營業額將達到 6,000 萬美元。

We've been very transparent and opportunistic on our debt reduction efforts and are proud that we reduced our principal balance by $520 million during 2024. Through use of open market repurchases, we captured $46 million in debt discounts during 2024 and we continue to have our $250 million Board authorization available for further open market repurchases. And I think as we've pretty clearly demonstrated, we'll continue to be thoughtful and nimble in deploying our liquidity to further delever the company.

我們在減債工作上一直非常透明且抓住機遇，並且很自豪我們在 2024 年將本金餘額減少了 5.2 億美元。透過公開市場回購，我們在 2024 年獲得了 4,600 萬美元的債務折扣，並且我們繼續擁有 2.5 億美元的董事會授權，可用於進一步的公開市場回購。我認為，正如我們已經非常清楚表明的那樣，我們將繼續深思熟慮並靈活地部署我們的流動性，以進一步降低公司的槓桿率。

We entered 2025 in a very strong liquidity position. As of December 31, '24, we had $135 million in cash, plus $680 million revolving credit facility available. We expect that the next political cycle in 2026 will provide significant cash that together with the liquidity that I just mentioned, will be more than sufficient to address our remaining $528 million 2027 bond maturity. While repaying debt is our number one capital allocation priority, we could also access the debt markets if attractive terms and pricing are available.

進入 2025 年，我們的流動性狀況將非常強勁。截至 24 年 12 月 31 日，我們擁有 1.35 億美元現金，外加 6.8 億美元的循環信貸額度。我們預計，2026 年的下一個政治週期將提供大量現金，加上我剛才提到的流動性，足以解決我們剩餘的 5.28 億美元 2027 年到期債券的問題。雖然償還債務是我們首要的資本配置重點，但如果有有吸引力的條款和價格，我們也可以進入債務市場。

A couple of other items to mention. Our cash taxes were a little above our Q4 guidance. That's primarily due to taxes on cancellation of indebtedness income. And our CapEx came in slightly below our fourth quarter guide at $96 million, and we expect slightly lower CapEx again in 2025.

還有一些其他事項需要提及。我們的現金稅略高於第四季的預期。這主要是由於取消債務收入的稅收。我們的資本支出略低於第四季的指導價值 9,600 萬美元，我們預計 2025 年的資本支出將再次略有下降。

Yesterday, our Board of Directors declared our regular quarterly common dividend of $0.08 per share and the cash payment of our quarterly preferred dividend. As a reminder, the common dividend is a small use of cash for the year that helps the company on the equity side of the balance sheet. And going forward, the Board will continue to evaluate our dividends in light of our financial position, capital needs and other appropriate factors on a quarterly basis.

昨天，我們的董事會宣布派發每股 0.08 美元的常規季度普通股股息，並以現金支付季度優先股股息。提醒一下，普通股股利是年度現金的一小部分用途，有助於公司資產負債表的權益面。展望未來，董事會將繼續根據我們的財務狀況、資本需求和其他適當因素按季度評估我們的股息。

Before I turn the call back to Hilton, a couple of comments on what we're seeing on retrans. Over the last two years, our traditional MVPD subscriber base has declined essentially the same year-over-year overall rate. We're encouraged, however, by recent sub reports from major cable companies showing a modest improvement in their rate of sub declines, which we attribute to a number of factors that have been discussed on many of our prior calls, including better consumer value proposition by staying with cable.

在我將電話轉回希爾頓之前，我想就我們在轉播方面看到的情況發表幾點評論。在過去兩年中，我們傳統的 MVPD 用戶群整體年減速度基本上相同。然而，令我們感到鼓舞的是，主要有線電視公司最近發布的訂閱報告顯示，他們的訂閱下降率略有改善，我們將其歸因於之前多次電話會議中討論過的許多因素，包括繼續使用有線電視可以帶來更好的消費者價值主張。

As you know, we entered into a four-year affiliation agreement with ABC at the end of last year. That agreement and the upcoming renewals this year with the other broadcast networks provide opportunities for us to rebalance the economics of those deals in light of the MVPD subscriber erosion and loss of exclusivity that have occurred since our last renewal cycle.

如您所知，我們在去年年底與 ABC 簽訂了為期四年的合作協議。鑑於自上次續約以來 MVPD 的用戶流失和獨家經營權的喪失，該協議以及今年即將與其他廣播網絡簽訂的續約協議為我們提供了重新平衡這些交易經濟效益的機會。

It's worth noting that our network affiliation fees increased for many years at double-digit rates. Over the past few years, those network affiliation fees have flattened out. And even better, we booked the first ever year-over-year decrease in network affiliation fees in 2024, which we anticipate will continue and even accelerate.

值得注意的是，我們的網路加盟費多年來一直以兩位數的速度成長。過去幾年裡，這些網路加盟費已經趨於平穩。甚至更好的是，我們預計 2024 年網路加盟費將首次同比下降，我們預計這一趨勢將持續甚至加速。

This concludes my remarks, and I'll now turn the call back to Hilton.

我的發言到此結束，現在我將把電話轉回希爾頓。

Thank you very much, Jeff. And now operator, I'd like to open up the call to any questions that anyone may have.

非常感謝，傑夫。接線員，現在我想開始回答大家可能提出的任何問題。

(Operator Instructions) Mr. Aaron Watts, Deutsche Bank.

（操作員指示）德意志銀行 Aaron Watts 先生。

I have 2 questions. Maybe I'll just cover one at a time. The first is around core advertising. Your comments on the softness at the end of '24 and into '25 seem to echo your peers. Given the modest firming up you saw as 1Q played out, as you look ahead, do you think core ads can move to growth on a full year basis? And if so, what might drive that?

我有兩個問題。也許我一次只會講一個。首先是圍繞核心廣告。您對 24 年末和 25 年經濟疲軟的評論似乎與您的同行的看法一致。鑑於您看到第一季的核心廣告業務溫和回升，展望未來，您認為核心廣告業務全年能否成長？如果是這樣，那麼是什麼原因導致的呢？

Yeah. Aaron, it's Pat. So I think the answer is yes. We are -- it's early, but we are encouraged by the second quarter pacing currently. Some of those categories that have been challenged over the last four to six quarters are showing improvement at this point. So again, based on the data we have today, I would answer yes to your question and say that as we look out a little bit, things are more encouraging.

是的。亞倫，我是帕特。所以我認為答案是肯定的。雖然現在還為時過早，但我們對目前第二季的進展感到鼓舞。過去四到六個季度中受到挑戰的一些類別目前已顯示出改善。因此，根據我們今天掌握的數據，我對您的問題回答是肯定的，如果我們稍微觀察一下，就會發現情況更加令人鼓舞。

And Aaron, this is Hilton. Can I add just a little bit of something to that? We discussed this at length in our Board meeting yesterday. A lot of our -- the weakness is in the automobile department. And really for the first time since the end of the second war, the automobile productions don't know what the cost of goods sold are going to be.

亞倫，這是希爾頓。我可以加一點東西嗎？我們在昨天的董事會會議上詳細討論了這個問題。我們的許多弱點都在汽車部門。自第二次世界大戰結束以來，汽車生產商第一次不知道所售商品的成本是多少。

So many parts come from Mexico and Canada and other places around the world. And as we discussed tariffs, I think that's putting a natural chilling effect upon advertising in the automobile sector. That will settle out. And as President Trump has said, there may be some initial pain. This too will pass. And when they know exactly what the prices they need to have to sell their products profitably, I think you're going to see all of the automobile sector returning to advertising.

許多零件來自墨西哥、加拿大和世界其他地方。正如我們討論關稅時所說，我認為這對汽車產業的廣告產生了自然的寒蟬效應。事情會解決的。正如川普總統所說，最初可能會有一些痛苦。這也會過去的。當他們確切地知道需要以什麼樣的價格來盈利地銷售他們的產品時，我認為你會看到整個汽車行業重新回歸廣告。

Okay. That's helpful comments. And then my second question is around expenses in the first quarter. Can you parse out your guide, which looks relatively flat year-over-year, how much of the cost efficiencies you've highlighted flowed through in the first quarter? And what other factors are at play there, including maybe any incremental sports rights? And if you can, how should we think about expenses overall as the year unfolds?

好的。這是很有幫助的評論。我的第二個問題是關於第一季的支出。能否分析一下您的指南？該指南與去年同期相比相對持平，您強調的成本效率在第一季有多少體現？還有哪些因素在起作用，包括可能增加的體育權利？如果可以的話，我們該如何考慮今年的整體支出？

Yeah, Aaron, I'll kick off and others can weigh in. So as we think about what the flow-through of the initiatives that we've announced, you do start -- there's probably, if I had to handicap it, it's two thirds to 75% of it is going to be flowing through in Q1. And then it will build from there.

是的，亞倫，我先開始，其他人可以加入。因此，當我們思考我們所宣布的措施的實施效果時，你就會開始——如果我必須對其進行預測，那麼其中三分之二到 75% 的資金將在第一季實施。然後它將從那裡開始構建。

It also doesn't mean that we're necessarily done. We look at everything every day and try to be really smart about where we're spending. So I think for the full year, our hope is that we'll be able to, as we've said before, keep the overall rate of growth on the expense side below inflation and potentially even get it to turn negative during the year.

但這也不代表我們就一定完成了。我們每天都會注意一切事物，並盡力明智地決定要花錢的地方。因此我認為，就全年而言，我們希望能夠像我們之前所說的那樣，將支出方面的整體成長率保持在通貨膨脹率以下，甚至有可能在年內實現負成長。

Yeah. I just -- Aaron, it's Pat. Just real quick, I would amplify what Jeff is saying. We look at these numbers every day and are trying to find ways to rein in costs. And I can think of a few initiatives over just the last three or four weeks, where it may not have been part of the big project we announced in the fourth quarter, but -- like Jeff said, we're looking at it every day.

是的。我只是──亞倫，我是派特。簡單來說，我會進一步闡述傑夫所說的話。我們每天都會查看這些數字並試圖找到控製成本的方法。我可以想到過去三四周內的一些舉措，它們可能不是我們在第四季度宣布的大型項目的一部分，但是——就像傑夫說的，我們每天都在關注它。

And so offsetting some of those costs you're taking out, what were some of the kind of offsetting ups in costs that are playing into the flat overall guidance in 1Q?

那麼，除了抵銷您所扣除的部分成本之外，還有哪些成本的抵銷性上漲對第一季的整體指引持平產生了影響？

Yeah. Look, we didn't -- we still have to run very strong local businesses, and we have to attract and retain the talent across the firm. And so we did give raises that are ordinary course of business type thing. So when you have 9,700 or so employees in the company, that -- there's some uplift there. There's some normal increases in other things that just are contractual, but other than that, I mean, it's really -- like Pat said, it's looking for more -- the most efficient way to continue to deliver a very high-quality product in the markets that we serve.

是的。你看，我們沒有——我們仍然必須經營非常強大的本地業務，我們必須吸引和留住整個公司的人才。因此，我們確實給予了加薪，這是正常的業務流程類型的事情。因此，當公司有 9,700 名左右的員工時，就會出現一些提升。其他方面有一些正常的增長，只是合約規定的，但除此之外，我的意思是，這真的——就像帕特說的，它正在尋求更多——最有效的方式，繼續在我們服務的市場上提供高品質的產品。

Daniel Kurnos, The Benchmark Company.

丹尼爾·庫爾諾斯（Daniel Kurnos），The Benchmark Company。

Great. Hilton, maybe I'll stick with you, or Pat, a little bit here since you talked about the Braves. Obviously, we have a somewhat public breakup between Major League Baseball and the ESPN. So just curious, the RSNs have picked up a bunch of local games and other sports, but curious if you view that as an opportunity?

偉大的。希爾頓，既然你談到了勇士隊，也許我會繼續和你或帕特討論這件事。顯然，美國職棒大聯盟和 ESPN 已經公開分道揚鑣。所以只是好奇，RSN 已經選擇了許多本地比賽和其他運動，但好奇您是否認為這是一個機會？

And then separately, Hilton, you've talked a lot about expanding sort of the mixed-use zones with regards to Assembly. It seems like that's starting to move forward. So I'd love to get a sense from you on TAM, timing, monetization, just how we should think about contribution to that, either this year or next year and for however you want to frame it.

另外，希爾頓，您已經談了很多關於擴大與大會有關的混合用途區域的問題。看起來事情正在開始向前發展。因此，我很想從您那裡了解 TAM、時間安排、貨幣化，以及我們應該如何考慮對此的貢獻，無論是今年還是明年，以及您想如何建立它。

Well, you heard this in Pat's discussions. Let me start with sports first, all right? It's a remarkable opportunity. I think by the end of this quarter, Pat articulated to you guys that we will have live professional local sports in 80-something markets across our 113 market profile. That's amazing. And we have been working assiduously. A year ago, we had Arizona and the Suns. And now we have stations across our footprint.

好吧，您在 Pat 的討論中聽到了這一點。讓我先從運動開始，好嗎？這是一個難得的機會。我認為到本季末，帕特向你們明確表示，我們將在 113 個市場中的 80 多個市場中直播專業本地體育賽事。太棒了。我們一直在勤奮努力。一年前，我們有亞利桑那隊和太陽隊。現在，我們的足跡遍佈各地。

If you take a look at our investment deck, Daniel, you can see our sports networks, the Gray, regional sports networks that we created on our own, all in broadcast and we are immensely proud of what we're able to do, not just with the professional sports, but with local sports teams that go down to the high school level, across these networks. And so I think that's going to be really, really hugely additive in terms of our viewership and our profits. Because it creates an immense halo around the stations and it attracts viewers.

丹尼爾，如果你看一下我們的投資組合，你會看到我們的體育網絡、Gray、我們自己創建的區域體育網絡，它們都在進行廣播，我們對自己所做的事情感到無比自豪，不僅僅是在職業體育方面，而且在這些網絡上，還有一直到高中水平的當地運動隊。因此，我認為這對我們的收視率和利潤將產生巨大的附加價值。因為它在車站周圍形成了巨大的光環，吸引了觀眾。

And a year ago, we didn't have that. It's a great, great addition to our portfolio. Now Assembly. The studios are finished. They are making shows. And as I mentioned -- and I mean, you guys know, I mean, some people cake me about Assembly. I'm immensely proud of what's Grosse Pointe Garden Society on NBC did Sunday night. And remarkably proud, really remarkably proud of Beyond the Gates in terms of the productions that are now on our stations. And so from a business standpoint, I could not be happier with Assembly Studios and the Georgia Film Production that we have in the state.

而一年前，我們還沒有這樣的經驗。這是對我們的產品組合的極大補充。現在組裝。工作室已經完工。他們正在製作節目。正如我所提到的 - 我的意思是，你們知道，有些人對我的 Assembly 感到不滿。我為 NBC 電視台格羅斯波因特園藝協會週日晚上的表演感到無比自豪。而且，就目前我們電台播出的《超越大門》節目而言，我們感到非常自豪，真的非常自豪。因此，從商業角度來看，我對 Assembly Studios 和喬治亞州的電影製作公司感到非常滿意。

Now in terms of Phase 2, I'm not in a position to prudently announce anything but we are looking at growing other assets, largely in partnership with other companies. We've got a lot of folks that have come to us. And we do not have a large capital expenditure budget in Assembly. So it will be met. We contribute our land, they put in whatever they decide to do, and we will add more profitable operations to it, not using our balance sheet dramatically at all. But it will allow the remaining 80-something acres to begin adding profits to the broader company, which we're very excited about.

現在就第二階段而言，我無法謹慎地宣布任何消息，但我們正在考慮擴大其他資產，主要是與其他公司合作。有很多人來找我們。而且我們在議會的資本支出預算並不大。所以它會被滿足。我們貢獻土地，他們投入他們決定做的任何事情，我們將在其中增加更多有利可圖的業務，而不會大幅佔用我們的資產負債表。但它將使剩下的 80 多英畝土地開始為整個公司帶來利潤，我們對此感到非常興奮。

So I hope I answered your question, Daniel.

所以我希望我回答了你的問題，丹尼爾。

And Dan, I'll just touch on ESPN real quick and baseball. I'm not sure that's a huge opportunity for broadcast. As Hilton mentioned, there's all kinds of opportunities out there. That particular sort of divorce, if you will, I'm not sure that creates a ton like the Sunday Night package, right? Is that going to end up in syndication, I kind of doubt it, but who knows?

丹，我只想快速談談 ESPN 和棒球。我不確定這對於廣播來說是否是一個巨大的機會。正如希爾頓所說，那裡有各種各樣的機會。如果你願意的話，我不確定那種特殊的離婚是否會產生像《週日晚間新聞》那樣的效應，對嗎？這最終是否會以聯合形式結束，我有點懷疑，但誰知道呢？

But the reality is, just if you look at our new investor deck and the logo suite page on the sports section, I mean there's a lot of baseball that's going to land in small packages on broadcast television this year, and we're involved in many of those. And Hilton touched on the sort of halo impact of having sports on your stations that I'm going to turn it to Sandy to talk about that perspective. It's very real.

但事實是，只要你看一下我們新的投資者平台和體育版塊的徽標套件頁面，你就會發現今年有很多棒球比賽將以小規模的形式在電視廣播中播出，而我們參與了其中的許多節目。希爾頓談到了在電視台播放體育節目所帶來的光環效應，我將請桑迪來談談這個觀點。這是非常真實的。

Yeah, Dan, it is. I mean these relationships not only bring viewers to the games, but there's an overall halo effect. And we're seeing that. And Phoenix is a perfect case study. We're in our second full season with the Suns, and we have seen that. We have seen advertisers who came to us for the games and now rediscovered the power of broadcast, and local broadcast reach, and are now advertising in other dayparts. So we've seen that halo effect across the board.

是的，丹，確實如此。我的意思是，這些關係不僅能吸引觀眾觀看比賽，還能產生整體的光環效應。我們正在見證這一點。菲尼克斯就是一個完美的案例。我們與太陽隊一起度過了第二個完整賽季，我們已經看到了這一點。我們看到，以前為奧運會找我們的廣告商現在重新發現了廣播和本地廣播覆蓋範圍的力量，並且開始在其他時段投放廣告。因此，我們已經全面看到了這種光環效應。

It is very comprehensive, guys. And Pat, we'll see how they end up carving it up. Maybe they'll follow NBA and NHL.

夥計們，它非常全面。帕特，我們將看看他們最終如何分割。也許他們會關注 NBA 和 NHL。

Craig Huber, Huber Research.

克雷格·胡貝爾（Craig Huber），胡貝爾研究公司（Huber Research）。

On Assembly Atlanta, maybe can you just give us the updated figure for what the total cost is for the project, gross and the net cost? Let me start there, please.

關於亞特蘭大裝配，您能否給我們提供該項目總成本、毛成本和淨成本的最新數字？請讓我從這裡開始。

Land cost, acquisition cost, building costs is roughly $500 million more or less.

土地成本、收購成本、建築成本約 5 億美元左右。

Specific numbers are in the 10-K, which we are following later this afternoon.

具體數字在 10-K 中，我們將在今天下午晚些時候關注。

Roughly $500 million net, is that what you're saying?

您的意思是淨利潤約為 5 億美元嗎？

Yeah, net or gross, I didn't look at it.

是的，無論是淨值還是毛值，我都沒有看過。

Okay. Very good. And then you guys are -- I think you're talking about $27 million to $28 million of production company revenue in the first quarter. That'll be up, I guess, $5 million to $6 million over a two-year basis.

好的。非常好。然後你們——我想你們談論的是第一季製作公司的收入為 2700 萬至 2800 萬美元。我估計，兩年內這個數字將增加 500 萬到 600 萬美元。

Do you expect that number to ramp up significantly as -- putting aside seasonality, as the year progresses? I'm just trying to get a sense here of the ROI that you're getting off that $500 million?

您是否預計，隨著時間的推移，除了季節性因素外，這個數字會大幅上升？我只是想了解您從這 5 億美元中獲得的投資回報率是多少？

The answer is yeah, but there's a couple of things to keep in mind. The immediate impact will be added revenue as more productions build, as I'm sure a lot of you guys know. Right now, Hollywood, however you want to define that, has got a lot of issues. And none of those are under our control, and none of it was created by our company, but the strikes slowed everything in 2024. But as you can tell, productions continue, and I'm really quite excited about not just what we have currently in place and the television shows showing.

答案是肯定的，但有幾件事需要記住。我相信很多人都知道，隨著更多作品的推出，直接的影響力就是增加收入。現在，無論你怎麼定義好萊塢，它都面臨很多問題。這些都不在我們的控制範圍內，也不是我們公司創造的，但 2024 年的罷工拖慢了一切進程。但正如你所看到的，製作仍在繼續，我不僅對我們目前所做的工作和正在播放的電視節目感到非常興奮。

And for the first time in Georgia, we actually got a broadcast TV show, everything before we went on streaming or on cable. And we have Grosse Pointe and the Gates on our stations, and I could not be happier about it. We're probably 70% occupied in the stages. So I think there's about a 30%, maybe more, upside just in terms of booking, and we have literally quotes out for every station that is not currently filled with a film or television production. And so we're seeing a lot more robust activity in the film and television production side.

在喬治亞州，我們第一次真正擁有了廣播電視節目，這一切都是在串流媒體或有線電視上播出之前發生的。我們的站點上有格羅斯波因特和大門，我對此感到非常高興。我們各階段的佔用率大概為 70%。因此，我認為在預訂方面大約有 30% 甚至更多的上升空間，而且我們確實為每個目前沒有電影或電視製作的電視台提供了報價。因此，我們看到電影和電視製作的活動更加活躍。

And while I can't talk to you about the individual stuff because often sometimes I really don't know. Like when we're doing a deal that comes under a code name and we'll get a production request, and I have no idea other than who the company is, what the actual production is because they kind of keep it under wraps until really the last moment because they like to control their own publicity. So immediately, you're going to see it through the return on the studios.

但我不能和你談論具體的事情，因為有時我真的不知道。例如，當我們在做一項代號為「a」的交易時，我們會收到一份生產請求，但我除了知道公司是誰之外，對實際生產情況一無所知，因為他們喜歡控制自己的宣傳，所以他們會一直保密到最後一刻。因此，您馬上就會透過工作室的回報看到這一點。

But we have another 80 acres that is not currently adding value. And as I mentioned, we're not going to spend a lot more capital, but we're going to enter into partnerships for a variety of assets. It's -- because it's an Atlanta thing, sort of the inspiration for what has been done at the battery with the Braves, which has added immense value to the Braves franchise and to their audiences, is sort of what we're looking at as a comparable in this city.

但我們還有另外 80 英畝土地目前尚未增值。正如我所提到的，我們不會投入更多資金，但我們會就各種資產建立合作關係。因為這是亞特蘭大的事情，有點像勇士隊在電池方面所做的事情的靈感，這為勇士隊的特許經營權和他們的觀眾增加了巨大的價值，有點像我們在這個城市所看到的可比的東西。

We're going to take a deal by deal and step by step. And we delayed everything because the market wasn't right. People -- banks weren't lending. And the world kind of changed in November. There's a lot of animal spirits that we're seeing out there. So we're very bullish about opportunities and partnerships going forward.

我們將逐項、逐步地處理所有交易。由於市場不景氣，我們推遲了一切。人們——銀行不再放款。十一月，世界發生了變化。我們看到了許多動物精神。因此，我們對未來的機會和合作關係非常樂觀。

My second question, if I could. On potential deregulation here, do you guys feel that you will be a major -- a significant participant if the deregulation happens or if assets become available out there? Or does your debt load precludes you from participating much? How are you thinking about that?

我的第二個問題是，如果可以的話。關於潛在的放鬆管制，如果放鬆管制發生或有資產可用，你們是否認為你們將成為一個主要－重要的參與者？或者您的債務負擔是否妨礙了您參與更多活動？您對此有何看法？

Well, I mean, look, we're going to -- if we do a deal, it will be a smart deal. There are a lot of things that we would be very interested in doing. Deregulation occurs as we have been indicated, it will. There are opportunities for swaps. There are opportunities for acquisitions. And we've been in this position before. And we've done a number of acquisitions, actually delevering acquisitions. And so we will be looking at that. But there is an opportunity, and this is a finite universe. And we'll take each deal and each opportunity as it comes.

嗯，我的意思是，看，我們將——如果我們達成協議，那將是一筆明智的協議。有很多事情我們都很感興趣。正如我們所指出的，放鬆管制是必然發生的。有交換的機會。存在收購的機會。我們以前也遇到過這種情況。我們進行了一些收購，實際上是去槓桿收購。因此我們將對此進行研究。但機會是存在的，而且這是一個有限的宇宙。我們將抓住每一筆交易和每一個機會。

One of the happy things about our company is that there's no must-have deals we need to have. We have -- and I suggest you look at it. I think we have the finest footprint in broadcast history. There is no peer in our industry that could have delivered what we delivered to The Braves in Braves Nation. 24 markets.

我們公司令人高興的一件事是，我們不需要達成任何必須達成的交易。我們有—我建議你看看它。我認為我們在廣播史上留下了最美好的足跡。在我們的行業中，沒有任何一家同行能夠為勇士隊的國家隊提供我們所提供的服務。 24 個市場。

If you look at what we have and what we can do is quite remarkable. But you can look at our investment deck that we had published, I think, today. And you can look at that being true in Arizona, throughout Nevada, throughout the American Midwest, throughout the other Southeastern states that are not the same.

如果你看看我們所擁有的和我們能做的，你會發現這是相當了不起的。但我想，您可以看看我們今天發布的投資組合。你可以看看亞利桑那州、整個內華達州、整個美國中西部地區以及其他東南部各州的情況，它們的情況並不相同。

But what we've done in the Gulf Coast with the Pelicans, we're thrilled with, absolutely thrilled with. And we hope to replicate that in a lot of places. Because while you got to have the major markets, Gray has a smaller markets that really root for these teams.

但是，我們與鵜鶘隊在墨西哥灣沿岸所做的事情讓我們感到非常興奮，非常興奮。我們希望在很多地方複製這種做法。因為雖然你擁有主要市場，但格雷擁有真正支持這些球隊的小市場。

My last question, you guys talked about the potential here for retrans sub declines to moderate. I'm just curious if maybe you're willing to share with us, how are you guys budgeting sub declines in your financials for this year? Are you expecting it to materially get better, say, in the back half of the year on a year-over-year basis?

我的最後一個問題是，你們討論了重新轉換子下降至中等程度的可能性。我只是好奇，您是否願意與我們分享，你們今年的財務預算是如何下降的？您是否預計今年下半年的情況會比去年同期有實質改善？

This is Kevin. We do expect the rate of sub declines to slow (inaudible) same thing last year, what we have seen some encouraging signs late last year as have other folks in the media industry have expressed that. Our internal numbers are assuming things stay the same. We're not giving full year guidance on retrans. So that's just an internal number. We are not projecting a material increase or decrease. We're presuming that rate of decline will just be the same. That's the easiest baseline to budget.

這是凱文。我們確實預期訂閱量下降的速度會減緩（聽不清楚），與去年的情況相同，我們在去年年底看到了一些令人鼓舞的跡象，媒體行業的其他人也表達了這一點。我們的內部數據假設情況保持不變。我們不會給出全年的轉播指引。所以這只是一個內部數字。我們預計不會出現實質的增加或減少。我們假設下降率將保持不變。這是預算最簡單的基準。

Avi Steiner, JPMorgan Chase & Company.

摩根大通公司的 Avi Steiner。

On the reverse comp trends, you mentioned an opportunity to rebalance economics. And I think you rightly pointed out the decrease in fees in '24. I thought you mentioned it could be lower in '25. Could you dimensionalize that for us this year or maybe put a little more context around it? And then I have one more.

關於逆向競爭趨勢，您提到了重新平衡經濟的機會。我認為您正確地指出了 24 年費用的下降。我以為你提到 25 年可能會更低。您能否為我們今年詳細闡述這一點，或提供更多的背景資訊？然後我還有一個。

Yeah, Avi, it's Jeff. So we have -- our two larger contracts, CBS and FOX are up the summer, and then NBC at the end of the year. And so I don't want to say a lot about specifics around (technical difficulty) not going to be giving a full year guide until we have more clarity on where those negotiations are going to come out.

是的，阿維，我是傑夫。所以我們有兩份較大的合同，CBS 和 FOX 的合約在夏天到期，然後 NBC 的合約在年底到期。因此，我不想談論太多有關（技術難度）的具體細節，在我們更清楚地了解這些談判的結果之前，我不會提供全年的指導。

But suffice it to say, Avi, we're very optimistic, and we're very proud. I will begin -- we can't disclose it. But we're very proud of our new relationship with ABC. I think it properly balances the value of their affiliation with the value of our local TV stations. And as has been mentioned in our earnings spreads. It's the first time we've actually started seeing a decrease in our network like payments. And I think that's very important in today's world. And it's a recognition of reality the media broadcast space in 2025.

但我可以說，阿維，我們非常樂觀，我們非常自豪。我將開始——我們不能透露。但我們對與 ABC 的新關係感到非常自豪。我認為它適當地平衡了他們的附屬價值和我們當地電視台的價值。正如我們在收益利差中所提到的。這是我們第一次真正看到網路支付量出現下降。我認為這在當今世界非常重要。這是對2025年媒體廣播領域現實的認知。

Perfect. I appreciate that. One last one for me. maybe, Jeff, for you or anyone else. But you guys were opportunistic late last year across the debt stack. And as we move into '25, you have the authorization you highlighted, perhaps some other cash coming in.

完美的。我很感激。對我來說還有最後一個。傑夫，也許對你或其他任何人都是如此。但去年年底，你們在債務問題上抓住了機會。當我們進入 25 年時，您已經獲得了所強調的授權，也許還會有一些其他現金流入。

The question is how do you view the trade-off from here between discount on the longer-dated debt, but lower coupon debt, versus some front-end needs you will have in the coming years?

問題是，從現在起，您如何看待長期債務的折扣、較低票面利率債務與未來幾年的一些前端需求之間的權衡？

Yeah. I think -- look, I think the best place to look is what we did last year. The market guided where we were going. I did want to finish the year with a manageable 2027 maturity. And so at $528 million that is manageable, either via the revolver or a nice round offering size if we went back to the debt market. So I think we're just going to have to see where things are trading at any point in time when we have excess cash available to deploy it and let that be our guide.

是的。我認為——看，我認為最好的地方就是我們去年所做的事情。市場指引我們的方向。我確實希望以可控的 2027 年成熟度結束這一年。因此，5.28 億美元的規模是可以控制的，無論是透過循環信貸還是透過一輪規模可觀的發行（如果我們回到債務市場）。因此，我認為，當我們有多餘的現金可供部署時，我們只需要觀察當時的交易情況，並以此作為我們的指導。

Just one piece, and maybe sort of color to what you were asking about. Like on our CapEx deal, which everybody has got to realize, is that this company did a lot of acquisitions over a substantial period of time. We announced quite candidly that we were cutting back on our CapEx. Well, that is -- what that is, in recognition of is that we basically have done all the CapEx that we inherited because we picked up a lot of portfolios that weren't where they needed to be.

只有一件，也許顏色與您所問的差不多。就像我們的資本支出交易一樣，每個人都必須意識到，這家公司在相當長的時間內進行了大量收購。我們坦率地宣布，我們將削減資本支出。嗯，那是——那是因為我們承認我們基本上已經完成了我們繼承的所有資本支出，因為我們接手了許多並不在應有位置的投資組合。

A lot of stations needed transmitters that we picked up. A lot of stations have really, really not secure buildings that kind of imperilled some of our employees. We had a variety of CapEx. And so we naturally have finished that. We're not cutting it off and leaving our stations short of what they need. They're fully prepared to fight and win the battle that they have in their markets. We're very excited about that.

許多電台都需要我們接收的發射器。很多加油站的建築物確實非常不安全，這對我們的一些員工造成了危險。我們有各種各樣的資本支出。所以我們自然而然地就完成了。我們不會切斷供應，也不會讓我們的站點缺少所需的資源。他們已經做好了充分的準備去打贏他們的市場之戰。我們對此感到非常興奮。

(Operator Instructions) Steven Cahall, Wells Fargo.

（操作員指示）富國銀行的史蒂文·卡霍爾 (Steven Cahall)。

First, Hilton, I was wondering if you could just touch a little more on some of your comments around the M&A opportunity. It certainly looks like it could be an exciting next few years with what the FCC is doing.

首先，希爾頓，我想知道您是否可以稍微談談您對併購機會的一些評論。從聯邦通訊委員會的行動來看，未來幾年肯定會令人興奮。

You mentioned swaps as something that might be attractive to Gray. How do we think about those and what the financial benefits of those could be? And I know Assembly is close to home, figuratively and literally, you do have the large acreage there that you spoke about. Would you ever consider monetizing some of that to give you more dry powder for station M&A since you're at a point of a little higher leverage now?

您提到掉期交易可能對格雷有吸引力。我們如何看待這些以及這些能帶來哪些經濟利益？我知道大會離家很近，無論從象徵意義上還是從字面上來說，那裡確實有您所說的大片土地。由於您現在的槓桿率較高，您是否會考慮將其中一部分資金貨幣化，從而為電台併購提供更多資金？

And then just a second question on political. Some of the things stayed the same this last political cycle. Some of the things changed. As you look to 2026 and maybe have a little bigger fight against Connected TV to retain your share of political dollars, what can you kind of do this year and next year to be ready to maintain that share?

然後是關於政治的第二個問題。在最近的政治週期中，有些事情保持不變。有些事情發生了改變。展望 2026 年，您可能會與連網電視展開更大規模的鬥爭，以保留您在政治資金中的份額，那麼今年和明年您可以做些什麼來準備保持這一份額呢？

Well, I think we're going to have to pass these questions around to each other. Make sure I have -- I understand the question about what we're doing at Assembly, Steven. What were you asking?

好吧，我想我們必須把這些問題互相傳達。確保我已經——我理解關於我們在大會上做什麼的問題，史蒂文。你問的是什麼？

Yeag, if you would just monetize any of your unused acreage, just to give yourself some more dry powder for station M&A?

是的，如果您將任何未使用的土地貨幣化，只是為了給自己一些用於車站併購的資金？

I mean we don't foreclose any profitable and appropriate transaction, all right? So we're willing to listen to all kinds of folks. So the answer is, yes. Does that mean we're going to do that? No. But I'm not going to foreclose any kind of opportunity. It would depend on the individual sort of transaction. And we have considered a variety of things, all of which add great value to our company and to our shareholders.

我的意思是我們不會排除任何有利可圖且合適的交易，好嗎？因此我們願意傾聽各類人士的意見。所以答案是肯定的。這是否意味著我們會這麼做？不。但我不會放棄任何機會。這取決於具體交易類型。我們考慮了各種各樣的事情，所有這些都為我們的公司和股東增加了巨大的價值。

Really, I encourage you, Steven, and actually everybody on this call, and we really should probably one day have an investor meeting at our studios because I think when you actually physically see them, I think you're going to have a very positive view of what we've created and the value that it has for this company and will in the future.

真的，我鼓勵你，史蒂文，以及實際上在這次電話會議上的每個人，我們真的應該有一天在我們的工作室舉行一次投資者會議，因為我認為當你親眼看到它們時，你會對我們所創造的東西以及它對這家公司和未來的價值有一個非常積極的看法。

But a core business for us is the studio. We've got 80 acres, and we're going to be -- we may strike lots of deals and lots of different financially beneficial structures as we see what we can do with the remaining 80 acres.

但我們的核心業務是工作室。我們有 80 英畝土地，我們將會——我們可能會達成很多交易和很多不同的財務上有利的結構，看看我們能用剩下的 80 英畝做什麼。

Now with regard to political and Connected TV, Sandy, is that (multiple speakers)

現在關於政治和連網電視，桑迪，（多位發言者）

I'll just echo as Pat said in the comments. I mean, Steven, we're fortunate that with the strength of our stations, we have not only strong local reach on the linear broadcast side, but because of that also on all of our platforms. We have strong digital audiences, and we have strong connections in those community.

我只是想重複 Pat 在評論中說的話。我的意思是，史蒂文，我們很幸運，憑藉我們電台的實力，我們不僅在線性廣播方面擁有強大的本地影響力，而且因此在我們所有的平台上也擁有強大的影響力。我們擁有強大的數位受眾，並且與這些社群有著緊密的聯繫。

So we have a -- as Pat said, a dedicated team now actively working to focusing on ways to better leverage our strong digital audiences going forward. We know that that's going to continue, and we have a lot of opportunity in '26. We have a lot of political opportunity in all of our markets. So that is a high focus for us, and we expect that to grow certainly for Gray.

因此，正如帕特所說，我們有一個專門的團隊，正在積極致力於研究如何更好地利用我們強大的數位受眾。我們知道這種情況將會持續下去，而且我們在26年還有很多機會。我們所有的市場都有很多政治機會。因此，這是我們高度關注的重點，我們預期 Gray 在這方面的表現一定會成長。

Well, and then you asked a question about M&A and anyone in our room guys can opine as you see fit. But Steven, I mean, there's all kinds of opportunities. swaps, we will be looking at particularly if the FCC and the Department of Justice allows them because it's hard, particularly in smaller markets to make a decent buck with the expenses of insignificant local news.

好吧，然後你問了一個關於併購的問題，我們房間裡的任何人都可以根據自己的意願發表意見。但是史蒂文，我的意思是，有各種各樣的機會。互換，我們將特別關注聯邦通信委員會和司法部是否允許他們這樣做，因為這很難，特別是在較小的市場中，透過不重要的當地新聞費用來賺取可觀的收入。

One of the great benefits to our company that we have been articulating to the public markets literally forever, is that we have only bought number 1 new stations throughout our entire M&A efforts. And so we have a handful that are not at the levels that we want them to be. We've fixed that. I mean we have done that, and our news content is there, and it's focused, it's consistent and it's focused on local issues and local news. We don't do opinion journalism, and something I do want to say with regard to this.

我們公司最大的優勢之一就是我們一直在公開市場上宣傳，那就是在整個併購過程中，我們只購買了排名第一的新電台。因此，我們面臨的一些問題還沒有達到我們想要的水平。我們已經修復了這個問題。我的意思是我們已經做到了這一點，我們的新聞內容就在那裡，而且它是有重點的、一致的，並且專注於當地問題和當地新聞。我們不做觀點新聞，關於這一點我確實想說一些話。

I'm really proud of what John Decker -- I want to call him out because the new -- the White House has been calling on great television and our boy John Decker almost every day in the White House conferences, and I've been awfully proud of that. But adding duopolies in smaller markets, which is something that has been anathema, and in bigger markets, candidly, that has been anathema to regulations in the past is something that is going to be very helpful to maintaining a strong local news content.

我真的為約翰·德克爾感到自豪——我想向他致敬，因為新——白宮一直在電視上呼籲我們的孩子約翰·德克爾幾乎每天都出席白宮會議，我對此感到非常自豪。但在較小的市場中增加雙頭壟斷，這是一件令人厭惡的事情，而在較大的市場中，坦白說，這在過去一直是監管所不允許的，這對於維持強大的本地新聞內容非常有幫助。

And the government has got to get with it. So I think the M&A world will begin with swaps. But who knows, if the rules change dramatically, there could be broader combinations. And Gray is interested in all the of above.

政府必須採取行動。因此我認為併購世界將從掉期開始。但誰知道呢，如果規則發生巨大變化，可能會有更廣泛的組合。格雷對以上所有內容都感興趣。

(Operator Instructions) Alan Gould, Loop Capital.

（操作員指示）Alan Gould，Loop Capital。

Thanks for the investor deck earlier today. First, Jeff, in the investor deck, it shows a leverage goal of 4 times. You're about 5.5 times today, you usually go up in political -- usually increases in political years. How long until we get to 4 times?

感謝今天早些時候投資者的演講。首先，傑夫，在投資人簡報中，顯示的槓桿目標是 4 倍。今天你的職位大約是 5.5 倍，在政治上，你的職位通常會上升——通常在政治年份會增加。我們還要多久才能達到 4 倍？

And then the second question, I guess, for Kevin. Your Washington slide talking about deregulation. So besides the M&A and station swaps, what other deregulation opportunities are there? I know specifically, you also mentioned there the network-affiliate relationships. I assume that's with the vMVPDs, but what else will help benefit with deregulation?

我想，第二個問題是問凱文的。您在華盛頓的幻燈片上談到了放鬆管制。那麼除了併購和站點互換之外，還有哪些放鬆管制的機會呢？我具體知道，您也提到了網路附屬關係。我認為這與 vMVPD 有關，但還有什麼可以幫助放鬆管制？

I'll go first because it's easy. Our big goals from Washington are, as Hilton mentioned, relaxing the one of the market rule adopted in 1940. Secondly, the SEC shown some interest in the network-affiliate relationship, primarily around the networks complete control of our distribution on the virtual MVPDs, which are a sizable part of the distribution industry at this point.

我先來，因為這很簡單。正如希爾頓所提到的，華盛頓的重大目標是放鬆 1940 年採用的市場規則。其次，美國證券交易委員會對網路附屬關係表現出一定的興趣，主要是圍繞著網路對我們在虛擬 MVPD 上的分銷的完全控制，而虛擬 MVPD 目前是分銷行業相當大的一部分。

And then third, NextGenTV is a huge and important growth opportunity for this industry. And we've gotten some middling progress from the SEC in the last couple of years. We really need them to step forward and remove some of the shackles on our business regarding NextGen. So there's a lot that can happen there. So those are the big three pillars in Washington regulation.

第三，NextGenTV 對於這個行業來說是一個巨大且重要的成長機會。在過去幾年裡，我們從美國證券交易委員會獲得了一些中等進展。我們確實需要他們挺身而出，消除我們業務中與 NextGen 相關的一些束縛。所以那裡可能會發生很多事情。這就是華盛頓監管的三大支柱。

Yeah. And Alan, on your other question about getting to the 4 times, it's going to take a few years to get there. Obviously, the heavy cash flow years are the political years. Even in off years, we are cash flow positive. And so it's just not to the same extent. And so it will take us a few years to get there.

是的。艾倫，關於你提出的另一個問題，即實現 4 倍的目標，這需要幾年的時間。顯然，現金流豐厚的年份是政治年份。即使在不景氣的年份，我們的現金流也是正的。所以，程度不一樣。因此我們需要幾年的時間才能實現這一目標。

But I think there's clear line of sight after what we've done -- what we did in '24 and capturing a little bit of the discount, accelerated it in fourth quarter, accelerated some of the principal reduction, which then drives lower interest expense and starts to get the cash flow. The discretionary free cash flow to a spot where we have more ability to reduce the principal further.

但我認為，在我們所做的之後，我們的視線是清晰的——我們在 24 年所做的，獲得了一點折扣，在第四季度加速了折扣，加速了部分本金的減少，從而降低了利息支出，並開始獲得現金流。可自由支配的自由現金流流向我們更有能力進一步減少本金的地方。

Well, Alan, just let me tell you a little bit about history. When we closed on the Raycom transaction, one of the best deals in the history of broadcast, we got up to a [5.5%] and within 18 months, we got down to [3.5%]. And -- but that was at a time when the interest rates were very much lower than what we have had in the past.

好吧，艾倫，讓我來跟你講一點歷史。當我們完成 Raycom 交易時，這是廣播史上最好的交易之一，我們的收益率上升到了 [5.5%]，並且在 18 個月內，我們降至[3.5%]。而且——但那時的利率比過去的利率低得多。

Over the last couple of years since we finished the acquisition of Meredith and Quincy, we've seen during the Biden administration, a very rapid increase in interest rates, and it's been happy that the Fed -- happy for me at least, that the Fed has same fit to reduce interest rates over the course of -- or at the beginning of -- through 2024.

自從我們完成對梅雷迪斯和昆西的收購以來的過去幾年裡，我們看到拜登政府期間利率迅速上升，我很高興——至少對我來說很高興，美聯儲也有能力在 2024 年期間或年初降低利率。

I know they kind of paused at the beginning of 2025. But I think that we are in an interest rate diminishing area prospectively. And that's going to help us tremendously because this is a free cash flow generating business and Gray particularly is a robust free cash flow generator. So we look forward to getting it delevered in a lot of areas.

我知道他們在 2025 年初暫停了。但我認為，從未來來看，我們正處於利率下降的階段。這將對我們有很大幫助，因為這是一項自由現金流產生業務，而 Gray 尤其是一家強大的自由現金流產生器。因此我們期待它能在許多領域中推廣。

And with that, we will now turn the program back over to Mr. Hilton Howell for closing remarks.

現在，我們將節目交還給希爾頓·豪厄爾先生，請他致閉幕詞。

Thank you so much, operator, and everyone on this call. Listen, everybody, Gray is an exceptional company with an exciting future that will continue to evolve and invest to meet the opportunities in our ever changing, and really quite exciting industry.

非常感謝接線員以及通話中的每個人。各位，聽著，Gray 是一家擁有令人興奮的未來、卓越的公司，它將不斷發展和投資，以抓住我們這個不斷變化且非常令人興奮的行業中的機會。

Our revenues and cash flow are solid. We have walked the talk on reducing our debt. Our expenses have slowed significantly. Our investment in NextGenTV and Assembly Atlanta are poised to deliver. We are reaching new audiences with local sports, and we expect that the government will finally level the playing field for companies like Gray.

我們的收入和現金流穩健。我們已履行承諾，減少債務。我們的開支已大幅放緩。我們對 NextGenTV 和 Assembly Atlanta 的投資即將取得成果。我們正在透過本地體育賽事吸引新的觀眾，我們期望政府最終能為像 Gray 這樣的公司提供公平的競爭環境。

These are the main reasons why I personally remain buoyed and excited by our long-term prospects. We thank everyone for joining the call today. Operator, at this time, we ask that you close the line; and thank you all for being with us.

這些是我個人對我們的長期前景感到樂觀和興奮的主要原因。我們感謝大家今天參加電話會議。接線員，此時，我們要求您關閉線路；感謝大家與我們在一起。

And with that, ladies and gentlemen, this does conclude your call. You may now disconnect your lines, and thank you again for joining us today.

女士們、先生們，你們的通話到此結束。現在您可以斷開線路了，再次感謝您今天的加入我們。