Grindr Inc (GRND) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon. My name is Krista, and I'll be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the Grindr first-quarter 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) I would now like to turn the conference over to Tolu Adeofe, Grindr's Head of Investor Relations. Tolu, please go ahead.

午安.我叫克里斯塔，今天我將擔任您的會議主持人。現在，我歡迎大家參加 Grindr 2025 年第一季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）現在，我想將會議交給 Grindr 投資者關係主管 Tolu Adeofe。托魯，請繼續。

Thank you, moderator. Hello, and welcome to the Grindr earnings call for the first quarter of 2025. Today's call will be led by Grindr's CEO, George Arison; and CFO, Vanna Krantz. They'll make a few brief remarks, and then we'll open it up for questions. Please note, Grindr released its shareholder letter this afternoon, and this is available on the SEC's website and Grindr's Investor page at investors.grindr.com.

謝謝主持人。您好，歡迎參加 Grindr 2025 年第一季財報電話會議。今天的電話會議將由 Grindr 的執行長 George Arison 和財務長 Vanna Krantz 主持。他們會發表一些簡短的評論，然後我們會開始提問。請注意，Grindr 今天下午發布了其股東信，可在美國證券交易委員會的網站和 Grindr 的投資者頁面 investors.grindr.com 上查閱。

Before we begin, I will remind everyone that during this call, we may discuss our outlook, future performance and future prospects. You should not rely on forward-looking statements as predictions of future events. These forward-looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties, and our actual results could differ materially from the views expressed today.

在我們開始之前，我要提醒大家，在這次電話會議中，我們可能會討論我們的展望、未來的表現和未來的前景。您不應依賴前瞻性陳述來預測未來事件。這些前瞻性陳述受風險和不確定性的影響，我們的實際結果可能與今天表達的觀點有重大差異。

Some of the risks that could cause our actual results to differ from views expressed in our forward-looking statements have been set forth in our earnings release and our periodic reports filed with the SEC, including our annual report on Form 10-K for the year ended December 31, 2024.

一些可能導致我們的實際結果與前瞻性陳述中表達的觀點不同的風險已在我們的收益報告和向美國證券交易委員會提交的定期報告中列出，包括截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日的 10-K 表年度報告。

During today's call, we will also present both GAAP and non-GAAP financial measures. Additional disclosures regarding non-GAAP measures, including a reconciliation of these non-GAAP financial measures to their most closely comparable GAAP financial measure, are included in the earnings release we issued today, which has been posted on the Investor Relations page of Grindr's website and in Grindr's filings with the SEC.

在今天的電話會議中，我們還將介紹 GAAP 和非 GAAP 財務指標。關於非公認會計準則 (non-GAAP) 指標的額外揭露，包括這些非公認會計準則 (non-GAAP) 財務指標與最接近的可比較公認會計準則 (GAAP) 財務指標的對賬，都包含在我們今天發布的收益報告中，該報告已發佈在 Grindr 網站的投資者關係頁面和 Grindr 向美國證券交易委員會 (SEC) 提交的證券交易委員會中。

With that, I'll turn it over to George.

說完這些，我就把麥克風交給喬治。

Thanks, Tolu. Welcome, everyone. We're kicking off 2025 with exceptional Q1 results and strong momentum in product development. Early data from several initiatives and testing give us confidence to raise our full year outlook to 26% or greater revenue growth and at least 43% adjusted EBITDA margin.

謝謝，托魯。歡迎大家。我們以出色的第一季業績和強勁的產品開發勢頭開啟了 2025 年。多項措施和測試的早期數據讓我們有信心將全年營收成長預期提高到 26% 或更高，調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率至少達到 43%。

Our Q1 shareholder letter dives into why 2025 is such a pivotal year for Grindr. We're building one of the world's most advanced consumer tech platforms and the beloved community app that integrates AI throughout the experience.

我們第一季的股東信深入探討了為什麼 2025 年對 Grindr 來說是如此關鍵的一年。我們正在建立世界上最先進的消費科技平台之一，以及在整個體驗過程中整合人工智慧的深受喜愛的社群應用程式。

At last year's Investor Day, we outlined a bold road map centered on three pillars: first, deepening intent-based offerings in our core connections use case; second, creating an AI architecture layer to power the app for the long term; and third, building the digital neighborhood. Across all three, we're executing on or ahead of schedule.

在去年的投資者日，我們概述了以三大支柱為中心的大膽路線圖：首先，深化我們核心連接用例中基於意圖的產品；其次，創建一個人工智慧架構層，為應用程式提供長期支援；第三，建立數位社群。在這三項計劃中，我們都按計劃或提前執行。

In the first, connections pillar, our single biggest current effort is Right Now, which significantly expands our apps surface area for all users and has performed strongly in testing. We've now rolled it out to 17 major cities, including New York, Miami, London, Paris and Rio. In these markets, 20% to 25% of our users engage with Right Now weekly, and we've begun monetizing it in select regions.

在第一個連接支柱中，我們目前最大的努力是 Right Now，它顯著擴展了我們應用程式面向所有使用者的表面積，並且在測試中表現強勁。目前，我們已將其推廣到 17 個主要城市，包括紐約、邁阿密、倫敦、巴黎和里約。在這些市場中，我們每週有 20% 到 25% 的用戶使用 Right Now，我們已經開始在部分地區將其貨幣化。

The success is a key driver behind our updated guidance. We expect to expand right now to nearly 50% of our weekly active users over the next several weeks. Where it is live, all users, including free users, can take advantage of Right Now even with [monetization].

成功是我們更新指導意見的關鍵驅動因素。我們預計未來幾週內每週活躍用戶數量將擴大到近 50%。上線後，所有用戶（包括免費用戶）都可以享受 Right Now 的優惠，即使[貨幣化]。

On AI, we're committed to making Grindr an AI native leader among consumer apps. Leveraging our distribution, user base and vast data, we are creating previously unimagined product experiences. In January, we announced a suite of AI native products, including now in testing with [1/4 of unlimited] users.

在人工智慧方面，我們致力於將 Grindr 打造成消費性應用中人工智慧原生的領導者。利用我們的分銷、用戶群和大量數據，我們正在創造以前無法想像的產品體驗。今年 1 月，我們發布了一套 AI 原生產品，其中包括目前正在測試的 [1/4 無限制] 用戶。

A-list applies our architecture layer to users chat activity over 130 billion chats annually or 50 per daily user, providing smarter, best fit priority connections to each user, coupled with thoughtful, rich insights from conversations that have already taken place. Sparing uses the effort to manually curate favorites or find other ways to track profiles they like, A-list automatically surfaces the connections that matter most based on chat history.

A-list 將我們的架構層應用於用戶聊天活動（每年超過 1300 億次聊天或每個用戶每天 50 次聊天），為每個用戶提供更智能、最適合的優先級連接，並結合已經發生的對話提供深思熟慮的豐富見解。除了花費精力手動整理收藏夾或尋找其他方式來追蹤他們喜歡的個人資料之外，A-list 還會根據聊天歷史自動顯示最重要的聯絡人。

I encourage everyone to take a look at the demo linked in our shareholder letter posted on our website. Even in this early version, it's an amazing product, giving us an early view into the incredible age of consumer products we will experience with Gen AI. Our letter also details the steps we're taking to prioritize user control and transparency since privacy remains nonnegotiable as we build AI products.

我鼓勵大家看看我們網站上發布的股東信中連結的演示。即使在這個早期版本中，它也是一款令人驚嘆的產品，讓我們提前看到了我們將透過 Gen AI 體驗到的令人難以置信的消費性產品時代。我們的信函還詳細說明了我們為優先考慮用戶控制和透明度而採取的措施，因為當我們建立人工智慧產品時，隱私仍然是不可協商的。

For our third pillar, the Gayborhood, a soft beta launched Woodwork, a men's health subscription service designed by gay people for gay people. Partnering with a telehealth provider OpenLoop, Woodwork offers a compounded ED medication relevant to close to 30% of our users who have purchased ED medications in the last year and 60% who have considered using supplements or medicines for their sexual health.

對於我們的第三個支柱，Gayborhood，我們推出了軟測試版 Woodwork，這是一項由同性戀者為同性戀者設計的男性健康訂閱服務。Woodwork 與遠距醫療提供者 OpenLoop 合作，提供一種複合 ED 藥物，與去年購買過 ED 藥物的近 30% 的用戶和 60% 考慮使用補充劑或藥物來改善性健康的用戶相關。

This capital-light, low execution-risk initiative is a 0 to 1 effort, a true [seed] stage start-up within Grindr. As a start-up, the Woodwork team is focused on learning, and it will be several quarters before we have meaningful updates to share.

這個輕資本、低執行風險的計劃是從 0 到 1 的努力，是 Grindr 內部真正的 [種子] 階段新創公司。作為一家新創公司，Woodwork 團隊專注於學習，我們還需要幾個季度才能有有意義的更新可以分享。

Today, thanks to our team's intense focus and discipline, the pace of product development at Grindr is relentless. Over our first two years as a public company, we've laid a strong foundation and proved we can deliver. Our next growth phase will come from the search in product in feature launches.

如今，由於我們團隊的高度專注和紀律，Grindr 的產品開發步伐非常快。作為一家上市公司，我們在前兩年奠定了堅實的基礎，並證明了我們能夠實現目標。我們的下一個成長階段將來自產品功能發布的搜尋。

To put this in perspective, in 2024, we launched eight new products and initiatives. In 2025, we're targeting over 40 across core use cases, AI and the gayborhood. As these roll out, we'll be focused on optimizing our portfolio, balancing user experience with how we merchandise our growing set of offerings.

為了更好地理解這一點，我們在 2024 年推出了八項新產品和新措施。到 2025 年，我們的目標是在核心用例、人工智慧和同性戀社群方面實現 40 多個目標。隨著這些產品的推出，我們將專注於優化我們的產品組合，平衡用戶體驗和我們如何推銷我們不斷增長的產品。

I'm thrilled by our team's ability to execute on this ambitious strategy in such a nimble way. It is inspiring to watch. We are honored to be building these experiences for our fantastic community.

我很高興我們的團隊能夠如此靈活地執行這項雄心勃勃的策略。觀看它令人鼓舞。我們很榮幸能夠為我們出色的社區創造這些體驗。

Now over to Vanna.

現在輪到 Vanna 了。

Thank you, George, and hello, everyone. Grindr is off to a strong start this year. In the first quarter, total revenue grew 25% year-over-year to $94 million, and the adjusted EBITDA margin reached 43% to $41 million.

謝謝你，喬治，大家好。Grindr 今年開局強勁。第一季度，總營收年增25%至9,400萬美元，調整後EBITDA利潤率達43%至4,100萬美元。

Direct revenue increased 24% year-over-year to $80 million, driven by the continued demand for Unlimited Weekly, which launched late in Q1 of 2024; and Extra Weekly, which benefited this quarter from the international rollout of our recommendations feature, which shows more quality profiles. This machine learning-based enhancement shows profiles to our users based on relevancy, in addition to geolocation, which helps improve discovery.

直接營收年增 24% 至 8,000 萬美元，這得益於 2024 年第一季末推出的「無限週刊」 (Unlimited Weekly) 的持續需求；以及本季受益於我們在全球推出的推薦功能（可展示更多優質資料）的「額外週刊」 (Extra Weekly)。這種基於機器學習的增強功能除了地理位置之外，還根據相關性向我們的用戶顯示個人資料，這有助於改善發現。

Summarizing our key user metrics, average monthly active users increased 7% over the prior year to 14.6 million. Average paying users in the quarter increased 16% over the prior year to 1.2 million, which brings paid penetration to 8% for the quarter. And our average direct revenue per paying user increased 8% over the prior year to $22.86 this quarter.

總結我們的主要用戶指標，平均每月活躍用戶比前一年增加了 7%，達到 1,460 萬。本季平均付費用戶比上年同期成長 16%，達到 120 萬，這使得本季付費普及率達到 8%。本季度，我們每位付費用戶的平均直接收入比上年增長了 8%，達到 22.86 美元。

Indirect revenue for Q1 grew 26% year-over-year to $14 million. In Q1, we introduced both native and rewarded ad formats, expanded our network of third-party ad partners and further optimized our ad tech. We are encouraged by the early results and expect these initiatives to continue to ramp in 2025.

第一季間接營收年增 26% 至 1,400 萬美元。在第一季度，我們推出了原生廣告和獎勵廣告形式，擴大了第三方廣告合作夥伴網絡，並進一步優化了我們的廣告技術。我們對早期成果感到鼓舞，並預計這些舉措將在 2025 年繼續推進。

Moving to expenses and profitability, our operating expenses in Q1 of 2025, excluding $25 million in cost of revenue, was $44 million, up 21% year-over-year, primarily driven by compensation-related expenses. Adjusted EBITDA for the quarter was $41 million or 43% of revenue compared to $32 million or 42% of revenue a year ago. And net income was $27 million for the first quarter, representing 29% of revenue compared to a net loss of $9 million in the same period last year.

談到費用和獲利能力，我們 2025 年第一季的營運費用（不包括 2,500 萬美元的收入成本）為 4,400 萬美元，年增 21%，主要原因是薪酬相關費用。本季調整後的 EBITDA 為 4,100 萬美元，佔營收的 43%，而去年同期為 3,200 萬美元，佔營收的 42%。第一季淨收入為 2,700 萬美元，佔營收的 29%，而去年同期淨虧損為 900 萬美元。

As we noted in our Q4 shareholder letter, on February 24, we completed the redemption of all outstanding unexercised warrants. As a result, beginning in Q2 2025, there will no longer be a revaluation of the warrant liability. Hence, we expect to report positive GAAP EPS going forward.

正如我們在第四季度股東信中指出的那樣，2 月 24 日，我們完成了所有未行使認股權證的贖回。因此，從 2025 年第二季開始，將不再重新評估認股權證負債。因此，我們預計未來將報告正的 GAAP EPS。

Turning to cash flow and the balance sheet, in the first quarter, Grindr generated free cash flow of just over $23 million and ended the quarter with approximately $256 million in cash and cash equivalents. Our gross leverage was 1.9x the last 12 months adjusted EBITDA. During the first quarter, Grindr repurchased $141 million in common stock. At the end of Q1, we had $359 million remaining under the repurchase program.

談到現金流和資產負債表，在第一季度，Grindr 產生的自由現金流略高於 2,300 萬美元，本季末的現金和現金等價物約為 2.56 億美元。我們的總槓桿是過去 12 個月調整後 EBITDA 的 1.9 倍。第一季度，Grindr 回購了價值 1.41 億美元的普通股。截至第一季末，我們的回購計畫剩餘資金為 3.59 億美元。

Finally, as George mentioned, we are raising our guidance for the full year. We now expect revenue growth of 26% or greater and an adjusted EBITDA margin of at least 43%. This updated outlook reflects the strength of our business model and the expectations of our ability to drive enhanced monetization and operational efficiency. We remain focused on executing against our product road map.

最後，正如喬治所提到的，我們正在提高全年業績預期。我們現在預計營收成長率將達到 26% 或更高，調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率將達到至少 43%。這項更新的展望反映了我們商業模式的實力以及對我們提高貨幣化和營運效率的能力的期望。我們仍然專注於執行我們的產品路線圖。

And with that, operator, we'll now take questions.

接線員，我們現在來回答問題。

(Operator Instructions) John Blackledge, TD Cowen.

（操作員指示） John Blackledge，TD Cowen。

It's Logan on for John. Maybe on the higher '25 guidance, could you tell us what changed since the initial forecast? And maybe what the biggest drivers were of the higher revenue growth and EBITDA growth targets? And then longer term, should we think any differently about your 2027 revenue and EBITDA targets? And then I just have one follow-up as well.

洛根 (Logan) 代替約翰 (John)。也許在更高的 25 指導方針上，您能告訴我們自最初的預測以來發生了什麼變化嗎？那麼，營收成長和 EBITDA 成長目標提高的最大驅動力是什麼？那麼從長遠來看，我們是否應該以不同的方式看待您 2027 年的收入和 EBITDA 目標？然後我還有一個後續問題。

Sure. Thanks, Logan. Thanks for the question. As we said in March, in the first half of the year, we have a few ongoing tests of initiatives, which, if successful, could have a positive impact on 2025 revenue and on EBITDA. And some of those tests have come in positive over the last few weeks. That, coupled with right now, early monetization are really impacting our guidance in a positive way.

當然。謝謝，洛根。謝謝你的提問。正如我們在三月所說的那樣，在今年上半年，我們正在進行一些舉措的測試，如果成功，可能會對 2025 年的收入和 EBITDA 產生積極影響。過去幾週，一些測試結果呈陽性。再加上目前的早期貨幣化，這些都對我們的業績預期產生了正面的影響。

We move pretty fast at Grindr. So nine weeks is a pretty long time since March earnings. And as we said often, we guide to what we have line of sight to, and our raise today is a reflection of our increased confidence.

我們在 Grindr 上進展非常快。因此，自從三月獲利以來，九週已經是相當長的時間了。正如我們經常說的那樣，我們將引導我們關注的事物，而我們今天的加薪反映了我們信心的增強。

We also saw the FX tailwind benefit us in the latter half of March. And this really dovetails into our EBITDA guide. And now that we're midway through Q2, we anticipate Q2 looking a lot like Q1 with respect to EBITDA. I'd just add a couple of thoughts on this.

我們也看到外匯順風在三月下半月對我們有利。這與我們的 EBITDA 指南完全吻合。現在我們已進入第二季的中期，我們預計第二季的 EBITDA 將與第一季非常相似。我只想就此補充幾點想法。

In the letter, we talked significantly about the product work that we have underway, 40 new initiatives this year. And several of those are AI related. We're investing in becoming an AI-first company, and with that can come some elevated costs with respect to cloud.

在信中，我們詳細討論了我們正在進行的產品工作，今年有 40 項新措施。其中一些與人工智慧有關。我們正在投資成為一家人工智慧優先的公司，因此雲端運算方面的成本可能會增加。

So in the past, we've also talked about managing discretionary spend in the second half based on how we see the year coming together. That's still the case. George, do you want to add a little bit about the Apple Store policy?

因此，過去我們也曾根據今年情勢的預測來討論如何管理下半年的可自由支配支出。至今仍是如此。喬治，你想補充一些有關 Apple Store 政策的資訊嗎？

Yes, I'm happy to talk about that. So obviously, we know that a lot of users want to have direct pay. And assuming that the court ruling stays in place, that will be a big benefit for users of Grindr and our products.

是的，我很高興談論這個。顯然，我們知道很多用戶希望直接付款。假設法院的裁決能夠維持，那麼對於 Grindr 和我們產品的使用者來說，這將是一個巨大的優勢。

For us to be able to enable direct payment, we have to integrate with a provider and we also need to build some capabilities internally to handle that process, both from [charges] point of view, customer service, et cetera. But it is something that's on our road map, and we will probably do it to enable our users to be able to have direct pay abilities.

為了能夠實現直接支付，我們必須與供應商整合，我們還需要在內部建立一些能力來處理流程，包括從[收費]的角度、客戶服務等方面。但這是我們路線圖上的事情，我們可能會這樣做，以使我們的用戶能夠擁有直接支付能力。

Does that answer your question?

這回答了你的問題嗎？

Yes, definitely. And then the Woodwork announcement is super exciting. Could you maybe just -- I'm just curious as to how you maybe plan to integrate it into the Grindr ecosystem over time? And then how it might open up Grindr to other kind of health care-related offerings potentially in the future?

是的，當然。然後 Woodwork 的公告非常令人興奮。您是否可以——我只是好奇您計劃如何將其融入 Grindr 生態系統？那麼，未來 Grindr 有可能提供哪些其他類型的醫療保健相關服務呢？

Totally, I just want to make sure on the Apple question. That is not in any way represented in our guidance. And so it's not -- it would be completely additive to that if that happened. But since we have not done it, we can't really speak to what will happen with it since we tend to only guide to what we have a very clear line of sight to.

完全正確，我只是想確認一下有關蘋果的問題。我們的指導中沒有體現這一點。所以事實並非如此——如果發生這種情況，那將完全是附加的。但由於我們還沒有這樣做過，我們無法真正說出它會發生什麼，因為我們傾向於只引導我們非常清楚的視線。

With regards to Woodwork, yes, we're really excited about Woodwork. I think it's a really great brand that the team has created. I think it really speaks to the Grindr user base. It was built by gay men for gay men. And I think it's really good from that point of view.

關於木工，是的，我們對木工感到非常興奮。我認為這個團隊創造的品牌真的很棒。我認為這確實代表了 Grindr 用戶群。它是由同性戀者為同性戀者建造的。從這個角度來看我認為這真的很好。

I want to really emphasize that Woodwork is in the earliest stages of a start-up on getting going, right? It's very much a [series] seed, maybe even an angel-stage company inside Grindr with a tiny team working on this full time and very limited amount of resources being allocated to it at this stage.

我想特別強調的是，Woodwork 正處於新創企業的早期階段，對嗎？它在很大程度上是一個種子輪融資，甚至可能是 Grindr 內部的天使輪融資公司，由一個小團隊全職負責此項工作，並且現階段分配給它的資源非常有限。

That's done on purpose because I want the team to be very much operating in a start-up learning mode, like a very early stage set of wood, where literally every day is critical for their survival, and they want to work as hard as possible to achieve success. I think grit is really critical to new things being started, and that's what we're trying to have here.

這樣做是有目的的，因為我希望團隊能夠以初創學習模式運作，就像一組處於早期階段的木材，每一天對他們的生存都至關重要，他們希望盡可能努力地取得成功。我認為毅力對於新事物的開始至關重要，而這正是我們在這裡努力追求的。

Obviously, we can definitely see opportunities to integrate with what Grindr does as well. Simple things like subscribe to Woodwork and then you also get a discount on the Grindr subscription, could be one opportunity. Integration of payments between Woodwork subscription and Grindr is another possibility. And there are other things like that, that we can do.

顯然，我們也能看到與 Grindr 功能整合的機會。簡單的事情，例如訂閱 Woodwork，然後您還可以獲得 Grindr 訂閱的折扣，這可能是一個機會。Woodwork 訂閱和 Grindr 之間的支付整合是另一種可能性。我們還可以做其他類似的事情。

And then more broadly, Woodwork is our health care and wellness brand. It is not just an erectile dysfunction medication brand. We will be adding other treatments to Woodwork. And so we will be putting a broad spectrum of things.

更廣泛地說，Woodwork 是我們的醫療保健和保健品牌。它不僅僅是一個勃起功能障礙藥物品牌。我們將為木工添加其他處理方法。因此，我們將推出廣泛的產品。

We know that a fairly large number of users have already used [BD] medication in the past that's detailed in the shareholder letter. Another very large portion has thought about or considered using it in the future. And so there -- that's a strong kind of advantage to us.

我們知道，相當多的用戶過去已經使用過 [BD] 藥物，股東信中詳細說明了這一點。另外很大一部分人已經考慮過或考慮過在未來使用它。所以這對我們來說是一個很大的優勢。

But again, Woodwork is a very early-stage business for us, very much a kind of 0 to 1 proposition. And I would not expect any updates on Woodwork for the next several quarters, nor is it in any way assumed in our guidance for this year.

但對我們來說，木工是一個非常早期的業務，很大程度上是一種從 0 到 1 的命題。我預計未來幾季 Woodwork 不會有任何更新，我們今年的指導中也沒有以任何方式假設這一點。

Andrew Marok, Raymond James.

安德魯馬羅克、雷蒙詹姆斯。

Raj calling in here for Andrew Marok at Raymond James. Congrats on the quarter. I just wanted to ask a couple of questions.

Raj 來這裡是為了 Raymond James 的 Andrew Marok 而來。恭喜本季取得佳績。我只是想問幾個問題。

First, so one of your competitors this morning talked about increasing investment into initiatives and features addressed at the gay male community. How do you see Grindr's defensibility of its position? And to the extent that Grindr may have not served a specific need, how is your product lineup addressing that?

首先，今天上午，你們的一位競爭對手談到要增加針對男同性戀群體的措施和功能的投資。您如何看待 Grindr 對其地位的捍衛能力？如果 Grindr 未能滿足特定需求，您的產品系列將如何解決這個問題？

Thanks for the question. I've spoken many times in the past that we know people are going to use many different products, and we're totally fine with them doing it. And if someone wants to challenge Grindr, you should challenge Grindr from the position of weakness rather than a position of strength, where Grindr is very strong.

謝謝你的提問。我過去曾多次說過，我們知道人們會使用許多不同的產品，我們完全同意他們這樣做。如果有人想挑戰 Grindr，你應該從弱點位置挑戰 Grindr，而不是從優勢位置挑戰，因為 Grindr 的優勢位置非常強大。

I've not really seen any one of our larger competitors do that. And so I think we really need to understand what gay men want and understand gay culture in an intimate way to be able to do that, and that's not been something that we've been seeing from our peers.

我還沒有真正看到我們的任何一家大型競爭對手這樣做。因此，我認為我們確實需要了解男同性戀者想要什麼，並以一種親密的方式了解同性戀文化，才能做到這一點，而這並不是我們從同齡人身上看到的。

What we do know is that our users very much want and gay men in the country really want -- or sorry, around the world really want, features in Grindr that address their specific needs and intentions. And that's why our entire product strategy for the core of Grindr has built around intent.

我們所知道的是，我們的用戶非常想要，而且全國的男同性戀者也真正想要——或者抱歉，全世界的男同性戀者都真正想要 Grindr 中的功能，以滿足他們的特定需求和意圖。這就是為什麼我們針對 Grindr 核心的整個產品策略都是圍繞著意圖建構的。

Right Now is the first major launch of ours that is very intent focused, which is for people who want an immediate connection with somebody, whether it's today or tomorrow or in the very near term. Right Now is a way to get that more easily than previously was possible. The response from users to that has been amazing. We know that 20% to 25% of our users are using Right Now on a weekly basis, at least once a week.

「Right Now」 是我們首次推出的以意圖為重點的重大產品，它針對的是那些想要立即與某人建立聯繫的人，無論是今天、明天還是在短期內。現在就可以比以前更輕鬆地實現這一目標。用戶對此的反應令人驚嘆。我們知道，20% 到 25% 的用戶每週都會使用 Right Now，至少每週一次。

Shares of location are about twice what they are in normal conversations, which indicates the likelihood of meeting between people is much higher, and that's really positive. And so we're really happy with that launch and how that's gone.

位置共享大約是正常對話的兩倍，這表明人們之間見面的可能性要高得多，這確實是積極的。因此，我們對這次發布以及其進展感到非常高興。

But that's just one piece of our intention-based road map. Helping people do a better job identifying people who would be good partners for them for the long term from the relationship perspective is the other one that we need to launch as well, and that's something we're working on. It's also on the road map from what we spoke about at Investor Day.

但這只是我們基於意圖的路線圖的一部分。幫助人們從關係角度更好地識別長期的好伴侶是我們需要進行的另一項工作，這也是我們正在努力的事情。這也是我們在投資人日上討論的路線圖。

Again, we know that among gay men 35 and under, half of them want to be in a long-term monogamous relationship. That's a really big change from how gay men thought about things even 10 years ago and certainly 20 years ago when I was younger, and we need to serve them really well in that regard.

再次，我們知道，在 35 歲及以下的男同性戀者中，有一半人希望維持長期的一夫一妻制關係。這與 10 年前，甚至是 20 年前我年輕時男同性戀者的想法相比，有了很大的變化，在這方面我們需要為他們提供很好的服務。

Grindr is by far the primary place where gay relationships today in America are formed. About between three to four game relations in the US are formed on Grindr like right now, so it's a huge percentage. But I think we can do a better job at that than we do, and that's part of what we're trying to do.

Grindr 是目前美國同性戀關係建立的主要場所。目前，美國大約有三到四種遊戲關係是在 Grindr 上建立的，因此這一比例很高。但我認為我們可以做得更好，這也是我們正在努力做的事情的一部分。

So I think our product road map is really robust from both the intentions perspective and a bunch of other pieces. Happy to talk about those. And so I think our users will be quite happy with what they're seeing coming down the pipe.

因此我認為我們的產品路線圖無論從意圖角度還是從其他方面來看都是非常健全的。很高興談論這些。所以我認為我們的用戶會對他們所看到的結果感到非常滿意。

Awesome. Really appreciate the color. For a follow-up, if I may. So I heard a bit from some of your peers that there's a little bit of macro weakness in certain segments of the audiences. How is that picture from your seat? And how are you thinking about potential impact from a broader economic slowdown?

驚人的。真的很欣賞這個顏色。如果可以的話，請進行後續追蹤。我從你們的一些同行那裡聽說，某些受眾群體存在一些宏觀弱點。您覺得這景象怎麼樣？您如何看待更大範圍的經濟放緩可能帶來的影響？

Yes. Thanks for the question. We are very fortunate that we've not seen any consumer ecosystem weakness that peers have discussed. Obviously, we are tracking that to make sure that it's not impactful. But so far, we've not seen anything, and we feel really good about things. That's probably part of why we feel confident raising guidance on revenue and on EBITDA as much as we have.

是的。謝謝你的提問。我們非常幸運，沒有看到同儕討論過的任何消費者生態系統弱點。顯然，我們正在追蹤這一點，以確保它不會產生影響。但到目前為止，我們還沒有看到任何變化，我們對情況感覺非常好。這或許也是我們有信心大幅調高收入和EBITDA預期的原因之一。

We've talked before that gay men tend to have higher education levels than the straight counterparts, by about 2x in the number of JDs, PhDs, MBAs, MDs in the population. They also have much higher disposable income, both because they earn a lot more and then a lot of them don't have children, which gives them more disposable income.

我們之前談過，男同性戀者的教育程度往往高於異性戀者，擁有法學博士、哲學博士、工商管理碩士和醫學博士的人口數量大約是異性戀者的兩倍。他們的可支配收入也高得多，因為他們的收入更高，而且他們中的許多人沒有孩子，這讓他們有更多的可支配收入。

And so I think even if we were to have an economic kind of negative economic trends for our user base, they're going to be able to withstand that a lot better than an average kind of set of the population. And so I think that's really important to kind of remember.

因此，我認為，即使我們的用戶群面臨經濟方面的負面趨勢，他們也能夠比一般人群更好地承受這種影響。所以我認為記住這一點非常重要。

And then lastly, we are not a place for politics and economics. We're a place where people come to escape that. People come to Grindr for fun, adventurous, sexy experiences. And that's why in part, they spend as much time as they do every day on Grindr.

最後，我們這裡不是討論政治和經濟的地方。我們是一個讓人們逃避這一切的地方。人們來到 Grindr 是為了尋求樂趣、冒險和性感的體驗。這就是為什麼他們每天花大量時間在 Grindr 上的原因之一。

And so in a situation of economic weakness, if there's a lot of promotion going on, you could very well envision a world where people are spending more time on Grindr because they are dealing with all those things kind of off Grindr and they come here to escape that and be dealing with something else. So, so far, we feel really good about what's happening with Grindr while whatever might be happening in the economy, and I do not really anticipate any impact from that to us this year.

因此，在經濟疲軟的情況下，如果進行大量促銷，你可以很好地想像這樣一個世界：人們會在 Grindr 上花費更多時間，因為他們要處理 Grindr 之外的所有事情，而他們來到這裡是為了逃避這些事情並處理其他事情。因此，到目前為止，我們對 Grindr 的進展感到非常滿意，無論經濟狀況如何，我並不認為今年它會對我們產生任​​何影響。

Eric Sheridan, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的艾瑞克·謝裡丹。

Hope all is well with the team. As you look at the business right now, what -- how you would characterize the scope for growth on users, engagement and monetization, if you were to break the business down geographically between the international opportunity and what you're seeing in the US, as you look out over the next 12 to 18 months?

希望團隊一切順利。當您審視目前的業務時，如果您按地理區域將業務劃分為國際機會和美國市場，展望未來 12 到 18 個月，您會如何描述用戶、參與度和貨幣化的成長範圍？

Sure. Happy to do that. So from the perspective of kind of user growth everywhere, obviously, it's a big focus for us all the time. Grindr is by far the best known gay brand in the world and we have a lot of users in lots and lots of places, but there is a lot of opportunity to drive more people to use Grindr.

當然。很高興這樣做。因此，從各地用戶成長的角度來看，這顯然一直是我們關注的重點。Grindr 是迄今為止世界上最知名的同性戀品牌，我們在許多地方擁有大量用戶，但仍有許多機會可以吸引更多人使用 Grindr。

The way we tend to think about that is product-led growth, right? So we create new products, and then those products are what brings people who want to use Grindr. We -- that's partly why we launched Right Now, where that is a significant kind of user growth expansion opportunity for people who previously might have been using Grindr more for those kind of immediate connections.

我們傾向於認為這是產品主導的成長，對嗎？因此，我們創造了新的產品，然後這些產品吸引了想要使用 Grindr 的人。這就是我們推出 Right Now 的部分原因，對於之前可能更多地使用 Grindr 進行即時聯繫的人來說，這是一個重要的用戶成長擴展機會。

And over time, they have started to use it less because there are other -- too many other things that are going on in Grindr at the same time. This intentions-based kind of solution with Right Now gives them a chance to be on Grindr just for right now and nothing else, which we think is great.

隨著時間的推移，他們開始減少使用它，因為 Grindr 上同時進行著太多其他的事情。Right Now 的這個基於意圖的解決方案讓他們有機會只在此刻使用 Grindr，而不做其他事情，我們認為這很棒。

Same thing with relationships. That's, again, a user growth kind of opportunity that we think is significant because we do know from our users that yes, they know that Grindr has the critical mass of users, but we don't have features for relationships, so they consider oftentimes to go to a different product, but then frequently come back to Grindr because we have the critical mass.

人際關係也一樣。再次，我們認為這是一個重要的用戶成長機會，因為我們確實從用戶那裡了解到，是的，他們知道 Grindr 擁有足夠的用戶，但我們沒有建立關係的功能，所以他們經常考慮使用其他產品，但後來又經常回到 Grindr，因為我們擁有足夠的用戶。

And so we don't want them going through that. We want them to actually stay with us in our ecosystem, looking for whatever relationship they might be looking for. So I think that's all kind of -- a lot of things that we're doing in product are very much driven with the idea towards creating more user growth.

所以我們不希望他們經歷這些。我們希望它們能夠真正留在我們的生態系統中，尋找它們可能尋求的任何關係。所以我認為這就是——我們在產品上所做的很多事情都是為了創造更多的用戶成長。

And then with regards to international and domestic, we think there's plenty of opportunity to grow our domestic user base. Obviously, we have an incredible brand in the US, 95% brand awareness unaided, but not everybody who is in the community is using Grindr. And so we do believe that there is opportunity to grow MAU here.

至於國際和國內，我們認為有足夠的機會擴大我們的國內用戶群。顯然，我們在美國擁有令人難以置信的品牌，無需任何幫助，品牌知名度就達到 95%，但並非社群中的每個人都在使用 Grindr。因此我們確實相信這裡有機會增加 MAU。

But obviously, there's a lot more opportunity internationally. For one, we are less known abroad, right? We only have -- based on the countries we have tested, we're not tested everywhere, roughly about 60% awareness in a lot of those countries. Now people who know us use us all the time. But people who don't know us, they can't use us because they don't know us. And so we need to do more work on that front.

但顯然，國際上有更多的機會。首先，我們在國外不太有名，對嗎？我們只有──根據我們測試過的國家，我們並沒有在所有地方進行測試，在許多國家大約有 60% 的認知度。現在認識我們的人常常會利用我們。但不認識我們的人就無法利用我們，因為他們不認識我們。所以我們需要在這方面做更多工作。

There's also opportunity to localize the app a lot better, starting with kind of what we do in the App Store and localizing that for given locations as well as what we do with the product itself. There's been very little localization of the product ever in any way.

我們還有機會更好地在地化應用程序，從我們在 App Store 中所做的事情開始，並根據特定位置進行本地化，以及我們對產品本身所做的事情。該產品的在地化程度極低。

That's not something that we are kind of necessarily working on in 2025. But those are the kinds of things that we are thinking about for the future. At Investor Day, we said that international growth is a long-term opportunity for us, and we still very much believe that. And it's something that we're going to invest in over time because we do think it's a big opportunity.

這並不是我們在 2025 年必須要做的事。但這些都是我們正在為未來考慮的事情。在投資者日，我們表示國際成長對我們來說是一個長期機遇，我們仍然非常相信這一點。我們將持續投資於此，因為我們確實認為這是一個巨大的機會。

Just to add, our conversion rates have been having a steady cadence up in every region. So the product road map is definitely resonating with our users, and you're seeing that in our payer growth.

補充一下，我們的轉換率在每個地區都呈現穩定上升趨勢。因此，產品路線圖肯定會引起我們用戶的共鳴，您可以從我們的付款人成長中看到這一點。

Nick Jones, Citizens.

尼克瓊斯，公民。

This is Luke on for Nick. Can you just expand a bit on the AI native product suite powered by A-list and the early progress you're seeing there and maybe what you're most excited about?

這是盧克代替尼克。您能否稍微介紹一下由 A-list 提供支援的 AI 原生產品套件以及您在那裡看到的早期進展，以及您最興奮的是什麼？

Yes. I mean I'm super excited about A-list. I tell everybody that I've not yet seen another consumer product launch something like A-list, where they're identifying a very clear user need and then using the most innovative Gen AI that's out there to create a previously unimaginable solution. This was not possible before.

是的。我的意思是我對 A-list 感到非常興奮。我告訴所有人，我還沒有看到其他消費產品能推出像 A-list 這樣的東西，他們能夠識別非常明確的用戶需求，然後使用最具創新性的 Gen AI 來創建以前難以想像的解決方案。這在以前是不可能的。

I, frankly, use numerous products where I wish there was an A-list. Like, for example, I'd love an A-list in my personal Gmail. It will be really fantastic because contacts kind of information in Gmail is nowhere near as helpful as it could be and should be. And so I think there's a ton of opportunity with that.

坦白說，我使用過很多產品，但我希望有一個 A 級名單。例如，我希望在我的個人 Gmail 中有一個 A 列表。這真的太棒了，因為 Gmail 中的聯絡人資訊遠遠沒有發揮出應有的幫助。所以我認為這裡存在著大量的機會。

So we are really, really proud of what we've built and how quickly we built it and how we believe useful it will be for users. Really would strongly encourage everybody to go and check it out at grindrproduct.com/A-list. It's about a 1-minute video, but really gives you a kind of good deep dive into how A-list works.

因此，我們對我們所構建的產品、構建速度以及我們相信它對用戶將有多有用感到非常自豪。強烈建議大家去 grindrproduct.com/A-list 看看。這段影片大約一分鐘，但確實能讓你深入了解 A-list 的運作方式。

There are a bunch of other AI-based products that are coming out this year. We've already put Discover into test. I think of Discover as a new page inside Grindr, where you can see people based on your interest and their interest, where there's congruence from all over the world, right?

今年還有許多其他基於人工智慧的產品即將問世。我們已經對 Discover 進行了測試。我認為「發現」是 Grindr 中的一個新頁面，你可以根據自己的興趣和他人的興趣來尋找朋友，這裡有來自世界各地的志同道合的朋友，對嗎？

So it breaks down the geographic barriers that usually exist inside dating products, including on Grindr, which our main grid is very local based, and that's very beneficial. But we also do know that people want to find people everywhere. And this way kind of gives them a view into people all over the world that might be appealing to them. And there's many other things that are with AI kind of coming along as well.

因此，它打破了約會產品中通常存在的地理障礙，包括 Grindr，我們的主要網格非常基於本地，這是非常有益的。但我們也知道人們希望在任何地方找到人。這樣，他們就有機會了解世界各地可能對他們有吸引力的人。還有許多其他事物也與人工智慧一起出現。

We believe that these AI products are turning Grindr into an AI native product overall. So the same way that we basically invented location-based products in 2009. We are now doing the same thing with AI and are very much at the forefront of what is possible.

我們相信這些AI產品正在把Grindr整體變成一個AI原生產品。這與我們在 2009 年發明的基於位置的產品基本上相同。我們現在正在利用人工智慧做同樣的事情，並且處於可能實現的前沿。

And I believe that's going to be really, really valuable to users. The value that we're creating for them through A-list, through Discover, through insights and other things that are on the come are going to be pretty significant. And whenever you create a large amount of value for users, there's always an opportunity to significantly monetize that. We have some plans for how we will do that, but not ready to speak about that yet. That will be something we'll discuss probably a few quarters down the road.

我相信這對用戶來說真的非常有價值。我們透過 A-list、Discover、洞察力和其他即將發生的事情為他們創造的價值將非常重要。無論何時，只要你為用戶創造了大量價值，就總有機會將其轉化為豐厚的利潤。對於如何實現這一點，我們有一些計劃，但尚未準備好談論它。我們大概會在接下來的幾季討論這個問題。

And ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation, and you may now disconnect.

女士們、先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與，您現在可以斷開連接。