Gol Linhas Aereas Inteligentes SA (GOL) 2023 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to Gol Linhas Aéreas Conference Call to discuss the Third Quarter 2023 Results. This morning, the company released its results. After Gol's presentation, we'll begin the question-and-answer section initially for analysts and investors, followed by the journalists present at which time, further instructions will be provided. This event is being broadcast via Zoom and can be accessed on the company's website in voegol.com.br/ir.

歡迎參加Gol Linhas Aéreas電話會議，討論2023年第三季業績。今天上午，公司發布了業績。 Gol的演講結束後，我們將首先進入分析師和投資者的問答環節，然後是與會記者，屆時我們將提供進一步的指導。本次活動將透過Zoom直播，並可在公司網站voegol.com.br/ir上觀看。

We inform you that all participants will only be listening to the event during the presentation. And then the participants will also be able to send their questions on the platform and they will be answered by the management during this conference call or by Gol's Investor Relations team after the end of the conference call. From now on, participants are already free to submit questions through the Zoom platform. All you have to do is click on the Q&A button located at the bottom bar of your screen and type your question.

我們在此通知您，所有與會者將僅在演示期間聆聽活動內容。之後，與會者還可以透過平台提交問題，管理層將在本次電話會議期間解答您的問題，或在電話會議結束後由 Gol 的投資者關係團隊解答。從現在起，與會者可以透過 Zoom 平台自由提交問題。您只需點擊螢幕底部欄的「問答」按鈕，然後輸入您的問題即可。

Before proceeding, I would like to emphasize that the forward-looking statements are based on the beliefs and assumptions of the company's management and the current information available to Gol. These statements may involve risks and uncertainties as they relate to future events and therefore, depends on circumstances that may or may not occur. Investors, analysts and journalists should take into account that events related to the macroeconomic environment, the segment and other factors could cause results to differ materially from those expressed in the respective forward-looking statements.

在繼續之前，我想強調的是，這些前瞻性陳述是基於公司管理層的信念和假設以及Gol目前掌握的資訊。這些陳述可能涉及與未來事件相關的風險和不確定性，因此取決於可能發生或可能不會發生的情況。投資者、分析師和記者應考慮到，與宏觀經濟環境、業務部門和其他因素相關的事件可能導致實際結果與各自前瞻性陳述中表達的結果有重大差異。

Now, I give the floor to Mr. Ferrer. Please, Mr. Ferrer, you may begin your conference.

現在，我請費雷爾先生發言。費雷爾先生，請您開始您的會議。

Good morning, everyone. Thank you for your availability today on our earnings call. This morning, we published our third quarter earnings release and a presentation on Gol's Investor Relations website. So, we will just make a few brief comments here and get straight to your questions. The third quarter was another solid milestone to demonstrate that Gol's strategy and execution in adding profitable growth is generating consistent results as we expected. This has been achieved by the trust we have retained from our customers, investors, suppliers, lessors and in particular, our team who have done an impressive job and whose dedication has been the key factor that continues to drive us in this space of recovery.

大家早安！感謝您今天抽空參加我們的財報電話會議。今天上午，我們在Gol投資者關係網站上發布了第三季財報和簡報。因此，我們在這裡只做簡短的評論，然後直接回答大家的問題。第三季取得了又一個堅實的里程碑，顯示Gol在獲利成長方面的策略和執行力正在產生符合我們預期的持續成果。這得益於客戶、投資者、供應商、租賃商，尤其是我們團隊的信任，他們出色地完成了工作，他們的奉獻精神一直是我們繼續在復甦領域前進的關鍵因素。

Between July and September, Gol transported more than 8 million passengers in more than 57,000 departures. This represents a year-over-year increase of 16% and 13%, respectively. We continue to launch and inaugurate new bases in the regional markets, such as cities as Uberaba in Minas Gerais and Aracatuba in Sao Paulo. In the international markets, we increased our ASK supply by 5%, mainly South America markets compared to the third quarter of 2022. We continue on our disciplined path to profitable capacity recover. As can be seen, the 2.4 percentage points increase in our load factor, while our aircraft utilization rate increased by 2% to 11.3 hours per day.

7月至9月期間，戈爾航空共運送旅客超過800萬人次，起飛次數超過5.7萬次，較去年同期成長16%和13%。我們繼續在區域市場啟動和啟用新的基地，例如米納斯吉拉斯州的烏貝拉巴和聖保羅的阿拉薩圖巴等城市。在國際市場，我們（主要集中在南美市場）的可用座位公里數（ASK）較2022年第三季成長了5%。我們持續穩步推進獲利性運力恢復。如我們所見，我們的載客率提高了2.4個百分點，飛機利用率提高了2%，達到每天11.3小時。

Yield grew 4.5% in the period, while our RASK is up by 7.6% and our RASK increased 10.7%. This demonstrates the potential we have been achieving through the initiatives to diversify other revenues with Smiles and GOLLOG businesses. The first Smiles, which has a direct relationship with the perception of a better flight experience expanded its customer base by more than 80% year-over-year and reached more than BRL 1 billion in revenue. Our GOLLOG cargo unit more than doubled its revenue, even with our organic capacity still constrained by the slower pace supply of our passenger aircraft fleet.

本季殖利率成長4.5%，平均客座率（RASK）成長7.6%，平均客座率（RASK）成長10.7%。這展現了我們透過Smiles和GOLLOG業務實現收入多元化的舉措所展現出的潛力。第一個Smiles業務與提升飛行體驗的感知直接相關，其客戶群較去年同期成長超過80%，營收超過10億巴西雷亞爾。儘管客機機隊供應放緩仍限制了我們的有機運力成長，但我們的GOLLOG貨運部門的收入仍增加了一倍以上。

We have further expanded our partnership with Mercado Livre, which has already provided GOLLOG with leadership in cargo volume shares in tonnes per kilometer. And we have been exploring new opportunities for cargo synergies between the dedicated fleet of freighters and the space in the cargo belly of the Gol's aircraft. In addition, this partnership has the option to expand up to 6 more incremental aircraft, reaching a fleet of up to 12 aircraft in the coming years.

我們進一步拓展了與Mercado Livre的合作，Mercado Livre已幫助GOLLOG在貨運量（以噸/公里計算）方面佔據領先地位。我們一直在探索專用貨機機隊與GOL飛機貨艙空間之間貨運綜效的新機會。此外，此次合作預計在未來幾年內新增最多6架飛機，使機隊規模達到最多12架。

This quarter, we also maintained the growth pace of our tour operator, Smiles Viagens. Launched last quarter, which, at this moment, in addition to expanding its portfolio of products and partnership has also been expanding directly negotiations with hotels, which already added to more than 800 distribution agents in the Brazilian and international segments. Combined, other revenues represents a 65% year-over-year increase to BRL 413 million. For another consecutive quarter, we achieved record revenues for the third quarter of BRL 4.7 billion, with an EBIT operating margin of 17.7%, an increase of more than 11 percentage points comparing to the previous years, positioning Gol among the companies with the best operating performance in the sector.

本季度，我們保持了旅行社Smiles Viagens的成長動能。該公司於上季成立，目前除了拓展產品組合和合作關係外，也積極拓展與飯店的直接洽談，目前已在巴西和國際地區新增了800多家分銷代理商。其他營收年增65%，達到4.13億巴西雷亞爾。第三季度，我們連續兩季創下歷史新高，營收達47億巴西雷亞爾，息稅前利潤率達17.7%，較上年同期增長逾11個百分點，使Gol躋身行業最佳營運公司之列。

The attractiveness of our network and positioning in the main markets of high traffic and demand for Leisure and Business segments has been the main differentiator for our revenue performance. As corporate demand picks up, the number of take-offs has increased by 13% with a reduction in the average stage length of 7.5% and which has an impact on our costs. Our CASK ex-fuel for passenger operations increased 4.9% comparing to third quarter 2022, mainly due to return of 4 aircrafts this quarter and lower dilution of our fixed costs that are still impacted by a number of nonoperating aircraft that remain temporarily in our fleet. Without the aircraft returns in this quarter, our CASK ex-fuel would represent stability in the same comparison.

我們航線網絡的吸引力，以及在客流量大、休閒和商務需求旺盛的主要市場的定位，一直是我們收入表現的主要差異化因素。隨著企業需求的回升，起飛次數增加了13%，平均航段長度減少了7.5%，這對我們的成本產生了影響。與2022年第三季相比，我們的客運營運CASK（不含燃油）成長了4.9%，這主要得益於本季4架飛機的複飛，以及我們固定成本攤薄的降低，這些成本仍然受到我們機隊中一些暫時停飛的飛機的影響。如果不考慮本季度飛機的複飛，我們的CASK（不含燃料）在相同對比中將保持穩定。

Even so, we managed through our disciplined capacity management to preserve profitability with yields that also increased in the same proportion with higher occupancy rates, which grew 2.4 points compared to the previous year. While our ASKs increased by 5.2% compared to last year, they are still 19.3% lower comparing to third quarter 2019. In terms of operating fleet, we operated 108 aircraft in the third quarter 2023, while in the third quarter in '19, we had 115 operation aircraft, 7 more than this quarter.

即便如此，我們仍透過嚴格的運能管理，維持了獲利能力，收益率也實現了同比例成長，客座率也較上年同期提升了2.4個百分點。雖然我們的可用座位公里數（ASK）較上年同期成長了5.2%，但仍較2019年第三季下降了19.3%。就營運飛機隊而言，我們在2023年第三季營運了108架飛機，而2019年第三季我們營運了115架飛機，比本季增加了7架。

We are committed to increase the productivity of our fleet while we operate with temporarily low capacity and to incur higher costs for returning on operating aircraft. We expect a transitory impact of our ex-fuel cost to the levels higher than 2019 levels. We are focused on resuming capacity discipline. The rightsizing of our fleet will allow Gol to deliver even higher levels of profitability and to optimize its low-cost business model supported by higher aircraft utilization. We believe this is an opportunity to upside in cost efficiencies that does not exist for our competitors who are already pushing to the upper end of their historical fleet utilization.

我們致力於在運力暫時較低且營運飛機返還成本較高的情況下提昇機隊生產力。我們預計，不含燃油成本將暫時高於2019年的水準。我們正致力於恢復運力控制。機隊精簡將使戈爾航空實現更高的獲利水平，並在更高的飛機利用率的支持下優化其低成本業務模式。我們相信，這是一個提升成本效率的機會，而我們的競爭對手目前正努力將機隊利用率推向歷史最高水平，而我們目前尚無這樣的機會。

The industry has been impacted by uncertainties in the schedule of deliveries of neo aircrafts by manufacturers. In our case, of a total of 15 aircrafts scheduled for the year of 2023, Gol has so far added only 1 neo 737 MAX 8 aircraft to our passenger fleet. On another side, as part of our fleet renewal plan and recovery of our productivity and operational efficiency, we returned 4 737NGs aircraft in this quarter and 7 since the beginning of the year. We will continue with the plan to replace NGs with MAX over the next few quarters.

各製造商交付neo飛機計畫的不確定性對航空業造成了影響。就我們而言，在2023年計劃交付的15架飛機中，戈爾航空迄今僅向客運機隊增加了1架neo 737 MAX 8飛機。另一方面，作為機隊更新計劃以及生產力和營運效率恢復的一部分，我們在本季度恢復了4架737 NG飛機，自年初以來已恢復了7架。我們將繼續在未來幾季內用MAX替換NG飛機的計畫。

As part of the exclusive agreement with Mercado Livre for cargo transportation, we received the fifth 737-800BCF aircraft this quarter. And in the month of October, we received the sixth freighter aircraft completing the commitment of 6 aircraft for the year 2023. We have invested in improving our digital channels, which have reached the highest level of self-services. As capacity increased our fleet returns to 2019 levels, we believe that our dedication to cost efficiency and our team's commitment to provide the best customer experience, we reinforce Gol's already consolidated competitive position in the market.

作為與Mercado Livre簽訂的貨運獨家協議的一部分，我們本季接收了第五架737-800BCF貨機。 10月份，我們接收了第六架貨機，完成了2023年6架貨機的交貨承諾。我們已投資改善數位管道，使其自助服務達到最高水準。隨著運力提升，我們的機隊規模已恢復到2019年的水準。我們相信，我們對成本效益的執著以及團隊致力於提供最佳客戶體驗的不懈努力，將進一步鞏固Gol在市場上業已穩固的競爭地位。

In terms of discipline and commitment to executed by the Gol team, we will continue on the right track with our plans to continue to be the benchmark for the lowest unit cost in the region. Excluding the effects of the freighter fleet, our total unit cost decreased by 9.5% comparing to last year. The consistent results we have presented in recent quarters, an important for a recovery in our cash flow from operating activities, which reached BRL 0.9 billion in the quarter.

就Gol團隊的紀律和執行承諾而言，我們將繼續按照計劃穩步推進，繼續成為該地區單位成本最低的標竿。剔除貨機隊的影響，我們的總單位成本較去年下降了9.5%。我們最近幾季的持續業績對我們經營活動現金流的復甦至關重要，本季現金流達到9億巴西雷亞爾。

Finally, we would also like to highlight that this October, we renew for another 10 years, our exclusive commercial agreement with Air France-KLM, which represents the expansion of the code share that will provide better connectivity to more than 125 destinations in Europe and Brazil and also in the future, new destinations through Latin America. This strengthening of the partnership also provides for the enhancement of joint sales and more benefits for customers of Gol's Smiles and Air France-KLM's Flying Blue loyalty programs as well an expansion of the Air France-KLM workshop existing engine maintenance support for Gol's CFM56 and LEAP engines. We are sure that some of the initiatives we have taken to increase our productivity will be fundamental to take Gol to a new level in the coming months.

最後，我們還要強調的是，今年十月，我們與法國航空荷航集團續簽了為期十年的獨家商業協議，這意味著代碼共享的擴展將為Gol航空提供更便捷的航線連接，覆蓋歐洲和巴西超過125個目的地，未來還將開通拉丁美洲的新目的地。此次合作的加強也將提升共同銷售，為Gol航空的「微笑」計畫和法航荷航「藍天飛行」忠誠度計畫的乘客帶來更多優惠，並擴展法航荷航維修車間對Gol航空CFM56和LEAP發動機的現有維護支援。我們堅信，我們為提高生產力而採取的一些舉措，將在未來幾個月內推動Gol航空邁向新的發展水平。

I will now turn the floor to Mario, who will represent some other highlights.

現在我將請馬裡奧發言，他將介紹其他一些亮點。

Thanks, Celso. I want first to start to thank our entire Gol team for this very incredible hard work and dedication during this quarter. They have been doing excellent and tireless work to improve our operational efficiency and our clients' experience, which has been reflected in the achievement of record net revenue in this Q3 and consistency of margins quarter-over-quarter. And even the EBIT and EBITDA margin is reaching a strong levels of 17.7% and 26.8%, respectively. Our EBITDA for the quarter was BRL 1.25 billion, while our operating profit was BRL 825 million.

謝謝，Celso。首先，我要感謝我們整個Gol團隊在本季的辛勤工作和奉獻。他們出色且不懈地工作，提升了我們的營運效率和客戶體驗，這體現在第三季創紀錄的淨收入和環比穩定的利潤率。息稅前利潤 (EBIT) 和息稅折舊攤銷前利潤 (EBITDA) 也分別達到了17.7%和26.8%的強勁水準。本季我們的EBITDA為12.5億巴西雷亞爾，營業利潤為8.25億巴西雷亞爾。

Our yields and RASK also reached record levels, growing 4.5% and 10.7%, respectively to BRL 0.47 and BRL 0.43. We reached BRL 5.4 billion in sales volume this quarter, demonstrating that future booking curves remain strong and with continuously high load factors. Our demand in domestic market continues to grow consistently and resiliency. We had the best Gol ever according to ANAC with 8.2 million passenger support in Brazil. In addition, business travel saw also 17.3% increase compared to the previous quarter and continues to improve consistently as companies continue to show return to office initiatives.

我們的殖利率和平均客座率（RASK）也創下歷史新高，分別成長4.5%和10.7%，達到0.47巴西雷亞爾和0.43巴西雷亞爾。本季我們的銷售額達到54億巴西雷亞爾，顯示未來預訂曲線依然強勁，客座率也持續維持高位。我們國內市場的需求持續成長，並維持韌性。根據巴西民航局（ANAC）的數據，我們的客座率創歷史新高，在巴西共接待了820萬名乘客。此外，商務旅行也較上一季成長了17.3%，隨著企業持續推行復工計劃，客座率持續改善。

With a comprehensive and proven business strategy, together with the most qualified team in the industry, have created a healthy combination of capacity recovery and yield growth. Our total unit cost was decreased by approximately 8% year-over-year, helped by the decrease in the jet fuel prices during this quarter. We are committed to continue to deliver the best cost performance in the industry.

憑藉著全面且行之有效的業務策略，以及業界最優秀的團隊，我們實現了運力復甦和收益成長的健康發展。得益於本季航油價格的下降，我們的單位總成本年減了約8%。我們致力於繼續保持業界最佳的性價比。

We also, this quarter, we completed 2 major liability management transaction. The first one was related to the refinancing of BRL 1 billion debentures with the Brazil local banks, which resulted in 30 months extension as the new term now is June '26. And we have the support of those local debenture banks in allowing us to better adjustment of the debt to the Gol's growing cash flow. The second was the completion of the conversion of $1.2 billion of SSN, senior secured notes into a convertible debt instrument, the ESSN maturing in 2028. So, no change in terms of the -- the terms and condition of the SSN.

本季度，我們也完成了兩項重大負債管理交易。第一項是與巴西當地銀行進行10億雷亞爾債券的再融資，該債券的期限延長了30個月，新的期限為2026年6月。我們得到了當地債券銀行的支持，這使我們能夠更好地調整債務，以適應戈爾公司不斷增長的現金流。第二項是將12億美元的SSN優先擔保票據轉換為可轉換債務工具，ESSN將於2028年到期。因此，SSN的條款和條件沒有變化。

In the middle of this process, a total of BRL 992 million of Gol's warrants has been subscribed and has been issued, which may be converted into shares in the future at an exercise price of BRL 5.82 per share, which would result in a pro forma deal in a reduction of approximately BRL 6 billion in Gol's total indebtedness, the total leverage. Strengthening our balance sheet remains a top priority. Our fundamentals continue to improve as we reduce our leverage to 4x as of September 30 of this year, this third quarter from 9.5x by the end of last year. So, it's almost 5x reduction in terms of leverage, mainly impacted or contributed by the recovery in our EBITDA and the reduction of net debt in this period.

在此過程中，Gol 已認購並發行了總計 9.92 億雷亞爾的認股權證，這些認股權證未來可能以每股 5.82 雷亞爾的行權價轉換為股票，這將導致 Gol 的總債務（即總槓桿率）減少約 60 億雷亞爾。強化資產負債表仍然是我們的首要任務。我們的基本面持續改善，截至今年 9 月 30 日，我們的槓桿率已從去年年底的 9.5 倍降至第三季的 4 倍。因此，槓桿率幾乎降低了 5 倍，這主要得益於本季 EBITDA 的回升和淨債務的減少。

To conclude my highlights and in order to provide the usual transparency to our investors, we are pre-dating our financial outlook for this year 2023, reflecting the 9 months results, that has been already delivered with a more challenging scenario for fuel cost for 4Q '23 that practically offset the benefit generating throughout the second quarter '23 mostly. And also the impacts on capacity derived from the current uncertainty in our fleet plan that generate a lower dilution in our fixed costs, especially on the CASK ex-fuel impact for the 4Q '23.

最後，為了總結我的重點，並向投資者提供一貫的透明度，我們提前預測了2023年的財務前景，反映了前9個月的業績，這些業績已在2023年第四季度呈現出更具挑戰性的燃油成本情景，這幾乎抵消了2023年第二季度的大部分收益。此外，由於我們目前機隊計畫的不確定性，運能也受到影響，這降低了我們固定成本的攤薄，尤其是對2023年第四季CASK（不含燃油）的影響。

Now, I return the floor to Celso.

現在，我將發言權交還給 Celso。

Thank you, Mario. We will maintain our dedication through initiatives that promote a broader diversification of revenue sources and above all, those that lead to improvements in productivity and efficiency. Our operation continues to build on the solid foundations we have established in recent years and our commitment to provide reliability, profitability and strengthening our balance sheet. Our business model has proven to be [robustic] with a strong track record of execution and industry leadership. We are confident in our ability to deliver significant improvement, particularly in capturing upsides for reduction of our ex-fuel CASK.

謝謝你，馬裡奧。我們將持續致力於推動收入來源多元化，尤其是那些能夠提高生產力和效率的措施。我們的營運將繼續以近年來建立的堅實基礎為基礎，並致力於提供可靠性、盈利能力和增強資產負債表。事實證明，我們的商業模式是[穩健的]，擁有強大的執行力和行業領先地位。我們有信心實現顯著的改進，尤其是在降低燃料成本方面。

So to conclude, I would like to thank our Eagles team for the new record on revenues, that higher margins and the excellent experience they provide daily to our customers. I'm extremely proud of this team's role in rebuilding the best-performing airline in the region. Their dedication is what continues to propel us to the top.

最後，我要感謝我們的Eagles團隊，感謝他們創造了新的收入記錄、更高的利潤率，以及他們每天為乘客提供的卓越體驗。我為這個團隊在重建該地區最佳航空公司方面所發揮的作用感到非常自豪。他們的奉獻精神是我們不斷邁向巔峰的動力。

Carrey, you can start the Q&A question.

凱瑞，你可以開始問答環節了。

Thank you. The conference call is now open for questions initially only for analysts and investors. At the end of this stage, we will open for questions from the journalists present. (Operator Instructions) Please wait while we receive the questions from investors and analysts. Our first question comes from Savi Syth from Raymond James.

謝謝。電話會議現在僅開放給分析師和投資者提問。此階段結束後，我們將開放給在場記者提問。 （操作員指示）請稍候，我們正在接收投資人和分析師的問題。第一個問題來自 Raymond James 的 Savi Syth。

Just on the utilization front, given that there is so much opportunity there, I was wondering if you could talk a little bit more about the biggest impediments to getting that utilization back to 12 hours and your kind of visibility on how you get there.

就利用率方面而言，鑑於存在如此多的機會，我想知道您是否可以再多談談將利用率恢復到 12 小時的最大障礙，以及您對如何實現這一目標的看法。

It's Celso. Thank you for your question. And as you know, we are working hard to achieve, let's say, the numbers that we used to fly for 12 hours per day. And we are almost there with the existing fleet. We still have some planes -- more planes that we normally have. In maintenance lines, we used to have 4 maintenance lines. Now, we have up to 8%, depending on the quarter. And so this is one of the hurdles we are facing. As well, we are now focused in this quarter, specifically the third quarter is where we reduce the stage length. We concentrate a lot of the operation in the short-haul to make sure we would be able to fly the customer -- the corporate customers' traffic.

我是塞爾索。謝謝您的提問。如您所知，我們正在努力恢復到以前每天飛行12小時的水平。我們現有的機隊也幾乎達到了這個目標。我們還有一些飛機——比平常更多的飛機。在維修方面，我們以前有4條維修線。現在，我們的維修線最多佔8%，具體比例取決於季度。這是我們面臨的挑戰之一。此外，我們現在的重點是本季度，特別是第三季度，我們將縮短航段長度。我們將大量營運集中在短程航線上，以確保我們能夠滿足客戶—企業客戶的客流量。

But as we go to the fourth quarter, we start to increase the red-eye flights, increase the stage length and especially now with the changes in Santos Dumont to Galeão that we are anticipating, even though we need to change in January, but we are anticipating to November-December. We want to increase the utilization of those planes for above 14 hours, which will drive our average to the 12 hours that you are mentioning.

但隨著進入第四季度，我們開始增加夜間航班，延長航段長度，尤其是考慮到我們預計桑托斯杜蒙特至加利奧航線的變更。雖然我們需要在一月份進行變更，但我們預計會延長到十一月至十二月。我們希望將這些飛機的利用率提高到14小時以上，這將使我們的平均飛行時間達到您所提到的12小時。

That makes sense, and that explains why the ASKs are increased kind of unchanged there. If I might, just on your partnership with Air France-KLM, is there significant changes from the agreement that was there before and or tied to that, like what happens to some of the partnerships that you had to Europe, such as with TAP. Does that kind of get excluded with the new partnership?

這很有道理，這也解釋了為什麼可用座位公里數（ASK）基本上保持不變，但有所增加。請容許我談談您與法國航空荷航的合作關係。與先前的協議相比，是否有重大變化？或與之相關的變化？例如，您之前在歐洲的一些合作關係，例如與葡萄牙航空（TAP）的合作關係，會有什麼改變？新的合作關係會將這些合作關係排除在外嗎？

No. We are not [expanding] any additional curve out of what we already have. I mean what we have with Air France-KLM is very special. We have been building long-term projects together. It's not only a code share. We are working for them to develop new gateways in Brazil, also making sure that we provide more connectivity. Now in Rio, we are reinforcing this by growing the Beyonce in Rio International. One of the main difference, it's not on the commercial passenger side, it's more on the MRO side that we increased, let's say, our contract with them for the next years to have more slots and also give access to maintenance for our NGs, CFM56 engines and also the LEAP. I think that's the big change that we're coming in a good time for us.

不，我們不會在現有基礎上再增加任何航線。我的意思是，我們與法國航空荷航的合作非常特別。我們一直在共同打造長期項目，不僅僅是程式碼共享。我們正在幫助他們在巴西開發新的航線，同時確保我們提供更多連接。現在，在裡約，我們正透過在裡約國際機場增加碧昂絲航線來加強這一點。主要差異之一，不在於商業客運方面，而在於維護、大修（MRO）方面。我們增加了與他們未來幾年的合同，以便獲得更多起降時刻，並為我們的NG發動機、CFM56發動機以及LEAP發動機提供維護服務。我認為，這是我們在有利時機到來的重大變革。

So, no kind of change to your other partnerships that are existing.

因此，您現有的其他合作關係不會發生任何變化。

Not.

不是。

Our next question comes from Daniel McKenzie from Seaport Global.

我們的下一個問題來自 Seaport Global 的 Daniel McKenzie。

Hopefully, you can hear me okay. Just following up on Savi's question here, if we're just kind of to approach that from a different perspective, what percent of the CASK ex-fuel eventually goes away when the structural overhead that you're carrying today normalizes. So for example, the excess pilots versus what you can fly the 8 lines of maintenance that eventually would potentially get to 4? And then if you could just clarify sort of a time line for when you might think this could normalize? Is it sometime in 2024? Or is it more realistic to assume that it's probably going to be closer to 2025 sometime?

希望您能聽懂我的話。我來跟進一下薩維的問題。如果我們換個角度來看，當你們目前承擔的結構性開銷恢復正常後，CASK（除燃料外）最終會減少多少比例？比方說，多餘的飛行員數量與你們能夠執行的8條維修線（最終可能會減少到4條）相比如何？然後，您能否明確一下您認為這種情況何時會恢復正常的時間表？是在2024年的某個時候嗎？或者更現實的假設是，可能在2025年左右？

Dan, very good question. And as I was explaining here this morning, we expect to have a higher cost ex-fuel for -- temporarily and to address, I mean, all the fleet constraints we have on the engine side but also on the delivery side and primarily on the delivery side, like you saw, we took delivery of 1 MAX out of the 15, and we may take (technical difficulty). I think we had a problem with our connection.

丹，這個問題問得非常好。正如我今天早上在這裡解釋的那樣，我們預計燃油成本會暫時上漲，這是為了解決我們在引擎方面以及交付方面的所有機隊限制。主要是在交付方面，正如你所看到的，我們接收了15架MAX中的1架，我們可能會遇到（技術困難）。我認為我們的連接出現了問題。

I can hear you now.

我現在能聽到你的聲音了。

You can hear me now. So sorry, we had a problem with my connection here. And so as I explained in my first comment here, we are going to face temporary increase in our CASK ex-fuel for at least 12 months. So, we expect to reach the level of productivities only by half of next year. We are -- as you said, we have this drag of fixed cost, which is not related to crew because in Brazil, we have a variable payment and we have a good agreement with our crew. So, we can fly more or fly a little bit less, not too much less like in the pandemic, but we can fly a little bit less with our crew. And we can accommodate this situation for, let's say, 6 to 9 months.

現在您可以聽到我說話了。很抱歉，我的連線出了點問題。正如我在第一條評論中解釋的那樣，我們的空運出口燃料價格（CASK ex-fuel）將在未來至少12個月內暫時上漲。因此，我們預計到明年一半的時間才能達到目前的生產水準。正如您所說，我們面臨著固定成本的拖累，這與機組人員無關，因為在巴西，我們的薪水是浮動的，而且我們與機組人員簽訂了良好的協議。因此，我們可以增加飛行次數或減少飛行次數，不會像疫情期間那樣減少太多，但我們可以與機組人員一起減少飛行次數。我們可以適應這種情況，比如說，6到9個月。

We expect to have, let's say, the right ASK production with our existing fleet by third quarter next year with the same levels of cost ex-fuel that we have in 2019. It's not only on the CASK that you see the inefficiency, there is also on the lease payments. So, if you look at the lease payments, we still have 20 aircraft on the ground. This is the biggest drag that we have at this moment.

我們預計，到明年第三季度，我們現有機隊的可用座位公里數（ASK）產量將達到理想水平，且不含燃油的成本與2019年持平。效率低落不僅體現在空中巴士ASK（大型飛機）上，租賃付款也是如此。所以，如果從租賃付款來看，我們仍然有20架飛機停飛。這是我們目前面臨的最大阻力。

Let me add one point as well. Because of that constraints related to capacity, if you look to what we have been doing, especially in order to recover the efficiency of fleet, we are returning more -- a higher number of aircraft in order to reduce that level of, let's say, aircraft that is currently not under operation. So, this number came from something around 30 to 40 aircraft since by the end of pandemic and now is a number that is lower than 20%, but we still, as mentioned, said, we have some inefficiency on the cash flow because we are paying some of the leases that is either is not producing profit, right? So that is something that we are planning to be able to reduce until the end of next year.

我再補充一點。由於運力限制，如果你看看我們一直在做的事情，特別是為了恢復機隊效率，我們正在恢復更多飛機——更多數量的飛機，以減少目前停飛的飛機數量。這個數字是從疫情結束以來大約30到40架飛機算起的，現在這個數字低於20%。但正如我們之前提到的，我們的現金流效率仍然較低，因為我們正在支付一些沒有產生利潤的租賃費用，對吧？所以我們計劃在明年年底前減少這部分費用。

Potential is not going to be producing, let's say, all the revenue profitability already within the next year, but definitely is going to be preparing the company for entering 2025 without any leakage on that. And the constraint on the fleet as well is that we are probably going to be impacted by temporary unit cost is going to be a little bit higher, given the cost associated to return on the aircraft. And at the same time, we are not extracting gains for potential new deliveries that used to have if we receive all the deliveries according to the original plan.

潛力並非意味著明年就能產生所有收入獲利，但肯定會為公司邁入2025年做好準備，避免任何損失。此外，機隊規模的限制還在於，考慮到飛機退還的相關成本，我們可能會受到暫時單位成本略高的影響。同時，我們無法像以前那樣，從潛在的新交付中獲得收益，前提是所有交付都按原計劃進行。

So basically, we have been very committed to drive the unit cost, the CASK ex-fuel in U.S. dollars to a similar level 2019. If you look to this quarter, maybe it's about USD 0.05 of CASK ex-fuel that is deviated mostly related to that capacity constraint. If you remember in the first guidance that we provided, we're expecting to increase much more towards 15% to 20% of [SK] this year and now we are reducing to maybe a low end of low double-digit area. So that's, of course, that impacts most of that cost because there's some limitation what we can do in terms of reducing the fixed cost and given the certainty, of course, this is structural overhead is something that's temporarily, but is that -- there's not a lot of room to reduce until we have a more clear view of what's going to be happening in the future. And if you look to the baseline, the company is generating a healthy profit, a healthy EBITDA, so it means that for every aircraft that we're going to be adding back to the operation, we're going to be creating additional cash flow that can help of course, the next coming year cash flow in order to address higher CapEx going forward.

所以基本上，我們一直致力於將單位成本（以美元計算的CASK不含燃料）降至與2019年相似的水平。如果你看一下本季度，可能會發現CASK不含燃料的成本大約有0.05美元的偏差，這主要與產能限制有關。如果你還記得我們提供的第一個指導方針，我們預計今年[SK]的成本將大幅增加15%到20%，現在我們正在將其降至較低的兩位數區域。當然，這會影響大部分成本，因為我們在降低固定成本方面能做的事情有限，當然，考慮到結構性間接費用是暫時的，但在我們對未來將要發生的事情有更清晰的認識之前，沒有太大的削減空間。如果你看一下基線，你會發現公司正在產生健康的利潤，健康的 EBITDA，這意味著對於我們重新投入運營的每架飛機，我們都將創造額外的現金流，這當然可以幫助明年的現金流，以解決未來更高的資本支出問題。

And just following up on that last point, Mario, as we think about 2024 and as we think about some of these structural costs going away, what is the level of EBITDA next year that gets you to, say, free cash flow breakeven just based on the CapEx that you're looking at? So, I'm not asking for a forecast. I'm just trying to get a sense of the hurdle rate for generating cash next year. And then just kind of as a follow-on to that, to what extent is Gol's loyalty program unencumbered currently? And could it be used as a source of refinancing future debt that comes due in 2025?

馬裡奧，關於最後一點，我們先來回顧一下，考慮到2024年，考慮到一些結構性成本的消失，明年的EBITDA（息稅折舊攤銷前利潤）應該達到多少才能讓你們實現自由現金流盈虧平衡？僅基於你所關注的資本支出，那麼我並不是要求你給予預測。我只是想了解明年產生現金的最低收益率。接下來，我想問一下，Gol的忠誠度計畫目前在多大程度上沒有受到限制？它是否可以作為2025年到期債務的再融資來源？

Sure. For your first question, if you look this year, even with the EBITDA margin that we're providing, now Gol is reaching a neutral cash flow for the ongoing operations. So, for the current obligation, we can cover not only all the necessary related to the P&L, but also the CapEx for the ongoing operation. Of course, one of the main challenges right now is how we can address the balance sheet issues, right? And also the CapEx that has been remained from the previous years. So, some of the engines that you need to cover also this lack of new aircraft that was going to be supposed to be delivered, that's the impact on the cash flow.

當然。關於你的第一個問題，如果你看一下今年的情況，即使考慮到我們提供的EBITDA利潤率，Gol現在的持續營運現金流也達到了中性水平。因此，就當前義務而言，我們不僅可以涵蓋與損益表相關的所有必要費用，還可以涵蓋持續營運的資本支出。當然，目前的主要挑戰之一是如何解決資產負債表問題，對吧？還有前幾年遺留的資本支出。所以，有些引擎需要支付，而且由於新飛機交付不足，這些都對現金流產生了影響。

And the main problem, especially in this year was not the level of what Gol can generate in terms of EBITDA, but also the lack of credit availability, especially during the first half of the year. That is something that we are working in order to establish the credit capacity, especially for the CapEx, there has been one of the important sources that we have been able to create a financing support in the previous year. So, the point is that going forward, if you can consider that the recovering capacity can help the company in order to start to dilute fix a cost and also to drive the CASK ex fuel going down and at the same time, the market is still very aligned in terms of the discipline of continuing to keep yields and fares in a sustainable way that's going to be a natural expansion in terms of EBITDA.

今年的主要問題並非Gol的EBITDA水平，而是信貸供應不足，尤其是在上半年。我們正在努力提高信貸能力，尤其是資本支出的信貸能力。資本支出是我們去年能夠創造融資支持的重要來源之一。因此，展望未來，如果能夠考慮到恢復產能可以幫助公司開始攤薄固定成本，並推動CASK燃料價格下降，同時市場仍然非常一致地遵循可持續地保持收益率和票價的原則，那麼EBITDA的擴張將是自然而然的。

If you look prior to 2018 it was a number that's much closer to 29% to 30%. So we don't expect that, that recovery is going to be taking so fast. So maybe 1 percentage point every single year is something that is reasonable if you think that we can add capacity in conjunction to huge preservation going forward. And that definitely, if we resolve that about 15 to 20 idle aircraft in our fleet and put that back in operation, producing that EBITDA level that it has been healthy that can add as additional source in order to handle the CapEx going forward.

如果你回顧2018年之前的數據，這個數字更接近29%到30%。所以我們預計復甦不會這麼快。所以，如果你認為我們未來可以增加運能並進行大規模的維護，那麼每年增加1個百分點或許是合理的。當然，如果我們能解決機隊中大約15到20架閒置飛機的問題，並使其恢復運營，並保持健康的EBITDA水平，那麼這可以作為額外的收入來源，以應對未來的資本支出。

Yes. If I just squeeze one last quick one in here. The 15 MAXs that were planned for this year, the final expectation for 2023, if you could just remind us. And are those all going to get bunched into 2024? Or are there additional discussions with Boeing at this point for either additional compensation or for kind of a repacing of the order book?

是的。我最後再快速問一下。您能提醒我們一下嗎？今年計劃生產15架MAX，最終預計在2023年生產。這些MAX都會集中到2024年生產嗎？或者目前是否正在與波音進行額外的談判，以尋求額外的補償或重新安排訂單？

Yes. Dan, sorry, I was answering your question and I had a connectivity problem. I was answering exactly this. And we took delivery of one plane, and we expect to take delivery of at least additional 4 until the end of the year. That's what we are working really close to Boeing now to -- it's like kind of almost everyday call to make sure that we take this capacity, which is now a little bit to the right of what we were expecting in the fourth quarter.

是的。丹，抱歉，我剛才正在回答你的問題，結果網路出了點問題。我剛才就是在回答這個問題。我們接收了一架飛機，預計到今年底還會接收至少四架。我們目前正與波音公司密切合作——幾乎每天都會打電話，確保我們能夠充分利用這一運力，目前這一運力略高於我們對第四季的預期。

And our main discussion today is how can we make sure that we -- I mean, we catch up as soon as possible next year on the deliveries because the best-case scenario today is to take 5 out of 15. So we need the extra 10 sooner than later at the beginning of the year, and this is what we are discussing with them, no answer yet.

我們今天的主要討論是如何確保我們——我的意思是，我們明年能盡快趕上交貨進度，因為目前最好的情況是拿出 15 架中的 5 架。所以我們需要在年初盡快拿到額外的 10 架，這就是我們正在與他們討論的問題，目前還沒有答案。

Our next question comes from Joao Frizo from Goldman Sachs.

我們的下一個問題來自高盛的 Joao Frizo。

I have two from our side. The first one relates to the guidance you guys updated. So we were just wondering if you could help us reconcile the downward revision in net revenue guidance. If you were to take into account your capacity guidance for the year into your new net revenue guidance, this implies a deterioration quarter-over-quarter in RASK in 4Q. So I'm just trying to understand to what do you attribute this worsening?

我這邊有兩個問題。第一個問題與你們更新的指引有關。我們想請問您能否幫助我們理順淨收入指引的下調。如果您將今年的產能指引納入新的淨收入指引中，這意味著第四季的RASK季減。我想了解一下，您認為這種惡化的原因是什麼？

And the second question is related to the new exchangeable senior convertible notes. If you could just help us with the calculations to the [BRL 3.9 billion] you guys recognized as a derivative liability. Those are my 2 questions.

第二個問題與新的可交換優先可轉換債券有關。您能否幫忙計算一下你們確認為衍生負債的[39億巴西雷亞爾]？這就是我的兩個問題。

Sure. So thanks, John. So the first one, let me answer first the exchangeable first. So we -- this quarter, we issued the ESSN, right, that has converted about $1.2 billion of -- on the previous SSN. And if you look to the financial statements, we still have some portion of around $100 million of SSN that has still not been converted and is still sitting in the balance sheet. So you still have those 2 instruments in the balance sheet, but the major portion of the SSN has been already converted. And we -- followed by the IFRS accounting rule by converting into a SSN that is a convertible instrument, we need to split out 2 components. So first is a debt portion, what is going to be the fair value of the debt portion. And the second is to value what is going to be the implicit option, the embedded option because this is a convertible instrument that's going to be splitted in a different line of the balance sheet.

當然。謝謝，約翰。第一個問題，我先回答可轉換債券的問題。我們本季發行了ESSN，相當於先前的SSN轉換了約12億美元。如果你查看財務報表，會發現仍有約1億美元的SSN尚未轉換，仍在資產負債表中。所以，資產負債表中仍然有這兩種工具，但SSN的大部分已經轉換。根據國際財務報告準則（IFRS），在將SSN轉換為可轉換工具時，我們需要將其拆分成兩個部分。首先是債務部分，即債務部分的公平價值。其次是評估隱含選擇權，即嵌入式選擇權，因為這是一種可轉換工具，將在資產負債表的另一行進行拆分。

So you see that in the loans and financings, the regional SSN now has recorded [BRL 3.4 billion], so it's about $680 million. And the separate component that's related to that derivative is splitting in another line. So we are just following what is required in terms of accounting rule because this is kind of a convertible instrument. And of course, by the end of the material conversion or even in the material of this debt, the lender, the Sabre will continue to collect the same $1.2 billion. But the books tended to reflect the time value for this option features. So if you add the 2 components in aggregate, it's probably going to take the same amount. And this fair value of the option will be valued each quarter. But that's already reflects kind of a derivative instrument that go against the equity. That's why it's not considered as a debt anymore. That answer the last question for you?

所以你看，在貸款和融資中，地區社會安全金 (SSN) 目前已記錄了 [34 億巴西雷亞爾]，大約是 6.8 億美元。與該衍生品相關的單獨部分則被拆分到另一行。我們只是遵循會計準則的要求，因為這是一種可轉換工具。當然，在實質轉換結束時，或甚至在這筆債務的實質上，貸款方 Sabre 將繼續收回相同的 12 億美元。但帳簿往往反映了該選擇權特徵的時間價值。所以，如果將這兩個部分加起來，很可能需要相同的金額。該選擇權的公允價值將每季進行估價。但這已經反映了一種與股權相反的衍生性商品。這就是為什麼它不再被視為債務的原因。這回答了你的最後一個問題？

Yes. Super clear.

是的。非常清楚。

Okay. And the second was related to the guidance, right? So if you look to what we did, specifically everything was correlated to the fact that we reduced the number of operating fleet, and that was a result of that impact that we answered in the previous questions related to the lower number of MAX to be delivered. At the same time, we are still keeping the same rate of redeliveries that that's one of the main efforts that we are implementing in order to reduce that gap between the total fleet and the operating fleet. So the reducing -- in terms of new deliveries has been reducing the number of SKs. Actually, the SKs didn't change, but because we were in the middle end of SK and now we're moving much more into the low end, but you can see that in terms of seats and also departures, we were in the low end and now we reduced that guidance related to seats. So we are considering departures. And of course, that has been impacting lower number of revenue.

好的。第二個問題與預期有關，對吧？所以，如果你看看我們所做的一切，你會發現所有變化都與我們減少運營機隊數量有關，而這與我們之前在問題中回答的有關 MAX 交付數量減少的影響有關。同時，我們仍保持相同的再交付率，這是我們為縮小總機隊數量和營運機隊數量之間的差距而採取的主要措施之一。因此，就新交付量而言，SK 數量的減少也導致了 SK 數量的減少。實際上，SK 數量並沒有變化，只是因為我們之前處於 SK 的中端，而現在我們正更多地轉向低端。但你可以看到，就座位數和離港量而言，我們之前處於低端，現在我們降低了與座位數相關的預期。所以我們正在考慮離港量。當然，這影響了收入的下降。

You mentioned about RASK, we expect that yield is going to be more stable, but at the same time, RASK that is related to the contribution from loyalty and also from cargo, especially cargo because of the reduction in terms of the SKs so the capacity on the value of the aircraft, we're also going to be impacted. And if you look to, especially the revenue performance for this quarter, even though yields has been increased by 4.5% year-over-year, the RASK increased about 11% and has been mainly driven by the revenues that, that potential impact in terms of capacity will be also lower the contribution on the RASK coming from the revenues going forward, and that's why you have a lower revenue implicit in the guidance.

您提到了RASK，我們預期收益率會更加穩定，但同時，RASK與忠誠度計畫和貨運的貢獻有關，尤其是貨運，因為SK的減少，也就是飛機運力的減少，也會影響飛機的價值。如果您看一下本季的營收表現，儘管收益率同比增長了4.5%，但RASK成長了約11%，這主要受收入驅動，運力方面的潛在影響也會降低未來收入對RASK的貢獻，這就是為什麼您的預期中隱含的收入會降低。

And just if I may, just a follow-up on the secured notes. If I'm not mistaken, you guys have not drawn everything you could draw from the [$450 million] in cash you could do. Could you just update us on how much have you guys already withdrawn with the SSN and how much is left?

如果可以的話，我想跟進一下擔保票據的問題。如果我沒記錯的話，你們還沒提領所有（4.5億美元）現金。能否更新一下，你們已經用社保號提取了多少錢，還剩下多少錢？

Yes. Until the second quarter it was around [$200 million] that has been drawn. That's why we converted from the -- up to [$1.4 billion] of the SSN. We have been converting something above [$1.2 billion]. In this quarter, we utilized it primarily for the CapEx essential activities like acquisition of spare parts, something additional [$50 million] roughly.

是的。截至第二季度，已提取的資金約為[2億美元]。這就是為什麼我們將高達[14億美元]的SSN資金進行了轉換。我們一直在轉換超過[12億美元]的資金。在本季度，我們主要用於資本支出（CapEx）的必要活動，例如採購備件，額外約[5000萬美元]。

Our next question comes from Victor Mizusaki from Bradesco BBI.

下一個問題來自 Bradesco BBI 的 Victor Mizusaki。

I have 2 questions here. The first one, you mentioned in the presentation that you have 6 options for cargo freighters for 2024. So my first question is, what will make you exercise these options? I mean can we assume that maybe you can announce a big contract maybe in Q4 or next year to treat these options? And the second one is related to the leasing contracts. In the income statement I think that you booked like BRL 60 million of gains with lease negotiations. So can you give additional details about this?

我有兩個問題。第一個問題，您在簡報中提到，2024 年您有 6 種貨機方案。那麼我的第一個問題是，是什麼促使您行使這些方案？我的意思是，我們是否可以假設，您或許會在第四季或明年宣布一項大合約來處理這些方案？第二個問題與租賃合約有關。我認為您在損益表中透過租賃談判獲得了約 6000 萬巴西雷亞爾的收益。能否提供更多細節？

So on the cargo options that we have, we are -- the first commitment was the 6 aircraft and the number 6 has now arrived in October. And from the 7 to the 12, we go one by one. We don't need to go like an additional 6. And this is what we are working close to Mercado Livre to understand the demand environment. And of course, they do their forecast. And we are working to make sure that until the end of this year, we have a clear picture because we need to commit well in advance with those planes.

就我們現有的貨運方案而言，我們首先承諾的是6架飛機，第6架已於10月抵達。之後，我們會逐步從7架飛機到12架飛機。我們不需要一次性訂購6架。為此，我們正在與Mercado Livre密切合作，以了解需求環境。當然，他們也會進行預測。我們正在努力確保在今年年底前對市場情況有一個清晰的了解，因為我們需要提前做好飛機的交付。

So we are working with lessors, especially on our returns. If we can combine a lease return that we have on our existing passenger fleet to a conversion into cargo that's the best thing for us and for Mercado Livre. And this is what we did, by the way, in the 6 airplanes that we have. So we are discussing right now with the lessors, those options to make sure that we can start receiving those planes by second quarter next year. We go one by one. I'm sure it's going to be more than 6, but it's still early to say how many out of the 12 that we have. And on the second question that you raised, the gain was related to sale leasebacks that we did on the engines and also in one of the MAXs that we received. So we used to have finance leases on some engines that we turned into operating leases during the quarter.

因此，我們正在與租賃商合作，尤其是在收益方面。如果我們能將現有客運機隊的租賃收益與貨運收益結合起來，這對我們和Mercado Livre來說都是最好的選擇。順便說一下，我們在現有的6架飛機上就是這麼做的。所以我們目前正在與租賃商討論這些方案，以確保我們能在明年第二季開始接收這些飛機。我們會一一進行討論。我確信接收的飛機數量會超過6架，但現在判斷我們現有的12架飛機中有多少架是為時過早。關於您提出的第二個問題，收益與我們在發動機以及我們接收的其中一架MAX飛機上進行的售後回租有關。我們之前對一些引擎進行的是融資租賃，在本季我們將其轉為營業租賃。

Our next question comes from Jay Singh from Citi.

下一個問題來自花旗銀行的傑伊·辛格 (Jay Singh)。

You guys have already answered one of my questions, but the other one I wanted to ask is, what sort of flow are you seeing from American Airlines?

你們已經回答了我的一個問題，但我想問的另一個問題是，你們看到美國航空公司的流程是什麼樣的？

Okay. Jay, we are -- I mean, constantly reviewing how can we improve the partnership with American that has been very strong since we signed that deal. And we are happy that American has now increased the capacity to Brazil. So especially, we have been feeding them a lot from Guarulhos, which is the main gateway, but we didn't have a great network so far in Rio International. And from this winter season and on, we are going to provide, let's say, a sizable beyond point from Rio International, and I'm sure that we will be contributing a lot to the American Airlines flights in Brazil. And they will probably stay with their flights for -- in the future. They have seasonal flights and for now, and I'm sure they will be seeing a lot of traffic going from Gol.

好的。傑伊，我們正在不斷審視如何改善與美國航空的合作關係，自從我們簽署協議以來，這種合作關係一直非常牢固。我們很高興美國航空現在增加了飛往巴西的運力。特別是，我們一直在從瓜魯柳斯機場（主要門戶機場）為他們提供大量航班，但到目前為止，我們在裡約國際機場的網路並不完美。從今年冬季開始，我們將從裡約國際機場提供相當大的遠航點，我相信我們將為美國航空在巴西的航班做出巨大貢獻。未來他們可能會繼續保留他們的航班。他們目前有季節性航班，我相信他們會看到大量從戈爾韋國際機場出發的客流量。

We have with them the highest contribution that we already have with a partner in this corridor, which is more than 35% connectivity in most of their flights. So it's pretty strong. It's pretty strong also on the frequent flier in both frequent fliers. Our customers are now really understanding the partnership and flying with us, flying with them, advantages miles. And so we foresee that the flows will continue to increase during next year.

我們與他們的合作貢獻是目前為止我們與該航線合作夥伴中最高的，他們的大多數航班的銜接率超過35%。所以，我們的合作非常強勁。對常旅客來說，我們的合作也同樣強勁。我們的客戶現在非常了解這種合作關係，選擇我們和他們的航班，並累積里程積分。因此，我們預計明年的客流量將持續成長。

Just before the operator, going back to the other analysts, I wanted to have a question. We received some questions on the webcast platform. So I will be handling some of those questions. So first one was coming from [Matt], from one of our investors.

在主持人發言之前，我想問其他分析師一個問題。我們在網路直播平台上收到了一些問題。我會回答其中一些問題。第一個問題來自我們的一位投資者[Matt]。

Can you discuss the yield environment and the competitive landscape? So I would defer to Celso to respond on that one.

您能討論一下收益環境和競爭格局嗎？這個問題我想請 Celso 來回答。

Yes. Thank you, Mario. And I think all the industry now has some sort of hurdling to grow capacity and no matter the fleet. And in our case, we mentioned a lot of the constraints we have right now, and we are facing a very rational environment in terms of yield and how the industry is behaving. We expect the yields to stay at this level. We don't -- of course, it's not our goal to increase fares.

是的，謝謝你，馬裡奧。我認為現在整個航空業在增加運能方面都面臨著一些障礙，無論機隊規模如何。就我們而言，我們提到了目前面臨的許多限制因素，就收益率和產業表現而言，我們正面臨一個非常理性的環境。我們預計收益率將維持在這個水準。當然，我們的目標不是提高票價。

We want to grow, again, bring back planes back to the operation, be more productive with the fleet and give people better access to better fares. That's what we want. But we see that, especially in the next quarters, a very stable environment in the yields and a very rational industry potentially for the first time in many, many years in Brazil, not only in Brazil but also in the region. As we are expanding international, we are also seeing healthy yields on the regional international flights that we do.

我們希望再次實現成長，讓飛機恢復運營，提高機隊的生產力，並讓乘客能夠享受更優惠的票價。這正是我們想要的。但我們看到，尤其是在接下來幾個季度，巴西的殖利率環境將非常穩定，產業也將非常理性，這可能是多年來巴西乃至整個地區首次出現這種情況。隨著我們國際業務的擴張，我們營運的地區國際航班的收益率也非常可觀。

Yes. And there's also another question from the webcast platform on -- can you give us some details about the fuel cost hedge? And what is the percentage of expected yields that is hedged?

是的。網路直播平台上還有一個問題－您能為我們介紹一下燃料成本避險的細節嗎？對沖的預期收益佔比是多少？

So we generally have a more concentration of hedge during the short term. So we have, for the next 2 quarters, 4Q and first Q, something around 30% to 40% hedge ratio. That, of course, hedge activities right now has been something, especially here for the Brazilian lines that is more costly. So we have been focusing much more in terms of the cash usage to the CapEx and to return the essential investments and we have been trying to select most costless instruments that can create some protection for the company, especially in this kind of a very volatile environment where we envision definitely for the fourth quarter, and that's one of the reasons why we kept the guidance for jet fuel per liter unchanged, even though we have some benefit during the second and the third quarter. But we started to see the prices on jet fuel for the 4 quarters.

因此，我們通常在短期內更注重對沖。因此，在接下來的兩個季度（第四季和第一季），我們的對沖比率約為30%到40%。當然，目前的對沖活動已經相當活躍，尤其是在巴西航線上，成本更高。因此，我們更加重視將現金用於資本支出和收回必要的投資，並嘗試選擇成本最低的工具來為公司提供一些保護，尤其是在這種非常動蕩的環境下，我們預計第四季度的情況會如此。這也是我們維持每公升航空燃油指導價格不變的原因之一，儘管我們在第二季和第三季獲得了一些收益。但我們開始關注第四季航空燃油價格。

So beginning of fourth quarter now in October to stay higher than what is the level they produce. So ultimately, that most of the benefits on the first, let's say, 6 months prior to this quarter, it's going to be somehow compensated offset by more upside risk on the oil price going forward. But we have this strong yield environment, very disciplined in terms of the competitors that somehow creates a lower pressure to being so much hedged but we are much more constructive in the next 6 months. And there's also one question that came from Deutsche as our sell-side. He's putting here in the webcast and also getting back to us as well. With exclusivity with Air France-KLM, what does that mean for historical frequent flier problem tied with TAP airport to go? Does that no longer exist?

因此，從現在開始，也就是10月份，第四季的產量將高於目前的產量水準。最終，本季前六個月（比如說）的大部分收益，將以某種方式被未來油價上漲的更多風險所抵消。但我們擁有強勁的收益環境，在競爭對手方面也非常自律，這在某種程度上降低了對沖的壓力，但我們對未來六個月的預期會更加積極。還有一個問題來自我們的賣方德意志銀行。他在網路直播中提出了這個問題，也回覆了我們。與法國航空荷航集團達成獨家代理協議後，這對與TAP機場相關的歷史性常旅客計畫問題意味著什麼？這個問題會消失嗎？

Thank you again for your question. And as I said, no changes in the TAP agreements, Air Portugal that we have today. TAP is a great partner. They are, I mean, very big in Brazil, flying to many gateways, and we are going to continue our partnership, our codeshare and also the frequent flier with them.

再次感謝您的提問。正如我所說，我們與葡萄牙航空（TAP）的協議沒有任何變化。 TAP 是個很好的合作夥伴。他們在巴西的業務非常龐大，飛往許多門戶城市。我們將繼續與他們保持合作夥伴關係，共享代碼，並保持常旅客計劃。

Our next question comes from Gabriel Rezende from Itau BBA.

我們的下一個問題來自 Itau BBA 的 Gabriel Rezende。

I have just a quick follow-up regarding the delay to receive the aircraft from Boeing. So it is clear that you mentioned that you have some ground aircraft that are generating lease expenses not tied to revenue generation, and that is weighing on your cash flow. And you mentioned that this should also weigh on the gas figures looking forward.

關於波音飛機延遲接收的問題，我只想簡單跟進一下。您之前提到，你們有一些地面飛機的租賃費用與收入無關，這給你們的現金流帶來了壓力。您之前也提到，這也會對未來的燃油數據造成壓力。

I would just like to confirm that we should see maybe a spike on maintenance expenses in the coming quarters because of these effects. I mean you're going to have to return these aircraft do some maintenance, some work on them to return them following your checklist and that we should see these higher maintenance expenses. Is that going to be one of the negative effects you're going to have because of this idle capacity?

我想確認的是，由於這些影響，未來幾季維護費用可能會大幅增加。我的意思是，你們需要將這些飛機返還，進行一些維護，按照你們的檢查清單進行一些維修，這樣維護費用就會增加。這會是產能閒置帶來的負面影響之一嗎？

Gabriel, it's -- as you can see in -- even in this quarter, which is a very robust results that we are delivering, but it has already the impact of 4 lease returns on the cost side, and that will probably continue. As we grow, we are looking to every airplane sit down with the lessor and say, "Look, can we bring those this plane back to the operation? Can we extend that lease? Can we invest in the right CapEx, invest on the engines and stay flying these NG or let's return?" So we are doing this and the other moving piece is the deliveries that we have very low visibility so far. That's why it's something that we are managing in the like 2-month time frame rolling basis. So we go and say, look, those are the candidates to bring those planes back to fly. We sit down with the lessor try to have a negotiation to return or to make sure we can fly those airplanes or we can take a MAX and return those planes.

加布里埃爾，如您所見，即使在本季度，我們取得了非常強勁的業績，但這已經對成本方面產生了4架飛機的租賃返還影響，而且這種情況可能還會持續下去。隨著我們的發展，我們希望每架飛機都能與租賃商坐下來商討：“我們能不能讓這架飛機重新投入運營？我們能不能延長租期？我們能不能投資合適的資本支出，投資發動機，繼續飛行這些NG飛機，或者讓我們重新飛行？” 所以我們正在這樣做。另一個關鍵因素是交付情況，到目前為止，我們對交付情況的預期非常低。這就是為什麼我們以大約2個月為一個週期進行滾動管理。所以我們會說，看看，這些都是讓這些飛機重新飛行的候選機型。我們會與租賃商坐下來，嘗試進行談判，以確保我們能夠繼續飛行這些飛機，或者我們可以選擇一架MAX飛機並返還這些飛機。

The level of maintenance will continue to be impacting the cost as we saw this quarter. I don't think it's going to be much bigger than what it was in the quarter. But also, there is the challenge on the CapEx side, if we decide to return more planes than to fulfill the gap on the deliveries. And that's what Mario answered before. We are budgeting 2024 to make sure that we have enough room to address those engines, sit down with lessors, with MROs to have more ability to finance those CapEx. That's what we are doing right now and working with new engine facilities, especially with the Brazilian government to make sure we can address a higher CapEx than we usually face. So cost and also CapEx will be impacted, especially in the next 12 months.

正如我們本季所見，維護水準將繼續影響成本。我認為影響不會比本季大很多。但是，如果我們決定退回的飛機數量超過彌補交付缺口的數量，資本支出方面也面臨挑戰。馬裡奧之前也回答過這個問題。我們正在製定2024年的預算，以確保有足夠的空間來處理這些引擎問題，並與租賃商和維護、維修和大修（MRO）公司協商，以增強我們為這些資本支出提供資金的能力。這就是我們目前正在做的事情，我們正在與新的引擎工廠合作，特別是與巴西政府合作，以確保我們能夠應對比通常更高的資本支出。因此，成本和資本支出都會受到影響，尤其是在未來12個月。

Yes. I just wanted to add, Gabriel, the following. If you remember, we have been -- we provisioned some of the return costs, the maintenance return costs in our balance sheet back in -- by the end of 2021. So of course, part of that impact is going to be compensated, not all because the provision is prorated as long as the cycles we're going to start to be constituted. So given that we anticipated some of the deliveries of the aircraft in 2025 and 2026 and now we are anticipating some of the returns as one of the big efforts that we're doing in order to rebalance our fleet and recovering the efficiency and also the productivity, we have been impacted by these higher costs going forward.

是的。加布里埃爾，我只想補充以下幾點。如果您還記得的話，我們已經在2021年底的資產負債表中提列了部分返修成本和維護返修成本。當然，部分影響將得到補償，但並非全部，因為只要我們開始建造週期，這些準備金就會按比例分配。鑑於我們預計部分飛機將在2025年和2026年交付，現在我們正在預計部分返修成本，這是我們為重新平衡機隊、恢復效率和生產力所做的重大努力之一，這些更高的成本未來將對我們產生影響。

And at the same time, the potential profits on gains for the new deliveries now we have some uncertainty. So that has been driving the results to be temporarily -- with the cost temporarily increased from what we previously forecasted. But at the same time, what you probably can think is that at the same time, we are doing that effort in terms of reducing that idleness and we can potentially start to have some impacts on the P&L on the maintenance line.

同時，新交付飛機的潛在利潤現在也存在一些不確定性。這導致業績暫時——成本暫時高於我們先前的預測。但同時，您可能想到的是，我們正在努力減少閒置率，這可能會開始對維護線的損益產生一些影響。

At the same time, on the cash flow perspective, as we mentioned before, we are also paying right now some inefficient drag related to leases with no aircraft available. We also -- we need to perform into additional leases for spare engines and maintenance reserves. So everything that in order to address that impact on the maintenance going forward, we can expect that we can also compensate or offset that cost impact going forward with a lower drag in the cash flow, at the same time to have a more neutral scenario because we are fixing that issue now, right? So that's only another way to think in terms of cash flow impact.

同時，從現金流的角度來看，正如我們之前提到的，我們目前仍在支付一些與沒有可用飛機的租賃相關的低效拖累。我們還需要額外租賃備用引擎和維護儲備。因此，為了應對未來維護成本的影響，我們可以預期，我們可以透過降低現金流的拖累來補償或抵消未來的成本影響，同時，由於我們現在正在解決這個問題，因此可以獲得更中性的方案，對嗎？這只是從現金流影響的角度來思考的另一種方式。

Our next question comes from Diego Villalobos from Moneda Asset.

我們的下一個問題來自 Moneda Asset 的 Diego Villalobos。

I just want to follow up in the lessors topic. Could you update us on the situation within the negotiations? How that been, any updates? And what are you seeing as the main bottlenecks? And the second question is regarding the 2024 and 2025 maturities. What are you expecting to confront those? And are there any plans there?

我想繼續討論一下出租人的問題。能否介紹一下談判的最新情況？進展如何？您認為主要的瓶頸是什麼？第二個問題是關於2024年和2025年到期的租船合約。您預計會如何應對這些情況？有什麼計劃嗎？

So on the lessor side, we continue to talk with all the lessors. We have 25 lessors. And to address, I mean, the accumulated liabilities that we have on the leasing side, most of them reflected as lease deferrals that we -- of course, we are trying to negotiate to push to the right. But also, we are discussing with lessors now. I mean, how can we address the end of leasing compensation of the airplanes, especially the planes that we are not flying and also maintenance facilities that we are discussing to how can we address the engine. So I think ourselves and the lessors, we don't want to have planes on the ground here or any other places. So we are going lessor by lessor, especially with the ones that have the situation of engines and planes on the ground to make sure we can address a way and expedite the way without a tremendous cash burn all at once. So the negotiations are improving. We have -- I mean, it takes time. So we have been in this since last year when we issued the SAN. It takes time, but we are -- I mean, we are making progress with them.

因此，在租賃方方面，我們繼續與所有租賃方進行溝通。我們有25家租賃方。為了解決租賃方累積的負債問題，其中大部分都體現在租賃延期上，我們當然正在努力透過談判推動這項進程。同時，我們也在與租賃方進行討論。我的意思是，我們如何解決飛機租賃終止補償的問題，尤其是那些我們目前沒有飛行的飛機，以及我們正在討論的維修設施問題，以及如何解決引擎問題。所以我認為，我們和租賃方都不希望飛機停飛在這裡或任何其他地方。因此，我們正在逐一與租賃方溝通，特別是與那些發動機和飛機停飛的租賃方，以確保我們能夠找到解決辦法並加快進度，而不會一次性造成巨大的現金損失。所以，談判正在取得進展。這需要時間。所以，自去年發布SAN以來，我們就一直在做這件事。這需要時間，但是我們——我的意思是，我們正在與他們一起取得進展。

Yes, for the second question related to the outstanding amount on the bonds, Diego, as you know, the 2024, we have already reduced the spring maturity risk. So now the outstanding amount is below BRL 42 million, and that, of course, have the shortest maturity in the middle of next year. And the '25 and '26 are still 2 years into the maturity. So the point is that we are focused on now on putting the company back on track in terms of operational performance and also that resolving most of that capacity plus the CapEx issue that is something that if we can fix that company will be behaving much better in terms of their financial performance, right?

是的，關於第二個問題，關於債券未償還金額，迭戈，正如您所知，我們已經降低了2024年債券春季到期的風險。所以現在未償還金額低於4,200萬巴西雷亞爾，當然，最短的債券到期日是在明年年中。而2025年和2026年公債還有兩年到期。所以，我們現在的重點是讓公司的營運表現重回正軌，同時解決大部分產能和資本支出問題。如果我們能解決這個問題，公司的財務表現就會好得多，對嗎？

Because something that I wanted to highlight is that we are producing that EBIT and EBITDA generation even carrying this drag in our balance sheet. So we really understand that with the efforts and this very good work with our team, we kind of really been outperforming our results when we have this CapEx and capacity being addressed. So that's our main priority right now. And of course, if that happened, we can turn it into higher margins, better cash flow. And when the scenario will happen, we will drive to all alternatives that Gol has available that we can access wherever it's going to be the best way to address all those '25, '26 bonds. So this is far away right now.

因為我想強調的是，即使資產負債表中存在這些拖累，我們仍然實現了息稅前利潤 (EBIT) 和息稅折舊攤提前利潤 (EBITDA)。所以我們非常清楚，憑藉團隊的努力和出色工作，在解決資本支出和產能問題後，我們的業績確實超乎預期。這是我們目前的首要任務。當然，如果真的實現了，我們可以將其轉化為更高的利潤率和更好的現金流。當這種情況發生時，我們將積極探索戈爾公司所有可用的替代方案，這將是解決所有25年、26年債務問題的最佳途徑。所以現在還很遙遠。

Of course, we try to think what we can do in some anticipation, but this is not the top priority right now or neither the best use of cash at this point in time. So when the time is appropriate, of course, we're going to be discussing that topic. And right now, of course, all the alternatives are on the table, but we need to put the company back on track first. Otherwise, there's no room to discuss anything on the '25, '26 bonds. And the '24, as I mentioned, is pretty much more reduced as a risk, and that's something that we're also going to be handle when we can get into the 2023 results and start to look on '24. (technical difficulty)

當然，我們會嘗試提前思考可以做些什麼，但這並非目前的首要任務，也不是目前現金的最佳用途。所以，在適當的時候，我們當然會討論這個問題。當然，現在所有替代方案都在考慮之中，但我們首先需要讓公司重回正軌。否則，就沒有時間討論2025年和2026年債券了。正如我所提到的，2024年債券的風險要低得多，當我們能夠了解2023年的業績並開始關注2024年時，我們也會處理這個問題。 （技術難題）