Generac Holdings Inc (GNRC) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Thank you for standing by and welcome to Generac Holdings Inc's third quarter 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions)

感謝您的耐心等待，歡迎參加 Generac Holdings Inc. 2025 年第三季財報電話會議。（操作說明）

I would now like to hand the call over to Director of Corporate Finance and Investor Relations, Kris Rosemann. Please go ahead.

現在我將把電話交給企業財務和投資者關係總監克里斯·羅斯曼。請繼續。

Good morning, and welcome to our third quarter 2025 earnings call. I'd like to thank everyone for joining us this morning. With me today is Aaron Jagdfeld, President and Chief Executive Officer; and York Ragen, Chief Financial Officer.

早安，歡迎參加我們2025年第三季財報電話會議。感謝各位今天早上的到來。今天陪同我的是總裁兼執行長 Aaron Jagdfeld 和財務長 York Ragen。

We will begin our call today by commenting on forward-looking statements. Certain statements made during this presentation as well as other information provided from time to time by Generac or its employees may contain forward-looking statements and involve risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those in these forward-looking statements.

我們今天的電話會議將首先對前瞻性陳述進行評述。本次演示中所做的某些陳述以及Generac或其員工不時提供的其他資訊可能包含前瞻性陳述，並涉及風險和不確定性，這些風險和不確定性可能導致實際結果與這些前瞻性陳述中的結果有重大差異。

Please see our earnings release or SEC filings for a list of words or expressions that identify such statements and the associated risk factors. In addition, we will make reference to certain non-GAAP measures during today's call. Additional information regarding these measures, including reconciliation to comparable U.S. GAAP measures, is available in our earnings release and SEC filings.

請參閱我們的獲利報告或向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件，其中列出了識別此類聲明的詞語或表達方式以及相關的風險因素。此外，我們將在今天的電話會議中提及某些非GAAP指標。有關這些措施的更多信息，包括與可比較美國通用會計準則措施的調整，請參閱我們的盈利報告和提交給美國證券交易委員會的文件。

I will now turn the call over to Aaron.

現在我將把通話交給亞倫。

Thanks, Kris. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. Home standby and portable generator shipments grew sequentially in the quarter but were below seasonal expectations as a result of a power outage environment that was significantly below our long-term baseline average and the lowest third quarter of total outage hours that we've experienced since 2015.

謝謝你，克里斯。各位早安，感謝大家今天收看我們的節目。家用備用發電機和便攜式發電機的出貨量在本季度環比增長，但低於季節性預期，原因是停電環境遠低於我們的長期基準平均水平，並且是自 2015 年以來第三季度總停電時間最低的一次。

On a year-over-year basis, overall net sales decreased 5% to $1.11 billion. Residential net sales declined 13% as compared to the prior year quarter with softness in home standby and portable generators, partially offset by strong growth in sales of residential energy technology solutions.

與去年同期相比，總淨銷售額下降 5% 至 11.1 億美元。住宅淨銷售額較上年同期下降 13%，家用備用發電機和便攜式發電機的銷售疲軟，但住宅能源技術解決方案的強勁銷售成長部分抵消了這一影響。

Global C&I product sales also increased 9% during the quarter, led by growth in the domestic telecom and industrial distributor channels as well as international markets, which included the first shipments of our large megawatt generators to data center customers. Our significant momentum in the data center market has continued with our backlog for these products now doubling to over $300 million over the last 90 days, with even greater opportunities developing in our growing sales pipeline.

本季全球工商業產品銷售額也成長了 9%，這主要得益於國內電信和工業分銷管道以及國際市場的成長，其中包括我們向資料中心客戶首次交付的大型兆瓦發電機。我們在資料中心市場的強勁勢頭仍在繼續，過去 90 天內，這些產品的積壓訂單翻了一番，超過 3 億美元，而且在我們不斷增長的銷售渠道中，還有更大的機會正在湧現。

Now, discussing our third quarter results in more detail. Third quarter home standby shipments and activations increased sequentially from the second quarter, but shipments decreased at a mid-teens rate on a year-over-year basis as a result of the significantly weaker outage environment in the current year period as well as the strong prior year period that included the benefit of multiple landed hurricanes. The historically low outage activity in the quarter was broad-based with all regions declining as compared to the prior year and resulted in portable generator sales also declining on a year-over-year basis.

現在，讓我們更詳細地討論一下我們第三季的業績。第三季家用備用電源的出貨量和啟動量較第二季增加，但由於本年度停電環境明顯減弱，以及去年同期強勁的停電環境（包括多次颶風登陸帶來的益處），出貨量較去年同期下降了十幾個百分點。本季停電活動處於歷史低位，且影響範圍廣泛，所有地區的停電活動均比去年同期下降，導致便攜式發電機銷量也較去年同期下降。

Home consultations for home standby generators also increased sequentially from the second quarter, but declined year-over-year during the third quarter. Although the seasonally higher levels of IHCs that we would have normally seen did not materialize this year, home consultations held a solid baseline level with the ratio of home consultations to outage hours at the highest level since we began tracking these metrics more than a decade ago.

家用備用發電機上門諮詢量較第二季增加，但第三季年減。雖然今年我們通常會看到的季節性較高的 IHC 水平並沒有出現，但家庭諮詢量保持了穩定的基線水平，家庭諮詢量與停電小時數的比率達到了自十多年前我們開始跟踪這些指標以來的最高水平。

We view the relative resilience of the home standby category as further evidence of continued growing awareness for these products and the underlying demand we continue to see as representative of a new and higher baseline level following the elevated outage environment of 2024, despite the very low level of outages seasonally in the third quarter. Our expanded investments in our marketing and lead generation capabilities as well as our solid execution and optimization of promotional campaigns also provided important support for the home standby demand during the quarter.

我們認為家用備用電源類別的相對韌性進一步證明了人們對這些產品的認識不斷提高，並且我們認為，儘管第三季度季節性停電水平很低，但潛在需求仍然代表著在 2024 年高停電環境下，新的更高基線水平。我們在行銷和潛在客戶開發能力方面的加大投入，以及促銷活動的穩健執行和優化，也為本季家庭備用電源需求提供了重要支援。

Importantly, close rates improved substantially on a sequential basis and came in better than expected during the quarter with strong momentum continuing here in the month of October. We remain focused on initiatives to support ongoing improvements in close rates such as further increased awareness of financing alternatives and optimize sales tools and training for our partners.

重要的是，成交率環比大幅提高，本季表現優於預期，且強勁勢頭在 10 月得以延續。我們將繼續專注於各項舉措，以支持成交率的持續提高，例如進一步提高對融資方案的認識，並優化我們合作夥伴的銷售工具和培訓。

We also attribute the recent improvement in close rates to a significant change in our approach to distributing leads to our dealers through the implementation of an enhanced data-driven process that allows our dealers to select or pull which leads they prefer to pursue as opposed to the previous push approach, which distributed leads directly to specific dealers based on certain criteria.

我們認為，近期成交率的提高也歸功於我們向經銷商分配銷售線索方式的重大改變，即實施了增強型數據驅動流程，使經銷商能夠選擇或提取他們更願意跟進的銷售線索，而不是像以前那樣，根據某些標準將銷售線索直接分配給特定的經銷商。

The new lead process allows a wider pool of dealers with higher close rates, the ability to select which leads they believe they have capacity to address. We believe the resulting improvement in close rates will further optimize our customer acquisition costs and lead to a broader distribution of sales leads across our residential dealer base.

新的線索處理流程允許更多經銷商參與，成交率更高，並能夠選擇他們認為自己有能力跟進的線索。我們相信，成交率的提高將進一步優化我們的客戶獲取成本，並使我們住宅經銷商群中的銷售線索分佈得更廣。

Our residential dealer network continued to expand during the quarter as our dealer count reached nearly 9,400, an increase of approximately 100 from the prior quarter and an increase of nearly 300 dealers over the prior year. We view this continued strength in contractor interest in the product category as evidence of the growing underlying demand for backup power solutions despite the softer outage environment.

本季度，我們的住宅經銷商網路持續擴張，經銷商數量達到近 9,400 家，比上一季增加了約 100 家，比前一年增加了近 300 家。我們認為，承包商對該產品類別的持續濃厚興趣，證明了儘管停電環境有所緩和，但對備用電源解決方案的潛在需求仍在不斷增長。

In addition, our aligned contractor program, which targets contractors that purchase our products through wholesale distribution, has also continued to grow and provides for incremental engagement, training and installation bandwidth through this important distribution channel.

此外，我們針對透過批發分銷管道購買我們產品的承包商的合作承包商計畫也持續發展，並透過此重要的分銷管道提供增量參與、培訓和安裝能力。

Also during the third quarter, we began the initial shipments of our next-generation home standby generator product line, which represents the most comprehensive platform update for the category in more than a decade. The new product rollout will continue in the fourth quarter with our first shipments of the higher end of the product range, including the market's first 28-kilowatt air-cooled home standby generator. This new product line features the lowest total cost of ownership available driven by reduced installation and maintenance costs as well as introducing industry-leading sound levels and the best fuel efficiency of any residential generator on the market today.

第三季度，我們開始首次出貨下一代家用備用發電機產品線，這是十多年來該類別最全面的平台更新。第四季我們將繼續推出新產品，首批高階產品將陸續出貨，其中包括市場上首款 28 千瓦風冷式家用備用發電機。這個新產品系列具有最低的總擁有成本，這得益於其降低的安裝和維護成本，同時還擁有業界領先的噪音水平和目前市場上所有家用發電機中最佳的燃油效率。

The next-generation platform, together with our new Field Pro application also offers a number of important benefits for our channel partners, including significantly lower commissioning times and improved remote diagnostics, enabling operational efficiencies for their businesses and greater uptime and cost savings for their customers.

下一代平台以及我們全新的 Field Pro 應用程式也為我們的通路合作夥伴帶來了許多重要好處，包括顯著縮短調試時間和改進遠端診斷，從而提高其業務運營效率，並為其客戶帶來更高的正常運行時間和成本節省。

Moving to residential energy technology solutions. Sales of these products and services outperformed our expectations once again and grew at a significant rate during the quarter, led by shipments of energy storage systems in Puerto Rico.

轉向住宅能源技術解決方案。這些產品和服務的銷售額再次超出預期，並在本季度實現了顯著增長，其中波多黎各儲能係統的出貨量增長尤為顯著。

Our team continues to execute extremely well alongside our partners on this energy grant-related program, which is expected to drive continued strong residential energy technology sales growth into the fourth quarter. Our ecobee team continued to drive that business forward and delivered another profitable quarter with significant gross margin improvement and operating leverage as a result of continued strong sales growth and disciplined cost control.

我們的團隊與合作夥伴在這個能源補助相關項目上繼續保持著非常出色的執行力，預計這將推動住宅能源技術銷售在第四季度繼續保持強勁增長。我們的 ecobee 團隊繼續推動業務向前發展，並實現了另一個盈利季度，毛利率和營運槓桿率均顯著提高，這得益於持續強勁的銷售成長和嚴格的成本控制。

Additionally, ecobee's installed base grew to approximately 4.75 million connected homes with increased energy services and subscription sales supporting a growing high-margin recurring revenue stream. We expect ecobee to deliver positive EBITDA contribution for the full year, a key milestone for the strategically important part of our business.

此外，ecobee 的安裝用戶群成長至約 475 萬戶連網家庭，能源服務和訂閱銷售額的成長支撐了不斷增長的高利潤經常性收入流。我們預計 ecobee 將在全年實現正的 EBITDA 貢獻，這對於我們業務中具有戰略意義的重要組成部分而言是一個關鍵里程碑。

As we begin launching new energy storage, microinverter and home standby products that are integrated with the ecobee's platform during the second half of this year, we are intent on delivering a premium feature set and user experience, which we believe will be an important differentiator for our growing residential energy ecosystem.

今年下半年，我們將開始推出與 ecobee 平台整合的新型儲能、微型逆變器和家用備用電源產品，我們致力於提供優質的功能和用戶體驗，我們相信這將是我們不斷發展的住宅能源生態系統的重要差異化因素。

We also made significant progress in our solar and storage product development efforts during the third quarter as we began shipping PowerCell 2, our next-generation energy storage system and introduced PowerMicro, our solar microinverter that will begin shipping by the end of this year. As we close out 2025, we are focused on leveraging these new products as well as our distribution and marketing capabilities to drive market share gains and significant sales growth in the future.

第三季度，我們在太陽能和儲能產品開發方面也取得了重大進展，我們開始交付下一代儲能係統 PowerCell 2，並推出了太陽能微型逆變器 PowerMicro，該產品將於今年年底開始交付。2025 年即將結束，我們將專注於利用這些新產品以及我們的分銷和行銷能力，以推動市場份額的成長，並在未來實現顯著的銷售成長。

As appropriate, however, we intend to recalibrate our investment levels to reflect the completion of our energy grant program in Puerto Rico and to adjust for a broader market environment that is likely to contract in 2026 as a result of the substantial reduction in federal incentives for solar and storage technologies. Although we see this market contracting in the near term, we believe that the secular trends of rising power prices and declining component costs are creating a situation where the economics of residential solar and storage technologies will provide for an attractive long-term market opportunity regardless of the level of government incentives.

不過，我們將視情況調整投資水平，以反映我們在波多黎各的能源補助計劃的完成情況，並調整更廣泛的市場環境，該市場環境可能會在 2026 年因聯邦政府大幅減少對太陽能和儲能技術的激勵措施而萎縮。儘管我們認為短期內該市場會萎縮，但我們相信，電力價格上漲和零件成本下降的長期趨勢正在創造一種局面，即無論政府激勵措施的力度如何，住宅太陽能和儲能技術的經濟效益都將提供一個有吸引力的長期市場機會。

Now let me provide some additional commentary on our commercial and industrial product categories, where we continue to see year-over-year sales growth, which accelerated during the third quarter. In particular, sales to our domestic industrial distributor customers increased at a solid rate in the period as we further reduce the lead times for our C&I products. Our teams have been working hard to increase production rates over the last 18 months by bringing our new facility in Beaver Dam, Wisconsin online earlier this year. And as a result, we have successfully brought our lead times down to more historically normal levels.

現在讓我對我們的商業和工業產品類別做一些補充說明，在這些類別中，我們繼續看到銷售額年增，並且在第三季加速成長。尤其值得一提的是，隨著我們進一步縮短工商業產品的交貨週期，在此期間，我們對國內工業分銷商客戶的銷售額穩步增長。在過去的 18 個月裡，我們的團隊一直努力提高生產力，並在今年稍早將位於威斯康辛州比佛丹的新工廠投入使用。因此，我們已成功將交貨週期縮短至更接近歷史正常水準。

In addition to our operational execution in the quarter, our efforts to further develop our distribution partners, both owned and independent, have helped to expand our share of the domestic backup power generation market over the last several years.

除了本季的營運執行外，我們為進一步發展自有和獨立分銷合作夥伴所做的努力，也幫助我們在過去幾年中擴大了國內備用電源市場的份額。

In addition to the growth in our industrial distribution channel, shipments to national telecom customers also grew at a robust rate in the third quarter compared to the prior year as part of the ongoing recovery for this important channel during 2025. We continue to expect the growing dependence on wireless communication and additional infrastructure required enhanced reliability to provide a solid backdrop for secular growth in sales of C&I products to our telecom customers into the future.

除了工業分銷通路的成長外，與去年同期相比，第三季對全國電信客戶的出貨量也實現了強勁成長，這是該重要通路在 2025 年持續復甦的一部分。我們繼續預期，對無線通訊的日益依賴以及對更高可靠性的基礎設施的需求，將為未來我們面向電信客戶的工商業產品銷售的長期增長提供堅實的基礎。

Mobile product shipments to national and independent rental customers outperformed our prior expectations and increased on a sequential basis, which we view as signaling the beginning of a recovery for this market. We anticipate favorable momentum to continue building in the coming quarters for our mobile products, and we continue to believe we are well positioned for long-term growth given the mega-trend around the infrastructure-related investments needed both domestically and internationally that leverage our global portfolio of mobile products.

面向全國和獨立租賃客戶的行動產品出貨量超出了我們先前的預期，並且環比成長，我們認為這標誌著該市場開始復甦。我們預計未來幾季行動產品將繼續保持良好的成長勢頭，並且我們仍然相信，鑑於國內外基礎設施相關投資的巨大趨勢，我們憑藉全球行動產品組合，已做好長期成長的準備。

Internationally, total sales increased 11%, driven by continued strength in C&I product shipments in Europe and the first shipments of our large megawatt generators to a data center customer in Australia. International sales continue to benefit from the favorable impact of foreign currency, which we expect will continue in the fourth quarter.

國際市場總銷售額成長了 11%，這主要得益於歐洲 C&I 產品出貨量的持續強勁成長，以及我們向澳洲資料中心客戶首次交付了大型兆瓦發電機。國際銷售持續受益於外匯匯率的有利影響，我們預計這一趨勢將在第四季度繼續。

Additionally, international EBITDA margins expanded at a strong rate from the prior year due to favorable sales mix. Our initiative to penetrate the large and rapidly growing data center market continued to gain momentum with initial shipments in international markets beginning during the third quarter. And as we saw our global backlog of large megawatt generators for this important end market doubled to more than $300 million over the last 90 days.

此外，由於銷售組合有利，國際 EBITDA 利潤率較上年強勁成長。我們進軍龐大且快速成長的資料中心市場的舉措持續取得進展，第三季開始在國際市場進行首次出貨。在過去的 90 天裡，我們看到面向這一重要終端市場的全球大型兆瓦發電機的積壓訂單翻了一番，超過 3 億美元。

The first domestic shipments of these new large output generators began here in the month of October, and we are projecting strong sequential growth in sales to the data center end market during the fourth quarter. The large majority of our backlog is expected to ship in 2026, providing a meaningful tailwind for overall C&I product growth in the coming year. Importantly, we continue to develop a robust pipeline of new opportunities within the data center market that represents significant upside for our C&I product in 2027 and beyond.

這些新型大功率發電機的首批國內出貨已於 10 月開始，我們預計第四季面向資料中心終端市場的銷售額將實現強勁的環比成長。我們積壓的大部分訂單預計將在 2026 年交付，這將為來年 C&I 產品的整體成長提供顯著的推動力。重要的是，我們持續在資料中心市場開發強大的新機會管道，這代表著我們的 C&I 產品在 2027 年及以後具有巨大的成長潛力。

Data center power demand is forecasted to grow at a significant rate for the foreseeable future. And the high uptime requirements of these facilities drives backup power needs in excess of site electricity consumption. Third-party estimates suggest that global data center power demand will cumulatively grow by more than 100 gigawatts over the next five years, with the potential for incremental annual capacity additions to double by the end of this decade.

在可預見的未來，資料中心電力需求預計將以顯著的速度成長。這些設施對正常運作時間的高要求，導致備用電源需求超過了現場用電量。第三方估計表明，未來五年全球資料中心電力需求將累積成長超過 100 吉瓦，到本十年末，年度新增容量有可能翻一番。

Additionally, further global market opportunities exist for large megawatt generators within our traditional end markets, in particular, providing backup power for large manufacturers, cold chain distribution centers, health care facilities and other critical infrastructure that have higher backup power requirements.

此外，大型兆瓦發電機在我們傳統的終端市場中還有更大的全球市場機會，特別是為大型製造商、冷鏈配送中心、醫療保健機構和其他對備用電源要求較高的關鍵基礎設施提供備用電源。

Given the existing supply constraints within the high end of the C&I backup power generator market, large megawatt generators represent a massive opportunity for Generac as a long-standing well-known participant in the C&I backup power markets.

鑑於目前工商業備用電源發電機市場高端供應受限，大型兆瓦發電機對於在工商業備用電源市場長期享有盛譽的 Generac 而言，代表著巨大的機會。

In addition to our highly competitive lead times, we believe that our strong reputation as an engineering-driven organization that is uniquely focused on backup power with a customer-centric approach and world-class service capabilities will allow us to gain share in the data center backup power market as well as our traditional end markets.

除了我們極具競爭力的交貨週期外，我們相信，我們作為一家以工程技術為驅動、專注於備用電源、以客戶為中心的企業，憑藉其世界一流的服務能力，在數據中心備用電源市場以及傳統終端市場中享有盛譽，這將使我們能夠獲得市場份額。

Given the momentum in our sales pipeline and the significant incremental market opportunity we see in the future, we have been actively exploring further investments to aggressively expand our competitive positioning and increase our capacity and capabilities for these products. We expect to undertake several important capacity expansion-related projects and investments during the fourth quarter to position Generac as a significant producer of these products well beyond 2026 and to support what we believe could be a potential doubling of our C&I product sales over the next three to five years.

鑑於我們銷售管道的良好勢頭以及我們未來看到的巨大市場成長機會，我們一直在積極探索進一步投資，以積極擴大我們的競爭地位，並提高我們這些產品的產能和能力。我們預計將在第四季度開展幾個重要的產能擴張相關項目和投資，以使 Generac 在 2026 年以後繼續成為這些產品的重要生產商，並支持我們認為在未來三到五年內工商業產品銷售額可能翻一番的目標。

In closing this morning, our third quarter results and our lower residential sales outlook reflect a historically weak power outage environment. However, the mega-trends that support our future growth potential remain intact as lower power quality and higher power prices will be an ongoing challenge given the more frequent and severe weather patterns as well as broader electrification trends. And at the same time, the massive increase in data center power demand is expected to further stress the already fragile power grid by amplifying the growing electricity supply/demand imbalance.

今天上午的總結中，我們的第三季業績和下調的住宅銷售預期反映了歷史上疲軟的停電環境。然而，隨著天氣模式日益頻繁和極端，以及電氣化趨勢的擴大，電力品質下降和電價上漲將持續構成挑戰，支撐我們未來成長潛力的宏觀趨勢仍然保持不變。同時，資料中心電力需求的急劇增長預計將進一步加劇本已脆弱的電網的壓力，加劇日益嚴重的電力供需失衡。

Additionally, we're entering a period of unprecedented growth for our C&I products as the expansion of our product line to include large megawatt generators has allowed for our entry into the rapidly growing data center market. As a leading energy technology company, we believe Generac is uniquely positioned at the center of these mega-trends that have the potential to drive substantial and sustainable growth in the years ahead.

此外，隨著產品線擴展到包括大型兆瓦發電機，我們的工商業產品也進入了前所未有的成長期，這使我們能夠進入快速成長的資料中心市場。作為一家領先的能源技術公司，我們相信 Generac 憑藉其獨特的優勢，處於這些大趨勢的中心，這些趨勢有可能在未來幾年推動實質和永續的成長。

I'll now turn the call over to York to provide further details on third quarter results as well as our updated outlook for 2025. York?

現在我將把電話交給約克，讓他提供第三季業績的更多細節以及我們更新後的 2025 年展望。約克？

Thanks, Aaron. Looking at third quarter 2025 results in more detail. Net sales during the quarter decreased 5% to $1.11 billion as compared to $1.17 billion in the prior year third quarter. The combined effect of acquisitions in foreign currency had an approximate 1% favorable impact on revenue growth during the quarter. We believe looking at consolidated net sales for the third quarter by product class, residential product sales decreased 13% to $627 million as compared to $723 million in the prior year.

謝謝你，亞倫。更詳細了解2025年第三季的業績。本季淨銷售額下降 5% 至 11.1 億美元，而去年同期為 11.7 億美元。本季以外幣計價的收購對收入成長產生了約 1% 的有利影響。我們認為，從第三季按產品類別劃分的合併淨銷售額來看，住宅產品銷售額較上年同期的 7.23 億美元下降了 13%，至 6.27 億美元。

As Aaron discussed in detail, a significantly lower power outage environment as compared to the prior year resulted in a decline in home standby and portable generator shipments. This was partially offset by robust year-over-year growth in sales of energy storage systems and ecobee home energy management solutions.

正如 Aaron 詳細討論的那樣，與前一年相比，停電情況明顯減少，導致家用備用發電機和便攜式發電機的出貨量下降。能源儲存系統和 ecobee 家庭能源管理解決方案的銷售額同比增長強勁，部分抵消了這一影響。

Commercial & Industrial product sales for the third quarter increased 9% to $358 million as compared to $328 million in the prior year. Core sales growth of approximately 6% was driven by an increase in shipments to our domestic telecom customers, together with a strong growth in Europe and initial shipments of our new large megawatt generators to a data center customer in Australia, partially offset by continued weakness in shipments to national rental accounts.

第三季商業和工業產品銷售額成長9%，達3.58億美元，去年同期為3.28億美元。核心銷售成長約 6%，這主要得益於國內電信客戶的出貨量增加，以及歐洲市場的強勁成長，還有我們向澳洲資料中心客戶首次交付的新型大型兆瓦發電機，但部分被面向全國租賃客戶的出貨量持續疲軟所抵銷。

Net sales for the other products and services category increased approximately 5% to $129 million as compared to $123 million in the third quarter of 2024. Core sales increased approximately 3%, primarily due to growth in ecobee and remote monitoring subscription sales and other installation and maintenance services revenue, partially offset by a reduction in parts and accessory shipments given the lower outage environment.

其他產品和服務類別的淨銷售額成長約 5%，達到 1.29 億美元，而 2024 年第三季為 1.23 億美元。核心銷售成長約 3%，主要得益於 ecobee 和遠端監控訂閱銷售以及其他安裝和維護服務收入的成長，但由於停機環境減少，零件和配件出貨量有所下降，部分抵消了核心銷售額的成長。

Gross profit margin was 38.3% compared to 40.2% in the prior year third quarter, primarily due to unfavorable sales mix, together with the impact of higher tariffs and manufacturing under absorption, partially offset by increased price realization as a result of price increases implemented earlier in the year to address the impact of incremental tariffs.

毛利率為 38.3%，而去年同期為 40.2%，主要原因是銷售組合不利，以及關稅上漲和生產未消化的影響，部分被年初為應對關稅上漲而實施的價格上漲所抵消。

Operating expenses increased $20.2 million or 6.7% as compared to the third quarter of 2024 as a result of certain legal and regulatory charges in the current year as disclosed in the accompanying reconciliation schedules. Excluding these items, which are not indicative of our ongoing operations, operating expenses decreased $0.6 million or 0.2% from the prior year.

由於本年度某些法律和監管費用（詳見隨附的調節表），營業費用較 2024 年第三季增加 2,020 萬美元，增幅為 6.7%。在剔除這些無法反映我們持續經營狀況的項目後，營運費用比前一年減少了 60 萬美元，降幅為 0.2%。

Adjusted EBITDA before deducting for noncontrolling interests, as defined in our earnings release, was $193 million or 17.3% of net sales in the third quarter as compared to $232 million or 19.8% of net sales in the prior year. This margin decline was primarily driven by the previously mentioned unfavorable sales mix and the operating expense deleverage on the lower sales volumes.

根據我們的獲利報告，扣除少數股東權益之前的調整後 EBITDA 為 1.93 億美元，佔第三季淨銷售額的 17.3%，而去年同期為 2.32 億美元，佔淨銷售額的 19.8%。利潤率下降的主要原因是前面提到的不利的銷售組合以及銷售量下降導致的營運費用槓桿作用減弱。

I will now briefly discuss financial results for our two reporting segments. Domestic segment total sales, including intersegment sales, decreased 8% to $938 million in the quarter as compared to $1.02 billion in the prior year, including approximately 1% sales growth contribution from acquisitions. Adjusted EBITDA for the segment was $166 million, representing 17.7% of total sales as compared to $212 million in the prior year or 20.7%.

接下來我將簡要介紹我們兩個報告部門的財務表現。本季國內業務總銷售額（包括部門間銷售額）較上年同期下降 8% 至 9.38 億美元，而上年同期為 10.2 億美元，其中收購貢獻了約 1% 的銷售成長。該部門的調整後 EBITDA 為 1.66 億美元，佔總銷售額的 17.7%，而前一年為 2.12 億美元，佔總銷售額的 20.7%。

International segment total sales, including intersegment sales, increased approximately 11%, $185 million in the quarter as compared to $167 million in the prior year quarter, including an approximate 3% benefit from foreign currency. Adjusted EBITDA for the segment before deducting for noncontrolling interest was $27 million or 14.8% of total sales as compared to $20 million or 12.2% in the prior year.

國際業務部門總銷售額（包括部門間銷售額）成長約 11%，本季達到 1.85 億美元，而上年同期為 1.67 億美元，其中包括約 3% 的外匯收益。在扣除少數股東權益之前，該業務部門的調整後 EBITDA 為 2,700 萬美元，佔總銷售額的 14.8%，而去年同期為 2,000 萬美元，佔總銷售額的 12.2%。

Now switching back to our financial performance for the third quarter of 2025 on a consolidated basis. As disclosed in our earnings release, GAAP net income for the company in the quarter was $66 million as compared to $114 million for the third quarter of 2024. The current year quarter includes an unfavorable Wallbox fair market value mark-to-market adjustment of $5.7 million and a loss on refinancing of debt of $1.2 million related to our Term Loan A and revolver amend and extend transaction that closed in July 2025.

現在讓我們回到 2025 年第三季的合併財務表現。正如我們在獲利報告中所揭露的那樣，該公司本季的 GAAP 淨收入為 6,600 萬美元，而 2024 年第三季為 1.14 億美元。本季包括 Wallbox 公允市價按市值計價的不利調整 570 萬美元，以及與我們於 2025 年 7 月完成的 A 類定期貸款和循環貸款修訂及延期交易相關的債務再融資損失 120 萬美元。

Our interest expense declined from $22.9 million in the third quarter of last year to $18.5 million in the current year period as a result of lower borrowings and lower interest rates relative to prior year. GAAP income taxes during the current year third quarter were $11.8 million or an effective tax rate of 15% as compared to $33.5 million or an effective tax rate of 22.7% for the prior year. The decrease in effective tax rate was primarily driven by favorable discrete tax items in the current year quarter related to certain return to provision adjustments that did not occur in the prior year.

由於借款減少和利率較上年同期下降，我們的利息支出從去年第三季的 2,290 萬美元下降到本年度的 1,850 萬美元。本年度第三季的 GAAP 所得稅為 1,180 萬美元，實際稅率為 15%，而去年同期為 3,350 萬美元，實際稅率為 22.7%。實際稅率下降主要是由於本年度季度中與某些準備金調整相關的有利的個別稅收項目，而這些調整在上一年並未發生。

Diluted net income per share for the company on a GAAP basis was $1.12 in the third quarter of 2025 compared to $1.89 in the prior year. Adjusted net income for the company, as defined in our earnings release, was $108 million in the current year quarter or $1.83 per share. This compares to adjusted net income of $136 million in the prior year or $2.25 per share.

該公司 2025 年第三季以美國通用會計準則計算的稀釋後每股淨收益為 1.12 美元，而去年同期為 1.89 美元。根據我們在獲利報告中的定義，該公司本季的調整後淨收入為 1.08 億美元，即每股 1.83 美元。相比之下，上一年的調整後淨收入為 1.36 億美元，即每股 2.25 美元。

Cash flow from operations was $118 million as compared to $212 million in the prior year third quarter. And free cash flow as defined in our earnings release was $96 million as compared to $184 million in the same quarter last year. The change in free cash flow was primarily driven by an increase in inventory levels during the current year quarter and lower operating income, which was compounded by a decline in inventory levels during the prior year quarter. Total debt outstanding at the end of the quarter was $1.4 billion, resulting in a gross debt leverage ratio of 1.8 times on an as reported basis.

經營活動產生的現金流量為 1.18 億美元，而去年同期為 2.12 億美元。根據我們的獲利報告，自由現金流為 9,600 萬美元，去年同期為 1.84 億美元。自由現金流的變化主要是由於本季庫存水準上升和營業收入下降所致，而去年同期庫存水準下降又加劇了這一情況。截至季末，未償債務總額為 14 億美元，以報告基準計算，總債務槓桿率為 1.8 倍。

With that, I will now provide comments on our updated outlook for 2025. As discussed by -- as discussed in detail by Aaron, the extremely low outage environment in recent months has resulted in lower demand for home standby and portable generators and a reduction in our full year 2025 outlook for overall net sales growth. We now expect consolidated net sales for the full year to be approximately flat compared to the prior year, which includes an approximate 1% favorable impact from the combination of foreign currency and acquisitions. This updated outlook compares to our previous guidance of plus 2% to 5% net sales growth over the prior year.

接下來，我將對我們更新後的 2025 年展望發表一些看法。正如 Aaron 詳細討論的那樣，近幾個月來極低的停電情況導致家用備用發電機和便攜式發電機的需求下降，也導致我們對 2025 年全年整體淨銷售增長的預期降低。我們現在預計全年合併淨銷售額將與去年基本持平，其中包括外匯匯率和收購帶來的約 1% 的有利影響。此次更新後的展望與我們先前預測的上年淨銷售額成長 2% 至 5% 相比有所變化。

Looking at product classes, we now project full year 2025 residential product sales to decline as compared to the prior year in the mid-single-digit percent range, while C&I product sales are expected to increase as compared to the prior year, also in the mid-single-digit percent range. The resulting sales mix shift is projected to have an unfavorable impact on gross and adjusted EBITDA margins for the year as compared to our prior guidance.

從產品類別來看，我們現在預計 2025 年全年住宅產品銷售額將比前一年下降 5%（個位數百分比），而工商業產品銷售額預計將比上一年增長 5%（個位數百分比）。預計銷售組合的變化將對本年度的毛利率和調整後 EBITDA 利率產生不利影響，與我們先前的預期相比將有所下降。

Specifically, we now expect gross margin percent for full year 2025 to be approximately flat to slightly down compared to the full year 2024 levels. This represents a nearly 1% decrease from our prior expectation of approximately 39.5% as a result of the previously mentioned unfavorable sales mix and lower manufacturing absorption given the lower residential production volumes, together with incremental new product transition and C&I plant start-up costs that are transitory in nature. Additionally, this gross margin guidance assumes that current tariff levels that are in effect today stay in place for the remainder of the year.

具體而言，我們現在預計 2025 年全年毛利率將與 2024 年全年水準大致持平或略有下降。由於前面提到的不利銷售組合和住宅產量下降導致的製造業吸收率降低，以及新產品過渡和工商業工廠啟動成本的增加（這些成本本質上是暫時的），這比我們之前預期的約 39.5% 下降了近 1%。此外，該毛利率預期假設目前生效的關稅水準在今年剩餘時間內保持不變。

Looking at our adjusted EBITDA margin expectations for the full year 2025, given the factors impacting our gross margins, together with additional operating expense deleverage on the lower sales volumes, we are reducing our guidance for adjusted EBITDA percent to approximately 17%. This is compared to our previous guidance range of 18% to 19%.

鑑於影響毛利率的因素，以及銷售下降導致的額外營運費用槓桿作用，我們對 2025 年全年的調整後 EBITDA 利潤率預期進行了調整，並將調整後 EBITDA 百分比的預期下調至約 17%。這與我們之前給出的 18% 至 19% 的預期範圍相比有所變化。

Additionally, as a result of higher use of cash for primary working capital and capital expenditures, free cash flow conversion from adjusted net income is now expected to be approximately 80% for the full year 2025 as compared to the previous guidance range of 90% to 100%. This would still result in approximately $300 million of free cash flow in fiscal 2025, which provides for near-term optionality to allow for additional investments to drive future growth as part of our disciplined and balanced capital allocation framework.

此外，由於主要營運資金和資本支出中現金使用量增加，預計 2025 年全年調整後淨收入的自由現金流轉換率約為 80%，而先前的預期範圍為 90% 至 100%。即使如此，到 2025 財年仍將產生約 3 億美元的自由現金流，這為我們提供了近期選擇權，允許進行額外投資以推動未來成長，這是我們嚴謹平衡的資本配置框架的一部分。

As is our normal practice, we're also providing additional guidance details to assist with modeling adjusted earnings per share and free cash flow for the full year 2025. For full year 2025, our GAAP effective tax rate is now expected to be between 20% to 20.5%, down from our prior guidance of 23% to 23.5% due to the lower realized third quarter tax rate. Specifically for the fourth quarter 2025, our GAAP effective tax rate is expected to be approximately 25%. Importantly, to arrive at appropriate estimates for adjusted net income and adjusted earnings per share, add-back items should be reflected net of tax using this 25% effective tax rate.

按照慣例，我們還將提供更多指導細節，以幫助模擬 2025 年全年的調整後每股盈餘和自由現金流。由於第三季實際稅率較低，我們預計 2025 年全年 GAAP 有效稅率將在 20% 至 20.5% 之間，低於先前預期的 23% 至 23.5%。具體而言，2025 年第四季度，我們的 GAAP 有效稅率預計約為 25%。重要的是，為了得出調整後淨收入和調整後每股收益的適當估計值，應使用 25% 的有效稅率扣除稅款後反映加回項目。

We now expect interest expense to be approximately $70 million to $74 million for the full year 2025, assuming no additional term loan principal prepayments during the year. This compares to our previous guidance of $74 million to $78 million and contemplates lower interest rates and outstanding borrowings than previously assumed.

我們現在預計，2025 年全年的利息支出約為 7,000 萬美元至 7,400 萬美元，假設當年沒有額外的定期貸款本金提前償還。這與我們之前給出的 7400 萬美元至 7800 萬美元的預期相比有所提高，並且考慮到了比之前假設的更低的利率和未償借款。

Our capital expenditures are now projected to be approximately 3.5% of forecasted net sales for the full year 2025, a 0.5% increase from prior guidance as a result of incremental CapEx investment for data center capacity expansion expected in the fourth quarter of 2025.

由於預計在 2025 年第四季將增加資料中心容量擴張的資本支出，我們預計 2025 年全年資本支出將佔預測淨銷售額的 3.5% 左右，比先前的指導值成長 0.5%。

Depreciation expense, GAAP intangible amortization expense and stock compensation expense are expected to remain consistent with last quarter's guidance. Our full year weighted average diluted share count is expected to be approximately 59.4 million to 59.5 million shares as compared to 60.3 million shares in 2024. Finally, this 2025 outlook does not reflect potential additional acquisitions or share repurchases that could drive incremental shareholder value during the year.

預計折舊費用、GAAP無形資產攤銷費用和股權激勵費用將與上季的預期保持一致。我們預計全年加權平均稀釋股份數約為 5,940 萬股至 5,950 萬股，而 2024 年則為 6,030 萬股。最後，這份 2025 年展望並未反映出可能在年內推動股東價值成長的潛在額外收購或股票回購。

This concludes our prepared remarks. At this time, we'd like to open up the call for questions.

我們的發言稿到此結束。現在，我們想開放提問環節。

(Operator Instructions) Tommy Moll, Stephens.

（操作說明）湯米·莫爾，史蒂芬斯。

I want to start on the data center market opportunity, Aaron. What all have you learned thus far in terms of the competitive dynamics there, the size of the opportunity? I think last quarter, you framed it at about $5 billion, the deficit next year. And then just in terms of the types of customers where you're seeing some traction, what's the nature of the conversation with hyperscale at this point? And any orders there in the backlog number that you gave us?

亞倫，我想先從資料中心市場機會入手。就目前的競爭格局和市場機會規模而言，你都了解到了哪些資訊？我認為上個季度你把明年的赤字估計在50億美元左右。那麼，就目前在哪些類型的客戶群中看到了一些進展，與超大規模企業的對話性質是什麼呢？您之前提供的積壓訂單數量裡，有哪些訂單在裡面？

So I mean, obviously, this is just a really unique opportunity for us. The structural deficit of the supply side of backup power for this particular market is as you would imagine, with the foot rate that's ongoing here to put these data center facilities in the ground.

所以，很明顯，這對我們來說是一個非常獨特的機會。正如你所想像的那樣，這個特定市場的備用電源供應方面存在結構性缺口，因為這裡正在以驚人的速度建造這些資料中心設施。

Every single conversation we have with a developer, with a hyperscaler, and edge data center provider, all of those conversations are almost the same in terms of just the difficulties in bringing these facilities online because of some of the constraints. The constraints being in the electrical side of the buildings, transformers, switchgear, generators. All of those components are in heavy demand as you expect. And this is, I think, just from a structural standpoint, it feels like this is going to continue for some time.

我們與開發人員、超大規模資料中心供應商和邊緣資料中心供應商的每一次對話，幾乎都圍繞著由於某些限製而導致這些設施上線困難的問題。限制因素在於建築物的電氣方面，包括變壓器、開關設備和發電機。正如你所預料的，所有這些部件都非常搶手。而且，我認為，從結構角度來看，這種情況似乎還會持續一段時間。

We don't have in our backlog today any orders reflected from any hyperscalers, but we continue to have very productive conversations there. And we're very optimistic as we work to get added to the approved vendor list for these hyperscalers. They are very eager to have additional supply coming to the market. They're very eager to have us be a supplier to the market. Again, I think our brand, we're a trusted brand. We've been in the C&I backup power market for over 50 years.

目前我們的積壓訂單中還沒有任何來自超大規模資料中心營運商的訂單，但我們仍在與他們進行非常有成效的對話。我們非常樂觀，正在努力爭取被列入這些超大規模資料中心的認可供應商名單。他們非常渴望市場上能有更多供應。他們非常希望我們成為他們的市場供應商。再次強調，我認為我們的品牌值得信賴。我們在工商業備用電源市場已有 50 多年的經驗。

And so our expansion into this product line is kind of a -- it's a natural evolution. And it's not some fly-by-night supplier coming into the market. It's somebody who's well known, well capitalized and somebody who is going to be very aggressive, as I said on the call in the prepared remarks. We see a unique opportunity here for us to do something that is kind of generational with the company and with this part of our business.

因此，我們向該產品線的擴張是一種——一種自然的演變。而且它不是什麼曇花一現的供應商。正如我在電話會議的準備好的發言稿中所說，這個人很有名，資金雄厚，而且會非常咄咄逼人。我們看到了一個獨特的機會，可以對公司和我們業務的這一部分做出一些具有世代意義的事情。

And as I said in the prepared remarks, we will have -- we've got a number of balls in the air here that by Q4 -- here in Q4, we're going to have to pull the trigger on a number of things. We've taken up our CapEx guide range slightly. That's part of the front end of this. That's everything from facilities to equipment.

正如我在準備好的演講稿中所說，到第四季度，我們將不得不著手處理一些事情。我們略微擴大了資本支出指南的範圍。這是前期工作的一部分。這包括從設施到設備的一切。

Our M&A funnel has also expanded where we think we could add capabilities and additional capacity through acquisitions. So we're looking at -- basically, we're not leaving any stone uncovered here, Tommy. Again, we have to be aggressive. We have to lean forward and we will capitalize on this in a way that I think -- the market certainly wants us to succeed. Every conversation we've had is to that effect, and we will succeed.

我們的併購管道也已擴大，我們認為可以透過收購來增加能力和產能。所以，基本上，我們這裡什麼都調查清楚了，湯米。我們必須再次採取積極主動的策略。我們必須積極進取，並充分利用這一點，我認為——市場當然希望我們成功。我們每次談話的內容都圍繞著這個主題，我們一定會成功。

This is going to be an area that's right in our wheelhouse. I feel very comfortable and very confident that we can execute on this. Our first shipments, I watched them go out of our factory in Oshkosh, Wisconsin last week, 1.5 weeks ago. Our first shipments went out internationally to a customer here earlier in the month and things are rolling. We've got products online, and we are looking at how can we aggressively expand our capacity by leaning forward with investment in this area of our business.

這正是我們擅長的領域。我感覺非常有信心，也完全有能力完成這項任務。上週，也就是1.5週前，我親眼看著我們的第一批貨物從我們在威斯康辛州奧什科甚的工廠運出。本月初，我們的第一批貨物已發往國內的一位客戶，目前一切進展順利。我們已經有產品上線，我們正在研究如何透過增加對這部分業務的投資來積極擴大產能。

George Gianarikas, Canaccord Genuity.

George Gianarikas，Canaccord Genuity。

Now, I know you're not talking about 2026 just yet, but if you could just sort of help us work through all the moving parts here? Clearly, outages have been weaker. There is a pull from data center generators and there's this -- the roll-off potentially of what's happened so far in Puerto Rico. So how should we sort of think about 2026 broadly with all the moving pieces at play?

我知道你現在還沒談到2026年，但如果你能幫我們理清一下這裡面的各種細節就好了？顯然，停電情況有所減輕。資料中心發電機組會拉動電力供應，而且波多黎各目前的情況可能會出現電力外洩。那麼，考慮到各種不確定因素，我們該如何從整體上展望2026年呢？

Yeah, just kind of -- and again, not giving guidance here, but I think to answer your question, let's start with just from a product category standpoint, our residential products and kind of being down a level deeper there with home standby and portables.

是的，我只是想——再次聲明，我在這裡不提供指導，但我想回答你的問題，讓我們從產品類別的角度開始，從我們的住宅產品開始，再深入到家庭備用和便攜式產品。

Yeah, it was a crappy season, I mean, let's be honest. The weather was really nice everywhere. We've been doing this a long time. We have not seen many 3Qs where we just didn't have outage activity. Like we planned the business around normal baseline outage and we got nowhere near normal. I mean, we were literally 75% to 80% below normal for the quarter, just in raw outage hours. And that's without, obviously, any major events happening either. And obviously, we're comping against majors last year. So just -- it looks bad. It feels bad, but it's temporary.

是啊，這賽季糟透了，說實話。各地天氣都非常好。我們從事這項工作已經很久了。我們很少見到第三季完全沒有故障活動的情況。我們原本計劃根據正常的基準故障情況來安排業務，但實際情況卻遠未達到正常水準。我的意思是，僅就停機時間而言，我們本季的停機時間就比正常水平低了 75% 到 80%。而且，顯然，這還是在沒有發生任何重大事件的情況下。顯然，我們是在跟去年的大牌球隊比較。所以，情況看起來很糟。雖然感覺很糟糕，但這只是暫時的。

I mean we've been through this before. The weather patterns, we don't know what happens with weather. It comes and goes and these outage -- structurally, nothing's changed there. I mean, just you've got -- in fact, I would point to all the structural things from a mega-trend standpoint that we've been talking about only continue to point to less reliability in the grid going forward.

我的意思是，我們以前經歷過這種情況。天氣模式，我們無法預知天氣會發生什麼變化。它時有時無，這些停電——從結構上看，那裡沒有任何變化。我的意思是，事實上，從宏觀趨勢的角度來看，我們一直在討論的所有結構性問題都只會繼續指向電網未來可靠性的下降。

And what's really remarkable, I would just put this out, like -- and we said this in the prepared remarks and people can call what they want. But those product categories, home standby and portals were up sequentially over Q2. So like we're holding that baseline of growth that we achieved last year.

真正令人驚訝的是，我只想說——我們在準備好的演講稿中也說過這一點，人們可以隨意評價。但這些產品類別，包括家庭待機設備和入口網站，在第二季較上季均有所成長。所以，我們保持了去年實現的成長基準。

It's amazing to me that the underlying kind of -- the underlying strength of that category. We just didn't see the seasonal lift that we would normally see. So fast forward to 2026 for that category, it's going to grow well, right? I mean if we return, again, the assumption there, returning to baseline level of outages, now we're going to go to easy comps. Now, we're going to have the opportunity to grow that category, and I would also point out, we continue to grow dealer base, right? Our dealer count went up. We added over 100 in the quarter, which I think is indicative of a healthy market.

令我驚訝的是，這個類別的潛在力量——它的潛在力量。我們沒有看到往年通常會出現的季節性成長。所以，展望2026年，該類別將會發展良好，對吧？我的意思是，如果我們再次回到先前的假設，回到停電的基線水平，那麼現在我們將進行一些簡單的比較。現在，我們將有機會發展這一品類，我還想指出，我們也不斷擴大經銷商群體，對吧？我們的經銷商數量增加了。本季我們新增了 100 多隻股票，我認為這表明市場運行健康。

We continue to see lead demand, lead flow. Our customer acquisition costs continue to improve. We've been continuing to use data to refine our lead algorithms and our processes there in a way that we believe is going to impact and had -- we actually saw favorable impact to close rates in the quarter, and we think that's going to accelerate into 2026. So improved close rates next year, broader dealer counts, a return to normal baseline outages.

我們持續看到銷售線索需求和銷售線索流入。我們的客戶獲取成本持續降低。我們一直在利用數據來改進我們的潛在客戶演算法和流程，我們相信這將產生影響，而且實際上已經產生了影響——我們在本季度確實看到了對成交率的積極影響，我們認為這種情況將在 2026 年加速發展。因此，明年成交率將有所提高，經銷商數量將增加，停工情況將恢復正常。

And we also won shelf space for portable generators coming off of last season's hurricanes. So we've got expanded presence at retail. Those are all -- that's all a really good setup for the categories, those product categories next year. So I would put that in the plus column for next year. It's going to grow very nicely. We also have pricing, the effective pricing. We'll get a full year of that next year. So all of those things are good things for our residential products.

我們也為上個颶風季過後運來的便攜式發電機爭取了貨架空間。因此，我們在零售領域的業務規模已經擴大。這些——這些都為明年的產品類別做了非常好的規劃。所以我會把這一點列入明年的利多因素。它會長得很好。我們還有定價，即實際定價。明年我們將迎來整整一年的這種情況。所以，所有這些對我們的住宅產品來說都是好事。

Energy technology is a subset of that. Inside of that, obviously, Puerto Rico, the energy grant program there goes away after this year. We haven't heard that it's going to continue at least at this point. There's a chance it could, but we're not banking on that at all. And obviously, structurally, I think everybody knows that market is going to contract in 2026, the market for solar and storage. And that's on the back of the loss of -- primarily the loss of the 25D tax credit, incentive tax credit for homeowners.

能源技術是其中的一個子集。顯然，其中也包括波多黎各，那裡的能源補助計畫將在今年之後終止。至少目前我們還沒聽說這件事會繼續下去。有可能，但我們完全不指望這種情況會發生。顯然，從結構上看，我認為每個人都知道太陽能和儲能市場將在 2026 年萎縮。而這主要是由於失去了 25D 稅收抵免，即為房主提供的激勵性稅收抵免。

That said, when you look at longer term, look at your electricity rates. And George, I know you follow this. I know a lot of folks follow this. Electricity prices are up. They're up in many cases, in many areas, they're exceeding the rates of inflation and they're only going higher. We're just getting started. That is before we see this wave of AI power demand really impact pricing for electricity rates.

也就是說，從長遠來看，要關注電價。喬治，我知道你有在關注這件事。我知道很多人都在關注這個。電價上漲了。在許多情況下，在許多地區，它們的漲幅都超過了通貨膨脹率，而且還在繼續上漲。我們才剛起步。這還是在我們看到人工智慧帶來的電力需求浪潮真正影響電價之前的情況。

And as rates go up, electricity prices go up, as the cost of these technologies continues to come down for storage and solar. And I would also say that as interest rates come down. Structurally, you can say, okay, the market is going to be off. The overall market is going to contract by 20% to 25% next year. I mean, I think it's conceivable that we're not going to claw all that back, but we've got growth with ecobee. And I think we have these other elements that longer term are still a really good setup for solar and storage. We've got a lot of new products just hitting the market.

隨著利率上漲，電價也隨之上漲，因為儲能和太陽能等技術的成本持續下降。而且我還想說，隨著利率下降。從結構上看，你可以說，好吧，市場將會低迷。明年整體市場將萎縮20%至25%。我的意思是，我認為我們可能無法完全挽回損失，但我們透過 ecobee 實現了成長。我認為我們還有其他一些因素，從長遠來看，這些因素仍然能為太陽能和儲能提供非常好的配置。我們有很多新產品即將上市。

So we feel good about -- it's not going to feel good in terms of the results next year for that segment. I don't think it will be off 20% to 25%. It will be off something because of the loss of the DOE grant program. But again, I think we've -- long term, we feel good about where we're going with that product category. We feel good about the new products, feel really good about ecobee. Ecobee has been an outstanding performer for us within that part of our business. We feel good about that.

所以我們對——但就明年該領域的業績而言，感覺不會那麼好。我不認為會下降 20% 到 25%。由於失去了能源部撥款項目，它肯定會受到一些影響。但話說回來，我認為從長遠來看，我們對該產品類別的未來發展方向感到樂觀。我們對新產品感覺很好，對ecobee這個品牌也感到非常滿意。在我們業務的這一部分，Ecobee 的表現一直非常出色。我們對此感到很滿意。

And then you move to C&I. And that is just a tremendous story in terms of -- we've got great visibility now. That $300 million of backlog that we've amassed. It's doubled in the last 90 days. Most of that is 2026. As we said before, structurally, we think we can probably go to $500 million from a capacity standpoint in '26. So we still have opportunity to take that pipeline and convert more in '26 to the degree that we have customers who may need product and may need to get their hands on gen sets next year, we think we can provide them.

然後你轉入工商業領域。這真是一個了不起的故事——我們現在獲得了極高的知名度。我們積壓了價值 3 億美元的訂單。過去90天裡，這個數字翻了一番。大部分要到2026年才會發生。正如我們之前所說，從結構上看，我們認為到 2026 年，產能方面我們可能會達到 5 億美元。因此，我們仍然有機會在 2026 年繼續推動該通路的轉型，如果我們有客戶需要產品，並且明年可能需要獲得發電機組，我們認為我們可以滿足他們的需求。

And in fact, we think we can probably go north of $500 million to some degree by stretching capacity, by making some of the investments we're making right now. I think there's a little bit of upside there for '26 beyond the $500 million. But what we're focused on right now, George, is beyond 2026. We're focused on growing that business, growing our capacity in a way that, again, it's just as I mentioned before on the previous question, it's just unique, it's generational. It's -- I don't think we'll ever see this opportunity again, and we've got to go after it aggressively.

事實上，我們認為透過擴大產能，透過進行我們目前正在進行的一些投資，我們或許能夠將收入提高到 5 億美元以上。我認為2026年除了5億美元之外還有一些上漲空間。但喬治，我們現在關注的是2026年以後的事。我們專注於發展這項業務，以一種獨特的方式提升我們的能力，就像我之前在上一個問題中提到的那樣，這是獨一無二的，是代際的。我認為我們可能不會再有這樣的機會了，所以我們必須積極主動地抓住它。

Mike Halloran, Baird.

麥克哈洛蘭，貝爾德。

I think you mentioned it briefly in there, Aaron, but maybe just on the new product launches on the clean energy side, I know early days, how is that tracking? And then maybe more importantly, could you just frame up what you mean or what the latest thought process is in terms of getting back to breakeven in those product categories? And what kind of that iterative process looks like as we work through the remainder of this year, early thoughts on '26 as far as how much of that loss you can reclaim?

亞倫，我想你剛才簡要地提到了，但就清潔能源方面的新產品發布而言，我知道現在還處於早期階段，進展如何？更重要的是，您能否具體說明一下，您認為這些產品類別要達到損益平衡，您最新的想法是什麼？在今年剩餘的時間裡，這個迭代過程會是什麼樣子？對於 2026 年，我們有哪些初步想法，例如可以挽回多少損失？

So again, long term, we feel really good about that set of products for us and the market opportunity there, given the structural challenges around energy prices, and I think -- and continued need for resiliency, right, with that side of the business. We're building out an energy ecosystem. '26 is going to be tougher.

所以，從長遠來看，考慮到能源價格面臨的結構性挑戰，以及業務這方面持續的韌性需求，我們對這一系列產品以及其中的市場機會感到非常樂觀。我們正在建構一個能源生態系統。 2026年將會更加艱難。

We mentioned in our prepared remarks, we used the word recalibrate. We're using that word a lot internally here on how to make sure that as we get to the tail end of our product introduction cycle here with those products, we can ramp down some of the R&D spend associated with that. Now that will shift over into some -- there'll be some hypercare efforts. Those new products are just hitting the market now. Our first shipments of PowerCell 2 -- we're here in Q4. We're kind of on a limited launch schedule. We're looking to expand it in 2026.

我們在準備好的演講稿中提到，我們使用了「重新校準」這個詞。我們內部經常使用這個詞，來確保在我們產品上市週期接近尾聲時，我們可以逐步減少與這些產品相關的研發支出。現在這種情況會轉變成一些——會有一些特別關注的措施。這些新產品現在才剛上市。我們的 PowerCell 2 首批產品將於第四季出貨。我們的發布計劃比較有限。我們計劃在 2026 年擴大規模。

PowerMicros will start shipping here at the end of this year. So I don't have a ton of data points to offer for the market on the success or acceptance by the market of those products. I can only reiterate what we've been told over the last several years as we've been working on developing these products and that as the market feels that it needs additional suppliers. It's a bit of a duopoly right now on the inverter side.

PowerMicros將於今年底開始在這裡出貨。因此，我沒有太多數據點可以提供給市場，以說明這些產品的成功或市場接受度。我只能重申過去幾年我們在開發這些產品時所聽到的說法，那就是市場認為它需要更多的供應商。目前逆變器市場有點像是雙寡占。

And honestly, it's kind of a -- I want to say it's a monopoly on the storage side, but obviously, there's a supplier there in Tesla that has -- it provides the lion's share of the market opportunity or the market supply. So we think there's great opportunities for us to be successful. Our kind of north star there is still to be breakeven by 2027. That is our north star. It hasn't changed, even though the market is going to contract.

說實話，這有點像——我想說它在儲能方面是壟斷的，但顯然，特斯拉作為供應商，佔據了市場機會或市場供應的大部分份額。所以我們認為我們有很好的機會獲得成功。我們設定的目標仍然是在 2027 年達到收支平衡。那就是我們的北極星。即使市場即將萎縮，情況也沒有改變。

That was our north star prior to the loss of federal support, 25D for these products. But we believe, I think given, again, the high -- the continued upward movement in retail electric prices, the continued downward movement in these technologies, the cost of these technologies and the potential for a pullback in interest rates. So we think it's a good setup.

在失去聯邦政府的支持之前，這就是我們的指路明燈，25D 是這些產品的指導原則。但我們認為，鑑於零售電力價格持續上漲、這些技術持續下降、這些技術的成本以及利率可能回落等因素，情況可能會有所改善。所以我們認為這是一個很好的方案。

The paybacks on these systems will improve over time. They'll take a step back here in '26. But for us -- and again, we're going to recalibrate. And we do -- I want to say -- the last thing I want to say on this, we do need to see success in 2026. Even if it's -- we need to see at least share gains for storage and inverters or we'll have to recalibrate further. If we don't see that kind of success, it is not our intention to be in a money-losing business forever.

隨著時間的推移，這些系統的回報率將會提高。他們在 2026 年會在這裡退步。但對我們來說——而且我們還要再次調整。最後我想說的是，我們確實需要在 2026 年取得成功。即便如此——我們至少需要看到儲能和逆變器市場份額的成長，否則我們將不得不進一步調整策略。如果我們看不到那種成功，我們也不打算永遠從事虧損的行業。

We are not a start-up with unlimited capital backing from investors. We understand, and believe me, we treat this as our own money. We don't want to lose money on anything we do, but we see this as an investment in the future as an important market, as an important part of building out an energy ecosystem that we believe will provide a differentiated solution for us to be a market participant over the long haul. And we think it's an important thing for us to do. We're committed to it, but we need to see success and we need to see progress. And we're confident that, that will happen.

我們不是那種擁有投資人無限資金支持的新創公司。我們理解，而且請相信我，我們會像對待自己的錢一樣對待這筆錢。我們不想在任何事情上賠錢，但我們認為這是對未來的投資，因為這是一個重要的市場，是建立能源生態系統的重要組成部分，我們相信這將為我們長期成為市場參與者提供差異化的解決方案。我們認為這對我們來說是一件很重要的事。我們對此充滿熱情，但我們需要看到成功，我們需要看到進展。我們相信，這種情況一定會發生。

Jeff Hammond, KeyBanc Capital Markets.

Jeff Hammond，KeyBanc Capital Markets。

Just back on the data center, I think you said you think you could do $500 million or maybe better next year. So one, just as you start to get orders, are all of those kind of contemplated for '26? Or are people -- are those longer-dated orders? And then just in terms of like this new capacity you're considering, like what would that look like? Is it a plant? Is it expansion? Is it -- we got to double this thing as soon as we can?

回到資料中心的話題，我想你說過你認為明年可以達到 5 億美元甚至更高。所以，首先，當你開始接到訂單時，所有這些訂單都是為 2026 年考慮的嗎？或者說，人們——那些是期限較長的訂單嗎？那麼，就您正在考慮的這項新產能而言，它會是什麼樣子呢？它是植物嗎？這是擴張嗎？是不是──我們必須盡快把這個數量翻倍？

So just to clarify, so there's a $300 million we have in backlog. We said that the majority of that -- the vast majority of that is a 2026 shipping schedule. The $500 million or north thereof, that's capacity number. So just to be clear, we haven't subscribed that fully yet, but we have the opportunity to do that. I will say, and I think we said this on the last call, a lot of our conversations we're having today, in particular with hyperscalers, is about 2027 and beyond because they've already -- because of the long lead times for these products, many of them have already got their 2026 plans completed.

為了澄清一下，我們目前有價值 3 億美元的積壓訂單。我們說過，其中絕大部分——絕大多數——是 2026 年的出貨計畫。5億美元或以上，那就是產能數字。所以說清楚點，我們還沒有完全訂閱，但我們有機會這樣做。我想說，而且我認為我們在上次電話會議上也說過，我們今天進行的許多對話，特別是與超大規模資料中心運營商的對話，都是關於 2027 年及以後的，因為這些產品的提前期很長，他們中的許多人已經完成了 2026 年的計劃。

So anything that -- any incremental above the $300 million that we've talked about here for '26, that's going to come as opportunistic things, maybe other suppliers who have delivery challenges. And so somebody needs a Plan B, we could be a Plan B. Perhaps somebody who wants to accelerate connecting a data center more quickly.

因此，任何超出我們先前討論的 2026 年 3 億美元預算的增量，都將來自一些機會主義因素，例如其他面臨交付挑戰的供應商。所以，總是有人需要一個備選方案，而我們或許可以成為備選方案。也許有人想要更快連接資料中心。

We are having those types of conversations where they believe they'll have a facility that's ready to go sometime in the second half of 2026, but they maybe weren't planned to be online until early '27, but they want to move that up. And if we can supply generators, that's obviously an important consideration for bringing any of these facilities online in terms of just having the uptime requirements, that could be an opportunity.

我們正在進行這類對話，他們認為他們的設施將在 2026 年下半年準備就緒，但可能原計劃要到 2027 年初才能上線，但他們希望提前上線。如果我們能夠提供發電機，這對於滿足這些設施的正常運行時間要求而言，顯然是一個重要的考慮因素，這可能是一個機會。

So we're going to continue to look to how do we improve our capacity numbers even for '26 above the $500 million we have now. But the substantial change, kind of maybe the second half of your question, the substantial change in capacity, what we're looking at there is how do we increase our capacity. Basically, how do we basically double it again? How do we increase that 50% to 100% more than where we're at today? How do we double that for 2027 and beyond, at least '27 certainly, '27, '28? And that's going to come through -- you kind of touched on it.

因此，我們將繼續研究如何提高產能，甚至在 2026 年超過我們目前的 5 億美元。但實質的變化，或許可以算是你問題的後半部分，也就是產能的實質變化，我們正在考慮的是如何提高產能。基本上，我們該如何再翻倍？我們如何在現有基礎上再提高 50% 到 100%？我們如何在 2027 年及以後，至少在 2027 年、2028 年，將這個數字翻倍？這一點肯定會體現出來——你剛才也稍微提到了。

We're going to need hard assets like facilities, right? These are big units. They take up a lot of room. So we're going to need facilities, we're going to need space. We have line of sight on a number of facilities that we are in negotiation on here in Wisconsin and in other parts of the US. We haven't signed anything yet, but we are in far along in negotiation and diligence around some of those physical areas where we can expand.

我們需要像設施這樣的硬資產，對吧？這些都是大型設備。它們佔用很多空間。所以我們需要設施，​​我們需要空間。我們已經對威斯康辛州和美國其他地區的一些設施進行了洽談，目前我們掌握了相關資訊。我們還沒有簽署任何協議，但我們已經就一些可以擴張的實體領域進行了深入的談判和盡職調查。

Beyond that, we've got equipment ordered with some of the longer lead time elements that we know from the testing equipment to some of the material handling equipment for products of this size. Those lead times are also extended, as you would imagine. And we put those bets down here recently. And so we feel like we'll be able to bring that online in time to satisfy late '26, early '27 type of production time lines. We also, as

除此之外，我們還訂購了一些設備，其中一些設備的交貨週期較長，例如測試設備以及用於此類尺寸產品的物料搬運設備。正如你所料，這些交貨週期也延長了。我們最近在這裡下了注。因此，我們覺得我們能夠及時將其上線，以滿足 2026 年末、2027 年初的生產時間表。我們也，作為

I mentioned in the prepared remarks, we continue to look at our M&A opportunities. Are there other ways that we could accelerate even more quickly, more rapidly, not only in terms of raw capacity, production for these products, but also certain elements where we can -- are there other value streams we can capture in the unit? We don't make the engine. So structurally, we're in a bit of a disadvantage to some of our competitors who actually make the engine, not all of them do, but some of them do.

我在事先準備好的演講稿中提到過，我們將繼續關注併購機會。我們是否有其他方法可以更快地加速發展，不僅在產能和產品生產方面，而且在某些方面——例如，我們是否可以在該部門獲取其他價值流？我們不生產引擎。所以從結構上看，我們比一些競爭對手處於劣勢，因為他們實際上生產發動機，雖然不是所有競爭對手都生產發動機，但有些競爭對手確實生產。

So where else can we look to add value in these products? And is that an opportunity? Are there other critical components where we've heard of shortages? And can we look to acquisitions to put us in the market to be a more fulsome supplier, not only of the back of equipment, but maybe other elements around the backup systems that go into these facilities? So we're looking at all those things.

那麼，我們還可以從哪些方面著手為這些產品增加價值呢？那算是機會嗎？我們是否也聽說過其他關鍵零件出現短缺的情況？我們能否透過收購進入市場，成為更全面的供應商，不僅提供設備後端，還可以提供與這些設施備用系統相關的其他要素？所以我們正在考慮所有這些因素。

We've had a very -- as you know, Jeff, you've followed the company a long time. We've got a very active M&A group here, team here. Nothing's changed there. We've done a lot of M&A over the last 15 years. We're very comfortable doing that. We've got an excellent team here that is working on a number of things that could provide us additional capacity and/or capabilities more quickly as we get into 2026. So all those things are on the table.

我們一直——正如你所知，傑夫，你關注這家公司很久了。我們這裡有一個非常活躍的併購團隊。那裡什麼都沒變。過去15年裡，我們做了很多併購交易。我們很樂意這樣做。我們這裡有一支優秀的團隊，他們正在研究一些能夠幫助我們更快地獲得額外產能和/或能力的項目，以便我們能夠更好地迎接 2026 年的到來。所以所有這些事情都在考慮範圍內。

I think the point that I want to make, I think, for you and for others is, we have a fantastic position financially, a great -- a really strong balance sheet. We produce a ton of cash flow. We're going to put that to work. We're going to put that to work in our C&I business in a way we have not put it to work before. We're going to put to work going after this opportunity because, again, we feel this is just a unique thing. And so we're going to be aggressive there. We're going to lean in and that's going to have a -- we believe a material impact to potentially double this business in the next three to five years, that C&I business.

我想向你和其他人強調的一點是，我們在財務上處於非常有利的地位，擁有非常強勁的資產負債表。我們創造了大量的現金流。我們將把這一點付諸實踐。我們將把這項技術運用到我們的工商業業務中，以一種我們以前從未嘗試過的方式運用它。我們將全力以赴爭取這個機會，因為我們再次強調，這確實是一個千載難逢的機會。所以我們會在那裡採取積極主動的策略。我們將加大投入，我們相信這將產生實質的影響，並有可能在未來三到五年內將這項工商業業務翻倍。

Brian Drab, William Blair.

布萊恩·德拉布，威廉·布萊爾。

This is sort of an easy segue to my question. You're talking about the capacity expansion and the idea that you don't manufacture the engine. I'm just wondering, Aaron, like what are the biggest challenges? What are your biggest concerns about adding this much capacity that quickly in terms of supply chain or just anything in terms of the manufacturing operation that's going to be challenging? I think people are looking for just that confidence that this capacity can come online smoothly.

這自然而然地引出了我的問題。你談到了產能擴張，以及你不自己生產引擎的想法。亞倫，我只是好奇，你覺得最大的挑戰是什麼？在供應鏈方面，或在生產營運方面，您認為如此迅速地增加如此大的產能，最大的擔憂是什麼？有哪些挑戰需要克服？我認為人們正在尋求的正是這種信心，即這項能力能夠順利上線。

It's great question. I would just point to -- we brought it online -- brought the product line online in our Oshkosh, Wisconsin facility very quickly. We finished our development earlier this year, produced our first lines. We made -- by the way, within our CapEx numbers this year, a bunch of upgrades to that facility to allow for the start-up of manufacturing in these products.

這是一個很好的問題。我只想指出——我們很快就在位於威斯康辛州奧什科甚的工廠將產品線上線了。我們今年稍早完成了研發工作，並生產了第一批產品。順便一提，我們今年在資本支出預算內，對該工廠進行了一系列升級改造，以便開始生產這些產品。

It was part of getting to the $500 million or slightly north of capacity that's available for us in 2026. That's in our run rate -- our CapEx run rate this year. We've been working around the clock, and that's in terms of the test cell upgrades, the material handling upgrades, the physical upgrades. I mean we're moving walls, we're moving cranes. We're expanding. We're doing things there that are readying us for production.

這是為了達到我們到 2026 年可獲得的 5 億美元或略高於此目標的預算。這已計入我們的運行率——我們今年的資本支出運行率。我們一直在日以繼夜地工作，包括測試單元升級、物料搬運升級和實體升級。我的意思是，我們在搬牆，我們在搬起重機。我們正在擴張。我們正在那裡做一些準備工作，為生產做好準備。

And as I said, we rolled some of the first units down the line a couple of weeks ago, got those out on trucks and shipping about 10 days ago, and we're building here in the fourth quarter. So I feel very comfortable that like the production side of this, we can do that. That's within our wheelhouse. The supply chain side, our engine partner there has a ton of capacity. And I don't feel like that's going to be a constraint for us, which I think is -- if you look at the market, the broad market today and the structural imbalance that we've talked about on this call and on the previous call is largely around the engine supply.

正如我所說，幾週前我們已經生產了一些第一批產品，大約 10 天前就裝上卡車發貨了，我們正在第四季度進行生產。所以我很有信心，在製作方面，我們能夠做到這一點。這正符合我們的能力範圍。供應鏈方面，我們在那裡的引擎合作夥伴擁有大量的產能。我不認為這會成為我們的限制，我認為——如果你看看市場，看看今天的大盤，以及我們在這次電話會議和上次電話會議中討論的結構性失衡，這主要都與發動機供應有關。

And so coming into the market with an engine supply partnership like we have with Baudouin, we just -- who has a -- they've made a massive investment that they brought online in these, what they refer to as large bore diesel engines. We feel like we're in a really good position there to be able to supply the market with these types of products. Engines will not be a constraint.

因此，我們與 Baudouin 建立了引擎供應合作夥伴關係，進入市場，他們對這些他們所謂的大缸徑柴油引擎進行了巨額投資。我們感覺我們在這方面處於非常有利的地位，能夠向市場供應這類產品。引擎不會成為瓶頸。

Then you move to the next large component, which is alternators. We're working with multiple alternator suppliers. They are all suppliers we know because we buy from them today for our C&I market. So it's not a new supply base. This is a very similar supply base to what we see in C&I, where we have great long-term relationships.

接下來，你要看下一個大零件，也就是交流發電機。我們正在與多家交流發電機供應商合作。這些都是我們熟知的供應商，因為我們目前從他們那裡採購用於工商業市場的產品和服務。所以這不是一個新的供應基地。這與我們在工商業領域看到的供應基礎非常相似，我們與工商業領域建立了良好的長期合作關係。

So we're able to leverage those relationships to work with them to grow that business and to leverage, again, our expertise and our -- again, we're known commodities. They're not selling to somebody on some fly-by-night operation or some potential customer here, they don't know. We are not a credit risk. We're not a risk operationally. We're a known commodity. So I think those are all pluses.

因此，我們可以利用這些關係與他們合作，發展業務，並再次利用我們的專業知識和——再說一遍，我們是眾所周知的資源。他們不是在向某個不知名的不法分子或潛在客戶出售產品，他們對此一無所知。我們不構成信用風險。我們在營運上不存在風險。我們是眾所周知的。所以我覺得這些都是優點。

I think where the physical constraints are going to happen or the constraints are going to happen is physically, right? Just the amount of product that we can build because these things take up space. And then downstream, some of the packaging constraints that could happen. You've got a lot of the industry -- we build the unit up to a certain level and then the product is shipped to -- in our industry, what's known as a packager. The packager then provides the outer housing, the enclosure to the end customer spec and those are unique specifications. So they're really a lot of times, they're engineered to order. And so they're highly configured, and they're built to unique specifications for customers.

我認為物理限制會出現在哪裡，或者說限制會出現在哪裡，對吧？我們能生產的產品數量有限，因為這些東西很佔地方。然後，下游環節可能會出現一些包裝上的限制。在這個產業裡，我們把設備組裝到一定程度，然後把產品運送到──在我們這個產業裡，就是所謂的包裝商。然後，包裝商根據最終客戶的規格提供外殼和包裝盒，這些都是獨特的規格。所以很多時候，它們都是根據訂單設計的。因此，它們的配置非常複雜，並且是根據客戶的獨特規格量身定制的。

We believe there's opportunities there for us to participate and work with some of the packagers. We've lined up a couple of partnerships there to make sure that we've got at least adequate capacity for the orders we have in-house today. But how do we grow beyond that? We don't want that to be a constraint our growth as we're going forward. So we're looking at ways to partner more deeply with those packages so that we can ensure that, that's not a constraint on our growth for this market opportunity.

我們相信，在那裡我們有機會參與並與一些包裝商合作。我們已經在那裡建立了一些合作夥伴關係，以確保我們至少有足夠的產能來滿足我們目前內部的訂單需求。但我們該如何超越這一點呢？我們不希望這成為我們未來發展的限制因素。因此，我們正在研究如何與這些公司建立更深入的合作關係，以確保這不會限制我們在這個市場機會中的成長。

So there's a lot of things that I just said there, and there's a lot of things that we need to do execution-wise. But again, when I look at what this is, it's just not that far afield from what we do today and, again, or what we've been doing for the last 50 years in the C&I industry. And so I just feel like we're -- if there's a place where something is in our wheelhouse and where we can we have the opportunity to really have an impact, it's in this -- not only the data center end of it, but as I said, the traditional market for large backup power is also a great opportunity for us.

所以，我剛剛說了很多事情，而從執行層面來說，我們也有很多事情要做。但話說回來，當我仔細審視這件事時，它與我們今天所做的事情，或者說我們在過去 50 年裡在工商業領域所做的事情，並沒有太大的區別。所以我覺得，如果有什麼領域是我們擅長的，並且我們有機會真正產生影響，那就是這個領域——不僅是資料中心領域，而且正如我所說，傳統的大型備用電源市場對我們來說也是一個很好的機會。

We've got a lot of order activity, a lot of pipeline activity there that we're working through as we bring the first products to market on an order basis for that end of the market as well. So a lot of great things ahead for that part of our business.

我們有很多訂單活動，也有很多在製品活動，我們正在努力處理這些活動，以便將首批產品按訂單推向市場，滿足該市場末端的需求。所以，我們業務的這一部分未來會有很多美好的發展前景。

Mark Strouse, JPMorgan.

馬克‧斯特勞斯，摩根大通。

Aaron, you mentioned earlier trying to get on the approved vendor list for some of the hyperscalers. Can you just give a bit more color on what that process really looks like? And is the time line for that kind of more measured in months or quarters? Or anything that you can share there would be great.

Aaron，你之前提到想爭取進入一些超大規模資料中心營運商的認可供應商名單。能再詳細描述一下這個過程究竟是什麼樣的嗎？而這類專案的進度是以月還是季來計算的？或者你願意在那裡分享任何內容，那就太好了。

Yeah, it's different for each hyperscaler. We are just -- I might just point out, I mean, we are the preferred supplier for two global co-locators already. So in terms of like what it means to be on the ABL, when we're talking about that, we're really referring to the ABL from hyperscalers. We're making really good progress with the co-locators, and we are already listed as a preferred supplier for two of them globally. So I feel really good about where we're at there.

是的，每個超大規模資料中心的情況都不一樣。我只想指出一點，我們已經是兩家全球託管資料中心的首選供應商了。所以，說到加入 ABL 意味著什麼，當我們談論它時，我們實際上指的是來自超大規模資料中心的 ABL。我們在與資料中心託管商的合作中取得了非常好的進展，我們已經被其中兩家全球資料中心託管商列為首選供應商。所以我對我們目前的情況感到非常滿意。

Back to the hyperscalers, I mean, if this is a baseball game, we're not playing baseball here in Milwaukee anymore, unfortunately. God here swept this, but for those that are fans of the game, 9-inning game, not an 18-inning game like the other night, but a 9-inning game, I would categorize our progress there.

回到超大規模資料中心的話題，我的意思是，如果這是一場棒球比賽，很遺憾，我們現在在密爾瓦基已經不能再打棒球了。上帝保佑我們贏得了這場比賽，但對於那些熱愛棒球的人來說，這是一場9局的比賽，而不是像前幾天晚上那樣打了18局的比賽，而是一場9局的比賽，我會把我們的進步歸類為9局比賽。

First of all, it is measured in months. I think, again, the hyperscalers that we're working with are pushing us to get through their gauntlet and it is a gauntlet. It's just a process. A lot of it is -- there's contracts, right? So you've got a lot of back and forth from a legal perspective. You have certificates of insurance. You have entity discussions, right? Like what's their org structure, energy structure. There are high-level management meetings. They want to be face-to-face, right? Every one of them has a little bit of different approach and there are different boxes to check for each one. We do not see any showstoppers in those processes. They just decide to get through.

首先，它是以月為單位計算的。我認為，我們合作的超大規模資料中心營運商再次推動我們通過他們的重重考驗，而這確實是一場嚴峻的考驗。這只是這個過程。很多時候都是這樣——畢竟有合約在身，對吧？所以從法律角度來看，雙方有很多來回溝通。您持有保險證明。你們之間有實體方面的討論，對吧？例如他們的組織結構、能量結構是什麼樣的？會召開高階管理會議。他們想當面談，對吧？他們每個人的方法都略有不同，每個人需要檢查的方面也不同。我們認為這些過程中不存在任何阻礙因素。他們決定硬闖過去。

I would say this is a baseball game, back to their reference. We're probably something in the sixth or seventh inning with most of those hyperscalers, maybe a little bit different one to the other from -- each one is a little bit different, as I said before, but good progress. We hope to have better updates as we go forward here.

我覺得這就像一場棒球比賽，回到他們提到的例子。我們可能正處於大多數超大規模資料中心發展的第六或第七階段，每個資料中心之間可能略有不同——正如我之前所說，每個資料中心都略有不同，但整體進展良好。我們希望未來能在這裡提供更好的更新資訊。

I think the greatest evidence there will be the continued growth in that backlog and actually having a hyperscaler come in and with their trust, give us an opportunity to supply them with product, whether it'd be in '26 or what is more likely, as I said before, it's 2027 and beyond.

我認為最大的證據將是積壓訂單的持續增長，以及超大規模資料中心營運商的加入，憑藉他們的信任，給我們提供產品供應的機會，無論是在 2026 年，還是更有可能的是，正如我之前所說，在 2027 年及以後。

Christine Cho, Barclays.

Christine Cho，巴克萊銀行。

Just as a follow-up to Mark's question. I understand that your engines are actually coming from France, but are you finding that the Chinese ownership of the supplier is something that is brought up in your conversations with the bigger type of customers? And would you say that you need at least one hyperscaler contract in hand in order to feel comfortable in doubling the capacity?

作為馬克問題的補充。我知道你們的引擎實際上是從法國進口的，但是你們在與大型客戶交談時，是否發現供應商的中國所有權是一個被提及的話題？那麼，您是否認為至少需要一份超大規模資料中心運營商的合同，才能放心地將容量翻倍？

Yeah. Great questions, Christine. So on the supply chain side, with our engine supplier, we've talked through with our customer base where we're getting our engines from. Obviously, I think if you look at the supply of any of these engines, by the way, from the competitive set, there are components that today are only available in some parts of the world like China.

是的。克里斯汀，問得好。因此，在供應鏈方面，我們已經與引擎供應商以及我們的客戶群討論過我們從哪裡採購引擎。顯然，我認為，如果你看看這些引擎的供應情況，順便說一句，從競爭產品來看，有些零件目前只有在世界某些地區（如中國）才能獲得。

And so our reliance on the supply chain there, that's global in nature, but specific to certain areas of the world, like China in certain countries is not unique. The ownership structure there, I mean, it's something we've talked about. But again, where those engines are manufactured that -- our partner there has a global base of manufacturing that they are expanding by the way. It's not just going to be France. They've got facilities in India. They've got facilities that they're looking at in other parts of the world.

因此，我們對那裡的供應鏈的依賴，雖然本質上是全球性的，但具體到世界某些地區，例如中國某些國家，並不是獨一無二的。那裡的所有權結構，我的意思是，我們已經討論過這個問題了。但話說回來，這些引擎是在哪裡生產的——我們的合作夥伴在那裡擁有全球製造基地，而且他們還在不斷擴大生產規模。不僅僅是法國。他們在印度設有工廠。他們正在考察世界其他地區的一些設施。

So we believe that over time, it's something that will -- if it's a concern today, I think that's something that we're going to be able to mitigate. There are also potential structures -- ownership structures in the future that could look different, right, be the JVs or some other structure there, nothing is off the table. We don't want that to be a negative on our entry into this market. We don't think it is. And nobody has indicated that it's a showstopper at this point, but something that we want to continue to stay ahead of.

所以我們相信，隨著時間的推移，如果今天這是一個令人擔憂的問題，我認為我們將能夠緩解這個問題。未來也可能出現不同的所有權結構，例如合資企業或其他結構，一切皆有可能。我們不希望這成為我們進入這個市場的不利因素。我們認為並非如此。目前還沒有人表示這會成為阻礙，但我們希望繼續保持領先地位。

I think as far as to answer your question about the doubling of capacity or potential doubling of capacity, yes, I would certainly feel better if we had a hyperscale commitment there, that would make me feel better about the long-term usage of that. But I would just say this, the way we're structuring the expansion of capacity there, I want to be clear that we feel it's something that if we needed to be repurposed for something else, we'll use it for that.

至於你提出的產能翻倍或潛在翻倍的問題，我認為，如果我們能在那裡做出超大規模的承諾，我當然會感覺更好，這讓我對那裡的長期使用更有信心。但我只想說一點，就我們目前構建的產能擴張方案而言，我想明確指出，我們認為如果需要將其重新用於其他用途，我們也會這樣做。

It could be the next leg of growth in another part of our business, could be -- we lease quite a bit of outside storage space today that could come in-house if we needed to, convert some facilities. It's not ideal. But I think the added capacity that we're leaning into, we feel -- we're not getting to a point where, I would say, let's say, that hyperscale business doesn't come to us for whatever reason.

這可能是我們業務另一部分成長的下一個階段，也可能是——我們目前租賃了相當多的外部儲存空間，如果需要的話，我們可以將其轉入內部，改造一些設施。這並非理想情況。但我認為，我們正在利用的額外產能，我們感覺——我們還沒有達到那種程度，比如說，超大規模業務不會因為任何原因而停止與我們合作。

And I don't think that will be the case. I think quite honestly, it will be the other way around. But I do think we'd be able to deploy that capacity to our benefit. It would take longer to use up, of course. And I feel more confident, to your point, if we had that commitment. But I do think that's something that we'll be able to talk about here in the months ahead.

我不認為情況會是這樣。說實話，我認為情況恰恰相反。但我認為我們可以利用這種能力為自己謀利。當然，用完它需要更長時間。正如你所說，如果我們能做出這樣的承諾，我會更有信心。但我認為這是我們未來幾個月可以在這裡討論的話題。

There will be growth in the traditional markets.

傳統市場將會成長。

For sure, growth in our traditional markets that we'll need for that as well.

當然，我們也需要傳統市場的成長來實現這一目標。

Keith Housum, Northcoast Research.

Keith Housum，北海岸研究公司。

I appreciate it. Staying along the lines of the data centers, Aaron, perhaps you can touch on the pricing for these data center generators and like the margin profile and kind of thinking of how that might affect the margins going forward?

謝謝。亞倫，繼續談到資料中心，或許你可以談談這些資料中心發電機的定價，以及利潤率情況，並思考一下這可能會如何影響未來的利潤率？

It's a great question. Pricing ASP on each unit, you're talking about a 3.25 megawatt unit or larger. And by the way, I mean, I would just note, I mean, today, our product line -- we've rolled out the first part of the product line up to 3.25 megawatts. The next part of the product line from 3.5 to 4 megawatts will roll out in 2026. But the ASPs on these products range from -- depends on the content, depends on the customer, but it can be anywhere from $1.5 million to $2 million per gen set. So pricing is -- and we're competitive on pricing across the market.

這是一個很好的問題。以每台設備的平均售價計算，您指的是 3.25 兆瓦或更大的設備。順便提一下，我的意思是，今天，我們的產品線——我們已經推出了產品線的第一部分，功率高達 3.25 兆瓦。下一部分產品線功率範圍為 3.5 至 4 兆瓦，將於 2026 年推出。但這些產品的平均售價範圍很廣——取決於產品內容，也取決於客戶，但每台發電機組的平均售價可能在 150 萬美元到 200 萬美元之間。所以定價方面——我們在市場上有價格競爭力。

I would say the margin profile domestically, margin profile is very similar to our C&I product set here in North America, maybe a little bit below that, but not dramatically so. Internationally, it's a little bit below that. The international markets are always -- when you look at our C&I products, gross margins are not quite as strong internationally and that's kind of a legacy -- that's just structural in terms of the international markets being, I would say, more competitive overall and us being a smaller player internationally.

我認為國內的利潤率情況與我們在北美的工商業產品組合非常相似，可能略低一些，但差距並不大。國際上，這個數字略低於此。國際市場總是如此——當你觀察我們的工商業產品時，你會發現國際市場的毛利率並不像國內市場那麼高，這算是一種歷史遺留問題——這只是結構性問題，因為國際市場整體競爭更加激烈，而我們在國際市場上規模較小。

So I think that's what kind of leads to that. We're working -- we've made a lot of progress on that, by the way, in our ownership with Pramac over the last decade. They've improved their gross margins dramatically, which has been great, and we're going to continue to work on that. But gross margins for those products, I would just say this, I mean, the incremental impact to EBITDA margins is fantastic for the data center market in terms of the -- that overall impact on our C&I product margins. And if you just looked at the incremental impact on EBITDA margins, it will be positive.

所以我認為這就是導致這種情況的原因。我們正在努力——順便說一句，在過去十年裡，我們與 Pramac 合作，在這方面取得了巨大進展。他們的毛利率大幅提高，這非常好，我們將繼續努力提高毛利率。但就這些產品的毛利率而言，我只想說，就資料中心市場而言，EBITDA 利潤率的增量影響是巨大的——這對我們 C&I 產品利潤率的整體影響是巨大的。如果只看對 EBITDA 利潤率的增量影響，那將是正面的。

Sean Milligan, Needham & Company.

Sean Milligan，Needham & Company。

I was just curious about the margin progression. I know you don't want to really give guidance for next year. But in terms of the framework, the back half EBITDA margins are kind of weaker than what were expected. So just gives and takes into next year, like does core resi HSB get better? Energy tech, you have some revenue headwinds and then the data center piece. Just trying to kind of think about what that all means for margins moving forward on the EBITDA side.

我只是對利潤率的變化感到好奇。我知道你不想對明年的情況給予具體的指導。但就整體框架而言，下半年的 EBITDA 利潤率低於預期。所以明年就看有哪些利弊了，例如核心住宅HSB會不會有所改善？能源科技領域，你們面臨一些收入上的阻力，還有資料中心的問題。我只是想思考一下，這一切對未來 EBITDA 方面的利潤率意味著什麼。

Yeah, Sean, it's York. So yeah, I think if you looked at our updated guidance for '25, we're talking more like 17 -- approximately 17% EBITDA margins versus the, call it, 18% to 19% that we were previously guiding. So at the midpoint of the last guide, call it, 1.5% reduction. So maybe, obviously, the unfavorable mix with selling less -- bringing our home standby guidance down, given the outage environment, that's our highest margin product. So I'd say about a third of that 1.5% decline is mix, which to Aaron's point, if you think about 2026 and you revert back to the mean with regards to outages, that mix, we should see a nice pop in home standby that should -- should it help claw back some of that mix decline.

是的，肖恩，是約克。所以，如果你看一下我們更新後的 2025 年業績指引，我們說的更像是 17% 左右的 EBITDA 利潤率，而不是我們之前指引的 18% 到 19%。因此，在上一版指南的中點，我們姑且稱之為減少 1.5%。所以，很顯然，銷量下降導致不利的組合——鑑於停電環境，我們不得不下調家用備用電源的指導方針，而家用備用電源是我們利潤最高的產品。所以我認為，這 1.5% 的下降中大約有三分之一是混合供電造成的，正如 Aaron 所說，如果你考慮 2026 年，並且停電情況恢復到平均水平，那麼混合供電應該會大幅增長，這應該有助於挽回一些混合供電的下降。

So I think on the mix side, there will be some recovery in '26. Obviously, the OpEx deleverage on the lower guide is probably the remainder of the 1.5% EBITDA guide. So obviously, as we are talking about a framework for '26 and growing home standby and portables and C&I, we're going to be able to leverage our OpEx structure. So we'll be able to improve our EBITDA margins from the 17% we're talking about in '25.

所以我認為，在混合市場方面，2026年會有一些復甦。顯然，較低的指導方針下的營運支出去槓桿化可能是 1.5% EBITDA 指導方針的剩餘部分。顯然，當我們討論 2026 年的框架以及不斷增長的家用備用電源、便攜式電源和工商業電源時，我們將能夠利用我們的營運支出結構。因此，我們預計將 2025 年的 EBITDA 利潤率從 17% 提高到更高水準。

There's probably some small price cost impact in that 1.5% decline for '25 that I would say is transitory in nature, which shouldn't repeat in '26. So that's a long-winded way of saying we should see some nice recovery in EBITDA margins off the 17% that we're talking in '25, some due to mix, some due to operating leverage, some due to some of these transitory costs coming through, new product introduction costs, plant ramp-up costs, etc, pricing. So should see a recovery in those EBITDA margins for '26.

2025 年 1.5% 的跌幅可能會對價格成本產生一些小的影響，我認為這只是暫時的，2026 年應該不會重演。所以，說了這麼多，其實就是想說，我們應該會看到 EBITDA 利潤率從 2025 年的 17% 有所回升，部分原因是產品組合的變化，部分原因是經營槓桿效應的提高，部分原因是一些過渡性成本的出現，例如新產品上市成本、工廠投產成本等等，以及定價因素。因此，2026 年 EBITDA 利潤率應該會有所回升。

I would now like to turn the conference back to Kris Rosemann for closing remarks. Sir?

現在我謹將會議交還給克里斯·羅斯曼，請他作閉幕致詞。先生？

We want to thank everyone for joining us this morning. We look forward to discussing our fourth quarter and full year 2025 earnings results with you in mid-February 2026. Thank you again, and goodbye.

感謝各位今天早上的到來。我們期待在 2026 年 2 月中旬與您討論 2025 年第四季和全年的獲利情況。再次感謝，再見。

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線了。