Gevo Inc (GEVO) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Gevo Incorporated first-quarter 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded.

您好，感謝您的支持。歡迎參加 Gevo Incorporated 2025 年第一季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）請注意，今天的會議正在錄音。

I would like to turn the conference over to your speaker for today, Eric Frey, Vice President of Finance and Strategy. Eric, you may begin.

我想將今天的會議交給財務和策略副總裁 Eric Frey。艾瑞克，你可以開始了。

Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us on today's call to discuss Gevo's first-quarter 2025 results. I'm Eric Frey, Vice President of Finance and Strategy at Gevo. With me today we have Patrick Gruber, our Chief Executive Officer; Lynn Smull, our Chief Financial Officer; Chris Ryan, our President and Chief Operating Officer; and Paul Bloom, our Chief Business Officer.

大家下午好，感謝您參加今天的電話會議討論 Gevo 2025 年第一季的業績。我是 Gevo 財務與策略副總裁 Eric Frey。今天與我一起出席的有我們的首席執行官帕特里克·格魯伯 (Patrick Gruber)、我們的首席財務官林恩·斯穆爾 (Lynn Smull)、我們的總裁兼首席營運官克里斯·瑞安 (Chris Ryan) 和我們的首席商務官保羅·布魯姆 (Paul Bloom)。

Earlier today, we issued a press release that outlines our first-quarter 2025 results and the topics we plan to discuss. A copy of the press release is available on our website at www.gevo.com.

今天早些時候，我們發布了一份新聞稿，概述了我們 2025 年第一季的業績以及我們計劃討論的主題。新聞稿副本可在我們的網站 www.gevo.com 上查閱。

Please be advised that our remarks today, including answers to your questions, contain forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act. These forward-looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainty that could cause actual results to be materially different from those currently anticipated. Those statements include projections about the timing, development, engineering, financing, and construction of our alcohol-to-jet projects; our recently executed agreements; potential contracts for carbon credits, our Gevo North Dakota and RNG projects; and other activities described in our filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, which are incorporated by reference. We disclaim any obligation to update these forward-looking statements.

請注意，我們今天的評論（包括對您的問題的回答）包含《私人證券訴訟改革法案》所定義的前瞻性陳述。這些前瞻性陳述受風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果與目前預期的結果有重大差異。這些聲明包括有關我們的酒精轉噴射機項目的時機、開發、工程、融資和建設的預測；我們最近執行的協議；碳信用的潛在合約、我們的 Gevo North Dakota 和 RNG 項目；以及我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中描述的其他活動，這些文件透過引用納入本文。我們不承擔更新這些前瞻性聲明的任何義務。

In addition, we may provide certain non-GAAP financial information on this call. The relevant definitions and GAAP reconciliations may be found in our earnings release, which can be found on our website at www.gevo.com in the Investor Relations section.

此外，我們可能會在本次電話會議上提供某些非公認會計準則財務資訊。相關定義和 GAAP 對帳可以在我們的收益報告中找到，該報告可在我們網站 www.gevo.com 的投資者關係部分找到。

Following the prepared remarks, we'll open the call for questions. I'd like to remind everyone that this conference call is open to the media, and we're providing a simultaneous webcast to the public. A replay of this call and other past events will be available via the company's Investor Relations page at www.gevo.com.

準備好發言後，我們將開始提問。我想提醒大家，本次電話會議向媒體開放，我們將向公眾提供同步網路直播。本次電話會議及其他過去活動的重播可透過公司投資者關係頁面 www.gevo.com 取得。

I'd now like to return the call over to the CEO of Gevo, Patrick Gruber. Pat?

現在我想把電話轉給 Gevo 的執行長 Patrick Gruber。拍？

Thanks, Eric. What a change since the last quarter of 2024.

謝謝，埃里克。自 2024 年最後一個季度以來發生了巨大的變化。

In this first quarter of 2025, we generated $29 million of revenue. Now, this is only with two months of operations under our belt at Gevo North Dakota. The ethanol and carbon sequestration are working well, contributing value as we expected.

2025 年第一季度，我們的營收為 2,900 萬美元。現在，我們在北達科他州 Gevo 的營運才剛開始兩個月。乙醇和碳封存運作良好，貢獻了我們預期的價值。

Our RNG revenue and profitability has also improved. We believe our growth strategy reflected in our acquisition of the plant in North Dakota is going to pay off and help drive us to be an EBITDA positive this year. This plant not only produces ethanol profitably in a tough market, it also has one of the three operating carbon sequestration operations in the country.

我們的 RNG 收入和盈利能力也有所提高。我們相信，我們收購北達科他州工廠所體現的成長策略將會帶來回報，並有助於推動我們今年實現 EBITDA 正成長。該工廠不僅在艱難的市場環境下生產乙醇並獲利，而且是該國三家營運的碳封存工廠之一。

We have received approval from the IRS to apply for the 45Z tax credit. So once we monetize that tax credit, it should further help our EBITDA growth. I know this is contrary to the noise in the market, but in fact, we believe these 45Z credits are monetizable now.

我們已獲得美國國稅局的批准，可以申請 45Z 稅收抵免。因此，一旦我們將稅收抵免貨幣化，它應該會進一步幫助我們的 EBITDA 成長。我知道這與市場的聲音相反，但事實上，我們相信這 45Z 積分現在是可以貨幣化的。

We expect that we will be able to see the benefits in our P&L starting in the next quarter. By the way, it's worth noting that we are only aware of two ethanol plants in the country that will benefit from 45Z as it currently stands, and we own one of them, that's Gevo North Dakota.

我們預計從下個季度開始我們就能在損益表中看到收益。順便說一句，值得注意的是，我們只知道目前全國有兩家乙醇工廠將受益於 45Z，其中一家是我們擁有的，那就是 Gevo North Dakota。

We don't need clarification around agricultural benefits. Our carbon intensity score is already low at about 20. The more we learn about the Gevo North Dakota site, the more we like it. It has an ethanol plant with 67 million gallons per year of capacity, and the site has room to expand ethanol further, expand the corn supply and add additional plants like alcohol-to-jet.

我們不需要澄清有關農業利益的問題。我們的碳強度得分已經很低了，大約是20。我們對 Gevo North Dakota 遺址了解得越多，就越喜歡它。該工廠擁有一座年產能 6,700 萬加侖的乙醇工廠，而該工廠還有進一步擴大乙醇產量、增加玉米供應和增建酒精轉噴射燃料工廠等其他工廠的空間。

We have good railroads, good roads. The sequestration operation has had a few years of operation without issue. The carbon sequestration well is probably one of the best, if not the best, in the whole country, given its geological structure and size. It's certified as a thousand-year well. We own it.

我們有良好的鐵路、良好的道路。封存作業已經運作了幾年，沒有出現任何問題。考慮到其地質結構和規模，這個碳封存井可能是全國最好的碳封存井之一，甚至可能是最好的。它被認證為千年井。我們擁有它。

Being vertical is an advantage. We've run into a pleasant surprise too. North Dakota, its governor, legislators, and leaders in agriculture, gas and oil and energy, more broadly, have all been very welcoming. They're interested in growth in North Dakota. Well, so are we.

垂直是一種優勢。我們也遇到了一個驚喜。北達科他州州長、立法者以及農業、天然氣、石油和能源領域的領導人都對此表示熱烈歡迎。他們對北達科他州的發展很感興趣。嗯，我們也是。

We believe the North Dakota site is ideal for an alcohol-to-jet plant. We have a great corn supply, land sequestration, and already well-run, well-built ethanol plant that's working great. In fact, we think we can get that NATJ plant built faster up there in North Dakota then in South Dakota, leveraging design and engineering, we've already done for our ATJ-60 plant.

我們相信北達科他州是建立酒精噴射工廠的理想地點。我們擁有充足的玉米供應、土地利用以及運作良好、建造精良、效益顯著的乙醇工廠。事實上，我們認為我們可以利用我們已經為 ATJ-60 工廠完成的設計和工程，在北達科他州比在南達科他州更快地建造 NATJ 工廠。

We believe we can keep the capital cost down too, making the ATJ project achieved in North Dakota even more attractive. Part of this can be done by starting with a smaller plant in the first place, in this case, 3 million gallons per year of ATJ, maximizing the modularization, which reduces risk at the project and lowers labor costs.

我們相信我們也可以降低資本成本，使在北達科他州實現的 ATJ 計畫更具吸引力。其中一部分可以透過先從較小的工廠開始來實現，在這種情況下，每年 300 萬加侖的 ATJ，最大限度地實現模組化，從而降低專案風險並降低勞動力成本。

It's exciting enough that several companies from around the world who approached us for plants in their countries. In fact, we're on the right track for growth. We've also made progress in selling voluntary carbon abatement. Now this is separate than the LCFS credits in California or the 45Z tax credits or other carbon credits. These are actual downstream customers who buy carbon abatement in dollars per metric ton. Paul Bloom, our Chief Business Officer, Chief Carbon Officer, will talk about in a few minutes.

令人興奮的是，來自世界各地的幾家公司都與我們聯繫，希望在他們的國家建立工廠。事實上，我們正​​走在正確的成長軌道上。我們在推銷自願性碳減排方面也取得了進展。這與加州的 LCFS 信用額或 45Z 稅收抵免或其他碳信用額是不同的。這些是實際的下游客戶，他們以每公噸美元的價格購買碳減排量。我們的首席商務官、首席碳長保羅布魯姆（Paul Bloom）將在幾分鐘後發表演講。

Here's something to think about. the recent volumes of carbon sold and with other fuel contracts, we think we have about half of the potential Gevo North Dakota alcohol-to-jet plant sold out. The conditional commitment from the Department of Energy is still in place for our ATJ-60 project in South Dakota. And we expect to stay that way, eventually making progress and eventually closing it.

這是值得思考的事。根據最近銷售的碳量以及其他燃料合同，我們認為我們已經售出了大約一半的潛在 Gevo North Dakota 酒精噴射燃料工廠的燃料。能源部對我們在南達科他州的 ATJ-60 計畫的有條件承諾仍然有效。我們希望保持這種狀態，最終取得進展並最終結束它。

The DOE is still putting people in place. We know that there's work to do on their side, but we have work to do on a variety of fronts too, changing certain offtake terms to make contracts more amenable to the DOE. And we still need to learn what the plan is for the summit pipeline. I am loath, for example, to spend capital to develop a virtual rail pipeline to our North Dakota site, only to find out that Summit, as they continue to expect, have solved their pipeline issues.

能源部仍在安排人員到位。我們知道他們方面有很多工作要做，但我們也需要在各個方面開展工作，改變某些承購條款，使合約更符合能源部的規定。我們還需要了解峰會管道的計劃是什麼。例如，我不願意花費資金開發一條通往我們北達科他州工廠的虛擬鐵路管道，但卻發現 Summit 已經解決了他們的管道問題，正如他們一直期望的那樣。

While we expect that we will get the DOE loan done eventually, we aren't waiting around to get ATG capacity deployed. Hence, you can see why we wanted that Gevo North Dakota site with all of its advantages.

雖然我們預計最終將獲得 DOE 貸款，但我們不會等待 ATG 產能的部署。因此，您可以明白為什麼我們想要 Gevo North Dakota 網站及其所有優勢。

As we have said over and over, Geevo is not a one-trick pony. We don't even need to depend upon alcohol-to-jet to be cash flowing. However, that ATJ, that alcohol to growth opportunity, is a great opportunity for the future and its growth. Jet fuel, in fact, is going to be needed in this country going forward from a basic supply and demand point of view.

正如我們反覆強調的那樣，Geevo 並不是只有一招的小馬。我們甚至不需要依靠酒精來獲取現金流。然而，ATJ，即酒精的成長機會，對於未來及其成長來說是一個很好的機會。事實上，從基本的供需角度來看，這個國家未來將需要航空燃料。

Shall we import the jet fuel or make it right here in the USA? Well, we believe that ATJ should be made here in the USA. We believe that alcohol-to-jet is the most economically advantage way of adding jet fuel capacity in this country. HAFA, that jet fuel made from vegetable oil or used cooking oil or animal fat is the second best way economically.

我們應該進口航空燃料還是在美國自行生產？嗯，我們相信 ATJ 應該在美國製造。我們相信，酒精燃料轉航空燃料是我國增加航空燃料容量最具經濟優勢的方式。HAFA 表示，用植物油或廢棄食用油或動物脂肪製成的航空燃料是經濟上第二好的方法。

Making more jet fuel from fossil oil in this country would require a new petroleum refinery to be built. Now, could that happen? I suppose it's remotely possible. However, if you actually look at full cost of production, I think that an ATJ plant using ethanol as a raw material, it would be a similar cost to the jet fuel made from oil on a cash cost basis. We actually think it would be cheaper to deploy alcohol to jet overall.

在這個國家，要利用化石石油生產更多的航空燃料就需要建造一座新的石油煉油廠。那麼，這可能發生嗎？我認為這是有可能的。然而，如果你實際上看一下全部生產成本，我認為以現金成本計算，使用乙醇作為原材料的 ATJ 工廠的成本與用石油製成的航空燃料的成本相似。我們實際上認為在噴射機中使用酒精總體上會更便宜。

Now, add to all of this that we can reduce and even eliminate the carbon footprint and that there are markets and customers that are willing to pay us to do so, we think it provides a tremendous opportunity. We calculated over the next decade, the USA could use more than 30 alcohol-to-jet plants if they were 60 million gallons each. And of course, that means more if they're a little bit smaller.

現在，除了所有這些之外，我們還可以減少甚至消除碳足跡，而且有市場和客戶願意為此付費，我們認為這提供了巨大的機會。我們計算了一下，在未來十年內，美國可以使用 30 多個酒精噴射工廠，如果每個工廠的產能為 6,000 萬加侖。當然，如果它們稍微小一點，那就意味著更多。

There's enough ethanol capacity to pull this off. There's also enough corn capacity with no expansion of farming land use. All of us across the whole value chain are getting this figured out. Yes, we recognize that there's a lot of noise in the market, but we like the fundamentals, and the fundamentals indicate that this is an exciting time.

有足夠的乙醇產能來實現這一目標。玉米產能充足，無須擴大耕地面積。整個價值鏈上的所有人都在解決這個問題。是的，我們認識到市場上有很多噪音，但我們喜歡基本面，基本面表明這是一個令人興奮的時刻。

I'll turn it now over to Lynn to go over the numbers.

現在我將把這個數字交給 Lynn 來核對一下。

Thanks, Pat. Let's go over the numbers. We ended the quarter with $135 million in cash, cash equivalents, and restricted cash. Combined operating revenue and other net income was $30.9 million for the first quarter.

謝謝，帕特。讓我們回顧一下這些數字。本季末，我們的現金、現金等價物和受限現金為 1.35 億美元。第一季綜合營業收入及其他淨收入為 3,090 萬美元。

Our RNG subsidiary generated $5.7 million in revenue during the quarter. This reflects an increase of $1.7 million compared to the previous year, primarily driven by the increased LCFS credit generation due to our improved carbon score in that program, partially offset by lower rent prices.

我們的 RNG 子公司本季創造了 570 萬美元的收入。這比前一年增加了 170 萬美元，主要是由於該計劃中的碳排放評分提高，導致低碳食品服務 (LCFS) 信用額度增加，但租金價格下降部分抵消了這一增長。

Regarding our income from operations and non-GAAP adjusted EBITDA numbers at Gevo North Dakota or Gevo ND for the two months of February and March, the Income from operations was $0.5 million and adjusted EBITDA was $1.8 million. This does not include expected growth this year from monetizing the ethanol 45Z.

關於我們 2 月和 3 月兩個月 Gevo North Dakota 或 Gevo ND 的營業收入和非 GAAP 調整後 EBITDA 數字，營業收入為 50 萬美元，調整後 EBITDA 為 180 萬美元。這還不包括今年乙醇 45Z 貨幣化預期帶來的成長。

At Gevo RNG, income from operations was $1.1 million and adjusted EBITDA was $2.7 million last quarter. This also does not include expected growth this year from monetizing the biogas 45Z. So we have positive momentum with adjusted EBITDA on those two segments.

Gevo RNG 上季的營業收入為 110 萬美元，調整後 EBITDA 為 270 萬美元。這還不包括今年 45Z 沼氣貨幣化預期帶來的成長。因此，這兩個部門的調整後 EBITDA 勢頭良好。

Turning to our Gevo and Gevo fuel segments, which include R&D, project development, and other operating costs, including the development of our ATJ projects, combined net loss from operations was $21.7 million, and adjusted EBITDA loss was a combined $19.9 million last quarter.

轉向我們的 Gevo 和 Gevo 燃料部門，其中包括研發、專案開發和其他營運成本（包括我們的 ATJ 專案的開發），上個季度的綜合營運淨虧損為 2,170 萬美元，調整後的 EBITDA 虧損總計 1,990 萬美元。

Company-wide consolidated loss from operations was $20.1 million last quarter, with non-GAAP adjusted EBITDA loss of $15.4 million. We expect continued adjust to EBITDA improvement throughout the year, driven by the monetization of 45Z, increased RNG value from our new negative 339 CI score, and ongoing performance at Gevo North Dakota.

上季公司綜合營業虧損為 2,010 萬美元，非公認會計準則調整後 EBITDA 虧損為 1,540 萬美元。我們預計全年 EBITDA 將繼續改善，這得益於 45Z 的貨幣化、我們新的負 339 CI 分數帶來的 RNG 值增加以及 Gevo North Dakota 的持續表現。

With that, I'll turn it over to Chris.

說完這些，我就把麥克風交給克里斯。

Thanks. I'll expand a bit more on operations this past quarter. Since completing the acquisition of Gevo North Dakota at the end of January, we've been working towards integrating that site into the overall business of Gevo and laying the foundation for growth of the site.

謝謝。我將進一步闡述上個季度的營運情況。自一月底完成對 Gevo North Dakota 的收購以來，我們一直致力於將網站整合到 Gevo 的整體業務中，並為該網站的發展奠定基礎。

We're evaluating a number of great opportunities, and we've made progress on engineering of an ATJ or alcohol-to-jet plant that we could deploy there. This engineering effort has leveraged our ATJ design from our Lake Preston site, which is saving us time and money for development. And this is all part of our copy-paste approach to building out ATJ capacity for ourselves and for others.

我們正在評估許多絕佳的機會，並且在可以部署在那裡的 ATJ 或酒精噴氣燃料工廠的工程設計方面取得了進展。這項工程利用了我們在普雷斯頓湖工廠的 ATJ 設計，為我們節省了開發時間和金錢。這些都是我們為自己和他人建立 ATJ 能力的複製貼上方法的一部分。

Regarding operations at Gevo North Dakota, Gevo's first-quarter 2025 results reflect the impact of just two months of February and March from Gevo North Dakota. During those two months, Gevo North Dakota operated exceptionally well, producing over 11 million gallons of low-carbon ethanol while selling over 40,000 tons of high protein animal feed and 3 million pounds of corn oil, all from less than 4 million bushels of corn ground. That's a yield of about 2.9 gallons of ethanol per bushel, which we're really happy with.

關於 Gevo North Dakota 的營運情況，Gevo 2025 年第一季的業績僅反映了 Gevo North Dakota 2 月和 3 月兩個月的影響。在這兩個月中，Gevo North Dakota 的運作異常良好，生產了超過 1,100 萬加侖的低碳乙醇，同時銷售了超過 40,000 噸的高蛋白動物飼料和 300 萬磅的玉米油，而所有這些都來自不到 400 萬蒲式耳的玉米田。這意味著每蒲式耳可產出約 2.9 加侖乙醇，我們對此感到非常滿意。

We see those as strong volumes and yields during two months of production, and this reflects the consistent operational excellence of the facility.

我們認為這兩個月的生產期間產量和產量都很高，這反映了該工廠一貫的卓越運作。

In addition to producing those value-added energy and food products, we captured and sequestered 29,000 metric tons of carbon dioxide at the site.

除了生產這些加值能源和食品產品外，我們還在該地點捕獲並封存了 29,000 公噸二氧化碳。

And with an estimated CI score of 21, where our ethanol use in the 45Z credit model, we've avoided an (technical difficulty) 7,000 metric tons of carbon emissions as a result of the use of our low carbon fuels.

我們的 CI 評分估計為 21，在 45Z 信用模型中使用乙醇，由於使用低碳燃料，我們避免了（技術難度）7,000 公噸的碳排放。

At Gevo RNG, where we convert dairy manure into renewable natural gas, we produced about 80,000 million BTUs of renewable natural gas last quarter. So across the Gevo operations, including the two months from Gevo North Dakota and three months of RNG, we generated over 100,000 metric tons of carbon abatement last quarter.

在 Gevo RNG，我們將乳牛糞便轉化為可再生天然氣，上個季度我們生產了約 800 億 BTU 的可再生天然氣。因此，在 Gevo 運營過程中，包括 Gevo North Dakota 的兩個月和 RNG 的三個月，我們上個季度產生了超過 100,000 公噸的碳減排量。

With that, I'll hand it over.

說完，我就把它交給你了。

Thanks, Chris. On the commercial front, we continue to make solid progress for our adjusted EBITDA-generating businesses that Chris just discussed and our alcohol-to-jet growth projects. Let me start with Gevo North Dakota and RNG as we are negotiating our first 45Z tax credit sales.

謝謝，克里斯。在商業方面，我們繼續在克里斯剛才討論的調整後 EBITDA 生成業務和酒精到噴射機成長專案方面取得穩步進展。讓我從 Gevo North Dakota 和 RNG 開始，因為我們正在協商我們的第一筆 45Z 稅收抵免銷售。

Back in December, we received our Form 637 approval notifications from the US Department of Treasury and Internal Revenue Service, which are required for section 45Z credit generation. The team has been working to put all the necessary pieces of these agreements in place, and we anticipate finalizing them in Q2.

去年 12 月，我們收到了美國財政部和國稅局發來的 637 號表格批准通知，這是第 45Z 條信貸生成所必需的。該團隊一直在努力將這些協議的所有必要部分落實到位，我們預計將在第二季完成這些協議。

As Pat mentioned, we're also developing our market position for the sale of durable carbon dioxide removal credits, or CDRs. Gevo North Dakota is actively generating high-quality carbon removals via CCS from biogenic carbon. Under the previous owners, our Gevo North Dakota facility was the first ethanol plant in the world to list CDRs on a public carbon registry, and they made initial sales.

正如帕特所提到的，我們也在發展耐用二氧化碳去除信用額（CDR）的市場地位。Gevo North Dakota 正在積極透過 CCS 從生物碳中產生高品質的碳去除。在前任所有者的領導下，我們位於北達科他州 Gevo 的工廠成為世界上第一家將 CDR 列入公共碳登記冊的乙醇工廠，並且他們進行了首次銷售。

Now we're in the process of expanding sales into that market and structuring the team under the leadership of our chief business development officer, Alex Clayton. We expect to share more announcements soon as we help meet the needs of global customers looking to reduce their carbon footprint with high-quality CDRs.

目前，我們正在擴大該市場的銷售，並在首席業務發展官亞歷克斯·克萊頓的領導下組建團隊。我們期望很快分享更多公告，以幫助滿足希望透過高品質 CDR 減少碳足跡的全球客戶的需求。

On the SAF front, we signed a groundbreaking offtake agreement with Future Energy Global. Under this deal, FEG will acquire Scope 1 and Scope 3 emissions credits tied to 10 million gallons per year of fuel from our future ATJ production. That value is in addition to and separate from the physical fuel, RIN value, and other state and federal tax credits we expect to obtain.

在 SAF 方面，我們與 Future Energy Global 簽署了一項開創性的承購協議。根據該協議，FEG 將從我們未來的 ATJ 生產中獲得與每年 1000 萬加侖燃料相關的範圍 1 和範圍 3 排放信用額。該價值是除實際燃料、RIN 值以及我們預期獲得的其他州和聯邦稅收抵免之外的，並且是獨立的。

And it shows the market value of our carbon attributes. By separating the carbon attributes from the physical fuel, we anticipate this unique book and claim approach with FEG will be a market accelerator that will expand as we work together to provide greater flexibility for corporate customers, airlines, and airline lessors to access the solutions they need.

並且它顯示了我們的碳屬性的市場價值。透過將碳屬性與實體燃料分離，我們預計這種與 FEG 合作的獨特的預訂和索賠方法將成為市場加速器，隨著我們共同努力為企業客戶、航空公司和航空租賃商提供更大的靈活性以獲得他們所需的解決方案，這種市場加速器將會不斷擴大。

Finally, we're actively pursuing opportunities to develop and deploy our ATJ plant designs and business system with partners around the world. We have the IP, engineering playbook, commercial capabilities, digital supply chain tracking solutions through Verity, and the network of partners to de-risk and scale this new industry.

最後，我們正在積極尋求機會與世界各地的合作夥伴一起開發和部署我們的 ATJ 工廠設計和業務系統。我們擁有 IP、工程手冊、商業能力、透過 Verity 提供的數位供應鏈追蹤解決方案以及合作夥伴網絡，可以降低風險並擴大這個新興產業。

We don't plan to own 100% of every plant. In many cases, we'll be developers, licensers, and strategic investors. We'll have more to share in the future as these opportunities to develop.

我們並不打算 100% 擁有每家工廠。在許多情況下，我們是開發商、授權商和策略投資者。隨著這些機會的發展，我們將來還會有更多內容可以分享。

And with that, back to you, Pat.

好了，回到你這裡，帕特。

Thanks, Paul. I want to conclude by saying that we are showing that domestic energy production can go hand in hand with economic growth, carbon reduction, and production of food. You can get all of these things together if it's done right, and that's what we're all about.

謝謝，保羅。最後我想說，我們正在證明國內能源生產可以與經濟成長、減碳和糧食生產並進。如果做得正確，你可以把所有這些東西放在一起，這就是我們要做的。

It's more than about just fuel. It's about creating American jobs, supporting farmers, strengthening the rural economy. And unlike a lot of others in the space, we don't have to sit around and wait for government guidance on how sustainable agricultural impacts the 45Z tax credit. We plan on monetizing the 45Z this year because we've already got an attractive CI score even without the sustainable agriculture. Well, sustainable agriculture will be a further upside potential for us if that happens.

這不僅僅是燃料的問題。這是為了創造美國就業機會、支持農民、強化農村經濟。與該領域的許多其他人不同，我們不必坐等政府指導永續農業如何影響 45Z 稅收抵免。我們計劃今年將 45Z 貨幣化，因為即使沒有永續農業，我們已經獲得了相當吸引人的 CI 分數。如果發生這種情況，永續農業將為我們帶來進一步的上升潛力。

We believe that our Verity business, where we can track and trace land use ag practices, carbon footprint crops, and other raw materials, in addition to, we can track the process energy needed to produce the products and consider all the impacts across the across the whole of the life cycle, making it all auditable by anyone ideally, visible, and most importantly, all based on science and data. This is going to be extremely important in the future.

我們相信，我們的 Verity 業務可以追蹤和追溯土地使用農業實踐、碳足跡作物和其他原材料，此外，我們還可以追蹤生產產品所需的過程能量，並考慮整個生命週期的所有影響，理想情況下，任何人都可以審核、查看，最重要的是，所有這些都基於科學和數據。這在未來將會變得極為重要。

We want customers, consumers to know that they're getting something real for their money. We know that with data, we can push back on the false narratives around land use. Yes, we can measure land. Any of us can. Anyone in this industry can if they desired to do so. It's a fallacy that they can't. We have the ability to do so.

我們希望客戶和消費者知道他們花的錢買的是真正的東西。我們知道，有了數據，我們就可以反駁有關土地使用的錯誤說法。是的，我們可以測量土地。我們任何人都可以。只要願意，這個行業的任何人都可以做到。他們不能這樣做，這是一種謬論。我們有能力做到這一點。

We can push back on the food and fuel narrative. Real data shows that by using row crops, that adds protein and nutrition to the food chain. It's more economical, and yet you can still produce.

我們可以反駁有關食品和燃料的言論。真實數據表明，透過使用行栽作物，可以為食物鏈增加蛋白質和營養。它更經濟，但你仍然可以生產。

Raw materials to make energy products. The right paradigm is about producing energy and food concurrently. It's better for the world, better for economic development. Verity will help make this all clear.

製造能源產品的原料。正確的模式是同時生產能源和食物。這對世界更有利，對經濟發展更有利。Verity 將幫助您弄清楚這一切。

There's certainly more to talk about, but that wraps up our prepared remarks. We're now ready to go to the open line for questions. Operator, please go ahead.

當然還有很多事情要談，但我們準備好的發言到此結束。我們現在可以透過開放熱線回答問題。接線員，請繼續。

(Operator Instructions) Dushyant Ailani, Jefferies.

（操作員指示）Dushyant Ailani，Jefferies。

Hey, team. This is Whitney Mutalemwa dialing in for Dushyant Ailani. Congratulations on a solid quarter despite a weaker-than-expected crush margin environment.

嘿，團隊。我是 Whitney Mutalemwa，正在撥打 Dushyant Ailani 的電話。儘管壓榨利潤環境弱於預期，但本季業績依然穩健。

You ended the quarter with $135 million in cash equivalents and restricted cash. I'm aware you don't normally provide guidance for cash, but given the Gevo North Dakota acquisition, the $40 million CapEx spend for ATJ-60 and just some other general maintenance spend, how should we think about the cash cadence for the year?

本季末，您的現金等價物和受限現金為 1.35 億美元。我知道您通常不會提供現金指導，但考慮到 Gevo North Dakota 的收購、ATJ-60 的 4000 萬美元資本支出以及一些其他一般維護支出，我們應該如何考慮今年的現金節奏？

Sure. Well, we're going to be spending $40 million this year on ATJ-60. We've dialed back the spending on that, although we are doing some work and shifting resources into the ATJ-30 as we're waiting for the timelines to start out for the DOE. So that'll be less.

當然。嗯，我們今年將在 ATJ-60 上花費 4000 萬美元。我們已經減少了這方面的支出，儘管我們正在做一些工作並將資源轉移到 ATJ-30，因為我們正在等待 DOE 的時間表開始實施。所以數量會少一點。

I think we also -- well, I know for a fact we're also planning on refinancing our RNG plant. We announced that shortly as to what we're doing there, but that'll also free up some cash. So you're right, we don't give guidance on cash, but we should be in pretty pretty strong shape for the rest of the year.

我認為我們也——嗯，我知道事實上我們也計劃為我們的 RNG 工廠進行再融資。我們很快就宣布了我們在那裡所做的事情，但這也會釋放一些現金。所以你說得對，我們沒有提供現金方面的指導，但今年剩餘時間我們的狀況應該會相當強勁。

Got it. I understand. And then just as a follow up, relating to ATJ-30, I don't believe there is a timeline disclosed on this project. Obviously, it's smaller and modular. How would the timeframe compare to ATJ-60? Yeah, that will be all. Thank you.

知道了。我明白。然後作為後續問題，關於 ATJ-30，我認為該專案沒有披露時間表。顯然，它更小、更模組化。此時間框架與 ATJ-60 相比如何？是啊，就這些。謝謝。

Same or sooner than ATJ-60 is my guess. We have been working on the ATJ-30 for quite a time here, and it is a copy-edit-paste-type of an approach and that we already have these designs worked out for the ATJ-60. This is about making it smaller, but the concepts are the same, which is that's actually the harder part, getting a lot of companies are going to fail because they simply don't know how to design a commercial plant. Well, we do. That's our background.

我猜測與 ATJ-60 相同或更早。我們已經在 ATJ-30 上工作了很長時間，這是一種複製-編輯-貼上類型的方法，我們已經為 ATJ-60 制定了這些設計。這是為了使其變得更小，但概念是一樣的，這實際上是更難的部分，許多公司將會失敗，因為他們根本不知道如何設計商業工廠。嗯，是的。這就是我們的背景。

So those kind of things have already been thought through. So we expect it to be more straightforward. We also expect that it's going to generate a lot of interest because it's going to be a lot cheaper to build than an ATJ-60 that has project financing.

所以這些事情都已經考慮過了。因此我們希望它更加直接。我們也預計它會引起人們的極大興趣，因為建造它的成本比擁有專案融資的 ATJ-60 便宜得多。

So that's going to be very interesting. We'll talk more about it once I have more numbers baked and then who else was going to participate with us up there, but it'd be a project level game again for us in that -- except it's going to be adding on to our site. So it's a pretty, it's actually quite exciting up there between the -- all that's happening around, the 45Z, I don't know, in the Ways and Means Committee and stuff and what's being proposed. It's like, all right, this is going our direction finally.

這將會非常有趣。一旦我掌握了更多的數字，我們就會更多地談論它，然後還有誰會和我們一起參加，但對我們來說，這將再次是一個項目級別的遊戲 - 除非它將添加到我們的網站上。所以這是一件非常、實際上非常令人興奮的事情——所有正在發生的事情，45Z，我不知道，在籌款委員會和其他東西以及正在提出的建議之間。就像，好吧，事情終於朝著我們的方向發展了。

Amit Dayal, H.C. Wainwright.

阿米特·達亞爾、H.C. 溫賴特。

Congrats, Pat, on all the progress. Great to see the operating revenues and EBITDA starting to come through. I'm just curious, with respect to the carbon abatement product, it looks very interesting. Is there an established market for this already that you can tap into immediately? Or will there be some work required to be done to build that product and create a market for it?

祝賀帕特的所有進步。很高興看到營業收入和 EBITDA 開始顯現。我只是好奇，就碳減排產品而言，它看起來非常有趣。是否已經存在一個您可以立即進入的成熟市場？或者是否需要做一些工作來製造該產品並為其創造市場？

Paul, why don't you go ahead and take this question? This is your work.

保羅，你為什麼不繼續回答這個問題呢？這是你的工作。

Yeah, sure. No, thanks, Amit, for the question. There is already a market that's growing for these durable carbon dioxide removals, right? And so if we choose to take that value and sell it separate from the fuel, they're traditionally classified as BECCS CDRs. So that's called bioenergy with carbon capture and sequestration.

是的，當然。不，阿米特，謝謝你的提問。這些持久的二氧化碳去除劑的市場已經不斷增長了，對嗎？因此，如果我們選擇採用該價值並將其與燃料分開出售，它們傳統上被歸類為 BECCS CDR。這就是所謂的碳捕獲與封存生物能源。

So that's really the market that we're in today and continuing to grow our presence there, which again, was really started with the work that the Red Trail owners did before we acquired Gevo North Dakota. Now we're really going to grow that business and look at it as the optionality between selling that carbon value with the fuel or separate from that fuel, depending on what we see in the market.

這就是我們今天所在的市場，我們將繼續擴大在那裡的業務，這實際上始於我們收購 Gevo North Dakota 之前 Red Trail 所有者所做的工作。現在，我們真正要發展這項業務，並將其視為將碳價值與燃料一起出售還是與燃料分開出售之間的可選性，這取決於我們在市場上看到的情況。

Understood. Thank you. And then, with respect to 45Z, it looks like you're getting an extension on that in at least what has been proposed so far. So that's really good news for you, guys.

明白了。謝謝。然後，關於 45Z，看起來至少在目前提出的方案中，你會得到延長。這對你們來說真是個好消息。

Are you potentially going to start monetizing this right away in 2Q, Pat? And potentially, just wanted to see if I heard it correctly, are we getting positive EBITDA in 2Q potentially or later in the year? Just wanted to get a little bit more concrete color on that.

帕特，您是否有可能在第二季立即開始將其貨幣化？並且潛在的，只是想看看我是否聽得正確，我們是否有可能在第二季度或今年晚些時候獲得正的 EBITDA？只是想對此有更具體的了解。

Yeah, So yes, we expect to monetize it sooner rather than later. These are credits that exist and they're already proven. Our CI scores are solid enough. Unlike most companies, ours are really solid. I mean, we're metering carbon going down a hole. So yeah, we expect to monetize it and that'll surprise the heck out of people, right?

是的，我們希望盡快將其貨幣化。這些都是已經存在並且已經得到證實的信用。我們的 CI 分數足夠穩定。與大多數公司不同，我們的公司確實非常穩健。我的意思是，我們正在測量進入洞中的碳。是的，我們希望將其貨幣化，這會讓人們大吃一驚，對吧？

And then as far as the EBITDA positive, that should be overall for the year. We should be positive is what we'd expect. That's what we're shooting for. We're managing the cost side of things carefully.

就 EBITDA 正值而言，這應該是全年總體情況。我們應該保持積極的態度，這正是我們所期望的。這就是我們的目標。我們正在謹慎管理成本方面的問題。

We see that we have these streams of money that can come into us and we'll use those. But that's our goal is to do this, because one of the questions that people always have, they always ask me, when are you going to raise more money, Pat? You're going to run out of cash. You're going to run of -- no, we aren't.

我們看到，我們有這些資金流入，我們會利用它們。但這就是我們的目標，因為人們總是會問我一個問題，你什麼時候能籌集到更多的資金，帕特？你的現金將會用完。你會逃跑——不，我們不會。

Sorry, that's not the plan. The plan is we already have enough operations to be self-sufficient. That's the idea. And we can execute projects. We have a well developed intellectual property portfolio, engineering portfolio, project portfolio, mature projects. It's time to go execute those things.

抱歉，這不是計劃。根據計劃，我們已經擁有足夠的營運能力來實現自給自足。就是這個意思。我們可以執行專案。我們擁有完善的智慧財產權組合、工程組合、專案組合、成熟的專案。是時候去執行這些事情了。

But the idea of big burn with no outcome, no. We'll have to still get money for projects to execute, whether we expand ethanol or we do ATJ where expand ethanol, well, that's what OIC said they're interested in. Great, we'll find out. So we are pretty -- we feel pretty confident in where we are.

但沒有結果的大燒錢的想法是不行的。我們仍然需要獲得資金來執行項目，無論是擴大乙醇生產還是開展擴大乙醇生產的 ATJ，嗯，這就是 OIC 所說的他們感興趣的。太好了，我們會找到答案的。因此，我們對目前的狀況非常有信心。

Now in terms of the 45Z, I was in DC all last week talking to senators and representatives and their staff. And I got to tell you, it's pretty strong support for 45Z. So I think they're going to get it done. If they get the big beautiful bill done, I think we're going to be in good shape.

就 45Z 而言，我上週一直在華盛頓特區與參議員、眾議員及其工作人員進行交談。我必須告訴你，它對 45Z 的支持非常有力。所以我認為他們會完成這件事。如果他們能完成這項偉大的美麗法案，我想我們的情況就會很好。

The principles in play, I think, are pay for performance. You got to do something in order to get into the money. It's a very -- it's more narrow rather than wide, meaning you have to actually do something and the criteria remains stringent. We are in good shape.

我認為，遊戲的原則是按績效付酬。你必須採取一些行動才能獲得金錢。它的範圍非常狹窄而不是廣泛，這意味著你必須實際做一些事情，而且標準仍然很嚴格。我們的狀態很好。

I think that extending it through 2031 was at least a year better than I was expecting. So I was kind of excited to see that. And the rest of it, well, like one of the really important ones, they're getting rid of the indirect land use as a component of measuring CI outstanding, because that's bogus anyway. There's not any data that's science based that supports that. And so that is one of the problems that in games that people play is they say, well, gosh, I got a waste feed stock. It has a zero.

我認為將其延長至 2031 年至少比我預期的要好一年。所以我有點興奮地看到這一點。其餘部分，嗯，就像其中非常重要的一點，他們正在擺脫間接土地使用作為衡量 CI 未完成部分的組成部分，因為這無論如何都是虛假的。沒有任何基於科學的數據支持這一點。所以這就是人們在玩遊戲時遇到的問題之一，他們會說，天哪，我得到了廢棄的飼料。它有一個零。

Well, no, they don't have a zero. Not really. That's bogus. They have a charge. Just people don't want to look at that. Well, guess what? Now they said, well, corn doesn't have it, has a zero feedstock, [ILOC] score as well. Cool. That'll make a -- and improve in the future the CI score even at our Gevo North Dakota plant and any of our other operations, and it also will help benefit the soybean people.

嗯，不，他們沒有零。並不真地。那是假的。他們要承擔責任。只是人們不想看那個。好吧，猜猜怎麼著？現在他們說，玉米沒有這個特性，其原料含量為零，[ILOC] 得分也為零。涼爽的。這將在未來提高我們位於北達科他州 Gevo 的工廠和任何其他工廠的 CI 評分，同時也將使大豆種植者受益。

And so this is one of the big -- there's been a lot of game playing and in the Yuko area you use cooking oil and HAFA, where people are using counterfeit -- or the claims that people are using counterfeit oils and stuff. So it just goes along.

所以這是一個大問題——有很多玩弄手段，在 Yuko 地區，人們使用食用油和 HAFA，而人們使用的是假冒產品——或者有人聲稱人們使用的是假冒油和東西。所以一切就這樣繼續下去了。

It's a brilliant idea. They did a good job. It makes sense. It levels the playing field. I think they still should go pound on CORSIA and Europe, because of their biases against US agriculture.

這是一個絕妙的主意。他們做得很好。這是有道理的。它創造了公平的競爭環境。我認為他們仍然應該嚴厲打擊 CORSIA 和歐洲，因為他們對美國農業有偏見。

But overall, I got to say I was like pleasantly shocked, surprised. It's great. It's really good. I hope they get it done. I hope the whole bill works and they make it all happen. But -- and even if they don't, we're in good shape. We're in the money for 45Z already.

但總的來說，我不得不說我感到驚喜和驚訝。這很棒。真的很好。我希望他們能完成它。我希望整個法案能夠有效並且他們能夠實現這一切。但是——即使他們不這樣做，我們的狀況也很好。我們已經賺到 45Z 的錢了。

(Operator Instructions) Derrick Whitfield, Texas Capital.

（操作員指示）德里克·惠特菲爾德，德克薩斯首府。

Hey, good afternoon, Pat and team.

嘿，帕特和團隊，下午好。

Hey, how are you doing?

嘿，你好嗎？

Maybe staying on 45Z for the first question. Clearly some positive news yesterday on the extension of the credits to 2031, removal of indirect land use, but also the creation of a dairy RNG pathway.

也許第一個問題會停留在 45Z 上。昨天顯然有一些積極的消息，包括將信貸延長至 2031 年、取消間接土地使用，以及創建乳製品 RNG 途徑。

Yes.

是的。

Could you speak to the amount you expect to receive for ethanol and dairy RNG molecules?

您能說說您預計乙醇和乳製品 RNG 分子的銷售嗎？

Well, it's proportional to the CI scores. So when you have -- we're already at about a [20]. Chris mentioned that in his comments at 21 and he rounded upward. I'm rounding downward because I think there's a couple other things we can do still. But so we'll be down in the 20s before taking out indirect land use.

嗯，它與 CI 分數成正比。所以當你有—我們已經[20]。克里斯在 21 歲的評論中提到了這一點，並且他向上舍入了。我將其向下舍入，因為我認為我們還可以做其他一些事情。但在取消間接土地使用之前，我們的數字將下降到 20 多歲。

So that puts us down what? Another 8, 10 points. That will be the lowest CI score for ethanol plant. And so when you figure they're worth what a couple cents, you got to get below 50 -- you got to get a 50% reduction before you get the money, okay?

那麼這讓我們失望了什麼？又有8、10分。這將是乙醇工廠的最低 CI 分數。因此，當您估算它們的價值為幾美分時，您必須將其降至 50 以下——您必須先獲得 50% 的折扣才能拿到錢，好嗎？

And then we should be -- it's $0.02 per CI point. So that's a -- it's going to be pretty healthy. Now what they're trying to do is sponsor economic development, growth, investment, jobs. That's actually what they're trying to do.

然後我們應該是——每個 CI 點 0.02 美元。所以這將會非常健康。現在他們試圖做的是支持經濟發展、成長、投資和就業。這實際上就是他們正在嘗試做的事情。

We are firm believers that tax credits have to have a sunset. They should not last forever because that creates wrong behavior. Everybody thinks they can -- when you do that, really, people get starry-eyed in what they think they can do. No, they actually should help pay for a plant and its capital and the jobs that are created. And that's the right idea.

我們堅信稅收抵免必須有一個終止的期限。它們不應該永遠存在，因為那會導致錯誤的行為。每個人都認為自己可以——當你這樣做的時候，實際上，人們會對自己可以做的事情充滿幻想。不，他們實際上應該幫助支付工廠及其資本以及所創造的就業機會。這是正確的想法。

And that is the approach that we're seeing this Congress take in their attitude. It's great. So it's significant.

我們看到國會採取的就是這種態度。這很棒。所以這很重要。

And then on the RNG side, that was fascinating and caught me by surprise. I was shocked that they included that because I wasn't expecting them to -- the issue had been that they – one of the things when you're using a biogas or making a biogas is you can do rather than letting whatever the raw material is, just digest and spew methane into the atmosphere.

然後在 RNG 方面，這令人著迷並且讓我感到驚訝。我很震驚他們會把這一點包括在內，因為我沒想到他們會這樣做——問題是，當你使用沼氣或製造沼氣時，你可以做的一件事就是，不是讓原材料消化並將甲烷排放到大氣中。

By using the RNG techniques or the processing, you can collect that. And you also avoid then methane. It's a methane avoidance factor that goes into the LCA calculations. They punted it in the original 45Z calculations, and they just averaged everyone together, whether was landfill or dairy or whatever.

透過使用 RNG 技術或處理，您可以收集這些資訊。而且你還可以避免甲烷。這是納入 LCA 計算的甲烷避免因子。他們在原始的 45Z 計算中就放棄了它，然後對所有人進行平均，無論是垃圾掩埋場、乳牛場還是其他什麼。

And what that means is -- for instance, I think it was worth -- I don't remember exactly, Derek, it was like 20 points or something? It was only like a negative 20 or something, very small, but they averaged all types, all RNG methodologies all together.

這意味著——例如，我認為它值——我不記得具體數字了，德里克，它值 20 分左右？它只有負 20 左右，非常小，但它們對所有類型、所有 RNG 方法進行了平均。

What they're calling out here now is that you've got to do it discreetly. So it'll look probably more like a California where we're at a minus 330, 339 score. So they have work to do to go figure that part out. In the meantime, that doesn't stop us from already monetizing that RNG credit. But I'll be very keen on seeing how all that dust settles.

他們現在呼籲的是，你必須謹慎行事。因此，它看起來可能更像加州，我們的分數為-330、339。所以他們必須努力去解決這個問題。同時，這並不妨礙我們將 RNG 信用貨幣化。但我非常渴望看到這一切塵埃落定。

The argument that the IRS had last time was that there's too much work in the working group in the prior administration. There's just too much work to keep track of it all. So they established everything. Well, this one calls out that they got to go calculate it. That's very good for us because we have one of the best RNG facilities in the country.

美國國稅局上次提出的論點是，前政府工作小組的工作太多。要追蹤所有這些事情實在是太費工作量了。所以他們建立了一切。好吧，這個叫他們去計算一下。這對我們來說非常好，因為我們擁有全國最好的 RNG 設施之一。

So I can say I was -- this was a good week in terms of what I'm seeing in these bills. And what's fascinating and good is that the Republican leadership, they understand what we're doing. They know us pretty well, and they know that we're abating carbon. But they also know that we're doing cost-effective products and creating jobs and helping agriculture and rural development. It's all of those things together that matter.

所以我可以說——從我看到的這些帳單來看，這是很好的一周。令人高興和高興的是，共和黨領導層了解我們在做什麼。他們非常了解我們，他們知道我們正在減少碳排放。但他們也知道，我們生產具有成本效益的產品，創造就業機會，並幫助農業和農村發展。所有這些事情加在一起才重要。

Completely agree, Pat. And we're hearing from ministry that you're potentially going to see a repeal against the transferability that was stated in that House bill.

完全同意，帕特。我們從部裡獲悉，眾議院法案中所述的可轉讓性可能會被廢除。

From a Senate perspective, what would you guys -- I mean, would you expect this to be very similar to what we saw from the House? Are there things that you're looking for out of that side that may be more favorable or less favorable for that matter?

從參議院的角度來看，你們會怎麼樣——我的意思是，你們認為這與我們在眾議院看到的情況非常相似嗎？您是否希望從中得到更有利或更不利的事物？

No. I thought it was about -- honestly, the only, the thing that you're right on the transferability of the 2027 of the tax credits, I actually think that that's a good thing. And here's why I think it can be a good thing and this is a can be a good thing, is that it forces investment in plants if you want that, to take advantage of that.

不。我認為這是關於——老實說，唯一的一點，你關於 2027 年稅收抵免的可轉移性的說法是正確的，我實際上認為這是一件好事。這就是為什麼我認為這可能是一件好事，而且這可能是一件好事，因為如果你想要的話，它可以迫使人們投資工廠，並利用這一點。

So someone who has a tax burden needs to put up capital into a plant in order to get that tax credit. That actually makes a lot of sense, if the intent is build capital, deploy plants. So I kind of like that.

因此，有稅收負擔的人需要向工廠投入資金才能獲得稅收抵免。如果目的是建立資本、部署工廠，那麼這實際上非常有意義。所以我有點喜歡這樣。

And of course, the alternative was that you can just sell the tax credit to anybody. Well, that is convenient. But I like from a policy standpoint, I kind of favor -- I like these things that favor industrial investment and growth.

當然，另一個選擇是，你可以將稅收抵免出售給任何人。嗯，那很方便。但從政策角度來看，我有點贊成——我喜歡這些有利於工業投資和成長的事情。

I also like the other language -- I forget what Bill was, I was just looking at it today where I was talking about depreciation and all that kind of stuff. They're trying to make it favorable for investment in America. Outstanding, good guys. This is good thing. So I like that quite a lot. So it's pretty good.

我也喜歡另一種語言——我忘了​​比爾是什麼了，我今天剛看過它，當時我在談論折舊和所有類似的東西。他們正在努力使美國有利於投資。傑出的，好人。這是件好事。所以我非常喜歡這個。所以這非常好。

Now remind me the second part of your question there, Derrick. I lost track of my mind.

現在請提醒我你問題的第二部分，德瑞克。我失去了理智。

I think you covered it well. It just relates to any changes you would expect coming out of the Senate side versus the House.

我認為你講得很好。它只是與你所期望的參議院與眾議院之間的任何變化有關。

I think I expect noise in the Senate side. And the reason I expect noise is there's a fight that's a foot. And it's not a Senate fight. It's a fight of people in.

我認為參議院方面可能會出現一些爭議。我預計會有噪音，因為那裡正在發生一場打架。這不是參議院之爭。這是一場人民之間的鬥爭。

There's a group that wants Blenders' credit. Well, the Blenders' credit benefits a narrow group of people, where a production tax credit benefits a whole huge number of people. And so there's strong support for a producer's tax credit versus a Blenders' tax credit.

有一群人想要獲得 Blenders 的榮譽。嗯，攪拌機抵免僅使一小部分人受益，而生產稅收抵免則使大量人受益。因此，人們強烈支持生產者的稅收抵免，而不是攪拌機的稅收抵免。

And heck, while people like us are the ones doing the work anyway and taking the risk, the guys downstream blending aren't doing that. They're just blending. So there's that noise, that's going to create some noise. It's going to show up in the form of maybe some alternatives, but I think they'll get beat back.

哎呀，儘管像我們這樣的人無論如何都會做這項工作並承擔風險，但下游混合的人卻不會這樣做。它們只是混合在一起。所以會有噪音，會產生一些噪音。它可能會以一些替代方案的形式出現，但我認為他們會被擊退。

So we've heard strong support on the Senate side, same way as on the House. However, it's all got to go through markup. There'll be twists and turns, and in the end, I think it's going to look a lot like what we just saw from the House, maybe with a couple tweaks, but nothing substantial.

因此，我們聽到了參議院和眾議院的強烈支持。然而，這一切都必須經過標記。其中會有曲折，最終，我認為它會看起來很像我們剛剛在眾議院看到的那樣，可能會有一些調整，但沒有實質的變化。

This getting rid of leveling the playing field, land direct land use is a huge deal. This is the main way -- indirect land use is the way that enviros penalize US agriculture and raise money for themselves. And it's not okay. Europe uses it as a hammer against feed stocks that could win their business. I mean, from an economic standpoint, they ban it, but then they go ahead and turn around and allow their own farmers to do things.

擺脫公平競爭環境，直接利用土地是一個巨大的交易。這是主要方式——間接土地使用是環保人士懲罰美國農業並為自己籌集資金的方式。這可不行。歐洲用它來打擊那些可能贏得其業務的飼料股。我的意思是，從經濟角度來看，他們禁止這種做法，但隨後他們轉而允許自己的農民這樣做。

So it's going to be very, very interesting to see. Let all this dust settle. And the 45Z in the grand scheme of things is pretty small potatoes in that bill. It's a tiny, tiny thing on the tail of the dog.

所以這將會是非常非常有趣的事情。讓這一切塵埃落定吧。從總體上看，45Z 在該法案中所佔比例很小。它是狗尾巴上的一個非常小的東西。

And I'd be remiss if I didn't ask just one last question on your off-take agreements with Future Energy Global. Could you speak to the amount of value you're receiving for Scope 1 and Scope 3 emission credits in dollars per ton?

如果我不就你們與 Future Energy Global 簽訂的承購協議問最後一個問題，那我就太失職了。您能否談談您從範圍 1 和範圍 3 排放信用額中獲得的價值（以美元/噸計算）是多少？

And again, just in generalities here, I'm not looking for the exact number, just so we can start to think about that incremental value from a volunteer perspective. And then just confirm that it's driven by additionality requirements for the production of SAF.

再說一次，我只是泛泛而談，並不尋求確切的數字，只是為了讓我們能夠從志工的角度開始思考增量價值。然後確認它是由 SAF 生產的額外要求所驅動的。

Yeah. So I'm going have Paul answer this question. But Paul, as you give it to us, give a range of what's out there in the marketplace of the kind of credits, and just kind of what you're seeing and what's happening. Because I think this is an important question, because it is -- I know that the analysts in general, they're always looking at the LCFS or the 45Z and they know what those are.

是的。所以我讓保羅來回答這個問題。但是保羅，正如你向我們介紹的那樣，請給出市場上存在的各種信貸情況，以及你所看到的和正在發生的事情。因為我認為這是一個重要的問題，因為它是——我知道分析師通常總是關注 LCFS 或 45Z，他們知道它們是什麼。

This is a new thing though. So you kind of got to give them guidance on the dollars per ton.

但這是一個新事物。所以你必須給他們每噸美元的指導。

Yeah, sure thing. No, great question and appreciate that. And I mean, these values are well north of the types of carbon value that we see in LCFS markets today. So we can't give you -- so well over in the hundreds of dollars a ton type of range. So we're pretty excited about that.

是的，當然可以。不，這個問題問得很好，我很感激。我的意思是，這些價值遠遠高於我們今天在低碳食品市場上看到的碳價值類型。所以我們不能給你——每噸超過數百美元的價格。所以我們對此感到非常興奮。

And really makes the case for the value of the carbon abatement and the book and claim case, because you're not going to have staff at every airport, but you've got customers who want to access staff. And that's where Future Energy Global can really help customers by taking these Scope 1s for airlines or the operators and the Scope 3s for the customer and basically giving them options to do this in book and claim style.

這確實證明了碳減排和預訂及索賠案例的價值，因為你不會在每個機場都安排工作人員，但你擁有想要接觸工作人員的客戶。這就是未來能源全球 (Future Energy Global) 能夠真正幫助客戶的地方，它為航空公司或營運商提供範圍 1，為客戶提供範圍 3，並基本上為他們提供以書本和索賠方式進行操作的選項。

So it really expands the capability and the market reach. And that's why we've got not just this first deal, but we hope that it's a series of deals that turn out this way.

因此它確實擴大了能力和市場範圍。這就是為什麼我們不只是達成了這第一筆交易，而且我們希望達成一系列這樣的交易。

Yeah. The other thing that is we're trying to make sure that we have access to that market directly rather than losing it to somebody who's blending in the middle because that's historically what's happened with some of our competitor companies, is that those Scope 3s in particular get lost in the channel somewhere and then someone else monetized them. We're going to try to keep that for ourselves. And it's an important part of the strategy. And that's, course, the whole reason of Verity and all the rest. And that really does help us.

是的。另一件事是，我們試圖確保我們能夠直接進入該市場，而不是將其輸給夾在中間的某個人，因為從歷史上看，我們的一些競爭對手公司就發生過這種情況，特別是那些範圍 3 在某個渠道中迷失了方向，然後其他人將其貨幣化。我們將盡力為自己保留它。這是該戰略的重要組成部分。當然，這就是 Verity 和所有其他事物的全部原因。這確實對我們有幫助。

Peter Gastreich, Water Tower Research.

Peter Gastreich，水塔研究公司。

Thanks for the presentation today and congratulations on your progress. You've got some great momentum here. Just three questions I have about the ATJ-30 in North Dakota.

感謝您今天的演講，並祝賀您的進步。你們在這裡獲得了巨大的動力。我只有三個關於北達科他州 ATJ-30 的問題。

First of all, it's great to hear that you have more than 50% of that capacity that's sold for ATJ-30. Are these the entirely new discussions you're having? Or does this 50% reflect some excess demand, perhaps from your volumes at ATJ-60? So effectively, are these customers you already have in tow in South Dakota, and now you have the additional volumes that you can give them in North Dakota?

首先，我們很高興聽到你們有超過 50% 的產能用於銷售 ATJ-30。這些是你們正在進行的全新討論嗎？或者這 50% 反映了一些過度需求，可能來自 ATJ-60 的銷售？那麼實際上，這些客戶是不是已經在南達科他州有了，現在你們又可以在北達科他州給他們額外的供應量了？

They're different. And the reason they're different is because the contract structures are different. And the contracts for the DOE have to be done in a certain kind of format to limit South Dakota financing.

他們是不同的。它們之所以不同是因為合約結構不同。為了限制南達科他州的融資，能源部的合約必須採用特定格式。

Where we think it'll be more equity financed is up there in North Dakota. And so it's a different kind of a contract. FEG is representative of it. And there's other deals that we've done where we've sold the jet fuel and part of the carbon to somebody else. And we keep the carbon and sell that to some yet again a third party.

我們認為北達科他州的股權融資將會更多。所以這是一種不同類型的合約。其中FEG是代表。我們也進行過其他交易，將航空燃料和部分碳排放出售給其他人。我們保留碳並將其出售給第三方。

So it's pretty darn interesting. We're on the right track. It's about time we figured this out. And part of it is because the DOE is onerous, I mean it's onerous. There's no question. They're very thorough. They're very good. They have a huge success rate with their 97% track record of success. Awesome.

所以這真的非常有趣。我們走在正確的道路上。現在是該解決這個問題的時候了。部分原因是因為能源部的工作很繁重，我是說它很繁重。毫無疑問。他們非常徹底。他們非常好。他們的成功率非常高，高達 97%。驚人的。

But my God, it's tedious and it's got belt braces, suspenders and protections and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And one of those things is how contracts are written.

但是天哪，它太無聊了，而且它有腰帶支架、吊帶和保護裝置等等等等。其中之一就是合約的書寫方式。

Here, we can do -- we have a wider range of latitude of what we can do. And so that makes it -- and that makes more sense. We'll eventually, I think, get that roped into ATJ-60 as well, but we got to get it going first and make it happen.

在這裡，我們可以做——我們有更廣泛的自由度來做我們可以做的事情。這樣就更有意義了。我認為，我們最終也會將其納入 ATJ-60，但我們必須先讓它運作並實現它。

So we don't tie our contracts to one location. We can go make it anywhere and move contracts around. We have the ability to do that. It's just that here, we didn't have to start with the burden constraints.

所以我們不會把合約限制在一個地方。我們可以去任何地方進行生產並轉移合約。我們有能力做到這一點。只是在這裡，我們不必從負擔約束開始。

Okay, got it. Thank you. The second question is how much expansion is theoretically possible at North Dakota side? I know you can get up to 1 million tons for the CPS capacity, but have you done any preliminary work on how much further you could scale up on ATJ if you wanted to go beyond ATJ-30?

好的，明白了。謝謝。第二個問題是，理論上北達科他州的擴張可能性有多高？我知道 CPS 的產能可以達到 100 萬噸，但是如果您想超越 ATJ-30，您是否做過任何初步工作來確定 ATJ 的規模還能擴大多少？

Yeah. So here's how we're thinking about it is that we've had -- people know about the -- people in the industry. So colleague companies know that we're working on the ATJ-30 plans.

是的。因此，我們對此的看法是，我們已經讓人們了解這個行業的人了。因此同事公司知道我們正在製定 ATJ-30 計劃。

And the economies of scale for the ATJ-30 are still pretty good. They're way, way, way better than a smaller plant. So it's already in the flat part of the curve and we've made some optimizations. So the economics are pretty good at compare it -- even comparing it to an ATJ-60.

而且ATJ-30的規模經濟效益仍然相當好。它們比小型植物好得多。所以它已經處於曲線的平坦部分，我們已經做了一些優化。因此，與 ATJ-60 相比，其經濟性相當不錯。

So we see the opportunity to do an ATJ-30, but then do carbon copies of them in other places and other locations in the US and around the world. And remember our, paradigm is we're building these in a factory with garage. And so, that derisks the living heck out of it because everything will be known to work by the time the modules show up on site.

因此，我們看到了製造 ATJ-30 的機會，但隨後在美國和世界其他地方製造它們的複製品。請記住，我們的範例是我們在有車庫的工廠中建造這些東西。因此，這可以最大程度地降低風險，因為當模組到達現場時，一切都將正常運作。

They have to be assembled. And you can do regional contractors to put it together and avoid these lump sum turnkey EPC project financing projects that really just add a lot of cost. So we like it a lot. We would see that the site up there has room to expand ethanol as well. Now that's an important thing because it's actually ethanol that generates more CO2 that we put down a hole.

它們必須被組裝起來。您可以讓區域承包商將其整合在一起，避免這些實際上只會增加大量成本的總價交鑰匙 EPC 專案融資專案。所以我們非常喜歡它。我們發現那裡也有擴大乙醇生產的空間。這是一件很重要的事情，因為實際上乙醇比我們放入洞中產生的二氧化碳更多。

And so that's something we're looking at too. And I got to say, it's pretty darn exciting. I like it a lot. And so you can imagine that we would do this in a series of things.

這也是我們正在關注的事情。我必須說，這真是太令人興奮了。我非常喜歡它。所以你可以想像我們會透過一連串的事情來實現這一點。

We're going to -- I want that ATJ 30 because I think that's the commercially viable plant that we can sell around the US and around the world. We have other opportunities for ATJ-60 that are copied from the one in South Dakota. We have a couple sites that'll play really well. We could expand that ethanol plant up there and then add yet another ATJ-30 up there.

我們要－我想要那座 ATJ 30，因為我認為這是一個具有商業可行性的工廠，我們可以在美國和世界各地銷售它。我們還有其他機會為 ATJ-60 提供服務，這些機會是從南達科他州的 ATJ-60 複製而來的。我們有幾個網站運行得很好。我們可以擴建那裡的乙醇工廠，然後在那裡再增加一台 ATJ-30。

So I think that's more how the business will unfold. And in the meantime, we'll have parallel projects where we've sold the plant to somebody else for the deployment or we've licensed the technology to them.

所以我認為這比較符合業務的進行方式。同時，我們也會進行平行項目，將工廠出售給其他人進行部署，或將技術授權給他們。

One of the things Paul mentioned in the list for property, people forget that we have 100-plus patents or so that cover the supply chain. We will first to do ethanol-to-jet, even though other companies claim to have done so. We have the technologies that work with our partners with Accents. We have a lower-cost technology in the future. Even Accents believes that we can win.

保羅在財產清單中提到的一件事是，人們忘記了我們擁有涵蓋供應鏈的 100 多項專利。我們將首先進行乙醇制航空燃料，儘管其他公司聲稱已經這樣做了。我們擁有與 Accents 合作夥伴合作的技術。我們未來有更低成本的技術。甚至 Accents 也相信我們能夠獲勝。

So people forget that part of it, that intellectual is a key component. We'll use it here along the way too. So it's a very interesting game. I'm so glad and thankful that we're on solid financial footing. It's really good. And I like what I'm seeing coming out of Congress.

所以人們忘記了知識是關鍵因素。我們也會在這裡使用它。所以這是一場非常有趣的比賽。我很高興也很感激我們的財務基礎穩固。真的很好。我對國會所採取的措施感到滿意。

Thank you. This concludes the question-and-answer session. I would now like to turn it back to Pat Gruber for closing remarks.

謝謝。問答環節到此結束。現在我想請派特·格魯伯作最後發言。

I want to thank you all for listening in on our call. This has been a very exciting quarter for us. I think next one is even going to be better. And is that my gosh, you know, we're putting -- we're getting revenue up. We're going to get EBITDA contributing. We're offsetting the costs. We're going to continue to make progress through the year.

我想感謝大家收聽我們的電話會議。對我們來說這是一個非常令人興奮的季度。我認為下一個會更好。天哪，你知道，我們正在增加收入。我們將獲得 EBITDA 貢獻。我們正在抵銷成本。我們將在今年繼續取得進步。

It's quite a transformational year, actually. And as I just got through saying, we have well-developed projects and technologies. These are ready for deployment.

事實上，這是相當轉型的一年。正如我剛才所說，我們擁有完善的專案和技術。這些已準備好部署。

And there's many people around the world interested. We got to go make that happen. And it doesn't come at a big cost to us anymore. We've already paid the upfront fees to go and get that done. All the learning curve stuff, we've pretty much done it. It's now it's all about deploying things.

世界各地有許多人對此感興趣。我們必須去實現這一點。而且它不再會為我們帶來巨大的成本。我們已經支付了預付費用來完成這項工作。所有學習曲線的東西，我們基本上都已經完成了。現在一切都與部署有關。

And you know what? We've got a balance sheet that we can live on along with the income that we expect going forward. It's a pretty exciting time for Gevo. Best that -- sorry, it's the best that I think I've ever seen here, the best opportunity. Thank you all for joining us. Bye-bye.

你知道嗎？我們有一份可以維持生計的資產負債表以及我們預期的未來收入。對於 Gevo 來說，這是一個非常令人興奮的時刻。最好的——抱歉，我認為這是我在這裡見過的最好的，最好的機會。感謝大家的參與。再見。

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。