Gevo Inc (GEVO) 2023 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Gevo, Inc. Q3 2023 Earnings Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) Please be advised that today's conference call is being recorded.

美好的一天，感謝您的支持。歡迎參加 Gevo, Inc. 2023 年第三季財報電話會議。 （操作員說明）請注意，今天的電話會議正在錄音。

I would now like to turn the conference over to your speaker for today, Dr. Eric Frey, Vice President of Finance and Strategy. You may go ahead.

現在我想將會議交給今天的發言者，財務與策略副總裁 Eric Frey 博士。你可以繼續。

Good afternoon, everyone. This is Eric Frey, Vice President of Finance and Strategy. I’ am responsible for Investor Relations here at Gevo as well. Thanks for joining us to discuss Gevo's third quarter results for the period ended September 30, 2023. I would like to start by introducing today’s participants from the company. With us today are Dr. Patrick Gruber, Gevo’'s Chief Executive Officer; and Lynn Smull, Gevo’'s Chief Financial Officer. Earlier today we issued a press release that outlines the topics we plan to discuss. A copy of this press release is available at our website at www.gevo.com. Please be advised that our remarks today, including answers to your questions, contain forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act.

大家下午好。我是 Eric Frey，財務與策略副總裁。我還負責 Gevo 的投資者關係。感謝您與我們一起討論 Gevo 截至 2023 年 9 月 30 日的第三季業績。我想先介紹一下今天該公司的參與者。今天與我們在一起的有 Gevo 首席執行官帕特里克·格魯伯 (Patrick Gruber) 博士；以及 Gevo 財務長 Lynn Smull。今天早些時候，我們發布了一份新聞稿，概述了我們計劃討論的主題。本新聞稿的副本可在我們的網站 www.gevo.com 上取得。請注意，我們今天的言論，包括對您問題的回答，包含《私人證券訴訟改革法案》含義內的前瞻性陳述。

These forward-looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to be materially different from those currently anticipated. Those statements include projections about the timing, development, engineering, financing, and construction of our sustainable aviation fuel projects, our recently executed agreements, our renewable natural gas project, and other activities described in our filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission which are incorporated by reference. We disclaim any obligation to update these forward-looking statements. In addition, we may provide certain non-GAAP financial information on this call.

這些前瞻性陳述存在風險和不確定性，可能導致實際結果與目前預期有重大差異。這些聲明包括對我們可持續航空燃料項目的時間表、開發、工程、融資和建設的預測、我們最近執行的協議、我們的可再生天然氣項目以及我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中描述的其他活動。引用。我們不承擔更新這些前瞻性陳述的義務。此外，我們可能會在本次電話會議上提供某些非公認會計準則財務資訊。

The relevant definitions and GAAP reconciliations may be found in our earnings release, which can be found on our website at www.gevo.com in the Investor Relations section.

相關定義和 GAAP 調節可在我們的收益報告中找到，該報告可在我們網站 www.gevo.com 的投資者關係部分找到。

Following the prepared remarks, we'll open the call for questions. I would like to remind everyone that this conference call is open to the media, and we are providing a simultaneous webcast to the public. A replay will be available via the company's investor relations page. I'd now like to turn the call over to the CEO of Gevo, Dr. Patrick Gruber. Pat?

在準備好的發言之後，我們將開始提問。我想提醒大家，這次電話會議是對媒體開放的，我們向公眾提供同步網路直播。重播將透過公司的投資者關係頁面提供。現在我想將電話轉給 Gevo 執行長 Patrick Gruber 博士。拍？

Thanks, Eric. Good afternoon, everyone, and thanks for joining us on our call. We are filing our 10-Q today and we ask that you refer to it for more detailed information after this call. On our last earnings call I explained what we have been investing in, what it means, how we think about further investments, our use of capital, and progress against milestones. We remain focused on that execution plan.

謝謝，埃里克。大家下午好，感謝您加入我們的電話會議。我們今天正在提交 10-Q，請您在本次電話會議後參考它以獲取更多詳細資訊。在我們上次的財報電話會議上，我解釋了我們一直在投資的內容、它的含義、我們如何考慮進一步的投資、我們對資本的使用以及里程碑的進展。我們仍然關注該執行計劃。

Today, I would like to focus on recent events in the third quarter and provide an update on how things are progressing. First, our Net-Zero 1 Alcohol-to-Jet SAF plant is three months into the formal due diligence and term sheet negotiation phase for a U.S. Department of Energy loan guarantee. We said in August that it would take up to 12 months to complete the process, and based upon the positive progress we have made this quarter, we believe we are on track.

今天，我想專注於第三季的最新事件，並提供有關事情進展的最新資訊。首先，我們的淨零 1 酒精噴射 SAF 工廠已進入美國能源部貸款擔保的正式盡職調查和條款表談判階段三個月。我們在 8 月表示，完成該過程最多需要 12 個月，基於本季的積極進展，我們相信我們正在步入正軌。

Second, our dairy manure RNG business completed its expansion to 400,000 million BTUs per year of capacity. RNG is generating positive standalone adjusted EBITDA, this is in spite of the fact that California LCFS prices are low in the $70 to $80 per metric ton range versus around $200 per metric ton a couple of years ago. It is also in spite of the fact that we are operating under our temporary LCFS pathway of negative 150 carbon intensity. So we expect our RNG cash flows to improve next year when we get our anticipated permanent pathway of a minus 350 carbon intensity. We also expect RNG cash flows to improve as we ramp up volumes and de-bottleneck the plant.

其次，我們的乳牛糞便RNG業務完成了產能擴張至每年4000億BTU。儘管加州 LCFS 價格低至每噸 70 至 80 美元，而幾年前為每噸 200 美元左右，但 RNG 正在產生正的獨立調整後 EBITDA。儘管事實上我們正在按照負 150 碳強度的臨時 LCFS 路徑運作。因此，我們預計明年當我們實現預期的負 350 碳強度的永久路徑時，我們的 RNG 現金流將會改善。我們也預計，隨著產量的增加和工廠的瓶頸消除，RNG 的現金流將會改善。

Third, let’s talk about Verity Carbon Solutions. Last quarter we entered into an agreement with our third ethanol producer customer, bringing our total customer capacity to over 300 million gallons per year of ethanol production. That's about 2% of the entire U.S. ethanol market. That's good work considering our first customer agreement was announced in March, and so that’'s lots of progress that the Verity team has made. Verity is Gevo’'s measure, report, verify, or MRV business for carbon tracking. This also falls under the industry nomenclature of software as a service, or SaaS. This is a rapidly growing capital light business of ours where we see a lot of potential on its own in addition to being strategically complementary to our Net-Zero Alcohol-to-Jet projects.

第三，我們來談談 Verity Carbon Solutions。上季度，我們與第三家乙醇生產商客戶簽訂了一項協議，使我們的客戶總產能達到每年超過 3 億加侖的乙醇產量。這約佔整個美國乙醇市場的 2%。考慮到我們的第一份客戶協議是在三月宣布的，這是一項出色的工作，因此 Verity 團隊已經取得了許多進展。 Verity 是 Gevo 的碳追蹤測量、報告、驗證或 MRV 業務。這也屬於軟體即服務（SaaS）的行業術語。這是我們快速成長的輕資本業務，除了與我們的淨零酒精噴射專案策略互補之外，我們還看到了自身的巨大潛力。

Finally, we are pleased to announce some key new members of our team last quarter, Dr. Angelo Amorelli was appointed to our board of directors. Angelo recently retired from BP, where he held innovation roles for 35 years, focused on development of clean fuels of all types. He's a Cambridge University graduate and holds a PhD in chemistry. He's a fellow of the Royal Society of Chemistry. He's actually an expert in all types of renewable businesses and technologies. He's a great addition to our board. We're pleased to have him. Andy Shafer joined us as our Chief Marketing Customer and Brand Officer. Andy previously worked as leader in the bio-based polymers company now known as NatureWorks.

最後，我們很高興地宣布上季度我們團隊的一些重要新成員，Angelo Amorelli 博士被任命為我們的董事會成員。 Angelo 最近從 BP 退休，他在 BP 擔任了 35 年的創新職務，專注於開發各種類型的清潔燃料。他畢業於劍橋大學，並擁有化學博士學位。他是英國皇家化學學會的會員。他實際上是所有類型的可再生能源業務和技術的專家。他是我們董事會的重要補充。我們很高興有他。安迪謝弗 (Andy Shafer) 加入我們，擔任首席行銷客戶兼品牌長。安迪先前曾擔任生物基聚合物公司（現稱為 NatureWorks）的領導者。

A number of us here at Gevo worked with Andy when we invented polylactic acid or PLA, which used fermentation technology and chemistry to produce sustainable bio-based substitute to fossil-based products from -- and we'd track it all the way from the farm to the end customer. It’s very much like what we were doing today at Gevo, except for Gevo course, we're doing sustainable aviation fuel. It's a pleasure to have Andy with us again. He gets it. He knows what the problem is. He knows how to work with the customers. Now I'll pass it off to Lynn to talk through the operations and the numbers.

當我們發明聚乳酸或 PLA 時，Gevo 的許多人與 Andy 合作，聚乳酸使用發酵技術和化學來生產化石產品的可持續生物基替代品——我們將從農場到最終客戶。這與我們今天在 Gevo 所做的非常相似，除了 Gevo 課程之外，我們正在生產永續航空燃料。很高興安迪再次與我們在一起。他明白了。他知道問題是什麼。他知道如何與客戶合作。現在我將把它交給林恩來討論操作和數字。

Thanks, Pat. Gevo's Q3 combined revenue and interest income was $9.8 million, with the interest income benefiting from higher interest rates. Our corporate spend that is SG&A was $6.4 million for the quarter, excluding noncash stock-based compensation of $4.1 million, which is a $0.3 million decrease from Q2 as a result of our cost control efforts.

謝謝，帕特。 Gevo 第三季的營收和利息收入合計為 980 萬美元，利息收入受益於較高的利率。本季我們的企業支出（SG&A）為 640 萬美元，不包括 410 萬美元的非現金股票薪酬，由於我們的成本控制努力，這比第二季度減少了 30 萬美元。

Debt related to the Northwest Iowa RNG project was $67.8 million, consisting of $68.2 million face value less unamortized $0.4 million premium and issuance costs.

與西北愛荷華州 RNG 計畫相關的債務為 6,780 萬美元，其中面額 6,820 萬美元減去未攤銷的 40 萬美元溢價和發行成本。

We ended the third quarter of 2023 with a strong liquidity position of $401.3 million in cash, restricted cash and other liquid investments. The restricted cash portion is associated with our Northwest Iowa RNG bonds and certain collateral related to the development of Net-Zero 1 and totaled $77.8 million.

截至 2023 年第三季末，我們的現金、限制性現金和其他流動投資擁有 4.013 億美元的強勁流動性部位。受限制的現金部分與我們的西北愛荷華州 RNG 債券以及與 Net-Zero 1 開發相關的某些抵押品有關，總計 7780 萬美元。

During the third quarter of 2023, we invested and capitalized $12 million cash and capital projects comprised of $8.7 million into Net-Zero 1, $1.7 million into the expansion of our Northwest Iowa RNG project, $1.4 million into other net zero projects and $0.2 million into our hydrocarbon skid. We also invested $19.9 million of capital with a [0.6] related [BIE] to allow the purchase of wind and hydrogen equipment to support Net-Zero 1.

2023 年第三季度，我們投資並資本化了1200 萬美元的現金和資本項目，其中870 萬美元用於Net-Zero 1，170 萬美元用於西北愛荷華州RNG 項目的擴建，140 萬美元用於其他淨零項目，20 萬美元用於Net-Zero 1 項目。我們的碳氫化合物撬裝。我們也向 [0.6] 相關的 [BIE] 投資了 1,990 萬美元資本，以允許購買風能和氫能設備來支援 Net-Zero 1。

On Net-Zero 1, we are working to derisk the project to nonrecourse standards to obtain the DOE loan guarantee and attract the third-party equity capital necessary to finance the construction budget and all the project finance elements such as interest during construction, various reserves and transaction costs. The infrastructure and energy transition private equity market as well as certain strategic investors are reacting well to the process of delivering an investment package that is financeable. The equity process will ramp up next year from the current information sharing and preliminary diligence to full due diligence and negotiations, which we expect will occur in parallel with closing in on the DOE loan guarantee terms.

在淨零1 專案上，我們正​​在努力將專案風險降低到無追索權標準，以獲得能源部貸款擔保，並吸引為建設預算和所有專案融資要素（例如建設期間的利息、各種準備金）提供資金所需的第三方股權資本和交易成本。基礎設施和能源轉型私募股權市場以及某些策略投資者對提供可融資投資方案的過程反應良好。明年的股權流程將從目前的資訊共享和初步調查升級到全面的盡職調查和談判，我們預計這將與能源部貸款擔保條款的臨近同時進行。

Our dairy RNG project in Northwest Iowa has been injecting in the pipeline since June of 2022. During Q3 2023, we sold 81,271 million BTU of RNG, revenue of $4.5 million for the quarter included RNG sales of $0.2 million and $4.3 million net proceeds from the sale of environmental attributes. During the quarter, we also completed our previously announced expansion to 400,000 MMBtu per annum of capacity. And I'm pleased to tell you that we have proven that annualized run rate. We are now working through optimization of the whole system, and we expect the operational improvements we're making will further increase production, increased reliability, and reduced O&M cost.

我們位於愛荷華州西北部的乳製品RNG 專案自2022 年6 月以來一直在籌備中。2023 年第三季度，我們銷售了812.71 億BTU 的RNG，該季度收入為450 萬美元，包括20 萬美元的RNG 銷售額和430 萬美元的淨收益出售環境屬性。在本季度，我們也完成了先前宣布的產能擴張至每年 400,000 MMBtu。我很高興地告訴您，我們已經證明了年化運行率。我們現在正在對整個系統進行最佳化，我們預計我們所做的營運改進將進一步提高產量、提高可靠性並降低營運和維護成本。

Finally, I'd like to emphasize the comment from the last earnings call. We see a pathway to positive cash flow for the company. This is independent from and in addition to Net-Zero 1 being financed and operating. This is based on our view of the growth of our RNG business and our Verity business, our cost trimming and our flexibility on the pace of discretionary growth-related spending. It is too soon to provide exact guidance and timing, but we look forward to doing so when we have our permanent carbon intensity pathway at Northwest Iowa RNG and when we have more information around Verity.

最後，我想強調上次財報電話會議的評論。我們看到了公司實現正現金流的途徑。這獨立於並補充 Net-Zero 1 的融資和營運。這是基於我們對 RNG 業務和 Verity 業務成長的看法、我們的成本削減以及我們對可自由支配成長相關支出步伐的靈活性。現在提供準確的指導和時間還為時過早，但我們期待在愛荷華州西北 RNG 擁有永久碳強度路徑以及獲得有關 Verity 的更多資訊時這樣做。

Now I'll turn the call back over to Pat.

現在我將把電話轉回給帕特。

Thanks, Lynn. Let me wrap up our prepared remarks by saying, even though it feels slow, while we're waiting for the IRA rules to be clarified, we are not sitting idle. We're making progress, we're moving ahead. We're laser focused on being good stewards of our capital. I believe Gevo was undervalued given our balance sheet and growth potential. It's frustrating. However, we know we are living through a once-in-a-generation transition of our entire economy towards a focus on carbon abatement and Gevo is one of the companies on the forefront of that energy transition. For this reason, we have been seeing the moment to deploy well placed capital into the Net-Zero plant design for ATJ and ethanol, which Gevo owns and of course, we're developing site locations because we plan on growing further plans. We are also executing complementary strategies that will create value for us long term, such as Verity and RNG and ethanol-to-olefins or ETO which not only support our Net-Zero ATJ strategy, but have potential to generate maximum value for shareholders, separate than SAF opportunities.

謝謝，林恩。讓我在結束我們準備好的發言時說，儘管感覺很慢，但在我們等待愛爾蘭共和軍規則得到澄清的同時，我們並沒有閒著。我們正在進步，我們正在前進。我們專注於成為我們資本的好管家。考慮到我們的資產負債表和成長潛力，我認為 Gevo 的價值被低估了。真令人沮喪。然而，我們知道，我們整個經濟正在經歷一代人一次的轉型，重點關注碳減排，而 Gevo 是處於能源轉型前沿的公司之一。出於這個原因，我們一直在考慮將充足的資金部署到 Gevo 擁有的 ATJ 和乙醇淨零工廠設計中，當然，我們正在開發廠址，因為我們計劃制定進一步的計劃。我們也正在執行將為我們長期創造價值的互補策略，例如 Verity 和 RNG 以及乙醇制烯烴或 ETO，這些策略不僅支持我們的淨零 ATJ 策略，而且有潛力為股東創造最大價值，單獨比SAF 的機會。

As Lynn alluded to, we recognize the importance of being good stewards of our cash and getting to positive cash flow as a company. We can do more than one thing at a time. So even as we are pushing ahead on Net-Zero 1, which we all believe will unlock substantial long-term value for us, we are also pushing the development opportunities, RNG and Verity, which we expect would get us to positive cash long before N-Z1 comes into operation. And of course, that should unlock value as well.

正如林恩所提到的，我們認識到作為一家公司，做好現金管家和獲得正現金流的重要性。我們一次可以做不只一件事。因此，即使我們正在推進Net-Zero 1（我們都相信這將為我們帶來巨大的長期價值），我們也在推動RNG 和Verity 的發展機會，我們預計這將使我們早在很久之前就獲得正現金。N-Z1 投入運作。當然，這也應該釋放價值。

Let's open it up for questions. Operator?

讓我們打開它來提問。操作員？

(Operator Instructions) The first question for today will be coming from Derrick Whitfield of Stifel.

（操作員說明）今天的第一個問題將來自 Stifel 的 Derrick Whitfield。

Congrats on your progress with the Northwest Iowa RNG project. Starting on SAF more broadly. Given the benefit of your completed FEED study and the reset we've experienced in rent pricing, could you share your thoughts on the economics of bringing an SAF project to market in the current environment? I know that Net-Zero 1 will be focused on SAF, and that's better than RNG. But again, I'd love your thoughts on that more broadly.

恭喜您在愛荷華州西北部 RNG 專案中取得的進展。從更廣泛的 SAF 開始。鑑於您完成的 FEED 研究的好處以及我們在租金定價方面經歷的重置，您能否分享一下您對在當前環境下將 SAF 項目推向市場的經濟效益的看法？我知道Net-Zero 1將專注於SAF，這比RNG更好。但同樣，我希望您能更廣泛地了解您對此的想法。

Yes. Well, the big question around the economics of SAF was all around the ruling for the IRA bill under Section 40B and 45Z, and those rules aren't out yet because that's the part that actually will describe how it is that the IRS is supposed to take into account the carbon reductions from a CI score of 50 and less. And remember, it's $0.03 per CI point per gallon. So we're waiting to see with that. Everything else is transient and it will go up and down. The RINs will go up and down and stuff. But we got to see what that looks like and it's been overdue almost a year already. And so we're waiting to see what happens, and then we'll be able to adjust from there.

是的。好吧，圍繞 SAF 經濟學的一個大問題是圍繞第 40B 和 45Z 條對 IRA 法案的裁決，而這些規則尚未出台，因為這部分實際上將描述 IRS 應該如何考慮CI 分數為50 及以下的碳減排氣量。請記住，每加侖每 CI 點的價格為 0.03 美元。所以我們正在拭目以待。其他一切都是短暫的，會起起落落。 RIN 會上下波動等等。但我們必須看看它是什麼樣子，而且已經晚了將近一年了。所以我們正在等著看會發生什麼，然後我們就能夠從那裡進行調整。

The thing that's interesting about SAF is that it is a full drop in. It's proven work. Airlines need it. And so we believe we have the lowest cost route to make SAF. We in it with -- particularly when you take in account the CI score. So we know there's a market here for our stuff. We just got to be able to finalize pricing, we'll be able to do that once we see that IRA bill rule. So it's not about RINs at all. It's about the IRA bill.

SAF 的有趣之處在於它是一個完全的插入式工具。它已經被證明是可行的。航空公司需要它。因此，我們相信我們擁有製造 SAF 成本最低的路線。我們參與其中——特別是當你考慮到 CI 分數時。所以我們知道我們的產品在這裡有市場。我們只需能夠最終確定定價，一旦我們看到 IRA 法案規則，我們就能做到這一點。所以這根本與 RIN 無關。這是關於愛爾蘭共和軍法案的。

And Pat, maybe just stay on that point because when you think about the IRA bill and the importance of decarbonization via CCUS, that should inherently make a greenfield project in some ways, more economic than on brownfield. Is that a fair assessment?

帕特，也許就停留在這一點上，因為當你想到 IRA 法案和通過 CCUS 脫碳的重要性時，這本質上應該使綠地項目在某些方面比棕地項目更經濟。這是一個公平的評價嗎？

It is. So the way to think of it is that carbon capturing -- what we're talking about is carbon capturing the CO2 directly off the fermentation of the alcohol. That's worth about 30 CI points. 30 CI points is quite a lot there. Now for us in our Net-Zero 1 design, we would hope you will take full advantage of that. And it's very helpful, throw money. And there's -- it's a competitive marketplace in the states. So a lot of states are saying, we're for sure going to have CCS. And there's lots of discussion in other states as to what should happen and how should it happen? But CCS is going to be important in the long-run game, and it matters economically.

這是。因此，我們可以考慮碳捕獲——我們所說的是碳捕獲直接從酒精發酵中產生的二氧化碳。這大約相當於 30 CI 分。 30個CI點已經相當多了。現在，對於我們的 Net-Zero 1 設計，我們希望您能夠充分利用這一點。而且很有幫助，丟錢。在美國，這是一個競爭激烈的市場。所以很多州都在說，我們一定會擁有 CCS。其他州也有很多關於應該發生什麼以及如何發生的討論？但從長遠來看，CCS 非常重要，而且在經濟上也很重要。

Now here's the thing about ethanol plants. If you have an existing ethanol plant, you don't have access to CCS, you have 0 chance, I believe, producing a jet fuel SAF with a low CI score. The reason for that is most ethanol plants are probably in the, I don't know, 70 CI score range, so knocking off 30 points is helpful, but it doesn't get you over the hump of what it takes to make the competitive SAF. So you have to do something about decarbonized energy. Well, of course, that's what we did in this approach we took up a Net-Zero 1 where we arranged the wind, it's why you see us doing the green hydrogen too, and doing biogas. So we have multiple levers, multiple shots on goal. And that's how we would approach a brownfield plant as well. And so when we look at several of those opportunities that we see, and we would look at them for their full ability to be decarbonized, of which CCS is a part.

現在是關於乙醇工廠的事。如果您現有乙醇工廠，則無法使用 CCS，我相信您生產 CI 分數較低的噴射燃料 SAF 的機會為零。原因是大多數乙醇工廠可能都在（我不知道）70 CI 分數範圍內，因此降低 30 分是有幫助的，但這並不能幫助您克服提高競爭力所需的困難新加坡武裝部隊。所以你必須對脫碳能源採取一些措施。嗯，當然，這就是我們在這種方法中所做的，我們採用了 Net-Zero 1，在那裡我們安排了風，這就是為什麼你看到我們也在做綠氫和沼氣。所以我們有多個槓桿，多次射門。這也是我們處理棕地工廠的方式。因此，當我們審視我們看到的幾個機會時，我們會審視它們的全部脫碳能力，CCS 就是其中的一部分。

And maybe, staying on, again, part of the question, but maybe shifting that over to Verity. When you think about the outlook for ethanol to jet. What's that near and long-term value proposition look like for Verity?

也許，再次保留問題的一部分，但也許將其轉移到Verity。當您考慮乙醇噴射的前景時。 Verity 的近期和長期價值主張是什麼樣的？

Well, it's interestingly several. And the one way to think of Verity is the proof and really super documented proof that in fact there really was a carbon abatement and it tracks it all the way across the whole of the business system all the way from capturing carbon in a field, in a farm, through the production facilities all the way out to (inaudible) an airplane, actually all the way out to the seat at an airplane. So someone who's buying that seat could in theory when the product is fully implemented you could know what it is that the exact carbon abatement pathway throughout. That's the beauty of this technology. It uses blockchain or DLT technology. We've already got it working in the field and production facilities. So it's pretty darn interesting for the whole SAF chain. Think of it as a really super sustainability certificate that's bulletproofed. And that's valuable. That's going to be valuable and key because that's the proof that in fact you got what you paid for.

嗯，有趣的是有幾個。思考 Verity 的一種方式是證明，並且是真正有記錄的證明，事實上確實存在碳減排，並且它在整個業務系統中一直跟踪它，從在一個領域捕獲碳，一個農場，通過生產設施一直到（聽不清楚）飛機，實際上一直到飛機的座位。因此，理論上，購買該座椅的人可以在該產品完全實施後知道整個過程中確切的碳減排途徑是什麼。這就是這項技術的美妙之處。它使用區塊鏈或DLT技術。我們已經讓它在現場和生產設施中發揮作用。所以這對於整個 SAF 鏈來說非常有趣。可以將其視為真正的防彈超級永續發展證書。這很有價值。這將是有價值和關鍵的，因為這證明你確實得到了你所付出的代價。

Now when it comes to ethanol, we also -- we have been working with these ethanol plants, one of the public ones we announced was SIRE, but we've done 2 others, is that we're working on verifying their data, taking their process instrumentation data, transforming it into the data that's used for calculating CI scores so that they can actually see what's going on in their plant. That's all valuable because then we can use it to lower CI score of ethanol and measure it and monitor it. The team is working now to figure out how to monetize that and making good progress.

現在說到乙醇，我們也 - 我們一直在與這些乙醇工廠合作，我們宣布的公開工廠之一是 SIRE，但我們已經做了另外兩個工廠，我們正在努力驗證他們的數據，採取他們的流程儀表數據，將其轉換為用於計算CI 分數的數據，以便他們可以實際看到工廠中發生的情況。這一切都很有價值，因為我們可以用它來降低乙醇的 CI 分數並對其進行測量和監測。該團隊現在正在研究如何將其貨幣化並取得良好進展。

There's another part of this, which is around the field attributes. We have a $30 million grant from the USDA, and that is all about documenting field. Fields, not farms, not regions, fields. And we actually have a tool that's working with farmers, out in the field, what's been operational development and operation for 3 years, and we just got it on to the handheld form. And farmers can tell field-by-field, what's different. That's a huge deal because that allows them to have the information available to them to say make better, different and, hopefully, better decisions about how to improve the sustainability on their farm. It's in those avenues that we see the potential. And there'll be multiple ways of making money from it. Some of it would be providing a service, some of it would be profit share, some of it might be at totalization of carbon or something like that in the future.

還有另一部分，與欄位屬性相關。我們從美國農業部獲得了 3000 萬美元的撥款，全部用於記錄領域。田野，不是農場，不是地區，是田野。實際上，我們有一個與農民一起在田間工作的工具，已經進行了三年的營運開發和運營，我們剛剛將其轉變為手持形式。農民可以逐個田地分辨出有什麼不同。這是一件大事，因為這使他們能夠獲得可用的信息，從而就如何提高農場的可持續性做出更好、不同、並且有望更好的決策。正是在這些途徑中，我們看到了潛力。並且會有多種賺錢方式。其中一些是提供服務，一些是利潤分成，一些可能是未來的碳總量或類似的東西。

And it's a big -- it's a huge potential market, the potential market, we're told. We just had McKinsey in here doing the study, and it's in the billions.

我們被告知，這是一個很大的潛在市場，一個巨大的潛在市場。我們剛剛請麥肯錫在這裡進行了這項研究，規模達數十億美元。

So we got to a little more work on this. I got to see the exact business plan. So Lynn was referring to the guidance of what should happen and when should it happen. The team, they're doing a good job. This is a huge project and it's a software and data collection field work, a bunch of things. It's definitely not heavy duty capital, but the market potential for being told is really big. So that we like that a lot.

所以我們需要在這方面做更多的工作。我必須看到確切的商業計劃。所以林恩指的是應該發生什麼事以及何時發生的指導。團隊，他們做得很好。這是一個巨大的項目，涉及軟體和數據收集現場工作，等等。這絕對不是重磅資本，但被告知的市場潛力確實很大。所以我們非常喜歡這樣。

Our next question will be coming from Sameer Joshi of H.C. Wainwright.

我們的下一個問題將來自 H.C. 的 Sameer Joshi。溫賴特。

So on the DOE loan process, I know it seems to be on track. But will you be providing any like millstones or any deliverables that happened during the quarter? How should we look at it in terms of tracking it?

因此，就能源部的貸款流程而言，我知道它似乎正在步入正軌。但是您會提供本季發生的類似磨石或任何可交付成果嗎？我們該如何看待它的追蹤呢？

No, we won't. We don't plan on it. The thing that we're watching for is getting to the close or the -- I guess there's a final notice that they're going to give you the money. That will take a while to get to that. But doing the little details, I don't want to know. There's just too many things. They have to go do their diligence. They have their own consultants. They're on their time line. They control the time lines. We control nothing. All we do is help and provide information and input. So I can't see any kind of a win that's constructive for shareholders here because they're continuing to make progress, and we'll report on it. That's the very best thing.

不，我們不會。我們不打算這麼做。我們正在關注的事情是接近結束或--我想有一個最後的通知，他們會給你錢。這需要一段時間才能實現。但做一些小細節，我不想知道。事情太多了。他們必須盡職盡責。他們有自己的顧問。他們在自己的時間線上。他們控制著時間軸。我們什麼都控制不了。我們所做的只是提供幫助、提供資訊和意見。因此，我看不到任何對股東有建設性的勝利，因為他們正在繼續取得進展，我們將對此進行報告。這是最好的事情。

And so part of the reason for that question is how will the equity partners or strategic partners that you are working with now track that? Are you sharing information? Will you be sharing information with those kind of partners?

因此，這個問題的部分原因是，與您合作的股權合作夥伴或策略夥伴將如何追蹤這種情況？你們在分享資訊嗎？您會與此類合作夥伴分享資訊嗎？

We are and have been, yes. There's quite a long queue of them and stay in touch with us. And so the big variables that we have here are the same as we've talked about before, everyone wants to know what the 45Z is going to say. You know what, any number is better than no number because then we could get on with figuring out the margin and what's going on and what the gaps are and how to fill the gaps. So that's just, we got a have at.

我們現在和過去都是，是的。他們排了很長的隊，請與我們保持聯繫。所以我們這裡的大變數和我們之前討論過的一樣，每個人都想知道 45Z 會說什麼。你知道嗎，任何數字都比沒有數字好，因為這樣我們就可以繼續弄清楚利潤、正在發生的事情、差距是什麼以及如何填補差距。就這樣，我們有機會了。

And then the DOE, the DOE program, our project is solid. We've done more engineering. We have never in my life in mining the products I've ever been involved with. My guys have ever been involved but have we done this much engineering on a project. And this is partly because we're in inflationary environments. We're always having to update stuff. But it's like never have we done this much engineering. And so it's as derisked as we can possibly make it on every front you can think of. And so we'll plug through it and get it done.

然後能源部，能源部計劃，我們的專案是可靠的。我們做了更多的工程設計。在我的一生中，我們從未開採過我曾經參與過的產品。我的伙伴們曾經參與過，但我們在一個專案上做過這麼多工程嗎？這部分是因為我們處於通貨膨脹環境。我們總是需要更新東西。但這就像我們從來沒有做過這麼多工程一樣。因此，我們在您能想到的各個方面都盡可能地降低了風險。所以我們將插入它並完成它。

Understood. On the ETO, the ethanol-to-olefins, what is the development work that is going on? Like is there -- like what exactly is happening on that front?

明白了。 ETO（乙醇制烯烴）的開發工作正在進行中嗎？就像那裡——就像那方面到底發生了什麼事？

Sure. So we've licensed the technology to LG, and they're a partner with us and helping to develop it and they're particular interest, they want to make propane for polypropylene. That's a plastic that goes all the way from diapers to car bumpers and consumer goods and the whole bit, right? And the proposition would be a massively negative polypropylene and people are interested in chemicals. And so that would be pretty cool. No one has ever seen a polypropylene with this kind of negative carbon values. So it's what's interesting about it. We have to go through the discovery of how much people will pay and all that kind of stuff. But they're a great partner.

當然。因此，我們已將該技術授權給 LG，他們是我們的合作夥伴，幫助開發該技術，他們特別感興趣，他們想為聚丙烯生產丙烷。這種塑膠可以用於從尿佈到汽車保險桿和消費品等所有領域，對嗎？這個提議將是一種巨大的負面聚丙烯，人們對化學物質感興趣。所以那會很酷。沒有人見過具有這種負碳值的聚丙烯。這就是它的有趣之處。我們必須了解人們願意支付多少錢以及諸如此類的事情。但他們是很棒的合作夥伴。

They're doing a lot of work on doing development right now. I was Korea here with Paul Bloom recently. And -- you know what -- these guys are making great progress there. We're good at the catalysts and things. And of course, those proprietary catalysts are really important, and this is stuff that we have our patents filed on. So it's really good.

他們現在正在做大量的開發工作。我最近和保羅·布魯姆一起來到韓國。而且——你知道嗎——這些人在那裡取得了巨大的進步。我們擅長催化劑之類的事情。當然，這些專有催化劑非常重要，我們已經為此申請了專利。所以這真的很好。

And then also, that technology, we believe, cuts out large quantities of capital from making jet fuel from ethanol. And it also cuts operating cost. Now it won't be ready in time for Net-Zero 1. So we're going to go ahead with Net-Zero 1 anyway. Maybe it's ready for Net Zero 2. I don't know. We'll see. We have to go through the work and find out what it is we don't know, yet. We're scaling it up. So to answer your question directly, the next stage is to get those catalysts scaled up. That's part of it and then scale up the process itself and we'll be doing that over the next 6 months, 8 months, something like that. No doubt, we're running to something we don't know yet. And then we'll have to overcome that. But it's looking pretty good. And we're also bringing in other partners to help develop it and get it implemented fast because the potential is huge.

此外，我們相信，這項技術可以節省大量以乙醇製造航空燃料的資金。而且它還降低了營運成本。現在它無法及時為 Net-Zero 1 做好準備。所以無論如何我們都會繼續 Net-Zero 1。也許它已經為《淨零2》做好準備了。我不知道。我們拭目以待。我們必須完成這項工作並找出我們尚不知道的內容。我們正在擴大規模。因此，為了直接回答你的問題，下一階段就是擴大這些催化劑的規模。這是其中的一部分，然後擴大流程本身，我們將在接下來的 6 個月、8 個月之內這樣做。毫無疑問，我們正在走向一些我們還不知道的事情。然後我們必須克服這個問題。但看起來還不錯。我們還引入其他合作夥伴來幫助開發它並快速實施，因為潛力巨大。

Got it. And one last one, and this is a clarification. The 100,000 MMBtu per quarter, is that the capacity or the actual production that will be achieved by the year-end? Just wanted to make sure.

知道了。最後一個，這是一個澄清。每季100,000 MMBtu，是產能還是年底將達到的實際產量？只是想確定一下。

Well, they've already demonstrated for running through several weeks at that run rate. So the system is capable of it. Now there's other things we're looking at to see whether bottleneck and equipment and whatever needs to be adjusted. So we're doing some of that. So I think I would expect that like, I don't know, probably winter is never easy to run one of these plants. But let's say, next year, I'd expect to be more of the run rate of 100,000 million BTUs.

嗯，他們已經展示了以這種運行速度運行幾週的情況。所以這個系統是有能力的。現在我們正在研究其他事情，看看是否有瓶頸和設備以及是否需要調整。所以我們正在做一些這樣的事情。所以我想我會期望，我不知道，可能冬天運行這些工廠從來都不是一件容易的事。但假設明年，我預計運行率將達到 1000 億 BTU。

We should hit our targets. This year, we'll hit our targets for what we had projected at whatever it was, above 300,000 million BTUs. We'll accomplish that.

我們應該達到我們的目標。今年，我們將實現我們的預期目標，超過 3000 億 BTU。我們會做到這一點。

Yes and it may be that there's a hiccup there was like -- if a freeze gets us or something, that can happen and that might dig it, but we'll be in there. We'll be right in there.

是的，可能會出現一些問題，例如——如果冰凍影響到我們或發生什麼事情，這可能會發生，這可能會導致問題，但我們會在那裡。我們馬上就到那裡。

(Operator Instructions) Our next question is coming from Shawn Severson of Water Tower Research.

（操作員說明）我們的下一個問題來自 Water Tower Research 的 Shawn Severson。

Pat, I wanted to go back to Verity for a moment and try to understand is there another -- is there any sort of the de facto solution then that would be used for this? Is there -- I mean, in other words, for an ethanol plant to use -- to count any of the feedstock in terms of their CI score and how it's coming in. They're going to have to use Verity in order to quantify that and be able to use it in their CI calculations?

帕特，我想回到 Verity 一會兒，嘗試了解是否還有另一個 - 那麼是否有任何類型的事實上的解決方案可以用於此目的？換句話說，是否有（我的意思是，乙醇工廠使用的）可以根據 CI 分數以及原料的進入方式來計算任何原料。他們將不得不使用 Verity 來量化並且能夠在 CI 計算中使用它？

As far as calculating a score, people couldn't do that in multiple different ways. What we're trying to do is bring together incredibly high-quality data, along with the methodologies that are incredibly high quality. And then it's put on to DLT technology.

就計算分數而言，人們無法透過多種不同的方式來做到這一點。我們正在努力做的是匯集令人難以置信的高品質數據以及令人難以置信的高品質方法。然後將其應用到 DLT 技術中。

Now DLT technology is the technology that's behind blockchain. It allows it to no one can mess with it at all. It's auditable, traceable, completely detailed and you can't mess with it. It's put down on data you can't change it, so there's no game playing involved here. That's what makes it attractive.

現在DLT技術是區塊鏈背後的技術。它允許任何人都無法擾亂它。它是可審計的、可追蹤的、完全詳細的，你不能亂動它。它被記錄在你無法更改的數據上，所以這裡不涉及任何遊戲。這就是它的吸引力。

So there's 2 parts in an ethanol plant. The plant -- there's a part that when you're running a plant itself, how one does CI reduction or carbon reductions or, call it, they might have choices about whatever they're doing in their plant. That's part of what needs to be documented. And then, of course, it's documented the feed that comes in. The way that we view this is that these make for very high-quality carbon credits insets that people are willing to pay for. They tell us. Well, we got to go prove that out and see if they really are really willing to pay for these high-quality inset credits.

乙醇工廠有兩個部分。工廠——有一個部分是，當你自己運營一家工廠時，人們如何減少 CI 或減少碳排放，或者稱之為，他們可能對他們在工廠所做的事情有選擇。這是需要記錄的內容的一部分。然後，當然，它記錄了進來的信息。我們認為，這些可以產生人們願意支付的非常高品質的碳信用。他們告訴我們。好吧，我們必須去證明這一點，看看他們是否真的願意為這些高品質的插入信用付費。

Inset credits versus an offset credit. Inset credit means it's something directly related to supply chain that you're involved in an offset would be you fly an airplane, you go plant to treat. That's an offset. This is actually insets that are done in the supply chain. That means that you're tracking it all the way to gasoline and things like that.

插入信用與抵銷信用。插入信用意味著它是與供應鏈直接相關的東西，你參與抵消，例如你駕駛飛機，你去工廠處理。這就是一個抵消。這實際上是在供應鏈中完成的插圖。這意味著你要一直追蹤到汽油之類的東西。

So there's lots of interesting things that can be done on carbon and different plants have different CI scores. And this goes into great detail about those things and allows it to be documented and it makes them such a high quality that people appear to be willing to pay for it.

因此，可以用碳做很多有趣的事情，不同的植物有不同的 CI 分數。這對這些事情進行了非常詳細的描述，並允許將其記錄下來，這使得它們的品質如此之高，以至於人們似乎願意為此付費。

This also is true then the agricultural system. Remember in an agricultural system like we have, you have the farms, and we want people doing sustainable agricultural practices. It's our premise that if farmers get rewarded and paid for improving the sustainability of their farm, including the carbon reductions or carbon capture and their soil, that benefits the whole of the supply chain by bringing for the corn that is a very low carbon score.

農業系統也是如此。請記住，在像我們這樣的農業系統中，您擁有農場，我們希望人們進行永續的農業實踐。我們的前提是，如果農民因改善農場的可持續性（包括碳減排或碳捕獲及其土壤）而獲得獎勵和報酬，那麼透過帶來碳分數非常低的玉米，將使整個供應鏈受益。

But it is also producing protein and oil as well. And so -- we like it because it takes away the arguments that we hear from some of the environmental groups that say, "Oh, farming is bad." Well, I got news. We got data that says farming is very, very, very good. And so we should reward the farmers that do very, very well. There's lots of interest in this.

但它也生產蛋白質和油。因此，我們喜歡它，因為它消除了我們從一些環保組織那裡聽到的“哦，農業不好”的論點。嗯，我得到消息了。我們得到的數據顯示農業非常、非常、非常好。因此，我們應該獎勵那些做得非常非常好的農民。人們對此很感興趣。

Now the technique that we're doing, it applies not just in corn farming. It applies to beans. It applies to not just an ethanol plant, it applies to any biofuel plant and so Verity is interesting on all of those fronts. And it's not -- so it's way bigger than -- way bigger potential than just what we're doing, what ethanol plants are doing. It also includes biofuels. It also can track into the food markets with protein and such. But we'll have to stay focused and get this thing commercialized. I want to see the money. I want to see people pay us for the products itself. I get we'll get paid for services. I want to see the product, the carbon reduction value. I want to see us get paid for that.

現在我們正在做的技術不僅適用於玉米種植。它適用於豆類。它不僅適用於乙醇工廠，也適用於任何生物燃料工廠，因此 Verity 在所有這些方面都很有趣。它的潛力並不比我們正在做的、乙醇工廠正在做的要大得多。它還包括生物燃料。它還可以通過蛋白質等進入食品市場。但我們必須保持專注並將其商業化。我想看看錢。我希望看到人們為產品本身付費。我知道我們會獲得服務報酬。我想看看產品，碳減排值。我希望看到我們為此獲得報酬。

How much can sustainable farming practices reduce that CI score, if you look at the value chain, obviously, you're most familiar with yours and ethanol and SAF. But is it a material impact that the farming practices can have on the CI score and hence the value?

如果你看看價值鏈，永續農業實踐可以在多大程度上降低 CI 分數，顯然，你最熟悉的是你的價值鏈、乙醇和 SAF。但農業實踐會對 CI 分數及其價值產生實質影響嗎？

About that is this kind of mind-boggling of what's possible. So one of the assumptions that -- whenever you're seeing these people in broadly a spouse, about row crops and crops are bad and -- they're using really updated data. They have -- they're out of touch with what really has done in real life in modern farming. There's equipment nowadays where like John Deere (inaudible).

這就是令人難以置信的可能性。因此，當你看到這些人基本上是配偶時，關於中耕作物和農作物的假設之一是不好的，而且他們正在使用真正更新的數據。他們與現代農業現實生活中的實際情況脫節。現在有像約翰迪爾（聽不清楚）這樣的設備。

(Operator Instructions).

（操作員說明）。

Oh, excuse me, I was answering Shawn's question. Yes, Shawn? So what happens is that imagine the potential is that right now, we're at about -- we've seen farms with positive -- I mean they increased carbon incrementally. We've seen very negative carbon. There's all kinds of new techniques that are available to drive carbon score down. And we've seen things that potentially like minus 100 and so we're at the very beginning, I think, an evolution/revolution in farming as we get better and better at looking at the data, collecting the data, managing the data, paying people to drive the carbon abatement down. And you get other benefits to in the whole sustainability arena.

哦，對不起，我正在回答肖恩的問題。是的，肖恩？因此，想像一下現在的潛力，我們已經看到了積極的農場，我的意思是他們逐漸增加了碳排放。我們已經看到了非常負的碳。有各種各樣的新技術可以降低碳排放量。我們已經看到了可能像負100這樣的東西，所以我認為，隨著我們越來越善於查看數據、收集數據、管理數據，農業的進化/革命才剛開始，付錢給人們來減少碳排放。您還可以在整個永續發展領域獲得其他好處。

So for example, I was mentioning a -- that you get a -- when you -- John Deere has a tractor that can go -- it has cameras on it for herbicide and it's an herbicide plier. You're driving along at 15 miles an hour, and the machine recognizes a particular kind of weed and spray the particular kind of herbicide on that weed at 15 miles an hour. So guess what, huge amount of reduction in the amount of herbicides that's applied to that field. That's huge. And same thing you can do that with fertilizer and all the rest.

舉例來說，我提到了一個——當你——約翰迪爾有一台可以行駛的拖拉機時——它上面有用於除草劑的攝像頭，而且它是一個除草劑鉗子。你以每小時 15 英里的速度行駛，機器會識別出一種特定的雜草，並以每小時 15 英里的速度向該雜草噴灑特定類型的除草劑。所以你猜怎麼著，該田地的除草劑用量大幅減少。那是巨大的。同樣的事情你也可以用肥料和其他東西來做。

So the techniques, people have misunderstood or thought that agriculture is mature. It's not mature. There's a data revolution and equipment revolution occurring. And we're paying attention and that's what our Verity is leveraging.

所以技術上，人們都誤解了或認為農業已經成熟了。它還不成熟。數據革命和設備革命正在發生。我們正在關注，這就是我們的 Verity 所利用的。

And our next question will be coming from Abhishek Sinha of Northland Capital Markets.

我們的下一個問題將來自 Northland Capital Markets 的 Abhishek Sinha。

If you could remind us how much capital do you need actually right now to build the project? And how much do you actually expect from DOE?

您能否提醒我們，您現在實際上需要多少資金來建造該專案？您對能源部的實際期望是多少？

Lynn, do you want to take that one?

林恩，你想拿走那個嗎？

Sure. Our hard cost for the project are tracking, as we do the detailed engineering and work through the remainder of the year and into Q1 to finalize the lump sum pricing tracking at about $1.2 billion, $1.3 billion for the hard cost. As far as the DOE loan, that's a function of the debt service coverage ratios in other terms, the maturity of the offtakes and we're modifying certain features of the project to allow for a higher debt capacity. We've applied for $950 million of debt, and we think we'll succeed at that level.

當然。我們正在追蹤該專案的硬成本，因為我們進行詳細的工程設計，並在今年剩餘時間和第一季工作，最終確定一次性定價追蹤約為 12 億美元，其中 13 億美元為硬成本。就能源部貸款而言，這取決於其他方面的償債覆蓋率、承購期限，我們正在修改該專案的某些特徵以允許更高的債務能力。我們已經申請了 9.5 億美元的債務，我們認為我們會在這個水平上取得成功。

But there are costs associated with a project financing like you have to pay -- you have to prepay or -- sorry, provide for the interest during construction and other reserves associated with the debt. So that adds to total financed installed costs.

但是，專案融資會產生一些相關成本，例如你必須支付——你必須預付，或者——對不起，提供建造期間的利息以及與債務相關的其他準備金。因此，這增加了總融資安裝成本。

Got it. And like how much have you really invested in the financing and securing the equipment and materials? And how much more you think is required? And when do you expect that capital to be deployed?

知道了。以及您在融資和確保設備和材料方面實際投入了多少資金？您認為還需要多少？您預計何時部署這筆資金？

Well, we've spent about $100 million to date on the development of Net-Zero 1. Out of that $100 million, it's comprised of site control, permitting, a lot of engineering, which is not a hard asset, but it's IP and then a certain amount of that is equipment deposits. So by the time we get to financial close, we could be $150 million in, including more equipment deposits. And we would then choose depending on the structure of the equity, whether -- how much of that we leave in the project as equity in kind.

到目前為止，我們已經在 Net-Zero 1 的開發上花費了大約 1 億美元。在這 1 億美元中，它包括站點控制、許可和大量工程，這不是硬資產，但它是知識產權和那麼其中一定金額就是設備押金。因此，當我們完成財務結算時，我們可能會獲得 1.5 億美元的資金，其中包括更多的設備押金。然後，我們將根據股權結構進行選擇，我們是否將多少股權作為實物股權留在專案中。

But we don't. I think the total financed install cost that I just mentioned will be substantially more than $100 million or $150 million. So we have to go get third-party capital for that. That's why we're in process with the DOE and third-party equity investors at the project level.

但我們不這樣做。我認為我剛才提到的融資安裝總成本將大大超過 1 億或 1.5 億美元。因此，我們必須為此尋求第三方資本。這就是我們在專案層面與能源部和第三方股權投資者合作的原因。

And I mean, in terms of your financing, I mean you have to get the EPC wrapped up and then I'm trying to understand like to get EPC wrapped up, you have to get the lump-sum turnkey pricing, right? And when does that -- I mean, if I need to put my hat on like where exactly I need to put like in terms of where she will latch on, like where do we get lump sum turnkey pricing by when should we achieve that?

我的意思是，就您的融資而言，我的意思是您必須完成 EPC，然後我試圖理解，要完成 EPC，您必須獲得一次性交鑰匙定價，對吧？那什麼時候——我的意思是，如果我需要把我的帽子戴在哪裡，就像我需要戴在哪裡，比如她會在哪裡，比如我們應該在什麼時候實現這一目標，從哪裡獲得一次性交鑰匙定價？

So now you're asking questions that sort of is another track of what was asked earlier in terms of milestones, and I don't think we're prepared to talk a lot about those in detail yet. We'll assess key milestone as it occurs and disclose that. But I don't want to update on those activities.

所以現在你問的問題是之前在里程碑方面提出的問題的另一個軌道，我認為我們還沒有準備好詳細討論這些問題。我們將評估關鍵里程碑的發生並予以揭露。但我不想更新這些活動。

I'd say it's one of these things we can't win at this. And from the standpoint of communicating those kind of milestones publicly because they're going to change, everything changes because we find something different. There's -- I don't know, like it's an inflationary environment. Anyway, you're constantly updating the things. You've got the DOE over here with their questions, and we have to adjust to them, and we have equity people that we're working with, too. And so it's coming together.

我想說這是我們無法贏得的事情之一。從公開傳達這些里程碑的角度來看，因為它們將會改變，一切都會改變，因為我們發現了一些不同的東西。我不知道，好像這是一個通貨膨脹的環境。不管怎樣，你一直在更新東西。美國能源部在這裡提出了他們的問題，我們必須適應他們，我們也有與我們合作的股權人員。所以它走到了一起。

McDermott has been a very good partner. I can tell you that much. And we've already negotiated the contract. We got to finalize the numbers. Finalizing the number depends upon timing. And we're working through it, keeping it updated. They're going through extra details. We're looking at the scope of the project and stuff. But it's all going along on a good schedule. And so we like what we see. We're trying to bring it all together, but the rate limiting step is DOE right now.

麥克德莫特是一位非常好的合作夥伴。我只能告訴你這麼多。我們已經就合約進行了談判。我們必須最終確定數字。最終數字取決於時間。我們正在解決這個問題，並不斷更新。他們正在研究額外的細節。我們正在研究項目的範圍和其他內容。但這一切都在按部就班地進行。所以我們喜歡我們所看到的。我們正在努力將所有這些整合在一起，但目前速率限制步驟是能源部。

And last one, if I could please, have you heard anything or anything has changed in terms of your portfolio of offer agreements? I mean, are you getting any questions from those guys? Has anything changed in terms of the agreements there?

最後一個問題，請問您是否聽說您的要約協議組合發生了任何變化？我的意思是，你有從那些人那裡得到任何問題嗎？那裡的協議有什麼變化嗎？

No. The airlines that we work with are all cooperative partners for us. They recognized will have to change. Some of them had conditions precedent at the end of the year and stuff. But there everyone that's cooperative been working on extending, modifying them, and whatever. They recognize that ETJ is a very low-cost route to make jet-fuel, that matters in this space. It also is the most scalable one more so than any other technology that's out there, we believe. And I think they will, too. We'll be out talking more about this with people more publicly. We just wrapped up a study that we do with McKinsey here for the last few months, and they verify what we thought they did independently. We like that.

不會。與我們合作的航空公司都是我們的合作夥伴。他們認識到必須改變。其中一些在年底有先決條件之類的。但每個合作者都在致力於擴展、修改它們等等。他們認識到 ETJ 是一種成本非常低的生產噴射燃料的途徑，這在這個領域很重要。我們相信，它也是最具可擴展性的技術，比現有的任何其他技術都要高。我想他們也會的。我們將更公開地與人們更多地討論這個問題。我們剛剛完成了過去幾個月與麥肯錫一起進行的一項研究，他們發現了我們認為他們獨立所做的事情。我們喜歡這樣。

And so we just got to -- there's so much noise in this space. There's only a few things that can work. You think about it. You got to something that's cost-effective, check. You got to have something scalable, check. Something that leverages existing infrastructure, right, drop-in, FEED stock-wise and on the product side, check and check.

所以我們必須——這個空間裡有太多噪音。只有幾件事可以發揮作用。你想想吧。你必須做一些具有成本效益的事情，檢查一下。你必須有一些可擴展的東西，檢查一下。利用現有基礎設施的東西，對的，直接進場，按庫存進行飼料和產品方面的檢查和檢查。

So getting everyone to understand this, that is the game afoot. And HEFA is a -- that's the stuff that's made from oil seeds or from waste fats and oils that’'s made from renewable diesel. That has potential, too, but it's got its own issues because it takes away from renewable diesel or competes and it adds cost renewables diesel in order to make SAF and it's limited on feedstock supply. So it's a -- ATJ is a really, really product, and we're more confident about it every single day about that.

所以讓每個人都明白這一點，這就是正在進行的遊戲。 HEFA 是一種由油籽或廢脂肪和油製成的物質，這些廢脂肪和油是由可再生柴油製成的。這也有潛力，但它也有自己的問題，因為它會佔用再生柴油或產生競爭，為了製造 SAF 而增加了再生柴油的成本，而且原料供應受到限制。因此，ATJ 是一款非常非常的產品，我們每天都對此更有信心。

Thank you. At this time, there are no more questions in the queue. I would like to turn the call back over to Pat Gruber for closing remarks. Please go ahead.

謝謝。此時，隊列中已經沒有更多問題了。我想將電話轉回給帕特·格魯伯（Pat Gruber）做結束語。請繼續。

Well, thanks everybody for your support. And I'll tell you, it has been frustrated. I mentioned that in the prepared remarks. But it has been frustrating waiting for 45Z, I never believed it would take this long, but we need to know the numbers so we can get on and figure out the rest of the details for projects. And overall, the pieces are here, they're coming together. You heard me just talk about us doing a study of really looking ourselves in the mirror is, do we have it right? Do we have a thoughtful, we had bring in to consultants and stuff. Yes, we're convinced we have it right. And it's the right thing.

嗯，謝謝大家的支持。我告訴你，它已經令人沮喪了。我在準備好的發言中提到了這一點。但等待 45Z 的過程令人沮喪，我從沒想過會花這麼長時間，但我們需要知道這些數字，這樣我們才能繼續並弄清楚專案的其餘細節。總的來說，各個部分都在這裡，它們正在組合在一起。你聽到我剛才談到我們正在做一項研究，真正照照鏡子，我們做對了嗎？我們是否有一個深思熟慮的人，我們聘請了顧問和其他人。是的，我們確信我們是對的。這是正確的事。

I really -- this point that Lynn made in his prepared remarks out, we're not going to wait to be profitable until N-Z1 is up. We're going to try to be profitable long before that. That's our duty and responsibility and that's what we're going to try to make it happen. So it's not a one-trick pony betting all the -- it's not a one trick pony.

我真的 - Lynn 在他準備好的演講中指出的這一點是，我們不會等到 N-Z1 上市才實現盈利。在那之前我們就會努力獲利。這是我們的義務和責任，也是我們將努力實現的目標。所以這不是一墩小馬賭上所有的賭注——它不是一墩小馬。

So anyway, we are -- keep an eye on us. It's an exciting time. This Verity is particularly exciting. RNG, we like that a lot. And I think we have all the pieces here. It's just getting it down and put them in the right places and get on with it.

所以無論如何，我們——請關注我們。這是一個令人興奮的時刻。這個真理特別令人興奮。 RNG，我們非常喜歡這樣。我想我們已經擁有了所有的部分。只需將其放下並將它們放在正確的位置並繼續進行即可。

Thank you, everybody, for joining us.

謝謝大家加入我們。

Thank you all for joining today's conference call. This comes to the conclusion of the call. You may all disconnect.

感謝大家參加今天的電話會議。通話就此結束。你們都可以斷開連線。