Genesis Energy LP (GEL) 2011 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to the 2011 fourth-quarter conference call for Genesis Energy. Genesis has three business segments. The Pipeline Transportation Division is engaged in the pipeline transportation of crude oil and carbon dioxide. The Refinery Services division primarily processes sour gas streams to remove sulfur at refining locations. The Supply and Logistics division is engaged in the transportation, blending, storage and supply of energy products, including crude oil, refined products and CO2. Genesis' operations are primarily located in Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama, Florida and the Gulf of Mexico.

During this conference call, management may be making forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Securities Act of 1933 and the Securities Exchange Act of 1934. The law provides Safe Harbor protection to encourage companies to provide forward-looking information. Genesis intends to avail itself of those Safe Harbor provisions and directs you to its most recently filed and future filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

We also encourage you to visit our website at Genesis Energy.com where a copy of the press release we issued today is located. The press release also presents a reconciliation of such non-GAAP financial measures to the most comparable GAAP financial measures.

At this time, I would like to introduce Grant Sims, CEO of Genesis Energy LP. Mr. Sims will be joined by Steve Nathanson, President and COO; Bob Deere, Chief Financial Officer and Karen Pape, Chief Accounting Officer.

Thank you, good morning and welcome to everyone. We generated another record of available cash for the quarter as we continue to see the benefits from our acquisitions and improved demand for our products and services. For the quarter, the partnership's performance allowed us to make a distribution earlier this week of $0.44 per unit, a 10% increase over the year-earlier quarter. This now represents 26 consecutive quarters in which we have increased the distribution to our unitholders and the 21st quarter during such periods the distribution has been increased by at least 10% over the year-earlier quarter with the lowest growth over the year-earlier quarter during that period being 8.7%.

All of our business segments reported increases in segment margin over the same period last year for both the quarter and the full year. These increases are reflective of the positive impact of our acquisitions, the increased integration of our service capabilities and the increasing demand for those services. At this point, I would like to turn it over to Steve Nathanson, our President and Chief Operating Officer.

Thanks, Grant. During 2011 and the first six weeks of 2012, we have been busy completing several growth initiatives and strategic acquisitions. As you know, in August 2011, we increased the service capabilities of our black oil fleet with the addition of 30 barges and 14 push boats. Just this week, we purchased outright the seven barges that had been subleased since the transaction closed.

During the fourth quarter, we increased our crude oil and refined product service capabilities in the shale play areas through the acquisition of refining and pipeline assets in the Niobrara region in Wyoming and continue to work on the expansion of our crude oil infrastructure in Texas. These enhancements include truck, pipeline and terminal facilities that increase our ability to provide services in the Eagle Ford production area and to the refinery complexes in the Houston and Texas City area.

Projects around our Texas pipeline include increased tankage and truck capabilities near West Columbia and terminal facilities in Texas City with dock access, both expected to be operational by the end of the second quarter. We have initiated construction of a 16-inch loop line of our existing pipeline into Texas City, which is supported by a term contract with one of our refining customers, which will increase our service capabilities into that area in the first half of 2013. We are in the process of increasing our fleet of trucks to complement our expanded pipeline services.

In addition to these initiatives, we have begun the construction of a new crude-by-rail unloading terminal connected to our existing oil pipeline at Walnut Hill, Florida. This facility will be capable of handling unit train shipments of oil for direct delivery to one of our refinery customer and indirect delivery through third-party common carriers to potentially multiple other markets in the Southeast. We anticipate the facility will be fully operational by the third quarter of 2012.

On January 3, we completed the acquisition of interest in several Gulf of Mexico crude oil pipeline systems for Marathon Oil Corporation and announced plans with Enterprise Products Partners to build a crude oil gathering pipeline in the deep Gulf of Mexico -- deepwater Gulf of Mexico. The acquired pipelines from Marathon will complement our existing and our planned infrastructure, enhance our ability to provide attractive capacity and market optionality to producers for their existing and future developments, as well as our refining customers onshore in Texas and Louisiana.

Our planned pipeline with Enterprise Products will allow us to interconnect with existing shallow water pipelines for delivery of crude oil produced from world-class domestic reserves to multiple refinery markets in the Gulf Coast.

Additionally, we have been and continue to be focused on building out our organization as we expand the breadth and reach of our Company. With that, I will turn it back to you, Grant.

Thanks, Steve. We believe these initiatives and acquisitions are excellent opportunities as we continue to identify ways to optimize our existing assets to create synergies and expand the capabilities of our core competencies.

Before I turn it over to Bob to discuss in greater detail the reported results, I would like to recognize the contribution of our employees. Because of their dedication to safe, responsible and efficient operations, we continue to work together to be able to deliver increasing long-term value for all of our unitholders.

Thanks, Grant. I will discuss the key differences in our fourth-quarter results for 2011 as compared to the fourth quarter of 2010 and then discuss the year-to-date results. My discussion will focus on our segment margin as fluctuations in our revenues resulting from changes in commodity price levels of crude oil, petroleum products or chemicals, like caustic soda, do not have a corresponding impact on our earnings or available cash flow.

I will discuss our results in terms of our three reporting segments -- Pipeline Transportation Services, Refinery Services and Supply and Logistics. For the 2011 quarter, we reported record available cash of $37.3 million, slightly above the record we set in the third quarter. Each of our segments contributed to this increase in available cash as compared to the 2010 quarter through a combination of improved results from existing operations and acquisitions, namely our interest in the CHOPS pipeline and the additional black oil barges we acquired in August of 2011.

Available cash increased by $8.1 million during the 2011 quarter from $29.2 million in the 2010 quarter. Net income attributable to the partnership for the 2011 quarter was $7.8 million, or $0.10 per unit, as compared to a net loss attributable to the partnership of $74.7 million for the 2010 quarter.

As you may recall, in 2010, we incurred non-cash management compensation expenses of $75.6 million from the exchange of certain equity interest in our general partner for new common units in connection with our 2010 IDR restructuring. As these non-cash management expenses were attributable to our general partner, our common unitholders' share of our net income was $1 million, or $0.02 per unit during the 2010 quarter.

Turning to our operating segments, results from our Pipeline Transportation segment improved to $17.3 million, representing a $2.7 million increase over the prior-year quarter. Our share of distributable cash from CHOPS increased $1.5 million from the 2010 quarter as a result of owning our interest for the full quarter in 2011. The extended maintenance and planned improvements to offshore facilities by producers at a major field connected to CHOPS continued throughout the fourth quarter of 2011.

The Pipeline Transportation segment margin also increased due to an increase in throughput volumes on our onshore crude oil pipelines of 4,832 barrels per day. The increase in total offshore pipeline -- the increase in total onshore pipeline volumes is attributable primarily to the Texas pipeline system where we saw almost a 20% increase in volume over the prior year's quarter. We continue to see a benefit in volumes along this system from increased demand by refiners connected to our pipeline for sweet crude from the Eagle Ford production area in Texas.

Refinery Services segment margin for the 2011 quarter was $19.7 million, an increase of $2.5 million from the prior-year quarter. NaHS sales volumes increased by 2,577 dry short tons to 40,961 dry short tons for the fourth quarter of 2011. Caustic soda sales volumes declined slightly between the two quarters. However, as we have indicated in previous calls, caustic soda sales are not the primary focus of our Refinery Services activities.

Our economies of scale and logistics capability allow us to effectively market caustic soda to third parties, including many of the same parties who acquired NaHS from us. We also perform additional services for refiners, including, among others, handling sulfidic or spent caustic.

Supply and Logistics segment margin was $15.7 million in the 2011 quarter compared to $9.9 million in the prior-year quarter. The increase in segment margin resulted primarily from increased volumes, operating efficiencies, and changes we made in some of our existing crude oil and petroleum products' commercial arrangements. Increased production from these sources of crude oil, such as the shale plays in Texas and Wyoming, have increased demand for our services. Our volumes in this segment increased 4% in the 2011 quarter. Supply and Logistics segment margin also increased from the contribution of the additional black oil barges acquired in August 2011.

Interest costs, corporate general and administrative expenses, maintenance capital expenditures and income taxes to be paid in cash affect available cash before reserves. Interest costs increased for the 2011 quarter as compared to the 2010 quarter by $2.9 million, primarily as a result of the issuance of unsecured notes in November 2010 to finance our investment in CHOPS. Corporate cash, general and administrative expenses increased by $1.8 million during the 2011 quarter, primarily as a result of personnel additions and other costs to meet our needs for the growth of the partnership. Also affecting available cash before reserves is an increase in proceeds from sales to surplus assets of $1.9 million.

In addition to the factors impacting available cash from reserves, net income included the effect of several non-cash charges and credits. Depreciation and amortization expense was $19.2 million for the 2011 quarter, an increase of $6.1 million between the quarterly periods, primarily from the addition of the black oil barges. Additionally, net income also includes the effects of unrealized gains or losses on derivative contracts that are not included in available cash until they are realized.

In the 2011 quarter, our unrealized losses on our derivative instruments totaled $5.4 million compared to an unrealized gain of $700,000 in the 2010 quarter. Net income is also affected by the non-cash effects of equity-based compensation expense, which was approximately $1 million during the 2011 quarter compared to $78.4 million in the prior-year quarter. The equity-based compensation expenses during the 2010 quarter were associated with the exchange of equity arrangements in connection with our IDR restructuring.

Differences between the cash distributions from joint ventures and the income effect of those joint ventures are also adjustments between available cash and net income. Distributions exceeded earnings from these joint ventures by $4.8 million in 2011 and by $1.6 million in 2010. Net income also includes the effects of activities related to growth opportunities or acquisitions.

In the 2010 quarter, these transaction costs totaled $10.7 million related to our IDR restructuring and acquisition of our 50% interest in CHOPS while in 2011 these transaction costs totaled $900,000. Our non-cash income tax benefit was $2 million during the 2011 quarter versus income tax expense of $700,000 in the 2010 quarter.

I will now discuss the principal differences between the full years of 2011 and 2010. For the year 2011, we recorded net income of $51.2 million, or $0.75 per unit, as compared to a net loss attributable to the partnership of $48.5 million in 2010. Net income available to our common unitholders in 2010 was $19.9 million, or $0.49 per unit. Available cash before reserves generated during 2011 was $138.2 million compared with $101.5 million in 2010, an increase of 36.2%. Segment margin for 2011 was $202.5 million, an increase of $52.9 million when compared to 2010.

Results from our Pipeline Transportation segment improved $19.6 million to $67.9 million when compared to $48.3 million in 2010. Our pro rata share of distributable cash generated by CHOPS increased by $15.3 million during 2011 as a result of owning our interest in the pipeline for the full year. Volumes on our Texas pipeline system increased by 16,435 barrels per day as demand by refiners connected to the pipeline increased.

Refinery Services segment margin for 2011 was $74.6 million, an increase of $11.7 million from 2010. NaHS sales volumes increased 2% to 147,670 dry short tons in 2011. Mining customers were the primary source of the increase in NaHS sales volume due to the increased demand for copper and molybdenum in the world's emerging economies. Caustic soda sales volumes improved 7% year-over-year.

Supply and Logistics segment margin increased $21.6 million to $60 million for 2011 when compared to $38.3 million for 2010. Similar to the quarter-to-quarter comparison, the increase in segment margin resulted primarily from increased volumes, operating efficiencies and changes we made in some of our existing crude oil and petroleum products' commercial arrangements.

In addition, increased production from new sources of crude oil, principally the shale plays in Texas and Wyoming, has increased demand for our services. The volumes we handled during 2011 increased by 14% as compared to 2010.

Also affecting available cash before reserves, interest costs increased during 2011 by $20.9 million to $35.8 million, primarily as a result of the issuance of unsecured notes late last year and an increase in the average outstanding balance on our credit facility, primarily due to our new growth projects we discussed earlier.

Corporate cash, general and administrative expenses increased by $5.3 million, primarily related to increases in payroll and related costs as our personnel needs have grown with the growth of our partnership. Other items affecting available cash before reserves were an increase in proceeds from sales of surplus assets of $5.5 million, offsetting an increase in maintenance capital expenditures of $1.4 million, primarily relating to our marine fleet utilized in our Supply and Logistics operations.

In addition to the factors impacting available cash before reserves, net income included the effect of several non-cash charges and credits. Depreciation and amortization expense was $61.9 million for 2011, an increase of $8.4 million from 2010. Available cash before reserves included cash distributions from our equity investees of $20 million for 2011 while net income included only the earnings we recorded from those investees totaling $3.3 million, a difference of $16.7 million.

In 2010, this difference was $2.3 million as we did not own our interest in Cameron Highway until the fourth quarter of 2010. Additionally, 2011 net income included the effects of $4.4 million of costs for activities related to the acquisition of assets for growth opportunities as compared to $11.3 million in 2010.

In 2010, our net loss included non-cash equity charges of $83 million, primarily reflecting those charges incurred in connection with our IDR restructuring. Our non-cash income tax benefit was $2.1 million during 2011 versus an income tax expense of $1.3 million in the 2010 quarter. Grant will now provide some concluding remarks to our prepared comments.

Thanks, Bob. As we mentioned in the beginning of the call, we have been busy continuing to identify and capitalize on the opportunities presented to us by our increasingly integrated operations and given our areas of commercial and operating expertise. We have increased the distribution to our unitholders for 26 consecutive quarters and the 21st quarter of earnings during such periods that we increased the distribution by at least 10% over the year-earlier quarter. We are targeting to keep that trend going in 2012 while maintaining a conservative and flexible capital structure.

The fundamentals of our businesses are strong. As we look at the rest of this year and into future years, we see no reason those fundamentals would materially turn on us. We believe we have already made or are currently making the investments to build value for all of our stakeholders in the years to come.

As always, we are proud of our opportunity to work with a great group of folks, their immense contributions and their commitment to providing safe, responsible and efficient services to our customers. With that, I will turn it back to the moderator for any questions. Thanks.

(Operator Instructions). Ron Londe, Wells Fargo.

Thanks. It looked like you had a pretty good year in the NaHS business. You said on your release that the paper sector had picked up and helped. In your comments, you were talking about copper and moly. Can you give us an idea of maybe the growth between the two and what your outlook is for this year for the two sectors and how that is going to affect NaHS?

Well, the publicly announced mine expansions globally, domestically and particularly in South America where we do business are all well-documented. The price of the copper has rebounded significantly. So we don't see any slowdown in that particular segment for us. Longer term, the world is short on pulp as emerging countries have a demand for paper products like we have here in North America. So again, we see some reopening of some mills after a long period of consolidation and the existing mills that are operating today are running very hard. So that segment has shown some renewed energy for us as well.

In the Logistics part of the business, said you purchased outright seven barges that you had been leasing. Can you give us a feel for the cost of that?

It is in the neighborhood of $30 million.

And also, you were talking about the greater demand for fuel oil and heavy ends in the international market. Can you give us a feel for who your customers are there, if the slowdown in Europe might affect that business and generally what the outlook is?

Typically, we sell to bigger aggregators if you will. We provide somewhere between 100,000 and 200,000 barrel component blend to a bigger Panamax class, perhaps as much as 0.5 million barrels. The fuel is ultimately destined for -- not for Europe, but for the Caribbean and South America, as well as Asia for uses of power generate -- powergen fuel or other fuel applications.

So have events in Japan benefited that operation, would you say?

Very minimally we would think, but driven more by the increasing power and boiler fuel demands of the developing economies in South America and Asia.

Okay. That is all I have for now. Thank you.

TJ Schultz, RBC Capital Markets.

Hey, guys. Good morning. For the rail unloading terminal last quarter, can you provide a cost estimate for the project and incremental cash flow potential? And then I guess beyond the refinery customer, what are the delivery markets that will be served here? Just trying to get a sense of how much of the opportunity is locked in with the refinery customer and what we should view as upside potential from delivery to markets through common carriers.

It is a rather unique situation. It is the Alabama Gulf Coast Railroad, which is directly connected to the Burlington Northern Santa Fe system. It is the short-haul regional railroad, crosses our pipeline downstream of our existing Jay Station where we have significant excess tankage capacity. So basically we have the ability to quickly -- as a practical matter, because of our operating configuration, we can -- the reason that we can fast-track it is because basically we can deliver straight from the train into our pipeline system.

As a result, the total cost is very competitive with -- or supercompetitive, if you will, with other train unload capabilities. Obviously, our primary customer is our existing relationship refinery in the area, which is a refinery operated by Shell Chemical. It is their land in Alabama. Additionally, we have interconnectivity that we can effect with another common carrier pipeline, which will allow us to access additional refiners directly in Alabama and Mississippi.

Okay, thanks. On the 16-inch loop into Texas City, can you discuss the cost estimate here and then capacity addition? And then I guess you discussed $7 million to $10 million kind of EBITDA run rate from the Texas activities, including the Texas City terminal. Just should we view this now beginning in third quarter and then what kind of incremental impact would this new loop line have on that run rate?

The cost of the line is in the order of magnitude of $35 million. It will -- currently, we have an eight-inch system that is limited to, depending upon certain float conditions, call it 50,000 to 55,000 barrels a day because of the demands of the refiners, as well as our ability to move volumes into our Texas City terminal. We are increasing our capacity and capabilities to move barrels into Texas City, not only for the refiners, but also to feed our terminals.

So as we said, we have a long-term -- entered into a new long-term agreement that substantially underpins the investment, but gives us the flexibility to serve additional refiners that we currently can't serve because of our capacity limitations and ensure that we can get barrels to our terminals for export by a barge.

Okay. But the Texas City and West Columbia assets, should we kind of be thinking of that as impacting beginning third quarter of this year?

Hopefully second quarter.

Okay, all right. And then just lastly, your 40% expansion of trucking operations, where are you kind of in that process right now?

Well, we are placing the trucks in the field in all the shale plays, primarily in South Texas, but along our existing pipeline and gathering systems. As Bob mentioned earlier, we have seen increased activity. So it is built out on what we have existing and the increase in production in those areas.

Okay, thanks.

John Edwards, Morgan, Keegan.

Yes, good morning, everybody.

Good morning, John.

Can you talk about just why the overall crude oil pipelines were down sequentially?

Hang on just a second.

Sure.

Are you talking from third quarter?

Yes, I mean it was down year-over-year and it looks like it was down Q-over-Q about 2% overall.

I don't think we were down year-over-year for (multiple speakers).

I'm sorry. Down sequentially, excuse me. Down sequentially, yes.

I don't have the third-quarter volumes in front of me. Bob has them in very small print.

We are all adjusting our bifocals here. Just a second.

(inaudible) is showing Mississippi was down sequentially 4.8%. Jay was up 2.9%. Texas was down 3.3% sequentially. So overall down 2.3%.

Right. The Mississippi is primarily a function of the production that comes out of the EOR fields and the natural decline associated there with. As you point out, the throughput on the Jay system was up and within reason, the Texas system was down a little bit, but not significantly.

Okay. And then I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about the -- in the Supply and Logistics area, to what extent are you taking advantage of the WTI Brent spreads? I mean obviously we saw that segment, the margin was up very significantly year-over-year. And so maybe if you could just give a little more background on how that may have contributed.

It is an extremely small contribution of our overall business. We are basically in the -- we like to say we are in the blocking and tackling business of moving things from point A to point B and getting compensated for that. So we are not overly affected by a contraction or a widening of the spread between there. In fact, our crude oil subsegment, if you will, was basically flat to slightly up fourth quarter over third quarter. Where the total segment margin was down was primarily a function of our refined products business having a quarter that was less than what they did in the third quarter.

Okay. So will that compression, widening of those spreads, is that something that is really not going to factor into the Supply and Logistics outlook?

That's correct. I mean I think obviously our investment at the Texas City terminal is designed to provide the service capability to move oil from Texas, which is long light sweet crude oil and is going to get longer light sweet crude oil with the reversal of Seaway. But we certainly didn't make investments based upon a $14 or $18 deltas to LL.

Additionally, a lot of the rail capabilities are being driven not only by the spread of LL to TI, but increasingly by the discount to TI that the producers are realizing in the field because of inadequate infrastructure, whether or not it is pipeline infrastructure or rail infrastructure or otherwise, to even get TI flat pricing.

So certainly, as we go forward, some of our investments are designed to provide the logistical capability in moving distressed price oil to higher value markets. But based upon historical results, it is a very minimal part of our historical results.

Okay. And then on the -- moving over to your NaHS and caustic soda business, just to clarify, would you expect volumes to be able to increase further from here? Are you expecting flattish from here? What's your thoughts there?

I think, in 2012, we see certainly some movement upwards from the run rate that we experienced in 2011. As Steve said, with the announcements that are out there by the likes of BHP and Freeport-McMoRan and Rio Tinto and others that the significant public disclosure of opening of new mines both in North and South America, as well as expansion of existing mines that we certainly see, assuming everybody stays on track, the potential for 10% to 15% volume growth starting some time in 2013, which in part is why we are currently in the process of expanding our NaHS service capabilities by working with Holly Frontier at their Tulsa refinery facility.

Okay. And then as far as pricing in that area, is that strengthening, is it flat? How is that looking?

I think, again, as we have -- 90% of the cost of NaHS is reflected in the cost of caustic soda. We have structured our contracts to reflect increases and decreases in the price of caustic soda and basically our business is a fixed margin business.

Okay. All right. And then what is your expectations now as far as activity in the Gulf of Mexico?

We see an increasing amount of activity. Certainly, I think that there was something put out in December by somebody, but it was in the context of a Shell announcement that they have now established production in 9,200 feet of water in the Gulf of Mexico over at their Perdido development, but that the expectation is that the number of deepwater rigs by the end of 2012 working in the Gulf of Mexico would be in the neighborhood of 40 to 42 rigs compared to plus or minus 36 at the time of the Macondo incident in April of 2010.

So we feel -- we also saw in the BP first-quarter earnings release a full sanctioning by them, BHP and ChevronTexaco at the Nassau South spar production facility, which will ultimately add another 120,000 to 140,000 barrels a day of production capacity at the Mad Dog field, which once the existing Mad Dog spar comes back up with rated capacity of 80,000 barrels a day is very good news for CHOPS.

You have also seen us participate with Enterprise to build a new system back from the sanctioned Lucius development -- it is operated by Anadarko -- for initiation of service in 2014. So we feel like there is a return to activity in the Gulf of Mexico, probably not as fast as everybody wants to see, but clearly I think there is -- the reservoirs are there. The technology is there. The industry is committed to the safe and responsible development of those world-class reservoirs and we feel like we are very well-positioned with our investment in CHOPS and Poseidon to provide the flexible pipeline capacity to help the producers access the refining markets in both the upper Texas coast, as well as Louisiana.

All right, that's really helpful. Thank you very much.

(Operator Instructions). Ethan Bellamy, Robert W. Baird.

Hey, guys. You will probably tell me to go fish on this, but any thoughts on the cost or the economics on the Keathley Canyon line?

I don't think that we are prepared to divulge that. I think that -- I will say this. From a perspective of having -- in a previous lifetime and now we are back in it, but having been intimately involved in providing midstream services in the Gulf of Mexico, in particular the deepwater Gulf of Mexico for 20 some odd years, it is a very attractive opportunity for us and Enterprise. And we are very excited to be able to do that and provide that service capability back to the pipelines that we have interest in to take it on to shore on behalf of the producers.

Okay. And post-Macondo, are there any additional levels of environmental or regulatory scrutiny that would either raise costs or make the pipeline take longer?

Not really from a pipelining point of view. I mean obviously -- and this is one of the misunderstood aspects of pipelining versus whether or not it is onshore or offshore relative to the particular incident which occurred at Macondo, which basically was an open flow well that we have -- we have block valves that are located along the route of the pipeline. So to the extent that there is any issue with the integrity of the pipeline that the maximum that can be spilled, if you will, is the quantity of oil between the two block valves because they can be remotely operated to close whenever there is an integrity issue associated with it.

So from an overall pipelining point of view, that has been standard procedure for years and years and years. And as a result, because of the particular instance which occurred at Macondo, it is not really applicable to potential issues from a pipelining point of view.

Okay, thanks. One kind of housekeeping question, with respect to maintenance CapEx going forward for the year, was the rate for the fourth quarter a good number or should we expect an uptick from the recent acquisitions and should we expect any lumpiness with respect to the barge business for the year?

I think given our breadth of operations that we would look at a $4 million to $5 million kind of annualized run rate. We are pretty aggressive in terms of expensing routine maintenance and repair expenses associated with the barge and boat activities above the line, so to speak. So the $4 million to $5 million is really associated with our pipeline terminal operations, as well as other kind of major maintenance capital items that, as a practical matter, continue the safe and reliable operations of our businesses.

Thanks very much.

There are no further questions at this time. I would like to turn the call back over to management for closing comments.

Okay, well, again, thanks, everybody, for coming on. I know it is kind of a busy morning with other announcements going out, but we look forward to talking to you again in 90 days, if not sooner. So thank you very much.

This concludes today's teleconference. You may disconnect your lines at this time and thank you for your participation.