First National Corp (FXNC) 2022 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Please go ahead, Mr. Ellis.

請繼續，埃利斯先生。

Thank you, operator. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to our call, and thank you for participating. Before we begin, I will remind you that our remarks and answers may contain forward-looking information about future events or the company's future performance. This information is subject to risk and uncertainties and should be considered in conjunction with the risk factors detailed in our MD&A.

謝謝你，接線員。大家，早安。歡迎您撥打我們的電話，感謝您的參與。在開始之前，我要提醒您，我們的言論和回答可能包含有關未來事件或公司未來業績的前瞻性信息。該信息存在風險和不確定性，應與我們的 MD&A 中詳述的風險因素結合考慮。

Joining me is Rob Inglis, Chief Financial Officer. Before Rob speak to quarterly results, I'll offer some thoughts on the market environment and our outlook. With four Bank of Canada interest rate increases since March, the economy and housing market are entering a new cycle. Perhaps not since the 1970s has Canada seen inflationary pressures such as those experienced in the past seven months. Recent quantitative tightening has made it more expensive to borrow, with the outcome that housing activity and mortgage lending has slowed.

與我一起的是首席財務官 Rob Inglis。在羅布談論季度業績之前，我將提供一些關於市場環境和我們前景的想法。加拿大央行自3月份以來已四次加息，經濟和房地產市場正在進入新的周期。自 20 世紀 70 年代以來，加拿大或許從未經歷過過去七個月所經歷的通脹壓力。最近的量化緊縮政策導致借貸成本上升，導致住房活動和抵押貸款放緩。

First National has not been immune to these changes, and our single-family origination was down 10% year over year in Q2, following a 3% decline in Q1. Regionally, our Calgary and Montréal offices outperformed, reporting 10% increases in volumes. Our expectation is that the market will continue to adjust to this rising rate cycle, with our single-family origination continuing to moderate year over year in the third quarter of 2022 in line with housing activity.

First National 也未能倖免於這些變化，我們的單戶住宅數量繼第一季度下降 3% 後，第二季度同比下降了 10%。從地區來看，我們的卡爾加里和蒙特利爾辦事處表現出色，業務量增長了 10%。我們的預期是，市場將繼續適應這一上升的利率週期，2022 年第三季度我們的單戶住宅數量將繼續同比放緩，與房地產活動一致。

There is always a high degree of imprecision in forecasting, but there is sufficient market evidence that housing activity will continue to soften. For interest rate hikes from the Central -- further interest-rate hikes from the Central Bank as early as September will add to the downward pressure.

預測總是存在高度不精確性，但有足夠的市場證據表明房地產活動將繼續疲軟。央行加息方面——央行最早在9月份進一步加息將加大下行壓力。

In light of the cautious forecast, some context is warranted. While second-half originations are likely to fall below 2021, volumes last year were record-setting for First National and the industry. Even with continued moderation, originations are likely to remain near pre-pandemic levels. By comparison, commercial mortgage market activity continues to be strong, and our Q2 commercial production was 19% higher than last year. Demand in the second quarter continue to shift toward insured multifamily mortgages against reduced activity in the office and industrial market.

鑑於謹慎的預測，一些背景是有道理的。雖然下半年的發貨量可能會低於 2021 年，但去年的發貨量創下了 First National 和整個行業的紀錄。即使持續放緩，起源也可能保持在大流行前的水平附近。相比之下，商業抵押貸款市場活動繼續強勁，我們第二季度的商業產出比去年高出 19%。在寫字樓和工業市場活動減少的情況下，第二季度的需求繼續轉向有保險的多戶抵押貸款。

It bears noting that First National's commercial mortgages under administration passed the $40-billion milestone during the quarter. A great accomplishment for the team, and one that speaks to our strength as a full-service lender with a range of solutions for commercial borrowers, including short- and long-term products. And looking ahead, we anticipate continued strength in commercial mortgage production based on the pipeline of commitments. However, it seems likely that higher interest rates will also create headwinds for commercial mortgage demand perhaps beginning in the fourth quarter of this year.

值得注意的是，第一國民銀行管理的商業抵押貸款在本季度突破了 400 億美元的里程碑。對於團隊來說，這是一項巨大的成就，也證明了我們作為全方位服務貸款人的實力，為商業借款人提供了一系列解決方案，包括短期和長期產品。展望未來，我們預計基於一系列承諾，商業抵押貸款生產將持續強勁。然而，利率上升似乎也可能會從今年第四季度開始對商業抵押貸款需求產生不利影響。

Rising rates also have a bearing on refinancing, prepayment, and renewal activity. As the advantages of refinancing to borrowers lessen, we anticipate a correspondingly favorable impact to First National in reduced prepayment speed on our portfolio. In the second quarter, prepayment speeds remained elevated, and the accelerated amortization of capitalized origination and issuance cost continued to have a net adverse effect on the securitized portfolio.

利率上升也會對再融資、預付款和續約活動產生影響。隨著再融資對借款人的優勢減弱，我們預計我們投資組合的提前還款速度降低會對第一國民產生相應的有利影響。第二季度，預付款速度仍然較高，資本化發起和發行成本的加速攤銷繼續對證券化投資組合產生淨不利影響。

As inflation has accelerated, volatility in rates and credit spreads has increased as well. As a result, the spread on some residential mortgage products have widened recently, which combined with reduced prepayment speeds going forward, may be constructive for securitized net interest margin.

隨著通貨膨脹加速，利率和信用利差的波動性也加大。因此，一些住宅抵押貸款產品的利差最近有所擴大，再加上未來提前還款速度的降低，可能對證券化淨息差有利。

The markets are changing and will likely continue to adjust in the near term until inflation returns to the Bank of Canada's target level. This process will require an adjustment by Canadians but restoring price stability is crucial to reestablishing a sustainable and predictable housing market for future years.

市場正在發生變化，並且可能在短期內繼續調整，直到通脹回到加拿大央行的目標水平。這一過程需要加拿大人進行調整，但恢復價格穩定對於未來幾年重建可持續和可預測的房地產市場至關重要。

For our part, we are entering this part of the cycle in good shape. Our MUA is at a record level, and that creates future earning opportunities for mortgage administration. As prepayment activity returns to a more normal level, it will also create a tailwind for net interest margin and ultimately leads to more renewal opportunities on scheduled maturities.

就我們而言，我們正在以良好的狀態進入周期的這一部分。我們的 MUA 處於創紀錄的水平，這為抵押貸款管理創造了未來的創收機會。隨著預付款活動恢復到更正常的水平，它也將為淨息差創造有利條件，並最終帶來更多按預定期限續約的機會。

In looking at market drivers and risks in the very near term, we can take some comfort in the strength of the job market in Canada. May saw the lowest rate of unemployment on record since comparable data became available in 1976. Assuming the Bank of Canada's policy actions don't tilt the economy into a recession, employment should provide support for mortgage demand in upcoming quarters. The same can be said for the government's plan for immigration over the next two years as newcomers secure housing.

在審視近期的市場驅動因素和風險時，我們可以對加拿大就業市場的強勁表現感到一些安慰。 5月份的失業率是自1976年獲得可比數據以來有記錄以來的最低水平。假設加拿大央行的政策行動不會使經濟陷入衰退，那麼就業應該會為未來幾個季度的抵押貸款需求提供支持。隨著新移民獲得住房，政府未來兩年的移民計劃也是如此。

From a risk perspective, one of the advantages of our business model is that about $90 billion of our period and MUA was administered for institutional investors with no residual credit risk to First National. Our credit risk is generally limited to conventional mortgages with loan to value less than 80% securitized in our ABCP conduits.

從風險角度來看，我們業務模式的優勢之一是，我們期間約 900 億美元的 MUA 是為機構投資者管理的，第一國民沒有剩餘信用風險。我們的信用風險通常僅限於在我們的 ABCP 渠道中證券化的貸款價值低於 80% 的傳統抵押貸款。

Recent growth in our residential underwriting teams, while costly in terms of near-term operating leverage our strategic importance. While the market is changing and First National is responding, our cornerstone strategy of providing a full range of mortgage solutions, employing technology to enhance processes and service, and maintaining a conservative risk profile is as relevant today as it was a year or a decade and 30 years ago. Accordingly, we will maintain focus on these fundamentals, which are critically important to us, to our partners, and to our customers.

我們的住宅承保團隊最近有所增長，儘管短期運營成本高昂，但仍充分發揮了我們的戰略重要性。儘管市場在變化，第一國民也在做出反應，但我們提供全方位抵押貸款解決方案、利用技術來增強流程和服務以及保持保守的風險狀況的基石戰略在今天和過去一年或十年一樣重要。 30年前。因此，我們將繼續關注這些基本原則，這對我們、我們的合作夥伴和我們的客戶至關重要。

Now over to Rob for his report.

現在請羅布作報告。

Thanks, Jason. From a strategic perspective, we consider growth in MUA to be a key element of performance. On this basis, we are satisfied with the results in Q2. I won't repeat the information found in our disclosure documents, but I will single out a few key performance metrics.

謝謝，傑森。從戰略角度來看，我們認為 MUA 的增長是業績的關鍵要素。在此基礎上，我們對第二季度的結果感到滿意。我不會重複披露文件中的信息，但我會挑選出一些關鍵績效指標。

MUA increased 5% year over year and at an annualized rate of 9% Q2, despite a 2% decline in total new originations credit to the corresponding period 2021. Looking at the impact of MUA upon 2Q results, revenue was higher by 14%. However, this was largely the result of rising interest rates, which led to gains on (technical difficulty) value income, we find a clearer picture of the operational impact of mortgage funding spreads and operating expense levels.

儘管 2021 年同期新發放信貸總額下降了 2%，但第二季度 MUA 同比增長 5%，年化增長率為 9%。從 MUA 對第二季度業績的影響來看，收入增長了 14%。然而，這主要是利率上升的結果，利率上升導致（技術難度）價值收入增加，我們發現抵押貸款融資利差和運營費用水平對運營的影響更加清晰。

Pre-fair market value income was down 21% from last year. The change can be attributed to several factors. Gains on deferred placement fees, where the commercial mortgages sold to investors were lower as multifamily-residential spreads narrowed. In Q2 2021, these spreads were abnormally wide due to the financial impact of the pandemic period. In Q2 2022, spreads returned to more traditional levels for these kinds of mortgages.

展會前市值收入較去年下降 21%。這種變化可以歸因於幾個因素。遞延安置費用收益，隨著多戶住宅利差收窄，出售給投資者的商業抵押貸款下降。 2021 年第二季度，由於大流行期間的財務影響，這些利差異常之大。 2022 年第二季度，此類抵押貸款的利差恢復到更傳統的水平。

Placement fees -- placement fee pricing did not suffer as much, however, mortgages placed on a funded basis also reflected a tighter-spread environment when compared to the normal market that existed in 2021. Margins earned on mortgages held in our balance sheet prior to securitization were also lower as short-term warehouse funding costs increased in line with the Bank of Canada actions. We estimate that these net cost increases, including interest expense, reduced pretax income by as much as $10 million between the comparative periods.

安置費——安置費定價並沒有受到太大影響，但是，與2021 年存在的正常市場相比，基於融資的抵押貸款也反映出利差更緊的環境。我們資產負債表中持有的抵押貸款所賺取的利潤由於短期倉庫融資成本隨著加拿大央行的行動而增加，證券化率也有所下降。我們估計，這些淨成本增加（包括利息支出）使比較期間的稅前收入減少了多達 1000 萬美元。

On expenses, I will note that (technical difficulty) full-time employee growth of 18%, along with wage inflation and commercial underwriting compensation paid on the record levels origination resulted in a 28% increase in total salaries and benefits year over year. We're mindful of the effect of the full-time employee increase on near-term operating leverage. As new employees take time to achieve full productivity, we provide them with extensive training to shorten this cycle. And as always, we have a variety of IT automation projects on the go to enhance efficiency.

在費用方面，我要指出的是，（技術難度）全職員工增長了 18%，加上工資上漲和創紀錄水平的商業承保薪酬，導致工資和福利總額同比增長 28%。我們注意到全職員工增加對近期運營槓桿的影響。由於新員工需要時間才能充分發揮生產力，因此我們為他們提供廣泛的培訓以縮短這個週期。與往常一樣，我們正在進行各種 IT 自動化項目來提高效率。

As a footnote during the quarter, we extended our $1.5-billion revolving line of credit by one year to now matured in March 2027. This committed facility provides flexibility and certainty, while the cost of borrowing reflects our BBB issuer rating.

作為本季度的腳註，我們將15 億美元的循環信貸額度延長了一年，目前已於2027 年3 月到期。這一承諾的貸款提供了靈活性和確定性，而藉款成本反映了我們的BBB 發行人評級。

This summary would not be complete without mentioning that our monthly dividends were paid at the annualized equivalent of $2.35 per share, and our Q2 payout ratio was 58%; or 87%, excluding gains and losses of financial instruments. We think this remains a very attractive feature of owning First National shares.

如果不提及我們的每月股息以每股 2.35 美元的年化金額支付，並且我們第二季度的派息率為 58%，那麼本摘要就不完整；或 87%，不包括金融工具的損益。我們認為這仍然是持有第一國民股票的一個非常有吸引力的特點。

In closing, given the environment, we are satisfied with the performance to date this year. Our securitization portfolio of $35 billion and our servicing portfolio of $90 billion had never been as high. As a result, we can look forward to generating income and cash flow going forward, while working to unlock the value of our significant single-family renewal book. These sizable portfolios provide opportunity and some stability in a rapidly changing market environment.

最後，考慮到環境，我們對今年迄今為止的表現感到滿意。我們 350 億美元的證券化投資組合和 900 億美元的服務投資組合從未如此之高。因此，我們可以期待未來產生收入和現金流，同時努力釋放我們重要的單戶住宅更新賬簿的價值。這些規模龐大的投資組合在快速變化的市場環境中提供了機會和一定的穩定性。

That concludes our prepared remarks. Operator, please open the lines for questions. Thanks.

我們準備好的發言到此結束。接線員，請打開提問線路。謝謝。

Thank you, sir. (Operator Instructions) Étienne Ricard, BMO Capital Markets.

謝謝你，先生。 （操作員說明）Étienne Ricard，BMO 資本市場。

Thank you, and good morning.

謝謝你，早上好。

Good morning.

早上好。

Single-family spreads improved meaningfully at the end of Q2. How responsive has the industry been in adjusting mortgage rates higher to reflect funding cost? And what pricing action are you seeing from the banks, in particular?

第二季度末，單戶住宅利差顯著改善。該行業在調高抵押貸款利率以反映融資成本方面的反應如何？您特別看到銀行採取了什麼定價行動？

So the response in mortgage rates is always a little bit slower, I think, than you would hope. There's a stickiness, I think, to mortgage rates relative to some of the underlying benchmarks. But we have seen, as Rob has noted, and certainly as you could see by that data point in the MD&A on mortgage spreads that Rob includes that we've seen a widening relative to where we have been recently when you simply measure an insured mortgage coupon against the 5-year risk-free Government of Canada bond.

因此，我認為抵押貸款利率的反應總是比您希望的要慢一些。我認為，相對於一些基本基準，抵押貸款利率存在粘性。但我們已經看到，正如Rob 所指出的，當然，正如您可以通過Rob 所包含的MD&A 中關於抵押貸款利差的數據點看到的那樣，我們已經看到，相對於最近的情況，當您簡單地衡量有保險的抵押貸款時，利差正在擴大。加拿大政府 5 年期無風險債券的息票。

I think we have been able to realize that because I think there's been a great deal of pressure on the cost of funds at the D-SIBs as we've seen a significant widening in where they can issue senior debt. On the flip side, we have been fortunate in the spread on NHA MBS pools has been relatively unchanged in comparison. So my hope is that we will be able to realize some of these more recently originated commitments as they flow through your funded and securitized mortgages in the next quarters.

我認為我們已經能夠認識到這一點，因為我認為 D-SIB 的資金成本面臨著巨大壓力，因為我們看到它們可以發行優先債務的範圍顯著擴大。另一方面，我們很幸運，相比之下，NHA MBS 池的利差相對沒有變化。因此，我希望我們能夠在接下來的幾個季度通過您的融資和證券化抵押貸款來實現其中一些最近做出的承諾。

The only headwind against that is I can already see some of the pressure mounting from some of our mortgage finance company competitors as they start reducing mortgage coupons as we see underlying risk-free rates adjusting. For instance, the 5-year Canada bond is down from what -- 3.5, six months ago to -- or six weeks ago to about [280] today.

唯一的阻力是，我已經可以看到我們的一些抵押貸款金融公司競爭對手所承受的壓力越來越大，因為我們看到潛在的無風險利率調整，他們開始減少抵押貸款息票。例如，加拿大 5 年期債券從六個月前的 3.5 跌至六週前的 280 左右。

So I think that we're going to see some pressure from competitors, both in terms of mortgage coupon, but also in terms of some of the special compensation incentives that they offer to mortgage brokers. So like always, I think it will be a relatively short-lived period in terms of these wider spreads.

因此，我認為我們將看到來自競爭對手的一些壓力，無論是在抵押貸款息票方面，還是在他們向抵押貸款經紀人提供的一些特殊補償激勵方面。因此，與往常一樣，我認為就利差擴大而言，這將是一個相對短暫的時期。

That's great. In the MD&A, you also mentioned that prepayment activity still remains elevated in Q2 despite the higher rates. Could you please expand on this dynamic?

那太棒了。在 MD&A 中，您還提到，儘管利率較高，但第二季度的預付款活動仍然較高。您能否詳細介紹一下這一動態？

Yeah. I think that as we made our way through the second quarter, there were still a great number of mortgage commitments, specifically for refinancing that were being done in the industry before we saw the significant move in rates. As a result, I think this is the last gasp of borrowers taking advantage of the opportunity to refinance into what are now historically low rates.

是的。我認為，當我們進入第二季度時，仍然有大量抵押貸款承諾，特別是在我們看到利率大幅波動之前該行業正在進行的再融資。因此，我認為這是藉款人利用再融資機會以目前處於歷史低位的利率進行再融資的最後一口氣。

I had hoped to see the prepayment speeds already showing a significant decline by the time we got to this point. They are lower, to be sure, but still elevated relative to historic levels. I'm quite confident that as we move forward now, as I see the average rates in the commitment pipeline higher, that the propensity to refinance amongst borrowers will definitely moderate as we move through the rest of this year.

我原本希望看到當我們到達這一點時，預付款速度已經顯示出顯著下降。當然，它們較低，但相對於歷史水平仍然較高。我非常有信心，隨著我們現在的進展，我看到承諾管道中的平均利率更高，隨著今年剩餘時間的推移，借款人的再融資傾向肯定會有所緩和。

And that will be beneficial to us in any number of ways. As I mentioned, the prepayment penalties we collect are not quite enough to offset the accelerated amortization of the capitalized cost that went along with securitizing those mortgages. But even more importantly, as the prepayment speeds slows, we'll be able to start enjoying a growth in the actual size of the securitized portfolio as we can realize on the net interest margins for the full term. So definitely a very positive trend that I'm looking forward to realizing on.

這將在很多方面對我們有利。正如我所提到的，我們收取的提前還款罰金不足以抵消抵押貸款證券化帶來的資本化成本的加速攤銷。但更重要的是，隨著預付款速度放緩，我們將能夠開始享受證券化投資組合實際規模的增長，因為我們可以通過整個期限的淨息差實現。這絕對是一個非常積極的趨勢，我期待著實現這一趨勢。

Understood. And lastly, the outlook has turned a bit more cautious in commercial. So in a rising-rated environment, how long do you expect it will take for buyers and sellers to agree on higher cap rates to the extent bond yields remain unchanged?

明白了。最後，商業前景變得更加謹慎。那麼，在評級上升的環境下，您預計買家和賣家需要多長時間才能在債券收益率保持不變的情況下就更高的上限利率達成一致？

Yeah, I think that is actually a very good question. Speaking with Jeremy Wedgbury, I think that he still have-- who's our SVP of Commercial mortgages. He is still seeing a great deal of debate amongst buyers and sellers in terms of where cap rates ought to be. We're seeing transactions in the marketplace that are not yet settled into a consistent level, but I think that's going to be a major influence on activity going forward. And I do believe as I mentioned that as we move through the rest of this year, the impact on higher -- of higher rates on cap rates is inevitable. And it seems likely that there should be some pressure on transactions in the commercial space.

是的，我認為這實際上是一個非常好的問題。與 Jeremy Wedgbury 交談時，我認為他仍然是我們的商業抵押貸款高級副總裁。他仍然看到買家和賣家之間關於資本化率應該在哪裡存在大量爭論。我們看到市場上的交易尚未達到一致的水平，但我認為這將對未來的活動產生重大影響。正如我所提到的，我確實相信，隨著今年剩餘時間的推移，資本化率的提高對更高的利率的影響是不可避免的。商業領域的交易似乎可能會面臨一些壓力。

We've already seen that start to evolve in some of the non-multi-family space. It's definitely been a slowdown in terms of other commercial products. I expect we'll see that follow through a little bit on the multifamily side.

我們已經看到這種情況開始在一些非多戶住宅空間中發展。就其他商業產品而言，這無疑是一個放緩。我希望我們會在多戶家庭方面看到這一點。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Nik Priebe, CIBC Capital Markets.

Nik Priebe，CIBC 資本市場。

Yeah, thanks. Good morning. Just to follow on to one of the earlier questions. You spoke about the benefit of an anticipated slowing of prepayment speeds on securitization margins. Are you able to help us quantify that either in terms of basis points or impact on net interest income?

是的，謝謝。早上好。只是為了繼續回答之前的問題之一。您談到了預計預付款速度放緩對證券化利潤的好處。您能否幫助我們量化基點或對淨利息收入的影響？

Probably not in those terms. But I can give you a sense of the pre -- the annualized prepayment speed on our portfolio of securitized mortgages has been as high as the low 20% range as we've moved through this period of extremely low rates. And I would say a more normalized prepayment speed would be either side of 10%.

可能不是這樣的。但我可以讓您了解一下我們的證券化抵押貸款組合的年化提前還款速度一直高達 20% 的低範圍，因為我們已經度過了這段利率極低的時期。我想說，更規範的預付款速度是 10% 左右。

What does that mean immediately in terms of net interest margin in basis points? Difficult to say. I think the most significant impact is going to be in absolute size of the securitized portfolio as prepayments slows and new securitizations are able now to really add to the overall size and the absolute dollar value of the NIM each period will grow.

就基點淨息差而言，這意味著什麼？很難說。我認為最重要的影響將是證券化投資組合的絕對規模，因為預付款放緩，而新的證券化現在能夠真正增加總體規模，並且每個時期的淨息差絕對美元價值都會增長。

The other advantage, of course, is, as I mentioned, the prepayment penalties that we collect from borrowers upon prepayment have not quite covered the cost of accelerated unwinding of the capitalized origination expenses. And so that too will add perhaps basis points to the NIM. That's all I can give you -- Rob, you can add more.

當然，另一個優點是，正如我所提到的，我們在提前還款時向借款人收取的提前還款罰金並不能完全覆蓋加速資本化發起費用的成本。因此，這或許也會為淨息差增加基點。這就是我能給你的全部——羅布，你可以添加更多。

I'll just add there's so many variables in the calculation, like there is -- is the mortgage 12 months into its term? Is it four years into its term? Have we amortized most of those capitalized cost already? Is it renewal? Renewal -- we securitize, there'd be no broker fee associated with that. Right? And as well, those debt discounts on the MBS we raised just to support that funding, that could be a debt discount, which we had to amortize quickly. Or premium, in some cases, if rates change during that period. So there's so many things that it's hard to answer your question in terms of this means this, right?

我只想補充一下，計算中存在很多變量，比如——抵押貸款期限是 12 個月嗎？任期已滿四年了嗎？我們已經攤銷了大部分資本化成本了嗎？是續約嗎？續約——我們進行證券化，不會產生與之相關的經紀人費用。正確的？此外，我們籌集的MBS債務折扣只是為了支持該資金，這可能是債務折扣，我們必須迅速攤銷。在某些情況下，如果利率在此期間發生變化，則可能會產生溢價。所以有太多事情很難回答你的問題，這意味著什麼，對吧？

Yeah. No, fair enough. I suppose it's a complex answer to a simple question, but thanks for that. The another question I had, I'm just trying to better understand the sensitivity of the salaries and benefits expense line item to origination activity. And I think in your prepared remarks, you had called out higher commercial of origination as a driver of higher salaries expense in the quarter. Can you tell us approximately what proportion of that line item would relate to commissions paid on commercial origination volumes?

是的。不，很公平。我想這是一個簡單問題的複雜答案，但謝謝你。我的另一個問題是，我只是想更好地了解工資和福利費用項目對發起活動的敏感性。我認為在您準備好的講話中，您已經指出較高的商業來源是本季度工資支出較高的推動因素。您能否告訴我們該訂單項中與商業發起量支付的佣金相關的大約比例是多少？

I'm not sure I have the information handy. But certainly, I mean, I think the head count went up by 18%, and normalized wages taking away the commissions paid to those guys or accruing to those guys or people of 18%. So that makes sense. But yeah, that's all I can say about that. I think (inaudible) from here.

我不確定我手頭有這些信息。但當然，我的意思是，我認為員工人數增加了 18%，標準化的工資拿走了支付給這些人的佣金，或者增加了 18% 的佣金。所以這是有道理的。但是，是的，這就是我能說的。我認為（聽不清）從這裡開始。

Yeah. I mean, I think the simple answer is that there is other than the variable portion of the compensation paid to the commercial originators on the team. There would be relatively little correlation between origination volumes and salaries and benefits other than significant steps during periods of prolonged growth in periodic origination volumes like we saw during the pandemic, where we really had to step on the gas and add bodies to meet the demand.

是的。我的意思是，我認為簡單的答案是，除了向團隊中的商業發起人支付的報酬的可變部分之外，還有其他部分。除了像我們在大流行期間看到的那樣，在周期性原始數量長期增長期間採取重大步驟之外，原始數量與工資和福利之間的相關性相對較小，我們確實必須加大力度並增加人員來滿足需求。

But generally speaking, we should enjoy a degree of operational leverage as volumes grow. There shouldn't be an immediate demand to add bodies.

但一般來說，隨著銷量的增長，我們應該享有一定程度的運營槓桿。不應該立即要求增加屍體。

Okay. And then last one for me. You had mentioned that you made some modest changes to broker incentives in the quarter, which had increased per unit brokerage fees very modestly. Can you just expand a bit on that decision and what prompted it? Like, is that in response to higher incentives being offered by competitors? Or has market share in the broker channel moderated somewhat? I'm just interested in a little bit more color on that one.

好的。然後是我的最後一張。您曾提到，您在本季度對經紀商激勵措施進行了一些適度的改變，這使得每單位經紀費的增加非常小幅。您能詳細說明一下這個決定以及促使它做出的原因嗎？比如，這是為了回應競爭對手提供的更高激勵措施嗎？或者經紀商渠道的市場份額是否有所下降？我只是對那個顏色多一點感興趣。

Yeah, it's -- the specific incentive was a cash-back program -- a cash-incentive program for the borrower's benefit as opposed to the broker's benefit. But it becomes part of that, sort of, origination cost. And it was very much in response to what we were seeing all of our competitors in the broker channel doing. So the channel can be very fickle, and it can be quite binary at times. And so it's important to remain at that, sort of, competitive-leading edge. Obviously, discipline will play a part in it, but we were definitely motivated by responding to what we're seeing in the marketplace.

是的，具體的激勵措施是現金返還計劃，這是一項針對借款人利益而不是經紀人利益的現金激勵計劃。但它成為了原始成本的一部分。這在很大程度上是對我們在經紀商渠道中看到的所有競爭對手所做的事情的回應。因此，渠道可能非常變化無常，有時也可能非常二元化。因此，保持競爭領先優勢非常重要。顯然，紀律將在其中發揮作用，但我們的動力絕對是對市場上所看到的做出回應。

Okay. (multiple speakers) That's helpful.

好的。 （多個發言者）這很有幫助。

That's usual. These things come and go.

這很平常。這些事情來來去去。

Okay. Fair enough. All right. That's it for me. Thanks very much.

好的。很公平。好的。對我來說就是這樣。非常感謝。

Jaeme Gloyn, National Bank Financial.

Jaeme Gloyn，國家銀行金融部門。

Yeah, thanks. Good morning. Just want to follow up on that last question. Are the broker cash-back incentives -- are those still in place through Q3 or was that -- did that end at June 30, let's say?

是的，謝謝。早上好。只是想跟進最後一個問題。經紀商現金返還激勵措施是否在第三季度仍然有效，或者是否在 6 月 30 日結束？

I think it is still in play.

我認為它仍在發揮作用。

Yeah, I think it is still. yeah, I think it was supposed to be temporary to sort of fend off our competitors and offer a similar product. But as, you know, historically, these things become a permanent thing almost, you know, it becomes -- until there's like a pandemic again, I guess, right? Well, (technical difficulty)

是的，我認為仍然是。是的，我認為這應該是暫時的，以抵禦我們的競爭對手並提供類似的產品。但是，你知道，從歷史上看，這些事情幾乎變成了永久性的事情，你知道，它變成了——直到再次出現流行病，我想，對吧？嗯，（技術難度）

Hello?

你好？

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Can you hear us?

你可以聽見我們嗎？

I can hear you.

我可以聽見你。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Apologies, guys. I don't know what happened there. What I was saying was that definitely these incentives, in whatever form they take, whether they're cash back to the borrower, a modest increase to the commission paid to the broker, or even a special discount on the mortgage rate, they come and go regularly. There's sort of a phenomenon they're difficult to avoid. But the cash-back program that we were specifically responding to from another lender just two or three days ago, they announced that while it was meant to end at the end of July, it has been now extended until the end of August. That may inform our own decisions around the program that we're offering to.

抱歉，伙計們。我不知道那裡發生了什麼事。我想說的是，這些激勵措施，無論採取何種形式，無論是向借款人返還現金，還是適度增加支付給經紀人的佣金，甚至是抵押貸款利率的特別折扣，它們都會到來，並且定期去。有一種現像是他們難以避免的。但就在兩三天前，我們專門回應了另一家貸方的現金返還計劃，他們宣布，雖然該計劃原定於 7 月底結束，但現在已延長至 8 月底。這可能會影響我們圍繞我們所提供的計劃做出的決定。

Okay, understood. Still on the on the expense side, thinking about the head count. I guess, maybe a little bit surprised to see it go up by more than 100 employees at quarter over quarter as we enter a bit more of a slower patch here. How should we be thinking about headcounts up, you know, like you said 18% year over year, but even going pre pandemic, it's up like 70%? So -- should we expect a leveling off, maybe even a bit of a pullback in number of staff, or any of these, sort of, seasonal hires? Maybe you can walk us through a little bit how to think about headcount expenses over the next several quarters?

好的，明白了。仍然在費用方面，考慮人數。我想，當我們進入一個更慢的補丁時，看到它每季度增加 100 多名員工，可能會有點驚訝。我們應該如何考慮員工人數的增加，你知道，就像你說的同比增長 18%，但即使是在大流行之前，也增加了 70% 左右？那麼，我們是否應該預期員工數量或季節性招聘的數量會趨於平穩，甚至可能會有所減少？也許您可以向我們介紹一下如何考慮未來幾個季度的員工開支？

Yeah, I think that it's a focus over here. It's fair to say that I wouldn't have expected the headcount to grow as it did quarter over quarter. There are still, I think, acute areas of the business that did require some bodies as we continue to deal with the activity related to all of the production. I mean, for context, while we're down 10% in the quarter and single-family compared to last year, it's still the second biggest quarter of origination in the history of First National.

是的，我認為這是這裡的焦點。公平地說，我沒想到員工人數會逐季增長。我認為，當我們繼續處理與所有生產相關的活動時，仍然有一些業務領域確實需要一些機構。我的意思是，就背景而言，雖然我們本季度的單戶住宅數量與去年相比下降了 10%，但這仍然是 First National 歷史上第二大季度的起源。

So we're definitely still adjusting to a new level of activity. That said, we're very focused on our operating leverage and its deterioration. We're very focused on headcount and overall salaries. I think that the pressures that we observed in the labor market over the last 18 months are starting to moderate. And I think that there's going to be an opportunity to instill perhaps a higher measure of caution, I think, in hiring and salaries as we move forward. So I want to look at that salary and benefit line as really more of an opportunity for us as we move forward.

因此，我們肯定仍在適應新的活動水平。也就是說，我們非常關注我們的運營槓桿及其惡化。我們非常關注員工人數和總體工資。我認為過去 18 個月我們在勞動力市場觀察到的壓力正在開始緩解。我認為，隨著我們的前進，將有機會在招聘和薪資方面灌輸更高程度的謹慎態度。因此，我想將工資和福利線視為我們前進過程中的一個真正的機會。

Okay, understood. As I'm thinking about hedge costs, I think the conversations we've had in the past, is that hedge costs and that $12 million increase driven perhaps more by the steepness of the curve rather than simply higher interest rates. Curve is flattening now with a more rapid Bank of Canada increases.

好的，明白了。當我考慮對沖成本時，我認為我們過去進行的對話是對沖成本和 1200 萬美元的增長可能更多地是由曲線的陡度驅動的，而不僅僅是更高的利率。隨著加拿大央行加息速度加快，曲線現在正在趨於平坦。

So should we think about that $12-million increase or even the level of interest expenses this quarter at the $30 million? Is this, kind of, like the high watermark for interest expenses? And we should expect to see this ticked down to a, let's say, a 2020, 2021 level. Or maybe talk about some of the puts and takes there.

那麼我們是否應該考慮增加 1200 萬美元，甚至本季度利息支出增加 3000 萬美元？這有點像利息支出的高水位嗎？我們預計會看到這一數字下降到 2020 年、2021 年的水平。或者也許可以談談那裡的一些看跌期權和看跌期權。

So I think yeah, definitely. I see that as a high watermark as the changes by the Bank of Canada flow through the rest of the money market. The repo rates we're earning on covering our short-bond positions have definitely come up significantly while the mortgage coupons or the yields on the fixed rate bonds that were short have actually come in a little bit. So yeah, I think that another just operating tailwind that we can look forward to. I think that expense line should definitely moderate throughout the rest of the year.

所以我想是的，絕對是的。我認為這是一個高水位線，因為加拿大央行的變化會影響貨幣市場的其他部分。我們通過彌補空頭債券頭寸而賺取的回購利率肯定大幅上升，而抵押貸款息票或空頭固定利率債券的收益率實際上略有上升。所以，是的，我認為我們可以期待另一個剛剛運行的順風車。我認為今年剩餘時間的支出肯定會有所放緩。

Okay. Good to confirm. Last one for me. Shifting to the revenue side and specifically on servicing fee income, a nice step-up in the absolute dollar value. Also a nice step-up in the, let's say, like the ratio as a percent of the MUA. You did call out third-party underwriting, that's perhaps a driver of some of that, are you able to separate to some extent the contribution of that third-party underwriting or maybe the volume contribution to this performance in the Q2? And what I'm trying to get at is, let's say, how much of the result is recurring versus how much might have been a little bit volume driven in a seasonally strong quarter?

好的。很好確認。最後一張給我。轉向收入方面，特別是服務費收入，絕對美元價值有了很大的提升。比方說，這也是一個很好的提升，比如 MUA 的百分比。您確實提到了第三方承銷，這可能是其中的一個驅動因素，您是否能夠在某種程度上區分第三方承銷的貢獻，或者可能是第二季度業績的銷量貢獻？我想要了解的是，比方說，結果中有多少是重複出現的，而在季節性強勁的季度中，有多少可能是由少量成交量驅動的？

That's a question that we've gotten now, I guess, for a few quarters in a row. And I think I'll have to take that away with Rob and think about a way to give a perhaps the group a sense of perhaps the per unit, strictly speaking, mortgage administration contribution and perhaps a sense of a per-unit third-party underwriting services contribution. But in the moment, I can't really strip those two numbers apart for you but let me take that away and see we can provide you with something going forward that will provide the kind of clarity you're looking for. I understand the nature of the question.

我想，這是我們連續幾個季度遇到的問題。我想我必須和羅布一起把這個想法拿走，並考慮一種方法，讓整個團隊了解嚴格來說，每個單位的抵押貸款管理貢獻，也許還有每個單位的第三方的感覺。承銷服務貢獻。但目前，我無法真正為您將這兩個數字分開，但讓我把它拿走，看看我們可以為您提供一些未來的東西，從而提供您所尋求的清晰度。我了解問題的本質。

Okay. Good. Thanks. I'll re-queue.

好的。好的。謝謝。我重新排隊吧

Graham Ryding, TD Securities.

格雷厄姆·瑞丁 (Graham Ryding)，道明證券。

Good morning. I think you made a comment around originations likely to move back towards pre-pandemic levels. Can you just maybe expand on that? If I look at your origination single-family back in 2019, that would, sort of, imply a 30% to 40% decline year over year for the remainder of the year. Is that a fair assessment? Or are you talking more about just, sort of, the number of mortgage originations and not necessarily factoring in the increase in value that we've seen in the last couple of years?

早上好。我認為您對可能回到大流行前水平的起源發表了評論。你能擴展一下嗎？如果我回顧一下 2019 年的獨戶住宅，這在某種程度上意味著今年剩餘時間將同比下降 30% 至 40%。這是一個公平的評價嗎？或者您更多地只是談論抵押貸款發放的數量，而不一定考慮到我們在過去幾年中看到的價值增長？

Yeah, I think that I probably should have characterized. It was really more of a contextual thing. I think, you know, perhaps overshot the mark. I don't expect to go all the way back to, sort of, dollar values from that period. I was simply just trying to highlight the fact that even with continued moderation in the origination, we do expect to be, perhaps not be lower at but still above pre-pandemic levels. It's just the idea that last year was such an unbelievably large year for the industry. Even with reduction from here, we still expect to be in good shape. But no, I think that characterizing a 30% or 40% decline is definitely overshooting our expectations.

是的，我想我可能應該描述一下。這實際上更多的是一個上下文問題。我想，你知道，也許有點過分了。我不期望一路回到那個時期的美元價值。我只是想強調這樣一個事實：即使疫情爆發持續放緩，我們確實預計可能不會低於大流行前的水平，但仍高於大流行前的水平。只是認為去年對於該行業來說是令人難以置信的重要一年。即使從這裡開始減少，我們仍然期望保持良好狀態。但不，我認為描述 30% 或 40% 的下降肯定超出了我們的預期。

Okay. That makes sense. My next question would just be on the -- you mentioned in the MD&A, the CMHC had announced some new rules for aggregators in its securitization programs. Maybe just some context how material you think this could be for some of your institutional buyers and any numbers or anything you could share in terms of the -- what would be, sort of, your current institutional placement volume that might be impacted by this change?

好的。這就說得通了。我的下一個問題是關於您在 MD&A 中提到的，CMHC 宣布了針對其證券化計劃中的聚合商的一些新規則。也許只是一些你認為這對你的一些機構買家來說有多重要的背景，以及你可以分享的任何數字或任何東西——你當前的機構配售量可能會受到這一變化的影響？

Yeah, I would say a nonmaterial amount of our institutional placement would be impacted by this. The specific details and subtleties around how this new advice will be applied are still unclear. But I would say that the change by CMHC was made to address a specific type of activity that, well, within the strict interpretation of the allocation rules was allowable was definitely outside the spirit. That's not a type of transaction that we were engaging in. And I don't see any of our significant investor relationships affected by this, going forward. There may be some small relationships that having -- that are impacted, but they're not critical to our operations.

是的，我想說我們的機構安置的非實質性數量將受到此影響。有關如何應用這一新建議的具體細節和微妙之處仍不清楚。但我想說，CMHC 的改變是為了解決特定類型的活動，在分配規則的嚴格解釋範圍內是允許的，這絕對超出了精神。這不是我們正在進行的交易類型。而且我認為未來我們的任何重要投資者關係都不會受到此影響。可能會有一些小型關係受到影響，但它們對我們的運營並不重要。

Okay. So bottom line, your institutional funding capacity is not going to be impacted materially --

好的。所以最重要的是，你的機構融資能力不會受到重大影響——

It is not. No. It is -- yeah, it's not materially changed.

它不是。不，是的，沒有實質性改變。

Okay, understood. And then my last question, if I could. Just the gains that you've booked on these financial instruments, I understand, is hedging related, but it's pretty material -- $55 million year to date. And my understanding is this is all ultimately economically neutral for you. So where is the offset here? Is it going to come through your securitization NIM over time? And if so, is there anything you could quantify or help us, sort of, think about over -- the impact, I guess, over the near term?

好的，明白了。然後是我的最後一個問題，如果可以的話。據我所知，您在這些金融工具上登記的收益與對沖相關，但它相當重要——今年迄今為止已達 5500 萬美元。我的理解是，這對你來說最終在經濟上是中立的。那麼這裡的偏移量在哪裡呢？隨著時間的推移，它會通過你的證券化 NIM 實現嗎？如果是這樣，你有什麼可以量化或幫助我們思考的——我想，短期內的影響？

Yeah, I mean, ultimately, so a lot of the hedge gain or loss that we may make in a period, we are able to give hedge accounting treatment too. And that is the portion of the short-bond position we hold against funded mortgages on the balance sheet pending securitization. And so any hedge gains or losses from the moment the mortgage funds at the moment to securitize, we're able to capitalize into the securitized mortgage line and flow it through net interest margin over time. So that should be neutral to NIM.

是的，我的意思是，最終，我們在一段時間內可能產生的很多對沖收益或損失，我們也能夠進行對沖會計處理。這就是我們針對資產負債表上待證券化的融資抵押貸款持有的短期債券頭寸的一部分。因此，從抵押貸款資金目前進行證券化的那一刻起，任何對沖收益或損失，我們都可以將其資本化到證券化抵押貸款額度中，並隨著時間的推移將其通過淨息差流動。所以這對 NIM 來說應該是中立的。

The portion that we see on the income statement is the gain and loss that we recognized during the commitment period where no actual funded mortgage exists yet. And it is outsized this quarter. And so far, this year, we're unable to capitalize those. And so you're right. A very large hedge gain will ultimately be reflected in a moderated net interest margin, all else being equal going forward.

我們在損益表上看到的部分是我們在承諾期內確認的損益，其中尚不存在實際資助的抵押貸款。本季度的規模過大。今年到目前為止，我們還無法利用這些資金。所以你是對的。在其他條件相同的情況下，巨大的對沖收益最終將反映在適度的淨息差中。

But remembering that the portfolio of securitized mortgages, it's between $35 billion and $40 billion. It's built up over a period of five years and more. So a period or two of large hedge gains blended in against that should not have a huge effect in terms of the NIM. Rob, is that fair way to characterize that?

但請記住，證券化抵押貸款組合的規模在 350 億至 400 億美元之間。它是在五年多的時間內建立起來的。因此，一兩年的大規模對沖收益與此相結合，不會對淨息差產生巨大影響。羅布，這是描述這一點的公平方式嗎？

Yeah. So just to be a bit more detail. These are all residential hedges, not on our multifamily. So it will be -- 4.5-year duration once they securitized. And I guess it depends on whether they do fund. I mean some of these commitments might disappear because they go somewhere else. These -- the borrowers would think that they do fund with us, it will affect the NIM over 5 years.

是的。所以只是想更詳細一點。這些都是住宅樹籬，不在我們的多戶住宅中。因此，一旦他們證券化，期限將是 4.5 年。我想這取決於他們是否提供資金。我的意思是，其中一些承諾可能會消失，因為它們去了其他地方。這些——借款人會認為他們與我們一起提供資金，這將影響五年內的淨息差。

Okay. That's helpful. So we're talking about base of NIM -- small basis points here, potentially, I think.

好的。這很有幫助。所以我們談論的是淨息差基數——我認為這裡可能是小基點。

Yeah, like we're not like (multiple speakers) I wouldn't expect to see a major change in the NIM. as a result of that in the following quarters.

是的，就像我們不像（多個發言者）一樣，我不希望看到 NIM 發生重大變化。其結果是在接下來的幾個季度中。

Okay. That's it for me. Thank you.

好的。對我來說就是這樣。謝謝。

(Operator Instructions) Geoff Kwan, RBC.

（操作員指令）Geoff Kwan，RBC。

Hi, good morning. Just had a couple of questions. One was on the other expense line. I know you had the reclassification around the other hedging expenses, but just in the context, looking forward, if we start to see more significant slowdown in the market, how should we think about how this expense line grows? Is it, kind of, going to change in tandem with overall activity? Or are there other factors that will, kind of, dictate how this line grows in the coming year?

早上好。只是有幾個問題。其中一個在另一筆費用上。我知道您對其他對沖費用進行了重新分類，但就目前的情況而言，展望未來，如果我們開始看到市場出現更顯著的放緩，我們應該如何考慮該費用項目如何增長？它會隨著整體活動而改變嗎？或者是否有其他因素會在一定程度上決定該產品線在來年的增長？

I think it's mostly fixed stuff now, Geoff. It's the rent, the depreciation of leaseholds in this building, particularly, the few equipment across the country, that kind of thing. One thing that was a small increase, I think, in the quarter was hoping more travel. With the pandemic, no one was going anywhere. But now we've had a couple of sales conventions and things like that where people are travelling again, so that's a bit up. But I think generally speaking, this is like fixed cost, it's costs that you have to incur as a corporation to serve as mortgages, computer expenses, that kind of thing.

我認為現在大部分都是固定的東西了，傑夫。是租金，這棟大樓的租賃權折舊，特別是全國范圍內為數不多的設備，諸如此類的事情。我認為，本季度略有增長的一件事是希望有更多的旅行。疫情期間，沒有人去任何地方。但現在我們已經舉辦了幾次銷售會議以及類似的活動，人們再次旅行，所以這個數字有所上升。但我認為一般來說，這就像固定成本，這是你作為一家公司必須承擔的抵押貸款、電腦費用等費用。

Okay. And just my second question is on the bridge loan segment. Can you talk about, I guess, the appetite, that's changed in terms of the amount of loans you want extended? But also two is on the overall interest rate on a weighted average basis or whatnot that you're realizing on that. Is that rate, kind of, coming up in tandem with what we're seeing in terms of the overnight rate? Or is the pricing mechanism there a little bit different?

好的。我的第二個問題是關於過橋貸款部分。我想，您能談談您希望延長的貸款金額方面的興趣變化嗎？但還有兩個是基於加權平均的總體利率或您所意識到的其他利率。這個利率是否與我們所看到的隔夜利率一致？還是定價機制有點不同？

So starting with the second question first, those loans tend to have, I'd say, stickier coupons. I mean, you get above a certain interest rate level, and you're not exactly responding one to one with administered rates like the (technical difficulty)

因此，首先從第二個問題開始，我想說，這些貸款往往具有更高的優惠券。我的意思是，你的利率水平超過了一定水平，並且你並沒有完全用像（技術難度）這樣的管理利率進行一對一的回應

First of all, what we're talking about?

首先，我們在談論什麼？

We're talking about the commercial bridge loans.

我們正在談論商業過橋貸款。

I think they are all floaters from what they --

我認為他們都是飛蚊症患者——

Are they all floaters?

都是飛蚊症嗎？

No, not all of them are floaters.

不，並非所有這些都是飛蚊症。

I would say 90% are floaters, so prime based. So as prime goes up, we'll make more money like it's --

我想說 90% 都是飛蚊症，所以以優質為基礎。因此，隨著 Prime 價格的上漲，我們會賺更多的錢，就像這樣——

There we go.

我們開始吧。

There we go. So it's a three- or four-months loan, and then CMHC comes down for the takeout typically. That's the reason we're doing these things.

我們開始吧。所以這是一筆三到四個月的貸款，然後 CMHC 通常會下來進行外賣。這就是我們做這些事情的原因。

Yeah. So to answer the first question, in terms of appetite, no, there -- these are loans we do with a very clear takeout, and it's a critical part of our origination strategy. And so no, there isn't a change to that appetite.

是的。因此，要回答第一個問題，就興趣而言，不，我們以非常明確的方式發放貸款，這是我們發起戰略的關鍵部分。所以不，這種胃口沒有改變。

Okay, great. Thank you.

好的，太好了。謝謝。

Jaeme Gloyn, National Bank Financial.

Jaeme Gloyn，國家銀行金融部門。

Yeah, thanks. Just wanted to follow up on the -- Hello? Can you hear me okay?

是的，謝謝。只是想跟進——餵？你能聽到我說話嗎？

We can, yeah.

我們可以，是的。

Just wanted to follow up on the funding mix in the quarter tilted more to institutional investors than maybe not. But not it's a crazy high number, but more than, let's say, like an average level. So that's a little bit surprising, I guess, given where mortgage spreads went. Is it just that mortgage spreads were not at the wides that were reported in MD&A for most of that quarter, and so it made institutional investor funding more attractive?

只是想跟進本季度的融資組合，更多地向機構投資者傾斜。但這並不是一個瘋狂的高數字，而是超過了平均水平。考慮到抵押貸款利差的走向，我想這有點令人驚訝。難道只是因為抵押貸款利差並未達到 MD&A 報告中該季度大部分時間的水平，因此使得機構投資者融資更具吸引力？

Just wanted to get a little bit more, I guess, color on that since we look at like $3 billion in Q1, $3 billion in Q2. Maybe we're going to come in a little bit low on the securitization side at at this pace relative to maybe what your capacity is around? I think $12 billion was what we, sort of, discussed in previous quarters,

我想只是想多了解一點，因為我們第一季度的收入約為 30 億美元，第二季度的收入約為 30 億美元。也許相對於你們的能力而言，以這樣的速度，我們在證券化方面的進展會有點低？我認為 120 億美元是我們在前幾個季度討論過的，

Right. So you're quite right. Through the majority of this year to date, spreads on mortgages, especially once you factor in the underlying cost of credit spreads and where you could actually fund them has been quite competitive. And more recent developments haven't yet been realized. I mean, most of the mortgages at these wider spreads are currently in our commitment pipeline. And we'll hopefully see the benefit of those as they flow through to the funded book in the third quarter.

正確的。所以你說得很對。今年迄今為止的大部分時間裡，抵押貸款利差一直相當有競爭力，特別是考慮到信貸利差的基本成本以及實際可以為它們提供資金的地方。而且最近的進展尚未實現。我的意思是，大多數價差較大的抵押貸款目前都在我們的承諾管道中。我們希望在第三季度將這些資金流向資助書籍時看到它們的好處。

And then in terms of our expectations, now we will be full utilizers of our capacity and CMHC securitization programs. So some of the activity you're seeing might be also a function of the fact that we're just ultimately managing towards our own securitization activity within those limitations.

然後就我們的期望而言，現在我們將充分利用我們的產能和 CMHC 證券化計劃。因此，您所看到的一些活動也可能是由於我們最終只是在這些限制內進行我們自己的證券化活動這一事實的結果。

Okay. So reading between the lines, maybe we'll see a step-up year over year in Q3 utilization of a securitization facilities or step-up even from Q1, Q2, if you're able to realize on some of these commitments?

好的。因此，從言外之意來看，如果您能夠兌現其中一些承諾，也許我們會看到第三季度證券化設施的利用率逐年上升，甚至從第一季度、第二季度開始也有所上升？

Right. Yeah. We -- I mean, the bottom line is we expect to fully utilize our CMHC securitization capacity.

正確的。是的。我們——我的意思是，底線是我們期望充分利用我們的 CMHC 證券化能力。

Good stuff. Thanks, guys.

好東西。多謝你們。

There are no other questions. I'd like to turn the conference back to Mr. Ellis for closing remarks.

沒有其他問題了。我想請埃利斯先生致閉幕詞。

Thank you, operator. We look forward to reporting our third-quarter results this fall. Thank you for taking part in our call, and have a good day.

謝謝你，接線員。我們期待今年秋天報告我們的第三季度業績。感謝您參加我們的通話，祝您有美好的一天。

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes your conference call for this morning. We would like to thank everyone for participating and ask you all to please disconnect your line.

女士們、先生們，今天上午的電話會議到此結束。我們感謝大家的參與，並請大家斷開線路。