FuboTV Inc (FUBO) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Thank you for standing by. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to today's Fubo fourth-quarter 2024 earnings call. (Operator Instructions)

感謝您的支持。現在，我歡迎大家參加今天的 Fubo 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。（操作員指令）

I'd now like to turn the call over to Ameet Padte, Senior Vice President of FP&A Corporate Development and Investor Relations. Ameet, please go ahead.

現在，我想將電話轉給 FP&A 企業發展和投資者關係高級副總裁 Ameet Padte。Ameet，請繼續。

Thank you for joining us to discuss Fubo's fourth-quarter and full-year 2024 results. With me today is David Gandler, Co-Founder and CEO of Fubo; and John Janedis, CFO of Fubo. Full details of our results and additional management commentary are available in our earnings release and letter to shareholders, which can be found on the Investor Relations section of our website at ir.fubo.tv.

感謝您加入我們討論 Fubo 2024 年第四季和全年業績。今天和我一起的是 Fubo 聯合創始人兼執行長 David Gandler；以及 Fubo 財務長 John Janedis。我們的業績詳情和額外的管理評論可在我們的收益報告和致股東信中找到，這些可在我們網站 ir.fubo.tv 的投資者關係部分找到。

Before we begin, let me quickly review the format of today's call. David will start with some brief remarks on the quarter and our business, and John will cover the financials and guidance. Then we will turn the call over to the analysts for Q&A.

在我們開始之前，讓我快速回顧一下今天電話會議的形式。David 將首先簡要介紹本季和我們的業務，John 將介紹財務和指引。然後我們將把電話轉給分析師進行問答。

I would like to remind everyone that the following discussion may contain forward-looking statements within the meaning of the federal securities laws, including but not limited to, statements regarding our financial condition, anticipated financial performance, business strategy and plans, including our pending business combination, industry and consumer trends, and expectations regarding growth and profitability. These forward-looking statements are subject to certain risks, uncertainties and assumptions.

我想提醒大家，以下討論可能包含聯邦證券法含義內的前瞻性陳述，包括但不限於有關我們的財務狀況、預期財務業績、業務戰略和計劃（包括我們即將進行的業務合併）、行業和消費者趨勢以及有關增長和盈利的預期的陳述。這些前瞻性陳述受某些風險、不確定性和假設的影響。

Important factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from forward-looking statements are discussed in our SEC filings, except as otherwise noted, the results and guidance we are presenting today are on a continuing operations basis, excluding the historical results of our former gaming segment, which are accounted for as discontinued operations.

我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中討論了可能導致實際結果與前瞻性陳述存在重大差異的重要因素，除非另有說明，我們今天介紹的結果和指引均以持續經營為基礎，不包括我們以前的遊戲部門的歷史業績，這些業績被視為已停止經營的業務。

During the call, we may also refer to certain non-GAAP financial measures. Reconciliations of these non-GAAP measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures are also available in our Q4 2024 earnings shareholder letter, which is available on our website at ir.fubo.tv.

在電話會議中，我們也可能參考某些非 GAAP 財務指標。這些非 GAAP 指標與最直接可比較的 GAAP 指標的對帳也可在我們的 2024 年第四季收益股東信中找到，該信可在我們的網站 ir.fubo.tv 上找到。

Please note as well that during Q&A, the company will not provide any information related to the business combination with Hulu + Live TV and ongoing regulatory matters beyond what we have already shared.

另請注意，在問答期間，本公司不會提供任何與 Hulu + Live TV 業務合併以及正在進行的監管事宜相關的信息，除非我們已經分享了這些信息。

With that, I will turn the call over to David.

說完這些，我會把電話轉給大衛。

Thank you, Ameet, and good morning, everyone. We appreciate you joining us today to discuss Fubo's fourth-quarter and full-year 2024 results. 2024 was a record year for the company. We delivered double-digit revenue growth in North America, closing the year just shy of $1.6 billion in total revenue, up 19% year over year.

謝謝你，Ameet，大家早安。感謝您今天加入我們，討論 Fubo 2024 年第四季和全年業績。 2024年是該公司創紀錄的一年。我們在北美實現了兩位數的營收成長，全年總收入略低於 16 億美元，年增 19%。

Paid subscribers in the region hit 1.676 million, up 4% year over year. Both full year metrics were all-time highs and in line with our guidance. In the fourth quarter, total revenue in North America was approximately $434 million, up 8% year over year, also in line with guidance. We delivered a record $87.90 of average revenue per user in the fourth quarter, marking an expansion of 1.4% year over year.

該地區付費用戶數量達167.6萬，年增4%。兩項全年指標均創歷史新高，符合我們的預期。第四季，北美地區總營收約4.34億美元，年增8%，也符合預期。我們在第四季度實現了創紀錄的每用戶平均收入 87.90 美元，年增 1.4%。

As we continue to drive towards our 2025 profitability goal, we improved full-year adjusted EBITDA and free cash flow by over $100 million for the second consecutive year. These results reflect our team's focused execution amidst an industry and disruption. Continuing with our strong operating performance into the new year, we have also fostered a more competitive environment, one that benefits the consumer.

隨著我們繼續努力實現 2025 年獲利目標，我們連續第二年將全年調整後 EBITDA 和自由現金流提高了 1 億美元以上。這些結果反映了我們的團隊在產業動盪中的專注執行。在新的一年裡，我們持續保持強勁的經營業績，同時也創造了一個更有利消費者的競爭環境。

In early January, we announced a definitive agreement with The Walt Disney Company to combine Hulu + Live TV and Fubo. Under the combination, both Fubo and Hulu + Live TV will operate as separate and distinct consumer brands under Fubo, which will continue to trade on the NYSE.

1 月初，我們宣布與華特迪士尼公司達成最終協議，合併 Hulu + Live TV 與 Fubo。合併後，Fubo 和 Hulu + Live TV 將作為 Fubo 旗下獨立且不同的消費品牌運營，Fubo 將繼續在紐約證券交易所交易。

Fubo's existing management team will continue to lead the company, and I will remain CEO. This combination will make Fubo the sixth largest player in the pay TV space by subscribers behind larger players that Comcast, Charter, DIRECTV, YouTube TV, and DISH Sling.

Fubo 現有的管理團隊將繼續領導公司，我仍將擔任執行長。這項合併將使 Fubo 成為付費電視領域第六大參與者（按訂閱用戶數計算），僅次於康卡斯特、Charter、DIRECTV、YouTube TV 和 DISH Sling 等大型參與者。

As a result, we anticipate the ability to offer more competitive offerings at more competitive price points. We are making significant progress on our plan to provide consumers with greater choice, offering multiple flexible options that enable them to tailor their streaming experience to their needs. These include Fubo, our existing sports-focused bundle where consumers come for the sports but stay for the entertainment.

因此，我們期望能夠以更具競爭力的價格提供更具競爭力的產品。我們的計劃正在取得重大進展，旨在為消費者提供更多選擇，提供多種靈活的選項，使他們能夠根據自己的需求量身定制串流體驗。其中包括 Fubo，這是我們現有的以體育為重點的套餐，消費者來這裡是為了觀看體育比賽，但留下來是為了娛樂。

Hulu + Live TV and entertainment focused bundle and a forthcoming entirely new sports and broadcasting service. This new sports and broadcasting service will feature a robust lineup of their favorite pro and college sports. We intend to launch this service for the fall sports season, and it is independent of the Hulu + Live TV transaction.

Hulu + 專注於直播電視和娛樂的捆綁套餐以及即將推出的全新體育和廣播服務。這項新的體育和廣播服務將推出一系列他們最喜歡的職業和大學體育賽事。我們打算在秋季體育賽季推出這項服務，它獨立於 Hulu + Live TV 交易。

Fubo has always envisioned a fair streaming marketplace with the consumer at its core. We are excited to have helped lead an industry shift to more consumer-friendly skinny sports bundles. This was most recently demonstrated by Comcast and DIRECTV's new sports-focused content offering. Our forthcoming skinny sports and broadcasting service will offer even more consumer-friendly bundles in a competitive industry, as we have consistently asserted the consumer always wins.

Fubo 一直致力於建立一個以消費者為核心的公平的串流媒體市場。我們很高興能夠幫助引領業界轉向更消費者友善的精瘦運動套裝。康卡斯特和 DIRECTV 最近推出的以體育為重點的新內容就充分證明了這一點。我們即將推出的精簡體育和廣播服務將在競爭激烈的行業中提供更消費者友好的套餐，正如我們一直堅稱的消費者永遠是贏家。

Fubo is not limiting skinny bundles only to sports programming. Sports is a unifier across our diverse country, and we want to ensure we supplement this content with other types of focused programming that appeal to many different communities.

Fubo 不會將精簡套餐僅限於體育節目。體育是我們這個多元化國家之間的凝聚力，我們希望確保透過其他類型的重點節目來補充這一內容，以吸引不同的社區。

To that end, last week, we launched a Zee Family bundle of 18 linear channels serving the South Asian demographic. Zee Family can be purchased as a standalone bundle or as an add-on to one of our more robust channel plans.

為此，我們上週推出了 Zee Family 套餐，其中包含 18 個線性頻道，服務南亞人群。Zee Family 可以作為獨立套裝購買，也可以作為我們更強大的頻道計劃之一的附加組件購買。

We believe multicultural programming can be a strong growth segment for us, and we plan to launch additional bundles this year. These standalone smaller bundles fit our super aggregation strategy of delivering multiple and flexible streaming packages at every point along the demand curve from free to skinny to the full content bundle.

我們相信多元文化節目可以成為我們一個強勁的成長領域，我們計劃今年推出更多的套餐。這些獨立的小型捆綁包符合我們的超級聚合策略，即在需求曲線的每個點上（從免費到精簡再到完整內容捆綁包）提供多個靈活的串流媒體包。

These tiers must be appropriately priced and deliver value to our subscribers. That is why we will only enter into content distribution agreements with programmers when it makes sense for our subscribers. The decision not to renew our long-standing agreement with Univision was the only choice based on the significant rate increases Univision demanded, costs that would have been passed on to our subscribers.

這些層級必須定價合理，並為我們的訂閱者帶來價值。這就是為什麼我們只會在對我們的訂閱者有意義的情況下才與程式設計師簽訂內容分發協議。我們決定不再與 Univision 續簽長期協議，這是基於 Univision 要求大幅提高費率而做出的唯一選擇，而這些成本將會轉嫁給我們的用戶。

Instead, we are taking a different approach. We lowered the price of our Latino plan by 55% and to deliver greater value to our customers. This is the first time we are aware that any streaming service has shared with consumers cost savings beyond temporary credits. Moving forward, we plan to replace Univision programming over time with other high-quality sports content that better aligns with our commitment to flexibility and affordability.

相反，我們採取了不同的方法。我們將拉丁裔計畫的價格降低了 55%，為客戶提供更大的價值。這是我們第一次了解到串流媒體服務與消費者分享臨時信用之外的成本節省。展望未來，我們計劃逐步以其他高品質的體育內容取代 Univision 的節目，以更好地符合我們對靈活性和可負擔性的承諾。

In closing, 2024 was a pivotal year for Fubo, marked by strong revenue and overall subscriber growth along with meaningful improvements to our bottom line. We could not be more excited for the many opportunities ahead.

最後，2024 年對 Fubo 來說是關鍵的一年，其特點是營收強勁、整體用戶成長以及獲利能力顯著提升。我們對未來的眾多機會感到無比興奮。

We believe the opportunity to create a more competitive player in the pay TV market, combined with a secular streaming tailwind could position us to drive significant value for all our stakeholders, consumers, media partners, and shareholders alike. We look forward to keeping you updated on our latest developments.

我們相信，在付費電視市場創造更具競爭力的參與者的機會，加上長期的串流順風，可以讓我們為所有利害關係人、消費者、媒體合作夥伴和股東創造巨大價值。我們期待向您通報我們的最新動態。

I will now turn the call over to John Janedis, CFO, to discuss our financial results in greater detail. John?

現在，我將把電話轉給財務長約翰‧詹迪斯 (John Janedis)，更詳細地討論我們的財務表現。約翰？

Thank you, David, and good morning, everyone. Our fourth-quarter and full-year 2024 results highlights Fubo's continued execution of our long-term strategy, maximizing our aggregated content platforms, and made a fluid media landscape and evolving consumer trends. This progress is reflected across just about every financial and operational metric validating our initiatives and positioning Fubo for success in a dynamic and evolving operating landscape.

謝謝你，大衛，大家早安。我們的 2024 年第四季和全年業績凸顯了 Fubo 持續執行我們的長期策略，最大限度地發揮我們的聚合內容平台，並創造流暢的媒體格局和不斷發展的消費者趨勢。這項進展反映在幾乎每個財務和營運指標中，驗證了我們的舉措，並使 Fubo 在動態和不斷發展的營運環境中取得成功。

Taking a look at the results for the quarter, we continued to see a healthy top line growth with North America revenue growth of 8% and rest of revenue growth of 12%. The primary drivers behind this continued growth in North America have been our ability to attract, retain, and monetize subscribers. To that end, I am pleased to report North America subscriber growth of 4%, ending the quarter with 1.676 million subscribers and the rest of our subscribers of 362,000.

縱觀本季的業績，我們繼續看到健康的營收成長，其中北美收入成長 8%，其他區域收入成長 12%。北美持續成長的主要驅動力是我們吸引、留住用戶並從中獲利的能力。為此，我很高興地報告北美用戶成長了 4%，本季末用戶總數為 167.6 萬，其餘用戶總數為 362,000 名。

With respect to monetization, we attained all-time high ARPU in both markets with North America ARPU of $87.90 and the Rest of World ARPU of $8.50. From an advertising standpoint, we delivered global ad revenue of $34.4 million, an 11.8% decline year over year. This was primarily due to a decline in ad insertable content as a result of our content portfolio adjustments in 2024.

在貨幣化方面，我們在兩個市場都實現了歷史最高的 ARPU，其中北美的 ARPU 為 87.90 美元，世界其他地區的 ARPU 為 8.50 美元。從廣告角度來看，我們的全球廣告收入為 3,440 萬美元，年減 11.8%。這主要是因為我們在 2024 年調整了內容組合，導致可插入廣告內容減少。

Taking a look at the operational side of the business, our laser focus on improving efficiency while expanding top-line growth is reflected in our continued progress on our profitability metrics. In Q4, net loss improved to $40.9 million compared to a net loss of $71 million in Q4 2023.

從業務營運方面來看，我們專注於提高效率，同時擴大營收成長，這反映在我們獲利能力指標的持續進步上。第四季淨虧損從 2023 年第四季的 7,100 萬美元改善至 4,090 萬美元。

Adjusted EBITDA loss was $8.7 million comparing favorably to a loss of $50.1 million in the fourth quarter of 2023. Adjusted EPS loss was $0.02, an improvement compared to an adjusted EPS loss of $0.18 in Q4 2023.

調整後 EBITDA 虧損為 870 萬美元，較 2023 年第四季的 5,010 萬美元虧損有所改善。調整後每股虧損為 0.02 美元，較 2023 年第四季調整後每股虧損 0.18 美元有所改善。

Turning to cash. I am excited to report that the business generated free cash flow of positive $16.3 million, a $22.1 million improvement year over year. This marks a significant milestone. I am happy to share that this was Fubo's first quarter of positive free cash flow and underscores our commitment to financial discipline, cost management, and sustainable growth. We are encouraged by this progress and remain dedicated to further enhancing our financial performance in the quarters ahead.

轉向現金。我很高興地報告，該業務產生的自由現金流為正 1,630 萬美元，比去年同期增加了 2,210 萬美元。這是一個重要的里程碑。我很高興地告訴大家，這是 Fubo 第一個實現正自由現金流的季度，這突顯了我們對財務紀律、成本管理和永續成長的承諾。這項進展令我們感到鼓舞，我們將繼續致力於在未來幾季進一步提高我們的財務表現。

Moving to the balance sheet and cash flow. We ended the quarter with $167.6 million of cash, cash equivalents, and restricted cash, up by $15.3 million from $152.3 million at the end of the third quarter. Note that this does not include the cash payments associated with our recently announced settlement, which took place in January 2025, and we did not access the capital markets.

轉向資產負債表和現金流量。本季末，我們的現金、現金等價物和受限現金為 1.676 億美元，較第三季末的 1.523 億美元增加了 1,530 萬美元。請注意，這不包括我們最近宣布的 2025 年 1 月達成的和解相關的現金支付，我們也沒有進入資本市場。

In summary, our financial results highlight the significant progress we have made across the business. We believe our current trajectory demonstrates both our potential and our resilience. Furthermore, we are confident that our liquidity will sufficiently support investments in the core business and execute on broader strategic endeavors.

總而言之，我們的財務表現凸顯了我們在整個業務中取得的重大進展。我們相信，我們目前的發展軌跡彰顯了我們的潛力和韌性。此外，我們相信我們的流動性將足以支持對核心業務的投資並執行更廣泛的策略努力。

Turning to guidance. Our first quarter North America subscriber guidance is 1.430 million to 1.460 million subscribers, representing a 4% year-over-year decline at the midpoint while our first quarter revenue guidance projects $400 million to $410 million, representing 3% year-over-year growth at the midpoint. Note that this outlook reflects the expected potential subscriber impact of our recent nonrenewal with Univision.

轉向指導。我們對第一季北美用戶數量的預期為 143 萬至 146 萬，中位數為年減 4%，而我們對第一季營收的預期為 4 億至 4.1 億美元，中位數為年增 3%。請注意，該前景反映了我們最近與 Univision 不再續約對預期潛在用戶的影響。

Regarding rest of the world, we expect 330,000 to 340,000 subscribers in the first quarter representing a 16% year-over year decline at the midpoint, while our revenue guidance projects $7.5 million to $8.5 million, representing a 5% year-over-year decline at the midpoint. This guidance reflects our current expected exposure to potential industry volatility and our commitment to maintaining discipline in subscriber acquisition costs relative to monetization.

對於世界其他地區，我們預計第一季用戶數量為 33 萬至 34 萬，中位數較上年同期下降 16%，而我們的營收預期為 750 萬至 850 萬美元，中位數較上年同期下降 5%。該指引反映了我們目前預期的潛在產業波動風險，以及我們對維持與貨幣化相關的用戶獲取成本紀律的承諾。

In closing, I am pleased with our results. Fubo enters 2025 with strong momentum and significant improvements across nearly every aspect of our business as we drive towards profitability. We anticipate continued top line growth in both revenue and subscribers, along with continued efficiency in our cost structure. We believe that a sports-first live TV streaming model offers significant consumer value and we are dedicated to championing the consumer by redefining the future of live sports streaming.

最後，我對我們的結果感到滿意。Fubo 將以強勁的發展勢頭邁入 2025 年，在努力實現盈利的過程中，幾乎我們業務的每個方面都取得了顯著的改善。我們預期收入和用戶數量將持續成長，同時成本結構也將持續有效率。我們相信，以體育為先的電視直播串流模式將為消費者帶來巨大的價值，我們致力於透過重新定義體育直播串流媒體的未來來維護消費者的利益。

I would now like to turn the call over to the operator for Q&A.

現在我想將電話轉給接線員進行問答。

(Operator Instructions) David Joyce, Seaport Research Partners.

（操作員指示）大衛喬伊斯（David Joyce），海港研究合作夥伴。

With your pending Disney relationship and with Disney's ESPN possibly opting out of Major League Baseball after next year, what is the opportunity for Fubo going forward with those rights? Is that something that could fit into your strategy somehow? And related to that, how would you manage any type of programming conflicts between the ESP and flagship or the offerings when they're still going to be partner with you on the reversal MVPDs?

由於您與迪士尼的關係尚未確定，而且迪士尼的 ESPN 可能在明年之後退出美國職棒大聯盟，Fubo 在未來獲得這些權利的機會有多大？這是否可以以某種方式適應你的策略？與此相關，當他們仍與您合作製作逆轉 MVPD 時，您將如何處理 ESP 與旗艦或產品之間的任何類型的程式設計衝突？

Yeah. Thank you. Why don't I take this one, John. So obviously, we attempt to partner with all of the programmers out in the market and as well as the league. So we have a relationship with Major League Baseball.

是的。謝謝。我為什麼不接受這個呢，約翰。因此顯然，我們嘗試與市場上的所有程式設計師以及聯盟合作。所以，我們與美國職棒大聯盟有合作關係。

But I think the primary goal is to continue distributing live channels. So should Major League Baseball decide to go in that direction as it did managing some of the local sports teams such as The Padres, we will certainly look to figure out a way to work together.

但我認為主要目標是繼續分發直播頻道。因此，如果美國職棒大聯盟決定朝這個方向發展，就像它管理教士隊等一些地方運動隊一樣，我們肯定會尋找一種合作的方式。

And then as for the second part of your question, we don't really see any issues at all with Disney. We're continuing to run our business in the ordinary course. We have a relationship. We have a licensing distribution deal with them and that deal is over multiple years, and we'll continue to distribute Disney channels for the contract.

至於你問題的第二部分，我們確實沒有發現迪士尼有任何問題。我們將繼續正常經營業務。我們有關係。我們與他們簽訂了許可分銷協議，該協議為期多年，我們將繼續根據合約分銷迪士尼頻道。

Patrick Sholl, Barrington Research.

巴林頓研究公司的 Patrick Sholl

I was just wondering if you can talk about like maybe the relative pricing and content costs for, I guess, the core Fubo service and the broadcast and sports service. Are you just within their or offering the relative importance of those networks and the potential for, I guess, the higher cost assigned there?

我只是想知道您是否可以談談核心 Fubo 服務和廣播和體育服務的相對定價和內容成本。您是否只是在它們之內或提供這些網路的相對重要性以及在那裡分配更高成本的潛力？

Hi, Patrick. It's John. Maybe I'll start. On the pricing, look, I would say it's too soon to get specific, but I think it's fair to say that the difference will be significant on a percentage basis. And as we look to what potential subscribers are looking for, I think we have another opportunity to reach them along the demand curve. So I do think it should widen the funnel for us.

你好，派崔克。是約翰。也許我會開始。關於定價，我想說現在具體討論還為時過早，但我認為可以公平地說，從百分比來看，差異會很大。當我們了解潛在用戶的需求時，我認為我們還有另一個機會沿著需求曲線接觸到他們。因此我確實認為它應該能拓寬我們的管道。

Is there a second part? I may miss the second part of the question. Was that on programming costs or?

有第二部嗎？我可能錯過了問題的第二部分。那是程式成本嗎？

Yeah, programming costs.

是的，程式設計需要成本。

Yeah. Look, on route programming cost, there's certainly going to be lower, but I would just say give us another quarter or two to give you more context around that as we kind of get deeper into the offering.

是的。你看，路線編程成本肯定會更低，但我只想說再給我們一兩個季度的時間，以便在我們對產品的深入了解之後為您提供更多有關這方面的背景信息。

Okay. And then just on the subscriber guidance that you provided, is it -- is that -- are the sub losses year-over-year mostly within the Fubo Latino offering? Or is that more broad-based in terms of the kind of challenge as a result of the programming shift?

好的。然後，就您提供的使用者指導而言，使用者同比下降是否主要集中在 Fubo Latino 產品上？或者從程式轉變所帶來的挑戰而言，這是否具有更廣泛的意義？

Yeah. Let me unpack that for you a bit. And so for the first quarter, subscribers on a year-over-year basis, we would have expected to grow subscribers when adjusting for the impact of Univision. And so to give you a ballpark figure, growth could be in, say, the mid-single digits similar to, I'd say, slightly better than the 4% year-over-year growth that we reported in the fourth quarter.

是的。讓我為你稍微解釋一下。因此，就第一季而言，與去年同期相比，我們預計在調整 Univision 的影響後，用戶數量將會增加。因此，給出一個大概的數字，成長率可能在中等個位數左右，我想說，略高於我們在第四季度報告的 4% 的同比增長率。

And let me also just take a step back and unpack it a bit more because as you know, there is seasonality to our business. And meaning we typically see a decline in SMS on a sequential basis in the first half of the year, and then growth in the second half of the year. And so again, I think we feel pretty good about the trajectory for Q1 ex Univision.

讓我再回顧一下，進一步解釋這個問題，因為如你所知，我們的業務具有季節性。這意味著我們通常會看到上半年簡訊數量較上季下降，而下半年則會成長。因此，我再次認為，我們對 Univision 第一季的走勢非常滿意。

In terms of the overall year, I would tell you that we expect growth in subscribers with over that Univision.

就全年而言，我想說的是，我們預計用戶數量將超過 Univision。

Laura Martin, Needham.

勞拉·馬丁，尼德姆。

The first one is on the Zee Family is sort of an interesting sort of pivot away from sports for you guys. Do you see that as mostly an upsell opportunity for existing subs? Or do you think that could be a whole new TAM for you? And if so, how big could that be as an onboarding process to new subscribers that maybe would have been additive to the sports-focused subscribers?

第一個是關於 Zee 家族的，對你們來說，這是一個有趣的遠離運動的轉變。您是否認為這對現有訂閱者來說主要是一次追加銷售的機會？或者您認為這對您來說可能是一個全新的 TAM？如果確實如此，那麼這對於新訂閱者的入職流程有多大幫助，對於體育類訂閱者來說可能有多大幫助？

Laura, this is David. Look, I wouldn't say we're moving away from sports not at all. I think we announced last year the addition of Cricket to our sports offering. And so this was a natural extension. As John just stated, our goal is really to attract customers along the demand curve. This expands our funnel and also fits very well with our super aggregation strategy.

蘿拉，這是大衛。瞧，我不會說我們正在遠離體育運動。我記得我們去年就宣布將板球加入我們的運動項目當中。所以這是一個自然的延伸。正如約翰剛才所說，我們的目標實際上是沿著需求曲線吸引客戶。這擴大了我們的管道也非常契合我們的超聚合策略。

So we want to provide slimmer bundles of programming. And the way we've been sort of developing our product, we think that we're going to have some very interesting capabilities around upselling consumers once we get them in.

因此我們希望提供更精簡的程式包。我們認為，按照我們開發產品的方式，一旦我們吸引到消費者，我們將擁有一些非常有趣的追加銷售能力。

And I think over the years, we've built an excellent trap on the platform where we've attracted customers through sports and have been able to drive monetization through entertainment. This is similar in strategy. So what we're excited to sort of test that out, potentially there could be lower acquisition costs, better retention.

我認為多年來，我們在平台上建立了一個絕佳的陷阱，透過運動吸引客戶，並能夠透過娛樂來實現盈利。這在策略上是類似的。因此，我們很高興能夠進行測試，結果可能會降低收購成本，提高保留率。

And overall, we're very happy with where we are today. The business is significantly healthier than it's ever been.

總的來說，我們對目前的狀況非常滿意。目前的業務狀況比以前明顯更健康。

And Laura, I would just add one thing on that, is we're weak and I would say we're happy with what we're seeing in terms of that packaging.

勞拉，我只想補充一點，我們很弱，但我想說的是，我們對所看到的包裝感到滿意。

Okay. And is it different subscribers or upsell to existing subscribers?

好的。這是針對不同的訂閱者還是針對現有訂閱者的追加銷售？

I think it's too soon to tell. I think it would be largely an upsell or a different set of subscribers.

我認為現在說還為時過早。我認為這在很大程度上是一種追加銷售或一組不同的訂閱者。

Okay. And then can we drill down on advertising a little bit really, you had these intriguing words in the press release talking about you expanded your suite of ad formats with dynamic. And could you talk about what's going on with advertising and how you the advertising unfolding in 2025?

好的。然後我們能否深入探討一下廣告，您在新聞稿中使用了這些有趣的字詞來談論您透過動態擴展了您的廣告格式套件。您能談談廣告業現在的情況以及 2025 年廣告業將如何發展嗎？

Is there CPM pressure in your world downward CPM pressure? And could you just sort of drill down into the efforts going on with the advertising a piece in fourth quarter and into the first quarter here, of '25?

您的世界中是否存在 CPM 壓力？向下的 CPM 壓力是什麼？您能否深入了解 2025 年第四季和第一季在廣告​​上所做的努力？

Yeah. Sure, Laura. I'll start. Look, on the fourth quarter, I would say results were impacted by both the drop of Discovery and Univision. And so I'd say adjusting for those, we performed, I'd say, likely more so in line with the broader marketplace. But in terms of what we saw during the quarter, I would say our direct business was up double digits and as you'd expect, led by the sports vertical.

是的。當然，勞拉。我先開始。從第四季來看，我認為業績受到了探索頻道和聯合電視網下滑的影響。因此，我想說，經過這些調整後，我們的表現可能會更符合更廣泛的市場。但就我們本季的表現而言，我想說我們的直接業務成長了兩位數，正如你所預料的那樣，體育垂直業務是我們的主導。

On the pricing front, I would say that sports remain healthy on pricing and sell out, but we are seeing some relative weakness or softness in entertainment as it relates to CPMs. I would say, anecdotally, we did see some uncertainty in the market post the election, I say that continued into the first quarter. heading into March, I'd say our team feels like the tone has improved somewhat.

在定價方面，我想說體育賽事的定價仍然健康且門票銷售一空，但我們看到娛樂賽事在與 CPM 相關的方面相對疲軟。我想說，從傳聞來看，我們確實看到大選後市場存在一些不確定性，而且這種情況一直持續到第一季。進入三月，我想說我們團隊的感覺基調已經有所改善。

So from a growth perspective, I'd say March should look better than February. And maybe at least directionally, although it's early, we're starting to see some good early interest as it relates to the 2025 upfront.

因此，從成長角度來看，我認為三月應該比二月更好。並且至少從方向上看，儘管還為時過早，但我們已經開始看到一些與 2025 年預付款相關的良好早期興趣。

Clark Lampen, BTIG.

克拉克·蘭彭（Clark Lampen），BTIG。

I just had one. John, you were talking about mid-single-digit growth for Q1 and 4Q not being very different. I know there were some headwinds from Univision and Discovery throughout the year. But if we sort of pull back and take a bigger picture view of your growth relative to industry, we've seen a deceleration over the last two years in both. And I'm curious, one, if you and David could sort of provide some thoughts around the slowdown sort of what's happening?

我剛剛吃了一個。約翰，您說的是第一季和第四季的中等個位數成長率並沒有太大差別。我知道今年全年來自環球電視網和探索頻道的阻力很大。但如果我們退一步，從更大的角度來看待相對於產業的成長，我們會發現過去兩年來，這兩個領域的成長都出現了減速。我很好奇，第一，您和戴維能否就經濟放緩的問題談談自己的看法？

Are we hitting perhaps the bedrock level of sports enthusiasts and traditional cable? Or maybe more importantly, what are the avenues for sort of reaccelerating the migration rate as we go forward? Do we need price and package adjustments? And if so, how do you guys think about being able to offer something sort of different and better later in the year?

我們是否達到了體育愛好者和傳統有線電視的基石水準？或者更重要的是，我們今後有哪些途徑可以重新加快移民速度？我們需要調整價格和套餐嗎？如果是這樣，你們覺得在今年稍後能夠提供一些不同且更好的東西嗎？

Yeah. Sorry, there was a lot in that question. So let me see if I can break that down a little bit. So in terms of the deceleration, I think the United States is a relatively mature market. You have about 70 million households between traditional pay TV and virtual, of which, I would say, the traditional side probably represents around $50 million or so. So for us, we still think that there's pretty significant growth.

是的。抱歉，這個問題內容太多了。那麼讓我看看是否能將其分解一點。因此就減速而言，我認為美國是一個相對成熟的市場。傳統付費電視和虛擬付費電視共有約 7,000 萬個家庭，其中，我認為傳統付費電視的收入大概在 5,000 萬美元左右。因此對我們來說，我們仍然認為成長相當顯著。

The streaming side, the SVOD side of the business, I think, is also maturing, which I think bodes well for Fubo and the virtual MVPD space in general. There is still a strong secular tailwind of consumers moving from traditional cable to streaming.

我認為，串流媒體方面、SVOD 業務方面也正在日趨成熟，這對 Fubo 以及整個虛擬 MVPD 領域來說是個好兆頭。消費者從傳統有線電視轉向串流媒體的長期趨勢仍然強勁。

But what I think has changed a dramatically over the last 24 months is the number of ad-supported services coming out of the likes of Netflix and other SVOD services. So what I think has happened is over the last four or five years, we've seen sort of an escalation of about 7% growth, or I should say, cost or pricing from these SVOD services, which is almost in line with the type of escalators that we've seen over the last five or six years in the virtual MVPD space.

但我認為，過去 24 個月中發生了巨大變化的是 Netflix 和其他 SVOD 服務等推出的廣告支援服務的數量。所以我認為在過去四、五年發生的情況是，我們看到這些 SVOD 服務的成本或定價成長了約 7%，這幾乎與我們在過去五、六年在虛擬 MVPD 領域看到的成長類型一致。

But our product is becoming more competitive. There's fewer programming, TV shows or I think they're more spares on SVOD services. Our programming, we continue to maintain about 100 or so hours of viewership. So I think it's just a more competitive product. And we've done an excellent job getting people to convert.

但我們的產品正變得更具競爭力。我認為 SVOD 服務上的節目和電視節目較少，或者說備用節目較多。我們的節目持續保持著大約100小時左右的收視率。所以我認為這只是一種更具競爭力的產品。我們在讓人們轉變方面做得非常出色。

You may have also noticed, we've reduced our marketing spend as a percentage of revenue over the last couple of years. And so we've really been focused on ensuring that we have a healthy business. And fourth-quarter cash flow clearly highlights the fact that we are still on track to deliver 2025, as we said back then. But I think people probably have a much harder time now deciding whether they should go to an SVOD service or look at a pay TV platform or streaming TV platform like Fubo.

您可能還注意到，過去幾年來，我們已經降低了行銷支出佔收入的百分比。因此，我們一直致力於確保我們的業務健康發展。第四季的現金流清楚地表明，我們仍然有望實現 2025 年的目標，正如我們當時所說的那樣。但我認為人們現在可能很難決定是否應該使用 SVOD 服務還是付費電視平台或串流媒體電視平台（如 Fubo）。

Ultimately, when you aggregate the cost of three or four of these services without ad products, you're getting into the sort of $100 price point. So I think over time, we're going to be a little bit more competitive with those services.

最終，當你將三到四種此類服務的費用加起來（不含廣告產品）時，價格就會達到 100 美元左右。因此我認為隨著時間的推移，我們在這些服務方面的競爭力將會增強。

And as I said in my opening comments, this an aggregated streaming service probably provides the best value for consumers, it provides the best value for media companies, and it allows us to maintain lower churn, it allows media companies to reduce the amount of marketing their spending and allows everybody to take advantage of sparse hits from each of these different media providers.

正如我在開場白中所說，這種聚合串流媒體服務可能為消費者提供了最佳價值，也為媒體公司提供了最佳價值，它使我們能夠保持較低的客戶流失率，使媒體公司能夠減少行銷支出，並允許每個人利用來自不同媒體提供商的零星點擊量。

Yeah. And Clark, I would just add one thing on top of what David said, at least on the packaging side, we actually rolled out two new packages in the fourth quarter, both lower priced, and we're very pleased with what we've seen over the -- I guess, the first two or three months of having them in the marketplace.

是的。克拉克，除了大衛所說的，我還要補充一點，至少在包裝方面，我們實際上在第四季度推出了兩種新的包裝，價格都較低，而且我們對它們在市場上推出後的前兩三個月的表現感到非常滿意。

You guys had all of that sort of eight-part question that I published before, but just to make sure that I'm clear on sort of what you guys think is the sort of differentiator what, I guess, is resonating with the market. It's filling gaps essentially in sort of important sports and as you guys put a broadcast programming at a better price point. Is that -- am I oversimplifying? Or do I have that right, I guess, in how you guys think about the go-to-market?

你們都有我之前發布過的八個部分的問題，但只是為了確保我清楚你們認為的差異化因素是什麼，我想，這會引起市場的共鳴。它本質上填補了重要體育賽事的空白，並以更優惠的價格提供了廣播節目。是的──我是不是把事情過於簡化了？或者我猜，我對你們如何看待進入市場的看法是正確的？

Yeah, I would say that's about 80%. I think the other 20% probably lies in the fact that we continue to improve our product. We continue to add additional features. Frankly, some features, one feature in particular, has really taken off similar. It might actually have the same impact as Multiview had on the industry, which is our team channels capability, which is our in-house developed AI feature that seems to have really picked up traction in the hundreds of thousands of users relatively quickly.

是的，我想大概是 80%。我認為剩下的 20% 可能在於我們不斷改進我們的產品。我們將繼續添加更多功能。坦白說，一些功能，特別是某個功能，確實很相似。它實際上可能具有與 Multiview 對行業產生相同的影響，即我們的團隊管道能力，這是我們內部開發的 AI 功能，似乎確實相對較快地在數十萬用戶中獲得了關注。

So we think we're going to continue to develop our product. And obviously, as you said, fill in the gaps with more flexibility, better options. And as we renegotiate our deals and the market becomes accustomed to ensuring that the virtual MVPD space can drive value for them, we think we'll be able to create more value for consumers over time.

因此我們認為我們將繼續開發我們的產品。顯然，正如您所說，需要透過更靈活、更好的選擇來填補空白。隨著我們重新協商交易並且市場逐漸習慣於確保虛擬 MVPD 空間能夠為他們創造價值，我們認為我們將能夠隨著時間的推移為消費者創造更多價值。

Nik Aluru, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的 Nik Aluru。

So I believe this would be the first kind of seasonal roll-off quarter where you have the Fubo free tier active. So can you discuss any early insights there and how that's worked as a retention tool? And longer term, if you have any update to your thinking if you would move the free tier in front of the paywall at some point?

因此我相信這將是第一個季節性滾動季度，屆時您將可以享受 Fubo 免費套餐。那麼您能討論一下早期的見解以及它如何作為保留工具發揮作用嗎？從長遠來看，您是否有任何更新的想法，是否會在某個時候將免費套餐移到付費牆前面？

Yeah. I think the one major point that we've seen through the free tier is the improved reactivation rates. Frankly, I think if you exclude the December COVID month, I think December was our best retention month in the history of the company.

是的。我認為我們透過免費套餐看到的一個主要點是重新激活率的提高。坦白說，我認為如果不包括 12 月的新冠疫情月份，12 月是我們公司歷史上留存率最高的月份。

So we're continuing to work on the different tiers that we have. And obviously, we're starting to feel pretty good about where we are. Payback periods are coming down. Retention is improving, which, by the way, not an easy task when you remove a significant number of channels from the platform in a very short period of time.

因此，我們將繼續致力於我們現有的不同層級的工作。顯然，我們開始對自己的現狀感到十分滿意。投資回收期正在縮短。保留率正在提高，順便說一句，當你在很短的時間內從平台上刪除大量頻道時，這不是一項容易的任務。

So again, we're very excited about the future, and we think we're well positioned for growth when we're ready. But as John said, it's really about sustainable growth going forward.

所以，我們再次對未來感到非常興奮，我們認為，當我們做好準備時，我們就有能力實現成長。但正如約翰所說，這實際上關係到未來的可持續成長。

Understood. Thanks. And one more, if I could, just unpacking the 1Q guide. You talked about the Univision impact. But was there any kind of material benefit maybe on a subscriber acquisition front related to the MSG Network's blackout at Optimum?

明白了。謝謝。如果可以的話，我還想再解釋一下 1Q 指南。您談到了 Univision 的影響。但是，MSG 網路在 Optimum 的停播在用戶獲取方面是否會帶來任何實質利益？

Yeah, Nik, this is John. I'll take that. I believe that was a Q1 event, not a Q4 event in terms of when that block had occurred. I would tell you that anecdotally, we've seen a modest benefit. But now that that's back on, we'll see how much in terms of that has (inaudible) or not. But I'd say we saw a modest improvement or benefit in Q1.

是的，尼克，這是約翰。我接受。我認為，從發生封鎖的時間來看，那是 Q1 事件，而不是 Q4 事件。我想告訴你，從軼事來看，我們已經看到了適度的好處。但現在又回到了這個問題上，我們會看看這方面有多少（聽不清楚）。但我想說，我們在第一季看到了適度的改善或收益。

Doug Arthur, Huber Research.

道格·亞瑟（Doug Arthur），Huber Research。

Yeah. Just a quickie. John, on the operating expenses, there were some dips and doodles in terms of the categories, like G&A was down a lot. Was there a -- I haven't been through every document here. Is there anything unusual, particularly in that line in the quarter?

是的。只是匆匆一瞥。約翰，就營業費用而言，各類別都出現了一些下降和波動，例如一般行政費用 (G&A) 下降了很多。有沒有——我還沒看過這裡的每一份文件。有什麼不尋常的事情嗎，特別是在本季的那條線上？

Yeah, Doug, thanks for the question. So to your point, on that line item, there are some Internet. I would tell you that call it on a run rate basis, it's probably more like a low double-digit million type of number for 2025 and so maybe there is a few million dollars in that benefit in the fourth quarter.

是的，道格，謝謝你的提問。因此，正如您所說，在那一項上，有一些互聯網。我想告訴你，以運行率計算，到 2025 年，這個數字可能更像是幾百萬，所以第四季的收益可能有幾百萬美元。

To David's comment before, I would just add that if we look at the other cost buckets, we saw an absolute improvement, if you will, year-over-year on a dollar basis. I think across both marketing, we would have seen that in tech and dev if not for some capitalized costs, and we also see that in [BPT]. So the operating leverage continues to be moving in the right direction.

對於大衛之前的評論，我只想補充一點，如果我們看看其他成本領域，我們會看到絕對的改善，如果你願意的話，同比美元計算。我認為，在行銷方面，如果不是因為一些資本化成本，我們就會在技術和開發方面看到這種情況，我們也看到[BPT]。因此，經營槓桿持續朝著正確的方向發展。

And I would just add, not that you mentioned this, but since you're talking about the expenses, I would like to say that from a broader perspective, look, the team has been hyper-focused on balancing our investment in the business and reaching those cash flow targets.

我只想補充一點，雖然您沒有提到這一點，但既然您談到了費用，我想說，從更廣泛的角度來看，團隊一直高度專注於平衡我們對業務的投資並實現那些現金流目標。

And so our incremental adjusted EBITDA margins were call it, 34% in '23 and then 45% in '24. And so I do think, even with the ins and outs, the incremental margins on the business and cash flow improvements are still very significant.

因此，我們的增量調整後 EBITDA 利潤率在 23 年為 34%，在 24 年為 45%。因此我確實認為，即使存在各種因素，業務利潤增量和現金流改善仍然非常顯著。

And that concludes our Q&A session. That also concludes our call today. Thank you all for joining, and you may now disconnect. Have a great day, everyone.

我們的問答環節到此結束。今天的通話到此結束。感謝大家加入，現在可以斷開連線了。祝大家有個愉快的一天。