Fuel Tech Inc (FTEK) 2024 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to the Fuel Tech Inc. Second Quarter 2024 Financial Results Conference Call. (Operator Instructions)

您好，歡迎參加 Fuel Tech Inc. 2024 年第二季財務業績電話會議。（操作員說明）

It is now my pleasure to introduce your host, Devin Sullivan, Managing Director of The Equity Group. Please proceed.

現在我很高興向您介紹主持人，德文·沙利文 (Devin Sullivan)，他是 The Equity Group 的董事總經理。請繼續。

Thank you, Latania. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us today for Fuel Tech's 2024 second quarter financial results conference call. Yesterday, after the close, we issued a press release, a copy of which is available at the company's website, www.ftek.com.

謝謝你，拉塔尼亞。大家早安，感謝您今天參加 Fuel Tech 2024 年第二季財務業績電話會議。昨天收盤後，我們發布了一份新聞稿，該新聞稿的副本可在公司網站 www.ftek.com 上取得。

Our speakers for today will be Vincent Arnone, Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer and Ellen Albrecht, the company's Chief Financial Officer. After prepared remarks, we will open the call for questions from our analysts and investors.

今天的演講者是董事長、總裁兼執行長 Vincent Arnone 和公司財務長 Ellen Albrecht。在準備好發言後，我們將開始向分析師和投資人提問。

Before turning things over to Vince, I'd like to reset everyone that is discussed on this call, except for historical information, are forward-looking statements as defined in Section 21E of the Securities Act of 1934 as amended, which are made pursuant to the safe harbor provisions of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995, and reflect Fuel Tech sections regarding future growth, results of operations, cash flows, performance and business prospects and opportunities, as well as assumptions made by, and information currently available to our company's management.

在將事情交給Vince 之前，我想重申一下，本次電話會議中討論的所有內容（歷史資訊除外）均為經修訂的1934 年《證券法》第21E 條中定義的前瞻性陳述，這些陳述是根據1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》的安全港條款，並反映了燃料技術有關未來增長、營運結果、現金流量、業績和業務前景和機會的部分，以及我們所做的假設和目前可獲得的資訊公司的管理階層。

Fuel Tech has tried to identify forward-looking statements by using words such as anticipate, believe, plan, expect, estimate, intend, will and similar expressions, but these words are not the exclusive means of identifying forward-looking statements.

Fuel Tech 試圖透過使用「預期」、「相信」、「計劃」、「期望」、「估計」、「打算」、「意願」和類似表達等詞語來識別前瞻性陳述，但這些詞語並不是識別前瞻性陳述的唯一方式。

These statements are based on information currently available to Fuel Tech and are subject to various risks, uncertainties and other factors, including, but not limited to, those discussed in the company's annual report on Form 10-K in Item 1A, under the caption of Risk Factors and subsequent filings, under the Securities Act of 1934 as amended, which could cause Fuel Tech's actual growth, results of operations, financial condition, cash flows, performance, business prospects and opportunities to differ materially from those expressed in or implied by these statements.

這些陳述基於 Fuel Tech 目前掌握的信息，並受到各種風險、不確定性和其他因素的影響，包括但不限於公司年度報告 10-K 表第 1A 項中討論的內容，標題為：根據經修訂的1934 年證券法，風險因素和後續備案可能導致Fuel Tech 的實際成長、營運結果、財務狀況、現金流量、績效、業務前景和機會與這些文件中明示或暗示的內容有重大差異聲明。

Fuel Tech undertakes no obligation to update such factors or to publicly announce the results of any forward-looking statements to reflect future events, developments or changed circumstances or for any other reason. Investors are cautioned that forward-looking statements involve risks and uncertainties, including those detailed in the company's filings with the SEC.

Fuel Tech 不承擔更新此類因素或公開宣布任何前瞻性陳述的結果以反映未來事件、發展或變更的情況或任何其他原因的義務。請投資人注意，前瞻性陳述涉及風險和不確定性，包括該公司向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中詳細說明的風險和不確定性。

With that said, I'd now like to turn the call over to Vince Arnone. Vince, please go ahead.

話雖如此，我現在想把電話轉給文斯阿諾 (Vince Arnone)。文斯，請繼續。

Thank you, Devin. Good morning, and I'd like to thank everyone for joining us on the call today. As expected, our performance in the second quarter was much improved over Q1 of this year. Following a slow start to the year, our APC and FUEL CHEM business segments each exhibited double-digit revenue growth and gross margin expansion during the second quarter.

謝謝你，德文。早安，我要感謝大家今天加入我們的電話會議。正如預期的那樣，我們第二季的業績比今年第一季有了很大改善。繼今年開局緩慢後，我們的 APC 和燃料化學業務部門在第二季度均實現了兩位數的收入成長和毛利率擴張。

We remain very encouraged by the progress toward commercialization made with our Dissolved Gas Infusion or DGI business initiative, and we ended the quarter in a strong financial position with cash, cash equivalents and investments of over $30 million and no debt.

我們對溶解氣體注入或 DGI 業務計劃在商業化方面取得的進展感到非常鼓舞，本季結束時，我們的財務狀況強勁，現金、現金等價物和投資超過 3000 萬美元，沒有債務。

Additionally, we were pleased to report the incremental $5 million in new APC contract bookings yesterday, which provides us with an effective backlog of just under $10 million, as of this date.

此外，我們很高興地報告昨天新的 APC 合約預訂增加了 500 萬美元，這為我們提供了截至目前的有效積壓訂單略低於 1000 萬美元。

Now, let's discuss our results for the second quarter in more detail, starting with FUEL CHEM. Our performance this quarter was highlighted by a 52% increase in revenue, as compared to the same quarter of the prior year.

現在，讓我們從燃料化學開始更詳細地討論第二季的業績。與去年同期相比，我們本季的業績突出的是營收成長了 52%。

After a slower-than-expected first quarter, this performance puts us at the same level as the prior year on a year-to-date basis. This result was driven by several positive factors: First, we had two customers that had largely been dormant over the past 2 years, we turned a service to address higher regional power demand in a cost-efficient and dependable manner.

在經歷了低於預期的第一季之後，這一業績使我們今年迄今的業績與去年同期持平。這一結果是由幾個積極因素推動的：首先，我們有兩個客戶在過去兩年中基本上處於休眠狀態，我們轉而提供一項服務，以經濟高效且可靠的方式滿足更高的區域電力需求。

Second, as discussed on our last call, we realized a modest contribution, from our recently initiated demonstration in the Western us of our chemical technologies program at a new coal-fired unit. These demonstration related revenues will be more pronounced in the current third quarter. If this becomes a commercial account, it is expected to generate annualized revenue of approximately $1.5 million to $2 million per year at historic FUEL CHEM gross margins.

其次，正如我們在上次電話會議中所討論的那樣，我們最近在美國西部的一個新燃煤機組中啟動了化學技術項目的示範，我們意識到了這一點。這些與演示相關的收入將在當前第三季更加明顯。如果這成為一個商業帳戶，預計每年將產生約 150 萬至 200 萬美元的年化收入，以歷史悠久的 FUEL CHEM 毛利率計算。

In addition to this domestic opportunity, we are in discussions with one additional coal-fired power generation facility, also in the Western us a demonstration later in the year, or early in Q1 of 2025. We are also pursuing an opportunity to address the concerns of a biomass fired boiler operator, and this could also materialize into an additional demonstration as we move into next year.

除了這個國內機會外，我們還在討論另外一個燃煤發電設施，該設施也在美國西部，將於今年晚些時候或 2025 年第一季初進行示範。我們也正在尋求機會來解決生物質燃燒鍋爐營運商的擔憂，當我們進入明年時，這也可能會具體化為額外的演示。

With respect to international FUEL CHEM opportunities, we remain in discussions with our partner in Mexico to expand the provision of our chemical technology in their country. Following the election of President Claudia Sheinbaum, who takes office on October 1, we are still waiting to gain additional clarity on the likelihood of this opportunity. We would expect her to act favorably toward implementation of environmental policy, given her background as an energy engineer and her long-term advocacy on matters of energy efficiency, sustainability and the environment.

關於國際燃料化學機會，我們仍在與墨西哥的合作夥伴進行討論，以擴大我們在他們國家的化學技術的供應。總統克勞迪婭·謝因鮑姆 (Claudia Sheinbaum) 當選並於 10 月 1 日就職後，我們仍在等待進一步明確這一機會的可能性。鑑於她作為能源工程師的背景以及她對能源效率、永續發展和環境問題的長期倡導，我們預計她會積極推動環境政策的實施。

With the combination of customers returning to service from scheduled and unplanned outages, the increase in power demand and associated unit dispatch that historically comes during the summer months, and the incremental impact of known demonstration revenue, we expect FUEL CHEM revenue to improve significantly in the second half of the year versus the first half of the year, and we expect a year-on-year revenue improvement for the third quarter. Domestic and international opportunities that we are currently pursuing could provide additional upside.

隨著客戶從計畫內和計畫外停電中恢復服務、夏季月份電力需求和相關機組調度的增加，以及已知示範收入的增量影響，我們預計燃料化學收入將在下半年與上半年相比，我們預計第三季營收將年減。我們目前正在尋求的國內和國際機會可能會提供額外的好處。

Turning to our APC segment. The 15% growth compared to last year's second quarter reflected the timing of successful project execution. As I mentioned previously, we were pleased to announce $5 million in new contract awards yesterday, and based on ongoing discussions with our potential customer base, we expect to close additional new APC orders during the second half of this year. In 2023 and 2024 thus far, we benefited from the continued adoption of our ULTRA, SCR, SNCR, FTC and ESP emissions control solutions, that natural gas and coal-fired units in the us, Europe, South Africa and the Pacific Rim.

轉向我們的 APC 部分。與去年第二季相比 15% 的成長反映了專案執行的成功時機。正如我之前提到的，我們昨天很高興地宣布授予 500 萬美元的新合同，並且根據與潛在客戶群的持續討論，我們預計將在今年下半年完成更多新的 APC 訂單。2023 年和 2024 年迄今為止，我們受益於美國、歐洲、南非和環太平洋地區的天然氣和燃煤機組繼續採用 ULTRA、SCR、SNCR、FTC 和 ESP 排放控制解決方案。

I expect this to continue throughout the second half of 2024 and into 2025. Independence of the potential impact of regulatory drivers. We are well positioned to take advantage of current industrial market trends, which include plant capacity expansion across several industries, the incentivized use of small turbines to replace traditional less clean power generation, the development of the biocarbon industry, the continued emphasis on decarbonization on a global basis and the focus on using our Ultra systems as the safe source of ammonia for SCRs at hospitals and universities across the us Now on the regulatory front.

我預計這種情況將持續到 2024 年下半年直至 2025 年。監管驅動因素潛在影響的獨立性。我們處於有利地位，可以利用當前的工業市場趨勢，其中包括多個行業的工廠產能擴張、激勵使用小型渦輪機取代傳統的清潔度較低的發電、生物碳產業的發展、持續強調脫碳全球基礎，並專注於使用我們的Ultra 系統作為美國各地醫院和大學SCR 的安全氨源現在在監管方面。

On June 27, the Supreme Court granted states and industry applicants request to say the good neighbor rule, while the case proceeds in the D.C. Circuit Court. As we have discussed on previous calls, the rule required 23 states to reduce emissions of nitrogen oxides from power plants, and certain industrial facilities to limit their impact on downwind states.

6 月 27 日，最高法院批准了各州和行業申請人提出睦鄰規則的請求，案件在華盛頓特區巡迴法院繼續審理。正如我們在先前的電話會議中所討論的那樣，該規則要求 23 個州減少發電廠和某些工業設施的氮氧化物排放，以限制其對順風州的影響。

This decision temporarily holds the implementation of the rule, pending the disposition of the applicants petition for review and the us Court of Appeals for the DC circuit. We will be definitely closely monitoring the status of this case to better understand the impact and timing of the final decision making.

該決定暫時擱置該規則的實施，等待申請人的審查請求和美國華盛頓特區巡迴上訴法院的處理。我們一定會密切關注此案的進展，以便更好地了解最終決策的影響和時間安排。

In addition to the good neighbor rule, we are also watching the progress of EPA's rule for large municipal waste combustor units, which is independent of the good neighbor rule. This rule reduces the nitrogen oxide emissions requirements for large MWC units. Fuel Tech has had a long history of assisting this industry and meeting its compliance requirements.

除了「好鄰居」規則之外，我們還關注美國環保局針對大型城市垃圾燃燒裝置的規則的進展，該規則獨立於「好鄰居」規則。該規則降低了大型MWC裝置的氮氧化物排放要求。Fuel Tech 在協助該行業並滿足其合規要求方面有著悠久的歷史。

And we have had discussions with customers in this segment, to support their compliance planning. The MWC rule was proposed in February of this year, and is currently being finalized by EPA after the public comment period. The final rule is expected in November with compliance deadlines expected sometime in the next 3 years.

我們與該領域的客戶進行了討論，以支援他們的合規規劃。MWC 規則於今年 2 月提出，目前正由 EPA 在公眾評議期結束後最終確定。最終規則預計將於 11 月制定，合規期限預計在未來 3 年內的某個時間。

Lastly, in April of this year, the EPA issued a new stringent greenhouse gas emission standard that require 90% reductions from most new gas-fired plants and existing coal units by 2032. This same proposed rule includes tightening the mercury and air toxic standards by 2028. Waste water discharge limits for coal-fired power plants by 2029, and the ash-handling and disposal from coal-fired power plants over the next several years.

最後，今年 4 月，美國環保署發布了一項新的嚴格溫室氣體排放標準，要求在 2032 年大多數新建燃氣電廠和現有燃煤機組減排 90%。該擬議規則還包括到 2028 年收緊汞和空氣毒性標準。2029年燃煤電廠廢水排放限制，以及未來幾年燃煤電廠灰渣處理及處置。

This combined rule comes at a time where there are projections of potential shortfalls in power generation, over the next 5 to 7 years in certain geographic regions, due to data center power demands and increases in computing power resulting from the adoption of artificial intelligence.

這項綜合規則出台之際，預計未來 5 至 7 年內，由於資料中心電力需求和採用人工智慧導致運算能力增加，某些地理區域可能出現發電短缺。

And we are in the process of evaluating the potential impact across our technologies in the power generation market. As previously mentioned, opportunities related to these regulatory requirements would be incremental to our current expectations.

我們正在評估我們的技術對發電市場的潛在影響。如前所述，與這些監管要求相關的機會將超出我們目前的預期。

Now shifting to our DGI technology. Ongoing business development initiatives continue to gain momentum. We expect to commence the demonstration late in the third quarter or early in the fourth, at a fish hatchery site in the Western us, to highlight the capabilities of DGI for this aquaculture application. Should this demonstration prove successful, we would expect that DGI would be integrated into this customer's greenfield project specifications, for a large facility that is expected to be completed by late in 2025.

現在轉向我們的 DGI 技術。持續的業務發展計劃繼續獲得動力。我們預計將於第三季末或第四季初在美國西部的一個魚類孵化場開始演示，以突出 DGI 在水產養殖應用中的能力。如果這次演示成功，我們預計 DGI 將被整合到該客戶的綠地專案規格中，該大型設施預計將於 2025 年底完工。

We are also progressing in discussions with one of the largest food processors in this country to utilize DGI to provide dissolved oxygen, for the wastewater treatment facility at a food processing plant that they own and operate. The timing of this demonstration is currently unknown, but is likely to occur towards the end of the year.

我們也正在與全國最大的食品加工商之一進行討論，以利用 DGI 為他們擁有和經營的食品加工廠的廢水處理設施提供溶解氧。目前尚不清楚這次示威的時間，但很可能會在今年年底發生。

There are multiple other end markets of interest that we are pursuing for DGI, including pulp and paper, food and beverage, chemical, petrochemical and horticulture, and we look forward to addressing these markets prospectively, as we continue to advance towards commercialization.

我們正在為 DGI 尋求多個其他感興趣的終端市場，包括紙漿和造紙、食品和飲料、化學品、石化和園藝，隨著我們繼續推動商業化，我們期待前瞻性地解決這些市場問題。

On the marketing front, we continue to increase our efforts to communicate the benefits of DGI to targeted end markets and customers, and we will be attending the WEFTEC Conference, also known as Water Environment Federation, Technical Exhibition Conference in New Orleans, in October of this year.

在行銷方面，我們繼續加強努力，向目標終端市場和客戶傳達 DGI 的優勢，我們將於 10 月參加在新奧爾良舉行的 WEFTEC 會議，也稱為水環境聯盟技術展覽會議。

Based on our effective APC backlog, the business development activities we are pursuing across business segments and our previously noted expectations for FUEL CHEM. We continue to expect that total revenues for 2024 will exceed the total revenues recognized in 2023 of $27.1 million, and we will provide further guidance as we move throughout 2024. This base case outlook excludes any material contributions from DGI as we are still in the midst of commercialization.

基於我們有效的 APC 積壓訂單、我們正在跨業務部門開展的業務開發活動以及我們之前提到的對 FUEL CHEM 的期望。我們仍然預計 2024 年的總收入將超過 2023 年確認的總收入 2,710 萬美元，並且我們將在 2024 年全年提供進一步的指導。此基本情況展望不包括 DGI 的任何實質貢獻，因為我們仍處於商業化階段。

In closing, I want to express my thanks to the Fuel Tech team for their contributions to our business. We are encouraged by the contract landscape for APC by the resilience and potential growth of our FUEL CHEM segment and the opportunities we are pursuing at DGI. I thank our shareholders for their continuing support and reiterate to you our focus on delivering long-term shareholder value.

最後，我要對 Fuel Tech 團隊對我們業務的貢獻表示感謝。我們對 APC 的合約前景、我們燃料化學部門的彈性和潛在成長以及我們在 DGI 尋求的機會感到鼓舞。我感謝股東的持續支持，並向你們重申我們致力於實現長期股東價值。

Now, I'd like to turn the call over to Ellen.

現在，我想把電話轉給艾倫。

Thank you, Vince, and good morning, everyone. For the quarter, consolidated revenues rose 29% to $7 million from $5.5 million in last year's second quarter, reflecting double-digit growth in both the APC and FUEL CHEM segments from the prior year period. APC segment revenue increased to $3.9 million from $3.4 million in last year's second quarter, primarily related to progress made on project execution.

謝謝你，文斯，大家早安。本季的綜合收入從去年第二季的 550 萬美元成長了 29%，達到 700 萬美元，反映出 APC 和燃料化學業務部門比去年同期實現了兩位數成長。APC 部門的營收從去年第二季的 340 萬美元增至 390 萬美元，主要與專案執行的進展有關。

FUEL CHEM segment revenue increased to $3.1 million from $2 million in the second quarter of 2023, due to the combination of factors that Vince described earlier. Consolidated gross margin for the second quarter was 42% of revenues, up from 37% in last year's second quarter. This increase reflected an increase in both APC and FUEL CHEM gross margin. APC segment gross margin increased to 39% of segment revenues from 31% in the prior year period due to favorable product and project mix.

由於文斯之前描述的多種因素的綜合作用，燃料化學部門的收入從 2023 年第二季的 200 萬美元增加到 310 萬美元。第二季綜合毛利率佔營收的 42%，高於去年第二季的 37%。這一增長反映了 APC 和 FUEL CHEM 毛利率的增長。由於有利的產品和項目組合，APC 部門毛利率佔部門收入的比例從去年同期的 31% 增至 39%。

FUEL CHEM segment gross margin increased to 46% from 45% during the prior year period, primarily due to the increase in segment revenue. FUEL CHEM's second quarter gross margin also improved from gross margin of 43% in the first quarter of 2024, validating our expectations that FUEL CHEM segment gross margin will return to historic levels in the second half of the year.

燃料化學分部毛利率從去年同期的 45% 增至 46%，主要是由於分部收入增加。燃料化學第二季的毛利率也較2024年第一季43%的毛利率有所改善，驗證了我們對燃料化學業務毛利率將在下半年恢復到歷史水準的預期。

Consolidated APC segment backlog at June 30, 2024, was $4.3 million, down from a backlog of $7.5 million at December 31, 2023. The Backlog at June 30 included $1.8 million of domestically delivered project backlog and $2.5 million of foreign delivered project backlog.

截至 2024 年 6 月 30 日，合併 APC 部門積壓訂單為 430 萬美元，低於 2023 年 12 月 31 日的積壓訂單 750 萬美元。截至 6 月 30 日的積壓項目包括 180 萬美元的國內交付項目積壓和 250 萬美元的國外交付項目積壓。

Compared to $2.6 million of domestic delivered project backlog and $4.9 million of foreign delivered project backlog as of December 31. We expect that $4.3 million of the current consolidated backlog will be recognized in the next 12 months. As Vince noted, backlog at June 30 did not include the $5 million of new project awards announced yesterday.

截至 12 月 31 日，國內已交付專案積壓金額為 260 萬美元，國外已交付專案積壓金額為 490 萬美元。我們預計目前合併積壓訂單中的 430 萬美元將在未來 12 個月內確認。正如 Vince 指出的，截至 6 月 30 日的積壓訂單不包括昨天宣布的 500 萬美元新項目獎勵。

SG&A expenses increased to $3.3 million from $2.9 million in last year's second quarter, reflecting higher employee-related expenditures. Despite the year-over-year increase, SG&A as a percentage of revenue decreased to 46% from 53% in last year's second quarter, primarily driven by the increase in total revenue and our commitment to maintaining cost-efficient operations. For 2024, we expect SG&A expenses to range between $13 million and $13.5 million.

SG&A 費用從去年第二季的 290 萬美元增加到 330 萬美元，反映出與員工相關的支出增加。儘管同比增長，SG&A 佔收入的百分比從去年第二季度的 53% 下降至 46%，這主要是由於總收入的增加以及我們對維持成本效益營運的承諾。2024 年，我們預計 SG&A 費用將在 1,300 萬美元至 1,350 萬美元之間。

Research and development expenses for the second quarter were essentially flat at just over $400,000, and primarily reflecting our ongoing investment in the development of new technologies to expand our product offerings in the water and wastewater treatment market, and more specifically, our DGI systems.

第二季的研發費用基本上持平，略高於40 萬美元，主要反映了我們對新技術開發的持續投資，以擴大我們在水和廢水處理市場的產品供應，更具體地說，是我們的DGI 系統。

Our operating loss narrowed to $715,000 from an operating loss of $1.3 million in last year's second quarter, reflecting the increases in revenue and gross profit in both business segments. We continue to take advantage of the favorable interest rate environment and as of June 30, have invested the majority of our $30.4 million in cash and held-to-maturity debt securities and money market funds.

我們的營運虧損從去年第二季的營運虧損 130 萬美元收窄至 71.5 萬美元，反映出兩個業務部門的營收和毛利的成長。我們繼續利用有利的利率環境，截至 6 月 30 日，我們已將 3,040 萬美元的大部分投資於現金、持有至到期債務證券和貨幣市場基金。

This generated $334,000 of interest income in the second quarter compared to $307,000 in the prior year period. Assuming no significant changes in the interest rate environment, we expect to generate interest income in excess of $1.2 million in 2024.

這在第二季度產生了 334,000 美元的利息收入，而去年同期為 307,000 美元。假設利率環境沒有重大變化，我們預期2024年將產生超過120萬美元的利息收入。

Our net loss for the quarter narrowed to $421,000 or $0.01 per share compared to a net loss of $1 million or $0.03 per share in the same period 1 year ago. Adjusted EBITDA loss was $529,000 compared to an adjusted EBITDA loss of $1.2 million in the same period last year.

我們本季的淨虧損收窄至 421,000 美元，即每股 0.01 美元，而一年前同期的淨虧損為 100 萬美元，即每股 0.03 美元。調整後 EBITDA 虧損為 529,000 美元，而去年同期調整後 EBITDA 虧損為 120 萬美元。

Lastly, moving to the balance sheet. Our financial condition remains strong. As of June 30, we had cash and cash equivalents of $10.4 million and short and long-term investments totaling $20 million. Working capital was $25.8 million or $0.85 per share. Stockholders' equity was $43.6 million or $1.43 per share, and the company continues to have no outstanding debt. We remain confident in our ability to maintain a strong financial position and fund our growth initiatives. I will now turn the call back over to Vince.

最後，轉向資產負債表。我們的財務狀況依然強勁。截至 6 月 30 日，我們擁有現金和現金等價物 1,040 萬美元，短期和長期投資總計 2,000 萬美元。營運資金為 2,580 萬美元，即每股 0.85 美元。股東權益為 4,360 萬美元，即每股 1.43 美元，公司仍沒有未償債務。我們對保持強勁的財務狀況並為我們的成長計劃提供資金的能力仍然充滿信心。我現在將把電話轉回給文斯。

Thank you, Ellen. Operator let's please go ahead and open the line for questions.

謝謝你，艾倫。接線員，請繼續撥打電話提問。

Thank you. We will now conduct a question-and-answer session. (Operator Instructions)

謝謝。我們現在將進行問答環節。（操作員說明）

Amit Dayal, H.C. Wainwright.

阿米特·達亞爾 (Amit Dayal)，H.C.溫賴特。

Thank you and good morning, everyone.

謝謝大家，早安。

Good morning, Amit.

早安，阿米特。

Congrats on the bounce back in the second quarter. Just focusing on some of the DGI side of things, looks like business development efforts are progressing well. What are you seeing currently, for how big some of these contracts could be for you? If you could share any range for how large these opportunities potentially could be? It would be very helpful. Thank you.

恭喜第二季度的反彈。僅關注 DGI 方面的一些事情，看起來業務開發工作進展順利。您目前看到了什麼，其中一些合約對您來說可能有多大？您能否分享一下這些機會的潛在範圍有多大？這會很有幫助。謝謝。

Yes. Thanks, Amit. I mean, we've discussed this a little bit previously. I think, when we talk about revenue range for DGI systems, it will depend on the size of the application that we're looking to serve. I mentioned that we're looking at a couple of demonstrations right now. One is for it's a large food processing plant and their wastewater treatment plant is sizable.

是的。謝謝，阿米特。我的意思是，我們之前已經討論過這個問題。我認為，當我們談論 DGI 系統的收入範圍時，它將取決於我們希望服務的應用程式的規模。我提到我們現在正在觀看一些演示。一是因為它是一個大型食品加工廠，而且他們的廢水處理廠規模也很大。

The system that we would provide to a site like this could be between $0.5 million and $1 million, just as a range for application. As we're looking at an aquaculture site, and it will depend on the size of the aquaculture site, but I would expect perhaps something a little smaller than that revenue range.

我們為這樣的網站提供的系統可能會在 50 萬美元到 100 萬美元之間，這只是一個應用範圍。當我們考慮水產養殖場時，這將取決於水產養殖場的規模，但我預計收入範圍可能會略小一些。

So it will definitely get down to the size of the application for which we're looking to provide the dissolved oxygen. But the system range could be anywhere from as low as $200,000 to $300,000 to in excess of $1 million.

因此，這肯定會取決於我們希望提供溶解氧的應用的規模。但該系統的價格範圍可以從低至 20 萬美元到 30 萬美元，甚至超過 100 萬美元。

Understood. Thank you for that. And with the work you've done so far of this segment, gross margin trends will align with sort of current levels for the legacy business for DGI?

明白了。謝謝你。根據您迄今為止在該細分市場所做的工作，毛利率趨勢將與 DGI 傳統業務的當前水準保持一致？

Yes. We are going to be targeting 35% plus gross margins for DGI just as a general statement. But as technically, we are not commercial yet, it's a little premature. But at a minimum, we are going to be targeting 35% gross margin levels or better.

是的。我們將 DGI 的毛利率目標定為 35% 以上，這只是一般性聲明。但從技術上來說，我們還沒有商業化，現在還為時過早。但至少，我們的毛利率目標是 35% 或更高。

Okay, thank you.

好的，謝謝。

You are welcome.

不客氣。

FUEL CHEM seems to be doing much better, especially going into 2025. Are you taking market share from sort of other players, or are these just previous customers who you already had a relationship with, went dormant, are now sort of reengaging you?

FUEL CHEM 的表現似乎要好得多，尤其是進入 2025 年。您是否正在從其他參與者那裡奪取市場份額，或者這些只是與您有過關係、處於休眠狀態的以前的客戶現在正在重新吸引您？

Yes. No, technically speaking, Amit, there really isn't competition for what we do with our FUEL CHEM technology. So, what's happening at this point in time is we are finding that there are -- again, some pockets of opportunity, whether our units in certain geographies that are being tasked to dispatch at higher load levels.

是的。不，從技術上講，阿米特，我們的燃料化學技術確實沒有競爭。因此，此時此刻發生的事情是，我們再次發現，存在一些機會，無論是我們在某些​​地區的單位的任務是以更高的負載水平進行調度。

They are burning some fuels that are difficult to burn, but it's very advantageous for them to try to keep themselves up and available to run, particularly during the peak dispatch times of year, that being summer and winter time.

他們正在燃燒一些難以燃燒的燃料，但對他們來說，努力保持正常運作並能夠運行是非常有利的，特別是在一年中的高峰調度時間，即夏季和冬季。

So, it's these couple of facilities that are giving us the opportunities for additional business at this point in time. One, we are up and running on now, the demonstration is going well. The additional one where we are targeting at looking at a start-up as we move towards the end of this year or early next year. But those two accounts are indeed brand-new customers for us.

因此，正是這兩個設施為我們提供了此時獲得額外業務的機會。第一，我們現在已經啟動並運行，演示進展順利。我們的目標是在今年年底或明年初尋找新創公司。但這兩個帳戶對我們來說確實是全新的客戶。

Okay. Understood. And you highlighted that if you close on this account in Western us, you could generate like record level margins? Like what would those margin levels be for the FUEL CHEM business?

好的。明白了。您強調說，如果您在美國西部關閉該帳戶，您可能會產生創紀錄的利潤水平？例如燃料化學業務的利潤水準是多少？

I did not say record. I think the word I used was returning to historic levels, returning to our historical levels, if you will. So, not record levels. But through the first half of the year, our FUEL CHEM gross margin on a year-to-date basis is a little bit lower than our norm.

我沒有說記錄。我認為我用的這個詞是回到歷史水平，回到我們的歷史水平，如果你願意的話。所以，沒有創紀錄的水平。但今年上半年，我們的燃料化學毛利率年初至今略低於我們的正常水準。

It's in the 44% to 45% range. With the additional volumes that we are going to see in the second half of the year, our overall year-to-date numbers as we proceed throughout the year should increase more towards our historical average of that 48% to 49% level, 50% level some years. So, we will see some margin improvement as we move throughout the remainder of the year.

它在 44% 到 45% 的範圍內。隨著下半年我們將看到更多的銷量，我們今年迄今為止的整體數據應該會進一步向 48% 至 49% 的歷史平均值（50%）增加幾年的水平。因此，隨著今年剩餘時間的推移，我們將看到利潤率有所改善。

And thank you for clarifying that, appreciate it.

感謝您澄清這一點，謝謝。

No problem.

沒問題。

Yes, that's all I have Vince, will take my other questions offline. Thank you.

是的，這就是我的全部內容，文斯，我的其他問題將在線下解答。謝謝。

Thanks, Amit.

謝謝，阿米特。

[William Bremer], Vanquish Capital Markets. Please proceed.

[威廉·布雷默]，Vanquish 資本市場。請繼續。

Good morning, Vince.

早上好，文斯。

Hey, Will, how are you?

嘿，威爾，你好嗎？

I am doing well. Thank you. I appreciate the update on the future political compliance rules. That's very helpful. Especially, there is a few of them out there. The question I have and I am going back almost 6 years was a release by you guys, September 10, 2018, and in which it was a very sizable release totaling $15.8 million, if you recall.

我做得很好。謝謝。我對未來政治合規規則的更新表示讚賞。這非常有幫助。特別是，那裡有一些。我要追溯到近 6 年前的問題是你們在 2018 年 9 月 10 日發布的版本，如果你們還記得的話，這是一個非常大的版本，總計 1580 萬美元。

But more importantly, in this release, this was the second contract that you received in the data center power market, going back 6 years, okay? It was at its infancy, and we all know that the data center power market has been an enormous play. My question to you is, that we supplied the selective catalytic reduction and the urea reagent technologies to these data centers.

但更重要的是，在此版本中，這是您在數據中心電力市場獲得的第二份合同，可以追溯到 6 年前，好嗎？當時它還處於起步階段，我們都知道資料中心電力市場一直是個龐大的市場。我的問題是，我們為這些資料中心提供了選擇性催化還原和尿素試劑技術。

Why haven't we received the bulk load, if we were so early on this end market, where has been the future follow-up orders? And as I voiced in the past, we haven't had a book to burn over 1.5 in some time. Now, today's announcement of $5 million is commendable, it's not earth shattering, but it's commendable. It's a step in the right direction. But we were so early on this end market, and yet there hasn't been any follow-through whatsoever.

為什麼我們還沒有收到大量訂單，如果我們這麼早進入這個終端市場，未來的後續訂單在哪裡？正如我過去所說，我們已經有一段時間沒有一本可以燒毀超過 1.5 的書了。現在，今天宣布的500萬美元是值得稱讚的，這不是驚天動地的，但值得稱讚。這是朝著正確方向邁出的一步。但我們在這個終端市場起步太早了，但還沒有任何後續行動。

Understood. Obviously, I know the order that you are making reference to. It was two separate contract awards, but in total, there was for 20 units of SCR in support of gas turbines that were backup power for a data center. And yes, that was in the 2018-2019 timeframe.

明白了。顯然，我知道您所參考的順序。這是兩份單獨的合約授予，但總共有 20 台 SCR 來支援燃氣渦輪機，這些燃氣渦輪機是資料中心的備用電源。是的，那是在 2018-2019 年的時間範圍內。

Now, interesting because we actually did think that we would see more opportunity from the data center market over this past handful of years. But what we found out is a couple of things. Primary point is the requirement for the use of post combustion control. In other words, our systems for reducing nitrogen oxide emissions is very specific to each application.

現在，很有趣，因為我們確實認為在過去幾年中我們會從資料中心市場看到更多機會。但我們發現了一些事情。重點是使用後燃燒控制的要求。換句話說，我們的氮氧化物減量系統針對每種應用都非常具體。

Because the requirement for that emissions reduction depends on how many hours that these units are going to be permitted to run on an annual basis. And if the permits that are obtained don't require these units to run over that requirement level, if you will, then they don't require the pollution control systems on those units. So, we have been watching this very, very closely.

因為減排的要求取決於這些裝置每年被允許運作的小時數。如果所獲得的許可證不要求這些單位運行超過該要求等級（如果你願意的話），那麼他們就不需要在這些單位上安裝污染控制系統。所以，我們一直非常非常密切地關注這一點。

Believe me, there is no one that's more disappointed that we haven't seen more revenue from this marketplace than us, because it's something that we definitely had some high hopes for. But as we have come to find out that the data centers that are being permitted, they are not requiring the pollution control requirements, because of how they have written those permits for those applications.

相信我，沒有人比我們更失望的是，我們沒有看到這個市場的更多收入，因為這確實是我們寄予厚望的東西。但我們發現，獲得許可的資料中心並不需要污染控制要求，因為他們為這些應用程式編寫了這些許可證。

So, we are still in contact with the gas-driven providers that we worked with previously and other ones as well. So, we are watching this market space. And if it happens to turn our way again, we will be there ready to interact and engage. But unfortunately, there hasn't been a further expansion of the requirement for the pollution control technologies on these applications. And a long answer, but that's the best knowledge that we have today.

因此，我們仍然與先前合作過的天然氣驅動供應商以及其他供應商保持聯繫。所以，我們正在關注這個市場空間。如果它再次轉向我們，我們將準備好進行互動和參與。但不幸的是，這些應用對污染控制技術的要求並沒有進一步擴大。答案很長，但這是我們今天所擁有的最好的知識。

No, I appreciate the articulation of that. I truly do in the education. Second question, our equity actually traded down to $0.91 this week, far below our cash per share. Basically, the market is telling us that they don't value our products, our management, a separate we are trading below cash per share. We need to turn this around. I have articulated in the past that we need a complete change in our sales cycle or additional sales personnel, have any of these changes been implemented since the last call?

不，我很欣賞這一點的闡述。我確實在教育方面做到了。第二個問題，本週我們的股票實際上跌至 0.91 美元，遠低於每股現金。基本上，市場告訴我們，他們不重視我們的產品、我們的管理，而且我們的交易價格低於每股現金。我們需要扭轉局面。我過去曾明確表示，我們需要徹底改變我們的銷售週期或增加銷售人員，自上次通話以來這些改變是否已實施？

No changes in sales cycle, Bill, nor in sales team as we sit here today. Our sales cycles are challenging cycles, and they have always have been. Sometimes our sales cycle for our air pollution control business is 5 years to 7 years long from when we first have an inquiry and provide a budgeted bid. So, it's something that we watch all the time.

比爾，銷售週期沒有變化，我們今天坐在這裡的銷售團隊也沒有改變。我們的銷售週期是充滿挑戰的週期，而且一直都是。有時，我們的空氣污染控制業務的銷售週期從我們第一次詢問並提供預算出價時起長達 5 年至 7 年。所以，這是我們一直在關注的事情。

So, what's interesting to note is, as part of the contract orders today, the great majority of that contract value is international in nature. So, that's caused a little bit of a nuance and a little bit of surprise, particularly with the contract values that we are talking about. But what we are looking to continue to do is, not just focus domestically, but look to find partners that are doing business all over the world that can utilize our technology and some of the expertise that we have developed over the past four decades. So, we follow our sales cycles very closely.

因此，值得注意的是，作為當今合約訂單的一部分，合約價值的絕大多數本質上是國際性的。因此，這引起了一些細微差別和一些驚喜，特別是我們正在討論的合約價值。但我們希望繼續做的是，不僅關注國內，而且尋找在世界各地開展業務的合作夥伴，這些合作夥伴可以利用我們的技術和我們在過去四十年中開發的一些專業知識。因此，我們非常密切地關注我們的銷售週期。

One thing I will share with you is that, we have never seen, call it, longer periods of time to come to contract than we have over this past 2 years to 3 years, 4 years post-COVID. I don't know if it's the way businesses interact with each other. I don't know if it's how budgets are being set and managed or just uncertainty in the timing of when projects are pushed forward, but that has been a recent trend that we specifically noticed with our business over this past, again to a 2-year to 3-year timeframe, just coming to contract closure is taking longer than we thought.

我要與大家分享的一件事是，我們從未見過比新冠疫情後過去兩年、三年、四年更長的時間來簽約。我不知道這是否是企業之間互動的方式。我不知道這是否是預算的製定和管理方式，或者只是專案推進時間的不確定性，但這是我們在過去的業務中特別注意到的最近趨勢，再次達到 2-一年到三年的時間框架，光是完成合約所花費的時間就比我們想像的要長。

Some of the orders that we announced today, I mean we have been trying to get the contracts finalized for the past two months, three months, four months, although we had final agreement two months, three months or four months ago, but just working through final terms and conditions, exceptions, payment terms, all your usual legal language as part of a contract, it just takes longer to get those things done.

我們今天宣布的一些訂單，我的意思是，過去兩個月、三個月、四個月我們一直在努力敲定合同，儘管我們在兩個月、三個月或四個月前就達成了最終協議，但只是在努力通過最終條款和條件、例外情況、付款條款以及作為合約一部分的所有常用法律語言，完成這些事情只是需要更長的時間。

So, just general trends, but on an overall basis, I am pleased with where we stand today, relative to our APC contract outlook. I am expecting to see some material awards between now and the end of the year, or even as we move into the first month of next year. You may have noted in our contract award press release today, that one of those contracts came with an option for additional units, and that option expires in January of 2025.

所以，這只是總體趨勢，但總體而言，相對於我們的 APC 合約前景，我對我們今天的立場感到滿意。我期待從現在到今年年底，甚至在我們進入明年第一個月時，會看到一些物質獎勵。您可能已經在我們今天的合約授予新聞稿中註意到，其中一份合約附帶了額外單位的選項，該選項將於 2025 年 1 月到期。

If the customer exercises that option, it's a significant contract, incremental contract award for us. So, I am pleased with what we just announced yesterday, long overdue. I will definitely agree with that. But I do see good activity coming our way in this next 6 months to 12 months.

如果客戶行使該選擇權，這對我們來說是一份重要的合同，是增量合約。所以，我對我們昨天剛宣布的消息感到很高興，這是早該宣布的消息。我絕對同意這一點。但我確實看到未來 6 個月到 12 個月內將會出現良好的活動。

I appreciate that, I truly do. I hope that you and Bailey aren't content, okay? And I for one, I have more shares than yourself and Mr. Cummings combined, okay? And so I am not happy with the performance, being an exceptionally long-term shareholder that saw the value, the trends, etcetera. I just don't see the implementation on your end. You guys have to kick it off a notch, you really do. Thank you for your time, Vince.

我很感激，我真的很感激。我希望你和貝利不滿足，好嗎？就我而言，我擁有的股份比你和卡明斯先生加起來還多，好嗎？因此，我對業績並不滿意，因為我是一個非常長期的股東，看到了價值、趨勢等。我只是沒有看到你這邊的實施。你們必須更上一層樓，確實如此。謝謝您抽出時間，文斯。

Thanks, Bill. Appreciate the comments and believe me, we are not complacent in any way or form.

謝謝，比爾。感謝您的評論並相信我，我們不會以任何方式或形式自滿。

Marc Silk, Silk Investment. Please proceed.

馬克‧西爾克，《絲綢投資》。請繼續。

Hey Vince, how are you doing?

嘿文斯，你好嗎？

Hi Marc, How are you?

嗨，馬克，你好嗎？

Okay. The first thing you discussed the FUEL CHEM at $1.52 million. The way you phrase it, does that sound like that could be recurring or it's just a one-off?

好的。您首先討論的是 FUEL CHEM，價格為 152 萬美元。從你的措辭方式來看，這聽起來像是可能會反覆出現還是只是一次性的？

If the customer fully goes commercial, post demonstration, it will be annualized revenue. It is recurring revenue.

如果客戶完全商業化，演示後，這將是年化收入。這是經常性收入。

That's encouraging. Sticking with that area, let me see. What are the reasons of the return of the dormant customers? And how did that come about? Did they reach out to you, or was it an internal sales strategy?

這令人鼓舞。堅持那個區域，讓我看看。休眠客戶回歸的原因是什麼？這是怎麼發生的？他們是否聯繫過您，或者這是內部銷售策略？

Actually, in this case, they reached back out to us. In one of the cases, our equipment was already on the site for this particular customer application. And because of regional power demand, they have been tasked to run these units, and they obviously have found it profitable to run these units.

事實上，在這種情況下，他們又聯絡了我們。在其中一個案例中，我們的設備已經在該特定客戶應用的現場。由於地區電力需求，他們的任務是運行這些機組，而且他們顯然發現運行這些機組是有利可圖的。

But when they run, because of the coal they are utilizing, they need to run our program. And so again, the levels that they are taking our chemical, we haven't seen from this customer in probably 3 years or thereabouts. So, that was a nice surprise. The other one is outside of the us, a customer down in, call it, the Island area, they burn oil.

但當他們運行時，由於他們使用的是煤炭，他們需要運行我們的程式。再說一遍，他們服用我們化學品的水平，我們可能已經有 3 年左右的時間沒有從那個客戶那裡看到了。所以，這是一個很好的驚喜。另一個是在美國以外，一位客戶在，稱之為島嶼地區，他們燒油。

And this customer was actually looking to convert units to a different fuel source and use that different fuel source for power generation. Those conversions did not happen. They came to us and said, we need to start back up, and we need equipment for an additional unit as well, can you help us. And of course, we did. So, that was a nice surprise return as well. And believe me, it was a good fortune to have these two customers return back to us and here in 2024, very pleased with that.

該客戶實際上希望將設備轉換為不同的燃料來源，並使用該不同的燃料源來產生電力。這些轉變並沒有發生。他們來找我們說，我們需要啟動備份，我們還需要額外設備的設備，你能幫助我們嗎？當然，我們做到了。所以，這也是一個令人驚喜的回歸。相信我，這兩位客戶在 2024 年再次回到我們這裡真是一件幸運的事，我們對此感到非常高興。

So, it kind of gets to this point. So, how do you leverage, the first example you gave is, they realize they need your product and they have used in the past, how do you leverage that again, you are the only player in town. And is there internal strategies as far as how to kind of leverage that testimonial, let's say, because you could capture lightning in a bottle.

所以，事情就到了這一步。那麼，你如何利用，你給出的第一個例子是，他們意識到他們需要你的產品並且他們過去使用過，你如何再次利用它，你是城裡唯一的玩家。是否有內部策略來說明如何利用該推薦，比如說，因為你可以捕捉瓶子裡的閃電。

Agreed. And we have tried to leverage, call it, the benefits of the technology year-in, year-out over this past year, specifically, we do large advertising and e-mail campaigns, specifically targeted to coal-fired units that are operational today to see if we can provide them with benefit.

同意。在過去的一年裡，我們年復一年地試圖利用這項技術的好處，具體來說，我們開展了大型廣告和電子郵件活動，專門針對當今正在運行的燃煤機組看看我們是否能為他們提供好處。

But our program benefits are, they are really specific to the end user and what their needs and requirements are. They have to be burning a fuel that is causing them some difficulty. They have to be dispatched at higher loads, because if they are only running at 25% or 50% of their base load level, then in all likelihood, they are not going to have slagging and following issues on the inside of their boilers.

但我們的計劃的好處是，它們確實針對最終用戶以及他們的需求和要求。他們必須燃燒一種給他們帶來一些困難的燃料。它們必須以更高的負載進行調度，因為如果它們僅以基本負載水平的 25% 或 50% 運行，那麼很可能它們的鍋爐內部不會出現結渣和跟隨問題。

So, it's very specific criteria that these end users need to have, for them to see benefit of our program. And our program, it's not inexpensive. So, for them to calculate a return on investment, it ends up being more of a specific case that provides success to them. And yes, we are out there in the marketplace reaching out to anyone and everyone that we can to see if we can find additional opportunity for this particular application.

因此，這些最終用戶需要具備非常具體的標準，才能看到我們計畫的好處。我們的計劃並不便宜。因此，對他們來說，要計算投資報酬率，最終更多的是為他們提供成功的具體案例。是的，我們正在市場上與任何人接觸，看看我們是否能為這個特定的應用程式找到更多的機會。

Okay. And then the last question on FUEL CHEM before I move on is, you have got two new customers. So, how did that come about?

好的。在我繼續之前，關於燃料化學的最後一個問題是，你們有兩個新客戶。那麼，這是怎麼發生的呢？

Well, one new customer. That's the one that we are demonstrating right now. This new customer actually has, call it, some common relationships, if you will, from other plants where we have done business before. And so they end up coming to us because of their familiarity with what we have done on other units.

好吧，一位新客戶。這就是我們現在正在演示的。如果你願意的話，這個新客戶實際上與我們以前做過業務的其他工廠有一些共同的關係。因此，他們最終來到我們這裡是因為他們熟悉我們在其他單位所做的事情。

You mentioned you invested in new technologies on your press release. Is that DGI or are there other parts of the business that --

您在新聞稿中提到您投資了新技術。是 DGI 還是業務的其他部分--

That's DGI, specifically.

具體來說，就是 DGI。

Okay. So, one thing that got overlooked and maybe it's not a big issue because it didn't even come up in a conference call, but when you talked about your $5.5 million backlog, this is the first time I heard you discuss renewable energy market. So, can you expand on the possibilities and where you guys can find business opportunities?

好的。所以，有一件事被忽視了，也許這不是一個大問題，因為它甚至沒有在電話會議中出現，但當你談到你的550 萬美元積壓時，這是我第一次聽到你討論可再生能源市場。那麼，您能擴展一下可能性以及在哪裡可以找到商機嗎？

Yes. So, the renewable reference within our contract press release, and so one of the orders that we were able to bring in-house was, it's an application where ammonia is being fracked and it's being broken down into hydrogen and its other components. And whenever ammonia is broken down like that, it creates an emissions flow, if you will.

是的。因此，我們的合約新聞稿中提到的可再生能源，以及我們能夠在內部帶來的訂單之一是，這是一種將氨進行水力壓裂並將其分解為氫氣及其其他成分的應用。每當氨像這樣分解時，如果你願意的話，它就會產生排放流。

And we are providing technology to address the emissions from that ammonia fracking process. And it's actually at two locations in Europe, whereby we are providing our equipment. So, it's a nice adder for us to say that we are associated with, call it, a renewable energy application. It is fact. And hopefully, we will find more applications like this prospectively.

我們正在提供技術來解決氨水壓裂過程中的排放問題。實際上，我們在歐洲的兩個地點提供設備。因此，對我們來說，我們與再生能源應用相關聯是一個很好的補充。這是事實。希望我們能夠找到更多這樣的應用。

The ultimate end customer that we are dealing with is looking to build facilities like this in multiple locations around the world. If we do well with our execution on our contract with them, hopefully, we will be well aligned for additional business with them in the future.

我們正在處理的最終客戶正在尋求在世界各地的多個地點建造這樣的設施。如果我們能夠很好地執行與他們的合同，希望我們將來能夠與他們合作開展更多業務。

Great, because that is a nice buzzword. And then maybe to piggyback on the last caller, so you talk about it seems like there are so many opportunities there. Obviously, the Supreme Court hasn't done you any favors, but maybe things can change. I am not going to rely on the kindness of people's hearts that they are neighbors.

太好了，因為這是一個很好的流行詞。然後也許會搭上最後一個來電者的順風車，所以你談論的似乎有很多機會。顯然，最高法院沒有給你任何好處，但也許事情會改變。我不會依賴人們作為鄰居的善心。

They don't care if the neighbors get lung cancer or whatever. So, there is no doubt you are undervalued, especially you have done a good job maintaining your cash balance and this stuff. So, I do appreciate a healthy balance sheet.

他們不在乎鄰居是否得肺癌或其他什麼。所以，毫無疑問你被低估了，特別是你在維持現金餘額和這些東西方面做得很好。所以，我確實很欣賞健康的資產負債表。

But now that you are covering at the $1 range and I don't know if anyone would be short the stock, but if people could try to manipulate this below $1 to try to get you delisted, I think now it's time to talk about a very small, just to announce a share buyback, let's just use $1 million or $1.5 million. $1.5 million can basically retire 5% of your shares outstanding.

但現在你在 1 美元的範圍內回補，我不知道是否有人會做空該股票，但如果人們可以嘗試將其操縱到 1 美元以下以試圖讓你退市，我認為現在是時候討論一下了很小，只是為了宣布股票回購，就用100萬美元或150萬美元吧。 150 萬美元基本上可以退還已發行股票的 5%。

So, when things turn around, there is going to be less -- the supply and demand is going to be in these long-term shareholders' favors. But you can have orders below the market, that if something happens where the market tanks like it did this week and has got to $0.91, you might have been there at $0.92, $0.93, $0.85, what $0.95, whatever. I think strategically, using a small portion of your cash, and that's the important part.

因此，當情況好轉時，供應和需求將有利於這些長期股東。但你可以在低於市場的價格下訂單，如果發生像本週這樣市場暴跌並達到 0.91 美元的情況，你可能會以 0.92 美元、0.93 美元、0.85 美元、0.95 美元等價格買入。我認為從戰略上講，使用一小部分現金，這是重要的部分。

I am not telling you to do a $5 million buyback, and I haven't even proposed this before, but I think now is the time maybe it makes sense to announce a small buyback just so you can retire shares at a ridiculously cheap price. And then as the business gears up, then it was a great investment as well.

我並不是告訴你要進行500 萬美元的回購，而且我以前從未提出過這一點，但我認為現在也許是時候宣布一次小額回購是有意義的，這樣你就可以以極其便宜的價格退出股票。隨著業務的發展，這也是一項巨大的投資。

Understood, Marc, I appreciate the commentary. As I have mentioned previously, we do discuss that at Board level, the best utilization of our cash. And we have discussed buyback scenarios on a recurring basis. And it's something that we will indeed discuss again. I can't make any specific comments about whether or not it's something we will move forward and do at this point in time. I will tell you that, obviously, we watch the dollar threshold very, very closely. We take it very seriously. And if indeed, we needed to take action to cure a dollar share price, we will do it, and we will find the best way to do it.

明白了，馬克，我很欣賞你的評論。正如我之前提到的，我們確實在董事會層面討論了現金的最佳利用方式。我們經常討論回購方案。我們確實會再次討論這個問題。對於我們目前是否會繼續推進並做的事情，我無法發表任何具體評論。我會告訴你，顯然，我們非常非常密切地關注美元門檻。我們非常重視它。如果我們確實需要採取行動來控制美元股價，我們就會這樣做，並且我們會找到最好的方法來做到這一點。

Yes. And like I said, it would be using a lot of the money. And as Warren Buffett said, you are not out there in the market buying the stock on the way up, you are just there saying, I am going to retire stock at a ridiculous level, because as you give out options, it's going to be a plus, plus. So, hopefully, they look at this more seriously than they have in the past. And again, the dollar number, I don't think would impact the balance sheet that negatively because I am not looking for a $5 million or $10 million buyback. I am trying to be realistic here.

是的。正如我所說，這將花費大量資金。正如沃倫·巴菲特所說，你不會在市場上買入正在上漲的股票，你只是在那裡說，我將以荒謬的水平退休股票，因為當你給出期權時，它會加號，加號。因此，希望他們比過去更認真地看待這個問題。再說一次，我認為美元數字不會對資產負債表產生負面影響，因為我並沒有尋求 500 萬或 1000 萬美元的回購。我在這裡嘗試現實一些。

Good luck Marc, appreciate the commentary.

祝你好運，馬克，感謝評論。

Good luck going forward my friend.

祝你好運，我的朋友。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you. At this time, I would like to turn the call back over to Mr. Vincent Arnone for closing comments.

謝謝。此時，我想將電話轉回給 Vincent Arnone 先生以徵求結束意見。

Thank you, operator. I would like to thank everyone for taking the time to join us on the call today. We are continually looking to find ways to increase our shareholder value, and we look forward to discussing further results as we move throughout the year. I wish everybody a good day, and we'll talk again soon. Thank you.

謝謝你，接線生。我要感謝大家今天抽空參加我們的電話會議。我們不斷尋找增加股東價值的方法，並期待在全年行動中討論進一步的結果。祝大家有美好的一天，我們很快就會再聊。謝謝。

Thank you. This does concludes today's teleconference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation, and have a great day.

謝謝。今天的電話會議到此結束。此時您可以斷開線路。感謝您的參與，祝您有美好的一天。