FTAI Aviation Ltd (FTAI) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day and welcome to the Q4 2023 funding three FTAI Aviation's earnings conference Call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this call is being recorded. I'd like to hand the call over to Alan Andreini, Investor Relations. You may begin.

美好的一天，歡迎參加 2023 年第四季資助三場 FTAI Aviation 的收益電話會議。（操作員說明）謹此提醒，此通話正在錄音。我想將電話轉交給投資者關係部的艾倫·安德烈尼 (Alan Andreini)。你可以開始了。

Thank you, Michelle. I would like to welcome you all to the FTAI fourth quarter and full year 2023 earnings call. Joining me here today are Joe Adams, our Chief Executive Officer; Angela Nam, our Chief Financial Officer; and David Moreno, our Chief Operating Officer.

謝謝你，米歇爾。歡迎大家參加 FTAI 第四季和 2023 年全年財報電話會議。今天和我一起來的還有我們的執行長喬·亞當斯 (Joe Adams)； Angela Nam，我們的財務長；和我們的營運長大衛·莫雷諾。

We have posted an investor presentation and our press release on our website, which we encourage you to download if you have not already done so. Also, please note that this call is open to the public in listen-only mode and is being webcast. In addition, we will be discussing some non-GAAP financial measures during the call today, including EBITDA. The reconciliation of those measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures can be found in the earnings supplement.

我們已在我們的網站上發布了投資者簡報和新聞稿，如果您尚未下載，我們鼓勵您下載。另請注意，本次電話會議以僅聽模式向公眾開放，並且正在進行網路廣播。此外，我們將在今天的電話會議上討論一些非公認會計準則財務指標，包括 EBITDA。這些指標與最直接可比較的公認會計原則指標的調節可以在收益補充中找到。

Before I turn the call over to Joe, I would like to point out that certain statements made today will be forward-looking statements, including regarding future earnings. These statements by their nature are uncertain and may differ materially from actual results. We encourage you to review the disclaimers in our press release and investor presentation regarding non-GAAP financial measures and forward-looking statements and to review the risk factors contained in our annual report filed with the SEC.

在我把電話轉給喬之前，我想指出，今天發表的某些聲明將是前瞻性聲明，包括有關未來收益的聲明。這些陳述本質上是不確定的，可能與實際結果有重大差異。我們鼓勵您查看我們的新聞稿和投資者簡報中有關非公認會計準則財務措施和前瞻性陳述的免責聲明，並查看我們向 SEC 提交的年度報告中包含的風險因素。

Now I would like to turn the call over to Joe.

現在我想把電話轉給喬。

Thank you, Alan. To start today, I'm pleased to announce our 35th dividend as a public company and our 50th consecutive dividend since inception. The dividend of $0.30 per share will be paid on March 20 based on a shareholder record date of March 8.

謝謝你，艾倫。從今天開始，我很高興地宣布我們作為一家上市公司的第 35 次股息，也是我們自成立以來連續第 50 次股息。根據股東登記日 3 月 8 日，每股 0.30 美元的股息將於 3 月 20 日支付。

Now let's turn to the numbers. The key metric for us is adjusted EBITDA. We ended the year strongly with adjusted EBITDA of $162.3 million in Q4 2023, which is up just over 5% compared to $154.2 million in Q3 2023 and up 31% compared to $123.5 million in Q4 2022. During the fourth quarter, the $162.3 million EBITDA number was comprised of $121.8 million from our Leasing segment, $54.6 million from our Aerospace Products segment, a negative $14.1 million from Corporate and Other.

現在讓我們轉向數字。我們的關鍵指標是調整後的 EBITDA。我們以強勁的業績結束了這一年，2023 年第四季的調整後EBITDA 為1.623 億美元，與2023 年第三季的1.542 億美元相比增長了5% 多一點，與2022 年第四季的1.235 億美元相比成長了31%。第四季度，1.623 億美元的 EBITDA 數字包括租賃部門的 1.218 億美元、航空航太產品部門的 5,460 萬美元、企業及其他部門的負 1,410 萬美元。

Now let's look at all of 2023 versus all of 2022. Adjusted EBITDA was $597.3 million in 2023, up 40% versus $428.1 million in 2022. Turning now to Leasing. Leasing had another good quarter, posting approximately $122 million of EBITDA. The pure leasing component of $122 million of EBITDA came in at $99 million for Q4, versus $102 million in Q3. Additionally, on the acquisition side, we acquired at attractive prices, $229 million in new equipment, comprised of 10 aircrafts and 33 engines, which will contribute to further growth in future Leasing EBITDA.

現在讓我們來看看 2023 年全年與 2022 年全年的情況。2023 年調整後 EBITDA 為 5.973 億美元，比 2022 年的 4.281 億美元成長 40%。現在轉向租賃。租賃業另一個季度表現出色，EBITDA 約為 1.22 億美元。第四季 1.22 億美元的 EBITDA 中的純租賃部分為 9,900 萬美元，而第三季為 1.02 億美元。此外，在收購方面，我們以極具吸引力的價格收購了價值2.29億美元的新設備，包括10架飛機和33台發動機，這將有助於未來租賃EBITDA的進一步成長。

We're very comfortable in producing approximately $425 million of Leasing EBITDA for 2024, excluding projected gains on asset sales of approximately $50 million. Part of the $122 million in EBITDA for Leasing came from gains on asset sales. We sold $33.5 million book value of assets at a 40% margin for a gain of $22.7 million in the quarter, benefiting from exceptionally strong demand globally for our portfolio of assets. And we remain comfortable assuming gains on asset sales continuing at approximately $12.5 million per quarter or $50 million for all of 2024.

我們非常有信心在 2024 年實現約 4.25 億美元的租賃 EBITDA，其中不包括預計約 5,000 萬美元的資產銷售收益。租賃業務 1.22 億美元的 EBITDA 部分來自資產銷售收益。我們以 40% 的利潤率出售了帳面價值 3,350 萬美元的資產，本季收益達 2,270 萬美元，這得益於全球對我們資產組合的異常強勁的需求。我們仍然樂觀地假設資產銷售收益將持續保持在每季 1,250 萬美元左右，即 2024 年全年為 5,000 萬美元。

Aerospace Products had yet another excellent quarter with $54.6 million of EBITDA and an overall EBITDA margin of 34%. We sold 61 modules in Q4 to 17 unique customers comprised of six new customers and 11 repeat customers. We see tremendous potential in Aerospace Products and feel good about generating EBITDA for 2024 towards the middle or higher end of the $200 million to $250 million range.

航空航太產品公司又迎來了一個出色的季度，EBITDA 為 5,460 萬美元，整體 EBITDA 利潤率為 34%。我們在第四季向 17 個獨特客戶出售了 61 個模組，其中包括 6 個新客戶和 11 個回頭客。我們看到了航空航太產品的巨大潛力，並且對 2024 年 EBITDA 達到 2 億至 2.5 億美元範圍的中端或高端感到滿意。

We continue to expect strong growth in Aerospace Products as customers experience the clear benefits of our MRE products and programs. We are both expanding the number of customers and the usage per customer at an accelerating pace. Additionally, we are very pleased with the introduction, acceptance of and demand for our second focus engine, the V2500. With this, we have the ability to become the leading full-service aftermarket power provider for all 737NG and A320neo aircraft globally.

隨著客戶體驗到我們的 MRE 產品和計劃的明顯優勢，我們繼續預期航空航太產品將出現強勁成長。我們正在加速擴大客戶數量和每個客戶的使用量。此外，我們對第二個焦點引擎 V2500 的推出、接受和需求感到非常高興。藉此，我們有能力成為全球領先的為所有 737NG 和 A320neo 飛機提供全方位服務的售後電力提供者。

Overall, looking ahead, we continue to expect our annual aviation EBITDA for 2024 to be between $675 million to $725 million, not including corporate and other.

總體而言，展望未來，我們仍然預計 2024 年航空業的年度 EBITDA 將在 6.75 億美元至 7.25 億美元之間，不包括企業和其他。

With that, I will turn the call back to Alan.

這樣，我會將電話轉回艾倫。

Thank you, Joe. Michelle, you may now open the call to questions and answers.

謝謝你，喬。米歇爾，您現在可以開始提問和回答。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Kristine Liwag, Morgan Stanley.

克莉絲汀‧利瓦格，摩根士丹利。

Hey, good morning, everyone.

嘿，大家早安。

Good morning.

早安.

Hey, Joe. On the leasing portion, we saw a sequential decline in revenue. Can you talk about what drove this slight stepdown?

嘿，喬。在租賃部分，我們看到收入環比下降。您能談談是什麼導致了這種輕微的下降嗎？

Yes. The biggest driver was we had four aircraft A320s on lease to Bamboo Airlines, which we terminated in the third quarter last year. So they were taken back, they were off leased for Q4. And there'll be off leased for Q1. That revenue is about $5 million per quarter of EBITDA. And the reason we did that is the credit wasn't great.

是的。最大的推動因素是我們向越竹航空租賃了四架 A320 飛機，我們在去年第三季終止了租賃。因此，它們被收回，並在第四季度停止出租。第一季將停止出租。該收入約為每季 EBITDA 500 萬美元。我們這樣做的原因是信用不佳。

And we had other opportunities to put those out on lease at higher rates and better terms. And so ultimately, it's a very NPV positive for us, but it had a negative impact on revenues and EBITDA in Q4 and will also affect Q1 of 2024.

我們還有其他機會以更高的價格和更好的條件出租這些房屋。因此，最終，這對我們來說是一個非常積極的 NPV，但它對第四季度的收入和 EBITDA 產生了負面影響，也將影響 2024 年第一季。

Thanks. And you know, Joe, saying that you were able to release these assets at a higher monthly lease rates and better terms, can you talk about the overall environment that suggests that it seems like demand continues to outpace supply? So is there a general view when you've got assets up for re-lease, like how much of a step-up in the monthly lease rate are you seeing for those assets?

謝謝。你知道，喬，說你能夠以更高的月租率和更好的條款釋放這些資產，你能談談表明需求似乎繼續超過供應的整體環境嗎？那麼，當您重新租賃資產時，是否有一個普遍的看法，例如您認為這些資產的月租賃費會上漲多少？

Well, it depends on when the lease was originally done. But in general, lease rates for aircraft are up anywhere from 20% to 40%. So if the operator is either not a great operator or the operator isn't willing to pay market rates, then you move the assets. It's always more expensive to move than to keep it where it is, so you favor extensions over new leases. But in this case, we just didn't have confidence in the Company, so we decided it was better -- much better to move them.

嗯，這取決於租賃最初完成的時間。但總體而言，飛機租賃率上漲 20% 至 40% 不等。因此，如果營運商不是一個優秀的營運商，或者營運商不願意支付市場價格，那麼你就可以轉移資產。搬家總是比保留原地更昂貴，因此您更傾向於延長租約而不是新租約。但在這種情況下，我們只是對公司沒有信心，所以我們認為最好是讓他們搬走。

Great. Thanks. And if I could squeeze one last question. In the quarter, you were able to acquire 33 engines and 10 aircrafts. Can you talk about the availability of assets in the market? I guess to some degree you guys are very unique because you're the asset owner and you also have an MRO capability. Does this give you an edge in being able to buy assets that maybe other just pure leasing assets or operators may not be interested in?

偉大的。謝謝。如果我能問最後一個問題。本季度，您獲得了 33 台發動機和 10 架飛機。您能談談市場上資產的可用性嗎？我想在某種程度上你們是非常獨特的，因為你們是資產所有者，而且你們還擁有 MRO 能力。這是否使您能夠購買其他純租賃資產或營運商可能不感興趣的資產？

Yes, absolutely. We -- particularly on the engine side, if an engine is tagged unserviceable, it’s very -- there are very, very few buyers for that engine other than pure part-out companies, which typically pay very low prices. And so we're uniquely positioned because we can take an engine that's tagged unserviceable and repair it. And it could be -- the best situation is that it's unserviceable because of only one module, in which case we get the other two modules at a discount when it's really not. They shouldn't be trading at a discount, but they do because it's coupled with an unserviceable module.

是的，一點沒錯。我們——特別是在發動機方面，如果一台發動機被標記為無法使用，那麼除了純粹的零件公司之外，該發動機的買家非常非常少，這些公司通常支付非常低的價格。因此，我們處於獨特的地位，因為我們可以對標記為無法使用的引擎進行修復。可能是——最好的情況是它因為只有一個模組而無法使用，在這種情況下，我們可以以折扣價購買其他兩個模組，而實際上卻無法使用。他們不應該以折扣價進行交易，但他們這樣做是因為它與無法使用的模組相結合。

So we are -- we can buy anything. And so when people put up packages and some buyers like to nitpick, and they'll say, I want that one, I want that one, but I don't want that one. The seller is like, I don't want to deal with that. I want one buyer. And so we're able to acquire, I think, much more effectively than other people for that reason. There's nothing we can't digest.

所以我們——我們可以買任何東西。因此，當人們提出包裹時，一些買家喜歡吹毛求疵，他們會說，我想要那個，我想要那個，但我不想要那個。賣家說，我不想處理這件事。我想要一個買家。因此，我認為，出於這個原因，我們能夠比其他人更有效地獲取資訊。沒有什麼是我們消化不了的。

Great. Thank you for the color.

偉大的。謝謝你的顏色。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Josh Sullivan, The Benchmark Company.

喬許·沙利文，基準公司。

Hey, good morning.

嗨，早安。

Good morning.

早安.

So I just wanted to get some color on the market response for lease rents after the FAA put in the production cap on the MAX earlier this year. And I guess maybe it would be helpful to also understand just how lease rents have walked from pre-COVID levels to today?

因此，我只是想了解 FAA 在今年稍早對 MAX 設定產量上限後市場對租賃租金的反應。我想也許了解租賃租金是如何從新冠疫情前的水平發展到現在的水平會有所幫助？

Sure. David Moreno will take that.

當然。大衛·莫雷諾會接受這個。

Hi, Josh. So lease rates typically are $60,000 plus maintenance reserves. During COVID, there were special arrangements made, let's say power by the hour or rates that were $45,000 to $50,000 plus maintenance reserves. Those days are now long gone. Today --

嗨，喬許。因此，租賃費通常為 60,000 美元加上維護儲備金。在新冠疫情期間，做出了特殊安排，例如按小時供電或費率為 45,000 至 50,000 美元，外加維護儲備金。那些日子現在已經一去不復返了。今天--

(inaudible) CFM56 engine.

（聽不清楚）CFM56 引擎。

Yes, that's per engine. Yes. Today those days are long gone. Lease rates are up $75,000 plus maintenance reserves and those continue to rise as there's a shortage of CFM and V2500s today in the market.

是的，這是每個引擎的。是的。今天，那些日子已經一去不復返了。租賃費上漲了 75,000 美元，加上維護儲備金，並且由於目前市場上 CFM 和 V2500 短缺，租賃費繼續上漲。

And the cap, as you mentioned, the cap on the MAX production means that people are going to keep their NGs and CLs longer because they can't meet their growth projections with the new aircraft. So that cap is likely to extend the imbalance between supply and demand for at least a couple of years.

正如您所提到的，MAX 產量的上限意味著人們將保留 NG 和 CL 的時間更長，因為他們無法滿足新飛機的成長預測。因此，這一上限可能會導致供需失衡至少持續幾年。

And then secondly, I just -- I know you've talked about the parts business averaging around 35% EBITDA margins. Obviously, 50-plus is a good result this quarter in EBITDA. But what are the moving parts around, maybe EBITDA per module?

其次，我知道您已經談到了平均 EBITDA 利潤率約為 35% 的零件業務。顯然，本季 EBITDA 超過 50 是一個不錯的成績。但有哪些變化的部分，也許是每個模組的 EBITDA？

So it's a function of mix, certain modules we have higher margins on, particularly the core. It'll be a function on the size of the customer, and it'll be a function on the timing and the urgency with which they need the module. So it sort of all goes into the mix on a quarterly basis. And we've been averaging about $500,000 per module in each of the quarters.

所以這是一個混合的函數，我們在某些​​模組上有更高的利潤，特別是核心。這將是一個關於客戶規模的函數，也是一個關於他們需要該模組的時間和緊急程度的函數。所以這一切都是按季度進行的。每季我們每個模組的平均成本約為 50 萬美元。

We've had a couple of times where we've had some positive surprises because another reason is we often can buy things really cheaply. As I mentioned, when we buy a package of engines, we might end up with a very low basis in a module that produces an outsized gain for that reason. So -- but I would say that the $500,000 has been pretty steady over the last couple of years and it's a good assumption going forward until we have more PMA.

我們有過幾次驚喜，因為另一個原因是我們經常可以非常便宜地買到東西。正如我所提到的，當我們購買一套引擎時，我們最終可能會得到一個模組的基礎非常低，而該模組因此會產生巨大的增益。所以，但我想說，50 萬美元在過去幾年中一直相當穩定，在我們擁有更多 PMA 之前，這是一個很好的假設。

Great. Thank you for the time.

偉大的。謝謝你的時間。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Myles Walton, Wolfe Research.

邁爾斯·沃爾頓，沃爾夫研究中心。

Thanks. Joe, could you talk about the V2500 MRE program where it's being worked? How big could the contribution be? And then in respect to your comment that you -- your vision for FTAI is to be the leading full service aftermarket power provider globally for the NG and the -- or the CFM -- and the 56 and the V2500 engine, can you just give us a picture of what does that mean in terms of quantum, who is the leader today?

謝謝。Joe，您能談談正在實施的 V2500 MRE 計畫嗎？貢獻有多大？然後，關於您的評論，您對 FTAI 的願景是成為全球領先的 NG 和（或 CFM）以及 56 和 V2500 發動機的全方位服務售後電力提供商，您能否給出我們從量子角度了解這意味著什麼，誰是當今的領導者？

Sure. So maybe a bit of history. I mean, we have owned V2500 for several years, so it's not that we just discovered. We've had about 50 to 60 engines in the portfolio for a while. Starting about six months ago, we got particularly interested in it with the GTF powder metal issue coming on the scene, it was obvious that many of those V2500 operators who had thought they would be phasing those engines out over the next three years to four years, were going to end up keeping them much, much longer. And that's the main driver what peaked our interest in that engine.

當然。所以也許有一點歷史。我的意思是，我們已經擁有 V2500 好幾年了，所以這不是我們剛剛發現的。我們的產品組合中已有大約 50 至 60 款引擎一段時間了。從大約六個月前開始，我們對 GTF 粉末金屬問題特別感興趣，很明顯，許多 V2500 運營商認為他們將在未來三到四年內逐步淘汰這些發動機，我們最終會把它們保留得更久。這就是我們對該引擎興趣達到頂峰的主要驅動力。

So about six months ago, we started hiring people, building up our engineering talent expertise, talking to MRO partners, lining up assets to buy. And it's been very, very successful. It's all in place, probably a lot better than I would have ever expected as the demand for shop visits is extremely high. And a lot of operators either don't have the capital or the ability to shop those engines today. So there's a tremendous opportunity for us to step in and do that. We have today about 15 engines in maintenance shops. We're using two different shops right now.

因此，大約六個月前，我們開始招募人員，建立我們的工程人才專業知識，與 MRO 合作夥伴交談，排隊購買資產。它非常非常成功。一切都已就緒，可能比我預期的要好得多，因為參觀商店的需求非常高。如今，許多運營商要么沒有資金，要么沒有能力購買這些發動機。因此，我們有一個巨大的機會介入並做到這一點。今天，我們的維修車間大約有 15 台引擎。我們現在使用兩家不同的商店。

There's multiple providers that we've discussed, and we're sort of -- it's a bit of a test drive right now where we're -- we've got some very attractive short term deals. And ultimately, we will select probably a long term partner on the MRO side or two to work with over the next few years, but we haven't done that fully. We also are very close on a large fleet deal where we would take over the management of engines on over 30 aircraft for an airline, V2500s, and we would then be responsible for engine exchanges. So as we have used the term MRE, we maintain, repair and then exchange.

我們已經討論過多家供應商，而且我們現在有點試駕，我們已經獲得了一些非常有吸引力的短期交易。最終，我們可能會在 MRO 方面選擇一個或兩個長期合作夥伴，在未來幾年內進行合作，但我們還沒有完全做到這一點。我們還非常接近一項大型機隊交易，我們將接管一家航空公司 30 多架飛機 V2500 的發動機管理，然後我們將負責發動機更換。正如我們使用術語 MRE 一樣，我們維護、修理然後更換。

So when an engine is run out, needs a shop visit, the airline gives that back to us and we give them an engine that's been through a performance restoration, has hours and cycles that they need to keep flying. So that we're fairly close on, I expect in the next few weeks. And we have a couple of other deals like that. So the prospects are pretty exciting and it does sort of give us a complete offering for anybody that operates a 737NG or an A320ceo, we can provide CFM56 or V2500 power.

因此，當發動機耗盡、需要上門維修時，航空公司會將其返還給我們，我們為他們提供經過性能恢復、具有繼續飛行所需的小時數和周期的發動機。因此，我預計在接下來的幾週內，我們已經相當接近了。我們還有其他一些類似的交易。因此，前景非常令人興奮，它確實為我們為任何操作 737NG 或 A320ceo 的人提供了完整的產品，我們可以提供 CFM56 或 V2500 動力。

And that really is -- our mission is to provide to airlines flexibility in the power they need, so that we always have an engine available if they need it. And if they have too many, they give it back to us without a fight over return compensation. So that's very compelling for a lot of airlines. And then we provide them immediate and tangible cost savings because they don't have to manage a shop visit, they don't have to have an engineering department, they don't have to go provision spares, and they don't have to find out that the shop visit they thought was going to cost a million dollars cost $4 million.

事實上，我們的使命是為航空公司提供所需動力的靈活性，以便我們始終能夠在他們需要時提供可用的引擎。如果他們有太多，他們就會把它還給我們，而不會因為退貨補償而發生爭執。這對許多航空公司來說非常有吸引力。然後，我們為他們提供立竿見影的成本節省，因為他們不必管理商店訪問，他們不必擁有工程部門，他們不必提供備件，也不必發現他們原以為要花費 100 萬美元的商店參觀卻花費了 400 萬美元。

So there's a growing recognition that that is an easy thing for airlines to buy into, is we can save them time and money and provide them great flexibility, as we say to them, what don't you like about that? Which part of it is unpalatable? And there isn't a part that's unpalatable. So it's a great sell and that's what we're shooting for as our reason for being as a company is to provide that leading provider of aftermarket power to the global industry for those aircraft. In terms of contribution next year, I mean, I think the V2500 should add $25 million of EBITDA easily with some upside.

因此，人們越來越認識到，這對航空公司來說是一件容易接受的事情，我們可以為他們節省時間和金錢，並為他們提供極大的靈活性，正如我們對他們所說的，你不喜歡這一點嗎？哪一部分不好吃？而且沒有一個部分是不好吃的。所以這是一個很好的銷售，這就是我們的目標，因為我們作為一家公司的理由是為這些飛機的全球行業提供售後市場動力的領先提供者。就明年的貢獻而言，我的意思是，我認為 V2500 應該可以輕鬆增加 2500 萬美元的 EBITDA，而且還有一些上升空間。

So we're still early on and as I mentioned, we got a couple of large deals that could swing it one way or another, but it's off and running and I think very well received and great timing because of the need for that engine.

因此，我們還處於早期階段，正如我所提到的，我們達成了幾筆大型交易，可能會以某種方式改變它，但它已經啟動並運行，我認為由於需要該引擎，因此受到了很好的歡迎和很好的時機。

Guiliano Bologna, Compass Point.

吉利亞諾·博洛尼亞，指南針點。

All right, congratulations on another great quarter. For my first question, I'm curious why you think you're seeing accelerated acceptance in the aerospace area?

好吧，恭喜又一個偉大的季度。對於我的第一個問題，我很好奇為什麼您認為航空航太領域的接受度正在加速？

Well, I think people that have used it have experienced the fact that they've saved time and money and they have a great amount of flexibility and they often come back afterwards and say, I wish I had known about this before. I mean, why wouldn't I want to do this? And so that once people experience, the ease with which they can avoid a shop visit, which is usually very painful for people. No one I've talked to in the airline industry ever has told me after a shop visit, that was a great experience.

嗯，我認為使用過它的人已經體驗到這樣一個事實：他們節省了時間和金錢，並且具有很大的靈活性，他們經常在事後回來說，我希望我以前就知道這一點。我的意思是，我為什麼不想這麼做呢？這樣一來，一旦人們體驗到了，他們就可以輕鬆地避免去商店，而這通常對人們來說是非常痛苦的。與我在航空業交談過的人都沒有人在參觀商店後告訴我，這是一次很棒的體驗。

So they all have scars, and I think what we provide is the easy button, and it's caught on. And then word of mouth also helps because once one airline does it and they go to conferences and they have people in their engineering departments of other airlines, they tell them, you should look at this and it worked really well. All of that just keeps building the momentum.

所以他們都有傷疤，我認為我們提供的是簡單的按鈕，而且它很受歡迎。然後口碑也有幫助，因為一旦一家航空公司這樣做了，他們去參加會議，並且他們在其他航空公司的工程部門有人員，他們告訴他們，你應該看看這個，效果非常好。所有這些都在不斷增強勢頭。

That's great. And then, an inevitable question. Can you give us an update on the PMA initiative and program?

那太棒了。然後，一個不可避免的問題。您能給我們介紹一下 PMA 倡議和計劃的最新情況嗎？

Sure. So great progress continues. We're very happy with the development and what we've seen in the test results, which actually speaks to the performance of those underlying parts when they're in operation, which is critical and very important. So all good on that. Obviously, on the timing side, the FAA runs a very rigorous process. It's been an extremely successful program for them, PMA.

當然。如此巨大的進步仍在繼續。我們對開發以及在測試結果中看到的結果感到非常滿意，這實際上說明了這些底層部件在運行時的性能，這是至關重要且非常重要的。所以一切都很好。顯然，在時間方面，美國聯邦航空局運作著非常嚴格的流程。對他們來說，PMA 是一個非常成功的計畫。

They've never had any safety issues, but they are extremely careful and thorough. So it's inherently very difficult to predict when the actual completion of those approval processes are received. But we're very excited and we definitely are 100% sure it's worth the wait.

他們從未遇到任何安全問題，但他們非常小心和徹底。因此，很難預測何時收到這些審批流程的實際完成。但我們非常興奮，我們絕對 100% 確信這是值得等待的。

That's very helpful. And then one last one. Are you still seeing discounts for off-lease assets? It looks like you bought a lot of off-lease assets in the fourth quarter?

這非常有幫助。然後是最後一張。您是否仍看到租賃資產的折扣？看來您在第四季購買了許多租賃資產？

Yes. As I mentioned, if you have an asset that needs maintenance, you immediately -- if it's off lease and it needs maintenance, you've narrowed the field of buyers down to like a handful of people. And so that's -- that dynamic has not yet changed. And I'm not sure it will.

是的。正如我所提到的，如果你有一項資產需要維護，你會立即——如果它已經租約到期並且需要維護，你就將買家範圍縮小到了少數人。所以，這種動態尚未改變。我不確定它會。

I think people are still, most of the people we see in the marketplace with capital to invest are looking for assets that are on lease that don't need maintenance. So that's really where we -- and as I said, we can fix anything. And we relish fixing things because that's how you add value.

我認為人們仍然是，我們在市場上看到的大多數有資本投資的人都在尋找不需要維護的租賃資產。所以這確實是我們的目標——正如我所說，我們可以解決任何問題。我們喜歡修復問題，因為這就是增加價值的方式。

Okay. That's very helpful. Thank you so much and I will jump back into the queue.

好的。這非常有幫助。非常感謝，我會重新加入隊列。

Frank Galanti, Stifel.

弗蘭克·加蘭蒂，斯蒂菲爾。

Great. Thank you for taking my questions. I wanted to talk about sort of FTAI Aviation competitive positioning in the module swap business. So first on the V2500, do you see not having PMA -- first party PMA? If you sort of talk about that dynamic relative to the CFM56.

偉大的。感謝您回答我的問題。我想談談 FTAI Aviation 在模組交換業務中的競爭定位。那麼首先在 V2500 上，您是否看到沒有 PMA（第一方 PMA）？如果你談論一下相對於 CFM56 的動態。

And then from a broader perspective, it's my understanding that you can get module swaps from other people, other MROs, other airlines with MROs to do module swaps and that this is sort of not a new function. And so from my perspective, it feels like PMA is the sort of competitive advantage here. And I don't see that or the modularity on the V2500s relative to the CFM56. Sort of my perception of it, can you sort of talk about where I'm misunderstanding that or those dynamics?

然後從更廣泛的角度來看，我的理解是，你可以從其他人、其他 MRO、其他擁有 MRO 的航空公司獲得模組交換，這並不是一個新功能。因此，從我的角度來看，PMA 似乎是這裡的競爭優勢。我沒有看到 V2500 相對於 CFM56 的模組化程度。我對此的看法，你能談談我在哪裡誤解了它或那些動態嗎？

Sure. Well, there's a couple of concepts in there that are mixed together, but there is PMA available for the V2500. So that's an option for us to be able to utilize PMA. We don't have the same arrangement where we develop the PMA, so we would be more of a consumer on a commercial basis with the manufacturers if we decided to use that. So that's an opportunity for cost savings on the V2500. There are other opportunities such as use serviceable material that we have a good line of sight to be able to utilize.

當然。嗯，其中有幾個概念混合在一起，但 PMA 可用於 V2500。因此，這是我們能夠利用 PMA 的一個選擇。我們沒有與開發 PMA 相同的安排，因此如果我們決定使用它，我們將更多地成為製造商的商業基礎上的消費者。因此，這是 V2500 節省成本的機會。還有其他機會，例如使用我們擁有良好視線的可用材料。

There are some repairs that we are working on and our engineering team is working on. There are favorable agreements that we've struck with some of the maintenance shops. And so when you add it all up, and it's not the same playbook exactly as a CFM56, but it's the same process of going through the cost of shop visiting and figuring out where you can take out costs and where you can do things smarter and better.

我們和我們的工程團隊正在進行一些修復工作。我們與一些維修店達成了有利的協議。因此，當你把所有這些加起來時，你會發現它與CFM56 並不完全一樣，但它是同樣的過程，即計算去商店的成本，並弄清楚你可以在哪裡減少成本，在哪裡可以更聰明地做事，更好的。

We think we can perform a full restoration of the V2500, which today has a full list price of about $10 million. We think we can do that for $7.5 million. So it's roughly about a $2.5 million savings available for to be either for us or for our customers or for both of us. If you compare that on the CFM56, the savings with full PMA, availability on our favorable terms, as shop visits say, is roughly about $6.8 million, and we think we can bring that in a little, about $3.25 million or so. So it's -- dollar amount-wise CFM is better, and it's percentage-wise better, but V2500 is still good.

我們認為我們可以對 V2500 進行全面修復，目前其完整標價約為 1000 萬美元。我們認為只需 750 萬美元就可以做到這一點。因此，對於我們、我們的客戶或我們雙方來說，大約可以節省 250 萬美元。如果您在 CFM56 上進行比較，根據我們的優惠條件（如參觀商店所說），完全 PMA 節省的成本約為 680 萬美元，我們認為我們可以節省一點，大約 325 萬美元左右。因此，從金額角度來看，CFM 更好，從百分比角度來看，V2500 仍然不錯。

The second question was about module availability. And there are -- you can find modules on an ad hoc basis from an MRO. We actually buy some -- we bought modules from MROs and they buy from us and because you don't always have the module you're looking for in inventory. So that is one of the competitive advantages of our module factories.

第二個問題是關於模組可用性。您可以從 MRO 臨時找到模組。我們實際上購買了一些——我們從 MRO 購買了模組，他們也從我們這裡購買，因為庫存中並不總是有您正在尋找的模組。所以這是我們模組廠的競爭優勢之一。

We have in our fleet over 400 CFM engines. That's 1,200 modules. There's no one that has anywhere near that availability that I'm aware of. So inventories of modules in a repaired state is a competitive advantage. And I say repaired state because we do repair them and restore them. And if they're not repaired, then they're pretty worthless from an airline's point of view. So It's a package. It's all of those things above. And when we say -- people say, what are you?

我們的機隊擁有 400 多台 CFM 發動機。那是 1,200 個模組。據我所知，沒有人具有接近這種可用性的能力。因此，處於修復狀態的模組庫存是一種競爭優勢。我說修復狀態是因為我們確實修復並恢復了它們。如果它們不被修復，那麼從航空公司的角度來看它們就毫無價值。所以這是一個包。就是上面這些事情了。當我們說──人們說，你是什麼？

And we say, well, we're an MRE. We maintain, repair, and exchange, which is very different than anybody else in the industry. And then we combine that with the ability to provide power, we have the ability to deliver what I think is our ultimate competitive advantage, which is flexibility and cost savings. That's our pitch.

我們說，好吧，我們是 MRE。我們進行維護、維修和更換，這與業內其他公司截然不同。然後，我們將其與提供電力的能力相結合，我們有能力提供我認為是我們最終的競爭優勢，即靈活性和成本節約。這就是我們的主張。

Okay, that's helpful. Sort of thinking about the customer experience then a little further on the on the module side, in the last -- I guess in 4Q ‘22, the deck had said that you guys had sold over 100 modules to 26 customers. And based on this release, it said 178 modules to 30 customers. And if you sort of go through the press releases and look at each sort of quarter, you said there are new customers, there are five or two or six in this quarter.

好的，這很有幫助。有點考慮客戶體驗，然後在模組方面更進一步，在最後 - 我想在 22 年第四季度，甲板上說你們已經向 26 個客戶出售了 100 多個模組。根據此次發布，據稱向 30 名客戶提供了 178 個模組。如果你仔細閱讀新聞稿並查看每個季度，你會說有新客戶，這個季度有五、二或六個。

You sort of add those up to 26, you get to 40. So is that -- so from my understanding then, there were 30 customers, 26 customers in 2022, 30 customers in ‘23, but that sort of leaves 10 customers that didn't come back in ‘23. Is that the right way to think about those numbers? If you sort of talk about from their perspective why that would be, if you sort of saw that customers going away in a year?

你把這些加起來就是 26 個，就是 40 個。根據我當時的了解，有 30 個客戶，2022 年有 26 個客戶，2023 年有 30 個客戶，但剩下 10 個客戶在 23 年沒有回來。這是思考這些數字的正確方式嗎？如果你從他們的角度談論為什麼會這樣，如果你看到客戶在一年內消失？

No, I don't think the numbers are exactly right. But there are times where a customer to be a repeat customer has to have a need. So not every customer is a repeat customer every quarter. So in other words, if you don't have a shop visit, you don't need a module. So it's a timing issue. I think what we've said is we have a very, very high level of repeat customer business, but sometimes you might have a customer that goes out of business.

不，我認為這些數字並不完全正確。但有時，要成為回頭客，顧客必須有需求。因此，並非每個客戶每季都是回頭客。換句話說，如果您沒有去商店參觀，則不需要模組。所以這是一個時間問題。我認為我們所說的是我們擁有非常非常高水準的回頭客業務，但有時你可能會有一個客戶倒閉。

So you can't have a 100% repeat customer in every quarter. It just doesn't happen that way. You have to have the need. But it's been very, very high. The customers that have used our modules have always said that was a great experience and I would like to do that again. And they will do it again when they have a need.

所以你不可能每季都有 100% 的回頭客。事實並非如此。你必須有這個需要。但它已經非常非常高了。使用過我們模組的客戶總是說這是一次很棒的體驗，我想再次這樣做。當他們有需要時，他們會再做一次。

Okay, great. Thank you for taking my questions. Appreciate it.

好的，太好了。感謝您回答我的問題。欣賞它。

Yes.

是的。

Brian McKenna, Citizens JMP.

Brian McKenna，公民 JMP。

Okay, great. Thanks. Good morning everyone. So it's great to see another very strong quarter within aerospace products. So within the $55 million of adjusted EBITDA in the fourth quarter, was there any year-end seasonality or any one-off benefits? Or is it really just continued strength across the business given just increasing levels of demand for the products and services? And I'm just trying to get a sense of a good jumping off point for the segment to start 2024.

好的，太好了。謝謝。大家，早安。因此，很高興看到航空航太產品領域又一個非常強勁的季度。那麼，在第四季度 5500 萬美元的調整後 EBITDA 中，是否存在任何年終季節性因素或任何一次性收益？或者，考慮到對產品和服務的需求不斷增加，這真的只是整個業務的持續成長嗎？我只是想了解該細分市場從 2024 年開始的一個好起點。

Yes. So I think we mentioned to people there was a one-time $5 million write-up in the value of QuickTurn.

是的。所以我想我們已經向人們提到 QuickTurn 的價值一次性增記了 500 萬美元。

That's right. So we made an initial investment in QuickTurn in January and then bought -- consolidated and bought the remaining interest in December. But accounting requires you to revalue your initial investment to fair value at the time of consolidation. So that resulted in a one-time non-cash accounting gain of about $5 million.

這是正確的。因此，我們在一月份對 QuickTurn 進行了初始投資，然後在 12 月合併並購買了剩餘權益。但會計要求您在合併時將初始投資重新評估為公允價值。這樣就產生了約 500 萬美元的一次性非現金會計收益。

I don't think we experienced any seasonality in the fourth quarter, and I don't think we have enough history and market penetration to actually to see what seasonality effects there will be on that business yet. It's still growing too fast.

我認為我們在第四季度沒有經歷任何季節性，而且我認為我們沒有足夠的歷史和市場滲透率來實際了解季節性對該業務的影響。它仍然增長得太快。

Yes, got it. Okay, great. And then, just broadly, the business clearly is reaching new levels of scale every quarter here. And so if I look out over the next couple of years, cash flow is really going to take another stair step higher. So how should we think about the CapEx needs of the business over time, the absolute level of cash needed for investment back into the business.

是的，明白了。好的，太好了。然後，從廣義上講，該業務顯然每個季度都達到了新的規模水平。因此，如果我展望未來幾年，現金流確實會再上一個階梯。那麼，我們應該如何考慮企業隨著時間的推移的資本支出需求，即投資回企業所需的現金絕對水準。

And again, I'm just trying to get a sense of how you're thinking about the timing of maybe generating some excess cash flow, and then what some of the uses of that excess liquidity will be.

再說一遍，我只是想了解您如何考慮可能產生一些過剩現金流的時機，以及這些過剩流動性的一些用途。

Sure. So from the cash flow availability, we think about it as, if you start with EBITDA and you strip out gain on sale and then you deduct maintenance CapEx for the engines, which is what you would need to do to keep the engines flying in repaired condition, we think that number is about between $60 million and $80 million per annum. So that leaves, $300-plus-million available capital to do whatever we want with. So therefore, our priorities have been to manage to a strong BB rating, and we think we should achieve that.

當然。因此，從現金流的可用性來看，我們認為，如果你從 EBITDA 開始，剔除銷售收益，然後扣除發動機的維護資本支出，這是你需要做的，以保持發動機在維修中飛行在這種情況下，我們認為這個數字約為每年6,000 萬至8,000 萬美元。這樣就剩下 3 億多美元的可用資金來做我們想做的事了。因此，我們的首要任務是獲得強大的 BB 評級，我們認為我們應該實現這一目標。

And we're there with two agencies already, but we want to be upgraded, so we want to maintain the strong coverages. Second is to do new deals. And obviously, we have a new engine now, the V2500. So we'll be investing capital in more V2500s. Today, we own about 60. I would expect we will own probably 150 to 200 of those engines by the end of this year. So that's an opportunity for us to invest, but it's discretionary.

我們已經有兩家機構，但我們希望升級，因此我們希望保持強大的覆蓋範圍。二是做新交易。顯然，我們現在有了一款新發動機，V2500。因此，我們將投資更多的 V2500。今天，我們擁有大約 60 個。我預計到今年年底我們將擁有大約 150 到 200 台這樣的引擎。所以這對我們來說是一個投資機會，但這是可自由決定的。

And then thirdly, when we generate cash, we would look to either stock buybacks or dividends for excess capital. So those are the priorities. I think it's -- this year is still a pretty active investing opportunity. So I think we'll see some really good deals, which I think will be accretive and generate very good results for shareholders. So we don't see a lack of investment opportunities at this point.

第三，當我們產生現金時，我們會尋求股票回購或股利來獲得多餘的資本。所以這些是優先事項。我認為今年仍然是一個相當活躍的投資機會。因此，我認為我們會看到一些非常好的交易，我認為這些交易將帶來增值並為股東帶來非常好的結果。因此，我們目前並不認為缺乏投資機會。

Got it. Thanks, Joe.

知道了。謝謝，喬。

David Zazula, Barclays

大衛‧札祖拉，巴克萊銀行

Hey, good morning, Joe. Thanks for taking my question. First one is cash position, a little bit stronger. Could you talk about the near-term kind of working capital needs and near-term working capital intensity, given that you're expanding the product's business out? Has that changed what you're thinking for working capital, the needs of cash, and the revolver capacity you have in the near term?

嘿，早上好，喬。感謝您提出我的問題。第一個是現金狀況，稍微強一點。鑑於您正在擴展產品業務，您能否談談近期的營運資金需求和近期營運資金強度？這是否改變了您對近期營運資金、現金需求和左輪手槍產能的看法？

No, I mean, we had -- at year end, we had $90 million of cash, $300 million undrawn on the revolvers, so almost $400 million of available liquidity. I think we have $200 million of LOIs in the pipeline right now for deals. And so we're good. And we'll also -- we'll generate some more cash by selling assets throughout the year. So don't see any significant needs or issues at this point.

不，我的意思是，到年底，我們有 9000 萬美元的現金，還有 3 億美元未動用的左輪手槍，所以有近 4 億美元的可用流動資金。我認為我們目前正在準備 2 億美元的交易意向書。所以我們很好。我們還將透過全年出售資產來產生更多現金。因此，目前看不到任何重大需求或問題。

Great. And then with the FAA, you talked about PMA kind of broadly the process, but specifically the changes of leadership of the FAA and then with the FAA having kind of new focus around Boeing and having to shift some resources there, do you see either of those events kind of impacting your PMA process over the near medium term?

偉大的。然後，您與 FAA 談到了 PMA 的廣泛流程，但具體來說是 FAA 領導層的變化，然後 FAA 將新的重點放在波音公司上，並且必須將一些資源轉移到那裡，您是否認為其中之一這些事件在中期內會影響您的PMA 流程嗎？

I think that the main issues that the FAA had from our perspective were during COVID. There was just long turnaround times and they lost -- they had high turnover of personnel, some experienced personnel. So those problems have been addressed and have been largely fixed from what we see.

我認為從我們的角度來看，美國聯邦航空局面臨的主要問題是在新冠疫情期間。只是周轉時間很長，他們輸了——他們的人員流動率很高，其中一些是經驗豐富的人員。因此，從我們所看到的情況來看，這些問題已經解決並且基本上已解決。

So the other issues that you mentioned, a new administrator and the [max have not had] (inaudible) we have no sign that there's any impact from either of those. But the main thing was the staffing and the people coming into the office thing, which has been addressed.

因此，您提到的其他問題，新管理員和 [max 沒有]（聽不清楚），我們沒有跡象表明其中任何一個都會產生任何影響。但最重要的是人員配置和進入辦公室的人員問題，這個問題已經解決。

Great. Thanks very much.

偉大的。非常感謝。

Sherif Elmaghrabi, BTIG.

謝里夫·埃爾馬格拉比，BTIG。

Hey, good morning. Thanks for squeezing me in. So I want to start with the well intervention vessels. It looks like those didn't work during the quarter. How are you thinking about these assets, especially given the well interventions going through a bit of an upcycle and that's cash that could be recycled into the portfolio?

嗨，早安。謝謝你把我擠進去。所以我想從修井船開始。看起來這些在本季沒有發揮作用。您如何看待這些資產，特別是考慮到油井幹預措施正在經歷一段升級週期，而這些現金可以回收到投資組合中？

Yes, you're correct. It was a bit of a headwind for us in the fourth quarter that both vessels were off hire. The Pioneer, the smaller vessel, is now on hire. It started its charter in December, I think. And that should generate about $6 million a year in EBITDA. So that’s -- and that's now on a five-year charter, so it's in good shape. And we're actively marketing that vessel for sale.

是的，你是對的。第四季度，兩艘船都停租了，這對我們來說有點不利。較小的先鋒號 (Pioneer) 現已出租。我想它是在 12 月開始製定章程的。每年應產生約 600 萬美元的 EBITDA。所以現在是五年期，所以狀況良好。我們正在積極推銷該船以供出售。

The other vessel, the Pride, they had a breakdown, a maintenance event on the crane. It's still in repair until March. And we expect that there's a charter in place for that to go on hire in April, which is actually a pretty good charter. So you will see continuing headwinds in the first quarter and then hopefully both vessels will be on higher in the second quarter and onward and we hope to sell both vessels hopefully this year.

另一艘船「驕傲號」發生了故障，起重機發生了維護事件。直到三月還在維修。我們預計四月將有一份可供出租的章程，這實際上是一個非常好的章程。因此，您將在第一季看到持續的逆風，然後希望兩艘船在第二季及以後的表現會​​更好，我們希望今年能出售這兩艘船。

That's helpful. And then just on the 2025 notes coming due early next year, are you planning to pay that down and reduce leverage or could we see those refinanced sooner?

這很有幫助。然後，就明年初到期的 2025 年票據而言，您是否計劃支付首付款並降低槓桿率，或者我們是否可以更快地看到這些票據的再融資？

It was actually late next year, I think.

我想實際上是明年年底。

October of next year.

明年十月。

Yes. So that -- we have a lot of time, we have over 18 months. And we evaluate the market from time to time and think about those, but there's not a real important deadline yet, so we're monitoring it.

是的。所以——我們有很多時間，我們有超過 18 個月的時間。我們會不時評估市場並思考這些問題，但目前還沒有真正重要的最後期限，因此我們正在監控。

Okay, thanks very much everyone.

好的，非常感謝大家。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Thank you. That concludes the question and answer session. I'd like to turn the call back over to Alan Andreini for any closing remarks.

謝謝。問答環節到此結束。我想將電話轉回給艾倫·安德烈尼 (Alan Andreini)，讓其結束語。

Thank you, Michelle, and thank you all for participating in today's conference call. We look forward to updating you after Q1.

謝謝米歇爾，也謝謝大家參加今天的電話會議。我們期待在第一季之後向您提供最新消息。

Thank you for your participation. This does conclude the program and you may now disconnect. Everyone, have a great day.

感謝您的參與。這確實結束了程序，您現在可以斷開連接。大家，祝你有美好的一天。