Primis Financial Corp (FRST) 2026 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. My name is Colby, and I'll be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome you to the Primis Financial Corp., first-quarter earnings call. (Operator Instructions)

各位女士、先生，感謝您稍候。我是 Colby，今天將擔任本次電話會議的接線員。此刻，我謹代表 Primis Financial Corp.，歡迎各位參加第一季財報電話會議。（接線員指示）

I'll now turn the call over to Matthew Switzer. You may begin.

我現在把電話交給 Matthew Switzer。您可以開始了。

Good morning, and thank you for joining us for Primis Financial Corp.'s 2026 first-quarter webcast and conference call. Before we begin, please note that many of our comments during this call will be forward-looking statements, which involve risk and uncertainty. There are many factors that can cause actual results to differ materially from the anticipated results or other expectations expressed in the forward-looking statements.

各位早安，感謝各位參加 Primis Financial Corp. 2026 年第一季網路直播與電話會議。在開始之前，請注意，我們在本次會議中的許多評論將屬於前瞻性陳述，並涉及風險與不確定性。有許多因素可能導致實際結果與前瞻性陳述中所預期的結果或其他期望出現重大差異。

Further discussion of the company's risk factors and other important information regarding our forward-looking statements are part of our recent filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including our recently filed earnings release, which has also been posted to the Investor Relations section of our corporate site, primisbank.com. We undertake no obligation to update or revise forward-looking statements to reflect changes in assumptions, the occurrence of unanticipated events, or changes to future operating results over time.

關於本公司風險因素以及與前瞻性陳述相關的其他重要資訊，已載於我們近期向美國證券交易委員會（SEC）提交的申報文件中，包括我們最近提交的財報新聞稿；該新聞稿亦已發布於我們公司網站 primisbank.com 的投資人關係專區。我們不承擔更新或修訂前瞻性陳述之義務，以反映假設的變動、未預期事件的發生，或未來營運結果隨時間的變化。

In addition, some of the financial measures that we may discuss this morning are non-GAAP financial measures. How a non-GAAP measure relates to the most comfortable GAAP measure will be discussed when the non-GAAP measure used is not readily apparent.

此外，我們今天早上可能討論的部分財務衡量指標屬於非 GAAP 財務指標。當所使用的非 GAAP 指標與最可比的 GAAP 指標之關係並非一目了然時，我們將說明其對應關係。

I will now turn the call over to our President and Chief Executive Officer, Dennis Zember.

我現在把電話交給我們的總裁兼執行長 Dennis Zember。

Thank you, Matt. Thank you for all of you that have joined our first-quarter conference call.

謝謝你，Matt。也感謝各位參加我們的第一季電話會議。

We're excited to report that in the first quarter, we earned $7.3 million or $0.30 per share, which compares to $22.6 million and $0.92 per share in the same quarter of '25. And as I'm reading that, excited to report earnings shrinking that much. The fact of the matter is, on an operating basis, we earned $0.33 per share in the first quarter, which excluded a small tax adjustment related to 2025 results. And when you compare that to same quarter a year ago, it's up 126% operating earnings, where we reported $0.14 in the same quarter of '25. And Matt may mention this, but the first quarter of '25 included a substantial gain on the deconsolidation of Panacea, which is what I'm excluding.

我們很高興報告，第一季我們獲利 730 萬美元，或每股 0.30 美元；相較之下，2025 年同季為 2,260 萬美元、每股 0.92 美元。我一邊念到這裡，一邊想著：很高興報告獲利縮水這麼多。事實上，以營運基礎來看，我們第一季每股盈餘為 0.33 美元，已排除一項與 2025 年結果相關的小額稅務調整。若與一年前同季相比，營運獲利成長 126%，因為 2025 年同季我們報告的是每股 0.14 美元。Matt 可能會提到，2025 年第一季包含因 Panacea 去合併（deconsolidation）而產生的一筆可觀收益，這也是我所排除的項目。

Our key operating ratios obviously improved alongside of that earnings number I just gave you. On an operating basis, our ROA improved to 84 basis points compared to 40 basis points in the same quarter of '25. Driving that were a couple of items, margin mostly and as well as operating expense control. On net interest margin, our net interest margin benefited from the securities restructure as well as the mix of earning assets and climbed to 3.43% in the first quarter, compared to 3.15% in the same quarter of '25.

我們的關鍵營運比率也顯然隨著我剛才提供的獲利數字而改善。以營運基礎計算，我們的資產報酬率（ROA）提升至 84 個基點，而 2025 年同季為 40 個基點。推動因素有幾項，主要是利差，另外還有營運費用控管。在淨利息利差方面，我們的淨利息利差受惠於證券重整以及生息資產組合，第一季攀升至 3.43%，相較 2025 年同季的 3.15%。

We continue to put up nice growth numbers that are manageable but really distinguish us amongst our peer group. Loans ended at $3.4 billion, up 11.7% compared to the same quarter in '26 (sic - '25). That excludes about $40 million or so, that math that we moved into loans held for sale related to a flow agreement with Panacea. So really, our growth was probably stronger than this.

我們持續繳出不錯且可控的成長數字，並且確實讓我們在同業群中脫穎而出。貸款期末餘額為 34 億美元，較 2026 年同季（註：應為 2025 年）成長 11.7%。此數字不包含約 4,000 萬美元左右、因與 Panacea 的流量協議（flow agreement）而轉入「待售貸款」（loans held for sale）的部分。因此，實際上我們的成長可能比這個數字更強。

Deposit growth over the same period is really what you should look at. That came in at just better than 8%, with very little of that from the digital platform, which is pretty steady state at about $1 billion. The growth in checking accounts in our company was even more notable, with non-interest-bearing checking accounts growing to $541 million, which is almost 19% higher than where we were in '25. Checking accounts continued to be a more meaningful element of our deposit mix and were 15.9% of total deposits compared to just 14.2% in the first quarter of '25.

同期間的存款成長才是你們真正應該關注的。存款成長略高於 8%，其中來自數位平台的增量很少；該平台大致維持穩態，約為 10 億美元。我們公司支票存款的成長更為顯著，無息支票存款成長至 5.41 億美元，較 2025 年水準高出將近 19%。支票存款持續成為我們存款組合中更重要的元素，占總存款的 15.9%，而 2025 年第一季僅為 14.2%。

And lastly, it's very important to note that we grew deposits in this strong a fashion and never once felt pressured in our Core Bank or on our digital platform to be more aggressive on rate. We're doing it with technology, with service, with people. We're getting in front of folks, focusing on commercial deposits and having real success.

最後，非常重要的一點是：我們能以如此強勁的方式成長存款，無論在核心銀行（Core Bank）或數位平台上，都從未感受到必須在利率上更具侵略性的壓力。我們是靠科技、服務與人才做到的。我們主動接觸客戶，聚焦商業存款，並取得實質成功。

All of the energy and momentum on our balance sheet really starts at our Core Bank. There's never been a time since I came to the Primis that our Core Bank has had this opportunity on both sides of the balance sheet. Honestly, we're winning business that, several years ago, we just wouldn't have been in the running for or maybe even had a conversation about.

我們資產負債表上的所有活力與動能，確實都是從核心銀行開始的。自從我來到 Primis 以來，核心銀行從未像現在這樣，在資產負債表兩端都擁有這樣的機會。坦白說，我們正在贏得一些業務——在幾年前，我們根本不會有機會競爭，甚至可能連對話都不會發生。

Virtually nothing that we're doing to win this business has to do with rates or fees. We're leaning hard into our technology, our service, our people, our existing customers who are turning out to be amazing centers of influence for us. For so long, it felt like we were -- that all we were doing here is working on our factory and stuff in the factory. But today, stuff is rolling off that assembly line faster and faster, and I'm very encouraged by what our people are accomplishing.

我們為了贏得這些業務所做的事情，幾乎都與利率或費用無關。我們大力投入科技、服務、人才，以及我們既有客戶——他們正成為我們極佳的影響力中心（centers of influence）。很長一段時間，我們感覺自己——在這裡所做的一切都只是把工廠打磨好、把工廠裡的事情做好。但今天，產品正以越來越快的速度從產線下線，我對我們團隊的成果感到非常振奮。

Mortgage Warehouse has fully replaced Life Premium Finance at this point and has been so well received in the marketplace. We finished the quarter with about $460 million outstanding. And for a few days in the quarter, at near the end of March, we crested $0.5 billion outstanding. This is before any refi boom. This is before the busy spring and summer seasons for retail mortgages.

目前，房貸倉儲融資（Mortgage Warehouse）已完全取代壽險保費融資（Life Premium Finance），並在市場上獲得非常好的反響。本季期末未償餘額約為 4.6 億美元。而在本季接近 3 月底的幾天裡，未償餘額一度突破 5 億美元。這還是在任何再融資熱潮（refi boom）之前。這也還在零售房貸春夏旺季之前。

Importantly, warehouse is still producing impressive yields and margins, efficiency ratios in the 20s. The amount of scale and impact on our overall operating ratios in this business is not really something that's been fully baked or recognized in our current numbers, as really they've been just scaling the business so quickly over the past year. But as we -- I believe we could probably double this business in the next 12 to 18 months, and I believe the incremental impact from that second double is going to be very meaningful.

重要的是，倉儲業務仍在產生亮眼的收益率與利差，效率比率落在 20% 多的區間。這項業務的規模化程度及其對我們整體營運比率的影響，在目前的數字中尚未完全反映或被充分認知，因為過去一年我們確實是以非常快的速度在擴張。但隨著我們——我相信我們可能在未來 12 到 18 個月內把這項業務規模再翻倍，而我也相信第二次翻倍所帶來的增量影響將非常顯著。

Retail Mortgage had an absolute blowout quarter. They'll tell you that it was impacted by some Middle East activities and an impact on rates and fair value adjustments. And that's true. We might have reported $0.5 billion -- looking at Matt, $0.5 billion more at that. But regardless, pre-tax income in the Mortgage group grew to $2.1 million in the first quarter, compared to $766,000 same quarter a year ago.

零售房貸本季表現極為亮眼。他們會告訴你，這受到一些中東局勢活動的影響，進而影響利率與公允價值調整。這確實如此。我們可能還可以多報告 5 億美元——看著 Matt，還能再多 5 億美元。但無論如何，房貸事業群第一季稅前盈餘成長至 210 萬美元，相較一年前同季的 76.6 萬美元。

In the quarter, our earnings crept up to 57 basis points on closed volume compared to 46 in the same period a year ago. So on a profitability basis, we're up maybe 20% -- a little better than 20% on closed volume.

本季，我們在已結案量（closed volume）上的獲利率小幅上升至 57 個基點，而一年前同期間為 46 個基點。因此，就獲利能力而言，我們在已結案量上的表現提升了大約 20%——略高於 20%。

Our recruiting pipeline has never been this strong. And consistently, we double each month on apps, closed volume, new files. So we have real -- so we're very positive about what the second half of the year would look like. Right now, we believe Primis Mortgage is on track to be a top 50 mortgage company nationwide in 2026.

我們的人才招募管道從未如此強勁。而且我們在申請件數、結案量、新建檔案等方面，持續每月倍增。因此我們確實——所以我們對今年下半年會呈現的樣貌非常正向。目前，我們相信 Primis Mortgage 正朝著在 2026 年成為全美前 50 大房貸公司邁進。

And lastly, before I turn it over to Matt, I want to emphasize what's really present mind for us and our desire to build this into a top-performing bank. In our day-to-day here, we are laser-focused on growing checking accounts, like I mentioned earlier, to about 20% of total deposits. Secondly, we're determined to drive massive amounts of operating leverage from our consistent, reliable balance sheet growth using steady to decreasing OpEx. And I know I've been saying this for several quarters. And so as the quarter ended, I was pretty delighted to start playing with the numbers and see what I'm about to tell you here.

最後，在我把時間交給 Matt 之前，我想強調一件對我們而言真正縈繞心頭的事，以及我們希望把這裡打造為一家頂尖績效銀行的決心。在我們日常營運中，我們如我先前提到的，極度專注於成長支票存款帳戶，使其約占總存款的 20%。第二，我們決心在穩定至下降的營業費用（OpEx）下，透過持續、可靠的資產負債表成長，帶動大量的營運槓桿。我知道我已經連續好幾季都在講這件事。因此在本季結束時，我很高興開始把數字拿來推演，並看到我接下來要跟各位分享的內容。

If you look at the last year, first quarter of '25 to -- from first quarter of '25 all the way back to the first quarter of '24, we're reporting growth in core revenue of about 45 -- we're reporting core revenue of about $45.6 million, which is higher about 33.7%, call it 34%, over a year ago. Reported operating expenses straight off of Matt's income statement, no adjustments, came in at $33.8 million, which is only 4% higher than the same time a year ago. That's 34% growth in revenue, only a 4% growth in OpEx.

如果你看過去一年，從 25 年第一季——從 25 年第一季一路回溯到 24 年第一季，我們報告的核心營收約為 4,560 萬美元，較一年前高出約 33.7%，也就是約 34%。依 Matt 損益表直接呈現的已揭露營業費用，不做任何調整，為 3,380 萬美元，僅比一年前同期高出 4%。也就是營收成長 34%，OpEx 只成長 4%。

I had in my comments that I'd like to promise that we could do that for a couple more years, but I was afraid Matt would grimace, so I took that out. But this is an extraordinary level of operating leverage and really the driver of our results. Nobody at Primis thinks we're done in this area and that revenue may not be outpacing OpEx going forward.

我原本在講稿裡寫著想承諾我們還能再維持這樣做個兩年，但我擔心 Matt 會皺眉，所以我把那段刪掉了。但這是非常驚人的營運槓桿水準，也確實是我們成果的主要驅動因素。Primis 沒有人認為我們在這方面已經做完了，也不認為未來營收不會繼續跑贏 OpEx。

We have several strategies, of course, to continue getting this result, and one of those is AI. And I don't want to steal Matt's comments or his hard work on this. I know he's going to comment further on this, but AI for us is the same kind of opportunity and catalyst that you would expect me to report if we were doing an M&A transaction.

當然，我們有數項策略可以持續達成這樣的成果，其中之一就是 AI。我不想搶走 Matt 的內容或他在這方面的辛苦成果。我知道他會再進一步說明，但對我們而言，AI 是一種同等級的機會與催化劑，就像你會期待我在進行併購（M&A）交易時向各位報告的那種機會一樣。

We already have all the tools we need for this. We expect hardly no additional investment except the deep training that we're going to give our staff to be effective with this. And we believe that in a year, we are going to be the undisputed leader amongst banks under $10 billion, using AI to drive operating results, self-sufficiency, customer satisfaction and experience, and importantly, fraud prevention. When you combine that with our work towards converting our Core Bank to a fully digital core, we are on the edge of being a uniquely positioned bank with technology that has figured out how to keep our community bank feel.

我們其實已經具備推動這件事所需的所有工具。除了我們將對員工進行深入訓練、讓大家能有效運用之外，我們預期幾乎不需要額外投資。我們相信在一年內，我們將成為資產規模 100 億美元以下銀行中無可爭議的領導者，運用 AI 來推動營運成果、自給自足、客戶滿意度與體驗，以及更重要的——防詐。再結合我們將核心銀行系統（Core Bank）轉換為全數位核心的工作，我們正站在門檻邊緣，將成為一家定位獨特的銀行：以科技找到了保有社區銀行氛圍的方法。

With that, Matt, I will turn it over to you.

接下來，Matt，我把時間交給你。

Thank you, Dennis. As a reminder, a discussion of our financial results can be found in our press release and investor presentation located on our website and in our 8-K filed with the SEC.

謝謝你，Dennis。提醒各位，我們財務結果的討論可在我們網站上的新聞稿與投資人簡報中找到，也可在我們向 SEC 提交的 8-K 文件中查閱。

Beginning with the balance sheet, gross loans held for investment increased approximately 14% annualized from December 31 to March 31, led by growth in Panacea and Mortgage Warehouse. Average earning assets increased 6% annualized in the first quarter, with the slower growth rate versus period-end growth due to the ramp in Mortgage Warehouse later in the period. Average deposits were up 4% annualized in the quarter, while average non-interest rate deposits were up 7% from year-end.

先從資產負債表開始，用於投資的貸款總額在 12 月 31 日至 3 月 31 日期間，以年化計約成長 14%，主要由 Panacea 與 Mortgage Warehouse 的成長帶動。第一季平均生息資產以年化計成長 6%；相較期末成長較慢，原因是 Mortgage Warehouse 在期間後段才加速放量。本季平均存款以年化計成長 4%，而平均非付息存款較年末成長 7%。

Net interest income was approximately $32 million, a substantial improvement from $26 million a year ago. Our net interest margin in the first quarter was 3.43%, up from 3.28% last quarter and 3.15% in the year-ago period. And we have expectations for further market expansion as we progress through 2026.

淨利息收入約為 3,200 萬美元，較一年前的 2,600 萬美元大幅改善。第一季淨利差為 3.43%，高於上季的 3.28% 以及去年同期的 3.15%。隨著我們一路推進到 2026 年，我們也預期市場將進一步擴張。

We completed a redemption of $27 million of subordinated debt at the end of January, so that was only partially reflected in the quarter. We also have approximately $400 million of loans repricing in the second half of 2026 and early '27 with a weighted average yield of 4.81% that will add to loan yields.

我們在 1 月底完成了 2,700 萬美元的次順位債務贖回，因此本季僅部分反映其影響。此外，我們在 2026 年下半年與 2027 年初約有 4 億美元的貸款將重新定價，其加權平均殖利率為 4.81%，將有助於提升貸款收益率。

The Core Bank cost of deposits remains very attractive at 159 basis points for the quarter, flat from the fourth quarter. Cost of total deposits was 223 basis points in Q1, down 3 basis points linked quarter. Our focus on growing NIB deposits is a key part of our strategy to continue to drive funding costs lower.

本季核心銀行（Core Bank）的存款成本仍相當具吸引力，為 159 個基點，與第四季持平。第一季總存款成本為 223 個基點，較前一季下降 3 個基點。我們專注於成長 NIB 存款，是我們持續降低資金成本策略中的關鍵一環。

Our provision this quarter was $1.5 million, partially driven by growth in the loan portfolio described above. Approximately $0.7 million of the provision was due to specific reserving on impaired loans, while another $0.4 million was tied to activity in the consumer portfolio. Core net charge-offs remained low at 6 basis points in the first quarter of 2026.

本季提列備抵損失為 150 萬美元，部分是由上述貸款組合成長所帶動。其中約 70 萬美元來自對減損貸款的特定提存，另有 40 萬美元與消費金融組合的活動相關。2026 年第一季核心淨沖銷仍維持在低檔，為 6 個基點。

Non-interest income was $13.6 million in the quarter versus $12.8 million in the fourth quarter after adjusting for the sale leaseback gain, investment portfolio restructuring, and Panacea loan pool sale in the fourth quarter. Mortgage revenue was solid in Q1 at $10.8 million versus $10 million in the fourth quarter and would have been even better in the first quarter, if not for the impact of market volatility late in the quarter.

本季非利息收入為 1,360 萬美元；相較之下，第四季在調整售後回租（sale leaseback）利益、投資組合重整，以及第四季 Panacea 貸款池出售後為 1,280 萬美元。第一季房貸收入表現穩健，為 1,080 萬美元，高於第四季的 1,000 萬美元；若非本季末市場波動的影響，第一季表現本可更佳。

Year over year, Retail Mortgage production was 122% higher in the first quarter of '26 versus the first quarter of '25, showing strong momentum as we head into the busy home buying season. Also included in that production was $26 million of attractive construction and permanent loans in the first quarter, up from $4 million in the first quarter last year.

以年對年來看，2026 年第一季的零售房貸產量較 2025 年第一季高出 122%，顯示在進入購屋旺季之際，我們動能強勁。該產量中亦包含第一季 2,600 萬美元具吸引力的建築貸款與永久性貸款，較去年第一季的 400 萬美元大幅增加。

On the expense side, when you exclude Mortgage and Panacea division volatility and non-recurring items, our core expenses were $22 million in the first quarter versus $20.8 million a year ago. Absent the increased occupancy expense from our recent sale leaseback transaction, core expenses on this basis would have actually been down year over year. We've been focused on controlling expenses to maximize operating leverage and feel like we're in a good spot on that front so far in 2026.

在費用方面，若排除房貸與 Panacea 事業部的波動以及一次性項目，我們第一季核心費用為 2,200 萬美元，去年同期為 2,080 萬美元。若不計入近期售後回租交易所帶來的較高場地占用費用，以此口徑計算的核心費用其實會呈現年對年下降。我們一直專注於控制費用以最大化營運槓桿，並且就 2026 年迄今而言，我們認為在這方面進展良好。

I would also like to take a moment to briefly touch on how we are thinking about AI. As mentioned in the earnings release, we have canvassed the bank looking for opportunities to deploy AI tools to reduce repetitive and time-consuming tasks and generate efficiencies.

我也想花點時間簡要談談我們如何看待 AI。如同在財報新聞稿中提到的，我們已在全行盤點可部署 AI 工具的機會，以降低重複且耗時的工作並創造效率。

Our first pass has identified hundreds of hours of opportunity, and there is almost certainly more that will be found as we start tackling these projects. We view this as a key part of our strategy to keep expense growth to a minimum while maximizing operating leverage. Equally as exciting from where I sit, our in-house talent in this area, combined with the robust tools built into our existing products, such as Microsoft Copilot, should allow us to get the vast majority of these efficiencies without expensive consultants.

我們第一輪盤點已辨識出數百小時的機會；而當我們開始著手推進這些專案時，幾乎可以確定還會找到更多。我們將此視為策略中的關鍵一環：在將費用成長壓到最低的同時，最大化營運槓桿。同樣令我感到振奮的是，我們在此領域的內部人才，加上既有產品內建的強大工具（例如 Microsoft Copilot），應能讓我們在不依賴昂貴顧問的情況下，取得其中絕大多數的效率提升。

In summary, we are excited to report a solid first quarter in line with our expectations and believe we are still on track to hit our profitability goal in '26.

總結來說，我們很高興回報第一季表現穩健、符合我們的預期，並且相信我們仍按計畫在 '26 年達成獲利目標。

With that, operator, we can now open the line for Q&A.

那麼，接線員，我們現在可以開放電話線進行問答。

(Operator Instructions) Woody Lay, KBW.

(接線員指示) Woody Lay，KBW。

Hey. Good morning, guys. I wanted to start on Mortgage. And as you mentioned, it was a blowout quarter in what's typically a seasonally weaker quarter. We're now entering the stronger quarters ahead. What are your expectations for production in the near term? And then also in the Mortgage expenses, was there additional hiring that was done in 1Q '26 or elevated legal expenses, anything that sort of propped that up?

嗨。各位早安。我想先從房貸業務談起。如你們提到的，在通常季節性較弱的一季，這次卻是爆發性的一季。我們現在正要進入接下來較強的季度。你們對近期的承作量（production）有何預期？另外在房貸費用方面，'26 年第一季是否有額外增聘人員或法律費用偏高等情況，導致費用被墊高？

Nothing unusual on the expense side.

費用端沒有任何不尋常的地方。

I think what -- I think we probably -- I think maybe we came into the year thinking we might have -- we closed $1.2 billion last year, but had a lot of momentum in the fourth quarter, thought we probably had like a $1.6 billion, $1.7 billion mortgage company. And then through the first quarter, felt like it was a little higher, maybe $1.8 billion, maybe even $2 billion.

我想——我想我們可能——我想也許我們年初進來時認為，我們去年結案了 12 億美元，但第四季動能很強，覺得我們大概是一家 16 億到 17 億美元規模的房貸公司。然後到了第一季，感覺又更高一些，可能 18 億美元，甚至可能到 20 億美元。

But I feel like we're probably still maybe around 100. I mean, we're going to be -- April is very strong for reflecting what we thought. I think for the -- I'd say we're probably still somewhere in the $1.8 billion range on closed volume.

但我覺得我們可能仍大概在 100 左右。我的意思是——我們會——4 月非常強，反映了我們原先的想法。我想就——我會說我們結案量大概仍落在 18 億美元左右。

And I think, Woody, what's important is, as we've been growing, what's important is we were at 46 basis points a year ago. We're at 57 basis points now on closed volume. What's impacting that is obviously a lot more scale on the fixed expenses as we get closer to $2 billion.

而且我認為，Woody，重要的是，隨著我們成長，關鍵在於：一年前我們是 46 個基點。現在在結案量上是 57 個基點。影響因素顯然是，當我們接近 20 億美元時，固定費用因規模擴大而被攤薄得更多。

A lot more focus on -- Matt mentioned construction perm. We have a big construction perm focus here that's honestly very centered on government for getting higher yields there. And really, we've been building that for the last year. These are probably six- to nine-month bills, so that's starting to flow.

另外也更聚焦在——Matt 提到的建築轉永久（construction perm）。我們這裡對建築轉永久有很大的聚焦，老實說非常以政府相關業務為核心，以取得更高的收益率。而且其實我們過去一年一直在建置這塊。這些大概是 6 到 9 個月的票據，所以現在開始逐步反映出來。

So what's important, I think, is that we think we're going to do $1.8 billion or so this year as things look right now and maybe trend somewhere closer to probably a touch over 60 basis points. The Middle East event probably hit us for a few basis points, 5 or 6 basis points on profitability. So we might have been over 60 had we not had the fair value adjustment.

所以我認為重要的是，依目前情況來看，我們認為今年大概會做到 18 億美元左右，並且可能趨勢上接近略高於 60 個基點。中東事件大概讓我們的獲利能力少了幾個基點，約 5 或 6 個基點。所以如果沒有公允價值調整，我們可能會超過 60 個基點。

That's going to happen in Mortgage. I've seen you can't really exclude it.

這在房貸業務裡就是會發生。我看過，你其實不能真的把它排除掉。

Yeah, that's helpful color. And then maybe shifting over to the net interest margin outlook, Matt, you noted some of the loan repricing tailwinds through the remainder of the year. Growth is expected to remain strong. You're going to have to fund that growth. So do you think you can continue to post strong growth and see margin expansion? Or will it be -- are we looking more at a flat margin with incremental growth?

好的，這些補充很有幫助。接著可能轉到淨利差（NIM）展望，Matt，你提到今年剩餘期間有一些貸款重訂價帶來的順風。成長預期仍會維持強勁。你們必須為這些成長提供資金。所以你認為你們能否在持續強勁成長的同時看到利差擴張？還是——我們更應該預期利差持平、搭配增量成長？

I think we'll see a little bit more margin expansion because of the debt payoff I mentioned. And we also had a little bit of a drag in the margin in the quarter from moving those loans to held for sale. We reversed some deferred costs that ran through the margin. It was only like 1 basis point.

我認為利差會再多一些擴張，因為我提到的債務償還。而且本季利差也受到一點拖累，原因是我們把那些貸款移到待售（held for sale）。我們回轉了一些遞延成本，這些是透過利差反映的。其實只有大概 1 個基點。

So we'll see some margin expansion next quarter and a little -- and then probably inch up from there. I mean, I would not expect margin to hit 3.6%, but would we hit high 3.4s to 3.5 as we go through the year? Most likely.

所以下一季我們會看到一些利差擴張，然後——之後可能再慢慢往上。我的意思是，我不會預期利差到 3.6%，但今年走下來會到 3.4% 高段到 3.5% 嗎？很可能。

Got it. And then maybe just last for me on the credit. I appreciate the comments on the paydowns of those 90-day past due loans subsequent to quarter-end. But just on some of those larger relationships that are still on NPA, any update on those and when we could see possible resolutions?

了解。最後一題關於信用。我很感謝你們提到季後那些逾期 90 天貸款的償還（paydowns）。但就一些仍列在不良資產（NPA）中的較大型往來關係而言，有沒有最新進展？以及我們何時可能看到解決方案？

Matt -- it's funny you asked that. Matt looks straight at me like you answer that one. I mean, there's two real estate, commercial real estate deals, office, and we've had -- both had pretty good quarters on new leases. So I mean, I think it's trending positive there.

Matt——你問得真有趣。Matt 直直看著我，好像要你來回答這題。我的意思是，有兩筆不動產、商用不動產案子，辦公室類型，而且我們——兩個案子在新租約方面這一季表現都相當不錯。所以我認為那邊的趨勢是正向的。

I think two things are trending positive. One, there's more leasing activity. Sales cycle on new leases in an office park like this is longer than we want it to be, but still the fact that they're talking to a lot of folks and that there's a pathway is positive.

我認為有兩件事在往好的方向走。第一，租賃活動變多了。像這種辦公園區的新租約銷售週期比我們希望的更長，但他們確實在跟很多人談，而且有一條可行的路徑，這是正面的。

The second is cap rates are improving. They're not falling like we'd like them to, but they are improving. And so I think every day that goes by, we're a little safer on the value. They're current, so they're not -- these are not -- I mean, it could change any time. But right now, they're -- things are trending more positive there.

第二，資本化率（cap rates）正在改善。它們沒有像我們希望的那樣下降，但確實在改善。因此我認為每過一天，我們在估值上就更安全一些。它們目前是正常繳款的，所以不是——這些不是——我的意思是，任何時候都可能改變。但就目前而言，那邊的趨勢更偏正向。

Does that answer your question?

這樣有回答到你的問題嗎？

Yeah. No, that's perfect. I appreciate you taking my questions. Congrats on the good quarter.

有。不，這樣很完美。謝謝你回答我的問題。恭喜這一季表現不錯。

Thank you, Woody.

謝謝你，Woody。

Russell Gunther, Stephens Inc.

Russell Gunther，Stephens Inc.。

Hey. Good morning, guys. I wanted to start -- morning, Dennis. Morning, Matt. Maybe just a quick follow-up on the margin commentary. I appreciate the directional guide, but maybe some of the underpinning assumptions. It would be helpful to get a sense for kind of where new commercial loan origination yields are today.

嗨。各位早安。我想先——早安，Dennis。早安，Matt。可能就利差的評論做個快速追問。我很感謝你們提供方向性的指引，但也想了解一些支撐這些看法的假設。如果能讓我們知道目前新承作的商業貸款起始收益率大概在哪個水準，會很有幫助。

And then, Matt, within the guide, how are you thinking about deposit costs for years? Is there room to move those lower? Or is there kind of a flat to upward bias within your margin expectations?

另外，Matt，在指引中，你對未來幾年的存款成本是怎麼思考的？是否還有下調空間？或者在你們的利差預期中，存款成本是偏持平到上行？

I'll start with the last piece. I think on the deposit side, it's probably flat, up or down a couple of basis points, but not -- I don't expect any substantial moves in the cost of deposits in the near term. On the production side, we're, in the Core Bank, probably mid-6s.

我先回答最後那一段。我認為在存款端大概是持平，上下可能差個幾個基點，但——我不預期短期內存款成本會有任何顯著變動。在承作端，我們在核心銀行（Core Bank）大概是 6% 中段。

Yeah. We're probably randomly five years. I mean, we're still probably -- all in, we're probably close to five-year 2.75%.

對。我們大概是隨機五年期。我的意思是，我們整體來看，大概接近五年期 2.75%。

Warehouse is probably better than that.

倉儲融資可能比那個更好。

Mortgage Warehouse is probably, with fees, one-month SOFR plus 3.15%, 3.20%. Panacea is outstanding. I mean, they are -- I mean, they really -- I mean, the niche that they've established for themselves, their marketing, their profile, the opportunity to do business with them is reflected in the rates. And I think the rates they're getting on their production is exceptional, too. They're probably five-year treasury plus 2.50%, 2.60% on that kind of credit.

房貸倉儲融資大概是（含費用）一個月期 SOFR 加 3.15%、3.20%。Panacea 表現非常出色。我的意思是，他們——我的意思是，他們真的——我的意思是，他們為自己建立的利基市場、他們的行銷、他們的形象，以及與他們做生意的機會，都反映在利率上。而且我認為他們在其承作量上拿到的利率也非常優異。在那種信用條件下，他們大概是五年期美國公債殖利率加 2.50%、2.60%。

On funding, and Matt and I regularly debate this, I mean, we could -- I mean, across the bank right now, I feel like we could probably take digital down 25 or 30 basis points, probably not lose that much. We could probably take the Core Bank down 5 or 10. It's already very low, but there's some savings that we could get on the deposit side. The problem is it puts us in a place where we're not very strong on the growth side. And again, we're not leaning into rate on digital or anything else, but we also don't want to not be competitive.

在資金端，Matt 和我經常就這點辯論；我的意思是，我們可以——我的意思是，就目前全行而言，我覺得我們大概可以把數位存款利率下調 25 或 30 個基點，可能不會流失太多。我們大概也可以把核心銀行（Core Bank）下調 5 或 10 個基點。它已經非常低了，但在存款端我們仍能省下一些成本。問題是，這會讓我們在成長面變得不那麼強。再說一次，我們並不是在數位或其他方面一味追逐利率，但我們也不想失去競爭力。

And right now, when we're looking at Panacea, Panacea can do $200 million for us this year. Warehouse can grow $300 million, $400 million. The Core Bank is the best it's ever been, that could be a couple of hundred million. We just don't want to get in a position -- I mean, we don't want to go harvest 30 basis points of deposit costs and then just rely on home loan bank advances. We don't want to be that bank.

而且現在，當我們看 Panacea 時，Panacea 今年可以為我們帶來 2 億美元。倉儲融資可以成長 3 億、4 億美元。核心銀行目前是史上最佳狀態，這也可能有幾億美元。我們只是不想陷入一種狀況——我的意思是，我們不想為了收割 30 個基點的存款成本，然後就只能依賴房貸銀行（FHLB）的借款。我們不想成為那樣的銀行。

All right. Thank you, guys. I appreciate the color there. And Dennis, you kind of took my next question in terms of how that loan growth might shake out from a vertical perspective, so I appreciate that. Maybe I would then switch gears to the expense front. How are you guys thinking about directionally the overall expense base, inclusive, if we could, of the kind of mortgage banking vertical as well?

好。謝謝各位。我很感謝你們提供的補充說明。Dennis，你其實已經回答了我下一個問題，也就是從垂直領域角度來看放款成長可能會如何分布，所以我很感謝。那我可能就轉到費用面。你們對整體費用基礎的方向性看法是什麼？如果可以的話，也請把房貸銀行這條垂直業務一併納入。

Inclusive of Mortgage -- that was kind of hard to spit out, unfortunately, because it's so tied to volume. I mean, if you know it's going to be almost direct percentage of whatever their buying is going to be in the next quarter. I mean, I like to think of mortgages as kind of net non-interest income and non-interest expense for the year.

包含房貸——很遺憾這點有點難講清楚，因為它跟量高度綁定。我的意思是，如果你知道他們下一季要買多少，那幾乎就是那個金額的直接百分比。我的意思是，我比較喜歡把房貸視為年度的淨非利息收入與非利息費用。

Now, that doesn't include spread income, which we also include in our profitability. I mean, it's probably going to net us $5 million or $6 million for the year. So you can kind of back into -- take your -- whatever your revenue assumption is and non-interest income for Mortgage and kind of back it to expense from there.

當然，這不包含利差收入，而我們也會把利差收入納入獲利衡量。我的意思是，全年大概會為我們淨貢獻 500 萬到 600 萬美元。所以你可以倒推——用你的營收假設與房貸的非利息收入，然後從那裡倒推出費用。

Otherwise, when we get a -- and then Panacea has some volatility to it as well. So we really focus on that core expense number, which is around $22 million, I think. I think we'll stay in that kind of $22 million to $23 million range for the year.

除此之外，Panacea 也有一些波動性。所以我們真的會聚焦在核心費用數字，大概是 2,200 萬美元左右，我想。我認為今年我們會維持在 2,200 萬到 2,300 萬美元這個區間。

Okay. No, understood. I appreciate it, Matt. Thank you. And then just last one for me guys would be an update on your kind of ROA glide path. You mentioned in your remarks, would expect to hit your targets, which I think are 1% ROA by the end of the year. What aspirations do you guys have from there and sort of a timeline to achieve?

好的。不，了解。謝謝你，Matt。謝謝。那最後一個問題，是想請你們更新一下 ROA 的達成路徑。你們在發言中提到，預期年底能達到目標，我想是年底 ROA 1%。之後你們有什麼更高的目標，以及大概的達成時間表？

You want to answer that before I box you into doing something?

你要先回答嗎？不然我就把你框進某個承諾裡了。

No, please move the goal up again. Matt sometimes doesn't like how aspirational I am, Russell.

不，你請再把目標往上調一次吧。Russell，Matt 有時候不太喜歡我這麼有企圖心。

Oh, I understand. Yeah, I get that.

喔，我懂。是的，我理解。

Yeah. I mean, 1% is a good line for us because we've not consistently been there, but 1% is not going to -- I mean, given our growth rate, that problem, our growth rates and our dividends, that will probably keep the bank capital levels flat. But I mean, we want to build book, we want to build capital ratios, we want to position ourselves to be strategic, and so we've got to be higher than that.

對。我的意思是，1% 對我們來說是一條不錯的線，因為我們過去並沒有持續穩定地達到；但 1% 並不會——我的意思是，考量我們的成長率、以及我們的股利，這大概只會讓銀行的資本水準維持持平。但我的意思是，我們想擴大帳面（book）、想提升資本比率、想讓自己具備策略彈性，所以我們必須高於那個水準。

I think Mortgage at scale, I said it's 57 basis points. Mortgage at scale probably is another 20% higher than that. That's going to be a big deal in the ROA. That's probably another 10 basis points for the ROA. Warehouse is probably going to add another 10 basis points once it gets to scale.

我認為房貸業務在規模化時——我說過是 57 個基點。房貸在規模化後大概會比那個再高 20%。這對 ROA 會是很大的影響。那大概會讓 ROA 再增加約 10 個基點。倉儲融資一旦達到規模，可能也會再貢獻約 10 個基點。

The AI thing that Matt's working on and the rest of our bank, I mean, over time, and we're not looking at that, Russell, as something that's going to reduce headcount. What it's going to do is take the experts we have and just make them be able to manage twice as much. And we can manage like that when we have growth rates like we have. I know I'm going to need these staff over time.

Matt 正在做的 AI 相關工作，以及我們銀行其他部分，我的意思是，隨著時間推進——而且 Russell，我們並不把它視為用來減少人力編制的東西。它要做的是讓我們現有的專家能夠管理兩倍的量。而在我們這樣的成長率下，我們可以用這種方式來管理。我知道隨著時間推進，我還是需要這些員工。

I mean, aspirationally, we ought to be -- given these lines of business on top of our Core Bank, we ought to be 1.25% or better and probably are looking more ROTCE to be something that would get near 15%. I think if 15% ROTCE kind of can control your future. If people don't like your stock, you can just buy it back. If they do like your stock, then you can do other strategic things. But really, until you get to that point, you're -- all you're doing is working to get to that point.

我的意思是，就目標而言，考量這些業務線再加上我們的核心銀行，我們的 ROA 應該要到 1.25% 或更高；而且我們可能更看重 ROTCE，希望能接近 15%。我認為如果 ROTCE 能到 15%，基本上就能掌控自己的未來。如果市場不喜歡你的股票，你就可以把它買回來。如果市場喜歡你的股票，那你就可以做其他策略性的事情。但說到底，在你達到那個點之前，你——你所做的一切都只是為了走到那個點。

In a box, you mean?

你是說被框住嗎？

That's good. I appreciate it, guys. I appreciate your thoughts and for taking all my questions. Thank you very much.

很好。謝謝各位。感謝你們的想法，也謝謝你們回答我所有問題。非常感謝。

Thanks, Russell.

謝謝你，Russell。

(Operator Instructions) Christopher Marinac, Brean Capital Research.

（接線員指示）Christopher Marinac，Brean Capital Research。

Hey. Good morning. Dennis, the last couple of days, banks have talked about the competitiveness of digital deposits being more expensive than brokered funds. And I'm curious what you think about that. It seems that you're in a much better place. You've been doing the digital banking much longer. And I'm just curious kind of how you look at that, and is that digital area going to grow less as a result of the rate environment?

嗨。早安。Dennis，過去幾天，銀行業一直在談數位存款的競爭性，說它比經紀資金（brokered funds）更昂貴。我很好奇你怎麼看這件事。看起來你們的狀況好很多。你們做數位銀行的時間也長得多。我只是想了解你們怎麼看待這點；以及在目前的利率環境下，數位這一塊是否會因此成長變慢？

I'm so glad you asked that question. I remember speaking on a panel somewhere and I was talking about how we had these 25,000 or 30,000 digital customers all across the country that have never been in the branch, probably never seen one of our bankers. And I was talking about how that we sometimes peruse their social media or we, in communications with them, find out that they have a dog, a Cavapoo.

我很高興你問了這個問題。我記得我曾在某個地方的座談會上發言，當時我提到我們在全國各地有 25,000 或 30,000 位數位客戶，他們從未到過分行，可能也從未見過我們的任何一位銀行家。我也提到，我們有時會瀏覽他們的社群媒體，或在與他們的溝通中得知他們養了一隻狗，一隻 Cavapoo。

And we will do things that are very community banker-ish. We will send them some swag, a dog collar band, or we'll reach out to them when we're in -- I've gone to see customers when I'm in Telluride. I found additional customers that was out there and went and had breakfast with them.

然後我們會做一些很「社區銀行家」風格的事情。我們會寄一些小禮物給他們，像是周邊、狗項圈飾帶；或者當我們人在——我去特柳賴德（Telluride）時，也會主動聯繫客戶。我還在那裡找到其他客戶，並和他們一起吃早餐。

The reason that -- I'm not going to sit here and say that these deposits aren't more expensive. Honestly, they should be. Say, we have 25,000 or more digital customers that were banking with six people. So they should be more comfortable, I mean, more expensive. There's very little cost associated with it. But we have separated them from being just straight rate-driven by being community bankers. The same thing that we do in the bank to make our customers not be solely rate-focused, we're doing that on the digital platform.

原因是——我不會坐在這裡說這些存款不比較貴。老實說，它們本來就應該比較貴。比方說，我們有 25,000 名以上的數位客戶，卻只用六個人來服務。所以他們應該更舒服——我是說，成本應該更高。因為相關成本非常低。但我們透過成為社區銀行家，把他們從「純粹利率驅動」中區隔出來。我們在實體銀行裡做的那些事，讓客戶不只看利率；我們也把同樣的做法搬到數位平台上。

I'm not going to sit here and say that we're the only people that are doing that, but I will tell you that we're probably more effective at that than our competition. And we've been doing that for now for three years since we've got the real big slug of deposits in here. Our average digital customer has -- average digital customer is probably down 150 basis points from where their peak was.

我不會坐在這裡說只有我們在做這件事，但我可以告訴你，我們可能比競爭對手更有效。自從我們把那一大筆存款真正導入之後，這件事我們已經做了三年。我們的平均數位客戶——平均數位客戶的利率大概比高峰時下降了 150 個基點。

The average digital customer has been here probably more than 30 months, closer to 36. The average age is over 50. Average deposit is probably approaching $30,000 or $40,000. They have the cell phone numbers of the bankers that work them. Everybody has talked to a banker. I mean, it's just things like that that have separated these customers from being solely rate-focused.

平均數位客戶在我們這裡的時間大概超過 30 個月，更接近 36 個月。平均年齡超過 50 歲。平均存款金額大概接近 30,000 或 40,000 美元。他們都有負責他們的銀行家的手機號碼。每個人都跟銀行家談過。我的意思是，像這些小細節，就讓這些客戶不再只是單純以利率為導向。

Now I would tell you in the Core Bank, the Core Bank's cost of deposits is probably 1.80%, 1.75% --

現在我會告訴你，在核心銀行（Core Bank）這邊，核心銀行的存款成本大概是 1.80%、1.75%——

1.59%.

1.59%。

I mean, the digital is sitting there at like 3.75% or so. Like I said, we could probably push that down 25 or 30. So let's just say we could get them to 3.5%, so yes, obviously more expensive, but it's growing at that level. And yeah, I don't know -- I don't want to ramble about it, but I'm very proud. I'm very proud of how our bankers pushed a community bank attitude and approach onto these 25,000 customers, and that's paid off.

我的意思是，數位端大概在 3.75% 左右。如我所說，我們可能可以把它再壓低 25 或 30 個基點。所以就假設我們能把它降到 3.5%，那是的，顯然比較貴，但它是在那個水準上成長。而且，是的，我不知道——我不想講太多，但我非常自豪。我非常自豪我們的銀行家把社區銀行的態度與做法帶到這 25,000 位客戶身上，而這也帶來了成果。

Chris, that was a very long and rambling answer to your question.

Chris，這對你的問題來說是一個很長、而且有點離題的回答。

That is A-okay. Thanks for sharing all that. My other question just goes back to the Mortgage business. As you continue to thrive in Mortgage, both in terms of production and gains, plus the Mortgage Warehouse, is there a natural cap that will happen to how much of that business you want for the whole company? Will the bank just go around it and kind of naturally cap how much Mortgage will be down the road?

完全沒問題。謝謝你分享這些。我另一個問題想回到房貸業務。隨著你們在房貸方面持續成長——不論是產量與獲利（gains），再加上房貸倉儲（Mortgage Warehouse）——對於整個公司而言，你們希望這塊業務占比是否會自然出現一個上限？銀行是否會在未來某個時點，讓房貸業務的占比自然地被限制在某個程度？

That's the kind of thing you don't worry about when you're starting up. Matt and I joke all the time that our claim to fame is that we find problems and we fix them so well that they create new problems.

這種事情在你剛起步時不會去擔心。Matt 和我常開玩笑說，我們的成名之處在於：我們找到問題並把它修得太好，以至於會產生新的問題。

I mean, Mortgage really should not be. We don't want to be a mortgage company here. We want to run an amazing mortgage company, but we don't want to be just a mortgage company. It really probably shouldn't be any more than 20% of our bottom line.

我的意思是，房貸真的不應該——我們不想在這裡變成一家房貸公司。我們想經營一家很棒的房貸公司，但我們不想只是一家房貸公司。它在我們的獲利（bottom line）中，占比大概不應該超過 20%。

No question about -- I mean, and some of it is -- we have a dynamite team in Mortgage and a dynamite leader, and we have that for the Core Bank as well too in Rick. But I mean, the Core Bank, we're a little -- we don't -- we're still not fascinated with CRE. We're doing it, but that's not our hallmark. We're in some non-growth, not really fast growth areas in the Core Bank.

毫無疑問——我的意思是，其中一部分原因是——我們在房貸部門有一支非常強的團隊和一位非常強的領導者；核心銀行這邊也是，在 Rick 的帶領下同樣如此。但我的意思是，核心銀行方面，我們有點——我們仍然對商用不動產（CRE）沒有那麼著迷。我們有在做，但那不是我們的招牌。核心銀行這邊，我們所在的一些區域屬於非成長、或不是那種非常快速成長的市場。

So over time, we've got to find a way probably to grow the Core Bank faster so that Mortgage Warehouse, Panacea, all of those stay as compliments to the bank and not the whole story. I mean, we're not -- we don't want to change the growth profiles or the growth dynamics. I mean, our Core Bank is -- what our Core Bank right now is doing is amazing. And I don't want to step on the gas any harder and get a different kind of business.

所以隨著時間推進，我們大概得找到方法讓核心銀行成長得更快，這樣房貸倉儲、Panacea 以及我們做的所有這些業務，才能作為銀行的補充，而不是成為全部的故事。我的意思是，我們不——我們不想改變成長輪廓或成長動能。我的意思是，我們核心銀行目前的表現非常出色。而我不想再更用力踩油門，結果引來不同類型的業務。

Some strategy will open up to it. We've not been in an M&A strategy or a position to do that. Maybe that'll open up one day. And that's probably the catalyst we need to build on the Core Bank and let these other items that we do that are so good and just run so well be a compliment to that.

某些策略可能會因此開啟。我們過去並沒有採取併購（M&A）策略，或處於能做這件事的位置。也許有一天會開啟。而那可能就是我們需要的催化劑，用來壯大核心銀行，並讓我們其他做得很棒、運作得很順的項目，成為對核心銀行的補充。

Great. That's very helpful. Thanks for that. I appreciate all the information today.

很好。這非常有幫助。謝謝你。我很感謝今天提供的所有資訊。

Thanks, Chris.

謝謝你，Chris。

Thank you. There are no further questions at this time. I'd like to turn the conference back over to Dennis Zember for any closing remarks.

謝謝。目前沒有其他問題。我想把會議交回給 Dennis Zember，請他做結語。

Thank you all for joining our first-quarter conference call. If you have any questions, Matt and I are around happy to get on the phone with you. Otherwise, have a good weekend. We'll talk to you soon.

感謝各位參加我們第一季的電話會議。如果你有任何問題，Matt 和我都在，樂意與你通話。不然的話，祝各位週末愉快。我們很快再聊。

This concludes today's conference call. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。您現在可以掛線。