Forge Global Holdings Inc (FRGE) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good morning. My name is Carly, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the Forge first-quarter fiscal 2025 financial results conference call.

早安.我叫卡莉，今天我將擔任您的會議主持人。現在，我歡迎大家參加 Forge 2025 財年第一季財務業績電話會議。

On today's Forge Global call will be Kelly Rodriques, CEO; James Nevin, CFO, Lindsey Riddell, Executive Vice President of Corporate Marketing and Communications; and Dominique Paschel, SVP of Finance and Investor Relations. (Operator Instructions)

參加今天的 Forge Global 電話會議的將是執行長 Kelly Rodriques；財務長 James Nevin、企業行銷和傳播執行副總裁 Lindsey Riddell；以及財務和投資者關係高級副總裁 Dominique Paschel。（操作員指示）

And now I would like to turn the call over to Lindsay Riddell. Ms. Riddle, you may begin.

現在我想把電話轉給 Lindsay Riddell。里德爾女士，你可以開始了。

Thank you, Carly, and thank you all for joining us today for Forge's first-quarter 2025 earnings call. Earlier this morning, we issued a press release announcing Forge's first-quarter 2025 financial results. A discussion of our results today complements the press release, which is available on our Investor Relations page. This conference call is being webcast, and we'll show slides during this presentation.

謝謝你，卡莉，也謝謝大家今天參加 Forge 2025 年第一季財報電話會議。今天早些時候，我們發布了一份新聞稿，宣布了 Forge 2025 年第一季的財務表現。今天對我們業績的討論是新聞稿的補充，新聞稿可在我們的投資者關係頁面上查閱。本次電話會議正在進行網路直播，我們將在簡報過程中播放投影片。

The replay of the webcast as well as the slides will be available via the IR page of our website shortly after the conclusion of this call. We will also post to that page our prepared remarks and investor supplemental document which consolidates some relevant metrics.

本次電話會議結束後不久，網路直播的重播以及投影片將透過我們網站的 IR 頁面提供。我們還將在該頁面上發布我們準備好的評論和投資者補充文件，其中整合了一些相關指標。

During this conference call, we may make forward-looking statements based on current expectations, forecasts, and projections as of today's date. Any forward-looking statements that we make are subject to various risks and uncertainties, and they are important factors that could cause these actual outcomes to materially differ from those included in these statements.

在本次電話會議中，我們可能會根據截至今天的當前預期、預測和預期做出前瞻性陳述。我們所做的任何前瞻性陳述都受各種風險和不確定性的影響，這些風險和不確定性是可能導致實際結果與這些陳述中的結果有重大差異的重要因素。

We discussed these factors in our SEC filings, including our quarterly report on Form 10-Q, which will be found on the IR page of our website after it's filed. As a reminder, we are not required to update our forward-looking statements.

我們在提交給美國證券交易委員會的文件中討論了這些因素，包括 10-Q 表季度報告，提交後可在我們網站的 IR 頁面上找到。提醒一下，我們不需要更新我們的前瞻性陳述。

In our presentation today, unless otherwise noted, we will be discussing adjusted financial measures which are non-GAAP measures that we believe are meaningful when evaluating the company's performance. For detailed disclosures on these measures and the GAAP reconciliations, you should refer to the financial data contained within our press release, which is also posted to the IR page.

在我們今天的演示中，除非另有說明，我們將討論調整後的財務指標，這些指標是非 GAAP 指標，我們認為這些指標在評估公司業績時很有意義。有關這些指標和 GAAP 對帳的詳細揭露，請參閱我們新聞稿中包含的財務數據，該新聞稿也發佈在 IR 頁面上。

Today's discussion will focus on the first-quarter 2025 results. As always, we encourage you to evaluate both annual and quarterly results for a full picture of Forge's performance, which can be affected by unexpected events that are outside of our control.

今天的討論將集中在2025年第一季的業績。像往常一樣，我們鼓勵您評估年度和季度業績，以全面了解 Forge 的業績，因為其業績可能會受到我們無法控制的意外事件的影響。

With that, I'll turn it over to Kelly, our CEO.

說完這些，我將把麥克風交給我們的執行長凱利 (Kelly)。

Thank you, Lindsay, and Dom and thank you for joining us today. We're pleased to report our full Q1 financial results following a preliminary release of earnings on April 10. Forge has been building momentum. Long term strategic investments we've made in our technology, in the breadth of clients we serve, and in the diversity of investment opportunities we offer are gaining traction.

謝謝 Lindsay 和 Dom，謝謝你們今天加入我們。繼 4 月 10 日發布初步收益報告後，我們很高興地報告第一季的完整財務表現。Forge 的發展勢頭強勁。我們對技術、服務客戶範圍以及提供的多樣化投資機會所做的長期策略投資正在獲得越來越大的關注。

We'll review some of the announcements we've made over the last month shortly. First, so as not to bury the lead, financial highlights for Q1 included achieving our best revenue quarter as a public company driven largely by an improvement in our marketplace revenue.

我們很快就會回顧一下上個月發布的一些公告。首先，為了不掩蓋領先優勢，第一季的財務亮點包括實現了我們作為上市公司最好的收入季度，這主要得益於我們市場收入的提高。

Revenue for the quarter totaled $25.1 million. While marketplace revenue contributed $15.8 million on trading volume of nearly $700 million. The increase in revenue and volume was fueled by improved post-election market dynamics that drove a diversity of new and re-engaged interest in our platform, as well as several large institutional block trades that closed in the quarter.

本季總收入為 2510 萬美元。而市場收入則貢獻了 1,580 萬美元，交易量接近 7 億美元。收入和交易量的增長得益於選舉後市場動態的改善，這引發了對我們平台的各種新興趣和重新關注的興趣，以及本季度完成的幾筆大型機構大宗交易。

We're encouraged by the continued momentum of the private market even amid macroeconomic volatility affecting the public market and exit environment. With the volatility and an unclear IPO outlook, the importance of the private market in providing liquidity for the expanding pool of longtime private companies and in providing access to a broad set of investors is only growing.

即使在宏觀經濟波動影響公開市場和退出環境的情況下，私人市場的持續發展動能也令我們感到鼓舞。由於市場波動性和 IPO 前景不明朗，私募市場在為不斷擴大的長期私營公司群體提供流動性以及為廣大投資者提供投資管道方面的重要性日益凸顯。

In his annual letter to shareholders, BlackRock CEO, Larry Fink said, more Americans need access to private assets, and that he envisions a future where private assets, including shares of private companies, make up 20% of every portfolio.

貝萊德執行長拉里芬克在致股東的年度信中表示，更多的美國人需要獲得私人資產，他預計未來私人資產（包括私人公司的股票）將佔每個投資組合的 20%。

We're building the ecosystem that enables that future. And we've announced several new initiatives in the last few weeks that we believe reinforce our leadership position in that future. In the last month, we launched a long in the works Yahoo Finance partnership to deliver private market pricing information to tens of millions of monthly Yahoo visitors.

我們正在建立實現這一未來的生態系統。過去幾週，我們宣布了幾項新舉措，我們相信這些舉措將鞏固我們未來的領導地位。上個月，我們啟動了一項籌備已久的與雅虎財經的合作，向每月數千萬雅虎訪客提供私人市場定價資訊。

Yahoo Finance now displays Forge price performance charts on more than 100 companies and features the Forge Private Market index as the benchmark for private market performance. We additionally announced an agreement with Intercontinental exchange, or ICE through which Ford's price, our novel proprietary pricing data set for private companies will be distributed with ICE's suite of data offerings to its institutional client base.

雅虎財經現在展示了 100 多家公司的 Forge 價格表現圖表，並以 Forge 私人市場指數作為私人市場表現的基準。我們也宣布與洲際交易所 (ICE) 達成協議，透過該協議，福特的價格（我們為私人公司提供的新穎專有定價數據集）將與 ICE 的數據產品套件一起分發給其機構客戶群。

Both the ICE agreement and the Yahoo Finance partnership are validation of the integrity of our data and its relevancy to opening access to the full spectrum of participants in this market from retail investors to large complex institutions, and we expect both to deliver more clients into the platform, whether as purchases of our data or as participants in private market transactions, large and small.

ICE 協議和雅虎財經合作夥伴關係都驗證了我們資料的完整性及其對開放該市場所有參與者（從散戶投資者到大型複雜機構）的相關性，我們預計兩者都將為平台帶來更多客戶，無論是購買我們的資料還是參與大大小小的私人市場交易。

As our RIA grows beyond 100 billion -- beyond $1 billion in AUM, we're actively expanding our wealth management capabilities, both organically and through M&A while laying the groundwork to deliver new financial innovations including multi-asset funds and passive investing opportunities to this market.

隨著我們的 RIA 成長超過 1000 億（AUM 超過 10 億美元），我們正在積極擴大我們的財富管理能力，包括有機成長和併購，同時為向該市場提供新的金融創新（包括多資產基金和被動投資機會）奠定基礎。

With that in mind, we also announced our intent to acquire Accuidity Capital Management, a specialized asset management firm focused on private investing, which would accelerate our expansion into asset management.

考慮到這一點，我們也宣布了收購專注於私人投資的專業資產管理公司 Accuidity Capital Management 的意向，這將加速我們在資產管理領域的擴張。

Accuidity manages the Megacorn fund, the first institutionally managed index fund that seeks to provide exposure to private late stage companies by seeking to replicate the performance of the Forge Accuidity Private Market index. The Megacorn Fund has recently filed an application with the SEC to register as an interval fund that would allow access to a diversified fund of private stocks by a broader investor set.

Accuidity 管理 Megacorn 基金，這是第一家機構管理的指數基金，旨在透過複製 Forge Accuidity Private Market 指數的表現來為私人後期公司提供投資機會。Megacorn Fund 最近向美國證券交易委員會提交了一份申請，希望註冊為一個間隔基金，以便更廣泛的投資者能夠投資多元化的私募股票基金。

We're already working with Accuidity as a partner and believe the ability of their business to contribute recurring revenue to complement what we're already building is compelling. We believe the role we are playing is critical to the private market's evolution and to expanding broad participation globally, and given our momentum, we're optimistic about the path ahead.

我們已經與 Accuidity 建立了合作夥伴關係，並相信他們的業務能夠貢獻經常性收入來補充我們正在建立的業務，這一點非常引人注目。我們相信，我們所扮演的角色對於私人市場的發展和擴大全球廣泛參與至關重要，鑑於我們的發展勢頭，我們對未來的道路充滿樂觀。

Now, I'll turn it over to James to dive deeper into our financial performance for the quarter.

現在，我將把話題交給詹姆斯，讓他更深入地探討我們本季的財務表現。

Thanks, Kelly. As we noted in our pre-release, improving market dynamics, post-selection further carried into the start of the year, and several large institutional block traits contributed to our best revenue quarter as a public company.

謝謝，凱利。正如我們在預發布中指出的那樣，市場動態的改善、後期選擇在年初進一步延續，以及幾個大型機構區塊特徵促成了我們作為上市公司的最佳收入季度。

Strong marketplace revenue more than offset the expected decline in custodial administration fees, demonstrating the benefits of our diverse revenue model. And as we noted on our last call, we experienced the full impact of the fourth-quarter 2024 rate cuts in the first quarter, contributing to the expected decline in custodial administration fees.

強勁的市場收入超過了託管管理費的預期下降，證明了我們多元化收入模式的優勢。正如我們在上次電話會議上指出的那樣，我們在第一季感受到了 2024 年第四季降息的全面影響，這導致託管管理費預計下降。

Focus on our costs remains a key priority for 2025, whilst balancing selective investment into our key strategic initiatives, including continuing to roll out enhancements to the Forge next generation platform.

專注於成本仍然是 2025 年的首要任務，同時平衡對我們關鍵策略計畫的選擇性投資，包括繼續推出 Forge 下一代平台的增強功能。

We'll go into more detail about the higher quarter-over-quarter operating expenses in a moment, but after taking into account higher variable expenses directly linked to revenue growth and CFO transition costs, our core operating expenses declined compared to the last quarter.

我們稍後會詳細介紹季度環比營運費用的增加，但在考慮到與收入成長和財務長過渡成本直接相關的較高變動費用後，我們的核心營運費用與上一季相比有所下降。

We are encouraged to see a continued -- continuing uptick in Forge managed SPV volume during the quarter, reinforcing the value of our RIA business and supporting the strategic rationale behind the potential Accuidity acquisition.

我們很高興地看到，本季 Forge 管理的 SPV 交易量持續上升，增強了我們的 RIA 業務的價值，並支持了潛在收購 Accuidity 背後的策略原則。

As well as being strategically compelling, if completed, we believe the acquisition will be accretive to EPS and transformational to forges revenue streams by adding new recurring revenue. After the end of the quarter close, we also completed the planned 15 for 1 reverse stock splits and have commenced our share re-buyback program.

我們相信，此次收購不僅具有戰略吸引力，一旦完成，還將增加每股收益，並透過增加新的經常性收入來創造收入來源。本季結束後，我們也完成了計畫中的 15 比 1 反向股票分割，並開始了股票回購計畫。

Whilst announced tariffs and escalating trade tensions don't have a direct impact on us, the volatility in the public markets and heightened concerns about a potential recession are contributing to an unpredictable economic landscape, making business forecasting and decision making difficult.

雖然宣布的關稅和不斷升級的貿易緊張局勢不會對我們產生直接影響，但公開市場的波動和對潛在經濟衰退的擔憂加劇，導致經濟狀況難以預測，使商業預測和決策變得困難。

However, our strong deal pipeline persists as we progress through the second quarter, and we continue to perform in line with our expectations. Now moving to our performance for the first quarter.

然而，隨著第二季的進展，我們強勁的交易管道依然存在，而且我們的表現繼續符合我們的預期。現在來看看我們第一季的業績。

This was our best revenue quarter as a public company, with total revenue reaching $25.3 million, up 36% from the last quarter. Q1 marketplace revenues were $16 million, up 85% from the last quarter. Trading volume increased 132% from $299 million to $692 million quarter over quarter, with an increased proportion of SPV volume, including several large block trades.

這是我們作為上市公司收入最好的一個季度，總收入達到 2,530 萬美元，較上一季成長 36%。第一季市場營收為 1,600 萬美元，較上一季成長 85%。交易量較上季成長 132%，從 2.99 億美元增至 6.92 億美元，其中 SPV 交易量佔比增加，包括幾筆大宗交易。

SPV trades generally close quicker, increase liquidity in the markets, and have the potential to produce stickier revenue for Forge as investors trade in and out of those fund vehicles. Net take rates declined from 2.8% to 2.3% in the quarter.

SPV 交易通常更快結束，增加了市場的流動性，隨著投資者進出這些基金工具，有可能為 Forge 帶來更穩定的收入。本季淨利率從 2.8% 下降至 2.3%。

The decline is primarily attributable to the rate achieved on the several large SPV block trades during the quarter. The impact of these factors on the quarter-over-quarter marketplace revenues are shown in the waterfall graph on the top right of the slide.

下降的主要原因是本季幾筆大型 SPV 大宗交易的利率下降。這些因素對季度環比市場收入的影響顯示在幻燈片右上角的瀑布圖中。

Custodial administration fees totaled $9.3 million, a 7% decline from the last quarter. As expected, we experienced the full impact of the 2024 rate cuts in the quarter. Custodial Client Cash balances totaled $460 million at the end of the first quarter, down from the $483 million at year end.

託管管理費總計 930 萬美元，較上一季下降 7%。正如預期的那樣，我們在本季感受到了 2024 年降息的全面影響。第一季末，託管客戶現金餘額總計 4.6 億美元，低於年底的 4.83 億美元。

The impact of these factors on the quarter-over-quarter custodial revenues are shown in the water graph on the bottom right of the slide. Our first-quarter operating expenses increased to $41.6 million from $37 million. Looking at the waterfall charts on the bottom of the slide, you'll see the quarter-over-quarter changes in operating expenses, including a $2.9 million increase related to revenue generation, a $2.3 million cost for CFO transition, and an increase of $0.5 million related to our continued investment in our technology.

這些因素對季度環比託管收入的影響顯示在投影片右下角的水圖中。我們第一季的營運費用從 3,700 萬美元增至 4,160 萬美元。查看投影片底部的瀑布圖，您會看到營運費用的季度環比變化，包括與創收相關的 290 萬美元增加、CFO 過渡成本 230 萬美元，以及與我們持續投資技術相關的 50 萬美元增加。

Core operating expenses after these items declined $1.1 million with quarter-over-quarter savings from our disciplined approach to spending and realization of the full impact of the cost actions we took in the second half of last year.

在扣除這些項目後，核心營運費用下降了 110 萬美元，這得益於我們採取了嚴格的支出方式，並充分發揮了去年下半年採取的成本行動的影響，環比節省了開支。

With regard to technology spend, as we have previously noted, we started to utilize offshore locations with some temporary increases in cost as we run parallel across locations to ensure operational stability. Savings in this area are expected to start towards the end of this year as we progress towards profitability in 2026.

關於技術支出，正如我們之前提到的，我們開始利用離岸地點，由於我們在各個地點並行運行以確保營運穩定性，因此成本會暫時增加。隨著我們朝著 2026 年盈利的目標邁進，預計該領域的節省將在今年年底開始。

Our $16.2 million first quarter net loss was basically flat on the $16 million net loss in the previous quarter. Higher revenue net of transaction-based expenses were offset by higher operating expenses.

我們第一季的淨虧損為 1,620 萬美元，與上一季的 1,600 萬美元淨虧損基本持平。扣除交易費用後的較高收入被較高的營運費用所抵銷。

In the first quarter of '25, adjusted EBITDA loss was $8.9 million compared to a loss of $10.9 million in the prior quarter, excluding the cash component of CFO transition costs, adjusted EBITDA would have been $7.5 million in the first quarter.

25 年第一季度，調整後的 EBITDA 虧損為 890 萬美元，而上一季的虧損為 1,090 萬美元，若不包括財務長過渡成本的現金部分，則第一季度調整後的 EBITDA 將為 750 萬美元。

Net cash used operating activities was $12.8 million in the current quarter compared to $7.9 million last quarter. The increase was primarily attributable to changes in working capital, the largest of which is the change in accrued compensation.

本季經營活動所用淨現金為 1,280 萬美元，而上一季為 790 萬美元。成長主要歸因於營運資本的變化，其中最大的變化是應計薪酬的變化。

During the first quarter, we initiated an investment program with $21.5 million invested in the portfolio of government, agency, and corporate securities at the quarter end. Our investment program is focused on maximizing return in line with the preservation of capital and support for our liquidity environments.

在第一季度，我們啟動了一項投資計劃，在季度末向政府、機構和公司證券投資組合投資了 2,150 萬美元。我們的投資計劃專注於在保全資本和支持流動性環境的同時實現回報最大化。

We invest in highly rated debt securities with an average credit rating of AA. At quarter-end, the average duration in the portfolio was less than three months and the maximum maturity was six months. Combined liquidity, including the short-term investments we have made was $93.1 million at March 31 compared to $106.3 million at December 31.

我們投資於平均信用評級為 AA 的高評級債務證券。截至季末，投資組合的平均期限不到三個月，最長期限為六個月。包括我們所做的短期投資在內的綜合流動資金在 3 月 31 日為 9,310 萬美元，而 12 月 31 日為 1.063 億美元。

Cash, cash equivalents, and restricted cash ended the quarter at $71.6 million. We've commenced repurchases under our previously announced share repurchase program. As the market closed on May 6, we repurchased approximately 315,000 shares at an average price of $13.15 per share.

本季末，現金、現金等價物和受限現金為 7,160 萬美元。我們已經根據先前宣布的股票回購計畫開始回購。截至 5 月 6 日市場收盤，我們以每股 13.15 美元的平均價格回購了約 315,000 股。

This strategic action reflects our belief that Forge stock continues to be significantly undervalued, and opportunistically buying back stock represents a compelling opportunity for the company to increase shareholder value while maintaining the strength of balance sheets positioning Forge future growth.

這項策略行動反映了我們的信念，即 Forge 股票繼續被嚴重低估，而機會性地回購股票為公司提供了一個絕佳的機會，可以提高股東價值，同時保持資產負債表的強勁，為 Forge 的未來成長奠定基礎。

Finally, we are pleased to announce the completion of our previously approved reverse stock splits returning Forge compliance with [90] listing standards. You can see the before and after effects of the reverse split on our reported EPS and weighted average shares outstanding on the slide. We have also provided estimated second quarter and full-year '25 weighted average basic common shares for EPS modeling purposes.

最後，我們很高興地宣布，我們先前批准的反向股票分割已經完成，Forge 重新符合 [90] 上市標準。您可以在投影片上看到反向分割對我們報告的每股盈餘和加權平均流通股的前後影響。我們還提供了第二季和全年 25 年加權平均基本普通股的估計值，以用於 EPS 建模。

I'll hand it back to Kelly before we go to questions.

在我們開始提問之前，我會把它交還給凱利。

Thanks James. As James noted and as many companies have reported, it's difficult to predict how the impact of tariffs will shape the economy going forward. What we know today is that Forge's pipeline remains strong.

謝謝詹姆斯。正如詹姆斯以及許多公司所指出的，很難預測關稅的影響將如何影響未來的經濟。我們今天知道的是，Forge 的管道仍然強大。

However, we are remaining cautious until we have more certainty about the impact of tariffs. In terms of market outlook, we're observing mixed signals since the start of the quarter. A number of companies reportedly paused plans for IPOs in the past several weeks, including Klarna, Stubhub, and Chime.

然而，在我們對關稅的影響有更確定的認識之前，我們仍將保持謹慎。就市場前景而言，自本季初以來，我們觀察到了混合訊號。據報道，過去幾週，包括 Klarna、Stubhub 和 Chime 在內的多家公司暫停了 IPO 計劃。

And we've seen some softening in terms of buy side demand and valuations with the Forge private market index down 1.9% in April. However, we've noted the less liquid nature of private markets tends to smooth the volatility, and you don't see the huge day to day swings of the public markets, that certainly remained true over the past five weeks.

我們看到買方需求和估值減弱，4 月 Forge 私人市場指數下跌了 1.9%。然而，我們注意到私人市場流動性較差的性質往往會平滑波動，而且你不會看到公開市場每天出現巨大的波動，過去五週的情況確實如此。

We're also recognizing a growing acceptance among private market stakeholders that as IPOs get pushed farther and farther out, the private market can offer liquidity to bridge the GAAP for companies and their investors and state and shareholders.

我們也意識到，私人市場利害關係人越來越接受這樣的觀點：隨著 IPO 的延遲，私人市場可以提供流動性，為公司及其投資者、國家和股東之間搭建起 GAAP 之間的橋樑。

As demand for liquidity intensifies and even as volatility persists, we're preparing in coming months to launch key parts of our fully automated experience which will drive more efficiency into this market to give private companies more visibility into and control of primary capital and liquidity options as they navigate an uncertain macro environment.

隨著流動性需求的加劇以及波動性的持續，我們準備在未來幾個月推出全自動體驗的關鍵部分，這將提高這個市場的效率，使私營公司在應對不確定的宏觀環境時能夠更好地了解和控制主要資本和流動性選擇。

With that, thank you for joining us, and we'll open it up to questions.

感謝您的參與，我們將開放提問。

(Operator Instructions) Owen Lau, Oppenheimer.

（操作員指示）Owen Lau，Oppenheimer。

Hi, this is Guru on for Owen, and thanks a lot for taking our questions. I want to start with the Accuidity acquisition. Can you maybe just walk us through the rationale there, what opportunities you're seeing and what the long-term playbook looks like with Accuidity, and specifically can you maybe just touch on the role in driving recurring revenue? Thanks.

大家好，我是 Owen 的 Guru，非常感謝您回答我們的問題。我想從 Accuidity 收購開始。您能否向我們簡單介紹其中的原理、您看到了哪些機會以及 Accuidity 的長期發展計劃，特別是您能否談談它在推動經常性收入方面所發揮的作用？謝謝。

Yeah, Guru, I'll start and James, you can you can add if you'd like. As we've been reporting, we've recognized for the last couple of years that a bigger piece of the market was trading with less friction through our SPV fund structures.

是的，大師，我先開始，詹姆斯，如果你願意的話，你可以添加。正如我們一直在報導的那樣，過去幾年來我們已經認識到，透過我們的 SPV 基金結構，更大的市場份額可以以更少的摩擦進行交易。

And we started reporting the expansion of that AUM last year, and as we've reported most recently, we're about $1 billion of AUM in the background. We've been looking at the relationship between interest in a broader set of participants looking at buying into the market through a basket of either active or passive fund structures.

我們從去年開始報告 AUM 的擴張情況，正如我們最近報告的那樣，我們的 AUM 規模約為 10 億美元。我們一直在研究更廣泛的參與者透過一籃子主動或被動基金結構入市之間的利益關係。

And we've been working with Accuidity over the last I guess 1 year to 18 months in supporting. The rolling out of their Megacorn fund and using our index to track it. And so our conclusion was that accelerating access through passive data driven funds was going to be a big part of how the market evolved.

在過去的 1 年到 18 個月裡，我們一直與 Accuidity 合作提供支援。推出他們的 Megacorn 基金並使用我們的指數來追蹤它。因此，我們的結論是，透過被動數據驅動基金加速獲取資訊將成為市場發展的重要組成部分。

And Forge believes there's a unique opportunity given our background, our history, the fact that we've got a custodial asset to start to bring an innovative set of products to market that could be packaged with custody and distributed through to wealth complexes around the world.

Forge 認為，鑑於我們的背景、歷史以及我們擁有託管資產的事實，我們擁有一個獨特的機會，可以開始將一系列創新產品推向市場，這些產品可以與託管打包並分發到世界各地的財富綜合體。

This is incredibly strategic because the underlying expansion of the AUM of single name SPVs as well as the scalability of a passive fund led by the leadership of Accuidity really looked like a strategic opportunity for us to not just build and expand our AUM dramatically.

這具有極其重要的戰略意義，因為單一名稱 SPV 的 AUM 的潛在擴張以及由 Accuidity 領導層領導的被動基金的可擴展性確實對我們來說是一個戰略機遇，不僅可以大幅建立和擴大我們的 AUM。

But have a bigger relationship with companies that make up. The Forge private market index and drive the underlying asset and data aspects of our business by acquiring more of the underlying shares required to feed that fund, and we believe not unlike the public markets where you see ETFs and passive indexes really being the majority of what trades now, we saw that as a really important strategic part of our future.

但與組成的公司有更大的關係。打造私人市場指數，並透過收購更多為該基金提供資金所需的基礎股票來推動我們業務的基礎資產和數據方面，我們相信，與公開市場不同，在公開市場中，ETF 和被動指數實際上是目前交易的大多數，我們認為這是我們未來真正重要的戰略部分。

When you look at the revenue composition and the model itself, you're looking at very attractive, high margin and recurring revenue lines for us. And there's more to come. We haven't fully announced the impact of this because we haven't closed the deal yet, but we just believe that the relationship between that and the platform and data itself is a really natural and strategic relationship. We're really excited about it.

當你查看收入組成和模型本身時，你會看到我們收入來源非常有吸引力，利潤率高，並且經常性收入充足。未來還會有更多。由於我們尚未完成交易，因此我們尚未完全宣布此事的影響，但我們相信，這與平台和數據本身之間的關係是一種非常自然和戰略的關係。我們對此感到非常興奮。

Yeah, and I think just to add that on the revenue side, thanks for the question. I think there are two elements. First, only a suite of fund structures, whether they're single name SPVs, baskets or funds, like the Megacorn funds produces a stickier flow of revenue into the platform as people need to trade in those vehicles, but also the flow that comes from people having to invest in that and the fund getting those underlying liquidity.

是的，我想補充一下收入方面的問題，謝謝你的提問。我認為有兩個因素。首先，只有一套基金結構，無論是單一名稱 SPV、籃子還是基金，例如 Megacorn 基金，才能為平台帶來更黏性的收入流，因為人們需要交易這些工具，而且還有來自人們必須投資這些工具以及基金獲得這些基礎流動性的收入流。

I think the second element is that part of the business will start to look more like a traditional asset manager and as kind of those fees are recurring management fees in nature and as the AUMs continue to grow. We'll continue to get a benefit of that kind of growing recurring revenue stream.

我認為第二個因素是，部分業務將開始變得更像傳統的資產管理，而這些費用本質上是經常性的管理費，而且資產管理規模還在不斷增長。我們將繼續從這種不斷增長的經常性收入流中獲益。

Got it. Thanks a lot.

知道了。多謝。

Devin Ryan, Citizens.

德文·瑞安（Devin Ryan），公民。

Great, good morning everyone. How are you?

太好了，大家早安。你好嗎？

Right.

正確的。

Good. Welcome back just on the SPVs and maybe approach it from a slightly different angle love to maybe just talk about the considerations of setting one up for a specific company. What are the considerations and how many more single name SPVs can you imagine over the next couple of years, that are being traded on the platform relative to what you're seeing today. And then interrelated, how are you feeling about distribution right now?

好的。歡迎回來討論 SPV，也許可以從稍微不同的角度來探討這個問題，也許只是談論為特定公司設立 SPV 的考慮因素。與您今天所見的情況相比，您認為未來幾年內平台上會有多少個單一名稱 SPV 進行交易？然後相互關聯，現在您對分銷有什麼感覺？

What steps are you taking to expand relationships and provide access and drive more liquidity, whether that be partnerships with brokerages or RIAs or even institutional platforms going to wear you from a distribution perspective for these? Thanks.

您正在採取哪些措施來擴大關係、提供管道並推動更多流動性，無論是與經紀公司或 RIA 建立合作夥伴關係，還是從分銷角度為您提供服務的機構平台？謝謝。

As usual, great questions, Devin. Thank you. On the first one, the SPV structure itself and the considerations around it are pretty straightforward. We believe that any company that becomes interesting and big enough and mature enough to draw either liquidity interest or interest from investors should have an SPV on their cap structure, and we've got about 100 of them now, and we envision there to be several hundreds in the coming years.

像往常一樣，德文，你問的問題很棒。謝謝。首先，SPV 結構本身及其周圍的考慮因素非常簡單。我們相信，任何一家變得有趣、規模足夠大、足夠成熟，能夠吸引流動性利益或投資者興趣的公司都應該在其資本結構中設立 SPV，我們現在有大約 100 家這樣的公司，我們預計未來幾年將會有數百家這樣的公司。

Part of the consideration is that it's given the way company bylaws and private companies operate in terms of getting in and off from a cap table, it's just way more efficient for these structures to exist to allow investors or existing shareholders to come in and out of the company with less friction.

部分考慮是，考慮到公司章程和私人公司在加入和退出股權結構方面的運作方式，這些結構的存在效率更高，可以讓投資者或現有股東以更少的摩擦加入和退出公司。

The requirements to the Board of Directors to the C-suite just makes it more efficient. And so part of our technology consideration is to build a sort of a multi-structure approach to how liquidity, including primary capital, comes in and out of a company. And so we believe that these SPV structures are really meant to provide a more efficient way to get in and out.

對董事會和高階主管的要求只是為了提高效率。因此，我們技術考量的一部分是建立多結構方法來解決流動性（包括原始資本）如何進出公司的問題。因此，我們相信這些 SPV 結構實際上是為了提供更有效的進出方式。

Now that's on the single name side. When you start getting into large investment instruments that have multiple names, then you start addressing some of the issues of, I think, distribution. We already have RIAs and institutional investors trading in and out of our SPV structures as.

現在，這是單名方面。當你開始接觸具有多個名稱的大型投資工具時，你就會開始解決一些問題，我認為，是分銷問題。我們已經有 RIA 和機構投資者在我們的 SPV 結構中進行交易。

James's comments indicated in addition to having large block trades in Q1, many of those were in SPV structures, so institutions are participating in these at fairly high transaction sort of numbers here. But when you look at this concept of this SEC fund that Accuidity has announced.

詹姆斯的評論表明，除了第一季的大宗交易外，其中許多交易都是採用 SPV 結構，因此機構參與這些交易的數量相當高。但是當你看看 Accuidity 宣布的這個 SEC 基金的概念時。

Now that could allow a broader set of American investors to participate in the private markets through a passive instrument. And so the implication there for distribution is quite significant. The track record of the guys at Accuidity, given their history at Fidelity, and their understanding of broad-based distribution gets us really excited about the scalability factor of what that could mean.

現在，這可以讓更廣泛的美國投資者透過被動工具參與私人市場。因此這對分銷的意義是相當重大的。考慮到 Accuidity 員工在 Fidelity 的任職經驗以及他們對廣泛分銷的理解，我們對這可能意味著的可擴展性因素感到非常興奮。

And so there's a really interesting dynamic relationship between having to run a large multi-company basket fund and its ability to get in and out of positions through SPVs that sit in single name companies that are also part of the index. So that's what makes this really interesting and strategic for us. And I'll let you James add anything if you'd like?

因此，在管理大型多公司籃子基金和透過位於指數中的單一名稱公司的 SPV 進出頭寸的能力之間存在著非常有趣的動態關係。所以這對我們來說真的很有趣並且具有戰略意義。詹姆斯，如果您願意的話，我可以為您添加任何內容嗎？

(inaudible)

（聽不清楚）

Okay, that's great color, Kelly. Thank you. And then just another follow up it's also kind of multi-part here. But I appreciate we're in an uncertain environment right now, but it would be great to just get a little bit more characterization around what you saw kind of through the first quarter and customers kind of re-engaging prior to maybe the tariffs.

好的，顏色很棒，凱利。謝謝。然後還有另一個後續內容，這裡也是多部分的。但我知道我們現在處於一個不確定的環境，但如果能更詳細地描述第一季度的情況，以及在關稅實施之前客戶重新參與的情況，那就太好了。

And then just curious whether it's broad-based or are there certain sectors or types of investors that are re-engaging, the pipeline that you're talking about is that more sellers showing up or buying appetite, and so love to kind of just dig in a little bit around that characterization.

然後我只是好奇它是否具有廣泛的基礎，或者是否有某些特定行業或類型的投資者重新參與，您所說的管道是更多的賣家出現或購買慾望，因此喜歡圍繞這一特徵進行深入研究。

And then the large institutional block trades that you guys cited, I'm curious if that was just episodic or if that's also a condition of just the market's improving and so that the markets hopefully get better from here, that will just be a condition that probably we see moving forward here that could be some chunky revenues moving forward? Thank you.

然後，你們提到的大型機構大宗交易，我很好奇這是否只是偶發現象，或者這是否也是市場改善的一種情況，因此希望市場從現在開始變得更好，這只是一種我們可能看到的向前發展的狀況，可能會帶來一些可觀的收入？謝謝。

Well, so I think Q1, as everyone observed it was a moment where I think there was a tremendous amount of optimism that we were finally going to see macroeconomic conditions turn to a more open IPO market. And so, I guess I would anecdotally characterize it as, everybody was coming back into the market. We saw institutions, individuals, and company-based programs kind of across the board.

嗯，所以我認為，正如大家所觀察到的，在第一季度，我認為大家非常樂觀地認為，我們最終將看到宏觀經濟條件轉向更開放的 IPO 市場。因此，我想我會用軼事的方式將其描述為，每個人都回到了市場。我們看到了各種各樣的機構、個人和公司計劃。

I'd say that AI is still a driving theme and probably the biggest sector in the market right now, and that trend will continue as far as we can see forward. I'd say really the only significant change in observation is around uncertainty around tariffs. I think that that came at a point where people were optimistic.

我想說，人工智慧仍然是一個驅動主題，可能是目前市場上最大的領域，就我們所知，這種趨勢將持續下去。我想說，觀察中唯一顯著的變化是圍繞關稅的不確定性。我認為這是人們感到樂觀的時候。

There were IPOs planning and others were talking about it, so we tracked not only publicly filed intentions to go public or go IPO as well as we just sort of listen to the market. So I think we're really in a period of uncertainty now as James pointed out, the pipeline continues to be really favorable.

有 IPO 計劃，其他人也在談論此事，因此我們不僅追蹤公開提交的上市或 IPO 意向，而且我們也只是傾聽市場的聲音。所以我認為我們現在確實處於一個不確定時期，正如詹姆斯指出的那樣，管道仍然非常有利。

So we're sitting here in a moment trying to communicate a combination of optimism and the fact that there's a lot of good news happening at Forge and in the private market at the same time, the backdrop is pretty unpredictable. So we really can't give any further response than that. I think we're all just waiting to see what happens, but we continue to hold firm in terms of our optimism towards achieving what our view of Q2 is going to look like and what the guidance or at least the consensus that's out there would say. So, we'll wait and see.

因此，我們此刻坐在這裡，試圖傳達一種樂觀情緒，以及這樣一個事實：Forge 和私人市場同時發生了很多好消息，但背景是相當難以預測的。所以我們真的無法給出進一步的回應。我認為我們都在等待看會發生什麼，但我們仍然堅定地保持樂觀態度，對實現我們對第二季度的預期以及指導方針或至少是現有的共識持樂觀態度。所以，我們拭目以待。

(multiple speakers) Yeah, I think your second question around large block trades. I mean, I think that is -- we've had those in history. We've had a number of them through last year and prior periods. I think those will continue to be a factor now whether they happen every quarter or two or three quarters a year, I think that that is a little unpredictable.

（多位發言者）是的，我認為您的第二個問題與大宗交易有關。我的意思是，我認為──我們在歷史上曾經有過這些。去年和前期我們已經遇到很多這樣的情況。我認為這些現在仍將是一個因素，無論它們是每個季度發生還是每年兩到三個季度發生，我認為這有點難以預測。

I think as the -- as our market grows and continues to see more volumes coming through our platform business, I think we will envisage a mix of trades from very large institutional blocks through too much smaller trades and as we talked about in terms of the various funds that will be coming onto the platform with the Accuidity acquisition potentially much smaller sizes. So I think the range of trades you see on the platform is only going to increase.

我認為，隨著我們的市場不斷增長，透過我們的平台業務的交易量不斷增加，我們將看到從非常大的機構區塊到大量小額交易的混合交易，正如我們談到的，隨著 Accuidity 收購，進入平台的各種基金的規模可能會小得多。所以我認為您在平台上看到的交易範圍只會增加。

Yeah, okay, that's great. Thank you all. I appreciate it.

是的，好的，太好了。謝謝大家。我很感激。

Thanks, Devin.

謝謝，德文。

Ken Worthington, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的肯‧沃辛頓。

Hi, good morning, guys. This is Michael Cho in for Ken. I just wanted to touch on the couple of other announcements you made during the quarter's nice to see the Yahoo and I announcements for Forge pricing data.

大家好，早安。這是 Michael Cho 代替 Ken 做的。我只是想談談您在本季發布的其他幾個公告，很高興看到雅虎和我發布的 Forge 定價數據公告。

I realized there's a number of priorities around index and private market data that you've been initiating, but I was hoping you could provide an update on the broader Forge data business, just in terms of how it's things have been trending in terms of signing new clients and maybe the trajectory of revenues just given the various efforts around building up this business?

我意識到您一直在啟動圍繞指數和私人市場數據的一系列優先事項，但我希望您能提供有關更廣泛的 Forge 數據業務的最新情況，例如簽約新客戶方面的趨勢，以及考慮到圍繞建立這項業務所做的各種努力，收入的軌跡如何？

Yeah, sure. So, I think part of what we see in 2025 is an evolution and maturing of our business model. And I think, I'll just make the commitment now, James and I have been working together now for four, five months. And we really want to start to deliver a clearer and deeper understanding of all of the things that contribute to Forge's revenue, including the data.

是的，當然。所以，我認為我們在 2025 年看到的部分內容是我們的商業模式的演變和成熟。我想，我現在就做出承諾，詹姆斯和我已經一起工作了四五個月。我們確實希望開始更清晰、更深入地了解所有對 Forge 收入有貢獻的因素，包括數據。

What I believe these announcements most recently reflect is a strategy that we started of last year, and that was really about having Forge and Forge's branded data be everywhere. And so the Yahoo deal and the fact that CNBC now uses us as a core part of their editorial on the private markets and the ICE distribution arrangement really underlies the Phase 1 of our strategy, which is get Forges' data everywhere and brand reliability and price discovery around Forge. There's a bunch of little companies trying to spin up data offerings and we think that Forge needs to bring the integrity and reliability across a range of participants.

我認為這些最新公告反映的是我們去年開始實施的一項策略，那就是讓 Forge 和 Forge 的品牌數據無所不在。因此，雅虎交易以及 CNBC 現在將我們作為其私人市場社論的核心部分和 ICE 分銷安排的事實實際上構成了我們戰略第一階段的基礎，即在任何地方獲取 Forges 的數據以及圍繞 Forge 的品牌可靠性和價格發現。許多小公司都在嘗試提供資料服務，我們認為 Forge 需要為眾多參與者帶來完整性和可靠性。

So we care more about that right now and dominating that, then we care about the quarter-over-quarter revenue contribution from data on a subscription basis. That having been said, we believe that the ICE deal, which is being sold by a sales force that's bigger and bolder than just about anybody out there is really targeting more institutions and more revenue generation on a going forward basis.

因此，我們現在更關心這一點並主導這一點，然後我們關心訂閱數據帶來的季度環比收入貢獻。話雖如此，我們相信，ICE 交易的銷售團隊比任何人都更強大、更大膽，其真正目標是吸引更多機構並在未來創造更多收入。

Like a lot of other people, we started selling direct into the market and we've got a number of our existing clients using either Forge Price or Forge Pro. But until we get a steady and predictable stream of revenue from data, we will likely not report on data revenue separately.

像許多其他人一樣，我們開始直接向市場銷售，而我們的許多現有客戶都在使用 Forge Price 或 Forge Pro。但在我們獲得穩定且可預測的數據收入流之前，我們可能不會單獨報告數據收入。

But believe me, our view of the future of our marketplace, the platform with data, and the revenue generation that's highly technology enabled and with higher margin, we look forward to talking about in future earnings calls. But today, we want Forge price to be everywhere. Because that's what leads people to say, okay, if I want to sell it, if I want to buy it, I'm going to go there.

但請相信我，我們期待在未來的財報電話會議上談論我們對市場未來的看法、數據平台以及高度技術支援且利潤率更高的創收方式。但今天，我們希望 Forge 價格無所不在。因為這就是讓人們說，好吧，如果我想賣它，如果我想買它，我就會去那裡。

And if you click on that icon on Yahoo Finance, you're going to get dropped right into a qualifying page and you're going to be able to drop right into a company that you want to get information on to see whether or not you're going to buy it or sell it. So right now, that's where our focus is. I don't know if you'd like to anything to that, James.

如果您點擊雅虎財經上的該圖標，您將直接進入資格審查頁面，您將能夠直接進入您想要獲取資訊的公司，以決定是否要購買或出售它。所以現在，這就是我們的重點。我不知道你是否願意做點什麼，詹姆斯。

No, I think that's good.

不，我認為那很好。

Kelly, thanks for all the color. And if I could just ask the follow up on just tickets volume and take rates, I mean, as you call that, [$700 million] of volume, I mean, I don't think that's something we've seen since maybe 2021.

凱利，謝謝你帶來的所有色彩。如果我可以問一下後續的票房數量和利率情況，我的意思是，正如你所說的，[7 億美元] 的票房數量，我認為自 2021 年以來我們可能就沒有見過這樣的情況了。

But if I compare today versus then, take rates are considerably different, and I was hoping maybe you could talk through maybe the differences in that volume mix you've seen in Forge over the years that's impacting that pay rate and maybe given the increasing usage of SPVs and maybe more institutional mix from here, how do you think pay grades kind of trend going forward?

但是如果我將現在與當時進行比較，接受率會有很大差異，我希望您能談談多年來您在 Forge 中看到的交易量組合差異對薪酬率的影響，也許考慮到 SPV 的使用率不斷增加以及從現在開始更多的機構組合，您認為未來的薪酬等級趨勢如何？

Yeah, thanks Mike. I mean, I think over time if you're comparing back to several years ago, I think there has been a shift in the mix of liquidity to be increasingly within SPVs and fund structures, and those structures, whether they're ours or third party structures do have fees embedded in them, so they traditionally we charge a lower rate on those for trading.

是的，謝謝邁克。我的意思是，我認為隨著時間的推移，如果與幾年前進行比較，流動性組合已經發生了變化，越來越多地集中在 SPV 和基金結構中，而這些結構，無論是我們的還是第三方的結構，都包含費用，因此傳統上我們對這些交易收取較低的費率。

So that mix is pushing down the rate a bit as well as the, as I said, the significantly large trades, those do tend to come at a lower rate. So in the quarters where we have kind of those big blocks like we had in Q1, that does affect it too.

因此，這種組合會稍微壓低利率，而且，正如我所說，大型交易的利率往往會較低。因此，在我們遇到像第一季那樣的大塊數據的季度中，這也會產生影響。

I think over time with a maturing of the markets and an increase in liquidity generally, I think the trend we've seen over the last few years, I would anticipate that trend of slowly continues in that right direction, but I'd also back to the comment I made to Devin's question. I think we're going to see an increasing diversity in the types of liquidity through the platform from large to very small.

我認為隨著時間的推移，隨著市場的成熟和流動性的普遍增加，我認為我們在過去幾年中看到的趨勢，我預計這種趨勢會慢慢地繼續朝著正確的方向發展，但我也要回到我對 Devin 的問題所做的評論。我認為我們將會看到透過該平台的流動性類型變得越來越多樣化，從大型到小型。

And within that mix we'll have a big diversity in the commission rates that we charge those different participants. So, I think this will continue to be a mixed question quarter to quarter and month to month, but overall as the market matures and liquidity continues to grow, I think we'll see a small decline over time.

在這種組合中，我們向不同參與者收取的佣金率會大不相同。因此，我認為這將繼續是一個季度與季度之間、月與月之間的混合問題，但總體而言，隨著市場成熟和流動性不斷增長，我認為隨著時間的推移，我們會看到小幅下降。

Look, I just add one comment to this, and that is I think beyond the diversity of participants and I would say that quarter-over-quarter shifts in take rate in the recent, year or two have really been indicative of in what quarter do we have relatively more institutional block trades versus less. So a lot of what you see quarter to quarter is explained by that.

瞧，我只想對此補充一條評論，那就是我認為除了參與者的多樣性之外，我想說，最近一兩年內，季度環比的變化確實表明了在哪個季度我們的機構大宗交易相對較多，而較少。因此，您所看到的季度間變化的許多情況都可以用這個來解釋。

I think longer term, the vision of Forge is to bring an incredible level of technical efficiency to this marketplace, and in any marketplace prior to Forge, if you look at the fixed income marketplace, you'll see what's happened there to fee structures, and you're going to see that over the long haul here, but if you watch the trend intake rates over time, particularly as we roll out some of the things that are coming, it's just natural that as we start auto matching, as we start really getting into making it more efficient, that you're going to see the impact of that on take rate.

我認為從長遠來看，Forge 的願景是為這個市場帶來令人難以置信的技術效率，在 Forge 之前的任何市場中，如果您看看固定收益市場，您會看到那裡的費用結構發生了什麼變化，從長遠來看，你會看到這一點，但如果你觀察一段時間內的趨勢吸收率，特別是當我們推出一些即將推出的產品

And as this market grows and gains momentum and as you see products like the one we're talking about with liquidity come to market, you're going to see a natural reduction in the cost to participate in this market, and we expect to lead that and drive that and not be the people impacted by it, but be the people causing it and that to me is part of what the leadership position is going to look like in this market over the next two to three years.

隨著這個市場不斷增長並獲得發展勢頭，當你看到我們正在談論的具有流動性的產品進入市場時，你會看到參與這個市場的成本自然會降低，我們希望引領和推動這一進程，而不是成為受其影響的人，而是成為推動它的人，對我來說，這是未來兩到三年這個市場領導地位的一部分。

Great. Thanks guys. Appreciate all the color.

偉大的。謝謝大家。欣賞所有的色彩。

(Operator Instructions) Patrick Moley, Piper Sandler.

（操作員指示）派崔克·莫利、派珀·桑德勒。

Hey, good morning guys. So I just had one on regulation. There's been a big regulatory push recently to try to make it easier for retail to access private markets. I would love to just get kind of your thoughts on the regulatory backdrop, what it means for you guys, and any kind of expectations or milestones that you expect to see here on the regulatory front in the coming months? Thanks.

嘿，大家早安。所以我只有一個關於監管的問題。最近，監管部門大力推動，試圖讓零售業更容易進入私人市場。我很想了解您對監管背景的看法，這對你們意味著什麼，以及你們預計在未來幾個月內在監管方面會有什麼期望或里程碑？謝謝。

Yeah, Patrick, how are you? Great question. I just published an op-ed this week on the subject. and we see this -- and I've seen this for a decade as an issue. Our visits to Capitol Hill and to the SEC, there's a lot of interest within the regulators about how to balance the protections of individual investors and retail investors while also giving them access to really exciting and high performing asset class.

是的，派崔克，你好嗎？好問題。我本週剛發表了一篇有關該主題的專欄文章。我們看到了這一點——十年來我已經看到這個問題了。我們參觀了國會山莊和美國證券交易委員會，發現監管機構對如何平衡個人投資者和散戶投資者的保護，同時又讓他們能夠獲得真正令人興奮且表現優異的資產類別非常感興趣。

And so, we believe that there's a lot of attention right now on rewriting some of the rules around accredited investors and that's going to take whatever path it takes to the political and policy maker's offices in Washington.

因此，我們認為，現在人們非常關注重寫有關合格投資者的一些規則，無論採用何種方式，這都將提交給華盛頓的政治和政策制定者辦公室。

But we really felt like, and this is teeing up the whole liquidity rationale, we wanted to get in the market with products that people could access now. And so our view is, Yahoo's got something like $80 million, Yahoo Finance visitors, and when they show up to Forge, many of them don't understand that as a non-accredited investor, they can't buy a single name stock.

但我們確實覺得，這體現了整個流動性原理，我們希望將人們現在可以接觸到的產品帶入市場。因此，我們的觀點是，雅虎擁有大約 8000 萬美元的雅虎財經訪客，當他們出現在 Forge 時，他們中的許多人並不明白，作為非認可投資者，他們不能購買任何知名股票。

And so our view is let's continue to support the market efforts to rewrite some of these rules to give access to a broader set of investors, and we're working with policymakers on this now. We think it's really important. And there's a number of people in that coalition that believe the same thing. I'd say including BlackRock, some of the people that we've mentioned in this announcement, but between now and then, our view is let's give the market products that allow them to participate before those changes happen.

因此，我們的觀點是，讓我們繼續支持市場努力重寫其中一些規則，以便讓更廣泛的投資者能夠參與其中，我們現在正在與政策制定者就此進行合作。我們認為這確實很重要。聯盟中有許多人也持有同樣的看法。我想說，包括貝萊德，以及我們在這份聲明中提到的一些人，但從現在到那時，我們的觀點是，在這些變化發生之前，讓我們向市場提供允許他們參與的產品。

But I think you're seeing that come from a lot of different sources, including many of the people on in Washington across the aisle are looking at this and saying, private companies are such a big part of our economy.

但我認為你會從很多不同的來源看到這一點，包括華盛頓對面的許多人都在關注這一點，並說私人企業是我們經濟的重要組成部分。

And the growth of those private companies and the ability to invest in them should be accessible by a broader set of Americans. So we continue to be super supportive of policies that do that, and that's one of the reasons why we put that op-ed out most recently, but thank you for the question.

這些私人公司的成長和投資能力應該讓更多的美國人受益。因此，我們繼續大力支持這樣的政策，這也是我們最近發表該專欄文章的原因之一，但還是感謝您的提問。

Okay, great color, thanks. And then I, we're balancing a couple of earnings this morning, so I apologize if I missed it in your prepared remarks, but could you give any color just on your expectations around cash burn for the rest of this year, and going forward? Thanks.

好的，顏色很棒，謝謝。然後，我們今天早上要平衡幾筆收益，所以如果我在您準備好的發言中錯過了這一點，我深感抱歉，但您能否就今年剩餘時間和未來的現金消耗做出任何預測？謝謝。

Yeah, Patrick, we haven't given out any specific guidance around cash burn and won't, but we remain on track to hit our break even points in 2026. So we're expecting a cash burn in '25, that will be less than previous years.

是的，帕特里克，我們還沒有給出有關現金消耗的任何具體指導，也不會給出，但我們仍然有望在 2026 年實現收支平衡。因此，我們預計 25 年的現金消耗將低於前幾年。

As a reminder, Q1 is our highest cash burn quarter, mainly as the result of like paying out annual bonuses and the like, which is why you've seen the change in [accrues] conversation being the biggest driver of kind of cash change quarter over quarter, but where we continue to be confident on track to that kind of EBITDA -- adjusted EBITDA break-even in 2026, which kind of basically is kind of cash neutral kind of position.

提醒一下，第一季是我們現金消耗最高的季度，主要是因為支付年度獎金等，這就是為什麼你會看到[應計]對話的變化成為季度間現金變化的最大驅動力，但我們仍然有信心在 2026 年實現那種 EBITDA——調整後的 EBITDA 收支平衡，這基本上是一種現金中性的立場。

All right, great. That's it for me. Thanks.

好的，太好了。對我來說就是這樣。謝謝。

Thanks, Patrick.

謝謝，派崔克。

Carly, unless we have any other questions, I think we'll conclude today's conference call.

卡莉，除非我們還有其他問題，否則我想我們將結束今天的電話會議。

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call. Thank you all for joining. You may now disconnect. Goodbye.

女士們、先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝大家的加入。您現在可以斷開連線。再見。