Forestar Group Inc (FOR) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to Forestar's Fourth Quarter and Fiscal 2024 Earnings Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) Please note, this conference is being recorded.

早安，歡迎參加 Forestar 第四季和 2024 財年財報電話會議。（操作員說明）請注意，本次會議正在錄製中。

I will now turn the call over to Katie Smith, Vice President of Finance, and Investor Relations for Forestar.

我現在將把電話轉給 Forestar 財務和投資者關係副總裁凱蒂史密斯 (Katie Smith)。

Thank you, Jenny. Good morning, and welcome to the call to discuss Forestar's Fourth Quarter and Fiscal Year Results. Thank you for joining us. Before we get started, today's call includes forward-looking statements as defined by the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995.

謝謝你，珍妮。早上好，歡迎致電討論 Forestar 第四季和財年業績。感謝您加入我們。在我們開始之前，今天的電話會議包括 1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》所定義的前瞻性陳述。

Although Forestar believes any such statements are based on reasonable assumptions, there is no assurance that actual outcomes will not be materially different. All forward-looking statements are based upon information available to Forestar on the date of this conference call, and we do not undertake any obligation to update or revise any forward-looking statements publicly.

儘管 Forestar 認為任何此類陳述均基於合理假設，但不能保證實際結果不會有重大差異。所有前瞻性陳述均基於 Forestar 在本次電話會議之日獲得的信息，我們不承擔公開更新或修改任何前瞻性陳述的義務。

Additional information about factors that could lead to material changes in performance is contained in Forestar's annual report on Form 10-K and its most recent quarterly report on Form 10-Q, both of which were filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Our earnings release is available on our website at investor.forestar.com, and we plan to file our 10-K in the next few weeks.

有關可能導致業績發生重大變化的因素的更多資​​訊包含在 Forestar 的 10-K 表格年度報告和 10-Q 表格最新季度報告中，這兩份報告均已向美國證券交易委員會提交。我們的收益發布可在我們的網站 Investor.forestar.com 上獲取，我們計劃在未來幾週內提交 10-K。

After this call, we will post an updated investor presentation to our Investor Relations site under Events & Presentations for your reference. Now I will turn the call over to Andy Oxley, our President and CEO.

此次電話會議後，我們將在投資者關係網站的「活動和簡報」下發布更新的投資者簡報，供您參考。現在我將把電話轉給我們的總裁兼執行長安迪‧奧克斯利 (Andy Oxley)。

Thanks, Katie. Good morning, everyone. I'm also joined on the call today by Jim Allen, our Chief Financial Officer; and Mark Walker, our Chief Operating Officer. As always, we appreciate your interest in Forestar and taking the time to discuss our fourth quarter and fiscal year results. The Forestar team finished especially strong, delivering over 5,300 lots in the fourth quarter and more than 15,000 lots for the full fiscal year.

謝謝，凱蒂。大家早安。我們的財務長 Jim Allen 也參加了今天的電話會議。和我們的首席營運長馬克·沃克。一如既往，我們感謝您對 Forestar 的關注並抽出時間討論我們第四季度和財年的業績。Forestar 團隊表現特別強勁，第四季交付了 5,300 多件拍賣品，整個財年交付了 15,000 多件拍賣品。

Fiscal 2024 diluted earnings per share increased 20% to $4 and pretax income increased 22% to $270.1 million. Our return on equity improved 60 basis points to 13.8%, and our book value per share increased 15% from a year ago to $31.47. We improved our profitability and returns in fiscal 2024 despite extended cycle times and investing heavily in building our team and our platform for future growth.

2024 財年攤薄每股收益成長 20%，達到 4 美元，稅前收入成長 22%，達到 2.701 億美元。我們的股本回報率提高了 60 個基點，達到 13.8%，每股帳面價值比一年前增長了 15%，達到 31.47 美元。儘管週期時間延長，但我們在 2024 財年提高了獲利能力和回報，並大力投資建立我們的團隊和平台以實現未來成長。

Over the last five years, Forestar has invested approximately $6.7 billion in land acquisition and development and delivered over 70,000 finished lots to over 60 local, regional, and national homebuilders. Over the same time period, our returns on equity have nearly tripled and our book value per share increased 87%. These results reflect the strength of our business model and the market-leading teams we have built across our national footprint.

在過去五年中，Forestar 已投資約 67 億美元用於土地收購和開發，並向 60 多家地方、地區和國家住宅建築商交付了 70,000 多塊成品地塊。在同一時期，我們的股本回報率幾乎增加了兩倍，每股帳面價值增加了 87%。這些結果反映了我們業務模式的實力以及我們在全國範圍內建立的市場領先團隊。

Thank you to all of the Forestar team members for your efforts this year. In fiscal 2025, we will continue to execute our strategic plan by investing for future growth, turning our inventory, maximizing returns, and consolidating market share in the highly fragmented lot development industry. Forestar is well positioned, both financially and operationally to capitalize on builder demand for finished lots.

感謝Forestar團隊所有成員這一年的努力。2025 財年，我們將繼續執行我們的策略計劃，投資未來成長、週轉庫存、實現回報最大化，並鞏固高度分散的地塊開發行業的市場份額。Forestar 在財務和營運方面都處於有利地位，可以充分利用建築商對成品地塊的需求。

Jim will now discuss our fourth quarter and fiscal 2024 results in more detail.

Jim 現在將更詳細地討論我們第四季和 2024 財年的表現。

Thank you, Andy. In the fourth quarter, net income increased 13% to $81.6 million or $1.60 per diluted share. For the year, net income increased 22% to $203.4 million or $4 per diluted share. Revenues for the fourth quarter totalled $551.4 million, flat with the prior year quarter. The current quarter includes $23.4 million in tract sales and other revenues and $4.5 million in revenue from deferred development projects.

謝謝你，安迪。第四季淨利成長 13%，達到 8,160 萬美元，即稀釋後每股收益 1.60 美元。本年度淨利成長 22%，達到 2.034 億美元，即稀釋後每股收益 4 美元。第四季營收總計 5.514 億美元，與去年同期持平。本季包括 2340 萬美元的土地銷售和其他收入以及來自延期開發項目的 450 萬美元的收入。

Revenue totalled $1.5 billion in fiscal 2024, which includes $42 million of tract sales and other revenue and $8.1 million in revenue from deferred development projects. Lots sold during the quarter increased 8% to 5,374 lots. And for the year, lots sold increased 7% to 15,068 lots.

2024 財年收入總計 15 億美元，其中包括 4,200 萬美元的土地銷售和其他收入以及來自延期開發項目的 810 萬美元收入。本季售出的拍品增加了 8%，達到 5,374 件。今年售出拍品增加了 7%，達到 15,068 件。

Our average lot sales price for the quarter was $97,300 and was $96,600 for the year. We expect continued quarterly fluctuations in our average sales price based on the geographic location and lot seismic of our deliveries.

本季我們的平均批次銷售價格為 97,300 美元，全年為 96,600 美元。我們預計，根據我們交付的地理位置和地塊地震，我們的平均銷售價格將持續出現季度波動。

Mark?

標記？

Our gross profit margin this quarter was 23.9%, up 290 basis points from a year ago. Our gross profit margin was positively impacted by lot sales from an unusually high margin project. Gross profit margin for the year was 23.8%, up 260 basis points from the prior year.

本季我們的毛利率為23.9%，比去年同期成長290個基點。我們的毛利率受到異常高利潤項目的大量銷售的正面影響。全年毛利率為23.8%，較上年上升260個基點。

In fiscal 2024, gross margin was positively impacted by nonrecurring revenue items with unusually high margins, including selling excess sewer capacity and land contract assignment fees. During fiscal 2023, we recorded $19.4 million of noncash real estate impairment charges to cost of sales. Excluding the effects of those items, our full year gross profit margin would have been approximately 23% compared to 22.5% for fiscal 2023.

2024財年，毛利率受到利潤率異常高的非經常性收入項目的正面影響，包括出售多餘的下水道能力和土地合約轉讓費用。2023 財年，我們在銷售成本中記錄了 1,940 萬美元的非現金房地產減損費用。排除這些項目的影響，我們的全年毛利率約為 23%，而 2023 財年為 22.5%。

Our fourth quarter pretax income increased 14% to $108.5 million compared to $95.4 million in the prior year quarter and our pretax profit margin improved 230 basis points to 19.7%. Our pretax profit margin this quarter was positively impacted by a gain on sale of assets of $4.5 million. Pretax income for the year totalled $270.1 million compared to $221.6 million in fiscal 2023, and our pretax profit margin for the year improved 250 basis points to 17.9%.

我們第四季的稅前收入成長了 14%，達到 1.085 億美元，而去年同期為 9,540 萬美元，稅前利潤率提高了 230 個基點，達到 19.7%。本季我們的稅前利潤率受到 450 萬美元資產出售收益的正面影響。本年度稅前收入總計 2.701 億美元，而 2023 財年為 2.216 億美元，本年度稅前利潤率提高了 250 個基點，達到 17.9%。

Our pretax profit margin this year was positively impacted by a total gain on sale of assets of $9.5 million. Excluding the effects of the nonrecurring revenue items with unusually high margins and the gain on sale of assets, our full year pretax profit margin would have been approximately 16.5%.

我們今年的稅前利潤率受到資產出售總收益 950 萬美元的正面影響。剔除利潤率異常高的非經常性收入項目和資產出售收益的影響，我們全年稅前利潤率約為16.5%。

In the fourth quarter, SG&A expense increased 21% from the prior year quarter to $32 million. SG&A expense as a percentage of revenues was 5.8% compared to 4.8% in the prior year quarter. For the year, SG&A expense was $118.5 million or 7.9% as a percentage of revenues, up 110 basis points from 6.8% in the prior year.

第四季度，SG&A 費用較上年同期成長 21%，達到 3,200 萬美元。銷售及管理費用費用佔收入的百分比為 5.8%，去年同期為 4.8%。今年，SG&A 費用為 1.185 億美元，佔營收的比例為 7.9%，比上年的 6.8% 上升了 110 個基點。

Our employee count increased 30% from a year ago, which will support the continued expansion of our platform, including entering new markets and increasing community count. Roughly 80% of new hires in fiscal 2024 are in local market operations.

我們的員工人數比一年前增加了 30%，這將支持我們平台的持續擴張，包括進入新市場和增加社區數量。2024 財年約 80% 的新進員工從事本地市場業務。

We are pleased with the progress we have made building our team and our ability to attract high-quality talent. We remain focused on efficiently managing our SG&A while investing in our teams to support our continued growth.

我們對團隊建立所取得的進展以及吸引高素質人才的能力感到高興。我們仍然專注於有效管理我們的銷售、管理和行政費用，同時投資我們的團隊以支持我們的持續成長。

The supply of new and existing homes at affordable price points remains generally limited and demographic supporting housing demand remained favourable despite elevated mortgage interest rates and inflationary pressures. Mortgage rate buydown incentives offered by builders combined with low resale supply relative to the historical norms continue to be a driver of buyers choosing new construction.

儘管抵押貸款利率上升和通膨壓力較大，但價格實惠的新房和現房供應普遍有限，人口支持的住房需求仍然有利。建商提供的抵押貸款利率購買激勵措施，加上相對於歷史標準的低轉售供應量，仍然是買家選擇新建築的推動力。

Our ongoing focus is to develop lots for homes at affordable price points. Availability of contractors and necessary materials has improved over the past several months but we have not seen overall reductions in the cost of developing land. While we have started to see some improvement in cycle times, governmental delays continue to extend cycle times above historical norms.

我們持續的重點是以實惠的價格開發住宅用地。過去幾個月，承包商和必要材料的供應情況有所改善，但我們並沒有看到開發土地成本的整體下降。雖然我們已經開始看到週期時間有所改善，但政府的拖延繼續將週期時間延長到歷史正常水平以上。

We utilize best management practices and work with our trade partners to develop lots in the most efficient way possible. Homebuilders are competing to secure land and lot positions and many are looking to replace current closeout communities to position themselves for future growth. As a result, we have not seen any softening in land prices. However, our team remains disciplined, flexible, and opportunistic when pursuing new land acquisition opportunities. Jim?

我們利用最佳管理實踐，並與我們的貿易夥伴合作，以最有效的方式開發批次。住宅建築商正在競相爭奪土地和地塊位置，許多建築商正在尋求取代當前的清倉社區，為未來的成長做好準備。因此，我們沒有看到土地價格出現任何疲軟。然而，我們的團隊在尋求新的土地收購機會時仍然保持紀律、靈活性和機會主義。吉姆？

D.R. Horton is our largest and most important customer, 16% of the homes D.R. Horton started this year were on a Forestar developed lot. With a mutually stated goal of one out of every three homes D.R. Horton [sells] to be on a lot developed by Forestar. We have a significant opportunity to grow our market share within D.R. Horton. We also continue to work on expanding our relationships with other homebuilders. We sold 1,801 lots or 12% of our deliveries to more than 20 other customers in fiscal 2024.

博士Horton 是我們最大、最重要的客戶，16% 的房屋 D.R.霍頓今年開始在Forestar開發的土地上進行開發。雙方共同訂定的目標是每三個家庭就有一個 D.R.霍頓（Horton）[出售]Forestar 開發的土地。我們有很大的機會擴大 D.R. 的市場佔有率。霍頓。我們也繼續努力擴大與其他住宅建築商的關係。2024 財年，我們向 20 多家其他客戶出售了 1,801 批貨物，占我們交付量的 12%。

Forestar's underwriting criteria for new development projects remains unchanged at a minimum 15% pretax return on average inventory and a return of our initial cash investment within 36 months. During the fourth quarter, we invested approximately $450 million in land and land development, of which $320 million with (technical difficulty) development and $130 million was for land.

Forestar 對新開發案的核保標準保持不變，即平均庫存稅前回報率至少為 15%，並且在 36 個月內收回我們的初始現金投資。第四季度，我們在土地和土地開發方面投資了約4.5億美元，其中3.2億美元用於（技術難度）開發，1.3億美元用於土地。

For the full year, we invested approximately $1.6 billion in land and land development, of which 65% was for land development and 35% was for land. In fiscal 2025, we currently expect to invest approximately $2 billion in land acquisition and development. Mark?

全年我們在土地和土地開發方面投入約16億美元，其中65%用於土地開發，35%用於土地。到 2025 財年，我們目前預計將投資約 20 億美元用於土地收購和開發。標記？

Our lot position at September 30 was 95,100 lots, of which 57,800 or 61% are owned and 37,300 or 39% are controlled through purchase contracts. 6,300 of our own lots are finished. Consistent with our focus on capital efficiency, we target owning a three to four year supply of land and lots and manage our development in phases to deliver lots at a pace that matches market demand.

截至 9 月 30 日，我們的持倉量為 95,100 手，其中 57,800 手（即 61%）是我們擁有的，37,300 手（即 39%）是透過購買合約控制的。我們自己的 6,300 塊地已完工。與我們對資本效率的關註一致，我們的目標是擁有三到四年的土地和地塊供應，並分階段管理我們的開發，以符合市場需求的速度交付地塊。

Owned lots in our contract to sell increased 40% compared to a year ago to 21,000 lots or 36% of our own lot position. $172 million of hard (technical difficulty) money deposits secured these contracts, which are expected to generate approximately $1.9 billion of future revenue. Another 30% of our own lots are subject to a right of first offer to D.R. Horton based on executed purchase and sale agreements. Jim?

我們的待售合約中的自有地塊比一年前增加了 40%，達到 21,000 塊，占我們自有地塊頭寸的 36%。這些合約獲得了 1.72 億美元的硬（技術難度）存款，預計未來將產生約 19 億美元的收入。我們自己的另外 30% 的土地享有 D.R. 的優先報價權。霍頓基於已執行的購買和銷售協議。吉姆？

We have significant liquidity and are using modest leverage to keep our balance sheet strong. We ended the quarter with approximately $860 million of liquidity, including an unrestricted cash balance of $480 million and $380 million of available capacity on our undrawn revolving credit facility. .

我們擁有大量流動性，並正在使用適度的槓桿來保持資產負債表的強勁。截至本季末，我們的流動資金約為 8.6 億美元，其中包括 4.8 億美元的無限現金餘額和未提取的循環信貸額度的 3.8 億美元可用容量。。

Total debt at September 30 was $706 million with no senior note maturities until fiscal 2026, and our net debt-to-capital ratio was 12.4%. We ended the quarter with $1.6 billion of stockholders' equity, and our book value per share increased 15% from a year ago to $31.47.

截至 9 月 30 日的總負債為 7.06 億美元，在 2026 財年之前沒有優先票據到期，我們的淨負債與資本比率為 12.4%。本季結束時，我們的股東權益為 16 億美元，每股帳面價值較上年同期成長 15%，達到 31.47 美元。

Forestar's capital structure is one of our biggest competitive advantages, and it sets us apart from other land developers. Project level land acquisition and development loans are less available today and have continued to become more expensive, which impacts the majority of our competitors.

Forestar 的資本結構是我們最大的競爭優勢之一，它使我們有別於其他土地開發商。如今，專案級土地徵用和開發貸款越來越少，而且越來越昂貴，這影響了我們的大多數競爭對手。

Other developers generally use project-level development loans, which are typically more restrictive at floating rates and create administrative complexity, particularly in an elevated interest rate environment. Our capital structure provides us with operational flexibility, while our strong liquidity positions us to take advantage of attractive opportunities when they arise.

其他開發商通常使用專案級開發貸款，這些貸款通常在浮動利率上受到更多限制，並造成管理複雜性，特別是在利率升高的環境下。我們的資本結構為我們提供了營運靈活性，而強大的流動性使我們能夠在有吸引力的機會出現時抓住它們。

Andy, I'll now turn it back to you for closing remarks.

安迪，我現在將其轉回給您進行結束語。

Thanks, Jim. Thank you to the Forestar team for delivering a record year of profitability. Fiscal 2024 was also a year of building for the future. We grew the size of our team by 30% and deepened our bench of local market leaders. We are pleased that over 50% of those leaders were internal promotions.

謝謝，吉姆。感謝 Forestar 團隊創造了創紀錄的獲利能力。2024 財年也是建構未來的一年。我們的團隊規模擴大了 30%，並加深了本地市場領導者的陣容。我們很高興看到超過 50% 的領導者是內部晉升的。

We increased our investment in land acquisition and development by 65% year-over-year, and we further diversified our geographic footprint by entering Virginia and re-entering Washington, Oregon, and Utah.

我們對土地收購和開發的投資年增了 65%，並透過進入維吉尼亞州並重新進入華盛頓州、俄勒岡州和猶他州，進一步實現地理足跡多元化。

These investments in our people and platform have positioned Forestar to grow faster than the market. However, there are still challenges in the entitlement and permitting processes resulting in lengthening development time lines.

這些對我們的人員和平台的投資使 Forestar 的成長速度快於市場。然而，權利和許可流程仍然存在挑戰，導致開發時間延長。

As we look forward to fiscal 2025, based on current market conditions, we expect to deliver between 16,000 and 16,500 lots and to generate $1.6 billion to $1.65 billion of revenue. We currently expect our first quarter will be our lowest delivery quarter of the year, and we expect our revenues in the second half of the year of fiscal 25 to be higher than the first half. The variability we experienced throughout fiscal 24 illustrates the quarter-to-quarter fluctuations that can occur in the delivery of finished lots.

展望 2025 財年，根據當前市場狀況，我們預計將交付 16,000 至 16,500 件拍品，並產生 16 億至 16.5 億美元的收入。我們目前預計第一季將是我們今年交付量最低的季度，我們預計 25 財年下半年的營收將高於上半年。我們在 24 財年經歷的變化說明了成品批次交付中可能出現的季度波動。

We are closely monitoring each market as we strive to balance pace and price to maximize returns for each project. We are the market leader in a highly fragmented and undercapitalized industry. and are uniquely positioned to take advantage of builder demand for finished lots.

我們正在密切關注每個市場，努力平衡節奏和價格，以最大限度地提高每個項目的回報。我們是高度分散且資本不足的產業的市場領導者。並具有獨特的優勢，可以利用建築商對成品地塊的需求。

Our goal remains the same: to double our market share to 5% over the intermediate term. We expect to aggregate significant market share over the next few years, while maintaining our disciplined approach with investing capital to enhance the long-term value of Forestar. With a clear strategic direction, a dedicated team, and a strong operational and financial foundation in place, I'm excited about Forestar's future.

我們的目標保持不變：在中期內將我們的市佔率翻倍至 5%。我們預計在未來幾年內將佔據重要的市場份額，同時保持我們嚴格的投資資本方法，以提高 Forestar 的長期價值。憑藉著明確的策略方向、敬業的團隊以及強大的營運和財務基礎，我對 Forestar 的未來感到興奮。

Jenny, at this time, we'll open the line for questions.

珍妮，這個時候，我們將開通提問熱線。

(Operator Instructions) Carl Reichardt, BTIG.

（操作員說明）Carl Reichardt，BTIG。

I have a couple here. One is, as you look at your '25 guide, is your expectation that the percentage of lots you actually deliver to customers other than D.R. Horton going to grow in '25?

我這裡有一對。一是，當您查看 '25 指南時，您期望實際交付給 D.R. 以外客戶的批次百分比。霍頓會在25年成長嗎？

Not really. We really do expect to stay at around 85% to 90% of our lots going to Horton over the near term as we look to increase our market share within D.R. Horton. Until we get closer to delivering about 30% of their lot needs, I think that will stay in that 85% to 90% range.

並不真地。我們確實預計短期內將有 85% 至 90% 的拍品流向霍頓，因為我們希望增加在 D.R. 的市佔率。霍頓。在我們接近滿足他們大約 30% 的批次需求之前，我認為這一比例將保持在 85% 到 90% 的範圍內。

Okay. Great. And then, Mark, if you or anyone wants to put a few numbers around this idea of cycle times. So I sort of understand them for the vertical side of home construction. But for land development, if we break it out into, say, the beginning of lot acquisition to starting grading and then grading to finished lot, and I know it varies a lot.

好的。偉大的。然後，馬克，如果你或任何人想用一些數字來說明循環時間的想法。所以我對它們的理解是住宅建築的垂直方向。但對於土地開發來說，如果我們把它分解為，比如說，土地收購開始到開始放坡，然後放坡到完工地塊，我知道它的變化很大。

How long is it taking to do both of those elements on average? And then what is the difference today versus, say, what it was four or five years ago as the market has changed?

完成這兩個要素平均需要多久？那麼，隨著市場的變化，今天的情況與四、五年前的情況有何不同？

Yes, Carl, I'll give you a couple of those questions. So from rating, basically, that typically takes about 120 days. And that depends again on the project in the market. That can change with geography up north, not west. But typically, I'd say it's 120 days.

是的，卡爾，我會問你幾個問題。因此，從評級來看，基本上通常需要大約 120 天。這又取決於市場上的項目。這可能會隨著北方而不是西方的地理位置而改變。但通常情況下，我會說是 120 天。

A historical cycle time has been about 12 months, I would say four or five years ago, it could have even been maybe nine months, but that has grown over the years. (technical difficulty) get challenged today is really just government approvals and that time line has elongated.

歷史週期時間約 12 個月，我想說四、五年前，甚至可能是 9 個月，但多年來這個週期一直在成長。 （技術難度）今天受到的挑戰實際上只是政府的批准，而且時間線已經拉長了。

It would typically take you about 30 days to get a final(technical difficulty) reported for the lot basically substantially complete and approved by jurisdiction. Today, that's ranging anywhere from 30 to 180 days depending on geography.

您通常需要大約 30 天的時間才能獲得該批次的最終（技術難度）報告，該報告基本上已基本完成並獲得司法管轄區的批准。如今，根據地理位置的不同，該時間範圍從 30 到 180 天不等。

So that's our biggest challenge. I can say our cycle times were reduced over the past 60 days by -- I'm sorry, over the past quarter by 60 days. So that's a lot of progress we're making. And then they're off or they're down about 90 days off of our peak. So 60 days improvement over the quarter and 90-day improvement over the peak.

所以這是我們最大的挑戰。我可以說，我們的周期時間在過去 60 天裡減少了——抱歉，在過去一個季度減少了 60 天。所以這是我們正在取得的巨大進展。然後他們就離開了，或者說他們比我們的高峰晚了大約 90 天。因此，比本季改善了 60 天，比高峰改善了 90 天。

Great. That is very helpful. Those specifics. And then last if I can ask just one more. When you think about your relative pricing power now today, compared to right after COVID, do you think it's changed meaningfully one way or the other? .

偉大的。這非常有幫助。那些細節。最後我能否再問一個問題。當你思考你今天的相對定價能力時，與新冠疫情之後相比，你認為它是否以某種方式發生了有意義的變化？。

I would say that we have seen improvement, not necessarily on the hard costs, but on vendor availability, trades looking for work.

我想說的是，我們已經看到了進步，不一定是在硬成本方面，而是在供應商可用性、尋找工作的行業方面。

Carl, did you mean on the development cost side or on the (technical difficulty)

卡爾，你的意思是在開發成本還是在（技術難度）

Well, actually, I meant pricing to customers really as you sort of think about it, but sure, the cost side, too, would be helpful. Then I guess at the end of the day, it really comes down to net.

嗯，實際上，我的意思是向客戶定價，就像你考慮的那樣，但當然，成本方面也會有幫助。然後我想最終，它真的歸結為網路。

Yes. Our relative price in terms of our lot price to unbilled ASP has remained pretty constant, I would say, over the past several years. That range is somewhere around, let's call it, 25% that can fluctuate up or down based off a geography. But typically, that lot of home ratio is somewhere in the mid to high 20s. Historically, it used to be in the low to mid-20s.

是的。我想說，在過去的幾年裡，我們的批次價格與未開票平均售價的相對價格保持相當穩定。這個範圍大約是 25% 左右，可以根據地理位置上下波動。但通常情況下，該批次房屋比率在 20 多歲左右。從歷史上看，它曾經是20多歲左右。

Anthony Pettinari, Citigroup.

安東尼佩蒂納裡，花旗集團。

This is Asher Sohnen on for Anthony. Just maybe as you think about your development pipeline for 2025, are there any markets you would call out as maybe a little bit oversupplied right now or any other markets where you may be pulling back from in terms of new land acquisition. I think there's a lot of attention on Florida and Texas right now.

我是阿舍爾·索南 (Asher Sohnen) 替補安東尼。也許當您考慮 2025 年的開發計劃時，您是否會指出目前可能有點供過於求的市場，或者您可能會在新土地收購方面退出的任何其他市場。我認為現在佛羅裡達州和德克薩斯州受到了很多關注。

Not really. I mean, in affordable price points, we're not seeing any buildup in inventory. Our customer demand is pretty robust across the whole country. So we're not really calling out any caution in any parts of -- in the parts of the country right now.

並不真地。我的意思是，在可負擔的價格點上，我們沒有看到庫存增加。我們的客戶需求在全國範圍內都非常強勁。因此，我們現在並沒有真正在該國的任何地區發出任何警告。

Obviously, the hurricanes had a little bit of impact. We were fortunate that we didn't have any of our family members affected, but certainly, our hearts go out to those communities that were affected.

顯然，颶風造成了一些影響。我們很幸運，沒有任何家庭成員受到影響，但當然，我們的心與那些受到影響的社區同在。

Yes. And then switching gears, do you kind of have a sense of an updated time line for maybe for deconsolidation. I think I noticed you guys had a shelf filings. I don't know if that kind of accelerates it at all. And last, I think you previously talked about like the ability to continue growing the business pretty significantly without having to dip into the capital markets. I'm just wondering if that's still the case?

是的。然後換個角度，你是否有一種更新的時間線的感覺，也許是為了分拆。我想我注意到你們有貨架文件。我不知道這是否會加速它。最後，我想您之前談到過無需涉足資本市場即可繼續顯著發展業務的能力。我只是想知道情況是否仍然如此？

As far as deconsolidation, that's really a question for D.R. Horton. That's not really something that is under our control. As far as our ability to continue to grow, absolutely, and that's our plan. We do have the ability to continue to grow with our existing balance sheet. However, we do plan to continue to add debt to our capital stack as our equity balance allows that and allows us to continue to manage our debt to -- our net debt to total capital at a ratio of 40% or less.

至於拆分，這確實是 D.R. 的一個問題。霍頓。這其實並不是我們可以控制的事情。就我們繼續成長的能力而言，絕對是這樣，這就是我們的計劃。我們確實有能力利用現有的資產負債表繼續成長。然而，我們確實計劃繼續在我們的資本結構中增加債務，因為我們的股本餘額允許這樣做，並允許我們繼續管理我們的債務——我們的淨債務與總資本的比率為 40% 或更低。

So we would continue to look to finance growth. Fortunately, our liquidity position allows us to be opportunistic when we do access the capital markets. We ended the year with $860 million of total liquidity. So obviously, that will go a long way to help finance our growth into fiscal 25 and beyond.

因此，我們將繼續尋求為成長提供融資。幸運的是，我們的流動性狀況使我們能夠在進入資本市場時抓住機會。截至年底，我們的流動資金總額為 8.6 億美元。顯然，這將大大有助於為我們 25 財年及以後的成長提供資金。

The shelf too, that was just more of a housekeeping item. Our old shelf expired early October. And so we just renewed the shelf with exactly what we had filed previously.

架子也是如此，那隻是更多的家務用品。我們的舊貨架十月初就過期了。因此，我們只是用我們之前提交的內容更新了貨架。

Trevor Allinson, Wolfe Research.

特雷弗·阿林森，沃爾夫研究中心。

First one is on land prices. You mentioned in your prepared remarks, you're not really seeing a softening on pricing. From a new home demand perspective, there's been a few geographies consistently noted as weaker.

第一個是土地價格。您在準備好的發言中提到，您並沒有真正看到定價軟化。從新房需求的角度來看，有一些地區一直被認為較弱。

Colorado comes to mind also some markets in Texas and Florida. In those markets specifically, the ones that have been softer, have you seen a flattening out of land prices in those markets? Or are you seeing any more favourable terms?

我想到的還有科羅拉多州和德克薩斯州和佛羅裡達州的一些市場。特別是在那些較為疲軟的市場中，您是否看到這些市場的土地價格趨於平緩？或者您看到任何更優惠的條件？

No. Land prices continue to grow low to mid-single digits year-over-year, similar to the development cost from a land pricing perspective. So specifically across the United States and specifically in those markets is consistent.

不。土地價格持續年增低至中個位數，與土地定價角度的開發成本類似。因此，特別是在美國各地，特別是在這些市場中，情況是一致的。

Okay. Got you. And then, Katie, I think you mentioned still focusing on being the key supplier to Horton until you guys approach your 30% target you guys have talked about for a while before you start expanding more with other builders. As you think about your long-term plans, what's a reasonable amount of time for you guys to get to 30% of their lot needs?

好的。明白你了。然後，凱蒂，我想你提到仍然專注於成為霍頓的主要供應商，直到你們達到你們已經討論了一段時間的 30% 目標，然後再開始與其他建築商進行更多擴張。在考慮您的長期計劃時，您需要多少時間才能滿足 30% 的批次需求？

Well, I mean there's a couple of different puts and takes in that. One of them is the rate of growth that Horton chooses to grow at. They're obviously growing off of a much larger number. And so us growing more than 10% is really just us trying to keep up with their lot needs. So it's hard to say. We would hope that we'd be able to five years or so, we think that, that would be a good target for us to be able to sell 30% of our lots other customers.

嗯，我的意思是有幾個不同的投入和接受。其中之一是霍頓選擇的成長速度。顯然，他們的數量正在增長。因此，我們的成長超過 10% 實際上只是我們試圖滿足他們的大量需求。所以很難說。我們希望能夠在五年左右的時間裡，我們認為，這對我們來說是一個很好的目標，能夠向其他客戶出售 30% 的產品。

And it will be a stair-step approach. It's not going to be something that happens overnight. But I do think that it's important that the number of lots that we sell to other builders is going to continue to increase year-over-year. We sold to eight new customers this year that we had not sold to in the past. And so we really are focused on growing and expanding those relationships with other customers.

這將是一個階梯式的方法。這不會是一夜之間發生的事。但我確實認為，重要的是我們出售給其他建築商的土地數量將繼續逐年增加。今年我們向八個新客戶出售了過去沒有出售過的產品。因此，我們確實專注於發展和擴大與其他客戶的關係。

And we're also focused on expanding and growing our market share in our current markets as well. So there's significant opportunity to aggregate market share, not only within Horton. I think today, we're at 16% trying to get to the third as well as other builders as getting said.

我們也致力於擴大和增加我們在當前市場的市場份額。因此，這裡有巨大的機會來聚集市場份額，而不僅僅是在霍頓內部。我想今天，我們有 16% 的人試圖達到第三名，就像其他建造者所說的那樣。

I think we added a good number of builders this fiscal year as well. We continue to work on these relationships a year in and year out. It takes a little bit of time to continue to grow those, which we have.

我認為本財年我們也增加了大量建築商。我們年復一年地繼續致力於這些關係。我們需要一點時間來繼續種植這些。

Yes, makes sense. That's very helpful color. And then just maybe a quick housekeeping question. you mentioned the 4Q margin benefited from some unusually high margin projects. Any help on what kind of impact that had to gross margin in the quarter?

是的，有道理。這是非常有用的顏色。然後也許只是一個簡單的內務問題。您提到第四季度的利潤率受益於一些利潤率異常高的項目。對本季毛利率有何影響有什麼幫助嗎？

We're not going to disclose the exact amount. I would say that margin would have been approximately [20]

我們不會透露確切的金額。我想說，利潤大約是[20]

Yes. We -- what we can say, though, we underwrite to return. So margin is going to fluctuate or vary from quarter-to-quarter, and we do see that. But over the long term, [and] over the last 8 to 10 quarters or so, we've seen our normalized margin, and we adjust for onetime items or kind of unusually high margin projects. But we've seen that kind of between the 21.5% and 23% range very consistently. And I think that's kind of more where we feel like our normalized margin is.

是的。不過，我們可以說的是，我們承諾退貨。因此，利潤率會隨著季度的變化而波動，我們確實看到了這一點。但從長遠來看，[並且]在過去 8 到 10 個季度左右的時間裡，我們已經看到了正常化的利潤率，並且我們針對一次性項目或異常高利潤的項目進行了調整。但我們已經看到這種 21.5% 到 23% 的範圍非常一致。我認為這更像是我們感覺正常化利潤率的情況。

Alex Barron, Housing Research Center

亞歷克斯·巴倫，住房研究中心

I guess my main question was, what's the general constraint to growth? Because as I look at the -- for example, the number of lots under contract with D.R. Horton has gone from 14,400 to 20,500 this year or year-over-year, yet the -- I guess the guidance is going up from 15,000 last year to about 16,000 this year. So what's the kind of constraint to growing faster in general terms?

我想我的主要問題是，成長的一般限制是什麼？因為當我看到——例如，與 D.R. 簽訂合約的地塊數量。霍頓今年或同比已從 14,400 人增加到 20,500 人，但我猜指導人數將從去年的 15,000 人增加到今年的約 16,000 人。那麼，一般來說，什麼樣的限制因素會阻礙更快的成長呢？

It's just hard to put a lot on the ground. I mean it takes a long time from the time that you identify the track, get it under contract, get it entitled and then take it through the approval process and finally get it developed and finished. So o our investment was less a couple of years ago. And so that caused our overall number of available lots to go down.

只是很難把很多東西放在地上。我的意思是，從確定曲目、簽訂合約、獲得授權，然後通過審批流程，最後開發並完成，需要很長時間。所以幾年前我們的投資較少。這導致我們的可用地塊總數下降。

We reversed that and have been growing that throughout '24 and we'll continue in '25 but you really won't see the results of that until late '25 and going into '26. So it's a quarter-over-quarter building process and you just have to stay very disciplined and focus on what you can affect that quarter in building the business.

我們扭轉了這一局面，並在整個 24 年一直在成長，我們將在 25 年繼續，但直到 25 年末和進入 26 年你才會看到結果。因此，這是一個季度環比的建設過程，您只需保持非常自律，並專注於您可以影響該季度業務建設的因素。

What is the range of time frames in developing lots from the time you guys acquired them in different markets? Like what's the shortest time frame and what's the longest in market?

從你們在不同市場購買土地開始，開發土地的時間範圍是多少？例如市場上最短的時間範圍和最長的時間範圍是多少？

Yes, very is market to market, but it can range anywhere from six months up to 24 months. It really depends on the actual projects specific site conditions as well as that government jurisdiction. A lot of it has to do with the landscape and geographies, (technical difficulty) conditions, but it varies from market to market and geographies.

是的，這取決於市場情況，但期限可以從 6 個月到 24 個月不等。這實際上取決於實際項目的特定場地條件以及政府管轄權。這在很大程度上與景觀和地理位置（技術難度）條件有關，但它因市場和地理位置而異。

Thank you very much. Well, we appear to have reached the end of our question-and-answer session. I will now turn the call over to Andy Oxley, the CEO for Forestar for closing remarks. .

非常感謝。好吧，我們的問答環節似乎已經結束了。現在我將把電話轉給 Forestar 執行長 Andy Oxley 致閉幕詞。。

Thank you, Jenny, and thank you to everyone on the Forestar team for your focus and hard work. As we enter fiscal 2025, continue to stay disciplined, flexible, and opportunistic, while focusing on consolidating market share. We appreciate everyone's time on the call today and look forward to speaking with you again in January to share our first quarter results.

謝謝你，Jenny，也感謝 Forestar 團隊中每個人的專注和辛勤工作。進入 2025 財年，我們將繼續保持紀律、靈活和機會主義，同時專注於鞏固市場份額。我們感謝大家今天抽出時間參加電話會議，並期待在一月份再次與您交談，分享我們第一季的業績。

Thank you very much. This does conclude today's conference. You may now disconnect your phone lines at this time, and have a wonderful day. Thank you for your participation.

非常感謝。今天的會議到此結束。您現在可以斷開電話線，度過美好的一天。感謝您的參與。