Finance of America Companies Inc (FOA) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Hello, and welcome to the Finance of America third-quarter 2024 earnings call. (Operator Instructions)

您好，歡迎參加美國金融 2024 年第三季財報電話會議。（操作員說明）

I would now like to turn the conference over to Michael Fant, Senior Vice President of Finance. You may begin.

現在我想將會議交給財務高級副總裁 Michael Fant。你可以開始了。

Thank you, and good afternoon everyone, and welcome to Finance of America's third-quarter 2024 earnings call. With me today are Graham Fleming, Chief Executive Officer; Kristen Sieffert, President; and Matt Engel, Chief Financial Officer. As a reminder, this call is being recorded, and you can find the earnings release and presentation on our Investor Relations website at www.financeofamericacompanies.com.

謝謝大家，大家下午好，歡迎參加《美國金融》2024 年第三季財報電話會議。今天與我在一起的有執行長 Graham Fleming；克莉絲汀·西弗特，總裁；和財務長馬特·恩格爾。謹此提醒，本次電話會議正在錄音，您可以在我們的投資者關係網站 www.financeofamericacompanies.com 上找到收益發布和簡報。

In addition, we will refer to certain non-GAAP financial measures on this call. You can find reconciliations of non-GAAP to GAAP financial measures discussed on today's call in our earnings press release and presentation on the Investor Relations page of our website to the extent available without unreasonable efforts.

此外，我們將在本次電話會議上提及某些非公認會計準則財務指標。您可以在我們網站的投資者關係頁面上的收益新聞稿和演示文稿中找到今天電話會議中討論的非公認會計原則與公認會計原則財務指標的調節表，而無需做出不合理的努力。

Also, I would like to remind everyone that comments on this conference call may be forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995 regarding the company's expected operating and financial performance for future periods. These statements are based on the company's current expectations and are subject to the Safe Harbor statement for forward-looking statements that you will find in today's earnings release.

另外，我想提醒大家，本次電話會議的評論可能是 1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》含義內的有關公司未來時期預期運營和財務業績的前瞻性陳述。這些陳述基於公司目前的預期，並受前瞻性陳述安全港聲明的約束，您將在今天的收益發布中找到這些前瞻性陳述。

Actual results for future periods may differ materially from those expressed or implied by these forward-looking statements due to a number of risks or other factors, including those that are described in the Risk Factors section of Finance of America's annual report on Form 10-K for the year ended December 31, 2023, filed with the SEC on March 15, 2024.

由於多種風險或其他因素，包括美國金融公司 10-K 表格年度報告的風險因素部分中所述的風險或其他因素，未來期間的實際結果可能與這些前瞻性陳述明示或暗示的結果存在重大差異截至2023年12月31日的年度，於2024年3月15日向美國證券交易委員會提交。

As such, risk factors may be amended and updated in our subsequent filings with the SEC. We are not undertaking any commitment to update these statements if conditions change. Please note that we will be discussing interim period financials for our continuing operations, which are unaudited.

因此，風險因素可能會在我們隨後向 SEC 提交的文件中進行修改和更新。我們不承諾在情況改變時更新這些聲明。請注意，我們將討論我們持續經營業務的中期財務狀況，這些財務狀況未經審計。

Now I would like to turn the call over to Finance of America's Chief Executive Officer, Graham Fleming. Graham?

現在我想將電話轉給美國金融執行長格雷厄姆·弗萊明。格雷厄姆？

Thank you, Michael. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. Our performance this quarter is the culmination of a number of strategic and operational initiatives we've undertaken over the last year to strengthen the business. These efforts are now paying off as we focus on continued execution of our strategic plan.

謝謝你，麥可。大家下午好，感謝您今天加入我們。我們本季的業績是我們去年為加強業務而採取的一系列策略和營運措施的結晶。隨著我們專注於繼續執行我們的策略計劃，這些努力現在正在取得回報。

Finance of America generated improved financial results with $204 million in net income or $8.48 in basic earnings per share, $15 million in adjusted net income or $0.67 in adjusted earnings per share and $32 million of adjusted EBITDA.

美國金融公司的財務表現有所改善，淨利潤為2.04 億美元，即每股基本收益8.48 美元，調整後淨利潤為1500 萬美元，即調整後每股收益0.67 美元，調整後EBITDA 為3200 萬美元。

Our performance in Q3 brought our net income, adjusted net income, and adjusted EBITDA all positive on a year-to-date basis. Volume in the quarter reached $513 million, exceeded the high end of our guidance range of $475 million to $500 million. This demonstrates our ability to execute on our strategic initiatives and continue delivering value to our customers.

我們第三季的業績使我們的淨利潤、調整後淨利潤和調整後 EBITDA 年初至今均為正值。該季度的銷售額達到 5.13 億美元，超出了我們指導範圍 4.75 億至 5 億美元的上限。這表明我們有能力執行戰略計劃並繼續為客戶提供價值。

Notably, during the quarter, we completed a reverse stock split and finalized the exchange offer and consent solicitation of our 2025 unsecured notes, which significantly enhances our balance sheet and financial flexibility of the business. This exchange was completed on October 31, and we look forward to continuing our partnership with our noteholders.

值得注意的是，在本季度，我們完成了反向股票分割，並完成了 2025 年無擔保票據的交換要約和同意徵求，這顯著增強了我們業務的資產負債表和財務靈活性。此次交換已於 10 月 31 日完成，我們期待繼續與票據持有人的合作夥伴關係。

Overall, we are executing and delivering on everything we set out to do. Our team has been focused and the results speak for themselves. Our continued momentum and improved profitability, driven by strong execution across the board have positioned us for sustained growth and success. With approximately $14 trillion of home equity held by older homeowners, we are uniquely positioned to meet the evolving financial needs of this growing demographic through our innovative home equity-based retirement products.

總體而言，我們正在執行並交付我們計劃要做的一切。我們的團隊一直專注，結果不言而喻。在全面強有力的執行力的推動下，我們持續的發展勢頭和不斷提高的盈利能力使我們能夠實現持續增長和成功。老年房主持有約 14 兆美元的房屋淨值，我們具有獨特的優勢，可以透過我們基於房屋淨值的創新退休產品來滿足這一不斷增長的人口不斷變化的財務需求。

We are focusing on market segments where we see the most growth potential, such as consumers 55 and older seeking second lien mortgage loans as a way to access their home equity without refinancing away from low-rate conventional mortgages. Our HomeSafe Second product could be a valuable solution for this population.

我們專注於我們認為最具成長潛力的細分市場，例如55 歲及以上的消費者尋求第二留置權抵押貸款，作為獲得房屋淨值的一種方式，而無需從低利率傳統抵押貸款中進行再融資。我們的 HomeSafe Second 產品可能是針對這一人群的有價值的解決方案。

To discuss this opportunity and more, I'll turn it over to Kristen. Kristen?

為了討論這個機會及更多內容，我將把它交給克里斯汀。克里斯汀？

Thank you, Graham, and good afternoon, everyone. In the second quarter, we talked about our significant progress in transforming operations through a consolidated platform and improved efficiency. We focused on the unification of the Finance of America Reverse and AAG brands under the single name of Finance of America as well as the streamlining of our workflows and adjustments to our sales processes.

謝謝格雷厄姆，大家下午好。在第二季度，我們談到了透過整合平台和提高效率在營運轉型方面取得的重大進展。我們專注於將 Finance of America Reverse 和 AAG 品牌統一為 Finance of America，以及簡化我們的工作流程並調整我們的銷售流程。

I'm pleased to share that our third quarter results indicate that these ROI maximization initiatives are having the intended impact. We surpassed our volume expectations and continued optimizing operations while staying dedicated to enhancing the customer experience and expanding our market presence. Our retail channel saw a 38% productivity improvement measured by fundings per loan officer compared to the prior quarter.

我很高興與大家分享，我們第三季的業績顯示這些投資報酬率最大化措施正在產生預期的影響。我們超越了我們的銷售預期，並繼續優化營運，同時致力於增強客戶體驗並擴大我們的市場份額。與上一季相比，以每位信貸員的資金衡量，我們的零售通路的生產力提高了 38%。

Additionally, October experienced our largest submission and funding month of 2024. The consolidation of our brand in July was highly successful, marking a critical milestone. Being unified under one brand sets the stage for modernizing our approach to customer experience and acquisition. Developing a digital-first channel with a modern advertising strategy is vital for mainstreaming our products and enhancing production efficiency.

此外，10 月經歷了 2024 年最大的提交和資助月份。七月我們的品牌整合非常成功，標誌著一個重要的里程碑。統一在一個品牌下，為我們的客戶體驗和客戶獲取方法現代化奠定了基礎。採用現代廣告策略開發數位優先管道對於使我們的產品主流化和提高生產效率至關重要。

This means building a channel to supplement our existing lines of business that prioritizes online experiences over traditional methods and leverages automated digital tools to improve efficiency and the overall ease of transacting.

這意味著建立一個管道來補充我們現有的業務線，優先考慮線上體驗而不是傳統方法，並利用自動化數位工具來提高效率和整體交易便利性。

We believe this will result in materially lower cost of origination and an overall better customer experience. Our digital innovation strategy is designed to deliver financial services to seniors in a way that is both modern and user-friendly. We launched a new HomeSafe Second focused digital marketing campaign at quarter end to identify strategies that attract new customers and are in the process of building out a dedicated team to support these efforts.

我們相信這將大大降低原始成本並帶來更好的整體客戶體驗。我們的數位創新策略旨在以現代且用戶友好的方式為老年人提供金融服務。我們在季度末推出了新的 HomeSafe Second 重點數位行銷活動，以確定吸引新客戶的策略，並正在組建專門的團隊來支持這些努力。

As the campaigns and team mature, insights gained will inform our growth strategy and investments for a digital-first channel for next year and beyond. We are also focused on improving our overall marketing strategy with a new advertising agency by introducing regional and local programs to build our brand profile and drive business in strategic markets starting in 2025.

隨著活動和團隊的成熟，所獲得的見解將為我們明年及以後的數位優先管道的成長策略和投資提供資訊。從 2025 年開始，我們也致力於透過引入區域和本地計劃來建立我們的品牌形象並推動策略市場的業務，從而透過新的廣告公司改善我們的整體行銷策略。

Regarding product innovation, we recently expanded our HomeSafe Second product to additional states and materially lowered the loan interest rate. HomeSafe Second allows homeowners aged 55 and older to access their home equity without affecting their traditional low rate first lien mortgage. In the third quarter, we saw an 89% increase in HomeSafe second loans compared to Q2, and we anticipate further growth in this area as we intentionally invest more capital and resources to the product.

在產品創新方面，我們最近將 HomeSafe Second 產品擴展到了更多州，並大幅降低了貸款利率。HomeSafe Second 允許 55 歲及以上的房主獲得房屋淨值，而不會影響其傳統的低利率第一留置權抵押貸款。第三季度，與第二季度相比，HomeSafe 第二筆貸款增加了 89%，隨著我們有意向該產品投入更多資本和資源，我們預計該領域將進一步成長。

While home equity lending nationwide is on the rise, recent Home to data shows people 55 and older face denial rates eclipsing 35%. Many have considerable home equity but struggle with tighter credit conditions affecting qualification. This represents a significant opportunity for us as our products are specifically designed to serve this demographic.

雖然全國範圍內的房屋淨值貸款呈上升趨勢，但最近的 Home to 數據顯示，55 歲及以上的人面臨的拒絕率高達 35%。許多人擁有可觀的房屋淨值，但在信貸條件收緊影響資格的情況下苦苦掙扎。這對我們來說是一個重要的機會，因為我們的產品是專門為服務這一人群而設計的。

If rates stay higher longer, our second lien home equity loan will continue to be a better option for many borrowers 55 and older. When rates start to fall, the traditional home equity conversion mortgages and our first lien proprietary suite may offer more attractive outcomes as well as increased refinance opportunities to our borrower base.

如果利率維持在較高水準的時間較長，我們的第二留置權房屋淨值貸款將繼續成為許多 55 歲及以上借款人的更好選擇。當利率開始下降時，傳統的房屋淨值轉換抵押貸款和我們的第一留置權專有套件可能會提供更具吸引力的結果，並為我們的借款人群體提供更多的再融資機會。

By harnessing the power of digital innovation and leveraging a modernized approach to advertising, we're poised to transform how we deliver our services to our customers and help empower more of them to unlock the full potential of retirement through the power of their homes equity.

透過利用數位創新的力量和現代化的廣告方法，我們準備好改變向客戶提供服務的方式，並幫助更多的人透過房屋淨值的力量釋放退休的全部潛力。

Now, I'll turn it over to Matt to discuss our financials.

現在，我將把它交給馬特來討論我們的財務狀況。

Thank you, Kristen, and good afternoon, everyone. Let me start with a brief overview of our financial results before I dive into specifics on the quarter. As Graham noted, we delivered $204 million in net income or $8.48 in basic earnings per share with adjusted net income reaching $15 million or $0.67 in adjusted earnings per share and adjusted EBITDA hitting $32 million.

謝謝克里斯汀，大家下午好。在深入了解本季的具體情況之前，讓我先簡單概述一下我們的財務表現。正如格雷厄姆指出的那樣，我們實現了2.04 億美元的淨利潤或8.48 美元的每股基本收益，調整後的淨利潤達到1500 萬美元或調整後的每股收益0.67 美元，調整後的EBITDA 達到3200 萬美元。

Our funded volume for the quarter was $513 million, which exceeded our guidance range of $475 million to $500 million. Tangible net worth rose to $231 million or approximately $10 per share. Comparing our performance to the previous quarter, we saw notable improvements across the board. Revenue increased from $79 million in Q2 to $290 million in Q3, driven by higher origination volumes and significant fair value gains on our residual assets. Net income rose to $204 million in Q3 from a loss of $5 million in Q2, largely due to favorable fair value adjustments from improving market inputs and model assumptions combined with increased operational efficiencies.

我們本季的融資額為 5.13 億美元，超出了我們 4.75 億至 5 億美元的指導範圍。有形淨資產增至 2.31 億美元，即每股約 10 美元。與上一季的業績相比，我們看到了全面的顯著改善。由於原始數量增加和剩餘資產的公允價值收益顯著增加，收入從第二季的 7,900 萬美元增加到第三季的 2.9 億美元。第三季的淨利潤從第二季的虧損 500 萬美元增至 2.04 億美元，這主要是由於市場投入和模型假設的改善以及營運效率的提高所帶來的有利的公允價值調整。

Adjusted EBITDA also saw an uptick, growing from $10 million last quarter to $32 million in Q3. This reflects a combination of higher revenue from increasing volumes and improved margins, along with continued reductions in operating expenses, particularly in the salaries and benefits as well as the general and administrative expense lines.

調整後 EBITDA 也有所上升，從上季的 1,000 萬美元成長到第三季的 3,200 萬美元。這反映出銷售量增加和利潤率提高帶來的收入增加，以及營運費用的持續減少，特別是工資和福利以及一般和行政費用項目。

Continuing to look at our quarter-over-quarter performance, we see solid progress across several financial metrics as outlined in the income statement slides in the earnings supplement. First, net portfolio interest income saw a slight decline, primarily due to the higher interest expense from our new non-agency financing facilities as we discussed last quarter. This was, however, more than offset by a reduction in fair value changes from model amortization, which led to a higher accreted yield on our portfolio compared to last quarter.

繼續觀察我們的季度環比業績，我們看到收益補充中損益表幻燈片中概述的幾個財務指標都取得了堅實的進展。首先，淨投資組合利息收入略有下降，主要是由於我們上季度討論的新的非機構融資工具的利息支出較高。然而，這被模型攤提公允價值變化的減少所抵消，這導致我們的投資組合的累積收益率比上季更高。

On the originations front, net originations gains increased notably from $40 million to $57 million as our originations platform grew both in volumes by 15% and margins by 19%. On the expense side, total expenses continued to decrease as a result of the company's cost-saving initiatives. Salaries and benefits saw the largest reduction driven by the impact of our rightsizing efforts. This was the first full quarter in which we realized the full benefits of these operational efficiencies. This quarter-over-quarter improvement highlights the strength of our business model, our ability to adapt to market conditions and the operational discipline that has positioned us for sustained profitability.

在發起方面，隨著我們的發起平台數量增加了 15%，利潤率增加了 19%，發起淨收益顯著從 4,000 萬美元增加到 5,700 萬美元。在費用方面，由於公司採取了成本節約舉措，總費用持續下降。由於我們精簡規模努力的影響，薪資和福利的減少幅度最大。這是我們第一個完整季度認識到這些營運效率的全部好處。這一季度環比的改善凸顯了我們業務模式的優勢、我們適應市場條件的能力以及使我們能夠持續盈利的營運紀律。

Looking at our year-to-date performance, we've made significant progress across several key financial metrics. Through the third quarter of 2024, we generated $444 million in total revenue. Net income year-to-date has reached $183 million, while adjusted net income stands at $9 million. Additionally, adjusted EBITDA for the first 9 months of the year totaled $42 million, demonstrating the strong momentum we've built throughout 2024. These results reflect the success of our strategic initiatives, improved operational efficiencies and disciplined cost management, which have all contributed to enhanced profitability and long-term growth potential.

看看我們今年迄今的業績，我們在幾個關鍵財務指標上取得了重大進展。截至 2024 年第三季度，我們的總營收為 4.44 億美元。年初至今淨利已達 1.83 億美元，調整後淨利為 900 萬美元。此外，今年前 9 個月的調整後 EBITDA 總額為 4,200 萬美元，展示了我們在 2024 年全年建立的強勁勢頭。這些結果反映了我們策略性舉措的成功、營運效率的提高和嚴格的成本管理，這些都有助於提高獲利能力和長期成長潛力。

Our adjusted earnings per share came in at $0.67 for the quarter, underscoring our ability to drive both top line growth and operational improvements. As we continue executing our plan, we expect to achieve sustained profitability by investing in growth opportunities in our origination platform and maintaining an optimized fixed cost structure. For 2025, we expect to deliver adjusted earnings per share between $2.60 to $3 and remain confident in our trajectory and our ability to meet our financial targets.

本季調整後每股收益為 0.67 美元，突顯了我們推動營收成長和營運改善的能力。隨著我們繼續執行我們的計劃，我們希望透過投資於我們的創始平台的成長機會並保持優化的固定成本結構來實現持續盈利。到 2025 年，我們預計調整後每股盈餘將在 2.60 美元至 3 美元之間，並對我們的發展軌跡和實現財務目標的能力保持信心。

Turning to the balance sheet. With the completion of the unsecured note exchange, which has bolstered our capital structure and extended our debt maturities, we've greatly enhanced our ability to focus on growth. Recently, our team has executed several transactions that were critical to supporting our long-term objectives and maintaining financial flexibility. During the third quarter, we completed another quarterly securitization of our HomeSafe product totaling $794 million, our third such securitization in 2024, which provided us with enhanced liquidity.

轉向資產負債表。隨著無擔保票據交換的完成，加強了我們的資本結構並延長了我們的債務期限，我們大大增強了我們專注於成長的能力。最近，我們的團隊執行了幾筆交易，這些交易對於支持我們的長期目標和保持財務靈活性至關重要。第三季度，我們完成了 HomeSafe 產品的另一季度證券化，總額達 7.94 億美元，這是我們 2024 年的第三次此類證券化，這為我們提供了增強的流動性。

In the month of October, we completed the call and reissue of our HECM buyout securitizations totaling $705 million, providing long-term financing for this asset class and generating positive cash flow to the business.

10 月份，我們完成了總額 7.05 億美元的 HECM 收購證券化的贖回和重新發行，為該資產類別提供了長期融資，並為業務產生了正現金流。

Looking ahead, we are encouraged by the favorable trends in the reverse mortgage market and the strength of our proprietary product offerings. Our ability to adapt to changing market conditions, combined with a strong balance sheet following the successful debt exchange and improving liquidity position provides a solid foundation for future growth. We expect to continue generating positive cash flow and building on our financial successes as we progress into the fourth quarter and 2025.

展望未來，反向抵押貸款市場的有利趨勢和我們專有產品的實力令我們感到鼓舞。我們適應不斷變化的市場條件的能力，加上成功債務交換後的強勁資產負債表和改善的流動性狀況，為未來的成長奠定了堅實的基礎。隨著第四季和 2025 年的進展，我們預計將繼續產生正現金流並鞏固我們的財務成功。

With that, let me hand it back to Graham for closing remarks.

接下來，讓我將其交還給格雷厄姆進行結束語。

Thank you, Matt. As we conclude a successful third quarter, I want to express my gratitude for the dedication and resilience of our team. Their efforts are central to Finance of America's strong performance, and I'm proud of the results we've delivered. Looking ahead, as Matt noted, we expect to deliver adjusted earnings per share between $2.60 and $3 in 2025 as we continue to execute our plan and achieve sustained profitability.

謝謝你，馬特。在我們圓滿結束第三季之際，我想對我們團隊的奉獻精神和韌性表示感謝。他們的努力對於美國金融公司的強勁業績至關重要，我對我們所取得的成果感到自豪。展望未來，正如 Matt 指出的那樣，隨著我們繼續執行我們的計劃並實現持續盈利，我們預計 2025 年調整後每股收益將在 2.60 美元至 3 美元之間。

With the senior population expected to nearly double by 2050, we are excited about our pipeline of submission volumes, and we see a massive total addressable market over the long term, which we are well positioned to capture as the market grows. When you consider the record number of seniors who are financially prepared for retirement while simultaneously holding a record amount of home equity, we'll be poised to meet their needs with our home equity-based retirement products.

到2050 年，老年人口預計將增加近一倍，我們對我們的提交量管道感到興奮，並且我們看到長期來看一個巨大的潛在市場，隨著市場的增長，我們已經做好了抓住這一市場的準備。當您考慮到在經濟上為退休做好準備同時持有創紀錄數量的房屋淨值的老年人數量達到創紀錄水平時，我們將準備通過我們基於房屋淨值的退休產品來滿足他們的需求。

And with that, we'll open the call up for some questions.

至此，我們將開始徵集一些問題。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Douglas Harter, UBS.

道格拉斯‧哈特，瑞銀集團。

Hi, thanks. It's actually Marissa Lobo on for Doug. I was hoping you could give us an outlook for volume given the backup in rates.

你好，謝謝。實際上是瑪麗莎·洛博（Marissa Lobo）代替道格。我希望你能給我們一個考慮到利率備份的交易量前景。

For which time period?

哪個時段？

For '25.

對於'25。

So the number we have -- we did over $500 million in our third quarter. We expect to see something in that same ballpark here in the fourth quarter. For next year, we're starting to see some sequential growth. As you pointed out, the rates are up a little bit. We'll see where the rates settle out here over the long term. But some of the growth initiatives we have going into 2025, lead us to believe we'll be able to increase that number a bit. So we're probably looking more in the range for 2025 full year in the neighborhood of about $2.7 billion, somewhere in that ballpark.

所以我們的數字是——我們第三季的營收超過 5 億美元。我們預計第四季會在同一球場上看到一些東西。明年，我們將開始看到一些連續成長。正如您所指出的，利率略有上漲。從長遠來看，我們將看到利率的穩定。但我們在 2025 年採取的一些成長舉措讓我們相信我們能夠稍微增加這個數字。因此，我們可能會在 2025 年全年的範圍內尋找更多約 27 億美元的資金，大約在這個範圍內。

Got it. Thank you.

知道了。謝謝。

Sorry, I did jump in. I question on the rates, though, right? One of the reasons we introduced our HomeSafe Second program and our second lien reverse mortgage is exactly because of that reason. So we feel if rates are going up, a second lien product will be ideal for our borrowers. If rates come down, they can refinance out of their forward mortgage into a reverse. So we think we're positioned to grow that volume kind of I don't want to say regardless of rates, but if rates stay around the ZIP code, we think that we could continue to increase our volume on a monthly basis.

抱歉，我確實跳進去了。不過我對費率有疑問，對嗎？我們推出 HomeSafe Second 計畫和第二留置權反向抵押貸款的原因之一正是因為這個原因。因此，我們認為，如果利率上升，第二留置權產品將是我們借款人的理想選擇。如果利率下降，他們可以將遠期抵押貸款再融資為反向抵押貸款。因此，我們認為我們有能力增加銷量，無論費率如何，我不想說，但如果費率保持在郵遞區號附近，我們認為我們可以繼續每月增加銷售量。

Got it. That's helpful. Thank you. And also, could you give us an update on the timing and your thoughts on the impact of HMBS 2.0?

知道了。這很有幫助。謝謝。另外，您能否向我們介紹 HMBS 2.0 的最新時間安排以及您對 HMBS 2.0 影響的看法？

So we were in Denver last week in the (technical difficulty) Their latest feedback to us was sometime around the middle of November. So we're still waiting to see that letter, but that was their communication to us last week.

所以我們上週在丹佛（技術困難），他們給我們的最新回饋是在 11 月中旬的某個時候。所以我們仍在等待看到那封信，但這是他們上週給我們的通訊。

Got it. Thank you. That's all for me.

知道了。謝謝。這就是我的全部。

Stephen Laws, Raymond James.

史蒂芬勞斯，雷蒙德詹姆斯。

Great volumes in Q3, and I appreciate the guidance. I'm sitting at 263. So nice to be on the low end of what you put out. I wanted to follow up to your comments about volumes. You mentioned Q4, you kind of expect similar to Q3, a little surprised by that. So I'm curious kind of the pipeline, I guess, seems somewhat immune to the rate volatility? Or is it more that maybe it would have grown sequentially had we not seen the vol in rates?And then to follow up on that, as I think about Q1, is there any seasonality there kind of just coming after the year where maybe it tends to be a lighter quarter or maybe you don't expect to see that?

第三季銷量很大，我很感謝您的指導。我坐的是263。很高興能處於你所推出的低階產品。我想跟進您對數量的評論。你提到第四季度，你有點期待與第三季度類似，這一點有點驚訝。所以我很好奇，我猜想，這種管道似乎在某種程度上不受利率波動的影響？或者說，如果我們沒有看到利率波動，它可能會持續成長？然後跟進這個問題，正如我對第一季的看法，在今年之後是否會出現季節性，可能季度會比較淡，或者您可能不希望看到這種情況？

So good question, Steve. I'll start and then kick it around to my team here. But as Kristen mentioned in her comments, October of this year was our highest month this year for both funding volume and submission volume, right? So we had a pretty strong start to the funding volume for the quarter. And also, we have a good strong start to our pipeline heading into the rest of Q4. So that's very favorable. Now -- but November and December, you start to get into holiday periods, right, which will depend on the number of business days, may curtail your funding ability a little bit and also curtail your lead generation and your new pipeline a little bit.

問得好，史蒂夫。我將開始，然後將其交給我的團隊。但正如 Kristen 在她的評論中提到的，今年 10 月是我們今年資金量和提交量最高的月份，對嗎？因此，我們本季的融資量有一個相當強勁的開局。此外，我們的產品線在第四季剩餘時間裡有一個良好的良好開端。所以這是非常有利的。現在 - 但是十一月和十二月，你開始進入假期，對吧，這將取決於工作日的數量，可能會稍微削弱你的融資能力，也會稍微削弱你的潛在客戶開發和新管道。

So we're thinking about it that for Q4, even though we have a strong start, probably going to be in the same context of Q3. And then the seasonality, if there is some, will probably be reflected in the Q1 volumes, right, because you'll have the lower lead generation in the November and December time frame. And then after Q1, that's when you start to see the real uptick.

因此，我們正在考慮第四季度，儘管我們有一個強勁的開局，但可能會處於與第三季度相同的背景下。然後，季節性（如果有的話）可能會反映在第一季的銷售中，對吧，因為在 11 月和 12 月的時間範圍內，潛在客戶的產生量會較低。在第一季之後，你就開始看到真正的上升。

Yeah, and I'd just add, we have such low market penetration that as rates stay higher for longer, we continue to get more interest from traditional mortgage bankers and loan officers, which can then go out and tap more of that available market that isn't being educated on the product opportunity today. So we see that as a potential growth opportunity for 2025 as well.

是的，我只是補充一下，我們的市場滲透率如此之低，隨著利率在較長時間內保持較高水平，我們繼續從傳統抵押貸款銀行家和信貸員那裡獲得更多興趣，然後他們可以走出去，挖掘更多可用市場今天沒有接受有關產品機會的教育。因此，我們認為這也是 2025 年的潛在成長機會。

Great. I appreciate those comments. And then around the rate volatility, fair value marks got a big gain in Q3. How do we think about any reversal since given the move in October and where we are today? Or how should we think about the impact on fair value marks from the rate move?

偉大的。我很欣賞這些評論。然後圍繞利率波動，公允價值標記在第三季度獲得了大幅上漲。鑑於 10 月的走勢以及我們今天的處境，我們如何看待任何逆轉？或者我們應該如何考慮利率變動對公允價值標記的影響？

So I think, as always, there's multiple factors that go into our fair value analysis, interest rates being one. And they were down in Q3. They're up here in October, early November. We'll see where it settles out over the course of the full quarter. But you also have to think about what's going on with spreads, right, and home price appreciation, among other factors. So rates are up, but we've seen some spread tightening in the market. Our last HomeSafe deal was pretty strong. We did the [Nabo] securitization collapse and reissue here just a couple of weeks ago, saw very good spreads. So that will mute and offset some of the interest rate increase.

因此，我認為，一如既往，我們的公允價值分析涉及多種因素，利率就是其中之一。他們在第三季度出現了下滑。他們十月、十一月初來到這裡。我們將看看整個季度的情況如何。但你也必須考慮利差、權利和房價升值等因素的情況。因此，利率上升，但我們看到市場利差有所收緊。我們上次的 HomeSafe 交易相當強勁。幾週前我們在這裡進行了[Nabo]證券化崩潰並重新發行，看到了非常好的價差。因此，這將抑制並抵消部分利率上漲。

We'll get to the end of the quarter and see where some of the other factors like home price appreciation settle out on a market-by-market basis. So it's hard to pin down exactly. But -- so it will be down somewhat because interest rate moves, but then we'll bring it back a little bit because of the spread tightening.

我們將到本季末，看看房價升值等其他一些因素在逐個市場的基礎上如何解決。所以很難準確地確定。但是，由於利率變動，它會有所下降，但由於利差收緊，我們會將其稍微拉回來。

Great. Appreciate the comments this afternoon. Thank you.

偉大的。感謝今天下午的評論。謝謝。

This concludes the question-and-answer session. I will turn the call to Graham Fleming for closing remarks.

問答環節到此結束。我將請格雷厄姆·弗萊明 (Graham Fleming) 致閉幕詞。

Yes. Thank you, everybody, for your time today, and we look forward to updating our Q4 and full-year results in March of next year. So thank you very much.

是的。謝謝大家今天抽出時間，我們期待在明年 3 月更新我們的第四季和全年業績。非常感謝。

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for joining. You may now disconnect your lines.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的加入。現在您可以斷開線路。