Fluence Energy Inc (FLNC) 2025 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to Fluence Energy's Fourth Quarter 2025 Earnings Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) Please note that today's conference is being recorded.

您好，感謝您的耐心等待。歡迎參加 Fluence Energy 2025 年第四季財報電話會議。（操作員說明）請注意，今天的會議正在錄音。

I will now hand the conference over to your speaker host, Chris Shelton, VP of Investor Relations and Sustainability. Please go ahead.

現在我將把會議交給各位演講嘉賓主持人，投資者關係和永續發展副總裁克里斯謝爾頓。請繼續。

Good morning, and welcome to Fluence Energy's Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2025 Earnings Conference Call. Before we begin, I want to share my excitement as our new Investor Relations Officer. I look forward to engaging with our analysts and investor community.

早上好，歡迎參加 Fluence Energy 2025 年第四季及全年財報電話會議。在正式開始之前，我想分享一下我作為新任投資者關係官的激動心情。我期待與我們的分析師和投資者群體進行交流。

I would also like to recognize Lexington May, who has recently taken on a new role at Fluence. Lex has been instrumental in leading our Investor Relations program since our initial public offering and its contributions have greatly benefited our company and its shareholders.

我還要特別提及最近在 Fluence 擔任新職位的 Lexington May。自公司首次公開募股以來，Lex 一直領導著我們的投資者關係計劃，其貢獻極大地惠及了公司及其股東。

Joining me on this morning's call are Julian Nebreda, our President and Chief Executive Officer; and Ahmed Pasha, our Chief Financial Officer. A copy of our earnings presentation, press release and supplementary metric sheet covering financial results, along with supporting statements and schedules, including reconciliations and disclosures regarding our non-GAAP financial measures are posted on the Investor Relations section of our website at fluenceenergy.com.

今天早上和我一起參加電話會議的還有我們的總裁兼執行長朱利安·內布雷達，以及我們的財務長艾哈邁德·帕夏。我們的收益簡報、新聞稿和涵蓋財務績效的補充指標表副本，以及支持性聲明和附表，包括有關我們非GAAP財務指標的調節和披露，均發佈在我們的網站fluenceenergy.com的投資者關係部分。

During the course of this call, Fluence management may make certain forward-looking statements regarding various matters related to our business and companies that are not historical facts. Such statements are based upon current expectations and certain assumptions that are, therefore, subject to certain risks and uncertainties. Many factors could cause actual results to differ materially. Please refer to our SEC filings for our forward-looking statements and more information regarding certain risks and uncertainties that could impact our future results. You are cautioned not to place undue reliance on these forward-looking statements, which speak only as of today. Also, please note that the company undertakes no duty to update or revise forward-looking statements for new information.

在本次電話會議期間，Fluence 管理階層可能會就與我們業務和公司相關的各種事項發表一些前瞻性聲明，這些聲明並非歷史事實。此類聲明是基於目前的預期和某些假設，因此存在一定的風險和不確定性。許多因素都可能導致實際結果與預期有重大差異。有關可能影響我們未來業績的某些風險和不確定性的更多信息，請參閱我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件。請注意，不要過度依賴這些前瞻性聲明，這些聲明僅代表截至今日的觀點。另外，請注意，本公司不承擔因新資訊而更新或修改前瞻性聲明的義務。

This call will also reference non-GAAP financial measures that we view as important in assessing the performance of our business. A reconciliation of these non-GAAP measures to the most comparable GAAP measures is available in our earnings materials on the company's Investor Relations website.

本次電話會議也將提及我們認為對評估公司績效至關重要的非GAAP財務指標。這些非GAAP指標與最可比較的GAAP指標的調節表可在公司投資者關係網站的獲利資料中找到。

Following our prepared comments, we will conduct a question-and-answer session with our team. During this time, to give more participants an opportunity to speak on this call, please limit yourself to one initial question and one follow-up.

在發表完準備好的評論後，我們將與團隊成員進行問答環節。在此期間，為了讓更多參與者有機會在本次電話會議上發言，請您限制自己只能提出一個初始問題和一個後續問題。

Thank you very much. I'll now turn the call over to Julian.

非常感謝。現在我將把電話交給朱利安。

Thank you, Chris. I would like to send a warm welcome to our investors, analysts and employees who are participating in today's call. This morning, I will review the highlights of our fiscal '25 results, the accelerating demand for energy storage and how Fluence is positioned to lead in this growing market. I will also provide an update on our product road map, our domestic content strategy and progress towards all BBBA compliance. Ahmed will then cover our financial results and '26 outlook.

謝謝你，克里斯。我謹代表公司，熱烈歡迎各位投資人、分析師和員工參加今天的電話會議。今天上午，我將回顧我們 2025 財年的業績亮點、不斷增長的儲能需求以及 Fluence 如何在這個不斷增長的市場中佔據領先地位。我也會介紹我們的產品路線圖、國內內容策略以及在全面遵守BBBA標準方面取得的進展。接下來，艾哈邁德將介紹我們的財務表現和2026年展望。

Turning to slide 4 and our financial performance. First, I am pleased to report that during the fourth quarter, we signed more than $1.4 billion of orders, which represents a record level. This brings our current backlog to $5.3 billion, setting us up for renewed growth in '26 and beyond.

接下來請看第 4 張投影片，了解我們的財務表現。首先，我很高興地報告，在第四季度，我們簽署了超過 14 億美元的訂單，創歷史新高。這使我們的現有訂單積壓達到 53 億美元，為我們在 2026 年及以後的重新成長奠定了基礎。

Second, full year revenue came in at approximately $2.3 billion, about $300 million below our expectations, mostly due to delays by our contract manufacturer in ramping up our newly commissioned Arizona enclosure manufacturing facility. We have implemented corrective actions. Production is improving, and we are confident in meeting delivery commitments and capturing the shortfall during fiscal '26. I will discuss these details further in a moment.

其次，全年收入約為 23 億美元，比我們的預期低了約 3 億美元，這主要是由於我們的合約製造商在提高我們新投產的亞利桑那州機櫃製造工廠的產能方面出現了延誤。我們已採取糾正措施。生產正在改善，我們有信心在 2026 財年履行交付承諾並彌補缺口。我稍後會進一步討論這些細節。

Third, despite this revenue impact, we delivered a record of approximately 13.7% adjusted gross margin for the year and approximately $19.5 million of adjusted EBITDA, which was at the top end of our guidance range. These results were the product of good execution on projects and cost efficiencies. Fourth, in terms of annual recurring revenue or ARR, we ended fiscal '26 with $148 million, slightly above our original guidance of $145 million. And fifth and finally, we ended the quarter with approximately $1.3 billion in liquidity which puts us in a strong financial position to fund our plans for growth.

第三，儘管收入受到影響，但我們全年仍實現了約 13.7% 的調整後毛利率和約 1,950 萬美元的調整後 EBITDA，達到了我們預期範圍的上限。這些成果是專案執行得好和成本效益高的結果。第四，就年度經常性收入（ARR）而言，我們在 2026 財年結束時實現了 1.48 億美元，略高於我們最初預期的 1.45 億美元。第五，也是最後一點，本季末我們擁有約 13 億美元的流動資金，這使我們處於強大的財務地位，可以為我們的成長計畫提供資金。

Please turn to slide 5 for details on our order intake and pipeline. Our record $1.4 billion of order intake during the fourth quarter included contributions across all our core markets. Approximately half were for projects located in Australia. For fiscal '26, we currently expect the US market will be the largest contributor of order intake as reflected by our pipeline as of year-end.

請翻到第 5 頁查看有關我們訂單接收和流程的詳細資訊。第四季度，我們創紀錄的 14 億美元訂單涵蓋了我們所有核心市場。其中約一半是位於澳洲的項目。根據我們截至年底的訂單儲備情況，我們預計 2026 財年美國市場將成為訂單量的最大貢獻者。

Looking ahead, demand for energy storage solution is accelerating worldwide, driven by both the rapid decline in capital cost of storage and surging demand for electricity for intermittent renewables, data centers and industrial complexes. We have seen a significant increase in larger deals in our pipeline that as of September 30, includes 38 deals of at least 1 gigawatt hour, more than double the number from last year and nearly 5 times what we saw two years ago.

展望未來，全球對儲能解決方案的需求正在加速成長，這既得益於儲能設備資本成本的快速下降，也得益於間歇性再生能源、資料中心和工業園區對電力需求的激增。我們看到，我們儲備中的大型交易數量顯著增加，截至 9 月 30 日，其中包括 38 筆至少 1 吉瓦時的交易，是去年的兩倍多，幾乎是兩年前的 5 倍。

Please turn to slide 6. Earlier this month, we announced a landmark 4 gigawatt hour project with LEAG, representing the largest battery project in European history. These projects will use our new Smartstack product and play a key role in Germany's energy transformation. We are very pleased to welcome LEAG as a customer and look forward to supporting additional energy transformation projects across European markets.

請翻到第6張投影片。本月初，我們與 LEAG 宣布了一個具有里程碑意義的 4 吉瓦時項目，這是歐洲歷史上最大的電池項目。這些項目將使用我們新的 Smartstack 產品，並在德國的能源轉型中發揮關鍵作用。我們非常高興地歡迎 LEAG 成為我們的客戶，並期待支持歐洲市場上更多的能源轉型專案。

Please turn to slide 7 for other emerging drivers supporting our pipeline growth. We have seen significant pickup in demand from data center customers. We are currently in discussions with data center projects representing over 30 gigawatt hours. 80% of these engagements have originated since the end of the quarter. Fluence is ready to lead in this emerging market segment with Smartstack industry-leading density, reliability and safety in addition to its lower cost of ownership. Another set of emerging opportunities is long-duration storage, which is driven by the need for six- to eight-hour duration batteries in markets with significant renewable penetration, such as Europe and California.

請翻到第 7 頁，了解其他推動我們產品線成長的新興因素。我們看到來自資料中心客戶的需求顯著增長。我們目前正在與一些資料中心專案進行洽談，這些專案總裝置容量超過30吉瓦時。其中80%的洽談活動都是在本季末之後啟動的。Fluence 憑藉 Smartstack 業界領先的密度、可靠性和安全性，以及更低的擁有成本，已準備好在這個新興市場領域佔據領先地位。另一組新興機會是長時儲能，這是由於歐洲和加州等再生能源滲透率較高的市場對續航時間為 6 至 8 小時的電池的需求所驅動的。

Specifically, in Europe, regulatory schemes are in place to procure this capacity. Today, we have line of sight into 60 gigawatt hours of long-duration storage tenders. Smartstack is well suited to compete in this segment due to its flexible architecture and a scalable design.

具體而言，在歐洲，已經制定了監管機制來獲取這種能力。今天，我們已經看到了 60 吉瓦時長儲能招標專案的前景。Smartstack憑藉其靈活的架構和可擴展的設計，非常適合在這個細分市場中競爭。

Please turn to slide 8 for an update on our team. To capture the opportunities I have just described, we have sharpened our focus on sales and flawless project execution.

請翻到第 8 頁，了解我們團隊的最新情況。為了抓住我剛才描述的機會，我們更加重視銷售和完美的專案執行。

To that end, we are excited to welcome Jeff Monday as our new Chief Growth Officer. Jeff leads our global sales and marketing teams. He brings deep experience from Qualcomm, where he built their global enterprise and channel sales teams. Prior to that, Jeff spent 18 years leading sales teams at Apple. His expertise will help us expand the reach of Fluence's brand to new customers and industries, such as the tech sector.

為此，我們很高興地歡迎 Jeff Monday 擔任我們新的首席成長長。Jeff 領導我們的全球銷售和行銷團隊。他擁有來自高通公司的豐富經驗，並曾組成了該公司的全球企業和通路銷售團隊。在此之前，傑夫曾在蘋果領導銷售團隊長達 18 年。他的專業知識將幫助我們擴大 Fluence 品牌的覆蓋範圍，惠及新的客戶和產業，例如科技業。

In addition, we have also expanded John Zahurancik's role as Chief Customer Success Officer. As one of our company's founders and an industry pioneer, John will leverage our record of successful execution to further differentiate Fluence from our competition. He will also maximize the value of our solutions for our customers with our digital and services offerings. We believe that these internal changes will streamline our customer experience and position us to win a larger portion of our pipeline.

此外，我們也擴大了 John Zahurancik 的職責範圍，他擔任首席客戶成功長。作為我們公司的創始人之一和行業先驅，John 將利用我們以往的成功執行記錄，進一步使 Fluence 與競爭對手區分開來。他也將利用我們的數位化和服務產品，最大限度地提升我們為客戶帶來的解決方案價值。我們相信，這些內部變革將簡化我們的客戶體驗，並使我們能夠贏得更大份額的銷售線索。

Please turn to slide 9 as I discuss our new Smartstack product. We are pleased with the market reception of Smartstack. In addition to its role in winning our LEAG deal, this month, we are deploying the first Smartstack units in a project site in Taiwan.

請翻到第 9 張投影片，我將在此介紹我們的新 Smartstack 產品。我們對Smartstack的市場反應感到滿意。除了在贏得 LEAG 合約中發揮的作用外，本月我們還將在台灣的一個專案現場部署首批 Smartstack 單元。

We designed Smartstack with the objective of reducing total cost of ownership for our customers. This means in addition to a lower sales price, Smartstack offers lower cost to install and maintain the system over its useful life with top-of-the-line operational metrics. Smartstack is the only product available today that offers battery density of 7.5 megawatt hour per unit, letting customers see over 500 megawatt hours of storage per acre.

我們設計 Smartstack 的目標是降低客戶的總擁有成本。這意味著，除了更低的售價外，Smartstack 還提供了更低的安裝和維護成本，並在其使用壽命內實現了頂級的營運指標。Smartstack 是目前市面上唯一一款每單位電池密度達到 7.5 兆瓦時的產品，讓客戶每英畝可獲得超過 500 兆瓦時的儲能容量。

That means bigger projects, optimized sites and better economics, all else equal. Additionally, Smartstack maintains all elements of fire safety and cybersecurity that have been historically a salient element of our offering. Finally, Smartstack is developed with a flexible system architecture that can adapt to customers' specifications. We expect this will be a key selling point for data centers as technology to reduce system latency evolves and Smartstack kits can be upgraded with new equipment quickly on site. We are engaged with many customers interested in Smartstack and expect it will represent a majority of our orders for this fiscal year.

這意味著在其他條件相同的情況下，專案規模更大、網站更優化、經濟效益更好。此外，Smartstack 還保留了消防安全和網路安全的所有要素，這些要素歷來都是我們產品和服務的重要組成部分。最後，Smartstack 採用靈活的系統架構，可依照客戶的特定要求進行調整。我們預計，隨著降低系統延遲的技術不斷發展，Smartstack 套件可以現場快速升級新設備，這將成為資料中心的關鍵賣點。我們正在與許多對 Smartstack 感興趣的客戶進行洽談，預計 Smartstack 將佔本財年訂單的大部分。

Please turn to slide 10 for an update on our domestic content strategy. Our domestic supply chain is a critical advantage for our business, particularly given that we see the majority of our growth coming from the US market. We have contracted with three key production facilities located in Tennessee, Utah and Arizona. The Tennessee and Utah facilities produce our battery cells and modules, respectively, and they have successfully met production metrics in line with our expectations at the time of our last earnings call.

請翻到第 10 頁，了解我們國內內容策略的最新進展。我們的國內供應鏈對我們的業務來說是一項關鍵優勢，尤其考慮到我們的大部分成長都來自美國市場。我們已與位於田納西州、猶他州和亞利桑那州的三個主要生產工廠簽訂了合約。田納西州和猶他州的工廠分別生產我們的電池芯和模組，在我們上次財報電話會議上，它們都成功達到了我們預期的生產指標。

The Arizona facility, which manufactures enclosures, has not met its production targets during this period. Without those enclosures, we were unable to deliver our completed products and recognize the corresponding revenue during the fourth quarter. The primary cause of the manufacturing delay has been the slower ramp in staffing the facility, especially for weekend shift. We have been working with our contract manufacturer to execute a plan to improve staffing levels and further optimize the workflow. As of today, the production rate has improved and staffing levels have in great measure been met, which give us confidence that the manufacturer will meet our desired target rate by the end of this calendar year.

位於亞利桑那州的這家生產外殼的工廠在此期間未能達到其生產目標。如果沒有這些外殼，我們就無法交付成品，也無法在第四季確認相應的收入。造成生產延誤的主要原因是工廠人員配備進度緩慢，尤其是週末班次的人員配置。我們一直在與合約製造商合作，執行一項旨在提高人員配備水平並進一步優化工作流程的計劃。截至目前，生產率有所提高，人員配備水準也基本達到要求，這讓我們有信心，製造商將在今年年底前達到我們期望的目標產量。

We expect to fulfill all of our customer delivery commitments over the course of '26 and book the associated '26 mix revenue. We will continue to work with our US manufacturers to scale production and maintain our leadership position. We are committed to serving our US customers with a competitive domestically manufactured solution.

我們預計在 2026 年內履行所有客戶交付承諾，並確認相關的 2026 年混合收入。我們將繼續與美國製造商合作，擴大生產規模，並保持我們的領先地位。我們致力於為美國客戶提供具競爭力的國產解決方案。

Please turn to slide 11 for an update on our prohibited foreign entity or PFE compliance strategy. A quick refresh. The One Big Beautiful Bill or OBBBA included regulations designed to restrict tax credit availability for products manufactured in the US but supported by companies deemed to be PFEs. To that end, our strategy aims to meet our growing volume demand for domestic content from a diverse set of qualified suppliers.

請翻到第 11 頁，以了解我們關於禁止外國實體 (PFE) 合規策略的最新資訊。快速刷新一下。《一項偉大的法案》（簡稱 OBBBA）包含旨在限制對在美國製造但由被認定為 PFE 的公司支持的產品提供稅收抵免的規定。為此，我們的策略旨在滿足我們對來自不同合格供應商的國產零件日益增長的需求。

I am pleased to report significant progress. More specifically, this month, we have secured a second supplier for domestic battery cells. This manufacturer is compliant with all OBBBA regulations and further derisk our future growth. Turning to our Tennessee facility. We continue to work actively with AESC to find a comprehensive solution to comply with PFE regulations.

我很高興地報告，我們取得了重大進展。更具體地說，本月我們找到了第二個國產電池供應商。該製造商符合 OBBBA 的所有規定，進一步降低了我們未來發展的風險。接下來我們來看看位於田納西州的工廠。我們將繼續積極與AESC合作，尋找符合PFE法規的全面解決方案。

The three key pieces to achieve non-PFE status include transfer of ownership, IP and material assistance. Significant progress has been made in addressing all these three items. The option of Fluence purchasing the facility from AESC remains under consideration as a possible solution. We continue to view the incremental financing need of a potential transaction as being manageable within our available liquidity. Both parties are motivated, and we continue to expect a constructive resolution in advance of the effective dates specified by the law.

實現非 PFE 地位的三個關鍵要素包括所有權轉移、智慧財產權和物質援助。在解決這三個問題上都取得了顯著進展。Fluence 從 AESC 收購該設施的方案仍在考慮之中，這或許是一個可行的解決方案。我們仍然認為，潛在交易的新增融資需求在我們現有的流動資金範圍內是可控的。雙方都有積極性，我們仍然期待在法律規定的生效日期之前達成建設性的解決方案。

I will now turn the call over to Ahmed to discuss our financial results and fiscal '26 guidance.

現在我將把電話交給艾哈邁德，讓他討論我們的財務表現和 2026 財年展望。

Thank you, Julian, and good morning, everyone. Today, I will review full year 2025 financial results and our liquidity position, followed by a discussion of our fiscal year 2026 guidance.

謝謝你，朱利安，大家早安。今天，我將回顧 2025 年全年財務表現和我們的流動性狀況，然後討論我們 2026 財年的業績指引。

Starting with slide 13, covering fiscal year 2025 performance. Over the course of the year, we generated revenue of around $2.3 billion. As Julian mentioned, this figure falls short of our expectations by $300 million, largely due to a slower-than-anticipated ramp-up at one of our contract manufacturing facilities in Arizona. While this shortfall was a challenge, I want to highlight that our disciplined execution and operational focus enabled us to deliver on our profitability and bottom-line objectives.

從第 13 張投影片開始，涵蓋 2025 財年的表現。這一年，我們創造了約 23 億美元的收入。正如朱利安所提到的那樣，這個數字比我們的預期少了 3 億美元，這主要是由於我們在亞利桑那州的一家合約製造工廠的產能提升速度比預期要慢。儘管這一缺口是一個挑戰，但我想強調的是，我們嚴謹的執行和專注的營運使我們能夠實現盈利和最終目標。

Regarding production, most of our US-based contract manufacturing facilities have been operating at their targeted capacities, including both cell and module manufacturing. However, the newly commissioned enclosure facility in Arizona faced some challenges, primarily due to the longer lead time to attract and train the workforce necessary to drive productivity. This was the primary factor behind the lower-than-expected revenue in the quarter.

在生產方面，我們位於美國的大多數合約製造工廠都已達到其目標產能，包括電池和組件製造。然而，亞利桑那州新建的封閉式設施面臨一些挑戰，主要是因為吸引和培訓提高生產力所需的勞動力需要較長的準備時間。這是本季度營收低於預期的主要原因。

Working in collaboration with our contractor, we have seen significant production improvement since September. The majority of personnel required to execute our plan have now been hired, and we are on track to achieve our targeted production levels. Our adjusted EBITDA for the year was $19.5 million, which came at the top end of our guidance range even as revenue fell short of expectations. This outcome underscores our operational excellence and strong execution.

自9月以來，透過與承包商的合作，我們的生產效率得到了顯著提高。執行計劃所需的大部分人員現已招聘完畢，我們正按計劃實現既定的生產目標。我們在本年度調整後的 EBITDA 為 1,950 萬美元，達到了我們預期範圍的上限，儘管收入低於預期。這項結果凸顯了我們卓越的營運能力和強大的執行力。

Turning to slide 14. We achieved a record level of 13.7% adjusted gross margin for the year, above the top end of our expectations. In addition, our rolling 12-month adjusted gross margin is consistently at or above 13%. This reflects our strong focus on productivity and successfully leveraging our supply chain.

翻到第14張投影片。我們今年調整後毛利率達到創紀錄的 13.7%，高於我們預期的最高水準。此外，我們過去 12 個月的滾動調整後毛利率一直保持在 13% 或以上。這體現了我們對生產力的高度重視以及對供應鏈的成功利用。

Turning to slide 15. We also finished the year with a record of approximately $1.3 billion in liquidity, up $300 million compared to the end of fiscal 2024. This includes more than $700 million in cash with the rest available through our credit facilities.

翻到第15張投影片。我們今年的流動資金也創下約 13 億美元的紀錄，比 2024 財年末增加了 3 億美元。其中包括超過 7 億美元的現金，其餘部分可透過我們的信貸額度獲得。

This strong position gives us confidence to make investments that will grow our business and strengthens Fluence's reputation as a reliable partner. Looking ahead to fiscal 2026, we intend to invest about $200 million in our business. This includes approximately $100 million in our domestic supply chain and the rest in working capital to support 50% revenue growth.

這一強大的市場地位使我們有信心進行投資，從而發展我們的業務，並鞏固 Fluence 作為可靠合作夥伴的聲譽。展望 2026 財年，我們計劃在公司業務上投資約 2 億美元。這其中包括約 1 億美元用於國內供應鏈，其餘部分為營運資金，以支持 50% 的收入成長。

Turning to slide 16. Today, we are introducing our guidance for fiscal year 2026. We expect revenue in the range of $3.2 billion to $3.6 billion. We began this year with 85% of our guidance midpoint already in our backlog. This strong coverage materially derisks our FY26 revenue compared to the historical level of around 60%. We anticipate realizing 1/3 of this revenue in the first half of the year and the rest in the second half.

翻到第16張幻燈片。今天，我們將發布 2026 財年的業績指引。我們預計營收將在 32 億美元至 36 億美元之間。今年年初，我們已有85%的訂單處於預期中位數階段。與歷史上約 60% 的水平相比，這種強有力的覆蓋率大大降低了我們 2026 財年的收入風險。我們預計今年上半年將實現這筆收入的 1/3，其餘部分將在下半年實現。

We expect our adjusted gross margin to be between 11% and 13%. This range reflects a period of higher costs associated with the rollout of our Gridstack Pro product, which will make up 70% of our 2026 revenue. We anticipate margin will improve over time as we continue to leverage our disciplined execution and our growing scale. We expect operating expenses to grow at less than half of the pace of revenue, consistent with our guidance in prior years. This includes increased spending on sales, marketing and R&D to support future revenue growth.

我們預計調整後的毛利率將在 11% 至 13% 之間。這一區間反映了我們在推出 Gridstack Pro 產品期間成本較高的時期，該產品將占我們 2026 年收入的 70%。我們預計，隨著我們繼續發揮嚴謹的執行力和不斷擴大的規模，利潤率將隨著時間的推移而提高。我們預期營運支出成長速度將不到收入成長速度的一半，這與我們往年的預期一致。這包括增加在銷售、行銷和研發方面的支出，以支持未來的收入成長。

For adjusted EBITDA, our guidance of $40 million to $60 million reflects expected revenue, adjusted gross margin and higher operating costs from planned investments in sales and product initiatives. With respect to ARR, we are initiating guidance of approximately $180 million by the end of fiscal '26, representing over 20% year-over-year increase. In summary, with our strong liquidity, focused execution and robust order book, we are well positioned to deliver on our plan.

對於調整後的 EBITDA，我們給出的 4000 萬美元至 6000 萬美元的預期反映了預期收入、調整後的毛利率以及因計劃投資於銷售和產品舉措而導致的更高運營成本。關於 ARR，我們預計到 2026 財年末將達到約 1.8 億美元，年增超過 20%。總而言之，憑藉我們強大的流動性、專注的執行力和穩健的訂單儲備，我們完全有能力實現我們的計劃。

With that, I would like to turn the call back to Julian for his closing remarks.

接下來，我想把電話轉回朱利安，請他作總結發言。

Thanks, Ahmed. Before we take your questions, I would like to conclude with the following five takeaways. Market leadership. Demand for energy storage is accelerating globally. Fluence is capitalizing on this environment with notable wins such as the 4 gigawatt hour LEAG project in Europe and a rapidly growing pipeline of data center customers and other large-scale deals.

謝謝你，艾哈邁德。在回答大家的問題之前，我想先總結以下五點。市場領導地位。全球對儲能的需求正在加速成長。Fluence 正利用這種環境，取得了顯著的成功，例如歐洲 4 吉瓦時的 LEAG 項目，以及快速成長的資料中心客戶和其他大型交易。

Product leadership. Smartstack is a key differentiator versus the competition. With increased density and a very competitive total cost of ownership, we expect Smartstack to drive a majority of future orders. Operational execution. We have made significant progress to strengthen our domestic supply chain advantage.

產品領導力。Smartstack 是其相對於競爭對手的關鍵差異化優勢。憑藉更高的密度和極具競爭力的總擁有成本，我們預計 Smartstack 將成為未來訂單的主要驅動力。營運執行。我們在加強國內供應鏈優勢方面取得了顯著進展。

We have addressed production issues at the Arizona facility, and all our domestic manufacturers are now on track to meet our expectations. Compliance and readiness. We have strengthened our ability to deliver PFE compliant products to customers with the addition of a second domestic battery cell supplier. We continue to make progress towards OBBA compliance with our Tennessee manufacturer and expect resolution ahead of regulatory deadlines. Looking forward, these achievements position us to maximize stakeholder value by consistently meeting our commitments to customers and shareholders, reinforcing our reputation as a trusted industry leader.

我們已經解決了亞利桑那州工廠的生產問題，我們所有的國內製造商現在都已按計劃達到我們的預期。合規性和準備情況。我們新增了一家國內電池供應商，從而增強了向客戶提供符合 PFE 標準產品的能力。我們與田納西州製造商在遵守《俄亥俄州商業行為法》(OBBA) 方面持續取得進展，並預計在監管期限之前解決問題。展望未來，這些成就使我們能夠透過持續履行對客戶和股東的承諾，最大限度地提高利益相關者的價值，從而鞏固我們作為值得信賴的行業領導者的聲譽。

(Operator Instructions) George Gianarikas, Canaccord.

（操作說明）George Gianarikas，Canaccord。

I'm just curious if you can share any thoughts on what you're seeing in the competitive environment? Any changes there in the US and internationally?

我只是好奇您能否分享一下您對當前競爭環境的看法？美國和國際上有什麼變化嗎？

Internationally, not real change. It's a very competitive market, and the Chinese players continue to drive the competition in a way. The US, the competitive market is changing with -- we see more and more customers that prefer to use US or non-PFE manufacturers, even if they're not required to do it under the -- because the projects are safeguarded under the law or of that provision. So I would say that, but it's an evolving matter that we see coming. So that's kind of today where I see the market.

在國際上，並沒有真正的改變。這是一個競爭非常激烈的市場，而中國企業在某種程度上繼續推動競爭。在美國，競爭激烈的市場正在改變——我們看到越來越多的客戶更喜歡使用美國或非PFE製造商，即使法律沒有要求他們這樣做——因為這些項目受到法律或該條款的保護。所以我會這麼說，但這確實是一個不斷發展的問題，我們可以看到它的發展趨勢。這就是我對當今市場的看法。

And maybe as a follow-up, Ahmed, I think I heard when you were talking about gross margin or margin guidance for '26 that you expect margins to improve over time. Were you referring to gross margins moving beyond the 11% to 13% range you guided for next year, say, in '27, '28?

艾哈邁德，或許我可以補充一點，我好像聽你談到 2026 年的毛利率或利潤率預期時說過，你預計利潤率會隨著時間的推移而提高。您指的是毛利率超過您預測的明年（例如 2027 年、2028 年）的 11% 到 13% 的範圍嗎？

Yes. George, yes, I think our goal is to continue to improve the chart that we have disclosed. I think our goal is to continue to show that chart going forward to show the trajectory and the difference we are making. Our guidance, as you recall, was 10% to 15% in the past. I mean, I think our -- we haven't changed that going forward. So our goal is to continue to improve that trend line.

是的。喬治，是的，我認為我們的目標是繼續改進我們已經公佈的圖表。我認為我們的目標是繼續展示這張圖表，以展示我們的發展軌跡和我們正在取得的成就。如您所知，我們過去的指導價是 10% 到 15%。我的意思是，我認為我們——我們今後不會改變這一點。因此，我們的目標是繼續改善這一趨勢線。

Brian Lee, Goldman Sachs.

Brian Lee，高盛集團。

Kudos on the quarter here. Just I appreciate all the color, Julian, on the data center sizing. It sounds like that opportunity is coming to fruition here pretty quickly given the timeline you expressed. But can you maybe help us a little bit understand, first, the sizing of the market, I guess, if we take the 30 gigawatt hours of data center projects in the pipeline and leads, that's maybe if we estimate maybe $6 billion of the total $23 billion pipeline or in that neighborhood. Is that kind of the way to think about it? And what do you think the overall TAM is and what Fluence's market share could ultimately end up looking like?

本季表現出色，值得稱讚。朱利安，我非常欣賞你對資料中心規模的細緻分析。根據你所描述的時間安排，這個機會似乎很快就要實現了。但能否先幫我們了解市場規模？我想，如果我們把正在籌備和正在洽談中的 30 吉瓦時的資料中心專案算進去，那大概相當於 230 億美元總籌備專案中的 60 億美元左右。是這樣想的嗎？那你認為整體潛在市場規模（TAM）是多少？ Fluence 最終的市佔率會是什麼樣子？

Good question. Let's start with the TAM. Last quarter, we talked about a TAM of around $8 billion. So I think that it's clearly -- the reality is proving that the number is significantly higher. The market has still very, very different numbers. I said we have seen numbers of the 10 times the $8 billion or more than 10 times the $8 billion. It's still unclear. We have to, I think, a little bit more. But clearly, it's a market that is expanding. Of the 30 gigas that we talked about, as of September 30, only 20% of it, one small portion were in our pipeline. The rest were contracts that we started to -- with customers since then.

問得好。我們先從TAM（總市場規模）說起。上個季度，我們討論過市場規模約 80 億美元。所以我認為很明顯——現實正在證明，實際數字要高得多。市場上的數據仍有很大差異。我說過，我們已經看到數字是 80 億美元的 10 倍，或超過 80 億美元的 10 倍。目前情況尚不明朗。我認為，我們還需要做得更多。但很顯然，這是一個正在擴張的市場。截至 9 月 30 日，我們討論的 30 億兆位元組資料中，只有 20% 的資料在我們的管道中，其中一小部分資料正在處理中。其餘的都是我們從那時起開始與客戶簽訂的合約。

And then today, if you ask me today this morning, roughly half of the 30 gig are in pipeline, the other half we're working on it. And what we're looking is -- will they happen in the next two years, where do we see our product is suitable to do what they want. And generally, I think we are fine. So what's a big change from telling you a quarter ago, this is an $8 billion market requiring this very, very complex capabilities to today.

如果今天早上你問我，這 30 個專案裡大約有一半正在籌備中，另一半我們正在努力完成。我們正在觀察的是——這些需求是否會在未來兩年內出現，以及我們的產品是否適合滿足他們的需求。總的來說，我覺得我們一切都好。那麼，與三個月前我們告訴你這是一個價值 80 億美元的市場，需要非常非常複雜的能力相比，今天發生了哪些巨大的變化呢？

I think there's a big change in terms of what we can do for what our technology and Fluence in particular, can do for data centers. And I would say the way to think about it is that there are three needs. One is what we call interconnection flexibility, the ability to manage your -- the energy demand in a way that you can interconnect easier to the grid and you can manage and the distribution companies or the service provider can manage your demand to keep the -- so that is by itself, I would say, today, the biggest driver.

我認為，就我們的技術，特別是 Fluence 技術，能夠為資料中心做的事情而言，已經發生了很大的變化。我認為思考這個問題的方式是，有三種需求。其一是我們所謂的互聯靈活性，即以一種更容易與電網互聯的方式來管理您的能源需求，您可以管理您的需求，而配電公司或服務提供商也可以管理您的需求以保持——因此，我認為，就目前而言，這本身就是最大的驅動因素。

People who want to connect quickly to the grid and want to ensure that the data center meets the availability of the grid and can give the assurances to the grid operator that they will not disrupt the grid. And we can do that today. That's what works. This is -- there's no -- we have no need to improvements in our technology stack to be able to do it. So great.

希望快速接入電網並確保資料中心滿足電網可用性要求，並能向電網營運商保證不會中斷電網的人。我們今天就能做到這一點。這招管用。這意味著——沒有——我們不需要改進我們的技術棧就能做到這一點。太棒了。

The second one that is also in a rising need or rising need is backup power. Historically, we haven't played that game. But with our costs coming down as they are and our ability to -- our density improvements, we can now provide backup power and significantly reduce. I won't say eliminate, but significantly reduce the need for diesel generators. So that's the second need that we're seeing. We can accelerate interconnection to the grid, and we can reduce some of the cost of the diesel generators by providing backup power.

第二個日益需要或正在不斷增長的需求是備用電源。從歷史上看，我們從未玩過那種遊戲。但隨著成本的下降和我們能力的提高——密度的提高，我們現在可以提供備用電源並大幅降低成本。我不會說要完全消除，但要大幅減少對柴油發電機的需求。這是我們看到的第二個需求。我們可以加快併網速度，並透過提供備用電源來降低柴油發電機的成本。

The third one is the one we have talked about in our last call, this power quality, this idea that we can -- we will have to manage the variability of energy demand by AI data centers. That -- if you ask me today, that hasn't been -- the first thing is that there are other technologies that can address that. That's the first one. The second one is that it is a need that is not as big as we thought it was going to be. So it's probably around that $8 billion number. And it is something that data centers, when they look at what they're doing, their speed to power is a much more important element than this one because the other one they can manage in some other way.

第三個問題是我們在上次通話中討論過的，即電力質量，以及我們可以——我們將來必須管理人工智慧資料中心能源需求的波動性。如果今天你問我，我認為問題還沒解決──首先，還有其他技術可以解決這個問題。這是第一個。第二點是，這種需求並沒有我們想像的那麼大。所以大概就在80億美元左右。資料中心在審視自身業務時，會發現供電速度比供電速度更重要，因為供電速度可以透過其他方式來控制。

We are committed to delivering the three products. The interconnection flexibility to accelerate interconnection, the backup power capabilities. And these two that we can do today, and we're very well positioned to do. Smartstack is the densest project in the world. It is a project that because of the (inaudible), the way we are designed provides very good safety, better than, I would say, very, very good.

我們承諾交付這三款產品。互連彈性，可加快互連速度；備用電源能力。而這兩件事我們今天就能做，而且我們完全有能力做到。Smartstack是世界上密度最高的項目。這是一個由於（聽不清楚）而設計出來的項目，它提供了非常好的安全性，可以說，比任何事物都好。

And then third, our cybersecurity, our total control on software, our ability to ensure that no one else can get it. So the power quality is something we're working on with our inverter manufacturers. We'll get it resolved quickly, but it's still a work in progress. But we thought that was going to be a gating item the backup power is going to be a gating item for us to serve this market. That's no longer the case.

第三，我們的網路安全，我們對軟體的完全控制，我們確保其他人無法取得它的能力。所以，電源品質是我們正在與逆變器製造商共同努力解決的問題。我們會盡快解決這個問題，但這仍然是一個進行中的工作。但我們認為備用電源會成為我們服務這個市場的一大障礙。情況已經不同了。

I would say it's a cherry on the top. If you can deliver the last two and this one is great, but it's not a gating item. So great market, multiples of what we told you in terms of what we do, and we don't need to do a major technology. And my last point, we can -- we don't have a clear view today. This is just starting on how much we can capture.

我覺得這簡直是錦上添花。如果你能完成最後兩項，那就太好了，但這並非必要條件。所以市場潛力巨大，是我們之前告訴你們的規模的數倍，我們不需要進行重大技術革新。最後一點，我們——我們今天還沒有清晰的願景。這只是我們能夠捕捉到的資訊量的開始。

What I will say, we are very well positioned to do safety, density. Some of our competitors are claiming density, which is 20% to 25% less than what we can do. So that tells you we can do very, very well, and we are -- we have -- we hired Jeff. Jeff comes with knowing how to serve this market. He's been one of the structure, go and get this done. And this is not only happening in the US. This is a global phenomenon. We have in our pipeline. It's mostly US today, but we're starting to see pipeline coming both out of Australia and Europe.

我想說的是，我們在安全和密度方面都處於非常有利的地位。我們的一些競爭對手聲稱他們的密度比我們低 20% 到 25%。這說明我們能做得非常好，而且我們也確實做到了——我們聘請了傑夫。傑夫懂得如何服務這個市場。他一直是團隊的支柱之一，去把這件事完成吧。而且這種情況並非只發生在美國。這是一個全球性現象。我們正在籌備中。目前主要集中在美國，但我們開始看到澳洲和歐洲也有管道輸送過來。

So sorry for the long answer, but that we're excited about this opportunity.

很抱歉回答這麼長，但我們對這個機會感到非常興奮。

Yes. No, I can definitely sense that. I appreciate all the color. Maybe just one more question on that topic. From a P&L timing and impact perspective, can you give us a sense of the conversion timeline for this data center pipeline? And is any of it embedded in your revenue guide for fiscal '26? And maybe just lastly, margins relative to core margins. Are these going to be higher margin just given the customer subset you're dealing with? Curious on the impact on margins as well.

是的。不，我確實能感覺到。我喜歡這些色彩。關於這個話題，或許我還能再問一個問題。從損益時間和影響的角度來看，您能否大致介紹一下該資料中心管道的轉換時間表？這些內容是否已納入你們2026財年的營收預期？最後，或許還要考慮利潤率與核心利潤率的相對關係。鑑於你所面對的客戶群，這些產品的利潤率會更高嗎？我也很想知道這對利潤率會有什麼影響。

I'll say that of the 30 gigas, half are '26 order intake, half of our '27, give or take, and most likely projects that will be -- will convert into order intake later in the year, not revenue for '26. We have to see how much revenue for '27 is unclear. In terms of margin, this is a new segment. I don't want to talk about it publicly. But what I will say is that we can provide a lot of value to our customers, a lot of value. We can deliver our product quickly, give them the confidence on our security, the best density. And we are -- and so we are very confident that we can create a lot of value to our customers. That's where we're concentrated.

我想說，這 30 億位元組中，一半是 2026 年的訂單量，一半是 2027 年的訂單量，上下浮動，而且很可能是一些項目——這些項目將在今年晚些時候轉化為訂單量，而不是 2026 年的收入。2027年的收入狀況尚不明確，我們還需要進一步了解。從利潤率來看，這是一個新的細分市場。我不想公開談論這件事。但我可以肯定的是，我們可以為我們的客戶提供很多價值，很多價值。我們可以快速交付產品，讓他們對我們的安全性和最佳密度充滿信心。而我們正是如此——因此我們非常有信心能為客戶創造許多價值。這就是我們關注的重點。

Dylan Nassano, Wolfe Research.

迪倫·納薩諾，沃爾夫研究中心。

Just want to go back to the Q4 kind of underperformance versus the guide. I know that in the previous quarter, manufacturing delays kind of came up, but it sounded like maybe those were resolved and you were operating on schedule again. So I just want to check what kind of changed between the last call and now? And like are these incremental kind of problems that popped up? And anything you can give us just to kind of boost confidence going into the quarter that these are kind of resolved at this point?

我只想回到第四季業績低於預期的情況。我知道上個季度生產方面出現了一些延誤，但聽起來這些問題可能已經解決，你們又開始按計劃運作了。所以我想確認一下，從上次通話到現在，究竟發生了哪些變化？這些是逐漸出現的問題嗎？您能否提供一些信息，以增強我們對本季度的信心，讓我們相信這些問題目前已經解決？

So we have -- thanks, Dylan, and clearly, we're disappointed with what happened. I mean, first thing, but I don't want to say sound apologetic in what I'm telling you. But -- so what do we have? We have our suppliers in the US, many, but I say the three main suppliers. Out of the three main suppliers, two are doing great. I would say even more, the two that have the more complex process are doing very well. So we're very happy, ahead of schedule, doing wonderful, no problem. We have a less complex process, which is enclosure manufacturing.

所以，謝謝你，迪倫，很顯然，我們對發生的事情感到失望。我的意思是，首先，但我不想在跟你說話的時候聽起來像是在道歉。但是──那我們究竟擁有什麼呢？我們在美國有很多供應商，但主要有三家。三大供應商中，有兩家表現優異。我甚至可以說，工藝更複雜的那兩家公司做得非常好。所以我們很高興，進度超前，一切順利，沒有任何問題。我們的製程相對簡單，即外殼製造。

When we met last quarter, we had a plan that was going to be able -- going to allow the delivery of our revenue for the year, but that it required a major staffing process that I think we underestimated the ability to staff that facility. I think that today, that we have done two things.

上個季度我們開會時，制定了一個計劃，旨在實現我們今年的收入目標，但這需要大量的人員配備，我認為我們低估了該設施的人員配備能力。我認為今天我們做了兩件事。

We have clearly gone out and continue staffing and preparing people, and we're essentially done in terms of staffing. There's still some people, but it is essentially done. And we have made some changes in the way we are with our contract manufacturer to ensure that we meet our -- that we need to facilitate the manufacturing process. That's the right word. And I think the two combinations, having staffed the place, and we're talking about a significant number of people.

我們已經明確地繼續進行人員配備和培訓工作，人員配備方面基本上已經完成。雖然還有一些人，但基本上已經完成了。我們對與合約製造商的合作方式進行了一些改變，以確保我們滿足自身需求，從而促進生產過程。用詞恰當。我認為這兩種組合，再加上人員配備，就能滿足需求，而且我們談論的是相當多的人。

This is roughly 500, 600 people that we needed for that facility to work with three shifts and all of that. We were fully -- essentially fully staffed. And with the changes in operations, we are meeting our numbers. I think we are -- we expect to do -- we were doing at the end of last quarter, 1.5 closures per day. We are already at 5, and we are ramping up, and I don't know that we will be able to meet our numbers very well.

我們需要大約 500 到 600 人來維持工廠的正常運轉，包括三班倒等等。我們人員配備齊全，基本上是滿員了。隨著營運方式的改變，我們達到了業績目標。我認為我們正在——我們預計會做到——就像上個季度末我們做到的那樣，每天關閉 1.5 家門市。我們已經達到 5 人，而且正在加緊生產，我不知道我們能否很好地完成我們的目標。

So we are very confident today. Unfortunately, we did not meet what we could not deliver on the revenue, and we are disappointed, but we learned very quickly. Our operation and manufacturing team is very, very good and they have put in place their corrective measures to this.

所以我們今天非常有信心。遺憾的是，我們在營收方面未能達到預期目標，我們對此感到失望，但我們很快就吸取了教訓。我們的營運和製造團隊非常優秀，他們已經採取了糾正措施來解決這個問題。

Yes. Dylan, the only thing I would add is I think that from our perspective, as Julian said, yes, because of the labor shortage, we were roughly 1.5 containers per day. Fast forward, we added 500 people. We are now running at five containers per day and which is in line with our expectations for the quarter. So we feel pretty good where we are. But equally importantly, I think we pulled our levers to deliver on our profitability commitments. As you saw, the margin and the EBITDA, we are in line with our top end of our range.

是的。迪倫，我唯一要補充的是，我認為從我們的角度來看，正如朱利安所說，是的，由於勞動力短缺，我們每天大約只能生產 1.5 個貨櫃。後來，我們又增加了 500 人。我們現在每天的貨櫃吞吐量為五個，這符合我們對本季的預期。所以我們對現狀感到相當滿意。但同樣重要的是，我認為我們已經採取了各種措施來實現我們的獲利承諾。正如你所看到的，利潤率和 EBITDA 都達到了我們預期範圍的上限。

Got it. I appreciate that. And then my follow-up, I just wanted to check on this new cell supplier. Can you just give us any more color around how much incremental capacity this may get you? Any -- are you prepaying for any sales like similar to what you did with AESC? And yes, so mostly just curious like does this get you net additional capacity to serve the US market?

知道了。我很感激。然後，我的後續問題是，我想確認一下這家新的電池供應商的情況。您能否詳細說明一下，這能為您帶來多少新增產能？你們是否像之前與AESC合作那樣，對任何銷售進行預付款？是的，我主要是好奇，這樣做是否能為你們帶來額外的淨產能來服務美國市場？

Yes, I can take that question. Dylan, yes, I think this gives us enough capacity to serve our projected loads for the next couple of years. So we feel pretty good what we have signed. And in terms of the deposits, no, no material deposit commitments. I think it's just as we get the deliveries, we make those payments.

是的，我可以回答這個問題。迪倫，是的，我認為這足以滿足我們未來幾年的預期需求。所以我們對簽署的協議感到非常滿意。至於保證金方面，沒有，沒有實質的保證金承諾。我認為就是我們收到貨物後，再進行付款。

Ameet Thakkar, BMO Capital Markets.

阿米特·塔卡爾，BMO資本市場。

I just wanted to kind of go back to kind of the implied EBITDA margin for this year versus last year. I mean it looks like the EBITDA margin is down, and I know the gross margin is also kind of down sequentially. But it looks like the implied ASPs in your bookings are actually up pretty significantly kind of quarter-over-quarter. I was just wondering if you could kind of walk us through why, I guess, the gross margin is lower year-over-year versus kind of the rolling 12 months.

我只是想回顧一下今年與去年相比的隱含 EBITDA 利潤率。我的意思是，看起來 EBITDA 利潤率下降了，而且我知道毛利率也比去年同期下降了。但看起來，你們預訂的隱含平均售價實際上比去年同期大幅上漲。我只是想問一下，您能否解釋一下為什麼毛利率同比下降，而過去 12 個月的毛利率卻下降了。

So I think the ASPs, your question is, yes, I think is down, but no surprise. I think ASPs are down roughly, I think, give or take, 10% or so. In terms of the gross margin, I think we basically are pretty much in line. I think the EBITDA margin as you ask, is obviously, there's an operating leverage because volume was less. Last year, our overall revenue was $2.7 billion. This is $2.3 billion.

所以，關於ASP，你的問題是，是的，我認為它下降了，但這並不令人驚訝。我認為平均售價下降了大約 10% 左右。就毛利率而言，我認為我們基本上符合預期。我認為，正如你所問的，EBITDA利潤率顯然存在經營槓桿效應，因為銷售量減少了。去年，我們的總收入為27億美元。這是23億美元。

So yes, I think -- but the more important thing, frankly, from our perspective is as we grow the top line, we will benefit from the operating leverage and our goal is to continue to grow EBITDA. Obviously, that is what the shareholders care. At the end of the day, top line is great, but at the end of the day, that should translate into the bottom line. And that's what we, as a management team also are on the same page. So stay tuned. I think our goal is to continue to improve the top line and also the bottom line.

所以，是的，我認為——但坦白說，從我們的角度來看，更重要的是，隨著營收的成長，我們將受益於營運槓桿，我們的目標是繼續提高 EBITDA。顯然，這才是股東們真正關心的。歸根究底，營收固然重要，但最終，營收應該轉化為利潤。而我們管理團隊也對此達成了一致意見。敬請期待。我認為我們的目標是繼續提高營收和利潤。

And then I know you kind of talked about a couple of kind of uses of liquidity for next year. But just in terms of kind of like the kind of the free cash flow expectations relative to that $50 million kind of EBITDA guidance at the midpoint. Any kind of, I guess, guidepost there, please?

我知道您也談到了明年流動性的幾種用途。但就自由現金流預期而言，相對於 5,000 萬美元的 EBITDA 指引中位數而言，情況如何呢？請問那裡有什麼路標之類的指示牌嗎？

So yes, I think the $50 million EBITDA, I talked about the working capital, roughly $100 million as our revenue is growing by from $2.3 billion to $3.4 billion. So $1 billion or so of additional -- as if you recall, we said in the past, working capital needs are roughly 10% of our growth in revenue. So about $100 million of working capital needs and then $100 million of investments in the domestic content, as I mentioned in my remarks. Beyond that, we don't have any material commitments. So I think next year, our goal is to be free cash flow positive as our revenue grows and our EBITDA grows. So I think that is the goal.

所以，是的，我認為 5000 萬美元的 EBITDA，我之前提到的營運資本，大約是 1 億美元，因為我們的收入從 23 億美元增長到 34 億美元。因此，還需要大約 10 億美元——正如您所知，我們過去曾說過，營運資金需求大約是我們收入成長的 10%。正如我在演講中提到的，我們需要大約 1 億美元的營運資金，以及 1 億美元的國內生產投資。除此之外，我們沒有任何實質的承諾。所以我認為明年我們的目標是隨著營收和 EBITDA 的成長，實現自由現金流為正。所以我認為這就是目標。

But this year, $50 million is the EBITDA, but then we have working capital needs of $100 million. But I think more importantly or equally importantly is liquidity will remain very robust with this working capital use. So our goal is to continue to strengthen our balance sheet with growing cash and our credit facilities. So we feel pretty good where we're going to land at the end of the year.

但今年，我們的 EBITDA 為 5,000 萬美元，而營運資金需求卻高達 1 億美元。但我認為更重要的是，或者說同樣重要的是，透過這種營運資金的使用，流動性將保持非常強勁。因此，我們的目標是繼續透過增加現金和信貸額度來加強我們的資產負債表。所以我們對年底的最終結果感覺相當不錯。

Julien Dumoulin-Smith, Jefferies.

Julien Dumoulin-Smith，傑富瑞集團。

Nicely done this quarter. Just following up on a little bit about some of the margin commentary and just filtering that back in with AESC. Can you comment a little bit on how you think about margins being tethered to whatever happens with respect to your domestic supply, whether that's with AESC or incremental supply. Does that -- is that part of the commentary about margin improvement?

本季表現出色。只是想稍微補充一些關於邊際評論的內容，並將其與 AESC 的討論結合。您能否稍微談談您如何看待利潤率與國內供應情況（無論是AESC還是增量供應）掛鉤的問題？那——那是關於利潤率提升的評論的一部分嗎？

And then related, can you just give a little bit more of a detailed update around AESC specifically? I know that you've sort of quote-unquote procured a backup here, if you will. But how is that relationship evolving here? How would you frame out volumes from one side or the other side of that supply arrangement now at this point?

另外，能否具體詳細介紹AESC的最新情況？我知道你已經在這裡做了某種程度的「備份」。但這種關係在這裡是如何演變的呢？現在，您會如何從供應安排的一方或另一方的角度來界定交易量？

In terms of margins, in terms of AESC, I mean, any deal we do, we might do with AESC will be accretive. So that's the way you need to think about it. We -- when and if it happens, we'll communicate what it means in terms of margins. And I think that Ameet's point was more general. When you looked at our performance -- at least since I got here, we got a company with negative margins of 4%.

就利潤率而言，就 AESC 而言，我的意思是，我們與 AESC 達成的任何交易都將帶來收益。所以你應該這樣想。如果這種情況發生，我們會就利潤率方面的影響進行溝通。我認為Ameet的觀點更具普遍性。從我們的業績來看——至少自從我來到這裡以來——我們公司一直處於負 4% 的利潤率狀態。

We're now on a running average of 12-month average, we're now at 13.7%. So my point is we all here want to commit to continue showing a growing line. That's kind of what we're doing, and we're finding ways to do it today and continue to work on it. That was more of that coming in that direction. In terms of AESC, what I would say is that we are -- meeting the OB3, OBBA compliance is a complex process.

我們現在以 12 個月的平均值計算，目前為 13.7%。所以我的觀點是，我們所有人都希望繼續保持成長動能。這正是我們正在做的事情，我們正在尋找實現這一目標的方法，並將繼續努力。那邊還有更多類似的情況發生。就 AESC 而言，我想說的是，滿足 OB3、OBBA 合規性是一個複雜的過程。

We have been able to make a lot of progress. And generally, you can look at it from three areas. You need to meet the IP. And I think we have a solution that's done and we can -- the IP in that -- for that production facility meets the criteria of OBBBA3 -- OBBA or meet the criteria.

我們取得了很大進展。一般來說，你可以從三個方面來看這個問題。你需要滿足IP位址要求。我認為我們已經找到了解決方案，而且我們可以——其中的智慧財產權——該生產設施符合 OBBBA3——OBBA 的標準，或符合這些標準。

Then we have the material systems, the need that the suppliers of the facility cannot come from PFP suppliers. We have a plan that will deliver that. And then we have the ownership. And the ownership is the one where we are still debating. We are making good progress.

然後是物料系統，即該設施的供應商不能來自 PFP 供應商。我們有計劃實現這一目標。然後我們就擁有了所有權。所有權問題我們仍在爭論中。我們取得了良好進展。

We're committed to resolve it, but we haven't -- have not reached a final deal. What we have always said, we're not the only option in town. So there are other ways that they can resolve this issue. And I don't want to -- we clearly believe that we are the best option from my point of view, but they can do something different.

我們致力於解決這個問題，但我們還沒有——還沒有達成最終協議。我們一直都說，我們並不是鎮上唯一的選擇。所以他們還有其他方法可以解決這個問題。我不想——從我的角度來看，我們顯然認為我們是最佳選擇，但他們可以採取不同的做法。

So -- and then on the new supplier, I mean, what it is, is we're generally diversified suppliers. That's a rule of life. So we're diversified suppliers. And the demand we see is very big. So we need to continue to meet the growing demand. So our philosophy of diversified suppliers and the growing demand call for the second supplier. So that's where we are. We are -- we see this as one of our competitive advantages. We are a first mover in this area, and we want to continue being the first mover. So that's the reason for our strategy.

所以——關於新的供應商，我的意思是，我們通常是多元化的供應商。這是生活法則。所以我們是多元化供應商。我們看到的需求非常大。因此，我們需要繼續滿足不斷增長的需求。因此，我們多元化供應商的理念以及不斷增長的需求需要第二個供應商。這就是我們目前的處境。我們認為這是我們的競爭優勢之一。我們是這一領域的先行者，我們希望繼續保持先行者的地位。這就是我們制定這項策略的原因。

So just to clarify that real quickly, basically, your current plan and current margin expectations assume that you're served with AESC. And would it be improved or detrimental to shift the supply, if I heard you right or understand.

所以，簡單澄清一下，基本上，您目前的計劃和目前的利潤預期都假設您由 AESC 提供服務。如果我理解正確的話，轉移供應量會改善現狀還是造成損害？

Yes. I mean I will say the following. The -- as I said, a potential deal with AESC will be accretive to the current numbers. That answer I can provide.

是的。我的意思是，我會說以下幾點。正如我所說，與AESC達成潛在交易將有助於提升目前的表現。這個問題我可以回答。

All right. You're already here cutting it. Okay. Understood.

好的。你已經在這裡切菜了。好的。明白了。

No, I'm not cutting that. Having done the deals yet.

不，我不會削減那部分。交易還沒完成。

Okay. All right. Got it. No, that's why I asked. I appreciate it.

好的。好的。知道了。不，所以我才問的。謝謝。

David Arcaro, Morgan Stanley.

大衛‧阿卡羅，摩根士丹利。

In terms of the data center pipeline, I was curious just to get your -- what you're currently seeing. Is this bringing larger project sizes versus your current backlog? Is it more US heavy in terms of region where you're seeing that demand? And would be curious what kind of duration you might be exploring for those types of projects?

就資料中心管道而言，我很好奇你目前看到的情況。與你目前的待辦事項相比，這是否會帶來更大的專案規模？就您觀察到的需求而言，美國市場是否更為集中？我很想知道，對於這類項目，你們可能會探索什麼樣的持續時間？

Yes. I'll say that generally, we talked during the call with one of the big drivers of the elasticity of demand where you can see the elasticity of demand for our technology as prices has come down has been how projects are getting bigger. And we have today 38 projects that are 1 gigawatt hour or more. I don't think that the data centers are bigger, naturally bigger, they are in line with what we have when you look at it, some are smaller, some are bigger, but generally in line.

是的。我想說的是，總的來說，我們在電話會議中談到了需求彈性的一大驅動因素，你可以看到，隨著價格下降，我們技術的需求彈性也在增加，而專案規模也在擴大。目前我們有 38 個專案裝置容量達到或超過 1 吉瓦時。我不認為資料中心的規模更大，自然而然地，它們與我們現有的規模是一致的，有些較小，有些較大，但總體上是一致的。

In terms of where geographically today, I will say the majority come from the US, and we have seen some -- the pipeline development in APAC and Europe is a little bit behind, but -- so that we see what we will see this as a global market. So that's kind of our view. In terms of duration, it depends on the use case, we see from two to long-duration storage, both the whole -- nothing below two, but that's where we are.

就目前的地理分佈而言，我認為大部分來自美國，亞太和歐洲的管道開發稍微落後一些，但是——因此我們可以看到，我們將看到這是一個全球市場。這就是我們的看法。就持續時間而言，這取決於使用情況，我們看到從 2 到長期存儲，兩者都是整體——沒有低於 2 的，但這就是我們目前的情況。

Okay. Got it. That's helpful. And then I was just curious about strong order intake in the quarter -- in this past quarter. I was wondering if you could talk to what the -- whether there's a common driver there that you're seeing. It doesn't seem to be data center growth just yet, if I'm interpreting that correctly. So what are you seeing in terms of what drove the strong rebound?

好的。知道了。那很有幫助。然後，我就很好奇上季訂單量為何如此強勁。我想知道你是否可以和他們談談——你是否看到某個常見的司機。如果我理解正確的話，目前看來這還不是資料中心成長的問題。那麼，您認為是什麼因素推動了強勁的反彈？

It was Australia the big driver of the strong quarter in '20, the strong order intake. We have these deals in Australia, as you know, that we were delayed in '25. We signed them all and they all -- most of them occur late in the year. So that's a big driver of it. But we see for '26, the US being the big driver and a little bit of a change. And we'll see some -- I expect to see some data center stuff happening in '26 late in the year, most likely.

2020 年第一季強勁的訂單量主要來自澳洲。如你所知，我們在澳洲的這些交易在 2025 年被推遲了。我們全部簽了約，而且大部分合約都在年底進行。所以這是主要驅動因素。但我們認為，2026 年美國將成為主要驅動力，並且會發生一些變化。我們會看到一些——我預計在 2026 年年底，很可能會看到一些資料中心方面的事情發生。

Mark Strouse, J.P. Morgan.

馬克‧斯特勞斯，摩根大通。

I just wanted to go back to the second domestic content supplier. Ahmed, I think you said that your needs are met for the next couple of years. But I just wanted to clarify, is that capacity available today? Or is there kind of a ramp period that we should be expecting?

我只是想換回第二家國內內容供應商。艾哈邁德，我想你說過你未來幾年的需求都能被滿足。但我只是想確認一下，目前是否還有這樣的產能？或者說，是否存在一個我們應該預期的過渡期？

No. I think the capacity is available -- will be available in about next 10, 11 months. But I think the capacity that we need to serve our load, as we discussed during the call, we have about 85%, 90% of our revenue in our backlog, and we have already secured the capacity for that. So we don't need this capacity, but we are now locking in additional capacity to basically secure our future business.

不。我認為產能是可用的——大約在未來 10 到 11 個月內可以使用。但我認為，正如我們在電話會議中討論的那樣，我們需要足夠的產能來滿足我們的訂單需求，我們大約 85% 到 90% 的收入都來自積壓訂單，而且我們已經確保了這些訂單所需的產能。所以我們並不需要這種產能，但我們現在鎖定額外的產能，基本上是為了確保我們未來的業務。

Okay. And then on the long duration side, is Smartstack the only go-to-market solution that you have there? Are you potentially looking to partner up maybe being a systems integrator for some of the more emerging technologies that are out there?

好的。那麼，從長遠角度來看，Smartstack 是你們唯一的市場推廣解決方案嗎？您是否有可能尋求合作夥伴，例如成為一些新興技術的系統整合商？

Smartstack will be our accelerator. What we're going to do, and we believe that very competitive. So it will be Smartstack.

Smartstack 將成為我們的加速器。我們將要做的事情，我們相信會非常有競爭力。所以它會是Smartstack。

Christine Cho, Barclays.

Christine Cho，巴克萊銀行。

With respect to the data centers, you mentioned the three different ways that you can serve data centers, the interconnection backup and power quality. Would you be able to sort of like break down the opportunity set here and maybe rank it? Like is half of the opportunity for power quality and backup is the smallest? And for duration, you mentioned two hours is the low end. I'm assuming that's for power quality. Is it similar for those who are interested in getting storage for interconnection purposes?

關於資料中心，您提到了為資料中心提供服務的三種不同方式、互連備份和電源品質。您能否把這裡的機會做一些分析，並進行排序？例如，電力品質和備用電源的機會只有一半是最小的嗎？至於時長，你提到兩小時是最低限度。我猜這是為了保證電能品質。對於那些出於互聯目的而尋求儲存設備的人來說，情況是否類似？

Yes. First point, that's what -- that I would like to highlight. So we have these three needs. What's wonderful about our technology and now talking about battery storage, not necessarily ourselves, is that we can stack up these three needs with the same technology solution. While the other technology solutions can do one or the other, but they cannot do what we do, which is facilitate interconnection, do backup power and do quality. And that makes the difference.

是的。首先，我想強調一點。所以我們有這三個需求。我們的技術（現在我們談論的是電池儲能，不一定是指我們自己）的奇妙之處在於，我們可以用同一種技術解決方案來滿足這三個需求。雖然其他技術解決方案可以做到其中之一，但它們無法做到我們所做的，即促進互聯互通、提供備用電源和保證品質。這就是差別所在。

And I think that's what makes our solution so attractive to our data centers. We can resolve three problems with one technology. So that's very, very good. In terms of the two hours, these are -- depends on the need of the customer. So I cannot really put out -- can tell you this is what drives it.

我認為這正是我們的解決方案對資料中心如此具有吸引力的原因。我們可以用一項技術解決三個問題。那真是太好了。至於這兩個小時，具體情況取決於客戶的需求。所以我真的無法透露——我可以告訴你這就是它的驅動力。

But generally, you're right on the view that backup power and interconnection flexibility will tend to be longer duration, while power quality will tend to be shorter duration. Generally that's true. But I think you need to think about this differently. Is the ability to serve the three needs with the same infrastructure. That's what we are aiming for because that's where I think that will make our technology, the preferred technology solution to resolve to address these problems.

但總的來說，你的觀點是正確的，備用電源和互連靈活性往往持續時間更長，而電源品質往往持續時間更短。一般來說確實如此。但我認為你需要換個角度來思考這個問題。能否利用同一套基礎設施滿足這三種需求。這就是我們的目標，因為我認為這將使我們的技術成為解決這些問題的首選技術方案。

Okay. And then if you are able to vertically integrate with AESC, how should we think about what the mix will be between the AESC supply and the second supplier? And with this second supplier, is a contract for a set amount of time? And then lastly, for your international projects, are you also diversifying your cell suppliers there?

好的。那麼，如果您能夠與 AESC 進行垂直整合，我們應該如何考慮 AESC 的供應和第二供應商之間的組合？那麼，與第二家供應商簽訂的合約是否規定了合約期限？最後，對於您的國際項目，您是否也在當地實現電池供應商多元化？

We are -- we've always been diversified internationally. We're just being diversified locally. My view on this is that it is -- we convert any battery into a great technology solution. That's what we do as a company. So who the battery supplier is not as relevant. It shouldn't be as relevant. My customers shouldn't care and my financial investors shouldn't care. What I -- the real value we bring is the ability to make any battery great, no matter what. So that was my answer to it. I don't know what the mix will be. But as I said, for my customers, it will be irrelevant from a product delivery and capabilities, what batteries are produced.

我們一直以來都是國際多角化經營的。我們只是在本地進行多元化經營。我的看法是，我們可以將任何電池轉化為偉大的技術解決方案。這就是我們公司所做的。所以電池供應商是誰就沒那麼重要。它不應該那麼重要。我的客戶不應該在意，我的投資人也不該在意。我們——我們帶來的真正價值在於，無論如何，我們都能讓任何電池變得出色。這就是我的回答。我不知道最終的配比會是什麼樣子。但正如我所說，對於我的客戶而言，從產品交付和性能的角度來看，生產什麼電池都無關緊要。

But for you, doesn't it matter in that if you are using AESC and you're vertically integrated, it's higher margin for you versus --

但對你來說，如果你使用AESC並且是垂直整合型企業，那麼你的利潤率豈不是更高嗎？--

I care about my customers. That's what I lose. Yes we will figure out that part. But the important thing is the ability to (inaudible) the route to success in meeting your customer needs. That's what drives the company.

我關心我的顧客。這就是我失去的。是的，我們會解決那部分的問題。但重要的是能夠（聽不清楚）找到滿足客戶需求的成功之路。這就是公司發展的動力。

But you're right, we might be able to get a capture -- if we were to be vertically integrated, there will be more margin on one or the other, but my real -- the way to win is meet the customer needs. That's the way to win. Not -- if you try to optimize something else, you get -- you lose the side. Your customer needs and that drives profitability, that drives margin, that drives everything.

但你說得對，如果我們進行垂直整合，或許能夠獲得一些市場份額——這樣一來，在其中一個環節上就會有更大的利潤空間，但我真正認為——取勝之道在於滿足客戶的需求。這就是取勝之道。不——如果你試圖優化其他東西，你就會——你會失去這一部分。客戶需求驅動獲利能力，驅動利潤率，驅動一切。

Justin Clare, ROTH Capital.

Justin Clare，ROTH Capital。

So I just wanted to follow up on the second source of the cell supply here. So I think you mentioned it will be available in the next 10 to 11 months. So just at the beginning of the year, do you expect to depend on the source of cells from AESC for domestic US projects until that second source is available? And then so I'm just trying to get at how important is it for you to resolve the challenges with the FIAC restrictions by early calendar 2026 in terms of thinking through the outlook for the year?

所以我想跟進一下第二個細胞來源的情況。所以我想你之前提到過，它將在未來 10 到 11 個月內上市。所以，在年初的時候，您是否預計在第二個電池來源可用之前，美國國內專案將繼續依賴 AESC 的電池供應？所以，我只是想了解，就您對2026年初的展望而言，解決FIAC限制帶來的挑戰對您來說有多重要？

Very, very important. That's what I will say. We have a plan, and we've been working on it, and it's very, very important to do it. So that's what I can tell you. I mean, we will get it done.

非常非常重要。這就是我要說的。我們已經制定了計劃，並且一直在努力執行，執行起來非常非常重要。這就是我能告訴你的全部內容。我的意思是，我們肯定能完成這件事。

Okay. Got it. Good to hear. And then just a follow-up on the data center opportunity. I was wondering, are you seeing -- or could you talk about the ability to kind of successfully accelerate interconnection with storage being added to data centers? Is this being done today? Or do you need the regulatory framework to change in order to support this use case? And then wondering what the timing of orders associated with that use case might be?

好的。知道了。很高興聽到這個消息。然後，我想跟進一下資料中心方面的機會。我想知道，您是否看到了——或者您能否談談隨著資料中心儲存的增加，如何成功加速互連的能力？今天會做這件事嗎？或者，是否需要改變監管框架才能支援這種使用場景？然後，人們會想知道與該用例相關的訂單時間表是什麼？

We haven't signed any of these contracts yet. So this is a work in progress, but we believe we can -- we have the ability to ensure that the data centers meet the interconnection restrictions that they have. So I would say yes. I don't think you need a major regulatory change. It's just ensure that you meet whatever the grid is offering.

我們尚未簽署任何合約。所以這項工作還在進行中，但我們相信我們能夠——我們有能力確保資料中心滿足其所規定的互連限制。所以我會說是的。我認為不需要進行重大的監理改革。只需確保滿足電網提供的所有條件即可。

Ladies and gentlemen, that's all the time we have for our Q&A session. I will now turn it back to Chris for any closing comments.

女士們先生們，我們的問答環節到此結束。現在我將把發言權交還給克里斯，請他作總結陳詞。

Thanks, Olivia, and thanks to everyone for participating on today's call. We look forward to speaking with you again by first quarter results, if not before then. And please do -- looking forward to meeting with everyone as your questions arise.

謝謝奧莉維亞，也謝謝今天所有參加電話會議的各位。我們期待在第一季業績公佈時再次與您溝通，如果可能的話，更早一些。請儘管提問——期待與大家見面交流。

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation, and you may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與，您現在可以斷開連接了。