First Business Financial Services Inc (FBIZ) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon. Welcome to the First Business Financial Services First Quarter 2025 Earnings Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) Please note this event is being recorded Friday, April 15, 2025.

午安.歡迎參加第一商業金融服務公司 2025 年第一季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）請注意，此事件將於 2025 年 4 月 15 日星期五進行記錄。

I would now like to turn the conference over to First Business Financial Services Inc. CEO, Corey Chambas. Please go ahead.

現在，我想將會議交給 First Business Financial Services Inc. 執行長 Corey Chambas。請繼續。

Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us. We appreciate your time and your interest in First Business Bank. Joining me today is our President and Chief Operating Officer, Dave Seiler; and our CFO, Brian Spielmann. Today, we'll discuss our financial performance, along with some operational highlights, followed by a Q&A session.

大家下午好，感謝大家的參與。我們感謝您抽出時間並關注第一商業銀行。今天與我一起出席的還有我們的總裁兼營運長 Dave Seiler 和我們的財務長 Brian Spielmann。今天，我們將討論我們的財務表現以及一些營運亮點，然後進行問答環節。

I'd like to direct you to our first quarter earnings release and supplemental earnings call slides, which are available through our website at ir.firstbusiness.bank. We encourage you to review these along with our other investor materials.

謹此向您推薦我們第一季的財報和補充財報電話會議投影片，您可以透過我們的網站 ir.firstbusiness.bank 取得。我們建議您同時閱讀這些投影片以及我們的其他投資者資料。

Before we begin, please note, this call may include forward-looking statements, and the company's actual results may differ materially from those indicated in any forward-looking statements. Important factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those indicated in the forward-looking statements are listed in the earnings release and the company's most recent annual report on Form 10-K and as may be supplemented from time to time in the company's other filings with the SEC, all of which are expressly incorporated herein by reference. There, you can also find information related to any non-GAAP financial measures we discuss on today's call, including reconciliations of such measures.

在我們開始之前，請注意，本次電話會議可能包含前瞻性陳述，且本公司的實際結果可能與任何前瞻性陳述中所示的結果有重大差異。可能導致實際結果與前瞻性陳述中所示的結果存在重大差異的重要因素已在收益報告和公司最新的 10-K 表年度報告中列出，並可能在公司向美國證券交易委員會提交的其他文件中不時補充，所有這些文件均通過引用明確納入本文。您還可以在那裡找到與我們在今天的電話會議上討論的任何非 GAAP 財務指標相關的信息，包括此類指標的對帳。

We are pleased to report another outstanding quarter. Our model is built to produce 10% annual growth, and the first quarter is one more example of our strategic plan at work. Our team has a clear directive to drive relationship-based deposit growth. And this quarter, we produced double-digit core deposit growth that outpaced our robust expansion of loans. We also maintained a strong net interest margin and stable asset quality.

我們很高興地報告又一個出色的季度。我們的模型旨在實現 10% 的年增長率，而第一季就是我們戰略計劃發揮作用的另一個例子。我們的團隊有明確的指示，即推動基於關係的存款成長。本季度，我們的核心存款實現了兩位數成長，超過了貸款的強勁擴張。我們也維持了強勁的淨利差和穩定的資產品質。

All the elements required to consistently grow shareholder returns showed strength during the quarter. Loans grew across our markets and portfolios, private wealth management assets and fees grew. Operating revenue showed continued strength and operating expenses were contained and in line with growth in our workforce. Non-performing assets declined. These successes drove pretax pre-provision adjusted earnings up 23% over last year's first quarter and earnings per share of $1.32, up 27% from a year ago. Most importantly, tangible book value per share grew 14%.

本季度，持續增加股東回報所需的所有要素均表現強勁。我們各個市場和投資組合的貸款均有所成長，私人財富管理資產和費用也有所成長。營業收入持續強勁，營業費用受到控制，並與員工隊伍的成長一致。不良資產減少。這些成功推動稅前撥備前調整後收益較去年第一季成長 23%，每股盈餘達到 1.32 美元，較去年同期成長 27%。最重要的是，每股有形帳面價值成長了 14%。

Dave will walk through some of the business activity that drove strong first quarter results. Dave?

戴夫將介紹推動第一季業績強勁的一些業務活動。戴夫？

Thanks, Corey. It's worth repeating that our balance sheet growth was very strong this quarter, and that's by design. You can see the quarterly highlights on slide 3 of the earnings call supplemental slides. Loan balances grew about $275 million over the same period last year. That's up almost 10%, which is our long-term organic growth goal.

謝謝，科里。值得重申的是，本季我們的資產負債表成長非常強勁，這是有意為之。您可以在收益電話會議補充投影片的第 3 張投影片上看到季度亮點。貸款餘額較去年同期增加約2.75億美元。這增長了近 10%，這是我們的長期有機成長目標。

Total deposits grew $488 million or 18% from last year's first quarter. That includes our continued use of wholesale deposits to execute our match funding strategy, maintain adequate liquidity and support our loan growth goals. We saw exceptional growth in the first quarter with core deposits growing $66 million or over 11%.

總存款比去年第一季增加了 4.88 億美元，增幅為 18%。這包括我們繼續使用批發存款來執行我們的配套融資策略，保持充足的流動性並支持我們的貸款成長目標。我們在第一季實現了顯著成長，核心存款增加了 6,600 萬美元，增幅超過 11%。

You can see our quarterly deposit and loan growth trends on slide 4. On the lending side, we continue to deliver on our growth targets in the first quarter. C&I led the growth with balances expanding $77 million or 27% annualized. A few successes in particular merit attention. SBA Lending sustained its momentum under the recently expanded team. We expect this trajectory will be variable, but with strong loan sale premiums for the past two quarters we expect SBA to be a meaningful driver of revenue in 2025.

您可以在第 4 張投影片上看到我們的季度存款和貸款成長趨勢。在貸款方面，我們在第一季持續實現成長目標。C&I 引領成長，餘額擴大 7,700 萬美元，年化率達 27%。一些成功案例尤其值得關注。SBA 貸款在近期擴大的團隊的領導下保持了良好的發展勢頭。我們預計這一軌跡將會有所變化，但由於過去兩個季度貸款銷售溢價強勁，我們預計 SBA 將成為 2025 年收入的重要推動力。

Additionally, activity levels in our asset-based lending group are exceeding what we've seen in the last 1.5 to 2 years. We attribute this to market dynamics and with our new ABL leader now in place alongside our exceptional team, we're positioned to capture growth opportunities in this space. Our floor plan financing team also continues to show nice demand, extremely high client satisfaction results and is off to a great start in 2025.

此外，我們資產抵押貸款集團的活動水準超過了過去 1.5 到 2 年的水準。我們將此歸因於市場動態，隨著我們新的 ABL 領導者與我們優秀的團隊一起上任，我們已準備好抓住這一領域的成長機會。我們的樓層平面圖融資團隊也持續表現出良好的需求、極高的客戶滿意度結果，並在 2025 年取得了良好的開端。

This is a good time to highlight two of our lending businesses in light of the current uncertainty around the economic outlook. Our asset-based lending and accounts receivable financing businesses are typically countercyclical. Yields on these loans typically carry a significant premium over conventional C&I yields, and they are generally 100% secured.

鑑於當前經濟前景的不確定性，現在是重點介紹我們的兩項貸款業務的好時機。我們的資產抵押貸款和應收帳款融資業務通常具有逆週期性。這些貸款的收益率通常比傳統的商業和工業貸款收益率高出許多，而且一般都是 100% 擔保的。

We would expect growth in these portfolios in a softening economy. Moving briefly to revenue, our first quarter revenue grew by nearly 13% compared to the first quarter of 2024. This sustained strength reflects the diversified nature of our revenue streams and supports our continued goal of achieving 10% or greater annual revenue growth over the long term. The diversification we've built into our revenue profile provides a buffer against reliance on any one source.

我們預計在經濟疲軟的情況下這些投資組合將會成長。簡單來說，談到收入，我們的第一季營收與 2024 年第一季相比成長了近 13%。這種持續的強勁表現反映了我們收入來源的多樣化，並支持我們長期實現 10% 或更高的年收入成長的持續目標。我們在收入結構中建立的多樣化可以緩衝對任何單一來源的依賴。

You can see our revenue growth trajectory on slide 7 of the earnings deck. On to asset quality. We continue to be pleased with how our portfolio is performing and have no areas of particular concern. NPAs declined by $4.3 million from the linked quarter due to net charge-offs against specific reserves on credits in the transportation sector of the equipment finance portfolio and the SBA portfolio.

您可以在收益報告的第 7 張投影片上看到我們的營收成長軌跡。關於資產品質。我們對我們的投資組合的表現仍然感到滿意，並且沒有特別令人擔憂的地方。由於設備融資組合和 SBA 組合中運輸領域信貸的特定準備金淨沖銷，不良資產較上一季減少了 430 萬美元。

While these net charge-offs reduced the overall allowance for credit losses, this was partially offset by increased general reserves due to loan growth and modest deterioration in the economic outlook in our model forecast. Together, these factors drove the increase in the allowance coverage of NPLs compared to December 31.

雖然這些淨沖銷減少了信貸損失準備金的總體水平，但由於貸款成長和我們模型預測的經濟前景略有惡化，一般準備金的增加部分抵消了這一減少。這些因素共同推動了不良貸款撥備覆蓋率較 12 月 31 日有所提高。

We are always looking closely at migration in the portfolio. Our weighted average risk rating has barely moved. We continue to weigh out the bankruptcy proceeding process and related litigation for the $6.2 million ABL credit mentioned in previous quarters. We expect full repayment on this credit but unfortunately, it continues to inflate our otherwise healthy level of NPAs.

我們始終密切關注投資組合中的移民問題。我們的加權平均風險評級幾乎沒有變化。我們將繼續權衡前幾季提到的 620 萬美元 ABL 信貸的破產程序和相關訴訟。我們期望這筆貸款能全額償還，但不幸的是，它繼續膨脹我們原本健康的不良資產水準。

Lastly, I want to comment on the current environment and what we're hearing from our clients. We are in very healthy markets and our clients are generally healthy and thriving. We do have ongoing dialogue with clients, and there is a rising level of uncertainty related to changes in US trade policy along with the potential for any unfavorable changes to lead the economy into recession.

最後，我想評論一下當前的環境以及我們從客戶那裡聽到的內容。我們處於非常健康的市場，我們的客戶總體上也健康且蓬勃發展。我們確實與客戶保持著持續的對話，美國貿易政策變化的不確定性正在上升，任何不利的變化都有可能導致經濟衰退。

Although we are built to grow at a double-digit pace in most conditions, our growth will be impacted if conditions weaken. We can't put a number on that today, but we would expect to continue outperforming our peers as we have done in recent periods of economic weakness.

儘管我們在大多數情況下都能夠保持兩位數的成長速度，但如果環境變弱，我們的成長就會受到影響。我們今天無法給出具體數字，但我們預計我們將繼續超越同行，就像我們在最近經濟疲軟時期所做的那樣。

Now I'll hand it off to Brian.

現在我將把它交給 Brian。

Thanks, Dave. I'll cover first quarter financials in a little more detail. As a reminder, when looking at our first quarter results in comparison to the linked quarter, our fourth quarter had some unusual items, which boosted earnings by about $0.28. Our ability to produce a net interest margin that is strong and stable compared to peers contributed to our solid performance.

謝謝，戴夫。我將更詳細地介紹第一季的財務狀況。需要提醒的是，將第一季業績與上一季進行比較時，我們發現第四季有一些異常項目，導致獲利成長約0.28澳元。我們能夠維持與同業相比強勁穩定的淨利差，這促成了我們穩健的業績。

First quarter margin of 3.69% reflects our continued strong balance sheet management. You can see a breakdown of this on slide 5 of our earnings supplement. Our margin includes fees earned in the move of interest, which declined by $307,000 from the linked quarter. Compared to the first quarter of 2024, fees in lieu of interest grew by $1.2 million.

第一季利潤率為 3.69%，反映出我們持續強勁的資產負債表管理。您可以在我們的收益補充報告的第 5 張投影片上看到此細節。我們的利潤包括利息變動所產生的費用，較上一季減少了 307,000 美元。與 2024 年第一季相比，利息費用增加了 120 萬美元。

Fees in lieu of interest refers to the significant and recurring but variable amount of interest income we earned from items like prepayment fees and asset-based loan fees. Recent levels were elevated and contributed 23 basis points to reported margin for the first quarter and 27 basis points in the fourth quarter compared to 10 basis points in the first quarter of 2024.

代替利息的費用是指我們從預付費用和資產抵押貸款費用等項目中獲得的大量、經常性但可變的利息收入。近期水準有所上升，為第一季報告利潤率貢獻了 23​​ 個基點，為第四季度貢獻了 27 個基點，而 2024 年第一季為 10 個基點。

Excluding these fees, our adjusted NIM was 3.46% for the quarter compared to 3.48% in the linked quarter and 3.43% for the prior year quarter. Margin remained strong and consistent due to pricing discipline and continued execution of our long-standing match funding philosophy. Dave covered fee income and the strength we continue to see there.

不包括這些費用，本季我們的調整後淨利差為 3.46%，而上一季為 3.48%，去年同期為 3.43%。由於定價紀律和持續執行我們長期以來的配套資金理念，利潤率保持強勁和穩定。戴夫介紹了費用收入以及我們繼續看到的強勁勢頭。

Just a few additional notes, ongoing variability in swap fees and returns on SBIC funds are expected. Our swap fee income will continue to vary quarterly based on CRE activity, the rate environment, and client preference. We saw a decrease of $475,000 there in the first quarter. SBIC fee income was driven by interest income in the portfolio and unrealized and realized gains.

只需補充幾點，預計掉期費和 SBIC 基金的回報將持續變化。我們的掉期費收入將根據 CRE 活動、利率環境和客戶偏好繼續每季變化。我們發現第一季那裡的資金減少了 475,000 美元。SBIC 費用收入來自投資組合的利息收入以及未實現和已實現的收益。

We saw an uptick of $318,000 in Q1 and expect realized gains should show strength throughout 2025 as the existing funds mature, though timing may contribute to ongoing variability.

我們看到第一季增加了 318,000 美元，隨著現有資金的成熟，預計實現的收益將在 2025 年全年保持強勁，儘管時間可能會導致持續的變化。

One administrative item is that we reclassified certain types of C&I loan fees from noninterest income to fees in lieu of interest in our net interest income line. For the first quarter, this reclassification was approximately $500,000. The reclassification does not change our outlook or target range of 3.60% to 3.65% for net interest margin but we'd expect to land in the higher end of that range, all else equal.

一項行政項目是，我們將某些類型的商業和工業貸款費用從非利息收入重新分類為淨利息收入中的利息費用。第一季度，重新分類的金額約為 50 萬美元。重新分類不會改變我們對淨利差的展望或目標範圍 3.60% 至 3.65%，但在其他條件相同的情況下，我們預計該範圍將處於較高水平。

Quarterly variability reinforces the importance of our fee income diversification, we've worked hard to grow. We continue to expect overall annual fee income to grow in our long-term target range of 10% going forward. Our expenses were well contained this quarter and showed expected workforce-related and seasonal growth. Total expenses were up $1.6 million compared to the fourth quarter. $1.2 million of that growth came from compensation expense due to larger workforce, merit increases, and higher seasonal payroll taxes.

季度變化強化了我們費用收入多樣化的重要性，我們一直努力實現成長。我們繼續預期未來總體年費收入將成長 10% 的長期目標範圍。本季我們的支出得到了很好的控制，並顯示出預期的勞動力相關和季節性成長。總支出與第四季相比增加了 160 萬美元。其中 120 萬美元的成長來自於因員工人數增加、績效加薪和季節性工資稅增加而產生的薪資支出。

When we think about expenses, our primary objective is achieving annual positive operating leverage, expense growth at some level below our targeted level of 10% revenue growth. We will continue to manage expenses towards this goal in the event that economic conditions impact revenue growth.

當我們考慮費用時，我們的主要目標是實現年度正營運槓桿，費用成長應低於我們 10% 收入成長的目標水準。如果經濟狀況影響收入成長，我們將繼續管理費用以實現這一目標。

Next, taxes. The first quarter returned to a more normalized effective tax rate of 17%. In line with our target range of 16% to 18% for 2025. Recall that in the fourth quarter, we saw a significant change in estimated state taxes, which brought our effective tax rate down to 5.8%. Finally, we continue to feel good about our capital levels and our strong earnings are generating more than enough capital to facilitate our expected organic growth.

接下來是稅金。第一季有效稅率恢復至更為正常的17%。與我們 2025 年 16% 至 18% 的目標範圍一致。回想一下，在第四季度，我們看到估計的州稅發生了重大變化，這使得我們的有效稅率下降至 5.8%。最後，我們繼續對我們的資本水準感到滿意，我們強勁的獲利產生了足夠的資本來促進我們預期的有機成長。

And now I'll hand it back over to Corey.

現在我將把麥克風交還給 Corey。

Thanks, Brian. I'd like to draw your attention to our slide 11 in our earnings deck. This shows our five-year strategic plan and our progress toward achieving our long-term goals. You'll see that above all, our goal is to deliver shareholder returns that exceed our peers. We expect we can do this in any environment.

謝謝，布萊恩。我想提請您注意我們收益報告中的第 11 張投影片。這展示了我們的五年策略計劃以及我們在實現長期目標方面的進展。您會發現，最重要的是，我們的目標是為股東帶來超越同行的回報。我們期望我們可以在任何環境下做到這一點。

The metrics we track to achieve this are laid out on this slide. Today, we continue to do what we've always done, and that's focused on controlling the controllable. This is the value of a well-thought-out strategic plan that is understood by all employees. It guides us in both stable and volatile times. We continue to be optimistic about 2025 and believe focus on our strategic initiatives will serve us well in the future.

我們為實現這一目標而追蹤的指標已在這張投影片上列出。今天，我們繼續做我們一直在做的事情，那就是專注於控制可控的事物。這就是經過深思熟慮並被所有員工理解的策略計劃的價值。無論是在穩定時期或動盪時期，它都能為我們指引方向。我們繼續對 2025 年持樂觀態度，並相信專注於我們的策略性舉措將為我們未來的發展帶來良好的效益。

I want to thank you for taking time to join us today. We're happy to take your questions now.

感謝您今天抽出時間來參加我們的活動。我們很高興現在回答您的問題。

(Operator Instructions) Daniel Tamayo, Raymond James.

（操作員指示）丹尼爾·塔馬約、雷蒙德·詹姆斯。

Maybe we start on the margin, kind of the underlying -- some of the underlying components there. Just curious what new loan yields were in the first quarter and where roll-off yields were? And then just any commentary you have on if you've seen a tightening of spreads at all.

也許我們從邊緣開始，從底層開始——那裡的一些底層組件。只是好奇第一季的新貸款收益率是多少以及延期貸款收益率是多少？如果您發現利差有所收窄，您可以發表任何評論。

Right. Yes. I would say new loan yields are pretty consistent with prior quarter. We're seeing for the very competitive credits those spreads are narrowing a little bit, but not much change. So I would say nothing really to note there in the first quarter.

正確的。是的。我想說新貸款收益率與上一季相當一致。我們看到，對於非常有競爭力的信貸來說，利差正在縮小一點，但變化不大。因此我認為第一季沒有什麼值得注意的地方。

Okay. Not much change on -- do you have the -- like a rough number of where they were a loan yields?

好的。變化不大——您有——貸款收益率的大致數字嗎？

No, we don't. We typically will see pricing in the 2.25% to 2.75% range depending on the type of credit and the type of product it is. So over SOFR, sorry.

不，我們不知道。我們通常會看到 2.25% 到 2.75% 範圍內的定價，具體取決於信用類型和產品類型。因此，對於 SOFR，我很抱歉。

On the bank side.

在岸邊。

On the bank side. And then I would say the specialty finance niche commercial lending area with ABL and RF and other areas, we get wider spreads there. And so that's where that mix comes into play in the margin.

在岸邊。然後我想說，在包括 ABL 和 RF 以及其他領域的專業金融利基商業貸款領域，我們在那裡獲得了更大的利差。這就是混合在邊緣發揮作用的地方。

And Danny, we for a while, we were providing that breakdown of what the loans for the quarter, the new loans came on at? And then, we thought that was going to be helpful, but we realized it gets skewed because of -- it depends where it comes from for the quarter. So as Brian said, their asset -- if we had a bunch of asset-based deals or factoring deals happen in that quarter is going to really skew it up, but it was more confusing than it was informative. So we stopped generating that information on a specific quarter go-forward basis. I would say it's pretty stable, both on the loan and deposit side right now, we've finally kind of gotten to an equilibrium state, I would say, on both sides of the balance sheet.

丹尼，有一段時間，我們一直在提供本季貸款的明細，以及新貸款的金額是多少？然後，我們認為這會有所幫助，但我們意識到它會產生偏差，因為這取決於本季的來源。正如布萊恩所說，他們的資產——如果我們在那個季度發生大量基於資產的交易或保理交易，那將會產生很大的偏差，但這帶來的困惑大於資訊量。因此，我們停止根據特定季度產生該資訊。我想說，目前無論是貸款還是存款方面，情況都相當穩定，我想說，我們最終已經達到了資產負債表兩邊的平衡狀態。

I agree.

我同意。

That's kind of where I was going with this. The core margin has been pretty stable, trended slightly down over the last few quarters, but relatively stable here as you guys have talked about the expectation for that to be the case. You've got the, call it, 5 basis points of incremental fees of interest in there now. So I appreciate your guidance on the upper end of 3.60% to 3.65%, so I guess what you're saying is that you're not seeing loan yields either relatively stable in the quarter, you wouldn't expect those to be trending down at all from current levels if we didn't get any rate cuts and probably the same answer on funding costs. Is that fair?

這就是我要說的。核心利潤率一直相當穩定，過去幾個季度略有下降，但在這裡相對穩定，正如你們談到的預期那樣。現在，您已經獲得了 5 個基點的增量利息費用。因此，我很欣賞您對 3.60% 至 3.65% 的上限的指導，所以我想您說的是，您沒有看到本季度的貸款收益率相對穩定，如果我們沒有得到任何降息，您就不會認為這些收益率會從當前水平下降，而且在融資成本方面可能也會得到同樣的答案。這樣公平嗎？

Yes. That's spot on.

是的。完全正確。

Okay. And then you talked about it a little bit in your prepared comments about the tariffs and maybe creating some uncertainty and probably hard to quantify at this point. But just curious, as you look through your borrower base, where it might be most exposed to these tariffs where you're watching most closely as we go through these next few months and who knows what's going to actually come out of Washington, but at least to give you a starting point.

好的。然後您在準備好的評論中稍微談到了關稅問題，這可能會造成一些不確定性，而且目前可能很難量化。但只是好奇，當你查看你的借款人基礎時，他們可能最容易受到這些關稅的影響，在接下來的幾個月裡你會最密切地關注，誰知道華盛頓實際上會發生什麼，但至少給你一個起點。

Dave, why don't you start with that?

戴夫，你為什麼不從那裡開始呢？

Yes. Well, I think to start, Danny, I mean, we tried to communicate a lot with our clients, and we've ramped that up over the last 60 days, for sure, just trying to figure out what they're thinking and where they might be impacted. Right now, we're not hearing a lot of noise from them. I mean they have concerns, and they have uncertainty, but I don't believe they've been significantly impacted at this point. So we're focusing on -- particularly on clients that have foreign or international clients, international vendors. We're focusing on contractors. And so far, we haven't seen a huge impact.

是的。嗯，丹尼，我想首先，我們嘗試與客戶進行大量溝通，並且在過去 60 天裡我們確實加大了溝通力度，只是想弄清楚他們在想什麼以及他們可能會受到哪些影響。目前，我們還沒有聽到他們太多的聲音。我的意思是他們有擔憂，有不確定性，但我認為他們目前還沒有受到重大影響。因此，我們特別關注擁有外國或國際客戶、國際供應商的客戶。我們關注的是承包商。到目前為止，我們還沒有看到巨大的影響。

Jim, anything different to add there?

吉姆，還有什麼要補充的嗎？

No, lots of conversation and uncertainty, but no impact as of yet. And I would say there's a little bit of a good news, bad news in that, Danny, is we don't have a lot of clients that do international. That's all internationally. We've up and tried to push on international products because it's a good product for banks, letters of credit hedging for currency exposure, et cetera. And we just don't have much usage on that from our client base, which right now today is probably good news.

不，有很多對話和不確定性，但目前還沒有影響。我想說，這有一點好消息，也有一點壞消息，丹尼，那就是我們沒有很多從事國際業務的客戶。國際上都是這樣的。我們已開始嘗試推廣國際產品，因為它對於銀行、信用狀對沖貨幣風險等都是一種很好的產品。而我們的客戶群對此並沒有太多的使用，這在今天來說可能是個好消息。

Got it. Okay. I appreciate all that color. Last one, just a small question. I apologize. I'm not sure if you addressed this in the comments, I know you did in the release a little bit just on the pull forward of equipment finance losses that drove the increase in net charge-offs. That would be expected to -- I mean that's essentially like a one-quarter phenomenon. Is that the way to think about that?

知道了。好的。我很欣賞所有這些顏色。最後一個，只是一個小問題。我很抱歉。我不確定您是否在評論中提到了這一點，我知道您在發布中確實提到了一點，只是提到了設備融資損失的提前導致淨沖銷增加。這是可以預料的——我的意思是，這基本上就像一個季度現象。是這樣思考的嗎？

Yes. Let's have Brad Quade, our Chief Credit Officer.

是的。讓我們請出我們的首席信貸官布拉德·奎德 (Brad Quade)。

Danny, yes, that is a one quarter anomaly that we're going to see at that level. While we do expect some continued credit costs in the equipment finance portfolio in Q2 and beyond. We look at that size of the charge-offs there being unique and kind of accelerating a quarter's worth of charge-offs plus.

丹尼，是的，這是我們在那個層面上將會看到的一個四分之一的異常現象。儘管我們確實預期第二季及以後設備融資組合中仍將存在一些信貸成本。我們認為那裡的沖銷金額是獨一無二的，並且在某種程度上加速了一個季度的沖銷額。

Okay. All right. Great. I'll sign off with -- glad to see the Packers finally decided to take a receiver last night in the draft bill.

好的。好的。偉大的。我將以…結束，很高興看到包裝工隊昨晚終於決定在選秀法案中選擇一名接球手。

Jeff Rulis, D.A. Davidson.

傑夫·魯利斯、地方檢察官戴維森。

Maybe a quick follow-on in the same vein expectation on the provision assuming loan growth is where it's at a step down. There's some correlation, I guess, I'm asking on the provision to the increased charge-offs. Is that correct?

也許可以快速跟進同樣的預期，假設貸款成長處於下降階段。我想，這其中存在著某種關聯，我詢問的是增加沖銷額的規定。對嗎？

Yes, in the current quarter, there's correlation to the increased provision due to the pull forward on the EF charge-offs. So I think all else equal, we have a growth factor in provision, and then we'll continue to work through the EF portfolio with some additional net new along with the charge-offs in the quarter. And then again, the CECL model factors, the quantitative piece, right, will kind of present itself as it will with the rest of the industry.

是的，在本季度，由於 EF 沖銷的提前，撥備增加存在相關性。因此，我認為在其他所有條件相同的情況下，我們在撥備中有一個成長因素，然後我們將繼續透過 EF 投資組合增加一些淨新增額以及本季的沖銷額。再說一次，CECL 模型因素、定量部分，對吧，將會像產業的其他部分一樣呈現出來。

But most of what we pulled forward -- because essentially, I think you could think of it as two quarters' worth of charge-offs from that equipment finance portfolio, which is where there was the transportation noise. But because of all that was done on timing, those were essentially reserved for already. So I don't think it had the same impact on the provision for the quarter. It just pulled those charge-offs out of the specific reserves that were already in place for that.

但我們提前完成的大部分工作——因為本質上，我認為你可以把它看作是設備融資組合中兩個季度的沖銷，而這正是運輸噪音所在。但由於所有這些都是在時間上完成的，所以這些基本上已經被保留了。因此，我認為它對本季的準備金沒有同樣的影響。它只是從已經到位的特定儲備中扣除了這些沖銷款項。

Got it. Okay. So it came out of the reserve, but the provision line is less impacted and that's more of a function of kind of go-forward growth and CECL gymnastics, I suppose, right? So okay. So a provision level in the range that you've seen in the last few quarters is a reasonable assumption?

知道了。好的。因此，它是從儲備中出來的，但供給線受到的影響較小，我認為這更多的是向前增長和 CECL 體操的一種功能，對嗎？好吧。那麼，您在過去幾季中看到的撥備水準是一個合理的假設嗎？

Yes.

是的。

So jump in ship a little bit. Your cash and securities balances as a percent of earning assets, it's kind of a two-year high. I guess, is that an intentional strategy, somewhat temporary? Just trying to check in on those levels relative to overall earning assets?

因此，稍微跳進船裡。您的現金和證券餘額佔獲利資產的百分比是兩年來的最高水準。我猜，這是一種有意為之的策略，有點暫時的？只是想檢查一下相對於整體獲利資產的水平？

Yes. I'll say intentional, but temporary. Intentional on the fact that we're looking to the balance sheet for 10% of total assets for liquidity at quarter end and you try to land the plan as best you can around that, and we had some nice core deposit inflows. Really the last business day of the quarter, which then left us with some additional deposits there and inflated the balance sheet, we've already put that to work, though.

是的。我想說這是有意的，但只是暫時的。我們有意在季度末的資產負債表中尋找佔總資產 10% 的流動性，並儘可能圍繞這一目標制定計劃，而且我們獲得了一些不錯的核心存款流入。這實際上是本季度的最後一個工作日，這給我們留下了一些額外的存款，並誇大了資產負債表，不過，我們已經將其投入使用了。

Got it. Okay. Appreciate it. And then you mentioned the fee income expectations overall. I just want to clarify in that loan fee income line, the reclass. Is that a -- is that permanent that the run rate on loan fees remains kind of at this run rate safe to say?

知道了。好的。非常感謝。然後您提到了總體費用收入預期。我只是想澄清一下貸款費用收入項目中的重新分類。可以肯定地說，貸款費用的運作率將永久維持在這個水準嗎？

I would say in the quarter, right, we had $7.5 million or so million. So you add that reclass back and we're closer to $8 million. That's with some of those components that we talk about, right? SBA was stronger but private wealth, SBIC fund investments, different areas that we still think we can grow fee income -- swap fee income that comes and goes as a client preference in the rate environment. So we believe we can make up that reclass throughout the course of the year in fee income based on the various based on the various engines and cylinders we have in that fee income growth.

我想說，在本季度，我們的收入約為 750 萬美元。因此，如果你把重新分類的結果加進去，我們就接近 800 萬美元了。這就是我們討論過的一些組件，對嗎？SBA 實力更強，但私人財富、SBIC 基金投資等不同領域我們仍然認為可以增加費用收入——掉期費用收入在利率環境下隨著客戶偏好而來來去去。因此，我們相信，我們可以根據費用收入成長中各種引擎和汽缸的不同情況，在全年的費用收入中彌補重新分類的損失。

Okay. I may follow up with you on that, but I'll step back.

好的。我可能會跟進此事，但我會退一步。

Damon DelMonte, KBW.

達蒙·德爾蒙特（Damon DelMonte），KBW。

Quick question, just to kind of follow up on the last comment on the loan income reclassification. So I think Brian, you said that was about 5 basis points impact to the margin. Is that correct?

快速提問，只是為了跟進關於貸款收入重新分類的最後一條評論。所以我認為，布萊恩，你說這對利潤率的影響約為 5 個基點。對嗎？

Yes. Yes, about.

是的。是的，大約。

Okay. So I think total fees in lieu of interest was around 23 basis points this quarter. And I think historically, it's been a little bit lower, maybe like 15 basis points. So should we kind of model 20 basis points now if you look at the pickup from the other 5 basis points on the reclass?

好的。因此我認為本季代替利息的總費用約為 23 個基點。我認為從歷史上看，這個數字會稍微低一些，大概是 15 個基點。那麼，如果您查看重新分類後其他 5 個基點的回升情況，我們現在是否應該對 20 個基點進行建模？

Yes. I think that's fair. On average, right, it's been around 15% to 20% and so similar to our margin comments around that 3.60% to 3.65%, all else equal, we'd probably be on the higher end of that range, right? So the 15% to 20% would probably be on higher end is probably a fair assumption.

是的。我認為這是公平的。平均而言，大約在 15% 到 20% 左右，與我們的利潤率評論類似，大約在 3.60% 到 3.65% 左右，在其他條件相同的情況下，我們可能處於該範圍的高端，對嗎？因此，15% 到 20% 可能處於較高水平，這可能是合理的假設。

That makes sense. And then -- with regards to opportunity to reprice fixed rate loans or CDs that are coming due. Can you just talk a little bit about what the schedule for those looks like?

這很有道理。然後——關於重新定價即將到期的固定利率貸款或 CD 的機會​​。能否簡單談談這些計劃的具體安排？

Our CD portfolio is smaller, but we still do have opportunity there. We kind of -- we noted that in our earnings release. Around $100 million-plus coming off at a 4 handle and $100 million-plus on renewed or new at a sub-4. So there's still some benefit there. It's just not a large portfolio really at all. And then on the loan side, just given where we are and when those loans are put on, I think there still is an opportunity not only on the loan side, but on the bond portfolio, too, diminishing there, though, given where we are in the rate cycle now from where we put those assets on.

我們的 CD 投資組合規模較小，但我們仍然有機會。我們在收益報告中提到了這一點。4 級手把的價格約為 1 億美元以上，4 級以下的續約或新手把的價格約為 1 億美元以上。所以這還是有一些好處的。事實上，這根本不是一個大的投資組合。然後在貸款方面，考慮到我們現在的狀況以及這些貸款的發放時間，我認為不僅在貸款方面，而且在債券投資組合方面仍然有機會，但考慮到我們現在所處的利率週期以及我們投放這些資產的位置，這種機會正在減少。

Got it. Okay. Okay. That's probably all that I had. Everything else has already been asked.

知道了。好的。好的。這大概就是我所擁有的一切。其餘一切都已問過了。

Nathan Race, Piper Sandler.

內森·雷斯，派珀·桑德勒。

A bigger picture on the SBA front. Obviously, there's been a lot of headlines recently in terms of some changes in terms of underwriting and kind of just how that may impact deal volumes and so forth. So just curious how you guys are kind of thinking about any ramifications, some of the changes in the SBA area may impact your revenue line going forward?

SBA 方面的更大圖景。顯然，最近有很多關於承保方面的變化以及這些變化可能如何影響交易量等方面的新聞報導。所以我很好奇你們是如何看待這些變化的，SBA 領域的一些變化可能會影響你們未來的收入來源嗎？

I mean I don't think we, at this point, see a huge difference. I think it's -- the biggest factor driving volume for us right now is our sales team there. So at this point, I don't think we have huge concerns about changes in volume.

我的意思是，我認為我們目前還沒有看到巨大的差異。我認為——目前推動我們銷售的最大因素是我們那裡的銷售團隊。因此，目前我認為我們並不需要太擔心產量的變化。

Okay. Got you. And then obviously, you guys are still kind of sticking to your double-digit or high single-digit balance sheet growth outlook. But just curious, with all the macro volatility of late, have you seen any kind of slowdown in activity levels when it comes to what you've seen in loan committee or otherwise?

好的。明白了。顯然，你們仍然堅持兩位數或高個位數的資產負債表成長前景。但只是好奇，鑑於最近的宏觀波動，您是否看到貸款委員會或其他方面的活動水平有所放緩？

Jim?

吉姆？

We really haven't. There's been a lot of conversation and they're dealing with it on a case-by-case basis, but we haven't seen a pull through in the pipeline yet.

我們確實沒有。他們已經進行了很多討論，並且正在根據具體情況進行處理，但我們尚未看到任何進展。

Okay. Great.

好的。偉大的。

Nate, the only real-time data that we have loan deals that we have coming through the bank, those are things that have been in process for a while. So we tried to look at that to see if we had any real-time data and thought about our equipment finance business, why don't you speak to that, Dave?

內特，我們唯一的即時數據是透過銀行進行的貸款交易，這些事情已經進行了一段時間了。因此，我們嘗試查看我們是否有任何即時數據，並考慮我們的設備融資業務，戴夫，為什麼不談談這個呢？

Right. So that's higher volume, smaller ticket type products. So what we've seen there is actually an increase in volume, the increase in applications over the past 30 to 45 days. So we don't know if that's people accelerating their purchases to avoid tariffs or just baseline economic activity. And I guess we won't know until sometime in the future, but at least it's an indicator that real time, it hasn't slowed down yet.

正確的。因此，這是數量更多、票證類型較小的產品。因此，我們看到的是，過去 30 到 45 天內申請數量確實有所增加。所以我們不知道這是人們為了避免關稅而加速購買還是只是基本的經濟活動。我想我們要到未來的某個時候才會知道，但至少這表明實時速度還沒有減慢。

Okay. Got you. And then a question for Brad. Just curious what you saw in terms of kind of criticized classified migration in the quarter? And just kind of -- just any general thoughts on that front?

好的。明白了。然後問布拉德一個問題。我只是好奇您在本季看到了哪些受到批評的機密移民問題？只是有點——對此有什麼總體想法嗎？

From a credit standpoint, I mean, nothing exceptional. I'd say the trend lines are benign. We had very little way of change quarter-over-quarter. We continue to work through a couple of the challenged credits that are on there. But the overall portfolio and even those that headed into the quarter with some signs of distress and general stability quarter-over-quarter. So really too early to pick up any real trend lines of deterioration from broader economic concerns.

從信用角度來看，我的意思是，沒有什麼特別的。我想說趨勢線是良性的。我們每季幾乎沒有什麼變化。我們將繼續研究其中存在的一些有爭議的問題。但整體投資組合，甚至那些進入本季的投資組合，都出現了一些困境跡象，但環比整體保持穩定。因此，現在就從更廣泛的經濟問題中推斷出任何真正的惡化趨勢還為時過早。

Okay. Got it. And then maybe one last one for Brian. Just curious how you're thinking about remaining deposit cost leverage just based on kind of where your pricing is today and maybe what you've in CDs rolling off based on kind of where your pricing is today on some of those products as long as the Fed remains on pause.

好的。知道了。這也許是最後一個給 Brian 的。我只是好奇，只要聯準會保持暫停狀態，您如何考慮剩餘的存款成本槓桿，僅僅基於您目前的定價水平，也許您的 CD 滾動情況是基於您目前對某些產品的定價水平。

I would say it's going to be nominal, right? We've talked about the CD portfolio and the opportunity we have there, kind of a very small CD portfolio. And then just new client acquisition is expensive. It's near the alternative cost of funds. And for us, we think about the brokered CD market as alternative cost of funds. And so the good thing for us is we've always been kind of competing in that environment. And so we have -- we think the asset yields to support them that 3.60%, 3.65% long term still when you throw in the mix of the conventional in addition to the mix of the higher-yielding niche C&I buckets. So a long answer to a shorter question, sorry.

我想說這只是名義上的，對嗎？我們討論了 CD 投資組合以及我們在那裡擁有的機會，這是一個非常小的 CD 投資組合。而且，僅僅獲取新客戶的成本就很高。它接近資金的替代成本。對我們來說，我們將經紀 CD 市場視為資金的替代成本。所以對我們來說好事是我們一直在這種環境中競爭。因此，我們認為，如果再加上傳統的高收益利基 C&I 資產組合，資產收益率將長期維持在 3.60% 至 3.65% 的水平。所以對於一個較短的問題我給了較長的回答，抱歉。

No. That helps a lot. Just lastly, can you guys remind us kind of what your loan deposit ratio target has obviously come down nicely in the quarter, but just curious where you would like that to land over time?

不。這很有幫助。最後，您能否提醒我們一下，您的貸款存款比率目標在本季度顯然已經大幅下降，但只是好奇您希望隨著時間的推移，這一目標會達到什麼水平？

Well, I think we might have said this, Nate, is we don't think about it that much. We don't care about it that much. We just think about our funding and liquidity, et cetera.

好吧，內特，我想我們可能會這麼說，我們並沒有考慮那麼多。我們不太關心這個。我們只考慮我們的資金和流動性等等。

But we know there are some kind of older school bank investors who look at loan-to-deposit ratio and think that's an indicator of risk. They could see the Silicon Valley Bank experience and realize maybe that's not the case. But we also -- because of those optics, we're trying to get it down a little bit. That's why we favor brokered CDs over home loan bank advances when we want to match fund our balance sheet. So ideally, that was 99.99% instead of 100 some [01], we think it could be better just because it some screening that people do.

但我們知道，有些老派銀行投資者會關注貸存比，並認為這是風險指標。他們可以看到矽谷銀行的經驗並意識到事實可能並非如此。但我們也——因為這些光學因素，我們正在嘗試將其降低一點。這就是為什麼當我們想要匹配資產負債表資金時，我們更青睞經紀存單而不是房屋貸款銀行預付款。因此理想情況下，這個比例是 99.99%，而不是 100% [01]，我們認為這可能會更好，因為這是人們進行的一些篩選。

So that's our first test this quarter. We'll see. We're below 100% this quarter. We're at 98% maybe this quarter. And so I think that big -- there's a lot of success in the core deposit side but also just transitioning away from home loan advances to broker cities for our match funding brought us down. And so we think we have opportunity to keep pushing that down given the core deposit objectives and goals.

這是我們本季的第一次測試。我們將拭目以待。本季我們的完成率低於 100%。本季我們的完成率大概是 98%。因此，我認為，核心存款方面取得了很大成功，但從房屋貸款預付款轉向經紀城市以獲得配套資金也讓我們陷入困境。因此，我們認為，考慮到核心存款目標，我們有機會繼續降低這一水平。

But to Corey's point, we're really more focused on that 75% core funded total bank funding and that gets a little higher, that's great. But we're always going to have that element of wholesale funding to mitigate the interest rate risk.

但正如科里所說，我們實際上更關注的是 75% 的核心資金總銀行融資，如果這個數字稍微高一點，那就太好了。但我們始終會利用批發融資來降低利率風險。

As long as that's in that 70% to 80% range of our core funding that's a good place for us to be able to appropriately match fund the fixed rate portion of our loan portfolio, that's on balance sheet. So that's a good range for us to be in.

只要這占到我們核心資金的 70% 到 80% 的範圍內，我們就能夠適當地匹配我們貸款組合中固定利率部分的資金，這都在資產負債表上。所以這對我們來說是一個很好的範圍。

But as Brian said, the transition from home loan to brokered, which has been over the last couple of years in terms of what we've used for that match funding, that's brought that loan-to-deposit ratio down. So hopefully, we look more attractive and get a few more screens and people come and listen to the story and discover what we're doing here and find it attractive.

但正如布萊恩所說，從房屋貸款到經紀貸款的轉變，就我們用於配套資金的資金而言，在過去幾年中已經降低了貸款與存款的比率。所以希望我們看起來更有吸引力，能獲得更多的螢幕，人們來聽我們的故事，了解我們在這裡所做的事情，並發現它有吸引力。

Yes. Agree. Sounds good. I appreciate all the color.

是的。同意。聽起來不錯。我欣賞所有的色彩。

Brian Martin, Janney.

布萊恩馬丁、珍妮。

Just one question, just back to that fees in lieu, the reclass. Is it -- I guess, is it just being conservative to not bump the target range and the margin if you're adding 5% to that bucket, if you will, kind of when you split out the kind of core margin versus core with the fees in lieu or however you want to call it, but is that just some conservatism on your part? Or I guess is it something -- I guess, if we think about that.

只有一個問題，回到代替費用和重新分類的問題。是不是——我想，如果您要在這個桶裡增加 5%，那麼不提高目標範圍和利潤率是否只是一種保守的做法，當您將核心利潤率與核心利潤率分開時，加上費用，或者不管您想怎麼稱呼它，但這是否只是您的一些保守做法？或者我想這是某種東西——我想，如果我們考慮一下的話。

Yes, we have a range -- stated range of 3.60% to 3.65% and we think all else equally end up now on the higher end of that range, why we kind of say it that way and continue to say it that way is because it's so -- it is a volatile element with the fees in lieu of interest, right? So that can be on average 15% to 20%, it can be 23%, like it is this quarter, it can be less than 10% like it has been in other quarters. And so that's why we kind of stuck with our guns there on our disclosed ranges, although, again, pushing towards that higher end given the reclass.

是的，我們有一個範圍 - 規定的範圍是 3.60％ 到 3.65％，我們認為其他所有因素現在都處於該範圍的高端，為什麼我們這樣說並繼續這樣說是因為它是 - 它是一個不穩定的元素，費用代替利息，對嗎？因此，平均而言，成長率可以是 15% 到 20%，也可以是 23%，就像本季一樣，也可以是低於 10%，就像其他季度一樣。這就是為什麼我們堅持將槍支放在我們公開的射程內，儘管考慮到重新分類，我們再次向更高的目標推進。

Got you. Okay. And just stick with the higher range of what we put in for the fees in lieu right now. Okay. And then, Brian, just any big comments on -- I get the NIM stability and just kind of the mass funded. Just any near-term kind of push or pull on directionally how the margin plays out here in the next couple of quarters, given kind of the environment we're in right now or just not much movement one way or the other? Really, I guess, is how you're -- I mean, I listened to your comment about the competitive pressures on the deposit side, certainly funding loan growth. But anything else that merits mentioning on your part in terms of near term?

明白了。好的。並且堅持我們現在所支付的替代費用的較高範圍。好的。然後，布萊恩，任何關於——我都了解 NIM 穩定性和大眾資助的任何重大評論。考慮到我們目前所處的環境，或者說沒有太大的變化，短期內是否會對未來幾季的利潤率產生推動或拉動？我猜，實際上，您是這樣的——我的意思是，我聽取了您關於存款方面的競爭壓力的評論，這肯定會為貸款增長提供資金。但就近期而言，還有什麼值得您提及的嗎？

Yes. I would kind of echo off of what Corey said earlier around stability. Right now, at least on both sides of the balance sheet relative to pricing. And while it's very competitive on the deposit side, I think we also have some comments maybe on Dave's comments around a little pickup in some of our niche C&I areas, too, right?

是的。我有點同意 Corey 之前關於穩定性的說法。目前，至少在資產負債表的兩邊相對於定價而言都是如此。雖然存款方面的競爭非常激烈，但我認為我們可能對戴夫關於我們的一些利基 C&I 領域略有回升的評論也有一些評論，對嗎？

So there is some more activity there and the more activity we have there, the more opportunity we have with those higher-yielding loans, and we get those on the books, and we have opportunities that more fees in lieu of interest. And so we think that combination and the mix of new business on both sides of the balance sheet gives us the opportunity to maintain our long-term margin targets.

因此，那裡有更多的活動，我們在那裡開展的活動越多，我們在那些高收益貸款方面的機會就越多，我們將這些貸款記入賬簿，並且我們有機會用更多的費用代替利息。因此，我們認為，資產負債表兩邊的新業務組合使我們有機會維持長期利潤目標。

Got you. Okay. Well, that's helpful. And in terms of the -- just the credit picture, if we do get into a little bit different environment or a weaker environment here, I think you had talked about or maybe some continued normalization of the conventional portfolio. But just as you kind of eye the risk here over the next 6 to 12 months, if we do economically get a little bit weaker, where -- any new areas that we should be watching? I know you talked about the equipment finance, but just -- is it more of the conventional side? Or is it -- I guess we just point to where you're kind of paying a little bit more attention to today?

明白了。好的。嗯，這很有幫助。就信貸狀況而言，如果我們確實進入一個稍微不同的環境或更弱的環境，我想您已經談過，或者可能是傳統投資組合的持續正常化。但是，正如您所關注的未來 6 到 12 個月的風險一樣，如果我們的經濟確實變得有點疲軟，那麼我們應該關注哪些新的領域？我知道您談到了設備融資，但是—它是否更偏向傳統方面？或者是——我想我們只是指出了您今天更加關注的地方？

Brad, why don't you take that?

布拉德，你為什麼不接受這個？

Yes. Yes. I think that well obviously impossible to estimate with great accuracy what's going on in the economy. I think our portfolio because of the focus on real estate and heavily towards Wisconsin and Madison area real estate continues to be very, very strong and showing high occupancy, good cash flows and across the entire portfolio, a great deal of still customer liquidity. So I would say, in general, we feel very good about our portfolio being able to withstand softness in the economy.

是的。是的。我認為，顯然不可能非常準確地估計經濟狀況。我認為，由於我們的投資組合專注於房地產，尤其是威斯康辛州和麥迪遜地區的房地產，因此其表現仍然非常強勁，入住率高，現金流良好，整個投資組合仍然擁有大量的客戶流動性。因此我想說，總的來說，我們對我們的投資組合能夠抵禦經濟疲軟感到非常滿意。

I think the obvious areas that as we look at the portfolio will still be equipment finance driven. But it will be already existing weakness within the transportation sector. If we were to hit a recession, there are the ones who have already been in recession for the last couple of years and would, I think, be the ones to feel it most significantly, but we've already factored in a great deal of softness in that segment of the portfolio today. So I guess that's the guidance I can give you based on what we see right now.

我認為，從我們的投資組合來看，明顯的領域仍將由設備融資驅動。但這將是運輸業已經存在的弱點。如果我們陷入經濟衰退，我認為那些在過去幾年已經陷入衰退的國家將會是受影響最嚴重的國家，但我們今天已經在投資組合的這一部分考慮到了很大的疲軟因素。所以我想這就是根據我們目前所看到的情況我可以給你的指導。

Yes. No, that's helpful. I appreciate it. And I don't know if you guys talked about -- maybe if I missed in your opening comments, but just about the kind of the level of expenses today. This is kind of a good run rate to think about anything unusual there in terms of just kind of your outlook or just what you might say about that?

是的。不，這很有幫助。我很感激。我不知道你們是否談論過——也許我錯過了你們的開場白，但只是談論了今天的開支水平。這是一個很好的運行率，可以考慮從您的觀點來看有什麼不尋常的地方，或者您對此有何看法？

Nothing unusual, I say, consistent with how we've operated for a long time now, investing in people. We'll continue to do that in '25 opportunistically. And then -- and if there are revenue headwinds from anything out of our control and macro base, then we can adjust that run rate really driving towards that positive operating leverage on an annual basis.

我想說，這沒什麼不尋常的，這與我們長期以來的經營方式一致，即投資於人才。我們將在 25 年繼續抓住機會這樣做。然後 - 如果出現任何我們無法控制和宏觀基礎的收入阻力，那麼我們可以調整運行率，真正推動年度正營運槓桿的實現。

Okay. So good run rate to start and we'll see how things play out?

好的。一開始的運作率就很好，我們看看事情進展如何？

Yes.

是的。

Okay. That's it. My other questions are answered.

好的。就是這樣。我的其他問題已得到解答。

(Operator Instructions) There are no further questions at this time. I will now turn the call over to CEO, Corey Chambas. Please continue.

（操作員指示）目前沒有其他問題。現在我將把電話轉給執行長 Corey Chambas。請繼續。

Thank you for joining us today, everyone. We appreciate your time and your interest in First Business Bank, and we look forward to sharing our progress again next quarter. Have a great rest of your day and a great weekend. Thanks.

謝謝大家今天的到來。感謝您抽出時間並對第一商業銀行感興趣，我們期待下個季度再次分享我們的進展。祝您今天剩餘的時間過得愉快，週末愉快。謝謝。

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

女士們、先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。