Expensify Inc (EXFY) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

(audio in progress) Like I just mentioned, our free cash flow was $6.3 million, a 10% increase from last year. Last quarter, we updated our guidance, $17 million to $21 million in annual free cash flow. We're now increasing that free cash flow guidance to $19 million to $23 million. As the year goes on, our confidence in this number increases and we continue to increase it.

（音頻進行中）正如我剛才提到的，我們的自由現金流為 630 萬美元，比去年增加了 10%。上個季度，我們更新了預期，年度自由現金流為 1,700 萬美元至 2,100 萬美元。我們現在將自由現金流預期提高至 1,900 萬美元至 2,300 萬美元。隨著時間的推移，我們對這個數字的信心不斷增強，並且會繼續增加它。

We'll let you know in the next quarter. July payment members were 641,000. July is usually a pretty soft month. A lot of people are on summer vacation with their families, it's usually not a great month for us. And so we saw that seasonality this quarter -- we saw that seasonality in July.

我們將在下個季度通知您。7月份繳費會員人數為64.1萬人。七月通常是一個相當平靜的月份。很多人都會和家人一起度過暑假，這對我們來說通常不是一個好月份。因此，我們在本季看到了這種季節性——我們在七月看到了這種季節性。

Now let's talk about what everyone wants to hear about, the F1 movie. So I hope you saw it. It was a great movie. Let's talk about some highlights here.

現在我們來談談大家都想聽的F1電影。所以我希望你看到了。這是一部很棒的電影。讓我們在這裡談論一些亮點。

So Expensify was on screen for an estimated total of over 35 minutes, which is insane. We did this Super Bowl ad in 2019. We paid a lot of money for 30 seconds, and our logo was only on screen for about 2 seconds of the 35 seconds, because we had to make it entertaining and funny.

因此，Expensify 在螢幕上的顯示時間總計超過 35 分鐘，這太瘋狂了。我們在 2019 年製作了這個超級盃廣告。我們為這 30 秒付出了很多錢，但我們的標誌在 35 秒的螢幕上只出現了大約 2 秒，因為我們必須讓它變得有趣。

So now, I'll time for the logo. This was very logo-based and a huge increase from 2 seconds to 35 minutes. Given the box office numbers and the fact that we were on screen for 35 minutes, we estimate that the Expensify logo was on screen and viewable for 1.3 billion minutes over the last month and change.

現在，我要開始設計商標了。這是以標誌為基礎的，並且從 2 秒大幅增加到 35 分鐘。根據票房數字以及我們在螢幕上出現 35 分鐘的事實，我們估計 Expensify 標誌在過去一個月內出現在螢幕上並可觀看的時間總計為 13 億分鐘。

Additionally, we estimate over $100 million was spent marketing the movie in which our logo featured heavily. So you probably saw a lot of ads, probably saw our logo in those ads. We think over $100 million was spent doing that, promoting our logo by companies other than us, which is great -- a great deal.

此外，我們估計，我們的標誌在其中大量出現的電影的營銷費用超過 1 億美元。所以你可能看到了很多廣告，可能在這些廣告中看到了我們的標誌。我們認為我們花費了超過 1 億美元來透過我們以外的公司推廣我們的標誌，這是非常棒的——一筆非常大的數目。

Additionally, there was a lot of buzz around the movie. So the PR, what's called, earned media, generate an estimated equivalent value of $61 million marketing. What that means is how much would it cost to get all the articles written about us, all the time sales talked about on the news, social media, if you were to take all that activity and then figure out how much would it cost to buy that, that cost would be $61 million. So the earned me around the movie, we estimate, at this point, it's $61 million.

此外，這部電影也引起了廣泛關注。因此，公關，即所謂的贏得媒體，產生了估計相當於 6100 萬美元的行銷價值。這意味著，如果我們要把所有關於我們的文章、所有在新聞和社群媒體上談論的銷售情況都寫出來，然後算出購買這些需要花多少錢，那麼這筆費用將是 6,100 萬美元。因此，我們估計這部電影的票房收入目前為 6,100 萬美元。

The movie's also been greenlit for a second theatrical release at IMAX, then it's going to go to Apple TV. So it'll continue to interest for a long time to come.

該電影也獲准在 IMAX 影院進行第二次上映，之後將登陸 Apple TV。因此，它在未來很長一段時間內仍將持續引起人們的興趣。

So these numbers are just as of right now. These are not the final numbers. And we think that it's going to continue to be seen by people, be loved by people, and continue to pay dividends for us as a business.

這些數字只是截至目前為止的數據。這些還不是最終的數字。我們認為它會繼續被人們看到，受到人們的喜愛，並繼續為我們帶來商業紅利。

One of the ways we measure the effectiveness of this investment that we made is in brand awareness. So we do brand awareness studies. Basically, the general population of surveys that we're not surveying, specifically accountants or any specific population, just normal, everyday people. Because we grow through bottom-up adoption, we market to just regular employee people.

我們衡量這項投資有效性的方法之一是品牌知名度。因此我們進行品牌知名度研究。基本上，我們調查的不是一般人群，特別是會計師或任何特定人群，而是普通的日常人群。由於我們是透過自下而上的採用來發展的，因此我們的行銷對像只是普通員工。

And they hear about us. They download the app. they bring into the business. So that's a big piece of our business model. So that's why we do these awareness surveys. So as you can see, the increase from April to July is quite significant, over a 50% increase in our core demographic, which is ages 18 to 54.

他們也聽過我們。他們下載該應用程式並將其帶入業務。這是我們商業模式的重要組成部分。這就是我們進行這些意識調查的原因。因此，正如您所看到的，從 4 月到 7 月的增長非常顯著，我們的核心人口（年齡 18 歲至 54 歲）增長了 50% 以上。

And very excitingly, our, in the, basically the future, our future bottom-up adopters, 18 to 24, which is a hard demographic to get in front of, we saw a 350% increase in brand awareness. And again, this is unaided awareness.

非常令人興奮的是，基本上在未來，我們自下而上的採用者，即 18 至 24 歲的人，這是一個很難覆蓋的人口統計數據，我們的品牌知名度將提高 350%。再說一次，這是無助的意識。

What that means is, in the survey, they're asked, do you know anything about expense management? Do you use expense management? And if they say no, then, you know, they're ignored. If they say yes, the next question is, okay, can you name any of them? And then they type in the ones that they can name. Way more people were able to name Expensify by name than any other of our competitors in this space.

這意味著，在調查中，他們會被問到，你對費用管理了解多少？您使用費用管理嗎？如果他們說“不”，那麼，你知道，他們就會被忽視。如果他們說是，那麼下一個問題是，好吧，你能說出他們中的任何一個人的名字嗎？然後他們輸入他們可以命名的。與該領域的任何其他競爭對手相比，能夠說出 Expensify 名字的人要多得多。

Now, the next question is, do you know any of these companies in a list? And that's much easier. So unacquainted awareness is the hardest metric to increase, and we've seen huge increases there. So we're very excited. We think that this is going to be great for the business.

現在，下一個問題是，您知道清單中的任何一家公司嗎？這要容易得多。因此，陌生人認知是最難提高的指標，但我們已經看到了巨大的提升。所以我們非常興奮。我們認為這對業務來說將是一件好事。

Way more people know about us now, and we think that's going to kind of trickle down and create a halo effect -- a positive halo effect on the business for a long time.

現在有更多人了解我們，我們認為這會產生涓滴效應並產生光環效應——長期對我們的業務產生積極的光環效應。

Yeah.

是的。

All right, now I'm going to pass it over to David.

好的，現在我要把它交給大衛。

Great. Let's talk about Q2. And so we've been hard at work, and particularly we've been preparing for F1 for a long time. And recognizing that F1 is a global sport, we put a lot of work into improving the expensive eyes availability and performance and just overall experience in a wide variety of F1 familiar countries.

偉大的。讓我們來談談第二季。因此我們一直在努力工作，特別是為 F1 做了很長時間的準備。並且認識到 F1 是一項全球性運動，我們投入了大量精力來提高昂貴眼鏡的可用性和性能，以及在眾多熟悉 F1 的國家/地區的整體體驗。

And so we've added support for over 10,000 banks globally, whole bunch of United States, a whole bunch all over the world. And just to make sure that because one of the expensive big differentiations is that we're really good for third-party card support.

因此，我們增加了對全球 10,000 多家銀行的支持，包括美國境內以及世界各地的許多銀行。只是為了確保這一點，因為其中一個昂貴的巨大差異是我們確實擅長支援第三方卡。

Of course, we prefer to use our expensive by card. But if you don't, you can always bring your own card. And that's a huge thing. We're the best for that in the industry. And so now we're also expanding that strength globally.

當然，我們更喜歡使用我們昂貴的卡片。但如果沒有，您也可以攜帶自己的卡片。這是一件大事。我們是業界最好的。因此，現在我們也正在全球擴大這項實力。

Additionally, the nuts and bolts of being able to do reimbursements, again, it's very good for a reimbursement heavy company. That maybe doesn't issue corporate cards to their employees. Now, those reimbursements work even more countries around the world.

此外，對於報銷業務繁重的公司來說，能夠進行報銷的具體細節是非常好的。他們可能不會發給員工公司卡。現在，這些報銷制度已覆蓋全球更多國家。

We've added support for buying Expensify in Euro. So previously you could buy it in pounds, US dollars, things like this. But now you can also support the Euro as well, again, just making it a little bit easier to adopt throughout Europe.

我們增加了使用歐元購買 Expensify 的支援。以前你可以用英鎊、美元等貨幣購買。但是現在您也可以支持歐元，這使其在整個歐洲更容易採用。

Also very exciting, the Expensify card itself is being expanded to work in the UK and EU. That's coming out very soon here. So we're very, very excited about that.

同樣令人興奮的是，Expensify 卡本身正在擴展到英國和歐盟。這很快就會出來。所以我們對此感到非常非常興奮。

Overall, it's about making sure that it will be capture this long-term investment F1 is about making sure that the markets where F1 is really popular are also good markets for Expensify.

總的來說，這是為了確保能夠獲得 F1 的長期投資，確保 F1 真正受歡迎的市場也是 Expensify 的良好市場。

One thing I've been putting a lot of my time in, my top priority is working on our Concierge AI. Now we've talked about it a lot in the past. I'd say probably the biggest change here is really dialing in sort of the technical foundation of our AI.

有一件事我投入了大量的時間，我的首要任務就是研究我們的禮賓人工智慧。我們過去已經多次談論過這個問題。我想說，這裡最大的變化可能是真正撥入我們人工智慧的技術基礎。

Now I know it's about a word salad here, but for the buzzwords, basically saying one thing is making sure that the concierge is multimodal, meaning that it can natively process not just chat, but also images and so forth. So if you upload an image, you can identify if it's a screenshot of maybe our app or a screenshot of something else versus maybe it is a receipt that it needs to take different action on. Things like these.

現在我知道這是關於文字的雜談，但對於流行語來說，基本上說的一件事是確保禮賓服務是多模式的，這意味著它不僅可以本地處理聊天，還可以處理圖像等等。因此，如果您上傳圖像，您可以識別它是我們的應用程式的螢幕截圖還是其他內容的螢幕截圖，或者它可能是需要採取不同操作的收據。諸如此類的事情。

Additionally, using technology called a tree of thought design, basically one of the challenges for any AI system is allowing to do a wide variety of things. And this new technique basically uses a hierarchical design that will categorize the intent of the user and then take it down to different sort of train of reasoning for different types of intents, whether you're doing customer support, whether you're trying to like modify expenses, whatever it might be.

此外，使用一種稱為思維樹設計的技術，基本上任何人工智慧系統面臨的挑戰之一就是允許做各種各樣的事情。這項新技術基本上採用了分層設計，對用戶的意圖進行分類，然後針對不同類型的意圖將其分解為不同類型的推理，無論您是在提供客戶支持，還是試圖修改費用，無論它是什麼。

We're to have a lot more to say about that probably in the upcoming quarter. But this is a major focus of my personal time. And I know a lot of the company is very, excited about it.

我們可能會在下一季對此有更多評論。但這是我個人時間的主要關注點。我知道很多公司對此都非常興奮。

Another highlight is expense by travel has been doing really good. Just in the last quarter, up 44%. I think July has been very strong as well. I think overall the way to think about expense by travel is it's really the new expense by card in the sense that just like expense by card has really shown that it can contribute in such a positive way to top line revenue and especially free cash flow generation.

另一個亮點是旅行費用表現非常好。僅在上個季度就成長了 44%。我認為七月份的表現也非常強勁。我認為，總體而言，旅行消費實際上就是一種新的信用卡消費，就像信用卡消費確實表明它可以為營業收入，特別是自由現金流的產生做出積極貢獻一樣。

I think travel is going to do the same thing. I believe it's actually outperforming the initial days of the expense by card. And so I'm just very excited about that.

我認為旅行也會起到同樣的作用。我相信它的表現其實比信用卡消費初期好。我對此感到非常興奮。

And then of course, finally, we've always had a long-term strategy of positive cash flow generation and that we use as to, you know, steadily repurchase shares, return some of that money back to investors. And so all of this is in line with a high-level strategy that we've had for a long time. But basically to kind of review the big plan here, step one, is we've invested for years to build this entirely new technology foundation that we think can power the next, you know, decade of growth.

當然，最後，我們一直有一個長期的正現金流產生策略，我們用它來穩定回購股票，將部分資金回饋給投資人。所以這一切都符合我們長期以來的高層策略。但基本上回顧一下這裡的大計劃，第一步是我們多年來一直投資建立這個全新的技術基礎，我們認為它可以推動未來十年的成長。

And that this is a major, major upgrade to the fundamental technology of the app, the product to have what we call kind of a real-time infrastructure, meaning that if two people are looking at the page at the same time, the thing will update automatically.

這是對該應用程式基礎技術的重大升級，該產品擁有我們所謂的即時基礎設施，這意味著如果兩個人同時查看該頁面，內容就會自動更新。

Think like Google Docs or other sort of more real-time applications, but bring that into the expense management space. It's a chat-centric design, which is really important because that allows you to collaborate in real-time on any object in the application, but also collaborate with our AI, which increasingly important. And fundamentally, it's just a cross-platform design. Everything works extremely well, not just on desktop, but all of the functionality works on mobile.

想想 Google Docs 或其他更即時的應用程序，但將其帶入費用管理領域。它是一種以聊天為中心的設計，這非常重要，因為它允許您即時協作應用程式中的任何對象，還可以與我們的人工智慧協作，這一點越來越重要。從根本上來說，這只是一種跨平台設計。一切都運作得非常好，不僅在桌面上，而且所有功能都可以在行動裝置上運行。

This is a major differentiation in the industry, and we've seen this as really resonant with customers, that they don't have to pull out a laptop to do things. It was an increasingly mobile workforce, and the admin's on the road and so forth. And if there's just more capabilities in the product, if you need to issue a card, stop a card, whatever it might be, you can do everything on the road as well.

這是行業的一個主要區別，我們發現這確實引起了客戶的共鳴，他們不必拿出筆記型電腦就可以做事。勞動力的流動性越來越大，管理人員也在路上等等。如果產品具有更多功能，那麼如果您需要發卡、停卡或其他任何操作，您都可以在路上完成所有操作。

Anyway, everything I just mentioned there, all of this sort of fundamental upgrade to the technology platform itself is done. It's in production. It's being used by customers. And so that's been a huge lift, but thankfully it's behind us. All of our attention right now is focused on, I'd say, two things.

無論如何，我剛才提到的一切，對技術平臺本身的所有根本性升級都已經完成。正在生產中。它正在被客戶使用。這是一個巨大的進步，但值得慶幸的是，它已經過去了。我想說，我們現在所有的注意力都集中在兩件事上。

One is just migrating customers from classic to new Expensify. Our business model, as Ryan mentioned earlier, is a bottom-up business model. It's just all driven by word of mouth. It's all about basically encouraging people to talk to their friends, and then their friends adopt Expensify inside their company as an individual, and then we turn every expense report into a marketing message directly to the decision maker.

一是將客戶從傳統版 Expensify 遷移到新版。我們的商業模式，正如 Ryan 之前提到的，是一種自下而上的商業模式。一切都只是靠口耳相傳來推動的。這基本上是為了鼓勵人們與他們的朋友交談，然後他們的朋友在公司內部以個人身份採用 Expensify，然後我們將每份費用報告轉化為直接發送給決策者的行銷訊息。

And so this has been our business model from the start. This is what sort of powers us along. And the word of mouth is a fundamental numbers game. You need to get enough people talking about you to their friends in order to generate that long-term lead stream.

從一開始這就是我們的商業模式。這就是我們前進的動力。口耳相傳本質上是個數字遊戲。您需要讓足夠多的人向他們的朋友談論您，以便產生長期的潛在客戶流。

And so it's so important for us to get back to growth. It requires getting our customers onto new Expensify, so that our existing users have something to talk about. Word of mouth is about novelty to a degree, and one of the most novel things is adopting a new platform, seeing all the new capabilities, and seeing the result of our investments into this new functionality. So it's incredibly important for us to get all of our customers from class to new. That's where so much of our attention is.

因此，恢復成長對我們來說非常重要。它需要讓我們的客戶加入新的 Expensify，以便我們現有的用戶有話可談。口碑在某種程度上與新奇有關，而最新奇的事情之一就是採用一個新平台，看到所有新功能，並看到我們對這項新功能的投資結果。因此，對我們來說，讓所有顧客從一流變成新客戶是極為重要的。這就是我們關注的重點。

On the other side, as I mentioned, that we've made some bold claims about trying to become -- you know, we think the world's foremost expert in financial AI. It's a bold claim, I understand. But we're working very hard to make that true. And so a lot of our time is being spent on focusing on not just the fundamental AI technology itself, because I think that the key to making a good AI even smarter than the superintelligence already out there is to tightly integrate it with the data that you have, so that you can act upon it in a real-time manner, collaborate on it with the AI. It's very different design.

另一方面，正如我所提到的，我們已經做出了一些大膽的宣稱，試圖成為——你知道，我們認為我們是世界上金融人工智慧領域的頂尖專家。我知道這是一個大膽的言論。但我們正在努力實現這一目標。因此，我們花了大量的時間不僅僅關注基礎人工智慧技術本身，因為我認為，讓優秀的人工智慧比現有的超級智慧更聰明的關鍵在於將其與你擁有的數據緊密整合，以便你能夠即時採取行動，並與人工智慧協作。這是非常不同的設計。

And I think you're going to see a lot of applications going forward are going to look more like because the UI of AI is chat. And anything you can do to infuse chat throughout your system puts your system more in touch with the capabilities of AI and allows your customers to communicate with AI in more context. So anyway, we're to have a lot more to talk about that in the future. It's just something that I'm personally very excited by.

我認為你將會看到很多應用程式未來會看起來更像聊天，因為 AI 的 UI 就是聊天。您可以透過任何方式在整個系統中融入聊天功能，使您的系統與 AI 的功能更加緊密地聯繫在一起，並允許您的客戶在更多情境中與 AI 進行交流。所以無論如何，我們將來還會就此進行更多討論。這只是我個人非常興奮的事情。

And then I would say, in the future, after we've migrated our customers from classic to new, after we've rolled out this AI and infused it throughout the application, then of course, there's still the don't forget about the super app design. Right now, we're focused on expense card travel but we haven't given up on our ambitions on invoicing, bill pay, even payroll in the future, things like this. And so the goal is to build up this platform that has a universal and global payments engine.

然後我想說，在未來，在我們將客戶從傳統應用程式遷移到新應用程式之後，在我們推出這種人工智慧並將其融入整個應用程式之後，當然，仍然不要忘記超級應用程式的設計。目前，我們專注於費用卡旅行，但我們並沒有放棄對發票、帳單支付甚至未來薪資等方面的雄心。因此，我們的目標是建立一個具有通用和全球支付引擎的平台。

And then we can use this engine for a wide variety of use cases, not just the ones that we currently support, but those in the future as well. And then because of sort of this singular design behind all of this, we think we can offer all of these use cases in a really compelling fashion at a super low price and a very low cost of sale. So if we can roll out eight products for $9 a month, we think that's an incredibly compelling value proposition to customers, and so that's a major part of the future strategy.

然後我們可以將該引擎用於各種各樣的用例，不僅是我們目前支援的用例，還有未來支援的用例。然後，由於所有這些背後都有這種獨特的設計，我們認為我們可以以超低的價格和非常低的銷售成本以真正引人注目的方式提供所有這些用例。因此，如果我們能夠以每月 9 美元的價格推出 8 種產品，我們認為這對客戶來說是一個極具吸引力的價值主張，因此這也是未來策略的重要組成部分。

And then finally after that, I the long-term lead generation is really about simplifying the functionality down to the consumer, so that it's not just about talking to your friends who are in other companies about doing essentially reports. But talking to your family, talk to anyone, and anyone who spends money and trying to be relevant to a much broader range of people, that's ultimately what creates the household name, the broad awareness of Expensify and the ability to do something with it, talk to their friends and the word of mouth that can generate positive lead generation for years and years to come.

最後，我認為長期的潛在客戶開發實際上就是將功能簡化給消費者，這樣就不僅僅是與其他公司的朋友談論如何製作報告了。但是，與你的家人交談，與任何人交談，與任何花錢的人交談，並試圖與更廣泛的人群建立聯繫，這最終創造了家喻戶曉的名字，廣泛宣傳 Expensify 並有能力利用它做一些事情，與他們的朋友交談，以及口耳相傳，這些可以在未來幾年產生積極的潛在客戶。

Anyway, the plan that we've had, the plan that we've been working on, and I think we feel very confident in the planning of the future.

無論如何，我們已經有了計劃，我們一直在努力製定計劃，我認為我們對未來的規劃非常有信心。

Other than that, I think that's about it. So I think we'll open up for questions.

除此之外，我想就這些了。所以我想我們可以開始問問題了。

Perfect. First up, have Citi. I believe, George, are you on the line with us?

完美的。首先，有花旗銀行。我相信，喬治，您和我們在線上嗎？

I'm here. Hi, David, Ryan, Nikki. Thanks for having me here.

我在這裡。嗨，David、Ryan、Nikki。謝謝你邀請我來這裡。

George, good to see you.

喬治，很高興見到你。

Yeah, good to see you guys too. Maybe just to start with the exciting news, F1 movie. I think I'm one of the few people on the planet who still hasn't seen it. So I'm glad that's coming back to theaters. I'll have to catch it in the second round.

是的，我也很高興見到你們。也許只是從令人興奮的消息開始，F1 電影。我想我是這個星球上少數幾個還沒看到它的人之一。所以我很高興它能重返戲院。我必須在第二輪抓住它。

You guys talked a lot about some of the brand awareness increases there. At least in terms of its conversion to paying users, it seems like that metric hasn't moved much yet, at least, as it relates to this initiative. Can you just talk to us about what you're expecting on that front? Is this kind of like a still to come maybe in the next quarter or two? Or is this more of a slow and steady type of improvement? How should we think about that?

你們談論了很多關於品牌知名度的提升。至少就其轉化為付費用戶而言，似乎該指標尚未發生太大變化，至少就此舉措而言。您能否跟我們談談您在這方面的期望？這是否可能在下一兩季才會實現？或者這更像是一種緩慢而穩定的改進？我們該如何看待這個問題？

Yeah, great question. So the movie came out with, I believe, three business days left in the quarter, so basically the end of Q2. In terms of impact for Q2, not a lot, right? All these numbers that we talked about today, those are things that we've seen since the movie has been released. They're not in the Q2 results, so we would expect the impact from the movie to be in the future.

是的，很好的問題。所以我相信這部電影上映時，本季還剩下三個工作日，所以基本上是第二季的結束。就第二季的影響而言，影響不大，對嗎？我們今天討論的所有這些數字都是自電影上映以來我們所看到的。它們不在第二季的業績中，因此我們預計電影的影響將在未來顯現。

And again, with a big brand awareness play, it's not performance marketing, right? This isn't [ad words], so it's not a direct one-to-one. It's kind of a longer time horizon. So we expect that it's rising tide, lifts all ships, it's kind of a halo effect on everything we do going forward in the future.

再說了，大力宣傳品牌知名度，這不是績效行銷，對嗎？這不是[廣告詞]，所以不是直接的一對一。這是一種較長的時間範圍。因此，我們預計這將是水漲船高，對我們未來所做的一切都會產生一種光環效應。

Okay, that's helpful. And then maybe just sticking on this marketing topic, I think one of the topical things in the space of the PLG software has been changes to the Google search algorithm, kind of that AI blur surfacing up top and changes to web traffic that's engendered. Is that at all relevant for your guys' business? And have you guys seen any metrics as it relates to that? Any adjustments to how you guys are thinking about marketing from that channel?

好的，這很有幫助。然後也許只是堅持這個行銷話題，我認為 PLG 軟體領域的熱門話題之一是谷歌搜尋演算法的變化，那種 AI 模糊浮現在頂部並改變由此產生的網路流量。這與你們的業務有關嗎？你們有看過與此相關的任何指標嗎？你們對於透過該管道進行行銷有什麼調整嗎？

Sure, so, Expensify before ChatGPT, we've always invested very heavily in SEO. And so I think we've got incredibly good, just general search engine sort of placements across a huge range of keywords. I think we've talked about that in past years or past quarters and so forth.

當然，在 ChatGPT 之前，Expensify 一直在 SEO 方面投入大量資金。因此我認為我們在大量關鍵字中獲得了非常好的、類似於通用搜尋引擎的排名。我想我們在過去幾年或過去幾個季度等等已經討論過這個問題了。

A nice thing about that is because all of the AIs are trained with the internet, because the internet is already talking about Expensify, that means the AIs themselves talk primarily about Expensify. I don't have the data off the top of my head, but I know that -- we've looked into in the past, and Expensify by the strength, is very highly in ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini, and so forth.

這樣做的好處是，所有的人工智慧都是透過網路進行訓練的，因為網路已經在談論 Expensify，這意味著人工智慧本身主要在談論 Expensify。我目前沒有現成的數據，但我知道——我們過去研究過，Expensify 的實力在 ChatGPT、Claude、Gemini 等方面都非常高。

And so I think that our SEO strategy has already put us into a good position to be recommended as a top option by these tools. And furthermore, we've doubled down on that by making sure that they're optimizing for the tools even more. And so I'm with you in terms of the future of search is really about these chat-based AIs and we are surely not going to be left unaware about that.

因此我認為我們的 SEO 策略已經使我們處於有利地位，可以被這些工具推薦為首選。此外，我們也加倍努力，確保他們進一步優化工具。因此，我同意你的觀點，搜尋的未來實際上是關於這些基於聊天的人工智慧，我們肯定不會對此一無所知。

So we're preparing for that and taking advantage of that now.

因此，我們正在為此做準備並利用這一點。

Okay, great. Thanks for taking the questions here.

好的，太好了。感謝您在這裡回答問題。

Great. Aaron, I believe I have you on the line. And so, dial in, so let me get you unmuted here.

偉大的。亞倫，我相信你已經在線上了。因此，請撥入，然後讓我在這裡為您取消靜音。

Great, thank you. I can hear you. Can hear me?

太好了，謝謝。我聽到你的聲音。能聽見我說話嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Thank you. You put 14% of your payroll into GAP R&D this quarter, 9% adjusted. Ramps have closed in March, so 50% of payroll goes into R&D there. Do think the small scale of your business is a headwind to keeping up with the pace of product delivery we're seeing from scale vendors in the space?

謝謝。本季您將 14% 的薪資投入 GAP 研發中，調整後為 9%。坡道已於三月關閉，因此 50% 的工資都用於那裡的研發。您是否認為，由於您的業務規模較小，無法跟上該領域規模供應商提供的產品交付速度？

Thanks for the question. I think that we have an extremely large group of our employees focused on R&D. And I think we're trying to build maybe different products. We're building one product that is tightly integrated with each other. And I think the rest of the market's building more siloed products.

謝謝你的提問。我認為我們有大量員工專注於研發。我認為我們正在嘗試打造不同的產品。我們正在打造一款彼此緊密整合的產品。我認為市場上的其他產品正在創造更多孤立的產品。

So you have your expense, then you have a different product, which is your invoicing. And they are all kind of like mini companies within one large company. And we're building just something different, which is one product -- basically one payments engine that can handle everything in the back office, no matter what you need. So it's very integrated. It doesn't require as many people.

因此，您有支出，然後您有不同的產品，這就是您的發票。它們都像是大公司內部的迷你公司。我們正在建立一些不同的東西，這是一種產品——基本上是一個支付引擎，它可以處理後台的所有事務，無論您需要什麼。所以它非常集成。它不需要那麼多人。

Do you agree?

你同意？

Yeah, I agree with that. And I think that you're right. With respect to R&D, I think that is tricky from an allocations perspective . Because so much of our work is about improving technology that's already in production. And so the separation between ways with R&D and sort of expanding something for new use cases as opposed to just as Ryan was saying, standing up an entirely new system.

是的，我同意。我認為你是對的。關於研發，我認為從分配的角度來看，這很棘手。因為我們的許多工作都是為了改進已經投入生產的技術。因此，研發方式與擴展新用例的方式是分開的，而不是像 Ryan 所說的那樣，建立一個全新的系統。

It just produces kind of different allocations. I'm not an accountant here, but I'd say that, fundamentally, I know I spend all my time in R&D. And a lot of people do as well, but I understand that the accounting of how that comes out for a public company versus a private company might sort of produce different results.

它只是產生了不同類型的分配。我不是這裡的會計，但我想說，從根本上說，我知道我把所有的時間都花在了研發上。很多人也會這樣做，但我知道，上市公司和私人公司的會計可能會產生不同的結果。

That's really helpful. And then I guess a similar question to follow up. Do you think the increasing application of AI product development for expense management use cases has the potential to erode the moat you've built around SMB and VSB customers where historically you've been the only one who could get the unit economics to work down market [and then send some of that space cost out?]

這真的很有幫助。然後我猜想接下來會有類似的問題。您是否認為，人工智慧產品開發在費用管理用例中的應用日益增多，可能會削弱您圍繞中小企業和 VSB 客戶建立的護城河？從歷史上看，您是唯一一家能夠讓單位經濟效益在低端市場發揮作用的公司。[然後將部分空間成本送出去？ ]

That's interesting. I kind of think it's the opposite. In that, I mean -- so a lot of ink has been spilled in this topic and we can talk forever about it. But I think that we're going through a shift in user experience design. It's kind of like, you know, initially it was all desktop software and there's a bunch of patterns built up around that, and then it went to web, and then basically all the software was reinterpreted through more of a web-centric design.

那很有意思。我卻認為情況恰恰相反。我的意思是——關於這個主題已經有很多文章討論，我們可以永遠談論它。但我認為我們正在經歷使用者體驗設計的轉變。你知道，這有點像最初都是桌面軟體，並且圍繞它建立了一系列模式，然後它進入網絡，然後基本上所有軟體都透過以網絡為中心的設計重新詮釋。

And then mobile came out, and then all those existing software was reinterpreted through sort of more of a small screen application design. And I think we're going through kind of a fourth transition here, where every application is going to be reimagined through a chat-centric design.

然後行動裝置出現了，所有現有的軟體都透過小螢幕應用程式設計進行了重新詮釋。我認為我們正在經歷第四次轉變，每個應用程式都將透過以聊天為中心的設計進行重新構想。

And I think I kind of like where you're going in terms of it can be kind of a normalizing effect, because it strips away so many differences. And that historically, like the difference between an enterprise app and a consumer app just looks quite visually different. Whereas for an AI chat-centric environment, they might look quite similar.

我認為我有點喜歡你所說的，因為它可以產生一種正常化的效果，因為它消除了很多差異。從歷史上看，企業應用程式和消費者應用程式之間的差異在視覺上看起來非常不同。而對於以 AI 聊天為中心的環境，它們可能看起來非常相似。

But I think it's actually -- the difference, however, is it is much easier to make a simple product complicated than to make a complicated product simple. And so I think that the enterprise space is primarily focused on building complicated products sold to a part of the market that can whether and endure and appreciate that complexity. It's very hard for an existing product, especially the very existing complicated product, to be reduced down to the simplicity of a chat-based interface.

但我認為實際上——區別在於，將簡單的產品複雜化比將複雜的產品簡化要容易得多。因此，我認為企業領域主要致力於建立複雜的產品，並將其出售給能夠承受並欣賞這種複雜性的市場部分。對於現有產品，尤其是現有的非常複雜的產品來說，很難簡化為基於聊天的介面的簡單性。

Now, I think that's why we've worked so hard for a long time to do exactly that. We're speaking from experience here. It's not a straightforward process to make something this simple, and it's not a straightforward process to make something as infused with AI throughout the entire thing.

現在，我認為這就是我們長期努力實現這一目標的原因。我們在此談論的是經驗之談。製作如此簡單的東西並不是一個簡單的過程，製作如此在整個過程中註入人工智慧的東西也不是一個簡單的過程。

When you look at, I think, you know -- who knows, every company's, there's a lot of good companies out there and we're all taking our swing at this world. But I think that we're going to see most of them take sort of a chat agent on the side, where basically your application's largely unchanged and then there's like a clippy-like thing that appears in the side that basically tries to navigate around.

當你觀察時，我想，你知道──誰知道呢，每家公司都有很多優秀的公司，我們都在這個世界上努力奮鬥。但我認為，我們會看到它們中的大多數都採用一種側面的聊天代理，基本上你的應用程式基本上保持不變，然後會出現一個類似於夾子的東西出現在側面，基本上試圖進行導航。

And I people take that design because that's an easy technical design to do because it separates your AI functionality from the rest of the UI. And I think we're to see a lot of the more enterprise competition doing that because they're forced into it by their architectural decisions.

我之所以採用這種設計，是因為這是一種簡單的技術設計，因為它將 AI 功能與 UI 的其餘部分分開。我認為，我們將看到更多的企業競爭對手這樣做，因為他們是被架構決策所迫而這樣做的。

We've taken a very, very different path. Concierge is truly at every part of our application and it's infused in a very, very deep level. No one has a design like us. And I think that's I was saying earlier on, I think you're to see more more applications moving in a direction like Expensify, recognizing that Windows 95 the style AI, it just isn't going to do the trick. It's not going to get you the kind of integrated experience that's going to compel.

我們走的是一條截然不同的路。禮賓服務確實存在於我們應用程式的每個部分，並且融入到非常深的層次。沒有人擁有像我們這樣的設計。我想這就是我之前所說的，我認為你會看到越來越多的應用程式朝著像 Expensify 這樣的方向發展，認識到 Windows 95 風格的 AI 是行不通的。它不會帶給你那種令人信服的綜合體驗。

And so I think it's actually -- it's very hard for them to come down to simplify their product to go to the SMB. But I think it's much easier for us, because we've already put the work in there. It already built our business in the SMB. We've already seen it's much easier for us to sort of attack the enterprise. I mean, that's how we get our enterprise customers historically, is that we get them while they're small and then we just hold onto them forever. And so I would rather be in our position going after their market than in their market.

所以我認為實際上——他們很難簡化他們的產品以適應中小企業。但我認為這對我們來說要容易得多，因為我們已經投入了工作。它已經在 SMB 中建立了我們的業務。我們已經看到，攻擊企業變得容易得多。我的意思是，這就是我們過去獲得企業客戶的方式，我們在他們規模還小的時候就獲得他們，然後我們就永遠留住他們。因此，我寧願站在我們的立場去追逐他們的市場，而不是進入他們的市場。

It also doesn't fundamentally change their business model. They still have huge sales teams.

它也不會從根本上改變他們的商業模式。他們仍然擁有龐大的銷售團隊。

The economics aren't, I mean --

我的意思是，經濟狀況並非如此--

I think they're still fielding a huge sales arm, basically. So it should enable a new challenger to come in and do what we're doing, otherwise, we haven't seen competitors do that. They've come at it from a different card-first angle. But that's not AI-based. I mean that's just -- they have a card angle versus an AI angle.

我認為他們基本上仍在部署龐大的銷售部門。因此，它應該能夠讓新的挑戰者進來做我們正在做的事情，否則，我們還沒有看到競爭對手這樣做。他們從不同的卡片優先角度來解決這個問題。但這不是基於人工智慧的。我的意思是那隻是——他們有一個卡片角度與 AI 角度。

Agree. Yeah, I think they had their big play and it was a card-first angle, and they leaned really far over their skis to push it, and they did a great job with that. But I think that that's their thing. Their thing is card based. I am with you. I think our thing is more AI based, and I would be more concerned about some new entrant sort of stealing the industry than them.

同意。是的，我認為他們打出了精彩的比賽，這是一個以牌為先的角度，他們傾盡全力去推動它，他們在這方面做得很好。但我認為那是他們的事。他們的東西是基於卡片的。我和你在一起。我認為我們的產品更多地基於人工智慧，我更擔心一些新進入者搶佔這個行業。

That's great perspective. Thank you, guys.

這是非常好的觀點。謝謝你們。

Fabulous. Lake Street, I believe. Max, are on the line?

太棒了。我相信是湖街。馬克斯，在線嗎？

Hey guys, thanks for taking my questions. First one's kind of a two-parter around go-to-market strategy. Just with the new F1 movie, I'm curious to know -- I'm not sure if you guys get this, track this information, but in terms of new customer ads, information that the team would have, but what percentage of these new ads may be joined Expensify because of the F1 exposure?

嘿夥計們，謝謝你們回答我的問題。首先，本文分為兩部分，分別討論市場進入策略。就新的 F1 電影而言，我很好奇——我不確定你們是否了解這些信息，跟踪這些信息，但就新客戶廣告而言，團隊會擁有這些信息，但這些新廣告中有多少比例可能會因為 F1 的曝光而加入 Expensify？

And then on top of that, I know word of mouth is kind of a big deal with you guys and getting the expense by name out there. I mean, is there any other investment initiatives you guys can implement to kind of gain traction like the legacy subscription business?

除此之外，我知道口耳相傳對你們來說非常重要，並且要讓大家知道費用的來龍去脈。我的意思是，你們是否可以實施其他投資舉措來獲得像傳統訂閱業務那樣的吸引力？

Great question. So we don't have any F1-based new customer ad information to share right now in Q2 because again, it came out right at the end.

好問題。因此，我們目前在第二季沒有任何基於 F1 的新客戶廣告訊息可以分享，因為它是在最後才發布的。

I guess, maybe for July and August, I guess.

我想，也許七月和八月吧。

We don't have anything to share right now. It's something we can definitely talk about in the future. But to answer your other question, which is do we have other kind of follow-on plans to F1? We do certainly have more marketing plans in place.

我們現在沒有任何可以分享的資訊。這是我們未來肯定可以談論的事情。但要回答你的另一個問題，那就是我們是否有其他類型的 F1 後續計畫？我們確實制定了更多的行銷計劃。

We're going to do [hop in] and not the scale of this Blackbuster movie, but this isn't a one-and-done, see-you-in-a-couple-of-years type of thing. We're going continue to invest in marketing, and also try to harvest this great awareness that we've created.

我們要做的不是像《Blackbuster》那樣規模的電影，但這也不是那種一蹴可幾、幾年後再看的電影。我們將繼續投資於行銷，並努力收穫我們已經創造的巨大知名度。

Yeah, I mean, we've been, obviously, have a cash flow positive business for a reason. I think it has built up quite a nice war chest even while paying off our debt. And so I think that we have shown that we're very willing to take big swings when we think there's a big swing to be taken.

是的，我的意思是，顯然，我們的業務一直保持正現金流是有原因的。我認為，即使在償還債務的同時，它也累積了相當可觀的資金。所以我認為，我們已經表明，當我們認為需要採取重大措施時，我們非常願意採取重大舉措。

And so we don't normally announce this right now but certainly, this isn't the first time to move gentlemen day, and it won't be the last.

因此，我們通常不會現在宣布這一點，但可以肯定的是，這不是第一次舉辦紳士日活動，也不會是最後一次。

Yeah. I mean, last one for me and I'll get back into queue. It looks like Expensify Travel's trending well.

是的。我的意思是，對我來說這是最後一個了，我會回到隊列中。看起來 Expensify Travel 的趨勢很好。

We just, I just got back from GBTA, the Goldfinch Travel Alliance Conference, and it went great. Like we said before, a lot of customer enthusiasm. We saw great quarter-on-quarter growth, and even in July, we saw huge growth, just month on month. So it is growing extremely well, and customers are trying it, loving it.

我剛從 GBTA（金翅雀旅遊聯盟會議）回來，一切都很順利。正如我們之前所說的，顧客非常熱情。我們看到了季度環比的巨大增長，甚至在 7 月份，我們也看到了環比的巨大增長。因此，它發展得非常好，顧客們都嘗試過，並且喜歡它。

It's kind of a flywheel in terms of the sale cycle is little longer. They do demos, they do highlights, then they started to roll out and then it grows and grows. So I think we're starting to see that. So nothing specific to share on where he did, but I guess the color commentary is that it is continuing to accelerate and it's great.

就銷售週期而言，這就像一個飛輪，稍微長一點。他們做演示，做亮點，然後開始推出，然後不斷發展。所以我認為我們開始看到這一點。所以沒有什麼具體的東西可以分享他做了什麼，但我猜彩色評論是它正在繼續加速並且很棒。

Thanks, guys.

謝謝大家。

Great. And then I have our last one. I apologize, I'm not sure who it is of our last few analysts. I've got someone on a 415 dial in?

偉大的。接下來是最後一個。抱歉，我不確定我們最後幾位分析師是誰。有人透過 415 撥入我的號碼嗎？

Give me just a second to try and unmute here.

請給我一點時間嘗試取消靜音。

A bit of a mystery caller. You know, I like it.

有點神秘的來電者。你知道，我喜歡它。

They're authenticated, but it didn't come --

他們已經通過了身份驗證，但還沒有收到--

Long time listener, first time caller kind of situation?

長期聽眾，第一次打電話，這種情況是怎麼樣的？

All right, let's wrap it up.

好了，我們結束吧。

Cool. All right, well, thank you so much, everyone. As always, it's a pleasure. Very excited to be sharing the results of Q2 and looking forward to Q3.

涼爽的。好的，非常感謝大家。一如既往，我很榮幸。非常高興能夠分享第二季的結果並期待第三季。

All right, thank you.

好的，謝謝。