Expensify Inc (EXFY) 2022 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Q4 and Fiscal Year 2022 Expensify Earnings Call. Our CEO, David Barrett, couldn't be here today, he had a personal emergency come up last minute, but the show must go on. So I'm Ryan Schaffer, Chief Financial Officer for Expensify. We also have our Chief Operating Officer, Anu on the line. We're going to be taking you through the call today.

大家好。歡迎來到第四季度和 2022 財年 Expensify 收益電話會議。我們的首席執行官大衛·巴雷特 (David Barrett) 今天無法到場，他在最後一刻遇到了個人緊急情況，但演出必須繼續進行。我是 Expensify 的首席財務官 Ryan Schaffer。我們的首席運營官 Anu 也在線。我們今天將帶您完成電話會議。

And without further ado, we're going to hand it over to Anu, who's going to take us through the legal disclosures.

事不宜遲，我們將把它交給 Anu，他將帶我們完成法律披露。

Good afternoon, everyone. So disclaimer. Before we begin, please note that all of the information presented on today's call is unaudited. And during the course of this call, management may make forward-looking statements within the meaning of the federal securities laws. These statements are based on management's current expectations and beliefs and involve risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those described in these forward-looking statements.

大家下午好。所以免責聲明。在我們開始之前，請注意今天電話會議上提供的所有信息都未經審計。在此次電話會議期間，管理層可能會做出聯邦證券法意義上的前瞻性陳述。這些陳述基於管理層當前的預期和信念，涉及可能導致實際結果與這些前瞻性陳述中描述的結果存在重大差異的風險和不確定性。

Forward-looking statements in the earnings release that we issued today, along with the comments on this call, are made only as of today and will not be updated as actual events unfold. Please refer to today's press release and our filings with the SEC for a detailed discussion of the risks that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed or implied in any forward-looking statements made today.

我們今天發布的收益報告中的前瞻性陳述以及對此次電話會議的評論僅在今天發表，不會隨著實際事件的展開而更新。請參閱今天的新聞稿和我們提交給美國證券交易委員會的文件，詳細討論可能導致實際結果與今天發表的任何前瞻性陳述中明示或暗示的結果存在重大差異的風險。

Please also note that on today's call, management will refer to certain non-GAAP financial measures. While we believe these non-GAAP financial measures provide useful information for investors, the presentation of this information is not intended to be considered in isolation or as a substitute for the financial information presented in accordance with GAAP. Please refer to today's press release or the investor presentation for a reconciliation of these non-GAAP financial measures to their most comparable GAAP measures.

另請注意，在今天的電話會議上，管理層將參考某些非 GAAP 財務指標。雖然我們認為這些非 GAAP 財務指標為投資者提供了有用的信息，但這些信息的呈現並不是為了孤立地考慮或替代根據 GAAP 呈現的財務信息。請參閱今天的新聞稿或投資者介紹，了解這些非 GAAP 財務指標與其最具可比性的 GAAP 指標的對賬情況。

That out of the way, next slide, I'm very happy to be here to remind you guys about Expensify's long-term strategy and why you should believe in this company. Next slide. There are 3 secrets to our long-term success. And you've heard all this before, but it bears mention again. The first is the market is enormous and largely untapped. There are far more small businesses and far more employees that work at small businesses out there than there are enterprise companies. And most of them do not use any kind of product today for expense management, so it's largely greenfield.

順便說一句，下一張幻燈片，我很高興能在這裡提醒大家 Expensify 的長期戰略以及為什麼你們應該相信這家公司。下一張幻燈片。我們的長期成功有 3 個秘訣。你以前聽過這一切，但值得再次提及。首先是市場巨大且大部分尚未開發。與企業公司相比，小企業和在小企業工作的員工要多得多。而且他們中的大多數人今天不使用任何類型的產品來進行費用管理，因此它主要是未開發的。

Second is we have a very unique bottom-up acquisition model. And why that's interesting or bears mention is because this unique bottom-up acquisition model is really primed to take this enormous untapped largely, small and medium business market opportunity, and we'll talk about that really briefly further down as well. And last but not the least, there is no dearth of ambition at Expensify. We have our sights set on 1 billion user platform opportunity, and we are here for the long haul, and we hope you will come with us.

其次是我們有一個非常獨特的自下而上的收購模式。為什麼這很有趣或值得一提是因為這種獨特的自下而上的收購模式真的準備好抓住這個巨大的未開發的中小型企業市場機會，我們也將在下面簡要地討論這個問題。最後但並非最不重要的一點是，Expensify 並不缺乏雄心壯志。我們的目標是擁有 10 億用戶的平台機會，我們長期在這裡，希望您能與我們一起。

Next slide. So really briefly, why is the market opportunity so huge? And you've seen this over and over again, but again, just reminding you that there are far more small businesses and employees that work at small businesses, all over the world. And way -- and if you add them all up together, by measures of -- by a huge measure outpace enterprise companies and their employees. But it's just that the market is huge in the small and medium business space, it's also that it's largely greenfield. They're not using any kind of tool today. They are using Excel and manual processes. And what you really just need to do is convince them that using Expensify is a better use of their time and resources.

下一張幻燈片。那麼簡單地說，為什麼市場機會如此巨大？你已經一遍又一遍地看到這一點，但再次提醒你，全世界有更多的小企業和在小企業工作的員工。並且方式 - 如果你將它們全部加在一起，通過衡量 - 大大超過企業公司及其員工。但這只是中小型企業領域的市場巨大，而且它主要是綠地。他們今天沒有使用任何類型的工具。他們使用 Excel 和手動流程。你真正需要做的是說服他們使用 Expensify 可以更好地利用他們的時間和資源。

But the challenge is most of the market, all of our competition is operating with a top-down sales-driven acquisition model. What this means is if they try to go to market and pick off one small business after another in order to acquire them, they can't do it -- scalably, they can do it. Profitably, it just doesn't work.

但挑戰在於大部分市場，我們所有的競爭對手都在以自上而下的銷售驅動收購模式運作。這意味著如果他們試圖進入市場並挑選一個接一個的小企業來收購它們，他們就做不到——在規模上，他們可以做到。有利可圖的是，它只是行不通。

Next slide. And this is where our acquisition model comes in. So we have a bottom-up acquisition model. And why is that interesting? We market a very consumer-grade product to end users who are employees. These employees have a very real pain point that none of the other competitor applications out there are targeting or trying to solve. What this means is we make the employees life better for free and they can adopt us without asking their company for permission. And this motivates them to talk about us to their colleagues, it motivates them to talk about us to their managers and sell us up into their company, and that's how we grow. We grow bottom up.

下一張幻燈片。這就是我們的收購模式的用武之地。所以我們有一個自下而上的收購模式。為什麼這很有趣？我們向作為員工的最終用戶推銷非常消費級的產品。這些員工有一個非常真實的痛點，其他競爭對手的應用程序都沒有針對或試圖解決這些痛點。這意味著我們免費讓員工生活得更好，他們可以在不徵得公司許可的情況下收養我們。這會激勵他們向他們的同事談論我們，激勵他們向他們的經理談論我們並將我們推銷到他們的公司，這就是我們成長的方式。我們自下而上成長。

So we have this very scalable, very profitable business model that can use word-of-mouth and viral lead-gen to pick off small business after small business in a manner that we can acquire this large untapped market opportunity over time.

因此，我們擁有這種非常可擴展、非常有利可圖的商業模式，它可以利用口碑和病毒式引導來挑選一個又一個小企業，這樣我們就可以隨著時間的推移獲得這個巨大的未開發市場機會。

Next slide. So to recap, we are one of the few free applications out there that is consumer grade and can be sold to employees who can adopt us without asking their companies for permission. But then once we are sold up into the company, as that company grows, we have enterprise scale and we have global reach. So we can continue to scale with that growing company, and they never need to leave us, and we can retain them forever. And combined the fact that we free consumer grade, but we have enterprise reach and global scale is why you should believe in us.

下一張幻燈片。總而言之，我們是為數不多的消費級免費應用程序之一，可以出售給無需徵得公司許可即可採用我們的員工。但是一旦我們被賣給公司，隨著公司的發展，我們就有了企業規模，我們就有了全球影響力。因此，我們可以繼續與這家成長中的公司一起擴大規模，他們永遠不需要離開我們，我們可以永遠留住他們。結合我們免費的消費級這一事實，但我們擁有企業影響力和全球規模，這就是您應該相信我們的原因。

Next slide. So you've seen this slide many times at all, but I just want to remind you that this is our road map. And largely, the only thing that's changed here over time, like since we went public is the fact that more and more of these features have gone from gray, which means it's in development, to green, which means it's in beta to blue, which means it's launched.

下一張幻燈片。所以你們已經多次看過這張幻燈片，但我只想提醒你們，這是我們的路線圖。在很大程度上，隨著時間的推移這裡唯一發生了變化，比如自從我們上市以來，越來越多的這些功能已經從灰色（意味著它正在開發中）變為綠色（意味著它處於測試階段）變為藍色，這意味著它處於測試階段。表示它已啟動。

So the way to read this slide is go left to right and everything that is on the far left are consumer-grade viral lead-gen features and helps us sort of continue to grow user base as on the free product. And then as you go right, you see more and more enterprise-grade features. And taken together, this allows us to hit the market really hard, acquire them profitably and then keep on growing with them such that we can build on our transactional and subscription revenue with companies as they keep growing as well.

所以閱讀這張幻燈片的方式是從左到右，最左邊的所有內容都是消費級病毒式引導功能，可以幫助我們像免費產品一樣繼續擴大用戶群。然後，當您向右走時，您會看到越來越多的企業級功能。總而言之，這使我們能夠非常努力地打入市場，以盈利的方式收購它們，然後繼續與他們一起成長，這樣我們就可以在公司不斷成長的同時增加我們的交易和訂閱收入。

So that's a recap on business strategy and why we are who we are and why our business is built for the long haul. With that said, I'm going to hand it back to Ryan.

因此，這是對業務戰略的回顧，以及為什麼我們是現在的我們，以及為什麼我們的業務是為長期發展而建立的。話雖如此，我要把它還給瑞安。

Great. Thank you, Anu. So let's talk about some 2022 highlights. We had strong growth despite some tough headwinds. So Expensify remains resolute despite the economy. As everyone knows, if you're watching the headlines, a lot of companies are laying off employees. Some companies are pivoting. They're changing their business model, their go-to-market. At Expensify, we are steadfast in an economic storm. We're hiring. We've been hiring the entire time since pandemic. We continue to hire.

偉大的。謝謝你，阿努。因此，讓我們談談 2022 年的一些亮點。儘管遇到了一些艱難的逆風，我們還是實現了強勁的增長。因此，儘管經濟不景氣，Expensify 仍然堅定不移。眾所周知，如果你看頭條新聞，很多公司都在裁員。一些公司正在轉向。他們正在改變他們的商業模式，他們的上市方式。在 Expensify，我們在經濟風暴中堅定不移。我們正在招聘。自大流行以來，我們一直在招聘。我們繼續招聘。

We're generating a lot of excess cash at $1.2 million in revenue per employee, which is quite high. We're also just focused on the future. We're still executing the same plan. We're not changing. If the economy gets shaky, we don't need to pivot into something completely different. We just keep moving forward. And as you know, we've been buying back shares as well.

我們以每名員工 120 萬美元的收入產生了大量超額現金，這是相當高的。我們也只關注未來。我們仍在執行相同的計劃。我們沒有改變。如果經濟變得不穩定，我們不需要轉向完全不同的東西。我們只是繼續前進。如您所知，我們也一直在回購股票。

So some of the things that we did in 2022 that we want to talk about is that we spend a lot of energy supercharging the accounting channel. And people always ask, okay, why accountings? Why accounting firms? Why SMB accounting firms. So one thing that's important to note is even a small accounting firm is an enterprise-size opportunity. Each firm has dozens of accountants. Each accountant has dozens of SMB clients. Each of the SMB clients has multiple employees, in some cases, a lot of employees. So when you add up all the employees managed by -- all the customers of the accounting firm managed by all the accountants, even a small firm can be a very large revenue opportunity for us.

因此，我們想談談我們在 2022 年所做的一些事情是，我們花費了大量精力來增強會計渠道。人們總是問，好吧，為什麼要做會計？為什麼是會計師事務所？為什麼選擇 SMB 會計師事務所。因此，需要注意的重要一件事是，即使是小型會計師事務所也是企業規模的機會。每個公司都有幾十名會計師。每個會計師都有幾十個 SMB 客戶。每個 SMB 客戶都有多名員工，在某些情況下，有很多員工。因此，當您將由所有會計師管理的會計師事務所的所有客戶加起來時，即使是一家小公司，對我們來說也是一個非常大的收入機會。

Some things we did to help supercharge the accounting channel is we announce the Expensify CPA Card with account-specific perks. We have assigned partner managers to the 500 largest partner firms which is over half of all of our partner revenue, which is now overseen by a partner manager. And we've announced ExpensiCon 3, where we're bringing together 100 of the top minds in accounting. And you may have seen our announcement that we're going to have headline speaker, George Clooney. So we're very excited about that. The previous 2 ExpensiCons have been very successful for us, and we're excited for ExpensiCon 3 and to meet Mr. Clooney.

我們為幫助增強會計渠道所做的一些事情是我們宣布了具有特定賬戶津貼的 Expensify CPA 卡。我們已經為 500 家最大的合作夥伴公司分配了合作夥伴經理，這些公司占我們所有合作夥伴收入的一半以上，現在由合作夥伴經理監督。我們還宣布了 ExpensiCon 3，我們將匯集 100 位會計界的頂尖人才。你可能已經看到我們宣布我們將有一位頭條新聞發言人喬治克魯尼。所以我們對此感到非常興奮。之前的 2 次 ExpensiCons 對我們來說非常成功，我們很高興 ExpensiCon 3 和見到克魯尼先生。

Now let's talk about how we've supercharged our sales efforts. So we have scaled our account managers so that nearly all revenue is now overseen by an account manager. We've added onboarding phone support. So all customers that want to talk to someone through the onboarding process can get a response within 2 minutes or less and be on the phone with them very quickly.

現在讓我們談談我們如何加強我們的銷售工作。因此，我們擴大了客戶經理的規模，現在幾乎所有收入都由客戶經理監督。我們添加了入職電話支持。因此，所有希望通過入職流程與某人交談的客戶都可以在 2 分鐘或更短的時間內得到答复，並且可以非常快速地與他們通電話。

Previously, most customers did self-service. And if you wanted to call, you kind of had to be a larger customer. At this point, anyone that wants to get on the phone can get on the phone, and they can get on the phone quickly, which has been a great development for us.

以前，大多數客戶都是自助服務。如果你想打電話，你就必須是一個更大的客戶。在這一點上，任何想接電話的人都可以接電話，而且他們可以很快接電話，這對我們來說是一個很大的進步。

We've also created an outbound SDR program. This is something that didn't exist at all, and now we've built that. So it's kind of 0 to 1-type of function, and we're working with the multiple vendors to scale that SDR program efficiently.

我們還創建了出站 SDR 計劃。這是根本不存在的東西，現在我們已經建立了它。所以這是一種 0 到 1 類型的功能，我們正在與多家供應商合作，以有效地擴展該 SDR 計劃。

And this is -- this might be new to some people, but we're also supercharging what we call our contributor community. So we talked a lot about Expensify Chat, and it's this new platform we're building, and we're building it on programming language called React Native. And we made the very exciting decision to open source that, which means external engineers can work on Expensify Chat. And what we've done is something very unique is that we are paying these open source contributors normally and open source, it's just fall into your work.

這對某些人來說可能是新的，但我們也在加強我們所謂的貢獻者社區。所以我們談了很多關於 Expensify Chat 的事情，這是我們正在構建的新平台，我們正在使用名為 React Native 的編程語言構建它。我們做出了開源的非常激動人心的決定，這意味著外部工程師可以在 Expensify Chat 上工作。我們所做的是非常獨特的，我們正在正常支付這些開源貢獻者和開源，它只是落入你的工作。

So we have -- it's transformed how we work. So our internal engineers, which are incredible, incredible people, they will design a feature, break it out in a little pieces. They post those pieces into Upwork. And then very quickly within minutes, we'll have 5, 10 proposals and then our engineers then project manage all these contributors working together and they're able to ship features much more quickly, much more efficiently. And we think it's pretty unique. It's not really done by many people and certainly not in a paid manner like we're doing.

所以我們 - 它改變了我們的工作方式。所以我們的內部工程師，他們都是不可思議的人，他們會設計一個功能，把它分成小塊。他們將這些作品發佈到 Upwork 中。然後在幾分鐘內很快，我們將有 5 個、10 個提案，然後我們的工程師將項目管理所有這些貢獻者一起工作，他們能夠更快、更有效地發布功能。我們認為它非常獨特。很多人並沒有真正做到這一點，當然也不像我們正在做的那樣以付費方式進行。

So this is we think, over the long term, going to be a very competitive advantage for us. And we have -- we currently have hundreds of React Native engineers using our -- are active in our contributor community. And in 2022, we paid out over $1 million to those engineers. And if you're a React Native engineer listening to this, we'd love to work with you. So check it out.

所以我們認為，從長遠來看，這對我們來說將是一個非常有競爭力的優勢。我們有——我們目前有數百名 React Native 工程師在使用我們的——在我們的貢獻者社區中很活躍。 2022 年，我們向這些工程師支付了超過 100 萬美元。如果您是一名 React Native 工程師，那麼我們很樂意與您合作。所以檢查一下。

All right. So now let's get to 2022 and Q4 financial performance. We had a great year. In '22, we did $169.5 million in revenue. Our year-on-year revenue growth was 19%. On the Expensify Card, the gross interchange was $6.8 million, and the growth on the Expensify Card was 118%. And just a reminder, that interchange is not included in that revenue number.

好的。那麼現在讓我們來看看 2022 年和第四季度的財務業績。我們度過了美好的一年。 22 年，我們的收入為 1.695 億美元。我們的收入同比增長 19%。在 Expensify Card 上，總交易量為 680 萬美元，Expensify Card 的增長率為 118%。提醒一下，該收入數字中不包括交換。

We also generate a lot of cash. Our operating cash flow was $32.9 million. Our free cash flow was $26.3 million. We break out free cash flow from operating cash flow because we do hold on to some customer funds, and that's not really our money. We're just holding it and it's basically in transit. So if we want to talk about the money that we actually generated, it's -- that free cash flow number, the $26.3 million.

我們也產生了大量現金。我們的經營現金流為 3290 萬美元。我們的自由現金流為 2630 萬美元。我們從運營現金流中分離出自由現金流，因為我們確實持有一些客戶資金，而那並不是我們的錢。我們只是拿著它，它基本上在運輸途中。因此，如果我們想談論我們實際產生的資金，那就是——自由現金流量，即 2630 萬美元。

On a GAAP basis, we had a net loss of $27 million. And we've talked about this before. That is primarily driven by stock-based comp. And that stock-based comp is primarily driven by a pre-IPO program we did that went effective on the IPO. And we get questions about this because the stock-based comp is quite high. You value a grant based on the value of the stock at the day of grant. So at that day of grant, it was $42 a share. So every share at best is we recorded $42 expense. So it is significantly higher than what the stock is right now, which can make the stock-based comp maybe look higher than what you're expecting. But as we've discussed in the past, the stock-based comp is decreasing over time. If you look at the earnings release, we have a forecast on how that is decreasing over time.

根據 GAAP，我們的淨虧損為 2700 萬美元。我們之前已經談過這個。這主要是由股票補償驅動的。這種基於股票的補償主要是由我們所做的 IPO 前計劃驅動的，該計劃在 IPO 時生效。我們對此有疑問，因為基於股票的補償相當高。您根據授予之日的股票價值對贈款進行估價。所以在授予那天，它是每股 42 美元。因此，每一股充其量是我們記錄的 42 美元費用。因此，它明顯高於目前的股票價格，這可能會使基於股票的股票看起來比你預期的要高。但正如我們過去所討論的那樣，基於股票的補償隨著時間的推移而減少。如果你看一下收益發布，我們會預測它會隨著時間的推移而減少。

Now if you take out stock-based comp, we have a non-GAAP net income of $25.3 million and adjusted EBITDA of $42.5 million, which are very healthy numbers. So we're very proud of our performance in '22.

現在，如果你去掉基於股票的補償，我們的非 GAAP 淨收入為 2530 萬美元，調整後的 EBITDA 為 4250 萬美元，這是非常健康的數字。所以我們為我們在 22 年的表現感到非常自豪。

Now let's talk about Q4. Q4 revenue was $43.5 million. Our paid -- average paid members were 779,000. The card, we had gross interchange of 2 million with interchange growth year-on-year of 91%. We generated a lot of cash in Q4, too. It's kind of a theme with us. Our operating cash flow was $6.6 million, and our free cash flow was $6 million.

現在讓我們談談Q4。第四季度收入為 4350 萬美元。我們的付費——平均付費會員為 779,000。該卡，我們的總交換量為 200 萬，交換量同比增長 91%。我們在第四季度也產生了大量現金。這是我們的一個主題。我們的經營現金流為 660 萬美元，自由現金流為 600 萬美元。

In Q4, our GAAP net loss was $3.4 million. Again, this is driven primarily by the stock-based comp, which is driven by the grant that we discussed. And for the quarter, it was about $10 million. So when you take out the stock-based comp, our non-GAAP net income is $7.1 million and adjusted EBITDA of $11.2 million.

第四季度，我們的 GAAP 淨虧損為 340 萬美元。同樣，這主要是由股票補償驅動的，而股票補償是由我們討論過的贈款驅動的。該季度約為 1000 萬美元。因此，當你剔除股票補償時，我們的非 GAAP 淨收入為 710 萬美元，調整後的 EBITDA 為 1120 萬美元。

So as you might recall, we are currently not giving guidance, but we are giving information on the month that has happened thus far. In the past, we've disclosed that and we're disclosing it here. One thing we've discussed in the past is that we have 2 types of users. And we've talked about this, but I get a lot of questions on this in the calls. So I want to make sure that we all understand.

您可能還記得，我們目前沒有提供指導，但我們提供了迄今為止發生的月份的信息。過去，我們已經披露了這一點，現在我們在這裡披露。我們過去討論過的一件事是我們有兩種類型的用戶。我們已經討論過這個問題，但我在電話中收到了很多關於這個的問題。所以我想確保我們都明白。

We have subscription-based users who are locked in for 12 months. They pay every month for 12 months. And then we have pay-per-use users, which are activity based. So if they use it one month, they pay. If they didn't use it the next, they don't pay. Since the -- and they pay a higher price. Since the pandemic, we have seen the percentage of pay-per-use users as a percentage of all users increased substantially to about 35% of all users, which is higher than it's ever been, which has introduced a level of volatility in the revenue that we haven't seen before. And we've discussed this on the last call.

我們有基於訂閱的用戶，他們被鎖定了 12 個月。他們每月支付 12 個月。然後我們有按使用付費的用戶，這些用戶是基於活動的。因此，如果他們使用一個月，他們就會付費。如果他們下次沒有使用它，他們就不會付款。自從——他們付出了更高的代價。自大流行以來，我們已經看到按次付費用戶佔所有用戶的百分比大幅增加到所有用戶的 35% 左右，這比以往任何時候都高，這導致收入出現一定程度的波動我們以前沒見過。我們在上次電話會議上討論過這個問題。

I've actually highlighted the last 3 Januaries on this chart in yellow and you'll see that volatility kind of show up. We usually have a good Q4. And then in January, we see a drop in that pay-per-use, but it's not a sustained permanent drop, it recovers quite quickly. So in January, we are seeing that kind of -- that seasonality, that drop in pay-per-use users. It's not a drop in subscription. It's not a big churn off of customers. It's just a decrease in pay-per-use, which we don't expect to be long term, just some seasonality that we do see.

事實上，我已經在這張圖表上用黃色突出顯示了最後 3 個 1 月，你會看到這種波動性出現了。我們通常有一個很好的第四季度。然後在 1 月，我們看到按使用付費的下降，但這不是持續的永久下降，它恢復得很快。因此，在 1 月份，我們看到了這種季節性，即按使用付費用戶的下降。這不是訂閱量下降。這不是一個很大的客戶流失。這只是按使用付費的減少，我們預計這不會是長期的，只是我們確實看到了一些季節性。

So this is -- we are working on increasing the percentage of users as -- on subscription as a percentage of all users because that will reduce the volatility. So we started working on this push for annual subscriptions in Q4, and I'm happy to report that we've already had some signs of early success. So in Q4, new users are trending more towards annual subscriptions versus pay-per-use. In previous quarters, if you look at new users, there were more -- we're adding more pay-per-use users than subscription. In Q4, we've reversed that trend. So I do think that we've started to see success in our efforts, and we expect that success to continue throughout 2023.

所以這是——我們正在努力提高訂閱用戶在所有用戶中的百分比，因為這將減少波動性。因此，我們在第四季度開始推動年度訂閱，我很高興地向大家報告，我們已經有了一些早期成功的跡象。因此在第四季度，新用戶更傾向於按年訂閱而不是按使用付費。在前幾個季度，如果你看看新用戶，你會發現有更多——我們增加的按使用付費用戶多於訂閱用戶。在第四季度，我們扭轉了這一趨勢。所以我確實認為我們已經開始看到我們的努力取得成功，我們預計這種成功將持續到 2023 年。

And we are increasing subscription through a number of different ways. Our sales team is now focused on subscription instead of pay-per-use. Previously, the sales team, they were just focused on getting users and that we didn't really care if they're subscription or pay-per-use. Now they're solely focused on subscription. Similarly, our account managers are also focused on converting customers with pay-per-use users to subscription and they're prioritizing the customers that have the highest percentage of their employees on pay-per-use and working on getting those over to subscription.

我們正在通過多種不同的方式增加訂閱。我們的銷售團隊現在專注於訂閱而不是按使用付費。以前，銷售團隊只專注於吸引用戶，而我們並不真正關心他們是訂閱還是按使用付費。現在他們只專注於訂閱。同樣，我們的客戶經理也專注於將按使用付費用戶的客戶轉化為訂閱用戶，他們正在優先考慮按使用付費員工比例最高的客戶，並努力讓這些客戶轉向訂閱。

So the volatility is great when it goes up, sometimes it goes down, so that -- and we would like to decrease the volatility in the revenue that we've been seeing. So the good news is that this isn't an impossible problem. It's very easy to solve, move them over subscription. We know how to do it. We have started doing it. It is showing success. So we think this volatility is a temporary issue that is easy to solve. It's just going to take some time to solve it, and we're already seeing progress.

所以當它上升時波動很大，有時它會下降，所以 - 我們希望減少我們一直看到的收入波動。所以好消息是這不是一個不可能解決的問題。這很容易解決，將它們移到訂閱上。我們知道該怎麼做。我們已經開始這樣做了。它正在顯示成功。所以我們認為這種波動是一個很容易解決的暫時性問題。解決它只需要一些時間，我們已經看到了進展。

To summarize, in '22, we had a steadfast performance in uncertain times. We had strong free cash flow, and we were profitable on an adjusted EBITDA basis and free cash flow. Our paid members continue to grow. The Expensify Card is up nearly 120% from last year and we have an exciting product road map that opens up more use cases among our customers.

總而言之，在 22 年，我們在不確定的時期表現穩定。我們擁有強勁的自由現金流，並且在調整後的 EBITDA 基礎上和自由現金流中實現盈利。我們的付費會員繼續增長。 Expensify Card 比去年增長了近 120%，我們有一個令人興奮的產品路線圖，可以在我們的客戶中開闢更多的用例。

Now we'll turn it over to Anu for Q&A. But before I hand it over to her, I wanted to highlight that, we are now hosting a frequently asked questions in FAQ on our Investor Relations page. We get a lot of e-mails from investors, institutional and retail, to investors@expensify.com. And a lot of them are the same questions. So we're going to just start posting those questions on that page with answers. So if you have questions for us, please e-mail investors@expensify.com. We will post your answers and -- sorry, your questions and our answers on that page, and we'll be updating that throughout the quarter. So that's a great page to check out if you're curious about Expensify and you have questions, maybe we didn't answer in this call.

現在我們將把它交給 Anu 進行問答。但在我把它交給她之前，我想強調的是，我們現在在我們的投資者關係頁面上的常見問題解答中提供了一個常見問題解答。我們收到很多來自投資者、機構和散戶的電子郵件，發送至 investors@expensify.com。其中很多是相同的問題。所以我們將開始在該頁面上發布這些問題和答案。因此，如果您對我們有任何疑問，請發送電子郵件至 investors@expensify.com。我們將在該頁面上發布您的答案——抱歉，您的問題和我們的答案，我們將在整個季度進行更新。因此，如果您對 Expensify 感到好奇並且有疑問，那麼這是一個很棒的頁面，您可以查看這個頁面，也許我們沒有在這次電話會議中回答。

So Anu, if you want to kick off the Q&A.

那麼 Anu，如果你想開始問答環節。

Amazing. So first up, we have Koji from Bank of America.

驚人的。首先，我們有來自美國銀行的 Koji。

Can you hear me okay? Can you guys hear me okay? .

你能聽到我說話嗎？你們能聽到我說話嗎？ .

Yes, Koji.

是的，小吉。

I know you guys are not specifically guiding to 2023. But I wanted to ask you a question on margins, specifically adjusted EBITDA. I mean you finished kind of about a 25% EBITDA level -- margin level. So I just -- is there anything to call out that would make that adjusted EBITDA margin level swing meaningfully to the upward downside from that level this year?

我知道你們並沒有具體指導 2023 年。但我想問你們一個關於利潤率的問題，特別是調整後的 EBITDA。我的意思是你完成了大約 25% 的 EBITDA 水平——保證金水平。所以我只是 - 有什麼可以指出的，可以使調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率水平從今年的水平顯著上行嗎？

So the -- our adjusted EBITDA is heavily influenced by our sales and marketing spend. And we have decreased the amount we are spending on marketing but increased the amount we spend on sales. But the overall level is probably going to be pretty consistent throughout the year. So I wouldn't expect a huge shift, but if there's a change, we'll definitely let everyone know.

所以——我們調整後的 EBITDA 很大程度上受到我們的銷售和營銷支出的影響。我們減少了營銷支出，但增加了銷售支出。但全年的總體水平可能會非常穩定。所以我不希望有很大的轉變，但如果有變化，我們一定會讓每個人都知道。

Got it. Got it. Okay. Cool. And then just a second question for me. Thinking about the share buybacks. Could you remind us how much is left on the share buyback program from here? And if you run out of that share buyback program, are you thinking about maybe potentially expanding it or introducing a new one?

知道了。知道了。好的。涼爽的。然後是我的第二個問題。考慮股票回購。你能提醒我們這裡的股票回購計劃還剩多少嗎？如果你用完了那個股票回購計劃，你是否正在考慮可能擴大它或引入一個新的？

Great question. So we did about -- we did $10 million and then we did an additional, I think, $2 million. So we're at $12 million, so we have about $38 million out of that $50 million authorized. And the idea was just to authorize enough shares for a year or 2, 3 and then when we use that up, make another evaluation. So we do intend to use that and we'll -- I have nothing to announce now, but when we use that, we'll let you know if we're reauthorizing more, I mean at this point, I expect that we would, but we'll be sure to let you know.

很好的問題。所以我們做了大約 - 我們做了 1000 萬美元，然後我們又做了 200 萬美元。所以我們有 1200 萬美元，所以在授權的 5000 萬美元中，我們有大約 3800 萬美元。這個想法只是授權一年或 2、3 年的足夠份額，然後當我們用完時，再進行一次評估。所以我們確實打算使用它，我們會 - 我現在沒有什麼要宣布的，但是當我們使用它時，如果我們重新授權更多，我們會通知你，我的意思是在這一點上，我希望我們會，但我們一定會通知您。

Next up, we have Raquel from JPMorgan, please.

接下來有請摩根大通的 Raquel 發言。

Raquel, are you there?

拉奎爾，你在嗎？

Okay, we'll circle back to her. Let's go to George at Citi.

好的，我們會回到她身邊。讓我們去找花旗銀行的喬治。

George?

喬治？

Okay. Hopefully, this is not a technical glitch, but let's try Mauro with Piper Sandler.

好的。希望這不是技術故障，但讓我們試試 Mauro 和 Piper Sandler。

So I just have a couple of questions. First one is around the progress getting customers to go from pay-per-use to subscription. Have you seen any pushback from customers on that as you've sort of ramped up efforts to get that shift to happen? And then the second thing is, is there a target mix of pay-per-use that you're thinking about either for 2023 or for the longer term?

所以我有幾個問題。第一個是關於讓客戶從按使用付費到訂閱的進展。當您加大力度實現這種轉變時，您是否看到客戶對此有任何反對？然後第二件事是，您是否正在考慮 2023 年或更長期的按使用付費目標組合？

And the reason I ask that is because I imagine you'd still want to take advantage of the potential upside you could see from pay-per-use use once customer activity does improve.

我之所以這麼問，是因為我想一旦客戶活動確實有所改善，您仍然希望利用按使用付費使用的潛在優勢。

Yes. Great questions. So no, we don't really see a lot of pushback. Actually, what we find is most customers didn't realize that they were -- they had so much pay-per-use, and they're happy to increase the subscription. It's more kind of letting them know. Expensify is not very expensive, and it's no one's job to micro manage your Expensify bill. So a lot of times, people they -- when they sign up, let's say they do 50 subscription and then a year or 2 years later, maybe they have another 50 pay-per-use use, and they just haven't thought about it since they originally signed up.

是的。很好的問題。所以不，我們真的沒有看到很多阻力。事實上，我們發現大多數客戶並沒有意識到他們是——他們有這麼多的按使用付費，他們很樂意增加訂閱。更像是讓他們知道。 Expensify 不是很貴，微觀管理您的 Expensify 賬單不是任何人的工作。所以很多時候，人們 - 當他們註冊時，假設他們做了 50 次訂閱，然後一年或兩年後，也許他們還有另外 50 次按使用付費，他們只是沒有想過自從他們最初註冊以來。

So -- and there hasn't been a lot of pushback. And in terms of -- in idealness, I think that's pretty hard to say. Historically, it was -- it's been around 20%. So I think that's kind of where we're initially shooting for. But you're absolutely right that we love having the pay-per-use because if a customer wants to grow superfast and shoot up or they want the flexibility, that's definitely an option for them. We never want to get in their way or create friction. So we do like having the pay-per-use, but we want to obviously have as many subscriptions as we can. So I think this is -- it got a little bit out of balance, and we're just kind of generally pushing it back into balance.

所以 - 並沒有太多的阻力。就理想而言，我認為這很難說。從歷史上看，它是——它一直在 20% 左右。所以我認為這就是我們最初的目標。但是你說得對，我們喜歡按使用付費，因為如果客戶想要超快增長，或者他們想要靈活性，那絕對是他們的一個選擇。我們從不想妨礙他們或製造摩擦。所以我們確實喜歡按使用付費，但我們顯然希望擁有盡可能多的訂閱。所以我認為這是 - 它有點失衡，我們只是一般地把它推回平衡。

Okay. Got it. And then just one last thing for me. Can you remind us what your industry exposure looks like today, particularly as it relates to companies in the software vertical? .

好的。知道了。然後對我來說只有最後一件事。您能否提醒我們您今天的行業曝光情況，尤其是與軟件垂直領域的公司相關的情況？ .

So can you say the first part of your question again, is a little fine?

所以你能再說一遍你問題的第一部分，有點好嗎？

Yes. So just trying to get a reminder on what your industry exposure looks like and maybe a percentage of revenue?

是的。所以只是想提醒一下您的行業曝光情況以及收入的百分比？

Great. So we have an extremely diversified customer base. We have no customer that represents even 1% of revenue. We are certainly very popular in some industries, technology, media, nonprofits, stuff like that. But I think different from some other people in our space is we are diversified, not just within industries, but also geographically.

偉大的。因此，我們擁有極其多元化的客戶群。我們沒有客戶佔收入的 1%。我們在某些行業、技術、媒體、非營利組織等方面當然非常受歡迎。但我認為與我們這個領域的其他一些人不同的是，我們是多元化的，不僅在行業內，而且在地理上。

So we're not just coastal. It's not like all of our customers are just crypto companies. We're not a start-up just selling to other start-ups. We have a lot of mom-and-pops and small businesses across the entire United States and Australia, U.K., Canada, around the world. So I'd say we're very well diversified. There are some -- I wouldn't say there's like one major industry that we make all our revenue from.

所以我們不僅僅是沿海地區。並不是說我們所有的客戶都是加密公司。我們不是一家只向其他初創企業銷售產品的初創企業。我們在整個美國和澳大利亞、英國、加拿大以及世界各地都有許多夫妻店和小型企業。所以我想說我們非常多元化。有一些——我不會說有一個主要行業是我們所有收入的來源。

Cool. Going to the next person, Daniel from BMO, please.

涼爽的。下面有請 BMO 的 Daniel 發言。

Great. So I want to go back to the pay-per-user comment, the 35% of the customer base that's pay-per-use. If you track those pay-per-use customers over time, what percentage of them actually pay you more than their subscription fee would be if they convert it? So I guess I'm just understanding -- I want to understand like how many of these are like onetime users or how many have been on the platform for a long time and just spend and spend and spend more so than they would have on the subscription?

偉大的。所以我想回到按用戶付費的評論，35% 的客戶群是按使用付費的。如果你隨著時間的推移跟踪這些按使用付費的客戶，他們中有多少實際支付給你的費用超過他們轉換後的訂閱費？所以我想我只是在了解——我想了解其中有多少人是曾經的用戶，或者有多少人已經在這個平台上呆了很長時間，只是花錢、花錢、花錢，而不是在平台上。訂閱？

Okay. It's a great question. So the way the math works out. Pay-per-use actually is twice the rate of subscription or said another way, you get a 50% discount for going on subscription versus pay-per-use use. So you're right, if someone is active on pay-per-use for 12 months out of the year, they end up paying us more. But what we see is that they're actually -- the breakeven point is 6 months, and we see that they're active, in general, less than 6 months. So if we try to bond right now that I can push that would convert all pay-per-use to subscription, I would definitely push that because that represents more annual revenue from us -- for us. But -- so we would prefer to have them on subscription.

好的。這是一個很好的問題。所以數學運算的方式。按使用付費實際上是訂閱費率的兩倍，或者換句話說，繼續訂閱與按使用付費相比，您可以獲得 50% 的折扣。所以你是對的，如果有人在一年中有 12 個月積極使用按使用付費，他們最終會付給我們更多的錢。但我們看到的是，它們實際上 - 盈虧平衡點是 6 個月，我們看到它們通常活躍，不到 6 個月。因此，如果我們現在嘗試建立聯繫，我可以推動將所有按使用付費轉換為訂閱，我肯定會推動它，因為這代表了我們的更多年收入——對我們來說。但是 - 所以我們更願意訂閱它們。

I don't think -- to go back to the previous question, I don't think that goal is to get it to 0% and customers do like the flexibility that it provides. But we think it's probably too high right now and we're thinking 20% is probably a better place for us to be in terms of revenue volatility and all that.

我不認為——回到上一個問題，我不認為目標是將其降低到 0%，而且客戶確實喜歡它提供的靈活性。但我們認為現在可能太高了，我們認為 20% 可能是我們在收入波動等方面更好的地方。

And part of the dynamic here is also what Ryan touched on earlier, like, because the number or actual price is quite low, companies, as they keep growing don't really look at their bill or review their bill or review their total spend because it's actually materially not significant to their spend overall. So what happens is somebody like, I don't know, just to throw out a number like, Instagram, as a company started off really small, is paying us, never really increases their subscription size, continues on and on and on, growing to a much bigger company.

這裡的部分動態也是 Ryan 之前提到的，比如，因為數量或實際價格很低，公司在不斷增長的同時並沒有真正查看他們的賬單或審查他們的賬單或審查他們的總支出，因為實際上，這對他們的總體支出來說並不重要。所以會發生什麼，我不知道，只是拋出一個數字，比如 Instagram，因為一家公司起步時規模很小，付錢給我們，從來沒有真正增加他們的訂閱規模，繼續不斷地增長到一家更大的公司。

And what we're trying to prevent is that one day they open up their bill and think that they're paying Expensify too much, like we want to take care of them. So if it looks like they're just actually committed users in that they stick around for more than 6 months, and it would work out better for the company to go to annual. It benefits both Expensify and the company to make them go to annual and that's really how we approach it. Like it's as much a retention tool as it improves our financial volatility.

我們正在努力防止的是，有一天他們打開他們的賬單並認為他們向 Expensify 支付了太多費用，就像我們想要照顧他們一樣。因此，如果看起來他們實際上只是忠誠的用戶，因為他們堅持了 6 個月以上，那麼公司每年都會更好。讓他們每年都受益，這對 Expensify 和公司都有好處，而這正是我們處理它的方式。就像它既是一種保留工具，又能改善我們的財務波動性。

It's a great answer.

這是一個很好的答案。

Great. That's really helpful. And then you mentioned a little bit about sort of the importance of freelancers and the workflow. Just maybe could you expand a little bit on that? I've noticed maybe in terms of like per job expense, it feels like that might be going up. Is that because it's getting harder to attract freelances or because the skill set you need is higher? Like just help us think about like what that spending could look like in the year ahead, given the importance of both getting the chat out but also doing it in a cost-efficient manner?

偉大的。這真的很有幫助。然後你提到了一些關於自由職業者和工作流程的重要性。也許您可以對此進行一些擴展嗎？我注意到，也許就每份工作的費用而言，感覺可能會上升。這是因為越來越難吸引自由職業者，還是因為你需要更高的技能？就像只是幫助我們思考未來一年的支出會是什麼樣子，考慮到既要進行聊天又要以具有成本效益的方式進行的重要性？

So -- go ahead, Anu.

所以——繼續吧，Anu。

Sorry, I was just wondering, when you say the cost per job is going up, like what do you mean for us, like something in our financial statement?

抱歉，我只是想知道，當你說每份工作的成本在上升時，你對我們意味著什麼，比如我們財務報表中的某些內容？

Yes. I mean I just -- sort of like I track the jobs that you post, and it feels like sometimes in the last 4 months, the amount that you have to like post the job for seems like it's higher than it has been in the past. And so what is driving that and how concerning is that from a cost perspective for you?

是的。我的意思是我只是 - 有點像我跟踪你發布的工作，感覺有時在過去的 4 個月裡，你必須喜歡發布工作的數量似乎比過去更高.那麼，是什麼推動了這一點，從成本的角度來看，這對您來說有多重要？

It's a great question. Actually, that's not of concern at all, but I'll tell you why. The reason we increased the amount that we pay for a job is if that job has been sitting out there for a certain period of time. And I think Ryan was talking about this when he was presenting the specific use cases, like when you post a job, there is so much hungry talent out there that I have literally posted a job, and I haven't even moved off of the page and I see 4 proposals come in.

這是一個很好的問題。實際上，這根本不是問題，但我會告訴你原因。我們增加為某項工作支付的金額的原因是該工作是否已經擱置了一段時間。我認為 Ryan 在介紹具體用例時談到了這一點，比如當你發布一份工作時，那裡有太多渴望的人才，以至於我真的發布了一份工作，而且我什至還沒有離開頁面，我看到 4 個提案進來了。

So there's a lot of supply that is soaking up the demand. So when a job sits out there with no proposals, it's not because there is no engineer out there that can -- like it's not a bandwidth issue. It's more that the job itself is actually too complicated. So the vast majority of people are like, "I don't know how to fix this." So they avoid that job and go to other jobs. So when we increase the price, it's because it's been sitting out there and it sits out there because it is actually a more complicated bug or more complicated task. So the increase really just like kind of brings us on par with now we need a type of engineer that has more experience, more talent. And so it kind of just pays for the time, and it scales nicely. So we only increase it when that happens, sits out there for a while. And then it keeps on doing that.

因此，大量供應正在吸收需求。因此，當一份工作擱置在那里而沒有任何建議時，並不是因為那裡沒有工程師可以——就像這不是帶寬問題一樣。更何況這份工作本身其實太複雜了。所以絕大多數人都會說，“我不知道如何解決這個問題。”所以他們避開那份工作，轉而去做其他工作。因此，當我們提高價格時，是因為它一直在那裡，因為它實際上是一個更複雜的錯誤或更複雜的任務。因此，這種增長真的就像讓我們與現在一樣，我們需要一種擁有更多經驗、更多才能的工程師。所以它只是為時間付出代價，而且它的擴展性很好。所以我們只會在這種情況發生時增加它，並在那裡停留一段時間。然後它繼續這樣做。

At some point, increasing it doesn't make any sense, and we pull it internal. And we use that as a gauge sort of like we do the first, second responders, like if the question is tougher, it goes to the higher skilled person, think of it similarly. The total check, so to speak, that we got for upward is still so small that even from an audit perspective, it's just insignificant. So there's a lot of room to grow in that space.

在某些時候，增加它沒有任何意義，我們把它拉到內部。我們將其用作衡量標準，就像我們對第一、第二響應者所做的那樣，就像如果問題更難，它會交給技術更高的人，類似地考慮。可以說，我們向上獲得的總支票仍然很小，即使從審計的角度來看，也微不足道。所以在這個領域有很大的發展空間。

It's basically like price discovery, right? Like if no one is willing to do it for $1,000 but we do at $10,000. Some engineers don't want to -- they have -- they value their own time at certain rates. And if it's very hard, you've to move it up. And we don't know exactly what that is. So this is basically a price discovery mechanism.

這基本上就像價格發現，對吧？就像如果沒有人願意以 1,000 美元的價格做這件事，但我們願意以 10,000 美元的價格做。一些工程師不想——他們已經——按照特定的比例來珍惜自己的時間。如果它非常難，你必須將它向上移動。我們不知道那是什麼。所以這基本上是一種價格發現機制。

Sort of like surging or something, yes.

有點像湧動之類的，是的。

Got you. And then maybe just one last one on the card. Can you remind us how much you spent out in travel -- in rewards this quarter? And just any update on the transition with regards to Marketo, sort of the question you get every quarter?

明白了然後也許只是卡片上的最後一張。您能否提醒我們本季度您在旅行和獎勵方面花費了多少？關於 Marketo 過渡的任何更新，您每個季度都會遇到這樣的問題嗎？

Of course. So I don't think that we release the specific reward dollars we paid. But all I can say qualitatively is our cash-back is still not material to the interchange that we're bringing in. If we do break out cash-back, it will be in the 10-Q, but I don't think we do.

當然。所以我不認為我們會釋放我們支付的具體獎勵美元。但我只能定性地說，我們的現金返還對我們帶來的交換仍然不重要。如果我們真的打破現金返還，那將是在 10-Q，但我認為我們不會做。

Okay. Yes.

好的。是的。

I just don't remember off the top of my head, but it is still the same structure. It's 1% if you spend $25,000 at least, it's 2% if you spend $250,000, and the vast majority don't spend $250,000. So it's kind of tiered to make it aspirational to put all of your spend on the card, which is the real challenge because it's a big behavioral change.

我只是不記得了，但它仍然是相同的結構。如果您至少花費 25,000 美元，則為 1%，如果您花費 250,000 美元，則為 2%，而絕大多數人不會花費 250,000 美元。因此，它有點分層，讓人渴望將所有支出都花在卡上，這是真正的挑戰，因為這是一個很大的行為改變。

In terms of moving it over to revenue, I think we've been kind of reporting on the progress of that project. We've got all of the contracts nailed down. I think we are -- probably there or 99% there in terms of getting the accounting treatment nailed down. So that was the bulk of the challenge. Now we are in implementation mode. What we'll do next is launch it on ourselves, so to speak, like move all of the Expensify employees on to the new program, test it and then start the transition.

在將其轉化為收入方面，我認為我們一直在報告該項目的進展情況。我們已經敲定了所有的合同。我認為我們 - 可能已經或 99% 確定了會計處理。所以這是主要的挑戰。現在我們處於實施模式。我們接下來要做的是自己啟動它，可以這麼說，比如將所有 Expensify 員工轉移到新程序，測試它，然後開始過渡。

And we -- without talking about our future plans too much, we have exciting ways to incentivize our existing cardholders to move over to the new program because that's really what we want. We want to be able to migrate everyone over as fast as possible and sunset the old program. And more to come on that in the following quarters.

而且我們 - 在不過多談論我們未來的計劃的情況下，我們有令人興奮的方式來激勵我們現有的持卡人轉向新計劃，因為這正是我們想要的。我們希望能夠盡快將所有人遷移過來並淘汰舊程序。在接下來的幾個季度中還會有更多內容。

Cash-back for the year was $2.8 million -- yes, that's actually -- it's contra revenue. So that way, yes.

這一年的現金返還是 280 萬美元——是的，這實際上是——這是對沖收入。那樣的話，是的。

The anomalies continue. Cool. Now I have to see who else is left. Next up, we have Eric from Lake Street.

異常還在繼續。涼爽的。現在我得看看還剩下誰。接下來，我們有來自 Lake Street 的 Eric。

I've got a couple of questions here. I know you are not giving a revenue guidance anymore, but it is, to me, in Q4, we kind of -- this is a milestone because the revenue growth was only 8%, and you guys have historically been a double-digit grower. How should an investor view just the 2023 outlook? Do you guys view yourselves as -- and given the current volatility for SMB, do you view yourselves as a double-digit grower?

我在這裡有幾個問題。我知道你們不再給出收入指導，但對我來說，在第四季度，我們有點——這是一個里程碑，因為收入增長僅為 8%，而且你們在歷史上一直是兩位數的增長.投資者應該如何看待 2023 年的前景？你們認為自己是——考慮到 SMB 當前的波動性，你們認為自己是兩位數的增長者嗎？

Yes, I think so. Why we're going to continue to grow? I think it's -- I mean if we go into recession, recession is not good for anyone, but we -- I think we're better positioned than most, and we are profitable or cash flow positive, and we don't need to fundamentally change anything about our business model. We are layering on sales, I think will be helpful. It's been -- the SDRs are very new, but they're really starting to come online. So we'll start to see hopefully some greater results from that in '23. So yes, I think that we are well positioned going into the next year.

是的，我想是這樣。為什麼我們要繼續增長？我認為這是——我的意思是如果我們陷入衰退，衰退對任何人都不利，但我們——我認為我們比大多數人處於更好的位置，我們盈利或現金流為正，我們不需要從根本上改變我們的商業模式。我們正在對銷售進行分層，我認為這會有所幫助。它一直是——特別提款權是非常新的，但它們真的開始上線了。因此，我們將開始希望在 23 年看到一些更大的結果。所以是的，我認為我們已經做好了進入明年的準備。

And I understand you haven't stepped away from your long-term growth outlook. But -- obviously, the near term is a different playbook.

我知道你並沒有放棄你的長期增長前景。但是——顯然，近期是另一本不同的劇本。

Yes.

是的。

Okay. The interchange fees, I've heard you say in the past that in 2023, you're talking about interchange fees of around $2 million a quarter, and then that's stepping up to around $5 million a quarter in 2024. Are those still good numbers?

好的。交換費，我聽你過去說過，到 2023 年，你談論的是每季度約 200 萬美元的交換費，然後到 2024 年將增加到每季度約 500 萬美元。這些數字仍然不錯嗎？ ？

So that's -- you're asking for guidance. We don't give guidance. But I'd say the card is growing very well, obviously. So we don't expect that to dramatically slow down where -- it's a big focus for us. And all of our -- sales team members are pitching the card alongside the subscription. So we think it's going to continue to perform.

那就是——你在尋求指導。我們不提供指導。但我要說的是，這張卡顯然增長得很好。因此，我們不希望這會顯著放慢速度——這是我們關注的重點。我們所有的銷售團隊成員都在推銷卡片和訂閱。所以我們認為它會繼續表現。

Okay. And then you've made a big investment in account management. I think at the end of Q3, you had 41% of customers have been kind of touched by account management. And in today's press release, you said substantially all. As you are reaching out to these accounts, are you -- is the account management program being tweaked? Because I got to imagine we're getting into much smaller account sizes as we get down into the remainder of the installed base.

好的。然後您在帳戶管理方面進行了大量投資。我認為在第三季度末，您有 41% 的客戶對客戶管理有所觸動。在今天的新聞稿中，你說的基本上都是。當您接觸這些帳戶時，您是否正在調整帳戶管理程序？因為我不得不想像，隨著我們進入剩餘的已安裝基礎，我們將進入更小的帳戶規模。

The main goal of the account management program and really the job of the account manager is to be more proactive in terms of supporting the customer. What I mean by that is, a lot of the time, churn doesn't happen because the price is too high. It doesn't happen because they are looking for some feature that we're missing. It's because they have implemented Expensify on their end in some way that is too janky.

客戶管理計劃的主要目標和客戶經理的真正工作是在支持客戶方面更加積極主動。我的意思是，很多時候，客戶流失不會因為價格太高而發生。它不會發生，因為他們正在尋找我們缺少的某些功能。這是因為他們以某種過於簡陋的方式在他們的終端實施了 Expensify。

And so it's not quite working for them. And they think, therefore, the product is not working for them and they start looking for other alternatives. So what we're trying to do is use our account managers to sort of get in there early, make sure the setup is actually working for them. And if it isn't, like how can we help them set it up, so they never need to think about their expenses ever. Because once you do that, no price is too high to pay, and then it's smooth sailing and they're never going to take a sales call from a rep. So that's really the idea. And I think it equally lends itself to 10% company but also 500% company like a good setup is what is the primary goal of account managers.

所以這對他們來說不太管用。因此，他們認為該產品不適合他們，他們開始尋找其他替代品。因此，我們正在努力做的是讓我們的客戶經理儘早進入那裡，確保設置確實對他們有效。如果不是，比如我們如何幫助他們設置它，這樣他們就永遠不需要考慮他們的開支。因為一旦你這樣做了，沒有什麼價格是不能支付的，然後它就會一帆風順，他們永遠不會接聽銷售代表的銷售電話。這就是我們的想法。我認為它同樣適用於 10% 的公司，也適用於 500% 的公司，就像良好的設置是客戶經理的主要目標。

But then the other goals are things like looking at their bill, making sure that if they have high pay-per-use than making them cost optimize their bill so they can go to committed seats to the extent that works for their business, generally, just taking care of the customers, so they feel that Expensify in their corner. That really helps.

但是其他目標是查看他們的賬單，確保如果他們的每次使用付費比讓他們成本優化他們的賬單更高，那麼他們可以在對他們的業務有用的範圍內獲得承諾的席位，一般來說，只是照顧客戶，讓他們覺得 Expensify 在他們的角落裡。這真的很有幫助。

You've used the conversion rate of like when you touch a customer, they convert to subscription at 2x the control group. Is that still a good number?

當您接觸客戶時，您已經使用了類似的轉化率，他們以控制組的 2 倍轉化為訂閱。那還是一個好數字嗎？

That was what the early results that we saw. That's a good question and maybe some we can post on our FAQ. I don't -- that was true at one point. I don't know if it's true right now. I know that we have been successful in reversing the trend. So it's some good rates, but we can actually probably follow up with you on the Investor Relations site.

這就是我們看到的早期結果。這是一個很好的問題，也許我們可以在常見問題解答中發布一些問題。我不——這在某一時刻是真的。我不知道現在是不是真的。我知道我們已經成功地扭轉了趨勢。所以這是一些不錯的利率，但我們實際上可能會在投資者關係網站上跟進你。

But to put maybe a finer point on what Anu just said, a lot of our customers self-service, and small businesses grow quickly, their needs to change. So when they self-service with some sort of setup that works for them, their needs change and then they don't go back in kind of updating their setup. So that's when we say -- when we say janky, what she means is basically their needs have changed and they don't update it. So the account managers are basically saying, "Hey, is everything still working for you? Is anything frustrating you? And let's make sure you got the right configuration that works for you and your new needs." So I just want to clarify a little bit.

但是，也許可以更好地說明 Anu 剛才所說的話，我們的許多客戶都是自助服務，小型企業發展迅速，他們的需求正在發生變化。因此，當他們使用適合他們的某種設置進行自助服務時，他們的需求會發生變化，然後他們就不會返回更新他們的設置。所以當我們說——當我們說 janky 時，她的意思基本上是他們的需求已經改變並且他們沒有更新它。因此，客戶經理基本上是在說，“嘿，一切還對你有用嗎？有什麼讓你沮喪的嗎？讓我們確保你得到適合你和你的新需求的正確配置。”所以我只想澄清一點。

No, makes sense. Like a 10% company grows to 100% and they never look again at how they set it up. It just doesn't work anymore, but no one told them to think about that. That's really the opportunity. .

不，有道理。就像一家 10% 的公司發展到 100%，他們再也不會考慮他們是如何建立起來的。它只是不再起作用了，但沒有人告訴他們要考慮這一點。這真的是機會。 .

You go from no approvals to approvals to like a multi-level approval like that type of stuff. Yes.

你從不批准到批准，再到喜歡像那種東西的多級批准。是的。

And I think that's it.

我想就是這樣。

Great. Well, thank you all for joining us. We love doing these. We love talking to you. So if you have any questions, please follow up with us at investors@expensify.com. We're going to be posting your questions, like I said, on our Investors Relations page. And maybe your question will get featured on there. So thank you all, and we'll see you next quarter.

偉大的。好吧，謝謝大家加入我們。我們喜歡做這些。我們喜歡和你交談。因此，如果您有任何疑問，請通過 investors@expensify.com 與我們聯繫。正如我所說，我們將在我們的投資者關係頁面上發布您的問題。也許您的問題會出現在那裡。所以謝謝大家，我們下個季度見。

Bye, everyone.

回見了各位。