East West Bancorp Inc (EWBC) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day and welcome to the East West Bancorp fourth-quarter 2024 earnings call. (Operator Instructions) Please note that this event is being recorded.

大家好，歡迎參加東西銀行2024年第四季財報電話會議。（操作說明）請注意，本次活動正在錄影。

I would now like to turn the conference over to Adrienne Atkinson, Director of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

現在我將把會議交給投資人關係總監艾德麗安‧阿特金森女士。請繼續。

Thank you, operator. Good afternoon, and thank you, everyone, for joining us here at East West Bancorp's fourth-quarter and full-year 2024 financial results. With me are Dominic Ng, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer; Chris Del Moral-Miles, Chief Finance Officer; and Irene Oh, Chief Risk Officer. This call is being recorded and will be available for replay on our Investor Relations site.

謝謝接線生。下午好，感謝各位蒞臨參加東西銀行2024年第四季及全年財務表現發表會。與我同行的有：董事長兼執行長 Dominic Ng；財務長 Chris Del Moral-Miles；以及首席風險長 Irene Oh。本次電話會議正在錄音，錄音結束後將在我們的投資者關係網站上提供回放。

The slide deck referenced during this call is available on our Investor Relations site. Management may make projections or other forward-looking statements, which may differ materially from the actual results due to a number of risks and uncertainties. Management may discuss non-GAAP financial measures. For a more detailed description of the risk factor and a reconciliation of GAAP to non-GAAP financial measures, please refer to our filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including the Form 8-K filed today.

本次電話會議中提到的幻燈片資料可在我們的投資者關係網站上取得。管理階層可能會做出預測或其他前瞻性陳述，由於許多風險和不確定性，這些預測或陳述可能與實際結果有重大差異。管理層可能會討論非GAAP財務指標。有關風險因素的更詳細描述以及 GAAP 與非 GAAP 財務指標的調節，請參閱我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件，包括今天提交的 8-K 表格。

I will now turn the call over to Dominic.

現在我將把電話交給多明尼克。

Thank you, Adrienne. Good afternoon, and thank you for joining us for today's fourth-quarter and full-year 2024 Earnings Call. Before we begin, I'd like to express my sympathy to everyone impacted by the wildfires in Southern California. I would also like to extend my deep gratitude to the firefighters, public service workers, and volunteers who were on the front lines and are helping with recovery and cleanup efforts.

謝謝你，艾德琳。下午好，感謝各位參加今天的2024年第四季及全年業績電話會議。在開始之前，我想向所有受南加州山火影響的人們表達我的慰問。我還要向奮戰在一線並參與災後復原和清理工作的消防員、公共服務人員和志工們表達我深深的謝意。

During this time of need for our city, I'm proud of the actions East West is taking to support our customers, our community, and our associates. For customers impacted by the fires, we are offering accommodation on an as needed basis to help those who are impacted, focus on the health and safety of their families and businesses.

在我們城市需要幫助的這段時間裡，我為東西方集團為支持我們的客戶、社區和員工所採取的行動感到自豪。對於受火災影響的客戶，我們將根據需要提供住宿，以幫助受影響的人們專注於家人和企業的健康與安全。

We have also contributed significant relief funds for community members and associates who were impacted by the evacuation or who lost their home. We have assessed East West exposure which is minimal at this time. With that, let me turn to our financial results on Slide 4.

我們也為受疏散影響或失去家園的社區成員和同事提供了大量救濟資金。我們評估了東西向輻射的影響，目前來看影響甚微。接下來，讓我來看看投影片 4 的財務表現。

2024 was another record-breaking year for East West. Our highlights include new record levels for revenue, fee income, net income, earnings per share, and loans and deposits. Our results speak to the strength of East West brand and service model. I'm particularly proud of last year's over $7 billion of deposit growth. We grew average deposits by 9% year over year and average loans by 6% and further diversifying our portfolio by emphasizing residential and C&I lending.

2024年是東西方再次創紀錄的一年。我們的亮點包括收入、手續費收入、淨收入、每股盈餘以及貸款和存款均創歷史新高。我們的業績反映了東西方品牌和服務模式的實力。我尤其為去年超過70億美元的存款成長感到自豪。我們的平均存款年增 9%，平均貸款年增 6%，並透過重點發展住宅和工商業貸款，進一步實現了投資組合的多元化。

2024 was also a consecutive year of record fee income driven in part by consistent sales execution across our wealth management, commercial payments, and foreign exchange businesses. Asset quality remained relatively stable in 2024 with full year net charge-offs and year-end nonperforming assets, both of 26 basis points.

2024 年也是手續費收入連續創紀錄的一年，部分原因是我們在財富管理、商業支付和外匯業務方面持續的銷售業績。2024 年資產品質維持相對穩定，全年淨沖銷額和年末不良資產均為 26 個基點。

We maintain a disciplined approach to credit management in the fourth quarter but dealt with two problem credits, which Irene will elaborate on later. We believe these occurrence to be isolated events and are diligently pursuing recovery efforts. We remain vigilant about managing our credit risk and are proactively managing our risk profile. We delivered substantial returns for shareholders. In 2024, we reported tangible book value per share growth of 13% and generated a 17% return on tangible common equity.

我們在第四季度保持了嚴格的信貸管理方法，但處理了兩筆問題信貸，Irene 稍後會詳細說明。我們認為這些事件是孤立事件，並正在積極進行恢復工作。我們始終保持警惕，有效管理信用風險，並積極主動管理風險狀況。我們為股東帶來了豐厚的回報。2024 年，我們報告每股有形帳面價值成長了 13%，有形普通股權益回報率為 17%。

We were opportunistic in the fourth quarter and repurchased 200,000 shares at an average price of $98 per share. I'm also pleased to announce we approved an incremental share repurchase authorization of $300 million and a 9% increase to the quarterly dividend to $0.60 per share.

我們在第四季抓住機會，以每股 98 美元的平均價格回購了 20 萬股股票。我也很高興地宣布，我們批准了3億美元的額外股票回購授權，並將季度股息提高9%，至每股0.60美元。

Let me turn it to Chris for more details on the balance sheet and income statement.

讓我請克里斯來詳細解說資產負債表和損益表。

Thank you, Dominic. Let me start with deposits on slide 5.

謝謝你，多米尼克。讓我們先從第5頁投影片上的存款情況開始。

Over the past five years, East West growth has been deposit-led. This has allowed us to fund loans while maintaining strong balance sheet liquidity. In 2024, East West grew end-of-period deposits by 13% to a record $63.2 billion. In early 2024, we also repaid $4.5 billion of BTFP borrowings driven by our confidence in our ability to grow core deposits.

過去五年，東西銀行的成長主要由存款驅動。這使我們能夠在保持強勁資產負債表流動性的同時，為貸款提供資金。2024 年，東西銀行期末存款成長 13%，達到創紀錄的 632 億美元。2024 年初，由於我們對自身核心存款成長能力充滿信心，我們也償還了 45 億美元的 BTFP 借款。

During the fourth quarter, we saw a notable uptick in DDA and money market balances with continued overall stability in savings and time deposits. Our deposit mix has stabilized with DDA levels in the mid-20s. Our period-end total deposit costs declined a further 25 basis points in the fourth quarter to 2.59%.

第四季度，活期存款和貨幣市場餘額顯著上升，而儲蓄和定期存款則保持整體穩定。我們的存款結構已經穩定，DDA 水準在 20% 左右。在第四季末，我們的總存款成本進一步下降了 25 個基點，至 2.59%。

Looking into Q1, our 2025 Lunar New Year CD special was launched last week, offering a six-month CD at 4.18% and a nine-month CD at 4.08%. We believe these are competitive for our regional markets, and we expect good retention and potentially good traction on new money inflows at these price points. Notably, these levels are 107 and 117 basis points below last year's CD offering at 5.25%.

展望第一季度，我們於上週推出了 2025 年農曆新年 CD 特惠活動，提供 4.18% 的六個月 CD 和 4.08% 的九個月 CD。我們認為這些價格在我們的區域市場具有競爭力，我們預計這些價格點將帶來良好的客戶留存率和潛在的新資金流入。值得注意的是，這些水準比去年發行的 5.25% 的 CD 低 107 和 117 個基點。

Turning to loans on slide 6. East West grew total average loans by 6% for the year and end of period loan by 3%, in line with our prior guidance. C&I growth in the fourth quarter was driven by new credits as utilization was relatively stable quarter-over-quarter. Although we have yet to see evidence of increased demand in Q1, we expect C&I growth to pick up later in 2025 given the improving overall business sentiment.

接下來請看第6頁關於貸款的內容。東西行全年平均貸款總額成長 6%，期末貸款成長 3%，與我們先前的預期一致。第四季工商業信貸成長主要得益於新增信貸，因為信貸利用率較上季相對穩定。儘管我們尚未看到第一季需求增加的跡象，但鑑於整體商業信心的改善，我們預計工商業成長將在 2025 年稍後加速。

Residential mortgage had a good quarter in Q4, partly reflecting the drop in rates we saw in the third quarter. Despite the recent backup in rates, pipelines remain full going into the first quarter. We expect residential mortgage growth to continue at its current pace.

第四季住宅抵押貸款表現良好，部分原因是第三季利率下降。儘管近期運價有所回落，但第一季管道運輸仍滿載運轉。我們預計住宅抵押貸款的成長將繼續保持目前的速度。

Overall, we expect 2025 loan growth to be in the range of 4% to 6%, driven by strong growth in C&I production and continued residential mortgage strengths, leading to a further diversified and more balanced loan portfolio over time.

總體而言，我們預計 2025 年貸款成長率將在 4% 至 6% 之間，這主要得益於工商業貸款的強勁成長和住宅抵押貸款的持續強勁表現，從而隨著時間的推移，貸款組合將更加多元化和平衡。

Shifting to net interest income and net interest margin on slide 7. And as we guided, NII rebounded in the back half of the year, driven primarily by lower total deposit costs. Our net interest margin was stable at 3.24%, while our interest rate spread widened 9 basis points quarter over quarter. At the end of the fourth quarter, our end-of-period interest-bearing deposit costs have come down 49 basis points from the second quarter consistent with our expected 50% deposit beta.

第 7 頁將介紹淨利息收入和淨利差。正如我們之前預測的那樣，淨利息收入在下半年反彈，主要原因是存款總成本下降。我們的淨利差穩定在 3.24%，而我們的利差環比擴大了 9 個基點。在第四季末，我們的期末計息存款成本比第二季下降了 49 個基點，這與我們預期的 50% 存款貝塔係數相符。

In the fourth quarter, our total hedges cost us $18 million of net interest income or 10 basis points to NIM. In January, $0.5 billion of negative carry swaps rolled off and a further $0.5 billion is set to roll off in February. These two maturities will alleviate approximately half of our negative hedge impact. The benefit of these hedges rolling off, our expected balance sheet growth, and our improving deposit costs and mix should combine to support net interest income and margin levels from here.

第四季度，我們的對沖總成本使我們損失了 1,800 萬美元的淨利息收入，相當於淨利差下降了 10 個基點。1 月份，5 億美元的負收益互換到期，另有 5 億美元將於 2 月份到期。這兩筆到期交易將緩解我們大約一半的負面對沖影響。這些對沖到期帶來的好處、我們預期的資產負債表成長以及我們不斷改善的存款成本和結構，應該能夠共同支撐淨利息收入和利潤率水準。

Our outlook for net interest income assumes [two 25-basis-point] cuts during 2025, resulting in a gradually steeping yield curve as the implied year-end curves suggested.

我們對淨利息收入的展望假設 2025 年將有兩次 25 個基點的降息，這將導致殖利率曲線逐漸陡峭化，正如隱含的年末殖利率曲線所顯示的那樣。

Moving on to fee income. Fee income grew by 11% over the last four years and grew by 12% in 2024. As Dominic mentioned, we achieved record fee income in 2024. Our strength over the past year was driven by sales execution in wealth management and foreign exchange and strong traction in treasury management sales, particularly around commercial payments activity.

接下來談談手續費收入。過去四年，費用收入成長了 11%，預計 2024 年將成長 12%。正如多明尼克所提到的，我們在 2024 年實現了創紀錄的費用收入。過去一年，我們的業績成長主要得益於財富管理和外匯銷售的優異表現，以及資金管理銷售，特別是商業支付業務的強勁成長。

East West has been consistently growing wealth management, foreign exchange and deposit account fees at over 20% per year, and we remain focused on driving this growth as we look into 2025. Taking NII and fee income together, we expect total revenue growth in 2025 in the order of 5% to 7%.

東西銀行的財富管理、外匯和存款帳戶費用一直維持著每年 20% 以上的成長速度，展望 2025 年，我們將繼續專注於推動這一成長。綜合考慮淨利息收入和手續費收入，我們預計 2025 年總收入成長將達到 5% 至 7%。

Turning now to expenses on slide 9. East West continue to deliver industry-leading efficiency. Fourth-quarter efficiency ratio was 36.9%. Excluding FDIC special deposit insurance assessment charges, total operating noninterest expenses have grown on average at an 8% clip over the past five years, including in 2024. This is in line with our expectations for 2025. Expense growth is expected to be driven primarily by investments in our people and tech to support our growth strategies.

現在來看第 9 頁的費用狀況。東西方持續保持業界領先的效率。第四季效率比率為36.9%。除聯邦存款保險公司特別存款保險評估費外，過去五年（包括 2024 年）非利息營運總支出平均增加了 8%。這符合我們對2025年的預期。預計支出成長主要源於對員工和技術的投資，以支持我們的成長策略。

Now, I'll hand the call over to Irene for some comments on credit and capital.

現在，我將把電話交給艾琳，請她就信貸和資本問題發表一些看法。

Thank you, Chris, and good afternoon to all on the call. As shown on slide 10, the credit environment is benign and the asset quality of our portfolio as a whole remains solid. Provision for credit losses increased $28 million from the third quarter to $70 million. Net charge-offs in the fourth quarter were $64 million. The net charge-offs for the fourth quarter largely stemmed from two domestic commercial and industrial credits. These two credits were unrelated, but both loans were made to companies in the technology sector, and we had determined in the fourth quarter that the collateral and AR were not collectible.

謝謝你，克里斯，也祝所有參加電話會議的人下午好。如投影片 10 所示，信貸環境良好，我們投資組合的整體資產品質依然穩健。信貸損失準備金較第三季增加 2,800 萬美元，達到 7,000 萬美元。第四季淨沖銷額為 6,400 萬美元。第四季的淨沖銷主要源自於兩筆國內商業和工業信用。這兩筆貸款彼此無關，但都是發給科技業的公司，我們在第四季已經確定抵押品和應收帳款無法收回。

Nonperforming assets remained stable at 26 basis points of total assets quarter-over-quarter. The special mention loan ratio improved slightly to 83 basis points, while the classified loans ratio increased 15 basis points to 135 basis points. The absolute level of problem loans, migration into criticized loan categories, and nonperforming loans remain low and at manageable levels. Regarding the wildfires in Los Angeles, we are actively accessing our exposure from the Palisades and Eaton Canyon fires. Based on what we currently know, we expect our direct exposure to be minimal.

不良資產佔總資產的比例較上季保持穩定，為 26 個基點。特別關注貸款比率略微改善至 83 個基點，而不良貸款比率上升 15 個基點至 135 個基點。問題貸款的絕對數量、遷移到不良貸款類別的數量以及不良貸款的數量仍然很低，處於可控水平。關於洛杉磯的野火，我們正在積極評估帕利塞茲和伊頓峽谷火災對我們的影響。根據我們目前掌握的信息，我們預計我們的直接風險敞口將非常小。

To date, we have identified 32 loans totaling $26 million outstanding that are impacted. These are largely consumer mortgage loans but the numbers are inclusive of any direct exposure in entire loan portfolio, including collateral commercial real estate, multifamily, and commercial and industrial loans. Further, our gross exposures to loans in the vicinity of the Hughes fire just north of Los Angeles is very limited. Based on these preliminary results from the impact of the wildfires, we foresee very limited credit impact to East West at this time. We remain vigilant and proactive in managing our credit risk. Based on what we know today, we are projecting that full-year 2025 net charge-offs to be in the range of 25 to 35 basis points.

截至目前，我們已確定有 32 筆貸款受到影響，未償還貸款總額達 2,600 萬美元。這些主要是消費抵押貸款，但這些數字包含了整個貸款組合中的任何直接風險敞口，包括抵押商業房地產、多戶住宅以及商業和工業貸款。此外，我們在洛杉磯北部休斯山火附近的貸款總風險敞口非常有限。根據野火影響的初步結果，我們預期目前對東西方信用評等的影響非常有限。我們將繼續保持警惕，積極主動地管理信用風險。根據我們目前掌握的信息，我們預計 2025 年全年淨沖銷額將在 25 至 35 個基點之間。

As seen on slide 11, our allowance for credit losses ended the fourth quarter at $702 million or 1.31%, unchanged from the prior quarter-end. We believe our loan portfolio is appropriately reserved as of December 31, 2024.

如投影片 11 所示，我們的信貸損失準備金在第四季末為 7.02 億美元，佔 1.31%，與上一季末持平。我們認為截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日，我們的貸款組合已適當提列準備金。

Turning to slide 12. East West regulatory capital ratios remain well in excess of regulatory requirements for well-capitalized institutions and well above regional bank averages. East West Common Equity Tier 1 capital ratio stands at a robust 14.3%, while the tangible common equity ratio is at 9.6%. Our Board of Directors has declared a first quarter of 2025 common stock dividend of $0.60 per share, a 9% increase to the dividend. The dividend will be payable on February 17 to stockholders of record on February 3.

翻到第12張投影片。東西方監理資本比率仍遠高於資本充足機構的監理要求，也遠高於區域銀行平均。東西方普通股一級資本適足率達穩健的 14.3%，有形普通股資本適足率為 9.6%。我們的董事會宣布，2025 年第一季普通股股息為每股 0.60 美元，比股息增加 9%。股利將於2月17日支付給2月3日登記在冊的股東。

East West opportunistically repurchased 200,000 shares of common stock during the fourth quarter of 2024 for $20 million. Additionally, our Board has approved a new $300 million repurchase authorization, resulting in $329 million of total current authorization available.

2024 年第四季度，East West 趁機回購了 20 萬股普通股，花了 2,000 萬美元。此外，我們的董事會已批准一項新的 3 億美元回購授權，使得目前可用的總授權額度達到 3.29 億美元。

I will now turn it back to Chris to share a few comments on our outlook for the full year. Chris?

現在我將把麥克風交還給克里斯，讓他談談我們對全年的展望。克里斯？

Thank you, Irene. With respect to our guidance, as previously mentioned, our outlook assumes modest economic growth, and further cuts of 50 basis points over the course of 2025, consistent with the year-end yield curve. We expect end-of-period loans to grow in the range of 4% to 6% with continued relative strength in both C&I and residential lending.

謝謝你，艾琳。關於我們的指引，如同先前所提到的，我們的展望假設經濟溫和成長，並在 2025 年進一步降息 50 個基點，這與年底殖利率曲線一致。我們預計期末貸款成長率將在 4% 至 6% 之間，其中工商業貸款和住宅貸款將繼續保持相對強勁勢頭。

We expect net interest income to grow in the range of 4% to 6%, driven by balance sheet growth and total revenue growth in the range of 5% to 7% bolstered by our continued momentum in our fee income businesses.

我們預計淨利息收入將成長 4% 至 6%，這主要得益於資產負債表的成長；同時，在手續費收入業務持續成長的推動下，總收入預計將成長 5% 至 7%。

Total operating expenses are expected to increase in the range of 7% to 9% year over year, driven primarily by headcount and IT-related expenditures, offset partly by lower expected deposit account expenses. Again, we expect full-year net charge-offs in the range of 25 to 35 basis points and our effective tax rate in the range of 21% to 23%.

總營運支出將年增 7% 至 9%，主要原因是人員編制和 IT 相關支出增加，部分被預期存款帳戶支出減少所抵銷。我們預計全年淨沖銷額將在 25 至 35 個基點之間，實際稅率將在 21% 至 23% 之間。

With that, now let me open the call up for questions. Operator?

接下來，我將開放提問環節。操作員？

(Operator Instructions) Jared Shaw. Barclays.

（操作說明）賈里德·肖。巴克萊銀行。

Yeah. Good afternoon, everybody.

是的。大家下午好。

Hey. Good afternoon, Jared.

嘿。下午好，賈里德。

Maybe just starting with the expense guide. When you look at the investments in people and technology that you're highlighting, how should we think about that sort of being layered in during the course of the year? And is most of that in preparation for Category 4 or how would you sort of describe the color around the investments there?

或許可以先從費用指南開始。當你看到你強調的對人才和技術的投資時，我們該如何考慮在這一年中逐步實施這些投資？這些投資大部分是為了因應第四類風險嗎？或者您會如何描述這些投資的性質？

Yeah. I think we continue to make the investments we need to be for the bank we expect to be over the coming years, and we expect the bank will be a strong, capable, and well-positioned bank to meet all the needs of our customers in the years ahead.

是的。我認為我們將繼續進行必要的投資，以成為我們未來幾年期望成為的那種銀行，我們期望這家銀行能夠成為一家實力雄厚、能力卓越、定位精準的銀行，以滿足我們客戶在未來幾年的所有需求。

With that in mind, I would note that our expense percentage is high relative perhaps to some others. But keep in mind, it's off of a much smaller base. And so our implied revenue growth far outstrips even the larger percentage expense growth and meets the positive operating leverage.

考慮到這一點，我想指出，與其他一些公司相比，我們的費用比例可能較高。但請記住，它的基數要小得多。因此，我們隱含的收入成長遠遠超過了更大的支出成長百分比，並達到了正向經營槓桿。

Okay, great. Thanks for that color. And then I guess it's great to see the announcement of a buyback or increasing the buyback. But when we look at it in light of sort of the limited amount of repurchase that you've done in the past, should we think that this is a change in the philosophy around utilizing the buyback with this capital level, or is it more you just want to have the flexibility in the future to buy back stock if something changes?

好的，太好了。謝謝你提供的顏色。然後，看到政府宣布回購或增加回購計劃，我覺得很棒。但是，考慮到您過去回購股票的數量有限，我們是否應該認為這是貴公司在現有資本水平下回購股票策略的轉變，還是說貴公司只是想在未來情況發生變化時擁有回購股票的靈活性？

The philosophy here has been opportunistic. We were opportunistic in the fourth quarter. We'll continue to be opportunistic, but we certainly like the price points that we saw in the fourth quarter, and we have plenty of flexibility to do what's in the best interest of our shareholders.

這裡的理念是機會主義的。我們在第四季抓住了機會。我們將繼續抓住機會，但我們當然喜歡第四季的價格點，而且我們有足夠的靈活性來做對股東最有利的事情。

Is that opportunistic view only around the share price? Or is it more a broader view of potentially seeing lower capital ratios?

這種投機取巧的觀點是否只針對股價？或者，這是否意味著資本充足率可能會降低，是一種更廣泛的觀點？

I think we operate from a position of capital strength that has served the company very, very well, being one of the better capitalized banks in the industry allows us to withstand whatever comes and gives the bank the flexibility to be here for our customers regardless of the economic or rate environment that's out there and regardless of events like fires that may tragically impact some of our customers.

我認為我們憑藉雄厚的資本實力運營，這對公司發展非常有利。作為業內資本最充足的銀行之一，我們能夠抵禦任何挑戰，並賦予銀行靈活性，無論經濟或利率環境如何，也無論發生火災等可能對部分客戶造成悲劇性影響的事件，我們都能始終為客戶提供服務。

Being here with that strength is a differentiator for East West. And if we weren't earning 17% returns on tangible capital, it would be of concern. But since we've been able to do that consistently year in, year out for years, I think it's a great place to be.

擁有這樣的實力是東西方的一大優勢。如果我們沒有獲得 17% 的有形資本回報率，那就令人擔憂。但既然我們多年來一直能夠做到這一點，我認為這裡是一個很棒的地方。

Great. Thank you for that.

偉大的。謝謝。

Manan Gosalia, Morgan Stanley.

馬南‧戈薩利亞，摩根士丹利。

Hi, good afternoon. I wanted to start on deposit costs. They're down nicely, 50 basis points or still on the interest-bearing side. So I guess you're getting a 50% beta there. I know some of your CDs still have to reprice lower. So where do you think we should shake out on deposit betas. Is there a lot more room for that to go down from here?

您好，下午好。我想先從存款費用說起。它們已經大幅下降了 50 個基點，或仍然處於計息狀態。所以我覺得你拿到的是 50% 的測試版。我知道你們有些CD還需要降價。那麼，你認為我們應該如何決定存款β價值？還有很大的下降空間嗎？

Manan, we've been guiding to about a 50% beta, and we're pleased to see that the results over the last couple of quarters have been consistent with that. I think we'll continue to see positive momentum on that as long as rates are moving lower or expected to move lower. And so we have that benefit that the CDs effectively repriced a little bit ahead of the actual Fed cuts. And so that will continue to be to our benefit here over the near term. We'll see where things shake out with the yield curve as we get later into the back half of the year.

Manan，我們一直預期 beta 值約為 50%，我們很高興看到過去幾季的結果與此一致。我認為，只要利率持續走低或預期走低，我們就會看到這方面的正面動能持續下去。因此，我們有這樣的好處：CD 的價格實際上在聯準會實際降息之前就已經略微重新調整了。因此，在短期內，這將繼續對我們有利。我們將拭目以待，看看下半年殖利率曲線的最終走向。

I think last quarter, you noted that $20 billion or so of the $23 billion in CDs were due to reprice in the next three quarters. Do you have that number for the end of the fourth quarter?

我認為上個季度您提到，230億美元的CD中約有200億美元將在未來三個季度重新定價。你有第四季末的那個數字嗎？

Yeah. There's $10 billion repricing in Q1 and another [$7 billion-ish, $8 billion-ish] in inflation in Q2. And then it drops off to less than [$2 billion] in Q3.

是的。第一季有 100 億美元的重新定價，第二季還有大約 70 億到 80 億美元的通貨膨脹。然後，第三季下降到不到 20 億美元。

Got it. Okay. And maybe as a follow-up on loan growth. I know you noted that you expect C&I growth to pick up with improving business sentiment. Can you give us some more color on what you're seeing there? And maybe as tariffs roll through, would that have an impact on growth or investment spend among your client base?

知道了。好的。或許可以作為貸款成長的後續措施。我知道您曾表示，隨著商業信心的改善，您預計工商業成長將會加快。你能詳細描述一下你在那裡看到的情況嗎？隨著關稅的逐步實施，這會對您的客戶群的成長或投資支出產生影響嗎？

I think I heard the first part of your question is sort of what's driving our positive outlook with business sentiment, and the reality is commitments are up 5% year over year. So we know there's dry powder and our customers capacity to draw and there's active dialogue with a number of customers across a number of industries.

我想我聽到你問題的第一部分是關於是什麼推動了我們對商業信心的積極展望，而現實情況是，承諾額同比增長了 5%。所以我們知道資金充足，我們的客戶也有能力提取資金，並且我們正在與多個行業的眾多客戶進行積極的對話。

Obviously, we have a strong entertainment business. We have positive outlook on that. We'll wait to see what the private equity market does, partly rate dependent. But we know that there'll be interest in a variety of projects and opportunities as we move through the year, and then it will be a matter of time of how those roll along.

顯然，我們擁有強大的娛樂產業。我們對此持樂觀態度。我們將拭目以待私募股權市場的動向，這在一定程度上取決於利率。但我們知道，隨著時間的推移，大家會對各種專案和機會感興趣，至於這些專案和機會如何發展，就只是時間問題了。

The second part of your question, Manan, I missed. Maybe you can repeat it.

馬南，你問題的第二部分我沒回答上來。或許你可以重複這個過程。

So it was just if tariffs would impact that outlook?

所以問題就在於關稅是否會對前景產生影響？

At this point in time, as we look back over the last eight years, the overall growth in the balance sheet, both on the loan and deposit side was fairly unimpacted by both the introduction of tariffs and the extension of tariffs under the Biden administration. And so the reality is, at this point in time, we don't have a reason to believe it will have a material impact.

回顧過去八年，資產負債表的整體成長，無論是貸款或存款，都未受到拜登政府引入關稅和延長關稅的影響。因此，現實情況是，就目前而言，我們沒有理由相信它會產生實質影響。

Obviously, I think we're all waiting to see what tariffs ultimately come to pass. But based on what we've seen so far, and there's a (inaudible) orders, so I may have missed some, we don't expect much at this point in time.

顯然，我想我們都在等待最終的關稅政策出台。但根據我們目前所看到的，而且還有一些（聽不清楚）命令，所以我可能錯過了一些，因此我們目前不抱太大期望。

But in any case, our customers have had eight years on their own to prepare for these, many of them have reorganized their supply chains, many of them have prepared themselves for the expectation here of tariffs. And so the reality is, I think that many of our customers have taken a proactive stance to managing their business, and we're being supportive in whatever way we can. But that's for politicians to decide where they land on that. We're just here to support our customers.

但無論如何，我們的客戶有八年的時間來為此做好準備，他們中的許多人已經重組了供應鏈，許多人已經為即將到來的關稅做好了準備。因此，我認為現實情況是，我們的許多客戶都採取了積極主動的態度來管理他們的業務，而我們也盡我們所能地提供支援。但這要由政治家來決定他們在這個問題上的立場。我們來這裡只是為了支持我們的客戶。

I just want to add just on the record. And for the last eight years, East West Bank did not make any kind of M&A activity, acquisition whatnot. And -- but we were able to grow our deposits at an annual growth rate of 10%. And on the deposit side, confidentially, we also were able to grow our deposits on an annual basis at 10%. So we actually pretty much outgrew most of our competitors at our peer group while we did not even use any kind of M&A activities to supplement that.

我只想補充一點，以作記錄。在過去的八年裡，華美銀行沒有進行任何併購活動。但是—我們的存款實現了每年 10% 的成長率。存款方面，我們也可以私下透露，我們的存款每年增加 10%。所以，實際上，我們在發展速度上已經遠遠超過了同行業的絕大多數競爭對手，而我們甚至沒有進行任何併購活動來彌補這一差距。

And that's kind of like give you a pretty good perspective that tariffs, more tariffs, global tariffs, whatever, right? I mean somehow East West bank will be able to figure out how to navigate. I really think that at the end of the day, it gets back down to knowledge and expertise and recognizing where the path that East West should take and to appropriately find way to grow organically.

這樣就能讓你對關稅、更多關稅、全球關稅等等有比較清楚的認識，對吧？我的意思是，東西銀行總是能找到解決辦法。我真的認為，歸根結底，這取決於知識和專業技能，以及認識到東西方應該走哪條路，並找到合適的有機成長方式。

We've done that for the last eight years, and we feel very comfortable that in the next four years, we would be able to find a way to continue our successful growth.

過去八年我們一直這樣做，我們非常有信心在未來四年內，我們能夠找到繼續保持成功成長的方法。

I appreciate that. Thank you.

我很感激。謝謝。

Ebrahim Poonawala, Bank of America ML.

Ebrahim Poonawala，美國銀行 ML。

Good afternoon. I guess maybe first on just commercial real estate. Heard your comments on loan growth. Remind us what we should expect on CRE loan balances. Are those growing? Are they going to be running off and that's probably netting out in terms of your loan growth guidance?

午安.我想或許首先應該只關注商業不動產。我聽到了您對貸款成長的看法。請提醒我們商業房地產貸款餘額方面應該有哪些預期。它們還在生長嗎？它們是否會大量外流，這可能會對你們的貸款成長預期產生負面影響？

And if rates remain where they are or if the curve moves up by another 30, 50 basis points, is there any incremental credit risk that you see in the CRE book?

如果利率不變，或利率曲線再上升 30、50 個基點，您認為商業房地產業務中是否有任何新增的信用風險？

So [EB], I you look at the last quarter or the last year, total CRE balances are actually both down a bit either over both periods. We are focusing on growing our C&I and residential. And yes, we expect CRE growth will be more muted as we move forward.

所以 [EB]，如果你看一下上個季度或上一年，商業房地產總餘額實際上在這兩個時期都略有下降。我們正致力於發展工商業和住宅業務。是的，我們預計未來商業房地產的成長速度將會放緩。

From a credit risk perspective, I think we would say we have a very strong credit profile in the book. Obviously, lower rates helps many of our customers in that space, higher rates would hurt some.

從信用風險的角度來看，我認為我們可以說我們在帳簿上擁有非常強勁的信用狀況。顯然，較低的利率對我們許多客戶都有好處，而較高的利率則會損害部分客戶的利益。

The good news is that the pages in the appendix of our materials show, our LTVs are such and our average loan sizes are such that, in many cases, small rate impacts will have no impact. Keep in mind, these customers were paying when rates were 100 basis points higher, they won't really have that many issues, we hope, as we move forward. And in any case, we're working with all our customers to make sure we are ready for whatever changes they face and help them through it.

好消息是，我們資料附錄中的頁面顯示，我們的貸款價值比 (LTV) 和平均貸款規模在許多情況下，利率的小幅波動不會產生任何影響。請記住，這些客戶是在利率高出 100 個基點時支付的，我們希望，隨著我們繼續前進，他們不會遇到太多問題。總之，我們正在與所有客戶合作，確保我們做好準備應對他們面臨的任何變化，並幫助他們度過難關。

EB, just also specifically in answer to your question, I don't think that kind of modest increase in long-term rates really impacts our loans in our portfolio. They're more tied to the short-term rates.

EB，也刻意回答你的問題，我認為長期利率的這種小幅上漲並不會真正影響我們投資組合中的貸款。它們與短期利率的關係更為密切。

That's helpful. Thank you. And I guess just a follow-up, Chris, your point about on a dollar basis, I think you mentioned revenue should expect -- exceed expenses going up this year. But given sort of this preparation for CAT 4, are there investments you're making? Is the efficiency ratio generally trending higher? I mean, again, it's best-in-class where it is today. But I'm wondering, should we be thinking about it in terms of the efficiency ratio maybe drift higher over the next few years or this is just limited to this year in terms of the guidance?

那很有幫助。謝謝。克里斯，我想再補充一點，你剛才提到，以美元計算，今年的收入應該會超過支出。但鑑於目前對 CAT 4 考試的準備情況，您是否正在進行一些投資？效率比率整體呈現上升趨勢嗎？我的意思是，再說一遍，就目前而言，它仍然是同類產品中最好的。但我很好奇，我們是否應該考慮未來幾年效率比率可能會上升，還是說這只是今年的預期？

If we look back over the last several years, it's been growing at a faster clip. So I think the reality is, we're acknowledging the pace that we've been on for the last several years and expecting 2025 won't be materially different.

回顧過去幾年，它的成長速度一直在加快。所以我認為現實情況是，我們承認過去幾年我們一直保持著這樣的發展速度，並預期 2025 年不會有實質的差異。

We have a long-term vision for investing in the platforms and people to make us the bank we want to be. We're going to get there. I don't know that, that means we have changed anything about our long-term philosophy about being best-in-class efficiency, and I don't expect it to materially change the average trajectory we've been on for efficiency over the last several years.

我們有長遠的願景，投資於平台和人才，使我們成為我們想要成為的銀行。我們一定會到達那裡。我不知道這意味著我們改變了長期以來追求一流效率的理念，而且我也不認為這會實​​質地改變我們過去幾年在效率方面所取得的平均成就。

We've been able to grow, make the investments we need to make, and deliver consistent profitability over that last decade, last three decades under Dominic's leadership, I think we can continue that for seven more years to go.

在多明尼克的領導下，過去十年、三十年裡，我們實現了成長，進行了必要的投資，並持續獲利，我認為我們還能再維持七年的獲利能力。

Let me add by saying that, obviously, for us, we will pay more attention to return on equity, return on assets, earning per share growth, et cetera. Efficiency is one of the components that we are obviously have it available to share with the public. It's not for me as a high priority.

我還要補充一點，很顯然，對我們來說，我們會更關注股本報酬率、資產報酬率、每股盈餘成長等等。效率是我們顯然可以與公眾分享的要素之一。對我來說，這不是當務之急。

Let me put it this way. The reason I say this is that while we are growing, we'll continue to expand into other products and fee revenues. And when you change the business model gradually, East West would never do anything dramatically. So you don't have to worry about that. That's why you see our consistent high performance year in, year out, quarter after quarter, record-breaking after record-breaking. So you wouldn't have to worry about suddenly we go pivot to a direction that's shocking everybody.

我換個說法吧。我這麼說的原因是，在我們發展壯大的同時，我們將繼續拓展其他產品和費用收入。如果逐步改變商業模式，東西方集團永遠不會採取任何劇烈的行動。所以你不用擔心。這就是為什麼你會看到我們年復一年、季度復一季度地保持高水準的業績，不斷打破紀錄。所以你們不必擔心我們會突然轉向一個令所有人震驚的方向。

But while we are not going to that direction, you may notice that we keep it calling out these record fee income for wealth management, record fee income for cash management, fee income, foreign exchange, et cetera, et cetera, is that we will continue to build our capabilities, our talent and continue to acquire more clients that will actually utilize this product that generate fee income for us.

雖然我們不會朝那個方向發展，但您可能會注意到，我們不斷強調財富管理、現金管理、外匯等方面的創紀錄費用收入，這說明我們將繼續提升自身能力和人才水平，並繼續吸引更多真正使用該產品、為我們創造費用收入的客戶。

While we're doing that, I think the expense ratio will be different than a predominantly loans and deposits shop, right?

我認為，在我們這樣做的時候，費用率會與主要從事貸款和存款業務的機構有所不同，對嗎？

The key really coming back down to, so we start actually diversifying the income stream, what does that mean? My position is that we know exactly what the healthiest way to grow East West Bank balance sheet and our P&L, and we understand how we should look at our performance comparing with our peers. And as long as we continue to outperform our peers and sit in the top quartile, we're good.

關鍵歸根究底在於，當我們開始真正實現收入來源多元化時，這又意味著什麼？我的立場是，我們非常清楚發展東西銀行資產負債表和損益表的最健康方式，我們也明白應該如何看待我們與同業相比的績效。只要我們繼續超越同行，保持在前四分之一的水平，我們就沒問題。

So that's the reason why I look at it if the efficiency ratio from 36% to 40%, it's not a big deal. And quite frankly, right now, it looks ridiculously low right now, so I'm not too worried about it.

所以，這就是為什麼我認為，如果效率從 36% 提高到 40%，那並沒有什麼大不了的。坦白說，現在這個數字看起來低得離譜，所以我並不太擔心。

Very clear. Thank you.

非常清楚。謝謝。

Timur Brazilier, Wells Fargo.

Timur Brazilier，富國銀行。

Hi, good afternoon. Just looking at some of the loans that were affected by the wildfires. Just remind us of the insurance requirements for your SFR book specifically? And then maybe just walk us through kind of the time line of insurance collections and what the obligations of the bank might be to the impacted borrowers?

您好，下午好。我只是看一下受山火影響的一些貸款。請您具體提醒一下您的單戶住宅保險的具體要求？然後，能否簡單介紹一下保險理賠的時間線，以及銀行對受影響借款人的義務？

Yeah. So great question, Timur. And as we look at the exposure and the loans, I can also say affirmatively that all impacted properties are covered under -- with hazard assurance that's adequate for our loans.

是的。蒂穆爾，你問得好。當我們審視風險敞口和貸款時，我也可以肯定地說，所有受影響的房產都已投保——我們貸款的風險保障是足夠的。

We've gone through this in the past as well. I've mentioned I think the wildfires, let's say, in 2020 or beyond years past, at the end of the day, the track market that we have is we really don't have much impact because we make sure that the hazard assurance is there, placed on a properties. The LTVs are low, borrowers have enough equity to rebuild.

我們以前也經歷過這種情況。我之前提到過，我認為像 2020 年或更早年份發生的野火，歸根結底，我們所處的市場實際上並沒有受到太大影響，因為我們確保了房產都投保了災害保險。貸款價值比低，借款人擁有足夠的資產進行重建。

But realistically, these things can take time and also, especially for mortgages. consumer loans where people live in these homes, this is certainly something where we will accommodate our customers and their needs.

但實際上，這些事情都需要時間，尤其是對於抵押貸款和消費貸款而言，考慮到人們居住在這些房屋中，我們當然會盡力滿足客戶的需求。

Okay. And then maybe this is hard to kind of frame, but just looking at the impact on the small business side and potential C&I impact, how do you start to frame some of that potential disruption? And maybe what are some of the expectations for East West to participate in the recovery process?

好的。然後，這或許很難用語言來描述，但僅僅從對小企業的影響以及對工商業的潛在影響來看，你該如何開始描述這些潛在的破壞呢？那麼，東西方對參與復甦過程有哪些期望呢？

Yeah, great question. At first blush, as we're looking through our portfolios, this review also included commercial and industrial loans as far as business that were located in the impacted areas or businesses that might have had collateral in those impacted areas.

嗯，問得好。乍一看，當我們查看我們的投資組合時，這次審查也包括了商業和工業貸款，涉及位於受影響地區的企業或可能在這些受影響地區有抵押品的企業。

As you know, we have many C&I loans where they are collateralized by real estate, maybe sometimes totally unrelated to the actual business. So from that perspective, we're very comfortable because those factors are included in the numbers I shared earlier.

如您所知，我們有許多工商貸款以房地產為抵押，而這些房地產有時可能與實際業務完全無關。所以從這個角度來看，我們非常放心，因為這些因素都包含在我之前分享的數字中。

Small businesses that impact one by one. We are reaching out to the customers to get that information thus far, I would say there hasn't been anything that we're really concerned about. But again, small business owners are part of the community. And if there are things that we need to do to accommodate, we'll certainly look at that.

一家接著一家的小企業，產生深遠的影響。我們正在聯繫客戶以獲取相關信息，到目前為止，我認為還沒有出現任何讓我們真正擔心的事情。但話說回來，小企業主也是社區的一部分。如果需要採取任何措施來滿足這些要求，我們一定會考慮的。

Great. And then just lastly --

偉大的。最後，--

I want to add that there are substantial assistance coming from both federal, state and local government. So obviously, for small business, SBA is out there [our register], sent for relief and then FEMA, et cetera. So just -- it's not only East West that we are more than happy to provide flexible solutions to accommodate our small business customers, but also out there, plenty of resources that are ready to support these customers that are impacted by the wild fires.

我想補充一點，聯邦、州和地方政府都提供了大量援助。所以很明顯，對於小型企業來說，美國小型企業管理局 (SBA) 就在那裡（我們的登記冊），可以申請救濟，然後是聯邦緊急事務管理局 (FEMA) 等等。所以，不僅東西方集團非常樂意提供靈活的解決方案來滿足小型企業客戶的需求，而且還有很多資源隨時準備為受野火影響的客戶提供支援。

Great. And then just last for me, looking at the end-of-period balance versus the average, both are up, end of period, obviously, up much more. I'm just wondering, does all of that stick around into the first quarter or some of that end-of-period growth in DDA transitory in nature?

偉大的。最後，讓我看一下期末餘額與平均值，兩者都在上漲，期末餘額顯然上漲幅度更大。我只是想知道，這些成長是否會持續到第一季，還是說期末DDA成長的部分原因是暫時的？

Well, sure, we have some year-end transitory deposits, but I think what we draw comfort from is, as we sit here, a few weeks into the quarter, our DDA mix seems to have stabilized where we are, and we think it probably is on a positive trajectory as we move forward.

當然，我們有一些年底的過渡性存款，但我認為讓我們感到欣慰的是，就目前而言，本季度已經過去幾週了，我們的DDA組合似乎已經穩定下來，我們認為隨著我們向前邁進，它可能會呈現積極的發展趨勢。

Great. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝。

Ben Gerlinger, Citi.

本‧格林格，花旗銀行。

Hey, good afternoon to everyone. It kind of follows up on the Manan's question. When you think about just the CD repricing, I know we know your specials has already started with Lunar New Year's actually next week. And I'm pretty sure you have some hedge roll off. I think it was mid-quarter. So when you think about just kind of the net impact outside of kind of loans and deposits, I guess, you say. Can you give us some color of kind of what you're expecting, like margin might be for 1Q, 2Q just because 1Q had so much noise in it.

大家好，下午好。這算是對馬南人問題的進一步探討。光是想想 CD 的重新定價，我們就知道你們的特價活動已經開始了，實際上下週就是農曆新年了。而且我很確定你有一些樹籬卷材。我想應該是季度中期。所以，當你考慮貸款和存款以外的淨影響時，我想你會這麼說。你能大概描述一下你的預期嗎？例如，利潤率可能是針對第一季和第二季的，因為第一季的數據波動太大了。

Yeah. I mean, I think the short-term answer is it will get better. So the reality is, we don't expect much, if anything, on the rate action side in Q1, at least that's not what the forward said. We know the hedges are rolling off, and we know that we're going to reprice some deposits still lower. So all of that's positive.

是的。我的意思是，我認為短期內情況會好轉。所以現實情況是，我們預期第一季利率方面不會有太大動作，至少遠期市場是這麼預測的。我們知道對沖交易正在逐步取消，我們也知道我們將進一步降低一些存款的價格。所以這一切都是正面的。

Got you. Okay. That is helpful. I think everything else has been asked and answered, so appreciate the time.

抓到你了。好的。那很有幫助。我想其他問題都已經問過了，也都得到了解答，所以感謝您抽出時間。

Chris McGratty, KBW.

克里斯·麥格拉蒂，KBW。

Great, thanks. Slide 13 on the expense guide. Is the starting point dollars like just GAAP ex tax credit? Or are there adjustments for kind of one-off that happened during the year, I want to get the right starting point.

太好了，謝謝。費用指南第 13 頁。起始金額是否與 GAAP 扣除稅收抵免後的金額相同？或者，對於一年中發生的某些特殊情況，是否有相應的調整？我想找到一個正確的起點。

There was a small amount of FDIC. So I think we're focusing here on the operating noninterest expense line. So if you look at slide 10 of the press release tables, if that number as a base, and that includes the FDIC line. But obviously, we don't expect any FDIC special assessment as we look forward. So that's sort of a baseline for you to focus on.

有少量聯邦存款保險公司（FDIC）的資金。所以我認為我們現在關注的是非利息營運支出項。所以，如果你看一下新聞稿表格的第 10 張投影片，如果以該數字為基準，並且其中包含 FDIC 行。但顯然，展望未來，我們預計不會有任何聯邦存款保險公司（FDIC）的特別評估。所以這可以算是一個你需要注意的基準。

Okay. And then within that, could you help on the tax amortization that's backed in or baked into the guide?

好的。此外，您能否幫忙解釋指南中涉及的稅務攤銷問題？

So actually, the tax amortization is the next line below that. So that's why we focus on the operating noninterest expense growth.

實際上，稅收攤銷是下一行。所以這就是為什麼我們關注非利息支出營運成長的原因。

But for 2025, I'm just trying to get the right amortization in the adjusted line?

但對於 2025 年，我只是想在調整後的帳目中得到正確的攤銷額？

It will probably be closer to what -- we didn't specifically guide on that. I mean our tax rate will be in that 21% to 23% range, but we don't think tax amortization is poised to move or be as volatile as an invest. That's part of why we adopted the PAM accounting we adopted, and we think it will be a more normalized number in the range of this what we did in 2024. It will all be depending on the actual investment we make, but it will offset in the tax line.

它可能更接近——我們沒有具體說明這一點。我的意思是，我們的稅率將在 21% 到 23% 之間，但我們認為稅收攤銷不會像投資那樣波動或變化。這就是我們採用 PAM 會計方法的部分原因，我們認為到 2024 年，這個數字將更加規範化，與我們所做的數字大致相同。這一切都取決於我們實際的投資金額，但會在稅收方面起到抵消作用。

Understood. Okay. Great. And then, Dominic, on the kind of capital use commentary. Are there any businesses or noninterest income opportunities that you would consider to diversify the revenues and deploy some capital?

明白了。好的。偉大的。然後，Dominic，關於資本使用類型的評論。您認為有哪些企業或非利息收入機會可以考慮用於實現收入多元化和資本配置？

Anything that we will consider, but it's a high bar. The reason is that we've done pretty well for the -- in fact, in the last 10 years, we haven't made an acquisition. And so the way I look at it is there anything that we wanted to do in terms of inorganic growth related to a certain extent, while we immediately can have a positive impact to the balance sheet and possibly even P&L, the challenge is a distraction from our focus of running our business. We've done really well at what we're doing, just focusing on growing organically. So that's why I say it's a high bar.

任何條件我們都會考慮，但標準很高。原因是我們做得相當不錯——事實上，在過去的 10 年裡，我們沒有進行任何收購。因此，我的看法是，我們是否想在非內生成長方面做一些事情，雖然這在某種程度上可以立即對資產負債表甚至損益表產生積極影響，但挑戰在於這會分散我們專注於經營業務的注意力。我們一直專注於有機成長，在我們所做的事情上做得非常出色。所以這就是為什麼我說這是一個很高的標準。

It would not be easy to find this potential acquisition. I think it's a lot easier for institutions who find acquisition target when they have no ability to grow, no ability to generate business. And then the easiest thing to do is go buy somebody and then cut all the costs.

要找到這家潛在的收購對象並不容易。我認為，對於那些沒有發展能力、沒有業務創造能力的機構來說，找到收購目標要容易得多。最簡單的辦法就是買下別人，然後再削減所有成本。

So for us, that's not what we're good at. We're good at actually growing business and relationship banking. So in that standpoint, that's what the high bar makes it not what I call highly likely that we'll find the opportunity. But obviously, we're out there keeping our eyes open.

所以對我們來說，這不是我們擅長的領域。我們擅長發展業務和建立客戶關係。所以從這個角度來看，正是因為門檻高，我們才不太可能找到這樣的機會。但很顯然，我們一直在密切關注事態發展。

Great. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝。

Gary Tenner, D.A. Davidson.

蓋瑞‧坦納，D.A.戴維森。

Thanks. Good afternoon. I wanted to ask about how you're thinking about just overall balance sheet growth as your -- you gave the guide on loan growth, but you've got at least a part of FHLB outstanding that I think matures here in the first quarter and the Lunar New Year special. So how are you thinking about utilizing funds, if we're able to have a pretty good growth quarter on the deposit side. Would you use some to pay down the FHLB or would you plan to roll FHLB?

謝謝。午安.我想問一下您是如何看待整體資產負債表增長的——您給出了貸款增長的指導，但您至少有一部分聯邦住房貸款銀行（FHLB）的未償貸款，我認為這些貸款將在第一季度到期，還有農曆新年特別貸款。如果存款方面能夠實現相當不錯的成長，那麼您打算如何利用資金呢？你會用一部分錢來償還聯邦住房貸款（FHLB）嗎？還是打算繼續展期償還FHLB？

So I think what we're -- I think we think about the balance sheet growth as the desired end state of being here always to support our customers, first and foremost, with whatever their borrowing needs may be and to always have the liquidity and the funding to make that readily available.

所以我認為我們——我認為我們認為資產負債表的增長是理想的最終狀態，即始終在這裡支持我們的客戶，首先也是最重要的，滿足他們的任何借貸需求，並始終擁有流動性和資金，以便隨時提供這些資金。

Second, we look at opportunistically continuing to manage the investment liquidity levels. We think those are pretty strong right now. So that's not the incremental thrust at the moment, but we'll continue to evaluate that with changing market conditions. And then, yeah, to pay down our other higher cost borrowings or other higher cost deposits within our portfolio.

其次，我們將考慮繼續伺機管理投資流動性水準。我們認為這些股票目前表現相當強勁。所以目前這並不是我們推進的重點，但我們會根據不斷變化的市場狀況繼續評估這一點。然後，是的，用來償還我們投資組合中其他成本較高的借款或其他成本較高的存款。

And so as we sit here today, we're optimistic that we'll get good traction on the Lunar CD special. And if that produces additional excess spending beyond our borrowing growth, we'll certainly be looking at how best to deploy that.

所以，今天我們坐在這裡，樂觀地認為月球 CD 特輯會取得良好的市場迴響。如果這導致借貸成長之外的額外支出，我們肯定會考慮如何最好地利用這些資金。

Okay. And is there -- how much of that -- of the floating part of the FHLB matures in the first quarter?

好的。FHLB浮動利率貸款中有多少會在第一季到期？

There's $1 billion that comes due later in the quarter, and we'll have the opportunity to see how much we garner from the CD program as we evaluate how we fund, pay down or roll that.

本季稍後將有 10 億美元到期，我們將有機會看看我們能從 CD 計劃中獲得多少收益，同時評估我們如何為這筆款項提供資金、償還或展期。

Perfect. Thank you.

完美的。謝謝。

We may have timed the maturities to make sure we have that flexibility around the time of our expected CD campaigns.

我們可能已經安排好了到期時間，以確保我們在預期 CD 活動期間擁有足夠的靈活性。

This will conclude our question-and-answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Dominic Ng for any closing remarks.

我們的問答環節到此結束。我謹將會議交還給 Dominic Ng，請他作總結發言。

Well, I'd just like to thank everyone for joining our call today. And we are looking forward to speaking with you in April. Thank you.

我首先要感謝各位今天參加我們的電話會議。我們期待在四月與您會面。謝謝。

The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

會議已經結束。感謝各位參加今天的報告會。您現在可以斷開連線了。