East West Bancorp Inc (EWBC) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon, and welcome to the East West Bancorp's Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2023 Earnings Call. (Operator Instructions) Please note this event is being recorded.

下午好，歡迎參加東西銀行 2023 年第四季和全年收益電話會議。 （操作員說明）請注意此事件正在被記錄。

I would now like to turn the conference over to Adrienne Atkinson, Director of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

我現在想將會議交給投資者關係總監艾德麗安·阿特金森 (Adrienne Atkinson)。請繼續。

Thank you, operator. Good afternoon, and thank you, everyone, for joining us to review East West Bancorp's Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2023 Financial Results. With me are Dominic Ng, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer; Christopher Del Moral-Niles, Chief Financial Officer; and Irene Oh, Chief Risk Officer. This call is being recorded and will be available for replay on our Investor Relations website.

謝謝你，接線生。下午好，感謝大家與我們一起回顧華美銀行 2023 年第四季和全年財務表現。與我同行的還有董事長兼執行長吳多才 (Dominic Ng)； Christopher Del Moral-Niles，財務長；和首席風險長 Irene Oh。本次電話會議正在錄音，並將在我們的投資者關係網站上重播。

The slide deck referenced during this call is available on our Investor Relations site. Management may make projections or other forward-looking statements, which may differ materially from the actual results due to a number of risks and uncertainties. Management may discuss non-GAAP financial measures. For a more detailed description of the risk factors and the reconciliation of GAAP to non-GAAP financial measures, please refer to our filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including the Form 8-K filed today.

本次電話會議中引用的幻燈片可在我們的投資者關係網站上找到。管理階層可能會做出預測或其他前瞻性陳述，由於許多風險和不確定性，這些預測或其他前瞻性陳述可能與實際結果有重大差異。管理階層可以討論非公認會計準則財務措施。有關風險因素以及 GAAP 與非 GAAP 財務指標的更詳細說明，請參閱我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件，包括今天提交的 8-K 表格。

I will now turn the call over to Dominic.

我現在將把電話轉給多米尼克。

Thank you, Adrienne. Good afternoon, and thank you, everyone, for joining us for our year-end earnings call. 2023 was another record-breaking year for East West. Our highlights include new record levels for revenue, net interest income, net income, loans and deposits. Our 2023 results speak to the resilience of our business model, the loyalty of our customers and the persistence of our bankers. Despite the turbulence in the earlier half of the year, we grew customer deposits by $1 billion in each of the past 2 quarters. We did this by adding 40,000 new deposit accounts over the past year, both consumer and commercial, and driving a more granular deposit base.

謝謝你，艾德麗安。下午好，謝謝大家參加我們的年終財報電話會議。 2023 年對 East West 來說又是打破紀錄的一年。我們的亮點包括收入、淨利息收入、淨利潤、貸款和存款的新紀錄水平。我們 2023 年的業績證明了我們業務模式的彈性、客戶的忠誠度和銀行家的堅持。儘管上半年出現動盪，但過去兩季我們的客戶存款均成長了 10 億美元。為此，我們在過去一年新增了 40,000 個消費者和商業存款帳戶，並推動存款基礎更加細化。

Our loan growth was driven by our differentiated residential mortgage product and the strength of our commercial lending relationships. Asset quality remains strong, and we continue to proactively manage our credit risk. Our 2023 annual net charge-offs to average loans were just 9 basis points and nonperforming assets to total asset ratio was just 16 basis points at year-end. We continue to deliver industry-leading efficiency supported by our simple, proven business model and effective branch network. Our efforts drove a 20% adjusted return on average tangible common equity and a 1.7% return on average assets in 2023.

我們的貸款成長是由我們差異化的住宅抵押貸款產品和強大的商業貸款關係所推動的。資產品質依然強勁，我們持續積極管理信用風險。 2023 年，我們的年度平均貸款淨沖銷僅 9 個基點，年底不良資產與總資產的比率僅 16 個基點。在簡單、經過驗證的業務模式和有效的分公司網路的支持下，我們繼續提供業界領先的效率。我們的努力使得 2023 年調整後的平均有形普通股報酬率達到 20%，平均資產報酬率達到 1.7%。

Looking forward, we remain focused on driving core deposit growth, and we are pleased by the early progress on continued net new customers and balances as we begin 2024. We have started the new year from a position of strength given our earnings stability, solid credit performance and strong capital levels. I am pleased to announce that our Board of Directors has approved a 15% increase to the quarterly common stock dividend to $0.55 per share.

展望未來，我們仍然專注於推動核心存款成長，我們對2024 年開始時持續淨新客戶和餘額方面取得的早期進展感到高興。鑑於我們的盈利穩定、信用可靠，我們在新的一年中處於強勢地位業績和雄厚的資本水準。我很高興地宣布，我們的董事會已批准將季度普通股股息增加 15%，達到每股 0.55 美元。

I will now turn the call over to Chris to provide more details on our fourth quarter financial performance. Chris?

我現在將把電話轉給克里斯，以提供有關我們第四季度財務業績的更多詳細資訊。克里斯？

Thank you, Dominic. Our fourth quarter 2023 net income was $239 million. Excluding the onetime FDIC charge and securities gains, our Q4 adjusted EPS was $2.02.

謝謝你，多米尼克。我們 2023 年第四季的淨利為 2.39 億美元。不包括一次性 FDIC 費用和證券收益，我們第四季度調整後每股收益為 2.02 美元。

Turning to loans on Slide 4. East West grew total average loans by 9% for the year, reflecting the strength and scale of our core residential mortgage and commercial real estate platforms. We note that over the last 5 years, East West has grown loans at a very healthy 10% compounded annual growth rate. Demand for residential mortgage remained quite strong despite the generally rising rate environment, we originated $3.5 billion of low-risk, low-LTV mortgages in 2023. And while we expect growth to moderate from Q4's trend, our pipelines remain resilient going into the first quarter of '24.

轉向幻燈片 4 上的貸款。 East West 今年的平均貸款總額增加了 9%，反映了我們核心住宅抵押貸款和商業房地產平台的實力和規模。我們注意到，在過去 5 年裡，East West 的貸款以 10% 的複合年增長率成長。儘管利率普遍上升，但住宅抵押貸款的需求仍然相當強勁，我們在2023 年發放了35 億美元的低風險、低LTV 抵押貸款。雖然我們預計成長將較第四季度的趨勢有所放緩，但我們的貸款管道在進入第一季時仍保持彈性'24.

Average CRE balances grew in '23 as we continue to work with long-standing relationship clients. We saw solid increases in both multifamily and industrial property lending while office loans declined. Looking at the Q4 end-of-period balances, our fourth quarter growth was driven by an uptick in C&I utilization and continued solid residential mortgage originations. Looking forward, assuming the economy moderates into a soft landing, we expect overall loan demand to moderate as well. We expect our growth will continue to be driven by strong residential mortgage activity and continued growth in C&I lending, leading to a further and better diversified loan portfolio.

隨著我們繼續與長期合作關係客戶合作，23 年商業房地產平均餘額有所增長。我們看到多戶住宅和工業地產貸款均穩定成長，而辦公室貸款則有所下降。從第四季度期末餘額來看，我們第四季度的成長是由商業和工業利用率的上升以及持續穩定的住宅抵押貸款發放所推動的。展望未來，假設經濟溫和軟著陸，我們預期整體貸款需求也會放緩。我們預計，強勁的住宅抵押貸款活動和工商業貸款的持續成長將繼續推動我們的成長，使貸款組合進一步更加多元化。

Moving on to deposits. We note that over the last 5 years, East West has grown deposits faster than loans overall. Despite volatility in the first half of '23, East West continued to grow average deposits year-over-year. We continue to show deposit momentum in the fourth quarter by adding another $1 billion in deposit balances. Our growth reflects the focus and dedication of our bankers and the loyalty and resilience of our broad-based customers. Looking forward, we will continue to focus on adding granular low-cost consumer and business deposits while continuing to reduce our use of noncore brokered or wholesale funding.

轉向存款。我們注意到，在過去 5 年裡，East West 的存款成長速度快於整體貸款成長速度。儘管 23 年上半年出現波動，但 East West 的平均存款仍持續成長。第四季我們繼續展現存款勢頭，存款餘額又增加了 10 億美元。我們的成長反映了我們銀行家的專注和奉獻以及我們廣泛客戶的忠誠度和韌性。展望未來，我們將繼續專注於增加細粒度的低成本消費者和企業存款，同時繼續減少對非核心經紀或批發資金的使用。

Turning to net interest income and margin on Slide 6. Q4 dollar net interest income increased by 1% to $575 million from the third quarter. We held our net interest margin stable at 3.48%. While our $4.25 billion of cash flow hedges continue to be a net drag on NII in Q4, on a mark-to-market basis, some of these forward-looking hedges are now in the money, and expected rate cuts will only make that better. While these hedges cost us approximately $25 million of NII in the fourth quarter, they are expected to provide valuable earnings protection as rates decline. Given the current forward curve and consensus economic outlook, we expect NIM to decline by 3 to 5 basis points in Q1 as deposit costs continue to normalize and new asset yields continue to flatten out.

轉向幻燈片 6 上的淨利息收入和利潤率。第四季美元淨利息收入較第三季成長 1%，達到 5.75 億美元。我們將淨利差穩定在 3.48%。雖然我們 42.5 億美元的現金流對沖繼續對第四季度的 NII 構成淨拖累，但按市值計算，其中一些前瞻性對沖現在已經實現了盈利，預期的降息只會讓情況變得更好。雖然這些對沖在第四季度使我們損失了約 2500 萬美元的 NII，但隨著利率下降，預計它們將提供寶貴的收益保護。鑑於當前的遠期曲線和共識的經濟前景，隨著存款成本繼續正常化和新資產收益率繼續趨於平穩，我們預計第一季淨利差將下降 3 至 5 個基點。

We then expect our margin to be further compressed in Q2 and Q3 as a result of the expected rates moving lower. NIM likely troughed in Q3, and we expect it to begin to rebound thereafter as assets grow expected lower funding costs kick in and the expected positive cash flow benefits from our balance sheet hedges begin to offset lower asset yields.

由於預期利率下降，我們預計第二季和第三季的利潤率將進一步壓縮。淨利差可能在第三季觸底，我們預期此後隨著資產成長、預期融資成本下降以及我們資產負債表對沖帶來的預期正現金流效益開始抵銷較低的資產收益率，淨利差將開始反彈。

Speaking of asset yields, let's turn to Slide 7. Our expectation for margin resilience is also supported by the enhanced levels of fixed rate assets in our portfolio at year-end. Fixed rate and hybrid loans in their fixed period represented 42% of our loan portfolio at year-end '23 versus 35% at the beginning of 2022.

說到資產收益率，讓我們轉向投影片 7。年底我們投資組合中固定利率資產水準的提高也支持了我們對利潤率彈性的預期。截至 23 年底，固定利率和固定期限混合貸款占我們貸款組合的 42%，而 2022 年初為 35%。

Turning to funding costs on Slide 8. Our average cost of deposits for the fourth quarter was 260 basis points, up 17 basis points from the third quarter. As Dominic previously mentioned, we remain laser-focused on driving core deposit growth and growing net new customers and balances as we begin 2024. Looking forward, we are optimistic about our operational ability to rapidly reprice non-time deposits in a falling rate environment.

轉向投影片 8 上的融資成本。第四季我們的平均存款成本為 260 個基點，比第三季上升 17 個基點。正如多米尼克之前提到的，從2024 年開始，我們仍然專注於推動核心存款增長以及淨新客戶和餘額的增長。展望未來，我們對我們在利率下降的環境下快速重新定價非定期存款的運營能力感到樂觀。

Moving on to fees and noninterest income. East West has grown fee income at a 10% annual rate over the past 5 years. 2023 fee income growth reflect the continuing strength in our customer derivative business' lending fees and foreign exchange income. We note that Q4 saw growth in every fee categories.

接下來是費用和非利息收入。過去 5 年，East West 的費用收入以每年 10% 的速度成長。 2023 年費用收入的成長反映了我們客戶衍生性商品業務的借貸費用和外匯收入的持續強勁。我們注意到，第四季度每個費用類別均出現成長。

Moving on to Slide 10. Total annual adjusted noninterest expense trends are on the left. Adjusted noninterest expense has grown 7% annually over the past 4 years compared with our 11% annual revenue growth. East West consistently delivers industry-leading efficiency. The fourth quarter adjusted efficiency ratio was 33.1% compared with 31.2% in the prior quarter. Adjusted noninterest expense was $215 million in the fourth quarter. Comp and benefits did increase $8 million, reflecting higher commissions and incentive growth; and other operating expenses did increase $6 million, reflecting some increased legal expense, realized credit card fraud losses and some advertising expense.

繼續看投影片 10。年度調整後非利息支出總額趨勢在左邊。在過去 4 年中，調整後的非利息支出每年增長 7%，而我們的年收入成長率為 11%。 East West 始終如一地提供業界領先的效率。第四季調整後效率為33.1%，上一季為31.2%。第四季調整後的非利息支出為 2.15 億美元。薪資和福利確實增加了 800 萬美元，反映出佣金和激勵措施的成長；其他營運費用確實增加了 600 萬美元，反映出法律費用、信用卡詐欺損失和廣告費用的增加。

Looking forward, we expect adjusted noninterest expense to increase in the range of 6% to 8% year-over-year, driven primarily by comp and benefits and partially offset by lower deposit account expense as earnings credit and related rate-driven expense pressure begins to ease in a lower rate environment.

展望未來，我們預期調整後的非利息支出將年增6% 至8%，這主要是由薪資和福利推動的，但隨著收益信貸和相關利率驅動的支出壓力開始出現，存款帳戶支出的下降部分抵銷了調整後的非利息支出的成長。以緩解較低利率環境中的壓力。

I will now turn the call over to Irene for a discussion of our asset quality and capital position. Irene?

我現在將電話轉給艾琳，討論我們的資產品質和資本狀況。艾琳？

Thank you, Chris, and good afternoon to all on the call. As you can see on Slide 11, the asset quality of our portfolio remains broadly stable. During the fourth quarter, we recorded net charge-offs of $20 million or 15 basis points, a 1 basis point increase from the third quarter. Quarter-over-quarter, nonperforming assets as of December 31 increased modestly by 1 basis point to 16 basis points of total assets. The criticized loan ratio decreased 14 basis points from September 30 to 1.87% of loans held for investment. The special mentioned loans ratio decreased 18 basis points quarter-over-quarter to 77 basis points of total loans held for investment as of December 31, and the classified loans ratio increased 4 basis points to 1.10% as credit continues to normalize. We remain vigilant and proactive in managing our credit risk. We recorded a provision for credit losses of $37 million in the fourth quarter compared with $42 million for the third quarter.

謝謝你，克里斯，祝所有與會人員下午好。正如您在投影片 11 中看到的，我們投資組合的資產品質基本上保持穩定。第四季度，我們錄得淨沖銷 2,000 萬美元，即 15 個基點，比第三季增加 1 個基點。截至 12 月 31 日，不良資產環比小幅上升 1 個基點，佔總資產的 16 個基點。受批評的貸款比率較9月30日下降14個基點至投資貸款的1.87%。截至 12 月 31 日，關注類貸款比率環比下降 18 個基點，佔投資性貸款總額的 77 個基點；隨著信貸持續正常化，分類貸款比率上升 4 個基點，至 1.10%。我們在管理信用風險方面保持警惕和積極主動。我們第四季的信貸損失準備金為 3,700 萬美元，而第三季為 4,200 萬美元。

Turning to Slide 12. The allowance for loan losses increased $13 million quarter-over-quarter, primarily reflecting net loan growth. The allowance for C&I loans increased $9 million, the allowance for commercial real estate loans increased $4 million, and the allowance for resi mortgage and consumer remained unchanged from the prior quarter. The reserve for office loans increased by $2 million to 243 basis points of total office loans. We believe we are adequately reserved for the content of our loan portfolio given the current economic outlook.

轉向投影片 12。貸款損失準備金環比增加 1,300 萬美元，主要反映淨貸款成長。工商業貸款準備金增加 900 萬美元，商業房地產貸款準備金增加 400 萬美元，房地產抵押貸款和消費者準備金與上一季持平。辦公室貸款準備金增加了 200 萬美元，達到辦公室貸款總額的 243 個基點。我們相信，鑑於當前的經濟前景，我們對貸款組合的內容有足夠的保留。

Turning to Slide 13. As shown on this slide, all of our capital ratios expanded quarter-over-quarter due to the strength of our earnings. East West CET1 capital ratio stands at a robust 13.3%, while the tangible common equity ratio grew 34 basis points to 9.37%. These capital levels place us among the most well capitalized banks in the industry. East West's Board of Directors has declared first quarter 2024 dividends for the company's common stock, resulting in a 15% increase in the dividend. The quarterly common stock dividend of $0.55 per share will be payable on February 15, 2024, to stockholders of record on February 2, 2024. East West repurchased 1.5 million shares of common stock during the fourth quarter of 2023 for $82 million. We currently have $172 million of repurchase authorization that remains available for future buybacks.

轉向投影片 13。如這張投影片所示，由於我們的獲利強勁，我們所有的資本比率都逐季擴大。 East West CET1 資本適足率為 13.3%，有形普通股權益比率成長 34 個基點至 9.37%。這些資本水準使我們躋身業內資本最雄厚的銀行之列。 East West 董事會已宣佈公司普通股 2024 年第一季股息，股息增加 15%。每股0.55 美元的季度普通股股利將於2024 年2 月15 日支付給2024 年2 月2 日登記在冊的股東。East West 在2023 年第四季以8,200 萬美元回購了150 萬股普通股。我們目前擁有 1.72 億美元的回購授權，可供未來回購。

I'll now turn it over to Chris to share our outlook for the 2024 full year.

現在我將把它交給 Chris 來分享我們對 2024 年全年的展望。

Thank you, Irene. To summarize, as stated on Slide 14, our full year 2024 outlook assumes a softening economy with a more modest growth profile in '23 and takes into consideration the year-end forward curve with cuts assumed to begin in the second quarter. We expect end of period loan growth in this environment to be in the range of 3% to 5%, driven by moderating demand but buoyed by a relative strength in our residential mortgage and C&I lending activity.

謝謝你，艾琳。總而言之，如幻燈片 14 所示，我們的 2024 年全年展望假設經濟疲軟，23 年增長更為溫和，並考慮到年底遠期曲線，假設從第二季度開始削減。我們預計，在這種環境下，期末貸款成長將在 3% 至 5% 之間，這是由需求放緩推動的，但也受到住宅抵押貸款和工商業貸款活動相對強勁的推動。

We expect net interest income to decline in the range of 4% to 6%, driven by the expected rate cuts. Adjusted noninterest expense is expected to increase in the range of 6% to 8%, driven again primarily by comp and benefits and partially offset by lower deposit related expenses.

我們預計，在降息預期的推動下，淨利息收入將下降4%至6%。調整後的非利息費用預計將增加 6% 至 8%，這主要是由薪資和福利推動的，但部分被存款相關費用的下降所抵消。

First quarter net charge-off levels are expected to be in line with the fourth quarter of '23, with subsequent quarters increasing modestly as we expect full year net charge-offs will fall within the range of 15 to 25 basis points. We expect our effective tax rate will increase modestly for the full year.

第一季淨沖銷水準預計將與 2023 年第四季持平，隨後幾季將小幅成長，因為我們預計全年淨沖銷將下降 15 至 25 個基點。我們預計全年有效稅率將小幅上升。

With that recap, now let me turn the call back to Dominic for his closing remarks.

回顧完這一點，現在讓我把電話轉回給多明尼克，讓他作總結發言。

Thank you, Chris. Let's go to Slide 15. As I look back, I'm very proud of our strong performance in 2023 marked by 18% growth in tangible book value per share year-over-year and by recognition from S&P Global, Forbes and Bank Director as a top-performing American bank. I also would like to thank our associates for their unwavering dedication to our clients.

謝謝你，克里斯。讓我們看幻燈片 15。回顧過去，我對 2023 年的強勁表現感到非常自豪，每股有形賬面價值同比增長 18%，並獲得標準普爾全球、福布斯和銀行董事的認可一家表現最好的美國銀行。我還要感謝我們的同事對客戶堅定不移的奉獻。

As Chris mentioned, economists are projecting a softening economy and a declining rate environment in 2024. But at East West, our goals remain the same, which are to help our commercial clients thrive, to meet the savings and investment needs of our branch customers and to operate with strong capital and prudent risk management, allowing us to deliver top-tier returns to our shareholders in any environment.

正如Chris 所提到的，經濟學家預計2024 年經濟將疲軟，利率環境將下降。但在East West，我們的目標保持不變，即幫助我們的商業客戶蓬勃發展，滿足我們分行客戶的儲蓄和投資需求，以及憑藉雄厚的資本和審慎的風險管理進行運營，使我們能夠在任何環境下為股東帶來一流的回報。

I will now open the call to questions. Operator?

我現在開始提問。操作員？

(Operator Instructions) The first question comes from Ebrahim H. Poonawala with Bank of America.

（操作員說明）第一個問題來自美國銀行的 Ebrahim H. Poonawala。

Thank you, and good afternoon. Maybe first question for Chris, just around the NII outlook and the sensitivity to the rate cuts. So it seems like the down 4% to 6% assumes the 6 rate cuts that were there in the forward curve. Give us a sense of what if we get zero rate cuts or just get 3 rate cuts, should we assume proportionately NII holds up a lot better. And if we don't get rate cuts in through until maybe even May, are you doing -- taking further actions to kind of neutralizing the balance sheet?

謝謝你，下午好。也許克里斯的第一個問題是關於國家資訊基礎設施前景和對降息的敏感性。因此，4% 至 6% 的下降似乎是假設遠期曲線中存在 6 次降息。讓我們了解一下，如果我們降息為零，或者只是降息 3 次，我們是否應該假設 NII 按比例保持得更好。如果我們可能要到五月才能降息，那麼您是否正在採取進一步行動來中和資產負債表？

Yes, yes and yes. So yes, if there are not as many rate cuts as were projected at year-end, NII will do better. Yes, if rate cuts start later, NII will do better. And yes, we are proactively taking a number of steps to make sure we manage our sensitivity to rates. But in particular, our focus on deposits is one that we think will yield us some benefit as we move through the course of the year.

是的，是的，是的。因此，是的，如果年底降息次數沒有預期那麼多，NII 會表現得更好。是的，如果降息晚點開始，NII 會表現得更好。是的，我們正在積極採取一系列措施，以確保我們管理對利率的敏感度。但特別是，我們認為，我們對存款的關注將為我們在今年的進程中帶來一些好處。

Noted. And I guess maybe another question, Dominic, for you. So you managed through last year very strong results. You have solid capital levels. It feels like there's a fair amount of disruption just across the banking sector maybe in terms of people moving, loan portfolios, maybe banks up for sale. Just give us a sense in terms of when you're looking at 2024, how do you see the opportunity set in terms of actually putting investment dollars to work and capitalizing on the disruption out there?

著名的。我想也許還有一個問題想問你，多明尼克。所以你們去年取得了非常強勁的業績。您擁有雄厚的資本水準。感覺整個銀行業都出現了相當大的混亂，可能是在人員流動、貸款組合、可能是銀行出售方面。請讓我們了解一下，當您展望 2024 年時，您如何看待實際投入投資並利用現有顛覆性的機會？

Well, we actually continue to look into the market and see to a certain extent, obviously, we all saw what happened last year. That a lot of our larger peers, well, two of them are gone and then some of the other peers are having some financial difficulty or transitioning and whatnot. And so from that -- from a competitive landscape, I think it is marginally better for East West Bank. But we have always been prudent and the reason we didn't get into trouble is because we don't try to go all out in any one particular direction. We're always trying to look at making sure that we have a diversified portfolio.

嗯，我們實際上繼續研究市場，在某種程度上看到，顯然，我們都看到了去年發生的事情。我們的許多較大的同行，其中兩個已經離開了，然後其他一些同行遇到了一些財務困難或轉型等等。因此，從競爭格局來看，我認為華美銀行的情況要好一些。但我們一直很謹慎，之所以沒有陷入困境，是因為我們不會在某一特定方向上全力以赴。我們一直在努力確保我們擁有多元化的投資組合。

So in terms of recruiting talents and so forth, we are very selective. We're trying to make sure that there are talents out there that have the right mindset, that fit into the East West culture and also they are in the kind of like business that fit into our sweet spot, and then we will bring them over. And we'll continue to be out there recruiting and looking for the right talents to join us and together with our own associates who continue to grow.

所以在招募人才等等方面，我們都是非常挑剔的。我們正在努力確保那裡的人才擁有正確的心態，適合東西方文化，而且他們所處的行業也適合我們的最佳位置，然後我們會將他們帶過來。我們將繼續招募和尋找合適的人才加入我們，並與我們不斷成長的員工一起。

And so we feel that 2024, we cannot predict exactly what the economy is going to be like, but we do know what East West can do, which is that our team will find a way to continue to bring new customers and we'll be able to continue to help support our existing customers. And with that, we'll be able to grow deposits and we'll be able to grow loans and also have meaningful diversified fee income. And that's the plan.

所以我們覺得到 2024 年，我們無法準確預測經濟會是什麼樣子，但我們確實知道 East West 能做什麼，那就是我們的團隊會找到一種方法來繼續帶來新客戶，我們會能夠繼續幫助支持我們現有的客戶。這樣，我們將能夠增加存款，增加貸款，並獲得有意義的多元化費用收入。這就是計劃。

The next question comes from Ben Gerlinger with Citi.

下一個問題來自花旗銀行的 Ben Gerlinger。

Can you speak -- talk about the deposit base assumptions? I guess the forward curve, it is implying a success at year-end. And in the first half, probably it's (inaudible). What are you seeing in the back half of the year and year-end 2024 (inaudible) what would be the deposit for this?

能談談存款基礎假設嗎？我猜遠期曲線，它意味著年底的成功。在上半場，可能是（聽不清楚）。今年下半年和 2024 年底會看到什麼（聽不清楚）為此需要支付多少押金？

So Ben, I think we missed a good portion of your question, but I think your question was broadly around deposit betas and how do we think deposit betas unfold. And so I think there's a couple of thoughts here. The first part is we had a reasonable uptick in deposit beta as rates rose. We would expect to have a reasonable downtick in deposit pricing as rates fall. Specifically, we are expecting our deposit beta to be north of 0.5 on the downtick. And I think that is a 0.5 that we recognize we could be more aggressive on, particularly if rate cuts come sooner or faster.

所以本，我認為我們錯過了你問題的很大一部分，但我認為你的問題主要圍繞存款貝塔值以及我們如何看待存款貝塔值。所以我認為這裡有一些想法。第一部分是，隨著利率上升，我們的存款貝塔值出現了合理的上升。我們預計，隨著利率下降，存款定價將出現合理下降。具體來說，我們預計存款貝塔值在下降時將超過 0.5。我認為我們認識到我們可以更積極地實現 0.5，特別是如果降息來得更快或更快的話。

And we would note that we think there's upside to that level if we can get our arms around the pace of cuts that we expect. And I think that will be Fed path dependent, but I think we're very comfortable that there's upside to that if we can get some clarity on that as we move through the course of the year.

我們要指出的是，如果我們能夠按照我們預期的削減速度進行控制，我們認為這一水平還有上升空間。我認為這將取決於聯準會的路徑，但我認為，如果我們能夠在今年的過程中弄清楚這一點，我們會感到非常滿意，因為這是有好處的。

Mr. Gerlinger, if you could pick up a handset perhaps if you're on a speaker phone, by any chance?

格林格先生，如果您使用免持電話，您是否可以拿起聽筒？

Next question. I was curious from just the net interest expense cut, I know you had to back out a few things due to (inaudible) amortization of tax credit mix (inaudible) but I'm just trying to think the 6% to 8% growth in the noninterest expense number, how should we think about just on that perspective and kind of backing that can do? And is there anything you can do to be a little bit more aggressive (inaudible)?

下一個問題。我對淨利息支出削減感到好奇，我知道由於（聽不清楚）稅收抵免組合的攤銷（聽不清楚），您必須取消一些事情，但我只是想想想 6% 到 8% 的增長非利息支出數字，我們該如何從這個角度來考慮可以做的支援類型？你能做些什麼來變得更有攻擊性（聽不清楚）嗎？

We continue to see 2024 as a year for continued investments in our core businesses and platforms. And so while we recognize that up 6% maybe a higher number than you've heard from some others, we would also suggest that a 33% efficiency ratio is a much better start point than you have from many others. And we think that's the right decision to make for the long-term strength of East West franchise. We would also note that 6% growth off of 33% efficiency is a lot lower than 6% growth, say, off of 65% just for conversations.

我們仍然認為 2024 年是我們核心業務和平台持續投資的一年。因此，雖然我們認識到6% 的成長可能比您從其他一些人那裡聽到的數字要高，但我們也建議33% 的效率比是一個比您從其他許多人那裡聽到的更好的起點。我們認為，為了東西方特許經營權的長期實力，這是正確的決定。我們還注意到，從 33% 的效率得出 6% 的增長遠低於 6% 的增長，例如，僅就對話而言，從 65% 的效率得出的 6% 的增長。

The next question comes from Dave Rochester with Compass Point.

下一個問題來自 Compass Point 的 Dave Rochester。

On your NII guide, what are you guys assuming for deposit growth in that? And what are you baking in for the BTFP maturity that's coming up. And if you can just give like a rough estimate, what are you seeing in terms of what a single cut means from a margin or NII impact at this point, just given the assumptions that you talked about on deposit betas?

在你們的 NII 指南中，你們對這方面的存款成長有何假設？您正在為即將到來的 BTFP 成熟度做哪些準備？如果你可以給出一個粗略的估計，那麼考慮到你談到的關於存款貝塔值的假設，你認為單次削減對利潤或 NII 影響意味著什麼？

Yes. So we fully expect to fund all of our loan growth with core deposit funding. We expect to pay down BTFP over the course of the year. It rolls over in March. We'll pay down some and we'll roll over some, and we'll be exiting the program in all likelihood by year-end. And with regard to sort of the rate sensitivity, it's somewhere in the $1.5 million to $2 million per cut per month is one way to think about it. And I think we're sort of working our way through that, but that's in the right ZIP code.

是的。因此，我們完全希望透過核心存款資金為我們所有的貸款成長提供資金。我們預計在這一年中支付 BTFP。轉眼到了三月。我們將支付一些，我們將延期一些，我們很可能會在年底前退出該計劃。至於某種利率敏感性，一種思考方式是每月每次削減 150 萬至 200 萬美元。我認為我們正在努力解決這個問題，但這是在正確的郵政編碼中。

Great. And then the paydown of the BTFP, is that -- are you expecting to do that with deposits? Or could you fund that with some wholesale funding as well?

偉大的。然後 BTFP 的支付是——您希望用存款來實現嗎？或者你也可以用一些批發資金來資助這個計畫嗎？

Well, at the March date, we'll pay down some. We'll roll over some. We'll have some securities coming due. We'll have a variety of other things. If we have better-than-expected deposit growth, we'll certainly avail ourselves of that better deposit flow. But whatever is left over, we'll just refinance at the end.

好吧，到了三月的時候，我們會還清一些。我們將滾動一些。我們將有一些證券到期。我們還會有各種各樣的其他東西。如果我們的存款成長好於預期，我們肯定會利用更好的存款流。但無論剩下多少，我們最後都會再融資。

Great. And then maybe one last one on the loan pipeline. It sounded like that was looking pretty good. Obviously, you're expecting to grow loans really faster than other larger banks. How are you thinking about the composition of that growth this year? If you can discuss some of the puts and takes on that, that would be great.

偉大的。然後也許是貸款管道中的最後一筆。聽起來好像看起來還不錯。顯然，您預計貸款成長速度比其他大型銀行要快。您如何看待今年成長的組成？如果您能討論一些相關的觀點和觀點，那就太好了。

Yes, the pipeline strength that we're seeing today is primarily on the residential mortgage side, which has been a strong contributor to our growth over the past year, and we expect will be the strongest contributor here certainly over the near term.

是的，我們今天看到的通路實力主要集中在住宅抵押貸款方面，這對我們過去一年的成長做出了強有力的貢獻，我們預計在短期內肯定會成為這裡最強勁的貢獻者。

The next question comes from Gary Tenner with D.A. Davidson.

下一個問題來自 D.A. 的加里·坦納 (Gary Tenner)。戴維森。

Just a quick follow-up question on the loan growth guide. Given the strength of growth in the back half of the year, near 10% annualized, I would have thought would be maybe a little higher than that. Just wondering about kind of the C&I activity in the fourth quarter. Was there any sort of pull forward or drawdowns that were more seasonal in nature that were kind of normalized here early in the first quarter that would impact the point-to-point loan growth outlook?

只是關於貸款成長指南的快速後續問題。考慮到今年下半年的成長勢頭，年化成長率接近 10%，我以為可能會比這個數字高一點。只是想知道第四季的 C&I 活動是什麼樣的。是否存在任何季節性的提前或提款，這些提前或提款在第一季初已經正常化，會影響點對點貸款成長前景？

We did see an uptick in utilization in December. And so that utilization rate, as you may not be surprised, came back a little bit in January. But nonetheless, we would expect C&I to be additionally a contributor to our 2024 growth. But as I just mentioned to Mr. Rochester, I think residential growth will lead the way. And from what we're hearing and seeing from our activity levels on the CRE side, CRE will be muted level of growth net for the year.

我們確實看到 12 月的利用率上升。因此，正如您可能不會感到驚訝的那樣，利用率在一月份有所回升。但儘管如此，我們預計工商業將成為我們 2024 年成長的額外貢獻者。但正如我剛才向羅徹斯特先生提到的，我認為住宅成長將引領潮流。從我們從商業房地產方面的活動水平中聽到和看到的情況來看，商業房地產今年的淨增長水平將很低。

And I'd just add, the C&I utilization at year-end, the trends are not that different, let's say, from the prior year as well. We'll pick up at year-end; it's pretty normal for us.

我想補充一點，年底的工商業利用率，趨勢與前一年沒有太大不同。我們將在年底接貨；這對我們來說很正常。

Yes. Got you. And then just as a follow-up in terms of your guidance. In the past when -- and I hadn't a chance to look back, and I apologize. Had you not guided to also a fee income growth rate? Correct me if I'm wrong if that's not the case. But if it was, curious as to why you did not just cover it.

是的。明白你了。然後作為您的指導的後續行動。過去，我沒有機會回頭看，我很抱歉。你們沒有指導過手續費收入成長率嗎？如果我錯了，請糾正我，如果情況並非如此。但如果是的話，很好奇為什麼你不直接報道它。

I've only been here one quarter, but it wasn't in last quarter's numbers.

我只來了四分之一，但上個季度的數據中沒有這個數字。

The next question comes from Casey Haire with Jefferies.

下一個問題來自 Jefferies 的 Casey Haire。

Maybe first one, just apologies if I missed this. The expense guide, is that ex amortization or does that include that? And if so, what is the tax amortization expense going forward?

也許是第一個，如果我錯過了，請道歉。費用指南是除息攤銷還是包含攤提？如果是這樣，未來的稅務攤銷費用是多少？

It is excluding the onetime items and excluding the tax amortization. So it's what we reported adjusted expense which is net of those things. So it's a clean operating expense level, and we think the claim level comes up a bit.

它不包括一次性項目，也不包括稅收攤銷。這就是我們報告的調整後費用，扣除了這些費用。因此，這是一個乾淨的營運費用水平，我們認為索賠水平有所上升。

Okay. But there will be a tax amortization hitting the P&L, correct?

好的。但損益表中會有稅金攤銷，對嗎？

There will be, yes. And so the tax amortization expense, as you can see from this quarter's numbers can sometimes bounce around from quarter-to-quarter. We haven't given you a specific guide for that, but we're also looking at adopting PAM, which is a new accounting standard for that, which may move the numbers around geographically. So there'll probably be a reduction year-over-year in amortization expense and a slight uptick in the tax rate as a result for those 2 will net out to the bottom line.

會有的，是的。因此，正如您從本季度的數據中看到的那樣，稅收攤銷費用有時可能會逐季度反彈。我們還沒有為此提供具體指南，但我們也在考慮採用 PAM，這是一種新的會計標準，可能會在地理上移動數字。因此，攤銷費用可能會逐年減少，而稅率也會略有上升，因此這兩者的淨額將達到淨利。

Okay. And then just switching to capital, just thoughts on buyback appetite going forward with a still strong 13.3% CET1.

好的。然後轉向資本，只是考慮未來回購意願，CET1 仍然強勁 13.3%。

Well, that's correct. We do have strong capital, and that's something we're very proud of. We do have the remaining authorization. Certainly, that's something that we'll evaluate over the course of the coming months.

嗯，這是正確的。我們確實擁有雄厚的資本，這是我們非常自豪的。我們確實擁有剩餘的授權。當然，我們將在未來幾個月內評估這一點。

The next question comes from Manan Gosalia with Morgan Stanley.

下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的馬南·戈薩利亞。

The NIM trough in the second half of '24 is a little later than what others are suggesting. I hear your comments on the 50% beta on the downside. But are you modeling some sort of lag into your deposit betas on the way down? Because I know you also mentioned that the NIM should rebound in 2025 after the lower funding costs kick in. So I was wondering if there is a little bit of a lag there?

24 年下半年的淨利差低谷比其他人建議的要晚一些。我聽到您對 50% beta 的負面影響的評論。但是，您是否在存款貝塔值下降過程中對某種滯後進行了建模？因為我知道您也提到，在較低的融資成本開始後，NIM 應該會在 2025 年反彈。所以我想知道是否有一點滯後？

There's a little bit of a lag, I would say, driven by the fact that you have to remember, we have a fair amount of CDs on the books. And so those CDs, for example, our Lunar CDs special that's in the market today, will be in place for the next 6 months. So we'll book those here January into February. They'll be with us until July, August. And so there'll be a bit of a lag because of the CDs that we're pricing today versus what will happen. So again, depending on the timing and the pace of rate cuts, we could outperform that. And certainly, as those roll over 6 months from now, we would expect to fully participate in the benefit of the lower funding costs at that point in time.

我想說，有一點滯後，因為你必須記住，我們的書上有相當數量的 CD。因此，這些 CD，例如我們今天在市場上推出的特別版月球 CD，將在接下來的 6 個月內繼續銷售。所以我們會在一月到二月期間在這裡預訂這些。他們會和我們在一起直到七月、八月。因此，由於我們今天定價的 CD 與將要發生的情況相比，會有一點延遲。因此，根據降息的時機和速度，我們的表現可能會更好。當然，隨著從現在開始的 6 個月後的延期，我們預計屆時將充分享受較低融資成本的好處。

Great. And maybe flipping over to credit. There remain a lot of concerns around California commercial real estate. Can you talk about why your book is different and also what you're hearing from borrowers right now and how negotiations are going given that -- given the outlook for lower rates coming up?

偉大的。也許會轉向信貸。加州商業地產仍存在許多擔憂。您能否談談為什麼您的書與眾不同，以及您現在從借款人那裡聽到的情況以及考慮到利率下降的前景，談判進展如何？

Yes. Thanks. That's a great question. And as you can see from what we've reported, when we look at the precise, classified assets, those ratios, the nonperforming loan ratios, the criticized loans are down, nonperforming loans are down. We're pleased with that. As we look at the different categories, office, multifamily, et cetera, within CRE, we're comfortable with the loan grades. We're also very pleased to see that there are not a lot of new problem loans that are coming up.

是的。謝謝。這是一個很好的問題。正如您從我們的報告中看到的那樣，當我們查看精確的分類資產時，這些比率、不良貸款比率、受到批評的貸款都下降了，不良貸款也下降了。我們對此感到滿意。當我們查看商業房地產內的不同類別（辦公大樓、多戶住宅等）時，我們對貸款等級感到滿意。我們也很高興地看到沒有太多新的問題貸款出現。

So overall, these conversations with customers, certainly, there are some that we're working through but it's very manageable at this point, and we're very pleased to see that. All the efforts and work that we went through the last couple of years to shore up borrowers, have them pay down, have them swap, buy caps, those are all things that we see as positive today.

總的來說，與客戶的這些對話當然有一些我們正在處理，但目前非常容易管理，我們很高興看到這一點。過去幾年我們為支持借款人、讓他們還款、讓他們互換、購買上限所做的所有努力和工作，這些都是我們今天認為積極的事情。

Also, as we highlighted in the previous calls before that we don't have that many loans that mature, well, neither in 2023 nor in 2024, with a very small percentage of loans coming due, so we actually really don't have much opportunity to have too many conversations with our customers in terms of dealing with some of the challenge when it comes to refinancing. And keep in mind that we have very low LTV and our portfolio is quite granular. So I think that's the reason why our portfolio so far stands up really well versus some of the other banks.

此外，正如我們在之前的電話會議中所強調的那樣，我們沒有那麼多貸款到期，無論是在 2023 年還是 2024 年，到期貸款的比例非常小，所以我們實際上沒有太多貸款我們有機會與客戶進行太多對話，以應對再融資方面的一些挑戰。請記住，我們的生命週期價值非常低，而且我們的產品組合非常精細。因此，我認為這就是為什麼我們的投資組合迄今為止與其他一些銀行相比表現出色的原因。

Got it. And sorry if I missed it, but did you update what your reserve levels were on CRE office? And if it's still around 2.3% or so as it was last quarter. Can you talk about what keeps you comfortable with that level of reserves?

知道了。如果我錯過了，抱歉，但是您是否更新了 CRE 辦公室的儲備水平？如果仍然是上個季度 2.3% 左右的話。您能談談是什麼讓您對這種儲備水準感到滿意嗎？

It's on Page 12 of the slide deck, and it was 2.43% at year-end, which is up obviously from the 2.3% you cited.

它位於幻燈片第 12 頁，年底為 2.43%，明顯高於您引用的 2.3%。

Got it. And what keeps you...

知道了。是什麼讓你...

Office and all of CRE, we have a reverse process where we go through the portfolios, our RMs, our team leaders, credit supervision, all work together. And I think as we're going through these loan reviews on a regular basis and the cash flows from the clients, the properties, those are all things that help us and the cash quite candidly and the network, many of our borrowers and going towards us are all things that give us comfort.

辦公室和所有 CRE，我們有一個反向流程，我們負責投資組合、客戶經理、團隊領導、信用監管，所有人員一起工作。我認為，當我們定期進行這些貸款審查以及來自客戶、房產的現金流時，這些都是對我們有幫助的東西，坦白地說，現金和網絡，我們的許多藉款人都在走向我們都是能帶給我們安慰的事物。

The next question comes from Matthew Clark with Piper Sandler.

下一個問題來自馬修·克拉克和派珀·桑德勒。

First one just around deposits. If you can speak to your outlook on noninterest bearing down here this quarter. Just your expectation on where that might trough relative to the mix. And then it also looks like your Chinese New Year special is 5.25%, at least on your website. So just thoughts there around kind of growth going forward, is it going to continue to be dominated by CDs?

第一個是關於存款的。您可以在這裡談談您對本季非利息負擔的展望嗎？只是您對相對於組合可能出現的低谷的期望。而你們的農曆新年特價似乎是 5.25%，至少在你們的網站上是如此。那麼，圍繞著未來的成長方式，CD 會繼續佔據主導地位嗎？

In the near term, we expect CD growth certainly in the first quarter to be a significant contributor. Our current Lunar CD special will attract good flows that's been out there for about a week, and the early read on that has been very positive, both on the consumer side and in the private banking client base. So we're encouraged by that, and that will result partly in some of the deposit compression we expect to see in the first quarter. With regard to overall levels of noninterest-bearing demand accounts, we have previously bottomed out in the high 20s. We were at 27%, 28% at sort of a low point. We think we are trending in that level today, and we think that is a relative benchmark from which we will grow from over time.

短期內，我們預期第一季的 CD 成長肯定會做出重要貢獻。我們目前的農曆 CD 特別版將吸引大約一周以來的良好流量，並且早期的閱讀結果非常積極，無論是在消費者方面還是在私人銀行客戶群中。因此，我們對此感到鼓舞，這將部分導致我們預計在第一季看到的存款壓縮。就無息需求帳戶的整體水準而言，我們先前已在20多歲左右觸底。我們當時的比例是 27%、28%，處於一個低點。我們認為我們今天的趨勢是在這個水平上，我們認為這是一個相對基準，隨著時間的推移，我們將在此基礎上成長。

Okay. And then just on some spot rates, it looks like that slide is no longer in there, that detail. Do you have the spot rate on deposits at year-end? And then just a related -- well, on the other side, on the resi mortgage book, you show a rate sheet price for 30-year fix as 7.88%, your portfolio is at 5.49%, which obviously includes hybrids. But can you give us a sense for kind of the spot rate on that book as well? You would think you get some decent lift out of that rate. So two questions within that. Sorry.

好的。然後就一些即期匯率而言，看起來那張投影片不再在那裡，那個細節。你們有年末存款即期利率嗎？然後就是一個相關的——嗯，另一方面，在 Resi 抵押貸款簿上，您顯示 30 年期固定利率的利率表價格為 7.88％，您的投資組合為 5.49％，其中顯然包括混合動力。但您能否讓我們了解一下該書的即期價格？你會認為你從這個利率中得到了一些不錯的提升。其中有兩個問題。對不起。

Yes. So I would say we have started to see, aside from the CDs, the deposit rates basically flattened out and some even start to trend lower. And on the mortgages, yes, it was 7.88% at year-end and it's in the 7.5% zone as we sit here today.

是的。所以我想說，我們已經開始看到，除了存款證之外，存款利率基本上趨於平穩，有些甚至開始走低。至於抵押貸款，是的，年底為 7.88%，而我們今天坐在這裡的時候，它處於 7.5% 的區域。

The spot rate on deposits at year-end was 2.65.

年末存款即期利率為2.65。

The next question comes from Andrew Terrell with Stephens.

下一個問題來自安德魯·特雷爾和史蒂芬斯。

I wanted to circle back to the expense guidance just a little bit. Can you talk maybe, Chris, just about how we should expect the expense run rate to progress throughout the year? It feels like we could see kind of a seasonal bump earlier in the year and then kind of run rate moderation to the back half, especially if we're to get the forward curve to play out and you get that relief from the deposit cost. So any color on kind of the run rate throughout the year on expenses would be helpful.

我想稍微回顧一下費用指南。克里斯，你能談談我們應該如何預期全年費用運行率的進展嗎？感覺我們可能會在今年早些時候看到某種季節性的波動，然後下半年的運行率會有所放緩，特別是如果我們要讓遠期曲線發揮作用，並且您可以從存款成本中得到緩解。因此，全年費用運行率的任何顏色都會有所幫助。

I think you've called that correctly. So we're not going to see a material savings in deposit-related costs in the first quarter, absent some Fed rate action and maybe even a slight delay in the second quarter. So those cost savings to those benefits will really come in the third and fourth quarter. And on the other side, we are going to see an increase in our comp and benefit expense as we move through the first quarter as we go through the normal round of salary adjustments that we do here every year. And so as those numbers roll through, which will pick up at the end of the first quarter, they'll impact expenses a little bit in the first quarter, and then we'll see the offsets coming as rates decline later in the year.

我認為你的稱呼是正確的。因此，如果聯準會不採取一些利率行動，甚至第二季可能略有延遲，我們不會看到第一季存款相關成本大幅節省。因此，這些成本節省帶來的好處將在第三和第四季真正實現。另一方面，隨著第一季的進行，我們將看到我們的薪資和福利費用增加，因為我們每年都會進行一輪正常的薪資調整。因此，隨著這些數字的不斷增加，這些數字將在第一季末回升，它們將對第一季的支出產生一些影響，然後我們將看到隨著今年稍後利率下降而產生的抵消。

Okay. Great. I appreciate it. And if I can also ask just as we think about maybe the opportunity for some of the BTFP reduction that you talked about earlier, can you just remind us the cash flow you'd expect off the bond book coming in 2024?

好的。偉大的。我很感激。如果我也可以問，正如我們考慮您之前談到的 BTFP 削減的機會一樣，您能否提醒我們您預計 2024 年債券帳簿中的現金流量是多少？

Roughly $0.25 billion or $250 million a quarter.

每季約 2.5 億美元或 2.5 億美元。

The next question comes from Brandon King with Truist Securities.

下一個問題來自 Truist Securities 的 Brandon King。

So on the strong C&I loan growth in the quarter, and I didn't see this in the deck, but could you comment on what the utilization levels were? And then just give us your expectations for utilization levels and if we could potentially see maybe a [concessional] uptick if rates come down.

因此，關於本季工商業貸款的強勁增長，我在報告中沒有看到這一點，但您能否評論一下利用率水平？然後告訴我們您對利用率水準的期望，以及如果利率下降，我們是否可能會看到[優惠]上升。

The utilization level was 67% at year-end. I think when we look about -- when we think about uptick, it's a demand-dependent question, though. And we would say in a softening economy, we don't expect demand to run away with that number in 2024.

截至年底，利用率為67%。我認為，當我們考慮上升時，這是一個依賴需求的問題。我們想說，在經濟疲軟的情況下，我們預計 2024 年需求不會超出這個數字。

Okay. And then lastly just on the hedges you had and the SOF you had, how do you currently feel about your position? And are you looking to particularly add more?

好的。最後，就您所擁有的對沖和 SOF 而言，您目前對自己的部位有何看法？您是否希望特別添加更多內容？

We certainly got comfort in the fourth quarter that our forward starting hedges were a good call. As I mentioned in my comments, some of them are already in the money so you don't usually put a trade on expecting to be in the money in the same quarter, but I'm glad we did. And we're looking forward to an outlook that should have those cash flow as we move to the end of the year, which is always a wonderful thing.

我們在第四季度確實得到了安慰，因為我們的前瞻性啟動對沖是一個很好的選擇。正如我在評論中提到的，其中一些已經實現了盈利，因此您通常不會進行交易，期望在同一季度實現盈利，但我很高興我們這樣做了。我們期待在年底時能夠擁有這些現金流的前景，這總是一件美妙的事情。

Got it. So you feel pretty comfortable is a fair way to say it?

知道了。所以你覺得很舒服是個公平的說法嗎？

Absolutely.

絕對地。

The next question comes from Brody Preston with UBS.

下一個問題來自瑞銀集團的布羅迪普雷斯頓。

I just wanted to follow up on a couple of things real quick on the NII. The cash flow hedges, are there any maturities through 2025 on the swaps that we need to be aware of? And then you said earlier that you expected a $0.5 billion deposit beta on the way down. Just wanted to clarify if you -- that was 50% interest-bearing deposit beta on the way down through 4Q '24. Is that a correct interpretation?

我只是想快速跟進 NII 上的一些事情。對於現金流對沖，我們需要注意 2025 年掉期的到期日嗎？然後你之前說過，你預計存款貝塔值會下降 5 億美元。只是想澄清一下，截至 2024 年第四季度，有息存款貝塔係數是否為 50%。這是正確的解釋嗎？

Yes, that will -- we will save at least half of every move in the Fed funds rates that the Fed engineers in the form of reduced deposit costs collectively across our deposit base on the interest-bearing deposits. With regard to the cash flow hedges, there really are no material maturities in 2024. However, two of our earliest or oldest trades will actually mature early in '25, and they are two of the lowest strike points. So it gets better as we move into '25.

是的，那將會——我們將節省至少一半的聯邦基金利率變動，美聯儲以降低我們的計息存款存款基礎上的存款成本的形式來設計這些利率。關於現金流對沖，2024 年確實沒有實質到期。但是，我們最早或最古老的兩項交易實際上將在 25 年提前到期，而且它們是最低執行點中的兩個。因此，隨著我們進入 25 年，情況會變得更好。

Okay. Do you happen to have the dollar amount of those 2 hedges?

好的。您碰巧有這 2 個對沖的美元金額嗎？

Yes, those 2 hedges are both underwater at $2 billion. And so the -- they're currently part of the drag. And as we move through 2024, obviously, as rates decline they incrementally improve as well. But when they go away, there'll be probably a net pickup in 2025 in the first quarter.

是的，這兩項對沖都處於 20 億美元的水下。因此，他們目前是拖累的一部分。顯然，隨著 2024 年的到來，利率下降，利率也會逐步改善。但當它們消失時，2025 年第一季可能會出現淨成長。

Okay. And then, Chris, my last one, I just wanted to clarify on the tax stuff. We've seen a couple of other banks, I think, adopt that this earnings season where I think effectively, the amortization almost went to 0 it's going to show up in a higher tax rate. Just wanted to ask if you guys adopted that treatment, should we expect something similar? And if so, I know that you guys have some lumpy amortization. So would that kind of introduce quarter-to-quarter kind of peaks and valleys in the tax rate itself?

好的。然後，克里斯，我的最後一位，我只是想澄清一下稅務問題。我認為，我們已經看到其他幾家銀行在本財報季採取了這種做法，我認為實際上，攤銷幾乎為零，這將在更高的稅率中體現出來。只是想問你們是否採用了這種治療方法，我們是否應該期待類似的情況？如果是這樣，我知道你們有一些不穩定的攤銷。那麼，這是否會導致稅率本身出現季度性的高峰和低谷呢？

Yes. So our goal in adopting TAM will be to dampen out the volatility that you've seen to introduce a greater level of stability, and it will help us on certain of the tax credits. However, on those tax credits, such as the energy tax credits that we place into service on as project completed basis, that level of volatility from when the projects get placed in service will continue to be with us and will continue to flow as amortization in sort of above the line.

是的。因此，我們採用 TAM 的目標是抑制波動性，從而帶來更高水準的穩定性，這將有助於我們獲得某些稅收抵免。然而，對於這些稅收抵免，例如我們在專案完成後投入使用的能源稅收抵免，專案投入使用時的波動水平將繼續伴隨著我們，並將繼續作為攤銷流動有點在線以上。

So we will not go to 0. It will be dampened and reduced, and it will be both a function of how much we do in the different types of credits and how we moderate that activity as we think about making this a less volatile component of our expense rate moving forward. But our goal is to make it less of a talking point and more of a steady state number for you guys.

因此，我們不會達到0。它將受到抑制和減少，這既取決於我們在不同類型的信貸中做了多少事情，也取決於我們在考慮使其成為波動性較小的組成部分時如何調節該活動。我們的費用率向前推進。但我們的目標是讓它不再是一個話題，而是一個穩定的數字。

The next question comes from Timur Braziler with Wells Fargo.

下一個問題來自富國銀行的 Timur Braziler。

How should we think about the interplay of lower interest rates in your residential product? Is that -- it seems pretty rate-agnostic as demand actually pick up as rates fall. And then just maybe talk more broadly what factors impact that line item most.

我們應該如何考慮住宅產品中較低利率的交互作用？這似乎與利率無關，因為需求實際上隨著利率下降而上升。然後也許更廣泛地討論哪些因素對該行項目影響最大。

Yes. Well, I think it's a relatively unique product that really cater to our core Asian-American customers. And we always think that the rate is not anywhere like sensitive like these traditional Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac type of products. So we feel pretty good about -- even when rates start going down, the rate reduction from our home mortgages would not be going in the same proportionately higher pace like the normal products in the market.

是的。嗯，我認為這是一個相對獨特的產品，真正迎合了我們的核心亞裔美國客戶。我們一直認為利率不像這些傳統的房利美、房地美類型的產品那麼敏感。因此，我們感覺很好，即使利率開始下降，我們的房屋抵押貸款利率下降也不會像市場上的正常產品那樣按比例加快。

Got it. Okay. And then looking at your multifamily portfolio, can you provide the composition geographically there? And more specifically, what portion is in New York City and what portion of that is rent regulated?

知道了。好的。然後看看您的多戶型投資組合，您能提供地理位置上的組合嗎？更具體地說，哪一部分位於紐約市，哪一部分是受到租金管制？

Yes. So we have that -- of our $5 billion multifamily portfolio, the vast majority is in California and also in Southern California, in our backyard where a lot of our presence is. Pasadena, San Gabriel Valley, those areas are the largest sector. In New York, entire state of New York, we have under $300 million, and there's no rent regulated exposure.

是的。因此，在我們 50 億美元的多戶住宅投資組合中，絕大多數位於加州以及南加州，在我們的後院，我們的許多業務都在那裡。帕薩迪納、聖蓋博谷這些地區是最大的部門。在紐約，整個紐約州，我們的資產不到 3 億美元，也沒有租金管制風險。

And we have a follow-up from Ebrahim H. Poonawala with Bank of America.

我們有來自美國銀行的 Ebrahim H. Poonawala 的後續後續追蹤。

Just another question in terms of when we think about deposit liquidity, loan-to-deposit ratio around 93%. Just structurally, do you expect the bank will operate with a 90%-plus loan-to-deposit ratio more or less? Or do you see that as resetting lower? And on the asset side, do you expect East West to run with a larger securities book, more HQLA securities, et cetera, even though you fall well below the $100 billion threshold that the Fed has kind of identified as a dividing line?

另一個問題是，當我們考慮存款流動性時，貸存比約為 93%。從結構上來說，您預期銀行的貸存比會在90%以上嗎？還是你認為這會重置得更低嗎？在資產方面，您是否預計 East West 會擁有更大的證券帳簿、更多的 HQLA 證券等，即使您遠低於聯準會確定的 1000 億美元的門檻？

I think broadly, the answers are yes and yes. Yes, we expect to operate in sort of the lower 90s from a loan-to-deposit ratio even at a comfortable place to be. And over time, yes, it's likely our portfolio will migrate to be more HQLA-like in profile.

我認為總的來說，答案是肯定的。是的，即使在一個舒適的地方，我們預計貸存比也會在 90 左右左右。是的，隨著時間的推移，我們的投資組合很可能會變得更像 HQLA。

This concludes our question-and-answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Dominic Ng for any closing remarks.

我們的問答環節到此結束。我想將會議轉回給 Dominic Ng，讓他發表閉幕詞。

Again, thank you all for joining our call this afternoon. And we are looking forward to speaking to you again in April. Back to you, operator.

再次感謝大家今天下午加入我們的電話會議。我們期待在四月再次與您交談。回到你身邊，操作員。

The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

會議現已結束。感謝您參加今天的演講。您現在可以斷開連線。