Evotec SE (EVO) 2024 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Thank you, Sandra. And good day. Good morning to all of you in the call, the Q1 2024 results call. I trust you have seen the press release this morning. And we are happy to share more details with you today. Before we do that, it's my obligation to familiarize you with the cautionary language as outlined on page 2.

謝謝你，桑德拉。美好的一天。各位早安，2024 年第一季業績電話會議。我相信您已經看到了今天早上的新聞稿。我們今天很高興與您分享更多詳細資訊。在此之前，我有義務讓您熟悉第 2 頁中概述的警告語言。

And with that, I would like to hand over to Mario Polywka, our Interim CEO. Please, Mario, go ahead.

接下來，我想將工作交給我們的臨時執行長 Mario Polywka。馬裡奧，請繼續。

Thank you, Volker. And a very warm welcome to everyone on the call. The entire management team is present in this call with me. And they will do the main update on the developments of the first quarter and on the program we have initiated in resetting and rightsizing Evotec for future profitable growth. So welcome Laetitia, Matthias, Craig, and Cord. I will spend a few moments on recapping the developments in Q1 before handing over to Laetitia and Matthias for the majority of the presentation.

謝謝你，沃爾克。並對大家的到來表示熱烈的歡迎。整個管理團隊都與我一起參加了這次電話會議。他們將對第一季度的發展情況以及我們為未來獲利成長而重新調整和調整 Ev​​otec 規模而啟動的計劃進行主要更新。歡迎 Laetitia、Matthias、Craig 和 Cord。在將大部分演示移交給 Laetitia 和 Matthias 之前，我將花一些時間回顧第一季的進展。

On slide 6, we give a brief summary of our Q1 development. Our business, like many of our peers, continues to operate in a challenging market environment. It is clear that the more differentiated our offering is, the better positioned we will be to grow our business in the future. For clarity, you will see and Laetitia will discuss, we have moved our reporting to Shared R&D and just Evotec Biologics. So in Shared R&D, despite the poor market conditions, we have still closed a number of exciting deals including the AI-powered strategic partnership with Owkin, precision medicine collaboration in cardiology with Bayer, and of course our strategic partnerships with BMS continue to make good progress.

在投影片 6 中，我們簡要地總結了第一季的發展。與許多同行一樣，我們的業務繼續在充滿挑戰的市場環境中運作。顯然，我們的產品越差異化，我們未來的業務發展就越有能力。為了清楚起見，您將看到，Laetitia 將討論，我們已將報告轉移到共享研發部門和 Evotec Biologics。因此，在共享研發方面，儘管市場狀況不佳，我們仍然完成了許多令人興奮的交易，包括與Owkin 的人工智慧策略合作夥伴關係、與拜耳在心臟病學領域的精準醫療合作，當然還有我們與BMS 的策略夥伴關係持續取得良好成果進步。

Despite our 23% revenue decline in Shared R&D in Q1 of 2024 versus Q1 of 2023, which you will all remember was the strongest in our history. On a more positive note, the 70% increase in our discovery sales book points to a recovery in the second half of 2024. Just Evotec Biologics, as Matthias will describe in more detail later, has made good progress especially within the tech partnership with Sandoz and a number of new projects.

儘管與 2023 年第一季相比，我們 2024 年第一季的共享研發收入下降了 23%，但你們都記得這是我們歷史上最強勁的收入。從更積極的角度來看，我們的發現銷售量成長了 70%，這表明 2024 年下半年將出現復甦。正如 Matthias 稍後將更詳細描述的那樣，Just Evotec Biologics 取得了良好進展，特別是在與 Sandoz 的技術合作夥伴關係和許多新專案方面。

The revenue growth over Q1 of 2023 of nearly 400% and the breakeven in EBITDA is a strong signal as to the health and huge potential of this business. You will hear as well from Laetitia that our reset initiative, as described in the April call, is progressing well and remains a key focus to return Evotec to its strong profitability position. Firstly however, it's my honor to pass over to Laetitia to walk you through the Q1 financials. Over to you, Laetitia.

2023 年第一季的營收成長近 400%，且 EBITDA 實現盈虧平衡，這是該業務健康發展和巨大潛力的強烈訊號。您還會從 Laetitia 那裡聽到，我們的重置計劃（如 4 月份的電話會議中所述）進展順利，並且仍然是使 Evotec 恢復強勁盈利能力的關鍵焦點。但首先，我很榮幸請 Laetitia 向您介紹第一季的財務狀況。交給你了，利蒂西亞。

Thank you, Mario. In Q1 2024, we achieved EUR208.8 million revenue, which represents a slight 2% decrease compared to the same period in 2023. While the decrease was driven by a decline in our shared R&D business, minus 23% versus prior year, primarily on the transactional side, we have seen remarkable growth at just Evotec Biologics reaching EUR53.5 million revenue in Q1, as mentioned by Mario, above 380% growth versus same period last year.

謝謝你，馬裡奧。2024 年第一季度，我們實現營收 2.088 億歐元，與 2023 年同期相比略有下降 2%。雖然這一下降是由於我們的共享研發業務下降所致，與前一年相比下降了23%，主要是在交易方面，但正如Mario 所提到的，我們看到Evotec Biologics 第一季營收實現了顯著成長，達到5,350 萬歐元，與去年同期相比成長380%以上。

The growth of just Evotec Biologics was driven by higher revenues due to our collaboration with Sandoz, the Department of Defense and others in what has been an exceptionally strong quarter. The new factory in Toulouse, France is expected to be fully operational in Q1 2025. Our gross margin experience some pressure, declining to 17% from 25% due to our high fixed cost base in Shared R&D and the ramp up of the capacity at Just Evotec Biologics. We remain committed to investing in the future with R&D expenses of EUR16.2 million in Q1. However, we reduced spending from EUR18.5 million in Q1 2023 to EUR16.2 million, as we focus on platforms that are best aligned with the strategic fit and relevance for our partners.

Evotec Biologics 的成長是由我們與山德士、國防部和其他公司在異常強勁的季度中的合作所帶來的收入增加所推動的。位於法國圖盧茲的新工廠預計將於 2025 年第一季全面運作。由於共享研發的固定成本基礎較高以及 Just Evotec Biologics 產能的增加，我們的毛利率面臨一些壓力，從 25% 下降至 17%。我們仍致力於投資未來，第一季的研發費用為 1,620 萬歐元。然而，我們將支出從 2023 年第一季的 1,850 萬歐元減少到 1,620 萬歐元，因為我們專注於最符合合作夥伴策略契合度和相關性的平台。

Adjusted Group EBITDA for Q1 2024 was EUR7.8 million, marking a 73% decline from prior year, mainly driven by higher revenues and low overall cost increase. To sum up, we faced another challenging quarter in Q1 that showed solid underlying performance, however was held back by high fixed cost base and slow market demand on the transactional business, which we are addressing through priority reset over the next quarters. This is the first period in which we report our new segment logic, Shared R&D and Just Evotec Biologics, which reflects the way we manage the business internally, minimizes the inter-segment elimination and gives better transparency to Just Evotec Biologics.

2024 年第一季調整後集團 EBITDA 為 780 萬歐元，較上年下降 73%，主要是由於收入增加和總體成本增長較低。總而言之，我們在第一季面臨另一個充滿挑戰的季度，該季度顯示出堅實的基礎業績，但受到固定成本基礎較高和交易業務市場需求緩慢的阻礙，我們將通過在接下來的幾個季度重置優先順序來解決這個問題。這是我們首次報告新的細分市場邏輯、共享研發和Just Evotec Biologics，這反映了我們內部管理業務的方式，最大限度地減少了細分市場之間的消除，並為Just Evotec Biologics 提供了更好的透明度。

You can find the restated Q1 2023 figures in our Q1 financial statement. As we already discussed the revenue and margin developments of the previous page, I only comment on the SG&A expenses, which totalled EUR45.9 million in Q1, 8% increase compared to last year. The increase was primarily driven by higher IT expenses to upgrade and introduce new system as well as additional people to strengthen the end-to-end global processes and systems. As you can see our balance sheet continues to offer a solid base for our strategic execution. While total asset decreased slightly to EUR2,208.7 million our equity ratio remains around 50%.

您可以在我們第一季的財務報表中找到重述的 2023 年第一季的數據。由於我們已經在上一頁討論了收入和利潤率的發展，因此我僅評論 SG&A 費用，第一季總計 4590 萬歐元，比去年增長 8%。這一成長主要是由於升級和引入新系統的 IT 費用增加以及加強端到端全球流程和系統的額外人員。正如您所看到的，我們的資產負債表繼續為我們的策略執行提供堅實的基礎。雖然總資產略有下降至 22.087 億歐元，但我們的股本比率仍維持在 50% 左右。

Our cash flows were impacted in Q1 by a challenging operational environment and certain exceptional effects such as elevated payables balance at 2023 year-end. This cash outflow combined with our reduced LTM EBITDA has resulted in an increase in our net debt ratio to 2.9. We expect our cash outflow while remaining negative to materially improve over the coming quarters as our operational profitability improves and we complete committed CapEx investments such as just Biologics. So while our net debt ratio may increase slightly in future quarters, we continue to have strong financial flexibility to navigate the current environment with over EUR500 million in liquidity at the end of Q1.

我們的現金流量在第一季受到充滿挑戰的營運環境和某些特殊影響（例如 2023 年底應付帳款餘額增加）的影響。這種現金流出加上我們減少的 LTM EBITDA 導致我們的淨負債比率上升至 2.9。我們預計，隨著我們的營運獲利能力改善以及我們完成生物製劑等承諾的資本支出投資，我們的現金流出雖然仍為負數，但在未來幾季將大幅改善。因此，儘管我們的淨負債比率在未來幾季可能會略有增加，但我們仍然擁有強大的財務靈活性，可以在第一季末擁有超過 5 億歐元的流動性來應對當前的環境。

I will now hand over to Matthias who will guide you through our strategic and operational update.

現在我將把工作交給馬蒂亞斯，他將指導您完成我們的策略和營運更新。

Great, thank you Laetitia. Good morning, good afternoon everyone. Really great to be back so soon after our full year results. Let's just move to the next slide immediately. Yes, well, I'm very excited to provide a top-line view on a few disclosed partnerships we were able to close as part of -- particularly as part of our Shared R&D efforts.

太好了，謝謝你，利蒂西亞。大家早安，下午好。很高興在我們公佈全年業績後這麼快就回來了。讓我們立即轉到下一張投影片。是的，我很高興能夠提供一些我們能夠關閉的已披露合作夥伴關係的主要觀點，這些合作夥伴關係是我們的一部分，特別是作為我們共享研發工作的一部分。

So if I quickly talk through them, and there's an AI-powered partnership with the techbio Owkin, where we combine their expertise on the target side with our integrated discovery and development platform in oncology and I&I. We also announced just another partnership with the foundation, here with the Crohn’s & Colitis Foundation, where in the high unmet need area of IBD, we again provide them access to our integrated R&D platform. Quite interesting is also the collaboration framework with Claris Ventures because this allows them to have access to our R&D capabilities across different therapeutic areas for their companies in UK, Italy and Switzerland.

因此，如果我快速地與他們交談，就會發現與techbio Owkin 建立了人工智慧驅動的合作夥伴關係，我們將他們在目標方面的專業知識與我們在腫瘤學和I&I 方面的綜合發現和開發平台相結合。我們還宣布與該基金會建立另一項合作夥伴關係，即與克羅恩病和結腸炎基金會合作，在IBD 的高度未滿足需求領域，我們再次為他們提供我們的整合研發平台的訪問權限。與 Claris Ventures 的合作框架也非常有趣，因為這使他們能夠為英國、義大利和瑞士的公司利用我們在不同治療領域的研發能力。

And then yes admittedly after period end but we are also excited to approach cardiology in a new way with our precision approach across Bayer and Evotec. Now, in summary, we feel quite confident that our differentiated, integrated offerings are very attractive for very different kind of partners. So I mentioned Ventures, Foundation, Big Pharma, as they work with us from early disease understanding, so from novel targets, and then use the full spectrum of our PanOmics platforms and our end-to-end platform towards IND and Phase 1.

誠然，在期末後，我們也很高興能夠透過拜耳和 Evotec 的精確方法以新的方式研究心臟病學。現在，總而言之，我們非常有信心，我們的差異化整合產品對於不同類型的合作夥伴都非常有吸引力。所以我提到了創投公司、基金會、大型製藥公司，因為他們從早期疾病理解、新標靶開始與我們合作，然後使用我們的 PanOmics 平台和端到端平台的全系列進行 IND 和第一階段。

Let me illustrate a little bit the underlying business dynamics. And I move to the next slide. So the question is first, what are we seeing here actually on this slide? So while we are not going into more detailed reporting in the future, I'm showing here Discovery, which is really the heartbeat of Shared R&D. It's roughly 70% of revenues in Shared R&D. What we plot here are now close sales, so really signed contracts. Now as a reminder, from a close contract to revenues, it might take four, six, eight months. So sales can really also drive revenues over more than a year, both in terms of ramp up, then also continuation of the contract.

讓我稍微說明一下潛在的業務動態。然後我轉到下一張投影片。所以問題首先是，我們在這張投影片上實際上看到了什麼？因此，雖然我們將來不會進行更詳細的報告，但我在這裡展示的是發現，這確實是共享研發的核心。約 70% 的收入來自共享研發。我們這裡繪製的現在是成交量，所以確實簽訂了合約。現在提醒一下，從簽訂緊密合約到獲得收入，可能需要四、六、八個月的時間。因此，銷售確實也可以在一年多的時間內推動收入，無論是在成長方面還是在合約的延續方面。

And that having said, what you see here really is that Q1 2024 has been our second best quarter for Evotec in discovery. And we take this as a data pointing to recovery. We have early data that suggests a similar business momentum already in Q2. Now, on the development side, as noted here, we see as competitors sometimes call it proposal momentum. So we have direct interactions on proposals. That's our 50% probability stage. We see that momentum here. And we expect this forward moving then into closed sales at a later point.

話雖如此，您在這裡看到的確實是 2024 年第一季是 Evotec 發現方面第二好的季度。我們將此視為指向復甦的數據。我們的早期數據顯示第二季已經出現了類似的業務動能。現在，在開發方面，正如此處所述，我們看到競爭對手有時將其稱為提案動力。因此我們就提案進行了直接互動。這就是我們的 50% 機率階段。我們在這裡看到了這種勢頭。我們預計這一進展將在稍後進入結束銷售階段。

In summary, closed sales are leading indicator of new revenues later in the year. And combined with what we are hearing, and you are hearing from competitors and peers, I mean, for us gives us a solid footing and planning for stronger business momentum towards the end of the year. Now, let me move to our second reporting segment, which is Just Evotec Biologics. Here we simply, in simple terms, see continuation of a strong business building and growth story we are obviously excited about. Our close sales are ahead of expectations. We are now slowly moving towards an order book of closed sales of $1 billion.

總之，成交量是今年稍後新收入的領先指標。結合我們所聽到的以及您從競爭對手和同行那裡聽到的消息，我的意思是，對於我們來說，這為我們奠定了堅實的基礎，並為年底前實現更強勁的業務勢頭做好了規劃。現在，讓我進入我們的第二個報告部分，即 Just Evotec Biologics。簡單來說，我們在這裡看到了我們顯然感到興奮的強勁業務建設和成長故事的延續。我們的成交量超出了預期。我們現在正在緩慢地向 10 億美元的成交訂單邁進。

What is more important is all I think we are making strategic progress. And that has a few components here. So the molecules we contracted with Sandoz are under development. We are expanding with existing customers. We are increasing our options towards commercial supply. So here we note signature of a First phase 3 supply. And lastly, we work with a big pharma, which is an important segment for us, on a bispecific molecule, a complex biotherapeutic. And that point is really was stressing. So if I move to the next slide, I mean, complex biotherapeutics are of course, all the rave today, in terms of bispecific complex therapeutics, et cetera. And we see it, and on the left side, you see the industry analysis, which points to the share of these complex biotherapeutics is increasing. And we have right now more than 40% of molecules in that category.

更重要的是我認為我們正在取得戰略進展。這裡有一些組件。因此，我們與山德士簽訂合約的分子正在開發中。我們正在與現有客戶一起擴展。我們正在增加商業供應的選擇。因此，我們在這裡注意到第一階段 3 供應的簽名。最後，我們與一家大型製藥公司合作，這對我們來說是一個重要的部分，開發雙特異性分子，一種複雜的生物治療藥物。這一點確實令人感到壓力。因此，如果我轉到下一張投影片，我的意思是，在雙特異性複雜治療等方面，複雜的生物治療當然是今天所有的狂歡。我們看到了這一點，在左側，您可以看到行業分析，表明這些複雜的生物治療藥物的份額正在增加。目前我們擁有超過 40% 的分子屬於該類別。

So it's overrepresented in Just Evotec Biologics. And given the feedback we hear from partners, we really see that this continuous manufacturing platform as the preferred platform for these type of biotherapeutics. Now, let me dive a little bit more into how our actually pipeline looks like. And what I'm showing here, and this is really news to you, because we have not shown it before, is how a longitudinal shot at our portfolio views. I mean, that's a complex term for saying which molecules did we touch over time. So I mean, and the message is we touched over 150 molecules.

因此，它在 Just Evotec Biologics 中的比例過高。根據我們從合作夥伴那裡聽到的回饋，我們確實認為這種連續製造平台是此類生物治療藥物的首選平台。現在，讓我更深入地了解我們的實際管道是什麼樣子的。我在這裡展示的是如何對我們的作品集觀點進行縱向拍攝，這對您來說確實是新聞，因為我們之前沒有展示過。我的意思是，這是一個複雜的術語，用來描述我們隨著時間的推移接觸了哪些分子。所以我的意思是，訊息是我們接觸了 150 多個分子。

Now, if you want to calibrate, we are right now roughly working on 56 active molecules. But this is important because, as you can imagine, if a molecule is once on our platform, it can also come back. So that's why we took the view to take the full spectrum. And if I quickly go through the numbers, we see -- we have touched more than 100 molecules in molecular optimization. That's where our AI, artificial intelligence solution, plays a critical role and is actually part of our value proposition. When it comes to IND enabling, we touch more than 50 molecules. And in late-stage clinical supply, we have 10 molecules, which also means 10 chances for commercial supply over the coming years.

現在，如果你想校準，我們現在大約正在研究 56 個活性分子。但這很重要，因為正如你所能想像的，如果一個分子曾經在我們的平台上，它也可以回來。這就是為什麼我們採取全方位的觀點。如果我快速瀏覽一下這些數字，我們會發現——我們在分子優化方面已經接觸了 100 多個分子。這就是我們的人工智慧解決方案發揮關鍵作用的地方，實際上是我們價值主張的一部分。在 IND 啟用方面，我們涉及 50 多個分子。而在後期臨床供應方面，我們有10個分子，這也意味著未來幾年有10個商業供應的機會。

Last but not least, this pipeline clearly needs capacity. And on capacity, I have the good news. J.POD 2 in Toulouse is fully on track. I keep it as simple as that. We are proud to report that two years after groundbreaking, we are there. I mean, we are expecting opening in September. And the picture is from January. So I mean, you of course can't look on this picture inside, but believe me, it looks already in all its beauty. So and with that, I just want to invite you again for 10th of October for the capital market day in Toulouse, come and see it. We will follow up on logistics soon. And that was, in short, our strategic operational update.

最後但並非最不重要的一點是，這條管道顯然需要容量。關於容量，我有個好消息。圖盧茲的 J.POD 2 已全面步入正軌。我就這麼簡單。我們很自豪地宣布，在破土動工兩年後，我們已經實現了這一目標。我的意思是，我們預計九月開業。照片是一月的。所以我的意思是，你當然不能看這張照片的內部，但相信我，它看起來已經很美麗了。因此，我想再次邀請您參加 10 月 10 日圖盧茲資本市場日，來看看。物流我們會盡快跟進。簡而言之，這就是我們的策略營運更新。

So I will quickly hand it back to you, Laetitia.

所以我會盡快把它還給你，Laetitia。

Thank you, Matthias. We are progressing well also on the execution of our three priorities to sustain the profitable growth at Evotec. So let me highlight the key updates since our last call. On priority one, to do more of what we do best and focus on smart partnering, as announced yesterday we are exiting our Orth site and correspondingly our gene therapy business to focus on our core modalities. First R&D savings have been initiated through focusing out capital allocation to the right R&D projects that are aligned with the strategic priorities of our partners.

謝謝你，馬蒂亞斯。我們在執行三個優先事項方面也進展順利，以維持 Evotec 的獲利成長。因此，讓我重點介紹自上次通話以來的關鍵更新。第一個優先事項是，為了做更多我們最擅長的事情並專注於明智的合作，正如昨天宣布的那樣，我們將退出我們的Orth 網站以及相應的基因治療業務，以專注於我們的核心模式。透過將資本分配重點放在與我們合作夥伴的策略優先事項一致的正確研發項目上，已經啟動了第一批研發節約。

In addition, we continue to strengthen our business development to accelerate the conversion of commercial leads for further revenue growth. Early signals of positive momentum, particularly in discovery are visible, as Matthias has just explained before. On our second priority, we are in a full swing of driving the execution of our cost optimization initiatives. We have initiated global purchasing optimization program with external support to maximize 2020 for savings and triggered short-term facility space reduction and footprint optimization.

此外，我們持續加強業務發展，加速商業線索轉化，實現收入進一步成長。正如馬蒂亞斯之前所解釋的那樣，積極勢頭的早期信號，特別是在發現方面，是顯而易見的。我們的第二要務是全力推動成本優化計畫的執行。我們在外部支援下啟動了全球採購優化計劃，以最大限度地在 2020 年實現節省，並引發短期設施空間縮減和占地面積優化。

Constructive discussions with the Workers Council have started and we will provide further details once the regulatory process is completed. Let me provide details on the progress of the individual initiatives on the next page. And on the third priority, pre-boarding with Christian and Aurélie is ongoing and we are looking forward to have them join over the months. To generate cost savings, we are executing a bundle of initiative that drive both short-term savings in 2024, as well as optimize the full rate savings in-line with our capacity demand expectations.

與工人委員會的建設性討論已經開始，一旦監管流程完成，我們將提供更多細節。讓我在下一頁詳細介紹各項舉措的進展。第三個優先事項是，克里斯蒂安和奧雷莉的登機前準備正在進行中，我們期待他們在幾個月內加入。為了節省成本，我們正在執行一系列舉措，既推動 2024 年的短期節省，又根據我們的容量需求預期優化全額費率節省。

The initiatives can be clustered in three areas. One footprint optimization and right sizing. We have completed the redeployment of Chemistry capacity in Marcy, Lyon in Q1. We also announced the exit of our old site on May 21st and are in advance planning stage for further site exits that we will communicate over the following months. We also initiated shorter measures to optimize the existing facility infrastructure. Regarding capital allocation, we have launched a program to optimize and harmonize pricing and rationalize diversity of options.

這些措施可集中在三個領域。一次足跡優化和正確的尺寸調整。我們在第一季完成了里昂馬西化學產能的重新部署。我們也於 5 月 21 日宣布退出舊網站，並正在提前規劃進一步的網站退出，我們將在接下來的幾個月內進行溝通。我們也採取了較短的措施來優化現有設施基礎設施。在資本配置方面，我們啟動了優化和統一定價、合理化選擇多樣性的計畫。

We continue to invest in R&D and focus on our platforms that have the best possible leverage and scalability for future collaborations with partners. Investment in IT are essential to run a resilient business and we continue to improve our systems constantly. And we address headcounts review to address our current overcapacity. We started constructive discussion with the Workers Councils, and we provide further details once the regulatory process is completed.

我們繼續投資於研發，並專注於我們的平台，為未來與合作夥伴的合作提供最佳的槓桿作用和可擴展性。IT 投資對於營運彈性業務至關重要，我們不斷改進我們的系統。我們也進行了人員審查，以解決目前的產能過剩問題。我們開始與工人委員會進行建設性討論，並在監管流程完成後提供進一步的細節。

At the same time, we need to be mindful of capacity needs in fast growing areas, such as Just Evotec Biologics, or areas where scaling back is not acceptable, which includes IT in particular. Our improving results in the second half of the year are grounded on a discipline execution. For the remaining first half of the year, we are further building the basis for better results. We are further focusing on the execution of cost improvement, which will show first visible impact in the second half of the year. We continue to drive the positive trajectory in early BD pipeline and closed sales, especially in our Discovery business.

同時，我們需要注意快速成長領域（例如 Just Evotec Biologics）或不可接受縮減規模的領域（尤其包括 IT）的產能需求。下半年業績的好轉，是基於紀律的執行。今年上半年，我們正在進一步打好基礎，取得更好的成績。我們進一步關注成本改善的執行，這將在下半年首次顯現出明顯的影響。我們繼續推動早期 BD 管道和已完成銷售的積極發展，特別是在我們的探索業務中。

In the second half, we will translate our initiatives into visual results. This includes translating BD pipeline momentum and closed sales into revenue growth, and our continued execution of the priority reset initiatives to capture efficiency gain and cost savings. The J.POD Toulouse launch will be a central milestone for Just in H2 to enable the further revenue growth. On our expectations for 2024, I want to reiterate the details shared during our full year 2023 presentation.

下半年，我們將把我們的舉措轉化為視覺效果。這包括將 BD 管道動能和已完成銷售轉化為收入成長，以及我們繼續執行優先重置計劃，以提高效率並節省成本。J.POD 圖盧茲的推出將成為 Just in H2 的一個重要里程碑，以實現收入的進一步成長。關於我們對 2024 年的期望，我想重申我們在 2023 年全年演示中分享的細節。

Q1 is a clear indication of our trajectory to achieve top-line guidance. Just Evotec Biologics as well as differentiated offerings will drive the business while more transactional businesses are likely facing a challenging environment in 2024. Future growth, a more favorable business mix, as well as our efficiency improvement measures on cost are the basis to assume that EBITDA will grow mid-double digit. And on this, I hand over to Mario to conclude this presentation.

第一季清楚地表明了我們實現營收指引的軌跡。僅 Evotec Biologics 以及差異化產品將推動業務發展，而更多交易業務可能在 2024 年面臨充滿挑戰的環境。未來的成長、更有利的業務組合以及我們的成本效率改進措施是假設 EBITDA 將成長中兩位數的基礎。在此，我請馬裡奧來結束本次演講。

Thank you, Laetitia. Thank you, Matthias, for your summaries there. On this slide, we just present to you important upcoming dates on your general meeting, the first half report, the Capital Markets Day, and then of course our nine-month quarterly statement. To conclude this presentation, what are our takeaway messages? Well, the reset is fully underway, And we continue to progress and push our initiatives to get our profitability back on track and to align ourselves and right size the organization for our market demands. We do believe we have a challenging H1 as you've heard, but we do think that this is the trough of the difficult market environment. There are very credible signs for business recovery in H2. I'd like to thank all of our employees, shareholders and stakeholders for their support, your support and all the hard work through this period. And on a very personal note, and this is the last opportunity, I'll have to say this, I'm so grateful to this management team for their huge commitment to steering Evotec through these very challenging times.

謝謝你，利蒂西亞。謝謝馬蒂亞斯的總結。在這張投影片上，我們只是向您展示即將舉行的股東大會的重要日期、上半年報告、資本市場日，當然還有我們的九個月季度報表。作為本次演講的總結，我們的要點是什麼？好吧，重置正在全面進行中，我們將繼續取得進展並推動我們的舉措，以使我們的盈利能力回到正軌，並根據我們的市場需求調整我們自己並調整組織規模。正如您所聽到的，我們確實相信我們的上半年充滿挑戰，但我們確實認為這是困難市場環境的低谷。下半年的業務復甦有非常可信的跡象。我要感謝我們所有的員工、股東和利害關係人在此期間的支持和辛勤工作。就我個人而言，這是最後一次機會，我必須這麼說，我非常感謝這個管理團隊為引導 Evotec 度過這些充滿挑戰的時期所做的巨大承諾。

They have done a magnificent job. They've done all the hard lifting in the last five months. And along with the new CEO Christian and the new CPO, Aurélie, they will form a formidable team driving Evotec forward. Thank you guys so much and that concludes the presentation.

他們做得非常出色。他們在過去五個月裡完成了所有艱苦的工作。他們將與新任執行長 Christian 和新任 CPO Aurélie 一起組成一支強大的團隊，推動 Evotec 向前發展。非常感謝大家，演講到此結束。

Thank you Mario and team and we are now looking forward to taking questions from people attending the call and I ask Sandra to start the Q&A session please.

謝謝馬裡奧和團隊，我們現在期待回答參加電話會議的人們的問題，我請桑德拉開始問答環節。

(Operator Instructions) Charles Weston, RBC.

（操作員說明）Charles Weston，RBC。

Hello, thank you for taking my questions. I'll do three please, the first one is more of a clarification. On the call last month, one analyst asked whether the EBITDA guidance for 2024 meant EUR100 million, and, Laetitia, I think you did say EUR100 million in upwards, although you carry out a bit with the word ballpark. Can you just confirm what you mean here and what the range of EBITDA is that's implied by your guidance of mid-double digits?

您好，感謝您回答我的問題。我會做三個，第一個更多的澄清。在上個月的電話會議上，一位分析師詢問 2024 年 EBITDA 指導是否意味著 1 億歐元，Laetitia，我認為您確實說了 1 億歐元以上，儘管您用了“大概”這個詞。您能否確認一下您在這裡的意思以及您的中兩位數指導所暗示的 EBITDA 範圍是多少？

So for the guidance that we are sharing is a mid-double digit percentage. And I would say the consensus that is coming to us is around EUR95 million. And I would say that directionally that's where we are targeting for this year.

因此，我們分享的指導是中兩位數的百分比。我想說的是，我們達成的共識約為 9500 萬歐元。我想說，這就是我們今年的目標。

I see. Thank you. And then, can I ask what's driving that 70% growth in discovery work? Is it more relating to the Innovate business model, i.e. not really delivering necessarily near-term margin, or is it more on execute? Is it more biotech or pharma? And I'm asking this because a month ago you said you weren't seeing much improvement in demand from biotech funding improvements, nor from BIO-SECURE. So I'm just trying to figure out if that's changed.

我懂了。謝謝。然後，我可以問一下是什麼推動了發現工作 70% 的成長嗎？它是否更多地與創新業務模式相關，即不一定真正提供短期利潤，還是更多地與執行有關？是更多的生物技術還是製藥？我問這個問題是因為一個月前你說你沒有看到生物技術資金改善和生物安全的需求有太大改善。所以我只是想弄清楚這是否改變了。

Charles, let me take that. Thanks for the question, Matthias here. So first of all, let's start with where do we see very strong traction with customers. That's often when we offer an integrated offering, which also covers multiple steps along the value chain. So I just want -- not only because we give up Innovate as a reporting, I mean, it's also important to understand those contracts have near-term margin. Now, we might have long-term upsides, but they have margin. So what has changed?

查爾斯，讓我接受。謝謝你的提問，馬蒂亞斯。首先，讓我們從我們在哪裡看到對客戶有很強的吸引力開始。這通常是我們提供整合產品的時候，它也涵蓋了價值鏈上的多個步驟。所以我只是想——不僅因為我們放棄了創新報告，我的意思是，了解這些合約的近期利潤率也很重要。現在，我們可能有長期的優勢，但他們有利潤。那麼發生了什麼變化呢？

I mean, frankly, I think the reset and progress, I think we are doing, I think based on partner feedback, a good job on the BD side. We leverage our relationships because the deals we were able to close have of course a long run preparation timeline coming from summer last year. So how I want to frame it is the green shots we see from BIO-SECURE Act and in terms of demand, the hopefully improving biotech environment, I don't think that's what we see at right now. Right now we see translation of our value proposition into business. So that's what makes us hopeful, is that combined with what we hear from competitors, what we see in the market, that we see a much better picture towards the end of the year next year.

坦白說，我認為重置和進展，我認為我們正在做，我認為基於合作夥伴的回饋，BD 方面做得很好。我們利用我們的關係，因為我們能夠完成的交易當然有從去年夏天開始的長期準備時間表。因此，我想要描述的是我們從《生物安全法案》中看到的美好前景，就需求而言，希望改善的生物技術環境，我認為這不是我們現在所看到的。現在我們看到我們的價值主張轉化為業務。因此，這讓我們充滿希望，結合我們從競爭對手那裡聽到的情況以及我們在市場上看到的情況，我們在明年年底看到了更好的前景。

Thank you. That's clear. And then my last one please, relates to milestones. In the original 2025 guidance, this included roughly EUR70 million from milestones. I know you're not going to give guidance now, but could you at least indicate whether the programs that you had factored in to deliver those milestones are still on track?

謝謝。很清楚。我的最後一個問題與里程碑有關。在最初的 2025 年指導中，這包括來自里程碑的約 7000 萬歐元。我知道您現在不會提供指導，但您至少可以表明您為實現這些里程碑而考慮的計劃是否仍在按計劃進行？

So, I mean, we can't say a lot to that, to be very honest, and we have not guided on that. So, I mean, that's not fully correct. I mean, what we have said qualitatively, that 2024 is, I struggle for the word, weak or soft on milestones as a year. And 2025 can be stronger if science is progressing, can be much stronger. But we have not and cannot provide guidance in a quantitative form.

所以，我的意思是，說實話，我們對此不能說太多，而且我們也沒有對此提供指導。所以，我的意思是，這並不完全正確。我的意思是，我們定性地說過，2024 年是我為這個詞而奮鬥的一年，無論是里程碑上的軟弱還是軟弱。如果科學不斷進步，2025 年將會更加強大，甚至會更強大。但我們沒有也不可能提供定量形式的指導。

All right, thank you.

好吧。

Thibault Boutherin, Morgan Stanley.

蒂博·布瑟林，摩根士丹利。

Yes, thank you. My first question is just on the early dynamics in the second quarter. You mentioned the split between H1, H2 -- H1 still difficult. So just based on the kind of initial trend you're seeing this quarter, should we just expect that Q2 will be similar to Q1 in terms of revenue growth, profitability, and then the year more skewed towards the second half. So just some details here would be helpful. And then the second question, just if you could mention, if you could comment on the margin difference, so the mix on margin between transactional services and discovery, and if we see a shift of this mix going forward, if it's going to improve margins. Thank you.

是的，謝謝。我的第一個問題是關於第二季的早期動態。你提到了 H1、H2 之間的劃分——H1 仍然很困難。因此，根據您在本季度看到的初始趨勢，我們是否應該預期第二季度在收入成長、獲利能力方面將與第一季度相似，然後今年將更加傾向於下半年。因此，這裡僅提供一些詳細資訊就會有所幫助。然後是第二個問題，您是否可以提及，您是否可以評論利潤率差異，交易服務和發現之間的利潤率組合，以及我們是否看到這種組合的轉變，是否會提高利潤率。謝謝。

So let me go through your first question regarding the dynamic of the path for Q2. As we said, we are progressing towards H2 into getting momentum in picking up in the revenue. So I would say effectively H2 will be the quarter where we will see a trend that will be shifting. So we are at the moment really getting those contract and sales orders. We see the dynamic, but of course, as Matthias mentioned, there is few months before it translates into revenue. So in the short-term, I would say that directionally, you need to look at towards end of the year and H2 to get this ramp up really visible in terms of EBITDA and revenue growth.

那麼，讓我來回答一下您關於第二季路徑動態的第一個問題。正如我們所說，我們正在下半年取得收入成長的勢頭。因此，我想說，下半年我們將看到趨勢轉變的季度。因此，我們目前正在真正獲得這些合約和銷售訂單。我們看到了這種動態，但當然，正如馬蒂亞斯所提到的，它還需要幾個月的時間才能轉化為收入。因此，從短期來看，我想說，從方向上來說，你需要專注於年底和下半年，才能在 EBITDA 和收入成長方面真正看到這種成長。

And Thibaut let me comment on your second question because forgive us we won't discuss margin difference between the spec -- because it's really a spectrum. And one reason is not wanting to, because our COO Craig, will always tell us we have to optimize an existing capacity and that we have high margin work. And of course, we need the volume as well to drive the overall margin. So I think the bigger difference you have to think about is where and how strong is our value proposition. And that's a statement we continuously make that it's stronger on the integrated side where we have the differentiated offering.

蒂博讓我評論你的第二個問題，因為請原諒我們，我們不會討論規格之間的邊際差異 - 因為它實際上是一個範圍。原因之一是不想這樣做，因為我們的營運長克雷格總是告訴我們，我們必須優化現有產能，而且我們有高利潤的工作。當然，我們還需要銷售量來推動整體利潤率。因此，我認為您必須考慮的更大差異是我們的價值主張在哪裡以及有多強。這是我們不斷做出的聲明，即我們在提供差異化產品的整合方面更加強大。

Understood. Thank you.

明白了。謝謝。

Michael Ryskin, Bank of America.

麥可‧萊斯金，美國銀行。

Great. Thanks for taking the question. I want to go back to the orders or the closed sales and discovery, the helpful chart you had during the presentation. I was wondering, seems like that's relatively volatile historically, more so than we would have thought. And obviously, you know, 2023, you have the cyberattack impact. So that's not unexpected. But even prior to that, you had a decent amount of volatility. So just curious, what makes that those order trends so volatile? Is there any seasonality there? Are there single customer orders or a couple customer orders that tend to swing that? Just trying to take your comments on the fact that you saw strength in 1Q and you're seeing it in 2Q. How predictive should that be going forward? Or is that really -- should we not read too much into that? Thanks.

偉大的。感謝您提出問題。我想回到訂單或已完成的銷售和發現，以及您在演示過程中獲得的有用圖表。我想知道，從歷史上看，這似乎相對不穩定，比我們想像的還要不穩定。顯然，您知道，到 2023 年，您將受到網路攻擊的影響。所以這並不意外。但即使在此之前，你也有相當大的波動性。所以只是好奇，是什麼讓這些訂單趨勢如此不穩定？那裡有季節性嗎？是否有單一客戶訂單或幾個客戶訂單會導致這種情況的波動？只是想就您在第一季和第二季看到的實力這一事實發表評論。未來的預測該如何？或者這真的是——我們不應該對此過度解讀嗎？謝謝。

I mean, thank you for that question. I'm actually excited you asked that, because it helps me to explain that we, in fact we don't have a sausage factory. Because why do I make that analogy? Because we don't have stable, predictable demand of small units. So what the real value is are high value large contracts. And That drives a certain volatility. So I can predict already now, you will see for instance a spike also in the next quarter of a large contract, so they make a difference. So you have an underlying basis of more transactional work that's actually relatively stable in this that you obviously don't see in this because we don't have the breakdown. And then you see the peaks in this pattern through large contracts. And of course we work on reducing the volatility but that's the reality of our business.

我的意思是，謝謝你提出這個問題。我真的很興奮你問這個問題，因為這有助於我解釋我們實際上沒有香腸工廠。因為我為什麼要做這樣的類比呢？因為我們沒有穩定的、可預測的小單位需求。所以真正的價值是高價值的大合約。這會帶來一定的波動。所以我現在就可以預測，例如，你會看到大合約的下個季度也會出現峰值，所以它們會產生影響。因此，您擁有更多事務性工作的基礎，實際上相對穩定，但您顯然在這方面看不到，因為我們沒有細分。然後你可以透過大額合約看到這種模式的峰值。當然，我們致力於減少波動性，但這就是我們業務的現實。

Okay, that's actually really helpful. And then follow up on that is on the cost optimization. Again, you provided a powerful color on your progress on facility footprint reduction, headcount reduction. I'm just wondering, the signals you saw in 1Q and in April and May, nothing in terms of demand signals in the market, there's been no change in your timelines or in the extent of your cost reduction. Is that correct? Just put another way is, you're not seeing any -- and it's going to make you think that you suddenly might need more capacity and more headcount going forward.

好吧，這確實很有幫助。然後跟進的是成本優化。您再次為減少設施佔地面積、減少員工數量的進度提供了有力的支援。我只是想知道，您在第一季以及四月和五月看到的訊號，市場上的需求訊號沒有任何變化，您的時間表或成本削減的程度沒有變化。那是對的嗎？換句話說，你看不到任何東西，這會讓你認為你可能突然需要更多的產能和更多的員工人數。

Maybe I can take the -- it's Craig here, Maybe I can take the question about what the expected timeline, the dynamics of the cost reduction or reset plan is. It's fully on track. It's as recent as four weeks ago. Much of the cost reduction that we have in a reset frame will be delivered during the course of 2024. And as Laetitia already mentioned during the presentation, there are a couple of key indicators that -- that's already well underway, such as the exit of Chemistry Marcy and the exit from gene therapy, which we announced yesterday. There are further footprint optimizations where we're getting out all particular buildings on campus environments where we're able to consolidate and of course that intensifies our occupancy without affecting revenue or headcount so that's also a margin accretive impact.

也許我可以回答——我是克雷格，也許我可以回答有關預期時間表、成本削減或重置計劃動態的問題。一切都已完全步入正軌。就在四個星期前。我們在重置框架中實現的大部分成本削減將在 2024 年期間實現。正如 Laetitia 在演講中提到的那樣，有幾個關鍵指標已經在順利進行，例如我們昨天宣布的化學瑪西的退出和基因治療的退出。還有進一步的佔地面積優化，我們將校園環境中的所有特定建築移出，我們能夠在這些建築中進行整合，當然這會在不影響收入或員工人數的情況下增加我們的佔用率，因此這也是獲利成長的影響。

And then maybe I hand over to Matthias to comment about how the interface is between the fixed capacity versus the outlook for the later part of the year.

然後也許我會請馬蒂亞斯評論固定產能與今年下半年前景之間的關係。

I mean it's a very fair question and of course something we look very carefully at because I think we need -- internally we call it a parallel shift. We feel we are just on time to reduce the operating cost and we move that down while we look into growth towards the end of the year in 2025 from a more efficient base to grow again. So I think the short answer to this is no, we don't see shifting timelines. We just prepare with a more cost-effective Evotec than to be more successful as new growth comes in.

我的意思是，這是一個非常公平的問題，當然我們會非常仔細地研究這個問題，因為我認為我們需要──在內部我們稱之為平行轉變。我們認為降低營運成本恰逢其時，我們將其降低，同時我們著眼於 2025 年底從更有效率的基礎上實現再次成長。所以我認為對此問題的簡短答案是否定的，我們沒有看到時間表改變。我們只是準備更具成本效益的 Evotec，而不是隨著新成長的到來而取得更大的成功。

Okay, thank you so much.

好的，非常感謝。

Peter Verdult, Citi.

彼得‧韋爾杜，花旗銀行。

Hi there, Peter Verdult from Citi. Just a couple of questions and to give the bluntness obviously we've got to deal with the cyberattack, the CEO departure, and a big reset of expectations. So just in terms of just calming investor fears in the market and rebuilding credibility, I just want to make sure understand that we've got a CEO incoming, a couple of months, we probably won't hear from him until August. So there's naturally going to be a fear in the market that there's going to be another painful reset.

你好，我是花旗銀行的 Peter Verdult。只是幾個問題，坦白說，我們顯然必須應對網路攻擊、執行長離職以及預期的大幅重置。因此，就平息投資者對市場的恐懼和重建信譽而言，我只是想確保了解我們即將上任首席執行官，幾個月後，我們可能要到八月才能收到他的消息。因此，市場自然會擔心會出現另一次痛苦的重置。

Now I hear what you're doing in terms of talking about order book dynamics, but correct me if I'm wrong, you're painting a picture of a revenue recovery story in H2 and you're providing evidence for that. But I thought Q2, the comp would be Q1, the comp was very tough because you had a very strong Q1 last year. But Q2, the comp should be very weak, or very easy, because you were hit by a cyberattack. But it sounds, I just want to make sure with the (inaudible) you seem to be implying there'll be no revenue growth year-on-year in Q2, and that's -- it's strange to me given the cyberattack impact.

現在我聽到你在談論訂單動態方面所做的事情，但如果我錯了，請糾正我，你正在描繪下半年收入復甦的故事，並且你正在為此提供證據。但我認為第二季度的比賽將是第一季度，比賽非常艱難，因為去年的第一季非常強勁。但是第二季度，比賽應該非常弱，或者非常容易，因為你受到了網路攻擊。但聽起來，我只是想確保（聽不清楚）你似乎暗示第二季的收入不會比去年同期成長，考慮到網路攻擊的影響，這對我來說很奇怪。

And similarly, Matthias on the order book dynamics, very encouraging 70% up, 70% of the business, great. But is that just a function, I think just to follow up on the earlier question, I do want to get some clarity here. Is that just a function of the fact that the order book was really poor last year because of the cyberattacks? I suppose -- what I'm really getting to is the confidence you have that we're going to see this H2 recovery. My very quick second follow-up question is speaking to C3 on some of the large pharma’s, they're having discussions about the impact of the BIO-SECURE Act.

同樣，Matthias 的訂單動態非常令人鼓舞，成長了 70%，業務成長了 70%，非常棒。但這只是一個功能嗎？這是否只是去年由於網路攻擊導致訂單量非常糟糕的結果？我想，我真正想要表達的是你們對我們將看到下半年復甦的信心。我的第二個後續問題是與 C3 就一些大型製藥公司進行交談，他們正在討論《生物安全法案》的影響。

But the way they frame it to us is that it's discussions. That's not really leading to all the patterns changing. I just want to make sure what have you seen in your business? Are you seeing some of the biopharma starting to put orders in and shifting orders to favor you or is that still a potential upside? Thank you.

但他們向我們展示的方式是討論。這並沒有真正導致所有模式的改變。我只是想確定一下您在您的業務中看到了什麼？您是否看到一些生物製藥公司開始下訂單並轉移訂單以支持您，或者這仍然是一個潛在的上行空間？謝謝。

Peter, thank you for your question. I take them and I start and then I see if my colleagues want to come in. Matthias here. So I start with your last one and work my way up. So BIO-SECURE Act, Just to be clear, what I presented today, I have not included, I said in one sentence very carefully about it's an upside, because I don't think we see the effect just yet. If at all we see it through some incoming discussions on the Just Evotec Biologics side, so more on the biologic side.

彼得，謝謝你的提問。我接過他們並開始，然後看看我的同事是否願意進來。馬蒂亞斯在這裡。所以我從你的最後一個開始，然後逐步向上。因此，《生物安全法案》，需要澄清的是，我今天提出的內容，我沒有包括在內，我用一句話非常仔細地說這是一個好處，因為我認為我們還沒有看到效果。如果說我們透過 Just Evotec Biologics 方面的一些即將到來的討論看到了這一點，那麼更多是在生物方面。

So however, in the early proposal flow, we have more and more discussions. So I think, and I mean, I give you an example. If there is a Series 8 today, there's a real discussion. Do we place the work in Asia or not? So that's the discussion where we are. And so towards the end of the year, next year, I consider that an upside. But just to be clear, that's not what we see just now. Then the second question, I mean the order book, you are right, it is a revenue recovery story. So that statement I think is correct. Now the question is -- is the order book strong?

然而，在早期的提案流程中，我們進行了越來越多的討論。所以我想，我的意思是，我給你舉了一個例子。如果今天有Seri​​ 8，就會有真正的討論。我們是否將工作安排在亞洲？這就是我們現在的討論。因此，到今年年底、明年，我認為這是一個好處。但需要明確的是，這不是我們現在看到的。然後第二個問題，我指的是訂單簿，你是對的，這是一個收入復甦的故事。所以我認為這個說法是正確的。現在的問題是──訂單強勁嗎？

So obviously I would love to see multiple quarters of this quality. But what we show today is Q1, very strong. Second best of history, not versus 2023, so very strong. And we have a similar indication on the sales pipeline, also pointing for Q2. So this is an evidence-based signal. So not to dilute the message with comparison with last year, because even there we had some sales. And this is a holistic statement over a longer period of time. Now then, your first question is, I wonder if my colleagues want to come in.

顯然，我希望看到多個季度的這種品質。但我們今天展示的是第一季度，非常強勁。歷史第二好成績，不是與 2023 年相比，所以非常強勁。我們在銷售通路上也有類似的跡象，也指向第二季。所以這是一個基於證據的訊號。因此，不要與去年相比淡化這一訊息，因為即使在那裡我們也有一些銷售。這是一個較長時期內的整體陳述。那麼，你的第一個問題是，我不知道我的同事是否願意進來。

But the reset we do now, we prepare the ground for a successful strategy, also for Christian coming in as a new CEO. So I think we want to reduce the fear of just another reset. But your key question, Q1 versus Q2, yes, you heard us right. We position H1 as a trough because I think it's the effect on ramp up time on the more transactional side of the business, on development, it's more mobilization on site protect. So all the themes we have talked about that simply takes more time. I mean, I hear you as a surprise, but that's the reality what we are seeing here right now, and then the recovery more in H2. Thank you.

但我們現在所做的重置，為成功的策略奠定了基礎，也為克里斯蒂安成為新任執行長奠定了基礎。所以我認為我們希望減少對再次重置的恐懼。但你的關鍵問題是，Q1 與 Q2，是的，你沒聽錯。我們將上半年定位為低谷，因為我認為這是對業務交易方面的啟動時間的影響，在開發方面，它是在現場保護方面的更多動員。因此，我們討論的所有主題都需要更多時間。我的意思是，我聽到你的聲音感到驚訝，但這就是我們現在在這裡看到的現實，然後是下半年的復甦。謝謝。

I would just complement Matthias on saying that of course Q2 2024, so next quarter, we still expect to have a top-line positive growth versus last year, where you are right we were into the cyber incident at that quarter. But then the reflection in terms of profitability improvement, as we said, you have -- we have shared that it will come around the second half of the year. Having said that, what it means is that in the top-line development, Q2 will be very likely around a similar pass than Q1, but it's still a growth versus last year.

我想補充一下 Matthias 的說法，當然是 2024 年第二季度，所以下個季度，我們仍然預計營收將比去年實現正增長，你是對的，我們在該季度遇到了網絡事件。但正如我們所說，獲利能力改善的反映，我們已經分享過，這將在今年下半年左右出現。話雖如此，這意味著在營收發展方面，第二季度很可能與第一季持平，但與去年相比仍然有所成長。

That's helpful. Thank you.

這很有幫助。謝謝。

Ben Jackson, Jefferies

班傑克森、傑弗里斯

Hi, thank you for the question. Just two if I may. The first is there any kind of color that you can provide to us on what we should be expecting from the Capital Markets Day later in the year, aware this is still some time off and is there any thought that's going on there or are you waiting for the incoming CEO to make an impact and make a decision on where that's going and I guess specifically is there any intention to provide any longer term aims for the business as well.

你好，謝謝你的提問。如果可以的話，就兩個。第一個是，您可以向我們提供有關我們對今年晚些時候的資本市場日的預期的任何信息，請注意，這還需要一段時間，是否有任何想法正在發生，或者您是否在等待讓即將上任的執行長產生影響並就發展方向做出決定，我想具體來說是否有任何意圖為業務提供任何長期目標。

And then secondly, just on ADCs and the recent commentary from companies in the space there, could you perhaps talk to us on how you think that you can position yourself to capitalize on potential future demand in this area, and what makes you differentiated there to become a partner of choice. Thank you.

其次，關於 ADC 以及該領域公司最近的評論，您能否與我們談談您認為如何定位自己以利用該領域的潛在未來需求，以及是什麼讓您在該領域脫穎而出成為首選合作夥伴。謝謝。

Great, Ben. Let me take that. Great questions. I mean, on the Capital Markets Day, the primary idea is really a deep dive in our progressing Just Evotec Biologics business. I mean, you will see -- you will be sit in the Grand Beauty on J.POD 2 in Toulouse. That's a primary motive for also locating it there. If we add a topic later down the road, I don't know, but that's a prime focus. Simple as that. And ADCs, I think it's definitely, we have a lot of partner discussions. We have, and I don't know, maybe Craig in a moment wants to comment a little bit on, we have a strong proposition on the ADC on the chemistry side, on the discovery side.

太棒了，本。讓我來吧。很好的問題。我的意思是，在資本市場日，主要想法實際上是深入探討我們不斷發展的 Just Evotec Biologics 業務。我的意思是，您將會看到 — 您將坐在圖盧茲 J.POD 2 的 Grand Beauty 中。這也是將其定位在那裡的主要動機。如果我們稍後添加一個主題，我不知道，但這是一個主要焦點。就那麼簡單。至於 ADC，我認為這是肯定的，我們有很多合作夥伴討論。我們有，我不知道，也許克雷格一會兒想發表一點評論，我們對 ADC 在化學方面、發現方面有一個強有力的主張。

We know that the continuous manufacturing platform is really prime for ADCs as I introduced complex biotherapeutics today because also of the flexibility in terms of delivering against fluctuating demands. We are very able to house GMP conjugation, which we don't have at this moment of time, and we are open for discussions with partners to basically for co-funding of such endeavours. So in broad, we are not fully equipped at this moment of time, but have a lot of ingredients. And I don't know, Craig, maybe a little bit on the ADC chemistry.

我們知道，連續製造平台對於 ADC 來說確實是最重要的，因為我今天介紹了複雜的生物治療藥物，因為它在應對波動的需求方面也具有靈活性。我們非常有能力進行 GMP 結合，這是我們目前所沒有的，我們願意與合作夥伴進行討論，基本上為此類努力提供共同資助。所以總的來說，我們目前還沒有完全裝備，但有很多成分。我不知道，克雷格，也許對 ADC 化學反應有一點了解。

Yeah, thanks, Matthias. And thanks for the question, Ben. I mean, as Matthias said earlier on, integration is one of our biggest advantages in being able to combine elements of capability into a high value combination and proposition is where we excel, I believe. And ADCs lend themselves exactly to that because they land on historic strength in small molecule organic chemistry but combined with our massive investments and advantages in Just Evotec Biologics in particular. So bringing the capabilities together particularly in Toulouse where we have OEB5 containment, for example, in the discovery space, we can do discovery, ADC work and bioconjugation. Also with a view through then to agile Just Evotec Biologics manufacturing of the antibody and even in commercial scale for ADCs, I think it represents a really strong position technologically and competence wise in the market.

是的，謝謝，馬蒂亞斯。謝謝你的提問，本。我的意思是，正如馬蒂亞斯之前所說，整合是我們最大的優勢之一，能夠將能力要素組合成高價值組合，我相信，主張是我們擅長的地方。ADC 恰好適合這一點，因為它們在小分子有機化學領域擁有歷史性的優勢，而且還結合了我們在 Just Evotec Biologics 方面的大量投資和優勢。因此，將各種能力結合在一起，特別是在圖盧茲，我們有 OEB5 遏制，例如，在發現領域，我們可以進行發現、ADC 工作和生物共軛。此外，從那時起，Just Evotec Biologics 能夠敏捷地生產抗體，甚至實現 ADC 的商業規模，我認為它代表了市場上技術和能力方面的真正強大地位。

Perfect, thank you.

完美，謝謝。

Falko Friedrichs, Deutsche Bank.

法爾科·弗里德里希，德意志銀行。

Thank you for taking my questions. Firstly, going back to your comment that it probably takes a few months for the orders to translate into sales and therefore earnings, can you maybe be a little bit more specific about how many months we're speaking here? That would be very helpful on average. And then secondly, can you let us know if this adjusted EBITDA figure in Q1 was in-line with your initial planning for the year. Because I'm a little bit puzzled that only a few weeks ago you pointed us to about EUR100 million of EBITDA, maybe even a bit more.

感謝您回答我的問題。首先，回到您的評論，訂單可能需要幾個月的時間才能轉化為銷售額和收入，您能否更具體地說明我們在這裡談論的是多少個月？平均而言，這將非常有幫助。其次，您能否告訴我們第一季調整後的 EBITDA 數字是否符合您今年的初步計畫。因為我有點困惑，就在幾週前，您向我們指出了約 1 億歐元的 EBITDA，甚至可能更多。

And we're now sitting here and you're pointing at only EUR95 million of EBITDA. So I'm trying to get a better feeling for how back-end loaded it really is and whether you can provide us a little bit more comfort that at least this EUR95 million is realistically achievable without hoping and praying in the last few weeks of the year. Thank you.

而我們現在坐在這裡，您看到的 EBITDA 僅有 9500 萬歐元。因此，我試圖更好地了解後端負載到底有多大，以及您是否可以為我們提供更多安慰，至少這 9500 萬歐元實際上是可以實現的，而無需在最後幾週抱有希望和祈禱。年。謝謝。

Falko, great questions. Let me start and then I hand it over to Laetitia. So first, a little bit more specific. So what you see on the written materials, we put there six months to eight plus months. I think what I said verbally is we have the full range from four months, six months, eight months, because what happens in reality – and I'll speak to a few examples. I mean, the prime example, the large contracts are integrated discovery deals. That's often a deal which starts with a list of targets. Then we do a screening, then we do the chemistry, lead optimization, and so on.

法爾科，好問題。讓我開始，然後將其交給 Laetitia。首先，更具體一點。所以你在書面資料上看到的，我們在那裡放了六個月到八個多月。我想我口頭上說的是我們有四個月、六個月、八個月的全方位時間，因為現實中會發生什麼事——我將舉幾個例子。我的意思是，最好的例子是，大型合約是綜合發現交易。這通常是一項以目標清單開始的交易。然後我們進行篩選，然後進行化學分析、先導化合物優化等。

So A, from contract signature to setting up the team takes some time. That is often also in the hand of the partner, but can take weeks. There are also scenarios where it take months, but let's say a month, so we'd. Then, I mean, quite often, we have over some remaining target validation work, which can at times even take a couple of months. So prior to more large scale chemistry starting, easily six months, eight months are gone. That's the reality of our business. That's why today we want actually to avoid the hope for the best. Falko, I mean, I like that quote because we want to turn it around and give some evidence that we see business momentum, but it will take that time.

所以A，從合約簽訂到組隊需要一些時間。這通常也由合作夥伴負責，但可能需要數週時間。也有需要幾個月的情況，但假設是一個月，所以我們會這樣做。然後，我的意思是，我們經常需要完成一些剩餘的目標驗證工作，有時甚至需要幾個月的時間。因此，在更大規模的化學反應開始之前，六個月、八個月就過去了。這就是我們業務的現實。這就是為什麼今天我們實際上要避免抱持最好的希望。Falko，我的意思是，我喜歡這句話，因為我們想扭轉局面，並提供一些證據證明我們看到了業務勢頭，但這需要時間。

Now in full transparency, there's also faster moving business. So if we see progress on cyberattacks in our (inaudible), of course you order and get the results. And that's more a cycle of days to very few weeks in full transparency. But we signal here those peaks in closed sales will take six plus months. So the best we can say here it translates into recovery late in the year and of course next year.

現在完全透明，業務發展也更快。因此，如果我們在我們的（聽不清楚）中看到網路攻擊的進展，您當然可以訂購並獲得結果。這更是一個完全透明的幾天到幾週的週期。但我們在此表示，成交量的高峰將需要六個多月的時間。因此，我們在這裡能說的最好的情況是，它會轉化為今年稍後的復甦，當然還有明年。

Now on EBITDA I think maybe I use slightly different words and let Laetitia build on it. I think we are not giving quantitative guidance here. We have given qualitative guidance and we have reacted to comments last time. It's hundreds of floor, today, we mentioned the consensus. We talk about that ballpark and we'll come back with quantitative guidance as promised, and I let Laetitia.

現在，在 EBITDA 上，我想也許我使用的措辭略有不同，讓 Laetitia 在此基礎上繼續發展。我認為我們在這裡並沒有給出定量指導。我們已經給出了定性指導，我們上次對評論做出了反應。幾百層了，今天我們提到了共識。我們討論了這個大概情況，我們將按照承諾提供定量指導，我讓 Laetitia 來。

So coming back on this specific point of course, we keep our guidance around the mid-double-digit growth for the EBITDA. I was referring to in a way your external views, which is the consensus as EUR95 million. And what I also you ask another question regarding the past and is the Q1 in-line with the guidance that we gave. And what I can confirm is that it is in-line, in top-line. And EBDA is what we have factored in to achieve this qualitative guidance that we have shared with you.

因此，回到這個具體問題，我們的指導方針仍然圍繞著 EBITDA 中兩位數的成長。我在某種程度上指的是你們的外在觀點，也就是9500萬歐元的共識。我還問了關於過去的另一個問題，第一季是否符合我們給予的指導。我可以確認的是，它是在線的，在頂線。EBDA 是我們為實現與您分享的定性指導而考慮的因素。

Okay thank you very much.

好的，非常感謝。

Joseph Hedden, RX Securities.

約瑟夫·赫登 (Joseph Hedden)，RX 證券。

Hi good afternoon thank you for taking my questions. Firstly on -- Just it's clear that it was a good quarter. I was just wondering if you could share any further details, for instance, how much of the revenue in EBITDA is made up of Sandoz work, and is that work segments, or is there any milestone element to it? Secondly, you announced a little while back the Bayer Collaborations being modified into a cardiology focus. I'm just wondering, are there any other activities going on in the old endometriosis PCOS alliances or is that work all shuttered now?

您好，下午好，謝謝您回答我的問題。首先——很明顯，這是一個不錯的季度。我只是想知道您是否可以分享任何進一步的細節，例如， EBITDA 收入中有多少是由 Sandoz 工作組成的，這是工作部分，還是其中有任何里程碑元素？其次，您不久前宣布將拜耳合作計畫調整為心臟病學重點。我只是想知道，舊的子宮內膜異位症 PCOS 聯盟是否正在進行任何其他活動，或者這項工作現在全部停止了嗎？

And then thirdly, just on the gene therapy, the closure of that facility, just wondered if you could provide any further color on your reasoning behind the choice of that particular element of the business. Thank you.

第三，就基因治療而言，關閉該設施，只是想知道您是否可以提供有關選擇該特定業務要素背後的推理的任何進一步的資訊。謝謝。

Let me start on Just. It is Matthias. And I invite Cord on Bayer. And apologies, the line was really bad here. Can you just say the reasoning on number three on what was that?

讓我從Just開始。這是馬蒂亞斯。我邀請了拜耳公司的科德。抱歉，這裡的線路非常糟糕。你能說說第三點的推理是什麼嗎？

Yes, this is Cord speaking. So regarding Bayer, Bayer continues to be an important partner for us, although our efforts in the Women's Health division have been essentially discontinued. So there's no efforts in the endometriosis or PQS ongoing anymore. Nevertheless we still have an ongoing partnership, ongoing in the field of kidney diseases and we've brought a molecule into the clinic together with Bayer on this front. So this is continuing quite nicely.

是的，我是科德在說話。因此，就拜耳而言，儘管我們在女性健康部門的努力已基本停止，但拜耳仍然是我們的重要合作夥伴。因此，不再有針對子宮內膜異位症或 PQS 的任何努力。儘管如此，我們仍然在腎臟疾病領域保持著持續的合作關係，並且我們與拜耳在這方面一起將一種分子引入臨床。所以這一切進展順利。

And as you mentioned, we have now started the collaboration in the cardiovascular space based on our iPSC drug discovery platform. And this is we believe a very excellent starting point for a more significant collaboration going forward. We are still at an early stage, but it is essentially a very fundamental new approach to cardiovascular at least.

正如您所提到的，我們現在已經基於 iPSC 藥物發現平台開始了心血管領域的合作。我們相信這是一個非常好的起點，可以推動未來更重要的合作。我們仍處於早期階段，但它本質上至少是一種非常基本的心血管新方法。

And then on the decision to close gene therapy I think we all recognize that gene therapy is -- remains a technologically very challenging areas, faced a lot of challenges in the past couple of years around safety in particular. And as a result of that, we see and believe that there is a need still for further innovations and investments in R&D in, for example novel vectors, novel delivery like capsid development. But as you've heard, we have taken a focus of our R&D investments into areas that we really feel are very strong for us in the long-run. And therefore, we felt that we could not continue to invest in R&D and novel capsids and novel vectors in the gene therapy space and maintain competitive advantage.

然後，關於關閉基因治療的決定，我想我們都認識到基因治療仍然是一個技術上非常具有挑戰性的領域，在過去幾年中面臨著許多挑戰，特別是在安全方面。因此，我們看到並相信，仍需要進一步的創新和研發投資，例如新型載體、衣殼開發等新型遞送。但正如您所聽說的，我們已將研發投資的重點放在我們認為從長遠來看對我們來說非常強大的領域。因此，我們認為我們無法繼續投資基因治療領域的研發以及新型衣殼和新型載體並保持競爭優勢。

In addition, it is a very, very good team, but still a relatively modest-sized team in an isolated site. And so as a result, it adds some complexity to our operations to maintain it. So in the principles of targeting R&D investment, focusing on costs, focusing on areas of long-term growth and development and high value, we had to come to the unfortunate decision to exit that particular topic for the closure of the site.

此外，這是一個非常非常優秀的團隊，但在一個孤立的地點仍然是一個規模相對適中的團隊。因此，它增加了我們維護它的操作的複雜性。因此，本著瞄準研發投資、關注成本、專注於長期成長和發展以及高價值領域的原則，我們不得不做出不幸的決定，退出該特定主題並關閉該網站。

Okay, thank you. That’s very clear.

好的謝謝。這非常清楚。

Christian Ehmann, Warburg Research.

克里斯蒂安‧埃曼，華寶研究公司。

Hello, everyone. And thanks for taking my question. I was just trying to get an understanding of the big customer risk they have there. So you mentioned that BMS have expected to continue to be a good -- a large customer for you. Maybe you can break it down to like something like, well, we have around 10% with one of our three pay customers and so on -- so we'd get more of an idea how high or risky your exposure in this regard is to have one or two or three large ones besides Sandoz? That will be my first one. And the second one is, I noticed in your interim report, you mentioned a downturn in Shared R&D revenue mainly driven by in the biology and chemistry business areas. I mean, we know all what chemistry business probably means -- probably relates to the API production, but I was a little bit wondering what biology means in this instance? Thank you very much.

大家好。感謝您提出我的問題。我只是想了解他們在那裡面臨的大客戶風險。所以你提到 BMS 預計將繼續成為你的一個好客戶。也許您可以將其分解為類似這樣的內容：嗯，我們的三個付費客戶之一擁有大約10% 的權益，等等——這樣我們就可以更多地了解您在這方面的風險有多大或風險有多大。那將是我的第一個。第二個是，我注意到在你們的中期報告中，你們提到共享研發收入的下滑主要是由生物和化學業務領域所推動的。我的意思是，我們知道化學業務可能意味著什麼——可能與原料藥生產有關，但我有點想知道在這種情況下生物學意味著什麼？非常感謝。

So this is Cord speaking. Maybe I will start with the BMS related question. So first of all, our BMS is an important customer for us and our collaborations are continuing to make great progress and they are delivering as we expect them to deliver. But you have to keep in mind that the overall contribution to our top-line is less than 10% or about 10%. So it's not -- there's not a comp risk essentially. We continue to have discussions with multiple partners about opportunities to expand partnerships. And here, I want to point out collaborations such as Novo, Lilly, et cetera. So overall, I think we are in really good shape on that front and believe that we will deliver on our goals here.

這是科德在講話。也許我會從 BMS 相關問題開始。首先，我們的 BMS 是我們的重要客戶，我們的合作正在繼續取得巨大進展，他們的交付正如我們所期望的那樣。但你必須記住，對我們營收的整體貢獻不到 10% 或 10% 左右。所以本質上不存在補償風險。我們繼續與多個合作夥伴討論擴大合作夥伴關係的機會。在這裡，我想指出的是 Novo、Lilly 等公司的合作。總的來說，我認為我們在這方面的狀態非常好，並且相信我們將實現我們的目標。

Thank you, Cord. And I think it's also worth saying that we track our customer concentration. Overall, given the breadth of our customer base, we are less concerned about dependence. Now what is, of course a special situation with Sandoz and DOD as we ramp-up the platform, but I think we are broadening out there already. But thank you for that part.

謝謝你，科德。我認為還值得一提的是，我們追蹤客戶的集中度。總體而言，鑑於我們客戶群的廣泛性，我們不太擔心依賴性。現在，當我們擴大平台時，山德士和國防部當然會遇到特殊情況，但我認為我們已經在擴大範圍了。但謝謝你的那部分。

On biology and chemistry, let us maybe bring us next -- I mean, earlier I talked about the integrated R&D example, and let me take that example to explore a little bit what we actually do and what we have. So when you run in a Discovery program, of course we need -- I mean -- and let's stick in the small molecule area, we need to chemistry to synthesize the molecules. Now at the same time, on the in vitro and in vivo biology for the whole biological characterization. So on balance, I mean Evotec employs more biologists than chemists, I mean, just to put it into perspective. Now while we talk qualitatively about this concept is to avoid full confusion because as you say, chemistry you have in the very early stages.

關於生物學和化學，也許讓我們接下來——我的意思是，早些時候我談到了綜合研發的例子，讓我以這個例子來探索我們實際做了什麼和我們擁有什麼。因此，當你運行「發現」計畫時，我們當然需要——我的意思是——讓我們專注於小分子領域，我們需要化學來合成分子。現在同時對體外和體內生物學進行全生物學表徵。因此，總的來說，我的意思是，Evotec 僱用的生物學家多於化學家，我的意思是，只是為了正確看待這一點。現在，當我們定性地討論這個概念時，是為了避免完全混亂，因為正如你所說，你在早期階段就已經產生了化學反應。

I mean, when you synthesize very small compound all the way into development when we have API manufacturing -- development manufacturing even at commercial scale. So to be very simple, I would stick for today to the message in our transactional parts of our businesses. So a particular development, which includes chemistry, so the development part. And Cyprotex which we have indicated, that's where we have seen the over-capacities that we are addressing now. But that hopefully puts various comments a little bit into perspective.

我的意思是，當我們合成非常小的化合物並且一直進行開發時，我們有 API 製造——即使是商業規模的開發製造。簡而言之，今天我將堅持我們業務交易部分的訊息。這是一個特定的發展，其中包括化學，所以是發展部分。我們已經指出了 Cyprotex，這就是我們現在正在解決的產能過剩問題。但這希望能讓人們對各種評論有所了解。

Okay, thank you very much.

好的，非常感謝。

(Operator Instructions) Charles Weston, RBC.

（操作員說明）Charles Weston，RBC。

Hi, thanks. Just got a couple of clarifications, please. On the R&D line, you said you've cut this or you're focused on alignment with customers. Does that mean you stopped doing Discovery work on your own pipeline? The second question is on Just. Sorry to belabor this point, but you guided that growth would be similar in 2024, I guess, that's ballpark and directional, et cetera. But I still haven't understood whether you mean as a euro number, i.e. EUR EUR55 million, EUR60 million or as a percentage number, i.e., 110% because that is quite a big difference?

你好謝謝。剛剛得到一些澄清，請。在研發方面，您說您已經削減了這一點，或者您專注於與客戶保持一致。這是否意味著您停止在自己的管道上進行發現工作？第二個問題是關於Just。很抱歉詳細闡述這一點，但您指出 2024 年的成長將是相似的，我猜，這是大致和方向性的，等等。但我還是不明白你的意思是歐元數字，即 5500 萬歐元、6000 萬歐元，還是百分比數字，即 110%，因為這是一個相當大的差異？

And then if I can just ask one more. I think, you've provided to some investors in your conversations over the last few weeks with a sort of a rough expectation of how much transactional might be down in 2024, offset by growth in Discovery. Could you just give us some quantification or guide on those, please?

然後我可以再問一個嗎？我認為，您在過去幾週的談話中向一些投資者提供了一種粗略的預期，即 2024 年交易量可能會下降多少，但會被 Discovery 的成長所抵消。您能給我們一些量化或指導嗎？

Maybe I'll start with the related question regarding R&D budget and what we're doing with it. So we still have a very significant budget in 2024. We are targeting about EUR60 million to spend on R&D internally. And as in previous year, this will be a mix of investments. Some of them will be more platform-oriented and other investments will be on developing early-stage assets that are the -- can become the foundation of the next generation of partnerships with pharma companies and biotech companies.

也許我會從研發預算以及我們正在做什麼的相關問題開始。因此，2024 年我們仍有非常可觀的預算。我們的目標是約 6000 萬歐元用於內部研發。與去年一樣，這將是混合投資。其中一些將更加以平台為導向，其他投資將用於開發早期資產，這些資產可以成為與製藥公司和生物技術公司的下一代合作夥伴關係的基礎。

Thank you, Cord. On Just, Charles, good question. We can't guide today quantitatively, but let me give you so much -- we meant it in absolute terms. So say, roughly doubling. But I mean, it's -- that's what we meant. And then your third question is, of course difficult. So I would say, we cannot go into the quantitative up and down. What we do see -- I think what we have indicated -- let's maybe as a wrap-up also to summarize that we have seen development, Cyprotex under pressure and we are adjusting with the reset of our capacity, i.e., our cost base.

謝謝你，科德。關於Just，查爾斯，好問題。我們今天無法定量地指導，但讓我給你這麼多——我們的意思是絕對的。所以說，大約翻倍。但我的意思是，這就是我們的意思。那麼你的第三個問題當然很難。所以我想說，我們不能討論數量的上下。我們所看到的——我認為我們已經表明了——讓我們也許作為總結來總結一下，我們已經看到了發展，Cyprotex 面臨著壓力，我們正在調整我們的產能，即我們的成本基礎。

I think, we are seeing closed sales discoveries that will drive it. So I mean we look holistically in terms of cost across the entire organization so to optimize and provide almost a parallel shift so that we can grow from a new base. So that's the emphasis there. And we have to look into optimally using our fixed cost installed physical capacity. These are the drivers, more quantification later to come.

我認為，我們看到的已完成銷售發現將推動這一趨勢。所以我的意思是，我們從整體上考慮整個組織的成本，以便優化並提供幾乎平行的轉變，以便我們可以在新的基礎上成長。這就是重點。我們必須考慮如何最佳地利用固定成本安裝的實體容量。這些是驅動因素，稍後會進行更多量化。

Okay. Just if I could squeeze one more in. I think in your annual report, BMS, it says contributed EUR195 million of revenue, which would be something like 25% of sales. But I think you were talking about that number being lower before. Was that something to do with segmental sales or what's the right concentration we should be thinking of there?

好的。要是我能再擠進去就好了。我認為 BMS 在你們的年度報告中說貢獻了 1.95 億歐元的收入，約佔銷售額的 25%。但我認為你之前談論過這個數字較低。這是否與細分市場銷售有關，或者我們應該考慮在那裡的正確集中度是什麼？

Charles, I mean -- so BMS is an important customer. I'd just back up quarter a little bit. That number that we stated is of course as per the Annual Report is also the revenues. And I think one has to see it not as binary as our customer and maybe the risk of leaving because that's a customer we build a pipeline together. So it is very sustainable and value accretive and that drives milestones and upside down the road. So from our perspective, we have a broad customer base. But yes I mean, we would -- we are working on multiple customers to become the BMS like in terms of pipeline building.

Charles，我的意思是——所以 BMS 是一個重要的客戶。我只是稍微備份一點。我們所說的數字當然是年報中的數字，也是收入。我認為人們不能像我們的客戶一樣二元化，也許還有離開的風險，因為這是我們一起建立管道的客戶。因此，它是非常永續的、增值的，能夠推動里程碑和顛覆性的發展。所以從我們的角度來看，我們擁有廣泛的客戶群。但是，是的，我的意思是，我們正在努力讓多個客戶成為管道建設方面的 BMS。

Okay, thank you.

好的謝謝。

Christian Ehmann, Warburg Research.

克里斯蒂安‧埃曼，華寶研究公司。

Hello again. Thanks again. So I'm trying to linger little bit on the BMS development over the next year. So I would appreciate the fact that you said, you'll get around 10% of revenues from -- in this year comes from BMS. And Matthias, you now talked about milestones and upfront potentially that might be coming in from the pipeline expansion. Do you expect any visible revenues from BMS over the next years in a similar fashion to what we see maybe in this year, not on a percentage basis, but probably on a nominal basis? Thanks.

再一次問好。再次感謝。因此，我將在明年繼續關注 BMS 的開發。所以我很感激你所說的，今年你將獲得大約 10% 的收入來自 BMS。馬蒂亞斯，您現在談到了管道擴張可能帶來的里程碑和前期潛力。您預計未來幾年 BMS 是否會以與我們今年看到的類似的方式產生任何明顯的收入，不是按百分比計算，而是可能以名義計算？謝謝。

Yes. We definitely expect similar revenues on a similar level potentially or actually growing going forward as projects keep maturing and moving forward in the pipeline. And we are also, at this point in time still growing the pipeline of opportunities within our collaborations. And so once again, I can only reiterate that they are very comfortable with our collaborations with BMS. They have been delivering in the past and we expect them to continue to deliver.

是的。我們肯定預計，隨著專案的不斷成熟和推進，未來可能或實際上會出現類似水準的類似收入成長。目前，我們仍在不斷增加合作機會。因此，我只能再次重申，他們對我們與 BMS 的合作感到非常滿意。他們過去一直在交付，我們希望他們繼續交付。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I would now like to turn the conference back over to Volker Braun for any closing remarks.

女士們先生們，這是最後一個問題。現在我想將會議轉回沃爾克·布勞恩（Volker Braun）發表閉幕詞。

Thank you. And thank you to all of you in the call and your interest in the unfolding of measures to reset Evotec towards profitable growth. In case you feel that further clarification is needed please feel free to reach out any time. And otherwise we are looking forward to speaking again at -- on the 14th of August in our H1 call or if you can make it, we would be delighted to meet you in person at our AGM in Hamburg on the June 10. Thanks a lot, and good bye.

謝謝。感謝參加電話會議的所有人，感謝你們對採取措施使 Evotec 重新實現盈利增長的興趣。如果您認為需要進一步說明，請隨時與我們聯繫。除此之外，我們期待在 8 月 14 日的 H1 電話會議上再次發言，或者如果您能參加，我們很高興在 6 月 10 日漢堡舉行的年度股東大會上與您見面。非常感謝，再見。

Ladies and gentlemen the conference is now over. Thank you for choosing Chorus Call and thank you for participating.

女士們、先生們，會議現在結束了。感謝您選擇 Chorus Call 並感謝您的參與。