Equitable Holdings Inc (EQH) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome, everyone, to the Equitable Holdings full year and fourth-quarter earnings call. (Operator Instructions) I would now like to turn the call over to Erik Bass, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

早安，歡迎大家參加 Equitable Holdings 全年及第四季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）現在，我想將電話轉給投資者關係主管 Erik Bass。請繼續。

Good morning, and welcome to Equitable Holdings full year and fourth quarter 2024 earnings calls. Materials for today's call can be found on our website at ir.equitableholdings.com.

早上好，歡迎參加 Equitable Holdings 2024 年全年和第四季度收益電話會議。今天電話會議的資料可以在我們的網站 ir.equitableholdings.com 上找到。

Before we begin, I would like to note that some of the information we present today is forward-looking and subject to certain SEC rules and regulations regarding disclosure. Our results may differ materially from those expressed in or indicated by such forward-looking statements. Please refer to the safe harbor language on slide 2 of our presentation for additional information.

在我們開始之前，我想指出，我們今天提供的一些資訊是前瞻性的，並受美國證券交易委員會有關披露的某些規則和規定的約束。我們的結果可能與此類前瞻性陳述所表達或顯示的結果有重大差異。請參閱我們簡報第 2 張投影片上的安全港語言以取得更多資訊。

Joining me on today's call are Mark Pearson, President and Chief Executive Officer of Equitable Holdings; Robin Raju, our Chief Financial Officer; Nick Lane, President of Equitable Financial; Jackie Marks, AllianceBernstein's Chief Financial Officer; and Onur Erzan, Head of AllianceBernstein's Global Client Group and Private Wealth business.

參加今天電話會議的還有 Equitable Holdings 總裁兼執行長 Mark Pearson；我們的財務長 Robin Raju； Equitable Financial 總裁 Nick Lane；聯博財務長 Jackie Marks；以及 AllianceBernstein 全球客戶群和私人財富業務主管 Onur Erzan。

During this call, we will be discussing certain financial measures that are not based on generally accepted accounting principles, also known as non-GAAP measures. Reconciliations of these non-GAAP measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures and related definitions may be found on the Investor Relations portion of our website and in our earnings release, slide presentation and financial supplement.

在本次電話會議中，我們將討論某些非基於公認會計原則的財務指標，也稱為非 GAAP 指標。這些非 GAAP 指標與最直接可比較的 GAAP 指標及相關定義的對帳表可在我們網站的投資者關係部分以及我們的收益報告、幻燈片演示和財務補充中找到。

I will now turn the call over to Mark.

現在我將電話轉給馬克。

Good morning and thank you for joining today's call. 2024 showcased the power of Equitable Holdings integrated business model and the strong growth momentum across our retirement, asset management and wealth management segments. This is a fantastic time to be focused on the US retirement market, and Equitable is uniquely positioned to grow and deliver value to all our stakeholders.

早安，感謝您參加今天的電話會議。 2024年展示了Equitable Holdings綜合業務模式的強大力量以及我們退休、資產管理和財富管理部門的強勁成長勢頭。現在是關注美國退休市場的絕佳時機，Equitable 擁有獨特的優勢，可以為所有利害關係人實現成長和創造價值。

I'll briefly highlight our 2024 results and the progress we're making against each of our 2027 financial targets. Before turning over to Nick and Onur to discuss initiatives to help sustain growth momentum for Equitable and AB. Robin will then discuss our financial results and provide some guidance for 2025.

我將簡要介紹我們的 2024 年業績以及我們在實現 2027 年每個財務目標方面所取得的進展。然後交給 Nick 和 Onur 討論幫助 Equitable 和 AB 維持成長動能的舉措。然後，羅賓將討論我們的財務表現並為 2025 年提供一些指導。

Turning to slide 3. Full year non-GAAP operating earnings were $2 billion or $5.93 per share which is up 29% year-over-year on a per share basis. Adjusting for notable items, non-GAAP operating EPS was $6.18 which is up 20% compared to the prior year and above our 12% to 15% annualized growth guidance.

翻到幻燈片 3。全年非公認會計準則營業利潤為 20 億美元，即每股 5.93 美元，較去年同期每股成長 29%。在調整顯著項目後，非 GAAP 營業每股收益為 6.18 美元，比上年增長 20%，高於我們 12% 至 15% 的年化增長預期。

Assets under management and administration increased 10% year-over-year and now exceed $1 trillion, which bodes well for growth in fee and split-based earnings as we move into 2025. We generated $1.5 billion of cash flow to the holding company at the high end of our guidance range, with over 50% coming from our asset and wealth management businesses.

管理和執行的資產年增 10%，目前已超過 1 兆美元，預示著 2025 年費用和拆分收益將實現成長。我們為控股公司創造了 15 億美元的現金流，處於指導範圍的高位，其中 50% 以上來自我們的資產和財富管理業務。

For 2025, we forecast cash generation of $1.6 billion to $1.7 billion, continuing the ramp to $2 billion by 2027. This strong cash flow enables Equitable to consistently return capital to shareholders and we deployed $1.3 billion in 2024, equating to a 66% payout ratio, consistent with our 60% to 70% target range.

到 2025 年，我們預測現金產生量將達到 16 億至 17 億美元，到 2027 年將持續增加至 20 億美元。強勁的現金流使 Equitable 能夠持續向股東返還資本，我們在 2024 年部署了 13 億美元，相當於 66% 的派息率，與我們 60% 至 70% 的目標範圍一致。

We also continue to make progress against key strategic initiatives. Through year-end, we have achieved $100 million of run rate expense saves and have clear plans to meet or exceed our $150 million target by 2027. Repositioning our investment portfolio has enabled Equitable to generate $80 million of incremental net investment income to date, putting us ahead of plan to achieve $110 million by 2027.

我們在關鍵策略舉措方面也持續取得進展。截至年底，我們已實現 1 億美元的營運費用節省，並制定了明確的計劃，到 2027 年達到或超過 1.5 億美元的目標。透過重新定位我們的投資組合，Equitable 迄今已產生了 8,000 萬美元的增量淨投資收益，使我們提前實現了 2027 年實現 1.1 億美元的計劃。

Finally, AB successfully executed the separation of its Bernstein Research Services business and completed its New York City office relocation. AB expects to produce a 33%-plus adjusted operating margin in 2025, which represents over 400 basis points of improvement from 2022.

最終，AB成功執行了伯恩斯坦研究服務業務的分離，並完成了紐約市辦公室的搬遷。AB 預計 2025 年的調整後營業利潤率將達到 33% 以上，比 2022 年提高 400 個基點以上。

Shifting to our business segments. We continue to deliver strong organic growth with full year net inflows of $7.1 billion in retirement and $4 billion in wealth management. AB reported full year active net inflows of $4.3 billion and had its second highest year ever for firm-wide sales. Importantly, this was achieved while maintaining a stable fee rate. AB also increased private markets AUM by 14% to $70 billion, helped by investments from Equitable's general account.

轉向我們的業務部門。我們持續實現強勁的有機成長，全年退休淨流入 71 億美元，財富管理淨流入 40 億美元。AB 公佈全年活躍淨流入量達 43 億美元，全公司銷售額創下史上第二高。重要的是，這是在保持穩定的費率的同時實現的。在 Equitable 一般帳戶投資的推動下，AB 也將私人市場 AUM 提高了 14%，達到 700 億美元。

Equitable also established itself as a clear leader in the emerging implant guarantee market, highlighted by over $600 million of net inflows in the year from BlackRock's LifePath Paycheck offering and the announcement of a new partnership with JPMorgan Asset Management. We expect additional inflows in the first half of 2025 and see significant growth potential in this market over the next few years.

Equitable 也在新興植入擔保市場確立了明顯的領先地位，其中最突出的是貝萊德的 LifePath Paycheck 發行以及與摩根大通資產管理公司建立新的合作夥伴關係，今年淨流入資金超過 6 億美元。我們預計 2025 年上半年將有更多的資金流入，並看到未來幾年該市場具有巨大的成長潛力。

On slide 4, we highlight some of the key performance indicators for our business segments and the progress we have made against our Investor Day targets. As a reminder, there are three key tenets to our strategy.

在投影片 4 中，我們重點介紹了我們業務部門的一些關鍵績效指標以及我們在實現投資者日目標方面所取得的進展。提醒一下，我們的策略有三個關鍵原則。

First, we're focused on defending and growing our core retirement and asset management businesses where we have scale and well-established market positions. Secondly, we're looking to scale adjacent high-growth businesses where we have a clear right-to-win. These include our Wealth Management segment and AB's private markets platform.

首先，我們專注於捍衛和發展我們的核心退休和資產管理業務，這些業務我們已擁有規模和穩固的市場地位。其次，我們正在尋求擴大相鄰的高成長業務，在這些業務中我們擁有明顯的獲勝優勢。其中包括我們的財富管理部門和 AB 的私人市場平台。

Finally, we want to see future growth by finding new emerging market opportunities. These include in-plan guarantees and AB's entrants into the China market and expansion in insurance asset management. We have made significant progress against each of these objectives and are on track to meet or exceed all our key 2027 targets.

最後，我們希望透過尋找新的新興市場機會來實現未來的成長。其中包括計劃內擔保、AB進入中國市場以及保險資產管理的擴張。我們在實現每個目標方面都取得了重大進展，並有望實現或超越我們 2027 年的所有關鍵目標。

I've already mentioned many of these accomplishments as part of our 2024 highlights, so I won't repeat them. but the results demonstrate that we have chosen to play in attractive markets and have the right strategy to be successful in each of them. There are meaningful synergies between our retirement asset management and wealth management businesses, enabling us to generate better economics by participating in the full value chain.

我已經在 2024 年亮點中提到過許多這些成就，因此我就不再重複了。但結果表明，我們選擇在有吸引力的市場中開展業務，並擁有在每個市場中取得成功的正確策略。我們的退休資產管理和財富管理業務之間存在有意義的協同作用，使我們能夠透過參與整個價值鏈創造更好的經濟效益。

Turning to slide 5. We provide a scorecard against our three primary financial targets, which are to grow annual cash generation to $2 billion by 2027, deliver a 60% to 70% payout ratio and grow non-GAAP operating earnings per share 12% to 15% annually.

翻到幻燈片 5。我們針對三個主要財務目標提供了記分卡，這三個目標分別是到 2027 年將年度現金產生量增加到 20 億美元、實現 60% 至 70% 的派息率以及非 GAAP 每股營業收益每年增長 12% 至 15%。

As I mentioned, we generated $1.5 billion of cash in 2024 and expect this to grow to $1.6 billion to $1.7 billion in 2025, a 7% to 13% year-over-year increase. This puts us well on track to achieve our $2 billion target by 2027. And Robin will talk later about actions we've taken to further visibility into future cash flows.

正如我所提到的，我們在 2024 年創造了 15 億美元的現金，預計到 2025 年這一數字將增長到 16 億至 17 億美元，同比增長 7% 至 13%。這使我們預計在 2027 年前實現 20 億美元的目標。羅賓稍後會談論我們為進一步了解未來現金流而採取的行動。

Our predictable cash flow and strong balance sheet enables us to consistently return capital to shareholders regardless of the market environment. Over the past two years, we've had a payout ratio of 67%, above the midpoint of our 60% to 70% target range. During this period, we have reduced shares outstanding by 15%.

我們可預測的現金流量和強勁的資產負債表使我們能夠無論市場環境如何都持續向股東返還資本。過去兩年，我們的派息率為 67%，高於 60% 至 70% 的目標範圍的中點。在此期間，我們已將流通股數減少了 15%。

Turning to earnings growth. We had a slow start in 2023 due to headwinds from elevated mortality and lagged impact of the equity market decline in 2022. But 2024 marked an inflection point for the business. Non-GAAP operating EPS, excluding notable items, increased 20%, bringing the two-year growth rate to 12% which is the low end of our target range. We expect this growth momentum to continue in 2025 and remain confident in delivering 12% to 15% annualized growth through 2027.

轉向獲利成長。由於死亡率上升帶來的不利因素以及 2022 年股市下跌的滯後影響，我們 2023 年開局緩慢。但 2024 年標誌著該業務的轉捩點。不包括重大項目的非公認會計準則營業每股收益成長了 20%，使兩年成長率達到 12%，這是我們目標範圍的低端。我們預計這一成長動能將在 2025 年持續，並有信心在 2027 年實現 12% 至 15% 的年化成長率。

Now I'd like to turn the call over to Nick and Onur to discuss some of the things we're doing to sustain organic growth in our core businesses and scale in adjacent markets.

現在，我想將電話轉給尼克和奧努爾，討論我們為維持核心業務的有機成長和鄰近市場的規模所做的一些事情。

Thanks, Mark. I'll start by discussing some of the key growth initiatives we're focused on in retirement and wealth management. Let me start with retirement.

謝謝，馬克。我將首先討論我們在退休和財富管理方面關注的一些關鍵成長措施。讓我先從退休開始。

First, in Individual Retirement, we continue to extend our edge through client-centric innovation, building on our leadership position in the fast-growing retirement market. We were the pioneer in that market. And in recent years, we've introduced new strategies like Dual Direction and added new indices. And this year, we will enhance our core SCS and SCS income products.

首先，在個人退休方面，我們繼續透過以客戶為中心的創新來擴大我們的優勢，鞏固我們在快速成長的退休市場中的領導地位。我們是該市場的先驅。近年來，我們推出了雙向等新策略並增加了新指數。今年，我們將增強我們的核心 SCS 和 SCS 收入產品。

We see rising consumer demand for lifetime income solutions, with Equitable is well situated to meet this need. We are also a leader in the registered income product market. where barriers to entry are high, and we face limited competition.

我們看到消費者對終生收入解決方案的需求不斷增長，而 Equitable 能夠很好地滿足這項需求。我們也是註冊收入產品市場的領導者。進入門檻很高，我們面臨的競爭有限。

While our offering will continue to evolve based on consumer needs, we won't deviate from our commitment to providing attractive returns with a narrow range of outcomes for our shareholders. Importantly, the strong growth we see in individual retirement has benefited across Equitable as it drives asset management, net flows and wealth management revenue.

雖然我們的產品將根據消費者的需求不斷發展，但我們不會偏離為股東提供有吸引力的回報和狹窄的結果範圍的承諾。重要的是，我們看到的個人退休金強勁成長使 Equitable 受益，因為它推動了資產管理、淨流量和財富管理收入。

Turning to group retirement. We are broadening our institutional offering and recently became a provider of income solutions for leading HSA administrator. As with most institutional markets, flows will be lumpy and episodic, but we expect to receive about $200 million in the first quarter.

轉向團體退休。我們正在擴大我們的機構服務範圍，最近成為領先的 HSA 管理者的收入解決方案提供者。與大多數機構市場一樣，資金流動將是不穩定且不規則的，但我們預計第一季將收到約 2 億美元。

We're also looking to become a bigger player in the small case 401(k) and 457 markets, by introducing equitable sponsored pooled employer plans or PETs, that will allow our advisors to leverage their relationships with small business owners and professional organizations. This market has been growing 9% annually over the last five to seven years, and it aligns well with our distribution, has attractive margins and complements our core 403(b) business.

我們還希望透過推出公平的贊助性集合雇主計劃（PET）成為小型 401（k）和 457 市場中更大的參與者，這將使我們的顧問能夠利用他們與小企業主和專業組織的關係。在過去五到七年裡，這個市場每年增長 9%，並且與我們的分銷模式非常契合，利潤率相當可觀，並且與我們的核心 403(b) 業務形成補充。

Next, in Wealth Management. I'm very excited about the momentum in our wealth management business. Our brand and supported independence model are resonating well in the market with record AUA at flows. We see opportunities to further accelerate. 2024 marked a record year for experienced advisor recruiting.

接下來是財富管理。我對我們的財富管理業務的發展勢頭感到非常興奮。我們的品牌和支持的獨立模式在市場上引起了良好的反響，AUA 流量創下了歷史新高。我們看到了進一步加速的機會。 2024 年是經驗豐富的顧問招募創紀錄的一年。

We also recently hired a new Head of Business Development from a leading competitor to enhance our focus in this area. When coupled with our strong organic growth, this should continue to drive sustainable momentum in our wealth planner count, which was up 10% this year and advisor productivity.

我們最近也從一家領先的競爭對手那裡聘請了一位新的業務發展主管，以加強我們在這一領域的重點。與我們強勁的有機成長相結合，這將繼續推動我們的財富規劃師數量（今年成長了 10%）和顧問生產力的可持續成長勢頭。

Let me turn it over to Onur to discuss AB.

讓我把主題交給 Onur 來討論 AB。

Thanks, Nick. At AB, we have several initiatives to expand our offering and accelerate growth. As we have discussed, a key focus is growing our private markets platform to $90 billion to $100 billion of assets by 2027, at which point it will drive over 20% of our revenues. We recently hired a new team focused on the private ABS market, which has capabilities that align well with the needs of Equitable and our other insurance clients. Some of our recently launched strategies which were proceeded by Equitable have also begun to scale.

謝謝，尼克。在 AB，我們採取了多項措施來擴大我們的產品範圍並加速成長。正如我們所討論的，我們的重點是到 2027 年將私募市場平台的資產規模擴大到 900 億至 1000 億美元，屆時它將帶來我們 20% 以上的收入。我們最近聘請了一支專注於私人 ABS 市場的新團隊，該團隊的能力非常符合 Equitable 和我們其他保險客戶的需求。我們最近推出的一些由 Equitable 執行的策略也已開始擴大規模。

For example, we recently added new client mandates in NAV lending and residential mortgages. In addition, we are expanding semi-liquid auto offerings like our AB carve-out credit opportunities in -- turbo fund, which now has over $200 million of AUM and will soon be going live on additional distribution platforms. We have seen good success with our Equitable -- platform, which now has over $5 billion of AUM across 17 products, and we expect this growth trajectory to continue.

例如，我們最近在資產淨值貸款和住宅抵押貸款方面增加了新的客戶授權。此外，我們正在擴大半流動性汽車產品，例如我們的 AB 剝離信貸機會——渦輪基金，該基金目前擁有超過 2 億美元的 AUM，並將很快在其他分銷平台上上線。我們的 Equitable 平台取得了巨大成功，目前該平台 17 種產品的資產管理規模超過 50 億美元，我們預計這種成長軌跡將持續下去。

We are also excited about the momentum in our separately managed account offering, which had record sales and net flows in 2024, and we are expanding our tax-managed SMA platform to include multi-asset solutions. Finally, in the fourth quarter, we announced that we are making a $100 million investment in RGA sidecar vehicle, Ruby Re.

我們也對單獨管理帳戶產品的勢頭感到興奮，該產品在 2024 年的銷售額和淨流量創下了歷史新高，並且我們正在擴展我們的稅務管理 SMA 平台以涵蓋多資產解決方案。最後，在第四季度，我們宣布向 RGA 邊車企業 Ruby Re 投資 1 億美元。

We expect to generate an attractive return on the capital we have invested, and we also signed an investment management agreement to manage $1 billion for RGA, which will be fully in private credit strategies. With Equitable's support, we will continue to evaluate other potential sidecar opportunities to help us capture the significant growth opportunity in insurance asset management.

我們期望對所投資的資本產生可觀的回報，同時我們也簽署了一項投資管理協議，為 RGA 管理 10 億美元，這筆資金將全部用於私人信貸策略。在 Equitable 的支持下，我們將繼續評估其他潛在的額外投資機會，以幫助我們抓住保險資產管理領域的巨大成長機會。

I will now turn it over to Robin to discuss fourth quarter results.

現在我將把話題交給羅賓來討論第四季的業績。

Thanks, Onur. Turning to slide 7. I will highlight our results from the quarter. On a consolidated basis, Equitable Holdings reported non-GAAP operating earnings of $522 million or $1.57 per share, up 18% year-over-year. The only notable item in the quarter was below plan alternative investment income, which reduced earnings by $27 million after tax or $0.08 per share.

謝謝，Onur。翻到幻燈片 7。我將重點介紹我們本季的業績。根據合併數據，Equitable Holdings 報告非 GAAP 營業利潤為 5.22 億美元，即每股 1.57 美元，年增 18%。本季唯一值得注意的項目是低於計劃的另類投資收入，這使稅後收益減少了 2,700 萬美元，即每股 0.08 美元。

Adjusting for this item, non-GAAP EPS was $1.65 per share, up 23% year-over-year, driven by organic growth across our businesses, favorable markets and share repurchases. GAAP net income was $899 million for the quarter, significantly above our operating earnings, driven by noneconomic impact from our hedge portfolio, which was offset by changes in OCI. Segment details are provided in the appendix, but I want to highlight a few drivers of this quarter's results.

調整此項後，非 GAAP 每股盈餘為 1.65 美元，較去年同期成長 23%，這得益於我們業務的有機成長、有利的市場和股票回購。本季 GAAP 淨收入為 8.99 億美元，遠高於我們的營業收入，這主要得益於我們對沖投資組合的非經濟影響，但被 OCI 的變化所抵消。附錄中提供了分部詳細信息，但我想強調本季業績的幾個驅動因素。

Starting with Asset Management. AB reported very strong fourth quarter earnings, helped by $66 million of permit -- fees from public alternative strategies and a lower comp to revenue ratio. AB's results tend to be seasonally strong in the fourth quarter, and we still forecast an adjusted operating margin of 33% in 2025, assuming neutral markets.

從資產管理開始。AB 公佈第四季度收益非常強勁，這得益於 6,600 萬美元的授權費用——來自公共替代策略以及較低的營收比率。AB 的業績在第四季往往具有季節性強勁表現，假設市場中性，我們仍預測 2025 年的調整後營業利潤率將達到 33%。

In Protection Solutions, full year earnings were $239 million ex notable items, consistent with our $200 million to $300 million guidance range. In the fourth quarter, gross mortality claims were close to our expectation, but we experienced elevated net mortality because of two large claims where we had minimal reinsurance coverage.

在保護解決方案方面，全年收益為 2.39 億美元（不包括重要項目），與我們 2 億至 3 億美元的指導範圍一致。在第四季度，總死亡索賠接近我們的預期，但由於兩起大額索賠，我們的再保險覆蓋範圍極小，導致淨死亡率上升。

For the quarter, reinsurance coverage was 12% of gross claims below the 15% we typically expect. The volatility is not surprising given the concentration of our life block in older age policies with high face values and low retention levels, and it does not change our outlook for mortality. As a reminder, we expect seasonality in this business with higher life claims in the first and fourth quarters.

本季度，再保險覆蓋率為總索賠的 12%，低於我們通常預期的 15%。考慮到我們的壽險部門集中在面額高、留存水準低的老年保單中，這種波動並不令人意外，而且它不會改變我們對死亡率的展望。提醒一下，我們預計該業務將具有季節性，第一季和第四季的人壽索賠將更高。

Expenses are elevated in the fourth quarter, due to strong business growth in 2024. Sales and VNB were up significantly, which resulted in higher commission payouts and incentive comp accruals -- visit team across most of the segments and is particularly evident in individual retirement, wealth management and corporate and other. We view most of the increase in expenses this quarter as a good expense given they are variable in nature and reflect the growth in businesses over the past year.

由於 2024 年業務強勁成長，第四季度的費用有所增加。銷售額和新業務價值大幅上升，導致佣金支出和激勵性薪酬應計金額增加——訪問大多數部門的團隊，特別是在個人退休、財富管理和企業及其他領域。我們認為本季的大部分費用增加都是好的費用，因為它們本質上是可變的並且反映了過去一年業務的成長。

As Mark highlighted, across Equitable and AB, we achieved $100 million of run rate savings through the end of 2024, and are on track for at least $150 million of annual savings by 2027. We will continue to find ways to become more efficient and eliminate bad expenses from the enterprise. You should see expenses grow slower than revenues over time, although there is some seasonality.

正如馬克所強調的，在 Equitable 和 AB，到 2024 年底我們實現了 1 億美元的運行率節約，並且預計到 2027 年每年節省至少 1.5 億美元。我們將繼續尋找提高效率的方法並消除企業的不良開支。您應該會看到，隨著時間的推移，支出的成長速度比收入的成長速度慢，儘管存在一些季節性。

I would note compensation and benefit expenses for our businesses tend to be highest in the first quarter. Finally, as expected, we had a lower tax rate across most of our businesses due to some favorable discrete items in the quarter. This rate -- the overall company tax rate to 17% in the quarter but the full year tax rate came in at 19%, consistent with our guidance.

我要指出的是，我們業務的薪資和福利支出往往在第一季最高。最後，正如預期的那樣，由於本季一些有利的單項項目，我們大多數業務的稅率都有所降低。該稅率—本季公司整體稅率為 17%，但全年稅率為 19%，與我們的預期一致。

Turning to slide 8. I'll provide some guidance for 2025. We have good momentum with double-digit growth in both spread and fee-based income, which should continue given healthy net flows and a tailwind from interest rates and equity markets. We expect spread income to roughly track the growth in general account assets, excluding embedded derivatives, while fee revenue across retirement, AB and wealth management will benefit from higher average AUM balances.

翻到幻燈片 8。我將為 2025 年提供一些指導。我們擁有良好的發展勢頭，利差和費用收入均實現了兩位數的成長，在健康的淨流量和利率與股票市場的推動下，這種勢頭應該能夠持續下去。我們預計利差收入將大致追蹤一般帳戶資產（不包括嵌入式衍生性商品）的成長，而退休、AB 和財富管理的費用收入將受益於更高的平均 AUM 餘額。

For Protection Solutions, we forecast 2025 earnings ex-notable items to come in at the lower end of our $200 million to $300 million range, similar to what we reported in 2024. This assumes stable mortality experience and alternative investment income at the lower end of our target range.

對於保護解決方案，我們預測 2025 年扣除重要項目的收益將處於 2 億至 3 億美元範圍的低端，與我們 2024 年報告的收益相似。這假設死亡率經驗穩定且另類投資收入處於我們的目標範圍的低端。

For Corporate and Other, while there can be some quarterly volatility in results, we expect the segment to generate a full year loss of approximately $400 million. We also project alternative returns in our investment portfolio to come in at the lower end of our 8% to 12% target range, an improvement from the 5% return reported in 2024. I expect alternatives to start the year in the 5% to 6% range before grading up as M&A and IPO activity accelerates in the US.

對於企業和其他部門，雖然業績可能會出現一些季度波動，但我們預計該部門全年虧損約 4 億美元。我們還預計，我們投資組合中的替代回報率將達到 8% 至 12% 的目標範圍的低端，比 2024 年報告的 5% 的回報率有所提高。我預計另類投資的年初成長率將在 5% 至 6% 之間，隨著美國併購和 IPO 活動的加速，成長率將會上升。

Finally, we expect our tax rate to be 20% for the overall company, and we forecast a 17% rate for our insurance businesses, 26% for our wealth management business and 30% for AllianceBernstein. Putting it all together, we expect 2025 EPS growth to be consistent with our 12% to 15% target.

最後，我們預期整個公司的稅率為20%，其中保險業務的稅率為17%，財富管理業務的稅率為26%，聯博的稅率為30%。綜合考慮所有因素，我們預計 2025 年每股收益成長將與我們 12% 至 15% 的目標一致。

Turning to slide 9. We will highlight Equitable's capital management program and cash flow outlook. During the quarter, we returned $335 million to shareholders including $260 million of share repurchases. For the full year, we reduced shares outstanding by 7%. We ended the year with $1.8 billion of cash and liquid assets at Holding, down from $2 billion at the end of the third quarter.

翻到第 9 張投影片。我們將重點介紹 Equitable 的資本管理計劃和現金流前景。本季度，我們向股東返還了 3.35 億美元，其中包括 2.6 億美元的股票回購。就全年而言，我們減少了 7% 的流通股。截至年底，控股公司的現金和流動資產為 18 億美元，低於第三季末的 20 億美元。

In addition to share repurchases and common dividends, we also used $174 million to purchase additional AB shares and $56 million to retire some of our Series B preferred equity. We expect our year-end 2024 combined NAIC RBC ratio to be approximately 425%, above our 375% to 400% target.

除了股票回購和普通股股息外，我們還用 1.74 億美元購買額外的 AB 股，並用 5,600 萬美元贖回部分 B 系列優先股。我們預計 2024 年底的綜合 NAIC RBC 比率約為 425%，高於我們的 375% 至 400% 的目標。

For the full year, we had cash generation of $1.5 billion, which is at the high end of our guidance range. Importantly, more than 50% of this cash flow is coming from noninsurance businesses. As Mark mentioned, we expect cash generation to increase to the $1.6 billion to $1.7 billion range in 2025, putting us on track to achieve $2 billion of annual cash generation by 2027. We also continue to take steps to optimize our balance sheet. In January, we established a new Bermuda reinsurance subsidiary.

全年我們產生的現金為 15 億美元，處於我們預期範圍的高點。重要的是，超過50%的現金流來自非保險業務。正如馬克所提到的，我們預計到 2025 年現金創造量將增加到 16 億至 17 億美元，這使我們預計在 2027 年實現每年 20 億美元的現金創造量。我們也將繼續採取措施優化我們的資產負債表。一月份，我們成立了新的百慕達再保險子公司。

The entity provides us optionality and could be used to reinsure in-force liabilities and/or new business. The Bermuda frameworks align well to our internal economic framework and will support us generating consistent cash flows to holdings. We're also making good progress on initiatives to reduce volatility and improve the returns on capital in the light business and remain on track to provide an update in the first half of 2025.

該實體為我們提供了選擇權，可用於對有效負債和/或新業務進行再保險。百慕達框架與我們的內部經濟框架非常契合，並將支持我們為控股公司產生穩定的現金流。我們在降低輕量業務波動性和提高資本回報率的措施方面也取得了良好進展，並將在 2025 年上半年提供最新進展。

Turning to slide 10. We highlight the attractive returns that we generate on capital allocated to new business. As a reminder, the value of new business, or VNB, represents the present value of the future cash flows generated by new business sales in our retirement and wealth businesses. This is the value we earn above and beyond the economic cost of capital.

翻到第 10 張投影片。我們強調分配給新業務的資本所產生的可觀回報。提醒一下，新業務價值 (VNB) 代表我們的退休和財富業務中新業務銷售產生的未來現金流量的現值。這是我們賺取的超出資本經濟成本的價值。

In 2024, we had record value of new business of approximately $775 million, despite only a modest increase in the total capital deployed for growth. This highlights how we have been able to successfully focus our business on higher-margin and less capital-intensive products.

2024 年，儘管為成長而投入的總資本僅小幅增加，但我們的新業務價值仍達到創紀錄的約 7.75 億美元。這凸顯了我們如何能夠成功地將業務重點放在利潤率更高、資本密集度更低的產品上。

In 2024, we saw credit spreads compress to historic lows, which puts pressure on margins for RILAs. While we remain disciplined in pricing new business for 15% IRRs and a narrow range of outcomes. We're able to do this because of our integrated business model, and the strong VNB we produce will drive future cash flow growth and generate value for shareholders.

2024 年，我們看到信用利差壓縮至歷史低點，這對 RILA 的利潤率造成壓力。同時，我們仍然嚴格按照 15% 的內部收益率和較窄範圍的結果為新業務定價。我們之所以能夠做到這一點，是因為我們擁有一體化的業務模式，而我們創造的強勁VNB將推動未來現金流成長並為股東創造價值。

Now let me turn the call back to Mark. Mark?

現在讓我把電話轉回給馬克。標記？

Thanks, Robert. I'm excited about the momentum that Equitable has entering 2025. We're focused on attractive growth markets, and our results demonstrate the power of our integrated business model across insurance, asset management and wealth management. We're well on track to achieve our 2027 financial targets and are confident in our ability to execute and deliver value for all our stakeholders.

謝謝，羅伯特。我對 Equitable 邁入 2025 年的勢頭感到非常興奮。我們專注於具有吸引力的成長型市場，我們的業績證明了我們的保險、資產管理和財富管理綜合業務模式的強大實力。我們預計將實現 2027 年財務目標，並且有信心我們有能力為所有利害關係人實現價值。

I'd now like to open the call to take your questions.

我現在想開始回答大家的問題。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

Ryan Krueger, KBW.

瑞安·克魯格（Ryan Krueger），KBW。

Morning. My first question was on Bermuda. Do you view it more as something to just help sustain the 60% to 70% payout ratio target as you fund higher growth in the retirement industry, or should we think of it as something that could either lead to upside to that or free up existing capital on in-force box?

早晨。我的第一個問題是關於百慕達的。您是否認為它只是在為退休產業提供更高成長資金的同時，幫助維持 60% 至 70% 的派息率目標，還是應該將其視為可以帶來上行空間或釋放現有資本的東西？

Good morning, Ryan, we're pleased to establish the Bermuda entity on January 1. As I mentioned on the call, this will continue to support the consistent cash flow and provides us optionality going forward. the optionality, meaning it can give us the ability to reinsure in-force business or support and do flow reinsurance for new business as well to sustain the growth momentum that we have and continue to achieve our free cash flows of $2 billion by 2027.

早安，瑞安，我們很高興在 1 月 1 日成立百慕達實體。正如我在電話中提到的，這將繼續支持穩定的現金流，並為我們提供未來的選擇權。可選性，意味著它可以使我們有能力對現有業務或支援進行再保險，並為新業務進行流量再保險，以維持我們現有的成長勢頭，並在 2027 年繼續實現 20 億美元的自由現金流。

So it's aligned to our strategy and allowing us to consistently generate capital to the holding company in cash. And it also gives us optionality to support future growth while maintaining our economic discipline.

因此，這符合我們的策略，並允許我們持續以現金形式為控股公司創造資本。它還為我們提供了在保持經濟紀律的同時支持未來成長的選擇權。

Got it. And then a question on AllianceBernstein. I guess as the majority shareholder, there was some discussion, I think, by -- at a prior conference about the possibility of considering a C-Corp conversion. I guess curious on how Equitable is thinking about that as the biggest shareholder company.

知道了。然後是關於 AllianceBernstein 的一個問題。我想，作為大股東，在之前的一次會議上，我們討論過考慮 C 公司轉換的可能性。我很好奇 Equitable 作為最大的股東公司是如何看待這一點的。

Thanks, Ryan. Maybe I'll ask Jackie to talk about it first from an AB perspective because that's where it starts. Jackie?

謝謝，瑞安。也許我會請 Jackie 先從 AB 的角度來談論這個問題，因為事情就是從這裡開始的。傑基？

You're on mute, Jackie.

你處於靜音狀態，傑基。

Great. Sorry about that must have been a delay. At AB, we've done extensive analysis over recent months, look at the C-Corp conversion. And honestly, our analysis indicates that AB's current structure is in the best interest of our unitholders. And at this time, we don't see any reason to adjust that.

偉大的。抱歉，一定耽誤了。在 AB，我們近幾個月進行了廣泛的分析，研究了 C-Corp 的轉換。說實話，我們的分析表明，AB 的當前結構最符合我們的基金份額持有人的利益。目前，我們認為沒有理由進行調整。

AB, as you know, is structured as a publicly traded partnership, which gives us an attractive tax structure. And if we were to change that to a C-Corp, AB would be subject to much higher tax rates, leading to significant dilution in our [EPO]

如您所知，AB 是一家公開交易的合夥企業，這為我們提供了一個具有吸引力的稅收結構。如果我們將其改為 C 公司，AB 公司的稅率將高得多，導致我們的股權被嚴重稀釋。[歐洲專利局]

It's also Important to note that our tax structure is different than many of the alternative asset managers who did convert. We currently pay a lower effective tax rate than they did pre-conversion, and we would have a much higher earnings dilution than they did. Therefore, we would need to see significant expansion in our multiple. And at this time, it's just too big a bet to make for our unitholders.

還需要注意的是，我們的稅務結構與許多已轉換的另類資產管理公司不同。我們目前支付的有效稅率比轉換前要低，而且我們的獲利稀釋度也比他們高得多。因此，我們需要看到倍數顯著擴張。而目前，這對我們的基金持有者來說，是一個過大的賭注。

And Ryan, from an AB -- EQH perspective, it's similar for AB unitholders. We don't see the value in paying the higher tax rate for our shareholders given the growth momentum we have going forward.

瑞安，從 AB 到 EQH 的角度來看，AB 單位持有者的情況也類似。考慮到我們未來的成長勢頭，我們認為為股東支付更高的稅率是沒有價值的。

Okay. Great. Yeah, thanks. That was very clear.

好的。偉大的。是的，謝謝。那是非常清楚的。

Elyse Greenspan, Wells Fargo.

富國銀行的伊莉絲‧格林斯潘 (Elyse Greenspan)。

Hi, thanks. Good morning. My first question is just looking to get more color just on protection, right? You did guide to the lower end of the range for '25. Just any color that you can provide there? And Robin, I think in the past, right, you were talking about potentially entering into reinsurance or other things of protection when the results were more volatile. I think that's still off the table at this point, but you can update us on thoughts around that as well.

嗨，謝謝。早安.我的第一個問題只是希望在保護方面獲得更多的顏色，對嗎？您確實指導了 '25 的範圍的下限。您可以提供任何顏色嗎？羅賓，我想，在過去，對吧，你談論的是當結果更加不穩定時可能進入再保險或其他保護領域。我認為目前這仍是不可能的，但你也可以向我們介紹這方面的想法。

Sure. So just taking back. Overall production earnings for the quarter were about 6% of total EQH earnings for the full year, 10%, we could see strong growth momentum, and we want to continue to invest in the retirement asset and wealth management businesses, and this doesn't offer the same attractive returns of those businesses that we have for us today.

當然。所以就收回我的話。本季的整體生產收益約佔 EQH 全年總收益的 6%，即 10%，我們可以看到強勁的成長勢頭，我們希望繼續投資於退休資產和財富管理業務，而這並不能為我們今天所擁有的業務帶來同樣有吸引力的回報。

If I take your question in two steps: first, on guidance for the full year in 2024, we achieved $230 million of earnings on a normalized basis, and that was on a relatively good year from a mortality perspective. So that's why the in-force that we have with higher face amounts, that we've seen some volatility on it. We're guiding towards the lower range of our $200 million to $300 million. So I would expect anywhere between $200 million to $250 million being a good year considering results from this year.

如果我分兩步驟來回答你的問題：首先，根據 2024 年全年的指引，我們在正常化基礎上實現了 2.3 億美元的收益，從死亡率的角度來看，這是相對較好的一年。這就是為什麼我們看到面額較高的有效債券有一定波動。我們的預期下限是 2 億到 3 億美元。因此，從今年的業績來看，我預計 2 億至 2.5 億美元之間就算是好年景了。

On the solutions that we looked at before. As you know, we started this trying to manage on volatility, and we looked at excess loss reinsurance to help mitigate that volatility, but the pricing wasn't attractive relative to the economic value that we would give up.

關於我們之前研究過的解決方案。如您所知，我們開始嘗試管理波動性，並且我們研究了超額損失再保險來幫助緩解這種波動，但相對於我們放棄的經濟價值，定價並不具有吸引力。

So that led us to look at a broader range of solutions. That goes anywhere from good expense management, which the teams are actively working on today, and that's already taken place in-force actions such as reinsurance as well. And so we're continuing to make good progress on that and we're on track to provide an update in the first half of '25.

因此，這促使我們尋找更廣泛的解決方案。這包括良好的費用管理（團隊目前正在積極致力於此），以及已經採取的有效行動（例如再保險）。因此，我們在這方面繼續取得良好進展，並預計在 2025 年上半年提供最新消息。

Thanks. So then my second question, can you provide just an update on BlackRock the LifePath Paycheck products, sorry, just kind of the outlook there and how you're thinking about kind of '25 as well as '26 targets?

謝謝。那麼我的第二個問題是，您能否提供有關貝萊德 LifePath Paycheck 產品的最新消息，抱歉，只是介紹一下那裡的前景，以及您對 25 年和 26 年目標的看法？

Sure. This is Nick. In the near term, we'd expect similar levels of inflows in '25 as we received in '24. As a reminder, in '24 BlackRock had six plans fund, and we received approximately $600 million of total flows. We don't have total visibility into the timing of those funding of those plans and flows will continue to be lumpy. I'd highlight that going forward in the longer term, we continue to see significant opportunity in the $8 trillion 401(k) market for in-plan guaranteed solutions, but it's still early days.

當然。這是尼克。短期內，我們預期25年的流入量將與24年的類似。提醒一下，24年貝萊德有六個計畫基金，我們獲得的總流量約為 6 億美元。我們不能完全清楚這些計畫的資金到位時間，資金流動仍將不穩定。我想強調的是，從長遠來看，我們將繼續看到 8 兆美元的 401（k）市場在計劃內保證解決方案方面存在巨大機遇，但現在還為時過早。

And as I previously mentioned, we're further broadening and deepening our institutional offers, with our leading partnership with an HSA provider to support their enhanced savings offers as well as our partnership with JPMorgan that expects to come out with an in-plan solution at the end of this year or early next year.

正如我之前提到的，我們正在進一步擴大和深化我們的機構服務，與 HSA 提供者建立領先的合作夥伴關係，以支持他們的增強儲蓄服務，並與摩根大通建立合作夥伴關係，預計將在今年年底或明年年初推出計劃內解決方案。

So I think our track record of innovation and the premier partnership network that we built really put us in a good position to capture demand for this. Lastly, just as a reminder, highlight that in our 2027 financial targets, we did not assume any contributions from our institutional, so this would be upside.

因此，我認為我們的創新記錄和我們建立的首要合作夥伴網絡確實使我們處於有利地位來滿足這方面的需求。最後，需要提醒的是，在我們的 2027 年財務目標中，我們沒有假設機構做出任何貢獻，因此這將是有利的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Suneet Kamath, Jefferies.

蘇尼特·卡馬斯（Suneet Kamath），傑富瑞（Jefferies）。

Thanks. Good morning. I wanted to start on the annuity business. So we've seen strong nominal sales for both you and the industry for the past couple of years, but we've also seen a pretty significant tailwind from the market that's presumably helping fund some of those nominal sales. So I guess the question is, do you have any data that looks at -- are you reaching more people? Are you selling more individual contracts, just so we can kind of separate growth from the market versus growth from that's truly organic.

謝謝。早安.我想開始從事年金業務。因此，我們看到過去幾年您和整個行業的名義銷售都表現強勁，但我們也看到市場出現了相當大的順風，這可能有助於為部分名義銷售提供資金。所以我想問題是，您是否有任何數據可以表明——您是否接觸到了更多的人？您是否會出售更多個人合同，這樣我們就可以將市場成長與真正有機的成長區分開來。

Great. Thanks, Suneet. As you highlighted, we are seeing strong growth with our record $7 billion in net flows. The short answer to your question is this is coming from both fronts. New policy counts increased roughly 15% in 2024, and we're also benefiting from higher account balances with annual policy size up a little bit over 13% in the same period.

偉大的。謝謝，Suneet。正如您所強調的，我們的淨流量達到了創紀錄的 70 億美元，成長強勁。對你的問題的簡短回答是，這是從兩個方面來的。2024 年，新保單數量將增加約 15%，同時我們也受惠於更高的帳戶餘額，同期年度保單規模將成長略高於 13%。

As [Suruli] highlighted, there's roughly $600 billion of flows coming out of 401(k)s in 2024, and these are going into new retirement solutions and wealth management offers. We remain bullish about the retirement market. We've doubled volumes with record sales over the last three years. And I think what's key is our privileged distribution network, both Equitable advisors and in third party with the trusted relationships we've built over the last decade are allowing us to access this need.

正如 [Suruli] 所強調的那樣，到 2024 年，401(k) 計劃中的資金流將達到約 6000 億美元，這些資金將用於新的退休解決方案和財富管理產品。我們仍然對退休市場持樂觀態度。過去三年來，我們的銷量翻了一番，創下了歷史新高。我認為關鍵在於我們的特權分銷網絡，包括公平顧問和第三方，以及我們在過去十年中建立的信任關係，使我們能夠滿足這一需求。

Suneet, it's Mark. If I could just add a couple of things just at the strategic level. I mean you're right, there has been strong flows into the annuity market. It used to run at $250 billion a year. Last year, it's $420 billion. You're absolutely right as well. It's been favorable tailwinds for that. Obviously, annuity sales do better when interest rates are higher, for example. But to Nick's point, the fundamentals driving the need for annuities are not going away. 4.1 million Americans are hitting age 65 today.

Suneet，我是馬克。如果我可以在策略層面補充幾點的話。我的意思是，你說得對，有大量資金流入年金市場。其年營運規模曾經達到 2,500 億美元。去年，這一數字為 4200 億美元。你也完全正確。這對此是有利的順風。顯然，當利率較高時，年金銷售表現會更好。但正如尼克所說，推動年金需求的基本因素不會消失。如今，有 410 萬美國人年齡達到 65 歲。

As Nick said, the size of the 401(k) market, $7 trillion there, that will move from accumulation into decumulation and naturally. And then the regulatory support has been very favorable for the industry where you see strong bipartisan support for Secure Act, et cetera. So yes, it does fluctuate with some of the interest rates and equity markets, but the tide is very much in favor of the industry. It's a very good market to be in.

正如尼克所說，401（k）市場的規模為 7 兆美元，將從積累轉向減少積累，這是自然的。然後監管支持對該行業非常有利，你可以看到兩黨對《安全法案》等的大力支持。所以是的，它確實會隨著一些利率和股票市場而波動，但趨勢非常有利於該行業。這是一個非常好的市場。

Got it. Understood. And then my second is for Robin. So $1.8 billion of holdco cash, so $1.3 billion of that is above your target. Your RBC is now well above your target. You have Bermuda now. It just seems like there's a tremendous amount of capital flexibility. So I guess at what point do you feel comfortable drawing down that $1.3 billion of excess?

知道了。明白了。我的第二個願望是獻給羅賓。因此，控股公司現金為 18 億美元，其中 13 億美元高於您的目標。您的 RBC 現在遠高於您的目標。現在你擁有了百慕達。看上去好像存在著巨大的資本彈性。那我猜什麼時候你會覺得提取這 13 億美元的超額資金比較舒服呢？

Thank you, Suneet. As you mentioned, we feel good about our strong capital position. It gives us confident that we'll be able to capitalize on this attractive growth opportunity that we see in the US that Nick and Mark just mentioned and achieve our 60% to 70% payout ratio. Keep in mind, in 2024, we funded record levels of individual retirement new business and supported the $600 million of initial inflows from the BlackRock product, and at the same time, we delivered on the 65% of our payout ratio at the midpoint of our range.

謝謝你，Suneet。正如您所說，我們對我們強大的資本狀況感到滿意。這使我們有信心，我們將能夠利用尼克和馬克剛才提到的美國這一誘人的成長機會，實現 60% 至 70% 的派息率。請記住，2024 年，我們為創紀錄水平的個人退休新業務提供了資金，並支持了貝萊德產品的 6 億美元初始流入，同時，我們實現了範圍中點的 65% 的派息率。

Our holdco cash will fluctuate on a quarterly basis depending on the timing of when we receive dividends from the subsidiaries, in the quarter, we received good upstream dividends from asset wealth management and our insurance businesses of over $500 million. So you're always going to see some fluctuation on the quarterly holdco cash.

我們的控股公司現金將根據我們從子公司獲得股息的時間按季度波動，本季度，我們從資產財富管理和保險業務中獲得了超過 5 億美元的良好上游股息。因此，您總是會看到季度控股公司現金出現一些波動。

Now we do we expect to reduce the current excess cash pushing toward the target levels, but we're cognizant that market and the macro environment can change quickly. So we'd rather do this in a disciplined way year-over-year as opposed to a onetime extraordinary dividend or accelerated share repurchase. So expect us to remain disciplined and expect us to find the best uses for use of those cash flows and expect it to continue to grow the business and deliver share return for shareholders.

現在我們確實希望減少當前的過剩現金，以達到目標水平，但我們認識到市場和宏觀環境可能會迅速變化。因此，我們寧願逐年以有紀律的方式進行這項工作，而不是一次性特別股利或加速股票回購。因此，希望我們保持紀律，希望我們找到利用這些現金流的最佳用途，並希望它繼續發展業務並為股東帶來股票回報。

Great. Thanks, Robin.

偉大的。謝謝，羅賓。

Thomas Gallagher, Evercore.

托馬斯·加拉格爾，Evercore。

Thanks. Robin, I just wanted to ask a kind of broader question, what are the range of things you're really considering as you're evaluating protection, protection business? And is it purely, on one hand, I'm thinking it could be as simple as an Equitable funded Bermuda reinsurance transaction of some sort.

謝謝。羅賓，我只是想問一個更廣泛的問題，當你評估保護、保護業務時，你真正考慮的事情有哪些？一方面，我認為它可以簡單到就像某種由 Equitable 資助的百慕達再保險交易。

On the other side of things, are you considering like a full divestiture this business through a third-party transaction because there's a lot beyond mortality, you also have like a group benefits platform in there. I just want to get a sense for are we -- are you considering the full range of options? Or is it something that's much more specific just on capital efficiency and limiting mortality volatility. Can you help unpack that?

另一方面，您是否考慮透過第三方交易完全剝離這項業務，因為除了死亡率之外，還有很多其他業務，例如團體福利平台。我只是想知道我們是否——您是否考慮過所有的選擇？或者它只是關於資本效率和限制死亡率波動的更具體事情。你能幫忙解開它嗎？

Sure, Tom. As I mentioned, we're going to provide an update in the first half of 2025. But let me break it out in components of what we are doing.

當然，湯姆。正如我所提到的，我們將在 2025 年上半年提供更新。但是，讓我將其分解成我們正在做的事情的各個部分。

First is good old expense management. We have a business that has a low return on capital, and we have to improve the returns on it. And the team is actively taking action to improve the expense based on that to support where we are in terms of the sales and the revenue that we're getting across it. Second, as you mentioned, we did set up the Bermuda entity, and that provides us options that we can explore to improve returns on capital.

首先是傳統的良好的費用管理。我們的業務資本報酬率較低，我們必須提高其報酬率。而團隊正在積極採取行動，在此基礎上改善費用，以支持我們的銷售和收入現狀。第二，正如您所說，我們確實成立了百慕達實體，這為我們提供了可以探索的提高資本回報率的選擇。

And third, we will leverage intend third-party reinsurance to unlock capital and value of our in-force block. So we're looking at all levers, and we'll decide on what's best for shareholders as a result but expect an update in the first half of the year and expect us going forward that we're going to continue to focus on growth of retirement wealth and asset management.

第三，我們將利用第三方再保險來釋放我們現有保險的資本和價值。因此，我們正在考慮所有的槓桿，並最終決定什麼對股東最有利，但預計今年上半年會有一個更新，並預計我們未來將繼續專注於退休財富和資產管理的成長。

Okay. That's helpful. And then I just wanted to come back to RILA market and competition and where you think everything is headed here? Because obviously, you've had good organic growth in RILA. There's certainly speculation that one of your big RILA competitors might be changing hands and if it ended up being transferred to a more aggressive alternative competitor.

好的。這很有幫助。然後我只想回到 RILA 市場和競爭，您認為一切將走向何方？因為很明顯，RILA 實現了良好的有機成長。當然，有人猜測，RILA 的其中一個大競爭對手可能會易手，而且最終會被轉讓給更具競爭力的替代競爭對手。

I think there's some concern that, that market could come under some pressure pricing-wise, competition wise. So anyway, just curious what you think about that generally? And do you think it's still a big enough pool where you're not overly worried about that dynamic?

我認為有人擔心該市場在定價和競爭方面可能會面臨一些壓力。所以無論如何，只是好奇你對此整體有何看法？您是否認為這個池子仍然足夠大，以至於您不需要過分擔心這種動態？

Yeah. This is Nick. We're still bullish on the RILA market and given the structural components that Mark spoke to, believe we're still in the relatively early to mid-innings of the growth of this market, given the demographics, given the favorable legislation and given the money in motion.

是的。這是尼克。我們仍然看好 RILA 市場，並考慮到馬克談到的結構性組成部分、人口結構、有利的立法和資金流動，我們相信我們仍處於這個市場成長的相對早期到中期階段。

In terms of competitive activity out there to date, net-net, it's been positive and has grown the size of the pie. We benefited from that as the market leader. This year, sales were up roughly 30% and RILA, our LIMRA projects that the market will continue to grow at 10% a year. We are very aware of competitive trends in pricing. Look, we've seen this before as you get a new entrant, there does tend to be this period of aggressive teaser pricing. We've seen this, and it's temporary and it's not sustainable.

就迄今為止的競爭活動而言，總體而言，它是積極的，並且已經擴大了份額。身為市場領導者，我們從中受益匪淺。今年，銷售額成長了約 30%，我們的 LIMRA RILA 預測市場將繼續以每年 10% 的速度成長。我們非常了解定價的競爭趨勢。你看，我們以前就看到過這種情況，當有新進入者時，往往會出現這種激進的誘惑定價時期。我們已經看到了這一點，這是暫時的，是不可持續的。

Obviously, our RILA margins on an absolute level have come down since we were the pioneer in the market over a decade ago, but we're still generating very attractive returns on new business and continue to achieve our targeted 15% IRRs.

顯然，自從十多年前我們成為市場先驅以來，我們的 RILA 利潤率在絕對水平上已經下降，但我們仍然在新業務上產生非常有吸引力的回報，並繼續實現 15% 的內部收益率目標。

I would emphasize, we focus on value and remain disciplined in our cap setting. And that's allowed us to continue to generate the record sales but also record VNB that we're seeing out there. So looking forward, we continue to be excited about the market. I think any noise with competitors focuses people on who's been a consistent provider and is a stable source to provide this value proposition to their consumers and their advisors when they needed those.

我想強調的是，我們注重價值並在上限設定方面保持紀律。這不僅使我們能夠繼續創造銷售記錄，而且還能創下 VNB 記錄。展望未來，我們將繼續對市場感到興奮。我認為，任何有關競爭對手的噪音都會讓人們關注誰是一致的供應商，誰是穩定的來源，在消費者和顧問需要時為他們提供這一價值主張。

Tom, it's Mark. If I could just add on to what Nick said there, which is absolutely right. I think, obviously, we always have to stay alert to competitive pressures in these types of markets, and we faced it before. We see some of the PE backed insurers already in the market. So it wouldn't be new to us if somebody else bought a platform.

湯姆，我是馬克。如果我可以補充一下尼克所說的話，那是完全正確的。我認為，顯然，我們必須始終對此類市場中的競爭壓力保持警惕，而我們以前也面臨過這種情況。我們看到一些由私募股權支持的保險公司已經進入市場。因此，如果其他人購買了平台，這對我們來說並不是什麼新鮮事。

But I think one of the things we'd point to is on our distribution model -- we don't just rely on wirehouses or third parties we have -- led advisors. It's a strong, stable source of revenue flows for us. And that's competitive advantage we have.

但我認為我們要指出的一點是我們的分銷模式——我們不僅僅依賴我們擁有的大型經紀公司或第三方顧問。這是我們強大而穩定的收入來源。這就是我們的競爭優勢。

And then secondly, I think our business model, Tom, if you if new entrants come in with more aggressive asset-backed offerings to the marketplace, Obviously, it's hugely in our advantage that we have AB as well. We are able to play in the private credit, private marketplace as well.

其次，湯姆，我認為我們的商業模式，如果新進業者向市場提供更積極的資產支持產品，那麼顯然，擁有 AB 對我們非常有利。我們也能夠在私人信貸和私人市場中發揮作用。

So yes, we have to be alert to it. As Nick quite rightly said, we price on a diligent basis. But the thing I'd point to for Equitable is the uniqueness of our distribution and the uniqueness of the business model will allow us to be competitive for longer than others who are just product manufacturers.

所以是的，我們必須對此保持警惕。正如尼克所說，我們的定價是建立在審慎的基礎上的。但我想指出的是，Equitable 的獨特分銷方式和獨特的商業模式將使我們比其他單純的產品製造商保持更長時間的競爭力。

Got it. Thanks, guys.

知道了。謝謝大家。

Alex Scott with Barclays.

巴克萊銀行的亞歷克斯·斯科特 (Alex Scott)。

Hey, good morning. First one I had for you is on sort of that [novation] process that I think you all were going through I think there were a couple of different steps to it possibly. But any update that you can provide on how the regulatory approvals are going to that?

嘿，早安。我想跟大家介紹的第一個問題是，你們都在經歷的那個[債務更新]過程，我認為它可能有幾個不同的步驟。但是您能提供有關監管部門批准進展的最新資訊嗎？

Sure, Al. Thank you. First off, we're on track for everything that we mentioned last year regarding novation, loss card work from our team to get there. There are two elements of it. We completed in January, our novation to Venerable. That was a big leap. We moved almost 30% to 40% of our current in-force to Venerable, that helps reduce some of the counterparty credit that we hold economically. And so that was completed.

當然，艾爾。謝謝。首先，我們正在按計劃完成去年提到的有關債務更新、團隊損失卡工作等所有工作。它包含兩個要素。我們於一月完成了對 Venerable 的轉讓。這是一個巨大的飛躍。我們將目前約 30% 至 40% 的有效員工轉移到 Venerable，這有助於減少我們在經濟上持有的部分交易對手信貸。這樣就完成了。

The second step is we're moving business from our New York entity that was already reinsured but now we're going to move it and innovate it to Arizona, that's on track that will complete this year as well. And so we have all the approvals we need. It's just state-by-state mailing to different rules by state. So we'll have three ways and we're on track to complete this.

第二步是我們將業務從已經再保險的紐約實體轉移，但現在我們要將其轉移並創新到亞利桑那州，這項工作正在按計劃進行，也將於今年完成。因此我們已經獲得了所需的所有批准。只是各州的郵寄規則不同而已。因此，我們有三種方法可以完成這個目標。

Got it. That's very helpful. And then on the Bermuda entity that you set up. Can you help us think through the amount of capital that was initially seeded with? And was that in 2024? I assume the '24 or '25 cash flow sort of includes the netting of having to supply that capital. So I'm just looking to understand sort of if that's more onetime item, then maybe I could think about cash flow, excluding that could be at a slightly higher level.

知道了。這非常有幫助。然後是您設立的百慕達實體。您能幫我們想想最初投入的資金量是多少嗎？那是在 2024 年嗎？我認為 24 年或 25 年的現金流應該包括提供該資本的淨額。所以我只是想了解這是否是一次性項目，那麼也許我可以考慮現金流，排除這可能會處於略高的水平。

Sure. So if you look in 2024, we're at the higher end of our guidance that we gave to the market at $1.5 billion. That includes some funding of the Bermuda entity already. So that's already completed, and then we'll continue to be on track to achieve the higher end of our guidance towards the $2 billion by 2027. And then that's all net of any expectations that we have in conditions in Bermuda.

當然。因此，如果展望 2024 年，我們給出的市場預期上限為 15 億美元。其中包括已向百慕達實體提供的一些資金。這已經完成了，然後我們將繼續朝著 2027 年實現 20 億美元的更高預期目標邁進。這就是我們對百慕達情況的所有預期。

Got it. Okay. Thank you.

知道了。好的。謝謝。

Jimmy Bhullar, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的 Jimmy Bhullar。

Hi, good morning. I had a question on your group retirement business. And if you look at flows there, they've been negative in the past few years. And normally, you'd think that, that business is potentially growing given your presence in the teachers market.

嗨，早安。我對您的團體退休業務有一個疑問。如果你看看那裡的資金流動情況，你會發現過去幾年資金流動一直是負值。通常，您會認為，鑑於您在教師市場中的存在，該業務具有成長的潛力。

So -- and obviously, there's a number of different products and different things going on in each of those product lines. But if you could talk about the trends in that business by line and overall, just so we get better idea of the growth trajectory of that business going forward and also address what's been causing the negative flows.

所以 — — 顯然，每個產品線都有許多不同的產品，而且有不同的事情發生。但是，如果您可以逐條和總體地談論該業務的趨勢，這樣我們就能更好地了解該業務未來的成長軌跡，並解決導致負面流量的原因。

Sure. This is Nick. Look, we like where we play in the group retirement business as a steady source of growth going forward. As a reminder, it has three components: the tax exempt, which is the teachers business you talked about, our corporate business and then our new institutional offerings. In short, sort of our tax exempt and institutional remains strong, and we're seeing positive flows for the year. And the outflows are coming from the legacy corporate lower-margin segments.

當然。這是尼克。你看，我們喜歡在團體退休業務中扮演的角色，將其作為未來穩定的成長來源。提醒一下，它有三個部分：免稅，也就是您談到的教師業務，我們的企業業務，以及我們的新機構產品。簡而言之，我們的免稅和製度仍然強勁，而且我們看到今年的積極流動。資金流出主要來自傳統企業利潤率較低的部門。

Adding a little bit more our color tax exempt has been -- was positive for the full year. And of $77 million, and we expect to continue to see, I would say, steady growth. This is where we have 1,000 dedicated retirement benefit advisors and 9,000 schools that are sitting down with teachers talking about the benefits of a supplemental retirement plan on top of their pensions, and we think that's durable.

再加上我們的彩色稅豁免，對全年來說都是有好處的。達到 7700 萬美元，而且我們預計將繼續看到穩定成長。我們有 1,000 名專門的退休福利顧問和 9,000 所學校與教師們坐下來討論在退休金之外補充退休計劃的好處，我們認為這是持久的。

Institutional, I highlighted that before. These are new efforts in plan or partnership with HSA. Last year, we received roughly $600 million, and we expect similar type post. We've already received $200 million in our partnership with our HSA offering.

機構，我之前強調過這一點。這些是與 HSA 計劃或合作的新舉措。去年，我們收到了約 6 億美元的捐款，預計也會收到類似捐款。我們已透過 HSA 產品合作獲得了 2 億美元的資金。

In the corporate sales were up about 14% for the year. We did see outflows continuing as people as part of the trend move to the decumulation phase. We've been more episodic historically in our participation, but we're making concerted efforts there to improve flows. And I highlighted the launch of our new pooled employer program, which aligns well with our Equitable advisor distribution footprint of helping small businesses.

全年企業銷售額成長約 14%。我們確實看到資金外流持續，因為人們作為趨勢的一部分進入了去累積階段。從歷史上看，我們的參與比較零散，但我們正在齊心協力改善流程。我重點介紹了我們新推出的聯合雇主計劃，這與我們幫助小型企業的公平顧問分銷足跡非常吻合。

The last comment I would just make is within corporate the outflows about 20% of those flows were participant distributions using the product as intended. Of the remaining, about 50% of those flows are being captured in other individual or wealth management solutions. So we've got a well-diversified portfolio and would expect that to continue to deliver strong returns.

我最後要說的是，在公司內部，大約 20% 的資金流出是按照預期使用產品的參與者分配。剩餘的資金中約有 50% 由其他個人或財富管理解決方案所捕獲。因此，我們擁有多元化的投資組合，並有望繼續帶來強勁的回報。

Thanks. And Robin, on your overall tax rate for the quarter, it seems low in a number of businesses. So what drove that? And what's your expectation going forward?

謝謝。羅賓，就本季的整體稅率而言，許多企業的稅率似乎都很低。那麼，是什麼導致了這現象呢？您對未來有何期望？

Hi, Jammi. We did receive favorable audit results from previous returns. So that helps the tax rate this year. Going forward, we've given guide. I mean, domain increases in AB, as AB continue to generate revenue more states, that forth is state tax and then we expect the insurance tax rate to normalize as well going forward, as I mentioned earlier.

你好，傑米。我們確實從先前的回報中獲得了有利的審計結果。這有助於今年的稅率。展望未來，我們已經給了指南。我的意思是，隨著 AB 繼續為更多州創造收入，AB 的網域增加，這就是州稅，然後我們預計保險稅率也會逐漸正常化，正如我之前提到的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Jack Matten, BMO Capital Markets.

傑克·馬滕 (Jack Matten)，BMO 資本市場。

Hi, good morning. Just maybe a question on the value of new business disclosure, a pretty nice uptick in 2024. I guess can you talk a little bit more about what drove that in your outlook for 2025 and maybe directionally where you see IRRs trending versus the 15%-plus level. I know providing you called out competition and tighter spreads impacting potentially those returns. So just any other moving pieces that you would call out?

嗨，早安。也許只是關於新業務揭露價值的一個問題，到 2024 年將出現相當不錯的成長。我想您能否再多談一談推動 2025 年展望的因素，以及您認為 IRR 與 15% 以上水準相比的發展方向。我知道，只要你提出競爭，利差縮小就可能影響這些報酬。那麼還有其他您要指出的移動部件嗎？

Sure. So Jack, as Nick and Mark mentioned, we've seen tremendous growth in the individual retirement business this year. And that's really the primary driver of the strong VNB as we move into more capital-light products like RILA, the floating rate VA. That enables us to deploy capital but at an efficient rate and continue to have record levels of value of new business.

當然。傑克，正如尼克和馬克所提到的，我們今年看到個人退休業務取得了巨大的成長。當我們轉向更多輕資本產品（如浮動利率 VA，RILA）時，這實際上是強勁 VNB 的主要驅動力。這使我們能夠以高效的速度部署資本，並繼續保持創紀錄的新業務價值水準。

Obviously, higher interest rates help us in this type of environment that makes our products more competitive, but it also shows you we're very disciplined in maintaining margins when we can as we write new business. This is just really the reflection of our business model, distribution through Equitable advisors asset management yields generated by AllianceBernstein and disciplined product manufacturing in our retirement business. So overall, it's really the retirement business that's driving the exceptional growth here.

顯然，在這種環境下，更高的利率對我們有幫助，使我們的產品更具競爭力，但它也表明，我們在開展新業務時非常自律地保持利潤率。這實際上只是我們商業模式的反映，透過 AllianceBernstein 產生的 Equitable 顧問資產管理收益進行分配，以及在我們的退休業務中進行嚴格的產品製造。因此整體而言，真正推動這裡卓越成長的是退休業務。

Great. Thank you. And then one on Wealth Management. You're already getting pretty close to the earnings target you set for 2027. It seems like the underlying kind of growth drivers in advisor and most -- cleaner count are pretty robust. So just wondering if you're now expecting to hit that target maybe even as soon as this year, just how you see productivity growth and margin improvement trending in 2025?

偉大的。謝謝。接下來是財富管理。您已經非常接近您設定的 2027 年獲利目標了。看起來顧問和大多數清潔工數量的潛在成長動力相當強勁。所以我想知道您是否預計最早在今年就能實現這一目標，您認為 2025 年生產力成長和利潤率提高的趨勢如何？

Sure. This is Nick. As you highlighted, we're seeing strong momentum. $4 billion of advisory net flows for the year, a 7% organic growth rate and good profitability. Full year earnings close to $184 million. We're continuing to invest in areas like our award-winning Columbia Holistic Life Planning Training Program and new areas like Experience Hires, which we think will translate into future margin expansion as the business scales.

當然。這是尼克。正如您所強調的，我們看到了強勁的勢頭。全年諮詢淨流量40億美元，有機成長率7%，獲利能力良好。全年獲利接近1.84億美元。我們將繼續投資於我們屢獲殊榮的哥倫比亞整體生活規劃培訓計劃等領域以及經驗招聘等新領域，我們認為隨著業務規模的擴大，這些領域將轉化為未來利潤的擴大。

Very encouraged by leading indicators. advisor productivity was up 10%. And overall head count up 4% wealth planner, which are 3 times more productive is now roughly 825 advisors. So we think we bring a distinctive edge given our people or planning in our platform. It puts us ahead of plan to reach $200 million. And once we get there, we'll reassess.

領先指標令我們備受鼓舞。顧問的生產效率提高了10％。財富規劃師的總體人數增加了 4%，生產力提高了 3 倍，目前約有 825 名顧問。因此，我們認為，憑藉我們平台的人員或規劃，我們帶來了獨特的優勢。這使我們提前實現了 2 億美元的計劃。一旦我們到達那裡，我們會重新評估。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Mark Hughes, Truist Securities.

馬克·休斯，Truist Securities。

Yeah. Thank you. Good morning. What should we think about net flows in the management business? How does it look in the near term? And what's the early read on 2025?

是的。謝謝。早安.我們該如何看待管理業務中的淨流量？近期情況如何？那麼 2025 年的早期預測是多少呢？

Hi, Mark, it's Onur. Let me take that question. We had a positive start to the year. It's too early to project the full year, but we feel very confident about the strength of our platform. If you reflect on '24, it was our second-best sales year. If you look at our global retail platform, we almost had the best year ever by achieving sales of $100 billion almost, and that is really diversified across the US, Europe, Asia and Latin America.

你好，馬克，我是奧努爾。請讓我來回答這個問題。我們今年有一個好的開始。現在預測全年的情況還為時過早，但我們對我們平台的實力非常有信心。如果回顧 24 年，你會發現這是我們銷售業績第二好的一年。如果你看看我們的全球零售平台，我們幾乎迎來了有史以來最好的一年，實現了近 1000 億美元的銷售額，而且我們的業務遍布美國、歐洲、亞洲和拉丁美洲。

If I look at the early trend in the year, the things that give me a lot of positive confidence is our US retail business continues to have good success, we are continuing to see strong momentum in particular tax exempt fixed income area, which is a strength area for us. We are a market leader with many of the strong distribution partners. Japan continued its strengths. We have a very strong distribution platform in Japan, very diverse with 50-plus partners. That is off to a very good start.

如果我看一下今年年初的趨勢，讓我非常有信心的是我們的美國零售業務繼續取得良好的成功，我們繼續看到強勁的發展勢頭，特別是免稅固定收益領域，這是我們的強項。我們是市場領導者，擁有許多強大的經銷合作夥伴。日本繼續保持其強勢。我們在日本擁有非常強大的經銷平台，擁有超過 50 個合作夥伴，業務範圍十分多元化。這是一個非常好的開始。

And then finally, I'm very encouraged by some of the progress we are making in insurance as Mark and others have commented in terms of our progress there, whether it's RGA as well as other wins with other third-party insurance clients on top of equitable strong growth momentum with annuities and other businesses.

最後，正如馬克和其他人對我們在保險領域取得的進展所評論的那樣，我對我們在保險領域取得的一些進展感到非常鼓舞，無論是RGA還是與其他第三方保險客戶的其他勝利，以及年金和其他業務的強勁增長勢頭。

Obviously, we need to always be mindful of the risks. Equities have been challenged for us in '24. Institutional, particularly was the weak area. We have a lower AUM base in terms of at-risk assets in institutional equities. But definitely, that will likely remain under pressure. So overall, positive outlook. But as we have seen in the last 10 days in the market, there's a lot of market uncertainty. We will be one of the stronger houses in the market, but we expect volatility as well.

顯然，我們需要時時警惕風險。'24 年，我們的股票受到了挑戰。制度，尤其是薄弱環節。就機構股票風險資產而言，我們的 AUM 基數較低。但可以肯定的是，這一趨勢仍將面臨壓力。因此整體而言，前景樂觀。但正如我們過去 10 天在市場上看到的那樣，市場存在著許多不確定性。我們將成為市場上實力較強的公司之一，但我們也預期會出現波動。

Thank you for that. And then, Robin, you talked about the ultra-turn maybe starting in the 5% to 6% range before grading up. Is that going to progress through the year? Is there any reason to think 2Q couldn't be within the 8% to 12% range do you have visibility for that?

謝謝你。然後，羅賓，您談到超級轉彎可能從 5％ 到 6％ 的範圍開始，然後再逐步上升。這一進程會持續一年嗎？有什麼理由認為第二季的成長不可能在 8% 到 12% 的範圍內？

Sure, Mark. We'll certainly get guidance throughout the year as we get more information. Currently, where we sit, we think that 5% range is probably the right number for the first quarter. Obviously, we expect and everything that we hear is active M&A and IPO market as we go into the year, and that will help certainly help the private equity alternative returns. So we'd expect in the full year that we've achieved that 8% to 10% at lower end of that guidance range that we've given, and that will progress naturally at the year.

當然，馬克。隨著我們獲得更多信息，我們肯定會全年得到指導。目前，我們認為 5% 的範圍可能是第一季的正確數字。顯然，我們預期，隨著新年的到來，我們所聽到的都是活躍的併購和 IPO 市場，這肯定有助於私募股權另類回報。因此，我們預計全年我們將實現給出的指導範圍的低端 8% 到 10%，並且這一目標將在今年自然實現。

Appreciate that. Thank you.

非常感謝。謝謝。

[Michael Ward] UBS.

[麥可沃德] 瑞銀。

Thanks, guys. Good morning. Most of my questions have been answered, but maybe just on the decumulation theme and thinking about the wealth business, specifically solid momentum, of course. Just wondering if that's a segment that you might ever consider as an investment area inorganically like a bolt-on just to turbocharge that growth and take some share of the decumulation across the industry?

謝謝大家。早安.我的大部分問題都已得到解答，但也許只是關於累積的主題以及對財富業務的思考，當然特別是穩固的勢頭。只是想知道，您是否會將這個部分視為一個無機投資領域，就像一個附加物，只是為了加速成長並在整個行業中佔據一定的份額？

Yeah. As Mark and Nick mentioned the retirement opportunity is we're in the early innings here, 4 million Americans retiring every day, $7 trillion 401(k) market that needs to provide decumulation solutions. So we're very bullish on this. As Nick mentioned earlier, it's not in our 2027 target. But we expect it to have an impact both to 2027 and be a big part of our growth strategy overall.

是的。正如馬克和尼克所提到的，我們正處於退休機會的早期階段，每天有 400 萬美國人退休，7 兆美元的 401（k）市場需要提供退休金解決方案。因此我們對此非常看好。正如尼克之前提到的，這不在我們的 2027 年目標之內。但我們預計它將對 2027 年產生影響，並成為我們整體成長策略的重要組成部分。

From an M&A standpoint, on it, our M&A strategy is very clear. We're focused on growing the strategy of retirement, asset and wealth management where we want to grow and provide scale is within the wealth management place and private credit markets, private credits, as you know, an acquisition like CarVal, quite well. It allows us to grow private credit capabilities, leveraging for our retirement products, going forward. So we're quite disciplined in M&A, and we'll continue to focus on areas where we feel we could provide shareholder value.

從併購的角度來看，我們的併購策略非常明確。我們專注於發展退休、資產和財富管理策略，我們希望在財富管理領域和私人信貸市場中實現成長並提供規模，私人信貸，如你所知，像 CarVal 這樣的收購，效果相當不錯。它使我們能夠增強私人信貸能力，並利用我們的退休產品向前發展。因此，我們在併購方面非常嚴謹，我們將繼續專注於我們認為可以為股東帶來價值的領域。

And maybe just to add on that specifically on wealth management. We continue to look at a disciplined standpoint at properties, but we're focusing on Exp Hires. That's where we see as we've gone out with a new segment that are planning, and our platforms are resonating out there. And so it's at the small end right now where we see attractive returns.

或許只是想特別補充財富管理方面的內容。我們將繼續以嚴謹的立場看待房地產，但我們的重點是經驗租賃 (Exp Hires)。這就是我們所看到的，我們已經推出了一個正在規劃中的新領域，我們的平台正在產生共鳴。因此，目前我們看到的是小額投資的可觀回報。

Thank you, guys.

謝謝你們。

There's no further questions at this time. This concludes the meeting. Thank you all for joining. You may now disconnect.

目前沒有其他問題。會議到此結束。感謝大家的加入。您現在可以斷開連線。