Epam Systems Inc (EPAM) 2023 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the EPAM Systems Second Quarter 2023 Earnings Conference Call.

美好的一天，感謝您的支持。歡迎參加 EPAM Systems 2023 年第二季財報電話會議。

(Operator Instructions) Please be advised, this conference is being recorded. And I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, David Straube, Head of Investor Relations. Sir, please go ahead.

（操作員指示）請注意，本次會議正在錄製中。現在我想將會議交給今天的發言人、投資者關係主管 David Straube。先生，請繼續。

Thank you, operator, and good morning, everyone. By now, you should have received a copy of the earnings release for the company's second quarter 2023 results. If you have not, a copy is available on epam.com in the Investors section. With me on today's call are Arkadiy Dobkin, CEO and President; and Jason Peterson, Chief Financial Officer.

謝謝接線員，大家早安。到目前為止，您應該已經收到了該公司 2023 年第二季業績的收益發布副本。如果您還沒有，可以在 epam.com 的「投資者」部分取得副本。與我一起參加今天電話會議的有執行長兼總裁 Arkadiy Dobkin；和財務長傑森彼得森。

I'd like to remind those listening to some of our comments made on today's call may contain forward-looking statements. These statements are subject to risks and uncertainties as described in the company's earnings release and SEC filings. Additionally, all references to reported results that are non-GAAP measures have been reconciled to the comparable GAAP measures and are available in our quarterly earnings materials located in the Investors section of our website.

我想提醒那些聆聽我們在今天電話會議上發表的一些評論的人可能包含前瞻性陳述。這些聲明受到公司收益發布和 SEC 文件中所述的風險和不確定性的影響。此外，所有對非公認會計準則衡量標準的報告結果的引用均已與可比較的公認會計準則衡量標準進行了調整，並可在我們網站投資者部分的季度收益材料中找到。

With that said, I'll now turn the call over to Ark.

話雖如此，我現在將把電話轉給 Ark。

Thank you, David, and good morning, everyone. Before I get into results of our second quarter, I would like to spend a few minutes on the mid-quarter update we provided in June. As I shared it in my prepared remarks, the broader concerns over the economy led to a shift in demand dynamics for our sector. For EPAM, the shift has been much more pronounced due to the geopolitical impact on our delivery centers and our focus on the build and digital product engineering segments of the market, which represents about 80%, 85% of our engagement portfolio.

謝謝大衛，大家早安。在介紹第二季的業績之前，我想花幾分鐘時間介紹我們 6 月提供的季度中期更新情況。正如我在準備好的演講中分享的那樣，對經濟的更廣泛擔憂導致了我們行業的需求動態發生了變化。對於 EPAM 來說，由於地緣政治對我們的交付中心的影響以及我們對市場構建和數位產品工程領域的關注（約占我們業務組合的 80%、85%），這種轉變更加明顯。

This was especially evident in the technology vertical, which continues to be impacted by the pullback and spend after years of strong investments in digital and product development efforts, while being spread broader across other industry segments as well. Over the last quarters, we have also seen this impact in some of our largest clients, as they have [held back] for direct spending from new build programs to the economic conditions and caution in their businesses. This factor has contributed to a high percentage of our shortfall over the first half of 2023.

這在技術垂直領域尤其明顯，經過多年對數位和產品開發工作的大力投資，技術垂直領域繼續受到撤回和支出的影響，同時也更廣泛地分佈在其他行業領域。在過去的幾個季度中，我們在一些最大的客戶中也看到了這種影響，因為他們因經濟狀況和業務謹慎而[抑制]了新建項目的直接支出。這項因素導致我們 2023 年上半年的缺口很大一部分。

Now I'll switch to Q3 and the rest of 2023. While we are starting to see a few encouraging signs, we'll share more on that in a minute. Today, I would state that we expect still, based on the current level of unpredictability, a negative dynamic to continue into the second half of 2023, but at a lower level than we saw in the first half of this year.

現在我將轉向第三季和 2023 年剩餘時間。今天，我想說的是，根據目前的不可預測性水平，我們預計負面動態將持續到 2023 年下半年，但水準低於今年上半年。

With that, I would like to state that while we do understand that this is a difficult period for us and for the sector more broadly, based on insight from the past several years and past several quarters, especially. We are turning that experience into pragmatic action plan, which we will be applying to our business throughout the remainder of this year and further into the future and consider this time an opportunity, which, as we all know, [any crisis] presents to transforming ourselves.

話雖如此，我想說的是，雖然我們確實知道，根據過去幾年和過去幾個季度的洞察，這對我們和更廣泛的行業來說是一個困難時期。我們正在將這一經驗轉化為務實的行動計劃，我們將在今年剩餘時間以及未來將其應用到我們的業務中，並認為這次是一個機會，眾所周知，[任何危機]都會帶來轉型的機會。

Some of our current plans and actions are focused on making real-time adjustments to our [settings], go-to-market planning, customer engagement programs and global delivery talent platform stabilization. These key investments help us to prep ourselves for a strong rebound position. What is important also to note is that our primary focus on digital products and data engineering services combined with digital consulting agency, design, content and digital marketing services will remain. In other words, the primary services and market segments, which allow us to double the company in the previous 3 years, are staying intact, while we continue to tune our capabilities in line with the volume market demands.

我們目前的一些計劃和行動專注於對我們的[設置]、上市規劃、客戶參與計劃和全球交付人才平台穩定性進行即時調整。這些關鍵投資幫助我們為強勁反彈做好準備。還需要注意的是，我們的主要重點仍然是數位產品和數據工程服務，以及數位諮詢代理商、設計、內容和數位行銷服務。換句話說，使我們在過去三年中將公司規模擴大一倍的主要服務和細分市場保持不變，同時我們繼續根據市場需求量調整我們的能力。

Our point is simple. The entire IT sector is undergoing what we believe is an evolution of the services market moving from the core IT to digitalization, even more broadly and with significant acceleration. And to consider new digitally native businesses faster to reinvent entire models and ways of working and now is the promise of generative AI capabilities empowerment at the core.

我們的觀點很簡單。我們認為，整個 IT 產業正在經歷服務市場從核心 IT 向數位化的演變，甚至更廣泛且顯著加速。更快地考慮新的數位原生業務以重塑整個模型和工作方式，現在是生成式人工智慧能力賦能的核心承諾。

We have been at the forefront of similar trends before and, once again, are looking to put EPAM at center of new wave of transformative services. We fully expect as a result to be underpinned and even more driven excited by our traditionally strong product platform engineering, data analytics and machine learning capabilities, but now in combination with what generative AI promises.

我們之前一直走在類似趨勢的前沿，現在我們再次希望將 EPAM 置於新一波變革服務的中心。我們完全期望我們傳統上強大的產品平台工程、數據分析和機器學習能力能夠得到支撐，甚至更加令人興奮，但現在與生成人工智慧的承諾相結合。

So our thesis has been and continues to be that our core services profile will benefit in the medium and longer term from a higher concentration on cloud data and engineering. And we will capitalize strongly on our core capabilities once the general situation in our segment rebounds. The AI impact will become even more real in terms of complexity of future applications and platforms by encapsulating not just currently available elements of Gen AI and a very reasonable needs for trust, reliability and security management of AI, but also by closely integrating with new classes of composite and adaptive AI platforms as well as with foundational models and specific industry cloud platforms.

因此，我們的論點一直是並將繼續是，我們的核心服務概況將在中長期內受益於對雲端資料和工程的高度關注。一旦我們細分市場的整體情況反彈，我們將大力利用我們的核心能力。就未來應用程式和平台的複雜性而言，人工智慧的影響將變得更加真實，不僅封裝了目前可用的Gen AI 元素以及對人工智慧的信任、可靠性和安全管理的非常合理的需求，而且也透過與新類別緊密整合和自適應人工智慧平台以及基礎模型​​和特定產業雲端平台。

In short, we are optimistic about the transformative opportunities to the whole application stack coming from AI-led transformation, which is also well illustrated by our latest announcements. That is one of the key areas of our investments. The second critical part is a further diversification and stabilization of our global delivery platform, including the allocation of our talent more optimally across the world, while, at the same time, enabling our strong engineering quality standards across all EPAM locations. This rebalancing effort will be performed over the next 3 to 4 quarters, in part, to drive higher levels of gross margin performance.

簡而言之，我們對人工智慧主導的轉型為整個應用程式堆疊帶來的變革機會持樂觀態度，我們最新的公告也很好地說明了這一點。這是我們投資的關鍵領域之一。第二個關鍵部分是我們的全球交付平台的進一步多元化和穩定性，包括在全球範圍內更優化地分配我們的人才，同時在所有 EPAM 地點實現我們強大的工程品質標準。這種再平衡工作將在未來 3 到 4 個季度進行，部分原因是為了提高毛利率表現。

Our other plans and actions today are focused on our immediate demand generation and new logo acquisitions. During the first half of 2023 and specifically in Q2, we drove new logo activity at higher levels than when compared it to 2021 and 2022. We see this as a positive sign of our return to demand. We should accelerate the recovery and allow us to return to growth as soon as the current client base stabilizes.

我們今天的其他計劃和行動主要集中在我們的直接需求產生和新徽標收購。在 2023 年上半年，特別是在第二季度，我們推動新標誌活動的水平高於 2021 年和 2022 年。我們應該加速復甦，一旦目前的客戶群穩定下來，我們就能恢復成長。

A few examples of our new Q2 clients include one of the world's leading B2B travel platforms, a large European-based multinational resilient marketplace organizing for trading of shares and other securities, a multibillion-dollar molecular diagnostic company specialized in detection of early stage cancers, a leading global insurance provider of financial protection, absence management and supplemental health benefit solutions and global infrastructure services company in (inaudible).

我們第二季新客戶的一些例子包括世界領先的B2B 旅遊平台之一、一家總部位於歐洲的大型跨國彈性市場，組織股票和其他證券交易，一家價值數十億美元的分子診斷公司，專門檢測早期癌症，一家領先的全球保險提供商，提供財務保護、缺勤管理和補充健康福利解決方案以及全球基礎設施服務公司（聽不清楚）。

In these new programs, we are starting to include a more diverse stack of our capabilities from consulting to different types of implementation efforts. Some of those clients, we expect will support our next growth journey. In addition, we also see some programs with existing clients who have started ramping up. Recently, Canadian Tire announced their 7-year strategic partnership with Microsoft to accelerate the modernization and drive retail innovation across the Canadian markets. Leveraging our decade-long relationship with Canadian Tires, EPAM will be trusted to improving engineering partner and digital system integrator to lead the effort.

在這些新計劃中，我們開始包含從諮詢到不同類型的實施工作的更多樣化的能力。我們預計其中一些客戶將支持我們的下一個成長之旅。此外，我們也看到一些現有客戶的計畫已經開始增加。最近，加拿大輪胎宣布與微軟建立為期 7 年的策略合作夥伴關係，以加速加拿大市場的現代化並推動零售創新。憑藉我們與 Canadian Tires 長達十年的合作關係，EPAM 將值得信賴，能夠在改進工程合作夥伴和數位系統整合商方面發揮領導作用。

So there are some signs indeed that the overall demand environment is coming to more normal terms for us. We probably will be able to share more next quarter of how strong those signs are going to be. But in anyway, it also confirms that EPAM continues to remain very relevant and competitive even in current market of low demand for the build function, which is a good entry point to share some of our go-to-market progress, especially in relationship with hyperscalers.

因此，確實有一些跡象表明，我們的整體需求環境正在變得更加正常。下個季度我們可能會更多地分享這些跡象的強度。但無論如何，它也證實了EPAM 繼續保持非常相關和競爭力，即使在當前構建功能需求較低的市場中，這是一個很好的切入點來分享我們的一些進入市場的進展，特別是在與超大規模者。

In June, we announced a global strategic partnership with Google Cloud across our global markets, cloud solutions and focusing on specific efforts in our larger verticals, including financial services, consumer, telecom, media, entertainment, health care, life sciences, energy and hi-tech to help our customers to modernize and transform their businesses. We're also encouraged and energized by the momentum we are seeing with our other major cloud partners, Microsoft and AWS. More to come on this direction very soon. But just as a preview, you might have seen that we were recently named Microsoft's Migrate Partner of the Year for 2023 with couple other vulnerable recognitions with Microsoft Partner Network.

6 月，我們宣布與Google Cloud 建立全球策略合作夥伴關係，涵蓋全球市場、雲端解決方案，並專注於我們更大的垂直行業的具體工作，包括金融服務、消費者、電信、媒體、娛樂、醫療保健、生命科學、能源和高科技。我們也對其他主要雲端合作夥伴 Microsoft 和 AWS 的發展勢頭感到鼓舞和充滿活力。很快就會有更多關於這個方向的內容出現。但作為預覽，您可能已經看到我們最近被評為 Microsoft 2023 年度遷移合作夥伴，以及 Microsoft 合作夥伴網路的其他一些易受攻擊的認可。

In overall, we made very strong progress in establishing a real 360-degree relationship with all 3 major players and plan to be sharing more over the course of the next few weeks publicly.

總的來說，我們在與所有 3 個主要參與者建立真正的 360 度關係方面取得了很大進展，並計劃在接下來的幾週內公開分享更多資訊。

Two final points. First, I just want to reiterate our view that there is a tremendous amount of work to be done in continued modernization, application development and integration and in considering and designing the models and strategies for business change. Our commitment to our expanding capabilities and engineering consulting can now work to create a next generation agency, will help us to compete and win a new demand climate once customers gain confidence in the optimization initiatives and return their attention to growth.

最後兩點。首先，我想重申我們的觀點，在持續現代化、應用程式開發和整合以及考慮和設計業務變革的模型和策略方面還有大量工作要做。我們對不斷擴大的能力和工程諮詢的承諾現在可以致力於創建下一代代理機構，一旦客戶對優化計劃充滿信心並重新關注增長，這將幫助我們競爭並贏得新的需求環境。

Second, I wanted to touch on AI one more time, as it is obviously on everyone's mind these days. So how do we see its impact to our business and more critically to our customers and the industry at large? And of course, what are you doing to position EPAM for long-term success? EPAM has a long history of investing in [RNG] and our call to action over the years has been to make the promises of technology real. So rather than sharing any specific dollar amount we plan to spend on AI, which is very difficult to estimate within current speed of change. We can instead share how we are thinking about directional investments today.

其次，我想再談談人工智慧，因為現在顯然每個人都在考慮人工智慧。那麼，我們如何看待它對我們業務的影響，更重要的是對我們的客戶和整個產業的影響？當然，您正在採取哪些措施來使 EPAM 長期成功？ EPAM 對 [RNG] 的投資有著悠久的歷史，多年來我們的行動呼籲就是讓科技的承諾成為現實。因此，我們計劃在人工智慧上花費的具體金額不是分享任何具體金額，因為在當前的變化速度下很難估計這一金額。相反，我們可以分享我們今天如何思考定向投資。

Currently, we pick investments with 2 principles in mind. Whatever you do, it has to be pragmatic to EPAM in terms of relevancy and deliverability for our clients. And second, it has to be responsible and cost-effective. This translates to 2 broad categories of things we are working on, and you probably already saw some of this being announced. We are building accelerators in IT that help orchestrate full transformation program using the best available capabilities of large language models and related from works and tools. A significant portion of this is the work we are doing to change how we ourselves work from how we will (inaudible) to how we position and operate our company.

目前，我們選擇投資時會考慮兩個原則。無論您做什麼，EPAM 都必須在與客戶的相關性和可交付性方面保持務實。其次，它必須負責任且具成本效益。這轉化為我們正在研究的兩大類事情，您可能已經看到了其中一些內容的公佈。我們正在 IT 領域建立加速器，利用大型語言模型以及相關作品和工具的最佳可用功能，以協助協調完整的轉型計畫。其中很大一部分是我們正在做的工作，以改變我們自己的工作方式，從我們將如何（聽不清楚）到我們如何定位和經營我們的公司。

We are working across thousands of use cases to focus, first of all, on responsible, and very importantly, cost-effective solutions. Otherwise, future real progress will be difficult. To do so, we are focused on expanding our partnership, including these cloud providers and leading research centers to ensure those critical aspects and also focus ourselves on aligning internally across consulting experience in technology to address that. The reality is that the production ready services application landscape is still very much at the entry stage of maturity today. While we see it is a very large and accelerating opportunity for us, specifically in our primary market segment, we are currently focusing on all type of activities to learn and experiment more from proof of concepts to real scale pilots and some scaled production initiatives.

我們正在研究數千個用例，首先關注負責任且非常重要的是具有成本效益的解決方案。否則，未來將很難取得真正的進展。為此，我們專注於擴大我們的合作夥伴關係，包括這些雲端供應商和領先的研究中心，以確保這些關鍵方面，並專注於在技術諮詢經驗方面進行內部調整，以解決這個問題。現實情況是，生產就緒服務應用程式環境目前仍處於成熟的入門階段。雖然我們認為這對我們來說是一個非常巨大且不斷加速的機會，特別是在我們的主要細分市場，但我們目前正專注於所有類型的活動，以學習和實驗更多的內容，從概念驗證到實際規模的試點和一些規模化的生產計劃。

So just like advances to our cloud over a decade ago drove demand for advanced engineering, [new generation] architecture and hybrid and distributed delivery models, we are confident that this wave of AI-led requirements will drive more demand for advanced data engineering in cloud computing, content creation and the artificial intelligence native application as well as the new UX and UI paradigms. Our clients, who themselves make up a significant segment of technology companies in technology-led enterprises are in the mindset of already started AM arms race, which we believe will be a real engine for the future growth. Some of that, we're already starting to see within our demand pipeline.

因此，就像十多年前雲端的進步推動了對高級工程、[新一代]架構以及混合和分散式交付模型的需求一樣，我們相信這一波人工智慧主導的需求將推動對雲端中高級數據工程的更多需求計算、內容創建和人工智慧本機應用程式以及新的 UX 和 UI 範例。我們的客戶本身就構成了科技主導型企業中科技公司的重要組成部分，他們的心態已經開始，增材製造軍備競賽已經開始，我們相信這將成為未來成長的真正引擎。其中一些，我們已經開始在我們的需求管道中看到。

With that, I would like to pass to Jason to share more details and numbers for Q2 and for an update for our business outlook for the remainder of 2023.

至此，我想請 Jason 分享第二季的更多詳細資訊和數據，以及我們 2023 年剩餘時間業務前景的最新情況。

Thank you, Ark, and good morning, everyone. Before covering our Q2 results, I wanted to remind you that in addition to our customary non-GAAP adjustments, expenditures resulting from Russia's invasion of Ukraine, including EPAM's humanitarian commitment to Ukraine, business continuity resources and accelerated employee relocations have been excluded from non-GAAP financial results. We have included additional disclosures specific to these and other related items in our Q2 earnings release.

謝謝你，方舟，大家早安。在介紹我們第二季的業績之前，我想提醒大家，除了我們慣常的非公認會計原則調整外，俄羅斯入侵烏克蘭所產生的支出，包括EPAM 對烏克蘭的人道主義承諾、業務連續性資源和加速員工搬遷，已被排除在非非公認會計原則之外。我們在第二季財報發布中包含了針對這些項目和其他相關項目的額外揭露。

In the second quarter, EPAM generated revenue of $1.17 billion, a year-over-year decrease of 2.1% on a reported basis and a decrease of 2.4% in constant currency terms, reflecting a favorable foreign exchange impact of 30 basis points. Revenue in the quarter was impacted by reductions in program spending across a number of our clients as well as ongoing client caution related to new project starts. The reduction in Russian customer revenues resulting from our decision to exit the market had a 100 basis point negative impact on year-over-year revenue growth. Excluding the Russia revenues, year-over-year revenue for reported and constant currency would have decreased by 1.1% and 1.7%, respectively.

第二季度，EPAM 實現營收 11.7 億美元，按報告計算年減 2.1%，以固定匯率計算下降 2.4%，反映出 30 個基點的有利外匯影響。本季的收入受到許多客戶的計劃支出減少以及客戶對新專案啟動的持續謹慎態度的影響。我們退出市場的決定導致俄羅斯客戶收入減少，對年收入成長產生了 100 個基點的負面影響。排除俄羅斯收入，以報告貨幣和固定匯率計算的年收入將分別下降 1.1% 和 1.7%。

Beginning with our industry verticals. On a year-over-year basis, travel and consumer declined 1%, primarily due to declines in retail, partially offset by solid growth in travel and hospitality. Financial services grew 3.2%, with growth coming from asset management and insurance services. Business information and media decreased 4.1% in the quarter. Revenue in the quarter was impacted by a reduction in spend at a number of large clients based on uncertainty in their end markets, particularly in the mortgage data space. Software and Hi-Tech contracted 10.3%. The decline in the quarter reflected a reduction in revenue from the former top 20 customer we mentioned during our previous earnings call and generally slower growth in revenue across a range of customers in the vertical.

從我們的垂直行業開始。旅遊和消費年減 1%，主要是由於零售業的下降，但部分被旅遊和酒店業的強勁增長所抵消。金融服務成長 3.2%，其中成長來自資產管理和保險服務。商業資訊和媒體本季下降 4.1%。由於終端市場（尤其是抵押貸款數據領域）的不確定性，許多大客戶的支出減少，影響了本季的收入。軟體和高科技產業下跌 10.3%。本季的下降反映了我們在上次財報電話會議中提到的前 20 名客戶的收入減少，以及垂直領域一系列客戶的收入成長普遍放緩。

Life sciences and health care declined 10.9%. Revenue in the quarter was impacted by the ramp down of a large transformational program mentioned during our previous earnings calls. On a sequential basis, growth in life sciences and healthcare actually was a positive 2.9%, driven by new work at both existing and new logos. And finally, our emerging verticals delivered solid growth of 8.6%, driven by clients in energy, manufacturing and automotive.

生命科學和醫療保健下降10.9%。本季的營收受到我們先前的財報電話會議中提到的大型轉型計畫縮減的影響。從環比來看，在現有標誌和新標誌的新工作的推動下，生命科學和醫療保健領域實際上實現了 2.9% 的正增長。最後，在能源、製造和汽車領域客戶的推動下，我們的新興垂直產業實現了 8.6% 的穩健成長。

From a geographic perspective, Americas, our largest region representing 58% of Q2 revenues, declined 5.9% year-over-year or 5.7% in constant currency. The growth rate in the quarter was impacted in part by the ramp down of life sciences and health care customer we mentioned during our previous earnings call. EMEA, representing 39% of our Q2 revenues, grew 8.5% year-over-year or 6.5% in constant currency. CEE represented 1% of our Q2 revenues contracted 61.1% year-over-year or 45.8% in constant currency.

從地理角度來看，美洲是我們最大的地區，佔第二季營收的 58%，年減 5.9%，以固定匯率計算下降 5.7%。本季的成長率部分受到我們在先前的財報電話會議中提到的生命科學和醫療保健客戶數量下降的影響。歐洲、中東和非洲地區占我們第二季營收的 39%，年增 8.5%，以固定匯率計算成長 6.5%。中東歐地區占我們第二季營收的 1%，年減 61.1%，以固定匯率計算下降 45.8%。

Revenue in the quarter was impacted by our decision to exit our Russia operations and the resulting ramp-down of services to Russia customers. And finally, APAC declined 19.7% year-over-year or 18.6% in constant currency terms and now represents 2% of our revenues. Revenue in the quarter was impacted primarily by the ramp-down of work within our financial services vertical. In Q2, revenues from our top 20 customers declined 2.4% year-over-year while revenues from clients outside our top 20 declined 1.9%.

本季的收入受到我們退出俄羅斯業務的決定以及由此導致的對俄羅斯客戶的服務減少的影響。最後，亞太地區年減 19.7%，以固定匯率計算下降 18.6%，目前占我們營收的 2%。本季營收主要受到金融服務垂直領域工作量減少的影響。第二季度，前 20 名客戶的營收年減 2.4%，前 20 名以外客戶的營收下降 1.9%。

Moving down the income statement. Our GAAP gross margin for the quarter was 30.9% compared to 29.2% in Q2 of last year. Non-GAAP gross margin for the quarter was 32.6% compared to 31.5% for the same quarter last year. Gross margin in Q2 2023 reflects a lower level of variable compensation expense, partially offset by the negative impact of lower utilization. GAAP SG&A was 16.7% of revenue compared to 19.5% in Q2 of last year. SG&A in Q2 2022 included a more significant level of expenses resulting from Russia's invasion on Ukraine. Non-GAAP SG&A in Q2 2023 came in at 14.8% of revenue compared to 15.2% in the same period last year. Reductions in both cost of revenue and SG&A during the quarter reflect the company's ongoing focus on managing its cost base as well as reduced variable compensation expense due to the lower level of financial performance expected for the year.

將損益表向下移動。我們本季的 GAAP 毛利率為 30.9%，去年第二季為 29.2%。本季非 GAAP 毛利率為 32.6%，去年同期為 31.5%。 2023 年第二季的毛利率反映出可變薪資費用水準較低，但部分被利用率較低的負面影響所抵銷。 GAAP SG&A 佔營收的 16.7%，去年第二季為 19.5%。 2022 年第二季的銷售、管理和行政費用 (SG&A) 包括因俄羅斯入侵烏克蘭而產生的大量支出。 2023 年第二季的非 GAAP SG&A 佔營收的 14.8%，去年同期為 15.2%。本季收入成本和銷售管理費用的減少反映了該公司持續專注於管理其成本基礎，以及由於今年預期財務業績水平較低而減少的可變薪酬費用。

In Q2, EPAM incurred $5 million in severance-related expense included in both GAAP and non-GAAP SG&A as the company works to better align its cost structure with the current demand environment. GAAP income from operations was $144 million or 12.3% of revenue in the quarter compared to $93 million or 7.8% of revenue in Q2 of last year. Non-GAAP income from operations was $191 million or 16.3% of revenue in the quarter compared to $177 million or 14.9% of revenue in Q2 of last year.

第二季度，EPAM 產生了 500 萬美元的遣散費相關費用，包括在 GAAP 和非 GAAP SG&A 中，因為該公司致力於更好地調整其成本結構以適應當前的需求環境。以 GAAP 計算，本季營運收入為 1.44 億美元，佔營收的 12.3%，而去年第二季為 9,300 萬美元，佔營收的 7.8%。本季非 GAAP 營運收入為 1.91 億美元，佔營收的 16.3%，去年第二季為 1.77 億美元，佔營收的 14.9%。

Our GAAP effective tax rate for the quarter came in at 20%. Non-GAAP effective tax rate was 23.3%. Diluted earnings per share on a GAAP basis was $2.03. Our non-GAAP diluted EPS was $2.64, reflecting a $0.26 increase compared to the same quarter in 2022. In Q2, there were approximately 59.2 million diluted shares outstanding.

我們本季的 GAAP 有效稅率為 20%。非 GAAP 有效稅率為 23.3%。以 GAAP 計算的稀釋每股收益為 2.03 美元。我們的非 GAAP 稀釋後每股收益為 2.64 美元，與 2022 年同季度相比增加了 0.26 美元。

Turning to our cash flow and balance sheet. Cash flow from operations for Q2 was $89 million compared to $78 million in the same quarter of 2022. Free cash flow was $82 million compared to free cash flow of $59 million in the same quarter last year. At the end of Q2, DSO was 71 days and compares to 69 days for Q1 2023 and 71 days for the same quarter last year. Looking ahead, we expect DSO will remain steady throughout 2023.

轉向我們的現金流和資產負債表。第二季營運現金流為 8,900 萬美元，而 2022 年同一季度為 7,800 萬美元。截至第二季末，DSO 為 71 天，而 2023 年第一季為 69 天，去年同期為 71 天。展望未來，我們預期 DSO 將在 2023 年保持穩定。

Share repurchases in the second quarter were approximately 195,000 shares for $41.4 million at an average price of $212.77 per share. As of June 30, we had approximately $450 million of share repurchase authority remaining. We ended the quarter with approximately $1.8 billion in cash and cash equivalents.

第二季的股票回購規模約為 195,000 股，回購金額為 4,140 萬美元，平均價格為每股 212.77 美元。截至 6 月 30 日，我們仍有約 4.5 億美元的股票回購權。本季結束時，我們擁有約 18 億美元的現金和現金等價物。

Moving on to a few operational metrics. We ended Q2 with more than 49,350 consultants, designers, engineers, trainers and architects. Production headcount declined 10% compared to Q2 2022, the result of lower levels of hiring, combined with voluntary and involuntary attrition as we continue to balance supply and demand. Our total headcount for the quarter was more than 55,600 employees. Utilization was 75.1% compared to 78% in Q2 of last year and 74.9% in Q1 2023.

接下來討論一些營運指標。截至第二季度，我們擁有超過 49,350 名顧問、設計師、工程師、培訓師和建築師。與 2022 年第二季相比，生產人數減少了 10%，這是由於招聘水準下降，加上我們繼續平衡供需而導致的自願和非自願減員。本季我們的員工總數超過 55,600 人。利用率為 75.1%，而去年第二季為 78%，2023 年第一季為 74.9%。

Now let's turn to our business outlook. As Ark mentioned, we have seen a higher level of new logo acquisitions and revenue from our focused efforts on demand generation. While this progress is encouraging, the level of revenue generated is not enough to offset further expected reductions in client budgets, ramp-downs and delays in new program starts. With the range of outcomes we outlined on our June 5 call, we are maintaining our expectations for a muted demand environment with sequential decline in Q3 and further sequential or flat revenue growth in Q4.

現在讓我們談談我們的業務前景。正如方舟所提到的，我們已經看到了更高水準的新標誌收購和收入來自我們對需求產生的專注努力。儘管這項進展令人鼓舞，但所產生的收入水準不足以抵消客戶預算的進一步預期減少、新專案啟動的縮減和延遲。根據我們在 6 月 5 日電話會議上概述的一系列結果，我們維持對需求環境疲軟的預期，第三季將連續下降，第四季營收將進一步連續或持平。

Our Ukrainian delivery organization continues to operate efficiently, and our teams remain highly focused on maintaining uninterrupted production. Our guidance assumes that we will continue to be able to deliver from Ukraine in productivity levels at or somewhat lower than those achieved in 2022. Consistent with previous cycles, we will continue to thoughtfully calibrate our expense levels, while investing in our capabilities and focusing on the preservation of our talent in preparation for a return to higher levels of demand.

我們的烏克蘭交付組織繼續有效運作，我們的團隊仍然高度專注於維持不間斷的生產。我們的指導假設我們將繼續能夠在烏克蘭實現等於或略低於 2022 年實現的生產力水平。我們的人才，為恢復更高水準的需求做好準備。

We expect headcount will continue to decline modestly in Q3 due to limited hiring and more typical attrition, and we will continue to limit hiring until we see improving demand. We expect utilization to decline slightly in the second half of the year, primarily driven by a higher level of expected vacations.

由於招聘有限和更典型的人員流失，我們預計第三季員工人數將繼續小幅下降，並且我們將繼續限制招聘，直到看到需求改善。我們預計下半年利用率將略有下降，這主要是由於預期假期增加所致。

Lastly, at the end of July, we completed the sale of our Russian business, which will result in a decline in Russian revenues from Q2 to Q3. But we will also recognize an estimated loss on sale of $18.4 million, which will impact our Q3 and full year GAAP results. Additionally, this will drive a further modest reduction in headcount.

最後，7月底，我們完成了俄羅斯業務的出售，這將導致俄羅斯收入從第二季到第三季下降。但我們也將確認預計銷售損失 1,840 萬美元，這將影響我們第三季和全年 GAAP 業績。此外，這將進一步推動員工人數的適度減少。

Moving on to our full year outlook. We now expect revenue to be in the range of $4.65 billion to $4.70 billion, reflecting a year-over-year decline of approximately 3%. On an organic constant currency basis, excluding the impact of the exit in Russia, we expect revenue decline to also be approximately 3%, both at the midpoint of the range. We expect GAAP income from operations to now be in the range of 10.5% to 11.5%, which includes the loss associated with the sale of our Russian business. The non-GAAP income from operations to continue to be in the range of 15% to 16%.

接下來是我們的全年展望。我們目前預計營收在 46.5 億美元至 47 億美元之間，年減約 3%。在有機不變的貨幣基礎上，排除俄羅斯退出的影響，我們預期收入下降也約為 3%，均處於該範圍的中點。我們預計 GAAP 營運收入目前在 10.5% 至 11.5% 之間，其中包括與出售俄羅斯業務相關的損失。非 GAAP 營運收入將繼續保持在 15% 至 16% 的範圍內。

We expect our GAAP effective tax rate to continue to be approximately 22%. Our non-GAAP effective tax rate, which excludes excess tax benefits related to stock-based compensation, is expected to continue to be 23%. For earnings per share, we expect that GAAP diluted EPS will now be in the range of $7 to $7.20 for the full year, and non-GAAP diluted EPS will now be in the range of $9.90 to $10.10 for the full year. We now expect weighted average share count of 59.1 million fully diluted shares outstanding.

我們預計 GAAP 有效稅率將繼續維持在 22% 左右。我們的非 GAAP 有效稅率（不包括與股票薪酬相關的超額稅收優惠）預計將繼續為 23%。對於每股收益，我們預計全年 GAAP 攤薄後每股收益將在 7 至 7.20 美元之間，非 GAAP 攤薄後每股收益將在 9.90 至 10.10 美元之間。我們目前預計完全稀釋後的加權平均股數為 5,910 萬股。

Moving to our Q3 2023 outlook. We expect revenues to be in the range of $1.14 billion to $1.15 billion, producing a year-over-year decline of 6% to 7%. On an organic constant currency basis, excluding the impact of the exit in Russia, we expect revenue to decline by 8.5% to 9.5%. For the third quarter, we expect GAAP income from operations to be in the range of 10% to 11%, and non-GAAP income from operations to be in the range of 15.5% to 16.5%. We expect our GAAP effective tax rate to be approximately 24% and our non-GAAP effective tax rate, which excludes excess tax benefits, related to stock-based compensation to be approximately 23%.

展望 2023 年第三季。我們預計營收將在 11.4 億美元至 11.5 億美元之間，年減 6% 至 7%。在有機固定匯率基礎上，排除俄羅斯退出的影響，我們預計收入將下降 8.5% 至 9.5%。對於第三季度，我們預計 GAAP 營運收入將在 10% 至 11% 範圍內，非 GAAP 營運收入將在 15.5% 至 16.5% 範圍內。我們預計我們的 GAAP 有效稅率約為 24%，我們的非 GAAP 有效稅率（不包括與股票薪酬相關的超額稅收優惠）約為 23%。

For earnings per share, we expect GAAP diluted EPS to be in the range of $1.62 to $1.70 for the quarter and non-GAAP diluted EPS to be in the range of $2.52 to $2.60 for the quarter. We expect a weighted average share count of 59.1 million diluted shares outstanding.

對於每股收益，我們預計本季 GAAP 攤薄後每股收益將在 1.62 美元至 1.70 美元之間，非 GAAP 攤薄後每股收益將在 2.52 美元至 2.60 美元之間。我們預計稀釋後流通股的加權平均數為 5,910 萬股。

Finally, a few key assumptions that support our GAAP to non-GAAP measurements in the third quarter and the remainder of the year. Stock-based compensation expense is expected to be approximately $39 million for each of the remaining quarters. Amortization of intangibles is expected to be approximately $5.5 million for each of the remaining quarters. The impact of foreign exchange is expected to be a $1.5 million gain for each of the remaining quarters. Tax effect of non-GAAP adjustments is expected to be around $11.7 million for Q3 and $9.3 million for Q4. We expect excess tax benefits to be around $2.7 million for Q3 and $1.8 million for Q4.

最後，有一些關鍵假設支持我們在第三季和今年剩餘時間內的 GAAP 與非 GAAP 衡量結果。剩餘每季的股票補償費用預計約為 3,900 萬美元。剩餘每季的無形資產攤銷預計約 550 萬美元。預計剩下的每個季度，外匯的影響將帶來 150 萬美元的收益。非 GAAP 調整的稅收影響預計第三季約為 1,170 萬美元，第四季約為 930 萬美元。我們預計第三季的超額稅收優惠約為 270 萬美元，第四季的超額稅收優惠約為 180 萬美元。

In addition to these customer GAAP to non-GAAP adjustments and consistent with the prior quarters in 2023, we expect to have ongoing non-GAAP adjustments in 2023 resulting from the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Please see our Q2 earnings release for a detailed reconciliation of our GAAP to non-GAAP guidance. Finally, one more assumption outside of our GAAP to non-GAAP items. With our significant cash position, we are now generating a healthy level of interest income and are now expecting interest and other income to be $11.7 million for each of the remaining quarters.

除了這些客戶的 GAAP 到非 GAAP 調整併與 2023 年前幾個季度保持一致外，我們預計由於俄羅斯入侵烏克蘭，2023 年將持續進行非 GAAP 調整。請參閱我們的第二季財報發布，以了解 GAAP 與非 GAAP 指引的詳細調整。最後，我們的 GAAP 以外的非 GAAP 項目還有一個假設。憑藉我們大量的現金狀況，我們現在正在產生健康水準的利息收入，並預計剩餘每季的利息和其他收入將為 1,170 萬美元。

Lastly, I'd like to thank our employees for their continued dedication and focus on our customers. Operator, let's open the call up for questions.

最後，我要感謝我們的員工對客戶的持續奉獻和關注。接線員，讓我們開始提問。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question will come from Bryan Bergin of TD Calvin.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題將來自 TD Calvin 的 Bryan Bergin。

I wanted to just kick off with large client visibility and, I guess, existing base stability. Can you talk about the conversations you're having among your top 10 or top 20 clients? Are you getting closer to stability in this space? And I'm curious, just as we look at the implied sequential decline in 3Q and perhaps 4Q, just trying to understand the attribution to the decline among the large clients still in that base versus the intake of new work coming in at lower dollar levels versus like conversion delays and slower ramps of work.

我想從大客戶的知名度以及現有的基礎穩定性開始。您能談談您與前 10 名或前 20 名客戶之間的對話嗎？您是否正在接近這個領域的穩定？我很好奇，正如我們看到第三季度甚至第四季度隱含的連續下降一樣，我只是想了解仍在該基礎上的大客戶下降的原因與美元水平較低的新工作的引入之間的關係與類似的轉換延遲和較慢的工作進度相比。

I think visibility or predictability is probably better than was a couple of quarters ago. So -- and we can plan better. But there is still a slowdown, which started a couple of quarters ago, and we're working with it. And there is also some synchronous points between clients when they were making some of the decisions. So there is elements of unknown still there. But again, in general, we feel that it's much more stable. We will also see in top 20 that some clients started to return in discussion about growth.

我認為可見性或可預測性可能比幾個季度前更好。所以——我們可以更好地計劃。但經濟放緩仍然存在，這種情況從幾個季度前就開始了，我們正在努力解決這個問題。客戶之間在做出某些決策時也存在一些同步點。所以仍然存在著未知的因素。但總的來說，我們還是覺得它更穩定。我們還將在前 20 名中看到一些客戶開始回歸有關成長的討論。

Again, it's difficult to comment when exactly it happened. But we see some signs that they tried some additional vendors, we're not satisfied, coming back to us with discussions. So I think in general feeling about Ukraine despite of situations that would get you into a more active period still from the client perspective and from expectation of the stability from work conditions. Taking into account during the last months, we didn't have particularly 1 unproductive day. So people believe that the clients starting to (inaudible) for those who continue that. So I think, in general, more stable, still unknown, and there is still a slowdown going (inaudible). We hope that it will be stopped likely in the next couple of quarters.

同樣，很難評論它到底發生在什麼時候。但我們看到一些跡象表明他們嘗試了一些其他供應商，但我們不滿意，又回來與我們討論。因此，我認為，儘管從客戶的角度以及對工作條件穩定的期望來看，儘管情況會讓您進入更活躍的時期，但我對烏克蘭的整體感覺仍然如此。考慮到過去幾個月，我們沒有特別一天沒有效率。因此，人們相信客戶開始（聽不清楚）為那些繼續這樣做的人。所以我認為，總的來說，更加穩定，仍然未知，並且仍然存在放緩（聽不清楚）。我們希望它可能會在接下來的幾個季度內停止。

Okay. And a follow-up just on the workforce diversification. Can you give us a sense on how the current operating footprint is comprised as of the close of the June quarter? Just roughly a mix between billable in Ukraine, Belarus versus Central Europe versus LatAm and APAC?

好的。以及關於勞動力多元化的後續行動。您能否讓我們了解截至六月季度結束時當前的營運足跡是如何構成的？大致是烏克蘭、白俄羅斯與中歐、拉丁美洲和亞太地區的計費混合？

Yes. So we're under 30% from a CIS region. So that's primarily, as you indicated, Ukraine and Belarus. We're continuing to see maybe a little bit of growth in India. So that continues to be a significant delivery location for us. And right now, while we're working through demand, probably we see some stabilization in Latin America, but again, continues to be a significant part of our expected current and future delivery footprint.

是的。所以我們來自獨聯體地區的比例不到 30%。正如您所指出的，這主要是烏克蘭和白俄羅斯。我們繼續看到印度可能有一點成長。因此，這仍然是我們的重要交貨地點。目前，在我們努力解決需求的同時，我們可能會看到拉丁美洲出現一些穩定，但同樣，這仍然是我們預期當前和未來交付足跡的重要組成部分。

Our next question will come from the line of Jason Kupferberg of Bank of America.

我們的下一個問題將來自美國銀行的 Jason Kupferberg。

This is Tyler DuPont, on for Jason. I just wanted to start by asking about operating margins. During the quarter, they've seen some pretty strong 130 bps greater than the top end of the guidance range. Can you just spend a minute or 2 parsing out sort of what led to that outperformance and sort of how you're thinking about margins through the back half of the year, where there's any sort of incremental investment opportunities available? Or any color there?

我是泰勒·杜邦，替傑森發言。我只想先詢問營業利潤率。在本季度，他們發現比指導範圍的上限高出 130 個基點。您能否花一兩分鐘來分析一下導致業績出色的原因以及您如何看待下半年的利潤率，其中是否存在任何增量投資機會？或是有什麼顏色嗎？

Yes. So clearly, with the demand environment that we're seeing, we're trying to make certain that we're cautious about spending, while still making certain that we're making investments in sales channels and partner programs, and clearly, our AI capabilities that would allow us to return to significant growth in the future. But we're focused clearly on SG&A, and you're seeing efficiency there. And then you're also -- some caution around what we're doing with headcount. And generally, what you're seeing is it's a little bit of tuning in different delivery locations and lower hiring, very modest hiring, which is then offset by attrition and has resulted in these net reductions in headcount.

是的。很明顯，根據我們所看到的需求環境，我們正在努力確保我們對支出持謹慎態度，同時仍然確保我們在銷售管道和合作夥伴計劃以及我們的人工智慧方面進行投資使我們能夠在未來恢復顯著增長的能力。但我們明確關注 SG&A，您會看到那裡的效率。然後，您也要對我們在人員編制方面所做的事情持謹慎態度。一般來說，你所看到的是，對不同的送貨地點進行了一些調整，並減少了招聘，非常適度的招聘，然後被自然減員所抵消，並導致了員工人數的淨減少。

The other piece, and we did talk about it, I think, in the script, is -- there is a variable compensation element. It's funded by performance versus our expectations for the full year. With the change in expectations for the full year, we did adjust the expected expense related to variable compensation. That shows up as some benefit in Q2, and we'll have lesser, but some benefit in the remainder of the year. And then again, we were just sort of toppish from a revenue standpoint with the $1.170 billion in Q2.

我認為，腳本中的另一部分，我們確實討論過，是——有一個可變補償元素。它的資金來源是業績與我們全年預期的比較。隨著全年預期的變化，我們確實調整了與可變薪酬相關的預期費用。這在第二季度顯示出一些好處，在今年剩餘時間內我們將獲得較少但一些的好處。話又說回來，從營收的角度來看，我們第二季的營收為 11.7 億美元。

From a profitability standpoint, generally, Q3 is a good quarter for us with more [build-outs]. I don't -- I think you're still going to see somewhat lower utilization in Q3, and so probably not expecting much improvement or probably maybe even a little bit of decline if you went to the midpoint of the range, the 15.5% to 16.5% that we've guided to for Q3. I think gross margins could end up in a 32% to 33% range in Q3 with lower bill days in Q4, may be somewhat lower. And I would definitely expect to see a decline in profitability between Q3 and Q4 due to a lower number of bill days, vacations and all of that, which generally impacts profitability in the last quarter of the year.

從獲利能力的角度來看，總的來說，第三季度對我們來說是一個很好的季度，有更多的[擴建]。我不認為——我認為第三季度的利用率仍然會有所下降，因此如果您達到該範圍的中點（15.5%），可能不會有太大改善，甚至可能會出現一點下降達到我們為第三季指引的16.5%。我認為第三季的毛利率最終可能會達到 32% 至 33% 的範圍，第四季的帳單天數較低，可能會稍微低一些。我肯定預計第三季和第四季之間的獲利能力會下降，因為帳單天數、假期等數量減少，這通常會影響今年最後一個季度的獲利能力。

Okay. Great. I appreciate that, Jason. And then for my follow-up, I just wanted to sort of double click on the demand story here as we look towards the back half of the year, specifically your expectations on the evolution of the demand environment across your total client base, the balance between if you're assuming macro stability or any sort of additional softness in any of the verticals or geographies you're operating in? I know Bryan sort of alluded to the sequential declines and the last question in regard to 3Q and potentially 4Q. So just sort of any clarity there helping us frame the demand environment would be appreciated.

好的。偉大的。我很感激，傑森。然後，對於我的後續行動，當我們展望今年下半年時，我只想雙擊這裡的需求故事，特別是您對整個客戶群的需求環境演變的期望，平衡如果您假設宏觀穩定或您所經營的任何垂直行業或地區存在任何額外的柔軟性，兩者之間是什麼？我知道布萊恩提到了連續下降以及關於第三季度和潛在第四季度的最後一個問題。因此，只要有任何清晰的資訊可以幫助我們建立需求環境，我們將不勝感激。

So just -- I'm going to give you the numbers, what we're currently seeing from a forecast standpoint for Q3, and then I'll let Ark comment and maybe provide more color. From a sequential standpoint, I think with some of the budget reductions that you've seen in major customers, you're likely to continue to see sequential decline across a fairly large number of our verticals. I think you could see sequential growth in the emerging, which has got a significant energy manufacturing footprint. I think you could continue to see -- are likely to see a sequential growth in the healthcare and life sciences, where we're making good traction here in fiscal year 2023.

所以，我將向您提供我們目前從第三季預測角度看到的數字，然後我會讓 Ark 發表評論，也許會提供更多資訊。從連續的角度來看，我認為隨著主要客戶的一些預算削減，您可能會繼續看到我們相當多的垂直行業的連續下降。我認為你可以看到新興經濟體的連續成長，這些經濟體在能源製造業中佔有重要地位。我認為您可能會繼續看到醫療保健和生命科學領域的連續成長，我們在 2023 財年在這些領域取得了良好的進展。

So that's kind of what I'm seeing from that standpoint. I think you still have a little bit of impact from customer decisions to reduce spend in Q2. And I think as Ark has indicated that we're more hopeful that clients are beginning to sort of stabilize their spend and could even see some increase later in the year. But...

這就是我從這個角度所看到的。我認為客戶減少第二季支出的決定仍然會產生一些影響。我認為，正如 Ark 所表明的那樣，我們更有希望客戶開始穩定他們的支出，甚至可能在今年稍後看到一些成長。但...

Yes, I think that's in line with what I shared at the beginning of the questions. It's still soft. It's still unpredictable. It's still slightly going down. At the same time, we see different conversations starting to happen. There are more activities with new logos, and that's what we shared during our thought at the beginning, but also existing clients, different tone of conversations that we saw a couple of months, a couple of quarters ago. Again, it's still difficult to predict. We reacted and forecasted based on what we really kind of see right now.

是的，我認為這與我在問題開始時分享的內容一致。它還是軟的。這仍然是不可預測的。還在小幅下降。同時，我們看到不同的對話開始發生。有更多帶有新徽標的活動，這就是我們一開始在想法中分享的內容，但也有現有客戶，以及我們幾個月、幾個季度前看到的不同語氣的對話。同樣，這仍然很難預測。我們根據我們現在真正看到的情況做出反應和預測。

The next question will come from David Grossman of Stifel.

下一個問題將來自 Stifel 的 David Grossman。

I wonder if I could just -- a couple of quick follow-ups to some of the questions that have been asked. I mean, the first is just getting back to the customer dynamics and their own desire to kind of diversify risk geographically. If things stabilize from here, when would the sequential revenue headwinds begin to diminish if things just stabilized from here going forward?

我想知道我是否可以對所提出的一些問題進行一些快速跟進。我的意思是，首先是回到客戶動態以及他們自己在地域上分散風險的願望。如果事情從這裡開始穩定下來，那麼如果事情從這裡開始穩定下來，那麼什麼時候開始減少連續的收入阻力？

Yes. So clearly, we would expect a sequential decline in Q2 to Q3, so when would the sequential stabilize. And then, David, I think you're aware of this Q3 to Q4 is just you've got to build an impact. And so you have to have an improvement in demand to stay flat Q3 to Q4. And so we think that, that's possible as we talked about in the guidance or maybe you could see a little bit of growth Q3 to Q4. But you do have -- you're walking uphill Q3 to Q4 with the lower build is.

是的。很明顯，我們預計第二季到第三季會出現環比下降，那麼環比何時會穩定下來。然後，大衛，我認為你知道第三季到第四季你必須產生影響。因此，需求必須有所改善才能在第三季至第四季保持穩定。因此，我們認為，正如我們在指南中所討論的那樣，這是可能的，或者您可能會看到第三季到第四季的一些成長。但你確實有——你正在上坡，從第三季度到第四季度，身材較低。

Right. So including...

正確的。所以包括...

Yes, go ahead.

是的，繼續吧。

No, I just wanted to clarify, so excluding seasonality, right, if things stabilize from here, things would be flattish sequentially, right, excluding the seasonal dynamic.

不，我只是想澄清一下，所以排除季節性因素，對吧，如果事情從這裡開始穩定下來，事情會依次變得平坦，對吧，排除季節性動態。

I think its earlier what I would comment that in June when we talked last time, I mean in May kind of when we clearly felt that situation worse than we expected before. We (inaudible) about 2, 3, 4 quarters. And I think that's the feeling, which we still have today, okay? Because it's very difficult to predict. Like you're asking when. So I do believe that within this time frame, we will probably will get to the situation when sequential -- quarterly sequential growth will start to recover.

我認為我要評論的是，在六月，當我們上次談話時，我的意思是在五月，當時我們明顯感覺到情況比我們之前預期的更糟。我們（聽不清楚）大約 2、3、4 個季度。我想這就是我們今天仍然有的感覺，好嗎？因為它非常難以預測。就像你問什麼時候一樣。因此，我確實相信，在這個時間範圍內，我們可能會遇到季度環比成長開始恢復的情況。

But we clearly we'll be updating this quarter-to-quarter. So we definitely see it slow down. We definitely see different signs from the clients. But again, some clients when they made some decisions, they within themselves have some type of inertia, which would take some time. All market will be very clearly changed or less satisfaction with some other matters will be not as high, okay? Some of this has started to feel, that's what given us some level of (inaudible). But I don't think we can say anything more than another 2, 3 quarters from now, maybe 4.

但我們顯然會每季進行更新。所以我們肯定會看到它放緩。我們確實從客戶那裡看到了不同的跡象。但同樣，有些客戶在做出某些決定時，他們內心有某種慣性，這需要一些時間。所有市場都會發生非常明顯的變化，或者對其他一些事情的滿意度不會那麼高，好嗎？其中一些已經開始感覺到，這給了我們一定程度的（聽不清楚）。但我認為我們只能再過 2、3 個季度，甚至 4 個季度再說什麼。

Got it. All right. I appreciate that. And then just back to your own internal efforts to geographically diversify. And without getting too far into the details, are there some high-level dashboard items that you can share that would provide some insight into recruiting kind of yield, utilization, attrition? Anything that would give us a sense of kind of how these new geographies are ramping?

知道了。好的。我很欣賞這一點。然後回到你自己的內部努力，以實現地域多元化。在不深入了解細節的情況下，您是否可以分享一些高級儀表板項目，這些項目可以提供有關招聘類型的產量、利用率、人員流失的一些見解？有什麼能讓我們了解這些新地區的發展嗎？

Okay. You're asking about what we feel about our progress with diversifying like our global delivery. Is this...

好的。您問的是我們對我們在全球交付等多元化方面取得的進展有何看法。這是…

Correct, correct.

正確，正確。

Okay. So I think we're actually pretty much satisfied with the progress. I think our efforts in India and Latin America definitely starting to pay out. India, right now, the second largest location we've built. And that was part of the (inaudible) which we started in May 2022, when we went with all of you (inaudible) what we're planning to do. So right now, Ukraine and Belarus production together, it's more like 25%, 26% for the total capacity. Where in the Latin America, probably by the end of the year it will be closer to 18%, 20%. The quality and efforts, which we put in there, are definitely improving. We also have very specific programs, how to share knowledge between people who stay and depart for a long time, and how to raise the bar with improvement and new operations.

好的。所以我認為我們實際上對進展非常滿意。我認為我們在印度和拉丁美洲的努力肯定開始得到回報。印度，目前是我們建造的第二大基地。這是我們在 2022 年 5 月開始的（聽不清楚）計畫的一部分，當時我們與大家一起（聽不清楚）我們計劃要做的事情。所以現在，烏克蘭和白俄羅斯的產量加起來，大約佔總產能的25%、26%。在拉丁美洲，到今年年底可能會接近 18%、20%。我們在那裡投入的品質和努力肯定正在提高。我們還有非常具體的計劃，如何在長期停留和離開的人之間分享知識，以及如何透過改進和新營運來提高標準。

I think we're still committed very much to Ukraine. We do believe that it will be growth there. Yes, we don't know when, but maybe we'll be very much aligned with the sequential growth, which we are expecting in 2, 3, 4 quarters coming back. So besides India, Latin America, which is more traditional, we have actually Central Western Asia, which is interesting because it's accumulate a significant number of people for those who (inaudible) located during the last 18 months.

我認為我們仍然非常致力於烏克蘭。我們確實相信那裡將會成長。是的，我們不知道什麼時候，但也許我們會與連續成長非常一致，我們預計會在 2、3、4 個季度恢復。因此，除了更傳統的印度、拉丁美洲之外，我們實際上還有中西亞，這很有趣，因為對於那些在過去18 個月內（聽不清楚）的人來說，它積累了大量的人口。

So we have very interesting ways, and we have potentially a very good demographics for the growth of the target in these countries and clients started to experience this and getting comfortable. And again, with the demand coming back, I think it will be a good opportunity for us. And finally, more traditional fast location, Central Eastern Europe, mostly inside of EU, sometimes outside of EU, what, Hungary, Poland, this is very quality -- high-quality engineering location for us. Clients very comfortable there and good demand environment. It's always very high demand. So it's also becoming stronger because good (inaudible) located from our traditional data centers.

因此，我們有非常有趣的方法，而且我們在這些國家/地區的目標成長方面可能擁有非常好的人口統計數據，客戶開始體驗這一點並感到舒適。同樣，隨著需求的回升，我認為這對我們來說將是一個很好的機會。最後，更傳統的快速地點，中東歐，大部分在歐盟內部，有時在歐盟之外，什麼，匈牙利，波蘭，這對我們來說是非常高品質的工程地點。客戶在那裡非常舒適，需求環境良好。要求總是非常高。因此它也變得更強大，因為它位於我們傳統資料中心的良好位置（聽不清楚）。

So I think we go in actually to the direction of building probably the most balanced global delivery platform. And as soon as the rebound will be started, we will feel comfortable to grow. One of the important things that we mentioned this, we very carefully kind of balance in the cost structure is because in all of the sectors which I outlined, there are different cost structures. And we -- going back to improve our gross margins by reallocating focuses across (inaudible). So if in a short question, we will be able to provide quality, which clients expected from us. It's simply recent clients that is actually very (inaudible).

所以我認為我們實際上正在朝著建立可能是最平衡的全球交付平台的方向前進。一旦反彈開始，我們就會放心地成長。我們提到的重要事情之一是，我們非常仔細地平衡成本結構，因為在我概述的所有部門中，都有不同的成本結構。我們－透過重新分配重點（聽不清楚）來提高我們的毛利率。因此，如果是一個簡短的問題，我們將能夠提供客戶對我們期望的品質。這只是最近的客戶實際上非常（聽不清楚）。

Next question will come from Maggie Nolan of William Blair.

下一個問題將來自威廉·布萊爾的瑪吉·諾蘭。

Just to follow up on that last question and your last comment there, Ark, around the margins. Can you give us a little bit of a preliminary thought on what all of this might mean for gross margins into 2024? When we might see things kind of start to pick up and to what magnitude?

只是為了跟進最後一個問題和你最後的評論，方舟，在邊緣。您能否給我們一些關於所有這些對 2024 年毛利率可能意味著什麼的初步思考？我們什麼時候會看到事情開始好轉，幅度有多大？

Yes. I think I'll step in. And we're probably not quite ready to talk about the 2024 in terms of, let's say, specifics or even ranges. But Ark explained, as we moved into the different delivery locations, obviously we did so quickly. In some cases, we probably have a little bit more balance in the higher-cost geographies, including traditional kind of on-site markets. We would look to kind of rebalance that somewhat. And then the other thing as we've talked about over the last couple of quarters is that as we move into new geographies, and particularly as we sort of either relocated or stood up new geographies quickly, we ended up with a somewhat more sort of senior delivery organization and delivery pyramid. And we're working to begin to introduce more juniors later in the year that would then give us a more balanced pyramid and therefore also improve margins. And so that, obviously combined with utilization improvement, would be the things that we're looking to do to sort of stabilize and improve gross margins over time.

是的。我想我會介入。 我們可能還沒準備好談論 2024 年的具體細節甚至範圍。但阿克解釋說，當我們搬到不同的送貨地點時，顯然我們做得很快。在某些情況下，我們可能在成本較高的地區（包括傳統的現場市場）有更多的平衡。我們會尋求某種程度的重新平衡。然後，我們在過去幾個季度討論的另一件事是，當我們進入新的地區時，特別是當我們快速搬遷或建立新的地區時，我們最終得到了一種更多的解決方案。交付組織和交付金字塔。我們正在努力在今年稍後開始引進更多的初級員工，這將為我們提供一個更平衡的金字塔，從而提高利潤率。因此，顯然與利用率的提高相結合，這將是我們希望隨著時間的推移穩定和提高毛利率的事情。

Okay. And then on the new logo additions, it was good to hear the progress on that this quarter. Can you talk a little bit about the ability to keep the sales force intact during all this transformation -- and then any kind of patterns that you're seeing on those new logos in terms of the time it's taking for them to convert to revenue?

好的。然後在添加新徽標方面，很高興聽到本季度的進展。您能否談談在整個轉型過程中保持銷售團隊完好無損的能力，以及您在這些新徽標上看到的任何類型的模式，即它們轉化為收入所需的時間？

So I think our comment on new logo and new business is kind of illustrated that while sales force is also some (inaudible), I think directionally, it's working through positively right now. I think after our comments like several quarters ago, when we were in the middle of all the allocations, we have to deal with thousands of people, so it will slow down. Right now, it's all (inaudible)

因此，我認為我們對新徽標和新業務的評論在某種程度上說明了，雖然銷售人員也有一些（聽不清楚），但我認為從方向上來說，它現在正在積極發揮作用。我認為在我們幾個季度前的評論之後，當我們處於所有分配的中間時，我們必須與數千人打交道，所以它會放慢速度。現在，一切都過去了（聽不清楚）

Yes. So very much actively focused on external opportunities and much of the internal things that we had to manage over the last, say, 4 quarters are substantially behind us. And there's a focus with both the account teams, the sales force and the executives on driving incremental revenue growth.

是的。因此，我們非常積極地關注外部機會，而過去我們必須管理的許多內部事務，比如說，四個季度已經過去了。客戶團隊、銷售人員和高階主管都將重點放在推動收入增量成長。

Next question will come from the line of Ramsey El-Assal of Barclays.

下一個問題將來自巴克萊銀行的拉姆齊·阿薩爾 (Ramsey El-Assal)。

I wanted to follow up with your mentioning kind of tighter integrations and partnerships with the hyperscalers. Can you talk about the strategy, how these relationships might act or expand your capabilities or your addressable market? And then also just comment on whether this is part of positioning EPAM for growth once the demand environment picks up again.

我想跟進您提到的與超大規模企業更緊密的整合和合作夥伴關係。您能否談談策略，這些關係如何發揮作用或擴展您的能力或您的目標市場？然後也只是評論一下，一旦需求環境再次好轉，這是否是 EPAM 成長定位的一部分。

Yes, I think it's dynamic also in general because of the market change in comparison like during a year ago. Now we're talking about much closer relationship from (inaudible) we definitely, like everybody else, focusing on client perspective, where hyperscalers can open additional doors and all competitors doing the same. And this is kind of nothing new. On another side, the partner should become stronger because just migration to the cloud is kind of as-is business, becoming not so interested and usually, it means very complex modernization efforts.

是的，我認為總體來說它也是動態的，因為與一年前相比，市場發生了變化。現在我們正在談論（聽不清楚）更密切的關係，我們肯定像其他人一樣，專注於客戶的角度，超大規模企業可以打開更多的大門，所有競爭對手也可以這樣做。這並不是什麼新鮮事。另一方面，合作夥伴應該變得更強大，因為遷移到雲端只是一種按現狀的業務，變得不那麼感興趣，而且通常意味著非常複雜的現代化工作。

And this is where the strengths of EPAM come in from. And this is why the partnership with hyperscalers has become more important not only for us, but for them as well because EPAM has a reputation, which actually can do complex modernization and complex integration. And that's what we mentioned getting the (inaudible) status of partner of the year in this category with Microsoft. That's exactly a confirmation on this.

這就是 EPAM 的優勢所在。這就是為什麼與超大規模企業的合作不僅對我們而且對他們來說都變得更加重要，因為 EPAM 享有盛譽，實際上可以進行複雜的現代化和複雜的整合。這就是我們提到的與 Microsoft 取得該類別年度合作夥伴（聽不清楚）的地位。這正是對這一點的確認。

And as we mentioned, we will be following this some announcement during the next couple of weeks, which will be confirming improved partnership levels, specifically because of our ability to deliver complexity. And it's definitely a very good preparation, from our point of view, for rebound because when demands will be back, everything which wasn't finished, and it's a lot, in all categories, in cloud and data modernization projects adds huge pressure or demand for data engineering because of the AI components. So the hyperscalers relationship will be very critical.

正如我們所提到的，我們將在接下來的幾週內關注這項公告，這將確認合作夥伴關係水準的提高，特別是因為我們有能力提供複雜性。從我們的角度來看，這絕對是反彈的一個非常好的準備，因為當需求回來時，所有未完成的事情，而且在所有類別中，在雲端和資料現代化專案中都增加了巨大的壓力或需求由於人工智慧組件，數據工程。因此，超大規模提供者的關係將非常關鍵。

All right. And a follow-up for me. Can you contrast the demand environment in Europe versus North America? It looks like the growth rates are different in those geographies, although admittedly I don't -- necessarily have not tabulated the constant currency number. But is it a different environment you're seeing in different geographies? Or is it very similar trends across the business regardless of geography?

好的。以及我的後續行動。能否比較一下歐洲和北美的需求環境？看起來這些地區的成長率是不同的，儘管我承認我沒有——不一定沒有列出恆定的貨幣數字。但您在不同地區看到的環境是否不同？或者無論地理位置如何，整個產業的趨勢都非常相似？

Yes. So certainly, some of what happened in Europe is due to foreign exchange. But what we are seeing is that some of the larger kind of budget reductions and conservatism is actually showing up more in North American clients. Think about the couple of clients we've talked about in health care and tech. Those were both North American clients. We've seen less of these types of reductions in spend in Europe. At the same time, we've got some pretty good traction also even in the consumer and retail side in Europe. And so yes, there does seem to be a bit of a divergence, but we'll see what happens as we work through the remainder of the year.

是的。因此，可以肯定的是，歐洲發生的一些事情是由於外匯造成的。但我們看到的是，一些更大規模的預算削減和保守主義實際上更多地出現在北美客戶身上。想想我們在醫療保健和科技領域討論過的幾個客戶。這些都是北美客戶。我們在歐洲看到的此類支出削減較少。同時，即使在歐洲的消費者和零售領域，我們也獲得了一些相當好的吸引力。是的，似乎確實存在一些分歧，但我們將在今年剩餘時間看看會發生什麼。

In general, it's still (inaudible) we're talking about several specific client situations. Mostly it's happened in North America, and those situations were independent from general economic environment.

總的來說，我們仍然（聽不清楚）正在討論幾種特定的客戶情況。大部分發生在北美，這些情況與總體經濟環境無關。

Our next question will come from Moshe Katri of Wedbush Securities.

我們的下一個問題將來自 Wedbush Securities 的 Moshe Katri。

A couple of follow-ups here. So do you -- looking at the new logos -- can you confirm that you're actually getting the same bill rates as you're selling via some of the other delivery centers, including India, as you have been getting in Eastern Europe? So are we talking about comparable billability?

這裡有一些後續行動。那麼，看看新徽標，您是否能確認您實際上獲得的帳單費率與您透過其他一些交付中心（包括印度）銷售的帳單費率與您在東歐獲得的帳單費率相同？那我們是在談論可比較的計費能力嗎？

So what we usually talk about is an environment where potentially you can get higher bill rates with new engagements. That's probably less likely to occur in today's demand environment. And generally, Moshe, if you're trying to get it just kind of what happens as you deliver more out of India. India does have somewhat lower price points than some of the geographies in Eastern Europe, maybe not significantly different than a few of the geographies in Southwest, in Western Asia or Soviet Central Asia. But we does have somewhat lower price points than certainly sort of Central Europe.

因此，我們通常談論的是一種環境，在這種環境中，您有可能透過新的業務獲得更高的帳單費率。在當今的需求環境中，這種情況可能不太可能發生。一般來說，Moshe，如果你想實現這一目標，那麼當你從印度交付更多產品時就會發生這種情況。印度的物價確實比東歐的一些地區低一些，與西南部、西亞或蘇聯中亞的一些地區可能沒有太大區別。但我們的價格確實比中歐低。

Okay. So would you say that the new logos that are coming on board are more dilutive to margins versus what you were accustomed to? Or is there any way to mitigate that?

好的。那麼您是否認為即將推出的新徽標與您習慣的徽標相比會更稀釋利潤？或者有什麼辦法可以緩解這種情況嗎？

Yes. So if you -- you can have different bill rates in different geographies and still have the same margin percent, right? You've got different cost structures, you got different cost of benefits and that type of thing. And so lower price, or higher price even, doesn't necessarily mean lower or higher margin. Again -- so I would say, yes, we can kind of mitigate. And no, I don't expect that new business is being attained in super expressive margins. We're working to kind of sharpen our pencils, but be appropriate in our pricing.

是的。因此，如果您可以在不同地區採用不同的帳單費率，但仍具有相同的利潤率，對嗎？你有不同的成本結構，你有不同的效益成本等等。因此，較低的價格，甚至較高的價格，並不一定意味著較低或較高的利潤。再說一次——所以我想說，是的，我們可以減輕影響。不，我並不期望新業務能夠獲得超額利潤。我們正在努力削尖鉛筆，但要適當定價。

All right. That makes sense. And last one here. So we visited your center in Hyderabad. And I remember, you have a significant capacity to kind of expand there. Can you talk a bit about your future plans in terms of how important India or critical India is going to be able to continue to get those new logos onboard and actually to be able to accelerate growth down the road?

好的。這是有道理的。最後一張在這裡。所以我們參觀了你們在海得拉巴的中心。我記得，你有強大的能力在那裡擴張。您能否談談您未來的計劃，即印度或關鍵印度將能夠繼續使用這些新徽標並實際上加速未來的成長？

Yes. Still, I know like we answered it a little bit in gray area. But in general, you need to understand the current market environment is not what it was. And everybody knows it like 18 months ago or 2 years ago. The whole rate structure for everyone, not only for us, is different for new deals as well. So the other things which could change it is actually the demand come into more normal scale and the demand for complexity for build stuff will go up, then correction will be happening in other side. So there is nothing magical here. So the new deals coming today is very different environment if it was, again, 18, 24 months ago. It's number one.

是的。不過，我知道我們的回答有點處於灰色地帶。但總的來說，你需要了解當前的市場環境與過去不同。每個人都知道 18 個月前或 2 年前。每個人（不僅是我們）的整個費率結構對於新交易也是不同的。因此，其他可能改變它的事情實際上是需求變得更加正常，並且對建構內容的複雜性的需求將會上升，然後在另一邊會發生修正。所以這裡沒有什麼神奇的。因此，今天的新交易與 18、24 個月前相比，環境非常不同。這是第一名。

Number two, about India. Now I don't know when you visited -- I don't remember when we visited Hyderabad, but right now we have 5 development centers. We -- Hyderabad still is the biggest one, but we have 2 others, which are going very strongly and a few others which we started recently going strongly as well. So that's definitely an important part of our future, but it's one of the parts. It's not like we're going to switch completely. That's what I mentioned before. We're really looking how to build very balanced global delivery network for EPAM.

第二，關於印度。現在我不知道你什麼時候訪問過——我不記得我們什麼時候訪問過海得拉巴，但現在我們有 5 個開發中心。我們——海得拉巴仍然是最大的一個，但我們還有另外兩個，它們的發展勢頭非常強勁，還有一些我們最近開始強勁發展的。所以這絕對是我們未來的重要組成部分，但它只是其中之一。我們並不打算完全轉變。這就是我之前提到的。我們真正在尋找如何為 EPAM 建立非常平衡的全球交付網路。

Our next question will come from Puneet Jain of JPMorgan.

我們的下一個問題將來自摩根大通的 Puneet Jain。

I also wanted to ask about demand. Do you expect like clients to spend on CapEx investments to modernize or replatform their core systems sometime this year, maybe in 4Q? Or is that type of work is something that could come through under next year's budget, meaning that it might not come in anytime this year?

我也想問需求。您是否希望像客戶這樣的客戶在今年某個時候（也許是在第四季度）進行資本支出投資，以對其核心系統進行現代化或重新建構平台？或者這種類型的工作可以在明年的預算下完成，這意味著它可能不會在今年的任何時候完成？

Do you expect to see modernization and spend occurring in Q4 or more likely to see a return to budget growth in the first half of 2024?

您預計現代化和支出會在第四季度實現，還是更有可能在 2024 年上半年恢復預算成長？

It's difficult to answer that. I think we answered this question already in another way a couple of times. We don't know it. There is not so much visibility. That's difficult. Some of them, who knows, it's sometimes unexpected happened in Q4 will be the quarter when clients will really start spending. But let's see, so...

很難回答這個問題。我想我們已經以另一種方式回答過這個問題好幾次了。我們不知道。沒有那麼多能見度。那很難。其中一些人知道，有時會發生意想不到的情況，第四季將是客戶真正開始支出的季度。但讓我們看看，所以...

Got it. And are you seeing any pricing pressure on a like-to-like basis?

知道了。您是否看到類似基礎上的定價壓力？

The pricing pressure on like-for-like basis. So I think Ark obviously picked it up in a more pronounced way than I did earlier. So this is definitely an environment where you need to sharpen your pencil. And so clearly, we're being thoughtful, but it is in an environment where clients are particularly cost-sensitive. And that is showing up in pricing. And to Moshe's question earlier, is that traditionally in certain newer engagements, it's an opportunity to sort of improve price and that's less the case in this fiscal year.

同類基礎上的定價壓力。所以我認為方舟顯然比我之前更明顯地接受了它。所以這絕對是一個需要削鉛筆的環境。很明顯，我們考慮得很周到，但這是在客戶對成本特別敏感的環境下進行的。這也體現在定價上。對於 Moshe 先前提出的問題，傳統上，在某些較新的業務中，這是一個提高價格的機會，但本財年的情況較少。

The next question will come from Arvind Ramnani of Piper Sandler.

下一個問題將來自 Piper Sandler 的 Arvind Ramnani。

I wanted to ask you about your new clients. Are they coming from specific industries and geos? Or maybe are you going to provide some color on the nature of work on your new clients?

我想問一下你的新客戶的情況。他們來自特定行業和地區嗎？或者您打算為新客戶提供一些有關工作性質的資訊？

I think at this specific time, again, there are some industries like, let's say, oil and gas, which is in pretty good shape, okay? But this is more an exception today. The rest of the new clients, in our view, happens from 2 kind of categories. Some clients who actually try to utilize this time as an opportunity and decided to go and invest instead of like and get some competitive advantage. And that's exactly what you will recall before I said. As soon as these type of clients will demonstrate some results, it will trigger a faster recovery of the market for build and kind of transformative programs, okay?

我認為在這個特定的時間，有一些行業，例如石油和天然氣，狀況非常好，好嗎？但今天這更像是個例外。我們認為，其餘的新客戶來自兩大類。一些實際上試圖利用這段時間作為機會的客戶決定去投資，而不是喜歡獲得一些競爭優勢。這正是我說之前你會記得的。一旦這些類型的客戶展示出一些成果，它將引發建構和變革專案市場的更快復甦，好嗎？

And the second category, I think it's a client which is, at this point, not trying just to do transformative programs, but trying to utilize this time to build relations with stronger vendors for the future return and be prepared for this because, in our view, demand for talent when market will rebound will be very, very strong with everything what's happening right now in technology, in technical debt. And since which we have not done or not finished and with everything was triggered by -- it seems like everybody is trying to talk about generative AI, so no questions, but it's still there and it will change actually and scale. So press will put pressure on the talent demand as well. Well, a lot of people -- speculation that it would replace companies like (inaudible).

第二類，我認為這是一個客戶，在這一點上，不僅僅試圖進行變革性計劃，而是試圖利用這段時間與更強大的供應商建立關係，以獲得未來的回報，並為此做好準備，因為，在我們的認為，當市場反彈時，對人才的需求將非常非常強勁，因為目前技術和技術債方面正在發生的一切。從那時起，我們還沒有完成或沒有完成，一切都是由——似乎每個人都在試圖談論生成人工智慧，所以毫無疑問，但它仍然存在，並且它實際上會發生變化和規模。因此媒體也會對人才需求施加壓力。嗯，很多人猜測它將取代像（聽不清楚）這樣的公司。

Yes. That's helpful. And I mean, I know typically, when you start your client relationships, they start small and then they kind of ramp over time. Is that kind of a similar dynamic that you have with these new clients?

是的。這很有幫助。我的意思是，我通常知道，當你開始建立客戶關係時，它們會從小規模開始，然後隨著時間的推移逐漸發展。您對這些新客戶的態度是否類似？

So there are a few, for example, on -- we kind of give I think, 5, 6 examples across different [industries]. There are few of them which is pretty large. And that's why we mentioned that it might be that they will be driving our growth the next years. There are some of them, which is more framework contracts, which we won and just started, and there is a specific place how it's happening. So it might start to bring results like closer to the end of the year, maybe beginning of the next year, visible results. And there are some which is very, very specific programs, but not weak, but very interesting from the new technology standpoint. So it's kind of a variety of this. If we will see better trends, that would mean that it's actually the market change.

例如，我認為我們提供了一些跨不同[行業]的 5、6 個範例。它們的數量很少，而且很大。這就是為什麼我們提到他們可能會在未來幾年推動我們的成長。其中有一些是更多的框架合同，我們贏得了這些合同並且剛剛開始，並且有一個特定的地方是如何發生的。因此，它可能會開始帶來明顯的結果，例如接近年底，也許明年年初。還有一些非常非常具體的程序，但並不弱，但從新技術的角度來看非常有趣。所以這是各種各樣的。如果我們看到更好的趨勢，那就意味著這實際上是市場的變化。

Perfect. And just last question for me. Just -- I did want to ask about Belarus. Can you share some sort of headcount trends and utilizing in Belarus? And are you also seeing any pushback with sort of your exposure to Belarus?

完美的。這是我的最後一個問題。只是——我確實想問白俄羅斯的情況。能分享一下白俄羅斯的員工人數趨勢和利用嗎？您在白俄羅斯的投資是否也遇到了阻力？

I think I would (inaudible) Ukraine and Belarus here. I think with the Ukraine clients who stay with Ukraine are much more comfortable right now. We see some clients coming back. Again, it proves that nothing was happening from the quality of delivery or kind of impact on any production activities during the last 18 months, making clients more comfortable. Yes, it's kind of new normal, but normal is a key part of this. With Belarus, it's a slowdown. We still have clients which (inaudible) there, and we have some clients who are exiting there. So Belarus is, from headcount point of view, kind of [slightly] faster than as of anything else.

我想我會（聽不清楚）烏克蘭和白俄羅斯。我認為留在烏克蘭的烏克蘭客戶現在感覺更舒服。我們看到一些客戶回來了。這再次證明過去 18 個月內沒有發生任何交付品質或對任何生產活動的影響，讓客戶更加放心。是的，這是一種新常態，但常態是其中的關鍵部分。白俄羅斯的經濟成長放緩。我們仍然有客戶（聽不清楚）在那裡，我們有一些客戶正在離開那裡。因此，從人員數量的角度來看，白俄羅斯比其他任何國家都[稍微]快。

I am seeing no further questions in the queue. I would now like to turn the conference back to Arkadiy Dobkin for closing remarks.

我在隊列中沒有看到更多問題。現在我想請阿卡迪·多布金 (Arkadiy Dobkin) 致閉幕詞。

Thank you, everybody. I think we will update you in 3 months. But in general, we get in -- with all unpredictability, we feel a little bit more stable and predictable than the quarter ago. So thank you very much and talk to you in 3 months.

謝謝大家。我想我們會在 3 個月內更新您的資訊。但總的來說，我們進入了——儘管存在不可預測性，但我們感覺比上季前更加穩定和可預測。非常感謝您，並在 3 個月後與您交談。

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you all for participating. You may now disconnect, and have a pleasant day.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝大家的參與。您現在可以斷開連接，並度過愉快的一天。