Okeanis Eco Tankers Corp (ECO) 2024 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to the OET first-quarter 2024 results financial results presentation. We will begin shortly. Aristidis Alafouzos, CEO; and Iraklis Sbarounis, CFO of Okeanis Eco Tankers, will take you through the presentation. We will be pleased to address any questions raised at the end of the call. I would like to advise you that this session is being recorded. Iraklis, please begin the presentation now.

歡迎觀看 OET 2024 年第一季財務業績簡報。我們很快就會開始。阿里斯蒂迪斯·阿拉福索斯，首席執行官； Okeanis Eco Tankers 財務長 Iraklis Sbarounis 將帶領您完成示範。我們很樂意回答通話結束時提出的任何問題。我想告訴您，本次會議正在錄製中。伊拉克利斯，現在請開始演講。

Welcome to the presentation of Okeanis Eco Tankers results for the first-quarter of 2024. We will discuss matters of the forward-looking nature, and actual results may differ from the expectations reflected in such forward-looking statements. Please read through the relevant disclaimer on slide 2. So starting the presentation on slide 4 and the executive summary, I'm pleased to present the highlights of the first quarter of 2024.

歡迎觀賞 Okeanis Eco Tankers 2024 年第一季業績發表會。我們將討論前瞻性的問題，實際結果可能與此類前瞻性陳述中反映的預期有所不同。請仔細閱讀投影片 2 上的相關免責聲明。因此，從投影片 4 和執行摘要的簡報開始，我很高興介紹 2024 年第一季的亮點。

It has been a very positive one. This marks the first quarter that we have been fully spot exposed across both our VLCC and Suezmax fleets. We achieved fleet wide time charter equivalent of over $63,000 per vessel per day, spot rates for VLCCs of $69,000, and spot Suezmaxes of $57,000. We report adjusted EBITDA of $65.2 million, adjusted net profit of $39.6 million, and adjusted EPS of $1.23.

這是一件非常正面的事情。這標誌著我們的 VLCC 和 Suezmax 船隊首次全面暴露在現場。我們的船隊期租租金相當於每艘船每天超過 63,000 美元，VLCC 現貨費率為 69,000 美元，蘇伊士型油輪現貨費率為 57,000 美元。我們報告調整後 EBITDA 為 6,520 萬美元，調整後淨利潤為 3,960 萬美元，調整後每股收益為 1.23 美元。

Our Board declared an eighth consecutive capital distribution of $1.10 per share, that is about 90% of our adjusted EPS, as we continue delivering on our performance to distribute value to our shareholders. We remain very positive on the market outlook in parallel to our commitment to distribute as much as possible, always taking into account our capital structure and overall cash position. On a four-quarter rolling basis, we have distributed $3.86 per share, that's 92% and 93%, respectively, of our reported and adjusted EPS over the same period. On a nominal basis, that's approximately $125 million.

我們的董事會宣布連續第八次分配每股 1.10 美元的資本，約佔調整後每股收益的 90%，同時我們將繼續交付業績，為股東分配價值。我們對市場前景仍然非常樂觀，同時我們承諾盡可能多地分配，並始終考慮到我們的資本結構和整體現金狀況。在四個季度的滾動基礎上，我們分配了每股 3.86 美元，分別占同期報告和調整後每股收益的 92% 和 93%。以名目價值計算，該金額約為 1.25 億美元。

Slide 5, diving a little further into our P&L for the first three months of the year, TCE revenue stood at $81 million, EBITDA of $65 million, reported net income of $42 million. This quarter, we recognized an extraordinary noncash gain of $2.3 million related to the amendments to our two leases on the VLCCs, Nissos Kea and Nissos Nikouria, which resulted in the recognition of a modification gain as per IFRS rules. We expect to amortize the gain through the duration of the leases. Including such gain and other minor cash adjustments, our reported EPS came out at $1.29.

投影片 5，進一步深入了解今年前三個月的損益表，TCE 營收為 8,100 萬美元，EBITDA 為 6,500 萬美元，淨利為 4,200 萬美元。本季度，我們確認了與 VLCC Nissos Kea 和 Nissos Nikouria 兩艘租約的修改相關的 230 萬美元非現金非現金收益，這導致根據 IFRS 規則確認了修改收益。我們預計將在租賃期間內攤銷收益。包括此類收益和其他較小的現金調整，我們報告的每股收益為 1.29 美元。

Moving on to slide 6 and our balance sheet, we ended the quarter with $109 million of cash. You may remember that year end cash balance was affected by a higher than usual amount of receivables, which were collected at the beginning of the year. Our debt as of March 31 stood at $694 million, book leverage of 58%, while market adjusted net LTV based on our most recent broker values has now been reduced to approximately 40%, continuing to stand at more than comfortable levels for us. On slide 7, we summarize our corporate and capital structure as well as our employment profile.

轉到投影片 6 和我們的資產負債表，本季末我們的現金為 1.09 億美元。您可能還記得，年末現金餘額受到年初收取的應收帳款高於平常金額的影響。截至3 月31 日，我們的債務為6.94 億美元，帳面槓桿率為58%，而根據我們最新的經紀商價值進行市場調整的淨LTV 現已降至約40%，繼續保持在對我們來說超出舒適水平的水平。在投影片 7 中，我們總結了我們的公司和資本結構以及我們的就業概況。

As we talked about earlier since late December, our entirely fleet is trading in the spot market. In the last quarter, we talked about four transactions that would materially improve our capital structure, including commencing with [Amiglos], the execution of the series of refinancings of our legacy expensive leases. We closed all four of these transactions within the quarter as expected. Overall, since the summer of 2023, we have improved the cost of debt on nine out of our 14 vessels by approximately 100 basis points; while in parallel, improving on other terms and extending maturities.

正如我們早些時候從 12 月底以來談到的那樣，我們的整個機隊都在現貨市場上進行交易。在上個季度，我們討論了四項將實質改善我們資本結構的交易，包括從 [Amiglos] 開始，對我們遺留的昂貴租賃進行一系列再融資。我們按預期在本季內完成了所有四筆交易。總體而言，自 2023 年夏季以來，我們已將 14 艘船舶中的 9 艘的債務成本降低了約 100 個基點；同時，改進其他方面並延長期限。

The company is in a great and opportune position to take advantage of a competitive financing market landscape and the momentum achieved with all our last done transactions, as we're negotiating the refinancing of the Poliegos, a significant milestone in improving our interest cost and capital structure. And we also continue to be on the lookout for accretive opportunistic deals on other vessels. I'm now passing over the presentation to Aristidis for the commercial update.

該公司處於有利且有利的位置，可以利用競爭激烈的融資市場格局以及我們最近完成的所有交易所取得的勢頭，因為我們正在談判Poliegos 的再融資，這是改善我們的利息成本和資本的一個重要里程碑結構。我們也繼續尋找其他船舶的增值機會主義交易。我現在將簡報轉交給 Aristidis 以獲取商業更新。

Thank you, Iraklis. Q1 2024 was our first quarter of having full quarter of 100% spot exposure. This is where we want to be in this point of the cycle and we're very confident here. The market was very well balanced in Q1 and the floor was established with strong resistance levels. During Q1, there were three or four tight moments where we saw the market firm and position list really tightened and it genuinely felt as it could really run upwards more, but it's stalled out.

謝謝你，伊拉克利斯。2024 年第一季是我們擁有 100% 現貨敞口的第一個季度。這就是我們在周期的這個階段想要達到的目標，我們對此非常有信心。第一季市場非常平衡，底部已形成強大的阻力位。在第一季度，有三四個緊要關頭，我們看到市場堅挺，頭寸清單確實收緊，並且確實感覺它確實可以進一步向上運行，但它已經停滯了。

The major charters, especially loading out of the AG on VLCC, they're very concentrated and effectively taking the steam out of the market when things get a bit tighter. Owners will break this control and take over the reins and control the market when we have a bit more power and there's a further driver. The market is currently balanced, as I said earlier. So we need a small but it’s like some additional OPEC suppliers or seasonality to give us the strength.

主要的租船，特別是從 AG 裝載到 VLCC 上，它們非常集中，當情況變得有點緊張時，它們有效地消除了市場的動力。當我們擁有更多的權力並且有更多的驅動力時，業主將打破這種控制並接管韁繩並控制市場。正如我之前所說，市場目前處於平衡狀態。因此，我們需要一個小規模的組織，但就像一些額外的歐佩克供應商或季節性因素一樣，為我們提供力量。

The effect of the closure of the Red Sea is now fully established in Q1 and it continues into Q2. And we've seen how crude trading patterns have changed on the crude market. Arab AG barrels, especially Iraqi flunk to Europe on Suezmaxes via the Suez Canal, they're not either sold east or they're parceled up on VLCCs and sent to Europe via the Cape of Good Hope. Likewise, again, Med Suezmax cargoes either loading in Libya or Algeria or from the Black Sea, which would go east on Suezmax, they're now being parceled up again on VLCCs and getting sent around the Cape also.

紅海封閉的影響現已在第一季完全顯現，並將持續到第二季​​。我們已經看到原油市場上的原油交易模式發生了什麼樣的變化。阿拉伯AG桶，尤其是伊拉克桶，透過蘇伊士運河用蘇伊士型油輪運往歐洲，它們要么不向東出售，要么被包裝在VLCC上，通過好望角運往歐洲。同樣，地中海蘇伊士型船的貨物要么在利比亞或阿爾及利亞裝載，要么從黑海裝載，這些貨物將通過蘇伊士型船向東航行，現在它們再次被包裝在VLCC上，並也被發送到好望角。

And we've capitalized on these types of voyages on our VLCCs and they worked out really well for us, because we've been able to triangulate and minimize balance to effectively nothing on some of our ships. Given we have to dry dock our 2019 built VLCCs this year, we took advantage of having our VLCC in the west to timing fix against these spikes we saw in Q1, our vessels to the East to position for the dry dock. These were highly profitable runs that outperformed the round voyage alternative of staying in the West by margin that offsets the value of being in the West. So we were happy to do these fixtures and I think we would have probably done these fixtures even if we didn't have the dry docks just because of the premium of the front haul versus the round voyage time charter equivalent.

我們在 VLCC 上利用了這些類型的航行，它們對我們來說效果非常好，因為我們能夠對我們的一些船舶進行三角測量並將平衡最小化到實際上沒有任何平衡。鑑於今年我們必須將 2019 年建造的 VLCC 進乾船塢，我們利用 VLCC 在西部的優勢來調整時間，以應對第一季度我們看到的高峰，我們的船隻在東部為乾船塢定位。這些航線利潤豐厚，其表現優於留在西部的往返航線，其利潤抵消了留在西部的價值。所以我們很高興做這些固定裝置，我認為即使我們沒有乾船塢，我們也可能會做這些固定裝置，因為前程運輸相對於往返航次定期租船的溢價。

We plan the dry docks to occur during Q2 and Q3 in order to have the ships back and ready for a strong Q4. The dry docks are expected to take 15 to 20 days and the vessels won't undergo through a maintenance, as well as sailing out with new high spec painting schemes that will actually make these ships more efficient than when they were delivered to us in newbuildings. During the quarter, we have achieved a fleet YTC of $63,600 per operating day. Our VLCCs generated $68,800 per day in the spot market and this is a 47% outperformance relative to all our tanker peers that have reported Q1 earnings.

我們計劃在第二季和第三季進行乾船塢，以便讓船舶返回並為第四季度的強勁表現做好準備。乾船塢預計需要 15 至 20 天，船舶不會進行維護，也不會採用新的高規格塗裝方案啟航，這實際上將使這些船舶比新造船交付給我們時更加高效。本季度，我們的機隊 YTC 達到每個營運日 63,600 美元。我們的 VLCC 在現貨市場上每天產生 68,800 美元的收入，比所有已報告第一季度收益的油輪同行高出 47%。

Our Suezmaxes generated $56,700 per spot day and that's a 10% outperformance relative to our tanker peers who have also reported Q1 earnings. These numbers reflect our actual book PCEs within the quarter as per our counterparts. And we will move on to slide 10 for guidance on Q2. Q2 was another balanced and strong quarter, where OET avoided some of the seasonal weakness in rates.

我們的蘇伊士型油輪每個現貨日的收入為 56,700 美元，比同樣公佈第一季收益的油輪同業高出 10%。這些數字反映了我們在本季內與同業的實際帳面 PCE。我們將繼續看投影片 10，以了解第二季的指導。第二季度是另一個平衡且強勁的季度，OET 避免了利率的一些季節性疲軟。

For the past two weeks, we are experiencing this tightness in the market that I mentioned in the previous slide. If the owners had slightly more driving confidence, we could really see rates push on. This being said, I would not be surprised if we have a summer surprise and we see a decent spike going into the summer. Overall, in Q2, our trading in Q1, our trading strategy has changed a bit on the Vs and the Suezmaxes.

在過去的兩周里，我們正在經歷我在上一張幻燈片中提到的市場緊張。如果車主有更多的駕駛信心，我們確實可以看到價格上漲。話雖這麼說，如果我們在夏季有驚喜，並且看到進入夏季的強勁增長，我不會感到驚訝。總體而言，在第二季度，我們在第一季的交易中，我們的 V 型油輪和蘇伊士型油輪的交易策略發生了一些變化。

The Suezmax fleet, since we don't go through the Red Sea, we've lost the natural backhaul from the AG to the Europe. So the front hauls, either you have to price them on a round trip voyage or you have or bounce back. This has made us to adjust the trading of the vessels more exclusively in the West and avoiding getting stuck out in the East without a backhaul. We always prefer trading in the West on Suezmaxes.

蘇伊士型船隊，由於我們不經過紅海，所以我們失去了從AG到歐洲的自然回程。因此，對於前程運輸，您必須在往返航程中對其進行定價，或者您必須反彈。這使得我們更專門調整船隻在西方的貿易，避免在沒有回程的情況下在東方陷入困境。我們總是更喜歡在西方進行蘇伊士型油輪貿易。

And while on the VLCCs, we're positioning, as I mentioned earlier, for the dry dock, and we have a strong presence in the East at the moment, which we haven't had since 2022. Once we completed dry docks though on the VLCC, we will likely return to a strategy where we minimize ballast, and we trade our VLCCs with a focus on getting back to the West using backhauls and then fixing front haul lease using or staying local when we think that the premium is not big enough to take the front haul lease. So far in Q2, we fixed 71% of our fleet spot days at $7,600 per day. We've done 82% of our VLCC spot base at $75,900 per day, that's a 50% outperformance relative to our tanker peers who have reported Q2 earnings.

正如我之前提到的，在 VLCC 上，我們正​​在為乾船塢定位，目前我們在東方擁有強大的影響力，這是自 2022 年以來我們從未有過的。一旦我們在 VLCC 上完成乾船塢，我們可能會回到盡量減少壓載的策略，我們交易 VLCC 的重點是使用回程返回西方，然後使用或留在當地修復前程租賃。租賃。到目前為止，第二季我們將 71% 的機隊現貨日固定在每天 7,600 美元。我們 82% 的 VLCC 現貨基礎價格為每天 75,900 美元，比報告第二季度收益的油輪同行高出 50%。

And 57% of our Suezmax spot days at $60,800 per day, and that's a 48% performance relative to our tanker peers that have reported Q2 earnings. On slide 11, we have reformatted our outperformance slide. I think what we try to show here is that, this is a proven and consistent outperformance that grows when the market is strong and those extra earnings for a market are very material. So at OET, we're really focused on maintaining this consistency going forward and keeping the outperformance strong in the following quarters.

我們的蘇伊士型油輪現貨日中有 57% 的價格為每天 60,800 美元，相對於已報告第二季度收益的油輪同行而言，這一表現高出 48%。在投影片 11 上，我們重新格式化了表現出色的投影片。我認為我們在這裡試圖展示的是，這是一種經過驗證且持續的優異表現，當市場強勁且市場的額外收益非常可觀時，這種表現就會增長。因此，在 OET，我們真正專注於保持這種一致性，並在接下來的幾季保持強勁的表現。

On slide 12, we think that OPEC+ has given stability to market prices and kept inventory levels in a steadily decreasing trajectory overall. We had expected OPEC+ to return some barrels in June or July, but this potentially made delay until late in the year due to the relative softening of oil prices. The side effect of OPEC+ stabilized in the market are the abnormalities that occur when you effectively regulate the market. The floor and pricing has encouraged non-OPEC supply growth to effectively match global oil demand growth.

在投影片 12 中，我們認為 OPEC+ 穩定了市場價格，並使庫存水準整體保持在穩定下降的軌道上。我們原本預計 OPEC+ 將在 6 月或 7 月歸還部分石油，但由於油價相對疲軟，這可能會推遲到今年年底。OPEC+穩定市場的副作用是有效監管市場時出現的異常。下限和定價鼓勵非歐佩克供應成長，以有效匹配全球石油需求成長。

This is occurring when OPEC spare capacity has been slowly growing due to the cuts and new production coming online. One question we have is, how long will OPEC be able to manage their partners. With oil prices this high and energy transition in progress, we expect a weakening control of OPEC over its members and we expect more fleeing and even a decent chance of countries breaking out and producing outside of their quotas. This is obviously very bullish for the market.

這種情況發生在歐佩克閒置產能因減產和新產量上線而緩慢成長的情況下。我們面臨的一個問題是，歐佩克能夠管理其合作夥伴多久。隨著油價如此之高且能源轉型正在進行，我們預計歐佩克對其成員國的控制將會減弱，我們預計會有更多的國家逃離，甚至有很大的機會超出其配額進行生產。這對市場來說顯然是非常利多的。

On slide 13, we look at the supply setup that seems too good to be true. A staggering amount of tonnage reaches the commercially restrictive age of 15 and 20 years over the next six years. While shipyard capacity is steadily reduced and the quality yards that build tankers are focused on higher profit margin assets, like containers, LNGCs, VLGCs, car carriers, et cetera. The Read Sea situation has also caused a large tailwind to the container sector freight, which without would have had serious headwinds due to the delivery order book.

在投影片 13 中，我們看到了似乎好得令人難以置信的供應設定。在接下來的六年裡，數量驚人的噸位將達到 15 年和 20 年的商業限制年齡。儘管造船廠產能穩定下降，建造油輪的優質船廠專注於利潤率較高的資產，如貨櫃、液化天然氣運輸船、超大型液化天然氣運輸船、汽車運輸船等。里德海事件也為貨櫃運輸業帶來了巨大的推動力，如果沒有交貨訂單，貨櫃運輸業就會面臨嚴重的阻力。

This will bring a further newbuild contracting wave on containers, which we will see materialize over the coming months. The future container orders will further restrict availability for tankers and will reduce the potential supply for '27, '28, and onwards. Finally, although asset prices are high due to the strength in trade currently, the expected strength in future freight and the high newbuilding cost, we still believe there's a material upside to values when we enter the phase where we see very strong freight strength in '25 and '26. So it's a unique and exciting time to be in tankers, and I'm handing it back to the operator. Thank you.

這將帶來進一步的貨櫃新建合約浪潮，我們將在未來幾個月看到這一浪潮的實現。未來的貨櫃訂單將進一步限製油輪的供應，並將減少 27 年、28 年及以後的潛在供應。最後，儘管由於目前貿易的強勁、未來貨運的預期強勁以及新造船成本高昂，資產價格處於高位，但我們仍然相信，當我們進入「貨運強勁」階段時，價值將出現實質上漲。 。因此，這是乘坐油輪的獨特且令人興奮的時刻，我將其交還給操作員。謝謝。

(Operator Instructions) Liam Burke, B. Riley.

（操作員說明）Liam Burke，B. Riley。

Due to the rerouting of traffic, the VLCCs are taking share from the Suezmax, but rates seem to be pretty elevated on a normalized basis. Is there any offset on the Suezmax possibly not increase in non-OPEC+ plus production?

由於交通路線的改變，超大型油輪正在從蘇伊士型油輪手中奪取份額，但在正常化的基礎上，費率似乎相當高。蘇伊士型油輪是否會抵消非 OPEC+ 國家產量的增加？

Yeah, for sure, because I also think that the amount of oil that Suezmaxes were delivering from the Arabian Gulf to Europe prior to the Red Sea situation on Suezmax predominantly is a lot more today than what it is being delivered today on VLCC. So this gap in oil is transported from some other origin, whether it's West Africa or the US Gulf or Brazil. And these are decent length voyages, and predominantly, they will use Suezmaxes. Because we have to remember that the Mediterranean, especially is not a basin that's designed to discharge VLCCs.

是的，當然，因為我還認為，在蘇伊士型油輪出現紅海局勢之前，蘇伊士型油輪從阿拉伯灣運送到歐洲的石油量主要比今天用超大型油輪運送的石油量要多得多。因此，石油缺口是從其他來源運輸的，無論是西非、美國海灣或巴西。這些都是相當長的航程，而且主要將使用蘇伊士型油輪。因為我們必須記住，地中海尤其不是專門用於排放 VLCC 的盆地。

We have discharged two, three maybe on the way to do four VLCCs in Europe, and everything has been via SPS on to Suezmaxes. Like these VLCC voyages also create additional Suezmax voyages, and whenever you have an SPS, you never know when the ship will arrive either our ship or the ship that's coming, the weather delays, so you create additional Suezmax voyage from the VLCC rerouting as well. So I think it's both a combination of non-OPEC Suezmax cargoes in the Atlantic Basin, bringing on Suezmaxes, plus the inefficiency of VLCCs and the requirement to lighter on to Suez.

我們已經卸貨了兩艘、三艘，可能正在前往歐洲建造四艘 VLCC 的途中，一切都已透過 SPS 轉移到蘇伊士型油輪上。與這些VLCC 航程一樣，也會創建額外的Suezmax 航程，每當您擁有SPS 時，您永遠不知道船舶何時會到達我們的船或即將到來的船舶、天氣延誤，因此您也可以從VLCC 重新航線建立額外的Suezmax 航程。因此，我認為這既是大西洋盆地非歐佩克蘇伊士型油輪貨物的組合，帶來了蘇伊士型油輪，再加上VLCC的低效率以及需要駁運到蘇伊士油輪的要求。

Thank you. And you mentioned it's obvious, asset valuations are pretty elevated. Even in this environment, is there any interest or any possibility of adding assets?

謝謝。你提到很明顯，資產估值相當高。即使在這種環境下，還有增加資產的興趣或可能性嗎？

Look, I mean we've been fairly prudent. I mean we've been very prudent since, I don't know, since 2021 when we bought the last VLCC delivering in 2022. We're very happy with the fleet. We don't necessarily need to add assets at the moment.

聽著，我的意思是我們一直相當謹慎。我的意思是，自 2021 年我們購買了最後一艘 VLCC 並於 2022 年交付以來，我們一直非常謹慎。我們對機隊非常滿意。我們目前不一定需要新增資產。

We definitely don't want to add any assets that disrupt potential dividend payments. So that's the number one concern of making sure we can keep returning our profits to shareholders. So I wouldn't say that it's very likely that we will be purchasing assets. Although we do see material upside to the values of assets and there are some ships being sold right now that are sister ships to ours.

我們絕對不想增加任何破壞潛在股利支付的資產。因此，這是確保我們能夠繼續將利潤返還給股東的首要問題。所以我不會說我們很可能會買資產。儘管我們確實看到資產價值的實質上漲，而且目前正在出售的一些船舶是我們的姊妹船。

Last time last year, it was around 113 that [Barry] bought in 2019 those VLCCs. This year, the ship is six years old. So it's depreciated by whatever, 5%, 6%. But I actually think that this price that these ships will be sold out, which are also 2019 will be higher than $113 million. So I think we're there to see another small step up in valuation again.

去年，[Barry] 在 2019 年購買了大約 113 艘 VLCC。今年，這艘船已經有六歲了。所以它貶值了5%、6%。但我實際上認為這些船在 2019 年售罄的價格將高於 1.13 億美元。所以我認為我們會看到估值再次小幅上升。

All right, great. And I apologize, it’s last question, but I didn't get it. In the prepared statements, you talked about outdistancing the benchmarks. I believe the Suezmaxes rates outdistance the comps by 10%. I didn't get the VLCCs. And again, I apologize for that.

好吧，太好了。我很抱歉，這是最後一個問題，但我沒聽懂。在準備好的聲明中，您談到了超越基準。我相信蘇伊士型油輪的運價比其他油輪高出 10%。我沒有得到VLCC。我再次為此道歉。

No problem. So the Suez, in Q1, the Suezmaxes outperformed all our comps by 10%. The VLCCs in Q1 outperformed all our comps by 47%. And in Q2, like given the percentage of days we fixed, we outperformed by 50%, all our comps who reported by 50% on VLCCs and 48% on Suezmaxes.

沒問題。因此，蘇伊士型油輪在第一季的表現比我們所有的同類油輪高出 10%。第一季的 VLCC 比我們所有的競爭對手高出 47%。在第二季度，考慮到我們修復的天數百分比，我們的表現超出了 50%，我們所有的公司在 VLCC 上的表現優於 50%，在 Suezmax 上表現優於 48%。

Great, thank you very much.

太好了，非常感謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Petter Haugen, ABG.

彼得·豪根，ABG。

Thank you and goor morning and good afternoon, guys. Start out where the earlier question on the outperformance. Could you elaborate in a little bit more detail, because, well, as you say, you, yesterday or the day before, VLCC is guiding for $51,000 for Q2 on their pretty modern fleet of VLCCs, while you today come to the market with close to $76,000 per day. So it almost sounds too good to be true, and please explain to me why it's not?

謝謝你們，早安，下午好，夥計們。從之前關於表現出色的問題開始。您能否更詳細地闡述一下，因為，好吧，正如您所說，昨天或前天，VLCC 在其相當現代化的VLCC 船隊中第二季度的指導價格為51,000 美元，而您今天以接近的價格來到市場每天 76,000 美元。所以這聽起來好得令人難以置信，請向我解釋為什麼不是？

Yeah, I mean I can't really explain why others are higher or lower, but I mean I can explain we've really managed to be able to fix -- first of all, we had a lot of ships in the West. So these were doing round voyages, which historically have outperformed the tanker market. And because of the dry docks and because we felt that the West was slowly becoming oversaturated and this premium to the East was eroding, we thought it was time to go East. So we had ships that we're opening in the North Sea.

是的，我的意思是我無法真正解釋為什麼其他人更高或更低，但我的意思是我可以解釋我們確實能夠解決問題 - 首先，我們在西方有很多船隻。因此，這些都是往返航行，從歷史上看，它們的表現優於油輪市場。由於乾船塢的存在，而且我們認為西方正在慢慢變得過度飽和，而東方的溢價正在侵蝕，我們認為是時候走向東方了。因此，我們正在北海開設船隻。

We had ships that were opening in the Med. We fixed the ship open in North Sea to load in the North Sea to go to China. So if our competitor has the same distance ballast and latent and where we have 500 miles one day ballast or two days ballast and then 60 latent, you can see how the TCE is going to be excellent for us, because we have no ballast days. And the same goes for two or three ships in the Med. Again, we were discharging the Med on these cargoes coming from the AG or from the US Gulf.

我們有在地中海開放的船隻。我們把船固定在北海開著，在北海裝貨到中國。因此，如果我們的競爭對手具有相同的距離壓載和潛伏，而我們一天行駛500 英里或兩天壓載，然後60 英里潛伏，您可以看到TCE 對我們來說非常出色，因為我們沒有壓載天。地中海的兩到三艘船也是如此。我們再次對來自 AG 或美國海灣的這些貨物進行地中海卸貨。

And then, we found opportunity to load in the Med again, so minimal ballast, one, two, three days,and sail all the way down around Africa to China or to Korea. So the effect of triangulation that we'll be able to achieve is really, really advantageous for us. It's also a benefit that we have a relatively small fleet, so we're very flexible in being able to choose the exact cargoes that we want. And having very good relationships that the company and the family have had for the past four years now in tankers that they've been maintained over that period as well.

然後，我們找到機會再次裝載地中海，所以最小的壓艙物，一、兩天、三天，然後一路航行繞過非洲到中國或韓國。因此，我們能夠實現的三角測量效果對我們來說確實非常有利。我們擁有相對較小的船隊也是一個好處，因此我們能夠非常靈活地選擇我們想要的確切貨物。公司和家族在過去四年中在油輪上建立了非常良好的關係，並且在此期間也一直保持著這種關係。

Thank you. But then again, you're no positioning ships to the East. It sounded as if it's perhaps a little bit more sort of front haul weighted in the Q2 guiding them. So well, first question, should we expect more ballast and less of an outperformance in Q3 and possibly Q4 when the dry docks are done?

謝謝。但話又說回來，你無法將船隻部署到東方。聽起來好像在第二季度引導他們時可能有更多的前牽引力。那麼，第一個問題，當乾船塢完工後，我們是否應該預期第三季甚至第四季的壓載量增加，而表現不佳的情況減少？

I like how you said less of an outperformance. Yeah, potentially. Look, I think once the dry docks are done the first voyage post dry dock, it's always a bit of a challenge because you lose your approvals, and the charterers are a bit concerned about some outdated issue that ships had 30 years ago, but because shipping is a slow changing industry, they've kept on. So the first voyage, it's not going to be the ideal voyage that we've done but we're going to find something short and quick to get it over with.

我喜歡你所說的不太出色的表現。是的，有可能。看，我認為一旦乾船塢完成了乾船塢後的第一次航行，這總是一個挑戰，因為你失去了批准，而且承租人有點擔心船舶 30 年前存在的一些過時的問題，但因為航運是一個變化緩慢的行業，他們一直堅持下去。因此，第一次航行不會是我們完成的理想航行，但我們會找到一些簡短而快速的方式來完成它。

And then, we're going to get back to the way we usually trade ships. So repositioning to the West on these nice backhauls and then fixing fronthaul East again.

然後，我們將回到我們通常交易船隻的方式。因此，在這些良好的回程重新定位到西方，然後再次修復前程東方。

And in terms of dry docks, can I ask how many days do you plan now to spend for each of them? And what would you then in terms of the number of this again as price as standard work to be done, what is additional? I guess, the painting jobs is needed to be done either way. But if you have any additional days or CapEx in terms of upgrades better than what it was?

至於乾船塢，我可以問一下，您現在計劃為每個乾船塢花費多少天？那麼，您認為需要完成的標準工作的價格是多少，還有哪些額外的工作？我想，無論哪種方式都需要完成繪畫工作。但是，在升級方面，您是否還有比以前更好的額外天數或資本支出？

So the expected duration in the dry dock is 16 days at the moment. It could go a day quicker, usually things take delay a bit longer. But we've guided 15 to 20 days. I think you mentioned saying about maintenance. Yeah, I mean, we're going to do everything that's required for our ships to perform without issues as they have been performing for the next five years.

因此目前預計在幹船塢的停留時間為 16 天。它可能會快一天，通常事情會延遲更長的時間。但我們指導了 15 到 20 天。我想你有提到關於維護的事情。是的，我的意思是，我們將盡一切努力使我們的船舶在未來五年內不會出現任何問題。

So we want to overhaul major equipment that we don't have issues with and have commercial off hire time going forwards. And the ships have been running very hard. I mean since 2022, our fleet has been basically saling at full speed the whole time. And we've left very little time for the manager to do any kind of extra maintenance. So the dry dock, we need to do a good job here.

因此，我們希望對沒有問題的主要設備進行大修，並在未來有商業停租時間。而且船隻一直努力行駛。我的意思是從2022年開始，我們的機隊基本上一直在全速銷售。我們留給經理任何額外維護的時間非常少。所以乾船塢，我們這裡需要做好。

The paint scheme that we're using, we're using two types of paint: One is, pure silicone by Hempel; and another is a slightly more conventional by Jotun. We're really positive about the effects of these paints. We've used the Hempel on one of our Suezmaxes and we saw there that her performance was better than when she was delivered. So we're quite excited about the effects of those paint. And I think we expect the whole cost, including all expenses, including port costs, and everything like that, to come in slightly above $2 million.

我們使用的油漆方案，我們使用兩種類型的油漆：一種是Hempel的純矽膠；另一種是Hempel的純矽膠。另一種是佐敦的稍微傳統一點。我們對這些塗料的效果非常樂觀。我們已經在我們的一艘蘇伊士型油輪上使用了 Hempel，我們發現她的性能比交付時更好。所以我們對這些塗料的效果感到非常興奮。我認為我們預計整個成本，包括所有費用，包括港口成本以及類似費用，將略高於 200 萬美元。

Peter, keep in mind, just a reminder, we are capitalizing both dry dock expenses as well as the paint costs.

彼得，請記住，只是提醒一下，我們正在資本化乾船塢費用和油漆費用。

Yeah, okay. A quick related question. Now, we will come in to what your ships are 2019 during the first write-off, but there is also quite a few 2009 build ships, which will do their third dry dock. Should we expect an abnormal amounts of dry dock days in the fleet this year? And is there sufficient dry dock capacity in the East for all the dry docks that will be done now with the delivery boom we saw back in 2009, '10?

好的。一個快速的相關問題。現在，我們將在第一次核銷期間了解您的 2019 年船舶狀況，但也有不少 2009 年建造的船舶將進行第三次乾船塢。我們是否應該預期今年船隊的乾船塢天數會異常多？隨著我們在 2009 年看到的交付熱潮，東部是否有足夠的乾船塢能力來滿足現在將完成的所有乾船塢，'10？

I think in the next years when we see the wave of deliveries of '9, '10, '11, '12, which were very heavy delivery years, obviously, we will see a higher number of ships being dry docked and a decrease in the available VLCC fleet, which is positive for the market. I think, though, that the market does have capacity to dry dock the ships. I haven't heard that as a concern. It's just that perhaps some people might not find optimum yard quality that they like or optimum slot timing.

我認為在接下來的幾年裡，當我們看到「9」、「10」、「11」、「12」這些交付量非常大的年份的交付浪潮時，顯然，我們將看到更多的船舶進入乾塢，而船舶數量將減少。不過，我認為市場確實有能力讓船舶進乾塢。我沒聽過有這樣的擔憂。只是也許有些人可能找不到他們喜歡的最佳院子品質或最佳槽位時間。

So we were very concerned about the quality of the yard, both for being able to overhaul the machinery that we want and to do the work we want and to apply the painting correctly but also to have the slot that we want. So for us, it was very key that we can get the ships in at some point in the summer. They can do that first voyage and be all ready for a Q4 spike. So that's been the strategy for us all along.

因此，我們非常關心院子的質量，既為了能夠檢修我們想要的機器，做我們想要的工作，正確地塗漆，又為了擁有我們想要的插槽。因此，對我們來說，能夠在夏季的某個時候讓船隻入港非常關鍵。他們可以完成第一次航行，並為第四季度的峰值做好準備。所以這一直是我們的策略。

And that's also why Nissos Anafi, she's a 2020-built VLCC, she doesn't technically need to do her dry dock until next year, but we're going to bring it forward. So we don't have to be dry docking a ship in January, February of Q1, and missing out that strong market, which, theoretically, should be a lot firmer than what June or July maybe.

這也是 Nissos Anafi 的原因，她是一艘 2020 年建造的 VLCC，從技術上講，她在明年之前不需要進乾船塢，但我們將把它提前。因此，我們不必在第一季的一月、二月進乾船塢，而錯過那個強勁的市場，從理論上講，這個市場應該比六月或七月堅挺得多。

Sounds wise. Just the final question for me on the market side of things, do you see around the US Gulf is perhaps at least from the screen I'm looking, not seemingly booming these days. It seems to be a bit slow. Well, the first part is, is that correct, is the US growth slower than it's been through the winter? And what is your expectation on the other side of the summer in terms of activity out to the US Gulf?

聽起來很明智。對我來說，關於市場方面的最後一個問題是，至少從我看到的螢幕上看，你是否看到美國海灣地區這些天似乎並不繁榮。好像有點慢。嗯，第一部分是，這是正確的嗎，美國的成長速度是否比整個冬天都要慢？您對夏季另一邊前往美國海灣的活動有何期望？

So I think the activity within the US Gulf often depends a lot about the opportunities, and sometimes, they're more open and sometimes they're more closed and they may attract the liftings within that month. But what's for sure is that the West is tight and the West has been attracting ships from the East, and that's what's been ballasting the East as well. So there is activity from the West and it has helped bring up the East rates and keep them out with the market ballast. So if your data showed that perhaps there's been a bit of a drop-off in the liftings out of the US Gulf and we see that revert to, let's say, last year's average, it should be really bullish, it should be relatively bullish on the market because there will be these cargoes and the West is already tight, and it will force more people to ballast.

因此，我認為美灣地區的活動通常很大程度上取決於機會，有時，它們更開放，有時它們更封閉，它們可能會在該月內吸引提貨。但可以肯定的是，西方市場緊張，西方市場一直在吸引來自東方的船隻，而這也一直在壓載東方。因此，西方的活動有助於提高東方的利率，並將其排除在市場鎮流器之外。因此，如果您的數據顯示，美國海灣地區的運輸量可能有所下降，並且我們看到恢復到去年的平均水平，那麼它應該非常看漲，應該相對看漲市場因為會有這些貨物而西方已經緊張，這將迫使更多的人壓載。

And yeah, so overall, we're positive. I think it's just a matter of time until we have one of those drivers that I mentioned, it's either more supply from OPEC or seasonality coming into play or some other geopolitical issue that really puts this market on the next level up.

是的，總的來說，我們持正面態度。我認為，我們遲早會遇到我提到的驅動因素之一，要么是歐佩克的供應增加，要么是季節性因素發揮作用，要么是其他一些地緣政治問題，真正讓這個市場更上一層樓。

Okay, thank you, that is all from me.

好的，謝謝，這就是我的全部。

Thanks, Petter.

謝謝，彼得。

Thanks, Petter

謝謝，彼得

Bendik Nyttingnes, Clarksons Securities.

本迪克‧尼廷尼斯 (Bendik Nyttingnes)，克拉克森證券公司。

Thank you. Good afternoon, guys.

謝謝。下午好，夥計們。

Good afternoon. Hi, dude.

午安.嗨，夥計。

Hi. You're now 100% spot, which is where you want to be at this point in the cycle. But is there any level or range where you'll start to lock in earnings, or any sort of dynamics that would have to change before you change your strategy?

你好。現在你已經 100% 到位了，這就是你在週期中想要達到的位置。但是，在你改變策略之前，是否有任何水平或範圍可以開始鎖定收益，或者是否有任何類型的動態必須改變？

Well, I mean like most Greeks, our rate ideas are always 5,000 or 10,000 above the market. So whether they go up tomorrow, they'll probably readjust upwards. But we have some numbers that we think are attractive for five-year deals. I think as the market strengthens, the three year deal owners will start commanding a longer term period deals in order to give their ships away, and we’ll move into potential deal that can more commonly for five years.

嗯，我的意思是像大多數希臘人一樣，我們的利率理念總是比市場高 5,000 或 10,000。因此，無論明天是否上漲，它們都可能會向上調整。但我們認為有些數字對於五年期交易來說很有吸引力。我認為，隨著市場的走強，三年期交易的所有者將開始簽訂更長期的交易，以便放棄他們的船舶，而我們將進入更常見的五年期的潛在交易。

And if we get to the levels that we consider attractive, we definitely would fix out the ships. I don't think that that potential will come this year, but going forward into 2025 when we really see the tightness or the lack of supply and more oil on the water, it's a potential. It's definitely one of the things we're considering about at the time of the cycle where we need to capitalize this investment, but we really don't feel like we're that close to that point yet. There's still more upwards to go.

如果我們達到了我們認為有吸引力的水平，我們肯定會修復這些船隻。我認為今年不會出現這種潛力，但進入 2025 年，當我們真正看到供應緊張或供應不足以及水上石油更多時，這是一種潛力。這絕對是我們在需要利用這項投資的周期時考慮的事情之一，但我們真的覺得我們還沒有那麼接近這一點。還有更多的事情要做。

Makes sense. And if I can just have one more question. You mentioned that the appetite for adding assets is very high now. But if you were to grow, would you prefer VLs or the Suezmax segment and why?

說得通。我還能再問一個問題嗎？您提到現在增加資產的意願非常高。但如果您要發展，您會更喜歡 VL 還是 Suezmax 部分，為什麼？

It depends. Overall, I mean, the VLCC market is less ordered at the moment. So we'd probably lean on the VLCC market. The VLCC market also has become a lot more flexible and you're able to triangulate the ships a lot more than what you were five years ago. So having, as I mentioned earlier, to B. Riley, that design of our fleet being relatively nimble and having good relationships.

這取決於。總的來說，我的意思是，目前 VLCC 市場的訂單較少。所以我們可能會依賴 VLCC 市場。VLCC 市場也變得更加靈活，與五年前相比，您能夠對船舶進行更多的三角測量。因此，正如我之前向 B. Riley 提到的，我們機隊的設計相對靈活並且擁有良好的關係。

Having more VLCCs and having these niche backhaul opportunities or front haul cargoes, today, I would say that we'd prefer to expand into the VLCC market, if you force us.

擁有更多的 VLCC 並擁有這些利基回程機會或前程貨物，今天，我想說，如果你強迫我們的話，我們更願意擴展到 VLCC 市場。

Or if you got us a good deal.

或者如果你為我們帶來了優惠。

Okay, thank you.

好的謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Eirik Haavaldsen, Pareto Securities.

Eirik Haavaldsen，帕累託證券。

HI, guys, I mean, I'm guessing a lot of questions, of course, we've touched upon it already on the outperformance, because I mean, it is a, as Petter said, a little bit hard to comprehend. I just see that you've done a few corridors out of the Black Sea, it seems like, at least in Q2 so far on Suezmaxes. So just wanted to, I mean I realize CPC, there's, obviously, no sanctions. There's no issues related to it. But I mean a slightly higher risk, I would say, than mainstream Atlantic, Suezmax cargo.

嗨，夥計們，我的意思是，我猜有很多問題，當然，我們已經談到了出色的表現，因為我的意思是，正如彼得所說，這有點難以理解。我只是看到你們已經在黑海之外完成了幾條走廊，至少在第二季度到目前為止，蘇伊士型油輪是這樣。所以我只是想，我的意思是我意識到 CPC，顯然沒有製裁。不存在與之相關的問題。但我想說的是，與主流大西洋蘇伊士型貨物相比，風險略高。

So just wanted to hear your thinking around that and how you're comfortable doing that? And then, secondly, also on the VLCCs, it looks also like you've done some cargoes at least two up to Venezuela. Again, no issues, no sanction, nothing at all. But just wanting to understand the premiums you're able to get there and and your thinking around that?

所以只是想聽聽您對此的想法以及您是否願意這樣做？其次，在 VLCC 上，看起來你們也已經向委內瑞拉運送了至少兩艘貨物。再說一次，沒有問題，沒有製裁，什麼都沒有。但只是想了解您可以獲得的保費以及您對此的想法？

Because, obviously, a few of the other listed companies are doing it now for whatever reason that might be. So just wanted to hear your thinking around that.

因為，顯然，其他一些上市公司現在正在這樣做，無論出於何種原因。所以只是想聽聽你對此的想法。

Yeah, I mean that sounds like sour grapes. But sure, we can answer that. Look, I think if you look at where ships load crude oil, other than Norway and the US Gulf, almost every other place is a place that has an additional worst premium that you need insurance for, whether it's West Africa, whether it's the AG, whether it's Libya, whether it's the Black Sea. If you look at, like, let's say, if we do some statistics and see where have there been more incidents on VLCCs or Suezmaxes, I think the most dangerous place you could go is probably AG.

是的，我的意思是，這聽起來像是酸葡萄心理。但當然，我們可以回答這個問題。聽著，我想如果你看看船舶裝載原油的地方，除了挪威和美國海灣之外，幾乎所有其他地方都有額外的最差保費，你需要保險，無論是西非，無論是AG ，無論是利比亞，無論是黑海。如果你看一下，比如說，如果我們做一些統計，看看哪裡的 VLCC 或蘇伊士型油輪發生的事故更多，我認為你可能去的最危險的地方可能是 AG。

I wouldn't say it's the Black Sea. I know it's definitely not Libya or West Africa. And the AG is somewhere that everyone goes. The Suezmax cargoes that we lifted from the Black Sea in 2024, they were all from CPC and I think most of them were fixtures to US oil majors.

我不會說這是黑海。我知道這絕對不是利比亞或西非。AG是每個人都會去的地方。我們2024年從黑海打撈的蘇伊士型油輪貨物，全部來自CPC，我認為其中大部分是美國石油巨頭的固定貨物。

We haven't carried any Russian oil under the price cap in 2024 or in most in 2023, since the beginning of 2023. So the outperformance is cargoes that are available and safe. I don't think that there's any higher risk of loading in Libya, West Africa, Venezuela, Black Sea, then, there is in the AG, and the AG is somewhere where everyone goes, as I said. And our job, of course, safety is a concern and the crews, they've been with my family for some of them for 25 years, so there's a very close relationship with these people.

自 2023 年初以來，我們在 2024 年或大多數 2023 年都沒有將任何俄羅斯石油置於價格上限之下。因此，表現出色的是可用且安全的貨物。我不認為利比亞、西非、委內瑞拉、黑海有更高的裝載風險，那麼，AG 也有，AG 是每個人都會去的地方，就像我說的。當然，我們的工作，安全是一個問題，而工作人員，他們中的一些人已經和我的家人一起工作了 25 年，所以我們和這些人的關係非常密切。

But once we get past and we feel comfortable with the safety, our job is to make as much money for the shareholders as we can. And some of these cargoes that we can find are also because of the relationships we have, which we mentioned earlier. And perhaps, some of the companies that use like tools or especially the pools, which don't have the relationships we have, they won't get access to these cargoes. So I think it's more active rather than risk.

但一旦我們度過了難關，並且對安全感到滿意，我們的工作就是為股東賺盡可能多的錢。而我們能找到的一些貨物也是因為我們之前提到的關係。也許，一些使用類似工具的公司，特別是使用池的公司，由於與我們沒有關係，他們將無法獲得這些貨物。所以我認為它更積極而不是冒險。

Very good, thank you. No sour grapes, just turning in questions being asked because I get them. So I have to ask.

非常感謝。沒有酸葡萄心理，只是把別人問的問題交出來，因為我明白了。所以我不得不問。

No, not by you, by the person asking.

不，不是你說的，而是問問題的人說的。

Okay, all right, thank you, guys.

好的，好的，謝謝大家。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thanks, Eirik.

謝謝，埃里克。

Climent Molins, Value Investors Edge.

克萊門特·莫林斯，價值投資者邊緣。

Good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. Most have already been covered, but I have a couple of modeling questions. First, it's still maybe a bit early to tell, but should we expect a negative effect from load to discharge accounting on the back end of the quarter?

早安.感謝您回答我的問題。大多數內容已經涵蓋，但我有幾個建模問題。首先，現在下結論可能還為時過早，但我們是否應該預期本季末裝卸核算會產生負面影響？

And secondly, general and administrative expenses increased noticeably quarter-over-quarter. Is this attributable to the US listing and should we expect this to be a one-off?

其次，一般和管理費用較上季顯著成長。這是否歸因於在美國上市？

Yes, Climent, hey, I'll answer both. On the ballast days in the load to discharge, it's still a bit early to have a clear picture for what's going to happen at the end of the quarter. So I would expect a slight effect like we see quarter-on-quarter. Obviously, one thing to keep in mind, and I think it's quite evident by the results that we report every three months that it's beneficial to look at both the actual results of the reported quarter as well as the guidance figures for the next one together, because there's obviously a relationship. And when we do see an impact towards the end of the quarter, obviously, this is always captured in the following one.

是的，克萊門特，嘿，我會回答兩個。在負載放電的鎮流器日，要清楚了解本季末將發生的情況還為時過早。因此，我預計會出現像季度環比那樣的輕微影響。顯然，需要記住一件事，我認為從我們每三個月報告一次的結果中可以明顯看出，同時查看報告季度的實際結果以及下一個季度的指導數據是有益的，因為顯然存在某種關係。當我們確實在季度末看到影響時，顯然，這總是在下一個中得到體現。

On G&A, you rightly point out. I mean, since last year, there's been an increase in our G&A expenses. The US listing element has two sides. One -- we've been hit by that, mostly in 2023, it's what I would call is one-off expenses. And some of that has actually been incurred this side of the year as well as some of the expenses we received towards the end of the year.

關於一般行政費用，您正確地指出了這一點。我的意思是，自去年以來，我們的一般管理費用有所增加。美國上市的要素有兩個面向。第一，我們受到了這一打擊，主要是在 2023 年，我稱之為一次性支出。其中一些實際上是在今年上半年發生的，以及我們在年底收到的一些費用。

But there is also an element of the ongoing expenses that we will incur due to our listing in the US and, in fact, due to our dual listing. So some of the increased administrative expenses, unfortunately, is here to stay. I think our target and looking at the budgets and how it looked like last year, our target is to do better through the rest of the year compared to last year. But I wouldn't expect it to be anywhere close to 2022. So I think that's a range with something closer to 2023.

但由於我們在美國上市，事實上，由於我們雙重上市，我們還將產生一些持續成本。因此，不幸的是，一些增加的管理費用將繼續存在。我認為我們的目標是，考慮到預算以及去年的情況，我們的目標是在今年剩餘時間內比去年做得更好。但我預計它不會在接近 2022 年的時候出現。所以我認為這個範圍更接近 2023 年。

Now, having said all that, it's a bit hard to extrapolate the total expense for the entire year if you look at individual quarters, because there is quite a significant variation between quarters. And I do expect that both Q1 and Q2 will be higher than what we see towards the rest of the year to keep that in mind.

話雖如此，如果您查看各個季度，則很難推斷出全年的總費用，因為季度之間存在相當大的差異。記住這一點，我確實預計第一季和第二季的業績將高於我們今年剩餘時間的預期。

That's very helpful. Thank you. That's all for me. Congratulations for the quarter.

這非常有幫助。謝謝。這就是我的全部。恭喜本季。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

As there are no additional questions waiting at this time, I'd like to hand the conference back over to Iraklis for closing remarks.

由於目前沒有其他問題，我想將會議交還給伊拉克利斯進行閉幕發言。

Perfect. Thanks, everyone, for listening in. I think it was a quite productive call. We look forward to speaking again in August. Thank you.

完美的。謝謝大家的收聽。我認為這是一次非常有成效的通話。我們期待八月再次發言。謝謝。

Thank you very much. Have a nice afternoon.

非常感謝。祝你有個愉快的下午。