Doma Holdings Inc (DOMA) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Hello, and welcome to the Doma fourth-quarter and full year 2023 earnings conference call. (technical difficulty) At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. (Operator Instructions) Once again, please be advised that today's conference is being recorded.

您好，歡迎參加 Doma 第四季和 2023 年全年財報電話會議。（技術難度）此時，所有參與者都處於只聽模式。（操作員指示）再次提醒您，今天的會議正在錄製中。

It is now my pleasure to introduce Chief Strategy Officer and Interim Head of Investor Relations, Dave DeHorn.

現在我很高興向大家介紹首席策略長兼投資者關係臨時主管戴夫‧德霍恩 (Dave DeHorn)。

Thank you, operator. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining Doma's fourth-quarter and full year 2023 earnings conference call. Earlier today, Doma issued a press release announcing its fourth-quarter and full year results, which is also available at investor.doma.com. Leading today's discussion will be Doma's Founder and Chief Executive Officer, Max Simkoff.

謝謝你，接線生。大家下午好，感謝您參加 Doma 第四季和 2023 年全年財報電話會議。今天早些時候，Doma 發布了一份新聞稿，宣布其第四季度和全年業績，該新聞稿也可在 Investor.doma.com 上取得。 Doma 的創始人兼執行長 Max Simkoff 將主持今天的討論。

Before we begin, I would like to remind you that our discussion will contain predictions, expectations, forward-looking statements and other information about our business that is based on management's current expectations as of the date of the presentation. Forward-looking statements include but are not limited to Doma's expectations or predictions of financial and business performance, market conditions, competitive position and interest industry outlook.

在我們開始之前，我想提醒您，我們的討論將包含預測、期望、前瞻性陳述和有關我們業務的其他信息，這些信息基於管理層截至演示之日的當前預期。前瞻性陳述包括但不限於 Doma 對財務和業務表現、市場狀況、競爭地位和利益產業前景的預期或預測。

Forward-looking statements are subject to risks, uncertainties and other factors that could cause our actual results to differ materially from historical results and or from our forecast, including those set forth in Doma's most recently filed annual report on Form 10-K and subsequent filings with the SEC. For more information, please refer to the risks, uncertainties and other factors discussed in Doma's most recently filed annual report on Form 10-K and other SEC filings.

前瞻性陳述受到風險、不確定性和其他因素的影響，這些因素可能導致我們的實際結果與歷史結果和/或我們的預測有重大差異，包括Doma 最近提交的10-K 表格年度報告和後續文件中規定的內容與美國證券交易委員會。欲了解更多信息，請參閱 Doma 最近提交的 10-K 表格年度報告和其他 SEC 文件中討論的風險、不確定性和其他因素。

All cautionary statements that we make during this call are applicable to any forward-looking statements. We make wherever they appear. You should carefully consider the risks and uncertainties and other factors discussed in Doma's SEC filings. Do not place undue reliance on forward-looking statements as Doma is under no obligation and expressly disclaims any responsibility for updating, altering or otherwise revising any forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise, except as required by law.

我們在本次電話會議中所做的所有警告性聲明均適用於任何前瞻性聲明。無論它們出現在哪裡，我們都會製造。您應該仔細考慮 Doma 的 SEC 文件中討論的風險和不確定性以及其他因素。請勿過度依賴前瞻性陳述，因為 Doma 不承擔任何義務，並明確不承擔更新、更改或以其他方式修改任何前瞻性陳述的責任，無論是由於新資訊、未來事件還是其他原因，除非有要求根據法律。

Additionally, during this conference call, we will also refer to non-GAAP financial measures including retained premium and fees, adjusted gross profit, adjusted EBITDA and the other measures described in our earnings release. Our GAAP results and a description of our non-GAAP measures with a full reconciliation to GAAP can be found in the fourth-quarter and full year 2023 earnings release, which has been filed with the SEC and is available on our investor website.

此外，在本次電話會議中，我們還將參考非公認會計準則財務指標，包括留存保費和費用、調整後毛利、調整後 EBITDA 以及我們收益報告中所述的其他指標。我們的GAAP 結果以及我們的非GAAP 措施的描述以及與GAAP 的全面調節可以在第四季度和2023 年全年收益發布中找到，該發布已向SEC 備案，並可在我們的投資者網站上查看。

And with that, I'll turn to turn the call over to Max Simkoff, CEO of Doma.

接下來，我將把電話轉給 Doma 執行長 Max Simkoff。

Thank you, Dave. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining our fourth-quarter and full year 2023 earnings call. 2023 was a transformational year for Doma. As we continue to navigate challenging market conditions.

謝謝你，戴夫。大家下午好，感謝您參加我們的 2023 年第四季和全年財報電話會議。 2023 年對 Doma 來說是轉型的一年。隨著我們繼續應對充滿挑戰的市場條件。

We successfully executed significant cost reduction actions, divested our non-core local agency operations and streamlined our business to focus on our core strengths and support our and valuable customer. We narrowed our strategy to better address the ever growing market demand for more affordable and tech-driven title insurance offerings, including the launch of an innovative new product pilot called upfront title.

我們成功地執行了顯著的成本削減行動，剝離了非核心的本地代理業務，並精簡了我們的業務，以專注於我們的核心優勢並支持我們和有價值的客戶。我們縮小了策略範圍，以更好地滿足市場對更實惠、技術驅動的產權保險產品不斷增長的需求，包括推出名為「預付產權」的創新新產品試點。

This transformation was made possible by the incredible team that we have built here at Doma. I want to start by thanking each of you for your hard work and contribution to get us where we are today.

這一轉變是由我們在 Doma 建立的令人難以置信的團隊實現的。首先，我要感謝你們每一個人的辛勤工作和貢獻，讓我們取得了今天的成就。

Turning to our fourth-quarter results, we will discuss four key themes on the call today.

談到我們的第四季業績，我們將在今天的電話會議上討論四個關鍵主題。

First, I will provide an update on our path to reaching adjusted EBITDA profitability.

首先，我將介紹我們實現調整後 EBITDA 獲利能力的最新進展。

Second, I will provide an update on the implementation of our narrowed strategy for the business, including more detail on the launch for upfront title pilot and the early encouraging successes we have enjoyed.

其次，我將提供有關我們縮小業務策略實施情況的最新信息，包括有關啟動前期標題試點的更多詳細信息以及我們所取得的早期令人鼓舞的成功。

Third I want to take a few minutes to talk about the continued strength of our core underwriter platform, which demonstrated another quarter of strong performance despite difficult market conditions.

第三，我想花幾分鐘談談我們核心承銷商平台的持續實力，儘管市場條件困難，該平台仍表現出另一個季度的強勁表現。

Fourth, I will discuss how the recent groundswell in public and political support for more affordable housing solutions, specifically driven by a need for more innovative title insurance options as exhibited in last week's State of the Union address is something we believe we are uniquely positioned to address in ways that could deliver upside to our long-term success.

第四，我將討論最近公眾和政治對更多經濟適用住房解決方案的支持激增，特別是由於上週國情咨文中所展示的對更多創新產權保險方案的需求所推動，我們相信我們具有獨特的優勢以能夠為我們的長期成功帶來好處的方式進行解決。

Regarding our first theme, we successfully executed significant cost reduction actions in 2023, while still enhancing the customer service levels at our underwriter and our enterprise division, we struck a fine balance between reducing costs while still funding investments to support our future growth opportunities, particularly as it relates to our new strategy.

關於我們的第一個主題，我們在2023 年成功執行了重大​​成本削減行動，同時仍然提高了承銷商和企業部門的客戶服務水平，我們在降低成本和仍然為投資提供資金以支持我們未來成長機會之間取得了良好的平衡，特別是因為它與我們的新策略有關。

While we saw just shy of our ambitious goal of reaching adjusted EBITDA profitability in Q4, primarily due to the continued degradation of the interest rate environment. We are encouraged by the significant improvement we made in our adjusted EBITDA and P&L.

儘管我們認為第四季度實現調整後 EBITDA 獲利能力的雄心勃勃的目標還差一些，但這主要是由於利率環境的持續惡化。我們對調整後的 EBITDA 和損益表取得的顯著改善感到鼓舞。

Our adjusted EBITDA loss for continuing operations was $3 million in Q4, an improvement from our adjusted EBITDA loss for continuing operations of $5 million in Q3 of this year. As a more stark reminder, we've come a long way from our Q4 '22 EBITDA loss for continuing operations of $11 million, and we are proud of the progress we've made despite narrowly missing our target this quarter.

第四季持續經營業務調整後 EBITDA 損失為 300 萬美元，比今年第三季持續經營業務調整後 EBITDA 損失 500 萬美元有所改善。更鮮明的提醒是，我們距離 22 年第 4 季持續營運 EBITDA 虧損 1,100 萬美元已經有了很大的進步，儘管我們本季的目標僅差一點，但我們對所取得的進展感到自豪。

Looking ahead, as we have previously discussed, Q1 is typically a seasonal low point for the housing market, which combined with continued macroeconomic uncertainty, presents risks to achieving adjusted EBITDA profitability in the first-quarter and first half of the year. But overall, we are encouraged by the significant improvement in our cost structure, which enabled us to get within striking distance of our goal.

展望未來，正如我們之前所討論的，第一季度通常是房地產市場的季節性低點，加上持續的宏觀經濟不確定性，給第一季度和上半年實現調整後EBITDA 盈利能力帶來了風險。但總體而言，我們對成本結構的顯著改善感到鼓舞，這使我們距離目標已經很近了。

Now that we have significantly reduced our cost structure. Our efforts and our focus going forward are on growing our revenue and expanding our margins through realization of operational improvement. We believe the implementation of our new strategy will be key to achieving these goals. And we are extremely encouraged by the external support we are getting from our customers as we navigate through change.

現在我們已經顯著降低了成本結構。我們未來的努力和重點是透過實現營運改善來增加收入並擴大利潤。我們相信新策略的實施將是實現這些目標的關鍵。在我們應對變革的過程中，我們從客戶那裡獲得的外部支持讓我們深受鼓舞。

This brings me to the second key theme of our earnings call, an update on our upfront title pilot program, which we launched in the first quarter of this year. As we discussed in our last couple of quarterly earnings calls. Our go-forward business strategy is centered around providing solutions to the growing market chorus for more affordable and tech-enabled title insurance and technology solutions.

這讓我想到了我們財報電話會議的第二個關鍵主題，即我們在今年第一季推出的前期標題試點計劃的最新情況。正如我們在最近幾次季度財報電話會議中討論的那樣。我們的前瞻性業務策略的核心是為不斷成長的市場提供解決方案，以提供更實惠且技術支援的產權保險和技術解決方案。

Housing affordability remains a critical issue for many Americans, by licensing our patented instant underwriting technology upstream directly to the largest mortgage market participants in the country. And while continuing to serve independent agents through our underwriting channel.

對許多美國人來說，住房負擔能力仍然是一個關鍵問題，我們將我們的專利即時核保技術直接授權給美國最大的抵押貸款市場參與者。同時繼續透過我們的核保管道為獨立代理商提供服務。

We are confident that we can meet market demands and ultimately bring down costs for homeowners who are in critical need of relief. The unfortunate reality is that most homes for sale in 2023 were not affordable for a typical US household. According to an analysis by Redfin, just 15.5% of homes for sale in 2023 were affordable for the typical US household, the lowest share on record.

我們有信心能夠滿足市場需求，並最終降低急需救濟的房主的成本。不幸的現實是，2023 年大多數待售房屋對於普通美國家庭來說是無法負擔的。根據 Redfin 的分析，到 2023 年，只有 15.5% 的待售房屋對於普通美國家庭來說是可以負擔得起的，這是有史以​​來的最低比例。

According to the National Association of Realtors data, the national median price for an existing single-family home jumped 3.5% from a year prior. They cite that home prices continued to surge in the fourth-quarter of 2023 in the majority of major US metros and some markets even posted double digit gains. While interest rates have begun to cool, they still remain elevated, which combined with low supply, have created affordability challenges for many families.

根據全國房地產經紀人協會的數據，全國現有單戶住宅的中位數價格比一年前上漲了 3.5%。他們指出，2023 年第四季美國大多數主要大都市的房價持續飆升，一些市場甚至出現了兩位數的漲幅。儘管利率已開始降溫，但仍居高不下，再加上供應量低，給許多家庭帶來了負擔能力的挑戰。

We applaud the industry participants. We're exploring new and innovative options to help the closing costs, especially for low-income first-time homebuyer. It is clear to us that Americans desperately need relief. We believe that our narrowed strategy positions us well to address this critical issue by offering a much lower-cost and more streamlined solution for homeowners.

我們為產業參與者鼓掌。我們正在探索新的和創新的選擇來幫助降低成交成本，特別是對於低收入的首次購房者。我們很清楚，美國人迫切需要救濟。我們相信，我們的縮小策略使我們能夠透過為房主提供成本更低、更簡化的解決方案來解決這一關鍵問題。

Through the launch of our groundbreaking pilot product upfront title, which we discussed on our Q3 call, we believe we will have a strong competitive advantage to deliver a far better, faster and more affordable suite of title solutions to American Homes. As a reminder, our upfront title insurance product will enable us to provide an instant title underwriting decision as well as rate and coverage quoting all within or in communication with the core platforms used to determine eligibility for loan underwriting itself.

透過推出突破性的試點產品預付產權（我們在第三季電話會議上對此進行了討論），我們相信我們將擁有強大的競爭優勢，為美國家庭提供更好、更快、更實惠的產權解決方案套件。提醒一下，我們的預付產權保險產品將使我們能夠提供即時的產權承保決定以及報價和保險範圍，所有這些都在核心平台內或與核心平台通信，用於確定貸款承保本身的資格。

Specifically, we have designed the product to integrate seamlessly with, number one mortgage software systems utilized by large lenders to process borrower demand and issue prequalification decisions for mortgages.

具體來說，我們設計的產品能夠與大型貸方使用的第一個抵押貸款軟體系統無縫集成，以處理借款人的需求並發布抵押貸款資格預審決定。

And number two, the core automated underwriting systems utilized by the government-sponsored enterprises. By offering our new upfront title product and mortgage software platforms as well as the GSEs directly, we will enable the lender customers of these platforms to obtain instant title certainty at the point of deciding whether or not to underwrite the loan as well as to provide their homeowner customers a price generally far below current industry standard rates for title insurance.

第二，政府資助企業使用的核心自動化承保系統。透過直接提供我們新的前期產權產品和抵押軟體平台以及 GSE，我們將使這些平台的貸方客戶在決定是否承銷貸款以及提供他們的貸款時獲得即時產權確定性。房主客戶的產權保險價格通常遠低於目前行業標準費率。

Additionally, overtime configuration of our technology will help us shift more of our revenue toward higher-margin software licensing revenue. On our Q3 call, we announced an initial partnership with one of the largest mortgage technology platforms in the country to launch our upfront title product, the pilot program.

此外，我們技術的加班配置將幫助我們將更多收入轉向利潤率更高的軟體授權收入。在第三季的電話會議上，我們宣布與全國最大的抵押貸款技術平台之一建立初步合作夥伴關係，推出我們的預付產權產品，即試點計劃。

We are delighted to announce today that earlier in Q1 '24 on early stage configurations, as pilot programs successfully launched ahead of schedule, we are already seeing encouraging early results and they are helping to validate that the future could bring a transformational new configuration, which can deliver both meaningful savings and benefits to consumers and lenders alike.

我們今天很高興地宣布，在24 年第一季早些時候，關於早期配置，隨著試點計劃提前成功啟動，我們已經看到了令人鼓舞的早期結果，它們正在幫助驗證未來可能會帶來變革性的新配置，這可以為消費者和貸方帶來有意義的節省和利益。

We believe that based on these early results that we are on track and if we are successful demonstrating pilot program success in the first half of this year, we would be in a position to expand our partnership in the second half of the year, both on a geographic basis and also by offering a more enhanced upfront title product configuration to additional lenders and mortgage technology platforms.

我們相信，基於這些早期結果，我們已步入正軌，如果我們能夠在今年上半年成功展示試點計劃的成功，我們將能夠在今年下半年擴大我們的合作夥伴關係，無論是在地理基礎，並通過向其他貸款人和抵押貸款技術平台提供更增強的前期產權產品配置。

While we are very encouraged by the early results, we do not expect revenue from this pilot program to be material in the first half of the year. We are thrilled to be partnering both with one of the largest mortgage technology platforms in the country and a major national lender customer to launch this innovative product and believe that the value proposition that we offer to this initial lender will be just as strong with other lender customers.

雖然我們對早期結果感到非常鼓舞，但我們預計今年上半年試點計畫的收入不會很大。我們很高興能夠與該國最大的抵押技術平台之一和主要的國家貸款客戶合作推出這項創新產品，並相信我們為該初始貸款人提供的價值主張將與其他貸款人一樣強大顧客。

And our technology platform partner has built an impressive customer base. So we are excited about our ability to expand within this partner's platform given their scale and market presence. For the upfront title product, Doma's underwriting division will provide the title insurance policy while the escrow and closing services may be performed either internally or provided by external partners, which we believe will enable us to scale our product efficiently.

我們的技術平台合作夥伴已經建立了令人印象深刻的客戶群。因此，考慮到該合作夥伴的規模和市場影響力，我們對在該合作夥伴的平台內進行擴展的能力感到非常興奮。對於前期產權產品，Doma 的核保部門將提供產權保險單，而託管和結算服務可以在內部執行或由外部合作夥伴提供，我們相信這將使我們能夠有效地擴展我們的產品。

Our intent is to accelerate our go-to-market strategy and work over the next few quarters to expand our reach so that we can deliver meaningful cost savings to homeowners. As part of our go-forward strategy, and in parallel with the distribution of our technology on a license basis, our title insurance underwriting business and our independent agent customers remain of critical importance and will continue to be a core part of our business.

我們的目的是加快我們的市場策略，並在接下來的幾季擴大我們的覆蓋範圍，以便為房主帶來有意義的成本節約。作為我們前進策略的一部分，與基於許可的技術分銷並行，我們的產權保險承保業務和獨立代理客戶仍然至關重要，並將繼續成為我們業務的核心部分。

This brings me to the third key theme of our earnings call, which is to provide an update on our core underwriting platform and its strong performance despite continued difficult market conditions. Our fourth- quarter underwriting division retained premiums and fees and adjusted gross profit increased 7% and 22%, respectively, compared to the third-quarter.

這讓我想到了我們財報電話會議的第三個關鍵主題，即提供我們核心核保平台的最新資訊及其在市場條件持續困難的情況下的強勁表現。與第三季相比，我們第四季的承保部門保留保費和費用以及調整後的毛利分別增加了 7% 和 22%。

During the fourth-quarter the underwriter performance was aided by the strength in the homebuilder portion of the business and positive improvement in gross profit resulting from favorable reserve develop. And we also expect to see continued positive momentum in our underwriting business, benefiting from lower costs driven by our most recent cost reduction actions.

第四季度，承銷商的業績得益於房屋建築商業務的強勁以及有利的儲備開發帶來的毛利的積極改善。我們也預計，我們的核保業務將繼續保持積極勢頭，受益於我們最近的成本削減行動帶來的成本降低。

We continue to want significant tech initiatives in our underwriting division, which have been instrumental to our success. For example, we launched numerous APIs with major title production systems in areas like CPL policy jackets and title production. We also launched online pay systems, allowing our agents to make their remittances electronically with the click of a button.

我們仍然希望我們的核保部門能夠採取重大的技術舉措，這對我們的成功至關重要。例如，我們在 CPL 保單封面和遊戲製作等領域推出了眾多具有主要遊戲製作系統的 API。我們還推出了線上支付系統，使我們的代理商只需單擊按鈕即可以電子方式進行匯款。

And lastly, we launched our new revamped agent education portal, Doma Academy offering CECLE credits to our agents to satisfy licensing requirements. We believe our continued rollout of our innovative technology will benefit our independent agent focused title production team by saving them time and expense while also enabling them to improve their efficiency through a partnership with Doma.

最後，我們推出了全新改版的代理商教育入口網站 Doma Academy，為我們的代理商提供 CECLE 學分，以滿足許可要求。我們相信，我們不斷推出的創新技術將有利於我們以獨立代理為中心的遊戲製作團隊，節省他們的時間和費用，同時也使他們能夠透過與 Doma 的合作來提高效率。

Our independent agent community remains a critical importance to Doma, and we are pleased to continue growing our community by onboarding new agents. We saw meaningful growth in the number of independent agent customers, we service having added 130 new customer relationships during 2023.

我們的獨立代理商社群對於 Doma 仍然至關重要，我們很高興透過引入新代理商來繼續發展我們的社群。我們看到獨立代理客戶數量顯著成長，我們的服務在 2023 年增加了 130 個新客戶關係。

Lastly, we saw positive results from our partnership with Lennar, which is the nation's largest homebuilder with the chronic supply shortage of homes and increasing demand for housing. We remain excited to partner with Lennar in order to continue servicing their title.

最後，我們看到了與 Lennar 的合作取得的積極成果，Lennar 是美國最大的住宅建築商，其住房供應長期短缺，但住房需求不斷增加。我們仍然很高興與 Lennar 合作，繼續為他們的頭銜提供服務。

Before wrapping up, I would like to touch on the fourth key theme of our earnings call. The public and political support for more affordable housing outcomes being driven specifically through more innovative Title Insurance Solutions has grown significantly. Even in just the last few weeks. And we believe we are extremely well positioned to address one specific opportunity that emerged coming out of last week's State of the Union address.

在結束之前，我想談談我們財報電話會議的第四個關鍵主題。透過更具創新性的產權保險解決方案，公眾和政治對更多經濟適用住房成果的支持顯著增加。即使是在最近幾週。我們相信，我們處於非常有利的位置，可以抓住上週在國情咨文中出現的一個具體機會。

As you may have seen in his address last week, President Joe Biden announced his plan to lower housing costs for the millions of Americans who are struggling to afford the American dream of homeownership. And he specifically mentioned, they focus on reducing title insurance costs. In a separate announcement immediately ahead of the President's address, the Federal Housing Finance Agency announced that they have approved a pilot to waive the requirement for lenders, title insurance on certain refinances, FHFA's director, Sandra Thompson further clarified that this quote unquote title acceptance pilot.

正如您可能在上週的演講中看到的那樣，喬·拜登總統宣布了他的計劃，以降低數百萬美國人的住房成本，這些美國人正在努力實現擁有住房的美國夢。他特別提到，他們專注於降低產權保險費用。在總統演講之前的另一份公告中，聯邦住房金融局宣布，他們已批准一項試點，以免除對某些再融資的貸方和產權保險的要求，FHFA 主任桑德拉·湯普森(Sandra Thompson)進一步澄清，此報價不引用產權接受試點。

We'll waive the requirement for lenders, title insurance or legal opinion on certain low risk refinance transactions where there is confidence that the property is free and clear of any prior lien or encumbrance. The pilot only impacts the requirement for our lenders, title policy or AOL and does not impact our borrowers title risk.

如果確信該財產沒有任何先前的留置權或產權負擔，我們將免除對某些低風險再融資交易的貸款人、產權保險或法律意見的要求。該試點僅影響對貸款人、產權保單或 AOL 的要求，不會影響借款人的產權風險。

Since it only applies to certain refinance loans where the borrower has title to the property. We believe that Doma, is one of the only players in our space who has the proven technology and underwriting capabilities to participate in the pilot program announced by FHFA. Our patented technology, which has been proven out over nearly 85,000 loans is able to automate the bulk of the title search and exam process for the majority of conforming refinance transactions.

因為它僅適用於借款人擁有財產所有權的某些再融資貸款。我們相信 Doma 是我們領域中唯一擁有成熟技術和承保能力來參與 FHFA 宣布的試點計劃的參與者之一。我們的專利技術已在近 85,000 筆貸款中得到驗證，能夠實現大多數合規再融資交易的大部分產權搜尋和檢查流程的自動化。

Regardless of geography, borrower profile or other traditional manual underwriting characteristics that have been used. Our tech has also proven that we consistently reduce time to close by several days and enables significantly lower fulfillment costs for mortgage originators. All while exhibiting similar claims rates as the traditional title process.

無論地理位置、借款人概況或已使用的其他傳統手動承保特徵如何。我們的技術也證明，我們能夠持續將成交時間縮短幾天，並大幅降低抵押貸款發起人的履行成本。同時表現出與傳統產權流程相似的索賠率。

And because our technology operates using a completely automated front end, we can not only provide it as a licensed offering to the GSEs for the majority of refinances that they purchased from lenders. If they should decide that this configuration would best support the FHFA's announced pilot, but also provide a seamless and instant integration with any lender who might choose to participate in this program.

由於我們的技術使用完全自動化的前端運行，因此我們不僅可以將其作為授權產品提供給 GSE，用於他們從貸方購買的大部分再融資。如果他們認為此配置將最好地支援 FHFA 宣布的試點，但也能與可能選擇參與此計劃的任何貸方提供無縫和即時的整合。

Further, the external reporting that we've seen is correct in stating that Fannie Mae will be the first to launch this pilot, we have the added benefit of a relationship with Fannie Mae in helping evaluate and execute initiatives to drive more equitable and affordable homeownership outcomes.

此外，我們看到的外部報告正確地指出房利美將是第一個啟動該試點的國家，我們與房利美的關係還有一個額外的好處，那就是幫助評估和執行舉措，以推動更公平和負擔得起的住房所有權結果。

It's important to note that we've been dismayed by some of the commentary following last week's announcements that assume that the reported pilot program will both put the American dream of homeownership at risk as well as not benefit low income and or minority homeowners.

值得注意的是，我們對上周宣布的一些評論感到失望，這些評論認為所報導的試點計劃既會讓美國夢的住房所有權面臨風險，也不會讓低收入和/或少數族裔房主受益。

Specifically, FHFA confirmed in their statement last week that the pilot program will not introduce any new risk to borrowers. Additionally, we've seen reports by some industry trade organizations that assume based on FHFA's language in their announcement last week that the only transactions that qualify for the announced program would be those of wealthy homeowners, and implying that these will be non low income and or high credit score borrowers.

具體來說，FHFA 在上週的聲明中確認，該試點計劃不會給借款人帶來任何新的風險。此外，我們還看到一些行業貿易組織的報告，這些組織根據 FHFA 上週聲明中的措辭假設，唯一符合所宣布計劃的交易將是富裕房主的交易，並暗示這些交易將是非低收入且或高信用評分借款人。

Our own data from the past several years has shown that the majority of conforming refinances were completed by individuals who were below 120% of their area median income. The definition of lower moderate income utilized by the GSEs. And again, our technology was used to safely underwrite over 75% of these transactions.

我們過去幾年的數據顯示，大多數符合要求的再融資是由低於其所在地區中位數收入 120% 的個人完成的。GSE 所使用的中等偏下收入的定義。再次，我們的技術被用來安全地承保超過 75% 的交易。

So we have confidence that there are multiple paths for FHFA and the GSEs to ensure that whatever configuration they decide to implement of the announced pilot, it will likely have a significant impact on low and moderate-income homeowners who desperately need relief. Overall, we're excited by the actions taken by the administration and we share a desire and a sense of urgency to reduce closing costs for borrowers by a wide margin compared to traditional non technology-based solutions.

因此，我們相信，FHFA 和 GSE 有多種途徑可以確保他們決定對已宣布的試點實施何種配置，都可能對迫切需要救濟的中低收入房主產生重大影響。總體而言，我們對政府採取的行動感到興奮，與傳統的非技術解決方案相比，我們都希望和緊迫感大幅降低借款人的結帳成本。

We think that based on what we've heard about the announcements made last week that it's likely over time that the majority of the refinance universe should qualify for our more innovative approach to quantifying and helping the GSEs, assess and underwrite title risk, and we look forward to further exploring this opportunity.

我們認為，根據我們上週發布的公告，隨著時間的推移，再融資領域的大多數人都可能有資格採用我們更具創新性的方法來量化和幫助 GSE、評估和承保產權風險，並且我們期待進一步探索這個機會。

This is a great example of the kinds of innovation that could make a lasting impact on helping to alleviate housing affordability challenges in this country in a safe and appropriate manner.

這是一個很好的例子，說明各種創新可以對以安全和適當的方式幫助緩解該國的住房負擔能力挑戰產生持久影響。

In closing, I'd like to take a moment to celebrate the incredible work that has been done by the entire Doma team, our success as a direct result of your efforts and ability to navigate a continually challenging environment, we believe we have a reasonable amount of runway ahead of us, thanks to all of the cost savings initiatives of 2023 and our targeted go-to-market plan for 2024.

最後，我想花點時間慶祝整個 Doma 團隊所做的令人難以置信的工作，我們的成功是你們的努力和駕馭不斷充滿挑戰的環境的能力的直接結果，我們相信我們有一個合理的理由得歸功於2023 年的所有成本節約措施以及我們的2024 年目標上市計劃，我們還有很長的路要走。

I would also like to thank our investors and analysts for your continued support. It's obvious to us that consumers need better options to help relieve the housing affordability challenges they face. We are passionate about not only removing the friction and frustration from an antiquated process, but also for providing lower cost title solutions for all, especially to those who need it.

我還要感謝我們的投資人和分析師的持續支持。對我們來說，顯然消費者需要更好的選擇來幫助緩解他們面臨的住房負擔能力挑戰。我們不僅熱衷於消除過時流程中的摩擦和挫折感，而且熱衷於為所有人，尤其是那些需要它的人提供成本更低的產權解決方案。

I'll now turn over the time to Mike Smith, our CFO. Mike?

現在我將把時間交給我們的財務長 Mike Smith。麥克風？

Thank you, Max, and good afternoon, everyone. Today I'll be providing an overview of Doma's fourth-quarter financial results. Please refer to our earnings release issued earlier today for full details of the quarter and full year 2023. Unless otherwise specified all the comparisons I cited in my remarks are sequential comparisons to the third-quarter of 2023.

謝謝你，麥克斯，大家下午好。今天我將概述 Doma 第四季的財務表現。請參閱我們今天早些時候發布的收益報告，以了解 2023 年季度和全年的完整詳細資訊。除非另有說明，我在評論中引用的所有比較都是與 2023 年第三季的連續比較。

The latest NBA mortgage finance forecast is projecting that the 30-year fixed mortgage rate will remain above 6% for the duration of 2024. As we stated in the past these elevated rates will likely continue to put pressure on refinance and purchase order volumes industry-wide for the foreseeable future.

NBA 最新的抵押貸款融資預測預計，到 2024 年，30 年期固定抵押貸款利率將保持在 6% 以上。正如我們過去所說，在可預見的未來，這些高利率可能會繼續對全行業的再融資和採購訂單量帶來壓力。

As we discussed on our prior couple of earnings calls, we exited all of our local retail operations nationwide in 2023. We have completed all of the related transition periods, which have resulted in substantial savings and reductions of legacy local costs as a result of the sale of the local branches and their associated operations are classified and reported as discontinued operations in our financial results.

正如我們在之前的幾次財報電話會議上討論的那樣，我們將於 2023 年退出全國範圍內的所有本地零售業務。我們已經完成了所有相關的過渡期，由於出售當地分行及其相關業務在我們的財務業績中被歸類為非持續經營業務，因此節省了大量成本並減少了當地遺留成本。

My remaining comments are focused on our continuing operations. Overall, our primary measure of unit economics is adjusted gross profit, which was $8 million in the fourth-quarter of 2023, and which compares to $6 million in the third-quarter of 2023. Adjusted gross profit as a percentage of [RPNF] increased to 47% in the fourth-quarter compared to 39% in the third-quarter of 2023. And overall increase of 8 percentage points due to increase RPNF and lower provision for claims as a result of lower claim emergence and favorable changes in reserving assumptions.

我剩下的評論主要集中在我們的持續營運上。整體而言，我們衡量單位經濟效益的主要指標是調整後的毛利，2023 年第四季的毛利為 800 萬美元，而 2023 年第三季的毛利為 600 萬美元。第四季調整後毛利佔 [RPNF] 的百分比增至 47%，而 2023 年第三季為 39%。整體成長了 8 個百分點，原因是 RPNF 增加，索賠準備金減少（由於索賠出現率下降以及準備金假設的有利變化）。

Adjusted EBITDA, our main profitability measure was negative $3 million compared to negative $5 million in 3Q of 2023, an improvement of more than $2 million. This improvement was primarily the result of our previously discussed increase in RPNF lower provision for claims and our workforce reduction actions and company-wide efforts to reduce overall spend.

調整後的 EBITDA，我們的主要獲利能力指標為負 300 萬美元，而 2023 年第三季為負 500 萬美元，提高了超過 200 萬美元。這項改善主要是由於我們之前討論的 RPNF 索賠準備金減少、我們的裁員行動以及全公司範圍內減少總體支出的努力的結果。

Moving on to our top line performance. In the fourth quarter, we reported revenue on a GAAP basis of $85 million, which compares to $76 million in Q3 of 2023, an increase of 11%, primarily due to the continued strength seen in the homebuilder market. As a reminder, GAAP revenue includes a portion of agent premiums that Doma does not retain.

繼續我們的營收表現。第四季度，我們報告的以 GAAP 計算的收入為 8,500 萬美元，而 2023 年第三季為 7,600 萬美元，成長了 11%，這主要是由於住宅建築商市場的持續強勁。提醒一下，GAAP 收入包括 Doma 不保留的部分代理費。

So we focus on Doma's retained premiums and fees for RPNF as an important metric, which excludes the premium retained by third party agents. We believe this is a much better representation of Doma's underlying top line performance. With this in mind, RPNF was $17 million in the fourth-quarter, up 7% compared to the third-quarter of 2023, driven by strong homebuilder orders and stable independent agent results.

因此，我們將 Doma 的保留保費和 RPNF 費用作為重要指標，其中不包括第三方代理商保留的保費。我們相信這更能體現了 Doma 的基本營收表現。考慮到這一點，在強勁的房屋建築商訂單和穩定的獨立代理商業績的推動下，第四季度 RPNF 為 1700 萬美元，比 2023 年第三季度增長 7%。

Underwriting RPNF within our third party agent channel increased 12% in the fourth-quarter compared to the third-quarter, primarily from the continued strength in the homebuilder market I just mentioned.

與第三季相比，我們第三方代理商通路內的承保 RPNF 在第四季度增長了 12%，這主要是由於我剛才提到的房屋建築商市場的持續強勁。

As we noted on our prior earnings call, we are focusing on the performance of the underwriter. During the fourth-quarter the underwriter performance was aided by the strength in the homebuilder portion of the business and positive improvement in gross profit resulting from favorable reserve development.

正如我們在先前的財報電話會議上指出的那樣，我們關注承銷商的表現。第四季度，承銷商的業績得益於房屋建築商業務的強勁以及有利的儲備開發帶來的毛利的積極改善。

And we also expect to see continued positive momentum in our underwriting business, benefiting from lower costs driven by our most recent cost reduction actions. As Max mentioned, we look forward to executing on our new strategy, growing our revenues, expanding our margins, and we remain highly focused on becoming adjusted EBITDA profitable on a sustainable basis.

我們也預計，我們的核保業務將繼續保持積極勢頭，受益於我們最近的成本削減行動帶來的成本降低。正如馬克斯所提到的，我們期待執行我們的新策略，增加我們的收入，擴大我們的利潤，並且我們仍然高度關注在可持續的基礎上實現調整後的 EBITDA 盈利。

I'll now pass the call back to Max for closing remarks before we open the call to questions. Max?

現在，在我們開始提問之前，我將把電話轉回給馬克斯，讓他作結束語。最大限度？

Thanks, Mike, and thanks, everyone, for joining us on our call today, we remain focused on our critical mission of making the home-buying process better, faster and more affordable. Overall, 2023 was a transformational year for Doma. Throughout the year we made progress in positioning the business for the long term.

謝謝麥克，謝謝大家今天加入我們的電話會議，我們仍然專注於我們的關鍵使命，讓購屋過程變得更好、更快、更實惠。總體而言，2023 年對 Doma 來說是轉型的一年。全年我們在業務的長期定位方面取得了進展。

We significantly reduced our expenses, narrowed our strategy and launched an innovative new product pilot. While our efforts have largely been on narrowing our strategy and adjusting our cost structure to align with the current macroeconomic environment. We believe these efforts are largely complete and will provide us with a sustainable cost base as we push forward and work towards resuming growth in our business.

我們大幅減少了開支，縮小了策略範圍，並啟動了創新的新產品試點。雖然我們的努力主要集中在縮小我們的策略和調整我們的成本結構以適應當前的宏觀經濟環境。我們相信這些努力已基本完成，並將在我們推動業務恢復成長的過程中為我們提供可持續的成本基礎。

Operator, we're ready for questions.

接線員，我們準備好回答問題了。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Matt Carletti, Citizens JMP.

Matt Carletti，公民 JMP。

Thanks. Good afternoon.

謝謝。午安.

Hey Matt.

嘿馬特。

You talked a bit about the upfront title and the pilot programs. I know you can't be too specific on each one, but just at a 30,000 foot view, can you provide us any sort of color on how those might be structured from a commercial no aspect as we think about kind of longer term, how those might kind of the economics might endure to Doma?

您談到了前期標題和試點計劃。我知道你不能對每一個都說得太具體，但就從30,000 英尺的角度來看，你能為我們提供任何形式的顏色，說明如何從商業角度構建這些結構，而不是我們考慮的更長期的情況，如何那些經濟可能對多瑪來說是怎樣的？

Sure, happy too. So the best way to think about it, Matt, is that what we've really developed over the last six or seven years at this point, it is a considerable technology platform benefit whereby we can immediately decision using our algorithms, title risk on any qualifying title transaction.

當然，也很高興。因此，馬特，最好的思考方式是，我們在過去六七年裡真正開發的東西，這是一個相當大的技術平台優勢，我們可以立即使用我們的演算法做出決定，任何所有權風險合格的產權交易。

And when you think about the way that that works at it at a high level in terms of unit economics, we've already paid the R&D cost to develop that technology at very high margin transactional revenue to us each time it's used at this point because it's really just effectively run time costs for processing the algorithm on each transactions.

當你從單位經濟效益的角度考慮該技術在高水平上的運作方式時，我們已經支付了研發成本來開發該技術，每次使用該技術時我們都會獲得很高的利潤率交易收入，因為它實際上只是處理每筆交易的演算法的有效運行時間成本。

And what that enables us to do on the case of upfront title and what it might enable us to do in any applicable configuration. If we were to participate in a pilot program with the GSEs, which basically means that we can afford to either charge a significantly lower price for a title insurance policy and which to be clear.

以及這使我們能夠在預付標題的情況下做什麼，以及它可能使我們能夠在任何適用的配置中做什麼。如果我們要參與 GSE 的試點計劃，這基本上意味著我們有能力對產權保險保單收取明顯較低的價格，這一點需要明確。

That's what's already been rolled out in our upfront title partnership that we mentioned, our pilot that we launched, we filed rates in several states. They're publicly available. You'll find them. And you see that our rates for that product are significantly below the lowest rates that have historically been charged to them.

這就是我們提到的前期產權合作夥伴關係中已經推出的內容，我們啟動的試點，我們在幾個州提交了費率。它們是公開的。你會找到他們的。您會看到我們對該產品的費率明顯低於歷史上向他們收取的最低費率。

And then indication of broader efforts, what we'd really like to do is move more towards licensing our decisioning itself for which again, we've already made the fixed investment cost. And so that on a transactional basis, we can recognize more and more revenue is high-margin software revenue and do so while we're enabling the cost of this product to come way down to the end consumer, while still providing the same safe and secure benefits of guaranteeing the title risk for lenders and again, get back applicable to GSEs. Does that make sense, Matt?

然後表明更廣泛的努力，我們真正想做的是更多地轉向許可我們的決策本身，為此我們已經支付了固定投資成本。因此，在交易的基礎上，我們可以認識到越來越多的收入是高利潤率的軟體收入，同時我們使產品的成本大大降低到最終消費者身上，同時仍提供相同的安全和服務確保貸款人的所有權風險得到保障，並再次獲得適用於GSE 的收益。這有道理嗎，馬特？

Yeah, absolutely, but very helpful. And then I guess as you like on that software point, which makes a lot of sense going like SaaS model, do you view that as being ultimately kind of just a subscription basis kind of a license to just use the product or do you visit it being still a like a per transaction or per property sort of charge, obviously being negotiated with each customer?

是的，絕對是，但是非常有幫助。然後我想，正如您對軟體點的喜好一樣，這與 SaaS 模式一樣很有意義，您是否認為它最終只是一種訂閱基礎的許可證，僅使用該產品，或者您是否訪問它仍然是按每筆交易或按財產收取費用，顯然是與每個客戶協商的嗎？

I think we're we're open-minded at this point on because it's still early days. And frankly, we think that with the technology advantage we have and, you know, if not being the only provider, one of the only providers who can deliver this much of a cost savings benefit to American homeowners who desperately need relief.

我認為我們目前持開放態度，因為現在還為時過早。坦白說，我們認為，憑藉我們擁有的技術優勢，即使不是唯一的供應商，也是唯一能夠為迫切需要救濟的美國房主提供如此大的成本節約效益的提供者之一。

I think there's something to be said for, we want to make sure we have the right high-margin software approach that can accomplish the goals for our end customers and consumers, but still enable flexibility where it's needed for whether it's lender partners or mortgage technology system partners or even the GSEs to be able to see this, as you know, a more of a variable offering that they can offer to confer benefit when people actually close loans.

我認為有一些話要說，我們希望確保我們擁有正確的高利潤軟體方法，可以實現我們的最終客戶和消費者的目標，但仍然可以在需要時提供靈活性，無論是貸方合作夥伴還是抵押技術如您所知，系統合作夥伴甚至GSE 能夠看到這一點，這更像是一種可變的產品，當人們實際關閉貸款時，他們可以提供這種產品以帶來好處。

Because frankly, I think that's the way a lot of the kind of industry mentality of setup is people don't love paying for stuff in the mortgage world, if a loan doesn't close. And again, that's why I think we're uniquely positioned because our cost of goods sold effectively on the tech itself is very small. And so if variable pricing structures makes sense that better align our success with the end customer and the lender and the GSEs were open to those models.

因為坦白說，我認為這就是許多行業心態的設定方式，如果貸款沒有結束，人們不喜歡在抵押貸款領域支付費用。再說一次，這就是為什麼我認為我們處於獨特的地位，因為我們在技術本身上有效銷售的商品成本非常小。因此，如果可變定價結構有意義，可以更好地使我們的成功與最終客戶和貸款機構保持一致，那麼政府支持企業就會對這些模式持開放態度。

Okay, that makes sense. And then just one other one, if I could just kind of a higher-level question. Your view of kind of where we are in the industry like we've been living in kind of elevated mortgage interest rate world for a while now kind of what's your assessment of, kind of the level that we should be looking at on that, whether it's 30-year or however you look at it that you feel there's going to be some reasonably sized opportunity unlocked.

好吧，這是有道理的。然後還有一個問題，如果我可以提出一個更高層次的問題的話。您對我們在行業中所處位置的看法，就像我們已經生活在抵押貸款利率較高的世界中一段時間一樣，您對我們的評估是什麼，我們應該關注的水平，無論是30 年了，或者無論你如何看待它，你都會覺得將會有一些相當大的機會被釋放。

Whether it be kind of people that have locked into a mortgage with a seven handle on it and would look to refi or whether it be people that, you know, are sitting in, you know, 3.5% mortgages and can't swallow a [seven], but you might move that something in between?

無論是鎖定了 7 個抵押貸款並尋求再融資的人，還是持有 3.5% 抵押貸款且無法承擔 [七]，但你可能會在兩者之間移動一些東西？

Yeah, good question. Look, every time I tried to predict where the mortgage market is headed as a general industry prediction, I've been dead wrong on. So with that being the disclaimer, I would say that what I do know and what again, I was really encouraged that FHFA and the White House focused on this last week, people scratch their heads these days may ask well, who in their right mind, would be doing a refinance at a 7%-ish interest rate. And the reality is even in 7%-ish interest rate environment.

是的，好問題。看，每次我試圖將抵押貸款市場的走向作為一般行業預測時，我都大錯特錯了。因此，作為免責聲明，我想說的是，我確實知道什麼，再說一次，我真的很高興 FHFA 和白宮上週重點關注這一問題，這些天人們摸不著頭腦可能會問，誰心智正常，將以7% 左右的利率進行再融資。現實情況是，即使在 7% 左右的利率環境下也是如此。

There's plenty of people doing refi's. And the short answer is they're mostly people who are being forced to refi you unfortunately, you have a constant in life, which is death and divorce. Both of those events effectively forced to refinance transaction.

很多人都在做refi。簡而言之，他們大多是被迫重新給你的人，不幸的是，你的生活中有一個不變的事情，就是死亡和離婚。這兩個事件實際上都迫使交易再融資。

But you know that more importantly, what we've seen from our data, as we've mentioned, is overwhelmingly the people that are doing these rate and term refi's at these rates, conforming refi's are people at or below 120% of area median income, which is kind of a long winded way of saying that these people can't afford certain other things in their life and they're being forced to refi.

但你知道，更重要的是，正如我們所提到的，我們從數據中看到，絕大多數人都在以這些利率進行這些利率和術語refi，符合refi 的人是等於或低於地區中位數120% 的人收入，這是冗長的說法，說明這些人無法負擔生活中的某些其他東西，因此他們被迫重新融資。

And so for those people, every dollar helps in cost savings and to bring it full circle to your original question around like what does that mean for where we're at in terms of volumes. What we really love about our new strategy is it kind of doesn't matter, right.

因此，對於這些人來說，每一美元都有助於節省成本，並將其帶回您最初的問題上，例如這對我們目前的產量意味著什麼。我們真正喜歡我們的新策略的一點是它並不重要，對吧。

Do I think that things are going to get better from here? Yes, I don't think they're going to get worse from an industry perspective that it's overall volumes. But regardless of when they get better, we feel like our new strategy has us really, really well positioned to be capturing large amounts of share from the people that are participating in the market right now and who really need cost relief and who, you know, an extra couple of hundred dollars on to potentially hundreds, even thousands of dollars cost savings. Makes a big difference in the money in their pocket that they can use for other important life decisions.

我認為事情會從這裡變得更好嗎？是的，我認為從行業角度來看，整體銷售不會變得更糟。但無論他們什麼時候變得更好，我們覺得我們的新戰略確實讓我們處於非常有利的位置，能夠從現在參與市場的人們、真正需要成本減免的人和誰那裡獲得大量份額。 ，額外的幾百美元可以節省數百甚至數千美元的成本。他們口袋裡的錢可以用來做其他重要的人生決定，這會帶來很大的改變。

That makes a lot of sense. I appreciate the color and congrats on all the progress you guys have made this year.

這很有意義。我很欣賞這種顏色，並祝賀你們今年的所有進步。

Thanks, Matt.

謝謝，馬特。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Mike Ward with Citi.

花旗銀行的麥克沃德。

Hey, guys, thank you. Good afternoon. One thing I was curious about and I know you've spoken about this, but just wondering if there's any kind of time line or and in terms of the Biden administration's targeted sort of aid for homebuying and refinancing. Is there any kind of time line on that? Or is there any other sort of views you can share? I guess not totally sure what stage the proposals are into?

嘿，夥計們，謝謝你們。午安.我很好奇一件事，我知道你已經談到過這一點，但只是想知道是否有任何時間表，或者拜登政府對購房和再融資的有針對性的援助。有沒有什麼時間線？或者您還有什麼其他的看法可以分享嗎？我想不太確定這些提案已經進入哪個階段了？

Sure. Yes. I mean, Mike, I think we can really only comment on the announcement that was made last week, which is public. And I would say that announcement certainly implies that time line is more immediate than faraway, right. I think in the grander scheme of things that the President United States can put his full weight and force behind in an election year.

當然。是的。我的意思是，麥克，我認為我們只能對上週發布的公開聲明發表評論。我想說，這項宣布肯定意味著時間表比遙遠的更緊迫，對吧。我認為，從更宏偉的計劃來看，美國總統可以在選舉年全力以赴。

Without getting into too much political commentary on the state of the world. Legislative changes is a hard thing to do in an election year, even this one and but administrative change is something that the White House and certainly FHFA have full control over and they made it quite clear last week. But this is an administrative change, not a legislative one.

沒有對世界狀況進行太多政治評論。在選舉年，立法改革是一件很難的事情，即使是在今年，但行政改革是白宮和聯邦住房金融局 (FHFA) 完全控制的事情，他們上週已經明確表示了這一點。但這是一項行政變更，而不是立法變更。

Typically speaking when administrative changes get announced without much specificity they tend to show up relatively soon thereafter, and they show up in a significant way, not in a window dressing kind of way. So but that's all just based on kind of general principle about something going so far as to be announced and the actual state of the union address specifically and then having us kind of a specific administrative action behind it.

通常來說，當沒有太多具體內容地宣布行政變更時，它們往往會在此後相對較快地出現，並且以一種重要的方式出現，而不是以一種粉飾門面的方式出現。所以，但這一切都只是基於關於要宣布的事情的一般原則，以及具體的工會實際狀況，然後讓我們在其背後採取具體的行政行動。

Beyond that, you know, I think we're going to wait to see what what gets publicly announced by and the parties involved when they're ready to share more.

除此之外，我認為我們將等待，看看相關各方在準備好分享更多資訊時會公開宣布什麼內容。

Got it. Super helpful. And then maybe, on the pilot program with the software company, just curious how consumer interest has trended in that regard.

知道了。超有幫助。然後也許，在與軟體公司的試點計畫中，只是好奇消費者在這方面的興趣趨勢如何。

Yeah. I mean, look, what's interesting is and it's more so I mean, here's the thing. Most consumers will not do a home, call at a home transaction of any kind purchase or refinance enough times in their life two either need or want to get sophisticated about title insurance costs. But just kind of I've been a generally accepted fact.

是的。我的意思是，看，有趣的是，而且更重要的是，我的意思是，這就是事情。大多數消費者一生中不會進行足夠多次的購屋、上門進行任何類型的購屋交易或再融資，他們需要或想要了解產權保險費用。但我已經成為一個普遍接受的事實。

And so they generally are they're going to rely on the decision effectively by the referral channel, either the lender or a real estate agent or a refinance or a purchase respectively, to drive their decision. And so in that regard, if the lenders that are in one big case that's participating a one very large lender that's participating in the upfront title pilot, and certainly other lenders who we've talked to about utilizing the upfront title product.

因此，他們通常會有效地依賴推薦管道（貸款人或房地產經紀人或再融資或購買）的決定來推動他們的決定。因此，在這方面，如果一個大案件中的貸款人參與了一家參與預付產權試點的大型貸款人，當然還有我們與我們討論過使用預付產權產品的其他貸款人。

And they all have had a pretty unanimous reaction, especially given the backdrop we just talked about around housing affordability, which is they are quite excited to be able to select and pass on to their end consumer customers, something that will save them hundreds to potentially even thousands of dollars while not introducing any new meaningful title risk beyond kind of traditional alternatives.

他們都做出了相當一致的反應，特別是考慮到我們剛才談到的住房負擔能力的背景，他們很高興能夠選擇並傳遞給最終消費者客戶，這可能會為他們節省數百美元甚至數千美元，同時不會引入任何超出傳統替代方案的新的有意義的所有權風險。

It's kind of a no-brainer sell, right. Like they get something that's better, faster, cheaper, they pass that benefit onto the consumer and both the consumer and the lender wins. So I would just say that, like, you know, even though it's early days, it's really the it's the lenders.

這是理所當然的銷售，對吧。就像他們得到了更好、更快、更便宜的東西一樣，他們將這種利益傳遞給消費者，消費者和貸方都贏了。所以我只想說，你知道，儘管現在還處於早期階段，但實際上是貸款人。

And again, in the case of our pilot are our very large mortgage tech platform partner, who is quite excited because they themselves are in the business of signing up lender customers and being able to offer them more valuable features to help them keep their end customers stickier.

再說一遍，就我們的試點而言，我們非常大的抵押技術平台合作夥伴非常興奮，因為他們自己從事與貸款人客戶簽約的業務，並能夠為他們提供更有價值的功能，以幫助他們留住最終客戶更黏。

Got it. And then maybe one more and maybe this is sort of a silly question, are there opportunities internationally for you to sort of apply a similar business model to. I guess to the extent that title insurance exists similarly outside of the United States, I know in regions like Europe, I think there's less federal backstopping of residential mortgages. And I think that means that whole there's maybe there's more volume or more turnover. But maybe that's a silly question if it's not sort of a similarly structured market.

知道了。然後也許還有一個問題，也許這是一個愚蠢的問題，國際上是否有機會讓您應用類似的商業模式。我想在美國以外的地區也存在類似的產權保險，我知道在歐洲等地區，我認為聯邦對住宅抵押貸款的支持較少。我認為這意味著整體上可能會有更多的交易量或更多的營業額。但如果不是一個類似結構的市場，這也許是個愚蠢的問題。

No, no, it's not a silly question. And look, I think there might be interesting opportunities abroad, particularly the further we get into just licensing our technology for decisioning itself on where it could be utilized in lieu of a title insurance policy that said, honestly, the market opportunity is so big here in the US that we're going to focus on that for the foreseeable future.

不，不，這不是一個愚蠢的問題。看，我認為國外可能有有趣的機會，特別是當我們進一步授權我們的技術來決定它可以在哪裡使用來代替產權保險保單時，老實說，這裡的市場機會是如此之大在美國，我們將在可預見的未來關注這一點。

I mentioned in the call, you know, we just can't emphasize enough how based on our unique knowledge, having run our own technology with our own lender customers over the years, which we've now shared earlier in the call, we know that the majority of conforming refinances can I utilize our technology for an instant on right decision. And so when you kind of take that as your as your 50,000 foot view like our tech works for the majority of conforming refinances. We think there's plenty big of a universe here in United States to go after before we start considering and expansion Internationally.

我在電話中提到，你知道，我們無法充分強調如何基於我們獨特的知識，多年來與我們自己的貸方客戶一起運行我們自己的技術，我們現在在電話會議的早些時候分享了這一點，我們知道大多數符合要求的再融資都可以利用我們的技術立即做出正確的決定。因此，當您將其視為 50,000 英尺的視野時，我們的技術適用於大多數符合要求的再融資。我們認為，在我們開始考慮和國際擴張之前，美國還有很多廣闊的宇宙值得探索。

Got it. Great. Thank you, guys.

知道了。偉大的。感謝你們。

Bose George, KBW.

博斯·喬治，KBW。

Yeah, thanks, for letting me on that. You just wanted to clarify what kind of loans refinances would this apply to initially as trying to what is a low risk refinance? And then and your commentary was that eventually this was applied to most refinance. So just trying to figure out what's low risk now, how does that sort of the trajectory to covering most of the market eventually?

是的，謝謝你讓我這麼做。您只是想澄清這最初適用於什麼樣的貸款再融資，以及什麼是低風險再融資？然後你的評論是，最終這適用於大多數再融資。因此，只是想弄清楚現在什麼是低風險，這種軌跡最終會如何涵蓋大部分市場？

Yeah, sure. Thanks for the question, Bose. And let me let me just be careful to delineate between two things.

好，當然。謝謝你的提問，博斯。讓我小心地區分兩件事。

I really can't speculate as to what FHFA meant in their statement when they said low risk you have to ask them directly. What I do know is that we've seen using our technology with conforming refinance transactions and so these are I mean, think of this is the bread and butter refinance. It makes up most of the refinance market.

當 FHFA 說低風險，你必須直接詢問他們時，我真的無法推測 FHFA 在他們的聲明中是什麼意思。我所知道的是，我們已經看到使用我們的技術進行合規的再融資交易，所以我的意思是，認為這是麵包和黃油再融資。它構成了再融資市場的大部分。

And we've used that, in pretty much every geography across most lender types, big lenders, small lenders, centralized lenders, distributed retail lenders. And across the board, we can safely say that most conforming refinance transactions in the universe of overall mortgage transactions get an instant underwrite decision from our technology.

我們已經在幾乎所有地區的大多數貸款機構類型（大型貸款機構、小型貸款機構、集中貸款機構、分散式零售貸款機構）中使用了這一點。總的來說，我們可以有把握地說，整個抵押貸款交易中大多數符合要求的再融資交易都會從我們的技術中獲得即時承保決定。

So it is our perspective, ours Doma's that that most conforming refinance transactions. If you have the technology like we have, you can delineate as low risk and you can move them down a quick path as instant and safe and that equally as important, your technology is able to delineate the minority of transactions that are not low risk that may have some kind of issue that it needs to have a further kind of more detailed and more traditional manual title work put against it. So that's how I just make sure that we reconcile that kind of the two characterizations of unquote, lower.

因此，這是我們 Doma 的觀點，即最符合要求的再融資交易。如果您擁有像我們這樣的技術，您可以將其劃分為低風險，並且可以將它們轉移到即時且安全的快速路徑上，同樣重要的是，您的技術能夠劃分出少數風險不低的交易。可能存在某種問題，需要進一步進行更詳細、更傳統的手動標題工作。這就是我如何確保我們協調取消引用和降低這兩種特徵的方式。

Okay. Great. That's helpful. Thanks. And then actually, in terms of the relation or the potential pilot with Fannie Mae, would it be just the technology underwriting? Or would you be taking the title risk or do you provide the technology and then Fannie kind of retain some if there is residual risk, they retain it?

好的。偉大的。這很有幫助。謝謝。實際上，就與房利美的關係或潛在試點而言，這只是技術承保嗎？或者你會承擔所有權風險，或者你提供技術，然後房利美保留一些，如果有剩餘風險，他們保留它？

Again, I don't know that we can get into the specifics of potential commercial arrangements, that may or may not be in play. I what I would say is that we're confident in our technology works to deliver a safe and instant means truly instant like basically almost in the blink of an eye, a decision that can safely provide an assurance that the title for that property can be underwritten where that risk sits.

再說一遍，我不知道我們是否可以了解潛在商業安排的具體細節，這些安排可能會發揮作用，也可能不會發揮作用。我想說的是，我們對我們的技術充滿信心，能夠提供一種安全、即時的方式，真正即時，幾乎在眨眼之間，這一決定可以安全地保證該財產的所有權可以被授予。承保風險所在。

There's a whole other ball of wax, and I think there's a lot of different configurations that might make sense. And I assume that if and when Fannie Mae, provides more daylight onto how this program works. If in fact, they are the provider as has been reported. I'm sure when they publicly announced that and more will come to light.

還有另一個蠟球，我認為有很多不同的配置可能有意義。我認為，如果房利美 (Fannie Mae) 能夠提供更多關於該計劃如何運作的資訊。事實上，正如報導的那樣，他們就是提供者。我確信當他們公開宣布這一點時，更多的事情將會曝光。

Okay, great. Thanks a lot.

好的，太好了。多謝。

Thank you. And thank you for participating. This does conclude today's program, and you may now disconnect.

謝謝。感謝您的參與。今天的節目到此結束，您現在可以斷開連線了。