1stdibs.Com Inc (DIBS) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning and thank you for standing by. My name is Kelvin, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the 1stDibs fourth quarter 2024 earnings call. (Operator Instructions)

早安，感謝您的支持。我叫凱爾文，今天我將擔任您的會議主持人。現在，我歡迎大家參加 1stDibs 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）

Thank you. I would now like to turn the call over to Kevin LaBuz, Head of Investor Relations and Corporate Development. Please go ahead.

謝謝。現在我想將電話轉給投資者關係和企業發展主管 Kevin LaBuz。請繼續。

Good morning and welcome to 1stDibs earnings call for the quarter and year ended December 31, 2024.

早上好，歡迎參加 1stDibs 2024 年 12 月 31 日止季度和年度收益電話會議。

I'm Kevin LaBuz, Head of Investor Relations and Corporate Development.

我是投資者關係和企業發展主管 Kevin LaBuz。

Joining me today are Chief Executive Officer David Rosenblatt and Chief Financial Officer Thomas Etergino.

今天與我一起出席的還有執行長 David Rosenblatt 和財務長 Thomas Etergino。

David will provide an update on our business, including our strategy and growth opportunities, and Tom will review our fourth quarter financial results and first quarter outlook.

David 將介紹我們的業務最新情況，包括我們的策略和成長機會，Tom 將回顧我們第四季的財務表現和第一季的展望。

This call will be available via webcast on our investor relations website at investors.1stdibs.com.

本次電話會議將透過我們的投資者關係網站 investors.1stdibs.com 進行網路直播。

Before we begin, please keep in mind that our remarks include forward-looking statements.

在我們開始之前，請記住我們的評論包括前瞻性陳述。

Including but not limited to statements regarding guidance and future financial performance.

包括但不限於有關指導和未來財務表現的聲明。

Market demand, growth prospects. Business plans, strategic initiatives. Business and economic trends, including e-commerce growth rates. International opportunities and competitive position.

市場需求、成長前景。商業計劃、策略舉措。商業和經濟趨勢，包括電子商務成長率。國際機會和競爭地位。

Our actual results may differ materially from those expressed or implied in these forward-looking statements as a result of risk and uncertainties, including those described in our SEC filings.

由於風險和不確定性（包括我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中所述的風險和不確定性），我們的實際結果可能與這些前瞻性陳述中表達或暗示的結果有重大差異。

Any forward-looking statements that we make on this call are based on our beliefs and assumptions as of today, and we disclaim any obligation to update them except to the extent required by law.

我們在本次電話會議上所做的任何前瞻性陳述均基於我們今天的信念和假設，除法律要求的範圍外，我們不承擔更新這些陳述的任何義務。

Additionally, during the call, we will present GAAP and non-GAAP financial measures. A reconciliation of GAAP to non-GAAP measures is included in today's earnings press release, which you can find on our investor relations website along with the replay of this call.

此外，在電話會議中，我們將介紹 GAAP 和非 GAAP 財務指標。今天的收益新聞稿中包含了 GAAP 與非 GAAP 指標的對賬，您可以在我們的投資者關係網站上找到該新聞稿以及本次電話會議的重播。

Lastly, please note that all growth comparisons are on a year by year basis unless otherwise noted.

最後，請注意，除非另有說明，所有成長比較都是按年進行的。

I will now turn the call over to our CEO David Rosenblatt. David.

現在我將電話轉給我們的執行長大衛·羅森布拉特 (David Rosenblatt)。大衛。

Thanks, Kevin. Good morning and thank you for joining us today. I am pleased to share the progress we made in the fourth quarter. We exceeded our guidance, achieved our highest GMV growth since 2021, and gained market share.

謝謝，凱文。早安，感謝您今天加入我們。我很高興分享我們在第四季度取得的進展。我們超越了預期，實現了自 2021 年以來最高的 GMV 成長，並獲得了市場份額。

In 2022 and 2023, we reduced operating expenses, rationalized our product lineup, and maintained our focus on conversion. These actions paid off in 2024. While full year GMV was flat following a 15% decline in 2023. We exited the year with GMV growing 9% in the fourth quarter, the fastest pace in three years.

2022 年和 2023 年，我們降低了營運費用，合理化了產品陣容，並繼續專注於轉換。這些行動在2024年獲得了回報。而全年 GMV 在 2023 年下降 15% 之後持平。今年第四季度，我們的 GMV 成長了 9%，這是三年來的最快速度。

For the year as a whole, conversion, active buyers, orders, revenue, and gross profit all inflected back to growth.

就全年而言，轉換率、活躍買家、訂單、收入和毛利都恢復成長。

Tighter focus and accelerated product velocity are fueling these gains. Throughout 2024, we doubled down on what was working while reallocating resources from lower return projects to higher return projects, driving higher conversion rates.

更緊密的關注和更快的產品速度正在推動這些成長。在整個 2024 年，我們加倍努力，將資源從回報較低的項目重新分配到回報較高的項目，從而提高轉換率。

Revenue growth occurred against a backdrop of continued weakness in our market. According to the National Association of Realtors, US home sales, a key driver of furniture demand, neared a 30-year low in 2024. In addition, syndicated credit card data showed that the broader online furniture in premium home furnishings markets contracted.

收入成長是在市場持續疲軟的背景下實現的。據全美房地產經紀人協會稱，作為家具需求主要驅動力的美國房屋銷售量到 2024 年將接近 30 年來的最低水平。此外，聯合信用卡數據顯示，高端家居市場的更廣泛的線上家具銷售出現萎縮。

This downturn is cyclical, not structural. We expect that the market for luxury real estate and luxury home goods will eventually rebound, and we continue to see a large and compelling opportunity in that market.

這次衰退是週期性的，而不是結構性的。我們預計豪華房地產和豪華家居用品市場最終將會反彈，並且我們繼續看到該市場存在巨大而引人注目的機會。

As such, we are investing selectively in the long-term drivers of our success. Doing so will enhance the value that we bring to buyers and sellers and strengthen our competitive position.

因此，我們有選擇地投資於我們成功的長期驅動力。這樣做將提高我們為買家和賣家帶來的價值並增強我們的競爭地位。

Returning to revenue growth is an important step toward realizing our long-term vision. We aspire to build a business serving hundreds of thousands of active buyers, generating billions in GMV and hundreds of millions in revenue, while delivering strong profitability and free cash flow. We recognize that there is a long way to go, and the path there likely won't be linear, but we are pleased to be on a positive trajectory after a difficult few years.

恢復收入成長是我們實現長期願景的重要一步。我們渴望建立一家服務數十萬活躍買家的企業，創造數十億美元的商品交易總額和數億美元的收入，同時實現強勁的獲利能力和自由現金流。我們認識到，前面的路還很長，而且前進的道路可能不會一帆風順，但我們很高興在經歷了幾年的艱難之後，已經走上了積極的軌道。

We also made progress on our path to possibility in 2024 by remaining vigilant on expenses and maintaining strict efficiency thresholds on performance marketing.

我們也透過對費用保持警惕並對績效行銷保持嚴格的效率門檻，在 2024 年實現可能性的道路上取得了進展。

On an annual basis, operating expenses declined for the 2nd consecutive year, and we delivered our best adjusted EBITDA margins as a public company.

從年度來看，營運費用連續第二年下降，並且我們實現了作為上市公司的最佳調整後 EBITDA 利潤率。

Relative to 2023, revenue increased by $3.6 million and adjusted EBITDA increased by $5.3 million due to expense reductions and high incremental flow through, demonstrating our operating leverage potential.

相對於 2023 年，由於費用減少和高增量流量，收入增加了 360 萬美元，調整後的 EBITDA 增加了 530 萬美元，證明了我們的經營槓桿潛力。

After resetting expenses in 2022 and 2023, our path to profitability now depends on sustaining revenue growth and maintaining operating leverage. Our asset-like model allows us to scale GMV and revenue without proportionate increases in our workforce.

在 2022 年和 2023 年重新設定費用後，我們的獲利之路現在取決於維持收入成長和維持營運槓桿。我們的類似資產的模型使我們能夠擴大 GMV 和收入，而無需相應增加員工數量。

Approximately 60% of our operating expenses are headcount related. And our plan for 2025 is to hold headcount flat and unlock operating leverage at mid-single digit revenue growth.

我們的營運費用約有 60% 與員工人數有關。我們 2025 年的計畫是保持員工人數不變，並在收入成長達到中位數個位數時釋放營運槓桿。

Moving to quarterly results, we finished the year on a high note with GMV up 9%. Quarterly GMV revenue and adjusted EBITDA margins all exceeded the high end of guidance.

從季度業績來看，我們以高調結束了這一年度，GMV 上漲了 9%。季度 GMV 營收和調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率均超出預期上限。

From a funnel perspective, conversion rates grew for the fifth consecutive quarter.

從通路角度來看，轉換率連續第五個季度成長。

Traffic declines moderated and average order value inflected from a headwind to a tailwind.

客流量下降趨勢有所緩和，平均訂單價值由逆風轉為順風。

Increasing conversion remains our operational priority and highest leverage activity.

提高轉換率仍然是我們的營運重點和最高槓桿活動。

We continue to see great momentum here with improving conversion rates for both new and returning buyers.

我們繼續看到強勁的發展勢頭，新買家和回頭客的轉換率都在提高。

These gains are being driven by our heightened pace of product velocity.

這些收益是由我們產品速度的提升所推動的。

The number of [AB] tests we ran during the quarter grew double digits sequentially and triple digits year over year, hitting a new record.

我們在本季度進行的 [AB] 測試數量環比增長了兩位數，同比增長了三位數，創下了新紀錄。

Consistent with previous quarters, increasing conversion was the primary focus of our product development efforts, and we had several notable wins during the quarter.

與前幾季一致，提高轉換率是我們產品開發工作的重點，我們在本季度取得了幾項顯著的勝利。

First, we launched a machine learning based pricing model for jewelry, providing stronger, more precise recommendations tailored to maximize conversion.

首先，我們推出了基於機器學習的珠寶定價模型，提供更強大、更精準的建議，以最大限度地提高轉換率。

This is the second category for which we have rolled out ML pricing recommendations following on from furniture in the third quarter.

這是繼第三季的家具之後，我們推出 ML 定價建議的第二個類別。

We expect that continued progress on determining market pricing for our products, gaining seller adoption of these prices, and communicating them to buyers effectively will be prerequisites for continued conversion gains. We also believe that our relative market share gives us a unique ability to implement these three pricing related priorities.

我們期望，繼續確定我們產品的市場定價，讓賣家接受這些價格，並有效地將這些價格傳達給買家，這將是持續實現轉換收益的先決條件。我們也相信，我們的相對市場份額使我們具有獨特的能力來實現這三個與定價相關的優先事項。

Second, we re-architected the back end of checkout to significantly increase speed. Every second matters. There's a strong relationship between decreasing checkout speed and improving conversion rates.

其次，我們重新設計了結帳後端，以顯著提高速度。每一秒都很重要。降低結帳速度和提高轉換率之間存在著密切的關係。

Today our checkout experience is meaningfully faster, resulting in higher checkout completion and conversion.

如今，我們的結帳體驗顯著加快，結帳完成率和轉換率更高。

Third, we increased the prominence of our seller recommendations. This helped increase the engagement and adoption of our seller recommendations, which are aimed at increasing sell through and conversion.

第三，我們提高了賣家推薦的突出地位。這有助於提高我們賣家建議的參與度和採用率，旨在提高銷售量和轉換率。

The increased volume of features and enhancements is a function of an accelerated pace of testing, the result of a product development culture that has become more entrepreneurial over the past 18 months. This was a significant contributor to conversion growing double digits in 2024.

功能和增強功能的增加是測試速度加快的結果，也是過去 18 個月產品開發文化變得更加具有創業精神的結果。這對 2024 年轉換率實現兩位數成長起到了重要作用。

Turning the supply, we ended the quarter with approximately 5,900 unique sellers, down 24%.

從供應情況來看，本季末我們擁有約 5,900 名獨立賣家，下降了 24%。

As we mentioned last quarter, churn was elevated due to the retirement of our essential seller program in late November.

正如我們上個季度提到的那樣，由於我們的重要賣家計劃在 11 月下旬退出，客戶流失率有所上升。

Of the approximately 2,200 unique sellers affected by this change, over 1,200 upgraded to a monthly subscription plan.

在受此變化影響的約 2,200 名獨立賣家中，超過 1,200 名升級為月度訂閱方案。

In total, the churn cohort accounted for less than 30 basis points of GMV over the trailing 12 months and under 40 basis points of listings.

整體而言，流失群體在過去 12 個月內佔 GMV 的比重不到 30 個基點，佔上架量的比重不到 40 個基點。

Although unique seller count has been volatile due to subscription pricing optimizations, we continue to see steady listings growth and end of the quarter with over 1.8 million listings, up 5%.

儘管由於訂閱價格優化，獨立賣家數量一直不穩定，但我們仍然看到上市數量穩定成長，本季末上市數量超過 180 萬，成長 5%。

Looking ahead, we expect churn to normalize in the first half of 2025 and continued lifting growth.

展望未來，我們預期客戶流失率將在 2025 年上半年恢復正常，並持續促進成長。

Turning to 2025, while we believe that the worst of the down cycle for luxury home furnishings is now behind us, the pace and timing of recovery remain uncertain.

展望 2025 年，雖然我們相信豪華家居裝飾行業最糟糕的下行週期已經過去，但復甦的速度和時機仍不確定。

In light of this, we are looking to create our own luck through self-help initiatives to increase GMV in revenue, improve margins, and win market share.

有鑑於此，我們希望透過自助措施創造自己的運氣，以增加收入 GMV、提高利潤率並贏得市場份額。

Our roadmap focuses on creating value for both sides of the marketplace to cement our leading position in online luxury design.

我們的路線圖專注於為市場雙方創造價值，以鞏固我們在網路奢侈品設計領域的領先地位。

For buyers, this means reducing friction and building trust. For sellers, this means delivering tools and insights to drive more sales. In a historically opaque market, we can add a lot of value by providing transparency.

對買家來說，這意味著減少摩擦和建立信任。對於賣家來說，這意味著提供工具和見解來推動更多銷售。在歷史上不透明的市場中，我們可以透過提供透明度來增加許多價值。

Building on foundational work completed in 2024, our roadmap is anchored by four themes.

在 2024 年完成的基礎工作的基礎上，我們的路線圖以四個主題為基礎。

The first is accelerating organic traffic growth. Given that approximately 70% of our traffic is organic, improvements here should drive efficient buyer acquisition. Projects include improving site performance, refining our site structure, and improving the size and effectiveness of our email marketing program.

首先是加速有機流量成長。鑑於我們約 70% 的流量是自然流量，這方面的改善應該能夠推動有效的買家獲取。項目包括提高網站效能、改進網站結構以及提高電子郵件行銷計劃的規模和有效性。

The second is competitive pricing.

第二是有競爭力的定價。

Our prices are often perceived as being too high, impacting buyer trust and conversion.

我們的價格常常被認為過高，影響了買家的信任和轉換率。

The objective here is ensuring that listings and shipping costs are transparently and accurately priced. Work streams include expanding the use of machine learning driven pricing models across all categories, expanding the number of product display page views with a shipping quote, and improving the accuracy of shipping quotes.

這裡的目標是確保清單和運輸成本的定價透明且準確。工作流程包括擴大所有類別中機器學習驅動的定價模型的使用，擴大帶有運費報價的產品展示頁面瀏覽量，以及提高運費報價的準確性。

We know from our internal data that items with shipping quotes have higher conversion rates compared to those that don't, so increasing the prevalence of shipping quotes and the accuracy of those quotes should boost conversion.

我們從內部數據中得知，帶有運費報價的商品比沒有運費報價的商品具有更高的轉換率，因此提高運費報價的普及率和報價的準確性應該會提高轉換率。

The third is continuing to optimize our conversion funnel.

第三是繼續優化我們的轉換管道。

We want to make it easier for shoppers to find and buy the perfect item.

我們希望讓購物者更容易找到並購買完美的商品。

Projects include improving personalization and discovery, enhancing buyer incentives, optimizing the design and performance of our various surfaces, especially mobile web, and empowering sellers to better manage and optimize their listings.

項目包括改善個人化和發現、增強買家激勵、優化我們各個介面（尤其是行動網路）的設計和效能，以及使賣家能夠更好地管理和優化他們的清單。

Last, we are focused on elevating the level of service we provide with initiatives like faster case resolution, expanded live chat support, and proactive communication on common issues.

最後，我們致力於透過加快案例解決速度、擴大即時聊天支援以及就常見問題進行主動溝通等措施來提升我們提供的服務水準。

These efforts are designed to drive conversion through greater customer satisfaction and higher repeat rates.

這些努力旨在透過提高客戶滿意度和更高的重複率來推動轉換。

Executing on our 2025 roadmap will build on the progress we made in 2024, solidifying our leading position in online luxury design.

執行我們的 2025 年路線圖將以我們在 2024 年取得的進展為基礎，鞏固我們在線上奢侈品設計領域的領先地位。

We aim to accelerate growth, improve margins, and capture market share, all while strengthening our foundation for scalable long-term success.

我們的目標是加速成長、提高利潤率、佔領市場份額，同時鞏固我們可擴展的長期成功的基礎。

Turning the capital allocation, given the continued disconnect between our rising confidence in the business and our assessment of intrinsic value compared to our market price, we remained active with share repurchases.

轉變資本配置，鑑於我們對業務的信心不斷增強與我們對內在價值相對於市場價格的評估之間持續存在的脫節，我們仍然積極進行股票回購。

In 2024, we repurchased approximately 5.6 million shares for $28.1 million including approximately 1.3 million shares in the fourth quarter.

2024 年，我們以 2,810 萬美元回購了約 560 萬股，其中包括第四季的約 130 萬股。

We believe that this will be very accretive in the long run, given the size of our opportunity, our operational progress, and the fact that we are well positioned to capitalize on a market recovery.

我們相信，考慮到我們的機會規模、我們的營運進展以及我們有能力利用市場復甦的事實，從長遠來看，這將帶來很大的價值。

We exited 2024 from a position of strength. After navigating a challenging few years, our renewed momentum, market share gains, and marginal improvements validate our strategy. These milestones reflect our market leadership and the strategic actions we've taken. In 2025, we intend to build on this momentum by sustaining growth, expanding market share, and driving towards profitability.

2024 年我們處於強勢地位。經過幾年的挑戰，我們重新獲得的發展勢頭、市場份額的成長以及邊際改善驗證了我們的策略。這些里程碑反映了我們的市場領導地位和我們採取的策略行動。2025年，我們計劃繼續保持成長勢頭，擴大市場份額，並努力實現獲利。

Thank you for your continued support. I will now turn it over to Tom to review our fourth quarter financial results and first quarter outlook.

感謝您一直以來的支持。現在我將把時間交給湯姆來回顧我們第四季的財務表現和第一季的展望。

Thanks, David.

謝謝，大衛。

GMV revenue and adjusted even of margins exceeded the high end of our guidance range driven by improving conversion funnel dynamics, a rebound in average order value, and continued vigilance on expenses.

由於轉換管道動態改善、平均訂單價值反彈以及對費用的持續警惕，GMV 收入和調整後的利潤率均超過了我們指導範圍的高端。

GMV was $94.5 million up 9%, the fastest pace we've seen in three years.

GMV 達到 9,450 萬美元，成長 9%，這是我們三年來見過的最快速度。

This performance is in stark contrast to our end markets which continue to contract, signifying market share gains.

這一表現與我們持續萎縮的終端市場形成了鮮明對比，這意味著市場份額的成長。

On a sequential basis, GMV growth rates accelerated approximately 14% points. This was driven by moderating traffic declines, continued conversion improvements, and higher than anticipated average order values.

與上一季相比，GMV 成長率加快了約 14%。這是由於流量下降速度減緩、轉換率持續提高以及平均訂單價值高於預期。

Average order value of approximately $2600 was up 2%, and median order value of approximately $1200 was up 4%. This compares to declines in the third quarter.

平均訂單價值約為 2600 美元，上漲了 2%，中位數訂單價值約為 1200 美元，上漲了 4%。相比之下，第三季則有所下降。

This rebound was driven by a slight makeshift away from orders under $1000. In total, these orders accounted for approximately 46% of total in the fourth quarter, down from just over 47% a year ago.

這次反彈是由 1000 美元以下訂單的輕微臨時撤離所推動的。總體而言，這些訂單約佔第四季訂單總額的 46%，低於一年前的 47% 以上。

There's no other digital marketplace at our scale which has the buyer and seller trust to transact at our average order value across multiple verticals. We're able to deliver qualified buyers at price points ranging from under $100 to over $1 million.

在我們這個規模上，沒有其他數位市場能夠獲得買家和賣家的信任，以我們的平均訂單價值在多個垂直領域進行交易。我們能夠以從 100 美元以下到 100 萬美元以上的價位向合格買家提供產品。

Return to funnel trends, traffic declines moderated with improvements to organic traffic being partially offset by slower paid traffic growth. We ended the quarter with approximately 70% of traffic from organic sources and 30% from paid.

回到漏斗趨勢，流量下降有所緩和，自然流量的改善被付費流量成長放緩部分抵銷。本季結束時，我們約有 70% 的流量來自自然來源，30% 來自付費來源。

Conversion gains moderated versus the third quarter but remained healthy. Conversion rates have now increased year over year for five straight quarters.

與第三季相比，轉換收益有所放緩，但仍保持健康。目前，轉換率已連續五個季度年增。

We are confident in our roadmap and see ample headroom to increase conversion over time.

我們對我們的路線圖充滿信心，並且看到了充足的空間來隨著時間的推移提高轉換率。

Returning to GMV, consumer GMV and [trade-in] GMV both grew.

回到 GMV，消費者 GMV 和 [以舊換新] GMV 均有所成長。

GMV increased for all verticals except for new and custom furniture, which was down 1%.

除新家具和定製家具外，所有垂直行業的 GMV 均有所增長，而新家具和定製家具的 GMV 下降了 1%。

Encouragingly, vintage and antique furniture, our largest vertical, grew double digits.

令人鼓舞的是，我們最大的垂直市場——古董家具實現了兩位數的成長。

We ended the quarter with approximately 64,300 active buyers, up 6% year over year and 3% sequentially.

本季結束時，我們擁有約 64,300 名活躍買家，較去年同期成長 6%，較上季成長 3%。

This is the first quarter of year over year active buyer growth since the second quarter of 2022 and the third consecutive quarter of sequential growth on an absolute basis.

這是自 2022 年第二季以來活躍買家數量首次同比增長，也是連續第三個季度實現絕對值環比增長。

On the supply side of the marketplace, we experienced steady listings growth, ending the quarter with over 1.8 million listings, up 5%.

在市場供應方面，我們經歷了房源數量的穩定成長，本季末房源數量超過 180 萬，成長 5%。

We ended the quarter with approximately 5,900 unique sellers, down 24%.

本季結束時，我們擁有約 5,900 名獨立賣家，下降了 24%。

As anticipated, seller churn was elevated due to retiring our essential seller program in November.

正如預期的那樣，由於我們在 11 月停止了基本賣家計劃，賣家流失率有所上升。

Of the approximately 2,200 unique sellers affected by this change, over 1,200 upgraded to a monthly subscription plan.

在受此變化影響的約 2,200 名獨立賣家中，超過 1,200 名升級為月度訂閱方案。

Seller churn had a de minimis impact on GMV and listings. We expect churn to normalize in the first half of 2025.

賣家流失對 GMV 和商品上市的影響微乎其微。我們預計客戶流失率將在 2025 年上半年恢復正常。

Turning to the P&L, net revenue was $22.8 million up 9%, marking the third consecutive quarter of year over year expansion and our fastest growth rate in three years.

談到損益表，淨收入為 2,280 萬美元，成長 9%，這是連續第三個季度實現同比增長，也是我們三年來最快的增長率。

Transaction revenue, which is tied directly to GMV, was approximately 75% of total revenue, with subscriptions making up most of the remainder.

交易收入與 GMV 直接相關，約佔總收入的 75%，其餘大部分收入來自訂閱收入。

Take rates were stable year over year.

收費率同比保持穩定。

Gross profit was $16.5 million up 10%.

毛利為1650萬美元，成長10%。

Of course pocket margins were 72%, up approximately 1% point.

當然，淨利率為 72%，上漲了約 1 個百分點。

Sales and marketing expenses were $10.5 million up 22%, drive driven by severance expenses, seasonal increases in performance marketing, and head count related expenses due to our annual merit increases awarded in March.

銷售和行銷費用為 1,050 萬美元，成長 22%，主要原因是遣散費、績效行銷的季節性成長以及 3 月份年度績效加薪導致的員工人數相關費用。

Sales and marketing as a percentage of revenue was 46%, up from 41% a year ago.

銷售和行銷佔收入的比例為 46%，高於一年前的 41%。

Technology development expenses were $5.5 million up 23%, driven by higher headcount related costs due to our annual merit increases awarded in March and some selective hiring, including our machine learning team.

技術開發費用為 550 萬美元，成長 23%，這主要是由於我們 3 月份授予的年度績效加薪以及包括機器學習團隊在內的一些選擇性招聘導致員工相關成本增加。

As a percentage of revenue, technology development was 24%, up from 21%.

技術開發佔收入的百分比為 24%，高於 21%。

General administrative expenses were $6.6 million up 6%, with higher headcount related expenses due to our annual merit increases awarded in March and higher professional service fees.

一般行政費用為 660 萬美元，成長 6%，由於我們 3 月份的年度績效加薪和專業服務費用的增加，員工相關費用有所增加。

As a percentage of revenue, general administrative expenses were 29%, down from 30% a year ago.

一般管理費用佔收入的百分比為 29%，低於一年前的 30%。

Lastly, provision for transaction losses were approximately $840,000, 4% of revenue flat year over year.

最後，交易損失準備金約為 84 萬美元，佔營收的 4%，與去年同期持平。

Total operating expenses were $23.4 million up 16% year over year, exceeding one time severance charges, operating expenses increased by 12% year over year and 1% sequentially due to seasonal increases in performance marketing spend.

總營運費用為 2,340 萬美元，年增 16%，超過一次性遣散費，由於績效行銷支出的季節性增加，營運費用年增 12%，環比增長 1%。

On this basis, operating expenses have been approximately flat for the past three quarters.

在此基礎上，過去三個季度的營運費用基本上持平。

Adjusted to EBITDA a loss was $1.6 million compared to a loss of $1.7 million last year.

經 EBITDA 調整後，虧損為 160 萬美元，而去年的虧損為 170 萬美元。

Adjusted EBITDA margin was a loss of 7%, a 1% point improvement year over year.

調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率虧損 7%，較去年同期改善 1 個百分點。

Looking forward, we remain focused on lowering the revenue threshold required to achieve operating leverage. In 2025, our expense base is set up to deliver operating leverage at mid-single digit revenue growth. Additionally, we plan to keep headcount flat year over year.

展望未來，我們仍將致力於降低實現經營槓桿所需的收入門檻。到 2025 年，我們的費用基礎將實現中等個位數收入成長時的營運槓桿。此外，我們計劃保持員工人數逐年持平。

Moving onto the balance sheet, we ended the quarter with a strong cash equivalent, and short-term investments position of $104 million. During the quarter, we repurchased approximately $5.3 million worth of shares. Since launching our first share repurchase program in August of 2023, we have repurchased approximately 6.4 million shares for a total of $31.6 million.

從資產負債表來看，本季末我們擁有強勁的現金等價物和 1.04 億美元的短期投資部位。本季度，我們回購了價值約 530 萬美元的股票。自 2023 年 8 月啟動首個股票回購計畫以來，我們已回購約 640 萬股，總額達 3,160 萬美元。

At the end of December we had approximately $3.8 million of outstanding authorization remaining.

截至 12 月底，我們剩餘的未償授權金額約為 380 萬美元。

Turning to the outlook, our guidance reflects quarter to date results and our forecast for the remainder of the period.

談到展望，我們的指引反映了本季迄今的業績以及我們對本季剩餘時間的預測。

We forecast first quarter GMV of $90 million to $96 million down 2% to up 5%.

我們預測第一季 GMV 為 9,000 萬美元至 9,600 萬美元，下降 2% 至成長 5%。

Net revenue of $21.7 million to $22.8 million down 2% to up 3%, and adjusted EBITDA margin loss of 12% to 8%.

淨收入為 2,170 萬美元至 2,280 萬美元，下降 2% 至成長 3%，調整後 EBITDA 利潤率損失 12% 至 8%。

Our GMV guidance reflects continued conversion gains, traffic declines, and average order value growth. From a macro perspective, our outlook assumes a continuation of the soft demand environment we saw throughout 2023 and 2024 due to prolonged softness in the luxury housing and high-end discretionary markets. Additionally, we are lapping a leap year which translates into a roughly 100 basis point drag on year over year growth rates.

我們的 GMV 指導反映了持續的轉換率成長、流量下降和平均訂單價值成長。從宏觀角度來看，由於豪宅和高端非必需品市場長期疲軟，我們認為 2023 年和 2024 年疲軟的需求環境將持續下去。此外，我們正處於閏年，這意味著同比增長率將下降約 100 個基點。

Adjusted EBITDA margin guidance reflects gross margins in the 71% to 73% range, increased headcount related costs due to one month of annual merit increases in March and higher health insurance premiums, increased professional service fees, particularly on audit and socks related items, and a provision for transaction losses of approximately 4% of revenue in line with historic levels.

調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率指引反映了 71% 至 73% 範圍內的毛利率、由於 3 月份一個月的年度績效加薪和更高的健康保險費而導致的員工相關成本增加、專業服務費增加（特別是審計和襪子相關項目），以及約佔收入 4% 的交易損失準備金，與歷史水平一致。

By not providing annual guidance, it is worth noting that we expect GMV to grow year over year in 2025, assuming no major changes in the macro environment. Our annual marriage cycle goes into effect on March 1, so the full impact of higher salaries will be felt in the second quarter.

由於沒有提供年度指導，值得注意的是，假設宏觀環境沒有重大變化，我們預計 2025 年 GMV 將同比增長。我們的年度婚姻週期於 3 月 1 日開始，因此薪資上漲的全面影響將在第二季顯現。

On an annualized basis, our 2025 plan targets generating operating leverage at mid-single digit revenue growth and keeps headcount flat.

以年率計算，我們的 2025 年計畫旨在實現中等個位數收入成長的經營槓桿，並保持員工人數不變。

In conclusion, we're proud of the progress we've made this year highlighted by a strong return to growth in the fourth quarter and clear market share gains. Importantly, we've reduced operating expenses for the second straight year, demonstrating our commitment to financial discipline. Moving forward, we're focused on maintaining this balance, driving growth, capturing market share, and generating operating leverage as the business scales. We appreciate your continued support and look forward to updating on our progress in the coming quarters.

總而言之，我們對今年的進步感到自豪，尤其是第四季度強勁恢復成長和明顯的市佔率成長。重要的是，我們連續第二年削減營運費用，顯示了我們對財務紀律的承諾。展望未來，我們將專注於維持這種平衡，推動成長，佔領市場份額，並在業務規模擴大時產生經營槓桿。我們感謝您的持續支持，並期待在未來幾季更新我們的進展。

Thank you. I will now turn the call over to the operator to take your questions.

謝謝。我現在將電話轉給接線員來回答您的問題。

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question-and-answer session. (Operator Instructions)

謝謝女士們、先生們，我們現在開始問答環節。（操作員指示）

Nick Jones, Citizens.

尼克瓊斯，公民。

Hi, good morning, thanks for taking the questions. I guess first, as you think about kind of marketing strategy as you look to.

大家好，早安，感謝您回答問題。我想首先，當您考慮要採取什麼樣的行銷策略時。

Kind of navigate, I guess, kind of depress home transactions, particularly on the luxury side. What are kind of some key channels or investments you're making there, throughout this kind of earning cycle we keep hearing folks increasingly look to build integrations, with Meta products and kind of folk on mid funnel, as a way to kind of show selection to shoppers kind of where they are. Can you kind of talk about how you're thinking about your marketing strategy this year? Thanks.

我想，這在某種程度上會抑制房屋交易，尤其是豪宅交易。在整個獲利週期中，您在那裡進行的一些關鍵管道或投資是什麼？我們不斷聽到人們越來越多地尋求與 Meta 產品和中間渠道的人員建立集成，以便向購物者展示他們所處位置的選擇。您能談談您對今年的行銷策略有何看法嗎？謝謝。

Yeah, I mean, hey Nick, good morning.

是的，嘿尼克，早安。

When we think of marketing strategy, we think of it more in terms of customer acquisition.

當我們考慮行銷策略時，我們會更多地從客戶獲取的角度來考慮。

Of course we have efforts focused at retention and cross-selling and upselling and so on, but I mean, the most important part of marketing for us is customer acquisition. I think we were happy that in Q4 that we were able to achieve higher volumes without relaxing our return criteria and threshold, we've seen a lot of success on Facebook actually and beyond that, we've continued to make incremental improvements in our historically primary channels, the biggest of which is Google.

當然，我們的努力集中在保留客戶、交叉銷售和追加銷售等方面，但我的意思是，對我們來說，行銷最重要的部分是客戶獲取。我認為我們很高興在第四季度能夠在不放寬回報標準和門檻的情況下實現更高的交易量，實際上我們在 Facebook 上已經取得了很大的成功，除此之外，我們還繼續在歷史上的主要渠道上進行漸進式改進，其中最大的是谷歌。

Great. And then maybe a second question, agentic AI is a big focus, it seems like your platform giving kind of uniqueness of the listings and the breadth of listings, they might be well equipped to kind of benefit from agentic AI. Can you talk about any efforts you guys have with agentic AI or just, touch on or dive deeper into AI more broadly? Thanks.

偉大的。然後也許是第二個問題，代理人工智慧是一個重點，似乎您的平台提供了清單的獨特性和清單的廣度，他們可能能夠從代理人工智慧中受益。能談談你們在代理人工智慧方面所做的努力嗎？或者只是更廣泛地接觸或深入研究人工智慧嗎？謝謝。

Yeah, so it's an important focus for us, and we think that AI and ML in particular will have a meaningful impact on both the revenue and the cost side over time.

是的，所以這對我們來說是一個重要的關注點，我們認為人工智慧和機器學習將隨著時間的推移對收入和成本產生重大影響。

So we built a team at the end of Q3, so we've been added for a little bit over sorry Q4 of 2023. So, we've been added for a little bit more than a year. The initial and I think kind of highest return product projects have been related to pricing.

因此，我們在第三季末組建了一支團隊，所以很遺憾，我們的人數將在 2023 年第四季增加。所以，我們加入已經一年多了。最初的、我認為回報最高的產品項目與定價有關。

So in Q3, for example, we rolled out an ML model to recommend optimal pricing to our furniture sellers. In Q4 we rolled that out to our jewelry category, and we'll complete the rest of it in 2025. We are also pointing ML at shipping pricing for us that's a big source of leverage. I think bigger than most e-commerce companies.

例如，在第三季度，我們推出了一個 ML 模型，為我們的家具賣家推薦最佳定價。我們在第四季度將其推廣到珠寶類別，並將在 2025 年完成其餘部分。我們也向 ML 指出了運輸定價，這對我們來說是一個很大的槓桿來源。我認為比大多數電子商務公司都要大。

And that's, both ensuring that we have as high coverage of pre-quotes as possible and also that that pricing is as competitive as possible. And then beyond that, there are a lot of the applications are similar to those in other companies and those are all on our roadmap things like personalization. Customer service agents and so on, but I think, where we are most focused right now and where we expect to see the biggest return is from pointing ML at pricing.

這既可以確保我們擁有盡可能高的預先報價覆蓋率，又可以確保定價盡可能具有競爭力。除此之外，還有很多應用程式與其他公司的應用程式類似，這些都在我們的路線圖上，例如個人化。客戶服務代理等等，但我認為，我們現在最關注的以及我們期望看到最大回報的領域是將機器學習應用於定價。

Great, thanks for taking the questions.

太好了，感謝您回答這些問題。

Austin Riddick, Evercore.

奧斯汀·里迪克，Evercore。

Hi guys, good morning. Quick one from me. Outside of the macro, what are the main levers to bring adjusted EBITDA closer to positive territory, and how are you balancing those measures with investments and growth?

大家好，早安。我很快就搞定了。除了宏觀因素之外，有哪些主要槓桿可以使調整後的 EBITDA 更接近正值，以及如何平衡這些措施與投資和成長？

Yeah, hi, this is Tom. I'll take that.

是的，你好，我是湯姆。我會接受的。

I mean, our key to getting to break even and adjusted EBITDA positive is really going to be centered around revenue growth. We are very disciplined on expenses. We continue to remain disciplined on expenses, and we will stay that way. But our break even, our EBITDA positive will come from additional revenue, sustained revenue and GMV growth. What we are, aiming to do in 2025 around our expense base is to deliver operating margin leverage at mid-single digit revenue growth.

我的意思是，我們實現收支平衡和調整後 EBITDA 為正的關鍵實際上在於營收成長。我們在開支方面非常自律。我們將繼續嚴格控制開支，並將繼續保持這種狀態。但我們的損益平衡、EBITDA 正成長將來自額外收入、持續收入和 GMV 成長。我們的目標是，到 2025 年，圍繞我們的支出基礎，實現中等個位數收入成長的營業利潤率槓桿。

So we're structuring our expenses to produce, better bottom line once we exceed that mid digit revenue growth in 2025.

因此，我們正在調整支出結構，以便在 2025 年收入成長超過中等水平後，實現更好的盈利。

Ralph Schackart, William Blair.

拉爾夫·沙卡特、威廉·布萊爾。

Good morning, thanks for taking the question.

早上好，感謝您回答這個問題。

Just in terms of, the script you talked about expecting churn normalization in the first half of 2025. Can you maybe just give us an update there, the signals you're seeing, how that's progressing, and then I have a follow up.

就您談到的預計 2025 年上半年客戶流失率將正常化的腳本而言。您能否向我們提供最新消息，您看到的信號，進展情況，然後我會跟進。

Sure, so, hi Ralph. The most important metric that we optimize to on the supply side is listings rather than the number of sellers, and we were happy with our progress there in the fourth quarter. We ended with over 1.8 million listings, which was up 5% year over year. We did see a spike in churn, as I think the majority of that came from retiring our essential seller program in the fourth quarter. The essential seller program is the one. Under which we offered a zero-sub fee plan for sellers.

當然，嗨，拉爾夫。我們在供應方面優化的最重要指標是上市數量而不是賣家數量，我們對第四季度的進展感到滿意。我們最終擁有超過 180 萬個列表，年增 5%。我們確實看到了客戶流失率的激增，因為我認為其中大部分是由於我們在第四季度退出了重要賣家計劃。基本賣家計劃就是其中之一。我們為賣家提供了零訂閱費用方案。

Of the roughly 2,200 unique sellers that were affected by that change, over 1,200 upgraded to a monthly sub plan. So what we did there is we retired it and asked people either to leave or to pay a minimum monthly sub fee, and again, 1,200 out of the 2,200 that were impacted by that chose to upgrade to the paid program.

在受此變化影響的約 2,200 名獨立賣家中，超過 1,200 名升級為月度訂閱方案。因此，我們採取的措施是停止使用該服務，並要求人們要么離開，要么支付最低的每月訂閱費，同樣，在受影響的 2,200 人中，有 1,200 人選擇升級到付費計劃。

But I think importantly the churn cohort accounted for less than 30 basis points of GMV and also less than 40 basis points of listings over the prior 12 months, meaning the sellers that left sort of self-selected into, neither using the marketplace nor of course correspondingly being willing to pay for it, and we were fine with that. If they're not committed to it, they're not going to be. Successful looking forward, we expect churn to normalize sometime in the first half of this year and also to see continued listings growth.

但我認為重要的是，流失群體在過去 12 個月中佔 GMV 的不到 30 個基點，佔上市數量的不到 40 個基點，這意味著離開的賣家是自我選擇的，既不使用市場，當然也不願意為其付費，我們對此感到滿意。如果他們不致力於此，他們就不會這麼做。展望未來，我們預期客戶流失率將在今年上半年恢復正常，上市數量將持續成長。

It's helpful, David. And then just one more for me, a few times in the script today you referenced mid-single digit revenue growth. I think for 2025 is just want to clarify is that what you're contemplating for 2025, or is that sort of the optimal level that you would need or the condition you would need to return back to showing leverage in the model.

這很有幫助，大衛。然後我再說一句，在今天的演講中，您幾次提到了中等個位數的收入成長。我認為對於 2025 年，我只是想澄清一下，您對 2025 年的考慮是什麼，或者這是您需要的最佳水平，或者是您需要重新顯示模型中的槓桿率的條件。

Thank you.

謝謝。

No, I think what we were talking about was, we don't give guidance for the full year, but we sort of wanted to give directional, I don't know, confidence that we believe that we have the ability to grow GMV this year and, without putting numbers on it. And I think, look, it's important to kind of zoom out for a second and recognize that, '24 over '23 was I think an important inflection point for us as a company.

不，我認為我們談論的是，我們不會給出全年的指導，但我們有點想給出方向性，我不知道，我們相信我們有能力在今年實現 GMV 增長，但沒有給出具體數字。我認為，重要的是要把眼光放遠一點，認識 24 年相對於 23 年是我們公司的重要轉捩點。

The prior year GMV shrank by 15% in line with the market, and last year GMV was flat, of course with a with a pretty healthy exit rate and we GMV growth rate and we expect to see GMV growth to continue into 2025. At the same time, it's also important to note that our expense base is set up to deliver operating margin leverage in the mid-single digits of revenue growth. So that may have been what you're referring to.

前一年，GMV 與市場同步萎縮了 15%，去年 GMV 持平，當然，退出率和 GMV 成長率都相當健康，我們預計 GMV 成長將持續到 2025 年。同時，值得注意的是，我們的支出基礎是為了在收入成長的中位數個位數中實現營業利潤率槓桿而設立的。這可能就是您所指的。

Hopefully that clarifies it.

希望這能澄清這一點。

It does. Thank You.

確實如此。謝謝。

There are no further questions at this time, but that, ladies and gentlemen, that concludes your conference call. We thank you for participating and ask you to please disconnect your lines.

目前沒有其他問題，女士們、先生們，你們的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與，並請您斷開線路。