DeFi Development Corp (Nevada) (DFDV) 2025 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning. Welcome to DeFi Development Corp's full-year 2025 business update call. I'm Dan Kang, Chief Strategy Officer and Head of Investor Relations. Joining me today are Joseph Onorati, Chief Executive Officer; John Han, our Chief Financial Officer; and Parker White, our Chief Operating Officer and Chief Investment Officer.

早安。歡迎參加 DeFi Development Corp 2025 全年業務更新電話會議。我是 Dan Kang，首席策略長兼投資人關係主管。今天與我一同出席的有：執行長 Joseph Onorati；財務長 John Han；以及營運長兼投資長 Parker White。

As a reminder, we will be making forward-looking statements during this call. Actual results may differ materially due to risks and uncertainties, which are outlined in our filings with the SEC, including our Form 10-K. Our latest shareholder letter was published yesterday, March 30, after market close, and is available on our website. We'll begin today by answering questions submitted by retail investors, followed by questions from the sell side.

提醒各位，本次電話會議中我們將發表前瞻性陳述。由於風險與不確定性，實際結果可能與預期有重大差異；相關內容已在我們向 SEC 提交的文件（包括 Form 10-K）中說明。我們最新的股東信已於昨日 3 月 30 日收盤後發布，並可於我們網站查閱。今天我們將先回答散戶投資人提交的問題，接著回答賣方分析師的提問。

Our first question is from retail. The question is, you cut June 2026 SOL per share SPS guidance from 0.165 to 0.085 SOL per share but maintained one SOL per share by December 2028. That implies a dramatic acceleration in 2027 and 2028. What specifically needs to happen in 2027 to put you on that trajectory? Is it primarily mNAV recovery, SOL price appreciation, or something else?

第一個問題來自散戶。問題是：你們將 2026 年 6 月每股 SOL（SPS）指引從每股 0.165 下修至每股 0.085 SOL，但仍維持 2028 年 12 月達到每股 1 SOL 的目標。這意味著 2027 與 2028 年將出現大幅加速。2027 年具體需要發生什麼，才能讓你們走在這條軌跡上？主要是 mNAV 回升、SOL 價格上漲，還是其他因素？

Thank you for the question. Yes, we did cut our SOL per share guidance in early February. I know the magnitude of the cut might be jarring, but assuming we hit the 0.085 SOL per share number, it would still be a fantastic result. That would represent over 100% SOL per share growth, or 100% total SOL yield, on a trailing 12-month basis. And, to put this number in perspective, Strategy achieved a 23% yield in their full year 2025.

謝謝你的提問。是的，我們在 2 月初下修了每股 SOL 指引。我知道下修幅度可能令人震驚，但若我們達成每股 0.085 SOL，仍會是非常出色的成果。以過去 12 個月（TTM）計算，這將代表每股 SOL 成長超過 100%，或 100% 的 SOL 總殖利率。為了讓大家更有概念，Strategy 在 2025 全年達成的殖利率為 23%。

The other thing I'll note is that the guidance that we provided was our actual internal forecast, right? We don’t try to sandbag. We want investors to know that the number they're seeing is, in fact, the real number we're trying to hit. And we have ambitious targets.

另外我想補充的是，我們提供的指引其實就是我們內部的實際預測，對吧？我們不會刻意保守低估。我們希望投資人知道，他們看到的數字確實就是我們真正努力要達成的數字。而且我們的目標很有企圖心。

But, of course, conditions changed fairly dramatically from the time we put out the guidance. Probably the biggest one was the mNAV compression we saw across the entire digital asset treasury space. So, on June 30 of last year, our fully diluted mNAV was around 3.0x.

但當然，自我們發布指引以來，市場狀況出現了相當劇烈的變化。其中最大的一項，可能是我們在整個數位資產財庫（digital asset treasury）領域看到的 mNAV 壓縮。因此，在去年 6 月 30 日，我們完全稀釋後的 mNAV 約為 3.0 倍。

That means we could effectively issue significant amounts of equity to grow SOL per share, right? And today, fully diluted mNAV actually sits at a discount. I view this as less a reflection of DFDV and much more a reflection of a crowded market. Definitionally, if there are more [DATs] chasing the same pool of capital, mNAV have to compress because NAB premiums contain what I've called an embedded expectation of future crypto accumulation.

這代表我們基本上可以透過發行相當規模的股權來提升每股 SOL，對吧？而今天，完全稀釋後的 mNAV 實際上處於折價狀態。我認為這較少反映 DFDV 本身，更多是反映市場過於擁擠。從定義上來說，如果有更多 [DATs] 追逐同一池資金，mNAV 就必然會被壓縮，因為 NAB 溢價包含了我所稱的「對未來加密資產累積的內嵌預期」。

We cut to 0.085 by the end of this June. That guidance is effective as of today as well. We are reaffirming this number. We've embedded, I'll just say, much more conservative assumptions into this figure. We expect we'll provide a June 2027 guidance figure as well when the time comes. As far as the one SOL per share target look, we're all crypto bulls.

我們將今年 6 月底的目標下修至 0.085。這項指引從今天起同樣有效。我們重申這個數字。我只能說，我們在這個數字中納入了更為保守的假設。等時機成熟時，我們也預期會提供 2027 年 6 月的指引數字。至於每股 1 SOL 的目標，你看，我們都是加密多頭。

So, of course, we expect crypto markets will turn at some point in the next one to two years. Obviously, to the extent that they don’t, and we hit some unprecedented three year bear market, this would obviously change the equation a bit, but we don’t expect that to be the case. In fact, I expect a much more constructive crypto market in 2027, and I'm excited to see SOL continue its march towards 10-K.

所以當然，我們預期加密市場會在未來一到兩年內某個時間點轉向。顯然，如果市場沒有轉向，而我們遇到前所未見的三年熊市，這當然會讓整個方程式有所不同，但我們不預期會是那樣。事實上，我預期 2027 年的加密市場會更具建設性，我也很期待看到 SOL 持續朝 10-K 邁進。

Question number two when is DFDV looking to accumulate more Solana? I'll take this. It more or less piggybacks off the prior question.

第二個問題：DFDV 何時打算累積更多 Solana？我來回答這題。這基本上是承接上一題。

The answer is as soon as possible. We mentioned this in our letter, but we think now is a great time to be accumulating Solana. Understand there’s geopolitical uncertainty that could impact risk assets further. But the reality is we're focused on where SOL is going to be next year and in five years and over the next decade, right? Not where SOL is going to be next Monday.

答案是：越快越好。我們在股東信中提到過，但我們認為現在是累積 Solana 的好時機。我們理解地緣政治不確定性可能會進一步影響風險資產。但現實是，我們關注的是 SOL 明年、五年後以及未來十年的位置，對吧？而不是 SOL 下週一會在哪裡。

So, feasibly, how could we accumulate more SOL. First off, we have our organic yield, right? This means that we're generating more SOL on a daily basis, and that continues to be the case. The other thing is we do sit on north of $10 million of cash and cash equivalents as of today.

那麼，實務上我們要如何累積更多 SOL？首先，我們有有機收益（organic yield），對吧？這表示我們每天都在產生更多 SOL，而這點仍在持續。另外，截至今天，我們也持有超過 1,000 萬美元的現金及約當現金。

This does include what we call assets readily available and exchangeable for cash, some of which is earning yield for us as well. But we would like to keep a certain, I’m going to say, amount of cash to cover our operating and interest expenses and I can let John touch on that in a little bit over here. So really, the primary constraint is mostly on the capital-raising front. And on the capital-raising front, we're going to be opportunistic and make sure anything we do is going to set us up for long-term success.

其中也包含我們所稱「可立即取得並可兌換為現金的資產」，其中一部分也在為我們賺取收益。但我們希望保留一定的現金水位，用以支付營運與利息費用；稍後我會請 John 再補充說明。因此，真正的主要限制多半在募資端。而在募資方面，我們會把握機會，並確保我們所做的任何事情都能讓公司在長期上取得成功。

For example, we've spoken about our preference for unsecured long-term debt for example, like the convertible note we did last summer that allows us to weather a prolonged bear market. We have a preference for, say, equity deals with minimal warrant overhangs so that we minimize future share dilution.

例如，我們談過我們偏好無擔保的長期債務，例如去年夏天我們發行的可轉換公司債，這能讓我們度過較長時間的熊市。我們也偏好例如附帶最少認股權證負擔（warrant overhang）的股權交易，以將未來股本稀釋降到最低。

We don't have any commentary to provide on a preferred equity offering, but needless to say, that's another avenue we've been excited about for quite some time. Probably the biggest thing we need to see is likely need to see sentiment in crypto and risk assets more broadly return before we can really start to, I'm going to say, raise capital in a way that makes sense for our business.

我們目前沒有就優先股發行提供任何評論，但不必多說，這也是我們長期以來相當感興趣的另一條途徑。我們最需要看到的，可能是加密市場以及更廣泛的風險資產情緒回升，之後我們才能真正以對公司業務合理的方式來募資。

Question number three what avenues are you using to generate cash to purchase more Solana? And when do you feel your free cash flow will be consistently positive? John, you want to take that one?

第三個問題：你們透過哪些途徑產生現金來購買更多 Solana？以及你們何時認為自由現金流會穩定轉為正值？John，你要回答這題嗎？

So building on DK's comments. Our business generates organic yield, right? This allows us to accumulate more Solana on a daily basis. Beyond that, the next leg of capital for additional Solana purchases depends on the capital market's activity resuming, which has honestly and very clearly been sluggish. So for context, the price of Solana has been down about 60% since our $125 million equity pipe.

延續 DK 的評論。我們的業務會產生有機收益率，對吧？這讓我們能夠以每日為單位累積更多 Solana。除此之外，用於額外購買 Solana 的下一階段資金，取決於資本市場活動是否恢復；坦白說，而且非常明顯地，一直相當疲弱。作為背景，自我們完成 1.25 億美元的股權 PIPE 以來，Solana 的價格已下跌約 60%。

And over the same time, our fully valued mNAV is down about 65%. That brings us to leverage, which is the natural option. And we're being very deliberate about the type and amount of leverage that we take on. Importantly, not all of our Solana growth peers in reported cash flows.

在同一期間，我們的完全估值 mNAV 下跌約 65%。這就帶到槓桿，這是很自然的選項。而我們對於要採用的槓桿類型與槓桿規模都非常審慎。重要的是，我們的 Solana 成長並非全部都會反映在已揭露的現金流中。

So for example, with DFDV Solana, which is the liquid staking token, the incremental value actually accrues directly on the token, the liquid staking token, and does not flow through revenue or cash flow statements unless we actually sold it.

例如，以 DFDV Solana（也就是流動質押代幣）來說，增量價值其實是直接累積在該代幣上、也就是流動質押代幣本身；除非我們實際把它賣掉，否則不會流經營收或現金流量表。

So as a result. You can think about it as our income statement and cash flow don't fully state and basically underestimate the full economic benefit of our Solana yield and growth. On the OpEx side, we saw a year-on-year increase in 2025 versus 2024. So no surprise there, as one would expect given the adoption of the digital asset treasury business.

因此。你可以把它理解為：我們的損益表與現金流並未完整呈現、基本上低估了我們 Solana 收益率與成長的全部經濟效益。在營業費用（OpEx）方面，我們看到 2025 年相較 2024 年年增。這並不意外，因為隨著數位資產庫存（treasury）業務的採用，這是可預期的。

The increase was mainly driven by investments in software, talent, and partnerships with leading organizations within the Solana ecosystem. The spend is strategic. It's an investment in infrastructure that no other publicly listed company has built to this extent, as far as we're aware. So it's all designed to grow our Solana balance.

這項增加主要由對軟體、人才，以及與 Solana 生態系內領先組織的合作投資所帶動。這些支出具有策略性。據我們所知，這是對基礎設施的投資，沒有其他上市公司在這個程度上建立過。因此，這一切都是為了增加我們的 Solana 持有量而設計。

All right. Thanks, John. Next question. Will DFDV be purchasing back more shares at these low levels? Is there a NAV or some other metric that you are looking at to help decide when to buy back shares? Joseph, you want to take this?

好的。謝謝你，John。下一題。DFDV 會在這些低檔水準回購更多股票嗎？你們是否會看 NAV 或其他指標來協助決定何時回購？Joseph，你要回答嗎？

Sure. In the short-term, I don't expect that we would be doing more buybacks unless the stock price declines more relative to SOL. Now, the Board has approved the ability to do more buybacks. So it's up to management discretion within the guidelines from the Board now. So we have the ability to run the buyback, but like I said, I don't expect that we will unless price declines relative to SOL.

當然。短期內，除非股價相對於 SOL 進一步下跌，否則我不預期我們會進行更多回購。目前董事會已核准我們可以進一步回購。因此，在董事會所訂指引範圍內，現在由管理層酌情決定。所以我們有能力執行回購，但如我所說，除非價格相對於 SOL 下跌，否則我不預期我們會做。

And part of the reason for that is because we have good opportunities for yield generation on cash right now, and we're focused on preparing for more capital raising and the. Additional cash on the balance sheet would give us more optionality.

其中一部分原因是，我們目前在現金的收益生成方面有不錯的機會，而且我們正專注於為更多募資做準備，以及。資產負債表上額外的現金會給我們更多選擇權。

Now, for the mNAV view that we use for decision making internally, we've landed on the fully converted view. I understand that this view is potentially controversial, and I want to explain it. We came at this from the perspective of the company's strategy and its positioning relative to peers.

至於我們內部用於決策的 mNAV 觀點，我們採用的是完全轉換（fully converted）的視角。我理解這個視角可能具有爭議，我想解釋一下。我們是從公司策略以及相對同業的定位角度來思考這件事。

We believe that DATs differentiate themselves from ETFs and other investment opportunities in the underlying asset in Solana. With what I refer to as safe leverage. For an individual crypto investor, their access to leverage in crypto comes with really extreme, frankly, extreme risk. So for example, individuals can trade an ETF on margin or trade with leverage on perpetual swap markets or maybe trade the underlying on a centralized crypto exchanges margin account.

我們相信，DAT 與 ETF 以及其他投資 Solana 底層資產的機會之間的差異，在於我所稱的「安全槓桿」。以我所說的安全槓桿而言。對個別加密投資人來說，他們在加密市場取得槓桿的方式伴隨非常極端、坦白說是極端的風險。例如，個人可以用保證金交易 ETF，或在永續合約市場用槓桿交易，或許也可以在中心化加密交易所的保證金帳戶交易現貨標的。

These are all short-term leverage and they're all secured. If the market moves against the investor gets margin called or liquidated. DATs are different from individual investors via their exposure to different types of leverage. So DATs have access to what I'd say is much friendlier sources of leverage.

這些都是短期槓桿，而且都是有擔保的。如果市場走勢不利於投資人，就會被追繳保證金或遭到強制平倉。DAT 與個別投資人不同之處，在於其可接觸到不同類型的槓桿曝險。因此，DAT 能取得我認為更友善的槓桿來源。

For example, our convertible debt financing is not secured. It's got a much lower interest rate than funding rates typically are or margin rates for borrowing on centralized crypto exchanges, and it has a duration of five years.

例如，我們的可轉換債融資是無擔保的。其利率遠低於中心化加密交易所借款通常的資金費率或保證金利率，而且期限為五年。

Even better than the convertible debt might be perpetual preferred stock like STRC issued by Strategy, where the duration is unlimited. In essence, the loan, kind of in quotes, never has to be repaid. So it's very hard for DFDV or Micro strategy to get margin calls and to be a forced seller of Solana or whatever the DATs underlying crypto asset is, while also having the capability to maintain that leverage in the long-term and through a bear market.

甚至比可轉換債更好的，可能是像 Strategy 發行的 STRC 這類永續型優先股，其期限是無限期的。本質上，這筆「貸款」（某種意義上）永遠不必償還。因此，DFDV 或 MicroStrategy 很難被追繳保證金，並被迫賣出 Solana 或 DAT 所持有的任何底層加密資產；同時也具備在長期、以及穿越熊市期間維持槓桿的能力。

Given this advantage, we believe there's three core tenets to our strategy that can tie into mNAV. So one is we're long-term bullish on Solana. Two is, as I've laid out, we want more safe leverage, not less. We need to avoid delevering in bear markets. We should delever in more. Bull markets, not in the bear. And this is the opposite of what a, say, 2 x leveraged ETF would do. We want to avoid volatility decay.

基於這項優勢，我們認為我們的策略有三個可與 mNAV 連結的核心原則。第一，我們長期看多 Solana。第二，如我所述，我們希望有更多安全槓桿，而不是更少。我們必須避免在熊市去槓桿。我們應該在。牛市去槓桿，而不是在熊市。而這與例如 2 倍槓桿 ETF 的作法相反。我們希望避免波動耗損（volatility decay）。

We're diamond-handed in the bear. And number three. SOL per share is the number one metric for the company, and this is different from NAV per share. Given these tenants, we need an mNAV view that would not indicate that we should issue stock and deliver in down markets. But those in mind, we use fully converted MNAV as our internal guideposts on when we believe it's accretive to issue additional equity.

在熊市我們會堅定持有（diamond-handed）。第三。每股 SOL 是公司最重要的指標，這不同於每股 NAV。基於這些原則，我們需要一個 mNAV 視角，不會暗示我們應該在下跌市場發行股票並去槓桿。考量這些，我們以完全轉換 mNAV 作為內部判斷何時發行額外股權具有增厚效益（accretive）的指引。

Next question. What is the single most important near-term milestone, let's say next six to 12 months. That would make you confident that DFDV can truly become the microstrategy or strategy of Solana? And how do you plan to hit it without excessive dilution? Joseph, you should take this one too.

下一題。在近期（例如未來 6 到 12 個月）最重要的單一里程碑是什麼？它會讓你有信心 DFDV 真的能成為 Solana 的 MicroStrategy 或 Strategy 嗎？你們打算如何在不過度稀釋的情況下達成？Joseph，你也應該回答這題。

Yeah, I don't think there's actually just one single milestone that would determine this, but there are some critical ones that we'd certainly like to achieve. And one of them, at some point in the future, is going to market with a preferred equity instrument. We think preferred equity remains highly compelling.

是的，我不認為真的只有一個單一里程碑能決定這件事，但確實有一些關鍵里程碑是我們很希望達成的。其中之一是在未來某個時間點，推出一種優先股權工具並進入市場。我們認為優先股權仍然非常具有吸引力。

For the reasons we previously discussed, and to the extent that we can get one out in market, stabilize that instrument's price, hopefully around par, and get an ATM on it, that would become a great source of capital for the company going forward. And we're not able to comment on timing, but it remains a top focus.

基於我們先前討論過的原因，並且在我們能夠把該工具推向市場、穩定其價格（希望接近面值）並在其上建立 ATM（隨市發行機制）的前提下，這將成為公司未來非常重要的資本來源。我們無法評論時間點，但這仍然是最優先的重點。

Another, I guess, point on the preferred that's important for shareholders to understand is that it's not dilutive to common equity, both from the standpoint of not increasing the total share count, and also because we rate yield on the SOL that we would buy with the proceeds of future fundraising.

另外，關於優先股，我想還有一點對股東來說很重要：它不會稀釋普通股權益——一方面不會增加總股數；另一方面，因為我們會以未來募資所得去購買的 SOL 來評估其收益率。

So we don't need to issue additional common to pay the future dividends on a preferred if we had one in market. And on a slightly different note, we do expect that in a bull market that mNAVs would return to a premium and if. The company was trading at a premium in the bull markets, investors should expect us to run the ATM or to issue common at levels where we believe it is accretive through fall per share or where it will increase fall per share.

因此，如果我們在市場上有一檔優先股，我們不需要再發行額外普通股來支付未來的優先股股息。另外稍微不同的一點是，我們確實預期在多頭市場中，mNAV 會回到溢價；而且如果。公司在多頭市場以溢價交易，投資人應該預期我們會運行 ATM，或在我們認為具增益（accretive）的價位發行普通股，以提升每股 FFO，或使每股 FFO 增加。

Awesome. Thanks, Joseph. Let's take an institutional question now. This one comes from the team over at Cantor Fitzgerald. Can the team talk about. The recent announcement backing the [Apyx] protocol. Will DFDV have an ownership interest in the protocol and what type of impact might it have financially? Joseph, take this one.

太棒了。謝謝你，Joseph。我們現在來看一個機構投資人的問題。這題來自 Cantor Fitzgerald 團隊。團隊能否談談。近期宣布支持 [Apyx] 協議的消息。DFDV 是否會在該協議中擁有所有權權益？在財務上可能會帶來什麼影響？Joseph，你來回答這題。

Yeah, thanks. So I'll comment a bit more on this coupled with the next question, but we cannot disclose or are not disclosing DFDV ownership interest in Apyx at this time. But I can say that we deployed a de minimis amount of cash into the project.

好的，謝謝。我會把這題和下一題一起多補充一些，但我們目前不能披露、或不會披露 DFDV 在 Apyx 的持股/所有權權益。不過我可以說，我們向該專案投入了極小額（de minimis）的現金。

Good. Piggyback to the next question, which is also Apyx related. Can you share more details on the nature of the relationship and partnership with Apyx? Does this increase the sold per share flywheel? How? Separately, what has the team been doing with staked sole profits?

很好。接著延伸到下一題，也與 Apyx 有關。你們能否分享更多與 Apyx 的關係與合作夥伴性質的細節？這是否會增加 SPS（每股 SOL）飛輪效應？如何增加？另外，團隊如何處理質押 SOL 的收益？

It would be a bit of a long answer. So first we'll start with what is. Apyx. So Apyx is a decentralized finance protocol with a yield-bearing stablecoin. The project launched about a month ago and total assets associated with the project are over 65 million now.

這會是一個比較長的回答。所以我們先從什麼是。Apyx 開始。Apyx 是一個去中心化金融（DeFi）協議，提供可生息的穩定幣。該專案大約在一個月前上線，目前與專案相關的總資產已超過 6,500 萬。

The protocol generates yield by holding variable rate perpetual preferred stocks such as STRC issued by Strategy or SATA issued by Strive. Apyx is an independent protocol from DFDV. DFDV made a one-time strategic investment in Apyx, and several members of our team are founding contributors to the project. But DFDV does not control the project's decisions.

該協議透過持有浮動利率的永續優先股來產生收益，例如 Strategy 發行的 STRC 或 Strive 發行的 SATA。Apyx 是獨立於 DFDV 的協議。DFDV 對 Apyx 進行了一次性的策略性投資，我們團隊中也有數位成員是該專案的創始貢獻者。但 DFDV 不控制該專案的決策。

DFDV participated in Apyx's fundraise and seeks to continue to partner with Apyx because there are significant synergies between DFDV and Apyx. As our investors may know, DFDV has been exploring issuing a preferred instrument since summer of last year. We filed an S-1 for a variable rate perpetual preferred stock similar to STRC, and we believe that these types of instruments are ideal for DATs to get leverage in what we think is a safe way.

DFDV 參與了 Apyx 的募資，並希望持續與 Apyx 合作，因為 DFDV 與 Apyx 之間存在顯著的協同效應。如投資人可能知道的，DFDV 自去年夏天起一直在探索發行一種優先工具。我們已提交一份 S-1，內容為一種類似 STRC 的浮動利率永續優先股；我們認為這類工具非常適合 DAT 以我們認為安全的方式取得槓桿。

We expect many DATs to issue these types of instruments, and we're hopeful that DFDV will be able to as well. Given our view on these types of instruments, we think a strategic partnership with Apyx is. Essentially a no-brainer for digital asset treasury companies looking for leverage, because Apyx should drive demand for the preferreds, which increases the amount of capital that can be raised by the DATs while also potentially reducing the cost of capital.

我們預期許多 DAT 都會發行這類工具，也希望 DFDV 也能做到。基於我們對這類工具的看法，我們認為與 Apyx 的策略合作。對於尋求槓桿的數位資產金庫公司而言，基本上是不需要多想的選擇，因為 Apyx 應能帶動對優先股的需求，進而提高 DAT 可募集的資本規模，同時也可能降低資本成本。

To specifically answer the questions. DFDV made a one-time strategic investment in Apyx. Apyx is independent from DFDV, but DFDV intends to continue to partner and participate with Apyx into the future. We believe the long-term growth path for DATs is tied to variable rate perpetual preferred issuance and perhaps similar long-term instruments outside of the variable rate prefs --

具體回答這些問題。DFDV 對 Apyx 進行了一次性的策略性投資。Apyx 獨立於 DFDV，但 DFDV 打算在未來持續與 Apyx 合作並參與其中。我們相信 DAT 的長期成長路徑與浮動利率永續優先股的發行密切相關，或許也包括浮動利率優先股以外的類似長天期工具--

Yes, we think the relationship can accelerate the SPS flywheel.

是的，我們認為這段關係可以加速 SPS 飛輪效應。

Now for the other questions that were not about Apyx, what's the team been doing with staked SOL profits? We either hold the staking yield from the SOL or we sell it. In late 2025, we used some of the proceeds of the fail of the fall yield to buy back with Doc.

至於其他不是關於 Apyx 的問題：團隊如何處理質押 SOL 的收益？我們要嘛持有 SOL 的質押收益，要嘛把它賣掉。在 2025 年底，我們用部分 fail of the fall yield 的收益去回購 with Doc。

I believe this is the last question we have on Apyx. This one's from Craig Hallam. For an investor looking at the Apyx stablecoin, I assume the advantage is a much higher dividend rate via the DAT preferred yields. What is the feedback you have heard from investors? Parker, you want to take this? I can talk a bit about the investor feedback after.

我相信這是我們最後一題關於 Apyx 的問題。這題來自 Craig Hallam。對於一位在看 Apyx 穩定幣的投資人而言，我假設其優勢是透過 DAT 優先股收益取得更高的股息率。你們從投資人那裡聽到的回饋是什麼？Parker，你要回答嗎？我之後也可以補充一些投資人回饋。

So if you look across the DeFi landscape, especially in a bear market, people want yield, right? They're not excited about the direction of crypto assets. They want to park their cash. Most people, crypto's kind of a one-way door. Most people deploy capital into crypto and they don't pull it out. They just move from a volatile crypto asset like SOL into stablecoins and wait until they see the next trading opportunity.

如果你觀察整個 DeFi 生態，尤其在熊市時，人們想要收益，對吧？他們對加密資產的走勢不會太興奮。他們想把現金停放起來。對大多數人來說，加密有點像單向門。多數人把資本投入加密後不會把它抽離。他們只是把資金從像 SOL 這種波動較大的加密資產轉到穩定幣，然後等到看到下一個交易機會。

And so when sitting in stablecoins, people obviously, like anybody, want to generate some yield. They want to get paid to wait. But if you look across the yield landscape, the kind of the ceiling rate right now is about 5%. And you've seen a number of these yield-bearing stablecoins that have launched over the last couple of years, but their yields have all come down.

因此，當資金停在穩定幣裡時，大家當然都希望能產生一些收益。他們希望在等待的同時也能拿到報酬。但如果你看整個收益市場，目前的「天花板」利率大約是 5%。過去幾年你也看到不少可生息的穩定幣推出，但它們的收益率都一路下滑。

And maybe more importantly, their sources of yield are, in many cases, illiquid, and in almost all cases, not transparent. So it's maybe trading strategies, it's maybe some flavor of private credit, it's reinsurance, so on and so forth. And so there's a real gap in the market for high yield that is both fully liquid and very transparent. And so what Apyx provides is essentially that investors all across crypto can access a high single to low double-digit yield that has a very liquid.

而且也許更重要的是，它們的收益來源在很多情況下缺乏流動性，且幾乎在所有情況下都不透明。所以可能是交易策略、可能是某種形式的私募信貸、再保險等等。因此市場上確實存在一個缺口：需要同時具備完全流動性且高度透明的高收益產品。而 Apyx 所提供的，本質上是讓整個加密市場的投資人都能取得高個位數到低雙位數的收益，而且具有非常高的流動性。

And transparent backing. It's these preferred stocks in a brokerage account. You can see it, you can get audits on it, you can have API streams on it. It's very straightforward. Now, of course, these things can fluctuate, but people can understand the risks. They can model the risk, they can structure the risk.

以及透明的資產支撐。這些是放在券商帳戶裡的優先股。你看得到它，你可以對它做審計，你也可以對它開 API 串流。這非常直接明瞭。當然，這些東西可能會波動，但人們能理解其中的風險。他們可以建模風險，也可以設計風險結構。

And so this is a real kind of departure from what exists in crypto today. And we think is pretty interesting. And I think the growth that we've seen over the last month. Is evidence of that. The 65 million is, these are just people that we don't know that are just buying the coin all over the world, which is pretty exciting.

因此，這與當今加密市場中既有的做法是一次真正的偏離。而我們認為這相當有意思。而且我認為我們在過去一個月看到的成長，就是這一點的證明。這 6,500 萬是——這些只是我們不認識的人在全球各地買這個幣，這相當令人興奮。

You sold me, Parker. That was a really good elevator pitch there. Look, as far as investor feedback, investors I've spoken to thus far on non-deal roadshows over the last few weeks, investors are really excited that we backed this. I think it demonstrates our willingness to take the right asymmetric bets. And help bring new exciting crypto projects to life.

你說服我了，Parker。那段電梯簡報真的很棒。你看，就投資人回饋而言，我在過去幾週的非交易路演中與之交談過的投資人，對我們支持這件事都非常興奮。我認為這展現了我們願意做出正確的非對稱押注。並協助把令人振奮的新加密專案帶到世上。

I had some investors scratching their heads a bit when I presented this at strategy world. And if you haven't seen the keynote, highly recommend it. It's full of theatrics. But I did stress with said investors who were curious about this, that this is a separate entity, not too dissimilar from, the arrangements that we have in place with our Treasury Accelerator program, for example, where there's a separate team calling the shots. But obviously a lot of potential synergies between the two entities.

當我在 strategy world 介紹這個時，有些投資人有點摸不著頭緒。如果你還沒看過那場主題演講，我非常推薦。裡面充滿戲劇效果。但我也向那些對此感到好奇的投資人強調，這是一個獨立的實體，與例如我們在 Treasury Accelerator 計畫中採用的安排並沒有太大不同——那裡也有一個獨立團隊在做決策。但顯然兩個實體之間存在許多潛在的協同效應。

All right, next question. Can you provide any color on the contribution to SOL earnings in the quarter outside of native staking? How much did your validators, your liquid staking token, or other DeFi actions contribute to SOL earned during the period? And can you discuss how you think this mix evolves? Parker, you want to give a little bit of color there?

好，下一題。你能否就本季 SOL 收益中、原生質押以外的貢獻提供一些說明？在此期間，你們的驗證者、你們的流動質押代幣，或其他 DeFi 操作，對所賺取的 SOL 貢獻了多少？以及你能否談談你認為這個組合會如何演變？Parker，你要不要補充一些說明？

So if we look at 10% as kind of that rough yield guideline, give or take a little bit in maybe either direction, off of that, I'd say about 20% to 30% of the organic yield comes from the non-native staking activities. So this would be the validator profits directly, both first party and third-party. This would be the DeFi operations with DFDV SOL and some other things that we can do. And then I would bucket in other organic. Activities as well.

如果我們把 10% 視為一個大致的收益率指引，上下可能略有浮動，在此基礎上，我會說大約 20% 到 30% 的有機收益來自非原生質押活動。這包括驗證者利潤本身，包含自營與第三方。也包括我們用 DFDV SOL 以及其他一些我們能做的事情所進行的 DeFi 操作。然後我也會把其他有機的活動一併歸類在內。

That's kind of the broad catch all. That's kind of how we think about it. We're able to stack again, 20% to 30% extra. In terms of evolution over time, this is, I would say, somewhat tied to the market environment. In a bull market, when Solana revenue is up, validated profits are obviously up. There's more opportunities in DeFi. There's greater liquidity there. We can actually grow the organic yield a little greater and a larger portion of that comes from the non-native stake.

這算是一個廣義的統稱。我們大致是這樣思考的。我們能再疊加 20% 到 30% 的額外收益。至於隨時間的演變，我會說這在某種程度上與市場環境相關。在牛市中，當 Solana 的收入上升時，驗證者利潤顯然也會上升。DeFi 的機會更多。那裡的流動性更充足。我們其實可以把有機收益再提高一些，而且其中更大一部分會來自非原生質押。

In a bear market, when there's less activity going on, there's less to do, there's less liquidity, then I would say the kind of Incremental on top of the native stake comes down a little bit. So we're kind of in that maybe comes down a little bit period, but as the bull market returns, we're going to be able to, our expectation is to be able to expand the extra incremental piece.

在熊市中，當活動變少、可做的事情變少、流動性也變少時，我會說在原生質押之上額外增加的那部分會下降一些。所以我們目前大概處於「可能會下降一些」的階段，但當牛市回來時，我們的預期是能夠擴大那個額外增量的部分。

Awesome. Thanks for the color, Parker. Next question. Can you update us on DFDV SOL in terms of DeFi integrations, supply, and how you see that fitting into the future growth of the overall strategy? Parker, another one for you.

太棒了。謝謝你的說明，Parker。下一題。你能否就 DFDV SOL 的 DeFi 整合、供給量，以及你如何看待它融入整體策略未來成長，向我們更新一下？Parker，這題也給你。

So today we've got about 615,000 DFDV SOL tokens in the market, and this is continuing to grow over time. But in terms of integrations, we've pretty much got the coin integrated throughout all of Solana DeFi. So we announced most recently an integration with Jupiter Lend, which was, I'd say, maybe the last major milestone or last major platform that we were not integrated on.

目前市場上大約有 615,000 枚 DFDV SOL 代幣，而且這個數字會隨時間持續成長。但就整合而言，我們幾乎已經把這個幣整合到 Solana DeFi 的各個角落。我們最近宣布與 Jupiter Lend 的整合，我會說那可能是我們尚未整合的最後一個主要里程碑或最後一個主要平台。

But from here on out it's going to be focused on new platforms, so continuing to watch the space. And as new emerging platforms come up, we may push to get DFDV SOL integrated early. But in terms of the major integrations, we've covered all the bases at this point.

但從現在開始，重點會放在新平台上，也就是持續關注這個領域。當新的新興平台出現時，我們可能會推動讓 DFDV SOL 及早完成整合。但就主要整合而言，目前我們已經把該做的都做到了。

So now it's a bit of a growth story and just telling the story of DFDV SOL, continuing to be out there in the market, building investor trust and confidence. But in terms of integrations, we've done all the major ones at this point.

所以接下來更像是一個成長故事，也就是把 DFDV SOL 的故事講出去，持續在市場上曝光，建立投資人的信任與信心。但就整合而言，我們目前已完成所有主要整合。

Next question. Several of your DAT competitors, both Bitcoin and SOL DATs, have gone to zero or are trading at deep discounts to NAV or a thrown in the towel. At what point does DFDV consider acquiring distressed DATs and would that be SPS accretive relative to organic accumulation?

下一題。你們的幾個 DAT 競爭對手，不論是比特幣或 SOL 的 DAT，都已歸零或以相對於 NAV 的大幅折價交易，或是乾脆放棄了。DFDV 會在什麼情況下考慮收購陷入困境的 DAT？相較於有機累積，這樣做對 SPS 是否具有增益（accretive）？

I'll take that one. We get the M&A question a lot, and I obviously can't comment on any conversations that. We've had or are currently having on this front but I do want to give investors a what I call it a realistic framework for how we think about consolidation.

我來回答這題。我們常被問到併購（M&A）問題，而我顯然不能評論任何我們在這方面曾經或正在進行的對話；但我確實想給投資人一個我稱之為「務實框架」的方式，來說明我們如何看待產業整併。

Because I think expectations of the market may be a bit detached from reality so we really see two classes of DATs in the space today in the first group you have DATs that I would say are leaning into their identity as DATs think strategy Bitmine DFDV like a handful of others maybe that are actively trying to build the foundations to keep raising capital and keep growing their crypto per share.

因為我認為市場的預期可能有點脫離現實，所以我們確實看到目前這個領域有兩類 DAT。第一類是我會說正在強化其作為 DAT 身分的 DAT——想想 strategy、Bitmine、DFDV，以及可能還有少數其他——它們正積極打造基礎，持續募資並持續提高每股加密資產。

In the second group, there are DATs that are either, I'm going to say, abandoning the model or doing very little. The second group is quickly going to become irrelevant. It's also filled with the DATs that I'm going to say keep coming up as acquisition targets. But here's the thing that people miss about the second group. Those DATs are still sitting on a pile of assets, often yield-bearing.

第二類則是那些要嘛——我會說——正在放棄這個模式，要嘛就是幾乎沒在做事的 DAT。第二類很快就會變得無關緊要。而且其中也充斥著我會說經常被提及為收購標的的 DAT。但人們忽略了第二類的一點：那些 DAT 仍然坐擁一大堆資產，而且往往是能產生收益的。

They can stake the assets, sell off a staking yield, remain in a what I sort of call a zombie equilibrium state, collect a salary, do nothing, and they can more or less do this indefinitely. These teams actually have very little urgency to sell. They're not distressed in the ways that investors from the outside might assume. So all that means is that the practical math behind consolidation actually gets unattractive really fast, right?

他們可以把資產拿去質押、把質押收益賣掉，維持在一種我姑且稱之為「殭屍式均衡」的狀態，領薪水、什麼都不做，而且基本上可以無限期這樣下去。這些團隊其實幾乎沒有急迫性要賣。他們並不像外部投資人可能以為的那樣陷入困境。所以這一切的意思是，從實務的數學來看，整併背後的算盤很快就會變得不划算，對吧？

So consider management buyout expenses, asset management agreement arrangements that need to be canceled. Legal fees, banker fees, by the time you layer all this in, you'd actually be better off just buying the underlying asset at spot, right? From a pure crypto per share accretion perspective.

所以想想管理層收購（MBO）的費用、需要取消的資產管理協議安排。法律費、投行費，把這些一層層加上去之後，你其實還不如直接用現貨價格買底層資產，對吧？從純粹以每股加密資產增厚（accretion）的角度來看。

I guess the only scenario where M&A might make sense is one in which you, I'm going to say pay a slight premium to eliminate a competitor from the market, or maybe you're acquiring like genuinely differentiated talent, but I'll just say neither of those situations are common or cheap.

我想唯一一種併購（M&A）可能說得通的情境，是你——我會說——付一點溢價，把一個競爭對手從市場上消除，或者你是在收購真正具差異化的人才；但我只能說，這兩種情況既不常見也不便宜。

And neither of them really applies to this average zombie DAT that's trading at a discount to now. So all this to say, there will be some consolidation in this space, but it's, I think, just going to be slower, messier, and far less frequent than the market expects. And our preference is certainly for growing sold per share through our own execution and the things we can control rather than waiting around for an expensive acquisition.

而且這兩種情況其實都不適用於這種目前以折價交易的平均「殭屍」DAT。所以總結來說，這個領域會有一些整併，但我認為它只會比市場預期更慢、更混亂，而且發生頻率低得多。而我們的偏好，當然是透過自身的執行力，以及我們能掌控的事情，來提升每股 SOL 的成長，而不是坐等一筆昂貴的收購。

This one comes from Craig Hallam. I appreciated your sold-driven demand from Autonomous Agents paper. It would appear with 27% of [X402] transactions sold has great market share. Is that a practical share to expect as the market matures. Will this be a heavy seasonal transaction driver, for example, considering holiday shopping spend?

這題來自 Craig Hallam。我很欣賞你們那篇關於 Autonomous Agents 所帶動 SOL 需求的報告。看起來在 [X402] 交易中有 27% 是以 SOL 計價/支付，SOL 的市占率很高。隨著市場成熟，這會是一個可合理期待的占比嗎？這會不會是高度季節性的交易驅動因素，例如考量到假期購物支出？

I'll take that one, guys. Thanks, George. It's a great question, and unfortunately, I don't have any good answers for you at this time. For those who don't know what George is referencing, we put out a report on agentic AI. Specifically agentic finance and the applications for Solana.

這題我來回答，各位。謝謝你，George。這是個好問題，但很可惜，我目前沒有什麼好的答案。如果有人不知道 George 指的是什麼，我們發布了一份關於代理式 AI（agentic AI）的報告。特別是代理式金融（agentic finance）以及其在 Solana 上的應用。

And I don't know, I sort of view this as trying to forecast with any sort of precision what Amazon's business is going to look like in 30 years back in like the '90s, right? And that's just frankly where we think we're at with Agentic Commerce and Agentic Finance right now. There's really two big questions here.

我不知道，我有點把這看作是：試圖在 90 年代去精準預測 30 年後 Amazon 的業務會長什麼樣子，對吧？而坦白說，我們認為代理式商務（Agentic Commerce）與代理式金融（Agentic Finance）現在就處在那個階段。這裡其實有兩個大問題。

The first is, how much of Agentic Finance is going to move on-chain? And then the second question is, how much of the on-chain pie will Solana actually capture?

第一個是：代理式金融有多少會移到鏈上（on-chain）？第二個問題是：在鏈上的那塊餅裡，Solana 最終會拿下多少？

On the first, right now, as we forecasted, we've, expect about a third of it, we'll move on chain, but I don't know if you told me this ended up being 50% or 80% in the future, it just wouldn't surprise me because crypto rails for me at least go hand in hand with everything that a agentic finance represents.

先講第一個：就我們目前的預測，我們預期大約三分之一會上鏈；但如果你告訴我未來最後變成 50% 或 80%，我也不會意外，因為至少對我而言，加密的支付/結算軌道（crypto rails）與代理式金融所代表的一切是相輔相成的。

Just think high-speed, low-cost, permissionless rails that can process microtransactions, I mean, it's literally the perfect union. And the best part is, I think we've really seen the Solana ecosystem lean into this. Vibhu from the foundation was out at DAS just a few days ago, saying that thus far in 2026, Solana accounts for 65% of all agentic payments through the X402 protocol, for example.

想想看：高速、低成本、無需許可（permissionless）的軌道，能處理微交易——我的意思是，這根本是完美結合。而最棒的是，我認為我們確實看到 Solana 生態系在這方面全力投入。基金會的 Vibhu 幾天前在 DAS 上提到，例如截至 2026 年目前為止，透過 X402 協議的所有代理式支付中，Solana 佔了 65%。

So the early signs are pretty bullish for Solana, and it wouldn't shock me if Solana maintained this dominant market share because of, I'm going to say, all the characteristics that make it the natural choice for. Agentic payments. It's fast, it's cheap, it's capable of handling incredible throughput.

所以早期跡象對 Solana 相當偏多（bullish），而且如果 Solana 因為——我會說——所有讓它成為自然選擇的特性而維持這種主導市占，我也不會驚訝。用於代理式支付。它快、它便宜、它能處理驚人的吞吐量。

So again, shameless plug for those who have not seen our blog post on this or our model on this, but you can check it out on our blog or go to defiedevcorp.com/solmodel where you can model sole demand based on agent count, actually and of course, we welcome feedback on the model.

所以再次不害臊地宣傳一下：如果你還沒看過我們關於這個主題的部落格文章或模型，你可以到我們的部落格查看，或前往 defiedevcorp.com/solmodel，在那裡你可以根據代理（agent）數量來建模 SOL 的需求；當然，我們也歡迎對模型提出回饋。

And we have arrived at our final question for the call. What are the key items you would like to see in the final Clarity Act? Joseph, you want to close us out on that one?

我們也來到本次電話會議的最後一題。你希望在最終版《Clarity Act》中看到哪些關鍵項目？Joseph，你要用這題幫我們做個收尾嗎？

Nothing. We oppose the Clarity Act.

沒有。我們反對《Clarity Act》。

And there you heard it, folks. All right. Thank you, Joseph, John and Parker for your thoughtful responses. We thank all the listeners for tuning in to our earnings call. As always, please don't hesitate to reach out to us if you have any questions in service of SOL Per Share Growth. We'll see you all again next quarter.

各位，你們都聽到了。好。感謝 Joseph、John 和 Parker 提供深思熟慮的回覆。也感謝所有聽眾收聽我們的法說會。一如既往，若你有任何問題，為了推動每股 SOL 成長（SOL Per Share Growth），請隨時與我們聯繫。我們下個季度再見。