達美航空 (DAL) 2026 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the Delta Air Lines September quarter 2026 financial results conference call. My name is Matthew, and I will be your coordinator. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, today's call is being recorded. (Operator Instructions)

各位早安，歡迎參加達美航空（Delta Air Lines）2026 年 9 月季度財務業績電話會議。我叫 Matthew，將擔任本次會議的協調人。（接線員指示）提醒各位，今天的電話會議將被錄音。（接線員指示）

I would now like to turn the conference over to Julie Stewart, Vice President of Investor Relations and Corporate Development. Please go ahead.

現在我想把會議交給投資人關係與企業發展副總裁 Julie Stewart。請開始。

Thank you, Matthew. Good morning, everyone, and thanks for joining us for our September quarter 2026 earnings call. Joining us from Atlanta today are our CEO, Ed Bastian; our Chief Operating Officer, Dan Janki; our Chief Commercial Officer, Joe Esposito; and our Chief Financial Officer, Erik Snell. Ed will open the call with an overview of Delta's performance and strategy, Dan will cover the operations, Joe will provide an update on the revenue environment, and Erik will discuss costs and our balance sheet.

謝謝你，Matthew。各位早安，感謝各位參加我們 2026 年 9 月季度的財報電話會議。今天在亞特蘭大與會的有：我們的執行長 Ed Bastian；營運長 Dan Janki；商務長 Joe Esposito；以及財務長 Erik Snell。Ed 將以達美的表現與策略概述開場，Dan 將說明營運狀況，Joe 將更新營收環境，Erik 則將討論成本與資產負債表。

After the prepared remarks, we'll take analyst questions. We ask you please limit yourself to one question and a brief follow-up so we can get to as many of you as possible. Today's discussion contains forward-looking statements that represent our beliefs or expectations about future events. All forward-looking statements involve risks and uncertainties that could cause the actual results to differ materially from the forward-looking statements.

在預先準備的發言之後，我們將開放分析師提問。為了讓我們能盡可能回答更多人的問題，請各位每次僅限一個問題並簡短追問一次。今天的討論包含前瞻性陳述，代表我們對未來事件的信念或預期。所有前瞻性陳述均涉及風險與不確定性，可能導致實際結果與前瞻性陳述存在重大差異。

Some of the factors that may cause such differences are described in Delta's SEC filings. We'll also discuss non-GAAP financial measures, and all results exclude special items unless otherwise noted. You can find a reconciliation of our non-GAAP measures on the Investor Relations page at ir.delta.com.

可能造成此類差異的部分因素已在達美向美國證券交易委員會（SEC）提交的文件中說明。我們也將討論非 GAAP 財務衡量指標，除非另有說明，所有結果均排除特殊項目。您可在 ir.delta.com 的投資人關係頁面找到非 GAAP 指標的調節表。

And with that, I'll turn the call over to Ed.

接下來，我把電話會議交給 Ed。

Thank you, Julie. Good morning, everyone. We appreciate you joining us today. Our results demonstrate the structural durability that we have built and the strategic decisions that we have made over many years to reduce earnings volatility and enable us to navigate today's high fuel costs. In the September quarter, revenue grew 16%, and we delivered pretax profits of $1.5 billion, consistent with last year, while absorbing $1.6 billion of higher fuel costs.

謝謝你，Julie。各位早安。感謝各位今天加入我們。我們的業績展現了我們多年來打造的結構性韌性，以及我們為降低獲利波動、並使我們能在當前高燃油成本下仍可穩健應對而做出的策略性決策。在 9 月季度，營收成長 16%，我們在吸收額外 16 億美元燃油成本增加的同時，仍交出 15 億美元的稅前獲利，與去年一致。

Earnings were $1.72 per share on an operating margin of 9.4%. Our earnings are continuing to translate into strong cash generation and attractive returns for our shareholders. Year-to-date, we have generated $1.9 billion of free cash, and our return on invested capital is 11%, well above our cost of capital. These results reflect disciplined capital allocation and the durability of our business model.

每股盈餘為 1.72 美元，營業利益率為 9.4%。我們的獲利持續轉化為強勁的現金創造能力，並為股東帶來具吸引力的報酬。年初至今，我們已產生 19 億美元的自由現金流，投入資本報酬率（ROIC）為 11%，明顯高於我們的資本成本。這些成果反映了嚴謹的資本配置紀律，以及我們商業模式的耐久性。

Operationally, Delta delivered another quarter of industry-leading performance across key metrics, including on-time and customer satisfaction. We continue to strengthen the resilience of our operation with good progress on weather recovery despite a challenging operating environment this summer. We expect to further improve recovery performance through the end of the year and into 2027.

在營運方面，達美在準點率與客戶滿意度等關鍵指標上，再度交出業界領先的季度表現。儘管今年夏季營運環境充滿挑戰，我們在天候復原方面仍取得良好進展，持續強化營運韌性。我們預期在今年年底前以及進入 2027 年後，復原表現將進一步改善。

I want to thank the 100,000 members of the Delta team. They remain our greatest strength and deservedly are the most awarded aviation professionals in the world. Most recently, their efforts were recognized by the Skytrax World Airline Awards, where customers named Delta the Best Airline Staff in North America for the fifth consecutive year.

我想感謝達美團隊的 10 萬名成員。他們始終是我們最大的力量，也當之無愧是全球獲獎最多的航空專業團隊。最近，他們的努力獲得 Skytrax 世界航空獎肯定，顧客連續第五年將達美評為北美最佳航空公司員工。

And consistent with our philosophy of sharing our success, we've now accrued $900 million towards next year's employee profit sharing payout. Looking at the current environment, demand remains strong, supported by a secular shift in consumer behavior. The top 40% of US households, which make up the majority of Delta's customer base, are nearly $40 trillion wealthier than they were just a few years ago and increasingly prioritizing experiences, including travel.

並且秉持我們分享成功的理念，我們目前已為明年員工分紅發放累計提列 9 億美元。就當前環境而言，在消費者行為出現結構性轉變的支撐下，需求仍然強勁。美國前 40% 家戶（構成達美客群的多數）相較於幾年前，財富增加了近 40 兆美元，並日益優先重視體驗型消費，包括旅行。

At the same time, air travel remains one of the best values in the consumer economy with airfares still well below cumulative inflation over the last several years. That demand is evident across leisure and business travel and across all cabins. Premium growth remains robust and Main Cabin trends are continuing to improve, reflecting our measured approach to growth and broader industry actions to reduce unprofitable capacity.

同時，航空旅行仍是消費經濟中最具價值的選擇之一，機票價格仍遠低於過去數年累積的通膨幅度。這股需求在休閒與商務旅行、以及所有艙等中都十分明顯。高端艙等成長依然強勁，主艙等（Main Cabin）趨勢也持續改善，反映我們審慎的成長策略，以及整體產業為降低虧損運能所採取的更廣泛行動。

This year's fuel spike has accelerated change across the industry. Resilient demand and greater focus on profitability are enabling the industry to recover higher fuel costs more quickly. Even when fuel prices eventually moderate and they will, we believe our underlying revenue strength is sustainable, giving strong preference for the Delta brand and the diversity of our high-value revenue streams.

今年燃油價格飆升加速了整個產業的變化。具韌性的需求與對獲利能力更高的重視，使產業能更快回收較高的燃油成本。即使燃油價格最終回落——而且確實會回落——我們仍相信，我們的基本營收實力具有可持續性，因為市場對達美品牌有強烈偏好，且我們擁有多元的高價值營收來源。

Regardless of the next move in fuel prices, the forces reshaping the US airline industry will continue with many carriers struggling to earn their cost of capital well before the run-up in fuel. Against this backdrop, Delta is operating from a position of strength. In the December quarter, we expect revenue momentum to continue and nonfuel cost performance to improve, supporting pretax profits of $1.2 billion, even with fuel prices expected to double over last year.

不論燃油價格下一步如何變動，重塑美國航空業的力量仍將持續；在燃油上漲之前，許多航空公司就已難以賺取其資本成本。在此背景下，達美正以強勢姿態營運。在 12 月季度，我們預期營收動能將延續，且非燃油成本表現將改善；即便預期燃油價格將較去年翻倍，我們仍可支撐 12 億美元的稅前獲利。

For the full year, we expect to deliver pretax profits of roughly $4.5 billion, fairly close to last year's profitability, even with our fuel bill expected to increase by 60% or $6 billion. That's a picture of structural durability you have not seen in prior cycles or fuel spikes within this industry. We also expect to generate $2.5 billion of free cash flow, funding more than $2 billion of debt reduction and bringing our three-year cumulative free cash generation to over $10 billion.

就全年而言，我們預期稅前獲利約 45 億美元，儘管預期燃油帳單將增加 60% 或 60 億美元，仍與去年的獲利水準相當接近。這正是你在本產業過往循環或燃油飆升期間未曾見過的結構性韌性。我們也預期將產生 25 億美元自由現金流，用以支應超過 20 億美元的減債，並使我們三年累計自由現金創造超過 100 億美元。

These results are expected to lead the industry by a good margin. The consistent strength of our financial performance allows us to keep investing in our people, products and partnerships, compounding Delta's differentiation and extending our lead. Our growing loyalty ecosystem is one of the most important drivers of our structural durability. The Delta American Express partnership continues to deliver strong momentum, and we now expect remuneration of more than $9 billion this year, on the way to $10 billion.

這些成果預期將以相當大的幅度領先同業。我們財務表現的持續強勁，使我們得以持續投資於員工、產品與合作夥伴，進一步累積達美的差異化優勢並擴大領先。我們不斷成長的忠誠度生態系，是推動結構性韌性最重要的驅動因素之一。達美與美國運通（American Express）的合作夥伴關係持續展現強勁動能，我們目前預期今年的報酬金額將超過 90 億美元，並正邁向 100 億美元。

The strength of the co-brand portfolio was recently reflected in J.D. Power's customer satisfaction survey last week of all airline co-brand cards, where the Delta American Express SkyMiles Card swept the top three positions with our Reserve Card ranking number one. Hats off to our collective teams, what a remarkable achievement.

聯名卡產品組合的實力，近期也反映在上週 J.D. Power 對所有航空公司聯名卡所做的客戶滿意度調查中：達美美國運通 SkyMiles 卡包辦前三名，其中我們的 Reserve 卡名列第一。向我們所有團隊致敬，這是非常了不起的成就。

We are also bringing more value to our customers through partnerships with leading brands. During the quarter, we announced a new strategic relationship with Hyatt, bringing together two leading premium brands. Customer response has been strong ahead of the launch later this year. At the same time, we're investing to extend the reach of the Delta brand through the global network.

我們也透過與領先品牌的合作夥伴關係，為客戶帶來更多價值。本季度期間，我們宣布與 Hyatt 建立新的策略合作關係，結合兩大領先的高端品牌。在今年稍晚正式推出之前，客戶反應已相當熱烈。同時，我們也持續投資，透過全球航網擴大達美品牌的觸及範圍。

We recently announced new service to the Philippines and expanded service to Tokyo, Paris, Athens, and Venice from key US gateways. Our investments are elevating the customer experience throughout the travel journey with connectivity an important point of differentiation. Delta pioneered fast free Wi-Fi on a global scale four years ago and established it as the standard that the industry has been required to adopt.

我們近期宣布新增飛往菲律賓的航線，並自美國主要樞紐擴增前往東京、巴黎、雅典與威尼斯的航班服務。我們的投資正於旅程各環節提升客戶體驗，其中連線能力是重要的差異化要素。達美在四年前率先於全球規模推出快速且免費的 Wi‑Fi，並將其建立為業界必須採用的標準。

Today, fast free Wi-Fi is available across virtually our entire fleet, far more than any other airline currently offers. We continue to work closely with Viasat and Hughes on meaningful enhancements to service, which we will see this quarter and are excited to launch Amazon Leo beginning in 2028. In closing, the durability that we've built is differentiated and difficult to replicate.

如今，幾乎我們整個機隊都可使用快速且免費的 Wi‑Fi，遠超過目前任何其他航空公司所提供的覆蓋範圍。我們持續與 Viasat 與 Hughes 緊密合作，推動具實質意義的服務升級，我們將在本季看到成果，並且很期待自 2028 年起推出 Amazon Leo。最後，我們所建立的韌性具差異化，且難以複製。

We are delivering industry-leading returns today and confident in our ability to deliver strong growth in earnings and cash flow in the coming year. Now I'll turn it over to Joe to cover our commercial performance and outlook.

我們目前正交付業界領先的報酬，並對於在來年實現獲利與現金流的強勁成長充滿信心。接下來我把時間交給 Joe，請他說明我們的商務表現與展望。

Thank you, Ed. September quarter results demonstrated sustained demand strength, clear preference for the Delta brand and the benefits of our measured approach to capacity. Revenue grew $2.4 billion, up approximately 16% over prior year on flat capacity. Total unit revenue growth of 15.4% accelerated 3 points from the June quarter with gains in domestic and international.

謝謝你，Ed。9 月季度的結果顯示需求強勁且持續，市場對達美品牌有明確偏好，也展現了我們在運能上採取審慎策略所帶來的效益。在運能持平的情況下，營收增加 24 億美元，較去年同期成長約 16%。總單位營收成長 15.4%，較 6 月季度加速 3 個百分點，國內與國際皆有成長。

A key highlight was Main Cabin, where unit revenue grew high teens, marking the third consecutive quarter of improvement. Domestic unit revenue grew 16%, driven by healthy yield growth on load factors that were 1 point higher than last year as we closely align our capacity growth with demand. International unit revenue grew 12%, led by growth of 22% in Latin.

其中一項關鍵亮點是主艙（Main Cabin），其單位營收成長達十幾個百分點的高段，為連續第三個季度改善。國內單位營收成長 16%，主要受惠於在我們將運能成長與需求緊密對齊之下，載客率較去年高 1 個百分點，帶動票價收益率（yield）健康成長。國際單位營收成長 12%，其中以拉丁美洲成長 22% 領先。

Transatlantic unit revenue growth accelerated 4 points sequentially to 11%. Corporate sales were strong across all sectors, cabins, hubs and entities with each growing double digits over last year. The week after Labor Day was the highest corporate sales week in our history, underscoring the strength of business travel. Our diversified high-margin revenue streams remain a defining strength of Delta, enhancing the quality and durability of our earnings.

跨大西洋單位營收成長率較前一季加速 4 個百分點至 11%。企業銷售在所有產業、艙等、樞紐與法人實體皆表現強勁，各項均較去年呈現雙位數成長。勞動節後一週創下我們史上最高的企業銷售週，凸顯商務旅行的強勁動能。我們多元且高毛利的營收來源仍是達美的核心優勢，提升了獲利品質與耐久性。

Diverse revenue represented 61% of total revenue with premium and loyalty each growing nearly 20% over prior year. Cargo and MRO revenue both grew nearly 30%. Our loyalty ecosystem is growing in scale and value. SkyMiles membership is growing faster than capacity and members are engaging more with Delta in the air and beyond the flight.

多元營收占總營收的 61%，其中高端產品與忠誠度業務各自較去年成長近 20%。貨運與 MRO（維修、修理與大修）營收皆成長近 30%。我們的忠誠度生態系在規模與價值上持續成長。SkyMiles 會員數成長速度快於運能，且會員在機上與航班以外與達美的互動更為頻繁。

That deeper engagement is driving growth across brand partnerships such as Uber and Starbucks in addition to travel products and our industry-leading co-brand card portfolio. Card acquisitions and spend both grew double digits, keeping us on track for a fifth consecutive year of 1 million new card acquisitions and double-digit growth in Amex remuneration this year.

更深度的互動正帶動品牌合作夥伴（如 Uber 與 Starbucks）的成長，同時也推動旅遊產品與我們業界領先的聯名信用卡產品組合。新卡獲客與刷卡金額皆呈雙位數成長，使我們有望連續第五年達成新增 100 萬張新卡，並在今年實現美國運通（Amex）酬金的雙位數成長。

Now turning to outlook. Demand remains strong and broad-based as we enter the final quarter of the year. That strength is reflected in forward cash sales, which grew nearly 20% during the September quarter, the highest quarterly growth since 2022. These trends support our outlook for December quarter revenue growth of approximately 20% year-over-year on roughly 3% capacity growth.

接著談展望。在進入年度最後一季之際，需求仍然強勁且基礎廣泛。這股強勢反映在預收現金銷售（forward cash sales）上，9 月季度成長近 20%，為 2022 年以來最高的季度成長。這些趨勢支持我們對 12 月季度的展望：在運能約成長 3% 的情況下，營收年增約 20%。

With seat growth below 2%, including a year-over-year reduction in Main Cabin seats, our capacity positioning supports another sequential improvement in unit revenue growth as we continue to cover higher costs. This approach keeps our capacity decisions focused on margins, returns and cash generation. Our results and outlook reflect an integrated commercial strategy that is extending our leadership.

在座位數成長低於 2%（其中包含主艙座位數較去年同期減少）的情況下，我們的運能配置有助於單位營收成長再度較前一季改善，並持續覆蓋較高的成本。此一作法使我們的運能決策聚焦於毛利、報酬與現金創造。我們的業績與展望反映出一套整合式商務策略，正持續擴大我們的領先地位。

Investments in our fleet, global network, customer experience, and loyalty ecosystems are strengthening our revenue premium, deepening engagement and creating long-term value. Los Angeles is a clear example of our integrated strategy driving profitable growth. Over several years, we have built a leading position through investments across the airport, network and customer experience.

我們在機隊、全球航網、客戶體驗與忠誠度生態系的投資，正在強化我們的營收溢價、加深互動並創造長期價值。洛杉磯就是我們整合策略推動獲利成長的明確例證。多年來，我們透過在機場、航網與客戶體驗的投資，建立了領先地位。

We're also expanding our global reach from Los Angeles, adding service to the South Pacific, Hong Kong, and Manila, while enhancing connectivity across key US markets. This has been enabled by generational airport investments at LA to create a modern connected complex with additional gate capacity and seamless access to the international terminal.

我們也正從洛杉磯擴大全球觸及，新增飛往南太平洋、香港與馬尼拉的航班，同時強化美國主要市場間的連結性。這得益於洛杉磯機場世代級的投資，打造現代化的連通式航廈群，增加登機門容量，並可無縫通往國際航廈。

We now have the most premium ground experience with a dedicated curb to lounge path for Delta One customers. Together with our leading position at LA, two Delta One Lounges and our award-winning Sky Club, these investments are strengthening customer preference in this high-value market and further opportunity ahead of the LA28 Olympics.

我們如今提供最頂級的地面體驗，為 Delta One 旅客設置從專屬下車區直達貴賓室的動線。結合我們在洛杉磯的領先地位、兩間 Delta One 貴賓室以及屢獲獎項的 Sky Club，這些投資正強化客戶在此高價值市場的偏好，並在 LA28 奧運前帶來更多機會。

Now I'll hand it to Dan to discuss our operational results.

接下來我把時間交給 Dan，請他說明我們的營運成果。

Thank you, Joe. Running a great operation is foundational to Delta's brand, and I want to thank the Delta team for the outstanding service they provide our customers every day. With a culture of continuous improvement and our investment in data and technology, our people keep raising the bar, strengthening reliability and driving efficiency while delivering better outcomes for our customers.

謝謝你，Joe。卓越的營運是達美品牌的基石，我也要感謝達美團隊每天為客戶提供的傑出服務。在持續改善的文化，以及我們對數據與科技的投資之下，我們的同仁不斷提高標準，強化可靠性並提升效率，同時為客戶帶來更好的成果。

Over the summer, we widened our industry leadership and on-time performance and delivered record baggage results and better disruption recovery. Those results were meaningfully given -- meaningfully important given persistent weather and ATC delays that our people navigated during the quarter, more than twice the number of disruption days compared to historical averages.

在夏季期間，我們擴大了在準點率方面的業界領先優勢，並創下行李處理的紀錄表現，以及更佳的營運中斷復原能力。在本季度持續的天候與航管（ATC）延誤之下，這些成果格外重要；我們的同仁在季度內應對的中斷天數，較歷史平均高出兩倍以上。

These targeted investments are strengthening our resilience and recovery. In September, we delivered our best mainline completion factor month of the year, and we expect further progress through the fourth-quarter and into 2027. We are scaling new technology and process improvements across the operation to strengthen reliability, accelerate recovery and enhance the customer experience.

這些有針對性的投資正強化我們的韌性與復原能力。9 月我們交出今年最佳的主線航班完成率（mainline completion factor）月份表現，並預期在第四季乃至 2027 年持續進步。我們正把新技術與流程改善擴大到整體營運，以提升可靠性、加速復原並改善客戶體驗。

Atlanta is an important example where these investments are driving record baggage performance, improving connection and making our largest, most profitable hub even more reliable and efficient. The Delta people remain our most important differentiator, new tools, technology, giving them more time to do what they do best, care for our customers.

亞特蘭大是一個重要例子：這些投資正帶動行李表現創新高、改善轉機銜接，並讓我們最大且最賺錢的樞紐更可靠、更有效率。達美的同仁仍是我們最重要的差異化優勢；新的工具與科技讓他們有更多時間做他們最擅長的事——照顧我們的客戶。

We are pairing these technology investments with new training that equip our people to deliver even more consistent and personalized service. One example is new hospitality certification program across our network of 60 lounges and clubs, the only program of its kind offered by a US carrier. Today, operational reliability, people and technology deliver better outcomes for our customers and support Delta's leadership in Net Promoter Score.

我們也將這些科技投資與新的訓練相結合，使同仁能提供更一致且更個人化的服務。其中一個例子是我們在全網 60 間貴賓室與俱樂部推行新的款待（hospitality）認證計畫，這是美國航空公司中唯一同類型的方案。如今，營運可靠性、人員與科技為客戶帶來更好的成果，並支撐達美在淨推薦值（Net Promoter Score, NPS）上的領先地位。

Domestic NPS continues to strengthen, driven by record interaction scores with our people, expanding digital capability and more proactive customer communication, particularly during disruptions. During the quarter, we further expanded self-service options in the Fly Delta app and completed the rollout of Delta Concierge to all SkyMiles members.

國內 NPS 持續提升，主要受惠於同仁互動評分創新高、數位能力擴展，以及更主動的客戶溝通，尤其是在發生中斷時。本季度，我們進一步擴大 Fly Delta App 的自助服務選項，並完成將 Delta Concierge 推廣至所有 SkyMiles 會員。

Customer adoption is growing and new capabilities are scaling rapidly. Our operational expertise also creates value beyond the core airline. I'm proud of the TechOps team for delivering $1 billion of maintenance, repair and overhaul revenue year-to-date, an increase of nearly 60% over last year, while expanding margins and growing our customer base. And over the next several years, we are positioned more to than double MRO revenue while expanding margins.

客戶採用率持續上升，新功能也在快速擴展。我們的營運專業也在核心航空業務之外創造價值。我為 TechOps 團隊感到自豪：今年迄今已交付 10 億美元的維修、修理與大修（MRO）營收，較去年增加近 60%，同時擴大毛利並拓展客戶基礎。在未來幾年，我們具備將 MRO 營收提高到兩倍以上、同時擴大毛利的有利位置。

Now I'd like to turn it over to Erik to cover our financial performance.

接下來我想把時間交給 Erik，請他說明我們的財務表現。

Thank you, Dan. I want to start by recognizing the Delta people for their commitment to our customers through a busy summer travel season. In the September quarter, we delivered earnings of $1.72 per share and an operating margin of 9.4%. Pretax profit of $1.5 billion was in line with last year, even with a $1.6 billion increase in fuel expense that was more than $500 million higher than guidance.

謝謝你，Dan。我想先肯定達美同仁在繁忙的夏季旅遊旺季中，對客戶的投入與承諾。在 9 月季度，我們交出每股盈餘 1.72 美元，以及 9.4% 的營業利益率。稅前獲利 15 億美元與去年持平，儘管燃油費用增加 16 億美元，且比指引高出逾 5 億美元。

For the quarter, our fuel price averaged $3.61 per gallon, including a refinery benefit of $0.13. With our refinery now fully online following the temporary outage discussed on our July call, we expect a greater benefit in the December quarter at roughly three times the September quarter level. Nonfuel unit costs increased 7.3% over the prior year on flat capacity.

本季我們的燃油價格平均為每加侖3.61美元，其中包含每加侖0.13美元的煉油廠效益。隨著我們的煉油廠在7月電話會議所提及的短暫停機後現已全面恢復運轉，我們預期12月季度的效益將更高，約為9月季度水準的三倍。在運能持平的情況下，非燃油單位成本較去年增加7.3%。

The primary drivers were higher crew and revenue-related costs on capacity growth several points below our original plan and nearly 1 point of impact from the disruptions that Dan spoke about. We generated free cash flow of $460 million during the quarter, bringing the year-to-date total to $1.9 billion. Our financial performance allows us to continue investing while making meaningful progress on debt reduction.

主要驅動因素是在運能成長較原先計畫低數個百分點的情況下，機組人員與收入相關成本上升，以及Dan所提到的擾動帶來近1個百分點的影響。本季我們產生4.60億美元自由現金流，使年初至今累計達19億美元。我們的財務表現使我們得以持續投資，同時在減債方面取得實質進展。

We ended the quarter with adjusted net debt of $13 billion and plan to pay down more than $2 billion of debt this year, positioning us to end the year with gross leverage of 2.2 times. Delta's balance sheet is a strategic asset. We are investment grade at all three credit rating agencies and recently received a Fitch upgrade to BBB flat.

本季結束時，我們的調整後淨負債為130億美元，並計畫今年償還超過20億美元的債務，使我們有望在年底將總槓桿降至2.2倍。達美的資產負債表是一項策略性資產。我們在三家信用評等機構皆為投資等級，且近期獲惠譽（Fitch）調升至BBB平級。

We also ended the quarter with a $3 billion pension surplus and a substantial and growing base of unencumbered assets. Turning to our outlook. Based on the forward curve as of October 2, our all-in fuel price for the fourth-quarter is projected to be $4.25 per gallon, including a refinery benefit of approximately $0.40 per gallon. With slightly higher capacity and continued operational efficiencies, we expect nonfuel unit cost growth to improve 1 to 2 points sequentially.

本季結束時，我們亦有30億美元的退休金盈餘，以及可觀且持續成長的未設抵押資產基礎。接著談談我們的展望。根據10月2日的遠期曲線，我們預估第四季的全包燃油價格為每加侖4.25美元，其中包含約每加侖0.40美元的煉油廠效益。在運能略為提高且營運效率持續改善下，我們預期非燃油單位成本成長將較前一季改善1至2個百分點。

Looking to next year, we remain on track for low single-digit unit cost growth as capacity normalizes, operational improvements continue and we lap higher costs in our baseline. Combined with our revenue outlook, we expect fourth-quarter earnings of $1.15 to $1.65 per share and an operating margin of 7% to 9%. For the full year, we now expect earnings of $5.10 to $5.60 per share with free cash flow of approximately $2.5 billion. Our outlook includes a refinery benefit of more than $700 million, underscoring its unique value.

展望明年，隨著運能正常化、營運改善持續，以及基期中較高成本逐步消化，我們仍按計畫維持低個位數的單位成本成長。結合我們的營收展望，我們預期第四季每股盈餘為1.15至1.65美元，營業利益率為7%至9%。就全年而言，我們目前預期每股盈餘為5.10至5.60美元，自由現金流約25億美元。我們的展望包含超過7億美元的煉油廠效益，凸顯其獨特價值。

Delivering this level of performance despite a roughly $6 billion increase in fuel expenses this year reflects the power of Delta's strategic advantages and demonstrates financial durability that is meaningfully stronger than in prior cycles and differentiated from the industry. Looking ahead, our focus remains on profitable growth and achieving our long-term financial targets.

在今年燃油費用約增加60億美元的情況下仍能達成此等表現，反映出達美策略優勢的力量，並展現出相較以往景氣循環顯著更強、且與同業有別的財務韌性。展望未來，我們的重點仍是獲利性成長並達成長期財務目標。

High-value revenue growth, fleet renewal and a more efficient cost structure provide a clear path to expanding both margins and returns to the mid-teens. Our capital allocation priorities remain unchanged: reinvest in high-return opportunities and continue strengthening the balance sheet. As we move toward our long-term gross leverage target of one times, we remain committed to increasing returns to shareholders.

高價值營收成長、機隊汰舊換新，以及更有效率的成本結構，為我們將利潤率與報酬率擴大至十位數中段提供清晰路徑。我們的資本配置優先順序維持不變：再投資於高報酬機會，並持續強化資產負債表。在邁向長期總槓桿1倍的目標過程中，我們仍致力於提高股東報酬。

Now I'll turn it back to Julie for analyst Q&A.

現在我把時間交回Julie，進行分析師問答。

Thank you, Erik. Matthew, can you please allow for analysts to now queue up questions.

謝謝你，Erik。Matthew，請讓分析師現在開始排隊提問。

(Operator Instructions) Andrew Didora, Bank of America.

（接線員指示）美國銀行（Bank of America）的Andrew Didora。

Erik, I guess just on fourth-quarter CASM, we were modeling some more sequential improvement than you guided to just given the IROP issues this summer. I know where -- I know capacity is not where you want it to be, and you've been investing back in the operation. But can you maybe just help us quantify why CASM-Ex just kind of continues to deviate from that low-single-digit target as we end the year here?

Erik，關於第四季CASM，我們原本預期你們給出的指引會有更明顯的季比改善，主要是考量今年夏天IROP的問題。我知道——我知道運能還沒達到你們希望的水準，而且你們一直在回頭投資營運。但你能否協助我們量化一下，為什麼在年底時CASM-Ex仍持續偏離低個位數的目標？

Yes. There are three buckets of investment versus low-single digit: number one is operational investments and improvements that we're making; number two is capacity discipline; and number three is we're seeing higher revenue-related costs. And on our operational investments and capacity discipline, these have been deliberate choices and the right decisions.

好的。相較於低個位數目標，有三個投資/差異的面向：第一是我們正在進行的營運投資與改善；第二是運能紀律；第三是我們看到較高的收入相關成本。而在營運投資與運能紀律方面，這些都是我們刻意做出的選擇，也是正確的決策。

We're improving reliability and supporting revenue quality. And the third is just a function of stronger revenue that Joe and team are delivering. We're managing the business for profitable growth and returns. And as capacity normalizes and we continue to see the improvements in our operational reliability, specifically controllable completion factor, we have a path back to low-single-digit cost growth.

我們正在提升可靠性並支撐營收品質。第三點則純粹是Joe和團隊帶來更強勁營收所致。我們以獲利性成長與報酬來經營業務。隨著運能正常化，且我們持續看到營運可靠性（特別是可控完成率）的改善，我們有一條回到低個位數成本成長的路徑。

I guess on that, just in terms of 2027 on that low-single-digit cost growth. But if we're in an environment where maybe fuel stays higher for longer and maybe capacity takes longer to normalize, how should we think about capacity in that type of -- I'm sorry, how should we think about CASM in that type of environment?

我想就此追問一下，關於到2027年維持低個位數成本成長。但如果我們處在一個燃油可能長期維持高檔、而運能正常化可能需要更久的環境中，我們應該如何看待那種情況下的——抱歉，我是說，我們應該如何看待那種環境下的CASM？

Well, we'll continue to be disciplined on capacity, and we're going to manage the business for margin. So we'll take out costs that we can if capacity wanes, but we'll be focused on continuing to elevate returns.

我們會持續在運能上保持紀律，並以利潤率為核心來管理業務。因此若運能走弱，我們會盡可能移除可移除的成本，但我們會專注於持續提升報酬。

Savi Syth, Raymond James.

Raymond James的Savi Syth。

Maybe the acceleration in the year-over-year revenue and RASM is quite impressive here based on the guide and especially kind of given that you have some tougher comps and the industry capacity stepping up. Could you talk a little bit about what's driving that strength and your confidence around that outlook?

依據你們的指引，年對年營收與RASM的加速相當令人印象深刻，尤其是在比較基期更具挑戰、且產業運能正在上升的情況下。你能否談談是什麼在驅動這股強勁表現，以及你們對此展望的信心來源？

Thanks for the question. Yes, when you look at where we are in closing the third-quarter, we saw a very strong demand from our customer base. When you look at the fourth-quarter on the sequential improvement and 20% revenue growth, we're already greater than 60% booked for the quarter. Our demand in premium products continues to be high teens, and that's leading us also to our corporate -- pulling our corporate travelers.

謝謝你的問題。是的，當你看我們第三季收官時，我們從客戶群看到非常強勁的需求。再看第四季的季比改善與20%的營收成長，我們目前該季度的訂位已超過60%。我們在高端產品的需求持續維持在十位數中段的成長，這也帶動我們的企業——吸引我們的企業旅客回流。

We see no cracks in that demand for the fourth-quarter. And the economy is really strong. So we're set up for a really strong fourth-quarter. And I think the improvement in unit revenues and revenue is well within our reach.

我們沒有看到第四季需求出現任何裂痕。而且整體經濟非常強勁。因此我們已為非常強勁的第四季做好準備。我認為單位營收與總營收的改善完全在我們可達成的範圍內。

That's helpful. And Joe, if I might ask on the loyalty program. That has been really strong loyalty revenue within that revenue guide. It's been stronger than past years and stronger than some of your peers. Curious what's driving that and sustainability of that momentum into 2027?

這很有幫助。另外Joe，如果可以的話我想問一下忠誠計畫。在你們的營收指引中，忠誠收入一直非常強勁。它比過去幾年更強，也比你們的一些同業更強。想了解是什麼在驅動這點，以及這股動能延續到2027年的可持續性如何？

Yes. We've got fares that have gone up. You've got greater engagement from our customers. I mean you look at how they engage through not only our own SkyMile program, but the Amex and partnerships and products, you're really seeing a very strong ecosystem of spend in all categories. And so I think it's -- and especially in premium products from our loyalty program, our capacity in premium was up 6% to 7% and our load factors actually were up almost 2 points where you've got really strong engagement in premium cabins and products.

是的。我們的票價上升了。客戶的參與度也更高。你看他們的互動方式，不僅透過我們自有的SkyMile計畫，還包括Amex以及各項合作夥伴與產品，你會看到在所有類別中都形成非常強的消費生態系。因此我認為——尤其是在我們忠誠計畫的高端產品方面，我們的高端運能增加了6%到7%，而載客率實際上也提高了將近2個百分點，顯示高端艙等與產品的參與度非常強勁。

Mike Linenberg, Deutsche Bank.

Mike Linenberg，德意志銀行。

I -- just one question here, kind of multipart to Joe. Just on competitive capacity, what are you seeing in the domestic market? And as energy prices rise, do you anticipate further cuts by your competitors? And if you can sort of touch on international because I think one of the things we're watching closely are that hedge books are rolling off from many of your international competitors and likely to see changes on the capacity front there. So overall, just kind of what you're seeing capacity, both domestic and international from competition?

我——這裡只有一個問題，算是針對 Joe 的多段式問題。就競爭性運能而言，你在國內市場看到什麼情況？另外，隨著能源價格上升，你是否預期競爭對手會進一步削減運能？如果可以也請談談國際市場，因為我們密切關注的一點是，你們許多國際競爭對手的避險部位正在到期退出，運能面可能因此出現變化。所以整體而言，你看到的運能狀況如何——無論是國內還是國際、來自競爭對手的？

Yes. Thanks. When you look at the domestic system, quite a bit of capacity has come out as carriers have worked to improve their own margins and operations. So -- and in our hubs, competitive capacity is actually positioned down. And we're not seeing any impact from capacity in other airlines' hubs across the domestic network.

是的。謝謝。就國內系統來看，隨著各家航空公司努力改善自身利潤率與營運，相當多的運能已經退出市場。因此——在我們的樞紐市場，競爭性運能實際上是下降的。而且在國內網路中，我們也沒有看到其他航空公司樞紐的運能對我們造成任何影響。

So all in all, very, very positive and Atlanta is down in competitive capacity, Detroit is down. And you've seen the lower end improving quite a bit. On the international front, you're right, hedges will start coming off. And I think while we've had a strong international performance this quarter, I think that's only going to get better as we see carriers globally have to get -- have to manage their businesses for margins as well. So I see the competitive environment in a really positive light as we go into the fourth-quarter.

總體來說，非常、非常正面；亞特蘭大的競爭性運能下降，底特律也下降。而且你也看到低端市場改善了不少。在國際方面，你說得對，避險會開始到期退出。我認為，雖然我們本季國際業務表現強勁，但隨著全球航空公司也必須為利潤率來管理其業務，情況只會更好。因此，展望第四季，我對競爭環境抱持非常正面的看法。

Mike, this is Ed. If I could add one other data point to Joe's summary as we were pulling our materials together is one data point really stood out for me. You know the importance of generating a proper return in this business and ROIC is probably the most important measure that we all should be held accountable to. Our ROIC, as I mentioned earlier, is 11%, well above cost of capital and moving towards 15%, which is our goal here for the business. If you look at the rest of the domestic industry ex Delta, that number is 3%.

Mike，我是 Ed。如果我可以在 Joe 的總結上再補充一個數據點：我們在整理資料時，有一個數據點對我特別突出。你知道在這個產業中產生適當報酬的重要性，而投入資本報酬率（ROIC）可能是我們都應該被用來衡量與負責的最重要指標。如我先前提到，我們的 ROIC 是 11%，明顯高於資本成本，並正朝 15% 邁進——那是我們對這項業務的目標。如果你看美國國內產業（不含達美），那個數字是 3%。

That means every day, there is a fair bit of the industry continues to destroy its shareholders' capital, and that cannot sustain. So when you ask about competitive capacity, it's great to have little skirmishes in other people's markets. But in a high-cost environment, you cannot grow your way out of it. You must actually take action. And we've seen some action, but there's obviously more to come, particularly next year.

這表示每天都有相當一部分產業仍在侵蝕股東資本，而那是無法長期持續的。所以當你問到競爭性運能時，在別人的市場裡打些小規模的競爭戰或許不錯。但在高成本環境下，你不可能靠擴張來擺脫困境。你必須實際採取行動。我們已經看到一些行動，但顯然還會有更多，特別是在明年。

Conor Cunningham, Melius Research.

Conor Cunningham，Melius Research。

Maybe piggybacking on that answer there, Ed. I was hoping we could just take a step back and talk a little bit about the long-term targets. Over the past couple of years, obviously, earnings has been range bound. There's been a ton of talk of the structural change in the industry, but macro has obviously eroded some of that. So as you look into the future, what changes do you see that give you confidence in this mid-teens framework going forward?

Ed，或許延續你剛才的回答。我希望我們可以退一步，談談長期目標。過去幾年，顯然獲利一直在區間內波動。市場大量討論產業結構性變化，但總體環境顯然侵蝕了其中一部分成果。所以展望未來，你看到哪些變化，讓你對未來維持在「十幾％」這個框架更有信心？

I think the biggest one is a bit what I just referred to. And what we have seen over this last year, the ability of the industry to get much greater value for the product that we offer. And unfortunately, it took a fuel spike to -- in a short order to move people in that direction. But as we see the customer response candidly, the limited amount of resistance that we see, the fact that our product continues to be seen in a consumer basket as reasonably affordable even at a 20% price increase, which largely we have taken this year.

我認為最大的一點，某種程度上就是我剛才提到的。而我們在過去一年看到的是，產業能夠為我們所提供的產品取得更高的價值。不幸的是，這需要一次燃油價格飆升——在短時間內——才把大家推向那個方向。但坦白說，從客戶反應來看，我們看到的抗拒相當有限；而且即使票價上漲 20%（這基本上是我們今年已經採取的幅度），我們的產品在消費者的支出籃子中仍被視為相對可負擔。

I think that's a very good sign for the future. Fuel prices will recede. Now how much, how fast, I don't know, but they will. And the test for us at Delta, and I think for the industry is to ensure that we sustain the revenue that we have created, and I don't see any reason why we shouldn't. And so I think that -- and as we've said in our remarks, that's masking today. High fuel prices are masking some of that inherent margin improvement.

我認為這對未來是非常好的訊號。燃油價格會回落。至於回落多少、速度多快，我不知道，但它們會回落。對我們達美而言、我想對整個產業也是一樣，考驗在於確保我們能維持已創造出的營收，而我看不出有任何理由我們做不到。因此我認為——正如我們在發言中所說——目前有些情況被掩蓋了。高燃油價格正在掩蓋部分內生的利潤率改善。

But -- and it's really hard to show margin improvement when fuel prices are doubling on you. But we'll get to the other end of this, and I think you're going to see a different environment. And I think you'll see structural changes that will continue to occur because there's no other option here, but the carriers are going to have to justify why they're putting capacity and supply out into the marketplace.

但是——當燃油價格翻倍時，要展現利潤率改善真的非常困難。不過我們會走過這一段，我認為你將會看到一個不同的環境。而且我認為結構性變化仍會持續發生，因為除此之外別無選擇；航空公司必須說明為什麼要把運能與供給投放到市場上。

On the other hand, we have a lot of things that are within our control. We've invested heavily in getting our reliability and our resilience back. It's been costly. And the changes we're making operationally and the investments we're taking, both in technology and in people and process are going to make a difference. So I think you're going to see -- also see a more sustainable nonfuel cost from us, too.

另一方面，我們也有很多事情是在我們可控範圍內。我們已大幅投資，讓可靠性與韌性回到應有水準。這很昂貴。而我們在營運上的調整，以及在科技、人員與流程上的投資，都將帶來改變。因此我認為你也會看到——我們的非燃油成本將更具可持續性。

The last year has been a bit painful. And I think we're -- I know we're at the peak of that, and we're going to start coming down. So those are two of the things I see over the next several years that give me reason to believe that mid-double-digit margin target and 15% ROI for Delta is a framework that we should hit.

過去一年有點痛苦。我認為——我知道——我們已經在那個高峰，接下來會開始回落。所以，這是我在未來幾年看到的兩件事，讓我相信「中雙位數」的利潤率目標以及達美 15% 的投資報酬率（ROI）是我們應該能達成的框架。

Great. And then maybe, Joe, I was hoping you could talk a little bit about the importance of striking a balance between load factors and yields. I suspect you're going to be one of the few, if not the only one with the load factors flat to up. So if you could just talk a little bit about how you view that? And just do you think it's important for the industry to make the right choice on protecting yields right now rather than going after load factors in general?

很好。接著也許，Joe，我希望你能談談在載客率與收益率之間取得平衡的重要性。我猜你們可能是少數、甚至唯一一家載客率持平到上升的公司。所以如果你能談談你如何看待這件事？以及你是否認為，對整個產業而言，現在做出正確選擇、優先保護收益率，而不是普遍追求載客率，是很重要的？

Yes. No, thanks. Yes, it's always a balance. And I said, we're managing the business for margins. And I really think that if you keep -- if you keep centered on that, you'll -- supply and demand then will come in as how we look at the markets. And I think it's also where we're supplying the marketplace. We're supplying it in premium seats, not Main Cabin seats and getting even improvements, higher-than-average improvements in the Main Cabin average fares and load factor.

是的。不，謝謝。是的，這永遠是一種平衡。我也說過，我們是以利潤率來管理這門生意。我真的認為，只要你持續把焦點放在這上面，你就會——供需就會成為我們看待市場的方式之一。而且我認為也取決於我們把供給投放到市場的哪個位置。我們投放的是高端座位，而不是主艙（Main Cabin）座位；同時主艙平均票價與載客率也出現甚至高於平均的改善。

So I think it's also where you're supplying it. When we're flat in capacity for the third-quarter, I think the outcome was really favorable for us of how we managed through it. So we absolutely have to kind of look at where it's going for the future. And running an 86% load for the quarter, we still have a little bit of room to put people on our planes as well.

所以我認為也取決於你把供給放在哪裡。當我們第三季運能持平時，我認為我們在管理過程中的結果對我們非常有利。因此我們絕對必須去看未來的走向。本季載客率為 86%，我們也仍有一些空間可以把更多旅客安排上機。

So there's -- so I think we've struck the right balance between yield and capacity. And even you look at the fourth-quarter with 3%, I still think it's -- when you look at real absolute seats, that's below 2%. And half of that capacity is going into long-haul international, which has been very resilient as well.

所以——我認為我們在收益率與運能之間取得了適當的平衡。而且即使你看第四季的3%，我仍然認為——當你看實際的絕對座位數時，那其實低於2%。其中一半的運能投放在長程國際航線，而那一塊同樣一直非常具韌性。

Tom Fitzgerald, TD Cowen.

Tom Fitzgerald，TD Cowen。

I'm curious if you could speak to how you're thinking about the mix across your cabins next year in terms of premium seats and Main Cabin seats and just any impact of the delivery schedules on how the mix could change next year?

我想請教一下，對於明年各艙等的組合——就高端座位與主艙等座位而言——你們是如何思考的？以及交機時程對明年組合可能帶來的任何影響？

Thanks, Tom. We'll see a very similar balance between the Premium Cabins and Main Cabin. We'll be -- we don't -- we're not announcing any capacity yet for next year. But that balance of growing premium and keeping Main Cabin at a modest level will be similar to how we go into the future. And we'll see where deliveries are. Right now, we're always flexible and those move around. And we have pretty good line of sight as to what's being delivered next year.

謝謝你，Tom。我們會看到高端艙等與主艙等之間非常相近的平衡。我們——我們目前還不會公布明年的任何運能。但這種「擴大高端、同時讓主艙等維持溫和水準」的平衡，會與我們未來的方向相似。至於交機，我們會再觀察。目前我們一向保持彈性，時程也會有所調整。而且我們對於明年將交付哪些飛機，現在的能見度相當不錯。

Okay. That's really helpful. And then just as a quick follow-up for Dan. You mentioned MRO doubling over the next several years. I'm just curious, any early color on how you're thinking about the MRO business in 2027?

了解。這很有幫助。接著快速追問 Dan 一題。你提到 MRO 在未來幾年會翻倍。我想請問，對於 2027 年的 MRO 業務，你們是否有任何初步看法可以分享？

No, I think if you just look back the last '24, '25, '26, accelerating revenue growth and margin expansion. And when we think about the team, we always want to run it where we believe with their backlog at record levels and what our commercial pipeline has, you should see really good double-digit revenue growth and a continued focus on steady margin expansion.

沒有，我認為如果你回頭看 24、25、26 年，你會看到營收成長加速以及利潤率擴張。而當我們思考這個團隊時，我們一向希望以這樣的方式來運作：在積壓訂單創新高、以及我們商業管線所具備的機會之下，你應該會看到非常好的雙位數營收成長，並且持續聚焦於穩健的利潤率擴張。

We'd like to always see at least 100 basis points in the year. We'll get an outsized amount this year. Some of that's a little bit depending on your customer and engine mix that you're dealing with in any given quarter or year, but that's a focus with an eye to the long term that this really has the opportunity to double and then keep growing from there.

我們希望每年至少能看到 100 個基點的提升。今年我們會拿到相對更大的增幅。其中一部分會取決於你在任何一個季度或年度所面對的客戶與引擎組合，但我們的重點是著眼長期：這項業務確實有機會先翻倍，之後再從那裡持續成長。

Duane Pfennigwerth, Evercore ISI.

Duane Pfennigwerth，Evercore ISI。

Just a short-term and a longer-term one for me. First, as you think about the fourth-quarter, playing back last year, mid-November had a pretty big headwind from the government shutdown, forced cancellations, lots of crazy media coverage around that. Can you speak to maybe the acceleration that you expect to see and more interestingly, maybe exit rate on RASM relative to the guide that you're giving for the entire quarter?

我有一個短期與一個長期的問題。首先，談到第四季，回顧去年，11 月中旬因政府關門帶來相當大的逆風，造成被迫取消航班，媒體也有很多誇張的報導。你能否談談你們預期會看到的加速情況？更有意思的是，相對於你們給出的整季指引，RASM 的期末（exit rate）表現會如何？

Yes. Thanks, Duane. For the noise we had last year, last year, we had said it was about 2 points of headwind for the quarter. So we expect to have unit revenue progression from third-quarter to fourth-quarter, even net of that headwind. So as we exit -- so November will obviously be a very strong month as we lap the government shutdown.

可以。謝謝你，Duane。就去年那些雜訊而言，我們當時說那對整季大約是 2 個百分點的逆風。因此我們預期單位營收會從第三季到第四季呈現改善，即使扣除那個逆風也是如此。所以在期末——11 月顯然會是一個非常強勁的月份，因為我們會與政府關門的影響形成對比基期（lap）。

We saw the pressure from the government shutdown went from October 1 to mid-November, really in the top of November as we -- as the cancellations went in place. So we'll see some good exit rates for the end of the month of October and into November.

我們看到政府關門帶來的壓力從 10 月 1 日一路延續到 11 月中旬，實際上在 11 月初最為明顯，因為——因為取消航班開始生效。所以我們會在 10 月底到 11 月期間看到不錯的期末走勢。

Great. And then longer term, I know it's always tricky to use a term like algo, but if we think about the growth of non-ticket overall, things like travel products, MRO, which has come up a few times on this call, you're increasing non-airline partnership revenue. How do you think about the growth of these buckets overall relative to capacity? And is there any way to link that to, say, maybe a point or two of RASM expansion independent of what PRASM might be doing?

很好。再來是長期面，我知道用「演算法（algo）」這種說法總是有點棘手，但如果我們思考非機票收入的整體成長，例如旅遊產品、MRO（這通電話裡已經提到好幾次）、以及你們正在提升的非航空合作夥伴收入。你們如何看待這些收入桶（buckets）的整體成長相對於運能的關係？是否有任何方式可以把它連結到——例如——在 PRASM 可能如何變動之外，仍能帶來 1 到 2 個百分點的 RASM 擴張？

Yes, I think you're seeing that today. Right now, we're 60% -- higher than 60% of our revenue is coming from diversified revenue streams. We call that premium and other, and Main Cabin is now at 39%. And those revenue streams have grown high -- very-high teens that we're going through when you look at cargo up 29% and loyalty up 18% in this quarter. Insurance, while it's a small amount of money, those are growing at much higher rates than capacity.

是的，我認為你現在就看得到。目前，我們超過 60% 的營收來自多元化的收入來源。我們把它稱為「高端與其他」，而主艙等現在是 39%。而當你看到本季貨運成長 29%、忠誠計畫成長 18% 時，這些收入來源正以高——非常高的十幾％增速在成長。保險雖然金額不大，但其成長率也遠高於運能成長。

So I think you're seeing that embedded this year in our revenue performance as the -- as we continue to diversify those streams and getting even stronger as you keep bringing better partners and products into the fold in the ecosystem.

所以我認為你今年在我們的營收表現中已經看到這點被內嵌其中——隨著我們持續讓這些收入來源更多元化，並且在生態系中納入更好的合作夥伴與產品，這股動能會變得更強。

And Duane, it's important to note that those revenue streams that Joe mentioned all come at much higher contribution margins, not just RASM to the business. And so that's also very important for us.

而且 Duane，很重要的一點是，Joe 提到的那些收入來源，其貢獻毛利率（contribution margins）都高得多，不只是對業務的 RASM 而已。所以這對我們也非常重要。

John Godyn, Citigroup.

John Godyn，花旗集團。

On capacity, you guys used the phrase normalized for capacity growth next year. I'm just hoping you could talk a bit more about the contours around that, given how depressed it was this year, and you guys did a great job reacting quickly to the market, that normalized for next year could be interpreted as a pretty wide range if we're catching up on two years of growth, but I don't think that's what you're suggesting. So maybe anything you can clarify there would be great.

關於運能，你們用了「明年運能成長正常化（normalized）」這個說法。我希望你們能更談談這背後的輪廓，因為今年的運能成長被壓得很低，而你們也很成功地快速因應市場；因此「明年正常化」可能會被解讀成很大的區間——如果是在補回兩年的成長——但我不認為你們是在暗示這件事。所以如果能釐清一下會很有幫助。

John, it's Ed. I -- normalized in an abnormal environment is kind of hard to make too many comments around. Obviously, we're running the business for margins. And so that's always the one of the first considerations. So we'll have, hopefully, a better view in a few months' time as to the direction of oil prices. I think that's -- it's a really important part of our deliberations.

John，我是 Ed。我——在不正常的環境下談「正常化」，其實很難做太多評論。很明顯地，我們是以利潤率來經營這門生意。因此那永遠是最優先的考量之一。所以希望再過幾個月，我們能更清楚油價走勢的方向。我認為那——是我們審慎評估時非常重要的一部分。

And to the extent that these product prices are here with us for longer than we were thinking, you can expect our capacity is not going to be normal by past measures, but it's going to be adapted to the environment. We're going to continue to pay close attention to the underlying health of our consumer, the health of the economy. We're going to be mindful of looking at the international picture.

而且如果這些產品價格（product prices）維持在我們身邊的時間比我們原先想的更久，你可以預期我們的運能不會以過去的標準來看是「正常」，但會是因應環境而調整後的結果。我們會持續密切關注消費者的基本健康狀況、以及整體經濟的健康狀況。我們也會留意國際市場的情勢。

I think you're going to probably see more of our growth international than domestic. And of course, going forward, you're going to hopefully not beginning of next year, but mid to late next year, you're going to start to see some gauge return to the domestic system, which will be welcomed because that's the most efficient capacity that we can create. So you put those things into the hopper.

我認為你可能會看到我們更多的成長來自國際而非國內。當然，往後看，希望不是明年年初，但在明年年中到下半年，你會開始看到一些機型規模（gauge）回到國內系統，這會是好事，因為那是我們能創造的最高效率運能。所以把這些因素都放進去一起考量。

I think in the environment we're in, we're going to -- there's -- we're going to be adaptive to what we're seeing happen. We're hoping that things will normalize and then you'll get back to a rate of growth from Delta that you could look at historically is pretty much tied to GDP. But we're going to be cautious, I'd say, going into the next year and until we see the all-clear sign, particularly on fuel.

我認為在我們所處的環境下，我們將會——也就是說——我們會依據所看到的情況，保持彈性調整。我們希望情況能夠回歸正常，然後你會看到達美回到一個成長率；從歷史來看，這基本上與GDP高度連動。但我想我們在進入明年時會保持謹慎，直到我們看到明確的「解除警報」訊號，尤其是在燃油方面。

It's great to hear that. And if I could just ask one more. You alluded to some of the capacity hotspots that are out there. You've been able to avoid those. But now in Seattle, your Seattle-based competitor is talking about quite a lot of growth, product investment, international expansion sort of channels the battle for Seattle themes from 10-plus years ago. I was hoping maybe you could just plug us into Delta's long-term plan in Seattle and how you see this developing.

很高興聽到這點。如果我可以再問一個問題。你提到外面有一些運能的熱點。你們一直能避開那些。但現在在西雅圖，你們以西雅圖為基地的競爭對手談到相當多的成長、產品投資、國際擴張，有點像是重現10多年前「西雅圖之戰」的主題。我想請你談談達美在西雅圖的長期規劃，以及你如何看待後續發展。

Yes, thanks. We've been very pleased with Seattle, especially the business atmosphere of the Pacific Northwest, the corporate environment. Our products sell very well up into the marketplace. And Delta, we do our own strategy in Seattle. It has both a domestic purpose as well as a great transpacific gateway. So we're going to continue to do -- invest in that marketplace, not only from capacity, but also in the products we put out. We have a Delta One Lounge.

是的，謝謝。我們對西雅圖非常滿意，特別是太平洋西北地區的商業氛圍與企業環境。我們的產品在當地市場賣得非常好。而達美在西雅圖有我們自己的策略。它既有國內航網的目的，也是一個很棒的跨太平洋門戶。所以我們會持續——投資這個市場，不僅在運能上，也在我們推出的產品上。我們有一個Delta One貴賓室。

We have two Sky Clubs and continuing to focus on that premium traffic for Seattle is really our Northern Star. And we're going to continue to add in international because it's a great gateway for us.

我們有兩個Sky Club，並且持續聚焦於西雅圖的高端客流，這真的是我們的北極星指標。而且我們會持續增加國際航線，因為這對我們而言是一個很棒的門戶。

And John, I wouldn't suggest there's a battle for Seattle. Seattle is a big and growing market. It's certainly a market that is large enough for us and our principal competitor out there. And when you see the changes they're announcing, I think they're smart. I think that's where the future is going. And -- but we don't have to own every market we fly in. I think you can cohabitate a little bit too. And I think that's about being disciplined.

John，我不會說這是「西雅圖之戰」。西雅圖是一個龐大且成長中的市場。它當然大到足以容納我們以及我們在那裡的主要競爭對手。而當你看到他們宣布的變化時，我認為那是明智的。我認為那就是未來的方向。但是我們不必在每一個我們飛的市場都要成為第一。我認為也可以某種程度上共存。而我認為這關乎紀律。

Chris Wetherbee, Wells Fargo.

Chris Wetherbee，富國銀行。

I maybe wanted to get sort of your updated thinking on sort of the stickiness of the fare increases we've seen so far this year. Obviously, fuel has been elevated and maybe will be for a period of time from here. But I guess as you think about the gains you've gotten versus what sort of other parts of the leisure market look like, generally speaking, how do you think about that in 2027, assuming at some point, Ed, like you said, we do get normalization of fuel?

我想了解一下你們對於今年迄今所看到票價上調「黏著度」的最新看法。顯然燃油價格一直偏高，而且可能還會維持一段時間。但我想，當你們思考你們取得的票價提升，相對於休閒市場其他部分的情況，一般而言，你們如何看待到2027年——假設某個時間點，Ed，如你所說，燃油確實回歸正常？

I'll start, Chris, and I'll turn it to Joe for additional color. Our consumer is really healthy. And yes, fuel has been the impetus for the industry to move quickly to adjust the pricing environment. But given the fact that it has -- the market has accepted these price points, and we still consider in the overall basket of consumer product and service that air travel is reasonably affordable, certainly below the rate of inflation going back either pre- or post-COVID that you've seen in the consumer economy more broadly.

Chris，我先回答，然後再請Joe補充一些細節。我們的消費者狀況非常健康。是的，燃油一直是促使產業快速調整定價環境的推力。但鑑於市場已經接受了這些價格水準，而且我們仍然認為，在整體消費產品與服務的組合中，航空旅行仍算相當可負擔；回顧COVID前或COVID後，相較於更廣泛消費經濟中你所看到的通膨水準，航空票價的漲幅確實低於通膨。

The health of our targeted consumers, the thing we mentioned about top 40% of US households has accumulated $40 trillion of wealth and travel is one of their very top priorities. I think where we're at is very sustainable. We'll work at it. But when you think about loyalty, when you think about growth in experience economy, when you think about the opportunities that we have to continue to invest to make the product stickier and the relationships even more powerful.

我們目標客群的健康度——我們提到美國家庭中前40%累積了40兆美元的財富，而旅行是他們最優先的事項之一。我認為我們目前的位置非常可持續。我們會持續努力。但當你想到忠誠計畫、想到體驗經濟的成長、想到我們持續投資的機會，以讓產品更具黏著度、讓關係更強大。

I think we're going to be fine as you look forward. And hopefully, we will see fuel recede into the next year at some point. And that's when I think you'll see the real earnings power of this franchise be amplified.

我認為往前看我們會沒問題。也希望我們能在明年某個時間點看到燃油價格回落。而那時我認為你會看到這個事業體的真正獲利能力被放大。

Very helpful. Appreciate that. And then maybe just a quick follow-up on the CASM-Ex commentary, particularly as you think about next year, the operational investment you're making this year, is this something where we could see sort of the absolute costs come down as we think about '27? Or is it you sort of maintain the cost until the growth rate is normalized next year?

非常有幫助。謝謝。接著可能快速追問一下關於CASM-Ex（不含特殊項目的單位成本）的評論，特別是當你們看明年時，今年所做的營運投資——這是否意味著當我們看向2027年時，絕對成本有機會下降？還是說你們會維持成本水準，直到明年成長率回到正常？

Yes. I think we're certainly seeing improvement. We're at the peak of our CASM right now, but we'll begin to lap the investments we've made. These investments and costs are in our baseline. So I would be planning on a low-single-digit kind of number for now as we continue to make the right investments to take care of our customers.

是的。我認為我們確實正在看到改善。我們現在正處於CASM的高峰，但我們將開始進入「追平」我們已做投資的階段。這些投資與成本已納入我們的基準。所以目前我會以低個位數的水準來規劃，同時我們會持續做出正確的投資來照顧我們的客戶。

I don't think you'll see the absolute number of CASM come down. That would be pretty hard. But I think you'll see the utilization of that absolute dollar value in terms of efficiency and productivity certainly have hopefully an outsized impact.

我不認為你會看到CASM的絕對數字下降。那會相當困難。但我認為你會看到在效率與生產力方面，對這些絕對美元成本的運用率提升，並且希望帶來更顯著的影響。

Michael Goldie, BMO.

Michael Goldie，BMO。

Just one question for me. Corporate continues to be very healthy. Can you talk a bit about where the corporate franchise sits today in respect to the Transpacific and how you think of that opportunity, but also competitive intensity for business travel to Asia as you expand in the region?

我這邊只有一個問題。企業客戶需求仍然非常健康。你能否談談目前企業客戶業務在跨太平洋航線上的定位，以及你如何看待這個機會；同時，當你們在該區域擴張時，前往亞洲的商務旅行競爭強度又是如何？

Yes. Thanks, Michael. The corporate demand, yes, has been very resilient, and we're great to see that there's no cracks in it as we go into the future. And the economy is very strong. So business wants to travel. And I think when you think about the Transpacific, there's been quite a few economies that we don't participate in. So that corporate piece -- and there -- our customers are forced to take other airlines in that space in the corporate side.

好的。謝謝，Michael。企業需求確實一直非常有韌性，我們也很高興看到在展望未來時沒有出現任何裂痕。而且經濟非常強勁。所以企業想要出差旅行。我認為當你談到跨太平洋時，有不少經濟體我們目前並未參與。因此在企業端那一塊——我們的客戶在那個領域的企業需求，被迫搭乘其他航空公司。

So as you add these economies on, that moves that corporate traffic to Delta, and we've seen really good -- our corporates move over to us when we go to markets like Taipei and Hong Kong and continue to expand. That's what our corporates are asking for. So it's good to be able to make sure we offer the biggest economies in the world.

所以當你把這些經濟體航點加進來，就會把那部分企業客流轉移到達美；而我們也看到非常好的——當我們進入像台北、香港等市場並持續擴張時，我們的企業客戶確實轉向我們。這正是我們的企業客戶所要求的。因此，能確保我們提供全球最大的經濟體市場覆蓋，是一件好事。

Jamie Baker, JPMorgan.

Jamie Baker，摩根大通。

So Ed, by our estimates, if Air Canada's loyalty program is valued at $10 billion. I'm sure you saw the recent transaction there. Then given Delta's size, scale and margins, SkyMiles is, I don't know, let's call it a number of more than $75 billion, okay? Any new thoughts here on why it does not make sense to pursue some sort of partial monetization? I haven't asked you about this in a couple of years, but Air Canada has gotten us thinking about this topic again.

Ed，依我們估算，如果加拿大航空的忠誠計畫估值為100億美元。我相信你也看到了那邊最近的交易。那麼以達美的規模、體量與利潤率來看，SkyMiles的價值，我不知道，我們就說可能超過750億美元，好嗎？對於為什麼不去推動某種形式的部分變現，你這邊有沒有新的想法？我已經有幾年沒問你這個問題了，但加拿大航空讓我們又重新思考這個主題。

Jamie, yes, I haven't heard that a bit. So I have to pause before I respond here. The most important thing that we have is the brand premium that we deliver to the marketplace. And it comes from lots of avenues, whether it's the reliable service, great service of our people or the strength of our commercial network and technology.

Jamie，是的，我也有一段時間沒聽到這個說法了。所以在我回應之前，我得先停一下。我們最重要的資產，是我們為市場帶來的品牌溢價。而這來自很多面向，不論是可靠的營運、我們同仁提供的優質服務，或是我們商務網路與科技的實力。

And one of the other things, as you know, that's really important to us is the loyalty itself arrangement with principally American Express, but we have other partners that we are increasingly building out a bigger ecosystem of experiences as well. And if you think about that question just back a few years ago and whatever values were being discussed, my guess is the value that was ascribed to the Delta loyalty plan was meaningfully less than it is today, which means we've grown the franchise, both our own market cap as well as the value of loyalty.

另外一件你也知道、對我們非常重要的事，是我們的忠誠度合作安排，主要是與美國運通（American Express），但我們也有其他合作夥伴，並且正逐步擴大體驗生態系。如果你回想幾年前同樣的問題、以及當時市場在討論的各種估值，我猜當時賦予達美忠誠計畫的價值，明顯低於今天；這代表我們把這個特許經營（franchise）做大了，不僅是我們自身的市值，也包括忠誠度業務的價值。

And we'll continue, I think, doing that going forward. I'm really reticent to put a third-party, a financial investor between us and our best customers and preference. And when you think about the world of AI, about the Agentic economy where to me, at some level, it sounds like the OTA is returning to the scene here, trying to commoditize your product and your premiums.

而我想我們未來也會持續這麼做。我非常不願意在我們與最好的客戶及其偏好之間，插入第三方的金融投資人。而當你想到 AI 的世界、想到 Agentic 經濟時，對我而言，在某種程度上，聽起來像是 OTA 又回到舞台上，試圖把你的產品與溢價商品化。

I think it's even more important that we hold tight and continue to ensure that we're focused on premium, we're focused on service and not getting distracted by trying to cash out along the journey. At some point in time, this company very well may consider that as the best opportunity for shareholder value creation. But we're doing a pretty good job, I think, to date of shareholder value creation.

我認為因此更重要的是，我們要緊緊守住，並持續確保我們聚焦在高端（premium）、聚焦在服務，而不是在旅程中被「套現」的想法分心。在某個時間點，這家公司很可能會認為那是創造股東價值的最佳機會。但我認為截至目前，我們在創造股東價值方面做得相當不錯。

We see a lot of controllable improvements that we can make to get to our framework. And should we get to our framework in the next couple of years, as I hope we will, I think this question will answer itself that we've made the right decision to keep that in-house.

我們看到很多可控的改善空間，可以幫助我們達成既定框架（framework）。如果我們能在未來一兩年內達成該框架——我希望我們會——我想這個問題就會不言自明：把它留在公司內部是正確的決定。

Okay. Perfect. Thanks for revisiting that topic. And then just quickly for Joe, sort of a key pricing question, if you will. I've noticed that some of your international competitors are beginning to levy different fuel surcharges based on the day of the week, so higher surcharges on peak travel days. One, I'm just curious if you consider this to be widespread.

好的。太好了。謝謝你再回到這個主題。接著很快問 Joe 一個關鍵的定價問題。我注意到一些國際競爭對手開始依照一週中的不同日子收取不同的燃油附加費，在旅遊尖峰日收得更高。第一，我只是好奇你是否認為這會變得普遍。

And two, and I'm not asking about future Delta pricing, but at an industry level, does this represent sort of another pocket of untapped pricing power? I just don't recall seeing this in the past.

第二，我不是在問達美未來的定價，但就產業層面而言，這是否代表另一塊尚未被開發的定價能力（pricing power）？我只是記得過去好像沒看過這種做法。

No, I don't recall seeing it in the past, and it's a rather new phenomenon on peak days fuel surcharges. We haven't moved in that direction. So I think we'll see where the industry moves on it, but it would be something very different than what's happened in the past.

不，我也不記得過去看過，尖峰日燃油附加費算是相當新的現象。我們沒有往那個方向走。所以我想我們會觀察產業接下來怎麼發展，但這會是與過去做法非常不同的一件事。

Atul Maheswari, UBS.

Atul Maheswari，瑞銀（UBS）。

Two questions, one long term, one short term. First, on the longer-term question, Ed, I wanted to follow up on your recent comment that you made in an answer to one of the previous questions about the emergence of these AI-powered shopping assistants. This has become a bit of a topic in the investment community. What is your overall take on it? Do you think this is a net positive or a net negative for airlines? And how do you ensure that you are present in that space if needed, while also protecting the Delta brand that your customers love?

兩個問題，一個長期、一個短期。先談長期問題，Ed，我想追問你最近在回答前面某個問題時提到的：這些由 AI 驅動的購物助理正在出現。這在投資圈已成為一個話題。你整體怎麼看？你認為這對航空公司而言是淨正面還是淨負面？以及你如何在需要時確保你能在那個領域占有一席之地，同時又能保護客戶喜愛的達美品牌？

Well, we'll see. I think it's early days, but I -- you probably gather from my comments, we're going to be a little cautious about who we give access to our inventory with. We have, I think, done a good job of getting out ahead of it when we built out the concierge that we announced 1.5 years ago, and it's fully up and running today, which is our Agentic solution to taking care of our best customers.

嗯，我們再看看。我認為現在還在早期，但——你大概也從我的評論聽得出來——我們會對把庫存存取權（inventory access）交給誰保持更謹慎。我認為我們做得不錯、提前布局：我們在 1.5 年前宣布並建置的 concierge，如今已全面上線運作，這就是我們用來照顧最佳客戶的 Agentic 解決方案。

And we are -- we've got a lot of work still to go to make it even more adaptable and more useful to our customers, but letting our customers engage with our agents to handle their needs and have the agent at our customers' footsteps. I do think the -- this question of brand will be very important in the Agentic economy for the future and brand loyalty and preference is going to be one of the ways in which the strong will stay strong and the agents who are looking to shop you and continue to try to compete us all against ourselves will be a danger that we need to be mindful of.

而我們——仍有很多工作要做，讓它更具適應性、對客戶更有用；但讓客戶能與我們的代理（agents）互動來處理需求，讓代理能在客戶身邊隨時待命。我確實認為——在未來的 Agentic 經濟中，品牌這個問題會非常重要；品牌忠誠與偏好將是強者恆強的方式之一，而那些想要替你比價、並持續試圖讓我們彼此互相競爭的代理，會是一個我們必須留意的風險。

And I think you see it across many aspects of the consumer economy. And I think all companies of our size and focus are looking at it and being careful. I think there's opportunities when you're working maybe in the corporate space directly with our corporate customers where it's a known agent to provide access and provide opportunity. But broad speaking, I'm not a big fan of the idea, and we'll be very cautious as we think about it to the future.

我想你在消費者經濟的許多面向都看得到這點。我認為所有像我們這種規模、且聚焦明確的公司都在研究這件事並保持謹慎。我認為在某些情境下存在機會，例如在企業端（corporate）直接與企業客戶合作時，若是已知的代理（known agent），提供存取與機會是可行的。但整體而言，我並不太喜歡這個想法，我們在思考未來時會非常謹慎。

Got it. That's very helpful. And then as a second question, Joe, if you can provide some color on what you're seeing out there for the early 1Q bookings, that would be very helpful.

了解。這非常有幫助。第二個問題，Joe，如果你能補充一下你們看到的第一季初期訂位（1Q bookings）情況，會很有幫助。

Yes. Thanks. Like I said, fourth-quarter is booking very well. Early indications from 1Q are very similar to 4Q. And so we're continuing to see good strength. We're assuming the economy is strong and it is, and our corporates continue to book. So we'll be very -- we feel very good about forward bookings. We have good visibility probably for the next 90 to 120 days, which gets into the first-quarter and all indications are very positive.

好的。謝謝。如我所說，第四季訂位表現非常好。第一季的早期跡象與第四季非常相似。因此我們持續看到不錯的強度。我們假設經濟強勁——而事實確實如此——企業客戶也持續訂位。所以我們對未來訂位感到非常——我們對前瞻訂位非常有信心。我們大概能看見接下來 90 到 120 天的能見度，這涵蓋到第一季，而所有跡象都非常正面。

Brandon Oglenski, Barclays.

Brandon Oglenski，巴克萊（Barclays）。

I guess I wonder if I could follow up on the operational reliability issues this year and the costs that you guys are adding into that baseline, especially as you think into 2027. It sounds like maybe you're having more reserve crews, but I'm not quite sure what's driving that baseline increase. And then maybe as a follow-up to that and longer term, and maybe this is for you or Ed or Dan.

我想追問一下今年營運可靠度（operational reliability）問題，以及你們把哪些成本加進了基準（baseline），特別是當你們把時間拉到 2027 年來看。聽起來你們可能增加了更多備援機組（reserve crews），但我不太確定是什麼在推動基準成本上升。接著也許作為延伸、偏長期的問題，可能是問你或 Ed 或 Dan。

But as we think back to like the last round of negotiations with labor and specifically your pilot group and others as well, that's been pretty consequential here for airline cost inflation, which for the industry has been pretty much above average across the economy. So I guess, how do you balance the need for service for employee pay as well as getting margins back in line, especially in light of CASM?

當我們回頭看上一輪與勞方的談判，尤其是與你們的飛行員團體以及其他團體，那對航空業成本通膨影響相當大；就整個產業而言，成本通膨幾乎一直高於整體經濟的平均。所以我想問的是，你們如何在員工薪酬所需的服務水準與讓利潤率（margins）回到合理水準之間取得平衡，特別是在 CASM 的背景下？

Yes, Brandon, good to hear from you. As it relates to operational reliability and that resilience, and Erik mentioned it, that controllable completion factor has been the focus and certainly been investing and taking actions across the system, but the real focus has been on that crew resiliency. How do we ensure that we improve that and we improve it, especially in periods of disruption.

是的，Brandon，很高興聽到你的聲音。就營運可靠性與韌性而言，Erik 也提到過，那個可控的完工係數一直是我們的重點，當然我們也在整個系統中持續投資並採取行動，但真正的重點一直放在機組人員的韌性上。我們要如何確保改善，而且要在發生干擾的期間特別把它做好。

So it's been a focus around investing around the process, the technology, the data and the resources associated with that so that you ensure that you more effectively manage the demand and the churn and resources as you go through those operational disruptions and you better marry it with supply. And the actions that the team has been taking, you're seeing consistent improvement from -- in second-quarter from first-quarter and then again in third-quarter.

因此，我們的重點在於對流程、技術、數據以及相關資源進行投資，確保在經歷這些營運中斷時，能更有效地管理需求、流失與資源配置，並且更好地與供給相匹配。而團隊所採取的行動，你也看到持續改善——第二季相較第一季改善，第三季又再進一步改善。

And we anticipate that transpiring here as we go into fourth-quarter and next year related to that. So that's been the primary element of the investment and the areas of focus for us and the teams.

我們預期在進入第四季以及明年時，這些改善也會持續發生。因此，這一直是我們與團隊投資的主要要素與聚焦的領域。

And on the question of negotiations, obviously, we're not going to comment on that, Brandon. But I can tell you our priority is getting the resilience that Dan mentioned and the reliability of the crews back. And it's hard for us to even think about getting too far out into a contract negotiation until we have the baseline of reliable operation that we have confidence in established.

至於你問到談判的問題，顯然我們不會對此發表評論，Brandon。但我可以告訴你，我們的優先事項是把 Dan 提到的韌性以及機組運作的可靠性恢復回來。在我們建立起一個有信心的可靠營運基準之前，我們很難去思考把合約談判推進到太遠的程度。

Catherine O'Brien, Goldman Sachs.

Catherine O'Brien，高盛。

I just wanted to start with a bit of a follow-up to Savi's question. So loyalty revenue growth has really stood out the last couple of quarters. And you noted that engagement, particularly in premium cabins is driving a part of that. But I was just wondering, could you provide some further color on how maybe changes in the card portfolio or some of these partnerships are also factoring in or how market share gains or maybe uptick in wallet share might be contributing?

我想先針對 Savi 的問題做一點追問。所以，忠誠度收入成長在過去幾季確實非常突出。你也提到，互動度（特別是在高端艙等）正在推動其中一部分。但我想請問，你能否再多補充一些細節：例如信用卡產品組合的變化，或某些合作夥伴關係也在其中扮演什麼角色？或者市占率提升、以及錢包占比（wallet share）上升是否也有貢獻？

Just trying to get a more detailed look at what's driving this growth and how sustainable these trends are or if we could even expect further acceleration?

我只是想更細緻地了解，究竟是什麼在推動這個成長，以及這些趨勢的可持續性如何，甚至我們是否可能看到進一步加速？

Yes. Thanks, Catie. No, I think when we start out with talking about the strength of the consumer as the foundation for this and how much wealth they have, we've seen great spend on the Amex Card and great -- when you look at the awards of being one, two and three on the most valued card, there's a lot of value in what we're offering our consumers and that relationship comes back to their spend, which has been incredibly strong this year when you think about the environment everybody is in with over double-digit spend and really strong remuneration back to Delta.

是的。謝謝你，Catie。我認為，當我們以消費者的強勁作為基礎來談這件事，以及他們擁有多少財富時，我們看到美國運通卡（Amex Card）的刷卡支出非常亮眼；而且——當你看到在「最具價值信用卡」評比中名列第一、第二與第三的獎項時——我們提供給消費者的價值非常高，而這段關係會反映在他們的消費上。今年在大家所處的環境下，這種消費力道仍然非常強勁：刷卡支出成長超過兩位數，並且對達美帶來非常可觀的回饋（remuneration）。

So the engagement with the customer has never been stronger. And I think when you add up any individual one is good. But when you put the portfolio of partners we're working together and now adding Hyatt, those are just -- those are really concrete products and partnerships that drive that ecosystem even faster. So not only are we providing the right level of capacity in the cabins they want to spend, but also wrapping it around great partnerships. And so the wealth, the spend, the engagement with us is really what's driving an outsized growth in the loyalty program.

因此，與客戶的互動從未如此強勁。我認為，單看任何一項因素都很不錯。但當你把我們共同合作的夥伴組合加總起來，並且現在又加入 Hyatt，這些都是非常具體的產品與合作關係，能更快推動整個生態系。所以，我們不僅在他們願意花錢的艙等提供適當的運能，也透過優質的合作夥伴把整體體驗包裝起來。因此，財富、消費、以及與我們的互動，才是真正推動忠誠度計畫超常成長的原因。

Catie, if I could add to Joe's comments. One of the things about loyalty that's really important, and I think it's changing as we go is that we're trying to broaden the aperture across all demographics and obviously, very focused on our younger generations and our Gen Zs and millennials and those that look to loyalty aspirationally.

Catie，如果我可以補充 Joe 的評論。忠誠度有一點非常重要，而且我認為它正在改變：我們正嘗試把觸及面擴大到所有人口族群，並且顯然非常聚焦在年輕世代——Z 世代與千禧世代——以及那些以「嚮往式」（aspirational）的角度看待忠誠度的人。

And in doing that, I think you're going to see a move afoot, certainly at Delta and I think maybe other leading consumer brands to be more -- at least as focused on the experiential as the transactional because loyalty historically has been very transactional. It's been very commercial. And that's important, and I don't see that changing.

在這樣做的過程中，我認為你會看到一股趨勢正在形成——當然在達美是如此，我想其他領先的消費品牌也可能一樣——就是至少會同等重視「體驗」與「交易」，因為過去的忠誠度計畫非常偏交易導向。它非常商業化。而那很重要，我也不認為這會改變。

But I think the consumers of tomorrow and the people that are attracted to loyalty and preference want to feel that they have some level of ownership in the experience and the relationship at a deeper level, which is why we're bringing more brands to the table, and we're creating more opportunities for our loyalty members to not just experience the brands, but utilize the brands that include Starbucks, include DraftKings, include many other brands that are within our ecosystem.

但我認為，未來的消費者，以及被忠誠度與偏好所吸引的人，希望在體驗與關係上有更深層的參與感，覺得自己對這段體驗有某種程度的「擁有感」。這也是為什麼我們把更多品牌帶到平台上，並為忠誠會員創造更多機會，不只是體驗這些品牌，也能使用這些品牌——包括 Starbucks、包括 DraftKings，以及我們生態系內的許多其他品牌。

It's one of the reasons why Amazon is really important to us out into the future. So the core loyalty and Jamie's question in terms of the value of our portfolio, I don't dismiss the notion that our loyalty plan could be $75 billion or higher. That's really important that we continue to grow that. And so it's not just pumping out more cards, it's actually the quality of the experience that our customers are getting.

這也是為什麼 Amazon 對我們的長期未來非常重要。因此，核心忠誠度，以及 Jamie 的問題——關於我們產品組合的價值——我不會否定我們的忠誠度計畫可能達到 750 億美元或更高的看法。我們持續把它做大非常重要。所以，這不只是發更多卡而已，而是客戶所獲得的體驗品質。

And that's what we're very, very focused on here at Delta. So it's kind of a higher-level consideration set, but I think you're going to see that play more and more into our thinking as we roll out new partners and opportunities.

這正是我們在達美非常、非常專注的地方。所以這算是比較高層次的考量，但我認為，當我們推出新的合作夥伴與新機會時，你會看到這一點越來越多地融入我們的思考。

That's really interesting. And maybe just one last quick one on the wire here, but you've got a number of commercial initiatives, including the loyalty discussion we're just having underway, aircraft delivering over the next couple of years that should drive further benefits to the P&L. And then you're always evolving the network. Just high level, as we look into 2027, could you walk us through what you see as the key puts and takes on margin progression from here? Obviously, fuel is a huge question mark. Maybe putting that aside, if we can.

這真的很有意思。最後我再快速問一個：你們有多項商業計畫正在推進，包括我們剛才討論的忠誠度；未來幾年也會交付新飛機，這些都應該能為損益表（P&L）帶來更多效益。而且你們也一直在調整航網。從高層次來看，展望 2027 年，你能否帶我們梳理一下，你認為從現在到那時，利潤率演進的主要正負因素（puts and takes）是什麼？顯然燃油是個很大的不確定因素。如果可以的話，也許先把燃油放一邊。

Yes. Yes. We have a lot of tools in our arsenal for '27. And no, we're not going to do a walk for next year's margin. I'd love to, but I'm not going to, I'm going to resist it. But the biggest thing is trying to get to the other end of this volatility that we've seen in fuel and see where that normalizes. I do believe it's going to recede. I don't know at what level it recedes or the pace. I think we all hope it happens sooner rather than later.

是的。是的。我們在 2027 年有很多工具可用。不，我們不會去逐項拆解明年的利潤率。我很想這麼做，但我不會——我會克制。但最大的事情，是要走過我們在燃油上看到的這段波動，並看看它會在什麼水準回歸常態。我確實相信它會回落。我不知道會回落到什麼水準，或回落的速度。我想我們都希望它越早發生越好。

But that's going to be the, I think, the overarching question on '27 margins. And I think for that, we don't have any crystal ball better than you do or anyone else does. But when we start to see a break there, I think the value of the revenue and the new baseline that we've established in sustainability is important, and we intend to hold that.

但我認為，這將是 2027 年利潤率最核心的問題。而在這方面，我們並沒有比你或其他任何人更好的水晶球。但當我們開始看到那裡出現轉折時，我認為我們在收入端的價值，以及我們在可持續性上建立的新基準非常重要，而我們打算把它守住。

And whether it's up-gauging, whether it's new fleet efficiencies, whether it's operational improvements with crews, there's a long list of opportunities within our control that we are working regardless of fuel that will also help our forward view. So I'm bullish about hitting our long-term framework of double-digit operating margin, mid-double digit. And you can see the threads really starting to come into alignment, but we do need a little bit of assistance on fuel along the way to accelerate and amplify that.

無論是放大機型（up-gauging）、新機隊效率、或是透過機組帶來的營運改善，我們可控範圍內有一長串機會；不論燃油如何，我們都在推進，這些也將有助於我們的前瞻展望。因此，我對達成我們長期架構目標——兩位數的營業利潤率、中段兩位數——抱持樂觀。你可以看到各條主線正開始逐步對齊，但在過程中，我們確實需要燃油方面給一點助力，才能加速並放大這些成果。

David Vernon, Bernstein.

David Vernon，Bernstein。

So Joe, can you maybe talk about how paid premium demand and the premium to Main Cabin fare differential has been evolving as you're adding more premium seats into the mix? I'm just trying to see if you've seen any evidence that the premium for departure is having an impact on buy up.

Joe，你能否談談在你們增加更多高端座位配置的同時，付費升等（paid premium）需求以及相對於主艙（Main Cabin）票價的高端艙溢價差（premium to Main Cabin fare differential）是如何演變的？我只是想了解，你們是否看到「出發前升等溢價」對加價購買（buy up）有任何影響的跡象。

Yes. Thanks for the question. Overall, we've seen very strong demand in premium. As we said, as we're growing capacity, 6% to 7%, our loads went up almost 2 points. And fares were going up as well. We weren't discounting fares. So fares continue to move in the right direction and the value that we're offering, I think, has been well received in the marketplace, especially when you now -- when you're rolling out merchandising, not only in the Main Cabin.

是的。謝謝你的提問。整體而言，我們看到高端艙需求非常強勁。如同我們所說，當我們把運能提升6%到7%時，我們的載客率上升了將近2個百分點。票價也在上升。我們並沒有透過折扣來降價。因此票價持續朝正確方向發展，而我們所提供的價值，我認為在市場上獲得了良好回響，特別是當你現在——當你在推動商品化（merchandising）時，不僅是在主艙。

But also into First Class and Premium Select and Delta One, the upgrade take has been very positive, especially what they perceive as the value that we're offering for the Extra and Classic off of our basic fares. So -- and we're really in the early stages of those -- of that upgrade revenue. So it's been very positive from an overall. And it's also now as we've merchandised all of the cabins, we'll continue with that and annualize it as we get into 2027.

也延伸到頭等艙（First Class）、優選經濟艙（Premium Select）以及Delta One；升等的接受度（upgrade take）非常正面，尤其是他們認為我們在基本票價之上所提供的Extra與Classic方案的價值。所以——而且我們其實還處於這些——這項升等收入的早期階段。因此整體來看非常正面。而且現在我們已經把所有艙等都做了商品化，我們會持續推進，並在進入2027年時把它年化反映出來。

And as you think about sort of like load factor, like when a passenger sort of buys the Main Cabin and goes to Main Cabin Extra, does that all stay in Main Cabin -- or does the portion of that go into premium? I'm just trying to get some -- a better understanding of how the math works on what you consider Premium versus Main Cabin and kind of what is a true premium sale versus an upgrade sale?

那當你思考像載客率（load factor）這類指標時，例如乘客買了主艙後再升到主艙加值（Main Cabin Extra），這些收入都仍算在主艙——還是其中一部分會算到高端艙？我只是想更清楚了解，你們在計算上如何界定「高端（Premium）」與「主艙（Main Cabin）」，以及什麼是實際的高端銷售、什麼又是升等銷售？

Yes. All Main Cabin, all three merchandising sets stay in Main Cabin for recognizing that revenue. So the premium is clearly different cabin.

是的。所有主艙的三套商品化方案，在認列該收入時都會留在主艙。所以高端艙很明確是不同的艙等。

Matthew, we'll now take our final analyst question.

Matthew，我們現在將接聽最後一位分析師的提問。

Dan McKenzie, Seaport Global.

Dan McKenzie，Seaport Global。

Joe, if I could go back to your commentary around the upsell revenue. It seems like a really big revenue bucket. But I'm wondering if you can provide some perspective of put some size around. Is it 10% of total revenue? Is it 20%? It just -- it seems like a fast-growing segment, of course.

Joe，如果我可以回到你對加價銷售（upsell）收入的評論。看起來這是一個非常大的收入項目。但我想請你提供一些量化的觀點、給個大概規模。它是總收入的10%嗎？還是20%？只是——它看起來當然是一個成長很快的區塊。

It is a fast-growing -- thanks for the question. It is a fast-growing segment, and we're really early in this process of understanding the cabin. I'm going to stay away from giving you an exact number as we -- but it is very powerful and the early indications on the premium side of upgrading has been very strong. So we're really pleased with it. And we really have only started the premium side only this past quarter and getting into full scale by the time we get into the first half of next year.

它確實是成長很快——謝謝你的提問。這是一個快速成長的區塊，而我們其實還在理解各艙等的這個流程早期階段。我先避免給你一個精確數字，因為我們——但它的力道非常強，而在高端端的升等方面，早期跡象非常強勁。所以我們對此非常滿意。而且我們在高端端其實也只是從上一季才開始，預計到明年上半年時會進入全面規模。

Yes. Okay. A second question here on the cost side of the business, it's really Delta as an IT company. It's a Delta as an IT company question. Is there a cost savings opportunity to say, update legacy systems or potentially to go in-house with some of your outsourced software needs? And I guess I'm just wondering if that's something you're looking at?

是的。好的。第二個問題是關於成本端，這其實是把達美（Delta）當作一家IT公司的問題。這是一個「達美作為IT公司」的問題。是否存在成本節省的機會，例如更新舊有系統（legacy systems），或是針對部分外包的軟體需求改為內部自建（in-house）？我想知道這是不是你們正在評估的方向？

And if so, what those savings might look like two years from now? Of course, software has been a big topic in the market. And of course, AI and programming -- self-programming software is a big topic.

如果是的話，兩年後這些節省可能會呈現什麼樣貌？當然，軟體一直是市場上的熱門話題。當然，AI與程式設計——自我編程軟體（self-programming software）也是熱門話題。

Dan, this is Ed. We moved to the cloud a few years ago. And so that has been a very significant source of savings in terms of efficiency and productivity. on our software development and technology. We do work with outside contractors and development companies, and we have partners in that space. So the key, I think, in this AI generation is to continue to drive faster speeds and more efficient and effective solutions. And our team is doing a good job of that.

Dan，我是Ed。我們幾年前就遷移到雲端了。因此在效率與生產力方面，這在我們的軟體開發與科技上帶來了非常顯著的節省。我們確實與外部承包商與開發公司合作，在這個領域也有合作夥伴。所以我認為，在這一代AI浪潮中，關鍵是持續推動更快的速度，以及更高效率、更有效的解決方案。我們的團隊在這方面做得很好。

All right. Well, thank you. That will wrap up today's call. I hope everyone has a great day. I appreciate you joining.

好的。那麼，謝謝。今天的電話會議就到這裡。祝大家今天愉快。感謝各位參與。

That concludes today's conference. Thank you for your participation today.

今天的會議到此結束。感謝各位今天的參與。