達美航空 (DAL) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the Delta Air Lines September quarter 2025 financial results conference call. My name is Matthew, and I will be your coordinator. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, today's call is being recorded. (Operator Instructions)

大家早安，歡迎參加達美航空 2025 年 9 月季度財務業績電話會議。我叫馬修，我將擔任您的協調員。（操作員指示）提醒一下，今天的通話正在被錄音。（操作員指示）

I would now like to turn the conference over to Julie Stewart, Vice President of Investor Relations, and Corporate Development. Please go ahead.

現在，我想將會議交給投資者關係和企業發展副總裁朱莉·史都華 (Julie Stewart)。請繼續。

Thank you, Matthew. Good morning, and thank you for joining us for our September quarter 2025 earnings call.

謝謝你，馬修。早安，感謝您參加我們的 2025 年 9 月季度收益電話會議。

Joining us today from Atlanta are CEO, Ed Bastian; our President, Glen Hauenstein; and our CFO, Dan Janki. Ed will open the call with an overview of Delta's performance and strategy. Glen will provide an update on the revenue environment, and Dan will discuss costs in our balance sheet.

今天從亞特蘭大加入我們的有執行長 Ed Bastian、總裁 Glen Hauenstein 和財務長 Dan Janki。艾德將在電話會議開始時概述達美航空的業績和策略。格倫將提供有關收入環境的最新信息，丹將討論我們資產負債表中的成本。

After the prepared remarks, we'll take analyst questions. We ask you to please limit yourself to one question and a brief follow-up, so we can get to as many of you as possible. After the analyst Q&A, we will move to our media questions.

準備好的發言之後，我們將回答分析師的提問。我們請您只提出一個問題並進行簡短的跟進，以便我們可以盡可能多地回答您的問題。分析師問答結束後，我們將進入媒體提問環節。

As a reminder, today's discussion contains forward-looking statements that represent our beliefs or expectations about future events. All forward-looking statements involve risks and uncertainties that could cause the actual results to differ materially from the forward-looking statements. Some of the factors that may cause such differences are described in Delta's SEC filings. We'll also discuss non-GAAP financial measures, and all results exclude special items unless otherwise noted.

提醒一下，今天的討論包含前瞻性陳述，代表我們對未來事件的信念或期望。所有前瞻性陳述都涉及風險和不確定性，可能導致實際結果與前瞻性陳述有重大差異。達美航空提交給美國證券交易委員會的文件中描述了一些可能導致此類差異的因素。我們也將討論非公認會計準則財務指標，除非另有說明，所有結果均不包括特殊項目。

And with that, I'll turn it over to Ed.

說完這些，我就把麥克風交給 Ed。

Thank you, Julie. Good morning, everyone. We appreciate you joining us today. This quarter's results reinforce that Delta's competitive advantages and differentiation have never been more evident. In the September quarter, Delta's revenue growth and earnings came in at the top end of our expectations. Delivering performance that we anticipate will lead the industry across all key financial measures.

謝謝你，朱莉。大家早安。感謝您今天加入我們。本季的業績進一步證明，達美航空的競爭優勢和差異化優勢從未如此明顯。9月份當季，達美航空的收入成長和利潤達到了我們預期的最高水準。我們預期，我們的業績將在所有關鍵財務指標上領先於該行業。

Revenue grew 4%, led by premium, corporate and loyalty reflecting the power of Delta's brand, the financial strength of our customer base and improving industry fundamentals. We reported pretax income of $1.5 billion and earnings of $1.71 per share with an 11.2% operating margin. Free cash was $830 million, bringing our year-to-date free cash flow to $2.8 billion. We generated a return on invested capital of 13%, 5 points above our cost of capital and in the top half of the S&P 500.

營收成長 4%，主要得益於優質服務、企業服務和忠誠度，這反映了達美航空的品牌力量、客戶群的財務實力以及行業基本面的改善。我們報告的稅前收入為 15 億美元，每股收益為 1.71 美元，營業利潤率為 11.2%。自由現金為 8.3 億美元，使我們年初至今的自由現金流達到 28 億美元。我們的投資資本報酬率為 13%，比資本成本高出 5 個百分點，位於標準普爾 500 指數的前半部。

Operationally, Delta once again led the industry on reliability and customer experience. Through a busy summer, our teams delivered for our customers, and I want to thank them for their outstanding work and dedication. Their professionalism and care create the trust that consumers have in the Delta brand.

在營運方面，達美航空再次在可靠性和客戶體驗方面領先業界。在忙碌的夏天，我們的團隊為客戶提供了服務，我要感謝他們的出色工作和奉獻精神。他們的專業和關懷贏得了消費者對達美航空品牌的信任。

Sharing success with our people is core to our culture. We've accrued nearly $1 billion year-to-date towards next February's profit sharing because when Delta succeeds, so should our people.

與我們的員工分享成功是我們文化的核心。今年迄今為止，我們已經為明年 2 月的利潤分享累積了近 10 億美元，因為當達美航空取得成功時，我們的員工也應該會成功。

I also want to recognize the essential aviation workers, the controllers, TSA officers, Federal Air Marshals, and many others who are keeping our systems safe and secure during the ongoing government shutdown. Thank you for your professionalism and your commitment to the traveling public. We're hopeful that Congress will act to reopen the government as soon as possible.

我還要感謝重要的航空工作人員、管制員、運輸安全管理局官員、聯邦空中警察以及許多其他人員，他們在政府關門期間確保了我們的系統安全。感謝您的專業精神和對旅行公眾的承諾。我們希望國會能夠盡快採取行動重新開放政府。

Now turning to our outlook. Our fundamentals are improving and the positive momentum is continuing. Since July, travel demand has strengthened, led by a rebound in business travel, which was up high single digits in the quarter. The US economy remains on solid footing, and our customer base is financially strong with rising preference for premium products and services.

現在轉向我們的展望。我們的基本面正在改善，正面的動力正在持續。自 7 月以來，旅遊需求有所增強，其中商務旅行出現反彈，本季商務旅行增加了高個位數。美國經濟依然穩固，我們的客戶群財力雄厚，對優質產品和服務的偏好日益增加。

SkyMiles membership is expanding, particularly among younger consumers and engagement is strong across all cohorts. Consumer spending on the Delta Amex co-brand card is up double digits year-to-date with the recent acceleration in travel and entertainment that mirrors the improvement that we're seeing in bookings.

SkyMiles 會員規模正在不斷擴大，尤其是在年輕消費者中，各個群體的參與度都很高。今年迄今為止，消費者使用 Delta Amex 聯名卡的支出增長了兩位數，近期旅遊和娛樂方面的增長反映了預訂量的改善。

Premium revenue growth remains robust. The main cabin trends are improving. Structural changes taken hold across the industry. Its unprofitable flying is rationalized and carriers, not earning their cost of capital, adjust strategies to prioritize returns. Against this backdrop, we expect to deliver a double-digit operating margin again in the December quarter, with earnings comparable to what we earned in the September quarter.

保費收入成長依然強勁。主艙趨勢正在改善。整個產業正在發生結構性變化。其無利可圖的航班被合理化，航空公司由於無法賺取資本成本，因此調整策略以優先考慮回報。在此背景下，我們預計 12 月季度的營業利潤率將再次達到兩位數，收益與 9 月季度的收益相當。

This would be at or above our all-time fourth quarter earnings performance. This brings our outlook for full year earnings to approximately $6 per share, which is in the upper half of our July guidance range.

這將達到或超過我們第四季的歷史獲利表現。這使我們對全年收益的預期達到每股約 6 美元，處於我們 7 月份指導範圍的上半部分。

Free cash generation remains a key differentiator for Delta, and we are updating our full year outlook to $3.5 billion to $4 billion, growing our cash generation over last year and consistent with our long-term framework as we build a fortress balance sheet.

自由現金產生仍然是達美航空的關鍵差異化因素，我們將全年預期更新為 35 億美元至 40 億美元，使我們的現金產生量比去年有所增長，並與我們構建堡壘資產負債表的長期框架保持一致。

At the heart of our position of industry leadership is a relentless focus on elevating the customer experience. We're investing across every phase of the journey to make travel with Delta more seamless, personalized, and premium, growing our value proposition to customers. On the ground, we're harvesting the benefits of generational investments in our airport infrastructure. This includes upgraded airport facilities, modernized Sky Clubs, to launch at Delta One lounges in JFK, LAX, Boston, and Seattle. By year-end, Delta One check-in will be available across all of our hubs.

我們行業領先地位的核心是堅持不懈地致力於提升客戶體驗。我們對旅程的每個階段進行投資，使達美航空的旅行更加無縫、個性化和優質，從而提升我們向客戶的價值主張。在地面上，我們正​​在收穫機場基礎設施​​的世代投資所帶來的收益。其中包括升級機場設施、現代化的天空俱樂部，並在甘迺迪國際機場、洛杉磯國際機場、波士頓和西雅圖的達美航空一號休息室推出。到年底，我們所有的樞紐機場都將提供 Delta One 登機服務。

We've also partnered with Uber -- to begin streamlining the airport pickup and drop-off experiences, enhancing convenience from curve to gate.

我們也與 Uber 合作，開始簡化機場接送服務，提高從轉彎到登機口的便利性。

In the year, we're continuing to expand premium seating and enhance service offerings, ensuring more customers can experience our most elevated products. Digitally, we're delivering a connected experience for SkyMiles members, with nearly 1,000 aircraft equipped with fast free Wi-Fi well more than all of our US competitors combined, our integrated platform is setting the standard for in-flight connectivity and personalization.

今年，我們將繼續擴大高級座位並增強服務，確保更多客戶能夠體驗我們最優質的產品。在數位領域，我們為 SkyMiles 會員提供互聯體驗，近 1,000 架飛機配備了快速免費 Wi-Fi，遠遠超過我們所有美國競爭對手的總和，我們的整合平台為機上連接和個人化樹立了標準。

Exclusive partnerships with American Express, Uber and most recently, YouTube extend SkyMiles further into our members' daily activities, deepening engagement, and preference for the Delta brand beyond the flight. And it's all powered by our people, delivering welcomed, elevated, and caring service that reinforces our industry leadership, sustains our durable revenue premium, and underpins our strong financial foundation.

與美國運通、Uber 以及最近與 YouTube 的獨家合作將「飛凡哩程常客計畫」進一步延伸到我們會員的日常活動中，加深了會員的參與度，並增強了會員在飛行之外對達美品牌的偏好。這一切都歸功於我們的員工，他們提供受歡迎、優質和貼心的服務，鞏固了我們的行業領導地位，維持了我們持久的收入溢價，並鞏固了我們強大的財務基礎。

In closing, our financial focus remains on profitable growth. Margin expansion and disciplined capital allocation, all aligned with the three to five year framework that we shared last November. As we enter the final stretch of our centennial year, I'm more optimistic than ever about Delta's future.

最後，我們的財務重點仍然是獲利成長。利潤率的擴大和嚴格的資本配置，都與我們去年 11 月分享的三到五年框架一致。當我們進入百年慶典的最後階段時，我對達美航空的未來比以往任何時候都更加樂觀。

Thank you for joining us today. And with that, I'll hand it over to Glen to discuss our commercial trends and demand, followed by Dan with the financial details.

感謝您今天加入我們。接下來，我將把時間交給 Glen 討論我們的商業趨勢和需求，然後由 Dan 來介紹財務細節。

Thank you, Ed, and good morning. I want to begin by thanking the Delta team for their outstanding commitment throughout the busy summer season and to our customers for their continued loyalty to Delta.

謝謝你，艾德，早安。首先，我要感謝達美航空團隊在整個繁忙的夏季所做的傑出貢獻，並感謝我們的客戶對達美航空的持續忠誠。

For the September quarter, revenue increased 4.1% year-over-year to $15.2 billion, a third quarter record and ahead of our guidance as momentum built through the quarter. Trends across our business are improving and customer preference for the Delta brand is showing up in our results.

9 月當季，營收年增 4.1%，達到 152 億美元，創下第三季新高，並且由於本季勢頭強勁，營收超出我們的預期。我們的業務趨勢正在改善，客戶對達美航空品牌的偏好也反映在我們的業績上。

Total unit revenue improved by 0.3% over last year. Importantly, domestic unit revenue turned positive with sequential improvement as the quarter progressed. This was supported by a main cabin inflection as industry supply moderated and demand improved materializing earlier than our initial expectations.

總單位收入比去年增長了0.3%。重要的是，隨著本季的進展，國內單位收入連續改善，轉為正值。由於行業供應放緩且需求改善比我們最初的預期更早實現，主艙位的變化對此提供了支持。

Internationally, profitability across all entities was strong with premium continuing to bolster results. Corporate sales trended positively throughout the quarter, up 8% over prior year with sequential improvement across all sectors. Domestic corporate sales grew double digits, including mid-teens growth in our coastal hubs. We see opportunities for further growth as corporate confidence rebuilds, reinforced by 90% of our most recent corporate survey respondents anticipating that their 2026 travel volumes will increase or remain steady year-over-year.

在國際上，所有實體的獲利能力都很強勁，溢價則持續支撐業績。整個季度企業銷售額呈現正面趨勢，比上年成長 8%，所有部門均有較上季改善。國內企業銷售額實現了兩位數成長，其中沿海樞紐的銷售額實現了十五六倍的成長。隨著企業信心的重建，我們看到了進一步成長的機會，我們最近的企業調查中有 90% 的受訪者預計，到 2026 年，他們的旅行量將同比增長或保持穩定，這進一步證實了這一點。

Diverse high-margin revenue streams grew double digits year-over-year and contributed 60% of total revenue. Within that, premium revenue grew 9% with improvement across all products driven by a strong demand and consistent investment in premium offerings.

多元化的高利潤收入來源年增兩位數，貢獻了總收入的 60%。其中，保費收入成長了 9%，受強勁需求和對保費產品的持續投資推動，所有產品均有所改善。

Loyalty revenue improved 9% and Travel adjacent products grew mid-teens as SkyMiles members engage beyond the flight and throughout our loyalty ecosystem. Cargo revenues increased 19%, driven by the Pacific. Maintenance, repair, and overhaul revenue grew more than 60% on higher volumes and timing of shipments.

隨著 SkyMiles 會員在飛行之外以及整個忠誠度生態系統中的參與，忠誠度收入提高了 9%，旅遊相關產品的收入也實現了十五六倍的增長。受太平洋航線的推動，貨運收入成長了 19%。由於出貨量增加和出貨時間縮短，維護、維修和大修收入增加了 60% 以上。

Delta's loyalty ecosystem continues to be a powerful driver of enterprise value. Anchored by the attractiveness of the SkyMiles program, a financially healthy, highly engaged member base, and our exclusive co-brand partnership with American Express. Co-brand holders are among our most valuable customers, traveling more often and spending more on Delta. While roughly one-third of active SkyMiles members hold a co-brand card today, we have further runway as both engagement and member penetration continue to rise.

達美航空的忠誠度生態系統持續成為企業價值的強大驅動力。憑藉 SkyMiles 計劃的吸引力、財務狀況良好、參與度高的會員基礎以及與美國運通的獨家聯合品牌合作夥伴關係。聯合品牌持有者是我們最有價值的客戶之一，他們旅行更頻繁，在達美航空上花費更多。雖然目前約有三分之一的活躍 SkyMiles 會員持有聯名卡，但隨著參與度和會員滲透率的不斷提高，我們還有更大的發展空間。

A key proof point is the sustained momentum on spend growth, which has outpaced other consumer credit cards by 2x over the last few years. During the quarter, spend grew at double-digit pace with new card acquisitions up year-over-year and a record mix of customers choosing the premium card. With that, remuneration from American Express increased 12% over prior year to $2 billion in the quarter, keeping us on track to deliver over $8 billion this year and advancing towards our long-term goal of $10 billion within the next few years.

一個關鍵的證明點是支出成長的持續勢頭，在過去幾年中，其成長速度是其他消費者信用卡的兩倍。本季度，消費支出以兩位數的速度增長，新卡購買量同比增長，選擇高級卡的客戶數量創下了紀錄。其中，本季來自美國運通的薪酬較上年同期成長 12%，達到 20 億美元，使我們預計在今年實現超過 80 億美元的目標，並在未來幾年內朝著 100 億美元的長期目標邁進。

Turning to the outlook. The environment continues to improve. Over the past six weeks, sales trends have accelerated across all geographies and in every advanced purchase window, positioning Delta to close the year from a position of strength. While we are monitoring potential impacts from the US government shutdown, we have not seen a material effect to date.

轉向展望。環境持續改善。在過去六週內，所有地區和每個提前購買窗口的銷售趨勢均有所加速，為達美航空在年底的強勁表現奠定了基礎。雖然我們正在監測美國政府關門可能帶來的影響，但迄今為止我們還沒有看到實質的影響。

For the December quarter, we expect total revenue to grow 2% to 4% year-over-year on top of last year's record performance with solidly profitable unit revenues.

對於 12 月季度，我們預計總收入將在去年創紀錄的業績基礎上同比增長 2% 至 4%，單位收入也將實現穩健的盈利。

Passenger RASM is showing healthy improvement sequentially, reflecting continued strength in domestic and a step change improvement in the transatlantic on firmer main cabin trends and corporate demand. At the same time, financial divergence across the industry has never been greater. As carriers prioritize earning -- their cost of capital and eliminate unprofitable flying, competitive capacity in our hubs is down year-over-year, and we expect a very healthy supply-demand balance across the industry into 2026.

乘客 RASM 環比呈現健康改善，反映出國內航線持續強勁，且跨大西洋航線在主艙趨勢和企業需求加強的推動下呈現階躍式改善。同時，整個產業的財務差距也達到了前所未有的程度。由於航空公司優先考慮盈利（即資本成本）並取消無利可圖的航班，我們樞紐的競爭能力逐年下降，我們預計到 2026 年整個行業的供需平衡將非常健康。

In closing, I'm very optimistic as we enter the final quarter, building our momentum and positioning Delta for continued top line growth and margin expansion into 2026.

最後，我非常樂觀地認為，隨著我們進入最後一個季度，我們將累積發展勢頭，並為達美航空在 2026 年繼續實現營收成長和利潤率擴張做好準備。

And with that, I'll turn it over to Dan to cover the financials.

說完這些，我將把財務事宜交給丹來處理。

Thank you, Glen, and good morning to everyone. Delta's competitive advantages drove another strong quarter as we continue to set the pace for the industry. Our teams are delivering operationally for our customers and driving efficiency. Year-to-date, we are outperforming the industry across on-time performance, completion factor, and Net Promoter Score. Our premium offerings, industry-leading loyalty programs, and elevated experiences we provide across the entire travel journey is driving increased customer preference for flying Delta and underpins our differentiated financial results.

謝謝你，格倫，大家早安。達美航空的競爭優勢推動了我們又一個強勁的季度，我們繼續引領產業發展。我們的團隊正在為客戶提供營運服務並提高效率。今年迄今為止，我們在準時履行率、完成率和淨推薦值方面均優於業界。我們在整個旅行過程中提供的優質服務、業界領先的忠誠度計劃和高級體驗，正在推動客戶越來越喜歡乘坐達美航空，並支撐我們差異化的財務表現。

In the September quarter, we delivered record third quarter revenue of $15.2 billion, with an operating margin of 11.2% and earnings of $1.71 per share. Non-fuel unit cost growth was approximately flat to prior year, bringing the year-to-date non-fuel unit cost growth to less than 2%. Consistent with our low single-digit guidance at the start of the year, even as we've reduced capacity after the summer peak to align the demand.

9 月季度，我們實現了創紀錄的第三季營收 152 億美元，營業利潤率為 11.2%，每股收益為 1.71 美元。非燃料單位成本成長與去年基本持平，年初至今非燃料單位成本成長不到 2%。儘管我們在夏季高峰之後減少了運力以滿足需求，但這與我們年初的低個位數預期一致。

I want to thank the entire Delta team for their hard work to achieve these results. Delta generated third quarter operating cash flow of $1.8 billion. And after reinvesting $1.1 billion into the business, we generated free cash flow of $830 million.

我要感謝整個達美航空團隊為取得這些成果所付出的辛勤努力。達美航空第三季的營運現金流為 18 億美元。在向該業務重新投資 11 億美元後，我們產生了 8.3 億美元的自由現金流。

On our capital structure, we continue to take an opportunistic approach. Last month, we successfully repriced our SkyMiles term loan, reducing the rate by 225 basis points. This demonstrating the strength of our balance sheet, and the attractiveness of Delta Credit. Strong cash generation is able to debt paydown of nearly $2 billion year-to-date with gross leverage ending the quarter at 2.4 times.

在我們的資本結構上，我們繼續採取機會主義的方法。上個月，我們成功重新定價了 SkyMiles 定期貸款，將利率降低了 225 個基點。這證明了我們資產負債表的強度以及 Delta Credit 的吸引力。強勁的現金產生能力使其年初至今能夠償還近 20 億美元的債務，本季末的總槓桿率為 2.4 倍。

Now turning to the outlook. For the December quarter, as Glen shared, we expect revenue growth of 2% to 4% year-over-year with positive unit revenue. On the cost side, disciplined execution supports non-fuel unit cost growth in low single digits, in line with our full year guidance. With that, we expect fourth quarter earnings of $1.60 to $1.90 per share and an operating margin of 10.5% to 12%.

現在談談展望。對於 12 月季度，正如 Glen 所說，我們預計收入將同比增長 2% 至 4%，單位收入將為正值。在成本方面，嚴格的執行支援非燃料單位成本以較低的個位數成長，符合我們的全年指引。因此，我們預計第四季度每股收益為 1.60 美元至 1.90 美元，營業利潤率為 10.5% 至 12%。

For the full year, this brings earnings per share of approximately $6, in the upper half of our guidance range we provided in July. On free cash flow, we are updating our guidance to $3.5 billion to $4 billion. This outlook is within our long-term target range, enables us to pay down debt, while returning cash to shareholders.

就全年而言，這將使每股收益達到約 6 美元，處於我們 7 月提供的指導範圍的上半部分。對於自由現金流，我們將預期更新為 35 億美元至 40 億美元。這一前景符合我們的長期目標範圍，使我們能夠償還債務，同時向股東返還現金。

Our capital allocation priorities remain unchanged, reinvesting where returns are strong, reducing debt, and maintaining our fortress investment-grade balance sheet, which was recently recognized by Fitch with a revised outlook from stable to positive during the quarter.

我們的資本配置重點保持不變，在回報強勁的領域進行再投資，減少債務，並維持我們穩健的投資級資產負債表，惠譽最近認可了這一點，並將本季度的展望從穩定調整為正面。

Our investments are focused on the customer experience, as Ed and Glen spoke about, and on driving efficiency through technology and our fleet. We continue to advance our fleet renewal strategy with approximately 40 aircraft deliveries this year and next. These additions drive meaningful value for our customers through expanded premium seating and for our shareholders through increased efficiency and greater scale among our key fleets.

正如 Ed 和 Glen 所說，我們的投資重​​點是客戶體驗，以及透過技術和車隊提高效率。我們將繼續推進機隊更新策略，今年和明年將交付約 40 架飛機。這些新增的航班透過擴大高級座位為我們的客戶創造了有意義的價值，並透過提高我們主要機隊的效率和擴大其規模為我們的股東創造了有意義的價值。

Looking into 2026 and beyond, our focus is on profitable growth and delivering long-term financial targets outlined at our Investor Day last November, including earnings growth, durable free cash flow, debt repayment, to drive sustained value for our shareholders.

展望 2026 年及以後，我們的重點是獲利成長和實現去年 11 月投資者日概述的長期財務目標，包括獲利成長、持久的自由現金流、債務償還，以推動股東的持續價值。

In closing, I want to extend my sincere thanks to the entire Delta team for their commitment to one another and to our customers. And with that, I'll turn it back to Julie for Q&A.

最後，我要向整個達美航空團隊表達最誠摯的感謝，感謝他們對彼此以及對我們客戶的承諾。說完這些，我會把話題交還給朱莉問答。

Thank you, Dan. Matthew, can you please remind the analysts how to enter the call queue and go to our first question from Duane Pfennigwerth of Evercore ISI.

謝謝你，丹。馬修，您能否提醒分析師如何進入呼叫佇列並回答來自 Evercore ISI 的 Duane Pfennigwerth 的第一個問題。

(Operator Instructions) Duane Pfennigwerth, Evercore ISI.

（操作員指示）Duane Pfennigwerth，Evercore ISI。

With respect to the strong improvement in cash flow year-over-year and operating cash flow, can you just expand on the drivers of that improvement? How much of that is just the working capital benefit of maybe the booking curve normalizing versus earlier in the year? Maybe there's some dynamics around MRO. Any thoughts you have would be helpful?

關於現金流和經營現金流年增率強勁改善，您能否詳細說明一下這種改善的驅動因素？其中有多少僅僅是預訂曲線與今年稍早相比正常化所帶來的營運資本利得？也許 MRO 周圍存在一些動態。有什麼想法會有幫助嗎？

Yeah, certainly, Duane, thank you for the question. Year-to-date, we're on track to where we were last year on similar earnings, and that even with actually a headwind as it relates to the booking curve as we talked about over the summer that spring and summer that compressed. It's starting to expand. We haven't yet gotten all that back. We expect more of that to materialize here in the fourth quarter.

是的，當然，杜安，謝謝你的提問。年初至今，我們的獲利情況與去年持平，儘管實際上面臨著與預訂曲線相關的阻力，正如我們在夏季、春季和夏季所討論的那樣，預訂曲線有所壓縮。它開始擴張。我們還沒有恢復這一切。我們預計第四季將會有更多這樣的情況出現。

And the underlying improvement to offset that is coming out of working capital. We built up a lot of just, I won't call it inefficiencies, but excess as we are rebuilding the airline and now is our time as we drive efficiency to work that off, and you're seeing that in working capital.

而抵銷此影響的根本改善來自於營運資本。我們累積了很多，我不會稱之為低效率，而是過剩，因為我們正在重建航空公司，現在是我們提高效率來解決這些問題的時候了，你可以在營運資本中看到這一點。

And then maybe, Glen, for my follow-up. One of the questions we got from a journalist this morning was can you put the corporate recovery in context, excluding any benefit from a CrowdStrike comp? In other words, are we fully back? How would you put this corporate recovery in context?

然後也許，格倫，我可以跟進一下。今天早上，一位記者向我們提出了一個問題：能否將 CrowdStrike 帶來的收益排除在企業復甦的背景之外？換句話說，我們完全恢復了嗎？您如何看待此次企業復甦？

Yeah. I think we're well beyond where the CrowdStrike impact was from last year, and we're seeing similar results to what we disclosed in the third quarter earnings moving into the 4Q. And I'd just remind you and other people on the call that while corporate revenues have recovered to 2019 levels and are actually slightly above those now that the number of passengers that are booking because fares are higher are still in the high 70s. So we think as business continues to normalize, we have a lot of runway to continue to expand the corporate demand.

是的。我認為我們已經遠遠超出了去年 CrowdStrike 的影響，我們看到的結果與我們在第三季收益中披露的結果類似，進入第四季度。我只是想提醒您和電話中的其他人，雖然公司收入已恢復到 2019 年的水平，並且實際上略高於現在的水平，但由於票價較高而預訂的乘客數量仍然在 70 多歲左右。因此我們認為，隨著業務持續正常化，我們有很大空間來繼續擴大企業需求。

Tom Fitzgerald, TD Cowen.

湯姆·菲茨杰拉德，TD Cowen。

I was wondering if you could unpack the improvements you're seeing in the domestic market and how much that might be unique to you, just given your exposure to higher income households?

我想知道您是否可以解釋一下您在國內市場看到的改善，以及考慮到您接觸的高收入家庭，這對您來說有多大的獨特性？

Well, certainly, I think our exposure to higher household income cohort has enhanced our relative position versus carriers that are catering to a more stressed, lower-to-middle income environment. So we'll see, as everybody else reports. I can only speak for Delta and the strength that we've seen and continuing to accelerate as we head into the fourth quarter.

嗯，當然，我認為，我們接觸到的高家庭收入群體增強了我們相對於那些服務於壓力更大、中低收入環境的運營商的相對地位。正如其他人所報道的，我們會看到。我只能代表達美航空發言，我們可以看到，隨著我們進入第四季度，達美航空的實力還在不斷增強。

Okay. That's really helpful. And then just on the same topic, I was wondering if you could unpack some of the mix shift benefit that you might see as we move into 2026 and 2027 as you take on delivery of new aircraft?

好的。這真的很有幫助。然後就同一主題而言，我想知道您是否可以解釋一下當我們進入 2026 年和 2027 年接收新飛機時可能會看到的一些混合轉變優勢？

Well, we continue to invest in the higher-end products, whether or not that's opening up new Delta One lounges or check-in areas. And so as we continue to take delivery, they come with a higher mix of premium products. And if you look next year, well, we haven't given any guidance, but most of our growth, if not almost all of it will be in the premium sectors.

嗯，我們將繼續投資高端產品，無論是否開設新的 Delta One 休息室或報到區。因此，隨著我們繼續接收貨物，他們帶來了更多種類的優質產品。如果你展望明年，我們還沒有給出任何指導，但我們的大部分成長，如果不是幾乎所有的成長，都將來自高端領域。

Catie O'Brien, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的凱蒂·奧布萊恩。

Maybe one for Dan. Not asking for 2026 guidance. But this year, your unit cost performance benefited from efficiency gains and growing into your workforce in your fleet and your airport assets. I guess what inning are we in that efficiency growth? And are there further tailwinds from this into next year?

也許給丹一個。不要求 2026 年的指導。但今年，您的單位成本績效受益於效率的提高以及機隊和機場資產員工隊伍的成長。我猜我們處於效率成長的哪個階段？明年是否還會出現進一步的順風？

Yeah. We talked a bunch about this at the Investor Day last November, and those -- all those trends are intact. We certainly are still in the early to middle innings where we believe over the term, we can continue to drive efficiency by growing into that workforce, continuing to get growth in the generational airports that we built that are actually in our run rate. The investment that we've made in fleet as we get scale and efficiency as we continue on the fleet renewal.

是的。我們在去年 11 月的投資者日上討論了很多這個問題，所有這些趨勢都完好無損。我們當然仍處於初期到中期階段，我們相信，從長遠來看，我們可以透過發展勞動力來繼續提高效率，繼續實現我們建造的、實際上符合我們運行率的代際機場的成長。隨著我們繼續更新船隊，我們對船隊的投資也隨之擴大，效率也隨之提高。

And then the other element that we talked about is just the role of technology and that it will have in regard to enabling our workforce and giving them tools, and transparency just be more efficient. And we think that is certainly in the very, very early innings of the unlock and we have years of that in front of us.

然後，我們討論的另一個因素是科技的作用，它將使我們的勞動力更加強大，為他們提供工具，並且透明度更高。我們認為，這肯定處於解鎖的非常早期階段，我們還有數年的時間。

Yeah, That's great. And then my second one is actually a bit of a follow-up to Tom's. I wanted to dig in a bit on domestic main cabin turning positive specifically. Can you give a little more color there?

是的，太棒了。我的第二個其實是對湯姆的後續。我想深入研究國內主艙的具體轉好情況。你能提供更多一些顏色嗎？

I know one driver of that is that domestic main cabin seats for Delta are down year-over-year. Can you tell us by how much? And then maybe the converse of that, I know back in August, and I was in Atlanta, we spoke about how you're adding -- you're doing some retrofits to add incremental Delta Comfort seats this year.

我知道其中一個原因是達美航空的國內主艙座位數量較去年同期下降。你能告訴我們多少嗎？然後也許情況正好相反，我知道早在八月份，我在亞特蘭大，我們談到了你們如何增加——你們正在進行一些改造，以在今年增加增量 Delta Comfort 座椅。

What is this year's retrofits do for premium seat mix into next year? I know you said most of next year's growth driven by -- driven by premium fees, but just wondering specifically how the retrofits contribute to that as well?

今年的改造對明年的高級座椅組合有何影響？我知道您說過明年的大部分成長將由保費推動，但我還想知道改造具體對此有何貢獻？

Right. Certainly, as we continue to -- the premiumization, if you will, of the Delta ecosystem is really dependent on two things. One is the retrofits, which you mentioned, which accounts for probably about 25% to 30% of the incremental premium seats. And then new aircraft deliveries that are continuing to come with a higher mix of premium as they roll out of the factory. So both those contributing to the continuation of improving the experience for our customers.

正確的。當然，隨著我們繼續下去——如果你願意的話，達美航空生態系統的高端化實際上取決於兩件事。一是您所提到的改裝，這大概佔增量高級座位的 25% 到 30%。隨著新飛機出廠，其交付價格也不斷上漲。因此，這兩者都有助於持續改善我們的客戶體驗。

And then lastly, on main cabin demand, we have seen an inflection. Our main cabin seats are down slightly. They're not down significantly from last year, so relatively flat. But what we have seen is the rationalization of capacity in many of our hubs. As a matter of fact, if you look forward through November, capacity in almost all of our hubs is down year-over-year from competitive sets, which is allowing us to rationalize the seats that are there and continue to drive unit revenues up.

最後，就主艙需求而言，我們看到了改變。我們的主艙座位稍微往下一點。與去年相比，下降幅度並不大，因此相對穩定。但我們看到，許多樞紐的運力都已合理化。事實上，如果展望 11 月份，我們幾乎所有樞紐的運力都比競爭對手的運力同比有所下降，這使我們能夠合理安排現有座位，繼續提高單位收入。

Jamie Baker, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的傑米貝克。

So for Glen, premium revenue growth exceeded that of Maine cabin by 13 points. It's obviously a new record and I guess my question is a bit of a follow-up to Catie's. I mean, obviously, part of the outcome is driven by weakness in low-end consumer. But can you drill down a bit deeper into actual changes in consumer behavior. So for example, if you look at SkyMiles member behavior, how much premium growth is driven by your more affluent members taking more trips versus maybe less affluent players trading up to a better experience.

因此，對於格倫航空而言，其高端收入成長比緬因航空的客艙收入成長高出 13 個百分點。這顯然是一張新唱片，我想我的問題有點像 Catie 的問題的後續。我的意思是，顯然，部分結果是由於低端消費者的疲軟造成的。但您能否更深入了解消費者行為的實際變化。舉例來說，如果你觀察一下 SkyMiles 會員的行為，你會發現保費增長有多少是由較富裕的會員進行更多次旅行所推動的，而可能是較不富裕的會員通過升級來獲得更好的體驗所推動的。

There seem to be so many moving pieces to explain the 9% rise in premium, the 4% contraction in Maine, we obviously know the outcome is great. But any further comment on the specific building blocks would be helpful?

似乎有很多因素可以解釋保費上漲 9% 和緬因州 4% 的萎縮，我們顯然知道結果是好的。但是對具體構建模組的任何進一步評論都會有幫助嗎？

Well, Jamie, I think we've been outlining this for many years that we think that premium still has a long runway. And as you know, following this industry for a long time, we were not selling premium seats 10 or 15 years ago. We were giving them away.

嗯，傑米，我想我們已經概述了這一點很多年了，我們認為高端市場仍然有很長的路要走。如你所知，我們長期關注這個行業，10 年或 15 年前我們還沒有出售高級座位。我們把它們贈送出去了。

And the reengineering of the whole purchase process where we made them much more affordable and much more attainable has allowed people to buy up into those categories. And we've always said that we aren't really at the end state in terms of getting the distribution systems where we need them to be -- to make sure that those products are being displayed to end consumers or agencies the way that they need to be, and that's been a long journey, too.

我們重新設計了整個購買流程，使這些產品更實惠且更容易取得，讓人們能夠購買這些類別的產品。我們一直說，在建立我們需要的分銷系統方面，我們還沒有真正達到最終狀態——確保這些產品以需要的方式展示給最終消費者或代理商，這也是一個漫長的過程。

So yes, it's been a transformation. And yes, all of the above are true, that people are attaching to these products, and then the repeat rate on them is incredibly high. And I think in previous calls, I've equated it to the car that you drive today, is it better than the first car you had. The answer is probably yes, and you don't see many people going back to cars that are worse. And I think once people get used to traveling in a certain product, whether it's Comfort+, Delta Premium Select or Delta One, they tend not to go back.

是的，這是一個轉變。是的，以上都是事實，人們對這些產品產生了依賴，並且重複購買率非常高。我認為在之前的通話中，我將其比作您今天駕駛的汽車，它是否比您擁有的第一輛車更好。答案可能是肯定的，而且你不會看到很多人再買品質較差的汽車。我認為，一旦人們習慣了乘坐某種產品旅行，無論是 Comfort+、Delta Premium Select 還是 Delta One，他們往往就不會再使用回去了。

The retention rates are in the mid-80s. And so the intent to repurchase very high, continuing to expand the availability of the products, the price points on the products, and this is a journey, a long journey we're on. So I think it's a great question. And I think we see that there are many, many more opportunities in premium as in the coming years.

保留率在 80% 左右。因此，重新購買的意願非常高，我們將繼續擴大產品的供應量、產品的價格點，這是一段旅程，一段漫長的旅程。所以我認為這是一個很好的問題。我認為，未來幾年，高端市場將會出現更多機會。

Jamie, if I could add to that. A couple of things. There's also -- you need to look at the geographies, right? You look at the investment we've made in LA, Boston, and New York, the coastal, that's in Seattle.

傑米，如果我可以補充一點的話。有幾件事。還有——您需要考慮地理位置，對嗎？看看我們在洛杉磯、波士頓、紐約、沿海地區以及西雅圖所做的投資。

That's where a considerable amount of premium lives. And Delta historically wasn't as big in those markets as we are now. And not only have we moved in there, we've built generational experiences through the airports, the Delta One lounges. Corporate travel is our bread and butter. We are the very best at it, best serving corporate trial is premium, right?

那裡有相當一部分保費收入。從歷史上看，達美航空在這些市場上的規模並不像我們現在這麼大。我們不僅搬進了那裡，還透過機場和 Delta One 休息室建立了代際體驗。商務旅行是我們賴以生存的根本。我們在這方面做得最好，最好的服務企業試用是優質的，對嗎？

And so all of these things go in, as you said in your question, there's a lot to that. But we see a considerable amount of continued momentum forward in premium. And the question we get from customers all the time is, when can we get more?

所以所有這些事情，正如你在問題中所說的那樣，有很多事情要做。但我們看到高端市場仍保持著相當大的持續成長動能。客戶常問我們的問題是，什麼時候我們能獲得更多？

Well, thanks for that gentlemen. And actually leads to my follow-up. What does the end diagram look like between premium and corporate? So if JPMorgan buys me a main cabin ticket to Miami, that's clearly going to show up as corporate for you. It's going to be on our discount. But if JPMorgan buys me Delta One to Los Angeles, I guess that counts as both corporate and premium?

好吧，謝謝兩位先生。並且實際上引導了我的後續行動。進階版和企業版之間的最終圖表是什麼樣的？因此，如果摩根大通給我買了一張去邁阿密的經濟艙機票，那麼這對你來說顯然就體現為公司行為。我們將給予折扣。但是，如果摩根大通為我購買了飛往洛杉磯的 Delta One 航班，我想這算是公司機票和高級機票吧？

Yes. Of course.

是的。當然。

Could you quantify what that overlap --

你能量化重疊部分嗎--

What percentage of premium is corporate?

企業保費佔比是多少？

Yeah.

是的。

It's probably 30% to 40%. We can get the exact number. More and more -- and I think this is the exciting part for us. If you think about one of the issues we had many years back, the difference between yields on corporate and high-yield leisure were very, very different. And so it was a steep cliff if you weren't filling your planes with corporate on what you had to fill them with. And now those adverts. In some cases, corporate personal leisure is higher than corporate these days.

大概是30%到40%。我們可以獲得確切的數字。越來越多——我認為這對我們來說是令人興奮的部分。如果你回想一下我們多年前遇到的一個問題，你會發現企業收益和高收益休閒收益之間的差異非常非常大。因此，如果你不給你的飛機配備公司所需的物資，那麼你的飛機就會面臨巨大的損失。現在還有那些廣告。在某些情況下，如今企業的個人休閒比企業的休閒更高。

So it's given us a really nice ability to manage. And one of the issues we've had with our team that we've been working on is sometimes we run out of seats for corporate, and we have to go and put more seats in market because corporate was getting squeezed out by higher-yielding leisure.

因此它賦予了我們非常好的管理能力。我們團隊一直在努力解決的一個問題是，有時我們為企業提供的座位不夠了，我們必須去市場上增加更多的座位，因為企業座位被收益更高的休閒座位所擠佔。

Excellent. And if I could just squeeze in a third follow-up just because you brought that point up, you had said 2027 was the year in which premium would overtake main cabin. Any reason we wouldn't see that occur in a quarter or two next year?

出色的。如果您提到了這一點，我可以再補充第三個問題，您說過 2027 年是高級艙超越主艙的一年。有什麼原因導致我們不會在明年一兩個季度內看到這種情況發生？

I think you will.

我想你會的。

Conor Cunningham, Melius Research.

康納·坎寧安（Conor Cunningham），Melius Research。

Glen, you had a chance to talk about your first car. I think it was the Rambler. I think you referenced that a couple of months --

格倫，你有機會談論你的第一輛車。我認為那是 Rambler。我認為你提到過幾個月--

It was Rambler Classic.

這是 Rambler Classic。

Maybe we can stick with the premium discussion because there still seems to be a fair under appreciation for what's going on here, I think, out there. So like obviously, the revenue growth on premium versus Main Cabin has been very, very strong for quite some time. But I was hoping you could talk about the profitability of the segments of the cabin. I think that -- I mean -- should we look at the gap in just in terms of the growth overall as a good benchmark for the differences in overall contribution.

也許我們可以繼續討論溢價問題，因為我認為，對於這裡發生的事情，人們似乎仍然沒有充分認識到這一點。因此，顯然，高級艙與主艙相比的收入成長在相當長的一段時間內一直非常強勁。但我希望您能談談客艙各部分的獲利能力。我認為——我的意思是——我們是否應該僅從整體成長的角度來看待差距，並將其作為衡量整體貢獻差異的良好基準。

Just -- it just -- there seems to be another step function change coming on seat mix. So it just seems like there's a further step function change coming on profitability as well. So if you could just talk about the segments on a profitability standpoint, that would be helpful.

只是——只是——座位組合似乎又將發生一步功能變化。因此，看起來獲利能力也即將發生進一步的階躍函數變化。因此，如果您能從盈利能力的角度談論各個細分市場，那將會很有幫助。

I just think that when you think about what's different and what's changed over the last 10 or 15 years, the premium products used to be lost leaders and now they're the highest margin products. That's really the headline. And really into sending order of their premium misses their margin. So the best margins are in the most premium products and you just work your way down.

我只是認為，當你思考過去 10 年或 15 年裡有什麼不同、有什麼變化時，你會發現優質產品曾經是虧本銷售的產品，而現在它們是利潤最高的產品。這才是真正的標題。而真正投入發送訂單的溢價卻錯過了他們的利潤。因此，利潤最高的是那些最優質的產品，而你只需逐步降低利潤。

Now we've had some convergence on Delta premiums like, which has actually been so popular as we've introduced it, that the margins are starting to converge with D1 and we're working on separating those back out again, but really exciting opportunities. These are relatively new products for the airlines. We've only had them and we've only been selling them and we've only been selling them in widely available distribution for less than 10 years.

現在，我們在 Delta 保費方面已經取得了一些進展，自從我們推出 Delta 保費以來，它實際上非常受歡迎，利潤率開始與 D1 趨同，我們正在努力將它們再次分離出來，但這確實是令人興奮的機會。對於航空公司來說，這些都是相對較新的產品。我們擁有它們、銷售它們並且以廣泛分銷的方式銷售它們不到 10 年。

Interesting. Great. Maybe on corporate, just to follow-up to Duane's question in general, I got a similar question as well. Like -- it's -- so I know that there's some crowd strike noise within it, but the 8% number is obviously a lot. And if you look at some of the other travel industries out there, they're not calling out a game like that.

有趣的。偉大的。也許在公司方面，只是為了跟進 Duane 的一般問題，我也遇到了類似的問題。就像——它是——所以我知道其中有一些群體罷工的聲音，但 8% 這個數字顯然很多。如果你看看其他一些旅遊業，你會發現他們並沒有推出這樣的遊戲。

So to me -- it seems like you're driving additional share gains? Or maybe you could just talk about how the overall market is expanding in general and how you're continuing to drive share within it?

那麼對我來說——這似乎表明您正在推動額外的市場份額成長？或者您可以談談整個市場總體上是如何擴張的，以及您如何繼續推動市場份額的擴大？

Well, first of all, I'd like to call out our sales team there, the best sales team in the industry and is doing an amazing job for us. And clearly, we are continuing to take share on the margin. So we monitor our share and then we'll reconcile that later. But I think we're seeing mild gains in total share and certainly higher gains in revenue share. But yes, there's a lot of opportunity as we look forward here -- is that corporations are still not traveling into volumes, they did pre-pandemic.

嗯，首先，我想讚揚一下我們的銷售團隊，他們是業內最好的銷售團隊，為我們做出了出色的工作。顯然，我們將繼續佔據邊際份額。因此，我們會監控我們的份額，然後稍後進行核對。但我認為，我們看到總份額略有增長，收入份額肯定有更高的增長。但是的，我們展望未來時，這裡有很多機會——企業的出行量仍然沒有達到疫情前水準。

And so as that travel continues to come back, and I think we could look at third quarter sales and CrowdStrike out of it. We're still in the double digits.

因此，隨著旅遊業的持續復甦，我認為我們可以從中看到第三季的銷售額和 CrowdStrike。我們仍處於兩位數。

I think what I'd add on corporate because I've heard it a couple of times that somehow it might be driven by CrowdStrike. Actually, that 8% September was higher than 8%. It was 9%, and that didn't have crowds so I get it. So I think that's -- there's real momentum here with corporate is across all the segments. This hasn't anything to do with the technology outage.

我想補充一下公司方面的內容，因為我已經聽過幾次了，它可能是由 CrowdStrike 推動的。事實上，9 月的 8% 高於 8%。當時的人數是 9%，而且人也不多，所以我懂。所以我認為，各領域的企業都呈現了真正的發展動能。這與技術故障無關。

Yeah. And one other thing Conor I'd add is, corporate suspended travel in the early part of the year. So there is also what was some level of pent-up demand to get back out and I don't think you can underestimate that. I don't see that stopping by the way, because our outlook when we ask the corporates, they are going to continue to grow. But there was clearly for four or five months this spring, we were not seeing any corporate growth, and then they all got back on the road together at the same time.

是的。康納，我想補充的另一件事是，公司在今年年初暫停了旅行。因此，也存在著一定程度的被壓抑的需求，我認為你不能低估這一點。順便說一句，我不認為這種情況會停止，因為當我們詢問企業時，我們的前景是，它們將繼續成長。但今年春天有四、五個月的時間，我們顯然沒有看到任何企業成長，然後他們又同時回到了正軌。

(multiple speakers) up into this week are staying at or above the numbers we disclosed with (inaudible).

（多位發言者）截至本週，數據仍維持在我們揭露的數字之上（聽不清楚）。

Andrew Didora, Bank of America.

美國銀行的安德魯·迪多拉。

Maybe, Glen, maybe switching gears a little bit and speaking about Atlantic here. Obviously, RASM down 7% in 3Q. I know you spoke about a step function change happening here, but I doubt you're expecting to get back to flat in 4Q. But maybe could you speak to how Atlantic performed throughout 3Q and what you need to see in order for that entity to climb back to flat unit revenue?

格倫，也許我們可以稍微換個話題，在這裡談談大西洋。顯然，RASM 在第三季下降了 7%。我知道您談到了這裡發生的階躍函數變化，但我懷疑您是否期望在第四季度恢復平穩。但是，您能否談談大西洋資本在第三季度的表現如何，以及您需要看到什麼才能使該公司的單位收入回升至平穩水平？

Well, yeah, I think third quarter was clearly disappointing, and I think it was a host of things. Some of it might have been our fault in terms of where we thought the booking curves would be and how we held out for higher fares and -- so next year, we're going to be much more aggressive in building a solid book earlier in the year.

嗯，是的，我認為第三季度顯然令人失望，我認為這是由多種因素造成的。部分原因可能是我們的錯誤，例如我們對預訂曲線的預測以及我們如何堅持更高的票價——因此，明年我們將更加積極地在年初建立穩固的預訂量。

I think the other thing was the booking as Ed refers to it as the spring boom. When the spring boom was happening, and everybody got a little nervous when tariffs were introduced, that was the booking window for the latter part of the summer. So that had some impact on main cabin as well. And then finally, I think we've discussed earlier is that, given that the cohort on the premium products is really is in their 60s, the fall has become a relatively more attractive period than the summer in terms of high-yield leisure. So it's a combination of all three.

我認為另一件事是預訂，正如 Ed 所說的那樣，是春季熱潮。當春季經濟繁榮時，當關稅出台時每個人都有點緊張，這是夏季後半段的預訂窗口。所以這也對主艙產生了一定的影響。最後，我想我們之前已經討論過了，考慮到高端產品的消費群體確實是 60 多歲，就高收益休閒而言，秋季比夏季更具吸引力。所以這是三者的結合。

So we're going to attack it multifaceted next year. I think we're going to hopefully not have any kind of swoon in the whole demand set. We're going to be a little bit more aggressive in terms of Main Cabin and filling up those cabins earlier in the booking curve.

因此，明年我們將從多方面著手解決這個問題。我認為我們希望整個需求不會有任何低迷。我們將在主艙方面採取更積極的措施，並在預訂曲線的早期階段填滿這些艙位。

And then we're going to adjust our capacity to make sure that we're not creating the church for Easter Sunday in July and August. We’re going to flatten that out more for the summer out of season to have a better distribution of capacity.

然後我們將調整我們的容量，以確保我們不會在七月和八月為復活節星期天建造教堂。我們將在夏季淡季進一步簡化此流程，以便更好地分配運能。

That's interesting. And then on, since you spoke about kind of margins within the cabin, curious if you'd be willing to rank your geographies by margin performance thus far in 2025? And maybe how you expect that to change, if at all, heading into 4Q in 2026?

那很有意思。然後，既然您談到了機艙內的利潤率，那麼您是否願意根據 2025 年迄今為止的利潤率表現對您所在的地區進行排名？您預計到 2026 年第四季這種情況將會發生怎樣的變化？

Historically, we had domestic premium and in international. And I'm not going to go beyond international as a whole. But this year, they're relatively similar. They've converged on each other, and we're going to have a race. We've got our domestic for '26, our domestic improvement versus our international improvement, and we're going to compete them against each other and see which one can generate the higher returns next year.

從歷史上看，我們擁有國內和國際優質服務。我不會超越整個國際範圍。但今年，它們相對相似。他們已經聚集在一起，我們將要進行一場比賽。我們已經制定了 26 年的國內計劃，我們的國內改進與國際改進並存，我們將相互競爭，看看哪一個可以在明年產生更高的回報。

Mike Linenberg, Deutsche Bank.

德意志銀行的麥克‧林伯格。

Glen, going back to shut down. If you sort of think back to 2018, 2019, when did it start to [fight]? I mean we're day 9 in. And what -- can you recall what that financial impact was to Delta?

格倫，回去關閉。如果你回想一下 2018 年、2019 年，什麼時候開始[鬥爭]？我的意思是我們已經進入第 9 天了。您能回想一下這對達美航空的財務影響是什麼嗎？

We said at the time, it was a little bit less than -- it was about $1 million today. And now it's less than $1 million a day for various reasons. One is that DCA travel was off even with the [before]. So -- so DCA has not been a real driver in terms of revenue improvement this year. So less than $1 million a day now, and it was about $1 million a day previously.

我們當時說，這比現在的 100 萬美元少一點。而現在由於各種原因，每天的收入不到 100 萬美元。一是即使有[前]。因此，DCA 在今年的營收成長方面並沒有發揮真正的推動作用。所以現在每天不到 100 萬美元，而以前每天大約是 100 萬美元。

Great. And then just a second quick one here. I thought it was interesting you called out Austin in your release, clearly non-hub flying, historically, non-hub flying tended to be lower margin, RASM-dilutive. What's changed? What makes the Delta product -- maybe I'm answering the question, I'll leave it to you.

偉大的。然後這裡再簡單說一下。我認為您在新聞稿中提到奧斯汀很有趣，顯然是非樞紐飛行，從歷史上看，非樞紐飛行的利潤率往往較低，RASM 稀釋性較高。有什麼變化？是什麼讓 Delta 產品如此——也許我正在回答這個問題，我會把它留給你。

Why is it different this time?

這次為什麼不一樣？

Thank you.

謝謝。

I think we used to look at the airline at a route level, but that wasn't really thinking about what's inside the minds of customers. And what makes customers choose Delta over a different carrier. And I think the answer is relevance, right? If we don't -- if we're not relevant, we cannot acquire the SkyMiles. We cannot acquire the [frequent flyer], the credit cards.

我認為我們過去常常從航線層面來看待航空公司，但並沒有真正考慮顧客的想法。是什麼讓客戶選擇達美航空而不是其他航空公司呢？我認為答案是相關性，對嗎？如果我們不這樣做——如果我們不相關，我們就無法獲得 SkyMiles。我們無法取得[飛行常客]信用卡。

And so the ecosystem, you have to have relevance. And that's why it's important for us to have focus cities. And those focus cities have been quite profitable for us, sometimes exceeding that of the hubs. And we're continuing to invest in focus cities. We don't have a lot of them, but the ones we do have, we've chosen for specific reasons.

因此，生態系必須具有相關性。這就是為什麼重點城市對我們來說很重要。這些重點城市為我們帶來了豐厚的利潤，有時甚至超過了樞紐城市。我們將繼續對重點城市進行投資。我們擁有的並不多，但我們選擇的那些都是出於特定的原因。

And I say Austin we've chosen because we don't have a Texas Hub. Everybody else has Texas hub, except Delta. And as you know, Texas is a -- in and of itself is a huge revenue market.

我說我們選擇奧斯汀是因為我們沒有德州的樞紐。除達美航空外，其他所有航空公司的樞紐均為德克薩斯州。如你所知，德州本身就是一個巨大的收入市場。

So seeing those opportunities, looking at the demographics, looking at the GDP of generation for these cities and saying where do we need to have a relevant offer so that people will join our SkyMiles program. They will join our -- and get our credit cards, and we can produce relevance.

因此，看到這些機會，看看人口統計數據，看看這些城市的 GDP，然後說我們需要在哪裡提供相關的優惠，以便人們加入我們的 SkyMiles 計劃。他們將加入我們——並獲得我們的信用卡，我們就能產生相關性。

Sheila Kahyaoglu, Jefferies.

Sheila Kahyaoglu，傑富瑞集團。

I want to maybe follow up on the Atlantic comments. So two questions there. How do we think about Atlantic capacity next year, Glen, you mentioned more evenly dispersed. I guess how are you thinking about that? And maybe secondly, given your competitor just announced some new additions, how are you thinking about competitive capacity, your own network planning as well as the A330, 350 product?

我可能想跟進《大西洋月刊》的評論。所以有兩個問題。格倫，您提到了更均勻分佈，我們如何看待明年大西洋的運力。我猜你對此有何看法？其次，鑑於您的競爭對手剛剛宣布了一些新產品，您如何看待競爭力、您自己的網路規劃以及 A330、350 產品？

Well, I think our product is best in class in the transatlantic. We continue to monitor our relative performance in terms of Net Promoter Scores. And I think it's got -- it's leading right now, and it's going to get much better as we continue to deliver new airplanes with the Delta One suites and with the enhanced Delta Premium Select and larger Delta C+ cabin. So I'm really excited about the product that we're putting in market.

嗯，我認為我們的產品是跨大西洋最好的。我們將繼續監控淨推薦值的相對錶現。我認為它現在處於領先地位，而且隨著我們繼續提供配備 Delta One 套房、增強型 Delta Premium Select 和更大的 Delta C+ 客艙的新飛機，它將會變得更好。所以我對我們推出市場的產品感到非常興奮。

We've chosen not to fly narrow-bodies in the transatlantic because of product and brand issues. And so we're not going to go in that direction. And -- but next year's capacity, I don't know. I mean I think it's early in the game, not everybody has announced what they're going to fly. And usually, everybody announces what they're going to fly, not what they're not going to fly.

由於產品和品牌問題，我們選擇不搭乘窄體飛機飛跨大西洋航班。所以我們不會朝那個方向走。但我不知道明年的產能是多少。我的意思是，我認為現在還處於遊戲初期，並不是每個人都宣布了他們要飛行什麼。通常情況下，每個人都會宣布他們要飛行什麼，而不是不飛行什麼。

And so that usually follows after what we're going to fly next year. So we'll see how it all shakes out. I think it's going to be probably low single digits. And as far as our summer will be probably in the very, very low single digits growth at all in the very peak months of July and August with a slightly higher shoulder season, which is becoming more peaky.

這通常是在我們明年的飛行計劃之後進行的。因此我們將拭目以待事情將如何發展。我認為這個數字很可能是低個位數。就我們的夏季而言，在 7 月和 8 月這兩個高峰月份，成長率可能非常低，只有個位數，而平季的成長率會略高一些，高峰期會更多。

Savi Syth, Raymond James.

薩維西斯、雷蒙德詹姆斯。

I wonder if you could share what you're seeing on the Latin America side, perhaps kind of broken out by [international] and long haul?

我想知道您是否可以分享一下您在拉丁美洲方面看到的情況，也許是按[國際]和長途進行細分？

Latin America and long haul.

拉丁美洲和長途航線。

Yes. Long haul has been very solid for us. It's -- it comes into season in the winter. It's looking for a very good strong winter season. Short haul has been a mixed bag. Caribbean doing well. Mexican beach is under a little pressure, but all still very profitable for us. So continuing to make investments in those regions.

是的。長途旅行對我們來說非常穩定。它的季節是在冬季。人們期待著一個非常好的強勁冬季。短途運輸的情況好壞參半。加勒比海地區表現良好。墨西哥海灘承受著一些壓力，但對我們來說仍然非常有利可圖。因此繼續在這些地區進行投資。

That's helpful. And if I might on the management side, (technical difficulty) do you expect 2026 to be above or below in terms of heavy [maintenance] events? And setting that aside, like what do you see in terms of inflation [on maintenance parts]? Is that getting better?

這很有幫助。如果可以從管理方面來說的話，（技術難度）您預計 2026 年的重大（維護）事件數量會高於還是低於這個數字？撇開這一點不談，你對通貨膨脹的看法[關於維修零件]？有好轉嗎？

Savi, we apologize. We weren't able to hear you clearly on this side. I know it related to 2026, but I couldn't hear the context of the question. Could you repeat it?

薩維，我們很抱歉。我們這邊聽不清楚你的聲音。我知道它與 2026 年有關，但我聽不清楚問題的背景。你能重複一遍嗎？

Sorry about that. Just on the maintenance side, do you expect 2026 to have kind of more or less heavy maintenance events and beyond the events, just on inflation, just what are you seeing on the maintenance and parts? I mean is that improving from kind of highway levels?

很抱歉。僅在維護方面，您是否預計 2026 年會出現更多或更少的重型維護事件？除了這些事件之外，僅在通貨膨脹方面，您在維護和零件方面看到了什麼？我的意思是，這是否比高速公路水平有所改善？

Yeah. We're still -- we're in the early stages of our planning for 2026. So we haven't worked through all our capacity and maintenance. More to come on that as we work through the fall here. As it relates to inflation, yes, I think that's still one part of the supply chain, both as it relates to material availability, to repair components.

是的。我們仍處於 2026 年規劃的早期階段。因此，我們還沒有用盡所有的能力和維護工作。隨著我們度過秋季，我們將對此進行更多討論。就通貨膨脹而言，是的，我認為這仍然是供應鏈的一部分，既與材料可用性有關，也與維修零件有關。

All those have had inflation above the normal. They're coming more in line as the industry continues to get better, but it's got a long ways to go. We've said that part of the supply chain is multiyear in nature as it relates to the opportunities in front of it.

所有這些國家的通貨膨脹率都高於正常水準。隨著產業不斷進步，他們也越來越趨於一致，但還有很長的路要走。我們說過，供應鏈的一部分本質上是多年的，因為它與它面前的機會有關。

Any aspect of it, you can look at the turn times and performance are still not at levels that we experienced in that '17, '18, '19 perspective. And as those come more in line and get healthier, you're going to see greater efficiency out of that.

從任何方面來看，你都可以看到週轉時間和表現仍然沒有達到我們在 17、18、19 年所經歷的水平。隨著這些變得更加有序和健康，你會看到更高的效率。

Scott Group, Wolfe Research.

斯科特集團、沃爾夫研究公司。

The fourth quarter earnings guidance is basically the same as Q3 earnings. And we've never really seen that before. I guess if you exclude CrowdStrike last year. I guess, I'm trying to understand, do you think this is just the new seasonality that makes Q4 a lot stronger? Or would you say maybe that you under-earned in Q3 and maybe it's some of both. I think the implications for how to think about next year would be different based on how you think about that dynamic?

第四季獲利預期與第三季獲利預期基本相同。我們以前從未真正見過這種情況。我想如果你排除去年的 CrowdStrike 的話。我想，我試圖理解，您是否認為這只是新的季節性因素，使得第四季表現更加強勁？或者你會說也許你在第三季的收入不足，或者兩者兼而有之。我認為，根據您對這種動態的看法，對明年的看法會有所不同？

Yeah. Fourth quarter, it's actually at or slightly better than third quarter. And I think it's being driven by strong premium demands and corporate travel in season. So we have a nice long season. If you remember, last year, we had the election and in the October period, we had the country kind of froze right before the election and unlocked a little bit after the election, but we had that period.

是的。第四季實際上與第三季持平或略好於第三季。我認為這是由旺季的高端需求和商務旅行所推動的。所以我們度過了一個愉快的漫長賽季。如果你還記得的話，去年我們舉行了選舉，在十月期間，整個國家在選舉前處於一種凍結狀態，選舉後才稍微放鬆下來，但我們確實經歷了那段時期。

We also have some favorability in terms of the calendar. So I think fourth quarter is as long as business is traveling is a very strong quarter for us.

我們在日曆方面也有一些好感。因此我認為，只要業務正常進行，第四季對我們來說就是非常強勁的一個季度。

And I think in the third quarter, particularly in the transatlantic, we are going to strive to do better in next year's third quarter because we think we have some opportunity should we had -- if we had to replay that to improve our results on the margin.

我認為在第三季度，特別是在跨大西洋地區，我們將努力在明年第三季度做得更好，因為我們認為我們有一些機會——如果我們必須重演這一點，以提高我們的利潤率。

Okay. So maybe some of both. And then about a point of the revenue growth in Q3 was from MRO, maybe a little help from cargo. Is that sustainable into Q4 and going forward that MRO strength?

好的。所以也許兩者皆有。第三季的營收成長大約有一部分來自 MRO，也許還有一點來自貨運的幫助。這種 MRO 優勢能否持續到第四季並繼續保持？

The MRO over the long term, yes, you're going to see it. You won't see it every quarter at 60% plus. I'd say both the second and third quarter were quite strong as it related to MRO for the year. You think of it more in that 20% to 30% range, but we would like to see many years of MRO growth well above the growth of the core airline and being double digit. But you won't see it at those levels.

從長遠來看，MRO 是可以的，您會看到它。你不會看到每季都出現 60% 以上的成長。我想說第二季和第三季的表現都相當強勁，因為它與今年的 MRO 有關。您認為其成長率應該在 20% 到 30% 之間，但我們希望看到 MRO 的多年成長率遠高於核心航空公司的成長率，並達到兩位數。但你不會在那些層面上看到它。

You'll see much, actually, I think as you -- fourth quarter, it's probably closer to flat year-over-year.

實際上，我認為你會看到很多——第四季度，它可能與去年同期持平。

And on cargo, great third quarter and shout out to our cargo team. I think they did a fabulous job. We have seen some, I'd say, choppiness as we enter the fourth quarter, and we'll see how that -- what the final result is, but I wouldn't expect that the 19% would be sustainable into 4Q, it's probably going to come down from there. And we'll see, but still probably growth in cargo.

關於貨運，第三季表現出色，我們的貨運團隊值得稱讚。我認為他們做得非常出色。我想說，在進入第四季度時，我們已經看到了一些波動，我們將拭​​目以待最終結果如何，但我預計 19% 的成長速度不會持續到第四季度，可能會從那裡開始下降。我們會看到，貨運量仍可能成長。

Ravi Shanker, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的拉維‧尚克 (Ravi Shanker)。

Glen, maybe a couple of follow-ups to your earlier comments specifically focused on 1Q. Can you help us understand how you're thinking about 1Q network planning, just given all the continual noise that continues to be out there. And also what happened last year with the kind of close-in weakness and corporate and everything else. Are you treating last year as a one-off? Or are you being more cautious going into next year because of that?

格倫，也許我可以針對您之前關於第一季的評論提出一些後續問題。考慮到外界持續存在的各種噪音，您能否幫助我們了解您對第一季網路規劃的看法？還有去年發生的近乎疲軟的情況以及企業和其他一切問題。您是否將去年視為一次性事件？或者由於這個原因，您在進入明年時會更加謹慎嗎？

I think we're going to head into 1Q the same way we're exiting 4Q, which is with a very strong backdrop. The quarter we know the most about is the quarter we're in and the quarter we know the least about is the fourth quarter of next year. But as the first quarter comes into focus, demand is looking quite robust. And so let's hope that, that spring swoon doesn't occur again next year.

我認為，我們進入第一季的方式與退出第四季度的方式相同，都是在非常強勁的背景下。我們最了解的季度是當前季度，而我們最不了解的季度是明年第四季。但隨著第一季的到來，需求看起來相當強勁。所以，我們希望明年春天的低迷不會再發生。

Understood. And just on that topic of 1Q and focusing on transatlantic, you guys have been talking about that shoulder season strength for some time now, clearly manifesting right now. Last year in December, you said that 1Q of '25 in Transatlantic was setting up for one of the strongest years you've ever seen. And part of that was driven by a favorable US dollar. The dollar is not a favorable right now. But are you -- from what you can see right now, do you see European strength continuing into 1Q '26 similar to what you saw coming into this year?

明白了。就第一季的話題以及對跨大西洋航線的關注而言，你們已經討論了一段時間的平季航線實力，現在這種實力已經得到了明顯的體現。去年 12 月，您曾表示，2025 年第一季跨大西洋航運業將成為您所見過的最強勁的一年。其中部分原因是美元走強。美元現在並不有利。但是，從您現在看到的情況來看，您是否認為歐洲的強勁勢頭將持續到 2026 年第一季度，類似於您今年所看到的勢頭？

Brandon Oglenski, Barclays.

巴克萊銀行的布蘭登‧奧格倫斯基。

Maybe this one is for Ed or Dan, but you guys, I think, in your prepared comments, talked about your long-term goals of margin improvement. And I think everyone would agree on this call that airline stocks could be pretty cheap, but maybe margin growth would really be welcomed for investors. So I guess in that context, what is in your control here as you look into 2026. So I'm not necessarily looking for guidance, but does it just have to be a market that's growing capacity a lot less than we have in the past three years? Or is it all these things that we're talking about on the commercial side that just gain more momentum? And what can you do on the cost side as well? I think Dan was just hinting out efficiencies there, too.

也許這個問題是針對 Ed 或 Dan 的，但我認為，你們在準備好的評論中談到了提高利潤率的長期目標。我認為每個人都會同意這一觀點，即航空股可能相當便宜，但利潤率成長可能確實會受到投資者的歡迎。因此我想，在這種背景下，當你展望 2026 年時，你能控制什麼呢？因此，我不一定會尋求指導，但它是否必須是一個成長容量遠低於過去三年的市場？還是我們在商業方面談論的所有這些事情都獲得了更大的發展動力？那麼在成本方面你還能做些什麼呢？我認為丹也只是暗示了那裡的效率。

Yeah. I think I'd point you back. Thanks for the question to a lot that we talked about last November. There were a lot of things in there that we talked about that were delta-specific as it related to things that are in our control as we look forward and we want to drive -- we run the company for margins. We want to drive margins up into the mid-teens as we laid out.

是的。我想我應該給你指出來。感謝您提出這個問題，我們去年 11 月討論過很多問題。我們討論的很多事情都是與 delta 相關的事情，因為它與我們展望未來並希望推動的、我們可以控制的事情有關——我們經營公司是為了獲得利潤。我們希望將利潤率提高到我們計劃的十幾個百分點。

And we feel that the playbook and the strategies and priorities in front of us enable us to do that, starts with those growing high-margin revenue streams faster than the core, premiums at the core of that. We talked about premium seats growing, and cabin -- outpacing Maine Cabin. So you have more product out there, continue to grow the Amex relationship and loyalty faster.

我們認為，我們面前的劇本、策略和優先事項使我們能夠做到這一點，首先從那些成長速度快於核心收入的高利潤收入流開始，而核心收入則以保費為中心。我們討論了高級座位的成長以及客艙的成長——超過了緬因客艙。因此，您可以擁有更多的產品，並繼續更快地發展與美國運通的關係和忠誠度。

So those are things that help you as it relates to the top line. The fleet renewal supports that. And then you look at the things that we want to do that and still drive good cost performance of low single digit. And again, it goes back to -- growing into the airports that are already in our run rate. It goes into the fleet actions that we've been growing and simplifying the fleet and getting scale out of it associated with it.

所以這些都是對你的收入有幫助的事情。艦隊更新支持了這一點。然後你看看我們想要做的事情，同時仍然保持低個位數的良好成本績效。再次，它又回到了——發展到已經達到我們運行率的機場。它融入了我們一直在擴大和簡化的船隊行動中，並擴大與之相關的船隊規模。

And then long term, continue to grow and get more efficiency out of not only our workforce, but the entire supply base, but also the benefits that technology bring to it. So we want a steady march over time of doing that.

然後從長遠來看，我們將繼續發展，不僅提高我們的勞動力效率，而且提高整個供應基地的效率，同時享受技術帶來的好處。因此，我們希望能夠隨著時間的推移穩步推進這項進程。

Now certainly, the industry backdrop is -- could be beneficial to that supply and demand stay in balance, there's real opportunity for that also to support additional margin growth in excess of the things that are delta-specific and controlled.

現在，行業背景肯定有利於供需保持平衡，這也有真正的機會支持超出特定和受控範圍的額外利潤增長。

And just maybe as a really quick follow-up. I think you guys said Co-brand spend was up 12%. It might be off on that. But can you talk to some of the loyalty drivers right now and how sustainable that is looking into next year?

也許這只是一個非常快速的後續行動。我認為你們說過聯合品牌支出成長了 12%。這可能與此有關。但是您能否談談目前的一些忠誠度驅動因素以及明年的可持續性如何？

Well, I think it's been driven by two things. One is the premiumization of the card itself. So we've been acquiring a record number of premium card holders. And their spend is a multiple of what our base member card spend is. So while you look at the total acquisition numbers and say, I think this is our seventh year of 1 million or more acquisitions, that the mix of those acquisitions is securing higher and higher in terms of getting -- reaching a more premium audience.

嗯，我認為這是由兩件事引起的。一是卡本身的高端化。因此，我們的高級卡持有者數量創下了歷史新高。他們的消費額是我們基本會員卡消費額的數倍。因此，當您查看總收購數量並說，我認為這是我們第七年實現 100 萬或更多的收購時，這些收購的組合在獲得更高端的受眾方面具有越來越高的保障。

And those customers have better credit scores so they get approved more often, and they spend more on their cards. So that's been really one of the key drivers for us is not only in the total volume, but the number of premium cards we've been able to acquire. And that's driven versus our 2x versus growth versus total card spend. And that's been year after year that we've been able to do that and looking to continue to do that through '26.

這些客戶的信用評分更高，因此他們獲得批准的次數更多，而且他們用卡消費的金額也更大。因此，這確實是我們的主要驅動力之一，不僅在於總量，還在於我們能夠獲得的優質卡的數量。這是由於我們的信用卡總支出增加了 2 倍。年復一年，我們一直能夠做到這一點，並希望在 26 年繼續這樣做。

As the more attractive and the more -- if you think about the question that was preceded about why Austin or why Raleigh, well, these are high-income growth areas. These are places that we've acquired a lot of cards in and trying to understand the interaction between the airline and the card and how to maximize both of those together as opposed to just looking at an individual route.

由於更具吸引力，而且——如果您思考一下之前的問題，為什麼是奧斯汀或羅利，那麼，這些都是高收入成長地區。我們在這些地方獲得了很多卡，並試圖了解航空公司和卡之間的互動，以及如何最大限度地利用這兩者，而不是只專注於單一航線。

Tom Wadewitz, UBS.

瑞銀集團的湯姆‧韋德維茲。

Wanted to see if you could give maybe a little bit of additional sense of the -- looking at '26, you're saying that you'll be in line with the multiyear view, so let's say 10% earnings growth, something like that. Do you assume that you get to revenue growth, low single-digit revenue growth, some kind of revenue growth in Main Cabin or should we think about this where you really get there with the good visibility you have on the premium and card and other things. And that you get to that multiyear growth without a meaningful swing up in main cabin?

想看看您是否可以提供一些額外的信息 - 看看 26 年，您說您將與多年觀點一致，所以假設盈利增長 10％，諸如此類。您是否認為您的收入會成長，低個位數收入成長，主艙收入會成長，還是我們應該考慮一下，憑藉您在保費、卡和其他方面的良好可見性，您真正實現了收入成長。您是否能夠在主艙沒有顯著提升的情況下實現多年的成長？

Well, I think we've already seen an inflection in Main Cabin, which is very exciting to us. And the trends that we see today are probably the trends that are going to carry us at least through the beginning part of 2026. So I would expect that Main Cabin does have improvement as part of our base -- as part of our base revenue assumptions for '26. And on top of that, the continued growth of the premium products and the card spend as well. So yes, I'm excited about the fact that we have finally inflected in the Main Cabin.

嗯，我認為我們已經看到了主艙的變化，這對我們來說非常令人興奮。我們今天看到的趨勢很可能至少會引領我們度過 2026 年初。因此，我預計主艙確實會有所改善，這是我們基礎的一部分——作為我們對 26 年基本收入假設的一部分。除此之外，高端產品和信用卡消費也持續成長。是的，我很高興我們終於在主艙中實現了轉變。

Okay. But you wouldn't necessarily see that as upside. That's assumed within getting to what the multiyear is?

好的。但你不一定認為這是好事。這是在了解多年期是什麼時假設的嗎？

We haven't given any guidance on that yet, so.

我們尚未就此給出任何指導，所以。

Okay. Okay. I appreciate that. That's fair enough. The improvement in Main Cabin, do you think that that's like, I think the consumer and especially kind of lower end consumer is, it's unclear whether how optimistic you should be.

好的。好的。我很感激。這很公平。主艙的改進，您認為是這樣的嗎？我認為對於消費者，尤其是低端消費者來說，目前還不清楚您是否應該抱持樂觀的態度。

So do you think that what you've seen in the sales trend that's been favorable is that consumer flying? Or do you think it's just Delta share and kind of industry capacity rationalization that's been beneficial? Or what do you think the kind of bigger driver would be of that improvement you've seen in 4Q and carrying into '26?

那麼，您是否認為您所看到的有利銷售趨勢就意味著消費者的購買力正在成長？或者您認為只有達美航空的份額和產業產能合理化才是有益的？或者您認為，推動第四季業績改善並延續至 26 年的更大因素是什麼？

At the low end of the industry, there's been a lot of seats removed, and that's allowed us to get a footing on fares. I think when you think about the financial performance of the carriers that are catering to the lower-income customers, they have not been good, and some had to declare bankruptcy. It's the restructurings that they're going through and having to get higher fares, they can't -- they need more money to survive. And so we had one of our competitors say something, but it's just math. Well, it is just math that they have to get their fairs higher in terms of -- and that helps us get a footing on our Maine Cabin as well.

在低端行業，很多座位被取消了，這讓我們在票價上站穩了腳跟。我認為，當你考慮那些面向低收入客戶的業者的財務表現時，你會發現他們的表現並不好，有些甚至不得不宣布破產。他們正在重組，必須提高票價，但他們無法做到——他們需要更多的錢才能生存。因此，我們的一個競爭對手說了些什麼，但這只是數學。嗯，從數學角度來說，他們必須提高展會的水平——這也有助於我們在緬因州小屋站穩腳跟。

Matthew will now go to our final analyst question.

馬修現在將回答我們最後一個分析師問題。

David Vernon, Bernstein.

大衛‧佛農，伯恩斯坦。

So Glen, maybe just a quick micro question for you in terms of the competitive capacity being down in Delta hubs year-over-year. I'm wondering if you're seeing any difference in domestic revenue trends in your hubs versus some of the point-to-point leisure markets. I'm trying to get a lot of questions about whether what you're seeing in Maine Cabin is going to be an industry-wide thing or more of a Delta-specific thing?

那麼，格倫，我想問您一個簡單的問題，關於達美航空樞紐的競爭能力逐年下降的情況。我想知道您是否發現您的樞紐機場的國內收入趨勢與一些點對點休閒市場的國內收入趨勢有任何差異。我想問很多問題，關於您在緬因州客艙中看到的情況是整個行業的事情還是達美航空特有的事情？

Well, we have three categories. We have coastal gateways. We have core hubs and then we have focus cities. And they've all been behaving well. I'd say the biggest improvements have been in the coastal cities where we've seen a big uptick.

嗯，我們有三個類別。我們有海岸門戶。我們有核心樞紐，然後我們有重點城市。而且他們都表現得很好。我想說，最大的進步發生在沿海城市，我們看到了巨大的成長。

And these are also the biggest and wealthiest cities in the country, the New Yorks, the LA, the Boston, Seattle, where corporate travel is significantly improving year-over-year and our share is improving. So that's really been a driver -- a big driver of it, and the hubs have been performing very, very well. And our focus cities, the ones that we're investing in are as expected. So yes, I think it's a broad brush improvement from where we were just 90 days ago.

這些也是美國最大、最富有的城市，紐約、洛杉磯、波士頓、西雅圖，這些城市的商務旅行逐年顯著改善，我們的份額也在增加。所以這確實是一個驅動因素——一個巨大的驅動因素，而且這些樞紐的表現非常非常好。我們的重點城市，也就是我們投資的城市，都符合預期。所以是的，我認為這與 90 天前相比有了很大的改善。

Excellent. And then maybe just if we kind of step back for a second, coming back to the commentary around earnings consistent with the long-term financial framework. Given the weakness and the weirdness of frankly, of 2025 with the second quarter slowdown, some of the irregular off days. I mean, if we don't have something like that repeat, is there any reason to think that we shouldn't be at the upper end of the framework you guys have laid out in the past? I'm just thinking just the comps are just going to be so much easier for big part of next year that maybe we shouldn't be thinking that. I'm wondering if there's a reason we shouldn't be thinking it would be at the higher end of your longer-term financial framework?

出色的。然後，也許我們只是稍微退一步，回到與長期財務框架一致的收益評論。坦白說，考慮到2025年的疲軟和怪異，以及第二季經濟放緩，一些不規律的休息日也會出現。我的意思是，如果我們沒有重複這樣的事情，有什麼理由認為我們不應該處於你們過去所製定的框架的上端？我只是覺得明年大部分時間的比賽都會變得容易得多，也許我們不應該這麼想。我想知道我們是否有理由不認為它會處於長期財務框架的高端？

David, this is Ed. I'll take that. We haven't given '26 specific insight nor have we completed our planning process. So we'll probably be better equipped to talk about that towards the end of this year or early next year. But no question, we saw some pretty strong headwinds that came quite abruptly hit us in late January, early February, we had the aircraft incidence, which certainly hurt revenue growth in some important markets.

大衛，我是艾德。我接電話。我們還沒有給出 26 個具體的見解，也沒有完成我們的規劃過程。因此，我們可能會在今年年底或明年年初更好地討論這個問題。但毫無疑問，我們在 1 月底和 2 月初遭遇了一些突然襲擊的強勁逆風，例如飛機事故，這無疑損害了一些重要市場的收入成長。

We had a lot of the trade uncertainty while consumer confidence plummeting. And to the point where Delta, as you recall, we wound up pulling our guide where there was so much uncertainty for a short period of time.

我們面臨許多貿易不確定性，而消費者信心卻大幅下降。正如你所記得的那樣，達美航空在短時間內面臨許多不確定性，因此我們最終撤回了我們的導遊。

So no question, we have some tailwinds as we look forward into the new year. And if today's environment projects into '26, I think '26 is going to be a really strong year.

因此毫無疑問，當我們展望新的一年時，我們會遇到一些順風。如果今天的環境能夠延續到 26 年，我認為 26 年將會是真正強勁的一年。

All right. Matthew, that will wrap up the analyst portion of the call. I'll now turn it over to Tim Mapes to start the media questions.

好的。馬修，電話會議的分析師部分就到此結束了。現在我將把時間交給 Tim Mapes 來開始媒體提問。

This concludes the analyst portion of this call.

本次電話會議的分析師部分到此結束。

Thank you, Julie. Matthew, as we transition from the analysts to members of the media, if you wouldn't mind, please, describing how best to enter into the call queue and the process for one follow-up, please.

謝謝你，朱莉。馬修，當我們從分析師轉到媒體成員時，如果您不介意的話，請描述如何最好地進入呼叫隊列以及進行一次後續跟進的過程。

(Operator Instructions) Your first question is coming from Leslie Josephs.

（操作員指示）您的第一個問題來自 Leslie Josephs。

We've seen Amex, Chase, and some others raise credit card fees. Just wondering if you see any pushback from customers in terms of acquisitions on your end? If you think that credit card annual fees at least can keep going up? And then my second question, also seeing a really long upgrade list, which I guess, would be good for you guys because you have a lot of elites, not just on your airline but others. And curious how you're managing that and if the percentage of paid seats in premium has gone up since the last time you've updated everybody?

我們看到美國運通、大通和其他一些銀行提高了信用卡費用。我只是想知道您是否看到客戶在收購方面有任何阻力？你是不是覺得信用卡年費至少可以繼續漲？然後是我的第二個問題，同樣看到一個很長的升級列表，我想這對你們來說是件好事，因為你們有很多精英，不僅在你們的航空公司，而且在其他航空公司。我很好奇您是如何管理的，自從您上次更新所有人以來，付費座位的百分比是否有所上升？

Credit card fees, but we also injected a lot of value for customers, and we had a record acquisition in that this year. And so we're very pleased with the results. I can't really comment to the results of Amex or Chase. But I would say, as long as you're providing more value to the customers, it seems like a pretty safe bet that there's going to be strong demand for those premium products across the spectrum.

信用卡費用，但我們也為客戶注入了許多價值，今年我們的收購創下了紀錄。因此我們對結果非常滿意。我無法真正評論美國運通或大通的結果。但我想說，只要你為客戶提供更多價值，那麼可以肯定的是，各個領域對這些優質產品的需求都會很強勁。

And in terms of our standby list, yes, there's a long standby list, and we have a lot of premium customers. And that's one of the reasons we've expanded our Comfort+ offerings because our most elite customers are allowed to upgrade into those products at time of booking. And we didn't have enough of those. If you look across the spectrum, we were generally sold out of Comfort early in the booking curve and now being able to increase that so we can accommodate more of our most premium customers with premium offerings at time of booking.

就我們的候補名單而言，是的，有一個很長的候補名單，而且我們有很多優質客戶。這就是我們擴大 Comfort+ 產品範圍的原因之一，因為我們最優秀的客戶可以在預訂時升級到這些產品。但我們沒有足夠的這些。如果你縱觀整個範圍，你會發現在預訂曲線的早期階段，我們的舒適艙通常就已售罄，而現在我們能夠提高舒適艙的銷量，以便我們能夠在預訂時為更多最優質的客戶提供優質服務。

Mary Schlangenstein, Bloomberg News.

瑪麗‧施蘭根斯坦，彭博新聞社。

Your forecast for transatlantic travel. I'm wondering if you still expect that to be mostly driven by U.S. point of sale? Or do you see a rebound from non-US-based customers?

您對跨大西洋旅行的預測。我想知道您是否仍然認為這主要由美國銷售點推動？或者您看到非美國客戶的反彈？

It's always been US point-of-sale driven. And so the question is how US point of sale will it be? And our point-of-sale revenue -- on revenue, we're approaching 80% US point of origin. So yes, that -- we hope that there's going to be more. The dollar, of course, has strengthened. That makes coming to America more of a bargain for customers. And so hopefully, we see that translate into a little bit higher European point of sale, but we are mostly a US point of origin driven company.

它始終是由美國銷售點驅動的。那麼問題是美國的銷售點會是怎麼樣的呢？我們的銷售點收入—就收入而言，我們的 80% 來自美國原產地。是的，我們希望會有更多。當然，美元已經走強。這使得來美國旅遊對顧客來說更加划算。因此，我們希望看到歐洲銷售點略有提高，但我們主要是一家以美國原產地為導向的公司。

And what are some of the other factors that are ongoing that you see constricting non-US point of sale. Is it still some of the concerns over immigration policies, things like that?

您認為還有哪些因素正在限制美國以外的銷售點？是否仍對移民政策等議題感到擔憂？

There's clearly safety concerns. There's a whole host of concerns of travel in the US. But I think we still have a great product here, and we have great cities, and we have people with relatives and friends and family. And so it's going to be -- there's going to be demand. The question is how much demand?

顯然存在安全問題。人們對在美國旅行有許多擔憂。但我認為我們這裡仍然有很棒的產品，我們擁有很棒的城市，我們這裡也有親戚、朋友和家人。所以，需求將會存在。問題是需求量有多少？

And the good news for us is we're not totally dependent on that. It's not our core business. But I would expect, hopefully, that next year is a little bit better than this year for European point of sale. For nothing else is that the appreciation of the euro has made European fares look relatively more attractive.

對我們來說好消息是我們並不完全依賴它。這不是我們的核心業務。但我期望，明年歐洲銷售點的表現會比今年好。原因無他，就是歐元升值使得歐洲票價看起來相對更有吸引力。

And Mary, this is Ed. The conversation, it's also on the margins, right? It isn't as if European has stopped traveling, you're still traveling in large numbers, the numbers may be down 5%, 7% in some of the markets. We're -- long term, we think our business model is very healthy for global expansion, and you're going to continue to see us pursue that.

瑪麗，這是艾德。這次談話也屬於邊緣話題，對吧？這並不意味著歐洲人已經停止了旅行，仍然有大量的遊客在旅行，在某些市場，遊客數量可能下降了 5% 或 7%。從長遠來看，我們認為我們的商業模式對於全球擴張來說非常健康，而且您將繼續看到我們追求這一目標。

Thanks, Mary, and congratulations. Matthew, let's squeeze one more in, please.

謝謝，瑪麗，恭喜你。馬修，請再擠進一個人吧。

Niraj Chokshi, New York Times.

尼拉吉‧喬希，《紐約時報》。

I was just curious, there's some talk about the industry sort of bifurcating Delta and United on one side doing very well and then the rest. And I guess, do you agree with that assessment? And then if so, is it structural? Or is it a industry phase? Just sort of curious to get your sense of what's happening?

我只是好奇，有人談論這個行業正在分裂成兩派，一邊是達美航空和聯合航空，一邊是表現良好的航空公司，而其他航空公司則表現不佳。我想，您同意這個評估嗎？如果是這樣，它是結構性的嗎？或者說這是一個產業階段？只是有點好奇想知道發生了什麼事？

It's clearly happening. If you look at the results this quarter, as I mentioned on CNBC this morning, we expect 60% of the overall industry profits to be driven by Delta. Expect the rest of it probably to be driven by United largely. And then you have everybody else. And this is not a new phenomenon.

這顯然正在發生。如果你看一下本季的業績，正如我今天早上在 CNBC 上提到的那樣，我們預計整個行業 60% 的利潤將來自達美航空。預計其餘部分可能主要由曼聯推動。然後你就有了其他人。這並不是什麼新現象。

This has been happening really since COVID hit over the last four or five years. There's a lot about the industry fundamentals that have changed that we, at Delta are driving a much higher level of quality experience, whether it's reliability, whether it's the product and services that we offer, whether it's the partners we're bringing to the table with the expansion internationally.

自從過去四、五年新冠疫情爆發以來，這種情況確實一直在發生。產業基本面發生了許多變化，達美航空正在推動​​更高水準的品質體驗，無論是可靠性，還是我們提供的產品和服務，還是我們在國際擴張過程中引入的合作夥伴。

And if you are in a category that is seen as more of a commodity purchase, that they're having a very difficult time. Their cost structures have increased as labor costs have gone up. It's been very difficult to get airplanes to get supply growth. Those lower-end models depend on high growth, and there's a lot of congestion in the US marketplace in terms of the sky.

如果你所在的類別更多地被視為商品購買，那麼他們就會遇到非常困難的情況。隨著勞動成本的上升，他們的成本結構也隨之增加。讓飛機實現供應成長非常困難。這些低端機型依賴高成長，而美國市場的天空非常擁擠。

So I think the bifurcation you're seeing is going to continue. And eventually, there will need to be rationalization to enable the lower end of the price spectrum to continue to sustain itself to be able to continue to attract capital. And I think we're seeing this all play out right in front of our eyes.

所以我認為你所看到的分歧將會持續下去。最終，需要進行合理化，使價格範圍的低端能夠繼續維持，從而能夠繼續吸引資本。我認為這一切都發生在我們眼前。

Matthew, that will wrap this up, please.

馬修，這件事就到此結束了。

Certainly. Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes today's conference. Thank you for your participation today.

當然。女士們、先生們，今天的會議到此結束。感謝您今天的參與。