Clearwater Analytics Holdings Inc (CWAN) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by, and welcome to the Clearwater Analytics' second-quarter 2025 financial results call. (Operator Instructions)

女士們，先生們，謝謝你們的支持，歡迎參加 Clearwater Analytics 2025 年第二季財務績效電話會議。（操作員指示）

And now I'd like to welcome Michael Chen, Senior Vice President, Head of Corporate Development, to begin the conference.

現在，我歡迎資深副總裁、企業發展主管 Michael Chen 開始會議。

Thank you, and welcome, everyone, to Clearwater Analytics' second-quarter 2025 financial results conference call. Joining me on the call today are Sandeep Sahai, Chief Executive Officer; and Jim Cox, Chief Financial Officer. After their remarks, we will open the call to a question-and-answer session.

感謝大家，歡迎大家參加 Clearwater Analytics 2025 年第二季財務績效電話會議。今天與我一起參加電話會議的還有執行長 Sandeep Sahai 和財務長 Jim Cox。在他們發言之後，我們將進入問答環節。

I would like to remind all participants that during this conference call, any forward-looking statements are made pursuant to the safe harbor provisions of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Expressions of future goals, intentions and expectations, including in relation to business outlook, future financial and product performance, expectations for the acquisitions of Enfusion, Beacon and Bistro and their expected benefits and similar items, including, without limitation, expressions using the terminology may, will, can, expect and believe and expressions which reflect something other than historical facts, are intended to identify forward-looking statements.

我想提醒所有參與者，在本次電話會議中，任何前瞻性陳述均根據 1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》的安全港條款做出。對未來目標、意圖和期望的表達，包括與業務前景、未來財務和產品表現、對收購 Enfusion、Beacon 和 Bistro 及其預期收益和類似項目的預期，包括但不限於使用可能、將、可以、預期和相信等術語的表達以及反映非歷史事實內容的表達，旨在識別前瞻性陳述。

Forward-looking statements involve a number of risks and uncertainties, including those discussed in the Risk Factors section of our filings with the SEC. Actual results may differ materially from any forward-looking statements. The company undertakes no obligation to revise or update any forward-looking statements in order to reflect events that may arise after this conference call, except as required by law. For more information, please refer to the cautionary statement included in our earnings press release.

前瞻性陳述涉及許多風險和不確定性，包括我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中「風險因素」部分所討論的風險和不確定性。實際結果可能與任何前瞻性陳述有重大差異。除法律要求外，本公司不承擔修改或更新任何前瞻性陳述以反映本次電話會議後可能出現的事件的義務。欲了解更多信息，請參閱我們的收益新聞稿中的警告聲明。

Lastly, all metrics discussed on this call are presented on a non-GAAP or adjusted basis, unless otherwise noted. A reconciliation to GAAP results can be found in the earnings press release that we have posted to our Investor Relations website.

最後，除非另有說明，本次電話會議中討論的所有指標均以非 GAAP 或調整後的基礎呈現。您可以在我們發佈到投資者關係網站的收益新聞稿中找到與 GAAP 結果的對帳。

With that, I'll turn the call over to our Chief Executive Officer, Sandeep Sahai.

說完這些，我將把電話轉給我們的執行長桑迪普·薩海 (Sandeep Sahai)。

Thank you, Mike. We had a very strong second quarter. Firstly, the core business continues to perform very well, meeting and exceeding our expectations. Secondly, we are very pleased that the strategic rationale behind the acquisitions has been enthusiastically validated by clients, partners, industry analysts and employees. Thirdly, we have acted purposefully and decisively to integrate the companies and set ourselves up for the next phase of growth.

謝謝你，麥克。我們第二季表現非常強勁。首先，核心業務持續表現良好，達到並超越了我們的預期。其次，我們非常高興地看到，此次收購背後的策略理念得到了客戶、合作夥伴、產業分析師和員工的熱烈認可。第三，我們採取果斷行動，整合各公司，為下一階段的成長做好準備。

And finally, our due diligence was comprehensive and there were very few surprises, resulting in us delivering very solid financial results for the integrated company.

最後，我們的盡職調查非常全面，幾乎沒有意外，因此我們為合併後的公司帶來了非常穩健的財務表現。

Our total revenue grew 70% year on year to $181.9 million, with our core business contributing $130.6 million, representing a solid 22% year-over-year organic growth. ARR was $783.5 million, up 83.4% year on year. Core NRR stands at 114%, with consolidated NRR at 110%, showing that our existing clients continue to expand the use of Clearwater.

我們的總營收年增 70%，達到 1.819 億美元，其中核心業務貢獻了 1.306 億美元，年增 22%。ARR為7.835億美元，年增83.4%。核心 NRR 為 114%，合併 NRR 為 110%，這表示我們現有的客戶正在繼續擴大對 Clearwater 的使用。

Our adjusted EBITDA of $58.3 million was 32.1% of revenue and up 74.3% year on year. What makes this truly remarkable is that 32.1% is 70 basis points higher than our stand-alone profitability in quarter two of 2024.

我們的調整後 EBITDA 為 5,830 萬美元，佔營收的 32.1%，年增 74.3%。真正引人注目的是，32.1% 比我們 2024 年第二季的獨立獲利能力高出 70 個基點。

Think about that for a moment. We integrated Enfusion, which had meaningfully lower levels of profitability and yet we grew profitability 70 basis points compared to last year. What makes all this possible is the inherent disruptive nature of our platform, and it's nice to see it continue to assert itself.

想一想。我們整合了 Enfusion，其獲利水準明顯較低，但與去年相比，我們的獲利成長了 70 個基點。使這一切成為可能的是我們平台固有的顛覆性，很高興看到它繼續發揮自己的作用。

The single-instance multi-tenant architecture with a single security master and a single data plane is disruptively better for both business functionality and efficiency. The network effect simply makes operations more efficient and each new client is inherently more profitable.

具有單一安全主控和單一資料平面的單一實例多租用戶架構對於業務功能和效率都有著顛覆性的優勢。網路效應使營運變得更加高效，每個新客戶本質上都會帶來更多利潤。

And where does it show up in gross margin. Let me walk you through what we have achieved on gross margin this quarter, because it simply tells the story.

它在毛利率中表現在哪裡？讓我向您介紹一下我們本季在毛利率方面取得的成就，因為它簡單地說明了一切。

When we announced these acquisitions, analysts rightfully expected significant margin compression because we were integrating Enfusion whose gross margin was approximately 10% lower than us. And the math was really straightforward.

當我們宣布這些收購時，分析師理所當然地預期利潤率將大幅壓縮，因為我們正在整合 Enfusion，其毛利率比我們低約 10%。而且數學計算起來非常簡單。

If you assumed approximately 69% gross margin for Enfusion, and close to 79% for the rest of the business all consistent with analyst expectations, we should have delivered a blended gross margin of roughly 76.5% as an integrated company.

如果您假設 Enfusion 的毛利率約為 69%，其餘業務的毛利率接近 79%，且均與分析師的預期一致，那麼作為一家綜合性公司，我們的混合毛利率應該約為 76.5%。

We had committed a 400 bps improvement in the Enfusion business at the end of the first 12 months, at which point we will then expect it to deliver a gross margin of approximately 77.8%. We delivered a gross margin of 77.4% in Q2 itself. That's remarkable. This was achieved in large part because gross margin of the core accounting and analytics business exceeded 80% for the quarter.

我們承諾在前 12 個月末將 Enfusion 業務的毛利率提高 400 個基點，屆時我們預計其毛利率將達到約 77.8%。我們在第二季就實現了 77.4% 的毛利率。這太了不起了。這一成績的取得很大程度上是因為本季核心會計和分析業務的毛利率超過了 80%。

A big shout out to both the operations and technology teams on achieving this long-term goal we had set for ourselves. And this was delivered in just 2.5 years.

向營運和技術團隊致以最誠摯的謝意，感謝他們實現了我們為自己設定的這個長期目標。而這個目標僅花了兩年半的時間就達成。

What I find exciting is that we still have several impactful levers we can pull to improve our margins in the coming quarters. Looking ahead, we see a clear path to continued margin expansion as we realize additional operational efficiencies and perhaps more importantly, as generative AI initiatives continue to scale the platform.

令我興奮的是，我們仍然可以利用幾個有效的槓桿來提高未來幾季的利潤率。展望未來，隨著我們實現額外的營運效率，或許更重要的是，隨著生成人工智慧計畫繼續擴大平台規模，我們看到了持續擴大利潤率的清晰道路。

Helios, our proprietary data reconciliation platform and the generative AI version of Helios should both have significant impact on our business. Financially, this is already a very compelling proposition, and we have already delivered the synergies and margin improvement goals we had laid out for the entire first year.

Helios 是我們專有的資料協調平台，而 Helios 的生成式 AI 版本都將對我們的業務產生重大影響。從財務角度來看，這已經是一個非常引人注目的提議，而且我們已經實現了我們為整個第一年制定的協同效應和利潤率提高目標。

But as we have said before, these acquisitions were primarily driven by a vision for an integrated platform that would alter the investment management technology landscape for our clients. And while Clearwater, Enfusion and Beacon, were already market leaders in the industries they're focused on, our ability to jointly deliver this vision expeditiously is meaningfully higher.

但正如我們之前所說，這些收購主要是由一個綜合平台的願景所驅動的，該平台將改變我們客戶的投資管理技術格局。儘管 Clearwater、Enfusion 和 Beacon 已經是各自專注產業的市場領導者，但我們共同迅速實現這一願景的能力卻顯著提高。

We began by working jointly across all three organizations; Clearwater, Enfusion and Beacon to develop a detailed and joint vision for the combined business. To validate this vision, several members of our leadership team and I travel to 14 cities across the world, engaging over 450 clients in intimate settings to discuss what we were building and seek their feedback. The response was near unanimous enthusiasm for our vision and direction. And clients immediately grasped the industrial logic of bringing these companies together.

我們首先與 Clearwater、Enfusion 和 Beacon 三個組織共同合作，為合併後的業務制定詳細的共同願景。為了驗證這個願景，我和領導團隊的幾位成員前往全球 14 個城市，在私密的環境中與 450 多名客戶討論我們正在建立的內容並尋求他們的回饋。人們對我們的願景和方向幾乎一致表示熱情。客戶立即掌握了將這些公司合併在一起的產業邏輯。

Equally important was ensuring that our entire organization was aligned. We met over 2,600 employees in person across our centers, close to 85% of our workforce to share our plans and build a shared vision for the integrated business. With this foundation in place, we move decisively to reorganize the business around what's best for our clients. We integrated the GTM teams and restructured the business to serve four markets; insurance, asset managers, hedge funds, and asset owners.

同樣重要的是確保我們整個組織的一致性。我們與各中心的 2,600 多名員工（佔員工總數的近 85%）進行了面對面交流，分享了我們的計劃，並為整合業務建立了共同願景。在此基礎上，我們果斷採取行動，以最適合客戶的方式重組業務。我們整合了 GTM 團隊並重組業務以服務四個市場：保險、資產管理公司、對沖基金和資產所有者。

We then took the product and engineering teams from all thwree organizations and combine them to build integrated capabilities that can be taken to these vertical markets. And finally, the enabling functions were integrated on day 1.

然後，我們將這三個組織的產品和工程團隊合併起來，建立可以進入這些垂直市場的綜合能力。最後，在第一天就整合了支援功能。

These actions were done to serve our clients better, and not to reach any specific synergy goal. But these actions allowed us to realize $20 million in synergies. Our full year one target within the first few days as an integrated company. But back to our vision for the platform we are building. We have the components to build a true front-to-back platform that will have exciting implications for our clients and the industry.

採取這些行動是為了更好地服務我們的客戶，而不是為了達到任何特定的協同目標。但這些行動使我們實現了2000萬美元的綜效。作為一家綜合性公司，我們在頭幾天就實現了全年目標。但回到我們正在建立的平台的願景。我們擁有構建真正的前端到後端平台的組件，這將對我們的客戶和行業產生令人興奮的影響。

The core tenets of the platform will be, number one, it will have a single-instance multi-tenant architecture. This is the last upgrade our clients will ever need. Number two, the platform will share a security master across the entire investment life cycle. When an event happens anywhere in the trade life cycle, a trade, a corporate action, or a regulatory change, it will be reflected everywhere in the platform in near real time.

該平台的核心原則是，第一，它將具有單一實例多租用戶架構。這是我們的客戶所需要的最後一次升級。第二，平台將在整個投資生命週期內共享一個安全大師。當交易生命週期中的任何地方發生事件時，無論是交易、公司行動或監管變化，它都會近乎即時地反映在平台的各個地方。

Number three, managing cross-asset class risk, risk across geographies, understanding cash flows at a comprehensive level, will all be possible in near real time, vastly enhancing decision-making capability. And finally, number four, integrating data ingestion, aggregation and reconciliation to work the way it should be, doing it once and using it for all clients across all functions.

第三，管理跨資產類別風險、跨地域風險、全面了解現金流，都將近乎即時地實現，進而大大提高決策能力。最後，第四點，將資料提取、聚合和協調整合到一起，按照應有的方式工作，執行一次即可用於所有功能的所有客戶端。

Data quality will also be vastly enhanced. When we solve the problem for one client, every client will benefit. This integrated architecture eliminates the complexity and inefficiencies that plague organizations using multiple disconnected systems. While this will be truly disruptive, the availability of an integrated data set already powers and will continue to power our push into infusing generative AI into all aspects of the business.

數據品質也將大大提高。當我們為一個客戶解決問題時，每個客戶都會受益。這種整合架構消除了使用多個不相連的系統的組織所面臨的複雜性和低效率。雖然這確實會帶來顛覆性的影響，但整合資料集的可用性已經為我們推動生成性人工智慧融入業務的各個方面提供了動力，並將繼續為此提供動力。

We will deliver next-generation reporting, deeper portfolio insights, and operational efficiency, applying Agentic AI and other capabilities that legacy systems simply cannot match. A good proof point of our joint offering was our recent signing of VKB. Germany's largest public insurer.

我們將提供下一代報告、更深入的投資組合洞察和營運效率，應用 Agentic AI 和傳統系統無法比擬的其他功能。我們最近與 VKB 簽署的合作協議就是一個很好的證明。德國最大的公共保險公司。

We are replacing a leading legacy provider and delivering a disruptive solution for them. VKB will be able to modernize its operations while significantly enhancing the accuracy and timeliness of data across all asset classes. Our solution brings together components of Clearwater, Beacon, and Enfusion to deliver an integrated front-to-back platform.

我們正在取代一家領先的傳統供應商，並為他們提供顛覆性的解決方案。VKB 將能夠實現其營運現代化，同時顯著提高所有資產類別數據的準確性和及時性。我們的解決方案整合了 Clearwater、Beacon 和 Enfusion 的組件，以提供整合的前端到後端平台。

Since the announcement of this combination, we have received numerous client requests and RFPs for a front-to-back solution, something none of the stand-alone companies would have been able to deliver on their own. We also made progress on our partnership strategy and are very excited about the recently announced partnership with Bloomberg.

自從宣布這項合併以來，我們收到了大量客戶請求和 RFP，要求提供前端到後端解決方案，這是任何獨立公司都無法單獨提供的。我們的合作策略也取得了進展，並對最近宣布的與彭博社的合作感到非常興奮。

When it comes to large asset managers, we expect to partner with them to deliver a full front-to-back solution. The collaboration creates a bidirectional integration between Bloomer Game and Clearwater that eliminates manual workflows and delivers a seamless front-to-back experience.

對於大型資產管理公司，我們希望與他們合作，提供完整的前端到後端解決方案。此次合作在 Bloomer Game 和 Clearwater 之間建立了雙向集成，消除了手動工作流程並提供了無縫的前端到後端體驗。

While we have long supported other point-to-point connections, the Bloomberg collaboration offers true interoperability, greater automation and a differentiated client experience. We're already working on over a dozen active deals where the joint solution is the key differentiator.

雖然我們長期以來一直支援其他點對點連接，但彭博合作提供了真正的互通性、更高的自動化和差異化的客戶體驗。我們已在進行十幾項活躍交易，其中聯合解決方案是關鍵的區別因素。

In closing, we're not trying to build an incrementally superior platform. We have the intellectual property, client support and engagement from our team to build the next-generation investment management platform. In fact, we hope to build the nervous system of the future investment management industry.

最後，我們並不是想建立一個逐漸優越的平台。我們擁有智慧財產權、客戶支援和團隊參與，以建立下一代投資管理平台。實際上我們希望建構未來投資管理產業的神經系統。

With that, I'll hand the call to Jim to dive deeper into our financial results.

說完這些，我將把電話交給吉姆，讓他更深入地了解我們的財務表現。

Thanks, Sandeep. I am excited to report another outstanding set of quarterly results as the momentum in our business continues and the strategic transformation of the acquired businesses is progressing faster than expected.

謝謝，桑迪普。我很高興地報告另一組出色的季度業績，因為我們的業務動能持續，而且收購業務的策略轉型進展比預期的要快。

We achieved record revenue of $181.9 million, up 70% year over year, which comfortably beat our guidance of $174 million. Our core Clearwater revenue continued to grow at 22%.

我們實現了創紀錄的 1.819 億美元收入，年增 70%，輕鬆超過了我們預期的 1.74 億美元。我們的核心 Clearwater 收入持續成長 22%。

What is impressive is how this growth came from both our traditional drivers, for example, our steady net revenue retention rate of $114 for the core business, as well as from newer drivers, including international insurance and global asset management. We've been investing in those areas, and it is gratifying to see those successes.

令人印象深刻的是，這一成長既來自我們的傳統驅動力，例如核心業務穩定的 114 美元淨收入保留率，也來自新的驅動力，包括國際保險和全球資產管理。我們一直在這些領域進行投資，看到這些成功令人欣慰。

As it relates to the acquired businesses, I'm happy to state that those businesses performed very consistently with their forecasts for the second quarter. The outperformance in revenue relative to our guidance was a function of conservatism applied to the forecast process of the two newly acquired businesses. Given that both businesses were quite new to us, for our guidance, we have kept the nine days of April revenue of the Enfusion business as a hedge against any unanticipated surprises. Unfortunately, the hedge is proved entirely unnecessary.

就收購的業務而言，我很高興地說，這些業務的表現與第二季的預測非常一致。收入相對於我們的預期表現優異，這是對兩家新收購企業的預測過程採取保守態度的結果。鑑於這兩項業務對我們來說都比較新，為了進行指導，我們保留了 Enfusion 業務 4 月份 9 天的收入，以對沖任何意外的意外情況。不幸的是，事實證明這種對沖完全沒有必要。

Annualized recurring revenue, or ARR, at the end of Q2 was a record $783.5 million, up 83.4% year-over-year. On an organic basis, ARR was $513 million, an increase of 20% year over year.

第二季末的年化經常性收入（ARR）達到創紀錄的 7.835 億美元，年成長 83.4%。以有機基礎計算，ARR 為 5.13 億美元，年增 20%。

As for the progress on the acquisitions, we've been particularly pleased with the progress we've made with Enfusion. This past quarter, Enfusion delivered the highest bookings achieved in any quarter in their history. And we welcomed 49 new clients with strong performance across all global regions of that business. And I look forward to seeing the momentum continue in the second half of this year.

至於收購的進展，我們對 Enfusion 的進展感到特別滿意。上個季度，Enfusion 實現了其歷史上最高的季度預訂量。我們迎來了 49 位新客戶，他們在該業務的全球所有地區都表現強勁。我期待今年下半年能夠繼續保持這股勢頭。

We also have seen incredible customer interest in Beacon., as their risk capabilities cut across all of our client segments.

我們也看到客戶對 Beacon 表現出極大的興趣，因為他們的風險能力涉及我們所有客戶群。

Now let's turn to unit economics and profitability. We achieved non-GAAP gross margins of 77.4%, which is impressive since Enfusion historically had a materially lower gross margin profile than Clearwater's. We previously communicated we expect around 400 basis points of gross margin improvement from the Enfusion business. And we are pleased to report that we have delivered on almost all of this faster than we had expected, demonstrating the power of our integrated platform approach.

現在讓我們來討論單位經濟和獲利能力。我們實現了 77.4% 的非 GAAP 毛利率，這令人印象深刻，因為 Enfusion 歷史上的毛利率遠低於 Clearwater。我們之前曾表示，我們預計 Enfusion 業務的毛利率將提高約 400 個基點。我們很高興地報告，我們幾乎已經完成了所有這些工作，而且比我們預期的要快，這展示了我們整合平台方法的強大功能。

In terms of EBITDA, we generated $58 million of EBITDA, representing a margin of 32%, and 74% year-over-year growth, which again comfortably beat our guidance of $53 million by $5 million. This beat resulted primarily from the achievement of the $20 million in expense synergies within this quarter. With the expense synergies achieved, we are now focused entirely on growth across all of our lines of business.

就 EBITDA 而言，我們的 EBITDA 為 5,800 萬美元，利潤率為 32%，年增 74%，再次輕鬆超出我們 5,300 萬美元的預期 500 萬美元。這一超出預期的業績主要得益於本季實現的 2,000 萬美元費用綜效。透過實現費用協同效應，我們現在完全專注於所有業務線的成長。

In terms of retention metrics, our gross revenue retention rate at June 30, 2025 remains solid at 98%, and the net revenue retention rate was 110. As these are point-in-time metrics, these results fully reflect the impact of both acquired businesses. Therefore, maintaining a 98% gross retention rate, while including all acquired businesses, is meaningful.

在留存指標方面，截至 2025 年 6 月 30 日，我們的總收入留存率維持穩定在 98%，淨收入留存率為 110。由於這些是時間點指標，因此這些結果充分反映了兩家收購企業的影響。因此，在涵蓋所有收購業務的同時，保持 98% 的毛留存率是有意義的。

Our NRR for our historical business for the quarter remained consistent with the first quarter at 114%. And as discussed in a prior call, we remain confident that the measures we are currently undertaking to improve retention metrics for infusion will enable us to achieve our company target of 115% on a consolidated basis over time.

本季我們歷史業務的 NRR 與第一季保持一致，為 114%。正如在先前的電話會議中所討論的那樣，我們仍然相信，我們目前正在採取的改善輸液保留指標的措施將使我們能夠隨著時間的推移實現公司 115% 的合併目標。

Turning to GAAP results. We recorded a GAAP loss in the quarter, largely due to increased intangible amortization expenses and costs related to the acquisitions as well as increased interest expense.

轉向 GAAP 結果。我們在本季度錄得 GAAP 虧損，主要是由於無形攤銷費用和收購相關成本增加以及利息費用增加。

Even with these transaction expenses in Q2, operating cash flow was $47.1 million from strong non-GAAP earnings and effective working capital management. That strong cash flow enabled us to repay $50 million of our revolver within the quarter, and we ended the quarter with total debt of $872 million. We continue to be committed to repaying our debt quickly and fully expect our leverage ratio to be very comfortably below 4x by the end of this year.

即使第二季有這些交易費用，強勁的非公認會計準則收益和有效的營運資本管理也使營運現金流達到 4,710 萬美元。強勁的現金流使我們能夠在本季償還 5,000 萬美元的循環信貸，本季末我們的總債務為 8.72 億美元。我們將繼續致力於快速償還債務，並完全預期到今年年底我們的槓桿率將非常輕鬆地低於 4 倍。

Now let's talk about guidance. We exceeded our guidance by $7.9 million in the second quarter with $1.6 million coming from our core business outperformance and $6.3 million from our guidance for the businesses acquired in April.

現在我們來談談指引。我們在第二季超出預期 790 萬美元，其中 160 萬美元來自核心業務的優異表現，630 萬美元來自 4 月收購的業務的預期。

For the third quarter of 2025, we expect total revenue to be $203 million to $204 million, representing a year-over-year growth rate of 75% to 76%. For the full year 2025, we expect total revenue to be between $726 million and $732 million, representing a year-over-year growth rate of approximately 61% to 62%.

對於 2025 年第三季度，我們預計總營收為 2.03 億美元至 2.04 億美元，年增 75% 至 76%。就 2025 年全年而言，我們預計總收入將在 7.26 億美元至 7.32 億美元之間，年成長率約為 61% 至 62%。

In terms of EBITDA guidance, we expect third quarter EBITDA to be $65 million, representing an adjusted EBITDA margin of 32%. We also expect EBITDA to be $232 million to $237 million for the full year 2025, representing an adjusted EBITDA margin of approximately 32% for the entire year.

在 EBITDA 指引方面，我們預期第三季 EBITDA 為 6,500 萬美元，調整後 EBITDA 利潤率為 32%。我們也預計 2025 年全年 EBITDA 將達到 2.32 億美元至 2.37 億美元，全年調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率約為 32%。

Now that the acquisitions have been completed, we can provide some additional guidance for those items below EBITDA. We expect interest expense to be about $16 million per quarter in both Q3 and Q4. We expect depreciation and intangible amortization to be approximately $29 million per quarter in both Q3 and Q4.

現在收購已經完成，我們可以為 EBITDA 以下的項目提供一些額外的指導。我們預計第三季和第四季每季的利息支出約為 1,600 萬美元。我們預計第三季和第四季的折舊和無形資產攤銷每季約為 2,900 萬美元。

And lastly, we expect equity-based compensation expense to be between $34 million and $35 million per quarter in both Q3 and Q4. We look forward to providing a more detailed update at our second Investor Day on September 3 at the New York Stock Exchange.

最後，我們預計第三季和第四季的股權薪資支出將在每季 3,400 萬美元至 3,500 萬美元之間。我們期待在 9 月 3 日於紐約證券交易所舉行的第二屆投資者日上提供更詳細的更新。

With that, I will pass it back to Sandeep for some closing remarks.

說完這些，我將把它交還給 Sandeep，請他作一些總結發言。

Thank you, Jim. The response from our clients, partners and employees has been incredibly exciting, and I could not be more pleased with our quarter. We remain committed to executing in the three phases we had defined.

謝謝你，吉姆。我們的客戶、合作夥伴和員工的反應令人難以置信地興奮，我對我們的季度表現非常滿意。我們將繼續致力於執行我們定義的三個階段。

In Phase 1, we want every team to execute as well as they did before the combination, just incrementally better. In Phase 2, we should start in earnest shortly, we will increase our focus on cross-sell and launch products and offerings to fuel that.

在第一階段，我們希望每個團隊的執行力都和合併前一樣好，甚至更出色。在第二階段，我們應該很快就開始認真開展工作，我們將更加重視交叉銷售，並推出產品和服務來推動這項進程。

We will also start a review of the commercial model, both for individual components and platforms and for the integrated companies. In Phase 3, we will bring the integrated platform to market as the key offering. Work has already begun, but as we have said earlier, this will be a multiyear effort. Meanwhile, clients will benefit from a natively integrated, but componentized front-to-back solution.

我們還將開始審查商業模式，包括單一組件和平台以及整合公司。在第三階段，我們將把整合平台作為主要產品推向市場。工作已經開始，但正如我們之前所說，這將是一項多年的努力。同時，客戶將受益於原生整合但組件化的前端到後端解決方案。

We have accomplished a lot in a relatively short period of time. And I want to thank our team for the hard work and dedication they have shown. None of this would have been possible without the unwavering commitment of the leadership team. Thank you.

我們在相對較短的時間內取得了許多成就。我要感謝我們團隊所展現的辛勤工作和奉獻精神。如果沒有領導團隊的堅定承諾，這一切都不可能實現。謝謝。

People across the industry are excited about what we are building and we have been successful in attracting several senior leaders to Clearwater. I'm confident they will help our growth in the years to come. Thank you, and we look forward to answering any questions you may have.

整個行業的人們對我們正在建立的事業感到興奮，我們也成功吸引了幾位高級領導人加入 Clearwater。我相信它們將在未來幾年幫助我們成長。謝謝，我們期待回答您的任何問題。

(Operator Instructions) Michael Infante, Morgan Stanley.

（操作員指示） 摩根士丹利的 Michael Infante。

Jim, I just wanted to start on the organic ARR and maybe how you're thinking about the full year core ARR growth and maybe how that informs your confidence level of your ability to grow above 20% into next year. I think by my math, that $513 million figure is effectively in line with the last couple of quarters. So you need to see some acceleration in the back half of the year? Just any commentary there in terms of the drivers would be helpful.

吉姆，我只是想從有機 ARR 開始，也許你如何看待全年核心 ARR 的成長，也許這會影響你對明年成長超過 20% 的能力的信心水平。我認為，根據我的計算，5.13 億美元的數字與過去幾季的數字基本一致。那麼，您需要在今年下半年看到一些加速嗎？任何有關驅動程式的評論都會有所幫助。

Yes. Thanks, Michael. This is Jim. So I agree with you that we expect to see that acceleration in the second half of the year. I think when you look at kind of -- not to talk about ARR, but to talk about revenue, kind of the sequential revenue growth in Q1 was pretty de minimis.

是的。謝謝，麥可。這是吉姆。所以我同意你的看法，我們預計今年下半年會出現這種加速。我認為，當你看某種東西時——不是談論 ARR，而是談論收入，第一季的連續收入成長相當低。

We had an incredible Q4 2024, and it stepped up to 3% when you look at kind of our expectations for the organic business to be roughly around 20%, you would expect that revenue -- that sequential revenue growth in Q3 and Q4 obviously be faster than the 3% in this quarter. So feeling good about that.

我們經歷了令人難以置信的 2024 年第四季度，當你看到我們對有機業務的預期約為 20% 時，它上升到了 3%，你會預計收入——第三季度和第四季度的連續收入增長顯然會比本季度的 3% 更快。對此我感覺很好。

As you recall, ARR is a point-in-time metric, and it's influenced by not only the booking of business, but also the timing of the onboarding of business. And so you can have some variability in that, but we feel really confident about what was a stellar Q2, a very busy, but a very successful Q2.

您還記得，ARR 是一個時間點指標，它不僅受業務預訂的影響，還受業務入職時間的影響。因此，您可能會遇到一些變化，但我們對輝煌的第二季充滿信心，這是一個非常繁忙但非常成功的第二季。

Helpful. Maybe Sandeep, just on the Bloomberg partnership. I know you guys are obviously really excited about the Enfusion asset and the cross-sell capabilities inherent there. But can you just talk about your thoughts on having additional optionality with Bloomberg, particularly for your strategic asset management clients?

很有幫助。也許是桑迪普 (Sandeep)，只談彭博夥伴關係。我知道你們顯然對 Enfusion 資產及其固有的交叉銷售能力感到非常興奮。但是，您能否談談對彭博社提供額外選擇權的看法，特別是針對您的策略資產管理客戶？

Like how will it look functionally in relation to the integration of the Enfusion platform from a technology perspective? And I guess, I was just a little bit surprised to hear that you already have like several active deals in the pipeline. So maybe whether or not you think it could be an acceleration driver late this year and into 2026? Thank you.

從技術角度來看，它在與 Enfusion 平台整合時的功能上會是什麼樣子？我想，當我聽說你們已經有幾個活躍的交易正在籌備中時，我有點驚訝。那麼，您是否認為它會成為今年年底和 2026 年的加速驅動力？謝謝。

Yeah, absolutely, Michael. So first thing, I think we talk about asset management is a really broad field. So you obviously have hedge funds and you have small asset managers and you have medium-sized asset managers, and you have these really large asset managers. So I think that segmentation matters.

是的，絕對是，邁克爾。首先，我認為我們談論的資產管理是一個非常廣泛的領域。因此，顯然有對沖基金、有小型資產管理公司、有中型資產管理公司，還有這些大型資產管理公司。所以我認為細分很重要。

So, JUMP could do really well with a certain size of asset managers in Europe. Likewise, Enfusion can do really well with small and medium-sized and some larger asset managers.

因此，JUMP 在歐洲一定規模的資產管理公司中能夠取得非常好的成績。同樣，Enfusion 也能與中小型資產管理公司以及一些大型資產管理公司合作得很好。

The second thing, Michael, is that we are an open platform. So we do interact with upwards of 20 different front office systems. But when it comes to the large asset managers, I think it's hard to argue that Bloomberg has a very, very strong position in that market. And so our expectation is when we get to these large global complicated asset managers, we would partner with Bloomberg and provide the middle office and the back office and provide a front-to-back solution.

第二件事，邁克爾，我們是一個開放的平台。因此，我們確實與 20 多個不同的前台系統進行互動。但談到大型資產管理公司時，我認為很難說彭博在市場上擁有非常強勢的地位。因此，我們的期望是，當我們接觸到這些大型全球複雜資產管理公司時，我們將與彭博合作並提供中台和後台服務，並提供前端到後端的解決方案。

Now we have had those opportunities in the past and it simply wasn't going to be able to provide the full front to back. And therefore, there was a whole string of opportunities we could get after pretty quickly. And I suspect the same thing was true on the Bloomberg side is that if clients wanted a full front to back, they would have had to go find a partner to do the rest of it.

我們過去已經有過這樣的機會，但它根本無法提供從前到後的全方位服務。因此，我們很快就能獲得一系列的機會。我懷疑彭博社也存在同樣的情況：如果客戶想要完整的前端到後端服務，他們就必須尋找合作夥伴來完成剩下的工作。

So again, I think it's a really strong partnership. It addresses a specific portion of the market. We are still very enthusiastic about what Enfusion can do and build. But when it comes to these very large multi-country asset managers, which are huge, I think that is still a long time coming, I think.

所以，我再次認為這是一個非常牢固的合作關係。它針對的是特定的市場部分。我們仍然對 Enfusion 所能做的事情和構建的事情充滿熱情。但對於這些規模龐大的跨國資產管理公司來說，我認為這還需要很長一段時間。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Peter Heckmann, D.A. Davidson.

彼得‧赫克曼，D.A.戴維森。

Hey, good afternoon. Thanks for the color. I just wanted to follow up on the ARR. I think you said $513 million for Clearwater. And so just kind of disaggregating the remainder, what would you say, approximately maybe [$2.20 to $2.25] for Enfusion? And then the $45 million for Beacon, is that directionally correct?

嘿，下午好。謝謝你的顏色。我只是想跟進 ARR。我認為您說的是 Clearwater 的價格為 5.13 億美元。那麼，將剩餘部分分解一下，您認為 Enfusion 的價格大約是多少？ [2.20 美元到 2.25 美元]？那麼，為 Beacon 投資 4500 萬美元的方向正確嗎？

That's directionally correct.

從方向上來說這是正確的。

Okay. And in terms of the, I guess, investments that you're thinking about making -- I guess, which parts of the Enfusion business you expect to focus your investments as you tackle the market on a combined basis?

好的。就您正在考慮進行的投資而言——當您以綜合方式進入市場時，您預計會將投資重點放在 Enfusion 業務的哪些部分？

Yes. Peter, it's Sandeep here. So look, we are obviously very focused on reaccelerating the business set in future. I just want to start by saying the platform is outstanding. We need to talk to clients who use Enfusion, mean they consider it to be a disruptive and outstanding platform.

是的。彼得，我是桑迪普。所以，我們顯然非常注重未來業務的重新加速。首先我想說的是，這個平台非常出色。我們需要與使用 Enfusion 的客戶交談，這意味著他們認為這是一個顛覆性的、卓越的平台。

So really what are we doing to help improve that? One is hedge funds and asset managers are similar, but they are different markets. And so the first thing we did was we took the product team and the engineering team and set up dedicated teams for hedge funds and dedicated teams for asset managers, so to step on. We took all the effort Clearwater was making in those markets and merged it with these teams. So they obviously have a much higher capacity. So that was the step one.

那麼我們究竟在做什麼來改善這種情況呢？一是對沖基金和資產管理公司類似，但它們屬於不同的市場。因此，我們做的第一件事就是組建產品團隊和工程團隊，並為對沖基金和資產管理者設立專門的團隊，以便繼續前進。我們將 Clearwater 在這些市場所做的所有努力與這些團隊合併。因此它們顯然具有更高的容量。這就是第一步。

Step two was setting up a sales team in much the same way. We want individual salespeople focused entirely on hedge funds and others focused on asset managers. Also, we empowered this team and we enabled this thing.

第二步是以同樣的方式建立銷售團隊。我們希望個體銷售人員完全專注於對沖基金，而其他銷售人員則專注於資產管理。此外，我們授權了這個團隊並實現了這個目標。

And I think that has already made a difference. I think like Jim said, they had an outstanding Q2. I do think the third thing is that we are able to introduce significantly enhanced capabilities, which can be used by hedge funds like risk, capability to deliver in Europe, client reporting. So just being able to bring those additional pieces makes their offering more comprehensive.

我認為這已經產生了影響。我認為就像吉姆所說的那樣，他們在第二季度表現出色。我確實認為第三件事是我們能夠引入顯著增強的功能，對沖基金可以利用這些功能，例如風險、在歐洲交付的能力、客戶報告。因此，只要能夠帶來這些額外的部分，他們的產品就會更加全面。

So I do think there are some short-term things, which I just talked about. Then there are somewhat longer things, which is how do you get the back-to-base motion more efficient? How do you get the commercial model to be more efficient. But those are still more to the coming. But I do feel that our first job was -- is, over the next two years, get their revenue growth back to 20%.

所以我確實認為存在一些短期的事情，我剛才談到了。然後還有一些更長的問題，那就是如何讓回到基地的動作更有效率？如何讓商業模式更有效率。但這些還遠遠沒有到來。但我確實覺得我們的首要任務是——在未來兩年內讓他們的收入成長恢復到 20%。

And we think we have a really good, clear line of sight. But what we're not trying to do is do something jerky. We want to do it the right thing, build the product have a dedicated engineering organization, have a dedicated sales team and get growth which is sustainable for the years to come.

我們認為我們擁有非常好的、清晰的視線。但我們不想做一些不順心的事。我們希望做正確的事情，打造產品，擁有專門的工程組織，擁有專門的銷售團隊，並在未來幾年實現永續發展。

Jim, would you add to that?

吉姆，您能補充一下嗎？

That's great.

那太棒了。

That's helpful, thanks.

這很有幫助，謝謝。

Yun Kim, Loop Capital Markets.

Yun Kim，Loop Capital Markets。

Okkay, great. Thank you. Sandeep, I know you talked about the cross-selling opportunity, probably, a multiyear journey. But is there any deal term opportunity to cross-sell into each other's customer base? I mean does that -- before you even start, does that require an integrated platform to be delivered first?

好的，太好了。謝謝。Sandeep，我知道您談到了交叉銷售機會，這可能是一個多年的過程。但是是否存在任何交易機會可以向彼此的客戶群進行交叉銷售？我的意思是——在你開始之前，是否需要先交付一個整合平台？

Yeah. So I think that the largest and most immediate cross-sell opportunity comes from risk. I think Jim spoke about it just so immediately applicable to all the hedge fund clients our company has, all the asset managers our company has or the insurance clients our company has. So I feel like that is sort of very immediate. But the more exciting ones are the ones which are more front to back.

是的。所以我認為最大、最直接的交叉銷售機會來自風險。我認為吉姆所說的內容立即適用於我們公司的所有對沖基金客戶、我們公司的所有資產管理人或我們公司的保險客戶。所以我覺得這是非常直接的。但更令人興奮的是從前到後的那些。

So when you look at -- I think we put out a press release on VKB, which is Germany's largest public insurer, and they have chosen us to replace an integrated front-to-back platform.

所以當你看到——我想我們在德國最大的公共保險公司 VKB 上發布了一份新聞稿，他們選擇我們來取代整合的前端到後端平台。

Now that is nothing Clearwater could have delivered, or Enfusion could have delivered, or Beacon could have delivered. But our ability to bring all three platforms and get that very significant win, I think is sort of a proof point and a testimony to what the joint company can do. So I feel really good about our ability to cross-sell, but I also feel good about this front-to-back capability, which is both very incremental to what we were doing earlier.

這不是 Clearwater、Enfusion 或 Beacon 能夠實現的。但我認為，我們能夠整合所有三個平台並取得重大勝利，這在某種程度上證明了合資公司的能力。因此，我對我們的交叉銷售能力感到非常滿意，但我對這種從前到後的能力也感到非常滿意，這與我們之前所做的事情相比有很大的進步。

Okay. Great. And Jim, obviously, you will be a conference -- earnings conference call on Clearwater without talking about NRR. How should we think about the combined NRR trend acquisition, do you expect the incision NRR to be somewhat variable in the near term? How much visibility do you have in that? And I mean, how should we expect that vision NRR to trend, especially off of commentary that you had a record booking there?

好的。偉大的。吉姆，顯然，你將參加 Clearwater 的收益電話會議，但不會談論 NRR。我們應該如何看待綜合 NRR 趨勢獲取，您是否預期切口 NRR 在短期內會有所變化？您對此有多大認識？我的意思是，我們應該如何預期 NRR 的願景趨勢，尤其是根據您在那裡創下的記錄的評論？

Yeah. So we had, obviously, the core NRR stayed very consistent. But as a consolidated business, we've described it as that we calculated it at 110. So if you recall, a couple of years ago, when we started on this journey of talking about NRR 115, we were about at that same spot. And so I think we're on a similar journey with all of -- across all of the businesses.

是的。因此，顯然，核心 NRR 保持非常一致。但作為合併業務，我們將其描述為以 110 計算。所以如果你還記得的話，幾年前，當我們開始討論 NRR 115 時，我們就在同一個地方。所以我認為我們所有的企業都在經歷類似的歷程。

What are the elements of that journey? One is really considering the commercial structures that we have in place and thinking about the durability and reliability of those commercial arrangements. And we've done that at Clearwater, and we plan to do that across the entire portfolio.

這趟旅程包含哪些要素？一是真正考慮我們現有的商業結構，並思考這些商業安排的持久性和可靠性。我們已經在 Clearwater 做到了這一點，我們計劃在整個投資組合中也這樣做。

The second big element that we talked about with NRR 115 a couple of years ago, was doing more for our clients, and adding additional products to drive more growth. Obviously, today, across the combined business that we are today, we have a lot more irons in the fire than we did two years ago, when we were able to make this journey to 115.

幾年前，我們與 NRR 115 討論的第二個重要因素是為我們的客戶提供更多服務，並增加更多產品以推動更多成長。顯然，今天，在我們今天的合併業務中，我們同時要做的工作比兩年前多得多，當時我們才能夠實現 115 家門市的目標。

And so we feel a lot of confidence about the cross-sell that you just talked about, being able to drive to that growth. It's frankly -- the music is the same music. The lyrics are a little different, but I think it's going to be a great song.

因此，我們對您剛才談到的交叉銷售充滿信心，並能夠推動這一成長。坦白說－－音樂是同一種音樂。歌詞有些不同，但我認為這將是一首很棒的歌曲。

Alexei Gogolev, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的 Alexei Gogolev。

Congrats with great results. Jim, maybe it would be helpful for everyone if you were to provide some more guidance that you did during previous quarter organic versus nonorganic for both 3Q and maybe for full year?

恭喜你取得了優異的成績。吉姆，如果您能提供一些關於上一季有機成長與非有機成長的指導，包括第三季和全年的指導，也許對每個人都有幫助？

Yes. I think we're looking at it as a consolidated number, but let me take you through -- we're not going to give you the specific details for that, but let me give you kind of how we thought about the guide, if that's all right, Alexei. So really, we've always consistently said, we think Clearwater grows about 20% year-over-year, and that's what we've focused on historically and consistently. So we think about those pieces. Secondly, when you think about Enfusion, it was at about a 13% growth rate, time of acquisition.

是的。我認為我們將其視為一個合併的數字，但讓我帶您了解一下 - 我們不會向您提供具體細節，但讓我告訴您我們對該指南的看法，如果可以的話，阿列克謝。所以實際上，我們一直一致表示，我們認為 Clearwater 的年增長率約為 20%，這也是我們過去和現在一直關注的重點。所以我們思考這些部分。其次，當你想到 Enfusion 時，它在收購時的成長率約為 13%。

So if you think about that, you think about that as kind of a 3% sequential quarter-over-quarter growth rate. And then Beacon, it's -- look, it's an incredible business. It's a large deal business, and so it can be a little bit lumpy, but we also think of that as a 20% growing business, and you kind of put those pieces together and that gets you into that kind of range for the kind of the full year view, Alexei.

因此，如果您考慮一下，您會發現這是一個 3% 的連續季度環比增長率。然後是 Beacon，你看，這是一項令人難以置信的業務。這是一筆大交易，所以可能會有點不穩定，但我們也認為這是一項增長 20% 的業務，你把這些部分放在一起，就可以進入全年預測的範圍，阿列克謝。

I think I'll remind you, right, as a core business, we had a 25% growth in the second half of 2024. So that's a little bit of a tough comp on that. But we're really focused on core Clearwater growing around that 20% for the full year.

我想我會提醒你，作為一項核心業務，我們在 2024 年下半年實現了 25% 的成長。所以這是一個有點困難的比較。但我們真正關注的是核心 Clearwater 全年成長 20% 左右。

And Jim, in light of that last comment about the high base of last year. Can you repeat what you said just earlier today answering the question about the acceleration of growth that you anticipate in the second half of the year. Was that in relation to ARR or revenue growth?

吉姆，考慮到關於去年高基數的最後一條評論。您能否重複一下今天早些時候回答的有關您預計下半年經濟成長加速的問題。這與 ARR 或收入成長有關嗎？

Yes. As we look at revenue and you just look at sequential revenue growth throughout the year Alexei, you can see our sequential revenue growth from Q4 of 2024 to Q1, it was de minimis, right? And we accelerated that to, I believe, sequentially, it's about 3%.

是的。當我們查看收入時，您只需查看全年的連續收入增長，阿列克謝，您可以看到我們從 2024 年第四季度到第一季的連續收入增長，這是微不足道的，對嗎？我們將這一速度加快到了，我相信，按順序，大約是 3%。

And obviously, as you -- from Q1 to Q2. As you look to Q3, and then from Q3 -- from Q2 to Q3 and then Q3 to Q4, you see that, that sequential revenue growth rate continues to reaccelerate. Otherwise, right, you couldn't get to a 20% year-over-year growth rate. If you -- it's just mathematics, like you do accelerate sequentially on a quarter-over-quarter basis.

顯然，正如你所說——從 Q1 到 Q2。當你回顧第三季度，然後從第三季度——從第二季度到第三季度，再從第三季度到第四季時，你會發現，連續的營收成長率繼續加速。否則，你就不可能達到 20% 的年成長率。如果你——這只是數學，就像你確實按季度連續加速一樣。

Yes, I was just going to add one thing that when you talk about revenue that already -- you have to consider the booking that's already happened, the ARR growth that's already happened because the bookings in Q3 and Q4 have impact on ARR, but not really that much impact on the revenue. So we obviously have confidence that there is acceleration on a quarter-on-quarter basis.

是的，我只是想補充一點，當你談論已經的收入時 - 你必須考慮已經發生的預訂，已經發生的 ARR 增長，因為第三季度和第四季度的預訂對 ARR 有影響，但對收入的影響並不大。因此，我們顯然有信心，季度環比成長將會加速。

Thank you, Sandeep. And just a quick question for you. I think you've highlighted that no negative surprises now that you had time to look over the assets that you acquired, integration is going well. I think one of the comments that was made by Jim just now that with the synergies announced, the focus will now be on growth.

謝謝你，桑迪普。只想問您一個簡單的問題。我想你已經強調過，現在你有時間審查你所收購的資產，沒有任何負面意外，整合進展順利。我認為吉姆剛才所說的其中一條評論是，隨著協同效應的宣布，現在的重點將放在成長上。

Can you maybe elaborate a bit more like what sort of investments may be required? How will that impact margin expansion opportunity near term?

您能否詳細說明可能需要哪些類型的投資？這將如何影響近期的利潤擴張機會？

Yes. So I just wanted to stress that. I don't think there is any change to the margin expansion opportunity. I think we talked about R&D investments and what we feel happens is that we take all of the people who are working on asset management and move them over to this other team, which is building products for those two markets. So I don't think there's necessarily a massive increase in R&D.

是的。所以我只是想強調這一點。我認為利潤擴大的機會不會有任何改變。我想我們談論了研發投資，我們感覺發生的情況是，我們將所有從事資產管理工作的人員轉移到另一個團隊，該團隊正在為這兩個市場打造產品。因此我認為研發投入不一定會大幅增加。

I don't think there's a massive increase in sales. I do think operations will continue to drive gross margin expansion. And so I feel that at the company level, we will obviously have more details at the Investor Day. But at a company level, the opportunity to expand margin in the second half or really into next year, I think, don't change very much.

我認為銷量不會大幅成長。我確實認為營運將繼續推動毛利率的擴大。因此，我覺得在公司層面，我們顯然會在投資者日上公佈更多細節。但從公司層級來看，我認為下半年或明年擴大利潤的機會不會有太大變化。

Now Alexei, as you know, you've seen enough companies like ours, we have a really strong leadership team, which has operated such a song before just to borrow from Jim, which I found super interesting, is that 3.5 years back when we met and we talked about this company going public, we were in this situation.

現在，阿列克謝，正如你所知，你已經見過足夠多像我們這樣的公司，我們有一個非常強大的領導團隊，借用吉姆的話來說，這個團隊以前也曾運營過這樣一首歌，我覺得這非常有趣，那就是 3.5 年前，當我們見面並談到這家公司上市時，我們就處於這種情況。

And so we know what to do with the commercial model. We know what to drive -- how to drive the margin expansion. We know how to drive efficiency in R&D. So we feel like we've seen this movie before. It's a little bit different, but not that different at all. And going into these acquisition that was a hypothesis and when we went into the detail, we found, yes, this is almost true. So we feel really good and confident.

因此我們知道該如何處理商業模式。我們知道要推動什麼——如何推動利潤率的擴大。我們知道如何提高研發效率。所以我們覺得好像以前看過這部電影。有一點點不同，但也沒有那麼不同。在進行這些收購時，這只是一個假設，當我們深入研究細節時，我們發現，是的，這幾乎是正確的。因此我們感覺非常好並且充滿信心。

I do want to make one last point is we did not want to find $20 million of synergy on quarter 1. We wanted to find it over the first year. But we did what was right for the business, what is right for the clients. It just so happened that in doing the right things, we were able to get $20 million in synergy. And so that's how we think about it.

我確實想強調的最後一點是，我們不想在第一季就找到 2000 萬美元的綜效。我們希望在第一年就找到它。但我們所做的是對企業有利的，對客戶有利的。碰巧的是，透過做正確的事情，我們能夠獲得 2000 萬美元的協同效應。這就是我們的想法。

We think the market opportunity is there. We have done like Jim said, we have found a synergy, found margin expansion. So it's all about the growth, and that's where we are fully focused on.

我們認為市場機會就在那裡。正如吉姆所說，我們找到了協同效應，找到了利潤擴張。所以一切都跟成長有關，這也是我們全力關注的重點。

Michael Turrin, Wells Fargo.

富國銀行的邁克爾·圖林。

I'll just ask a bit of a multi-parter upfront. If I'm hearing what you're saying correctly, Jim, it sounds like the inorganic portion of the business came in a bit better than you're expecting. I'm curious from a guidance mentality, if you still kind of hold the same pattern given it's early and just observing those businesses? Or if that causes you to nudge any assumptions forward a bit.

我只想提前問一下多部分問題。吉姆，如果我沒聽錯的話，那麼聽起來無機業務部分的表現比你預期的要好一些。我很好奇，從指導心態來看，考慮到現在還處於早期階段並且只是在觀察這些業務，您是否仍然持有相同的模式？或者如果這會導致你稍微推動一些假設。

And from a higher level, I'm just curious if there are any lessons you've learned from the prior pricing model transition that the company went through that you may be able to apply to bringing infusion to market and maybe adjusting the pricing model or some of the strategy there as well.

從更高的層面來看，我只是好奇您是否從公司之前經歷的定價模式轉型中吸取了任何教訓，您可以將其應用於將輸液推向市場，並調整定價模式或其中的一些策略。

So first is kind of more in the near what's happening question, and the second is just kind of high level how you're thinking about the strategy of the pricing model going forward?

所以第一個問題更像是近期正在發生的事情，第二個問題只是高層次的問題，您如何看待未來的定價模式策略？

Thanks. So really, the overperformance in the acquired business is -- recall, let me just go back, right? We last announced earnings on April 30. We closed the Beacon transaction on April 30, and we had closed the Enfusion transaction on April 21. And so they were both very new.

謝謝。所以實際上，被收購業務的超額表現是——回想一下，讓我回顧一下，對吧？我們上次公佈收益是在 4 月 30 日。我們於 4 月 30 日關閉了 Beacon 交易，並於 4 月 21 日關閉了 Enfusion 交易。所以它們都是非常新的。

So what we did vis-a-vis Q2 was we just kept those nine days of Enfusion revenue from April 22 to the 30, we kind of just kept them to the side, just in case, there was a surprise, and there wasn't. And so that's what that overperformance. And you see that then flow into the increase in the full year guide. And so that's that element.

因此，針對第二季度，我們所做的就是將 Enfusion 4 月 22 日至 30 日這 9 天的收入放在一邊，以防萬一出現意外，但事實並沒有發生。這就是超額表現。然後你會看到，這流入了全年指南的成長。這就是那個元素。

The other piece is, has there been a change in the philosophy about the guidance? I think we continue to feel more confident about it, but it is still very early days. And I'm pretty old, and so I still get surprised. And so I think we've used a consistent methodology that we used this year that we've used -- sorry, this quarter that we've used in prior quarters in trying to think through that.

另一點是，指導理念是否改變了？我認為我們對此會繼續充滿信心，但現在還處於早期階段。而且我已經很老了，所以我仍然感到驚訝。因此，我認為我們採用了與今年一致的方法，抱歉，本季我們在前幾個季度也曾使用過這種方法來思考這個問題。

On the pricing model and the changes around that, I think that -- so patterns that I think we've seen in the past that we will continue to see is -- that I think there is alignment across the entire organization about evaluating this and thinking about what are the right scalers? How do we think about aligning best? So I think there's a lot of alignment within the organization that remains consistent.

關於定價模式及其相關的變化，我認為——我認為我們過去看到的模式以及我們將繼續看到的模式是——我認為整個組織在評估這一點和思考什麼是正確的擴展器方面是一致的？我們如何考慮最佳的對齊？所以我認為組織內部的許多協調是保持一致的。

And the second thing -- there's really three things. One is within the organization, there's a line. The second thing is that we learned last time is we try things, and it's interesting what I think is a good idea. What clients like is really what matters and aligning around clients to that. And third, I would say that our early conversations with clients is -- there is an alignment around delivering more value for them.

第二件事──其實有三件事。一個是在組織內部，有一條線。第二件事是我們上次學到的，那就是我們嘗試一些事情，有趣的是，我認為這是一個好主意。客戶的喜好才是真正重要的，並且圍繞著客戶進行調整。第三，我想說，我們與客戶的早期對話是－致力於為他們提供更多價值。

Sandeep, anything to add?

Sandeep，還有什麼要補充的嗎？

Yes. I would just add that you have to think of it as a commercial model change and not as a pricing model change. It isn't just about price. If it was price, you could go ahead and say, okay, we are increasing price 5%, whatever. But it is about how do you create solutions, how do you create packages with customers value?

是的。我只想補充一點，你必須將其視為商業模式的改變，而不是定價模式的改變。這不僅與價格有關。如果是價格問題，你可以說，好吧，我們將價格提高 5%，不管怎樣。但它是關於如何創建解決方案，如何創建具有客戶價值的套件？

Then how do you think about annual price increase. So I think the one thing we did learn last time was do it deliberately, do it right, then it's very easy to execute and clients will buy it. But if you go in randomly with a sledge hammer, I don't think that's the right way to do it. If you want sustained improvement in the commercial model. So we're approaching it the same way.

那麼對於每年的物價上漲您怎麼看呢？所以我認為我們上次學到的一件事就是刻意去做，把事情做好，這樣執行起來就很容易，客戶也會購買它。但如果你隨意拿著大槌子進去，我認為這不是正確的做法。如果希望商業模式持續改善。所以我們以同樣的方式處理這個問題。

Is there any of the commercial model changes already? None. We don't even expect that in Q3. So we'll do it deliberately, we'll do it well, and then really have impact on it next year, and another six months after that into '27, and you would see the full impact of it.

商業模式是否已經改變？沒有任何。我們甚至不認為第三季會出現這種情況。因此，我們會慎重地去做，做好它，然後在明年真正產生影響，再過六個月，也就是27年，你就會看到它的全部影響。

Thanks so much.

非常感謝。

Dylan Becker, William Blair.

迪倫貝克爾、威廉布萊爾。

Maybe Sandeep kind of sticking on that thread around the commercial model angle. Obviously, you guys did something similar a handful of years back now and you did it fairly swiftly as well. I know we're kind of just talking in the ideation phase here, but I'm sure you guys have done some thorough diligence on the matter.

也許 Sandeep 有點堅持從商業模式的角度來思考這個問題。顯然，你們幾年前就做過類似的事情，而且做得相當迅速。我知道我們現在只是在構思階段進行討論，但我相信你們已經對此事進行了徹底的調查。

Wondering, yes, it sounds like customers are receptive to it, but kind of the early feedback you're seeing in hearing and maybe some of the learnings of that prior swift change that gives you kind of conviction in the success of that potential shift over time?

我想知道，是的，聽起來客戶對此很接受，但是您聽到的早期反饋以及之前快速變化的一些經驗教訓是否讓您對這種潛在轉變的成功充滿信心？

Yes. Thank you for the question. Look, last time we took four, five months to design it correctly. And then we went and implemented it. But because it was designed well, I think we could execute very quickly.

是的。謝謝你的提問。你看，上次我們花了四五個月的時間才正確設計它。然後我們就去實施它了。但由於設計得很好，我認為我們可以很快執行。

And we expect to do the same thing. But before we get there, we want to make client servicing excellent, so that's sort of a pillar of this. We want to make the platform performance excellent, and that's a pillar of it and use that time, the same five, six months, while you're trying to make these two excellent to design the entire commercial model, take it to market on the back of meaningfully better client servicing, meaningfully better performance of the platform, and then everything becomes a little bit easier.

我們也希望做同樣的事情。但在實現這一目標之前，我們希望提供優質的客戶服務，因此這是我們的支柱之一。我們希望使平台性能卓越，這是它的支柱，並利用這段時間，同樣的五六個月，在嘗試使這兩個性能卓越的同時，設計整個商業模式，在更好的客戶服務、更好的平台性能的支持下將其推向市場，然後一切都會變得更容易一些。

So again, we want to do this deliberately, do it right, [if so], do it very quickly. I don't know, Jim, will you add?

所以，我們再次強調，我們要慎重地做這件事，正確地做，並且要迅速地做。我不知道，吉姆，妳能補充一下嗎？

Very accurate. That's -- when we talk about commercial alignment, what we've learned is people are very -- they love the solution. People are interested in doing more. And so aligning around those proof points and doing that is obviously, it's a win-win.

非常準確。那是——當我們談論商業協調時，我們了解到人們非常——他們喜歡這個解決方案。人們有興趣做更多的事情。因此，圍繞這些證據點進行調整併做到這一點顯然是雙贏的。

Perfect. Okay. That's very helpful. And maybe Sandeep as well sticking with you on the VKB opportunity, encouraged to see kind of that buy-in around this unified vision, given how early we are kind of in the implementation phase. I wonder if you could give us some additional color on kind of how that agreement came to be?

完美的。好的。這非常有幫助。也許 Sandeep 也會繼續與您討論 VKB 機會，考慮到我們還處於實施階段的早期階段，我們鼓勵看到對這個統一願景的認同。我想知道您是否可以向我們進一步說明該協議是如何達成的？

It sounds like that's helping fuel already incremental kind of pipeline activity as well, but how you're thinking about that as potentially kind of being a lighthouse example, not just in the German insurer market, which I think is fairly large, but also more broadly across the rest of the business here?

聽起來這也有助於推動已經不斷增加的管道活動，但您認為這可能成為一種燈塔式的典範，不僅在德國保險市場（我認為該市場相當大），而且更廣泛地擴展到這裡的其他業務？

Yes. I would just start by noting that the German insurance market is massive, someone says half the side of the US, just the dramatic world itself. So it is significant in that sense, number one. Number two, it's hard to just replace accounting. Just given the competitive posture in not just Germany, but across Europe.

是的。首先我想指出的是，德國保險市場規模龐大，有人說它相當於美國的一半，這本身就是一個戲劇性的世界。因此，從這個意義上來說，它具有重要意義，這是第一點。第二，很難直接取代會計。不僅考慮到德國，而且考慮到整個歐洲的競爭態勢。

If you're going to do it, you've got to replace the entire solution front to back. And I think once we went back to clients with hey, we can bring all three of these, and that can deliver a next-generation cloud software, which you never have to upgrade again.

如果您要這麼做，您必須從頭到尾更換整個解決方案。我認為，一旦我們回到客戶身邊，我們就可以將這三者全部帶來，並且可以提供下一代雲端軟體，您無需再次升級。

Yes, I think it's struck a nerve. And we could not be both. Please, I got to tell you. That's why we did a press release. We were very pleased. It's a lot of work. I don't want to pretend like these three products will just automatically work together. But is it -- will it be a massive proof point in that market? I absolutely believe that. So very enthusiastic and very, very happy with this early win, if you will.

是的，我認為這觸動了我的神經。而我們卻無法兩者兼得。請告訴我，我必須告訴你。這就是我們發布新聞稿的原因。我們非常高興。這需要做很多工作。我不想假裝這三種產品會自動協同工作。但它會成為該市場的一個重要證明點嗎？我絕對相信這一點。所以，如果你願意的話，你會對這場早期的勝利感到非常熱情和高興。

Great, thank you.

太好了，謝謝。

Patrick Moley, Piper Sandler.

派崔克莫利、派珀桑德勒。

Thanks for taking questions. A lot of detailed questions asked, so I'll ask maybe a bigger picture question, but there's been a lot of talk recently about tokenization of real-world assets. You have the Chairman of the SEC talking about wanting to push this country towards moving more real-world assets onto the blockchain.

感謝您的提問。提出了很多詳細的問題，所以我可能會問一個更大的問題，但最近有很多關於現實世界資產標記化的討論。美國證券交易委員會主席表示希望推動美國將更多現實世界資產轉移到區塊鏈。

So just curious how you think about tokenization and the impact that it could have on your business? And then maybe what it could mean for the moat that your single security master gives you in the event that we do see real-world assets being put on the very publicly available blockchain?

所以我很好奇您如何看待標記化以及它對您的業務可能產生的影響？那麼，如果我們確實看到現實世界的資產被放到非常公開的區塊鏈上，那麼這對您的單一安全大師為您提供的護城河意味著什麼？

So look, firstly, I think this trend will continue, right? So that is number one. Number two, just the investment in all kinds of alternative assets is simply going to continue. Third, the investments around the world is going to continue. Fourth, the volatility, just given where we are in the world today is going to continue to increase. So I absolutely believe that that plays into our hand of being able to give you a comprehensive global view of your portfolio.

那麼首先，我認為這種趨勢將會持續下去，對嗎？這是第一點。第二，各種另類資產的投資將會持續下去。第三，全球範圍內的投資仍將持續。第四，考慮到當今世界的狀況，波動性將會繼續增加。因此，我絕對相信，這能夠幫助我們為您提供有關您的投資組合的全面全球視野。

Now will this happen very quickly? Do we expect 20% of real estate assets via our tokenization? I think that takes time. Are we going to try and lead that? Absolutely. Because if you're trying to create a token-based solution, who has it in one place is what you're going to ask.

這會很快發生嗎？我們是否期望透過代幣化實現 20% 的房地產資產？我認為這需要時間。我們要嘗試引領這項進程嗎？絕對地。因為如果您嘗試建立基於令牌的解決方案，那麼您要問的是誰將它放在一個地方。

Which provider today has the highest number of AUM on a single instance platform. Where would you go to try and set this up. And I think we have an inside view on not just tokenization there, but across private credit and private debt. And so, we feel we're in a really good position for exactly the same reason we integrate position on generative AI because all of our data, all is in one logical database.

目前哪家提供者在單一實例平台上擁有最高的 AUM 數量。您會去哪裡嘗試設定？我認為我們不僅對代幣化有內部看法，對私人信貸和私人債務也有內部看法。因此，我們覺得我們處於一個非常有利的位置，原因與我們整合生成人工智慧的位置完全相同，因為我們所有的資料都在一個邏輯資料庫中。

Everything we have done in terms of reconciliation for the last 15 years is all on that same logical database. And therefore, our ability to learn from it I think is sky high versus other platforms where every client has their own database and their own security master. So I do think that all of these trends should help the modern technology players, and we believe we are disruptively the most modern player.

過去 15 年來，我們在和解方面所做的一切都是在同一個邏輯資料庫上進行的。因此，我認為，與其他每個客戶端都有自己的資料庫和自己的安全主控的平台相比，我們的學習能力非常高。因此我確實認為所有這些趨勢都應該對現代科技參與者有所幫助，我們相信我們是顛覆性最現代的參與者。

Okay, that's great color. That's all for me, thanks.

好的，顏色很棒。對我來說就這樣了，謝謝。

Brian Schwartz, Oppenheimer.

布萊恩·施瓦茨，奧本海默。

This is [Camdin Wadi] sitting in for Brian Schwartz. Sandeep, one for you. You've already seen success achieving productivity savings via generative AI. But are you working on prioritizing AI for revenue monetization to give the business another growth driver? And then I have a follow-up for Jim.

這是 [Camdin Wadi] 取代 Brian Schwartz 的。Sandeep，給你一個。您已經看到了透過生成式人工智慧實現生產力節約的成功案例。但是，您是否正在優先考慮利用人工智慧實現收入貨幣化，從而為業務提供另一個成長動力？然後我要跟進一下吉姆的情況。

Yes. So we are very passionate about generative AI. We think it changes everything about our business, of our clients' business and how they do business, how they do research, how they execute trades, how to find new ideas of investments, we think it changes all of that. I do think the easiest place for people like ourselves is in driving meaningful efficiency improvement, which is what you've seen.

是的。所以我們對產生人工智慧非常熱衷。我們認為它改變了我們的業務、客戶的業務以及他們如何開展業務、如何進行研究、如何進行交易、如何尋找新的投資想法，我們認為它改變了這一切。我確實認為，對於我們這樣的人來說，最容易的事情就是推動有意義的效率提升，而這就是你所看到的。

You've seen us really be better at efficiency when it comes to generative AI. The transformation into revenue production or generating real growth on the revenue side is slower I think many, many clients are talking and discussing and seeing POCs, but I think the movement to actual revenue growth is a little bit lighter. Now if we go to our sales team, they will tell you, if we can do operations much faster that helps the sales process and therefore, the pipeline moves faster.

您已經看到，在產生人工智慧方面，我們的效率確實更高。我認為，轉化為收入生產或在收入方面產生實際成長的速度較慢，許多客戶正在談論、討論和看到 POC，但我認為實際收入成長的趨勢要弱一些。現在，如果我們去找我們的銷售團隊，他們會告訴你，如果我們可以更快地開展運營，這有助於銷售流程，因此管道移動得更快。

So in that sense, is it accelerating revenue growth? Maybe yes, but I think real generative AI-led products, I still think are in the coming.

那麼從這個意義上來說，它是否加速了收入成長？也許是的，但我認為真正的生成人工智慧主導的產品即將到來。

Now do we feel you'll see something in '26? I think so. Do you think you'll see something in '25 in the second half? We have very much hope you will start to see clients adopt generative AI as a core technology. So look, we are very bullish on it.

現在我們覺得您會在 26 年看到一些東西嗎？我認為是的。您認為您會在 25 年下半年看到一些什麼嗎？我們非常希望您開始看到客戶採用生成式人工智慧作為核心技術。所以，我們對此非常看好。

We feel whatever we invest, we get the money back in the current year and then end yours because you are getting margin improvement, guess what? The margin improvement then comes for every year out in the future. So we are big, big believers in it. We feel we have a massive competitive advantage because of single security master. So yes, we're going to continue to push. But I just got to tell you, we think it will change the world.

我們認為，無論我們投資什麼，我們都會在本年度收回資金，然後結束您的投資，因為您的利潤率得到了提高，您猜怎麼著？未來每年的利潤率都會提高。所以我們對此非常堅信。我們認為，由於擁有單一安全大師，我們擁有巨大的競爭優勢。是的，我們會繼續努力。但我必須告訴你，我們認為它將改變世界。

Perfect. And then just one question for Jim. Last quarter, lower customer AUMs was a headwind on the comparable. Did that headwind reverse and turn into a tailwind for NRR on the core business in the quarter? And then how are you thinking about that moving forward? Is that layered into your expectations and guidance for the rest of the year?

完美的。然後我只想問吉姆一個問題。上個季度，客戶資產管理規模較低對同類企業而言是個不利因素。本季度，逆風是否發生逆轉，並成為 NRR 核心業務的順風？那麼，您打算如何繼續推進這項工作呢？這是否影響了您對今年剩餘時間的期望和指導？

Yes, sure. It's very quickly. It was neutral quarter-over-quarter, and we expect it to be neutral.

是的，當然。非常快。與上一季相比，這一數字是中性的，我們預計這一數字也將是中性的。

Thank you for taking our questions.

感謝您回答我們的問題。

Maura Hager, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的莫拉·哈格（Maura Hager）。

This is Maura on for Gabriela. Just one from me. With alternatives now making up a larger portion of customers' portfolios, do you feel you're where you need to be post the Beacon and Bistro acquisition and just given the strategic partnership with Blackstone, how are you thinking about the development in this asset class for customers?

這是 Maura 代替 Gabriela 上場的。我只有一個。現在另類投資在客戶的投資組合中佔據了越來越大的比例，您是否認為在收購 Beacon 和 Bistro 之後，您已經達到了應有的水平，並且考慮到與黑石集團的戰略合作夥伴關係，您如何看待這一資產類別對客戶的發展？

Yes, thank you for the question. Look, I was hoping somebody would ask the question. It is our largest area of investment by far. I think that you can do accounting for it, but having the partnership with Blackstone and being able to bring Bistro to our client base I think it's a little bit game changing.

是的，謝謝你的提問。瞧，我希望有人會問這個問題。這是我們迄今為止最大的投資領域。我認為你可以對此進行會計處理，但與 Blackstone 建立合作關係並能夠將 Bistro 帶給我們的客戶群，我認為這會改變遊戲規則。

But I do think being able to visualize it is not enough. I think what really turns the dial here is Beacon. Being able to give you near real-time cross-asset class risk exposure on the trade your thinking of doing, I think it's game changing.

但我確實認為僅僅將其形象化是不夠的。我認為真正起到決定作用的是 Beacon。能夠為您提供您所考慮的交易的近乎即時的跨資產類別風險敞口，我認為這將改變遊戲規則。

I mean people go look at risk for equity separately from fixed income and separately for every individual alternative asset class. And then they try [for] CWAN to figure out what's really happening, and the ability to combine what Clearwater does with the best visualization, but also the beacon real-time, near real-time risk, cash flow generation, I think will really help the industry as it invests more and more into these opaque asset classes.

我的意思是人們會分別檢視股票風險和固定收益風險，以及每種另類資產類別的風險。然後他們嘗試讓 CWAN 弄清楚到底發生了什麼，並將 Clearwater 所做的工作與最佳可視化相結合，同時還能提供實時、近實時風險和現金流生成信息，我認為這將真正幫助該行業，因為它將越來越多地投資於這些不透明的資產類別。

So very excited about it, a lot of investment going in it and huge interest from a client base just across the client base on this offering here.

我對此感到非常興奮，大量的投資正在投入其中，並且來自客戶群的對此產品表現出了極大的興趣。

Okay, thanks for the color.

好的，謝謝你的顏色。

We have no further questions. So I'll hand back to management for closing comments.

我們沒有其他問題了。因此我將把結論交還給管理階層。

Thanks, everyone, for your interest in CWAN. Look, we're really excited about our prospects and excited to share more about our longer-term strategy, our targets, and lay out some of these milestones related to these acquisitions at our Investor Day on September 3, at 1:00 PM Eastern at the New York Stock Exchange.

感謝大家對 CWAN 的關注。瞧，我們對我們的前景感到非常興奮，並且很高興在 9 月 3 日東部時間下午 1 點在紐約證券交易所舉行的投資者日上分享更多關於我們的長期戰略、目標以及與這些收購相關的一些里程碑。

If you'd like to register to attend in person, reach out to the good folks at investors clearwateranalytics.com. And note, this flag has already been ordered, if you're looking for a new T-shirt or sweatshirt.

如果您想親自報名參加，請聯絡投資者 clearwateranalytics.com 上的友善人士。請注意，如果您正在尋找新的 T 卹或運動衫，此旗幟已訂購。

Cheers. Thanks, everybody.

乾杯。謝謝大家。

Thank you all. Thank you.

謝謝大家。謝謝。