CVR Energy Inc (CVI) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Greetings and welcome to the CVR Energy first-quarter 2025 conference call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.

大家好，歡迎參加 CVR Energy 2025 年第一季電話會議。（操作員指示）提醒一下，本次會議正在錄音。

It is now my pleasure to introduce your host, Richard Roberts, Vice President, Financial Planning and Analysis and Investor Relations. Thank you, sir. You may begin.

現在我很高興介紹您的主持人，財務規劃和分析以及投資者關係副總裁理查德·羅伯茨 (Richard Roberts)。謝謝您，先生。你可以開始了。

Thank you, Christine. Good afternoon, everyone. We very much appreciate you joining us this afternoon for our CVR Energy first-quarter 2025 earnings call. With me today are Dave Lamp, our Chief Executive Officer; Dane Neumann, our Chief Financial Officer; and other members of management.

謝謝你，克里斯汀。大家下午好。非常感謝您今天下午參加我們的 CVR Energy 2025 年第一季財報電話會議。今天和我一起的還有我們的執行長戴夫·蘭普 (Dave Lamp)；我們的財務長 Dane Neumann；以及其他管理成員。

Prior to discussing our 2025 first-quarter results, let me remind you that this conference call may contain forward-looking statements, as that term is defined under federal securities laws. For this purpose, any statements made during this call that are not statements of historical facts may be deemed to be forward-looking statements.

在討論我們的 2025 年第一季業績之前，請允許我提醒您，本次電話會議可能包含前瞻性陳述，因為該術語是根據聯邦證券法定義的。為此，本次電話會議中所做的任何非歷史事實陳述均可視為前瞻性陳述。

You are cautioned that these statements may be affected by important factors set forth in our filing to the Securities and Exchange Commission and in our latest earnings release. As a result, actual operations or results may differ materially from the results discussed in the forward-looking statements. We undertake no obligation to publicly update any forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events, or otherwise, except to the extent required by law.

請注意，這些聲明可能會受到我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件和最新收益報告中所述重要因素的影響。因此，實際營運或結果可能與前瞻性陳述中討論的結果有重大差異。我們不承擔公開更新任何前瞻性聲明的義務，無論由於新資訊、未來事件或其他原因，除非法律要求。

This call also includes various non-GAAP financial measures. The disclosures related to such non-GAAP measures, including reconciliation to the most directly comparable GAAP financial measures, are included in our 2025 first-quarter earnings release that we filed with the SEC in Form 10-Q for the period and will be discussed during the call.

本次電話會議也包括各種非公認會計準則財務指標。與此類非 GAAP 指標相關的揭露（包括與最直接可比較的 GAAP 財務指標的調整）均包含在我們以 10-Q 表格形式向美國證券交易委員會提交的 2025 年第一季度收益報告中，並將在電話會議中進行討論。

With that said, I'll turn the call over to Dave.

話雖如此，我會把電話轉給戴夫。

Thank you, Richard. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining our earnings call. Yesterday, we reported a first-quarter consolidated net loss of $105 million and a loss per share of $1.22. EBITDA was a loss of $61 million. Our results were impacted by the planned turnaround at Coffeyville -- the Coffeyville refinery, unplanned events in January, and an unfavorable mark-to-market impact of our outstanding RFS obligation.

謝謝你，理查。大家下午好，感謝大家參加我們的財報電話會議。昨天，我們報告第一季綜合淨虧損 1.05 億美元，每股虧損 1.22 美元。 EBITDA 虧損 6,100 萬美元。我們的業績受到科菲維爾煉油廠計劃檢修、一月份意外事件以及我們未償還 RFS 債務的不利的市價影響。

In our Petroleum segment, combined total throughput for the first quarter of 2025 was approximately 125,000 barrels per day, and light product yield was 95% on crude oil processed. The planned turnaround at Coffeyville began in late January following an incident at our naphtha hydrotreater during freezing weather conditions. Inefficiencies resulting from the incident, including mobilizing contractors earlier than planned, among other factors, impacted the duration of the turnaround by approximately four weeks.

在我們的石油部門，2025 年第一季的總吞吐量約為每天 125,000 桶，原油加工輕質產品產率為 95%。在我們的石腦油加氫處理裝置在寒冷天氣下發生事故後，科菲維爾計劃於 1 月底開始檢修。此事件導致的效率低下，包括比計劃更早動員承包商等因素，影響了周轉時間約四周。

Startup of the refinery is underway, and we currently expect to ramp to full rates over the course of the second quarter as we draw down crude and intermediate inventories. For the duration of 2025 and '26, we do not currently have any additional turnarounds planned in the Refining segment, with the next planned turnaround at Wynnewood scheduled for 2027.

煉油廠正在啟動，隨著原油和中間體庫存的減少，我們目前預計第二季將達到滿載生產。在 2025 年和 2026 年期間，我們目前沒有計劃在煉油部門進行任何額外的檢修，Wynnewood 的下一次檢修計劃將於 2027 年進行。

Group 3 2-1-1 benchmark cracks at average $17.65 per barrel for the first quarter of 2025, compared to $19.55 per barrel for the first quarter of last year. Average RIN prices in the first quarter of 2025 were approximately $0.84 on an RVO-weighted basis, an increase of over 25% from the previous year period. On a per-barrel basis, RINs were approximately $4.75 per barrel or more than 25% of the Group 3 2-1-1 crack spread for the quarter.

2025 年第一季度，第 3 組 2-1-1 基準原油裂解價格平均為每桶 17.65 美元，去年第一季為每桶 19.55 美元。2025 年第一季度，RIN 平均價格以 RVO 加權計算約為 0.84 美元，較去年同期上漲 25% 以上。以每桶計算，RIN 約為每桶 4.75 美元，或超過本季第 3 組 2-1-1 裂解價差的 25%。

Regarding the RFS, we were pleased with the First Circuit granting the Wynnewood Refining Company's unopposed motion to stay its 2023 compliance obligations in March. Also in March, the Supreme Court heard oral arguments on whether the venue -- whether venue for challenges to the EPA's denial of small refinery exemptions lies exclusively within the DC Circuit.

關於 RFS，我們很高興看到第一巡迴法院在 3 月批准了 Wynnewood 煉油公司的無異議動議，暫停其 2023 年的合規義務。此外，在三月份，最高法院聽取了關於對環保署拒絕小型煉油廠豁免的決定提出質疑的審判地點是否僅限於哥倫比亞特區巡迴上訴法院的口頭辯論。

We currently expect of a ruling on the venue case in the second quarter, although the ruling should make little difference in this case since the DC Circuit, like the Fifth Circuit before it, also held EPA's denial of small refinery exemptions were arbitrary, capricious, and contrary to the law. The Wynnewood Refinery Company filed its 2024 petition for small refinery exemptions last year, but EPA once again missed its deadline to rule. We urge EPA to meet with us as soon as possible or we'll be forced to file suit again.

我們目前預計該法院將在第二季度對該地點案件作出裁決，但該裁決對此案影響不大，因為哥倫比亞特區巡迴上訴法院與之前的第五巡迴上訴法院一樣，也認為美國環保署拒絕小型煉油廠豁免的決定是武斷、反复無常且違反法律的。溫尼伍德煉油廠去年提交了 2024 年小型煉油廠豁免申請，但環保署再次錯過了裁決期限。我們敦促 EPA 盡快與我們會面，否則我們將被迫再次提起訴訟。

At this point, EPA is sitting on Wynnewood's small refinery exemption petitions for 2019, '20, '21, '22, and '23. The prior administration only acted on our '23 petition when it denied it in January for ridiculous and, we think, illegal reasons. The RIN market causes higher prices at the pump for all Americans, which EPA has omitted.

目前，美國環保署正在審議 Wynnewood 小型煉油廠 2019 年、2020 年、2122 年和 2023 年的豁免申請。前政府只是在 1 月以荒謬且我們認為非法的理由拒絕了我們的 23 年請願，才採取行動。RIN 市場導致所有美國人的油價上漲，但 EPA 卻忽略了這一點。

As a reminder, we currently estimate the cost of RINs at $0.10 to $0.15 per gallon on all transportation fuels. We believe that the EPA should be doing everything it can to keep fuel prices low. At a minimum, EPA should immediately hit the easy button and apply the same alternative compliance strategy it used in 2017 and '18 for all historical SREs from 2019 to 2024. All these compliance periods are in the past. This harms no one and could save small refineries from the risk of closure due to the crushing weight of RFS.

提醒一下，我們目前估計所有運輸燃料的 RIN 成本為每加侖 0.10 至 0.15 美元。我們認為，環保署應該盡一切努力保持燃料價格低廉。至少，EPA 應該立即點擊「輕鬆」按鈕，並對 2019 年至 2024 年期間的所有歷史 SRE 應用其在 2017 年和 2018 年使用的相同替代合規策略。所有這些合規期都已成為過去。這不會對任何人造成傷害，並且可以使小型煉油廠免於因 RFS 的巨大壓力而關閉的風險。

Despite EPA's continued lack of action, we are encouraged by the administration's statement that they are reassessing their position on SREs. I am confident that under President Trump's leadership, the EPA will see the critical role small refineries like ours play in supporting rural communities across America, exactly why Congress included the small refinery exemptions in the renewable fuels legislation.

儘管美國環保署一直沒有採取行動，但政府表示正在重新評估對 SRE 的立場，這令我們感到鼓舞。我相信，在川普總統的領導下，美國環保署將看到像我們這樣的小型煉油廠在支持美國各地農村社區方面發揮的關鍵作用，這正是國會在再生燃料立法中納入小型煉油廠豁免的原因。

For the first quarter of 2025, we processed approximately 14 million gallons of vegetable fuel oil in our renewable diesel unit at Wynnewood. Gross margin was approximately $1.13 per gallon for the first quarter of 2025, compared to $0.65 per gallon for the first quarter of 2024. The blender's tax credit expired at the end of 2024, and we did not recognize any clean fuel production credits in the quarter as the final rules have not been issued. Despite the loss of the BTC, we generated positive adjusted EBITDA in the Renewables section, primarily driven by increased RIN prices and reduced feedstock basis.

2025 年第一季度，我們在 Wynnewood 的可再生柴油裝置加工了約 1,400 萬加侖植物燃料油。2025 年第一季的毛利率約為每加侖 1.13 美元，而 2024 年第一季的毛利率為每加侖 0.65 美元。混合器的稅收抵免於 2024 年底到期，由於最終規則尚未發布，我們在本季未確認任何清潔燃料生產抵免。儘管損失了 BTC，但我們在再生能源部門產生了正的調整後 EBITDA，這主要得益於 RIN 價格上漲和原料基礎減少。

In the Fertilizer segment, both facilities ran well during the quarter with a consolidated ammonia utilization rate of 101%. Nitrogen fertilizer prices in the first quarter of 2025 were higher for ammonia and slightly lower for UAN compared to the first quarter of 2024. And we continue to see strong demand for both products as we head into the spring planting season.

在化肥部門，兩家工廠本季運作良好，綜合氨利用率為 101%。2025 年第一季的氮肥價格與 2024 年第一季相比，氨氮肥價格較高，而 UAN 氮肥價格略低。隨著春季種植季節的到來，我們繼續看到對這兩種產品的強勁需求。

Now let me turn the call over to Dane to discuss our financial highlights.

現在，讓我將電話轉給 Dane，討論一下我們的財務亮點。

Thank you, Dave. And good afternoon, everyone. For the first quarter of 2025, our consolidated net loss was $105 million, losses per share were $1.22, and EBITDA was a loss of $61 million. Our first-quarter results included a negative mark-to-market impact on our outstanding RFS obligation of $112 million, a favorable inventory valuation impact of $24 million, and unrealized derivative gains of $3 million.

謝謝你，戴夫。大家下午好。2025 年第一季度，我們的合併淨虧損為 1.05 億美元，每股虧損為 1.22 美元，EBITDA 虧損為 6,100 萬美元。我們第一季的業績包括對未償還 RFS 債務的 1.12 億美元負面市價影響、2,400 萬美元的有利庫存估值影響以及 300 萬美元的未實現衍生性商品收益。

Excluding the above-mentioned items, adjusted EBITDA for the quarter was $24 million, and adjusted loss per share was $0.58. Adjusted EBITDA on the Petroleum segment was a loss of $30 million for the first quarter, with the decline from the prior-year period driven by reduced throughput volumes due to the planned and unplanned downtime at Coffeyville, along with lower product cracks in Group 3.

除上述項目外，本季調整後的 EBITDA 為 2,400 萬美元，調整後每股虧損為 0.58 美元。石油部門第一季調整後 EBITDA 虧損 3,000 萬美元，與去年同期相比有所下降，原因是 Coffeyville 的計劃內和計劃外停機導致吞吐量減少，以及第 3 組產品裂解量減少。

Our first-quarter realized margin adjusted for in-market market impacts, inventory valuation, and unrealized derivative gains was $7.72 per barrel, representing a 44% capture rate on the Group 3 2-1-1 benchmark. Net RINs expense for the quarter, excluding the mark-to-market impact, was $27 million, or $2.47 per barrel, which negatively impacted our capture rate for the quarter by approximately 14%.

我們第一季根據市場影響、庫存估值和未實現衍生性商品收益調整後的實現利潤為每桶 7.72 美元，相當於第 3 組 2-1-1 基準的 44% 的捕獲率。本季淨 RIN 費用（不包括以市價計算的影響）為 2,700 萬美元，即每桶 2.47 美元，這對我們本季的捕獲率產生了約 14% 的負面影響。

The estimated accrued RFS obligation on the balance sheet was $438 million at March 31, representing $488 million RINs mark-to-market at an average price of $0.90. A reminder, our estimated outstanding RIN obligation excludes the impact of any small refinery exemptions. Direct operating expenses in the Petroleum segment were $8.58 per barrel for the first quarter compared to $5.78 per barrel in the first quarter of 2024. The increase in direct operating expense per barrel was primarily driven by lower throughput volumes.

截至 3 月 31 日，資產負債表上估計的應計 RFS 債務為 4.38 億美元，相當於以平均價格 0.90 美元計算的 4.88 億美元 RIN 的市價。提醒一下，我們估計的未償還 RIN 義務不包括任何小型煉油廠豁免的影響。第一季石油部門的直接營運費用為每桶 8.58 美元，而 2024 年第一季為每桶 5.78 美元。每桶直接營運費用的增加主要是由於產量下降所致。

Adjusted EBITDA on the Renewables segment was $3 million for the first quarter, an improvement from the first quarter of 2024 adjusted EBITDA of negative $5 million. The increase in adjusted EBITDA was driven by a combination of higher throughput volumes, increased RINs, prices and reduced feedstock basis, partially offset by the expiration of the BTC. Adjusted EBITDA on the Fertilizer segment was $53 million for the first quarter, with higher UAN sales volumes and higher ammonia sales prices driving the increase relative to the prior year period.

第一季再生能源部門的調整後 EBITDA 為 300 萬美元，較 2024 年第一季的調整後 EBITDA 負 500 萬美元有所改善。調整後 EBITDA 的成長是由更高的吞吐量、更高的 RIN 和價格以及更低的原料基礎等因素共同推動的，但 BTC 的到期部分抵消了這一影響。第一季化肥部門的調整後 EBITDA 為 5,300 萬美元，其中 UAN 銷售量的增加和氨銷售價格的上漲推動了該部門相對於去年同期的成長。

The partnership declared a distribution of $2.26 per common unit for the first quarter of 2025. As CVR Energy owns approximately 37% of CVR Partners' common units, we will receive a proportionate cash distribution of approximately $9 million. Cash consumed by operations for the first quarter of 2025 was $195 million, and free cash flow was a use of $285 million.

該合夥企業宣布 2025 年第一季每股普通股分配 2.26 美元。由於 CVR Energy 擁有 CVR Partners 約 37% 的普通股，我們將獲得約 900 萬美元的比例現金分配。2025 年第一季營運消耗的現金為 1.95 億美元，自由現金流使用量為 2.85 億美元。

Significant uses of cash in the quarter include $94 million of capital and turnaround spending, $47 million for cash interest, $12 million paid for the non-controlling interest portion of the CVR partner's fourth-quarter 2024 distribution, and a cash use from working capital of approximately $113 million, partially associated with inventories being built during the Coffeyville turnaround.

本季現金的主要用途包括 9,400 萬美元的資本和周轉支出、4,700 萬美元的現金利息、1,200 萬美元支付的 CVR 合作夥伴 2024 年第四季分配的非控股權益部分，以及約 1.13 億美元的營運資本現金使用，部分與 Coffeyville 週轉轉期間建立的庫存有關。

Total consolidated capital spending on an accrual basis was $55 million, which included $49 million in the Petroleum segment, $6 million in the Fertilizer segment, and less than $1 million in the Renewables segment. Turnaround spending on an accrual basis in the first quarter was approximately $166 million. For the full year of 2025, we estimate total consolidated capital spending to be approximately $180 million to $210 million, and turnaround spending would be approximately $180 million to $200 million.

以應計制計算的合併資本支出總額為 5,500 萬美元，其中包括石油部門的 4,900 萬美元、化肥部門的 600 萬美元以及再生能源部門的不到 100 萬美元。第一季以應計制計算的周轉支出約為 1.66 億美元。對於 2025 年全年，我們估計總合併資本支出約為 1.8 億至 2.1 億美元，而周轉支出約為 1.8 億至 2 億美元。

Turning to the balance sheet, we ended the quarter with a consolidated cash balance of $695 million, which includes $122 million of cash in the Fertilizer segment. Total liquidity as of March 31, excluding CVR partners, was approximately $894 million, which was comprised primarily of $573 million of cash and availability under the ABL facility of $321 million.

談到資產負債表，本季末我們的綜合現金餘額為 6.95 億美元，其中包括化肥部門的 1.22 億美元現金。截至 3 月 31 日，不包括 CVR 合作夥伴在內的總流動資金約為 8.94 億美元，其中主要包括 5.73 億美元的現金和 3.21 億美元的 ABL 信貸額度下的可用資金。

While we ended the quarter above our targeted minimum cash balances, I want to highlight that the majority of the cash spend associated with the Coffeyville turnaround will be incurred in the second quarter, which should be partially offset by a drawdown of inventories built during the turnaround.

雖然我們在本季結束時的現金餘額超過了目標最低現金餘額，但我想強調的是，與科菲維爾扭虧為盈相關的大部分現金支出將在第二季度發生，這應該會被扭虧為盈期間建立的庫存減少部分抵消。

Looking ahead to the second quarter of 2025, for our Petroleum segment, we estimate total throughputs to be approximately 160,000 to 180,000 barrels per day, direct operating expenses to range between $105 million and $115 million, and total capital spending to be between $35 million and $40 million. For the Fertilizer segment, we estimate our ammonia utilization rate to be between 93% and 97%, with some downtime planned as it needs to be in the quarter.

展望 2025 年第二季度，對於我們的石油部門，我們估計總吞吐量約為每天 16 萬至 18 萬桶，直接營運費用在 1.05 億美元至 1.15 億美元之間，總資本支出在 3,500 萬美元至 4,000 萬美元之間。對於化肥部門，我們估計我們的氨利用率在 93% 至 97% 之間，並且本季度根據需要計劃了一些停工時間。

We expect direct operating expenses, excluding inventory impacts, to be between $57 million and $62 million, and total capital spending to be between $18 million and $22 million. For the Renewables segment, we estimate second-quarter 2025 total throughput to be approximately 16 million to 20 million gallons, direct operating expenses to range between $8 million and $10 million, and total capital spending to be between $2 million and $4 million.

我們預計直接營運費用（不包括庫存影響）將在 5,700 萬美元至 6,200 萬美元之間，總資本支出將在 1,800 萬美元至 2,200 萬美元之間。對於再生能源部門，我們估計 2025 年第二季的總吞吐量約為 1,600 萬至 2,000 萬加侖，直接營運費用在 800 萬至 1,000 萬美元之間，總資本支出在 200 萬至 400 萬美元之間。

With that, Dave, I'll turn it back over to you.

戴夫，有了這個，我就把話題交還給你了。

Thanks, Dane. Refining market conditions began to improve in the first quarter due, in part, to a heavy spring maintenance season and the closure of one US refinery. Several more closures have been announced in the US and in Europe for '25 and '26. Recent data from EIA indicates days of gasoline supply are 12% below the five-year average, while diesel is currently 17% below. Within the MidCon where we operate, days of supply for gasoline supply are currently 8% below the five-year average, and diesel is nearly 13% below.

謝謝，丹恩。第一季煉油廠市場狀況開始好轉，部分原因是春季維護旺季和一家美國煉油廠的關閉。美國和歐洲已宣佈在 2025 年和 2026 年關閉更多工廠。EIA 的最新數據顯示，汽油供應天數比五年平均值低 12%，而柴油供應天數目前比五年平均值低 17%。在我們營運的 MidCon 地區，汽油供應天數目前比五年平均值低 8%，柴油供應天數低近 13%。

Given the improvement in supply and demand fundamentals and the increase in RIN prices, we are surprised that cracks are not higher. In the near term, the evolving tariff environment and associated concerns in the market around potential demand impacts will likely weigh on the market to some degree. As it relates to tariffs and our refining assets, we are relatively well-positioned given our location at MidCon and our limited exposure to Canadian crude oil.

鑑於供需基本面的改善和 RIN 價格的上漲，我們對裂解價差沒有擴大感到驚訝。短期內，不斷變化的關稅環境以及市場對潛在需求影響的相關擔憂可能會在一定程度上對市場造成壓力。就關稅和我們的煉油資產而言，鑑於我們位於 MidCon 且對加拿大原油的曝險有限，我們處於相對有利的地位。

Unlike other refiners in Pad 2 that are more dependent on heavy Canadian crude oil, we typically only run a few thousand barrels per day of WCS at Coffeyville and sell the remainder at Cushing. If those barrels are ultimately not economic, we can run the Coffeyville refinery at full rates with no Canadian crude oil at all.

與 Pad 2 中其他更依賴加拿大重質原油的煉油廠不同，我們通常每天僅在科菲維爾加工數千桶 WCS，並將其餘的原油賣到庫欣。如果這些原油最終不具經濟效益，我們可以在完全不使用加拿大原油的情況下讓科菲維爾煉油廠滿載運轉。

During the turnaround at Coffeyville, we completed tie-ins for the initial phase of the distillate recovery project. This project should give us the ability to increase Coffeyville's distillate yield by approximately 2%, and we have a similar project planned at Wynnewood that has already been received board approval.

在科菲維爾的轉變期間，我們完成了餾分油回收計畫初始階段的連結工作。該項目將使我們能夠將 Coffeyville 的餾出物產量提高約 2%，並且我們計劃在 Wynnewood 實施一個類似的項目，並且已經獲得董事會的批准。

Over the next few months, we plan to install some additional piping and revamp some of our tankage at Coffeyville, which should enable us to make up to 9,000 barrels a day of jet by the end of the third quarter. We also have the potential to increase capacity further with additional investment. We believe the opportunity to ship barrels to the West will continue to grow over the next several years and with jet fuel being a likely important part of the mix.

在接下來的幾個月裡，我們計劃安裝一些額外的管道並改造位於科菲維爾的一些儲油罐，這將使我們能夠在第三季末每天生產多達 9,000 桶的噴射燃料。我們也可以藉助額外投資進一步提高產能。我們相信，未來幾年向西方運輸石油的機會將繼續成長，而航空燃料很可能成為其中的重要組成部分。

As a reminder, jet fuel production is not subject to an RVO, and shifting production from diesel to jet fuel would reduce our annual RIN obligations. We also continue to make progress on the Wynnewood Appalachian Project that, when completed, would eliminate usage of HF acid and provide a margin-capture improvement opportunities through increased production of premium gasoline.

提醒一下，航空燃料生產不受 RVO 約束，將生產從柴油轉向航空燃料將減少我們的年度 RIN 義務。我們也繼續推進 Wynnewood Appalachian 項目，該項目完成後將消除 HF 酸的使用，並透過增加優質汽油的產量提供提高利潤的機會。

In the Renewables segment, we completed a catalyst change in January and we continue to run the unit at 5,000 barrels per day in an effort to optimize yield and catalyst life. RIN prices have increased over the past few months due in part to the significant decline in D4 RIN generation after the expiration of the blender's tax credit at the end of 2024.

在再生能源領域，我們於一月份完成了催化劑更換，並繼續以每天 5,000 桶的速度運行該裝置，以優化產量和催化劑壽命。過去幾個月 RIN 價格上漲，部分原因是 2024 年底混合器稅收抵免到期後 D4 RIN 產量大幅下降。

As we continue to evaluate whether the Renewables business makes sense, we currently intend to operate the renewable diesel unit at similar rates while we await clarity on the BTC and/or see the final rules on the BTC. As we stated in our last earnings call, we remain fully willing to participate in the Renewables space but cannot invest additional time and capital without further assurance the government will support the businesses it created.

當我們繼續評估再生能源業務是否合理時，我們目前打算以類似的速度運作再生柴油裝置，同時等待 BTC 的明確性和/或查看 BTC 的最終規則。正如我們在上次財報電話會議上所說，我們仍然完全願意參與再生能源領域，但如果沒有政府進一步保證支持其創建的業務，我們就不能投入額外的時間和資金。

In the Fertilizer segment, recent USDA estimates are calling for an inventory carryout levels for corn and soybeans at 10% or less. The spring planting season is well underway, and the weather has been favorable. With the USDA estimating 95 million acres of corn planted this year, we expect to see strong fertilizer demand for the spring, and prices have been increasing over the past few months.

在化肥領域，美國農業部最近的估計顯示，玉米和大豆的庫存結轉水準應為 10% 或更低。春耕種植季節正在順利進行，天氣狀況良好。美國農業部估計今年玉米種植面積為 9,500 萬英畝，我們預計春季化肥需求強勁，而且過去幾個月價格一直在上漲。

Looking at the second quarter of 2025, quarter-to-date metrics are as follows: Group 2-1-1 cracks have averaged $24.67 per barrel, with the Brent TI spread at $3.39 per barrel, and the WCS differential at $9.55 per barrel under WTI. The HOBO spread has averaged a negative $1.47 per gallon. As of yesterday, Group 3 2-1-1 cracks were $27.15, Brent TI was $3.65, and WCS was $9.6 under WTI. The HOBO spread was a negative $1.62 per gallon, and RINs were approximately $6.42 per barrel. Prompt fertilizer prices are approximately $600 a tonne for ammonia and $380 per tonne for UAN.

展望 2025 年第二季度，本季迄今的指標如下：2-1-1 組裂解價差平均為每桶 24.67 美元，布倫特 TI 價差為每桶 3.39 美元，WTI 下的 WCS 價差為每桶 9.55 美元。HOBO 價差平均為每加侖負 1.47 美元。截至昨日，第 3 組 2-1-1 裂解價差為 27.15 美元，布倫特 TI 價差為 3.65 美元，WCS 價差為 WTI 價差 9.6 美元。HOBO 價差為每加侖負 1.62 美元，而 RIN 價差約為每桶 6.42 美元。目前化肥價格約為：氨每噸 600 美元，UAN 每噸 380 美元。

With the large turnaround at Coffeyville behind us, we are well positioned to capitalize on any and all continued improvements in the refining sector as we approach the summer driving season, and we look forward to the remainder of 2025 and '26 with no additional plant refinery turnarounds.

隨著科菲維爾工廠的大規模改造，隨著夏季駕駛季節的臨近，我們已做好準備，充分利用煉油行業持續不斷的改進，我們期待 2025 年剩餘時間和 2026 年不再有其他煉油廠的改造。

In addition to our constant focus on safe, reliable operations at our facilities, we will prioritize efforts to reduce debt and restore our balance sheet to targeted leverage ratios as soon as we can, subject to market and other conditions. We also continue to look for ways to improve capture, reduce costs, and ultimately grow our business profitably.

除了持續關注設施的安全可靠運作之外，我們還將根據市場和其他條件優先努力減少債務，並儘快將資產負債表恢復到目標槓桿率。我們也持續尋找提高捕獲率、降低成本並最終實現業務獲利成長的方法。

With that, we're ready for questions, Operator.

好了，我們已經準備好回答問題了，接線生。

(Operator Instructions) Manav Gupta, UBS.

（操作員指示）Manav Gupta，瑞銀。

Good morning, guys. I wanted to understand a little bit more on the refining macro. On one hand, you are indicating that you actually believe that market conditions did improve; and if it was not for the tariffs, you believe the cracks would be higher. So I'm just trying to understand, do you see a pretty strong demand or at least resilient demand in the regions in which you are operating versus a possibility of a recession, which could actually mean significantly lower demand? So help us understand what you're seeing in terms of refined product demand out there in the markets you operate.

大家早安。我想多了解煉油宏觀。一方面，您表明您確實相信市場狀況確實有所改善；如果沒有關稅，您相信裂縫會更大。所以我只是想了解一下，您是否認為您所在地區的需求相當強勁，或者至少是有彈性的需求，而經濟衰退的可能性實際上可能意味著需求大幅下降？因此，請幫助我們了解您所經營的市場對成品油的需求。

Well, Manav, I think as I mentioned in the prepared remarks, the days of supply have shrunk quite a bit compared to the five-year average, which indicates to us that the supply-demand balance is correcting itself. Some of that may be due to the heavy turnaround season for the spring, but in general, I think it shows a little bit more discipline in the market.

嗯，馬納夫，我想正如我在準備好的發言中提到的那樣，與五年平均水平相比，供應天數已經縮短了不少，這表明供需平衡正在自我修正。部分原因可能是由於春季的周轉季節較為繁忙，但總的來說，我認為這表明市場更加自律。

As that wears off, it would be interesting to see what demand does in the summer season and how much of an uptick we get in gasoline. Diesel is still a little bit slow, but inventories are telling me that the crack's probably a little bit low from where it should be. And of course, offsetting it all is this increase in the RVO and the rent price that accelerated almost $2 in the quarter.

隨著這種勢頭逐漸消退，看看夏季需求如何變化以及汽油價格上漲多少將會很有趣。柴油價格仍然有點低，但庫存告訴我，裂解價差可能比應有的水平低了一點。當然，抵銷這一切的是 RVO 的成長和本季租金價格上漲了近 2 美元。

Perfect, guys. A quick question here on the RVO and SRE side, I mean, Trump administration last time in office understood the importance of SREs. So that's one. The other that we are hearing out there is they actually want to raise the RVO on the D4 side with the multiple participants being involved in the discussion. So how do you see this playing out? And in your opinion, is the right way to decouple D4 and D6 and let them operate separately? Help us understand what would be the best solution in your opinion. Thank you.

太棒了，夥計們。關於 RVO 和 SRE 方面的一個簡單的問題，我的意思是，川普政府上次執政時就了解 SRE 的重要性。這就是其中之一。我們聽到的另一個消息是，他們實際上想在 D4 方面提高 RVO，並且有多名參與者參與了討論。那麼您認為結果會如何？您認為將 D4 和 D6 分開並讓它們獨立運作是否正確？幫助我們了解您認為最好的解決方案是什麼。謝謝。

Well, this is, as you know, is a highly controversial issue. But we do believe decoupling 4s from 6s is an important move. And the only way it can really happen is if the D6 mandate is lowered or is something below an E10 that would really -- and is really adjusted for volume. Because having it fixed at $15 billion, which, by the way, is the majority of the $22 billion, $23 billion mandate, really just drives D4s into having to make it up because the volumes are not there.

嗯，正如你所知，這是一個極具爭議的問題。但我們確實認為將 4 與 6 脫鉤是重要舉措。而真正實現這一目標的唯一方式是，如果 D6 授權降低或低於 E10，那麼就會真正 — — 並且真正根據數量進行調整。因為將其固定在 150 億美元，順便說一下，這是 220 億美元、230 億美元授權中的大部分，這實際上只是迫使 D4 不得不彌補，因為數量不夠。

All that said, again, the government created these businesses. And what they did with the RVO that was issued three years ago was just cut the legs out from under it and generate a lot of excess D4s and just kind of messed the whole thing up. And then the BTC expired, which is -- which automatically increases the RIN price. So who suffers out of all this? Well, it's the driving public, the American citizen that is the hard-working man and woman who really depend on low-cost fuel to really drive the economy.

話雖如此，但政府還是創造了這些企業。而他們對三年前發布的 RVO 所做的就是將其從下方切斷，並產生大量多餘的 D4，從而把整個事情搞砸了。然後 BTC 到期，這會自動提高 RIN 價格。那麼，誰會遭受這一切呢？嗯，是駕駛大眾，是辛勤工作的美國公民，他們真正依靠低成本燃料來推動經濟發展。

So I think the government's got a lot of thinking to do. In our minds, what they should do is do everything they can to minimize RIN prices just because it affects the driving public. That said, on the other hand, they should set production on renewable diesel and biodiesel to what the production capabilities are, which they have not done. And the law kind of implies that's what should be done. So as I've said many times, this RFS was poorly conceived, poorly written, poorly implemented, and poorly managed. And I don't see that changing.

所以我認為政府還有很多事情要思考。在我們看來，他們應該做的就是盡一切努力降低 RIN 價格，因為這會影響駕駛大眾。話雖如此，但另一方面，他們應該根據生產能力來設定再生柴油和生物柴油的產量，但他們還沒有這樣做。法律也暗示了這是應該做的。因此，正如我多次說過的，這個 RFS 構思很糟糕、寫不好、實作糟糕、管理很糟糕。我不認為這種情況會改變。

Thank you, sir.

謝謝您，先生。

You're welcome.

不客氣。

Matthew Blair, Tudor Pickering.

馬修布萊爾、都鐸皮克林。

Hey, good morning, Dave, and congrats on the positive RD EBITDA result in the first quarter, even without the 45C. Could you talk about how things are progressing so far in the second quarter? Do you still expect to be EBITDA positive in Q2? And then some of your peers have been recording the 45C benefit, so could you talk about what you need to see to get more comfortable in recording the 45C for CVR?

嘿，早上好，戴夫，祝賀您第一季度取得了正的 RD EBITDA 業績，即使沒有 45C。您能談談第二季迄今的進展嗎？您仍預期第二季的 EBITDA 為正嗎？然後，您的一些同行一直在記錄 45C 的好處，那麼您能否談談您需要看到什麼才能更輕鬆地記錄 CVR 的 45C？

Sure. Well, I don't know that we see much changing other than RINs going up in the second quarter, and that obviously is helping our margins in renewable diesel. Bean oil has also gone up, and HOBO, as I mentioned, has gone more negative than ever. So all those offsets, all depends on what basis does, as well as our hedging strategy on the feedstocks and the product. So that's kind of where we sit today. As far as the BTC and recognizing that, Dane, you want to address that?

當然。嗯，除了第二季 RIN 上漲之外，我不知道我們還會看到什麼變化，這顯然有助於提高我們的再生柴油利潤率。大豆油也上漲了，而正如我所提到的，HOBO 的跌幅比以往任何時候都要大。因此，所有這些抵消都取決於基礎，以及我們對原料和產品的對沖策略。這就是我們今天的處境。至於 BTC 並認識到這一點，Dane，你想解決這個問題嗎？

Yes, Matt. The notice that the IRS put out in January just left a number of questions as to what specifically counts as a qualifying sale. We just wanted to get a little more comfort and clarity around the qualifying sale provisions that are out before we go ahead and book anything.

是的，馬特。美國國稅局一月份發布的通知留下了一些問題，即什麼才算合格銷售。我們只是想在預訂任何東西之前，對現有的合格銷售條款有更清晰的了解和理解。

In addition to that, there's still a lot of talk around what the actual BTC credit value could be. Just for reference, we could ballpark the number we didn't book, around $2 million, and we don't lose the ability to book that going forward. It's just we want more certainty before we take it. So a little bit of a conservative position while things shake out.

除此之外，關於 BTC 實際信用價值的討論仍然很多。僅供參考，我們可以估算出未預訂的金額約為 200 萬美元，而且我們不會失去未來預訂該金額的能力。我們只是希望在採取行動之前獲得更多的確定性。因此，在事情發展的過程中，我們會採取稍微保守的立場。

Thanks. That's helpful. And then my follow up is around refiner M&A and the potential for industry consolidation. So if we look back over the past 10 years, which I think covers a range of environments, there's been pretty significant outperformance by the large-cap refiners.

謝謝。這很有幫助。接下來我的重點是煉油廠併購以及產業整合的可能性。因此，如果我們回顧過去 10 年，我認為這涵蓋了一系列環境，大型煉油商的表現相當出色。

And if we look forward, futures curves on the product side are a little weaker. Futures curves on crude differentials are relatively tight for inland barrels. It really seems like the benefits of economies of scale would be even greater going forward. And so my question is, do you agree with this assessment? And do you think that small refiners need to get bigger? And if so, do you think it will actually happen? Thank you.

如果我們展望未來，產品方面的期貨曲線會稍微弱一些。內陸原油的期貨價差曲線相對較緊。看起來規模經濟的好處在未來會變得更大。我的問題是，您是否同意這個評估？您認為小型煉油廠是否需要擴大規模？如果是這樣，您認為它真的會發生嗎？謝謝。

Well, a lot in that question, Matt. I think we would definitely agree with you. Economies of scale are the only way to survive these days. Some of our problem is that we're highly concentrated in the MidCon only. Anything we can do to diversify that is helpful as long as it's profitable. I do think there's potential out there for some more consolidation, although it's getting pretty thin on the counterparties that can even make any sense. But we definitely agree with your approach on that.

嗯，這個問題有很多內容，馬特。我想我們一定會同意你的看法。如今，規模經濟是唯一的生存之道。我們的問題在於我們僅高度集中在 MidCon。只要有利可圖，我們做的任何多樣化的事情都是有幫助的。我確實認為還有進一步整合的潛力，儘管有意義的交易對手已經越來越少。但我們絕對同意你的做法。

Great. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Neil Mehta, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的尼爾·梅塔。

All right, Dave and team, thanks for taking the time. My first question is on Coffeyville. Congratulations on getting that asset up and running. I know the turnaround took a little bit longer and extended into Q2, but just talk about what you achieved during that, the time to the next turnaround, and thoughts on the ability to start up, stay up.

好的，戴夫和團隊，感謝你們抽出時間。我的第一個問題是關於科菲維爾的。恭喜您成功啟動並運行該資產。我知道扭轉局面需要更長的時間，並延續到第二季​​度，但請談談您在此期間的成就、下一次扭轉局面所需的時間，以及對啟動和保持能力的看法。

Yes, Neil, I guess I would tell you this is not the way to do a turnaround. Having to come down early like we did, I mean, losing on naphtha, really, really hurt us. And that was in the dead of winter, of course, which didn't help either. And we had a pretty cool, I'll call it cool, not necessarily cold, winter. And when you get out of sequence, all kinds of things happen. You get a different team that may have been occupied somewhere else on your contractors.

是的，尼爾，我想我會告訴你這不是扭轉局面的方法。我們必須像以前那樣早早地下來，我的意思是，石腦油的損失真的對我們造成了很大的傷害。當然，那是在隆冬時節，這也無濟於事。我們度過了一個相當涼爽的冬天，我稱之為涼爽，但不一定寒冷。當你失去順序時，各種各樣的事情就會發生。您將獲得一個不同的團隊，該團隊可能已經在其他地方為承包商服務。

Just about anything that can go wrong went wrong for us in this turnaround. And it shows in the duration was extended. Whether or not we have an insurance claim to do, we're still contemplating. But it looks like, to me, that there's a good chance there could be something just because of the delays that hit us and the lack of productivity during the weather events and the other factors that happened that was out of our control.

在這次轉變中，幾乎所有可能出錯的事情都出錯了。並且表現為持續時間延長。我們是否需要提出保險索賠，我們仍在考慮。但在我看來，很有可能出現一些問題，只是因為我們遭遇了延誤，天氣事件導致生產力下降，以及其他我們無法控制的因素。

When you hit 45,000-man hours of pre-turnaround work that you needed to complete that -- before you start the turnaround and shove that into the turnaround, you can see how it is very disruptive. But I think we're through it, largely, and we're going to recover strong. We're looking forward to improved margins. It's been a bit of a drought since we've had the kind of margins we're seeing right now. And obviously, even despite rents being elevated, our profitability should be improved.

當你在開始扭虧為盈之前，需要完成 45,000 個工時的扭虧為盈前期工作時——你會發現它是多麼具有破壞性。但我認為我們基本上已經度過了難關，並且會強勢復甦。我們期待利潤率的提高。自從我們獲得現在這樣的利潤以來，情況一直不太好。顯然，即使租金上漲，我們的獲利能力也應該會提高。

Yes, makes sense. And then as assuming margins start to come back a little bit, how do you think about the potential to return the dividend? It's been a big part of the CVR story for a long time. So just curious on that. I have a couple other questions, and I'll queue back.

是的，有道理。然後假設利潤率開始回升，您如何看待返還股息的潛力？長期以來，它一直是 CVR 故事的重要組成部分。所以只是對此感到好奇。我還有其他幾個問題，我會再回答。

You've heard me say many times we're a dividend machine. We have taken a siesta on that a little bit here just because of where margins were for most of '24. But our goal, as I mentioned in our prepared remarks, is to pay down this additional debt that we took on, get back to normal, and start dividend at that time. Of course, the Board looks at it every month or every quarter, and I think they'll continue to do that. And if margins stay where they're at, we'll be looking at a dividend in the future.

您可能已經聽我說過很多次了，我們是一台分紅機器。我們在此稍事休息，只是因為 24 年大部分時間的利潤都在那裡。但正如我在準備好的發言中提到的那樣，我們的目標是償還我們承擔的額外債務，恢復正常，並開始分紅。當然，董事會每個月或每個季度都會審查這一點，我認為他們會繼續這樣做。如果利潤率維持現狀，我們將來就會看到股息。

Okay. I'll queue back in. Thanks, Dave.

好的。我會再排隊。謝謝，戴夫。

John Royall, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的約翰·羅亞爾。

Hi, good afternoon. Thanks for taking my question. So my first question is on the jet expansion at Coffeyville. When you spoke about that in 4Q, you mentioned at the time, one big constraint to think about or one big challenge to think about was building a book of customers to buy jet. Is there any update you can give on those efforts? Do you think that the demand will be there by the time you're ready to start producing?

嗨，下午好。感謝您回答我的問題。我的第一個問題是關於科菲維爾噴射機的擴建。當您在第四季度談到這一點時，您提到當時需要考慮的一個大限製或一個大挑戰是建立購買噴射機的客戶名錄。您能提供這些努力的最新進展嗎？您認為當您準備開始生產時，會有需求嗎？

Well, I think it will be, John. I mean, where we're at right now is a lot of the major airlines are on three-year bid contracts, and those are coming up for at least two of them in the N25. So we're anticipating that we'll achieve some of that business. So that's probably our greatest look. We also have our fuel by rail that we have that if the ARBs open to the west, we can move jet that way.

嗯，我想是的，約翰。我的意思是，目前的情況是，許多主要航空公司都簽訂了三年期的招標合​​同，其中至少有兩家 N25 航空公司的招標合同即將到期。因此，我們預計我們將實現部分業務。這可能是我們最好的樣貌。我們也透過鐵路運輸燃料，如果 ARB 向西開放，我們就可以透過鐵路運輸噴射機。

I don't think it's going to be a big problem, but it's going to take a little time to build a book of business. If you look at what we've done at Wynnewood, we've made jet there for years, and most of it was through a military contract. We lost that last year, and we've still been successful in moving jet out of the plant, so I don't think it is going to be a big problem.

我認為這不會是一個大問題，但建立一本商業書籍需要一點時間。如果你看看我們在溫尼伍德所做的事情，你會發現我們已經在那裡生產噴射機很多年了，而且大部分是透過軍事合約。我們去年失去了它，但我們仍然成功地將噴射機運出工廠，所以我認為這不會是一個大問題。

Great, thank you. And then my follow up is on the Renewables side. You talked about needing further assurance to get to a positive investment decision on a project within Renewables today. Can you talk about what would give you that type of assurance? Is it just finalizing the BTC rules and the LCFS plan and getting the RFS complete? Or would you need some sort of longer-term assurance? Is it more than just the near-term rules?

太好了，謝謝。接下來我要關注的是再生能源方面。您談到需要進一步的保證才能對當今再生能源專案做出積極的投資決策。您能談談什麼能給您這種保證嗎？這只是最終確定 BTC 規則和 LCFS 計劃並完成 RFS 嗎？或者您需要某種長期保證？它是否不僅僅是近期的規則？

Well, if there's one thing we've learned in the renewable diesel business is that you can't count on credits. They change, the government administrations change, you get different philosophies, and the approach we've taken is largely we're willing to do SAF if somebody is willing to take the credit risk. We'll give them the credits that are there, but we're not going to take it ourselves. And that just kind of summarizes renewable diesel and SAF to me across the board.

好吧，如果說我們在再生柴油業務中學到了一件事的話，那就是你不能依賴信貸。他們在變，政府管理在變，你會得到不同的理念，而我們採取的方法主要是如果有人願意承擔信貸風險，我們願意做 SAF。我們會給予他們應有的榮譽，但我們自己不會奪走。這就是對我而言對再生柴油和 SAF 的全面總結。

We have a larger project at Coffeyville that we've put together and designed and have a cost estimate done on it, but it's a 500-million-gallon-a-year plant, and it's costly. But if SAF is really needed and renewable diesel, we could design that for 100% SAF if we wanted to. We sit in the middle of the ag area. Certainly, for corn oil, we're advantaged. And that's a low-CI feedstock, so there's a lot we can do. But we're not going to do it if we can't trust the government to provide a steady stream of credits that when you're taking a $4 or $5 oil and trying to shove it into a $2 market, it just doesn't work.

我們在科菲維爾有一個更大的項目，我們已經組織、設計並完成了成本估算，但這是一個年產 5 億加侖的工廠，成本很高。但如果確實需要 SAF 和再生柴油，我們可以設計 100% SAF。我們坐在農業區的中間。當然，對於玉米油來說，我們是具有優勢的。這是一種低 CI 原料，所以我們可以做很多事情。但是，如果我們不相信政府能夠提供穩定的信貸，我們就不會這麼做，因為當你把 4 美元或 5 美元的石油推向 2 美元的市場時，這是行不通的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

You're welcome.

不客氣。

Paul Cheng, Scotiabank.

加拿大豐業銀行的 Paul Cheng。

Hey, guys. Good morning or good afternoon. Dane, maybe you can help me. I still couldn't understand why the Renewables result is so good. In the fourth quarter, your gross margin is $1.13; and in the first quarter, $1.15, In the first quarter, you are doing about $0.93, but you lost BTC. That's $1 per gallon. So I mean, what else is in there? In other words, is the first quarter really a good baseline or that there's something related to your hedging program or the way how you count the inventory, and as a result, that's not a totally good baseline?

嘿，大家好。早安或下午好。丹恩，也許你可以幫助我。我還是不明白為什麼再生能源的結果如此好。第四季度，您的毛利率為1.13美元；而第一季度，您的收益為 1.15 美元，第一季度，您的收益約為 0.93 美元，但您損失了 BTC。即每加侖 1 美元。所以我的意思是，裡面還有什麼？換句話說，第一季真的是一個很好的基準嗎？或者這與您的對沖計劃或您計算庫存的方式有關，因此，這不是一個完全好的基準？

Yes, well, I think you hit one of them on the head. There was about a $0.14 per gallon favorable realized hedge in place just associated with the inventory. In addition to that, the elevated RINs price picked up another, call it, $0.10, $0.15 a gallon. So those two just gave us a lift right away. There were some inventory impacts, maybe another $0.10 to $0.15, something like that.

是的，嗯，我想你擊中了其中一​​個人的頭。與庫存相關的有利對沖約為每加侖 0.14 美元。除此之外，RIN 價格還上漲了每加侖 0.10 美元或 0.15 美元。所以那兩個人就立刻載了我們一程。有一些庫存影響，大概是 0.10 美元到 0.15 美元左右，諸如此類。

So to say it's a good baseline, there were some items that were, call it, maybe exceptional for the period. We'll of course keep deploying the same strategy we have and see what results come out of it in the volatile market of renewable diesel. The one thing that was different that is probably more baseline is just our feedstock basis was much improved.

所以說這是一個好的基準，有些專案在那個時期可能是特殊的。當然，我們將繼續部署相同的策略，並觀察其在動盪的再生柴油市場中會產生什麼樣的結果。唯一不同的是，可能更基本的一點是我們的原料基礎得到了很大的改善。

Really, one of our highest-cost feedstocks was lower than our lowest-cost feedstock in the prior period, which is really a testament to having the pre-treater on, getting into that feed, getting better yields, and running more reliably. So from that component, I would say you could baseline there that we've improved that. But as far as some of the other items go, I wouldn't want to say that's a permanent fixture in the volatile market that RD is.

實際上，我們成本最高的原料之一的價格低於前一時期成本最低的原料，這確實證明了預處理器的開啟、原料的進入、產量的提高以及運行的可靠性。因此，從這個組件來看，我想說您可以從那裡開始，我們已經對其進行了改進。但就其他一些項目而言，我不想說這是 RD 這種動盪市場中的永久固定項目。

And yield was up too, Paul. So I mean, don't underestimate that. A 5% yield improvement goes a long way.

保羅，收益率也上升了。所以我的意思是，不要低估這一點。5% 的收益率提升意義重大。

Well, I'm trying to say -- okay, I mean, if you report $0.93 based on, Dane, what you say about those three items, it's roughly about $0.45. So is that a good baseline that we can use to project forward? It's assuming somewhere in the $0.45, and that's not including BTC at all. That seems like it's a phenomenal number, comparing to some of your larger competitors, what they report.

好吧，我想說的是——好的，我的意思是，如果根據 Dane 對這三項內容的描述，您報告的價格為 0.93 美元，那麼大約就是 0.45 美元。那麼這是我們可以用來預測未來的一個好基準嗎？假設價格在 0.45 美元左右，而且根本不包括 BTC。與一些較大的競爭對手的報告相比，這似乎是一個驚人的數字。

So I guess I would say, Paul, if you're referencing an adjusted margin, it was $0.85, 4Q; $0.93, in 1Q. That takes out that inventory benefit that I referenced. So the $0.08 improvement, I mean, you got $0.15 from hedging. You've got another $0.10 or so. So if you take out that $0.20, you'd be in the $0.70 range. That is excluding BTC, which would be an incremental kicker. But again, I think the market's so volatile that I wouldn't want to set a baseline of expectations for how much these markers move around.

所以我想我會說，保羅，如果你參考調整後的利潤率，它是 0.85 美元，第四季度；第一季度，0.93 美元。這就消除了我提到的庫存收益。所以 0.08 美元的改善，我的意思是，你從對沖中獲得了 0.15 美元。您還得到了另外 0.10 美元左右。因此，如果您拿出那 0.20 美元，那麼您將處於 0.70 美元的範圍內。這還不包括 BTC，這將是一個增量衝擊。但我再次認為，市場波動太大，我不想為這些標記的波動幅度設定預期基準。

Right, I understand. And Dane, there's the hedging, the $0.14 benefit from the hedging. Are we continue going to see that into the second and third quarter, or that the hedging benefit will just disappear, or will that reverse?

好的，我明白了。戴恩，這是對沖，對沖帶來 0.14 美元的收益。我們是否會在第二季和第三季繼續看到這種情況，或者對沖收益將會消失，或者情況會逆轉？

Paul, that hedging is really around price-exposed inventory or excess inventory. So we'll take a protective position, a short position on any excess inventories. So from that perspective, again, subject to what the market does and how our feed performs.

保羅，對沖實際上是圍繞價格暴露的庫存或過剩庫存。因此，我們將採取保護性立場，對任何過剩庫存採取空頭立場。因此從這個角度來看，這又取決於市場表現和我們的供稿表現。

I see. And Dave, you -- I think in the past that -- and you say it here again about the economy of scale, the desire for diversification beyond your Current footprint. Where are we in that whole exercise at this point? Are we essentially, say, just waiting for other people to come to you, or that is still being actively pursued? Is there any color that you can share?

我懂了。戴夫，我想你過去也曾在這裡提到過規模經濟，以及超越現有業務範圍的多元化願望。我們現在進行到整個演習的哪個階段了？我們本質上是否只是在等待其他人來找你，還是我們仍在積極追求這個目標？有沒有什麼顏色可以分享？

Well, nothing I can really share, Paul. As we've said before, we really -- we look at everything that comes on the market and try to screen it through our picture. Historically, to date, the bid-ask has been too wide for us. And thank goodness, because the market really took a hit in 2024, come off a record year in '23, and go to just a record low year in '24. I think we're pretty conservative. I won't say we're bottom fishers, but we're pretty close to that, and we're not going to overpay for an asset.

嗯，保羅，我真的沒什麼可以分享的。正如我們之前所說，我們確實——我們會觀察市場上出現的所有產品，並嘗試透過我們的圖片來篩選它們。從歷史上看，迄今為止，買賣價差對我們來說過大。值得慶幸的是，因為市場在 2024 年確實受到了打擊，在 23 年創下了歷史新高，而在 24 年則跌至歷史最低點。我認為我們相當保守。我不會說我們是抄底者，但我們已經非常接近了，而且我們不會為資產支付過高的價格。

Can I just make one clarification? I think, Dane, you earlier said that $2 million for the BTC if you will be able to fully book it for the quarter, do I get the number right?

我可以澄清一點嗎？我認為，Dane，你之前說過，如果你能夠在本季完全預訂 BTC，那麼 BTC 的價格為 200 萬美元，我理解的數字對嗎？

That is correct. And as I mentioned, there's ongoing debate around what the value of the BTC is based on your feed, and there's some questions out there. So that number I wouldn't say is final. But based on some of the rumors we've heard or some of the conversations that are going on, that could be a conservative number.

沒錯。正如我所提到的，關於根據您的資訊流計算 BTC 的價值一直存在爭議，並且存在一些疑問。所以我不會說這個數字是最終的。但根據我們聽到的一些傳言或正在進行的一些對話，這可能是保守的數字。

It could be double that.

可能是這個數字的兩倍。

Okay, will do. Thank you.

好的，我會的。謝謝。

You're welcome, Paul.

別客氣，保羅。

Neil Mehta, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的尼爾·梅塔。

Two quick ones. Dave, you always have great perspective on US shale. I mean, TI is pushing on $60 at this point. What's your perspective on US oil growth, and what are the pricing levels that you think activity changes?

兩個簡單的。戴夫，你對美國頁岩氣的見解總是很深刻。我的意思是，TI 目前正努力將價格推高至 60 美元。您對美國石油成長有何看法？您認為活動會改變哪些價格水準？

Well, I think I've said many times is I think we're where -- it depends on the company you're talking about, but a lot of them are break-evens or being approached with the numbers we're at or just slightly break-evens, slightly below that. Very much depends on the region you're in. Obviously, Permian's probably the lowest, and Arco or DJ Basin or some of those others are probably the higher, or Bakken too.

嗯，我想我已經說過很多次了，我認為我們處於什麼位置——這取決於你談論的公司，但很多公司都實現了收支平衡，或者接近我們所處的數字，或者只是略微收支平衡，略低於這個數字。這很大程度上取決於您所在的地區。顯然，二疊紀可能是最低的，而 Arco 或 DJ Basin 或其中一些可能較高，或者 Bakken 也是。

So it really depends on where you're at, and the rigs are falling. I expect that to continue. And we've had, in our basin, Antarctica, had really probably pretty big growth, but it's really one player. What they're going to go do from here on out, we really don't know. Our gathering volumes are still pretty strong but anticipating they're going to fall off a little bit.

所以這實際上取決於你所在的位置以及鑽孔機的墜落位置。我希望這種情況能夠持續下去。在我們的流域，南極洲，確實可能有相當大的成長，但實際上只有一個參與者。我們真的不知道他們接下來會做什麼。我們的收集量仍然相當強勁，但預計會略有下降。

All right. Well, we'll keep on watching. The other one's a little trickier that I think a lot of the investment community is a little confused about all the insider activity at the company. I don't know if anything you can comment around that. It's just -- it's unusual.

好的。好吧，我們會繼續關注。另一個問題有點棘手，我認為許多投資界人士對公司的所有內部活動感到有點困惑。我不知道您是否可以對此發表任何評論。這只是——這很不尋常。

Yes, we probably can't comment much on that. You'd probably have to ask them themselves.

是的，我們可能無法對此發表太多評論。你可能得問他們自己。

Okay, thanks. I figured. Thanks, Dave.

好的，謝謝。我估計。謝謝，戴夫。

You're welcome, Neil.

別客氣，尼爾。

We have reached the end of the question-and-answer session. I would now like to turn the floor back over to management for closing comments.

問答環節已結束。現在我想將發言權交還給管理階層，請他們發表最後評論。

Again, I'd like to thank you all for your interest in CVR Energy. Additionally, I'd like to thank our employees for their hard work and commitment to our safe, reliable, and environmentally responsible operations. We look forward to reviewing our second-quarter 2025 results in our next earnings call. Thank you very much.

再次感謝大家對 CVR Energy 的關注。此外，我還要感謝我們的員工為我們的安全、可靠和對環境負責的運作所做的努力和承諾。我們期待在下次財報電話會議上回顧 2025 年第二季的業績。非常感謝。

Ladies and gentlemen, this does conclude today's teleconference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation and have a wonderful day.

女士們、先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。現在您可以斷開線路。感謝您的參與並祝您有美好的一天。