Creative Realities Inc (CREX) 2011 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good day, ladies and gentlemen. And welcome to the Wireless Ronin Technologies Q2 2011 earnings conference call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. Later, we'll conduct a question-and-answer session, and instructions will follow at that time. (Operator Instructions). As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded.

I would now like to introduce your host for today's conference, Ms. Erin Haugerud. You may begin.

Thank you, and welcome, everyone, to our second quarter 2011 conference call. With me today are Scott Koller, President and CEO, and Darin McAreavey, Senior Vice President and CFO.

Following Scott's opening remarks, Darin will review our financial performance for the quarter and turn the call back over to Scott for an operational update and closing remarks. Then we will open up the call to your questions.

Today's call will be an interactive Webcast that will feature presentation slides of the second quarter 2011 financial results. To access the Webcast, please go the investor section of our corporate Website at www.wirelessronin.com.

Please note that the information presented and discussed today include forward-looking statements made under the safe harbor provisions of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Our actual results in future periods may differ materially, and you should not attribute undue certainty to our forward-looking statements.

Risks and uncertainties that could cause our actual results to differ from those expressed or implied by forward-looking statements, including those set forth in the Risk Factors section of our Annual Report on Form 10-K we filed on March 22nd, 2011.

In addition, our comments may contain certain non-GAAP financial measures, including non-GAAP operating loss per share. For additional information, including a reconciliation from GAAP results to non-GAAP measures, how the non-GAAP measures provide useful information, and why we use non-GAAP measures, please see the reconciliation section of our Press Release, which appears on our Website at www.wirelessronin.com.

I'll turn the call over to our President and CEO Scott Koller. Scott?

Thank you, Erin. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us today on today's call to discuss Wireless Ronin's second quarter 2011 results, which were issued in a press release after the close of market today.

Q2 marked our fifth consecutive quarter of year-over-year revenue growth as we continue to drive revenues and expand margins. Our improving top line and bottom line performance demonstrates the strong demand for our industry-leading digital signage and marketing technologies solutions. It also reflects our strategic shift from hardware-centric offerings to a higher-margin software and services business model.

But before I comment further about the quarter, I would now like to turn the call over to our CFO Darin McAreavey to take you through the financial details of our results. Afterward, I will talk about our operational highlights and business outlook. Darin?

Thanks, Scott, and good afternoon, everyone. As Scott mentioned, it was a record revenue quarter for Wireless Ronin. Our revenue increased 27% sequentially to a record $3.1 million as well as increased 59% over the same year-ago quarter. The increase was primarily attributable to a $1.8 million order received during the quarter for installations at 200 Chrysler dealerships.

Recurring revenue in Q2 generated from our hosting and support services was approximately $400,000 or 13% of total revenue. In fact, software revenue increased 184% over the same year-ago period to $623,000. This demonstrates our focus on increasing our higher-margin software and hosting services mix on an absolute and relative basis.

At the end of the quarter, we received purchase orders totaling approximately $1.6 million that were not recognized as revenue during Q2. We expect to fulfill these orders during Q3.

Revenue for the six months ended June 30th increased 82% from the same period a year ago to a record $5.5 million.

Gross margin in the second quarter of 2011 was 46%, which was unchanged from the prior quarter and declined two points from 48% for the second quarter of 2010. This was primarily due to a higher percentage of hardware sales during the second quarter of 2011.

On a GAAP basis, our Q2 net loss totaled $1.4 million or $0.07 per basic and diluted share. This is an improvement from our net loss of $2.3 million or $0.12 per basic and diluted share in the previous quarter, as well as an improvement from our net loss of $2.1 million or $0.12 per basic and diluted share in the same year-ago quarter. The improvement was driven by $500,000 of additional gross margin dollars when comparing Q2 to each of the two prior periods.

Net loss for the second quarter of 2011 included $178,000 of non-cash stock compensation expense. Excluding non-cash charges, our Q2 non-GAAP operating loss totaled $1.1 million or $0.06 per basic and diluted share, representing a $700,000 improvement from our loss of $1.8 million or $0.09 per basic and diluted share in the previous quarter, and a $600,000 improvement from a loss $1.7 million or $0.10 per basic and diluted share in the same year-ago quarter.

Now turning to the balance sheet, our net working capital position was $4.6 million at the end of the quarter compared to $5.6 million at the end of March 31st, 2011. As we mentioned on our last call in January, we renewed our $2.5 million line of credit with Silicon Valley Bank until March of 2012. We also drew down $500,000 on that line in Q2.

This completes my financial summary. For a more detailed and complete analysis of our Q2 results, I would like to direct everyone to our Form 10-Q, which we expect to file Friday, August 5th, and will be available at www.sec.gov and via our Website. And I'm also happy to answer any questions you have during the Q&A session of today's presentation.

Now for an overview of our operational activity and developments, I'd like to turn the call back over to Scott. Scott?

Thank you, Darin. Our strong financial performance in the second quarter resulted from our continuous and aggressive focus on revenue growth and margin expansion. Additionally, new client wins reflect the continued adoption of our leading digital signage and marketing technology solutions. In fact, we had several key wins during the quarter, including the $1.8 million purchase order from Chrysler, as Darin mentioned.

We also received orders for our iShowroom branded tower application to be installed in more than 150 Chrysler Fiat studio locations following a strong initial rollout in February. iShowroom runs on interactive and promotional screens visually and interactively assisting Fiat customers and sales specialists alike to the vehicle design and buying process.

Wireless Ronin provides the hardware, RoninCast software, content development, and 24/7, 365 support to its customer support center. In fact, in April, we received the 2011 Digital Screen Media Association Industry Excellence Award for our iShowroom application deployed at Chrysler Group dealerships.

In each of several categories, a panel of judges selected one winning project best demonstrating the integration of two or more technologies. iShowroom is a robust data-driven sales support system that provides -- matches buyer preferences to vehicle features, allowing the customer to create a wish list and view matching vehicles in dealer inventory. We believe the award validates our industry-leading digital signage software and technology solutions.

Subsequent to the quarter's end, we teamed up with the Alteris Group, a marketing company that delivers a range of video and digital media technologies to jointly offer Ford and Lincoln dealerships a service menu-board solution. Ford Motor Company wants to allow each Ford and Lincoln dealership, totaling 5,000 nationwide, the flexibility to display key pricing information while maintaining a corporate control of the primary advertising messages in each dealership.

RoninCast is the ideal solution for Ford because it facilitates both flexibility and control to address Ford's needs. We are excited to report that we have already received orders under this partnership. We are encouraged by the role our automotive solution plays in this marketplace, and we expect to see further adoption in this important vertical.

Our sales opportunities have never been stronger, particularly in QSR. We are currently working with six of the top 20 QSRs, primarily at corporately owned locations. We expect this QSR opportunity to increase when the FDA announces its anticipated new regulations for nutritional disclosure on menu boards. Our centralized digital solution will make operating in accordance with these new regulations less costly for independent franchise owners.

Along these lines, I'd like to provide an update on the FDA's proposed regulations that would require restaurant chains with 20 or more locations operating under the same brand to provide detailed nutritional information to consumers, including displaying calorie information on menus, menu boards, and dry food displays.

Comments were due to the FDA on July 5th with the final regulations set to be issued by the end of the year. It will be a minimum of six months and up to a year from the effective date for companies to comply. The compliance deadlines could be set as early as mid-2012.

There is no practical difference between six and 12 months for companies preparing to comply with these new requirements. To rollout compliant menus in six to 12 months will require immediate and dedicated efforts by restaurants and signage providers.

In June, we launched our Website showcasing our new marketing technology strategy, helping creatively transform the customer experience by offering innovative ways to reach customers and deliver a meaningful and measurable return on investment.

Enhancing customer value by providing an array of marketing technology solutions is the backbone of our plan. The goal is to leverage a coordinated marketing effort through an array of different technologies specifically designed and orchestrated for a particular client's business.

We take a comprehensive approach, creating cohesive solutions that include digital signage, interactive kiosks, mobile, social media, and Web to provide customers with business intelligence and data analytics. These drive effective business decisions to impact both top line results and bottom line margins.

Our focus is to maximize the profitability of in-person interactions and to extend the customer's relationship with our clients to increase the number and profitability of interactions. We have received strong validation for our approach, giving us confidence that the strategic direction we have developed will differentiate Wireless Ronin and align our solutions with our customers' marketing technology needs.

Also, during the quarter, we made two key additions to our Board of Directors, Michael Howe and Oz Tangun. Michael and Oz have played important roles in establishing this strategy as prior independent consultants to the Company. We expect their proactive approach to Board service and industry expertise will continue to be a positive influence on the Company.

Michael's invaluable experience as CEO of Arby's and Minute Clinic helps him shape and will now oversee implementation of our marketing technology strategy. Oz's long history with Wireless Ronin and his extensive Wall Street experience will guide us in matters of capital structure and investor communications as we continue to build long-term shareholder value.

Additionally, with the Company gaining momentum, it is important for us to engage a team of experienced investor relations professionals to communicate Wireless Ronin's message to shareholders and prospective investors.

Last month, we announced our engagement of Liolios Group, a company with a proven track record of assisting emerging growth companies, like us, in building quality long-term relationships with investors, analysts, money managers, and institutions. We're excited about the IR program Liolios has presented, and we're looking forward to the additional exposure its efforts will bring to our developing story.

We are dedicated to enhancing Wireless Ronin's credibility by meeting both client and investor expectations. We have an impressive list of loyal blue chip customers that we believe will continue to expand our pipeline and accelerate our growth.

As we work hard to grow our business, our key customers and partners continue to express confidence in our ability to meet their expectations, both today and into the future.

Further, we continue to push ourselves to optimize our organization, improve our processes, and reduce expenses. And we are committed to continuously improving our RoninCast product line through innovation and development.

In summary, our record quarterly results and the state of our business reflects strong positioning as well as favorable trends around the rapidly evolving digital signage and marketing technologies industry. Our clients need to reach customers and achieve a measurable return on investment using new marketing technologies, and this bodes well for our overall business outlook.

As this momentum builds, we believe Wireless Ronin is strategically positioned with industry-leading technologies to capture market share and drive recurring revenue. We are now at an exciting inflection point in our business, and we are confident our strategy will deliver increasing value for our shareholders.

Before we open the call to your questions, I'd like to express on behalf of the entire management team or gratitude and appreciation for the continuous support we received from our partners, customers, employees, and shareholders. Together, we've made tremendous progress in the second quarter with so much more to look forward to in the quarters to come.

Now with that, we're ready to open the call to your questions. Operator, please provide the appropriate instructions.

Thank you. (Operator Instructions). Our first question comes from Darren Aftahi of Northland Securities. Your line is open.

Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my questions.

Hey, Darren.

Hey, Darren.

So, couple things, first, on the $1.6 million backlog, could you maybe give us a little idea in terms of revenue type and then perhaps vertical? And then I've got two more follow ups.

Yes, I can answer that if you want, Scott. This is Darin. Yes, the majority of that would still be Chrysler related. We did have a portion of it for probably in that $200,000, $300,000 related to some hardware yet on the $1.8 million order that we did have that will be recognized here in the third quarter. And then there's a lot of, obviously, content, service-related work that we're doing for our iShowroom, e-learning.

So, those would be the bigger chunks. Chrysler of that $1.6 million was roughly about $800,000. And then we had a couple other larger projects included in that, one being Mall of America.

Okay. Great. And then if I kind of look at your kind of progress on the top line, do you guys still feel comfortable -- I know you said in the past kind of $4 million is a breakeven level. It looks like if you net out what you borrowed, your cash burn is a little over $2 million this quarter. You've got little over $3 million left. You feel like you're fully funded with the revolver and cash on the balance sheet to kind of get to where you need to on breakeven and maybe give us an update in terms of whether you still think that $4 million is a number to get you to breakeven.

Yes, obviously, again, we're focused more on working capital, and you can see where we only -- from a working capital perspective, we're down $1 million. I've got a $1.8 million receivable with Chrysler right now. So, that's why I've focused more on working capital. And again, we've got the line of credit.

So, we feel that we're adequately funded right now. We're focused on -- we're seeing the acceleration of the business. The top line's growing. The non-GAAP EBITDA losses is obviously improving sequentially here. And so, we're just focused on execution right now.

And will you realize that receivable, all of it in the third quarter?

Well, $1.6 million of the $1.8 million was recognized in Q2. So, the hardware that I referenced earlier in your initial question, that will be recognized in Q3.

Gotcha. Great. I'll -- .

-- It was all billed.

Fantastic. I'll jump back in the queue. Thanks.

Okay.

Thanks, Darren.

Thank you. Our next question comes from Marco Rodriguez of Stonegate Securities. Your line is open.

Good afternoon, guys. Thanks for taking my question.

Hey, Marco.

I just wanted to follow up, clarify something here on that last question. So, the $1.6 million that you recognized in revenues for Q1, the receivable, has that been collected already in Q2?

It was actually Q2. We received the order at the end of -- I'm sorry. What was that, Marco?

I apologize. Has it been already collected in Q3?

No, it's in our $3.3 million of receivables at the end of the quarter.

Okay. Okay.

We're under net 60 terms with Chrysler.

Okay. Okay. And then I was wondering if you could provide a breakout of revenues by your major clients.

Yes, I've got it right in front of me here. So, of the $3.1 million we did, Chrysler was $1.9 million of that. Fiat, because we get individual dealer enrollment forms, I broke that out separately as $420,000 of that number. Aramark was $200,000. Thomson Reuters was a little over $100,000. And it falls off pretty quickly after that.

Okay.

Those are the bigger chunks.

Sure. Sure. And then I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about your services and other revenue. It was kind of flat year over year and down sequentially. Can you kind of talk about what's driving that right now?

Obviously, the mix is between our ongoing hosting and recurring, which was $400,000 of the number. And then the balance is just going to be the level of work we get with Chrysler. We actually have, I would say, had more content e-learning-related work in the first quarter, less so in the second, although we're currently set up where we've got a blanket PO with Chrysler right now. So, we were fully expecting additional orders related to services-related work here in the third and fourth quarter of this year.

So, I think it's just really just the ebbs and flows of the timing of when that work comes in. And I would say it was stronger in the first, less so in the second. And we're expecting it to pick back up here in the third and fourth.

Yes, Marco, to add to that, if you think about fourth and first quarter when it comes to launching a new product line and updating iShowroom to enhance the new automobiles coming out, that's where we get a bulk of the work with Chrysler for the content and services side of it for updating iShowroom and other e-learning initiatives.

Okay. And then can you talk a little bit about the gross margins in that segment as well, kind of came down sequentially a fair amount.

Yes, we try to manage it the best we can. We obviously have access to contract labor, so just again with the ebbs and flows of the business, but we do have a fixed cost structure. So, when we have less billable work, it obviously has a negative impact in the margins. And that's what we saw in the second quarter.

And last question I have, you gave some nice commentary in regard to the QSR market. I was wondering if you have any other commentary in regard to seeing anybody maybe trying to get ahead of these regulations, get ahead of the game, if you will, or is it kind of just status quo, if you will?

No, I don't think status quo is the right nomenclature for that. In fact, I think the activity in that space is greater than we've ever seen from a standpoint of looking at the technology three years ago and how it may address this problem or this operational issue they have with getting calorie information up on the board to really understanding that getting the content from point A to point B and having it play when we want to is not the major hurdle they have to tackle.

We have clients now looking more at how they effectively breakaway from traditional day parts, understanding that they may have breakfast, lunch, and dinner, but they may have also a late-night crowd or a snack crowd from the 2.00 to 5.00 arena.

So, I think what we've seen our customers do is the belief that they can get content from point A to point B and get it to play when and where they want to is there. Now they're looking on how to optimize from traditional menu boards and really optimize the technology to. It's just full of capabilities.

So, the activity in that area has never been stronger. It's never been more aggressive, but driving it at the same time is the calorie information. Most of those folks, if not all of them, will have to address the calorie information in static or digital. And so, they'll be replacing menu boards regardless of what route they choose to go.

And so, would you characterize -- obviously understand that it's changing quite significantly from two years ago versus today. How would you characterize the activity versus this time last year or even at the tail end of fiscal '10?

Much more, much more activity than even last year, even in '09, when there was a lot of RFPs for people starting to put their toe into the technology and see how it might apply to their brand, but the activity has never really been more aggressive than we're seeing right now.

The difference -- I think the biggest difference is RFPs are actually looking for vendors, and then they're stating actual timelines on when they'll rollout the technology, when three years ago, it was they'll test the technology and determine how it fits their brand. So, I think it's much more aggressive and much more objective in the way they're looking at it.

Okay. Great. Thanks a lot, guys.

Thanks.

Thanks.

Thank you. (Operator Instructions). Our next question comes from Ty Lilja of Feltl & Company. Your line is open.

Hey, guys.

Hey, Ty.

Thanks for taking my questions.

Hey, Ty.

Hey. Couple questions, first of all, just with the new strategy, I was wondering if you were starting to get some visibility on some future content revenue. Outside of Chrysler, do you have anything you think could happen in the next couple quarters?

Absolutely. We've had -- our content continues to be a differentiator for the ability of our content engineering group working with the brand itself and their ad agencies and taking their vision, their logo, their story, and turning it into a piece of content we can manage remotely is a very strong asset of this company and has really driven some success at other pilots that was outside even the scope of the technology.

So, we're really proud of that group. And we do know that that will open up different streams of content revenue for us as we deliver that content in different -- an array of different methods. So, absolutely, we see the opportunity there.

Yes, and what's the -- how long would the typical sales cycle be on winning a deal like that? Is there -- does it take a certain amount of time to happen, or could it come up fairly quickly if a client decided they wanted to go ahead with the content development?

Yes, to put that in context, nowhere near the sales cycle we've experienced in rolling out a network. So, incrementally, being able to integrate, say, a QR or a text campaign into a loyalty program or to be able to -- any other type of content that's going to host a microsite and/or do some type of limited time offer promotion or marketing initiative on Facebook or some kind of social media outlet, turnaround time and that sales cycle is much faster than deploying a digital signage network.

So, I would expect the sales cycle to be much more traditional than that and not the digital signage pilot program that we have gone through. These aren't really pilot program-type initiatives. This is we need a piece of content and need it deployed. And it's really timely type initiative.

Is it -- would it be fair to say at this point that you've given the pitch to all your clients and that maybe you're bouncing some ideas back and forth about kind of broadening your engagement with them?

Absolutely. When we set out prior to launching it and we had finished the strategy, as hard as you may try to develop a strategy, as open minded as you can, it's still in a conference room and in a bit of a vacuum. So, you really felt like you put the bullet-proof vest together, but you haven't let any customers really take a shot at it.

So, we spent most of April, May, and June going out to all of our key customers, showing the direction we're going. And the feedback was really positive, two general comments. One was absolutely heading in the right direction. We have issues when it comes to promotion, a marketing initiative, a limited time offer, on making these silos of social, mobile, Web, and signage, in-store signage talk. And that one comment was we're heading in the right direction.

The other one is it just really affirmed to them that they had picked the right technology partner to begin with. So, I think they liked our approach, and they liked our looking at solving more than one problem for them.

All right. And just a last question, I think you guys were anticipating some further orders from Snap Fitness in the second half of the year. Do you have a sense of when those might go through?

Yes, we continue to do the installs for Snap Fitness. I don't have a total running count. But we are -- but I'm assuming by the end of the Q3 or by the end of the year, there will be 1,000 locations installed. I know we're 500-plus strong right now. But the installs have been -- they're throttled by Snap as they put -- they're doing the installs themselves. They're throttled by Snap. But, no, we continue to install Snap stores, and I am confident we'll have 1,000 installed by the end of the year.

Okay. Yes, all right. Well, thank you.

Thank you, Ty.

Thank you. Our next question comes from [Jim Scherer] of Stifel Nicolaus. Your line is open.

Hi, guys. How are you?

Great. How you doing, Jim?

Good, good. Thanks. Hey, quick question, it looks like everything with our existing clients is going very, very well and service and the whole 10 yards there. But, knowing -- to get to the next level, where we all want to be as shareholders, we need, of course, keep working on some new business. And my question kind of goes with two places. I know that for a long time we've been talking about KFC and possibly a bank. Are our conversations -- are we still keeping dialogue with those folks? Are we still moving ahead, or what's your thoughts on those?

Yes, absolutely, Jim. The opportunity with the bank, we've actually done some additional installs. I think we're up to 58 to 60 installs with that. The opportunity is still alive and present and continues to be banter back and forth with them on a weekly basis. So, it's still very much alive and well. And again, the target there is there's another -- close to 3,000 locations.

KFC continues to be there. And all QSRs are -- between QSR and automotive, 99.9% of our time is spent right there focusing on not only our current clients where we continue to see growth but new clients. We understand new client adoption, and leveraging our success of getting the pilots is only part of it. We need to leverage that into a rollout. So, absolutely, the number one primary focus of this company is revenue and performance right now. And it's going to take our current clients and new clients to help us achieve that objective.

Okay. And you feel like, compared to last year, that you folks are getting a lot of bids and a lot of that type of -- a lot more excitement now than you did in the past, so to speak.

Yes, sir. It's a continuing -- it's hard to in a call to give you a gauge of the momentum, but again, as I mentioned before, the objectives of our clients right now are much more pointed. They're much more timeline based. There's no longer really the experiment whether content can be delivered from point A to point B and managed centrally.

The conversation is how do we best maximize that technology now by effective day parting, by -- break it away from the traditional day part of breakfast, lunch, and dinner. There are a variety of different day parts. Even if every single item on your menu board needs to be up 24/7, it doesn't mean that all of them have to be emphasized the same way. The crowd is very much different in that snack hour from 2.00 to 5.00 than it is at lunch time.

So, I see our clients maximizing the technology now as they prepare to rollout instead of trying to test to see if companies like ours can get content from point A to point B. Does that make sense?

Yes, absolutely. Well, you hit everything good. Congratulations on this quarter, the great progress your team's making. And keep up the good work.

Thank you, Jim.

Thank you. (Operator Instructions). We have a question Arthur Friedman of Friedman Asset Management. Your line is open.

Yes, hi, guys. How you doing? Congratulations.

Thank you.

I just have one quick question. I was looking at the sales and cost of sales. And I was wondering, are you able to share with us just in terms of these three categories, hardware, software, and services, just the margins for each of those, just get a sense?

Yes, hold on here. I've got that in front of me. So, we're still averaging roughly 30% on our hardware and, again, primarily the media player that we resell that we're adding a lot of value to. So, we're able to command that type of a margin. Software is right around 90%. And our services were roughly 43% for the quarter.

Right, right. I just wanted to mention to everyone on the call that, on a few in the last three months recent trips around the country to Ohio area and the East Coast, I noticed that digital is just -- it's not like -- what's the word -- centralized. It's here and there, but it's appearing in the sense, as I look at the environment, it's appearing more and more. It's just an observation.

Yes, I would echo that.

Yes, we would echo that. You see an awful lot more, whether it's interactive, non-interactive, or a kiosk-type application. The adoption of it is definitely growing.

I just wanted to mention that, not a question, but it's just an observation. I was curious. Great job, guys. Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Thank you, Arthur. Thank you.

Thank you. Our next question comes from Joseph Novak of Novak Knowledge. Your line is open.

You haven't said anything about competition and how you're dealing with that. I know there's a lot of competition out there for digital signage.

Yes, there is a lot of competition. And one of the key elements and the key drivers to the strategic planning we did earlier in the year and rolled out was dealing exactly with that competition. Our space has an awful lot of apples-to-apples comparison.

At the end of our shareholder meeting, I sort of described that if you go from booth to booth to booth at a trade show, it'll be I have digital signage, but mine's better, or I have a network operations center, but mine's better, or content. And the reason we went down the path we did was to get beyond the apple-to-apple. We termed it beyond the shiny apple because we're just trying to sell a shinier apple there if that's the only differentiation we have.

And by addressing and talking to our clients, their other needs that when they launch any kind of promotion, any kind of initiative, any kind of limited time offer, that it's not just going into in-store signage. It's not just going in that environment. It has to go to social. It has to go to the Web. And it has to go mobile. And that's the day and age we're in.

And if we can come in and help them orchestrate any or all of those technologies in one fell swoop, we're adding a tremendous amount of value there. So the competition is there. There's people that continue to work on driving content from point A to point B. What we've really worked hard on the differentiation side is that point B may vary greatly, whether it's a tablet, a microsite, a smart phone, in-store signage, or whatnot. It can vary greatly.

So, we worked awfully hard on that differentiating factor for the Company.

That sounds encouraging. Thank you.

No, thank you.

(Operator Instructions). Okay. I'm showing no further questions in the queue at this time. Thank you for your participation. You may all disconnect, and have a wonderful day.