Cohu Inc (COHU) 2023 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to Cohu's Second Quarter 2023 Financial Results Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, Jeff Jones, Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. Please go ahead.

美好的一天，感謝您的支持。歡迎參加 Cohu 2023 年第二季度財務業績電話會議。 （操作員指示）請注意，今天的會議正在錄製中。現在我想將會議交給今天的發言人、高級副總裁兼首席財務官傑夫·瓊斯。請繼續。

Good morning and welcome to our conference call to discuss Cohu's Second Quarter 2023 Results and Third Quarter 2023 outlook. I'm joined today by our President and CEO, Luis Muller. If you need a copy of our earnings release, you may access it from our website at cohu.com or by contacting Cohu Investor Relations. There's also a slide presentation in conjunction with today's call that may be accessed on Cohu's website in the Investor Relations section. Replays of this call will be available via the same page after the call concludes.

早上好，歡迎參加我們的電話會議，討論 Cohu 2023 年第二季度業績和 2023 年第三季度展望。今天我們的總裁兼首席執行官路易斯·穆勒 (Luis Muller) 也加入了我的行列。如果您需要我們的收益發布副本，您可以從我們的網站 cohu.com 或聯繫 Cohu 投資者關係部訪問。今天的電話會議還有一個幻燈片演示，可以在 Cohu 網站的投資者關係部分訪問。通話結束後，可通過同一頁面重播本次通話。

Now to the safe harbor. During today's call, we will make forward-looking statements reflecting management's current expectations concerning Cohu's future business. These statements are based on current information that we have assessed but which, by its nature is subject to rapid and even abrupt changes. We encourage you to review the forward-looking statements section of the slide presentation and the earnings release as well as Cohu's filings with the SEC including the most recently filed Form 10-K and Form 10-Q.

現在到安全​​港了。在今天的電話會議中，我們將做出前瞻性聲明，反映管理層當前對 Cohu 未來業務的預期。這些陳述基於我們評估的當前信息，但其本質可能會發生快速甚至突然的變化。我們鼓勵您查看幻燈片演示文稿和收益發布的前瞻性陳述部分以及 Cohu 向 SEC 提交的文件，包括最近提交的表格 10-K 和表格 10-Q。

Our comments speak only as of today, August 3, 2023, and Cohu assumes no obligation to update these statements for developments occurring after this call. Finally, during this call, we will discuss certain non-GAAP financial measures. Please refer to our earnings release and slide presentation for reconciliations to the most comparable GAAP measures. Now I'd like to turn the call over to Luis Muller, Cohu's President and CEO. Luis?

我們的評論僅代表今天（2023 年 8 月 3 日），Cohu 沒有義務就本次電話會議後發生的事態發展更新這些聲明。最後，在本次電話會議中，我們將討論某些非公認會計準則財務指標。請參閱我們的收益發布和幻燈片演示，了解與最具可比性的公認會計準則衡量標準的對賬。現在我想將電話轉給 Cohu 總裁兼首席執行官 Luis Muller。路易斯？

Good morning and thanks for joining us. Second quarter gross margin and profitability were strong driven by Cohu's resilient recurring business model. Q2 non-GAAP gross margin of 47.8% increased 130 basis points year-over-year and is better than our target financial model at this revenue level. Cohu's recurring business contributed 48% of second quarter revenue at approximately 55% gross margin. Our recurring business achieved a 3-year compound annual growth rate of 7% through Q2 and it is the key driver of Cohu's new baseline profitability through industry cycles.

早上好，感謝您加入我們。第二季度的毛利率和盈利能力在 Cohu 富有彈性的經常性業務模式的推動下表現強勁。第二季度非 GAAP 毛利率為 47.8%，同比增長 130 個基點，優於我們在此收入水平下的目標財務模型。 Cohu 的經常性業務貢獻了第二季度收入的 48%，毛利率約為 55%。我們的經常性業務在第二季度實現了 7% 的 3 年復合增長率，是 Cohu 在整個行業周期中實現新基線盈利能力的關鍵驅動力。

As communicated last quarter, we're expanding our infrastructure in the Philippines to support growth in our interface business. At the end of second quarter, we were approximately 60% through construction of a new 92,000 square foot facility that will become operational in the first half of 2024. We also continue working to expand the local supply chain to increase flexibility and quickly ramp production in support of customers' needs. In the second quarter, we received a first DI-Core software order from a European IDM for monitoring performance of Cohu third handlers.

正如上季度所傳達的，我們正在擴大我們在菲律賓的基礎設施，以支持我們接口業務的增長。截至第二季度末，我們通過建造一座92,000 平方英尺的新工廠，完成了約60% 的工作，該工廠將於2024 年上半年投入運營。我們還繼續努力擴大本地供應鏈，以提高靈活性並快速提高產量支持客戶的需求。第二季度，我們收到了歐洲 IDM 的第一份 DI-Core 軟件訂單，用於監控 Cohu 第三處理程序的性能。

Although in early stages, we estimate the business potential at approximately $1.3 million a year in future software subscription sales at this customer. We had several design wins with our interface products both contactors and probe cards, mostly driven by our products RF performance and final test.

儘管處於早期階段，我們估計該客戶未來軟件訂閱銷售的業務潛力約為每年 130 萬美元。我們的接口產品（包括接觸器和探針卡）獲得了多項設計勝利，這主要是由我們的產品射頻性能和最終測試推動的。

Switching over to Cohu Systems business. It contributed 52% of second quarter revenue at approximately 41% gross margin. As expected, Automotive and industrial continue to be Cohu's main market segments with combined system revenue of 31% of the Q2 total. Other markets remain below historical levels with mobility, particularly weak this year.

切換至 Cohu Systems 業務。它貢獻了第二季度收入的 52%，毛利率約為 41%。正如預期，汽車和工業仍然是 Cohu 的主要細分市場，合計系統收入佔第二季度總收入的 31%。其他市場的流動性仍低於歷史水平，今年尤其疲軟。

When market conditions soften as it is currently the case, we focused on expanding our product portfolio and winning new customer applications, positioning the company to deliver revenue growth in the midterm. Aligned to this approach, there was an important ATE win in the second quarter had a leading OSAT in Korea. This business is for outsourced testing from a European semiconductor manufacturer. This is a high-value target we have been working with to expand use of Cohu's Diamondx platform in analog IC test.

當市場狀況像目前一樣疲軟時，我們專注於擴大產品組合併贏得新的客戶應用，使公司能夠在中期實現收入增長。與這種方法相一致的是，ATE 在第二季度取得了一場重要的勝利，韓國領先的 OSAT。該業務是一家歐洲半導體製造商的外包測試業務。這是我們一直致力於擴大 Cohu Diamondx 平台在模擬 IC 測試中的使用的高價值目標。

Finally, we had a couple of distinct design wins for the handler group during the second quarter. We broke in and a large Taiwanese foundry customer with a thermal handler for hyperscaling device test. And this was the first for Cohu. It creates an opportunity to serve a much broader customer base in high-performance computing, including those developing their own processes. Then there was a handler design win in the high-power semiconductor market adding another customer to a new expansion in this segment.

最後，我們在第二季度為處理程序組贏得了幾項獨特的設計勝利。我們闖入了一家大型台灣代工廠客戶，他們使用了用於超大規模設備測試的熱處理器。這對於 Cohu 來說是第一次。它創造了一個為高性能計算領域更廣泛的客戶群提供服務的機會，包括那些開發自己的流程的客戶群。然後，在高功率半導體市場上贏得了處理器設計，為該領域的新擴展增加了另一個客戶。

All of these are great product validations and give us confidence for 2024 revenue growth. But despite the improving demand for our thermal handlers for high-performance computing, we saw a reduction in customers' utilization this past June, driven by soft conditions affecting all other market segments. Estimated test cell utilization is down 4 points quarter-over-quarter, ending Q2 at approximately 73%. Several customers paused system orders originally planned in the second half of June, delaying capacity extension to the latter part of the year and into 2024.

所有這些都是很好的產品驗證，讓我們對 2024 年收入增長充滿信心。但是，儘管對高性能計算的熱處理器的需求不斷增加，但由於影響所有其他細分市場的疲軟狀況，我們看到今年 6 月客戶的利用率有所下降。預計測試電池利用率環比下降 4 個百分點，第二季度末約為 73%。一些客戶暫停了原計劃於 6 月下半月進行的系統訂單，將產能擴展推遲至今年下半年和 2024 年。

Continued mobility weakness and recent order delays in automotive and industrial segments have extended this downturn in Q3 resulting in a lower revenue guidance. However, current order forecast is projected to grow sequentially again in the third quarter. In the near term, we will continue to tightly control expenses while focusing on winning new customer applications. We will continue executing our strategy to grow recurring business, broaden the use of Diamondx into automotive and industrial customers, add to our inspection and metrology portfolio and increased subscriptions to our emerging software business.

持續的流動性疲軟以及最近汽車和工業領域的訂單延遲延長了第三季度的低迷狀態，導致收入指引下降。然而，目前的訂單預測預計第三季度將再次環比增長。短期內，我們將繼續嚴格控制費用，同時專注於贏得新的客戶應用。我們將繼續執行我們的戰略來發展經常性業務，將 Diamondx 的使用範圍擴大到汽車和工業客戶，增加我們的檢測和計量產品組合，並增加對我們新興軟件業務的訂閱。

I want to stress that we're committed to expanding Cohu's recurring business that is key to profitability through industry cycles. Let me now turn this presentation over to Jeff for further details on second quarter results and third quarter guidance. Jeff?

我想強調的是，我們致力於擴大 Cohu 的經常性業務，這是整個行業周期盈利的關鍵。現在讓我將這份演示文稿轉交給傑夫，了解有關第二季度業績和第三季度指導的更多詳細信息。傑夫？

Thanks, Luis. Before I walk through the Q2 results and Q3 guidance, please note that my comments that follow, I'll refer to non-GAAP figures. Information about the non-GAAP financial measures, including the GAAP to non-GAAP reconciliations and other disclosures are included in the accompanying earnings release and investor presentation, which are located on the Investor page of our website.

謝謝，路易斯。在我詳細介紹第二季度的業績和第三季度的指導之前，請注意我接下來的評論，我將參考非公認會計原則數據。有關非 GAAP 財務指標的信息，包括 GAAP 與非 GAAP 調節表以及其他披露信息，均包含在隨附的收益發布和投資者介紹中，這些信息位於我們網站的投資者頁面上。

Now turning to the Q2 financial results. Cohu delivered strong profitability on revenue of $168.9 million, which is slightly higher than the midpoint of our guidance range. During the second quarter, 2 customers in the automotive market each accounted for more than 10% of sales. Q2 gross margin was strong at 47.8%, about 80 basis points higher than guidance driven by Cohu's resilient recurring business and differentiated products.

現在轉向第二季度的財務業績。 Cohu 實現了強勁的盈利能力，收入為 1.689 億美元，略高於我們指導範圍的中值。第二季度，汽車市場的2家客戶各自佔銷售額的10%以上。第二季度毛利率強勁，達到 47.8%，比 Cohu 彈性經常性業務和差異化產品推動的指導值高出約 80 個基點。

Operating expenses for Q2 were approximately $1 million lower than guidance at $50.8 million. Second quarter non-GAAP operating income was 17.7% of revenue and adjusted EBITDA was 19.7%. The non-GAAP effective tax rate for Q2 was approximately 27% higher than guidance due to the projected concentration of annual pretax income in higher tax rate jurisdictions. Non-GAAP EPS for the second quarter was $0.48.

第二季度運營費用為 5,080 萬美元，比指導值低約 100 萬美元。第二季度非 GAAP 營業收入佔收入的 17.7%，調整後 EBITDA 為 19.7%。由於預計年度稅前收入集中在稅率較高的司法管轄區，第二季度的非公認會計準則有效稅率比指導值高出約 27%。第二季度非 GAAP 每股收益為 0.48 美元。

In summary, Q2 gross margin and adjusted EBITDA were strong, exceeding the midterm financial targets at this level of revenue. Moving to the balance sheet. Cash flow from operations in Q2 was strong at $53 million and cash and investments grew to $372 million at the end of the quarter.

總而言之，第二季度毛利率和調整後 EBITDA 表現強勁，超過了該收入水平的中期財務目標。轉向資產負債表。第二季度運營現金流強勁，達到 5300 萬美元，季度末現金和投資增長至 3.72 億美元。

Debt repayment in the second quarter totaled $1.5 million and we ended Q2 with net cash per share of approximately $7. Cohu's shares repurchased in Q2 totaled $2.7 million and CapEx in the quarter was $3.1 million with approximately $2 million related to construction of the new Philippines facility to support long-term growth prospects in our interface business. Total CapEx for 2023, including the new building is expected to remain at approximately $20 million. And overall, Cohu's balance sheet maintains a strong position to support debt reduction, the share repurchase program and investment opportunities to expand our served markets and technology portfolio in line with our growth strategy.

第二季度的債務償還總額為 150 萬美元，第二季度末每股淨現金約為 7 美元。 Cohu 在第二季度回購的股票總額為 270 萬美元，本季度資本支出為 310 萬美元，其中約 200 萬美元用於建設新的菲律賓工廠，以支持我們接口業務的長期增長前景。 2023 年的總資本支出（包括新建築）預計將保持在約 2000 萬美元。總體而言，Cohu 的資產負債表保持著強勁的地位，可以支持債務削減、股票回購計劃和投資機會，以根據我們的增長戰略擴大我們所服務的市場和技術組合。

Now moving to our Q3 outlook. We're guiding Q3 revenue to be approximately $150 million, reflecting the recent weakness across our end markets and lower test cell utilization at customers' production facilities. Q3 gross margin is forecasted to be approximately 46% better than the financial target model at this level of revenue, due in part to Cohu's differentiated products and our stable high-margin recurring business, which adds resilience to profitability and provides consistent cash flow through industry cycles.

現在轉向我們對第三季度的展望。我們預計第三季度收入約為 1.5 億美元，反映了我們終端市場近期的疲軟以及客戶生產設施測試單元利用率的降低。在此收入水平下，第三季度毛利率預計將比財​​務目標模型高出約46%，部分原因是Cohu 的差異化產品和我們穩定的高利潤經常性業務，這增加了盈利能力的彈性，並為整個行業提供了一致的現金流循環。

Operating expenses for Q3 are projected to decrease quarter-over-quarter to approximately $50 million as we continue to exercise tight control over OpEx while navigating through the trough of this cycle.

隨著我們在度過本週期低谷的同時繼續嚴格控制運營支出，第三季度的運營支出預計將環比下降至約 5000 萬美元。

We're projecting Q3 interest expense to be approximately $1 million and offset by interest income of approximately $2 million. We expect Q3 adjusted EBITDA to be approximately 15% and the Q3 forecasted non-GAAP tax rate is approximately 26%. The diluted share count for Q3 is expected to be approximately 48.4 million shares while we're not guiding full year, the expectation is that we're passing the trough of this industry cycle, and this is supported by the current order forecast that is projected to grow sequentially in the third quarter. That concludes our prepared remarks and now we'll open the call to questions.

我們預計第三季度的利息支出約為 100 萬美元，並被約 200 萬美元的利息收入所抵消。我們預計第三季度調整後 EBITDA 約為 15%，第三季度預測的非 GAAP 稅率約為 26%。第三季度的稀釋股數預計約為 4840 萬股，而我們沒有對全年進行指導，預計我們正在度過這個行業周期的低谷，而當前預計的訂單預測支持了這一點第三季度將實現環比增長。我們準備好的發言到此結束，現在我們將開始提問。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from the line of Brian Chin with Stifel.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自 Brian Chin 和 Stifel 的線路。

Can you hear me?

你能聽到我嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Okay. Great. Sorry, I got cut off there. Ask a few questions. Maybe to start off with, Luis, what -- I guess, in the past 60 days or 45 days, can you be more to script is on sort of what changed in terms of deliveries? It sounds like it's mainly towards sort of auto industrial inside and maybe with the utilization change, which seems to be, I guess, mainly driven by IDM, given the OSATs already we're kind of operating at lower levels.

好的。偉大的。抱歉，我在那裡被打斷了。問幾個問題。也許首先，路易斯，我想，在過去 60 天或 45 天裡，你能更多地編寫腳本來了解交付方面發生的變化嗎？聽起來這主要是針對汽車工業內部的，也許是隨著利用率的變化，我猜這似乎主要是由 IDM 驅動的，因為 OSAT 已經在較低水平上運營。

So can you maybe be descriptive about kind of what you've seen there and then reconcile that with sort of the -- I guess, the positive sequential order trend that you're seeing because that seems to be kind of counterintuitive relative to the sequential revenue guide down and also what that means in terms of sort of duration that you expect this sort of pause in business to occur?

那麼，您能否描述一下您在那裡看到的情況，然後將其與您所看到的正順序趨勢相協調，因為相對於順序，這似乎有點違反直覺。收入指南下降以及您預計這種業務暫停發生的持續時間意味著什麼？

There are several questions there, Brian. But what we did see was actually predominantly in the auto and industrial space. And as you know, those tend to be generally the same customers for us. They basically hit the pause button on orders in June and started pushing some things out to later in the year, talking about restarting the ramp, again, latter part of this year, beginning of next year, and this is to the tune of about $30 million that they got pushed down the line here by about 6 months.

布萊恩，有幾個問題。但我們所看到的實際上主要是在汽車和工業領域。如您所知，對我們來說，這些客戶通常都是相同的客戶。他們基本上在 6 月份按下了訂單暫停按鈕，並開始將一些事情推遲到今年晚些時候，再次討論在今年下半年、明年初重新啟動坡道，這大約是 30 美元百萬美元，他們在這裡被推遲了大約六個月。

Concurrently with that and as I commented in the prepared remarks here, we notice that we end up with a lot of handlers. I mean we've got about 100 handlers right now that are awaiting testers to be installed, probably most of it through the third quarter. And with that, utilization came down about 4 points at the end of June to 73%. That's just sort of the level we saw at the end of June. I think as these handlers start receiving testers getting installed in the third quarter, the utilization is likely to start climbing again. So concurrent with that, we're seeing also an order forecast that starts picking up in the third quarter, which leads us to believe basically that we're passing the trough of the cycle.

與此同時，正如我在準備好的評論中評論的那樣，我們注意到我們最終得到了很多處理程序。我的意思是，我們現在有大約 100 個處理程序正在等待安裝測試儀，其中大部分可能會在第三季度完成。因此，6 月底的利用率下降了約 4 個百分點，降至 73%。這正是我們在六月底看到的水平。我認為，隨著這些處理程序在第三季度開始接收安裝的測試儀，利用率可能會再次開始攀升。與此同時，我們還看到訂單預測在第三季度開始回升，這使我們基本上相信我們正在度過週期的低谷。

Maybe on that, again, the order increase you're seeing and I don't have a book-to-bill above 1 for the entire business or maybe it's a specific segment. So maybe on a segment basis, are you seeing this trend in auto, industrial, but how about also wireless in some of these markets that have been soft.

也許在這一點上，您所看到的訂單增加了，但整個業務的訂單出貨比沒有超過 1，或者可能是某個特定的細分市場。因此，也許在細分市場的基礎上，您是否看到了汽車、工業領域的這種趨勢，但在一些一直疲軟的市場中，無線市場又如何呢？

It's predominantly auto, industrial, Brian. We continue to see the same softness in the mobility space that we have been talking about. I don't necessarily see that changing for us here in the third quarter. So it's more of the auto, in industrial, and that's the segment that had orders pushed out in a softness at the end of the second quarter. And that's the thing segment that seems to be turning around the corner during the third quarter from an order perspective.

主要是汽車、工業，布萊恩。我們繼續在移動領域看到我們一直在談論的同樣的疲軟。我認為第三季度我們的情況不一定會發生變化。因此，更多的是汽車和工業領域，這是第二季度末訂單疲軟的領域。從訂單角度來看，這就是第三季度似乎正在扭轉局面的細分市場。

Okay. Got it. Got it. And maybe lastly, I think I heard in the prepared remarks, maybe a comment about confidence on calendar '24 growth. I guess, what are some of the components of that in terms of market and recovery as well as maybe any initiatives you have line of sight to in terms of SAM expansion, market share gain, et cetera, in any of the product areas?

好的。知道了。知道了。也許最後，我想我在準備好的發言中聽到了關於對“24 日曆”增長的信心的評論。我想，在市場和復蘇方面有哪些組成部分，以及您在任何產品領域的 SAM 擴展、市場份額增益等方面可能採取的任何舉措？

Yes. So from a -- starting from a market standpoint, some of the orders that we're talking about in the third quarter are actually for deliveries already planned in Q1 of next year. And at least a couple of these are fairly sizable actually in and given an indication that there is a turn of the tides coming about. One of them in particular is in the industrial space, more specific and the other one is in the automotive.

是的。因此，從市場的角度來看，我們在第三季度討論的一些訂單實際上是已經計劃在明年第一季度交付的。至少其中有幾個實際上相當大，並表明潮流即將發生轉變。其中一個特別是在工業領域，更具體地說，另一個是在汽車領域。

From an internal, what we can control standpoint, we have 3 main activities on tester design wins that we are in the final innings up again here in the second half of this year. We expect to convert those customers to our Diamondx tester platform and start getting orders probably late this year, early next year. I mean, it's really going to depend on the timing of the ramp of their particular devices that we're getting the system qualified for. But that's where we have more of a line of sight from an equipment standpoint.

從內部、我們可以控制的角度來看，我們在測試儀設計方面有 3 項主要活動，今年下半年我們再次進入最後一局。我們預計將這些客戶轉變為我們的 Diamondx 測試平台，並可能在今年年底、明年初開始接受訂單。我的意思是，這實際上取決於我們使系統合格的特定設備的斜坡時間。但從設備的角度來看，這就是我們擁有更多視線的地方。

Our next question comes from the line of Craig Ellis with B. Riley.

我們的下一個問題來自 Craig Ellis 和 B. Riley 的對話。

Yes. Luis, I'll start maybe picking up on some of Brian's questions, but ask a little bit differently. So as we look at the mix of order activity and this is no surprise has been playing out. I think year-to-date, mobility has been very weak given all the pressure on smartphone sales. Consumers pretty low compute slow, but they're with some very positive commentary on hyperscale activity.

是的。路易斯，我可能會開始回答布萊恩的一些問題，但問得有點不同。因此，當我們觀察訂單活動的組合時，出現這種情況並不奇怪。我認為，今年迄今為止，鑑於智能手機銷售面臨的所有壓力，移動性一直非常疲弱。消費者的計算速度相當慢，但他們對超大規模活動有一些非常積極的評論。

How would those dynamics expect to normalize if we had a more normal demand environment next year, when would the business start to see order improvement and what would be some of the early indicators that customers are moving back to more normal utilization levels and equipment order rates for Cohu.

如果明年我們的需求環境更加正常，那麼這些動態將如何正常化？業務何時開始看到訂單改善？以及客戶正在恢復到更正常的利用率水平和設備訂單率的一些早期指標是什麼？對於科胡。

Well, Craig, as I said, we do expect third quarter orders to improve relative to Q2, right? So I mean, I'm not going to say that necessarily at normal levels. But we do expect a turning of the quarter on bookings already at this quarter. From a normalization level, I think automotive is going to start picking up -- automotive and industrial are going to start picking up to normal levels in Q1 of next year.

好吧，克雷格，正如我所說，我們確實預計第三季度的訂單相對於第二季度有所改善，對嗎？所以我的意思是，我不一定會在正常水平上這麼說。但我們確實預計本季度的預訂量將出現季度轉變。從正常化水平來看，我認為汽車業將開始回升——汽車和工業將在明年第一季度開始回升到正常水平。

Mobility, quite frankly, I don't know. We keep waiting for the signs of improvement. I think have seen a couple of our customers put out earnings release here in the last 24, 48 hours that are a little bit more encouraging. We haven't really seen ourselves yet that forecast, that demand forecast.

坦白說，流動性我不知道。我們一直在等待改善的跡象。我認為我們的一些客戶在過去 24、48 小時內發布了財報，這有點令人鼓舞。我們還沒有真正看到自己的預測、需求預測。

So I'm going to hold my graph to that. Computing, as you said, I mean, computing on a sequential basis, Q2 orders were already about 30% higher than first quarter. So it is low small numbers and computing is a smaller segment for us. But nevertheless, the data center hyperscaling business is starting to get some momentum. But honestly, I think a return to normality requires both automotive and industrial. First and foremost, and not just orders but shipments, which I think recovers in the first half -- sorry, in the first quarter of next year.

所以我將保留我的圖表。正如你所說，我的意思是，按順序計算，第二季度的訂單已經比第一季度高出約 30%。所以它的數量很少，計算對我們來說是一個較小的部分。但儘管如此，數據中心超大規模業務正開始獲得一些動力。但老實說，我認為恢復正常需要汽車和工業。首先也是最重要的，不僅僅是訂單，還有發貨量，我認為發貨量會在上半年恢復——抱歉，是在明年第一季度。

And then a return of mobility, which is yet at this point, something that is a little hard to pin down. We expect late this year, early next year, but at what magnitude question mark, I don't know the answer to that question on the mobility side.

然後是流動性的恢復，目前還很難確定這一點。我們預計今年年底、明年初，但問號的大小是多少，我不知道移動性方面這個問題的答案。

Yes. That's helpful. And then turning to comments that you made on the Philippines manufacturing expansion and that facility's ability to go live next year. Can you just provide some more color on what that means for the company's ability to meet upside demand and what that expansion will mean from a cost standpoint and therefore, a gross margin standpoint from levels that are already quite strong in the business.

是的。這很有幫助。然後轉向您對菲律賓製造業擴張以及該工廠明年投入使用的能力的評論。您能否提供更多信息，說明這對公司滿足上行需求的能力意味著什麼，以及從成本角度以及從業務已經相當強勁的毛利率角度來看，擴張意味著什麼。

Yes. I'll start on the -- in the first half of your question, I'll let Jeff step in to talk about the gross margin impact. That new facility is going to give us an opportunity to increase output on the interface business by about 50%. So it adds about $65 million of incremental revenue opportunity out of that factory.

是的。我將從 - 在你問題的前半部分開始，我將讓傑夫介入討論毛利率的影響。這個新設施將使我們有機會將接口業務的產出增加約 50%。因此，該工廠增加了約 6500 萬美元的增量收入機會。

And with respect to gross margin, so that increase in volume, help us leverage better some of the manufacturing fixed costs that we have. That business at the moment is running roughly in the 44% to 45% gross margin in the model. We have them closer to 47%, 48%, which is achievable as we continue to put all the pieces together here and add capacity and continue to leverage those costs.

就毛利率而言，銷量的增加有助於我們更好地利用我們擁有的一些製造固定成本。該業務目前的毛利率大致為 44% 至 45%。我們的目標接近 47%、48%，這是可以實現的，因為我們繼續將所有部分整合在一起，增加容量並繼續利用這些成本。

That's helpful. And then if I could just sneak in one more before going back into the queue, guys. Luis, I was hoping you and maybe, Jeff, since this is a longer-term question dealing with just growing the business, but also focusing back on the midterm target.

這很有幫助。然後，如果我能在回到隊列之前再偷偷插一張，伙計們。路易斯，我希望你，也許還有傑夫，因為這是一個長期問題，不僅涉及業務增長，而且還關注中期目標。

Luis, you mentioned that we've got the seeds of growth visible in order activity. We've heard that the gross margin is performing at above target levels for current revenue rate. So can you guys just address your confidence in getting back to the midterm targets, $1 billion in revenues and getting gross margin up to 49% given the dynamics that you see in the business and the order flow that you're starting to see?

路易斯，您提到我們在訂單活動中已經看到了增長的種子。我們聽說毛利率高於當前收入率的目標水平。那麼，考慮到您在業務中看到的動態以及您開始看到的訂單流，你們能否對回到中期目標、10 億美元的收入和將毛利率提高到 49% 充滿信心？

Yes. Honestly, the confidence is pretty good, Craig. I mean this industry goes through its cycle, as you know, been in for long enough to know that we do hit some speed bumps in order and that's where we are now. We're sort of that trough of the cycle. And when business recovers, it's not unheard of it going up 15%, 20% in a subsequent year followed by another year of growth that could be then 10%, 15% following that. So we have a pretty solid position in the automotive and industrial market with our thermal handlers.

是的。老實說，克雷格的信心非常好。我的意思是，正如您所知，這個行業經歷了它的周期，已經存在了足夠長的時間，知道我們確實遇到了一些減速帶，這就是我們現在所處的位置。我們正處於週期的低谷。當業務復甦時，隨後一年增長 15%、20%，接下來的一年可能增長 10%、15%，這種情況並非聞所未聞。因此，我們的熱處理設備在汽車和工業市場上擁有相當穩固的地位。

It's a market that for the first 5 in years is growing at a double-digit rate. The semiconductor industry part of it is growing at a double-digit rate. I happen to be in Asia this week, actually making this call from and had an opportunity to visit 5 of our customers in the space and pretty much all of them are doubling their footprint in test -- assembly and test, and I saw -- got to see actually some of the factors being built that are coming up into production first and second half of next year, depending on the customer, you think pick.

這個市場在前五年裡一直以兩位數的速度增長。其中半導體行業部分正以兩位數的速度增長。我本週碰巧在亞洲，實際上是在亞洲打這個電話，並有機會拜訪了該領域的 5 家客戶，幾乎所有客戶都在測試（組裝和測試）方面將足跡加倍，我看到——實際上，我們必須看到一些正在建造的部件將在明年上半年和下半年投入生產，具體取決於您認為選擇的客戶。

So the opportunity in the automotive industrial markets is just tremendous. And I think that ramp is happening next year and probably for the foreseeable few years as more electric and ADAS capable vehicles come to market.

因此，汽車工業市場的機會是巨大的。我認為，隨著更多電動和 ADAS 功能的車輛進入市場，這種增長將在明年甚至在可預見的幾年內發生。

The computing space, we see the advent of AI and AI driven data center processors. We're seeing a little bit of that ramp that will be -- it's a smaller market for us. And over the long haul, that is going to drive a significant number of edge computing and communication chips that will also benefit the business, but in a different -- sort of in a different dynamic than the automotive and industrial. So if you look at all of that put together, our handler business was pretty solid with solid growth ahead.

在計算領域，我們看到人工智能和人工智能驅動的數據中心處理器的出現。我們看到了一點點的增長——這對我們來說是一個較小的市場。從長遠來看，這將推動大量邊緣計算和通信芯片的發展，這也將使企業受益，但與汽車和工業的動態不同。因此，如果你把所有這些放在一起看，我們的處理程序業務相當穩健，未來將穩步增長。

The interface business, similarly, particularly because of the market, the automotive and industrial market. We're working pretty hard to broaden the penetration of our interface business into high-performance digital tasks, basically more computing. At the same time, we're working really hard to broaden the penetration of our ATE business into analog power semiconductor test. Again, more leverage towards automotive industrial applications. These are sort of the customers that I mentioned earlier -- on an earlier call, we had some line of sight business wins for the second half of the year and then sort of enjoy the whatever that customer's demand is going to be in 2024 and beyond.

接口業務也同樣如此，特別是因為汽車和工業市場。我們正在努力將我們的接口業務滲透到高性能數字任務，基本上是更多的計算。與此同時，我們正在努力將 ATE 業務滲透到模擬功率半導體測試領域。再次，更多地利用汽車工業應用。這些是我之前提到的客戶——在之前的一次電話會議上，我們在下半年贏得了一些視線業務，然後享受 2024 年及以後客戶的需求。 。

So I'm fairly confident on that revenue growth aspect. Obviously, we're really confident on the gross margin aspect because we're basically there or better than model at the moment. So the way I see it is we're passing through that trough of the industry cycle. Delivering $0.48 of EPS in the second quarter and looking ahead for growing with the market and a few design wins on the tester side and the interface side, which is what we've been focusing on.

所以我對收入增長方面相當有信心。顯然，我們對毛利率方面非常有信心，因為我們目前基本上已經達到或比模型更好。所以我認為我們正在經歷行業周期的低谷。第二季度實現 0.48 美元的每股收益，並期待與市場一起增長，並在測試儀方面和接口方面取得一些設計成果，這是我們一直關注的重點。

Our next question comes from the line of Krish Sankar with TD Cowen.

我們的下一個問題來自 Krish Sankar 和 TD Cowen 的對話。

To the first one, Jeff, you mentioned that the September quarter weakness is auto-industrial, but some of your test equipment peers have said auto is still pretty strong. I'm just curious, is this specific to your customer exposure for your auto handlers? Or is there any human update on what's happening on the auto handler market share for you? And then I have a follow-up.

對於第一個問題，傑夫，您提到九月份季度的疲軟是汽車工業，但您的一些測試設備同行表示汽車仍然相當強勁。我只是好奇，這是否特定於您的汽車處理機的客戶曝光度？或者您是否有關於汽車處理機市場份額最新情況的人工更新？然後我有一個後續行動。

So maybe let me step in on that, Krish. It's hard for you to pick an auto customer or industrial customer that we're not selling handlers to. So that's -- that can't be specific to us. But one interesting observation, I don't know if you picked it up on an answer that I gave a minute ago. We have about 100 handlers that are waiting on testing deliveries to get installed. So I think that's one element of the speed bump here.

所以也許讓我介入一下，克里什。您很難選擇我們不向其出售處理程序的汽車客戶或工業客戶。所以這不是我們特有的。但有一個有趣的觀察，我不知道你是否注意到我一分鐘前給出的答案。我們有大約 100 個處理程序正在等待測試交付進行安裝。所以我認為這是這裡減速的一個因素。

We've got to get these testers, which are not from Cohu in this case, actually, it's from some of our tester competitors to hit the production floor so we can put these handlers into production in. Frankly, I think that has been one of the elements that caused the order pause because these customers can't take more handlers until they can get delivery of these investors.

我們必須讓這些測試儀（在本例中不是來自 Cohu）實際上是來自我們的一些測試儀競爭對手進入生產車間，這樣我們就可以將這些處理程序投入生產。坦率地說，我認為這是一個導致訂單暫停的因素，因為這些客戶在收到這些投資者之前無法接受更多處理程序。

Got it. Got it. That's very helpful. So the auto handler market share is still pretty robust, right?

知道了。知道了。這非常有幫助。所以汽車裝卸機的市場份額仍然相當強勁，對嗎？

Yes. It's absolutely robust. It's very solid.

是的。它絕對堅固耐用。它非常堅固。

Got it. And then just another question. As the orders are growing in September, is it fair to assume that December revenue should be sequentially better than September? And along the same path, if you look into next year, are the main puts and takes on gross margins until the fact that if you have more mobility test equipment that's better for gross margins than auto handlers, is it as simple as that or other variants that work here?

知道了。然後還有一個問題。由於 9 月份的訂單不斷增長，假設 12 月份的收入應該比 9 月份更好，是否公平？沿著同樣的路徑，如果你展望明年，毛利率的主要看跌期權和承付金額，直到事實上，如果你有更多的移動測試設備，其毛利率比自動處理機更好，那麼簡單還是其他在這里工作的變體？

That does have an influence, Krish. The more ATE business we have, yes, the mix improves a bit. So definitely, that is a benefit. As we've talked before, our handler business gross margins have expanded quite nicely over the last 4 to 6 quarters. But yes, definitely with the growth in the tester business, yes, the overall mix improves and the margin would expand as well.

這確實有影響，克里什。是的，我們擁有的 ATE 業務越多，混合情況就會有所改善。所以毫無疑問，這是一個好處。正如我們之前所說，我們的處理機業務毛利率在過去 4 到 6 個季度中增長得相當不錯。但是，是的，隨著測試儀業務的增長，整體組合會得到改善，利潤也會擴大。

And then just a clarification on December revenue. Is it too early to say? Or was the order book growing in September gives you comfort under some revenue?

然後是對 12 月份收入的澄清。現在說還為時過早嗎？或者 9 月份訂單量的增長是否讓您對一些收入感到放心？

Well, the way that we see it now, as Luis had said, sequential increase in orders Q3 versus Q2. We think that translates into a sequential increase in revenue, but it is early for us to pin down a number. We think it's an incremental increase, not a substantial increase, but it would be -- at this point, I think it is incremental. But again, difficult to pin down a number.

好吧，正如路易斯所說，我們現在看到的方式是，第三季度的訂單比第二季度連續增加。我們認為這會轉化為收入的連續增長，但現在確定一個數字還為時過早。我們認為這是一個漸進式的增長，而不是實質性的增長，但在這一點上，我認為它是漸進式的。但同樣，很難確定一個數字。

Our next question comes from Charles Shi with Needham & Company.

我們的下一個問題來自 Needham & Company 的 Charles Shi。

Thank you for letting me ask maybe just one question. Test cell utilization, what is the current visibility into the trend, let's say into Q3 and into Q4 given your visibility today?

謝謝你讓我問也許只是一個問題。測試電池利用率，當前趨勢的可見度是多少，考慮到您今天的可見度，我們可以說進入第三季度和第四季度？

Charles, we don't try to forecast the test cell utilization. So it's always a rearview mirror metrics. It's what we measure and it did -- like I said, it did come down in the second quarter, just down to 73%. It did come down both at the IDMs and OSATs but when we dug in a little bit more to understand part of the reasons on that is we recognize we end up having -- it's actually 99 handlers. So close to 100 handlers that were sitting and waiting for test for deliver.

查爾斯，我們不會嘗試預測測試電池的利用率。所以它始終是一個後視鏡指標。這就是我們所衡量的，而且確實如此——就像我說的，它在第二季度確實下降了，僅下降到 73%。它確實在 IDM 和 OSAT 上都出現了下降，但是當我們深入研究以了解部分原因時，我們認識到我們最終擁有的實際上是 99 個處理程序。近 100 名處理人員正坐著等待測試交付。

So here becomes more of a question of if those testers really get delivered and we do count systems that are waiting to be installed, actually, as part of the utilization metric. So if we do get those testers deliver on the third quarter and notwithstanding anything else happening in the market, I would expect test cell utilization to climb again in the third quarter. But like I said, we don't typically try to forecast test cell utilization.

因此，這裡更多的問題是這些測試儀是否真的交付，並且我們實際上將等待安裝的系統計算在內，作為利用率指標的一部分。因此，如果我們確實讓這些測試儀在第三季度交付，並且無論市場上發生什麼其他事情，我預計測試單元利用率將在第三季度再次攀升。但正如我所說，我們通常不會嘗試預測測試單元的利用率。

Luis, can you provide a little bit of color on your design win with hyperscaler to the boundary because I thought your testers are more geared towards analog-intensive applications but the hyperscaler, my assumptions, is probably a digital intensive application. So almost still like this would have been an advantage kind of market, but you did have this design win.

路易斯，您能否為您的設計贏得超大規模的邊界提供一些色彩，因為我認為您的測試人員更適合模擬密集型應用程序，但我的假設是，超大規模器可能是數字密集型應用程序。因此，幾乎仍然像這樣，這將是一個優勢市場，但你確實贏得了這種設計。

Can you correct any of the thoughts -- any of the things I said the wrong and provide a little more color on this point?

你能糾正我的任何想法——任何我說錯的話，並在這一點上提供更多的色彩嗎？

Yes. Charles, everything you said is correct, except the very beginning. This was a handler design, we had not a tester. But everything else you said is actually correct, including tester that goes with our handler but it's really a thermal handler design, not a tester from us.

是的。查爾斯，你說的一切都是正確的，除了一開始。這是一個處理程序設計，我們沒有測試儀。但您所說的其他所有內容實際上都是正確的，包括與我們的處理程序配套的測試儀，但它實際上是熱處理程序設計，而不是我們的測試儀。

That concludes today's question-and-answer session. I'd like to turn the call back to Jeff Jones for closing remarks.

今天的問答環節到此結束。我想將電話轉回給傑夫·瓊斯，讓他作結束語。

And before we sign off, I'd just like to mention that we'll be attending 3 investor conferences during the third quarter and they are the Needham Virtual Conference on Tuesday, August 22. The Jefferies Conference in Chicago on Tuesday, August 29 and Citi's Global Tech Conference in New York on Friday, September 8.

在我們結束之前，我想提一下，我們將在第三季度參加3 場投資者會議，它們是8 月22 日星期二舉行的尼德姆虛擬會議。 8 月29 日星期二和8 月29 日星期二在芝加哥舉行的傑富瑞會議9 月 8 日星期五，花旗全球科技會議在紐約舉行。

So if you plan to attend one or more of these conferences, would like to meet with us. Please reach out to your respective analyst or conference contact to schedule a meeting. Thank you for joining today's call and we look forward to speaking with you soon. Have a nice day.

因此，如果您計劃參加其中一個或多個會議，請與我們會面。請聯繫您各自的分析師或會議聯繫人安排會議。感謝您參加今天的電話會議，我們期待很快與您交談。祝你今天過得愉快。

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連接。