Cannae Holdings Inc (CNNE) 2023 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Cannae Holdings, Inc., First Quarter 2023 Financial Results Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded, and a replay is available through 11:59 p.m. Eastern Time on May 16, 2023.

女士們、先生們，下午好，歡迎參加 Cannae Holdings, Inc. 2023 年第一季度財務業績電話會議。 （操作員說明）謹此提醒，本次電話會議正在錄音，並且可在晚上 11:59 之前重播。東部時間 2023 年 5 月 16 日。

With that, I would like to turn the call over to Rory Rumore of Solebury Strategic Communications. Please go ahead.

說到這裡，我想把電話轉給索爾伯里戰略傳播公司的羅里·魯莫爾。請繼續。

Thank you, operator, and all of you for joining us this afternoon. On the call today, we have our Chief Executive Officer, Rick Massey; Cannae's President, Ryan Caswell; and Bryan Coy, our Chief Financial Officer.

感謝接線員以及大家今天下午加入我們。今天的電話會議由我們的首席執行官 Rick Massey 主持。坎尼主席 Ryan Caswell；和我們的首席財務官 Bryan Coy。

Before we begin, I would like to remind listeners that this conference call and the Q&A following our remarks may contain forward-looking statements that involve a number of risks and uncertainties. Statements that are not historical facts, including statements about Cannae's expectations, hopes, intentions or strategies regarding the future are forward-looking statements.

在我們開始之前，我想提醒聽眾，本次電話會議和我們發言後的問答可能包含涉及許多風險和不確定性的前瞻性陳述。非歷史事實的陳述，包括有關 Cannae 對未來的期望、希望、意圖或戰略的陳述，均為前瞻性陳述。

Forward-looking statements are based on management's beliefs as well as assumptions made by and information currently available to management. Because such statements are based on conditions as to future financial and operating results and are not statements of fact, actual results may differ materially from those projected.

前瞻性陳述基於管理層的信念以及管理層做出的假設和當前可獲得的信息。由於此類陳述基於未來財務和經營業績的條件，而不是事實陳述，因此實際結果可能與預測存在重大差異。

The company undertakes no obligation to update any forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise. The risks and uncertainties, which forward-looking statements are subject to include, but are not limited to, the risks and other factors detailed in our quarterly shareholder letter, which was released this afternoon and in our other filings with the SEC.

公司不承擔更新任何前瞻性陳述的義務，無論是由於新信息、未來事件還是其他原因。前瞻性陳述所涉及的風險和不確定性包括但不限於我們今天下午發布的季度股東信以及我們向 SEC 提交的其他文件中詳細說明的風險和其他因素。

Today's remarks will also include references to non-GAAP financial measures. Additional information, including reconciliation between non-GAAP financial information to the GAAP financial information is provided in our shareholder letter.

今天的講話還將提及非公認會計準則財務指標。我們的股東信中提供了其他信息，包括非 GAAP 財務信息與 GAAP 財務信息之間的調節。

I would now like to turn the call over to Cannae's Chief Executive Officer, Rick Massey, who will open with a few brief remarks, and then, open the line for your questions.

我現在想將電話轉給坎尼首席執行官里克·馬西 (Rick Massey)，他將首先做一些簡短的評論，然後開始回答大家的問題。

Thanks, Rory. It's Rick Massey. Thank you all for joining the call. We'll -- I'll try to be brief, but I'm going to stand on a soapbox here for a second. We are not in the -- everybody on these calls, including us, listen to a lot of earnings calls, and we've heard a lot of management prognostications on the market and the economy and all that. And we're not dumb enough to get out and start making guesses about where the economy is headed.

謝謝，羅里。我是里克·梅西。感謝大家加入通話。我們會——我會盡量簡短，但我要在演講台上站一會兒。我們不是——參加這些電話會議的每個人，包括我們在內，都聽了很多財報電話會議，我們也聽到了很多管理層對市場和經濟的預測等等。我們還沒有愚蠢到走出去開始猜測經濟的走向。

I'll say, talking to the CEOs of the companies that we deal with, there's a lot of uncertainty out there. What we are convinced of is that our portfolio almost to a company is grossly undervalued. And I'm going to go through just a few examples.

我想說，在與我們合作的公司的首席執行官交談時，存在很多不確定性。我們確信的是，我們的投資組合幾乎對一家公司來說被嚴重低估。我將僅舉幾個例子。

And of companies that have recently reported, our largest holding, for an example, is Dun & Bradstreet. We've got 79-and-change million shares. It's trading at a very low multiple of EBITDA -- enterprise value to EBITDA. They reported an overall organic growth of 3%.

例如，在最近發布報告的公司中，我們最大的持股是鄧白氏公司(Dun & Bradstreet)。我們有 79 萬股。它的交易價格是 EBITDA（企業價值與 EBITDA）的非常低的倍數。他們報告稱整體有機增長為 3%。

That may or may not disappoint you, but if you look at their peers, you'll see that there are 2 peer -- there are 2 U.S. peers in the consumer credit business, the closest peers to Dun & Bradstreet, one of them had revenues -- revenue growth of 2% and one had revenue shrinkage of 4.5%. Yet those 2 companies trade at almost twice the EBITDA multiple of Don & Bradstreet. We're a little clueless about that.

這可能會讓你失望，也可能不會讓你失望，但如果你看看他們的同行，你會發現有 2 個同行——消費信貸業務有 2 個美國同行，最接近 Dun & Bradstreet 的同行，其中一個有收入——收入增長 2%，但收入下降 4.5%。然而，這兩家公司的交易價格幾乎是 Don & Bradstreet 的 EBITDA 倍數的兩倍。我們對此有點一無所知。

Dun & Bradstreet does not have that much more debt than some of its peers. It has a better margin. And like I said, it has better growth than its peers have shown. And what you'll see if you look under the cover on Dun & Bradstreet is they -- Anthony and the team there have done an incredible job of turning around their marketing services division by using essentially a data management platform where customers can use their own data, third-party data, and Dun & Bradstreet data to perfect their account-based marketing. It's going like gangbusters.

鄧白氏的債務並不比一些同行多多少。它有更好的利潤。正如我所說，它的增長速度比同行更好。如果您深入了解鄧白氏 (Dun & Bradstreet) 的幕後，您會發現，安東尼和那裡的團隊通過使用本質上是一個數據管理平台（客戶可以使用自己的數據管理平台），完成了一項令人難以置信的工作，扭轉了他們的營銷服務部門的局面。數據、第三方數據和 Dun & Bradstreet 數據來完善基於帳戶的營銷。事情進展得如火如荼。

Hoovers had a 60% churn rate. That is a 40% customer retention rate just a few years ago when they set about to fix Hoovers. And it has a retention rate now in the 80s. So stunning turnaround for Dun & Bradstreet and yet the market is -- it's -- they're selling it off. And we're -- it's really disappointing to us.

Hoovers 的流失率為 60%。就在幾年前，當他們著手修復 Hoovers 時，客戶保留率為 40%。現在它的保留率在 80 年代。鄧白氏 (Dun & Bradstreet) 實現瞭如此驚人的轉變，但市場卻——確實——他們正在拋售它。我們真的很失望。

We wish that there's more attention to be paid to Dun & Bradstreet because they've done a really nice job under the covers fixing a very broken company. They've got it back to growth, and growth faster than peers, and yet they've not been rewarded for that. Peers traded, like I said, twice the multiple.

我們希望人們更多地關注鄧白氏公司，因為他們在修復一家非常破產的公司的幕後做了非常出色的工作。他們已經恢復增長，而且增長速度比同齡人更快，但他們卻沒有因此而得到回報。正如我所說，同行的交易量是其兩倍。

I said I'd be brief. I'll try to be a little quicker. Alight reported today 15% revenue growth in the first quarter, 15%. Their BPaaS, which is sort of their enterprise offering, multi-application offering. Their sales were up -- BPaaS sales were up 50%. Their bookings were a little soft, but that's because they have had all these giant jumbo contracts that they've signed and are now in execution mode like Exxon and GE and others.

我說我會簡短地說。我會盡量快一點。 Alight 今天公佈第一季度收入增長 15%，增長 15%。他們的 BPaaS，這是他們的企業產品、多應用程序產品。他們的銷售額增長了——BPaaS 銷售額增長了 50%。他們的預訂有點軟，但那是因為他們已經簽署了所有這些巨型合同，並且現在正像埃克森美孚和通用電氣等公司一樣處於執行模式。

So ADP, the closest comp to Alight grew at 9%. They've -- this company Alight, one of my favorites in the whole universe of stocks, grew at 15% and yet Alight is trading at about half the multiple of ADP, go figure. It's a little depressing. We know that the market was disappointed that Stephan and the team at Alight didn't forecast or upgrade their forecast for '23.

因此，最接近 Alight 的 ADP 增長了 9%。他們——這家公司 Alight 是我在整個股票領域中最喜歡的公司之一，它的增長率為 15%，但 Alight 的交易價格約為 ADP 倍數，算一下。有點鬱悶。我們知道，市場對 Stephan 和 Alight 團隊沒有預測或升級他們對 23 年的預測感到失望。

And I would just ask all of you and those investors to listen to a number of calls that have been made in the first quarter and see how many companies who beat their guidance actually -- for the first quarter actually came out and raised for '23.

我只想請你們所有人和那些投資者聽取第一季度的一些電話，看看有多少公司實際上超出了他們的指導——第一季度實際上已經出來並籌集了 23 年的資金。 。

In my own anecdotal experience, it's a very low percentage because of the uncertainty in the markets out there and who can blame Stephan and Katie for not sticking their necks out and forecasting of increasing growth in a choppy sort of economy.

根據我自己的軼事經驗，這個比例非常低，因為市場存在不確定性，誰都可以責怪斯蒂芬和凱蒂沒有勇敢地預測在動蕩的經濟中會出現增長。

Look at CDAY. CDAY beat the market substantially in terms of its guidance. And the stock is down 15% since their earnings call. You go figure. It doesn't make -- it makes no sense. It's trading in the -- like the mid-50s now. And it's -- our last sale, we sold 1 million shares at $78, and that was a good trade, and we probably would sell another 1 million at $78 if it ever gets back there. But at $55, it's dumb. It's just a really dumb price.

看看CDAY。 CDAY 的指引大幅優於市場。自財報電話會議以來，該股已下跌 15%。你去算算。這沒有任何意義。現在的交易時間是 50 年代中期。我們最後一次銷售，我們以 78 美元的價格出售了 100 萬股，這是一筆不錯的交易，如果價格回到那個水平，我們可能會以 78 美元的價格再出售 100 萬股。但 55 美元，這太愚蠢了。這真是一個愚蠢的價格。

Paysafe, everybody's whipping child. Paysafe actually turned in high single digits revenue growth, flat EBITDA growth, which is pretty amazing given the mess that Bruce and the team inherited. The stock is up a little bit, but they did -- this is a business that did $420 million of EBITDA in '22 and on track to do even better than that in '23. So it's kind of been thrown out with the bathwater, too.

Paysafe，每個人都在鞭打孩子。 Paysafe 實際上實現了高個位數的收入增長，但 EBITDA 增長持平，考慮到 Bruce 和團隊接手的混亂局面，這真是令人驚訝。股價上漲了一點，但他們做到了——這家公司在 22 年的 EBITDA 為 4.2 億美元，而且有望比 23 年做得更好。所以它也被和洗澡水一起倒掉了。

So this quarter, we are -- we're looking at a lot of things, but we are not sure it's timely given the -- all the noise in the capital markets, especially the debt capital markets and all the uncertainty and the economy on the back half of the year. So don't be surprised if we don't strike at something in the second quarter and don't be surprised if we do.

因此，本季度，我們正在考慮很多事情，但考慮到資本市場的所有噪音，特別是債務資本市場以及所有不確定性和經濟，我們不確定這是否及時。下半年。因此，如果我們在第二季度沒有取得什麼成果，也不要感到驚訝，如果我們做到了，也不要感到驚訝。

The -- we are not -- we did not buy back any shares in the first quarter, and it's principally because we don't have a lot of extra capital to do so. And in order to raise that capital, we're going to have to sell one of those aforementioned holdings at a very disappointing price, and we're just not that dumb.

我們沒有在第一季度回購任何股票，這主要是因為我們沒有大量額外資本來這樣做。為了籌集資金，我們將不得不以非常令人失望的價格出售上述持股之一，而我們並不那麼愚蠢。

It doesn't make sense to sell Dun & Bradstreet at $10 when it's worth $15 and so that you can go buy your shares back at a deep discount, too. It just doesn't make sense to me. The math doesn't work. So you may be -- some of our investors may be disappointed we didn't buy back any shares, but we think it's prudent -- just prudent portfolio management.

當 Dun & Bradstreet 的價值為 15 美元時，以 10 美元的價格出售它是沒有意義的，這樣你也可以以大幅折扣買回你的股票。這對我來說沒有意義。數學不行。所以你可能會——我們的一些投資者可能會對我們沒有回購任何股票感到失望，但我們認為這是謹慎的——只是謹慎的投資組合管理。

Ryan Caswell is our President. He's been busy with our Black Knight Financial. I know there will -- there may be some questions about that, where we sit and how is Bournemouth doing, and what did they -- are they out of the death zone, and what's your view.

瑞安卡斯韋爾是我們的總裁。他一直忙於我們的黑騎士金融。我知道可能會有一些問題，我們坐在哪裡，伯恩茅斯做得怎麼樣，他們做了什麼，他們是否走出了死亡區，以及你的看法是什麼。

No, we -- I think we talked about it last time, we spent some money in the transfer window, and the team has performed much better. So it looks like we are very close, if not out of the relegation zone, which is a great outcome. And we're doing a lot on the business side.

不，我們——我想我們上次談到過，我們在轉會窗口花了一些錢，球隊的表現好多了。所以看起來我們已經非常接近了，即使沒有脫離降級區，這也是一個很好的結果。我們在業務方面做了很多工作。

From a commercial perspective, in terms of increasing sponsorships, thinking about optimizing ticketing revenue. And so we're very pleased with the football performance to hopefully stay up in the Premier League, which will allow all of the other stuff in the multi-club strategy to perform much better.

從商業角度來說，在增加贊助方面，考慮優化門票收入。因此，我們對足球表現感到非常滿意，希望能夠留在英超聯賽中，這將使多俱樂部戰略中的所有其他內容表現得更好。

We think we got a steel on Bournemouth or Bill got a steel. He's the one -- he and Ryan were ones that warmed their way into the process and got a deal. We paid 0.8x revenues. The comps are now probably double what they were at the time, maybe 5x. You're seeing people pay 5x for small EPL teams. So that's going to turn out to be a really good one for us, and we're excited about it.

我們認為我們在伯恩茅斯得到了鋼，或者比爾得到了鋼。他是那個人——他和瑞安是那些熱衷於進入這個過程並達成協議的人。我們支付了 0.8 倍的收入。現在的比較可能是當時的兩倍，也許是 5 倍。你會看到人們為小型英超球隊支付五倍的費用。所以這對我們來說真的是一件好事，我們對此感到興奮。

I don't have anything else. Did I miss anything, Bryan?

我沒有別的東西了。我錯過了什麼嗎，布萊恩？

No.

不。

No. Okay. Bryan Coy, our CFO, is here with us. Unless you have anything to report, we'll just go to questions.

不，好吧。我們的首席財務官 Bryan Coy 也和我們在一起。除非你有什麼要報告的，否則我們只會提出問題。

No. Let's go to questions. Operator?

不，我們來提問吧。操作員？

Thank you. We will now begin our question-and-answer session. (Operator Instructions). The first question comes with Ian Zaffino with Oppenheimer.

謝謝。我們現在將開始問答環節。 （操作員說明）。第一個問題來自伊恩·扎菲諾和奧本海默。

Thanks for all the commentary. This is helpful. And since you 3 are out there, I'm going to press you a little bit on this. You basically almost have 100% upside if you buy back your stock, right?

感謝所有的評論。這很有幫助。既然你們三個都在場，我就在這件事上向你們施加一點壓力。如果你回購你的股票，你基本上幾乎有 100% 的上漲空間，對嗎？

And so -- I mean, my argument is bird in the hand if you buy back your stock versus one that's in the bush. So help us understand this, right? Because when I'm sitting here, I would rather buy back something that's worth half the price right now as opposed to sitting and waiting, kind of like what your prepared remarks indicate. So try and square that and push you a little bit on your thinking there.

所以——我的意思是，我的論點是，如果你回購你的股票，而不是買回叢林中的股票，那就是手中的鳥。那麼請幫助我們理解這一點，對嗎？因為當我坐在這裡時，我寧願立即買回價值一半的東西，而不是坐著等待，有點像你準備好的言論所表明的那樣。因此，嘗試將其平方，並推動你的思考。

I think the underlying assumption is that we are buying back at a 50% discount to book value. It's not clear that the -- that buybacks have a -- have any effect on market value. And I'll say we ran a grand experiment in '22. And we bought back, I don't know, 12% or 15% of our company, and the stock actually declined.

我認為基本假設是我們以賬面價值 50% 的折扣回購。目前尚不清楚回購是否會對市場價值產生任何影響。我想說我們在 22 年進行了一項大型實驗。我不知道，我們回購了我們公司 12% 或 15% 的股份，而股價實際上下跌了。

So it doesn't seem -- yes, if you buy our stock at $20 and then tangible book -- or what the net book value per share is $40, it's a theoretical double, but it's a theoretical double to book value per share. And clearly, we don't trade on book value per share.

所以，是的，如果你以 20 美元購買我們的股票，然後購買有形賬面，或者每股賬面淨值是 40 美元，這似乎不是理論上的兩倍，但它是每股賬面價值的理論上的兩倍。顯然，我們不按每股賬面價值進行交易。

And I would rather -- we think that the market for our stock is depressed, not because we don't buy back enough shares but because the -- our portfolio companies are poorly valued. And we're -- that's why our strategy is let's just -- before we go sell something, let's wait for it to hit the target price, the price that we sort of thought about when we went into the deals in the first place.

我寧願——我們認為我們的股票市場低迷，不是因為我們沒有回購足夠的股票，而是因為——我們的投資組合公司的估值很低。這就是為什麼我們的策略是——在我們出售某些東西之前，讓我們等待它達到目標價格，這是我們在進行交易時首先考慮的價格。

I don't know if that satisfies you or not, but when -- the assumption behind -- it's a double -- it's an instant double is only in the case of a liquidation, and we're not in liquidation. And yes, we could buy it at $20. And then if we liquidate it tomorrow, we'd get $40 a share. So these are rough -- I don't know what our actual stuff is, but it's $40, $42, or what is it -- what's it, you tell me.

我不知道這是否令你滿意，但是當——背後的假設——它是雙倍——它是即時雙倍僅在清算的情況下出現，而我們沒有處於清算狀態。是的，我們可以花 20 美元購買它。如果我們明天將其清算，我們將獲得每股 40 美元。所以這些都很粗糙——我不知道我們的實際東西是什麼，但它是 40 美元、42 美元，或者是什麼——它是什麼，你告訴我。

It's $35 roughly today.

今天大約是 35 美元。

So $35. So -- but that's only in the case of a liquidation. We're not in a liquidation. If the shareholders want us to liquidate, we'd be glad to listen to that. But even then liquidating at these values would be -- it seems to me to be pretty dumb. We're not naturally sellers at deep discounts, so...

所以 35 美元。所以——但這只是在清算的情況下。我們沒有處於清算狀態。如果股東希望我們清算，我們很樂意聽取。但即便如此，在這些價值上進行清算在我看來也是相當愚蠢的。我們自然不是大幅折扣的賣家，所以......

Okay. Understood. And then maybe a little bit in the same vein here. You kind of threw out the strawman of selling Dun & Bradstreet, and this kind of dovetails into the next question is you sold some CDAY. But why not more CDAY? Why talk about selling Dun & Bradstreet and why not talk about selling CDAY or more of CDAY or maybe just your thinking is different on CDAY, so...

好的。明白了。也許這裡也有一點同樣的脈絡。你有點拋棄了出售 Dun & Bradstreet 的稻草人，這與你出售了一些 CDAY 的下一個問題相吻合。但為什麼不增加 CDAY 呢？為什麼談論出售 Dun & Bradstreet，為什麼不談論出售 CDAY 或更多 CDAY，或者也許只是你對 CDAY 的想法不同，所以......

Well, we sold -- Ian, great point, great question, and I appreciate the -- you're pushing us on these because we -- our credibility is everything. That's not to say -- we sold 1 million shares. We've got 5 left, 5 million left. I'm not going to say -- we can't and shouldn't say one way or another what we're going to do with that inventory, but it wouldn't surprise me for us to sell more.

嗯，我們賣了——伊恩，很好的觀點，很好的問題，我很感激——你在這些方面推動我們，因為我們——我們的信譽就是一切。這並不是說——我們出售了 100 萬股。我們還剩5個，還剩500萬。我不會說——我們不能也不應該以這樣或那樣的方式說出我們將如何處理這些庫存，但如果我們銷售更多，我不會感到驚訝。

I think we'd prefer to sell it back in the $78 range versus the $55 or $56 range. And you might forgive us if we hold out a little bit to see if it doesn't bounce back to that. It's sort of an -- CDAY is -- if you look at the chart, it's really interesting because there they blew out their numbers, and their stock is down 15% in the -- since May 3 when their numbers came out. It didn't make any sense at all.

我認為我們更願意以 78 美元的價格出售，而不是 55 美元或 56 美元的價格。如果我們稍微堅持一下，看看它是否不會反彈，你可能會原諒我們。這有點像——CDAY——如果你看一下圖表，就會發現這真的很有趣，因為他們公佈了他們的數據，自 5 月 3 日他們的數據公佈以來，他們的股價下跌了 15%。這根本沒有任何意義。

The next question comes with John Campbell with Stephens Inc.

下一個問題來自斯蒂芬斯公司的約翰坎貝爾。

Rick, you were on fire with the valuation rundowns on your soapbox. We agree with your stance there. You got a lot of puzzling, kind of disconnects across a handful of these public investments. So we hear you there.

里克，你對演講台上的估值概要很著迷。我們同意你的立場。在這些公共投資中，有很多令人費解的、脫節的地方。所以我們聽到你的聲音了。

On Bournemouth, I mean, obviously, great kind of run of things of late, several points above that relegation line. So it does seem like you guys are in a good spot. You had mentioned last call that -- I think you were kind of tongue in cheek, but mentioned existential threat if you were to go and be relegated. So that's a good outcome so far.

在伯恩茅斯，我的意思是，顯然，最近的一系列事情都很棒，比降級線高出好幾分。所以看起來你們確實處於一個很好的位置。你在上次電話中提到過——我認為你有點開玩笑，但提到瞭如果你離開並被降級的話，存在的威脅。所以到目前為止這是一個很好的結果。

No, it wasn't. It wasn't an existential threat for Bryan and I. It was just for Ryan Caswell, who's sitting here with us.

不，不是。這對布萊恩和我來說不是生存威脅。這只是對和我們一起坐在這裡的瑞恩·卡斯威爾而言。

I heard that. I heard that. But in the past calls, you guys have talked to maybe 3 to 4x your investment on Bournemouth and you're talking about maybe a 5-, 7-year type horizon. And then, Massey, I think you've repeated twice that the implied takeout or the implied value was about 8 -- 0.8x revenue, so a really good price.

我聽說。我聽說。但在過去的電話中，你們談到的投資可能是伯恩茅斯的 3 到 4 倍，而且你們談論的可能是 5 年、7 年的期限。然後，Massey，我想你已經重複了兩次，隱含的外賣或隱含的價值約為 8 - 0.8 倍收入，所以這是一個非常好的價格。

When you look at MANU stock, I'm not close enough to that to determine whether that's pure apples-to-apples, but that one is at about 5x revenues. And Rick, I think you mentioned your perceived peer groups about 5x, so that seems to kind of check-up. If you guys were to get that on Bournemouth, I mean that's pretty substantial. I think it's about $8 per share of incremental value for you guys, about a 40% hoop.

當你觀察 MANU 的股票時，我還不夠接近，無法確定這是否是純粹的同類比較，但它的收入約為 5 倍。 Rick，我認為你提到了你所感知的同齡人群體大約 5 次，所以這似乎是一種檢查。如果你們能在伯恩茅斯得到這個，我的意思是這是相當可觀的。我認為對於你們來說，每股增量價值大約是 8 美元，大約是 40%。

That's -- I was just doing the math in my head. Yes, I think you're in the right range, John.

那是——我只是在心裡算算。是的，我認為你是在正確的範圍內，約翰。

Yes. So that seems to be a pretty meaningful opportunity. I mean, obviously, as we assess the portfolio, there's -- the lion's share of the value is kind of tied to public assets. We can see the price day-to-day.

是的。所以這似乎是一個非常有意義的機會。我的意思是，顯然，當我們評估投資組合時，大部分價值與公共資產相關。我們可以看到每天的價格。

On private side, that's where there's maybe a little bit of extra torque, Bournemouth seems to be the clear opportunity here. So my question here after that rambling is, what do you think the steps you guys need to take to juice the revenue, to get things going, where you think you can eventually be awarded that 5x valuation?

在私人方面，這可能是一些額外扭矩的地方，伯恩茅斯似乎是這裡明顯的機會。所以，在閒聊之後，我的問題是，你們認為你們需要採取什麼措施來增加收入，讓事情順利進行，你們認為你們最終可以獲得 5 倍的估值？

Bryan will handle that.

布萊恩會處理這件事。

Yes. I mean I think when we took over Bournemouth, if you look at the commercial side of the business, it wasn't run as well as we would have hoped or as well as we think that we can do it. So we believed that was a big opportunity. We've hired some people over there, specifically focused on that.

是的。我的意思是，我認為當我們接管伯恩茅斯時，如果你看看業務的商業方面，它的運行並沒有我們希望的那麼好，也沒有我們認為我們能做到的那麼好。所以我們相信這是一個很大的機會。我們在那裡僱用了一些人，專門負責這方面的工作。

Clearly, part of the thesis is you have to stay in the Premier League to get that valuation, which we think we're doing. We also believe that building out the multi-club model, which started with our investment in Lorient, and we're looking at a few others. We think that further cements and helps the value because it helps create sort of additional sponsorship to build -- to make your brand look more -- like some of the clubs if you look further up the standings or the table.

顯然，論文的一部分是你必須留在英超聯賽才能獲得這樣的估值，我們認為我們正在這樣做。我們還相信，建立多俱樂部模式是從我們對洛里昂的投資開始的，我們正在考慮其他一些模式。我們認為，這進一步鞏固並有助於價值，因為它有助於創造某種額外的讚助來建立 - 讓你的品牌看起來更像一些俱樂部 - 如果你進一步查看積分榜或積分榜。

So look, I don't think it -- I don't think we'd sell it -- I don't think we're looking to sell it tomorrow. I think there's some work that we need to do, but we think we're very much on the way in terms of, one, requalification for the Premier League; secondly, building out all of the commercial side of the business and then really taking the learnings from the Vegas Golden Knights, and it's kind of super -- enhancing what they were doing.

所以看，我不認為——我不認為我們會賣掉它——我認為我們明天不會賣掉它。我認為我們需要做一些工作，但我們認為我們在以下方面正在取得進展：第一，重新獲得英超聯賽資格；其次，建立了業務的所有商業方面，然後真正從維加斯金騎士隊那裡吸取了教訓，這有點超級增強了他們正在做的事情。

But -- I don't think it's -- I don't think we could flip it today, John, but I think we are creating the value to get to those comparable transaction multiples that you mentioned earlier.

但是——我不認為——約翰，我認為我們今天無法扭轉局面，但我認為我們正在創造價值，以達到您之前提到的那些可比較的交易倍數。

Yes, John, we were kind of thinking of this as a 5- to 7-year hold and kind of 3, 4x our money as sort of a baseline IRR. I'm not promising that, but that's what we were thinking. It's going to take a while, and -- but you've got the best. Bill brought -- what's the guy's name that...

是的，約翰，我們認為這是 5 到 7 年的持有期，並且是我們資金的 3、4 倍，作為基準 IRR。我不承諾這一點，但這就是我們的想法。這需要一段時間，而且——但你已經擁有了最好的。比爾帶來了——那個人叫什麼名字……

Jim Frevola.

吉姆·弗雷沃拉.

Jim Frevola.

吉姆·弗雷沃拉.

Jim Frevola over there from the Knights. And according to Bill, he's already working magic, and Jim Frevola was ran with the business side. I mean, I don't know, you call it the revenue -- the tickets, sponsorships, concessions, food, beverage, all that stuff. And they were more -- they were unmanaged over there. So there's a long way to go on the downside, but there's a lot of upside.

騎士隊的吉姆·弗雷沃拉在那邊。據比爾說，他已經在施展魔法，而吉姆·弗雷沃拉則負責業務方面的工作。我的意思是，我不知道，你稱之為收入——門票、贊助、優惠、食品、飲料，所有這些東西。而且他們在那裡更不受管理。因此，雖然下行空間還有很長的路要走，但上行空間也很大。

Yes. I agree.

是的。我同意。

Yes. Makes sense. That seems like a very promising opportunity. So we'll be keeping tabs on that. And this is one just kind of minor housekeeping item, but I noticed in the shareholder letter last go around, I think you guys said a 50.1%, so a majority ownership position in BKFE. It looks like on the April update and also in the shareholder letter it's saying 49%. Obviously, not a big difference, but...

是的。說得通。這似乎是一個非常有前途的機會。所以我們將密切關注這一點。這只是一種次要的內務管理項目，但我注意到在上次的股東信中，我想你們說的是 50.1%，所以在 BKFE 擁有多數股權。看起來 4 月份的更新以及股東信中都說是 49%。顯然，差別不大，但是……

Yes. I just took those -- I took those extra shares and put them in my pocket, John. Now, what happened was the company established, as with all companies that we're associated with, a management incentive plan with equity for people like Frevola, and we were slightly diluted by that, and we wrote a check this week to get us back -- it was $3.5 million to get us back to 50.1%.

是的。我只是拿走了那些——我拿走了那些額外的股份，然後把它們放進了我的口袋裡，約翰。現在，發生的事情是，該公司與我們有關聯的所有公司一樣，為像弗雷沃拉這樣的人制定了一項帶有股權的管理層激勵計劃，我們因此被稍微稀釋了，我們本週寫了一張支票讓我們回來——我們花費了 350 萬美元才讓比例恢復到 50.1%。

Good catch. You're reading our stuff. We appreciate it.

接得好。你正在閱讀我們的東西。我們很感激。

Yes, absolutely. And then last one here, and this is another housekeeping item, but the $133 million commitment you guys have called out for BKFE, does -- that includes both Bournemouth and Lorient, right?

是的，一點沒錯。最後一個是這裡，這是另一個家政項目，但是你們為 BKFE 呼籲的 1.33 億美元承諾確實如此——其中包括伯恩茅斯和洛里昂，對嗎？

Yes. And there is in there -- we have to pay the seller of Bournemouth another check, another $20 million for staying in the Premier League, yes.

是的。那裡有 - 我們必須向伯恩茅斯的賣家支付另一張支票，另外 2000 萬美元以留在英超聯賽，是的。

Okay. And that's incremental to the $40 million that's already planned for 3Q?

好的。這是否比第三季度已計劃的 4000 萬美元有所增加？

No, no, no.

不不不。

No, that's included.

不，這已經包括在內了。

The next question comes with Chris Sakai with Singular Research.

下一個問題由 Singular Research 的 Chris Sakai 提出。

Just wanted to ask about potential investments. Where are you seeing better valuations now, in public or private investments?

只是想詢問一下潛在的投資。您現在在哪些方面看到了更好的估值，無論是公共投資還是私人投資？

Public. We don't -- I don't think the private market had adjusted its valuation expectations to where you see a lot of publicly traded companies trading right now. And all I had to do is refer to our -- the portfolio discussion that I had at the outset. Those are public companies, and they've just been crushed. And we don't think the internal valuations that PE have, have gotten anywhere near that.

民眾。我們沒有——我認為私募市場沒有將其估值預期調整到你現在看到的許多上市公司交易的水平。我所要做的就是參考我們一開始進行的投資組合討論。這些都是上市公司，他們剛剛被壓垮了。我們認為私募股權公司的內部估值還沒有達到這個水平。

You are likely to see us do. You are likely to see us. I mean, we -- there's some privates out there that we're looking at. But you're likely to see us probably tilt toward the kind of go private model or investing in public companies at these depressed prices versus the kind of crazy prices that are -- that we're still seeing with these.

您很可能會看到我們這樣做。你很可能會看到我們。我的意思是，我們正在關註一些私人人員。但你可能會看到我們可能會傾向於私有化模式，或者以這些低迷的價格投資於上市公司，而不是我們仍然看到的那種瘋狂的價格。

But I want to emphasize, no private depend on the debt capital -- functioning debt capital markets, and that's not going on now. They're just not -- nobody is doing deals now. It is totally dead.

但我想強調，沒有私人依賴債務資本——運轉良好的債務資本市場，而現在這種情況並沒有發生。他們只是沒有——現在沒有人在做交易。它完全死了。

Okay. Yes. And then can you mention or provide some color on where you're looking for your next investment?

好的。是的。然後您能否提及或提供一些關於您正在尋找下一次投資的地方的信息？

Not without getting to -- getting specific enough that we're still -- I'll just say we're still -- Ryan and Bill are definitely looking at building out the multi-club strategy. And I like the idea of building a multisport business with -- under Bill and Ryan's leadership. And their -- so that's one area that I know that they spend a lot of time on.

並非沒有 - 足夠具體，我們仍然 - 我只是說我們仍然 - 瑞安和比爾肯定正在考慮制定多俱樂部戰略。我喜歡在比爾和瑞安的領導下建立一項多項運動業務的想法。我知道他們在這一領域花費了大量時間。

I'm kind of spending my time on the traditional -- I would call it, traditional Bill Foley companies, Chris, utilities, tech-heavy, either tech services or just pure software, and another thing is we start our investment approaches at home. And it may be that some of the best investments we make over the next year could be in our -- in some of our existing portfolio companies.

我有點把時間花在傳統上——我稱之為傳統的比爾·弗利公司、克里斯、公用事業、科技含量高的公司，要么是技術服務，要么只是純軟件，另一件事是我們在國內開始我們的投資方法。我們明年做出的一些最好的投資可能是在我們現有的一些投資組合公司中。

This concludes our Q&A session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Mr. Rick Massey, Chief Executive Officer, for any closing remarks. Please go ahead.

我們的問答環節到此結束。我想將會議轉回首席執行官 Rick Massey 先生髮表閉幕詞。請繼續。

I want to make sure that we've not -- operator, we've got another -- we usually have RBC on the call. Are they -- I don't want to drop off if they have a question. So can I just -- can we have a moment of silence for our group there and see if they want to ping in on us. And if not, well, I'll say thank you. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for your interest. I hope you see the value in our stock and in the portfolios that we -- the portfolio that we have, it's clearly there. And we're excited about maximizing that.

我想確保我們沒有——接線員，我們還有另一個——我們通常有 RBC 正在通話。如果他們有問題，我不想下車。那麼我可以——我們可以為我們的團隊默哀片刻，看看他們是否願意加入我們。如果沒有，好吧，我會說謝謝。感謝您加入我們。感謝您的關注。我希望你看到我們股票和我們的投資組合的價值——我們擁有的投資組合，它顯然就在那裡。我們很高興能最大限度地發揮這一點。

I see here that we do have another questioner. So it comes from Kenneth Lee with RBC Capital Markets.

我看到這裡確實有另一個提問者。這是來自加拿大皇家銀行資本市場 (RBC Capital Markets) 的肯尼思·李 (Kenneth Lee) 的說法。

There we go.

我們開始吧。

Good afternoon, and thanks for taking my question.

下午好，感謝您提出我的問題。

Sure, mate. We knew you'd probably be on the call, and we didn't want to just hang up without giving you a chance to badger us one way or another. I am just kidding.

當然，伙計。我們知道您可能會接聽電話，我們不想在不給您機會以某種方式糾纏我們的情況下就掛斷電話。我只是開玩笑。

No, absolutely. I appreciate the time. Just one on the AFC Bournemouth. As you look out further and perhaps this also goes with the other clubs as well, how dependent are the profitability of club ownership -- how dependent is it going to be upon the enforcement of UEFA Fair Play Regulations? I just want to gauge your thoughts around that.

不，絕對是。我很感激時間。亞足聯伯恩茅斯只有一場。當你進一步觀察時，也許這也適用於其他俱樂部，俱樂部所有權的盈利能力有多大程度的依賴——它將有多大程度地依賴於歐足聯公平競賽規則的執行？我只是想了解一下您對此的想法。

Do you need to have Fair Play strongly enforced? Or are your projections pretty able to handle it without a strong enforcement there?

您需要嚴格執行公平競爭嗎？或者你的預測是否能夠在沒有強有力的執行的情況下處理它？

Yes. I mean I think there's a few different components of UEFA Fair Play. But in general, a lot of that stuff is aimed more at the big clubs and people who are spending a lot of money to try and get into European competitions. I think it's a little bit less focused.

是的。我的意思是，我認為歐足聯公平競賽有幾個不同的組成部分。但總的來說，很多東西更多的是針對大俱樂部和那些花很多錢試圖進入歐洲比賽的人。我覺得注意力有點不夠集中。

Obviously, I wouldn't have the same regulation, but it's less focused on the smaller team. But frankly, I think it probably helps the competitive balance for smaller teams on the margin. So we've definitely thought about it. It's definitely incorporated in our projections. And I don't -- I think there are other teams that are going to have bigger issues with it than Bournemouth would.

顯然，我不會有同樣的規定，但它不太關注較小的團隊。但坦率地說，我認為這可能有助於邊緣較小團隊的競爭平衡。所以我們肯定已經考慮過這個問題。它肯定已納入我們的預測中。我不認為——我認為還有其他球隊會遇到比伯恩茅斯更大的問題。

Got you. Got you. Very helpful there. And one follow-up, if I may. Is there any thoughts around the legacy restaurant business? What are your longer-term thoughts there? Could we potentially see some -- either some actions or view around that business?

明白你了。明白你了。那裡非常有幫助。如果可以的話，還有一個後續行動。對於傳統餐廳業務有什麼想法嗎？您的長期想法是什麼？我們是否有可能看到一些圍繞該業務的行動或觀點？

Ken, this is Bryan. I mean the one thing I'll say is that our restaurant group has just done a yeoman's job in the last 24 months. They've faced a pandemic, they've faced great labor crisis, they've faced commodity and lately the recession, inflation. They've done a great job.

肯，這是布萊恩。我想說的一件事是，我們的餐廳集團在過去 24 個月裡剛剛完成了自耕農的工作。他們面臨著流行病，他們面臨著巨大的勞動力危機，他們面臨著大宗商品以及最近的經濟衰退和通貨膨脹。他們做得很好。

We closed -- just year-over-year, they closed 17 restaurants that were underperforming and had a drag on the business, and it had great effects. They -- average guest check -- they've raised prices. Average guest check is up 9%. I think they're doing a yeoman's job in an industry that just had unprecedented obstacles in its path a couple of years.

我們關閉了——與去年同期相比，他們關閉了 17 家表現不佳並拖累業務的餐廳，但它產生了巨大的影響。他們——平均客人支票——他們提高了價格。平均賓客支票上漲 9%。我認為他們在這個行業中做的是自耕農的工作，而這個行業幾年來遇到了前所未有的障礙。

We like the business. I don't know that we're going to be in it long term, but with what's been going on in the last couple of years, it's definitely not been the right time to think about moving it. But we're very happy with the way that they have managed through that.

我們喜歡這個行業。我不知道我們是否會長期這樣做，但考慮到過去幾年發生的事情，現在絕對不是考慮移動它的合適時機。但我們對他們解決這個問題的方式感到非常滿意。

Got you. Got you. Very helpful. And one last question...

明白你了。明白你了。很有幫助。最後一個問題...

Ken, you ask all the questions you want. Our time is yours. Sure. And we appreciate your interest.

肯，你想問的問題都問了。我們的時間是你的。當然。我們感謝您的關注。

No, really appreciate it again. Just looking at a high level, just based on all the comments earlier in the call, would you say that further monetizations within the portfolio, is that going to be predicated upon improving valuations or would a deeper discount in your own shares cause you to review it further? I just want to, once again, gauge what could be the potential catalyst down the line in terms of further portfolio monetizations.

不，真的再次感謝。僅從高水平來看，僅根據電話會議之前的所有評論，您是否會說投資組合中的進一步貨幣化是否取決於估值的提高，還是您自己股票的更大折扣會導致您進行審查還進一步嗎？我只是想再次評估一下未來投資組合貨幣化的潛在催化劑是什麼。

That's a -- that is a really good question. And the answer from -- and Bill may have a different point of view. But our job is to manage the portfolio of companies that we have, and it's really hard to work on a dual track where you're watching out for your own shares and the discounts there. We think we get paid to maximize the value of the portfolio, not the shares.

這是一個非常好的問題。比爾的答案可能有不同的觀點。但我們的工作是管理我們擁有的公司投資組合，在雙軌制工作中確實很難，你要留意自己的股票和那裡的折扣。我們認為我們獲得報酬是為了最大化投資組合的價值，而不是股票的價值。

And so our -- I would say the vast -- it's yes -- the answer to your question is yes. It's like -- but I would say it's like 70% -- if this is me. 75% of that is dependent on our portfolio valuation and 25% stock valuation. So that's kind of the way we look at it. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to sell shares of Dun & Bradstreet at $10 down here at half the multiple that its comps trade so that we can buy our shares back or do -- or sit on cash or do whatever else there is with, it doesn't make -- or make another investment, it doesn't make a lot of sense.

所以我們的——我想說的是——是的——你的問題的答案是肯定的。這就像——但我想說這就像 70%——如果這是我的話。其中 75% 取決於我們的投資組合估值，25% 取決於股票估值。這就是我們看待它的方式。以低於 10 美元的價格出售鄧白氏 (Dun & Bradstreet) 股票，其股價是其可比交易倍數的一半，這樣我們就可以回購我們的股票，或者坐擁現金，或者做任何其他事情，這是沒有多大意義的。是的，它不會做出——或者進行另一項投資，這沒有多大意義。

We think that the market is going to eventually reward both Cannae and Dun & Bradstreet with Dun & Bradstreet, and we think it's going to reward both Cannae and Alight with Alight. And hopefully, they'll happen together, and we won't have to choose.

我們認為，市場最終將用鄧白氏公司回報坎尼和鄧白氏公司，並且我們認為市場將用阿萊特公司回報坎尼公司和阿萊特公司。希望它們會一起發生，而我們不必做出選擇。

That was a helpful question, and it's -- you're helping us sharpen the way we think about this. And this is hard. These are hard questions that we have to answer. These are hard. Right now it just feels dumb to sell any of these things at anywhere near the prices that we are talking now.

這是一個很有幫助的問題，你正在幫助我們提高對此問題的思考方式。這很難。這些都是我們必須回答的難題。這些很難。現在，以接近我們現在討論的價格出售這些東西感覺很愚蠢。

And with that, we conclude our question-and-answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Mr. Rick Massey for any closing remarks. Please go ahead, sir.

至此，我們的問答環節就結束了。我想將會議轉回給 Rick Massey 先生做閉幕致辭。請繼續，先生。

Okay. I think I already did it, but thanks a lot. Thanks for your interest, and we look forward to speaking with you again next quarter. Obviously, any of you want to have some side chats with us, work through Rory and Bryan to set something up. We would be happy to talk. So have a good rest of the day.

好的。我想我已經做到了，但是非常感謝。感謝您的關注，我們期待下季度再次與您交談。顯然，你們中的任何人都想與我們進行一些私聊，通過 Rory 和 Bryan 來安排一些事情。我們很樂意交談。所以今天要好好休息。

This concludes today's conference. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect. Have a good day.

今天的會議到此結束。感謝您參加今天的演講。您現在可以斷開連接。祝你有美好的一天。