Costamare Inc (CMRE) 2023 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Thank you for standing by, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Costamare Inc. Conference Call on the Third Quarter 2023 Financial Results. We have with us, Mr. Gregory Zikos, Chief Financial Officer of the company. (Operator Instructions) I must advise you that this conference is being recorded today, Wednesday, November 1, 2023.

女士們、先生們，感謝大家的耐心等待，歡迎參加 Costamare Inc. 關於 2023 年第三季財務業績的電話會議。與我們在一起的還有公司財務長 Gregory Zikos 先生。 （操作員說明）我必須告知您，本次會議將於今天（2023 年 11 月 1 日星期三）進行錄製。

We would like to remind you that this conference call contains forward-looking statements. Please take a moment to read Slide #2 of the presentation, which contains the forward-looking statements.

我們想提醒您，本次電話會議包含前瞻性陳述。請花點時間閱讀簡報的幻燈片#2，其中包含前瞻性陳述。

And I will now pass the floor to your speaker today, Mr. Zikos. Please go ahead, sir.

現在我將請今天的發言者齊科斯先生發言。請繼續，先生。

Thank you, and good morning, ladies and gentlemen. During the third quarter of the year, the company generated net income of about $53 million as of quarter end, liquidity was close to $1 billion. In the containership sector, larger ships continue to enjoy a tight market, while smaller vessels experienced deteriorating conditions. Overall, the market outlook looks uncertain due to the large order book and the insufficient emulation.

謝謝你們，早安，女士們、先生們。今年第三季度，截至季末，該公司淨利約5,300萬美元，流動資金接近10億美元。在貨櫃船領域，大型船舶繼續面臨市場緊張，而小型船舶的狀況則不斷惡化。整體而言，由於訂單量大且模擬不足，後市前景不明朗。

On the dry bulk side, as part of our strategy to renew the fleet and increases our size, we acquired 2 Capesize into our Ultramax vessel. And at the same time, we disposed of 2 older Supramax ships. Our own dry bulk vessels continue to trade on a spot basis, while the trading platform has grown to a fleet of 59 vessels. Having invested $200 million in the dry bulk operating platform, we are long-term committed to the sector, whose fundamentals we view positively.

在乾散貨方面，作為我們更新船隊和擴大規模策略的一部分，我們在 Ultramax 船舶中購買了 2 艘好望角型船舶。同時，我們處置了兩艘較舊的超靈便型船舶。我們自己的乾散貨船繼續進行現貨交易，而交易平台已發展到擁有 59 艘船舶的船隊。我們在乾散貨營運平台上投資了 2 億美元，長期致力於該行業，我們對該行業的基本面持積極態度。

Regarding Neptune Maritime Leasing, the platform has been steadily growing on a prudent basis, having concluded leasing transaction for 17 ships in total, which are complemented by a healthy pipeline extending over the coming quarters. Finally, during the quarter, we continued our share repurchase program, and we bought $10 million worth of common shares, highlighting our strong belief that the share price is heavily undervalued considering both the company's performance and prospects.

海王星海事租賃方面，該平台一直在審慎的基礎上穩步增長，已完成了總共17艘船舶的租賃交易，並在未來幾個季度將保持健康的管道。最後，在本季度，我們繼續實施股票回購計劃，購買了價值 1000 萬美元的普通股，這突顯了我們堅信，考慮到公司的業績和前景，股價被嚴重低估。

Moving now to the slide presentation. On Slide 3, you can see our third quarter results. Net income for the quarter was roughly $53 million or $0.45 per share. Adjusted net income was around $54 million or $0.46 per share. Our liquidity stands at roughly $1 billion.

現在轉到幻燈片演示。在投影片 3 上，您可以看到我們第三季的業績。該季度淨利潤約為 5300 萬美元，即每股 0.45 美元。調整後淨利潤約為 5,400 萬美元，即每股 0.46 美元。我們的流動性約為 10 億美元。

Slide 4, you can see an update on our share repurchase program. Since our Q2 earnings release, we purchased approximately 900,000 common shares for $10 million worth. In addition, we continue to have a long uninterrupted dividend track record boosted by strong sponsor support.

在投影片 4 中，您可以看到我們的股票回購計畫的最新情況。自第二季財報發布以來，我們以價值 1,000 萬美元的價格購買了約 90 萬股普通股。此外，在贊助商的大力支持下，我們繼續擁有長期不間斷的股息記錄。

Slide 5. Regarding CBI, we have chartered in 59-period vessels with the majority of the fleet in index-linked charter-in agreement. On our leasing platform, we have already invested around $74 million. Since inception, NML has financed 17 vessels through sale and lease -- sale and lease-back transactions and has a very healthy pipeline.

投影片 5. 關於 CBI，我們已經租用了 59 艘船期的船舶，其中大部分船隊都簽訂了與指數掛鉤的租船協議。在我們的租賃平台上，我們已經投資了約 7,400 萬美元。自成立以來，NML 已透過銷售和租賃、售後回租交易為 17 艘船舶提供了融資，並擁有非常健康的管道。

Turning to Slide 6. We have acquired 2 Capesize into one Ultramax dry bulk vessel, while we have agreed to sell 2 Supramax dry bulk ships. In addition, we have concluded the sale of a 2000-built containership along with the sale of our 49% equity interest on another 1998-built containership vessel.

轉向幻燈片 6。我們已經收購了 2 艘海岬型乾散貨船並組裝成一艘 Ultramax 幹散裝貨船，同時我們也同意出售 2 艘超靈便型乾散貨船。此外，我們也完成了一艘2000年建造的貨櫃船的出售，以及另一艘1998年建造的貨櫃船49%股權的出售。

Slide 7. During the quarter, we have financed the acquisition of 2 dry bulk vessels to an existing hunting license facility, while we have roughly available $144 million for the financing of vessel acquisitions. We continue to charter all our dry bulk vessels in the spot market, having entered into more than 50 chartering agreements since our last earnings release.

幻燈片 7。本季度，我們為現有狩獵許可證設施收購了 2 艘乾散貨船提供了資金，同時我們大約有 1.44 億美元可用於船舶收購融資。自上次財報發布以來，我們繼續在現貨市場租用所有乾散貨船舶，並已簽訂了 50 多項租船協議。

On the containership side, our revenue days are essentially 100% fixed for this year, 87% for '24 and 73% for '25, while our contracted revenues are $2.7 billion with a TEU-weighted remaining time duration of 3.7 years.

在貨櫃船方面，我們今年的收入天數基本上是100% 固定的，'24 年為87%，'25 年為73%，而我們的合約收入為27 億美元，按TEU 加權的剩餘期限為3.7年。

Slide 8. Our liquidity stands at roughly $1 billion. This liquidity gives us the ability to look for opportunities to grow the company on a prudent basis.

幻燈片 8。我們的流動性約為 10 億美元。這種流動性使我們能夠謹慎地尋找公司發展的機會。

Slide 9 charter rates, the containership market have softened mainly for the smaller sizes remaining though at about pre-COVID levels. The added capacity remains at low levels of 1.7%.

從幻燈片 9 的租船費率來看，貨櫃船市場已經疲軟，主要是小型船舶，但仍處於新冠疫情前的水平。新增產能仍維持在 1.7% 的低水準。

On Slide 10, you can see the recent dry bulk market trends in the spotted forward markets. Charter rates have strengthened since Q2, although remaining volatile. The order book is at 8.1% of the total fleet.

在投影片 10 上，您可以看到已發現的遠期市場的近期乾散貨市場趨勢。自第二季以來，包機費率已走強，但仍不穩定。訂單量佔機隊總數的8.1%。

With that, we can conclude our presentation, and we can now take questions. Thank you.

至此，我們的演講就結束了，現在我們可以問問題了。謝謝。

Operator, we can take questions now.

接線員，我們現在可以提問了。

(Operator Instructions) And your first question comes from the line of Chris Wetherbee from Citigroup.

（操作員說明）您的第一個問題來自花旗集團的 Chris Wetherbee。

I guess maybe I wanted to start on the container side and just get maybe a general sense of your view of, I guess, demand in the market for any term. So I guess I'm just trying to get a sense of we understand the weakness that's out there and obviously the capacity that is entering the market. But as you think about the opportunities for employment, can you just sort of talk us through what you're seeing in the market and what your thoughts are on activity in the rechartering side?

我想也許我想從容器方面開始，大概了解您對任何術語的市場需求的看法。所以我想我只是想了解我們對市場的弱點以及進入市場的產能的了解。但是，當您考慮就業機會時，您能否向我們介紹一下您在市場上看到的情況以及您對改租方面活動的看法？

Yes. We've seen that, I mean, in general, if you compare 10 of previous fixtures a year ago and now, I think on numbers, you can say that we have a shorter-term fixtures for the container ships. And the charter rates have been going down, which is something expected and to some extent, you can argue that it shares because you cannot have a market going up every single year after COVID. So for example, the Panamax vessel is now at -- for a year, the traditional Panamax is now at around between $17,000 to $19,000 per day. Prior to that, it was between $20,000 to $22,000. And also the fixtures we've seen now there for a year or so in the past, we could see fixtures at higher levels for longer periods.

是的。我們已經看到，我的意思是，總的來說，如果你比較一年前和現在的 10 個固定裝置，我認為從數字上看，你可以說我們對貨櫃船有短期固定裝置。包機費率一直在下降，這是預料之中的事情，在某種程度上，你可以說它是共享的，因為在新冠疫情之後，市場不可能每年都在上漲。例如，巴拿馬型船現在的價格在一年內，傳統巴拿馬型船現在的價格約為每天 17,000 美元至 19,000 美元。在此之前，價格在 20,000 美元至 22,000 美元之間。而且我們現在在過去一年左右看到的賽程，我們可能會在更長的時間內看到更高水準的賽程。

Especially for the smaller vessels, you can see the trend that the tenor of the charter party agreement, they tend to become shorter and shorter. Having said that, however, still I think we need to know that the market is holding up relatively well and much better than people thought 6 months ago, although we can see a downward trend, still the charter rate levels, they are at very healthy levels.

特別是對於小型船舶，您可以看到租船協議期限的趨勢，它們往往變得越來越短。然而話雖如此，我仍然認為我們需要知道市場相對良好，比人們 6 個月前想像的要好得多，儘管我們可以看到下降趨勢，但租船費率水平仍然處於非常健康的水平水平。

So they are very healthy, and we can see that, especially for the larger ships, market rates are still quite profitable. So we do have a large order book that needs to be absorbed. It's highly questionable whether demand is going to be in order to digest all the order group. And at the same time, the demolition levels are quite low. So going forward, I think where the market will be heading, I don't think that the supply and demand dynamics we experienced during COVID are going to be there.

所以它們非常健康，我們可以看到，特別是對於較大的船舶，市場價格仍然相當有利可圖。因此，我們確實有大量訂單需要消化。需求是否能夠消化掉所有的訂單群是非常值得懷疑的。同時，拆除水平相當低。因此，展望未來，我認為市場將走向何方，我認為我們在新冠疫情期間經歷的供需動態不會出現。

Quite the opposite, I would say. We do see a downward trend, which is something expected. At the same time, this means more opportunities when sort of asset prices, together with charter levels and also new building prices come at, let's say, more logical levels. This is a time when we, as Costamare, we would be ready to enter the market again. As you know, we didn't put any new bidding orders at the peak of the market over the last years. So we do expect for the market to find its average rate levels. And then this may become more interesting.

我想說恰恰相反。我們確實看到了下降趨勢，這是預期的。同時，這意味著當資產價格、包租水平和新建築價格達到更合理的水平時，就會有更多的機會。這是我們作為 Costamare 準備再次進入市場的時候。如您所知，過去幾年我們在市場高峰時沒有下任何新的投標訂單。因此，我們確實預期市場會找到其平均利率水準。然後這可能會變得更有趣。

Okay. Okay. That's helpful. I appreciate that color. And then on the dry bulk platform, if you could give us a sense of maybe how you think fourth quarter or maybe early first half looks in terms of vessels you plan to charter-in, obviously, this is a little bit of a difficult one for us to model, I want to get a sense of how you're thinking about capacity in that so we can get a better sense of how revenue and profitability could look either the very least in the next quarter, but maybe a little bit further beyond that?

好的。好的。這很有幫助。我很欣賞那種顏色。然後在乾散貨平台上，如果您能讓我們了解一下您對第四季度或上半年初期計劃租用的船舶的看法，顯然，這有點困難對於我們的建模，我想了解一下您如何看待這方面的產能，以便我們可以更好地了解下個季度的收入和盈利能力至少會如何，但可能會更進一步除此之外？

Yes, you're right about it. This is a very difficult business model, I would say, because it's volatile and because it's chartering-in vessels entering into (inaudible) charters entering into vessel relets, cargo relets, and we also have an FFA book in order to complement our exposure. First of all, on the modeling side, we can have enough light discussion, then we can discuss how this can be more streamlined and how we can assist each other.

是的，你說得對。我想說，這是一個非常困難的商業模式，因為它不穩定，而且因為它是租船進入（聽不清楚）租船進入船舶轉租、貨物轉租，而且我們還有一本FFA 書來補充我們的風險。首先，在建模方面，我們可以進行足夠的輕鬆討論，然後我們可以討論如何更加簡化以及如何互相幫助。

Now the company has grown quite substantially since it started beginning of the year. It's 59 ships charter-in. We're going to grow depending on market conditions. We have put the whole infrastructure in place. This company runs with a 0 debt. It's 100% equity funded because it's levered by itself. And we don't need to grow this. But if we take the view that the market conditions justify growing further, we will push the accelerator.

自今年年初以來，該公司已經取得了相當大的成長。共有 59 艘船舶包租。我們將根據市場情況進行成長。我們已經把整個基礎建設到位。這家公司的債務為零。它是 100% 股權融資的，因為它本身就是槓桿的。我們不需要種植這個。但如果我們認為市場狀況證明進一步成長是合理的，我們就會加速前進。

In general, to have a healthy operator, this operator is also to have size, and I don't think that we have yet reached the desired size levels. But the timing, it will also be dictated by market conditions. So overall, we are long-term committed to that business. Our goal is to grow this further, and we will, but the timing, I'm afraid we need to have a better view of market, and we're going to be evaluating on a quarter-by-quarter basis.

總的來說，要有一個健康的算子，這個算子也要有規模，我認為我們還沒有達到理想的規模水準。但具體時間也將由市場狀況決定。總的來說，我們長期致力於這項業務。我們的目標是進一步發展，我們會的，但時間上，恐怕我們需要更好地了解市場，我們將逐季度進行評估。

The next question comes from Omar Nokta with Jefferies.

下一個問題來自傑弗里斯的奧馬爾諾克塔 (Omar Nokta)。

I just wanted to follow up on Chris' question, just about the dry bulk platform. And it sounds like you maybe -- in your response here just now was kind of talking about maybe the CBI portion of it. Yes, I wanted to just ask, obviously, you have the nearly $1 billion of liquidity. You have the $2.7 billion backlog. You did -- or you continue to build out the fleet, the owned fleet with the latest cases in the Ultramax. I wanted to ask, how do you see that going forward? Are you looking to continue building it out from here, the actual asset ownership side and is it a case that you would be focused on further? Or is it just simply you're looking to renew bringing in some bigger ships and selling some of the older, smaller ones. Kind of how do we think about the fleet expansion from here?

我只是想跟進克里斯的問題，關於乾散貨平台。聽起來您可能 - 在您剛才的回復中可能談論了其中的 CBI 部分。是的，我只想問，顯然，你們擁有近 10 億美元的流動性。您有 27 億美元的積壓訂單。你做到了——或者你繼續建造船隊，擁有最新的Ultramax貨櫃船隊。我想問一下，您如何看待未來的發展？您是否希望繼續從這裡開始建立它，即實際資產所有權方面，您是否會進一步關注這種情況？或者您只是想更新引進一些更大的船隻並出售一些舊的、較小的船隻。我們如何看待從這裡開始的機隊擴張？

Sure. What like our strategy now is principle to grow the dry bulk owned platform and what we have been doing, we have been selling smaller and on average, older ships. The last one we sold there was 2006-built, and we have been buying larger vessels, Capes and one at Ultramax, younger vessels, let's say, 2011-build. So going forward, of course, assuming that this makes sense that the numbers work out well. Our strategy would be to increase the average size of the dry bulk owned fleet first and also break down the average 8.

當然。我們現在的策略是發展乾散貨自有平台的原則，而我們一直在做的事情是，我們一直在銷售較小且平均較舊的船舶。我們在那裡出售的最後一艘是 2006 年建造的，我們一直在購買較大的船舶 Capes 和 Ultramax 的一艘較年輕的船舶，比如說 2011 年建造的。當然，展望未來，假設數字表現良好，這是有道理的。我們的策略是先增加乾散貨自有船隊的平均規模，並打破平均規模8。

It's those 2 things. And we have started with buying those Capes and selling the smaller vessels. Going forward, assuming that we find transactions that make sense, this is what we're going to be doing. So the goal ideally would be to -- in a reasonable amount of time to dispose of the smaller Handys and replace them with younger and larger ships as mostly Ultramax and Capes. Of course, again, I have to put a caveat here, depending on market conditions and depending on asset prices.

就是這兩件事。我們已經開始購買這些好望角並出售較小的船隻。展望未來，假設我們發現有意義的交易，這就是我們要做的事。因此，理想的目標是在合理的時間內處置較小的靈便型船舶，並用更年輕和更大的船舶（主要是 Ultramax 和 Capes）取代它們。當然，我必須再次在此提出警告，具體取決於市場狀況和資產價格。

Got it. And just in sort of thinking about that and how you look to build out the own fleet? How do you see that business working with the trading platform? I think I may have asked this in the past, but are they complementing each other at the moment? Or are they still kind of completely separate businesses?

知道了。只是在思考這一點以及您打算如何建立自己的艦隊？您如何看待該企業與交易平台的合作？我想我過去可能問過這個問題，但現在它們是互補的嗎？或者它們仍然是完全獨立的業務？

First, I mean, the they are being run by different management teams with something that makes sense. So they are 2 stand-alone businesses, all -- both under the Costamare Inc. umbrella who is a shareholder. At the same time, you can argue that they complement each other a lot. But they are being run by different people, different management teams.

首先，我的意思是，它們由不同的管理團隊管理，並且有一些有意義的東西。因此，它們是兩家獨立的企業，都在 Costamare Inc. 旗下，Costamare Inc. 是其股東。同時，你也可以說它們是互補的。但它們是由不同的人、不同的管理團隊所經營的。

In the first business, we are 100% owners. The CBI in the platform, we are charterers. We also do relet. We will do cargo relet. We have an FFA book. It's a different business, but they definitely complement its other. Now what's going to be happening in the future, I cannot predict. Again, it depends on market continues. But for the time being, I think, it works out relatively well. So we leave it as it is, and there are a lot of synergies and complements, correct?

在第一項業務中，我們是 100% 的所有者。平台中的CBI，我們是承租人。我們也做轉租。我們將做貨物轉租。我們有一本 FFA 書。這是一項不同的業務，但它們絕對是其他業務的補充。現在，未來會發生什麼，我無法預測。同樣，這取決於市場的持續發展。但就目前而言，我認為效果還不錯。所以我們就保持原樣，這樣就會有很多協同作用和補充，對嗎？

Got it. Okay. And then maybe just one final one. And I know you mentioned in the release, you've committed that the $200 million to CBI. If I recall, the business was loss-making in the first half just the trading side of it. You mentioned that rates of order, we've obviously seen quarter-to-date average in the fourth quarter relative to what we've seen this year. But just in general, any color you can give on how the platform performed in the third quarter? And maybe how it's sort of looking here in the fourth?

知道了。好的。然後也許只是最後一件事。我知道您在新聞稿中提到，您已向 CBI 承諾提供 2 億美元。如果我記得的話，上半年該業務僅在交易方面處於虧損狀態。您提到訂單率，與今年相比，我們顯然看到了第四季度迄今為止的平均水平。但總的來說，您能對該平台在第三季的表現有何評價？也許第四節看起來怎麼樣？

Yes. Look, the platform we fixed the first 6 months, there have been a lot of initial asset, of course. And it is a company that started operating from 0 reaching 60 vessels within a certain amount of time in order to put all the systems in place, hire people and have the core infrastructure supporting the business. So it's something normal to be sort of losing money the first 6 months, and we didn't expect to enter into this business within the first month or like a year be highly profitable. So I think this is more or less the case in all similar platforms. Now going forward, regarding Q3, we're going to be releasing the numbers with our 6K filing pretty soon. For year-end, I don't know how the platform is going to be performing. But I can tell you that this is not a short term or even a medium-term deal here. We talk about the long-term commitment to the sector, which is complementing as we mentioned, the dry bulk owned fleet.

是的。看，我們在前6個月固定了這個平台，當然有很多初始資產。這是一家在一定時間內從 0 艘船舶開始運營到 60 艘船舶的公司，以便將所有系統安裝到位、僱用人員並擁有支援業務的核心基礎設施。因此，前 6 個月虧損是很正常的事情，我們沒想到進入這項業務在第一個月或一年之內就能獲得高額利潤。所以我認為所有類似的平台都或多或少有這種情況。現在，關於第三季度，我們將很快發布 6K 文件的數據。到了年底，我不知道該平台的表現如何。但我可以告訴你，這不是一個短期協議，甚至不是一個中期協議。我們談論對該行業的長期承諾，正如我們所提到的，該行業是對乾散貨自有船隊的補充。

So we're not going to be taking a short-sighted view that record that it is doing well in the first half of the year or that. After the company was set up the first year or like the first 6 months, it has not been highly profitable. We take a long-term view, and I think this is how it should be viewed because we need to have a minimum size. We need to have a minimum size of the book in terms of cargo book as well. And based on that, we're going to be trading. So the long-term view, this is sort of -- this remains to be seen. But the company has been very well capitalized. We are supporting it, and we will continue supporting it. And as mentioned earlier, it has no debt. So it's all equity in order to make sure that it's going to be operating freely of any debt restrictions.

因此，我們不會採取短視的觀點，認為它在今年上半年表現良好或其他。公司成立後的第一年或前六個月，獲利水準並不高。我們著眼長遠，我認為這就是應該如何看待它，因為我們需要有一個最小的規模。我們還需要有貨物簿的最小尺寸。在此基礎上，我們將進行交易。因此，從長遠來看，這還有待觀察。但該公司資本充足。我們支持它，並將繼續支持它。正如前面提到的，它沒有債務。因此，這一切都是股權，以確保它能夠不受任何債務限制地自由運作。

Next question comes from Ben Nolan with Stifel.

下一個問題來自本·諾蘭和史蒂菲爾。

So just a follow-up on the CBI stuff. I'm just -- just as I'm trying to get my head around what causes things to move, Greg. Maybe if you could, in September and in the first part of October, we saw a real sharp turn up and the Capesize rates have subsequently come down. Can you maybe frame in what that kind of a move does to the profitability, if anything? Or just trying to see where the sensitivities are with respect to rate movements and profitability.

這只是 CBI 內容的後續行動。我只是——就在我試圖弄清楚是什麼導致事情發生變化的時候，格雷格。也許如果可以的話，在 9 月和 10 月上半月，我們看到了真正的急劇上升，好望角型船費率隨後下降。您能否闡述這種舉措對獲利能力有何影響（如果有的話）？或者只是想看看利率變動和獲利能力的敏感度在哪裡。

Look, it's difficult to -- I mean, it's -- there's also some commercial restrictions here. We have an FFA book on Capes, and we also have fronthaul voyages on Capes as well. So since we charter-in and then we enter into (inaudible) charters. So regarding the volatility in Capes, we do try to take advantage of it both with the FFA book and with the positioning of the vessels and it's 37 of those. I'm afraid I cannot get into more detail on that because it's like telling you how like we run our Capes business during Q4, which it's difficult for me to explain now in an open core.

聽著，這很困難——我的意思是——這裡還有一些商業限制。我們有一本關於好望角的 FFA 書，我們也有好望角的前程航行。因此，既然我們包機了，然後我們就簽訂了（聽不清楚）包機。因此，關於好望角的波動性，我們確實嘗試透過 FFA 手冊和船舶定位來利用它，其中有 37 艘船舶。我害怕我無法詳細說明這一點，因為這就像告訴您我們在第四季度如何經營我們的 Capes 業務，我現在很難在開放的核心中解釋這一點。

But I can tell you that the first priority is to monitor our downside and then opportunistically, capitalize on this Capes volatility, especially in the last 2 to 3 weeks, charter rates in the Capes market has been very volatile and the same applies for the FAAs, and we try to take advantage of it. The Panamax market at the same time, it's much more stable. So it doesn't offer a lot of volatility-driven opportunities. But I'm afraid I cannot get into more detail on that. It's like revealing what we do and what our loan console position on Capes and to Panamax is now, which it's difficult for me to enter into.

但我可以告訴你，首要任務是監控我們的下行趨勢，然後伺機利用好望角的波動性，特別是在過去 2 至 3 週內，好望角市場的包機費率波動很大，FAA 也是如此，我們嘗試利用它。同時，巴拿馬型船市場則穩定得多。因此它並沒有提供很多波動驅動的機會。但恐怕我無法詳細說明這一點。這就像透露我們在做什麼以及我們在好望角型和巴拿馬型方面的貸款控制台現在的位置，這對我來說很難進入。

Okay. Well, I appreciate the commercial sensitivities around that. Maybe just from a broader perspective, as we're thinking about how, again, what the drivers for profitability are. Is it fair to assume that there'll be long periods of time where there aren't any major shifts in profitability and then small episodes of substantial upside? Is that how we should think about -- with the revenue and profitability format would look like?

好的。嗯，我很欣賞這方面的商業敏感度。也許只是從更廣泛的角度來看，因為我們正在思考獲利能力的驅動因素是什麼。假設在很長一段時間內獲利能力不會發生重大變化，然後會出現小幅大幅上漲，這樣的假設是否公平？這是我們應該如何思考的──收入和獲利模式會是什麼樣子？

Yes. Look, if you are referring to CBI because this is the mostly what I did in sort of business portfolios. I can tell you that based on the backlog of our container contracted revenues, $2.7 billion contracted revenues at sort of very healthy rates. Based on the low breakeven cost of the dry bulk owned vessels, which we bought at a very good time and they have a very low leverage. And based on the predictability and profitability, although at lower levels of like the next maritime leasing, which is a very stable business, I think any sort of short-term volatility in terms of profitability at the CBI level can be very easily absorbed by the whole company. Otherwise, we wouldn't be doing this.

是的。聽著，如果你指的是 CBI，因為這是我在商業投資組合中所做的大部分工作。我可以告訴你，根據我們貨櫃合約收入的積壓，27 億美元的合約收入處於非常健康的水平。基於乾散貨自有船舶的低盈虧平衡成本，我們在非常好的時機購買了這些船舶，並且它們的槓桿率非常低。基於可預測性和盈利能力，儘管處於較低水平，例如下一個海上租賃，這是一項非常穩定的業務，但我認為 CBI 層面的盈利能力方面的任何短期波動都可以很容易地被整個公司。否則，我們就不會這樣做。

So I mean, in a nutshell, I think we can digest any short-term downturn of the market, which is something that is part of the business, you cannot avoid it. However, the upside, it's very substantial. So the downside based on the rest of the business we hold, it's something manageable.

所以我的意思是，簡而言之，我認為我們可以消化市場的任何短期低迷，這是業務的一部分，你無法避免它。然而，它的好處是非常可觀的。因此，根據我們持有的其他業務，其負面影響是可以控制的。

So otherwise, we would enter into that business if we didn't have the containership backlog, et cetera. And there is a lot of upside. So this is how we look at it. At the same time, this is a business that it is complementing our dry bulk owned vessels, which makes sense for us. So it is a calculated risk, if I can say that based on the backlog of contracted revenues, low levels at the Costamare Inc. level, high liquidity, attractive long-term charters in the containership sector, very stable business, the leasing business. So I mean, this is how we view it.

因此，否則，如果我們沒有貨櫃船積壓等，我們就會進入該業務。而且還有很多好處。這就是我們的看法。同時，這項業務也補充了我們擁有的乾散貨船舶，這對我們來說很有意義。因此，如果我可以說，基於積壓的合約收入、Costamare Inc.水平的低水平、高流動性、貨櫃船行業有吸引力的長期租船、非常穩定的業務、租賃業務，那麼這是一個經過計算的風險。所以我的意思是，這就是我們的看法。

Yes. Understood. And I was just speaking on a CBI level on a stand-alone basis, just trying to think through what the normal path to profitability looks like, just sort of stable-ish at kind of modest levels and then every once in a while, you see big moves. That's how you frame it?

是的。明白了。我只是在獨立的基礎上談論 CBI 水平，只是試圖思考正常的盈利路徑是什麼樣的，只是在適度的水平上保持穩定，然後每隔一段時間，你看到大動作。你就是這麼框定的？

You can have like a bigger moves, which does not translate into cash in the mark-to-market of the FFAs, like unrealized losses or gains which, however, do not have a cash impact, but it is profitability in brackets affecting EPS. There may be moved there from the pure operation of the business charter-in charter-out into (inaudible), et cetera, and settlement of FFAs leaving aside unrealized exposure. For the whole size of Costamare, this is not something that would change the fundamentals of our profitability.

你可以有更大的變動，這不會轉化為FFA 按市值計價的現金，例如未實現的損失或收益，但不會產生現金影響，但會影響每股收益（EPS）的括號內的盈利能力。可能會從業務租入租出的純粹經營轉移到（聽不清楚）等，以及FFA的結算，而忽略未實現的風險。對於 Costamare 的整體規模而言，這不會改變我們獲利的基本面。

Sure. yes. No, and I appreciate that. The last question for me is just on the buybacks, obviously, see the common buybacks. And curious -- I mean, first of all, it's been exclusive to the common and not to the preferred. So I know it can be either curious how you're thinking that. And in terms of the common buybacks, I mean, is this -- the $10 million, is this is sort of what you think is a good run rate per quarter?

當然。是的。不，我很欣賞這一點。我的最後一個問題只是關於回購，顯然，請參閱常見的回購。好奇的是——我的意思是，首先，它是普通人獨有的，而不是首選的。所以我知道你可能會好奇你是怎麼想的。就常見回購而言，我的意思是，這 1000 萬美元是您認為每季良好的運行率嗎？

Yes. Look, I cannot predict the future. I cannot tell you like whether we're going to be doing any more buybacks in Q4 or if we do, what's going to be the size of it, et cetera. It depends. But we bought back common, as you rightly said, and not like preferred because we think that the common is definitely undervalued. However, you look at it in terms of (inaudible), however, you look at it. We did some buybacks of preferred in the past when it was trading at $15, $16. Now it's trading out at par or likely slightly above par. We have $150 million there to buy back. But we have been focusing on the common up to now, which does make sense. However, I cannot predict what like we're going to be doing the next quarters. We put back in total $60 million worth of common shares. We have a program for 30 more, but this program can be easily extended, we'll see. We take it quarter by quarter.

是的。聽著，我無法預測未來。我無法告訴你我們是否會在第四季度進行更多回購，或者如果我們這樣做，回購的規模會有多大，等等。這取決於。但正如您所說，我們回購了普通股，而不是優先股，因為我們認為普通股肯定被低估了。然而，你以（聽不清楚）的方式看待它，但是，你看待它。過去，當優先股的交易價格為 15 美元、16 美元時，我們進行了一些回購。現在它的交易價格為平價或可能略高於平價。我們有 1.5 億美元可以回購。但到目前為止，我們一直在關注共同點，這確實有道理。然而，我無法預測我們接下來幾季會做什麼。我們總共投入了價值 6000 萬美元的普通股。我們有一個可容納 30 人以上的計劃，但這個計劃可以輕鬆擴展，我們拭目以待。我們一個季度一個季度地進行。

Next question comes from Climent Molins with Value Investor's Edge.

下一個問題來自《價值投資者優勢》的克萊門特·莫林斯 (Climent Molins)。

I would like to start by asking on the change in reporting. You previously provided a breakdown on a segment-by-segment basis, which was really helpful. But the aforementioned breakdown was not created for this quarter. Should we expect this change to be permanent?

我想先詢問報告方面的變化。您之前提供了逐個細分的細分，這非常有幫助。但本季並未創建上述細分。我們是否應該預期這種變化是永久性的？

The breakdown we had in the previous quarter was of no use at all because in any case, you can find the numbers in the 6-K filing. So I'm afraid, I will have to refer you to the 6-K filing, where like you're going to be able to see the breakdown. It didn't provide with any value. It just made the press release longer. This is the reason we took it out.

我們上一季的細分數據根本沒有任何用處，因為無論如何，您都可以在 6-K 歸檔中找到這些數字。所以恐怕我必須向您推薦 6-K 文件，這樣您就可以看到詳細資訊。它沒有提供任何價值。它只是讓新聞稿變得更長。這就是我們把它拿出來的原因。

Right. Makes sense. Chris, Ben and Omar already asked about CBI, but could you provide some additional insight on how your own dry bulk vessels performed during the quarter? For example, the TCE you realized on that side of the fleet?

正確的。說得通。 Chris、Ben 和 Omar 已經詢問了 CBI，但您能否提供一些有關您自己的干散貨船在本季度表現的更多見解？例如，您在艦隊那一側實現的TCE？

Look, the profitability of the dry bulk vessel is going to be again part of our 6-K filing. We have a mixed number of -- since we have funds, we have now a couple of Capes, we have Panamaxes. I think overall, based on the fleet that we have, it has performed fine. It has performed well, but I don't want to go into more detail what was the TCE of the Handys XYZ and then what was rating of every vessel, et cetera. Most of the vessels or like all of them actually with some -- with very few exceptions. They are trading on the spot market. So we do follow the index.

看，幹散貨船的盈利能力將再次成為我們 6-K 備案的一部分。我們有混合數量的——因為我們有資金，我們現在有幾艘好望角船，我們有巴拿馬型船。我認為總體而言，基於我們擁有的機隊，它表現良好。它表現良好，但我不想更詳細地介紹 Handys XYZ 的 TCE 以及每艘船的評級，等等。大多數船隻，或者像所有船隻一樣，實際上都有一些——除了極少數例外。他們在現貨市場上進行交易。所以我們確實遵循索引。

This concludes our question-and-answer session. I would now like to pass the floor to Mr. Zikos for his closing remarks.

我們的問答環節到此結束。現在請齊科斯先生作閉幕發言。

Thank you very much for dialing in, in today's call. We are looking forward to speaking with you again in the next quarterly results call. Thank you.

非常感謝您撥通今天的電話。我們期待在下一個季度業績電話會議中再次與您交談。謝謝。

Thank you. That does conclude our conference for today. Thank you all for participating. You may now disconnect your lines.

謝謝。我們今天的會議到此結束。感謝大家的參與。現在您可以斷開線路。