Cimpress PLC (CMPR) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to the Cimpress Q4 FY 2024 earnings call. I will introduce Meredith Burns, Vice President of Investor Relations and Sustainability.

歡迎參加 Cimpress 2024 財年第四季財報電話會議。我將介紹投資者關係和永續發展副總裁 Meredith Burns。

Thank you, [Dee], and thanks, everyone, for joining us. With us today are Robert Keane, Founder, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, and Sean Quinn, EVP and Chief Financial Officer. We appreciate the time that you've dedicated to understand our results commentary and outlook. This live Q&A session will last about 45 minutes, and we'll answer both pre-submitted and live questions. You can submit questions via the questions and answers box at the bottom left of your webcast screen.

謝謝你，[Dee]，也謝謝大家加入我們。今天與我們在一起的有創始人、董事長兼首席執行官羅伯特·基恩 (Robert Keane) 和執行副總裁兼首席財務官肖恩·奎恩 (Sean Quinn)。我們感謝您花時間了解我們的結果評論和前景。本次現場問答環節將持續約 45 分鐘，我們將回答預先提交的問題和現場問題。您可以透過網路廣播螢幕左下角的問題與解答框提交問題。

Before we start, I'll note that in this session we will make statements about the [convert]. Our actual results may differ materially from these statements due to risk factors that are outlined in detail in our SEC filings and the documents we published yesterday on our website. We also have published non-GAAP reconciliations for our financial results on our IR website, and we invite you to read them.

在我們開始之前，我要指出的是，在本次會議中，我們將就[轉變]。由於我們向 SEC 提交的文件以及我們昨天在網站上發布的文件中詳細概述的風險因素，我們的實際結果可能與這些聲明有重大差異。我們也在 IR 網站上發布了非 GAAP 財務績效調整表，邀請您閱讀。

And now I will turn things over to Sean.

現在我會把事情交給肖恩。

Great. Thanks a lot, Meredith, and thanks to everyone who has joined us today. Before we get into questions, I'm just going to highlight a few things from the two documents that we published yesterday. That first document was our earnings document that we normally publish. And then the second one is Robert's annual letter to investors. As we noted in the earnings documents, Cimpress had a strong finish to a strong year and Q4 consolidated revenue grew 6% on both a reported basis and organic constant currency basis. For the full year, revenue grew 7% on a reported basis and a little over 5% on an organic constant currency basis.

偉大的。非常感謝，梅雷迪思，也感謝今天加入我們的所有人。在我們提出問題之前，我只想強調我們昨天發布的兩份文件中的一些內容。第一份文件是我們通常會發布的收益文件。第二封是羅伯特寫給投資者的年度信。正如我們在收益文件中指出的那樣，Cimpress 為強勁的一年畫上了圓滿的句號，第四季度合併收入按報告基礎和有機固定貨幣基礎增長了 6%。全年營收按報告計算成長 7%，以有機固定匯率計算成長略高於 5%。

Adjusted EBITDA grew $5 million year-over-year in Q4 to $190 million off of a tougher comp last year that had some one-time benefits, and we had year-over-year currency headwinds of a little more than $3 million as expected. For the full year, adjusted EBITDA grew $129 million year-over-year to $469 million, which is 38% growth. And that growth is inclusive of year-over-year currency headwinds of $90 million, which is consistent with the expectation for currency impact that we said at the beginning of the year, our full year adjusted EBITDA margins were up over 300 basis points to 14.2% in fiscal 2024. And that was driven by a combination of revenue growth, gross margin expansion and then also the cost reductions that we announced last March.

調整後的EBITDA 在第四季度同比增長了500 萬美元，達到1.9 億美元，而去年的比較更加嚴格，帶來了一些一次性的好處，而且我們的同比匯率阻力比預期的略多於300 萬美元。全年調整後 EBITDA 年增 1.29 億美元，達到 4.69 億美元，成長 38%。這一增長包括 9000 萬美元的同比貨幣逆風，這與我們年初所說的貨幣影響的預期一致，我們全年調整後 EBITDA 利潤率增長了 300 個基點，達到 14.2 2024 財年的百分比。這是由收入成長、毛利率擴張以及我們去年三月宣布的成本削減共同推動的。

From a segment perspective, every segment accelerated revenue growth sequentially this quarter, with the exception of National Pen, where we made a choice to reduce advertising spend and that impacted the revenue growth rate but significantly improved profitability. In Vista, we continue to see growth in per customer value, which is a trend that we've been talking about for several years now. And we had our sixth consecutive quarter of growth in the number of customers we're serving as well. So those two things combined are having a positive impact, and that's been driving a lot of incremental that's been driven by a lot of incremental improvements in the customer experience, but also new product introduction that's supporting the attraction and retention of higher value customers across our geographic markets.

從細分市場來看，本季每個細分市場的營收均較上季加速成長，但National Pen除外，我們選擇減少廣告支出，影響了營收成長率，但顯著提高了獲利能力。在 Vista 中，我們繼續看到每個客戶價值的成長，這是我們多年來一直在談論的趨勢。我們所服務的客戶數量也連續第六個季度成長。因此，這兩件事結合起來產生了積極的影響，這推動了許多增量，這是由客戶體驗的大量增量改進所推動的，而且新產品的推出也支持在我們的整個業務中吸引和保留更高價值的客戶。

Over the last two years, the value of Vista's new customer cohorts has been strong. And over time, what we're seeing is that starting to have more impact on the health of repeat customer performance as well. Adjusted free cash flow was $117 million for Q4 and $261 million for the full year. A great result that benefited from our strong profit growth that I just went through, but also strong working capital inflows. Q4 did include proceeds from the sale of a building for just over $17 million that was something that we referenced last quarter, but nonetheless, very strong cash flow results. It was our highest ever for a fiscal year and also for a fourth quarter.

過去兩年，Vista 新客戶群的價值一直很強大。隨著時間的推移，我們看到這也開始對回頭客績效的健康產生更大的影響。第四季調整後自由現金流為 1.17 億美元，全年調整後自由現金流為 2.61 億美元。這一偉大的成果得益於我們剛剛經歷的強勁利潤成長，以及強勁的營運資本流入。第四季確實包括以略高於 1700 萬美元的價格出售一棟大樓的收益，這是我們上季度提到的，但儘管如此，現金流結果仍然非常強勁。這是我們本財年和第四季的最高水準。

During fiscal 2024, we repurchased 1.7 million shares for $157 million at an average price per share of $91.9. That represents a 7% reduction to the shares outstanding at June 30, 2023. And we're able to do that while substantially reducing leverage and increasing liquidity. Of that total fiscal 2024 repurchase, we repurchased 638,000 shares in Q4 for $56 million at an average price per share of $8.20. We finished the quarter with net leverage at June 30 of just under 3.0 times trailing 12-month EBITDA as defined by our credit agreement. And that's down from 3.9 times last year.

2024 財年，我們以 1.57 億美元的價格回購了 170 萬股股票，每股平均價格為 91.9 美元。這意味著截至 2023 年 6 月 30 日的流通股減少了 7%。我們能夠做到這一點，同時大幅降低槓桿並增加流動性。在 2024 財年的回購總額中，我們在第四季以 5,600 萬美元的價格回購了 638,000 股股票，每股平均價格為 8.20 美元。截至 6 月 30 日，本季結束時，我們的淨槓桿率略低於信貸協議定義的過去 12 個月 EBITDA 的 3.0 倍。這比去年的 3.9 倍有所下降。

Our multiyear outlook remains very positive and also unchanged. We expect to grow organic constant currency revenue at mid-single digit rates, possibly a little higher. We expect to grow adjusted EBITDA slightly faster than revenue. And we expect a multiyear conversion rate of adjusted EBITDA on a to adjusted free cash flow to be approximately 45% to 50% with fluctuations from year to year. In our earnings document, we also shared some housekeeping items that hopefully will be helpful for all of you as you seek to estimate our profitability and free cash flow for FY25. I'm not going to go through all those details here, but I'm happy to take any questions that you may have on that.

我們的多年前景仍然非常樂觀，也沒有改變。我們預期有機固定貨幣收入將以中個位數的速度成長，甚至可能更高一些。我們預計調整後 EBITDA 的成長速度將略快於營收的成長速度。我們預計調整後 EBITDA 與調整後自由現金流的多年轉換率約為 45% 至 50%，且逐年波動。在我們的收益文件中，我們也分享了一些內務管理項目，希望在您尋求估計我們 2025 財年的盈利能力和自由現金流時對大家有所幫助。我不會在這裡詳細介紹所有這些細節，但我很樂意回答您對此可能提出的任何問題。

And our plans for this next fiscal year, fiscal 2025 will be done all within the context of the leverage policy and commentary that we introduced last quarter, which also remains unchanged. This is a strong year. It's a year that just ended. And now all of our focus is on continuing to build on that progress in fiscal 2025 in the years ahead, I'd encourage everyone to read Robert's annual investor letter that was also published last night and gives an update on our strategic profit progress after years of hard work through transformation technology migrations increased investment. We feel we're poised to continue the progress that we had in fiscal 2024, leveraging our scale-based advantages that we're seeking to build upon, including in the area of production and supply chain where we'll be investing more in CapEx in the year ahead to take advantage of opportunities there.

我們下一財年（2025 財年）的計畫將全部在我們上季推出的槓桿政策和評論的背景下完成，這些政策和評論也保持不變。今年是強勁的一年。這是剛結束的一年。現在我們所有的重點都是在未來幾年繼續在2025 財年取得這一進展，我鼓勵大家閱讀羅伯特的年度投資者信函，該信函也在昨晚發布，其中介紹了我們多年後戰略利潤進展的最新情況努力透過轉型技術遷移加大投入。我們認為，我們準備繼續在 2024 財年取得的進展，利用我們正在尋求建立的基於規模的優勢，包括在生產和供應鏈領域，我們將在資本支出方面進行更多投資來年要充分利用那裡的機會。

So with that, Meredith, why don't we get into questions.

那麼，梅雷迪思，我們為什麼不提出問題呢？

Great. Thanks, Sean. For everyone, as a reminder, you can submit questions during this webcast via the questions and answers box at the bottom of the screen, we have received a couple of pre-submitted questions and then I'll add the live ones as they come in. So our first question, I'm going to have Sean answer.

偉大的。謝謝，肖恩。對於每個人，提醒一下，您可以在本次網路廣播期間透過螢幕底部的問題與解答框提交問題，我們收到了一些預先提交的問題，然後我將在收到即時問題時添加它們。所以我們的第一個問題，我將讓肖恩回答。

Can you provide an apples breakdown of run rate EBITDA growth for Q4 FY24 versus Q4 FY23. I note from the release that currency lowered EBITDA by $3.1 million in FY24 one-time items benefited FY23 EBITDA by $3 million, and that Vista advertising was up by 130 basis points in FY24. I also note that the quarter ended on a Friday last year and on a Sunday this year, which might adversely impact this year, it would be helpful to understand how much run rate EBITDA grew in before FY24 normalizing for the unusual items?

您能否提供 2024 財年第 4 季與 2023 財年第 4 季的 EBITDA 營運率成長明細。我從新聞稿中註意到，貨幣使 2024 財年一次性項目的 EBITDA 降低了 310 萬美元，使 2023 財年的 EBITDA 受益了 300 萬美元，而 Vista 廣告在 2024 財年增長了 130 個基點。我還注意到，該季度於去年的周五和今年的周日結束，這可能會對今年產生不利影響，了解在 2024 財年異常項目正常化之前 EBITDA 增長了多少會有所幫助？

Great. Well, thanks for the question. It's a good one and there's a lot of seats on there that we always have some timing differences and shifts and things like timing of holidays or how many days on a quarter. And that's an impact comparisons to last year. So to some extent, yes, there's always some of this, but I would say this quarter in Q4, that impact was definitely more notable. There are a few things that we called out in the release as you note in the question, just to go through them. The first is that that I mentioned in my opening remarks as well. Currency was a negative year-over-year impact year over year impact of just over $3 million on EBITDA. And that was $90 million for the full year, $3 million for the quarter and so that's one.

偉大的。嗯，謝謝你的提問。這是一個很好的座位，那裡有很多座位，我們總是有一些時間差異和輪班，以及諸如假期時間或每季有多少天之類的事情。這是與去年相比的影響。所以在某種程度上，是的，總是會有一些這樣的情況，但我想說的是，在第四季度，這種影響肯定更加顯著。正如您在問題中指出的那樣，我們在新聞稿中指出了一些事情，只是為了回顧它們。第一個是我在開場白中也提到的。匯率對 EBITDA 的年比負面影響略高於 300 萬美元。全年為 9000 萬美元，季度為 300 萬美元，僅此而已。

And two, is that as we called out in the release, there were some one-time benefits investor last year that didn't repeat this year. And so that's that's a little over $3 million as well. So between those two, you're at $6 million. And then if you look at kind of the top half of our P&L, our consolidated gross profit grew $20 million year-over-year in the quarter, which was which is quite strong. Advertising spend was higher by $9 million year-over-year, and that was mostly driven by Vista. And we've talked we talked about this sometimes in our advertising spend is normal also to see some fluctuations in intensity quarter-by-quarter, but that was accentuated in Q4 because last year investor, we were doing pretty extensive testing where we were going dark in certain channels and markets to test incrementality. And so that impacts the year-over-year comparison.

第二，正如我們在新聞稿中指出的那樣，去年有一些一次性福利投資者今年沒有再出現。所以這也略高於 300 萬美元。因此，這兩者之間的價格為 600 萬美元。如果你看我們損益表的上半部分，我們這個季度的綜合毛利年增了 2000 萬美元，這是相當強勁的。廣告支出比去年同期增加 900 萬美元，這主要是由 Vista 推動的。我們已經談到過，有時在我們的廣告支出中也談到過這一點，每個季度的強度波動也是正常的，但這種情況在第四季度更加突出，因為去年投資者，我們在我們想要去的地方進行了相當廣泛的測試在某些渠道和市場進行黑暗測試以測試增量。這會影響同比比較。

And is that one of the reasons why advertising spend in absolute dollars year-over-year is up as much as it is. We also had down a Creative Suite and Vista that generates assets that we use for well more than a year. But when we when we do that, we expense all that upfront, that was about $1.4 million or so reported EBITDA grew $5 million. But if you add up all those things, that's another about $16 million of year-over-year impact if you compare back to Q4 last year. I think last year, I would say our advertising spend was lower than the normal run rate given the testing that we were doing. But in any case, I think it's very fair to say that the run rate EBITDA growth in Q4 was higher than the headline number that we reported.

這就是廣告支出絕對值較去年同期大幅成長的原因之一。我們還擁有 Creative Suite 和 Vista，它們產生的資產我們使用了一年多。但當我們這樣做時，我們會預先支出所有費用，據報告，大約 140 萬美元左右的 EBITDA 增加了 500 萬美元。但如果將所有這些因素加起來，與去年第四季相比，又會產生約 1,600 萬美元的年比影響。我認為去年，考慮到我們正在進行的測試，我會說我們的廣告支出低於正常運行率。但無論如何，我認為可以公平地說，第四季度的 EBITDA 成長率高於我們報告的整體數據。

Great. Thank you, Sean.

偉大的。謝謝你，肖恩。

The next question, I'm going to ask Robert to answer. Robert, can you talk a little bit more about the recent reseller challenges in Print Group? What gives us confidence that these are broad-based market challenges and not idiosyncratic to our businesses. That is somebody is eating our lunch.

下一個問題，我將請羅伯特回答。羅伯特，您能多談談 Print Group 最近面臨的經銷商挑戰嗎？是什麼讓我們相信這些都是廣泛的市場挑戰，而不是我們業務所特有的挑戰。那是有人正在吃我們的午餐。

Yes. So to your specific question, we do not see any reseller competitor, quote-unquote, eating our lunch side. First of all, we do value our reseller customers, and we work hard to make them very competitive by serving them. And but in the end, it is the end customer, the ultimate consumer of products who chooses whatever channel is most convenient for them and most competitive. And this shift that we are speaking about is part of a long term on disintermediation and a shift towards direct to e-com direct to customer e-commerce models continue to grow.

是的。因此，對於您的特定問題，我們沒有看到任何經銷商競爭對手，引用不引用，吃我們的午餐。首先，我們確實重視我們的經銷商客戶，並且我們努力透過為他們提供服務來使他們變得非常有競爭力。但最終，最終客戶、產品的最終消費者選擇了對他們來說最方便、最具競爭力的管道。我們所說的這種轉變是長期脫媒的一部分，並且向直接電子商務的轉變，直接面向客戶的電子商務模式繼續成長。

We've described this retailer disintermediation in our Upload and Print space for many years on even as we've continued to grow our revenues in Upload and Print very nicely. We spoke about it again because it is continuing. But if you step back some of our Upload and Print businesses, including our largest ones, and today have transitioned to a point where they serve mostly 10 customers. And so they're not exposed to these negative sides of a trend. We do have a couple of businesses that historically and even currently primarily serve retailers. So their growth is more muted as a result.

多年來，我們一直在上傳和列印領域描述零售商脫媒的情況，儘管我們在上傳和列印領域的收入持續成長。我們再次談論它，因為它仍在繼續。但如果你退後一些我們的上傳和列印業務，包括我們最大的業務，今天已經轉變為主要為 10 名客戶提供服務。因此，他們不會受到趨勢的負面影響。我們確實有一些業務在歷史上甚至現在主要為零售商提供服務。因此，他們的成長更加緩慢。

Again, this isn't new going back to why we spoke about it again this year because of this year, our revenue growth in Upload and Print, which is driven by our traditional sort of our traditional products, it has been coming from volume alone or primarily, whereas in the past, there is a mix shift towards newer products and pricing improvements that we drove this underlying thought retailer trend shows through our results in that environment and And now if we step back, we continue to think and believe that there's a long runway for growth in Upload and Print on most of our businesses and our largest businesses in the segment primarily serve end customers, not resellers.

再說一次，這並不是什麼新鮮事，回到我們今年再次談論它的原因，因為今年我們在上傳和列印方面的收入增長，這是由我們傳統的傳統產品推動的，它僅來自數量或主要是，而在過去，我們推動了這一潛在思想零售商趨勢的混合轉變，轉向更新產品和定價改進，這透過我們在那種環境中的結果顯示出來，現在如果我們退後一步，我們繼續思考並相信我們大多數業務的上傳和列印成長還有很長的路要走，我們在該領域最大的業務主要服務於最終客戶，而不是經銷商。

And now this shift is happening, I would say, more volume going direct to end customers benefit Cimpress overall. And I'm going to say repeating we do have an important business with our resellers and we certainly are continuing to fortify our value proposition for them via things like new product introductions, high quantity choices, which are right for their customers, faster delivery, speed and other things, again, once again as we do for all of our customers, whoever they are.

我想說，現在這種轉變正在發生，更多的直接面向最終客戶的銷售使 Cimpress 整體受益。我要再說一遍，我們確實與我們的經銷商有重要的業務，我們當然會繼續透過新產品推出、適合他們的客戶的高數量選擇、更快的交付等方式繼續強化我們對他們的價值主張，速度和其他事情，再一次，再一次，就像我們為所有客戶所做的那樣，無論他們是誰。

Great. Thank you, Robert. Robert, I'm going to stick with you for the next question, which is about our CapEx spend. So what makes now the plan to accelerate that the capital expenditures?

偉大的。謝謝你，羅伯特。羅伯特，我將繼續回答你的下一個問題，這是關於我們的資本支出的。那麼，是什麼使得現在計劃加速資本支出？

We brought that up, didn't singled out last night because in summary, for the past two fiscal years and for the coming fiscal 25, we've been really focusing on operational execution. And this capital expenditure will really fortify the manufacturing and supply chain advantages, which are fundamental to that operational capability we have in a core part of operational execution.

我們昨晚提出了這一點，但沒有單獨指出，因為總而言之，在過去的兩個財年和即將到來的 25 財年，我們一直非常關注營運執行。這種資本支出將真正強化製造和供應鏈優勢，這是我們在營運執行核心部分擁有的營運能力的基礎。

Now again, again, I give you some context to those you certainly should read for more detail about how what I'm about to say in my annual letter, which we published last night. But today, in summary, we are stronger financially and importantly, operationally than we've been on in many years because of the work we did to two our security go, the significant investment we did over those past years and that has given us a solid foundation on which we are moving forward in building forward. And that solid foundation certainly is across many different aspects of our competitive advantage in our customer value proposition. I wrote about those in our letter last night.

現在，我再次向您提供一些背景信息，您當然應該閱讀這些內容，以了解更多有關我在昨晚發表的年度信中要說的話的細節。但總而言之，今天我們在財務上和重要的是在營運上都比多年來更強大，因為我們在兩個安全方面所做的工作，我們在過去幾年中所做的重大投資，這給了我們一個奠定了我們不斷前進的堅實基礎。這個堅實的基礎當然涵蓋了我們在客戶價值主張中的競爭優勢的許多不同方面。我昨晚在信中寫到了這些。

From a CapEx perspective, specifically, most of this is going into production, operations and it directly drives what we are really the best in the world out, which is the mass customization of print and print related products. We think the financial returns make a lot of sense and some of these investments are really no-brainers as they're going to drive much greater production efficiency with relatively quick payback given our high volumes. Other investments are for new product introductions that will allow us to expand how we serve our customers and attract new customers. Others provide a improvement in quality or quality attributes that we can offer customers and many of them will do multiple of some of the things I just mentioned will help the help efficiency they'll help on [MPI] and they'll help with quality attributes.

具體來說，從資本支出的角度來看，其中大部分都進入了生產和運營，它直接推動了我們真正成為世界上最好的產品，即印刷和印刷相關產品的大規模客製化。我們認為財務回報很有意義，其中一些投資確實是理所當然的，因為考慮到我們的產量很高，它們將提高生產效率，並獲得相對快速的回報。其他投資用於新產品的推出，這將使我們能夠擴大服務客戶的方式並吸引新客戶。其他人提供了我們可以為客戶提供的品質或品質屬性的改進，他們中的許多人將做我剛才提到的一些事情中的多項，這將有助於他們在[MPI] 上提供幫助，並且他們將在品質屬性方面提供幫助。

So finally, I'd say we have been and I spoke we go again, I spoke about this in my letter, but we are in a period that's quite exciting in terms of the equipment market where there's been a lot of competition, a lot of innovation, some of that innovation co-developed with us and our suppliers and across the supply chain for equipment, we see new equipment, which is very, very productive and very attractive.

所以最後，我想說我們已經去過了，我說過我們會再去一次，我在信中談到了這一點，但就設備市場而言，我們正處於一個非常令人興奮的時期，那裡有很多競爭，很多在創新方面，其中一些創新是與我們和我們的供應商共同開發的，在整個設備供應鏈中，我們看到了新設備，它們非常非常有效率且非常有吸引力。

And finally, let's just say, as we've communicated, you are a where we increased CapEx or we increase any other aspect of our cash flow consumption. It is within the guardrails of deleveraging, de-leveraging policy statements, which we said before, which we reiterated last night in our documents.

最後，正如我們所傳達的，您是我們增加資本支出或增加現金流消耗的任何其他方面的地方。它處於去槓桿、去槓桿政策聲明的範圍內，我們之前說過，我們昨晚在文件中重申了這一點。

Great. Thank you so much, Robert. All right. I'm going to shift gears you're going to talk about. I'm going to talk about the debt side of things. I'm going to pass the next couple of questions over to Sean. Sean, any new thinking about refinancing our 2026 bonds.

偉大的。非常感謝你，羅伯特。好的。我要改變你要談的話題。我要談談債務方面的事情。我將把接下來的幾個問題轉交給肖恩。Sean，關於 2026 年債券再融資的任何新想法。

The short answer is that nothing there's nothing new there from what I said on last quarter's call. We have similar questions from you we haven't made any decisions on exactly where or how we'll refinance the bonds. But of course, it's something that we are really thinking about. And we still have a little under two years to maturity. And so yes, we can be patient, but we're kind of getting into that window now where we'll be ready to act on. And and we'll be here so we'll be ready when it when it makes sense to do so. And we're in regular contact with our rating agencies so that they understand the financial progress that we've made and we'll continue to do that.

簡而言之，我在上個季度的電話會議上所說的內容並沒有什麼新內容。我們也收到了您提出的類似問題，但我們尚未就具體在何處或如何為債券進行再融資做出任何決定。但當然，這是我們真正正在考慮的事情。我們還有不到兩年的時間才能成熟。所以，是的，我們可以保持耐心，但我們現在已經進入了準備採取行動的窗口期。我們會在這裡，以便在有意義的時候做好準備。我們與我們的評級機構保持定期聯繫，以便他們了解我們所取得的財務進展，我們將繼續這樣做。

That's something we regularly do. And then as I said last quarter as well, when we got this question down here, we do like having both secured and unsecured debt in our capital structure. We think that diversification of our capital base is a good thing for a number of reasons to keep some secured capacity gives us some optionality over time as well as our base of profitability growth. So no change in thinking there and but we'll be ready to act when would it make sense to do so. And I think that's probably likely to be to be in this fiscal year.

這是我們經常做的事情。正如我上個季度所說，當我們在這裡提出這個問題時，我們確實希望在我們的資本結構中同時擁有有擔保和無擔保債務。我們認為，我們的資本基礎多元化是一件好事，出於多種原因，維持一些固定產能可以為我們提供一些選擇權，並為我們的獲利成長奠定基礎。因此，我們的想法沒有改變，但我們將準備好在有意義的時候採取行動。我認為這很可能發生在本財年。

Great. Thanks. Okay. So question here, what are the plans for the small EUR46 million [TLB tranche]. Just as an aside for folks who are listening, if you remember our debt during the quarter, we did we price our term loan B and not actually involved in the balance between USD and Euro tranches of that. So well, the question is, will it be repaid or will we hold it in until maturity?

偉大的。謝謝。好的。那麼這裡的問題是，4600 萬歐元的小額 [TLB 部分] 有什麼計劃。順便說一句，如果您還記得本季我們的債務，我們確實為定期貸款 B 定價，但實際上並未參與美元和歐元部分之間的平衡。那麼問題來了，是償還還是持有到到期呢？

Sure. Yes, the and it made sense to them to do this in our repricing, we were able to get more benefit by shipped around the proportion of euro and USD in the term loan. The term loan B, but we could go we go we still hadn't have a plan to hold that until maturity, unless we do something else with the term loan overall unit economics change but for now plan is to hold it.

當然。是的，他們在我們的重新定價中這樣做是有意義的，我們能夠透過在定期貸款中歐元和美元的比例進行運輸來獲得更多利益。定期貸款 B，但我們可以繼續，我們仍然沒有計劃將其持有至到期，除非我們對定期貸款整體單位經濟變化採取其他措施，但目前計劃是持有它。

Okay. Next question for I think Sean and then, Robert, if you want to add anything out there, please feel free and we'll start out, Sean, on this one for the 50% of organic investments in Vista that are more subjective. Also, this person has read our annual letter folks. If you haven't read it yet. This is something that's out of our annual letters, often 50% of organic investment services that are more subjective. How do we increase the likelihood that these are in fact as attractive as we think, but differently a few years ago, prior to the management changes at Vista, we were making investments that at the time we thought were great. But in hindsight were value destroying. What guardrails do we have in place today to avoid recommitting the sins of the past.

好的。下一個問題是肖恩，羅伯特，如果你想添加任何內容，請隨意，肖恩，我們將從這個問題開始，針對 Vista 中 50% 的有機投資，這些投資更加主觀。此外，此人還閱讀了我們的年度信件。如果您還沒有讀過。這是我們的年度信件中的內容，通常 50% 的有機投資服務更加主觀。我們如何增加這些實際上像我們想像的那樣有吸引力的可能性，但與幾年前不同的是，在 Vista 管理層變動之前，我們正在進行當時我們認為很棒的投資。但事後看來，這些都是價值破壞。今天我們有哪些防護措施可以避免重蹈過去的覆轍。

Yeah. Great question. The M&A, trying to provide a little context, especially for those who may not have read Robert's annual letter yet. And I guess I recommend you read it when you have a moment down, but as you see there are every year we give an estimate of our growth investments and also our steady-state free cash flow. And in our growth investments that we have most of that is investor. That's about three-quarters of our growth investment is in Vista. And what we refer to in the letter is that there's about half of that investment in Vista that we believe is easy to estimate because it's very discreet. So I'll just give you two examples. Things like CapEx for new products or growth capacity or there's portions of our advertising spend that are very clear and discrete.

是的。很好的問題。併購，試圖提供一些背景信息，特別是對於那些可能還沒有讀過羅伯特年度信的人。我想我建議您在心情低落時閱讀它，但正如您所看到的，我們每年都會對我們的成長投資以及穩態自由現金流進行估計。在我們的成長投資中，我們大部分都是投資者。我們大約四分之三的成長投資都投入了 Vista 上。我們在信中提到的是，Vista 的投資中有大約一半是我們認為很容易估計的，因為它非常謹慎。所以我只舉兩個例子給你聽。像新產品的資本支出或成長能力，或者我們廣告支出的一部分是非常清晰和離散的。

And so those are easy to estimate. And then the other half of the Vista growth investments, there's just more subjectivity your judgment and we refer to that in the letter because they're investments, like, for example, in product development where it's less discrete, you might have a product team that's working on a mix of maintenance topics and growth topics. And so and so the subjectivity that's referenced in the letter is with respect to the profit precision by which we estimate, whether those investments or those costs are needed for steady-state or not. And so we make estimates of that and we take that up given the range of $30 million that we use between our low and high end of the range of estimated investments. We think that's more than sufficient to capture the range of judgment involved.

所以這些很容易估計。然後，Vista 成長投資的另一半，您的判斷更加主觀，我們在信中提到這一點，因為它們是投資，例如，在不太離散的產品開發中，您可能擁有一個產品團隊它正在研究維護主題和成長主題的混合。信中提到的主觀性與我們估計的利潤精確度有關，無論這些投資或成本是否需要穩定狀態。因此，我們對此進行了估計，並考慮到我們在估計投資範圍的低端和高端之間使用的 3000 萬美元的範圍，我們將其提高。我們認為這足以捕捉所涉及的判斷範圍。

So that's just some context. But I think the substance of the question is really around some of the past investments that we've made and how do we make sure that in particularly in Vista that we can improve the probability of good returns on those investments. So and I highlight a few things in terms of what's changed since prior to 2019 when we made some significant changes in the Vista business. I think the first is that we have much better data and analytics that gives us just more visibility. And it has allowed us to be more data-driven in our decision-making. And that's something we've talked about for the last two years in our investor days and other forms.

這只是一些背景。但我認為問題的實質實際上是圍繞我們過去所做的一些投資以及我們如何確保我們能夠提高這些投資獲得良好回報的可能性，特別是在 Vista 中。因此，我強調了自 2019 年以來我們在 Vista 業務中做出一些重大改變以來發生的一些變化。我認為首先是我們擁有更好的數據和分析，這為我們帶來了更多的可見度。它使我們的決策更加以數據為依據。這是我們過去兩年在投資者日和其他形式中討論的話題。

The next one is that in many areas, we've also changed the way that we're organized. There's less coordination costs. I think accountabilities clear themes are closer to customer problems we're trying to solve. And then the results that are being derived from the investments that we're making are the teams that are performing. These things are clear as well. And that's sounds like a small thing how we're organized, but it actually has a really big impact. And I think in a way that's sort of analogous to some of the changes that we made back in 2019 in Upload and Print in terms of decentralizing further improving accountability, improving clarity of results, and we've seen the benefit of that there as well.

下一個是，在許多領域，我們也改變了我們的組織方式。協調成本更少。我認為責任明確的主題更接近我們試圖解決的客戶問題。然後，從我們所做的投資中得出的結果就是正在執行的團隊。這些事情也是很清楚的。這聽起來對我們的組織方式來說是一件小事，但它實際上產生了很大的影響。我認為，這在某種程度上類似於我們在 2019 年在上傳和列印方面所做的一些改變，即進一步分散責任、提高結果的清晰度，我們也看到了這樣做的好處。

And I think this is analogous to that in many ways, and we're doing a lot more experimentation and the tools the data and all the practices that we're using there and they're just far better understood. There are far more embedded throughout the organization and that what that means is that the unit of investment that's required to get customer feedback is just much smaller and then we can iterate from there. So that's also quite a big change.

我認為這在很多方面都與此類似，我們正在做更多的實驗、工具、數據以及我們在那裡使用的所有實踐，並且對它們的理解要好得多。整個組織中嵌入的內容要多得多，這意味著獲得客戶回饋所需的投資單位要小得多，然後我們可以從那裡進行迭代。所以這也是一個很大的改變。

And then the migration of technology that we went through for for multiple years that provides for more flexibility. And it's actually enabled us to do a lot of things that I just outlined and the pace of the incremental improvements that we're making as much higher. We see that in the impact of that in our new customer cohorts I referred to in the opening remarks and our overall performance as well. So I think it's just you know it before. It was simply was that a lot more costly, a lot more engineering intensive to advance a unit of improvement and get feedback. And that's improved greatly because of all these things.

然後，我們多年來經歷的技術遷移提供了更大的靈活性。實際上，它使我們能夠做我剛才概述的許多事情，並且我們正在進行的漸進式改進的步伐也更高。我們看到了我在開場白中提到的新客戶群的影響以及我們的整體表現。所以我認為這只是你之前知道的。簡單地說，推進一個改進單元並獲得回饋需要花費更多的成本、更多的工程密集度。由於所有這些事情，情況得到了很大改善。

In terms of guardrails, I think there's a lot there's a number of regular mechanisms that we have in place to review progress. And we've made pretty significant changes to the way that we do our planning and also how that maps back to our resource allocation across our product team. So I think that's that's important to note that hopefully was evident last year as well. We're not afraid to stop doing things if we don't see sufficient progress and that's it big shifts like we did last year in terms of cost reduction are quite painful. And so we want to avoid those that are disruptive to progress and sell them but yes, after we took out a lot of cost last year and narrow the focus of our investments, the bar there is going to really remain very high for sure.

就護欄而言，我認為我們有很多常規機制來審查進展。我們對我們的規劃方式以及如何映射到我們整個產品團隊的資源分配進行了相當重大的變更。所以我認為這點很重要，希望去年也能體現出來。如果我們看不到足夠的進展，我們並不害怕停止做事，就像我們去年在降低成本方面所做的重大轉變是相當痛苦的。因此，我們希望避免那些對進展有破壞性的項目並將其出售，但是，是的，在我們去年投入了大量成本並縮小了投資重點之後，那裡的門檻肯定會仍然很高。

And then I think lastly, we've always tried to continue to learn and improve. And I think Robert's been very candid about where we've learned and improved when he does his recap in the annual letter, which we've just published last night as well, we'll still make mistakes and get things wrong. But I think with the nature of the investments that we're making now, I would say, relative to prior to 2019, it's a bit near end versus the ones that you refer to in the question in terms of the ones that we thought were great and didn't fully play out. So hopefully that provides some context. Robert, I'm not sure if there's anything you want to add.

最後我想，我們一直在努力繼續學習和改進。我認為羅伯特在年度信中回顧時非常坦率地談到了我們所學到的和改進的地方，我們昨晚也剛剛發布了這封信，但我們仍然會犯錯誤，把事情搞錯。但我認為，考慮到我們現在正在進行的投資的性質，相對於 2019 年之前，與您在問題中提到的我們認為的投資相比，現在的投資有點接近尾聲了。發揮出來。希望這能提供一些背景資訊。羅伯特，我不確定你是否還有什麼要補充的。

No, I agree with everything you said, but I wouldn't add anything.

不，我同意你所說的一切，但我不會添加任何內容。

Well, we are actually through all the live questions at this point, and I'm going to hand the call back over to Robert to wrap things up.

好吧，我們實際上已經解決了所有的即時問題，我將把電話轉回給羅伯特來結束一切。

Okay. Thanks, Meredith. And thank you all as investors for joining the call and continuing to entrust your capital with us. As I said in my annual letter Cimpress is financially strong and that reflects the significant investment in work that we've completed over the past six years has made us stronger operationally and technologically and most importantly, stronger in terms of the value we deliver to our customers. And that strength really does bode well for our future and our ability to continue to drive increased customer value and in doing so grow our intrinsic value per share. We'll certainly give more details on our strategic progress and what we're doing as a business in our upcoming virtual Investor Day, which will be held on September 10, of this year and we hope you will join us for that as well. Thank you all.

好的。謝謝，梅雷迪思。感謝各位投資者加入此次電話會議並繼續將資金委託給我們。正如我在年度信件中所說，Cimpress 的財務實力雄厚，這反映出我們在過去六年中完成的工作的重大投資使我們在運營和技術上變得更加強大，最重要的是，在我們為客戶提供的價值方面變得更加強大。這種優勢確實預示著我們的未來以及我們繼續提高客戶價值並以此提高每股內在價值的能力。我們肯定會在即將於今年 9 月 10 日舉行的虛擬投資者日上提供有關我們的戰略進展以及我們作為一家企業所做的事情的更多詳細信息，我們希望您也能加入我們。謝謝大家。

Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes today's call. Thank you all for joining. You may now disconnect.

女士們、先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝大家的加入。您現在可以斷開連線。