Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce (CM) 2026 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to the CIBC first-quarter quarterly results conference call. Please be advised that this call is being recorded. I would now like to turn the meeting over to Geoff Weiss, Senior Vice President, Investor Relations. Please go ahead, Geoff.

早安，歡迎參加加拿大帝國商業銀行（CIBC）第一季業績電話會議。請注意，本次通話正在錄音。現在我將會議交給投資者關係高級副總裁傑夫·韋斯。請繼續，傑夫。

Thank you, and good morning. We will begin this morning's call with opening remarks from Harry Culham, our President and Chief Executive Officer; followed by Rob Sedran, our Chief Financial Officer; and Frank Guse, our Chief Risk Officer. Also on the call today are a number of our group heads including Christian Exshaw, Capital Markets, Kevin Lee, US region, Hratch Panossian, Personal and Banking, Canada and Susan Rimmer, Commercial Banking and Wealth Management, Canada. They're all available to take questions following the prepared remarks.

謝謝，早安。今天早上的電話會議將首先由我們的總裁兼首席執行官哈里·卡勒姆致開幕詞；隨後是我們的首席財務官羅布·塞德蘭；以及我們的首席風險官弗蘭克·古斯。今天參加電話會議的還有我們幾位集團負責人，包括資本市場負責人 Christian Exshaw、美國地區負責人 Kevin Lee、加拿大個人及銀行業務負責人 Hratch Panossian 以及加拿大商業銀行及財富管理負責人 Susan Rimmer。在發表完準備好的演講後，他們都將接受提問。

As noted on slide 1 of our investor presentation our comments may contain forward-looking statements, which involve assumptions and having inherent risks and uncertainties. Actual results may differ materially. I would also remind listeners that the bank uses non-GAAP financial measures to arrive at adjusted results. Management measures performance on reported and adjusted basis and considers both to be useful in assessing underlying business performance. With that, I will now turn the call over to Harry.

正如我們在投資者簡報第 1 頁中所述，我們的評論可能包含前瞻性陳述，這些陳述涉及假設，並存在固有的風險和不確定性。實際結果可能與實際情況有重大差異。我還要提醒聽眾，該銀行使用非GAAP財務指標來得出調整後的績效。管理層根據報告數據和調整數據來衡量業績，並認為兩者對於評估潛在的業務業績都很有用。接下來，我將把電話交給哈利。

Thank you, Geoff, and good morning, everyone. We are pleased to start the fiscal year on strong footing with exceptional first quarter results. Our performance was driven by our team's collective focus on accelerating our proven client-focused strategy and unlocking further value through disciplined execution.

謝謝你，傑夫，大家早安。我們很高興以優異的第一季業績為新財年開了個好頭。我們的業績得益於團隊齊心協力加速推進我們行之有效的以客戶為中心的策略，並透過嚴謹的執行釋放更多價值。

Before I comment on our quarter one results, I want to offer some perspective on how our clients are managing through today's dynamic environment. We are staying close to them as they navigate a fluid operating backdrop with heightened focus on trade developments and geopolitical tensions.

在評論我們第一季業績之前，我想先談談我們的客戶是如何應對當今瞬息萬變的環境的。在貿易發展和地緣政治緊張局勢日益加劇的背景下，我們將密切關注他們的動態。

For my conversations with CEOs and industry leaders over the past few months, clients are generally managing near-term uncertainty well and remain optimistic about the longer-term. Our roots as the Bank of Commerce are very relevant today. Our bank was formed in 1867 to help capital flow to businesses that we're building our nation.

在過去幾個月與執行長和行業領袖的交流中，我發現客戶們普遍能夠很好地應對短期的不確定性，並且對長期前景保持樂觀。我們作為商業銀行的根基在今天仍然非常重要。我們的銀行成立於 1867 年，旨在幫助資本流向我們正在建立國家的各行各業。

Today, we stand ready to help our clients advance their agendas, including key infrastructure initiatives. We have a long history of being a trusted partner to the businesses and families we serve, and we remain focused on helping them grow in 2026 and beyond.

今天，我們隨時準備好幫助客戶推進他們的計劃，包括關鍵的基礎設施項目。我們一直以來都是我們所服務的企業和家庭值得信賴的合作夥伴，我們將繼續致力於幫助他們在 2026 年及以後成長。

Now turning to our quarter one results. On a reported basis, earnings per share of $3.21 were up 47% from the prior year and included income tax recoveries, which we have treated as an item of note. The remainder of my comments will focus on adjusted results. We reported adjusted earnings per share of $2.76, which were up 25% from the prior year, driven by a robust top line.

現在來看我們第一季的業績。按報告數據，每股收益為 3.21 美元，比上年增長 47%，其中包括所得稅回收，我們已將其視為一個值得注意的項目。接下來我的評論將主要集中在調整後的結果。我們公佈的調整後每股收益為 2.76 美元，比上年增長 25%，這主要得益於強勁的營收成長。

Revenues of $8.4 billion were up 15% from the prior year. Importantly, our revenue growth is well diversified with record revenues across each of business units. Expenses were up 12% from the prior year. We delivered operating leverage of 3.6%, marking the tenth consecutive quarter in which we delivered positive operating leverage. Our critically remains resilient.

營收達 84 億美元，較上年成長 15%。重要的是，我們的收入成長實現了多元化，各個業務部門的收入均創歷史新高。支出比上年增長了12%。我們實現了 3.6% 的營運槓桿，這是我們連續第十個季度實現正經營槓桿。我們的關鍵部門仍然保持韌性。

Provisions for credit losses this quarter were largely aligned with our expectations. We continue to proactively stress test our portfolio for a wide range of scenarios to ensure our bank can navigate all market conditions. We are well prepared should we see a downturn in the environment while also being well positioned to grow with our clients.

本季信貸損失準備金基本上符合我們的預期。我們持續積極地對投資組合進行各種情境的壓力測試，以確保我們的銀行能夠應對所有市場狀況。我們已做好充分準備，以因應可能出現的市場環境下滑，同時也能與客戶共同成長。

Our return on equity was 17.4% this quarter on the foundation of a robust 13.4% CET1 ratio. We returned roughly 78% of earnings to shareholders in the first quarter in the form of dividends and 8 million common share buybacks. These results reflect our unwavering commitment to delivering sustainable value for our shareholders and maintaining a solid foundation for future growth.

本季度，我們的股本回報率為 17.4%，這得益於穩健的 13.4% 的 CET1 比率。第一季度，我們以股息和 800 萬股普通股回購的形式，將約 78% 的收益返還給了股東。這些業績反映了我們堅定不移地致力於為股東創造永續價值，並為未來的成長奠定堅實基礎。

Let me provide some highlights across each of our four strategic priorities that underscore the momentum we've achieved across our bank. Our first strategic priority is to grow our mass affluent and private wealth franchise. Across our managed mass affluent offering, we are connecting clients with dedicated advisers to help them achieve their goals. However, simple or complex. It's clear that this approach is working.

讓我重點介紹我們四大策略重點，這些重點突顯了我們全行的進展。我們的首要策略重點是發展我們的大眾富裕階層和私人財富客戶群。在我們面向大眾富裕人群的管理服務中，我們將客戶與專屬顧問聯繫起來，以幫助他們實現目標。然而，無論是簡單的還是複雜的。很明顯，這種方法是有效的。

Managed clients in Personal Banking are generating roughly 4 times the revenue of an unmanaged client with Net Promoter Scores that continue to hit all-time highs. Within the past year, qualified clients in our managed offering grew by 6%, helping deliver money and balance growth of 12%. And from here, we are prioritizing client acquisition and growth with key client segments. We are also unlocking efficiencies to scale adviser capacity with mass affluent clients per adviser up 7% from the prior year.

個人銀行業務中的託管客戶創造的收入大約是非託管客戶的 4 倍，淨推薦值 (NPS) 也持續創下歷史新高。在過去一年中，我們管理的合格客戶成長了 6%，幫助實現了 12% 的資金和資產成長。接下來，我們將優先考慮重點客戶群的獲取和成長。我們也正在提高效率，擴大顧問服務能力，使每位顧問服務的富裕客戶數量比前一年增長 7%。

Our second strategic priority is to expand our digital-first personal banking capabilities. 48% of our retail products sold during the first quarter were through digital channels. That's up 5% from the prior year. As we implement continued enhancements through digital, we're putting more power in the hands of clients to deepen their relationships with our bank.

我們的第二個策略重點是拓展以數位化為先的個人銀行服務能力。第一季度，我們48%的零售產品是透過數位化的管道售出。比上年增長了5%。隨著我們不斷推進數位化改進，我們將更多權力交到客戶手中，以加深他們與我們銀行的關係。

We're also equipping our advisers with digital tools to create efficiencies for them, enabling them to spend more time with clients. Our third strategic priority is to deliver connectivity and differentiation to our clients. We built a highly connected culture that drives steady referral business across the bank, supported by an innovative suite of products designed to deepen relationships with our client base.

我們也正在為顧問配備數位化工具，以提高他們的工作效率，使他們能夠花更多的時間陪伴客戶。我們的第三個策略重點是為客戶提供連結性和差異化服務。我們建立了一種高度互聯的企業文化，這種文化推動了銀行內部穩定的轉介業務，並輔以一系列旨在加深與客戶群關係的創新產品。

Record revenues in Canadian Commercial Banking this quarter were fueled by single-digit volume growth on both sides by high single-digit volume growth on both sides of the balance sheet, robust margin expansion and strong connectivity across our teams. That collaborative momentum is also fostering greater cross-business engagement.

本季加拿大商業銀行業務收入創歷史新高，這得益於資產負債表兩端個位數的交易量增長、強勁的利潤率擴張以及團隊間的緊密聯繫。這種合作勢頭也促進了跨業務領域的更廣泛合作。

This quarter, our Capital Markets platform captured elevated volume from client-driven demand, complemented by healthy referral activity from our Commercial and Wealth businesses. Earlier this month, we confirmed our role as a partner of the Defense Security and Resilience Bank Development Corp Group. As new opportunities emerge in Canada's key sectors, we are ready to work alongside our clients and industry leaders.

本季度，在客戶需求的推動下，我們的資本市場平台交易量大幅成長，同時，我們的商業和財富管理業務也帶來了良好的轉介活動。本月初，我們確認了我們作為國防安全與韌性銀行發展公司集團合作夥伴的角色。隨著加拿大關鍵產業湧現出新的機遇，我們已準備好與我們的客戶和產業領導者攜手合作。

Our fourth strategic priority is to enable, simplify and protect our bank by investing in technology, data and AI to drive operational excellence and further modernize our bank. We frame AI value through three pillars: revenue growth through better client experiences, operational efficiency and risk mitigation.

我們的第四項策略重點是透過投資技術、數據和人工智慧來推動卓越營運並進一步實現銀行現代化，從而賦能、簡化和保護我們的銀行。我們從三個支柱來定義人工智慧的價值：透過更好的客戶體驗實現收入成長、提高營運效率和降低風險。

These pillars guide where we invest and how we prioritize use cases. From a revenue perspective, these capabilities are enabling us to engage clients more intelligently, bringing the right insight adviser offer at the right moment. We're also using AI to accelerate and improve the consistency of credit decisions, supporting growth while maintaining discipline.

這些支柱指導著我們的投資方向以及我們對應用案例的優先順序。從收入角度來看，這些能力使我們能夠更聰明地與客戶互動，在適當的時機提供合適的見解顧問服務。我們也利用人工智慧來加快信貸決策的速度並提高其一致性，從而在保持紀律的同時支持成長。

On efficiency, we're simplifying our bank by reducing manual and repetitive work, so our teams can focus on higher-value activities. This includes automation, faster issue resolution and meaningful productivity improvements for our technology teams. And from a risk perspective, AI is helping protect our bank by strengthening fraud prevention, credit monitoring and AML functions.

在效率方面，我們正在透過減少人工和重複性工作來簡化我們的銀行，以便我們的團隊能夠專注於更高價值的活動。這包括自動化、更快的故障解決速度以及為我們的技術團隊帶來實際有效的生產力提升。從風險角度來看，人工智慧透過加強詐欺預防、信用監控和反洗錢功能，幫助保護我們的銀行。

We've deployed these capabilities with governance built in from the start, ensuring transparency, control and regulatory alignment. Culturally, we see AI as an opportunity to rethink how work gets done, not just to automate existing processes. Our teams are encouraged to challenge legacy workflows, supported by training and clear policies for responsible AIUs.

我們從一開始就將治理機制融入這些功能的部署中，以確保透明度、控制力和監管一致性。從文化角度來看，我們認為人工智慧是一個重新思考工作方式的機會，而不僅僅是自動化現有流程。我們鼓勵團隊挑戰傳統的工作流程，並透過培訓和明確的政策來支持負責任的人工智慧使用者。

Having every CIBC team member doing this will propel us forward not just today, but also with future upcoming technologies. Rather than leading with a single enterprise value number, we focus on what is observable and repeatable such as scaled adoption, operational outcomes and improved risk performance. Over time, these benefits flow through to revenue, efficiency and returns in a disciplined and sustainable way.

如果CIBC團隊的每一位成員都這樣做，不僅能推動我們今天向前發展，還能推動我們在未來新興技術的發展中不斷前進。我們不以單一的企業價值數字為導向，而是專注於可觀察和可重複的因素，例如規模化採用、營運成果和風險績效的提高。隨著時間的推移，這些好處會以有條不紊且可持續的方式轉化為收入、效率和回報。

In closing, the positive momentum across our bank continues to build. We're focused on accelerating our execution in 2026 to drive robust, well-diversified growth by proactively preparing for uncertainty and staying close to our clients, we are well equipped to successfully navigate evolving market environments. And with that, I'll now turn it over to Rob for a deeper look at our financial results. Over to you, Rob.

總之，我們銀行的整體正向動能仍在持續增強。我們專注於在 2026 年加快執行計劃，透過積極應對不確定性並與客戶保持密切聯繫，推動強勁、多元化的成長，我們已做好充分準備，成功應對不斷變化的市場環境。接下來，我將把麥克風交給羅布，讓他更深入分析我們的財務表現。接下來就交給你了，羅布。

Thank you, Harry, and good morning, everyone. Let's start with three takeaways. First, the year is off to a strong start with another record earnings quarter and an ROE that was well above our current medium-term target. Second, the strong and broad-based revenue growth and solidly positive operating leverage reinforce our confidence in our strategy and demonstrate our focus on disciplined execution.

謝謝你，哈里，大家早安。讓我們先總結三點。首先，今年開局強勁，又一個季度獲利創下紀錄，淨資產收益率也遠高於我們目前的中期目標。其次，強勁且廣泛的收入成長和穩健的正向經營槓桿增強了我們對自身策略的信心，並表明了我們對嚴謹執行的重視。

And third, helped by strong reported earnings, our CET1 ratio edged higher even as we accelerated our capital return strategy by repurchasing 8 million shares during the quarter. Please turn to slide 8. For the first quarter of 2026, earnings per share were $3.21 and included income tax recoveries, which we have treated as an item of note. Absent that, our effective tax rate was in line with expectations.

第三，由於強勁的獲利報告，即使我們在本季透過回購 800 萬股加快了資本回報策略，我們的 CET1 比率仍然略有上升。請翻到第8張幻燈片。2026 年第一季度，每股收益為 3.21 美元，其中包括所得稅回收，我們已將其視為一項值得注意的項目。如果沒有那項因素，我們的實際稅率符合預期。

On an adjusted basis, EPS was $2.76, up 25% from a year ago. Adjusted ROE was 17.4%, up 210 basis points from the same quarter last year. Let's move on to a detailed review of our performance. I'm on slide 9. Adjusted net income of $2.7 billion increased 23% and pre-provision earnings were up a strong 19%. Revenues benefited from balance sheet growth, improving net interest margins and higher fee income.

經調整後，每股收益為 2.76 美元，比去年同期成長 25%。調整後的淨資產收益率為 17.4%，比去年同期成長 210 個基點。接下來，讓我們對我們的表現進行詳細回顧。我看到第9張投影片了。調整後的淨收入為 27 億美元，成長 23%；撥備前收益強勁成長 19%。資產負債表的成長、淨利差的改善和手續費收入的增加帶動了營收成長。

We continue to manage expenses prudently relative to revenues, delivering 360 basis points of operating leverage. Impaired losses were within our guidance range. Frank will discuss credit in his remarks. Please turn to slide 10. Excluding trading, net interest income was up 13%, with continued balance sheet growth and expanding margins.

我們繼續謹慎地控制支出與收入，實現了 360 個基點的營運槓桿。損失金額在我們預期的範圍內。弗蘭克將在演講中談到信貸問題。請翻到第10張投影片。剔除交易業務的影響，淨利息收入成長了 13%，資產負債表持續成長，利潤率不斷擴大。

All bank margin ex trading was up 17 basis points from the prior year and 6 basis points sequentially due to a combination of higher deposits, business mix and improved product margins. Those same factors drove Canadian P&C NIM of 300 basis points, which was up 10 basis points sequentially.

由於存款增加、業務組合改善和產品利潤率提高，除交易外的所有銀行利潤率較上年同期上升 17 個基點，環比上升 6 個基點。同樣的因素推動加拿大財產險和意外險淨利差達到 300 個基點，季增 10 個基點。

In the US segment, NIM of 401 basis points was up 17 points from the prior quarter due to continued strength in deposits, which was partially seasonally driven. After accounting for the seasonal drag on margin, we often see in Q2, we maintain our expectation of a stable to gradual positive bias on our net interest margins over time.

在美國市場，由於存款持續強勁成長（部分原因是季節性因素），淨利差為 401 個基點，比上一季成長了 17 個基點。考慮到第二季度經常出現的季節性因素對利潤率的影響，我們仍然預期淨息差會隨著時間的推移保持穩定或逐步向正增長。

slide 11 highlights fee revenue trends. Noninterest income of $4.1 billion was up 18% with growth across payments, institutional, trading and consumer fees. Market-related fees also increased 18%, helped by constructive markets with particularly strong growth in trading, underwriting and advisory and mutual fund fees. Transaction-related fees were up 10% driven mainly by higher credit and FX fees.

第 11 張投影片重點介紹了費用收入趨勢。非利息收入達 41 億美元，成長 18%，支付、機構、交易和消費者費用均成長。受市場行情良好推動，市場相關費用也成長了 18%，其中交易、承銷和諮詢以及共同基金費用的成長尤為強勁。交易相關費用上漲 10%，主要原因是信貸和外匯費用上漲。

Slide 12 highlights our expense performance. Expenses were up 12%, driven by increased business activity, revenue-linked costs and technology investments across our bank. These expenses were paced relative to the robust revenue growth, and so we once again delivered positive operating leverage.

第 12 張投影片重點介紹了我們的費用表現。支出增加了 12%，主要原因是業務活動增加、與收入相關的成本增加以及全行範圍內的技術投資。這些支出與強勁的收入成長保持同步，因此我們再次實現了積極的營運槓桿效應。

Slide 13 highlights the consistent strength of our balance sheet. Our CET1 ratio at the end of the quarter was 13.4%, up 5 basis points from the prior quarter. We delivered strong organic capital generation, helped by strong reported earnings, partially offset by an increase in risk-weighted assets and the accelerated share buybacks.

第 13 張投影片突顯了我們資產負債表的持續穩健性。本季末，我們的CET1比率為13.4%，比上一季上升了5個基點。在強勁的財報獲利的推動下，我們實現了強勁的內生資本成長，但風險加權資產的增加和加速的股票回購部分抵消了這一成長。

As a reminder, and as we disclosed last quarter, we will see a roughly 30 basis points benefit to our CET1 ratio in Q2 related to a reduction in operational risk weights. Our liquidity position is very strong with an average LCR of 133%.

再次提醒大家，正如我們上個季度所揭露的那樣，由於營運風險權重的降低，我們在第二季的 CET1 比率將獲得約 30 個基點的收益。我們的流動性狀況非常強勁，平均流動性覆蓋率 (LCR) 為 133%。

Starting on slide 14. With Canadian Personal and Business Banking, we highlight our strategic business unit results. Adjusted net income growth of 25% and pre-provision earnings growth of 19% were revenue-driven. Revenues were up 13%, helped by margin expansion, loan growth and higher fee-based revenue.

從第14張投影片開始。透過加拿大個人及商業銀行業務，我們將重點放在我們策略業務部門的績效。經調整後的淨利成長25%，撥備前收益成長19%，均由營收成長驅動。收入成長了 13%，這得益於利潤率的擴大、貸款的成長以及手續費收入的增加。

Net interest margin was up 34 basis points year-over-year and 9 basis points sequentially. We continue to see tangible results from our focus on deep and profitable client relationships, selective balance sheet deployment and disciplined pricing decisions. Expenses were up 7%, mainly due to higher spending on technology and other strategic initiatives and higher employee-related compensation.

淨利差較去年同期上升 34 個基點，較上季上升 9 個基點。我們持續看到，專注於建立深入且獲利的客戶關係、選擇性地部署資產負債表以及採取嚴謹的定價策略，都取得了切實的成果。支出增加了 7%，主要原因是技術和其他策略措施方面的支出增加以及員工相關薪酬增加。

On slide 15, we show Canadian Commercial Banking and Wealth Management, where net income and pre-provision pretax earnings were up 9% and 16% from a year ago. Revenues were up 13% from last year. Commercial Banking revenues were up 9%, driven by volume growth and margin expansion.

在第 15 張投影片中，我們展示了加拿大商業銀行和財富管理業務，其中淨收入和撥備前稅前收益分別比去年同期成長了 9% 和 16%。營收比去年增長了13%。受交易量成長和利潤率擴張的推動，商業銀行業務收入成長了 9%。

Commercial loan and deposit volumes were up 7% and 8%, respectively, from a year ago. Wealth Management revenue growth of 16% was driven by higher average fee-based assets and increased client activity driving higher commissions. AUA and AUM were up 14% and 15%, respectively, compared with Q1 of '25.

商業貸款和存款額分別比去年同期增加了7%和8%。財富管理收入成長 16%，主要得益於平均收費資產增加和客戶活動增加帶來的佣金成長。與 2025 年第一季相比，AUA 和 AUM 分別成長了 14% 和 15%。

Turning to US Commercial Banking and Wealth Management on slide 16. Net income was up 19% from the prior year, mainly due to lower loan loss provisions and pretax -- pre-provision pretax earnings that increased 7%. Revenues were up 6% from last year. Net interest income was up 10% from improved loan and deposit growth and wider deposit margins. Fee income growth was impacted by lower annual performance fees in our Asset Management business. Expenses were also up 6% due to higher employee compensation, including costs related to severance and strategic initiatives.

請參閱第 16 頁投影片，以了解美國商業銀行和財富管理。淨收入比上年增長 19%，主要原因是貸款損失準備金和稅前利潤（扣除準備金前的稅前利潤）下降了 7%。營收比去年成長了6%。由於貸款和存款成長改善以及存款利潤率擴大，淨利息收入增加了 10%。資產管理業務的年度業績費下降，影響了費用收入的成長。由於員工薪資增加，包括與遣散費和策略性措施相關的成本，支出也增加了 6%。

Turning to slide 17 and our Capital Markets segment. Net income was up 42% and revenues were up 28% year-over-year. Global Markets revenue saw growth across most products. Investment Banking benefited from higher underwriting and advisory activity and Corporate and Transaction Banking revenues were up due to volume growth and higher fees.

接下來請看第 17 張投影片，了解我們的資本市場部分。淨利潤年增 42%，營收年增 28%。全球市場大部分產品的收入均實現成長。投資銀行業務受惠於承銷和諮詢業務的成長，而企業和交易銀行業務的收入則因業務量成長和手續費增加而上升。

Slide 18 reflects the results of Corporate and Other, which was a net loss of $100 million compared with a net loss of $60 million in the prior year with both revenues and expenses influenced by some unusual items this quarter.

第 18 頁反映了公司及其他業務的業績，淨虧損 1 億美元，而上年同期淨虧損 6000 萬美元，本季度收入和支出均受到一些不尋常項目的影響。

In closing, we generated strong revenue growth, delivered positive operating leverage, returned significant amounts of capital to shareholders and strengthened our balance sheet. A strong start to the year. With that, I'll turn it over to Frank.

總之，我們實現了強勁的營收成長，帶來了正面的經營槓桿效應，向股東返還了大量資本，並增強了我們的資產負債表。今年開局強勁。接下來，我將把麥克風交給法蘭克。

Thank you, Rob, and good morning, everyone. Through the first quarter of 2026, our credit portfolio performance has remained aligned with our expectations given the fluid operating environment. Mid ongoing tariff-related headwinds and negotiations, we remain vigilant and proactive in managing our credit portfolios to address both expected and unexpected changes.

謝謝你，羅布，大家早安。截至 2026 年第一季度，鑑於瞬息萬變的經營環境，我們的信貸組合表現與預期保持一致。儘管關稅相關的阻力持續存在，談判也在進行中，但我們仍保持警惕並積極主動地管理我們的信貸組合，以應對預期和意外的變化。

Our increases in allowances over the past 12 months and show a strong coverage against the economic environment, and we maintain a high level of confidence in the overall quality and stability of our credit portfolio. Turning to slide 22. Our total provision for credit losses was $568 million in Q1, down from $605 million last quarter.

過去 12 個月，我們的撥備有所增加，這表明我們對經濟環境具有很強的覆蓋能力，我們對信貸組合的整體品質和穩定性保持高度信心。翻到第22張投影片。第一季度，我們的信貸損失撥備總額為 5.68 億美元，低於上一季的 6.05 億美元。

Our allowance coverage remains robust at 79 basis points. Our performing provision was $48 million this quarter, reflecting the impact of credit migration and the evolving economic environment. Our provision on impaired loans was $520 million, up $23 million quarter-over-quarter. Higher provisions in our Canadian and US Commercial Banking segments were partially offset by lower provisions in Capital Markets and Canadian Personal and Business Banking.

我們的撥備覆蓋率依然穩健，達到 79 個基點。本季我們的正常撥備為 4,800 萬美元，反映了信貸遷移和不斷變化的經濟環境的影響。我們的不良貸款撥備為 5.2 億美元，比上一季增加 2,300 萬美元。加拿大和美國商業銀行業務撥備增加，但資本市場和加拿大個人及商業銀行業務撥備減少，部分抵消了撥備增加的影響。

Turning to slide 23. In Q1, impaired provisions moved slightly higher with the impaired loss rate at 35 basis points. Impaired provisions in Canadian Personal and Business Banking and Capital Markets were down this quarter. Canadian Commercial Banking impaired was up in Q1, driven by losses across unrelated sectors.

翻到第23張幻燈片。第一季度，減損準備金略有上升，減損損失率為 35 個基點。本季加拿大個人及商業銀行和資本市場的減損撥備有所下降。受其他非相關產業虧損的影響，加拿大商業銀行業第一季的不良貸款增加。

The losses in this portfolio are attributable to a small number of impairments, and the overall portfolio remains strong, and we do not expect losses to remain elevated to this degree through the balance of the year. Impaired provisions in US Commercial Banking were up in Q1, but remained lower compared to the same period last year.

該投資組合的損失歸因於少量減值，整體投資組合依然強勁，我們預計今年剩餘時間內損失不會持續如此之高。美國商業銀行業第一季的不良貸款準備增加，但仍低於去年同期水準。

Slide 24 summarizes our gross impaired loans and formations. Our gross impaired loan ratio was 64 basis points, up 3 basis points quarter-over-quarter. New formations were down in Q1, with a decrease in business and government loans, partially offset by an increase in consumer loans.

第 24 頁總結了我們的不良貸款和資產負債表調整總額。我們的不良貸款總額比率為 64 個基點，較上季上升 3 個基點。第一季新貸款發放量下降，其中商業貸款和政府貸款減少，但消費貸款增加部分抵消了影響。

While the impaired loan ratio on mortgages increased modestly this quarter, given continued softness in the housing market, our loan-to-value ratio for the mortgage book remains strong at 57% for the overall book and 68% on impaired balances. Overall, we do not expect material loss -- material increases in losses within our mortgage portfolio.

儘管本季抵押貸款不良貸款率略有上升，但鑑於房地產市場持續疲軟，我們的抵押貸款組合的貸款價值比仍然強勁，整體貸款組合的貸款價值比為 57%，不良餘額的貸款價值比為 68%。總體而言，我們預計不會出現重大損失——即我們的抵押貸款組合中的損失不會出現重大增加。

Slide 25 outlines the 90-plus day delinquency rates and net write-offs of our Canadian consumer portfolios. The 90-plus day delinquencies in our Canadian consumer portfolios increased quarter-over-quarter primarily reflecting the current macroeconomic backdrop. Our consumer net write-off ratio increased modestly, mainly driven by the credit card portfolio, which continues to be affected by elevated unemployment and ongoing economic uncertainty.

第 25 頁概述了我們加拿大消費者投資組合中 90 天以上的逾期率和淨核銷額。我們加拿大消費者貸款組合中逾期 90 天以上的貸款數量較上季增加，主要反映了當前的宏觀經濟環境。我們的消費者淨核銷率略有上升，主要受信用卡業務的影響，該業務持續受到高失業率和持續經濟不確定性的影響。

While we closely monitor evolving economic conditions, we remain confident in the overall strength and stability of these portfolios, which are aligned with our client-driven strategies. In closing, while impaired loan losses were slightly higher in Q1, our credit performance remains stable and resilient, reflecting our prudent risk management and disciplined portfolio oversight.

儘管我們密切關注不斷變化的經濟形勢，但我們仍然對這些投資組合的整體實力和穩定性充滿信心，這些投資組合與我們以客戶為中心的策略一致。最後，雖然第一季不良貸款損失略有上升，但我們的信貸表現依然穩定且具韌性，這反映了我們審慎的風險管理和嚴格的投資組合監管。

We will continue to foster strong client engagement and proactively assess our portfolios, ensuring they remain robust amid the evolving market conditions. Our strong allowance levels continue to provide prudent coverage for changing economic conditions. And notwithstanding the higher impairments in our Commercial Banking portfolios this quarter, we remain comfortable with our full year guidance. I will now ask the operator to open the line as we welcome your questions.

我們將繼續加強與客戶的密切聯繫，並積極評估我們的投資組合，以確保它們在不斷變化的市場環境中保持穩健。我們充足的撥備水準持續為因應不斷變化的經濟環境提供審慎的保障。儘管本季度商業銀行投資組合的減損損失較高，但我們對全年業績指引仍充滿信心。現在我將請接線生接通電話，我們歡迎大家提問。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作說明）

Ebrahim Poonawala, Bank of America.

Ebrahim Poonawala，美國銀行。

Hey, good morning. I guess maybe first question for you, Harry or Rob. When we look at sort of the margin expansion that occurred this quarter and just the overall profitability, I think the ROE at 17.4%, appreciating, we can't run rate 1Q as the go-forward ROE profile.

嘿，早安。我想第一個問題可能要問你們，哈利或羅布。當我們審視本季利潤率的擴張以及整體盈利能力時，我認為 17.4% 的淨資產收益率 (ROE) 正在上升，我們不能將第一季的水平作為未來淨資產收益率的參考。

But just talk to us as we think about over the medium term, like why commerce, even with the 13.5% or higher CET1 should not earn somewhere between a 16% to 17% ROE and if the capital ratios were to decline, maybe even better. Like what would be the argument against that statement?

但請和我們談談中期考慮的問題，例如為什麼商業即使擁有 13.5% 或更高的 CET1，其 ROE 也不會達到 16% 到 17%，如果資本比率下降，甚至可能更高。那麼，反對這種說法的理由是什麼呢？

Good morning, Ebrahim, nice to hear from you. I'll kick it off and maybe I'll pass it over to Rob in a moment. But the first thing I'd say is that our strategy has been consistent, and we believe we have unique competitive advantages that really position us well to deliver profitable growth.

早安，易卜拉欣，很高興收到你的來信。我先開始，可能一會兒就交給羅布。但首先我想說的是，我們的策略一直保持一致，我們相信我們擁有獨特的競爭優勢，這使我們能夠真正實現獲利成長。

We target the right client segments where we can deepen relationships and be meaningful to our clients. We have the right product focus. If you think about deposits, investments, transaction accounts across each of our businesses, we have the right technology. As I mentioned earlier, we've invested in AI-enabled technology and perhaps you'll hear from Hratch later around what he's doing in the retail space because it's excellent.

我們瞄準合適的客戶群，以便加深與客戶的關係，並為客戶創造有意義的價值。我們擁有正確的產品定位。如果考慮到我們各項業務的存款、投資和交易帳戶，我們擁有合適的技術。正如我之前提到的，我們已經投資了人工智慧技術，也許稍後你會聽到 Hratch 談論他在零售領域的工作，因為他的工作非常出色。

And we have the right culture, our team members are focused on delivering the entire connected bank to our clients. And so we're very confident in our ROE trajectory and that journey that we're on. And maybe, Rob, if you want to quantify some of the drivers, that would be great.

我們擁有正確的企業文化，我們的團隊成員專注於為客戶提供完整的互聯銀行服務。因此，我們對自身的 ROE 成長軌跡以及我們正在走的這條道路充滿信心。羅布，如果你想量化一些驅動因素，那就太好了。

Yes. Thanks, Harry, and Ebrahim, last quarter, we guided for the full year that we'd be above 15%. And I would -- obviously, the year is off to a very strong start. We're less worried about a specific target, though we do acknowledge the need to refresh our target. But as I said last quarter, when we talked about '26, once we cross 15%, it's not like it was mission accomplished for us.

是的。謝謝哈里和易卜拉欣，上個季度我們預測全年成長率將超過 15%。而且，顯然，今年開局非常強勁。我們不太擔心具體的目標，不過我們也意識到需要更新我們的目標。但正如我上個季度所說，當我們談到 2026 年時，一旦我們超過 15%，並不意味著我們的任務就完成了。

As Harry said, we think we've got the right strategy, the right investments, the right technology and the right people to drive what we think is a premium ROE, right? So we expect to continue to move this higher. And it's based on, to your point, the current level of buyback, the current capital levels, we're not doing anything particularly unnatural to get there. But I do want to maybe just stop for a second and talk about how we get there matters to us. Like we talk a lot about disciplined execution.

正如哈利所說，我們認為我們擁有正確的策略、正確的投資、正確的技術和正確的人才，可以實現我們認為的優質股本回報率，對嗎？因此我們預計價格還會繼續上漲。正如你所說，這是基於目前的股票回購水準和目前的資本水平，我們並沒有採取任何特別不自然的措施來實現這一目標。但我確實想停下來片刻，談談我們如何到達目的地對我們來說有多重要。就像我們經常談到的嚴謹執行一樣。

The other word we use a lot around here is the word balance, right? And so when we think about where ROE is, we also think about it in the context of earnings per share growth. We're not over-rotating to ROE at the expense of earnings growth. Like there's a lot of unnatural things you can do to try to get your ROE higher in the short-term.

我們這裡經常用到的另一個詞是“平衡”，對吧？因此，當我們考慮 ROE 的位置時，我們也會將其放在每股盈餘成長的背景下考慮。我們不會為了追求淨資產收益率而犧牲獲利成長。有很多不自然的方法可以幫助你在短期內提高淨資產收益率（ROE）。

That balance to us means over time, we can get both the earnings growth and the ROE expansion. And it's something that we've been doing rather successfully over the last little while. So our focus is on controlling what we can control and keep doing what we've been doing. We think that means the ROE is going to continue to move higher over time.

對我們來說，這種平衡意味著隨著時間的推移，我們可以同時實現獲利成長和淨資產收益率擴張。在過去的一段時間裡，我們在這方面做得相當成功。因此，我們的重點是控制我們能夠控制的事情，並繼續做我們一直在做的事情。我們認為這意味著隨著時間的推移，淨資產收益率（ROE）將會繼續上升。

Understood. And maybe, I guess, question for Hratch. I mean we've not seen this play out in the Canadian banks as much, but there's been obviously a lot of concern around AI, AI disruption risk. Perhaps you spent a lot of time around just the consumer franchise thinking about this.

明白了。或許，我該問赫拉奇一個問題。我的意思是，雖然我們在加拿大銀行業還沒有看到太多這樣的情況，但顯然人們對人工智慧、人工智慧帶來的顛覆性風險非常關注。或許你花了很多時間思考這個問題，而這些思考都圍繞著消費者特許經營。

One, talk to us kind of your perspective on how you think about the opportunity versus the disruption risk for consumer deposits and banking and then maybe just your strategy as you kind of leading the business?

首先，請您談談您對消費者存款和銀行業務面臨的機會與顛覆風險的看法，以及您作為企業領導者的策略？

Yes. Thank you, Ebrahim. Thanks for the question. And look, I think the short answer is we think it's an opportunity as with any other technology, the way we look at it is how do we adopt the available technologies that are emerging in order to further our business strategy.

是的。謝謝你，易卜拉欣。謝謝你的提問。簡而言之，我認為我們認為這是一個機遇，就像任何其他技術一樣，我們看待它的方式是如何採用正在湧現的現有技術來推進我們的業務策略。

And keying off a bit of what Rob was saying, right, our business strategy in retail is to continue to generate value for all of our stakeholders. That's how we believe the balance is achieved. And you're seeing that in the results, like I will say, very proud of what the team has delivered once again at 13%.

正如羅布剛才所說，我們的零售業務策略是繼續為所有利害關係人創造價值。我們認為這樣就能實現平衡。正如我所說，從結果中可以看出這一點，我對團隊再次取得的 13% 的成績感到非常自豪。

Growth is there, top market revenue growth. But at the same time, after several years, we're inching back to the 30% ROE level. And I think that's because of everything that we've done in the business and we'll continue to do. So on the AI front, it does support our strategy. As we've talked about before, we've been very, very focused on where we're trying to grow and create differentiation.

成長勢頭強勁，市場收入成長尤為顯著。但同時，經過幾年的時間，我們的淨資產收益率正逐步回升至 30% 的水平。我認為這是因為我們在業務上所做的一切，以及我們將繼續做的一切。因此，在人工智慧方面，它確實支持我們的策略。正如我們之前討論過的，我們一直非常非常專注於我們想要發展壯大並創造差異化的領域。

In the retail business, there's three priorities for us, lead in every day banking solutions for all of our clients, lead in investments and advice in the mass affluent segment and continue to drive the efficiency and simplification of our business, which benefits both our team and how easy it is for them to do their work as well as the shareholders through the efficiency.

在零售業務方面，我們有三個優先事項：為所有客戶提供領先的日常銀行解決方案；在大眾富裕人群的投資和諮詢領域保持領先地位；以及不斷提高業務效率和簡化業務流程，這不僅有利於我們的團隊，使他們的工作更加輕鬆，也有利於股東，因為效率的提高使股東受益。

And we've been using, frankly, AI. You saw Harry's slide at the enterprise level. We've been using AI across all three of those things. But maybe one example I can give you, which I think is a good one that cuts across all of them is our Cortex platform that was referenced on the slide before.

坦白說，我們一直在使用人工智慧。你已經在企業層級看到了哈利的幻燈片。我們一直在這三方面都運用人工智慧。但我可以舉一個例子，我認為這個例子很好地概括了所有這些問題，那就是我們之前在幻燈片中提到的 Cortex 平台。

And the reason I think this is a good one, it actually highlights that AI itself and a lot of the attention there is right now on models and LLMs and some of our peers talk a lot about that. But the differentiation isn't really in the models. It's about how you build your business processes and change your business model to actually leverage what AI can do.

我認為這是一個好例子，因為它實際上突顯了人工智慧本身以及目前人們對模型和LLM的關注，我們的一些同行也對此進行了很多討論。但真正的差別並不在於模型本身。關鍵在於如何建立業務流程並改變業務模式，從而真正利用人工智慧的能力。

And some of that is built on years of foundational investments. So Cortex is built on foundational investments in the quality of our data that we've made for many years. Foundational investments in our eCRM platform, which cuts across all of our channels, whether it's the front line and the branches, the contact centers or digital, foundational investments in our martech stack as well as many others.

而其中一些成果是建立在多年的基礎性投資之上的。因此，Cortex 的建構是基於我們多年來對資料品質的基礎性投入。我們對 eCRM 平台進行了基礎性投資，該平台貫穿我們所有的管道，無論是前線和分支機構、聯絡中心還是數位管道；此外，我們還對行銷技術堆疊以及其他許多方面進行了基礎性投資。

And now what AI allows us to do is to use some traditional, I'll call it, machine learning models to begin with in Cortex to allow us to understand on a personalized level, what clients need, get that to the right place, whether that's the digital channel or our advisers to be actioned and start leveraging even LLMs on top of that to help our advisers prepare for that conversation.

現在，人工智慧讓我們能夠首先在 Cortex 中使用一些傳統的（我稱之為）機器學習模型，從而在個性化層面上了解客戶的需求，並將這些需求傳遞到正確的地方，無論是數位管道還是我們的顧問，以便採取行動，並在此基礎上開始利用 LLM（學習領導模型）來幫助我們的顧問為對話做好準備。

And over time, even having a conversational interfaces to bring that LLM interface to clients directly. And we're also building Agentic flows on top of that to start processing things in the back end for our clients. And so when you put all of that together, we focused Cortex particularly. We launched at the end of last fiscal.

隨著時間的推移，甚至可以透過對話式介面將LLM介面直接帶給客戶。此外，我們也正在建立 Agentic 流程的基礎上，開始為我們的客戶在後端處理事務。因此，綜合考慮所有這些因素，我們特別關注了 Cortex。我們在上個財年末正式上線。

This quarter, we focused particularly on the savings side and deposits. And what we're seeing is that 44% conversion rate uplift that you see there. That's relative to controls if we didn't follow the personalized approach that Cortex allows us to do.

本季度，我們重點關注了儲蓄和存款方面。我們看到的是轉換率提升了 44%，就像你看到的那樣。如果我們沒有採用 Cortex 允許的個人化方法，那麼這就是相對於對照組而言的情況。

And that's just the beginning. We're going to rise from there. And again, if you look at the impact of that in units for the first quarter in the products that we applied the Cortex use cases to about 10% of unit sales actually came out of Cortex results.

而這只是個開始。我們將從那裡崛起。此外，如果你看一下第一季我們應用 Cortex 用例的產品的銷售影響，你會發現大約 10% 的銷售實際上來自 Cortex 的成果。

Got it, I'll follow-up again on more on this, but thank you for the detailed lots.

明白了，我會就此事再跟進，但非常感謝您提供的詳細資訊。

Matthew Lee, Canaccord Genuity.

Matthew Lee，Canaccord Genuity。

Hi, thanks for taking my question. I know, Rob, you gave some color on NIM, but I just want to maybe understand how much the quarter-over-quarter expansion in Q1 was seasonality versus some of the deposit portfolio benefits and other? And then how much of a reversion should we expect throughout the year?

您好，感謝您回答我的問題。我知道，Rob，你已經對淨利差（NIM）做了一些解釋，但我只是想了解一下，第一季環比增長有多少是季節性因素造成的，又有多少是存款組合收益或其他因素造成的？那麼，我們應該預期全年會出現多大的回落幅度呢？

Good morning, Matthew, it's Rob. So I've often spoken in the past about the margin in three main buckets, right? There's the hedging and positioning, the so-called tractoring strategy, there's business mix and then there's the product margin, which kind of reflects the competitive environment. And I would say this quarter, the margin uplift has been about one-third, one-third, one-third roughly in those three categories.

早安，馬修，我是羅伯。我過去經常把利潤率分為三個主要類別，對吧？有避險和定位，也就是所謂的“拖拉機策略”，有業務組合，還有產品利潤率，這在某種程度上反映了競爭環境。我想說，本季這三個類別的利潤率分別提高了約三分之一、三分之一、三分之一。

The hedges work, they do what they're going to do. The tractoring strategy will continue to roll on as we've discussed in the past. Mix was positive and both from a deposit volume perspective and a deposit mix perspective. So a little bit more noninterest-sensitive deposit, a little bit less term product and this deposit volumes were strong as they often are, particularly in the commercial businesses.

樹籬發揮了作用，它們完成了它們該做的事情。我們將繼續按照先前討論過的策略推進耕作。無論從礦藏總量或礦藏結構來看，礦藏結構都是正面的。因此，對利率不敏感的存款略有增加，定期存款產品略有減少，而且存款量一如既往地強勁，尤其是在商業領域。

Now in terms of going forward, often what we see -- and you saw it last year in Q2 as well, where we had a sequential downtick in net interest margin. There's some seasonality to it. I mean checking accounts tend to go down a little bit.

展望未來，我們經常看到──去年第二季你們也看到了──淨利差較上季下降。這有一定的季節性。我的意思是，支票帳戶裡的錢往往會略有下降。

Credit card balances tend to go down a little bit, those commercial balances roll off, again, just seasonally as some of the -- some of our commercial clients are using funds for whether it's bonus payments, tax payment, restocking inventory, all kinds of reasons. So last year, we saw a slight downtick in Q2 as well. It wouldn't surprise me if that happened again this Q2. But the overall margin story otherwise continues to be that stable to gradual increase that we've been guiding to over time.

信用卡餘額往往會略微下降，商業餘額也會相應減少，這同樣是季節性的，因為我們的一些商業客戶會將資金用於支付獎金、繳稅、補充庫存等各種用途。所以去年第二季我們也看到了輕微的下滑。如果第二季再次發生這種情況，我不會感到驚訝。但整體而言，利潤率將持續維持我們一直以來所預期的穩定成長態勢。

Okay. So when we say stable NIM, it's kind of stable from the Q1 levels?

好的。所以，當我們說淨利差穩定時，是指它與第一季的水平基本上保持穩定嗎？

Yes. Like I said, beyond factoring in potential seasonality in Q2 where it might give back a basis point or 2. The story beyond that is to continue to move stable to gradually higher.

是的。正如我所說，除了考慮第二季度可能出現的季節性因素（可能會帶來一到兩個基點的回落）之外。接下來的發展趨勢是持續保持穩定並逐步走高。

All right, I appreciate it.

好的，謝謝。

Thanks.

謝謝。

John Aiken, Jefferies.

約翰艾肯，傑富瑞集團。

Good morning, Frank, when I take a look at the 90-plus day delinquency rates in the Canadian portfolio, I understand that your confidence in terms of your own portfolio, your credit adjudication and everything else like that. But when I look at the upward trend in these numbers, how concerned should we be?

早安，弗蘭克。當我查看加拿大投資組合中超過 90 天的逾期率時，我理解你對自己投資組合、信貸審批以及其他類似方面充滿信心。但當我看到這些數字的上升趨勢時，我們該有多擔心呢？

Do you think that we're at or near a peak in terms of these levels? Do we think they may actually inflate a little bit more? And what do you think the impact could be in terms of your broader portfolio?

你認為我們目前的這些水平已經達到或接近高峰了嗎？我們認為它們實際上可能會再上漲一點嗎？那麼，您認為這會對您的整體投資組合產生什麼影響？

Yes. Thank you, John, for the question. I do believe there is also some seasonality in those numbers, say, in particular, if you look into the credit cards that usually tend to be a little higher in the Q1 pattern given the seasonal patterns there. But overall, I would say those numbers actually fairly well reflect our expectations against the ongoing macroeconomic backdrop.

是的。謝謝你的提問，約翰。我相信這些數字也存在一定的季節性，例如，特別是如果你查看信用卡數據，考慮到季節性因素，信用卡數據通常在第一季會略高一些。但總的來說，我認為這些數字實際上相當準確地反映了我們對當前宏觀經濟狀況的預期。

So that is why we do feel very confident with our guidance given because that would be included in those expectations. And I mean, we are seeing still some ongoing, I would say, softness in the economy. We have seen unemployment going up, going down a little bit, but having to a certain extent, plateaued. We do have the USMCA negotiations coming our way. So there's some uncertainty still ahead of us.

所以，正因如此，我們對所提供的指導非常有信心，因為這都包含在這些預期之中。我的意思是，我們仍然看到經濟持續疲軟。我們看到失業率先上升，然後略有下降，但在某種程度上已經趨於平穩。我們即將面臨美墨加協定談判。所以，未來仍存在一些不確定因素。

But I'm not overly concerned with those numbers. We have the right strategies underneath both from a business perspective and from a risk management perspective to manage those portfolios very proactively. And as I said at the beginning, those broadly expect -- reflect our expectations that we had going into the quarter as well.

但我並不太在意這些數字。無論從商業角度或風險管理角度來看，我們都制定了正確的策略，以非常積極主動地管理這些投資組合。正如我一開始所說，這些整體預期也反映了我們進入本季時的預期。

Thanks Frank, and if I could, Rob, you to make some commentary about service in Caribbean, where it actually does look like the gross impaired loans are heading in the right direction. Is there anything you can comment about that region?

謝謝弗蘭克，羅布，如果可以的話，請你談談加勒比地區的服務情況，那裡的不良貸款總額似乎確實正在朝著正確的方向發展。您對那個地區有什麼評價嗎？

No. I mean they are headed. As you said, there is a little bit of a trend there, but nothing really to call out.

不。我的意思是，他們正朝著那個方向前進。正如你所說，這其中確實存在一些趨勢，但沒有什麼特別值得一提的。

Thanks, Frank. I'll reach you.

謝謝你，弗蘭克。我會聯絡你的。

Doug Young, Desjardins Capital Markets.

道格楊，德斯賈丁資本市場。

Hi, good morning. Just wanted to go back to Harry. I think you said 10 consecutive quarters of positive operating leverage. Just looking at your expense ratio, it's improved quite a bit. Maybe can you unpack a little bit about what you're benefiting from maybe Harry or Rob, what could throw a wrench into this?

您好，早安。只想回到哈利身邊。我想你說過連續10個季度實現正經營槓桿。單看你的費用率，已經有相當大的改善了。或許你可以稍微詳細說說你​​從哈利或羅布那裡得到了什麼好處，有什麼因素可能會破壞這一切？

And then Hratch, maybe if you can kind of tag in, like it looks like you brought your expense ratio down in Canadian Personal and Small Business Banking quite a bit. Like how do we think about it going forward?

然後，Hratch，也許你可以插一句，看起來你們在加拿大個人和小型企業銀行業務方面的費用率已經大幅降低了。我們接下來該如何看待這個問題？

Good morning, Doug, It's Rob. Maybe I'll get started. And we -- the revenue visibility has been pretty good for us over the last little while. And so we've taken the opportunity to advance some spending that otherwise might have happened later this year or even next year to bring it forward a little bit and invest in future growth, right?

早安，道格，我是羅布。或許我可以開始了。而我們——在過去的這段時間裡，我們的收入可見度一直相當不錯。因此，我們藉此機會提前了一些原本可能在今年晚些時候甚至明年進行的支出，以投資未來的成長，對吧？

So aside of the fact that revenue-linked expenses have also been rising, we've been managing that revenue to expense gap fairly well. And that's just how we think about our expense outlook. We do like to have that positive operating leverage. We're not going to -- we target it every quarter. We're not saying we're going to deliver it every quarter. It's nice to have a 10-quarter winning streak for sure, and we intend to continue it.

因此，撇開與收入相關的支出也在增加這一事實不談，我們對收入與支出之間的差距控制得相當不錯。這就是我們對支出前景的看法。我們確實喜歡這種正向的經營槓桿效應。我們不會－我們每季都會設定目標。我們並不是說我們會每季都交付。能夠取得十連勝當然很棒，我們打算繼續保持下去。

But we do target on an annual basis. And with the environment that we've had, our expense in terms of absolute dollar or absolute percentage has been a little on the higher side, but it's been conscious and intentional spending to advance the priorities of the bank. So when we look forward, if revenue were to slow from here, we're confident that we have the levers to pull back some of that spending to maintain that operating leverage gap. Maybe I'll hand it over to Hratch for the second part of your question.

但我們每年都會訂定目標。鑑於我們所處的環境，無論從絕對金額還是絕對百分比來看，我們的支出都略高一些，但這都是有意識、有目的地進行的支出，旨在推進銀行的優先事項。因此，展望未來，如果營收成長放緩，我們有信心透過一些手段來削減部分支出，以維持營運槓桿差距。或許我會把這個問題的第二部分交給赫拉奇來回答。

Yes, sure. Thanks, Doug. Look, it's an area of focus for us, right? We talk about the bank-wide operating leverage. But as you see in the trend, the same applies in the retail business. So our approach has been all along to try to grow our revenues in that 7% to 10%-plus range that we've targeted, and we've exceeded that and to generate positive operating leverage on top of that. And how do we do that?

當然可以。謝謝你，道格。這是我們的重點關注領域，對吧？我們來談談全行的經營槓桿。但正如你所看到的趨勢，零售業也是如此。因此，我們一直以來的做法是努力將收入成長到我們設定的 7% 到 10% 以上的目標範圍內，而且我們已經超過了這個目標，並在此基礎上產生了積極的經營槓桿。我們該如何做到這一點？

It's focusing on scaling the businesses where we already are carrying some of the expenses on and we've done a good job of doing that as we scale and take advantage of a lot of the investments we've made over the last while. But even without the revenue side, I think the expense side is something that we've been very sharply focused on. And we're applying the same approach in retail as we do elsewhere in the bank.

公司目前專注於擴大業務規模，我們已經承擔了部分費用，而且我們在擴大規模的過程中，充分利用了過去一段時間以來所做的許多投資，在這方面我們做得很好。但即使不考慮收入方面，我認為支出方面也是我們一直非常關注的重點。我們在零售業務中採用的方法與銀行其他業務中採用的方法相同。

We have to continue investing in the business. And what you do over time is you create a flywheel of you make the investments and a lot of the investments are also driving efficiency on the cost side and time of our team side. And that allows you to increase productivity, and that makes more room for us to invest in, so we can continue investing while keeping expenses more modest.

我們必須繼續投資這項業務。隨著時間的推移，你所做的就是創造一個飛輪效應，你進行的投資，許多投資也提高了我們團隊在成本和時間上的效率。這樣一來，你們就能提高生產力，從而為我們提供更多投資空間，使我們能夠在保持支出較為適中的情況下繼續投資。

And so I think for the rest of this year as well, you will see over the years, some of our expense growth moderate without our investment levels going down, actually continuing to increase. And part of it is we could talk about AI here as well and automation, but I think there's a lot of opportunity for us over time. If I touch just on our front line, who is a big part of the resources that we have at our disposal.

因此我認為，在今年剩餘的時間裡，你會看到，隨著時間的推移，我們的一些支出成長會放緩，而我們的投資水準不會下降，實際上還會繼續成長。我們也可以在這裡談談人工智慧和自動化，但我認為隨著時間的推移，我們有很多機會。如果我只談談我們的前線人員，他們是我們可支配資源的重要組成部分。

We set a goal a couple of years ago to try to get to 1 million hours saved for the front line through automation and some of the new use cases and they're now Gen AI as well, and we reached that goal this year, a year ahead of schedule. We've now looked at multiples of that going forward to create more hours for our team, as Harry referenced in his remarks to spend time with clients.

幾年前，我們設定了一個目標，透過自動化和一些新的用例（現在也包括人工智慧），為第一線人員節省 100 萬小時，我們今年提前一年實現了這個目標。我們現在已經考慮在未來投入更多時間，為我們的團隊創造更多工時，正如哈利在演講中提到的那樣，以便有更多時間與客戶交流。

And so we're seeing the number of meetings with clients, the number of hours with clients each adviser is spending or each front line person is spending go up. We're doing the same thing with several use cases in our contact centers, where AI is allowing us to either divert calls, take calls through our AI voice bot that we've highlighted in the results or when a human has to pick up the phone. We've got some workflows in the back end that are leveraging AI that also help them. And I think there's efficiency there. And then there's the back end.

因此，我們看到與客戶的會面次數，以及每位顧問或每位第一線員工與客戶相處的時間都在增加。我們在呼叫中心的多個用例中也採用了同樣的方法，人工智慧使我們能夠轉移呼叫、透過我們在結果中重點介紹的人工智慧語音機器人接聽電話，或在必須由人工接聽電話時接聽電話。我們在後端有一些利用人工智慧的工作流程，這些流程也能幫助他們。我認為這裡效率很高。然後還有後端。

We're looking at a lot of our processing of products, whether it's origination or servicing as I spoke about before. And I think what the Agentic workflows you can create today allow you to do is to create far more automation, which is good for everybody. It's good for clients. It's good for our team, not having to handle some of those exceptions and it's good for the shareholder and it's good for operational resilience, frankly, from a regulatory perspective.

我們正在審視我們的許多產品加工環節，無論是原料採購還是售後服務，正如我之前提到的。我認為，如今您能夠創建的 Agentic 工作流程可以實現更多的自動化，這對每個人都有好處。這對客戶有好處。這對我們的團隊來說是好事，因為我們不必處理這些例外情況；對股東來說是好事；坦白說，從監管角度來看，這對營運韌性也是好事。

So I think all of that creates opportunity to continue generating positive operating leverage, which we will continue to focus on and to continue getting that mix ratio to a better and better place. And obviously, ROE continuing to trend to the 30% level it is now and higher.

所以我認為所有這些都為繼續產生積極的經營槓桿創造了機會，我們將繼續專注於此，並繼續使該組合比例越來越好。顯然，淨資產收益率將繼續朝著目前的 30% 水準甚至更高。

So just one follow-up for us. Like where do you think you can take that expense ratio?

我們還有一個後續問題。你覺得這個費用率還能降到什麼程度？

I think, look, in the long-term at this point, I'll say directionally, we'd like to see it trend downwards. And we've talked about the business, and we think the potential of our franchise is to continue to grow above market, which we have been doing and continue to take the profitability metrics, whether that would be the mix ratio or the ROE to a premium level relative to the peer group. So I think we've got some room to go.

我認為，從長遠來看，就目前而言，從方向上看，我們希望看到它呈下降趨勢。我們已經討論過業務，我們認為我們特許經營的潛力在於繼續高於市場水平的增長，而我們也一直在這樣做，並將繼續把盈利能力指標（無論是產品組合比率還是淨資產收益率）提升到相對於同行的較高水平。所以我覺得我們還有一定的發展空間。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Mario Mendonca, TD Securities.

馬裡奧門東卡，道明證券。

Good morning. Maybe this is for Rob. Could you help me interpret slide 33. Is it a -- I'm talking about the interest rate environment where you show us the roll on and the roll-off rates? Is it as simple to suggesting that this chart will not change.

早安.或許這是給羅布的。請您幫我解讀第33張投影片。我指的是利率環境，也就是你們向我們展示的滾動利率和滾動利率嗎？難道就這麼簡單，可以斷言這張圖表不會改變嗎？

If everything were static, that the margin expansion continues through to 2026, the end of '26 and even maybe in the first half of '27, and those two lines cross and it comes to an end. Is it really that simple?

如果一切保持不變，利潤率擴張將持續到 2026 年，甚至可能持續到 2027 年上半年，然後這兩條線交叉，擴張就結束了。真的就這麼簡單嗎？

Well, good morning, Mario, yes, I mean, listen, when you think about the part of the margin expansion story that has been related to the balance sheet positioning, I mean, yes, it pretty much is that simple. By the time we get into middle of '27, you can see those lines start to intersect and it becomes more of a neutral. And that's based on the current forward curve, right?

早安，馬裡奧。是的，我的意思是，聽著，當你思考利潤率擴張與資產負債表定位相關的部分時，我的意思是，是的，事情就是這麼簡單。到了 2027 年中期，你可以看到這些線開始相交，變得更加中立。這是基於目前的遠期曲線，對吧？

But based on the current forward curve, you can see that benefit start to slowly migrate towards neutral in '27. Now the other things that have been driving the margin, whether it's business mix and the focus on what we're doing in the retail bank to focus on bringing the money in like the deposit side, all of those things should continue to benefit the net interest margin beyond that period. But the structural benefit we've been seeing does start to roll off in '27.

但根據目前的遠期曲線，你可以看到，到 2027 年，這種收益將開始緩慢地趨向中性。現在，其他推動利潤率上升的因素，無論是業務組合，還是我們在零售銀行業務中專注於吸引資金（例如存款方面）的做法，所有這些因素都應該會在未來一段時間內繼續有利於淨利差。但我們看到的這種結構性優勢在 2027 年開始逐漸消失。

It sounds like a little bit of a softball, but why is it that -- why has CIBC led the group in the last, say, two years, maybe 18 months in margin? I obviously compare all bank margin CIBC to the peers. And the gap is significant. I know you don't sit there worrying about what Royal is doing, but why would that margin be so much greater, the margin expansion be so much greater for CIBC than peers?

這聽起來像是一個很簡單的問題，但為什麼——為什麼在過去兩年，或者說18個月裡，CIBC在利潤率方面一直領先其他公司？我當然會將CIBC的所有銀行利潤率與同行進行比較。而且差距很大。我知道你不會坐在那裡擔心皇家銀行在做什麼，但是為什麼CIBC的利潤率會比同業高出這麼多，利潤率擴張幅度會高出這麼多呢？

Well, I'll try to handle softball notwithstanding. I'll try to handle it in a way that speaks more about what CIBC is doing rather than what others might be doing. We do manage for margin stability as best we can over time, which means that this benefit from the higher interest rates is bleeding in slowly. I can't speak to what the others have done or didn't do. But that benefit has been rolling in over time.

好吧，我會盡力應付壘球比賽的。我會盡量以更能體現加拿大帝國商業銀行（CIBC）自身做法的方式來處理這件事，而不是去討論其他銀行可能會採取的做法。隨著時間的推移，我們會盡力保持利潤率穩定，這意味著高利率帶來的好處正在緩慢地消退。我無法評論其他人做了什麼或沒做什麼。但這種好處是隨著時間的推移而逐漸顯現的。

And you've heard Hratch speak repeatedly on these calls about how we're looking at the mortgage business and how we're looking at our business mix generally in retail and where we're focused, those transaction accounts, the credit card businesses, the checking and savings accounts being more of a focus than say, the mortgage business has been helping the margin.

在這些電話會議上，您已經多次聽到赫拉奇談到我們如何看待抵押貸款業務，以及我們如何看待我們在零售領域的整體業務組合，以及我們的關注重點是什麼——交易帳戶、信用卡業務、支票和儲蓄帳戶比抵押貸款業務更受重視，這有助於提高利潤率。

And particularly in a period where mortgages haven't been growing very rapidly, it's been NII accretive as well. So for us, it comes down to executing on that treasury strategy of maintaining margin stability over time. And then the business strategies have been focused in the right areas, and we're going to continue to focus that way.

尤其是在抵押貸款成長並不迅速的時期，這也增加了淨利息收入。所以對我們來說，關鍵在於執行財務策略，也就是長期維持利潤率穩定。而且，我們的業務策略一直聚焦在正確的領域，我們將繼續朝著這個方向努力。

Last softball question, and I'll stop. We're still seeing this very, very strong growth in the financial institutions like the business and government lending. When you talk about what is CIBC up to there? And the reason I'm being so direct in asking the question is -- this is -- this pattern is familiar to me.

最後一個簡單問題，問完就不問了。我們仍然看到金融機構（如企業和政府貸款）保持著非常強勁的成長勢頭。你說的是CIBC在那邊在搞什麼鬼？我之所以如此直接地提出這個問題，是因為──這種模式對我來說很熟悉。

Not for CIBC necessarily, but it's familiar to me in the Canadian banks where a particular lending loan category grows much stronger than peers. And two years later, we're all talking about what went wrong. So maybe just talk about where this financial institutions group growth is coming from? And how do you get comfortable this isn't going to be a sad story two years now?

不一定是加拿大帝國商業銀行（CIBC）的情況，但在加拿大銀行業，我經常看到某種特定貸款類別的成長速度遠超同業。兩年後，我們都在討論到底出了什麼問題。那麼，或許我們可以談談金融機構集團的成長動力來自哪裡？兩年過去了，你怎麼能確信這不會成為一個悲傷的故事呢？

Good morning, Mario, this is Christian. So let me, I would say, try to unpack this. And I thought we actually spoke about it on last call. So if you look at that line item, we actually grew dramatically, I would say, in the second half of last year. And what we're trying to do now, as I said on last call, is to moderate this growth.

早安，馬裡奧，我是克里斯蒂安。那麼，讓我來試著解釋一下。我以為我們在上次通話時已經談過這件事了。所以如果你看一下這一項，你會發現我們在去年下半年實際上實現了大幅成長。正如我上次通話中所說，我們現在正在努力控制這種增長。

So whilst the growth year-over-year is substantial, if you were to look at it on a quarter-over-quarter spot basis, then that growth is moderated to roughly 2%, which is in line with what I said, which was high single digit by the end of this fiscal. This is a business we're very comfortable with. It leads to a number of other products that we can market with those clients.

因此，雖然同比增長幅度很大，但如果按季度環比來看，增長率則放緩至約 2%，這與我之前所說的一致，即本財年末增長率將達到接近 2%。我們非常熟悉這個行業。這引出了我們可以向這些客戶推廣的其他一些產品。

We discussed the business consistently with our colleagues in risk management, just to make sure that as you said, we don't have any issues going forward. We're not in the storage business, we are in the moving business. So there's a lot of velocity in some of these books. So we're very comfortable with the risk. But I'll probably pass on to Frank, if Frank has anything else to add.

我們與風險管理部門的同事們持續討論業務問題，以確保正如您所說，我們今後不會遇到任何問題。我們不做倉儲業務，我們做搬家業務。所以這些書中有些劇情發展速度很快。所以我們完全能夠承受這種風險。但我可能會把問題轉給弗蘭克，看看弗蘭克是否有其他補充。

Yes. Thank you for the question. And as Christian said, I mean, we do feel comfortable with the books. We have the right guardrails in place. We have the right strategies in place on how we think about the various businesses that actually fit in our financial institutions line and we don't have any material concerns on that business. And as Christian said, we do see the growth moderating.

是的。謝謝你的提問。正如克里斯蒂安所說，我們確實對這些書感到很放心。我們已經設定了合適的防護措施。我們已經制定了正確的策略，來思考哪些業務真正適合我們的金融機構業務線，我們對這些業務沒有任何實質的擔憂。正如克里斯蒂安所說，我們確實看到成長速度正在放緩。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Sohrab Movahedi, BMO Capital Markets.

Sohrab Movahedi，BMO資本市場。

Okay. Thank you, Rob, Harry, I mean, I heard you balanced, disciplined, profitable growth. I just wanted to look at our Hratch's business and Christian's business. I mean they are giving you similar ROEs have over the last, let's say, five quarters you're allocating more or less similar equity to each one of these businesses and earnings are within 10% of each other. So is this what balanced growth looks like? Is the capital markets can be as big as Canadian Personal Business Banking?

好的。謝謝你，羅布，哈里，我的意思是，我聽說了你們所說的平衡、自律、盈利的增長。我只是想看看我們Hratch的生意和Christian的生意。我的意思是，如果它們在過去五個季度中都實現了類似的淨資產收益率，那麼你分配給每個企業的股權也大致相同，而且它們的收益彼此之間的差距在 10% 以內。這就是均衡成長的樣子嗎？資本市場的規模能和加拿大個人商業銀行業務的規模一樣大嗎？

Sohrab, it's Rob. I mean I would think of it a little bit more as over time, that balance will appear. As we think about the market environment we've been in, capital markets is doing quite well. and the environment is constructive. We're taking advantage of businesses that we've been building for many, many years that are ultimately being done well within risk appetite and well within all of our just business mix appetite.

索拉布，我是羅布。我的意思是，我認為隨著時間的推移，這種平衡終會實現。回顧我們所處的市場環境，資本市場表現相當不錯，整體環境也較為正面。我們正在利用多年來建立的業務，這些業務最終都在風險承受能力和我們所有合理的業務組合偏好範圍內開展。

So when we think about -- I don't see a world -- or certainly, it's not our goal to have the world you just described happen. We think more each of our businesses can grow and over time at roughly the same rate. I mean, even the capital markets business, when we talk about the long-term targets for it, it's a 7% to 10% earnings growth kind of business, the same thing we target for the bank, the same thing we target for the retail bank.

所以當我們思考──我看不到一個世界──或者當然，我們的目標不是要實現你剛才所描述的那種世界。我們認為，我們旗下的每個業務都能不斷發展壯大，並且隨著時間的推移，發展速度大致相同。我的意思是，即使是資本市場業務，當我們談到它的長期目標時，它也是一個盈利增長 7% 到 10% 的業務，這和我們對銀行的目標一樣，也是我們對零售銀行的目標。

So I think there's a bit of a cyclical benefit or cyclical tailwind for us right now in the capital markets. But over time, we would expect that to normalize and see our businesses growing more in balance with each other. So when we talk balance, it's more in terms of growth rate rather than size.

所以我認為，目前資本市場對我們來說存在一些週期性利多或週期性順風。但隨著時間的推移，我們預期這種情況會逐漸正常化，我們的各項業務也將更協調地發展。所以當我們談論平衡時，更多的是指成長率而不是規模。

Okay. And so if Christian could continue to give you good ROE, is there a finite on the capital that you're willing to allocate to him? Or is he open for business for as much capital as he needs?

好的。所以，如果 Christian 能繼續為你帶來良好的 ROE，你願意分配給他的資本是否有上限？還是他願意接受任何他需要的資金？

Hi, good morning, Sohrab, It's Harry. I would say that the answer to the last question is no. We are -- we take a very balanced approach to where we allocate our capital. And when it comes to capital allocation, really, our approach is anchored in our client-focused strategy. This is all about our clients. So we're directing resources where we've seen strong client demand and, of course, long-term value creation.

你好，早安，索拉布，我是哈利。我認為最後一個問題的答案是否定的。我們採取非常平衡的資本配置方式。而就資本配置而言，我們的方法其實是以客戶為中心的策略。一切都以客戶為中心。因此，我們將資源投入客戶需求強勁且能夠創造長期價值的領域。

And that's what we're seeing right now. Obviously, this is a very interesting business capital markets as we speak in this cycle. And we believe that we are very well positioned to service our clients as we move through this cycle.

這就是我們現在所看到的。顯然，在我們談論的這個週期中，這是一個非常有趣的商業資本市場。我們相信，我們已做好充分準備，在這個週期中為客戶提供服務。

We are delivering capital markets products; I might remind you Sohrab to the entire organization. So our commercial bank, our wealth clients, our retail clients all have the benefit of capital market solutions. So this is a very well diversified business within capital markets as part of the diversified bank that we run.

我們正在向整個組織提供資本市場產品；我可能要提醒你，索拉布。因此，我們的商業銀行、財富管理客戶和零售客戶都能享受資本市場解決方案的好處。所以，這是我們經營的多元化銀行在資本市場領域內非常多元化的業務。

Yes. I wasn't debating you on it, Harry. I mean it looks like it's doing well. It's been a source of stability. I mean there's great track record over there. So I'm just curious as to why it couldn't be a bigger part of the bank but on a consistent basis. But that was my question.

是的。哈利，我不是跟你爭論這件事。我的意思是，看起來它運行得很好。它一直是穩定的來源。我的意思是，那邊有著非常輝煌的業績紀錄。所以我很好奇，為什麼它不能成為銀行業務中更重要的一部分，但又不能持續發展。但那是我的問題。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Gabriel Dechaine, National Bank Financial.

Gabriel Dechaine，國家銀行金融公司。

Hey, good morning. I just want to revisit that margin discussion in a slightly different angle here. For a while now, you've been guiding to something, I forget the language exactly stable to positive bias or upward bias, whatever it is. And you've been exceeding your guidance.

嘿，早安。我想從稍微不同的角度重新探討利潤率的問題。一段時間以來，你一直在引導我走向某種方向，我忘了確切的措辭，大概是指某種傾向，例如積極的偏見或向上的偏見，不管是什麼。你的表現已經超越了指導方針。

And I'm just wondering, what's -- what drivers are doing better than you expected? Is it the mix that's shifted a lot more favorably? Is it the shape of the yield curve that's been a positive surprise. Just to give a sense of why you keep outperforming our expectation on that -- in that area?

我只是想知道，哪些車手的表現超出了你的預期？是成分組合發生了更有利的變化嗎？殖利率曲線的形狀是否帶來了意想不到的驚喜？只是想說明為什麼你在這個領域總是超越我們的期望？

Hey, good morning, Gabe, It's Rob. So it does come down, I think, largely to mix and product margin as well. When we think part of mix is client preference, right? Like if mortgages were growing more rapidly in the industry, our mortgages will be growing more rapidly, that's positive for net interest income.

嘿，早上好，蓋布，我是羅布。所以我覺得，歸根究底，很大程度取決於產品組合和利潤率。我們認為客戶偏好也是產品組合的一部分，對吧？例如，如果產業內的抵押貸款成長速度加快，我們的抵押貸款也會成長得更快，這對淨利息收入是有利的。

It's not necessarily positive for NIM, right? And so when we think about client preference for -- at one point, it was client preference for GIC was a bit of a margin headwind. Some of that is rolling off, and now it's becoming more of a margin tailwind like that mix is something that can fluctuate over time.

這對NIM來說未必是好事，對吧？因此，當我們考慮到客戶對GIC的偏好時－在某個時期，顧客對GIC的偏好對利潤率來說是一個不小的阻力。其中一些因素正在逐漸消失，現在它更像是一種有利的順風，就像這種組合會隨著時間而波動一樣。

What doesn't fluctuate is where our focus is and what our strategy is and offering solutions to clients as opposed to a product level strategy, but clients often choose different things in that strategy. So with the mix evolving in a positive way, the margin has been doing better.

不變的是我們的關注點和策略，即為客戶提供解決方案，而不是產品層面的策略，但客戶往往在策略中選擇不同的內容。因此，隨著產品組合朝著正面的方向發展，利潤率也得到了改善。

And the other part that we can never really forecast is the competitive set and product level margins have been relatively stable, where we often in our guidance, assume there's going to be a little bit of price competition or a little bit of margin compression sometimes from some of the margins that we see in the market. So the hedging strategy has been doing what we exactly we thought it would do.

而我們永遠無法真正預測的另一部分是競爭格局和產品層面的利潤率，這些利潤率一直相對穩定。在我們的預測中，我們經常假設會出現一些價格競爭，或者由於我們在市場上看到的某些利潤率，利潤率有時會受到一些壓縮。所以，對沖策略的效果完全符合我們的預期。

The mix and the product margins are behaving well and in line with what our strategy is. But we don't always guide to exactly what clients are going to do because we never are positive on that going into a quarter. Overall, though, controlling what we can control, as I've said before, is what gives us the constructive view on margins. So we do think it's going to continue to migrate higher over time based on the things that we're doing.

產品組合和產品利潤率表現良好，符合我們的策略預期。但我們並不總是能準確地指導客戶會採取什麼行動，因為我們永遠無法確定一個季度開始後客戶會做什麼。不過總的來說，正如我之前所說，控制我們能夠控制的事情，才能讓我們對利潤有建設性的看法。所以我們認為，根據我們正在採取的措施，它將會隨著時間的推移而繼續上漲。

And how important is the combination of slow mortgage growth plus the competitive dynamic based on that one graph in your slide, looks like the new inflows or renewals are still contributing to wider spreads.

房貸成長緩慢加上競爭態勢，這兩者結合起來有多重要？根據你投影片上的那張圖表來看，新增貸款或續約似乎仍在導致利差擴大。

Yes. Thanks, Gabriel. I'll jump in. It's Hratch here. So it's been a factor, but the mix is a much bigger factor than the inflow outflow differential, if you will. So if you look at over the last year, that differential between inflows and outflows had been, call it, a couple of basis points a quarter to the PBB margin positive.

是的。謝謝你，加布里埃爾。我來插一句。我是赫拉奇。所以這確實是一個因素，但混合程度比流入流出差值的影響要大得多。因此，如果你回顧過去一年，你會發現資金流入和流出之間的差額，可以說，每季對 PBB 利潤率的影響是幾個基點的正值。

It is getting a little bit more muted. I would expect going forward, it's still a positive. We're still seeing, as you see on the chart, a bit of a differential there, maybe not as big as it was. And so for the next several quarters, I would still expect in the order of a basis point a quarter help from that. But the bigger factor is, as Rob said, the mortgages growth versus cards growth. And we've seen muted market on the mortgage side, right?

聲音漸漸變得柔和了一些。我預計未來情況仍然會是正面的。正如你在圖表中看到的，我們仍然看到一些差異，雖然可能沒有以前那麼大了。因此，在接下來的幾個季度裡，我仍然預期每季能從中獲得大約一個基點的幫助。但正如羅布所說，更重要的因素是抵押貸款的成長與信用卡成長之間的對比。我們看到抵押貸款市場表現平淡，對吧？

We were expecting sort of mid- to low single digits this year, and that would have been part of our guidance and the market has been a bit slower than that. Now it's more low single-digit growth on mortgages. And we continue to do really well in our cards franchise, both because of our co-brand portfolio as well as our premium travel portfolio and some of our new everyday rewards cards. And so I think if that mix continues, that will be a bigger factor than the mortgage repricing.

我們原本預期今年的成長率會在個位數中低段，這也在我們的預期之內，但市場實際表現比預期慢一些。現在抵押貸款的成長幅度已降至個位數以下。我們的信用卡業務持續取得非常好的成績，這既得益於我們的聯名卡產品組合，也得益於我們的高端旅行卡產品組合以及我們的一些新的日常獎勵卡。所以我認為，如果這種組合持續下去，這將比抵押貸款重新定價產生更大的影響。

The revolvers or proportion of revolving balances is increasing as well. Is that kind of a --

旋轉式資產或旋轉式資產的比例也在增加。那算是一種嗎？--

It is. We've seen utilizations are not up that significantly, but we are seeing interest earning balances and the reward balance is growing at a healthy pace, obviously, in a responsible way from a risk perspective. We have been very prudent on the card portfolio. We've actually taken some actions going back 1 year, 1.5 years ago to tighten up a bit, and I think you're seeing that in the results of our charge-offs and cards versus some of the peers.

這是。我們看到，雖然使用率並沒有顯著上升，但我們看到，計息餘額和收益餘額正在以健康的速度增長，顯然，從風險角度來看，這是負責任的。我們在信用卡產品組合方面一直非常謹慎。實際上，我們從 1 年前到 1.5 年前就開始採取一些措施來加強管控，我認為從我們與一些同行相比的壞帳和信用卡業績結果中，您已經看到了這一點。

Alright, cool, thanks, bye.

好的，謝謝，再見。

There are no further questions at this time. I would now like to turn the meeting over to Harry.

目前沒有其他問題了。現在我想把會議交給哈利。

Thank you, operator, and thank you all for joining us this morning. I wanted to reiterate three key messages, which I hope resonated with you all today. One, we're delivering robust profitable growth. We continue to demonstrate that our ability to outperform is sustainable through different market environments.

謝謝接線員，也謝謝各位今天早上收看我們的節目。我想重申三個關鍵訊息，希望今天大家都能有所共鳴。第一，我們實現了強勁的獲利成長。我們不斷證明，無論市場環境如何變化，我們都能保持優異的業績。

Two, we're focused on accelerating our execution. The cumulative effect of delivering strategic progress each quarter is significantly improving our capabilities across the bank. And three, we are well positioned to continue delivering high-quality financial results. We have a strong balance sheet and deep client relationships to continue growing organically.

第二，我們專注於加快執行速度。每個季度取得策略進展的累積效應，正在顯著提升我們銀行的整體能力。第三，我們有能力持續取得高品質的財務表現。我們擁有穩健的資產負債表和深厚的客戶關係，能夠持續實現有機成長。

We are excited for the many opportunities ahead across each of our businesses. And before I close, I wanted to thank the entire CIBC team for putting our clients first each and every day. Thank you, everyone, and have a good morning.

我們對旗下各業務部門未來面臨的眾多機會感到興奮。最後，我要感謝CIBC全體團隊，感謝他們每天都把客戶放在第一位。謝謝大家，祝大家早安。

Ladies and gentlemen, this does conclude today's conference call. Thank you for your participation, and you may now disconnect.

女士們、先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與，您現在可以斷開連接了。