Calumet Inc (CLMT) 2023 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and welcome to the Calumet Specialty Products Third Quarter 2023 Results Conference Call. (Operator Instructions). Please note, this event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Brad McMurray, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

美好的一天，歡迎參加 Calumet 特種產品 2023 年第三季業績電話會議。 （操作員說明）。請注意，此事件正在被記錄。我現在想將會議交給投資者關係主管布拉德·麥克默里 (Brad McMurray)。請繼續。

Thank you, Betsy. Good morning. Thank you all for joining us today for our third quarter 2023 earnings call. With me on today's call are Todd Borgmann, CEO; Vincent Donargo, CFO; Bruce Fleming, EVP Montana Renewables and Corporate Development; and Scott Obermeier, EVP Specialties. I'd also like to introduce David Luna, who recently joined the company as our incoming CFO, which will be effective January 1 upon Vincent's retirement from Calumet.

謝謝你，貝特西。早安.感謝大家今天參加我們的 2023 年第三季財報電話會議。與我一起參加今天電話會議的是執行長 Todd Borgmann；文森‧多納戈，財務長； Bruce Fleming，蒙大拿州再生能源與企業發展執行副總裁；和 Scott Obermeier，專業執行副總裁。我還想介紹一下 David Luna，他最近加入公司，擔任我們即將上任的財務官，該職位將於 Vincent 從 Calumet 退休後於 1 月 1 日生效。

You may now download the slides that accompany the remarks made on today's conference call, which can be accessed in the Investor Relations section of our website at www.calumet.com. Also, a webcast replay of this call will be available on our site within a few hours.

您現在可以下載今天電話會議上發言所附的幻燈片，這些幻燈片可以在我們網站 www.calumet.com 的投資者關係部分存取。此外，幾個小時內我們的網站上將提供本次電話會議的網路廣播重播。

Turning to the presentation on Slide 2, you can find our cautionary statements. I'd like to remind everyone that during this call, we may provide various forward-looking statements. Please refer to the partnership's press release that was issued this morning as well as our latest filings with the SEC for a list of factors that may affect our actual results and cause them to differ from our expectations.

翻到投影片 2 上的簡報，您可以找到我們的警告聲明。我想提醒大家，在這次電話會議中，我們可能會提供各種前瞻性陳述。請參閱今天早上發布的合作夥伴新聞稿以及我們向 SEC 提交的最新文件，以了解可能影響我們的實際結果並導致其與我們的預期不同的因素清單。

I'll now pass the call to Todd. Todd?

我現在將把電話轉給托德。托德？

Thanks, Brad, and welcome to Calumet's Third Quarter 2023 Earnings Call. We sure many of you saw that Calumet issued 2 press releases this morning. One was our traditional earnings release and the other was an announcement that after a thorough and productive negotiation, our general partner and conflicts committee reached agreement that Calumet will be transitioning to a C-corp.

謝謝 Brad，歡迎參加 Calumet 的 2023 年第三季財報電話會議。我們相信你們很多人都看到 Calumet 今天早上發布了 2 份新聞稿。一個是我們傳統的收益發布，另一個是我們的普通合夥人和衝突委員會經過徹底而富有成效的談判後宣布，Calumet 將轉型為 C 型公司。

I'm going to start with the quarterly report, and we'll transition to the conversion shortly thereafter. To do that, let's turn to Slide 3.

我將從季度報告開始，不久後我們將過渡到轉換。為此，我們來看幻燈片 3。

During the quarter, Calumet generated $75.5 million of adjusted EBITDA in what was, in many ways, a tale of 2 halves. The period started strong with the July that directionally represented what we expect out of Montana Renewables now that all units within the operation have been proven. However, the second half of the quarter was driven by 2 specific transient operational issues at our largest plants in Shreveport and Great Falls. Our Shreveport plant is fully repaired and the great Polisen replacement is on track to be complete in the week in the next week.

在本季度，Calumet 產生了 7550 萬美元的調整後 EBITDA，從許多方面來說，這相當於兩半的故事。這段時期從 7 月開始表現強勁，這直接代表了我們對蒙大拿再生能源公司的期望，因為營運中的所有單位都已得到驗證。然而，本季後半段是由於我們位於什里夫波特和大瀑布城的最大工廠出現了兩個特定的暫時性運作問題。我們的什里夫波特工廠已全面修復，Polisen 的更換工作預計將在下週完成。

Let me begin with more detail on the progress of Montana Renewables. First, in July, we demonstrated a financial representative result consistent with guidance. That was an important milestone as it marked the first full month that a majority of Montana Renewables feed was untreated. Specifically, 70% of our July throughput was local discounted untreated feedstock and MRL generated $14.2 million of adjusted EBITDA in the month.

讓我先詳細介紹蒙大拿州再生能源公司的進展。首先，我們在 7 月展示了符合指導的財務代表結果。這是一個重要的里程碑，因為它標誌著蒙大拿州可再生能源公司大部分飼料未經處理的第一個完整月份。具體來說，我們 7 月份吞吐量的 70% 是當地折扣的未處理原料，MRL 當月產生了 1,420 萬美元的調整後 EBITDA。

As mentioned, these results fell within our previous guidance of $1.25 to $1.45 per gallon on untreated feed and demonstrated the location and feedstock advantage that underpins Montana Renewables lasting competitive positioning.

如前所述，這些結果符合我們先前未處理飼料每加侖 1.25 美元至 1.45 美元的指導範圍，並證明了支撐蒙大拿州再生能源公司持久競爭地位的地理位置和原料優勢。

Second, and unfortunately, as our August press release highlighted, we also found a crack in a steam drum that is a component of our renewable hydrogen plant. Our team developed a plan to repair the drum quickly on site. However, after removing 469 tubes and getting a closer look, we made the decision to replace the steam drum. This replacement is now installed and will be mechanically complete in the next few days. We've included in the appendix a few pictures of the steam drum repair that might help put the event in perspective.

其次，不幸的是，正如我們八月份的新聞稿所強調的那樣，我們還在可再生氫工廠的蒸汽鼓中發現了裂縫。我們的團隊制定了現場快速修復滾筒的計劃。然而，在拆下 469 根管子並仔細觀察後，我們決定更換汽包。該替換件現已安裝完畢，並將在接下來的幾天內機械完成。我們在附錄中包含了一些蒸汽鼓維修的圖片，這些圖片可能有助於人們正確地看待該事件。

Third, we demonstrated the sites tighten redundancy as we ran at reduced rates while the steam system was under repair. Given we are at reduced rates, we also took the opportunity to pull forward the catalyst change that was otherwise scheduled for April of next year. We're taking that catalyst change now.

第三，我們證明了站點收緊了冗餘，因為我們在蒸汽系統維修期間以較低的速率運行。鑑於利率降低，我們也藉此機會推遲了原定於明年 4 月進行的催化劑變更。我們現在正在採取催化劑改變。

It's worth noting that our next-generation catalyst has performed well and nearly change is simply an economic optimization. We'd rather take a few extra days to complete the turnaround when we're already cut back than taking a full multi-week shutdown this spring. This also sets us up to enter a strategically important first half of 2024 with a clean slate and no planned turnarounds.

值得注意的是，我們的下一代催化劑表現良好，幾乎改變只是經濟優化。當我們已經削減開支時，我們寧願多花幾天時間來完成周轉，也不願在今年春天全面關閉數週。這也使我們能夠以全新的方式進入具有重要戰略意義的 2024 年上半年，並且沒有計劃中的周轉。

Turning to Shreveport. We also announced a few weeks ago that we had an operational issue that cost us roughly 300,000 barrels of specialty production during the quarter. The volume was limited primarily because of a plug heater tube in our CDW unit. The plugging has been repaired and our Shreveport plant has been operating well for about a month now.

轉向什里夫波特。幾週前我們也宣布，我們遇到了一個營運問題，導致我們在本季度損失了大約 30 萬桶專業生產。體積受到限制主要是因為我們的 CDW 裝置中有一個插頭加熱器管。堵塞已修復，我們的什里夫波特工廠已經正常運作了大約一個月。

Because of the operational circumstances, the third quarter certainly resulted in lower capture of market opportunity. With Shreveport fully up, Montana completing its steam drum next week and its catalyst change by the end of this month, I have full faith that we'll learn from this and reclaim the trajectory that we've come to expect.

由於營運環境的原因，第三季肯定會導致市場機會的捕捉率下降。隨著什里夫波特全面啟動，蒙大拿州將於下週完成其蒸汽鼓，並在本月底完成催化劑更換，我完全相信我們將從中吸取教訓並恢復我們所期望的軌跡。

While the quarter was a setback, our strategy is robust and remains unchanged. I'll take a few minutes to remind listeners of the strategic path we're on as we're deep into the plan. Our strategic transformation began 3 years ago in the depths of COVID. At that time, we determined that 3 things would be required to put our company on to a different financial trajectory, transform the business and ultimately unlock value for our shareholders.

儘管本季遭遇挫折，但我們的策略穩健且保持不變。我將花幾分鐘時間提醒聽眾我們在深入研究該計劃時所採取的策略路徑。我們的策略轉型始於三年前新冠疫情最嚴重的時期。當時，我們確定需要做三件事才能讓我們的公司走上不同的財務軌跡、實現業務轉型並最終為我們的股東釋放價值。

First, we needed to transform our core specialty business. Second, we needed to fund, construct and operate Montana Renewables. And third, we'd consider the structure of Calumet when the other 2 are behind us.

首先，我們需要轉型我們的核心專業業務。其次，我們需要資助、建造和營運蒙大拿州再生能源公司。第三，當其他兩個落後於我們時，我們會考慮 Calumet 的結構。

In Specialties, we made exceptional progress as highlighted by last year's record result, continued demonstration of commercial excellence and despite a couple of quarters of operational setbacks in Shreveport, marked improvement in the operations of this business.

在特種產品方面，我們取得了非凡的進展，去年創紀錄的業績凸顯了這一點，繼續展現了商業卓越性，儘管什里夫波特的運營經歷了幾個季度的挫折，但該業務的運營取得了顯著改善。

At Montana Renewables, in 3 years, we've turned an idea on a piece of paper into a leading business in renewable diesel and sustainable aviation fuel. MRL has been funded and constructed, fully demonstrated its operational and commercial leadership position and has shown a glimpse of its economic potential. Over time, our thesis at Montana Renewables is at or near the top of the renewable fuels competitive stack is based on 5 key pillars, which we believe are largely proven.

在蒙大拿州再生能源公司，我們在三年內將紙上的想法變成了再生柴油和永續航空燃料領域的領導者。 MRL已獲得資助和建設，充分展示了其營運和商業領先地位，並已初見其經濟潛力。隨著時間的推移，我們在蒙大拿州再生能源公司的論文處於或接近再生燃料競爭堆疊的頂部，該論文基於 5 個關鍵支柱，我們相信這些支柱已得到充分證明。

First is the geographic advantage and flexibility the business has in product marketing. From the beginning, our offering was oversubscribed. And through the first few months of operations, we've demonstrated the ability to partner with leading companies to flexibly find the best markets.

首先是企業在產品行銷方面的地理優勢和靈活性。從一開始，我們的產品就被超額認購。透過最初幾個月的運營，我們已經展示了與領先公司合作靈活尋找最佳市場的能力。

Most recently, we've seen this with over 60% of our products finding its way to Canada, which is fitting with our location less than 2 hours south of the Canadian border by truck. As we see reports of backups in the Panama canal, extending supply chains in all industries, we're reminded how fortunate we are at Montana Renewables to be situated with direct rail access to critical markets.

最近，我們發現超過 60% 的產品都運往加拿大，這與我們距離加拿大邊境以南不到 2 小時卡車車程的位置相符。當我們看到巴拿馬運河備份的報告，延伸所有產業的供應鏈時，我們想起蒙大拿再生能源公司是多麼幸運，能夠透過鐵路直接通往關鍵市場。

I think we're seeing how a steady margin theory applies to the industry as a whole. The volatility can be driven by length of supply chain.

我認為我們正在看到穩定利潤理論如何應用於整個產業。波動性可能由供應鏈的長度驅動。

In a declining feedstock price environment, margins in our industry will be higher for those with short supply chains. Over time, the industry's volatility should balance out, and we simply would expect those with shorter supply chains to be more steady.

在原料價格下降的環境下，供應鏈較短的產業的利潤率將會更高。隨著時間的推移，該行業的波動性應該會得到平衡，我們只是希望那些供應鏈較短的企業會更加穩定。

Second is our feedstock advantage, which is underpinned by our geography and pretreatment capability. Montana Renewables is the nearest demand point for feedstock suppliers who collectively represent more than 10x our capacity and our ability to competitively procure tallow, distillers corn oil, canola and even Camelina is well known.

其次是我們的原料優勢，這是由我們的地理位置和預處理能力所支撐的。蒙大拿州再生能源公司是原料供應商最近的需求點，這些供應商的產能總計超過我們的10 倍，而且我們有競爭力地採購牛脂、蒸餾玉米油、菜籽油甚至亞麻薺的能力是眾所周知的。

Our third competitive pillar is our SAF advantage. Sustainable aviation fuel is arguably the fastest-growing area in energy, and Montana Renewables is the first mover here is the largest SAF producer in North America. A great majority of the headlines we see of airlines buying SAF are originated in Great Falls, Montana.

我們的第三個競爭支柱是我們的 SAF 優勢。永續航空燃料可以說是能源領域成長最快的領域，蒙大拿再生能源公司是該領域的先驅，也是北美最大的 SAF 生產商。我們看到的絕大多數航空公司購買 SAF 的頭條新聞都源自蒙大拿州大瀑布城。

As most of you know by now, we believe that SAF represents our next transformational opportunity as we look ahead to our max SAF expansion. Through these first 3 pillars, I'd characterize Montana Renewables is fully proven, and the last 2 aren't far behind.

正如你們大多數人現在所知，我們相信 SAF 代表了我們的下一個轉型機會，因為我們期待 SAF 的最大擴張。透過前三個支柱，我認為蒙大拿州再生能源公司的特點已得到充分證明，後兩個支柱也不甘落後。

The fourth pillar is operational capability. We started renewable operations in Great Falls at about this time last year. The sequential commissioning of 4 major process operations over a 6-month period was success, starting with our renewable diesel unit last winter and a catalyst that has proven to be robust. Then renewable hydrogen plant in the first quarter and last our SAF unit and our pre-shoot in the second quarter. We learned a lot over the first few months of operations, including some expected early teething pains, and we have proven each of our units and the technology works as expected.

第四個支柱是營運能力。去年這個時候，我們開始在大瀑布城開展再生能源業務。從去年冬天我們的再生柴油裝置開始，4 個主要製程操作在 6 個月的時間內相繼調試成功，催化劑已被證明是可靠的。然後是第一季的可再生氫工廠，第二季是我們的 SAF 裝置和前期拍攝。在最初幾個月的營運中，我們學到了很多東西，包括一些預期的早期磨痛，並且我們已經證明了我們的每個單元和技術都按預期工作。

The last proof point is routine EBITDA generation, which is ultimately an outcome of the previous 4 items. We saw a glimpse of this at Montana Renewables generated over $14 million of adjusted EBITDA in July on only 70% on traded feed, but the crack in our steam gem has set us back a few months. We fully expect to resume demonstrating this final proof point in December and into 2024.

最後一個證明點是常規 EBITDA 生成，它最終是前 4 項的結果。我們在蒙大拿州再生能源公司看到了這一點，7 月調整後的EBITDA 超過1400 萬美元，而交易飼料的比例僅為70%，但我們的蒸汽寶石的裂縫讓我們倒退了幾個月。我們完全期望在 12 月直至 2024 年繼續證明這一最終證明點。

Turning to potential monetization. We expect some duration of audited financials at steady state operating levels as an enabler to receive a proper valuation for this business. We've said before that our goal is not to over optimize and play for the last dollar, but the difference between marketing a 100% proven business and a 90% proven business is enough to warrant pushing the expected time line for a potential monetization back a quarter. And midfield -- midyear feels like a reasonable time line for a potential next step.

轉向潛在的貨幣化。我們預計經審計的財務狀況將在一段時間內保持穩定的營運水平，從而推動該業務獲得適當的估值。我們之前說過，我們的目標不是過度優化並爭取最後一美元，但行銷 100% 經過驗證的業務和 90% 經過驗證的業務之間的差異足以保證推遲潛在貨幣化的預期時間線四分之一。中場——年中感覺像是下一步的合理時間表。

In parallel with taking this last step to complete the ultimate deleveraging of Calumet, we continue to be optimistic about the DOE process. We're in the final stage of the process. And while we can't say with certainty that we'll be successful or on what time line, our optimism continues to increase as time progresses that Montana Renewables with its unique renewable hydrogen system and first mover advantage in SAF is right down the fairway for the type of project the Department of Energy is looking for.

在採取最後一步完成 Calumet 最終去槓桿化的同時，我們繼續對能源部的進程感到樂觀。我們正處於過程的最後階段。雖然我們不能肯定地說我們會成功或在什麼時間線上取得成功，但隨著時間的推移，我們的樂觀情緒不斷增強，蒙大拿州可再生能源公司憑藉其獨特的可再生氫系統和SAF的先發優勢，正在走上成功之路。能源部正在尋找的專案類型。

And last, we continue to progress engineering around our MaxSAF project. We've narrowed the field to a short finalist list of technology providers and general contractors, and we expect to be in a position to fully launch this project as soon as we hear from the DOE that were cleared for financing. All signs continue to point towards this project being one that can more than double the steady-state EBITDA potential of Montana Renewables.

最後，我們繼續圍繞 MaxSAF 專案推進工程設計。我們已將範圍縮小到技術提供者和總承包商的簡短決賽名單，我們預計一旦收到美國能源部的融資許可，我們就能夠全面啟動該專案。所有跡象繼續表明該項目可以使蒙大拿州可再生能源公司的穩態 EBITDA 潛力增加一倍以上。

We've discussed the specialty transformation and standing up Montana Renewables. I mentioned earlier that the third leg to deliver the shareholder value that we ultimately expect was to evaluate the structure of Calumet. This topic has received a lot of attention over the past few years, and we believe it was critical to address the fundamental business first.

我們討論了專業轉型和蒙大拿州再生能源公司的發展。我之前提到，實現我們最終期望的股東價值的第三步是評估 Calumet 的結構。這個主題在過去幾年受到了很多關注，我們認為首先解決基本業務至關重要。

We all were reminded of the unintended consequences of being a very thinly traded MLP recently when a block sale of only 1.5% of our units had an outsized impact on our shareholders. We don't believe that was a reflection on the fundamentals of the business. It was rather the reality that without a broad institutional investor base, most of whom can't invest in MLPs, we can have wild swings in our equity price.

最近，當我們只有 1.5% 的單位進行大宗出售時，我們所有人都想起了交易量非常清淡的 MLP 所帶來的意想不到的後果，這對我們的股東產生了巨大的影響。我們認為這並不是對業務基本面的反映。現實是，如果沒有廣泛的機構投資者基礎（其中大多數人無法投資 MLP），我們的股價可能會大幅波動。

While this event served as a reminder, our general partner and Conflicts Committee were well into negotiations on the ultimate conversion of Calumet's MLP into a C-corp when it occurred.

雖然這一事件起到了提醒作用，但我們的普通合夥人和衝突委員會在事件發生時就 Calumet 的 MLP 最終轉變為 C 型公司的問題進行了深入的談判。

Calumet's general partner comprised of our founders and their families has been an ardent supporter of Calumet since the beginning. If we back up a few years when Calumet was fighting for its survival, the general partner didn't waver. With this transaction, the general partner will absorb a meaningful tax bill. And as Amy mentioned in this morning's press release, they're willing to lean in as their believers in Calumet's growth vision and see the significant value available to all unitholders. There is no group more committed or financially aligned with the Calumet value unlock than our general partner and on behalf of management and our unitholders, I thank the Heritage Group, Grube family and our Conflicts Committee for negotiating a transaction that is exceptional for all parties. I truly believe this is a foundational launching pad for the future of our company.

Calumet 的普通合夥人由我們的創辦人及其家人組成，從一開始就是 Calumet 的熱情支持者。如果我們回顧幾年前 Calumet 為生存而奮鬥的時候，普通合夥人並沒有動搖。透過此交易，普通合夥人將吸收一筆有意義的稅單。正如艾米在今天早上的新聞稿中提到的那樣，他們願意作為 Calumet 成長願景的信徒，並看到所有單位持有者可以獲得的巨大價值。沒有哪個團體比我們的普通合夥人更致力於Calumet 價值的釋放或在財務上更加一致，我代表管理層和我們的單位持有人感謝Heritage Group、Grube 家族和我們的衝突委員會談判了一項對各方來說都非同尋常的交易。我堅信這是我們公司未來的基礎跳板。

Let's flip to Slide 4 for more details on the transaction. We're going to go over some detail here, and we likely won't be getting into any more detail in Q&A as this approval is hot off the press.

讓我們翻到幻燈片 4 以了解有關交易的更多詳細資訊。我們將在這裡討論一些細節，並且我們可能不會在問答中討論更多細節，因為這項批准正在熱議中。

First, the corporate conversion will close within the next 9 months. We'll begin to prepare the necessary documents for the filing process soon. From there, we'll file a Form S-4, hold a unit holder vote and prepare for the ultimate closing. Upon closing, the general partner will exchange its existing IDRs and 2% general partner interest, which is approximately 1.6 million units for 5.5 million shares of common stock and 2 million warrants. These warrants will have a strike price of $20 a share and will expire 3 years from the date of issuance. This represents a dilution of 4.5% to our current shareholders, which is illustrated in the appendix on Slide 14.

首先，公司轉換將在未來 9 個月內完成。我們很快就會開始準備備案流程所需的文件。然後，我們將提交 S-4 表格、舉行單位持有人投票並為最終交割做好準備。交易完成後，普通合夥人將以其現有的 IDR 和 2% 的普通合夥人權益（約 160 萬股）交換 550 萬股普通股和 200 萬份認股權證。這些認股權證的執行價格為每股 20 美元，自發行之日起 3 年後到期。這意味著我們現有股東的股權被稀釋了 4.5%，如投影片 14 的附錄所示。

This slide also highlights a few governance features, including a staggered board, which will be made up of a majority of independent members. It's worth highlighting that upon conversion, there will be a single class of voting shares with economic interest fully aligned. As a management team, we look forward to getting out quickly to explain Calumet's growth strategy and immense value proposition to a new group of institutional investors that until now have not been able to invest in the company.

這張投影片也強調了一些治理特徵，包括交錯董事會，該董事會將由大多數獨立成員組成。值得強調的是，轉換後，將出現一類具有完全一致經濟利益的投票權股份。作為管理團隊，我們期待著迅速向一群新的機構投資者解釋 Calumet 的成長策略和巨大的價值主張，而這些機構投資者迄今尚未能夠投資該公司。

With that, I'm going to turn the call over to Vince to review the quarter. Vince?

有了這個，我將把電話轉給文斯來審查這個季度。文斯？

Thanks, Todd. Before I comment on our business segment, I would like to turn your attention to the RIN slides in the appendix. Our net income included a noncash gain of $173 million related to our RINs mark-to-market adjustment. We do not view these mark-to-market gains or losses as meaningful with respect to our business performance and our strategy regarding RINs remains unchanged.

謝謝，托德。在評論我們的業務部門之前，我想請您注意附錄中的 RIN 投影片。我們的淨利潤包括與 RIN 按市值調整相關的 1.73 億美元非現金收益。我們認為這些按市值計價的收益或損失對我們的業務績效沒有意義，並且我們有關 RIN 的策略保持不變。

So let's turn back to Slide 6. Our SPS business generated $38.7 million of adjusted EBITDA during the quarter. As Todd mentioned, we had a temporary operational issue at Shreveport that resulted in a loss of roughly 3,000 barrels of specialty product production. We purchased some third-party material where we could to ensure our long-term customers were kept whole, while the operations team at the facility brought the affected units back to normal production levels, which has occurred.

讓我們回到幻燈片 6。我們的 SPS 業務在本季度產生了 3870 萬美元的調整後 EBITDA。正如托德所提到的，我們在什里夫波特遇到了暫時的營運問題，導致約 3,000 桶特種產品產量損失。我們盡可能購買了一些第三方材料，以確保我們的長期客戶完好無損，同時工廠的營運團隊將受影響的設備恢復到正常生產水平，這已經發生了。

The other notable item that impacted the quarter was a $19 per barrel increase in crude prices. Our commercial team implemented price increases that largely took effect on October 1, so we are seeing the benefit of the price increases this quarter as crude has stabilized.

影響本季的另一個值得注意的因素是原油價格每桶上漲 19 美元。我們的商業團隊實施了漲價，主要於 10 月 1 日生效，因此隨著原油穩定，我們看到了本季漲價的好處。

We continue to be constructive on the margin environment going forward, although we'd expect normal seasonality late in the year. On the fuel side, both volumes and margins improved quarter-over-quarter. And while the winter is typically weaker seasonally, especially for gasoline, we continue to see strong distillate margins. Not only do we produce more diesel than gasoline but our specialty business tends to benefit from higher diesel prices as it's an alternative for solvents and light blue. With product inventories at or below their historical averages, the fundamentals continue to point to healthy margins in the near to medium term.

儘管我們預計今年稍後會出現正常的季節性，但我們仍然對未來的利潤環境持建設性態度。在燃料方面，銷量和利潤率均較上一季改善。儘管冬季通常季節性疲軟，尤其是汽油，但我們仍然看到強勁的餾分油利潤。我們不僅生產比汽油更多的柴油，而且我們的特殊業務往往受益於柴油價格上漲，因為它是溶劑和淺藍色的替代品。由於產品庫存處於或低於歷史平均水平，基本面繼續表明中短期內利潤率將保持健康。

Moving to Slide 8. Our Performance Brands business had another solid quarter, generating $13.2 million of adjusted EBITDA. This was up $1 million from the previous quarter. We typically see some seasonality in this business as big box retailers manage year-end inventory levels. Our Performance Brands team is focused on continuing to manage our costs, deliver high-quality products to our customers and optimize our product mix to find the highest netback channels across our branded products, and we're excited about the opportunities ahead to continue to improve this business as we have during the year.

轉到投影片 8。我們的績效品牌業務又一個季度表現強勁，調整後 EBITDA 達到 1,320 萬美元。這比上一季增加了 100 萬美元。由於大型零售商管理年終庫存水平，我們通常會看到該業務存在一些季節性。我們的績效品牌團隊專注於繼續管理我們的成本，為客戶提供高品質的產品並優化我們的產品組合，以找到我們品牌產品的最高淨收益管道，我們對未來繼續改進的機會感到興奮這項業務正如我們今年所做的那樣。

Industrial demand that we have mentioned before, continues to be strong, especially in mining and marine applications, and we think these end users will continue to be tailwinds for this business.

我們之前提到的工業需求仍然強勁，特別是在採礦和海洋應用領域，我們認為這些最終用戶將繼續成為該業務的推動力。

Moving to our Montana business. You can see on Slide 10 that we generated $38.2 million of adjusted EBITDA in the quarter. Operations at our legacy asphalt plant were excellent, and we have seen heavy Canadian crude differentials widen near the end of the quarter and into the fourth quarter.

轉向我們的蒙大拿州業務。您可以在幻燈片 10 中看到，我們在本季產生了 3820 萬美元的調整後 EBITDA。我們的舊瀝青廠運作狀況良好，我們看到加拿大原油價差在本季末和第四季擴大。

We operated the plant at nearly 12,000 barrels per day of production, which has been fairly consistent after the large turnaround last year that separated our renewables business and legacy specialty asphalt business.

我們工廠的日產量接近 12,000 桶，去年我們的再生能源業務和傳統特種瀝青業務發生重大轉變後，這一產量一直相當穩定。

At Montana Renewables, Todd spent a lot of time on the previously disclosed steam system, and I will briefly touch on that again. We have 4 hydrogen plants at the Great Fall site that supply hydrogen to both the legacy plant and the renewable diesel plant. 3 of those were preexisting and we constructed the fourth as part of the MRL construction and conversion. This redundancy has been important as we've been at least been able to run at reduced rates while the fourth plant has been down.

在蒙大拿州再生能源公司，托德花了很多時間研究之前披露的蒸汽系統，我將再次簡短地談論這一點。我們在 Great Fall 基地有 4 座氫氣工廠，為傳統工廠和再生柴油工廠供應氫氣。其中 3 個是預先存在的，我們建造了第四個，作為 MRL 建設和轉換的一部分。這種冗餘非常重要，因為我們至少能夠在第四家工廠關閉時以較低的速度運作。

With the steam drum replacement now mechanically complete, we expect to begin bringing that hydrogen plant back into service at about 1 week from now. And we're also on track to complete the turnaround that was pulled forward, and we're excited to pick up where we left off in July and fully demonstrating the uniqueness of Montana Renewables as we expect to run at full 12,000 barrels per day through December and going forward with most of that being untreated feed. We'll start with the untreated feed that was on the books for the past couple of months, and we expect to be back in the market in the new year, adding new regionally available supply.

隨著蒸汽鼓更換現已機械完成，我們預計將在大約 1 週後開始使該制氫裝置恢復運作。我們也有望完成先前的轉變，我們很高興能夠繼續 7 月份的工作，並充分展示蒙大拿州可再生能源公司的獨特性，因為我們預計到 2020 年將達到每天 12,000 桶的產量。12 月以及今後大部分飼料都是未經處理的。我們將從過去幾個月記錄的未經處理的飼料開始，我們預計將在新的一年重返市場，增加新的區域可用供應。

With that, I'll turn it back to Todd for closing comments.

至此，我將把它轉回托德以徵求結束意見。

Thanks, Vince. Earlier this quarter, we announced that after a thorough search, Vince and I found his successor as CFO, and I'll introduce David momentarily. But before that, I want to thank Vince for everything that he's done over the past few years at Calumet. And by the time of our next call, David will be in the seat.

謝謝，文斯。本季度早些時候，我們宣布，經過徹底的搜尋，文斯和我找到了他的財務長繼任者，我將立即介紹大衛。但在此之前，我要感謝文斯過去幾年在 Calumet 所做的一切。當我們下次通話時，大衛將坐在座位上。

Vince joined Calumet in August of 2020. Our stock was around $2.50. We had a material weakness in our financial reporting, and we are only shortly removed from a troubling SAP implementation. Vince is encouraged tenacity and leadership, we're Paramount and fixing all of the above, and he also led us through a resegmentation, which brought transparency to Calumet by aligning the way we report the business with the way we run it.

Vince 於 2020 年 8 月加入 Calumet。我們的股票價格約為 2.50 美元。我們的財務報告有重大缺陷，而且我們很快就擺脫了麻煩的 SAP 實施。 Vince 鼓勵堅韌和領導力，我們是最重要的，正在解決上述所有問題，他還領導我們進行了重新細分，透過使我們報告業務的方式與我們經營業務的方式保持一致，為Calumet 帶來了透明度。

Vince and I (technical difficulty) day 1. He brings 20 years of experience advising companies on corporate financial matters, including M&A and capital markets transactions in relevant industries. David was most recently with Goldman Sachs, and he has hit the ground running as he leads the exploration of potential MRL monetization, and Braley prepares to step in fully as CFO on January 1. Vince, congratulations and thank you. And David, welcome to Calumet. With today's news and game-changing opportunities ahead of us, it's an incredibly exciting time to be joining this company. With that, I'll hand the call back to the operator for questions. Operator?

Vince 和我（技術難度）第 1 天。他擁有 20 年為公司提供企業財務事務諮詢的經驗，包括相關行業的併購和資本市場交易。 David 最近在高盛工作，在領導 MRL 貨幣化潛力的探索過程中，他已經開始了工作，而 Braley 準備於 1 月 1 日全面出任首席財務官。Vince，恭喜你，謝謝你。大衛，歡迎來到卡魯梅特。今天的新聞和改變遊戲規則的機會擺在我們面前，加入這家公司是一個令人難以置信的激動人心的時刻。這樣，我會將電話轉給接線生詢問問題。操作員？

(Operator Instructions) The first question today comes from Roger Read with Wells Fargo.

（操作員說明）今天的第一個問題來自富國銀行的羅傑·里德（Roger Read）。

Yes. Congratulations on the announcement of the conversion to the C-corp. I think that it will be something that's been looked for hope for and will be well warmly received.

是的。恭喜您宣布轉為 C 型企業。我認為這將是人們一直期待並受到熱烈歡迎的事情。

On the operational side, the specialty margins, you discussed them in the presentation. And if you look at the chart, are we essentially seeing specialty margins normalize here? Is that the right way to think about it at plus or minus $60? Or should we read into further strength based on the crude price moves and the comment about October price increases?

在營運方面，即專業利潤，您在演示中討論了它們。如果你看一下圖表，我們基本上是否看到專業利潤在這裡正常化？這是考慮正負 60 美元的正確方法嗎？或者我們應該根據原油價格走勢和 10 月價格上漲的評論來解讀進一步的強勢？

Roger, this is Scott. I would answer it with 2 parts. I think overarching, we've seen some tapering and normalization of specialty margins that have come off all-time records, right, over the past year. So there is some tapering down of specialty margins. I think what occurred though, in Q3 was a little bit magnified on some margin compression as crude spiked up and a lot of our operational issues created some additional headwind. So as we think about this quarter here in Q4, we've got a lot of our increases through depending on how crude shakes out, but we should see some improvement in fourth quarter to more normalized margins above Q3 results.

羅傑，這是史考特。我會用兩個部分來回答。我認為總體而言，我們看到專業利潤率在過去一年中出現了一些縮減和正常化，這些利潤已經打破了歷史記錄，對吧。因此，特種產品的利潤率有所下降。我認為，隨著原油價格飆升，以及我們的許多營運問題造成了一些額外的阻力，第三季發生的情況在一些利潤率壓縮方面被放大了一點。因此，當我們在第四季度思考這個季度時，我們的成長很大程度上取決於原油的波動情況，但我們應該會看到第四季度的一些改善，利潤率比第三季度的結果更加正常化。

Okay. And then on the MRL, the kind of what happened in the third quarter, the drum issue and all. I was wondering if we could get a little more clarity on the period at which you did achieve the $1.25 to $1.45 margin. Sort of like what did you see in there? How well did the unit run? And is there upside from there if you're running really well, find the right markets, as you mentioned, whether it's Canada or somewhere else? Just trying to help understand like the real performance of the business when it isn't dealing with start-up issues.

好的。然後是 MRL，第三季發生的事情，鼓問題等等。我想知道我們是否可以更清楚地了解您實現 1.25 美元至 1.45 美元保證金的時期。有點像你在那裡看到了什麼？該單位運作情況如何？如果你經營得很好，找到合適的市場，正如你所提到的，無論是加拿大還是其他地方，還有什麼好處嗎？只是試著幫助了解企業在不處理啟動問題時的真實績效。

Roger, it's Bruce. I think the July performance was representative in terms of most of the things we look for and we ran well. We didn't run all the way full in July. So actually, as we get span up again, you're going to see that margin improve because we're going to spread the fixed costs on a unit basis, you'll see the margin improved. And then in terms of the implied optimization, the way we've got our product supply agreements set, we've got a distribution optimization that the customers benefit from. In return, we've got a very fully priced product. So that's kind of a synergistic partnership with them.

羅傑，我是布魯斯。我認為 7 月的表現在我們尋找的大部分內容方面都具有代表性，而且我們運行得很好。七月份我們並沒有一路跑滿。所以實際上，當我們再次擴大規模時，你會看到利潤率提高，因為我們將以單位分攤固定成本，你會看到利潤率提高。然後就隱含的最佳化而言，我們制定產品供應協議的方式，我們已經實現了客戶受益的分銷優化。作為回報，我們得到了價格非常齊全的產品。所以這是與他們的一種協同合作關係。

The next question comes from Neil Mehta with Goldman Sachs.

下一個問題來自高盛的尼爾·梅塔。

And Vince, congratulations. David, welcome, and congrats on the news about the conversion. I think liquidity has been long been a focus area for investors around the stock. The first question is just building on the lost opportunity profit in the quarter. As you think about the downtime and if you were to build back some of these issues, do you have a sense of how much EBITDA would have been higher in the absence of those issues?

還有文斯，恭喜你。大衛，歡迎並祝賀有關轉變的消息。我認為流動性長期以來一直是該股投資人的焦點。第一個問題只是建立在本季失去的機會利潤的基礎上。當您考慮停機時間時，如果您要修復其中一些問題，您是否知道如果沒有這些問題，EBITDA 會高出多少？

Yes. We said about a little more than $50 million is what we think we lost in the third quarter, Neil. This is Todd, by the way. Thanks for the question. The 2 events, 300,000 barrels in specialty, if you look at our margins, routine margins in specialty, that's probably a little over $20 million of lost opportunity, and then the same thing for MRL, right, 2 months of cutback. So if we look at July and say that we should have had July going forward at a minimum, that's where we get the other 30 plus. So in total, $50 million of lost opportunity for the quarter, which is disappointing but also reminds us of the potential that we have ahead of us.

是的。我們說過，我們認為第三季的損失約為 5000 萬美元多一點，尼爾。順便說一句，這是托德。謝謝你的提問。這 2 場活動，30 萬桶特種產品，如果你看看我們的利潤，特種產品的常規利潤，這可能會損失超過 2000 萬美元的機會，然後 MRL 也是如此，對吧，削減 2 個月。因此，如果我們看看 7 月並說我們至少應該有 7 月的進展，那麼我們就會得到另外 30 多個。因此，本季總共損失了 5,000 萬美元的機會，這令人失望，但也提醒我們前方的潛力。

I know it's tricky to talk about the transaction. So Todd to pass on this one. But I was just curious on tax implications to the extent you are a Calumet older and you own MLP. It sounds like the way this is designed, there won't be a meaningful tax impact, but can you confirm that? And then as we think about you as a cash taxpayer, I would imagine the NOL will carry with this transaction, and therefore, I wouldn't imagine you'd be paying cash taxes for a while. But any thoughts on the tax side would be great that you can understood.

我知道談論這筆交易很棘手。所以托德要傳承這一點。但我只是對稅收影響感到好奇，如果你是 Calumet 的老一輩並且擁有 MLP。聽起來這樣的設計方式不會對稅收產生有意義的影響，但你能證實這一點嗎？然後，當我們將您視為現金納稅人時，我想 NOL 將承擔這筆交易，因此，我認為您暫時不會繳納現金稅。但如果您能夠理解稅收方面的任何想法，那就太好了。

No, I'll comment on it a little bit. I'll be careful. Like normal, you're all over the topic, and I think you hit on a couple of the big ones. So on the call, I mentioned the GP will make a meaningful tax cash payment that depreciable basis step-up actually gets shared across to all shareholders. There's some tax arbitrage things like passive loss carryforwards, like you mentioned, will flow into investor bases at conversion and be taxed to capital gains rates rather than ordinary income.

不，我會稍微評論一下。我會小心的。像往常一樣，你已經討論了這個話題，我認為你談到了幾個重要的話題。因此，在電話會議上，我提到普通合夥人將支付一筆有意義的現金稅款，折舊基礎的增加實際上會分享給所有股東。正如您所提到的，有一些稅收套利，例如被動損失結轉，將在轉換時流入投資者基礎，並按資本利得率而不是普通收入徵稅。

The other tax impact that it's hard to quantify, but could be meaningful is the increase in price between now and conversion as new investors enter will also result in a step-up in depreciable tax basis. It will be helpful to all investors. So I'll probably stop there, but I think you're right, as a whole to say, for most, this should not be a negative tax event. In fact, it should be very, very positive tax event for the great majority of our unitholders.

另一個難以量化但可能有意義的稅收影響是，從現在到轉換之間的價格上漲，隨著新投資者的進入，也將導致應折舊稅基的增加。這將對所有投資者有所幫助。所以我可能會就此打住，但我認為你是對的，總的來說，對於大多數人來說，這不應該是一個負面的稅收事件。事實上，對於我們絕大多數單位持有者來說，這應該是非常非常正面的稅務事件。

Next question comes from Manav Gupta with UBS.

下一個問題來自瑞銀集團 (UBS) 的 Manav Gupta。

Help us understand a little bit about the restart process here. Looks like you're firmly on course to get the operations fixed at Montana. Should we assume that 1Q '24, you run all out, and that kind of gives us that $1.30 or $1.40 EBITDA per gallon margin, should we be watching that as the quarter where everything comes together for you in terms of RD.

在這裡幫助我們了解一些有關重啟過程的資訊。看起來您正在堅定地致力於修復蒙大拿州的運作。如果我們假設 24 年第一季度，你全力以赴，這會給我們帶來每加侖 1.30 美元或 1.40 美元的 EBITDA 利潤，我們是否應該將這一季度視為 RD 方面一切都齊備的季度。

Manav, it's Bruce. We're going to plan to be running full from, let's just say, December 1, so that you get a solid month, another proof point, and then we'll stay full. What we've got to do, though, the steam system repair work was an unplanned slowdown. So we've got a certain quantity of clean feed still backed up in inventory that we're going to have to pull through. So the $1.25 to $1.45 guidance is for dirty feed. And we've got a blended situation for a little while.

馬納夫，我是布魯斯。我們計劃從 12 月 1 日開始就滿員運行，這樣你就能得到一個充實的一個月，另一個證據點，然後我們就會保持滿員狀態。然而，我們要做的，是蒸汽系統的維修工作意外放緩。因此，我們的庫存中仍然有一定數量的清潔飼料，我們必須將其消耗掉。因此 1.25 美元至 1.45 美元的指導值是針對髒飼料的。我們有一段時間處於混合的情況。

Perfect. Quick follow-up. Yes, please go on.

完美的。快速跟進。是的，請繼續。

Well, I was going to say, so if you look at July, we had about 70% dirty, 30% clean. The actual performance, if I recall correctly, it was $1.23 on a blended basis. So right at the kind of low end of the range. What you should look for is the spread between perhaps RBD, veg oil and crude veg oil in the market as a proxy for what happens when we blend.

好吧，我想說的是，如果你看看 7 月份，我們大約有 70% 是髒的，30% 是乾淨​​的。如果我沒記錯的話，實際性能在混合基礎上為 1.23 美元。所以就處於該範圍的低端。您應該關注的是市場上 RBD、植物油和原油植物油之間的價差，作為我們混合時發生的情況的代理。

Perfect. A quick follow-up is you already have a SaaS transition strategy in place and expansion. I understand you're waiting for the full confirmation of the DOE loan, but help us walk through this SaaS transition strategy. And when it's all over, how much SaaS could you be looking to produce in your system?

完美的。快速跟進是您已經制定了 SaaS 轉型策略並進行擴展。我知道您正在等待能源部貸款的完整確認，但請幫助我們完成此 SaaS 過渡策略。當一切結束後，您希望在系統中產生多少 SaaS？

We're advertising, and we have been for a couple of years, 230 million gallons a year set at the moment based upon the engineering progress that's looking conservative. There's a high case at 300 million gallons that we think is probably reasonably achievable. This is something that we'll be reporting back to you on as we go forward.

我們在做廣告，幾年來我們一直在做廣告，目前根據看起來保守的工程進度設定每年 2.3 億加侖。我們認為 3 億加侖的上限是可以合理實現的。我們將在後續工作中向您報告此情況。

Next question comes from Amit Dayal with HC Wainwright.

下一個問題來自 Amit Dayal 和 HC Wainwright。

My other questions have been asked. Just on the time line for the monetization. With respect to this going to C-Corp, how does that impact, you're saying 2Q '24 for the monetization within 9 months to complete the C-Corp transition. So do these have bearing on each other in terms of how we can move forward on the monetization?

我的其他問題也被問到了。就在貨幣化的時間線上。關於轉向 C 型企業，這會產生什麼影響，您說的是 2024 年第二季的 9 個月內實現貨幣化，以完成 C 型企業的轉型。那麼，這些因素對於我們如何推動貨幣化有相互影響嗎？

Amit, it's Todd. It's a good question. They could. I think a lot of that's driven by what type of market we're seeing at that point in time, right? The 9 months on conversions and outside date, it could be faster than that. If you think about what needs to get done, I guess, starting now or very shortly, we start doing the documentation.

阿米特，我是托德。這是一個好問題。他們可以。我認為這很大程度上是由我們當時看到的市場類型所驅動的，對嗎？ 9 個月的轉換和外部日期，可能會比這更快。如果您考慮需要完成什麼，我想，從現在開始或很快，我們就開始編寫文件。

We're getting ready. We're signing the official document that then transitions us into filing the proxy, the S-4 and receiving a shareholder vote. So it could be faster than 9 months. 9 months is the outside date. I think the committee and the GP agreed to have a firm date so that there was certainty that the conversion would happen by a certain point in time, but it certainly can be pulled up. So I think we'll get a better view of that process once we're in it in that timing.

我們正在準備。我們正在簽署正式文件，然後我們將提交代理書 S-4 並接受股東投票。所以可能會比 9 個月快。 9個月是外部日期。我認為委員會和普通合夥人同意有一個確定的日期，這樣就可以確定轉換會在某個時間點發生，但它肯定可以被取消。所以我認為一旦我們在那個時間點進入這個過程，我們就會更了解這個過程。

Obviously, Q1 is going to tell us a lot at Montana Renewables too, and we're pretty confident about that, excited about that quarter. And then we're going to assess how the market looks. And I think it will be a combination of those 3 things that really drives ultimate timing. But at this point, we don't see any time -- any reason to change anything. We think these are all additive. We think that adding more investors that potentially would have had to hold out for an MRL spin-off can now invest in Calumet and start to get inside the company and learn more about us. I know there's a lot of people out there who are very interested and excited in MRL itself. There's been a lot of interest in that as a stand-alone public company.

顯然，第一季也會告訴我們蒙大拿再生能源公司的許多訊息，我們對此非常有信心，對該季度感到興奮。然後我們將評估市場的情況。我認為這三件事的結合將真正推動最終的時機。但目前，我們看不到任何時間、任何理由改變任何事。我們認為這些都是累加的。我們認為，增加更多可能不得不堅持 MRL 分拆的投資者現在可以投資 Calumet，並開始進入公司內部並更多地了解我們。我知道有很多人對 MRL 本身非常感興趣和興奮。作為一家獨立的上市公司，人們對此很感興趣。

So I think as we look forward, that continues to be the planning base. And hopefully, we'll get some of those investors to come in and take a look at us sooner than they otherwise would have.

所以我認為，當我們展望未來時，這仍然是規劃基礎。希望我們能比其他方式更早讓一些投資者進來看看我們。

Understood, Todd. And just in relation to that, are there any unknowns in this transition process that could maybe delay the process or cause any sort of challenges, I guess?

明白了，托德。與此相關的是，我想，在這個過渡過程中是否存在任何可能延遲該過程或引起任何類型挑戰的未知因素？

I don't think so. I say that we will head just because we haven't done it before. But we've got a lot of advisers and legal counsel that has, and I think there's a pretty clear path for these types of things. So as I look at the plan, it appears pretty straightforward. There's a lot to do, certainly. But I don't see a specific event or a turning point or anything like that, that would leave us questioning the ultimate outcome.

我不這麼認為。我說我們要去只是因為我們以前沒有這樣做過。但我們有很多顧問和法律顧問，我認為這類事情有一個非常明確的路徑。因此，當我查看該計劃時，它看起來非常簡單。當然，還有很多事情要做。但我沒有看到任何具體事件或轉折點或類似的事情，這會讓我們質疑最終結果。

The next question comes from Jason Gabelman with TD Talens.

下一個問題來自 TD Talens 的 Jason Gabelman。

I wanted to first ask on the MAX a expansion project. I think previously, you had discussed that the growth CapEx was not tied to the DOE loan. It sounds now like they are kind of tied. So if that's changed, you discussed -- can you discuss why that's changed? And then additionally, as you've been going out to customers to contract the staff available in the expansion case, are you confident or do you have enough confidence to provide some sort of earnings outlook on that project?

我想先問一下關於MAX的擴建計畫。我認為之前，您曾討論過成長資本支出與能源部貸款無關。現在聽起來他們好像是綁在一起的。因此，如果情況發生了變化，您可以討論為什麼會發生變化嗎？另外，由於您一直在與客戶簽訂擴張案例中可用的員工合同，您是否有信心或有足夠的信心提供該項目的某種盈利前景？

Let me start off, Jason, it's Todd. And then (inaudible) plan to add on. On the DOE question, what we've said consistently is we don't want to take on additional debt to do MAX s, and that continues to be the case. What I made a comment in the earnings call around we'll be ready to go when DOE approves financing. What we're doing there is we're assuming that that's going to be the next opportunity for financing. There's certainly other opportunities for financing. I think you're probably referencing in the past where we've said, hey, as part of a monetization proceeds could be used for MaxAtexpansion, those types of things. So all we're doing here is simply suggesting that DOE, we would predict that DOE is sooner on the time line, although, obviously, we can't guarantee that, don't know that. But sitting on a time line than ultimate monetization.

讓我開始吧，傑森，我是陶德。然後（聽不清楚）計劃添加。關於能源部的問題，我們一貫表示，我們不想承擔額外的債務來完成 MAX 項目，而且情況仍然如此。我在財報電話會議上發表的評論是，當能源部批准融資時，我們將做好準備。我們所做的就是假設這將是下一個融資機會。當然還有其他融資機會。我想你可能指的是我們過去說過的，嘿，作為貨幣化收益的一部分可以用於 MaxAtexpansion 之類的東西。因此，我們在這裡所做的只是建議能源部，我們預測能源部會在時間表上更快，儘管顯然我們不能保證這一點，也不知道這一點。但與最終貨幣化相比，時間還不夠。

I think the bigger point is we don't want to take on additional debt to do Maxs. We made that commitment when we went and did the 28, and we're going to hold to that.

我認為更重要的一點是我們不想承擔額外的債務來完成 Maxs。我們在參加 28 場比賽時就做出了這項承諾，我們將堅持這項承諾。

Got it. And I don't know if Bruce wants to.

知道了。我不知道布魯斯是否願意。

Yes. The second part of your question revolved around product placement. I'll give you 3 thoughts. And first, we read this sort of steady stream of announcements of people signing up for billions and millions of gallons of staff, which may or may not ever be available in the market. That's a backdrop. The situation for us is we're the largest of the only 2 producers on this side of the world. And we could sell all of the staff to 12 different people tomorrow at the drop of a hat. So you're in the very early stages of what's going to be practically a vertical evolution for this new industry.

是的。您問題的第二部分涉及植入式廣告。我給你3個想法。首先，我們看到了這種源源不絕的公告，人們簽約數十億和數百萬加侖的員工，這些公告可能會也可能不會在市場上出現。那是一個背景。我們的情況是，我們是世界這一邊僅有的兩家生產商中最大的一家。明天我們可以立即將所有員工賣給 12 個不同的人。因此，您正處於這個新產業實際上垂直演進的早期階段。

So the third thought is we're the low-cost provider. No matter what happens, we're going to stand at the top of the competitive rankings on this. We had the lucky accident of having the hardware to recover the staff at a relatively low capital cost. Everybody else is going to have to build that. So we're there already. We're not first. World Energy was first. We're second, we're advantaged, and we're planning to stay advantaged.

所以第三個想法是我們是低成本提供者。無論發生什麼，我們都將在這方面站在競爭排名的前面。我們很幸運，能夠以相對較低的資本成本擁有硬體來恢復員工。其他人都必須建造它。所以我們已經到了。我們不是第一。世界能源是第一。我們是第二，我們有優勢，我們計劃保持優勢。

Got it. And maybe 2 quick clarifications on those comments. First, timing around the DOE loan. I know it continues to shift down, and it's always tough to guess when the government is going to move forward on something. And then on the SAP economics, where you're seeing those price premiums come in relative to renewable diesel. And I'll leave it there.

知道了。也許還可以對這些評論進行 2 次快速澄清。首先，圍繞能源部貸款的時機。我知道它會繼續下降，而且總是很難猜測政府何時會在某些事情上取得進展。然後從 SAP 經濟角度來看，您會看到相對於再生柴油的價格溢價。我會把它留在那裡。

The industry watchers seem to be centering on about $1 to $1.50 gallon premium to RD. That's substantially a European circumstance right now. But I think we could broadly suggest that it's going to be similar in North America.

行業觀察家似乎關注的是每加侖比 RD 溢價約 1 至 1.50 美元。這基本上是歐洲目前的情況。但我認為我們可以廣泛地建議北美也會出現類似情況。

Anybody with an R&D platform should be able to fish out about 15% or 20% of it as SAF. So those in our mind are together, they're going to have to are together through the nest of regulatory support mechanisms, including the new SaaS blenders tax credit. And we think that's an appropriate spread, which is going to reflect an industry average player. I'm going to emphasize that we're doing better than that.

任何擁有研發平台的人都應該能夠從中撈出大約 15% 或 20% 作為 SAF。因此，我們心目中的這些人必須團結在一起，他們必須透過一系列監管支援機制團結在一起，包括新的 SaaS 攪拌機稅收抵免。我們認為這是一個適當的價差，這將反映行業平均值。我要強調的是，我們做得比這更好。

The way the trade flow is set up is also probably going to contribute because there are feedstock yield differences. There are catalyst field differences. There's operational severity. And so if you think about refinery complexity and LP, multivariable decision-making, you'll be thinking the right way about Saas made from hydro process they like us.

由於原料產量有差異，貿易流的建立方式也可能有所貢獻。催化劑領域存在差異。存在操作的嚴重性。因此，如果您考慮煉油廠的複雜性和 LP、多變量決策，您將以正確的方式思考他們喜歡我們的透過水力工藝製成的 Saas。

I'll contrast that with something that's very, very linear. If your model is you buy ethanol, you convert almost all of it into SaaS, you don't have all of that optimization flexibility. So our dependence on any premium in the market is different to a new entrant that lacks flexibility.

我將把它與非常非常線性的東西進行對比。如果您的型號是購買乙醇，那麼您幾乎將所有乙醇轉換為 SaaS，那麼您就沒有所有的最佳化彈性。因此，我們對市場溢價的依賴與缺乏彈性的新進入者不同。

Got it. And then on the DOE loan timing?

知道了。那麼能源部貸款的時間安排呢？

That's up to the DOE. We're very pleased with the relationship that we've established over the last 1.5 years. It is actively engaged. We are in underwriting, but I'm not going to forecast their eventual decision or their timing.

這取決於能源部。我們對過去 1.5 年建立的關係感到非常滿意。它正在積極參與。我們正在進行承銷，但我不會預測他們的最終決定或時間表。

This concludes our question-and-answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Brad McMurray for any closing remarks.

我們的問答環節到此結束。我想將會議轉回布拉德·麥克默里（Brad McMurray）發表閉幕詞。

Thanks. On behalf of the management team here in the room and really on behalf of all of Calumet, we'd like to thank you for your time and your interest this morning. Have a great end of the week and this concludes the call. Thanks.

謝謝。我們謹代表在座的管理團隊，並真正代表 Calumet 全體人員，感謝您今天早上的寶貴時間和關注。祝您週末愉快，電話會議到此結束。謝謝。

The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

會議現已結束。感謝您參加今天的演講。您現在可以斷開連線。