Civitas Resources Inc (CIVI) 2023 Q3 法說會逐字稿

完整原文

使用警語:中文譯文來源為 Google 翻譯,僅供參考,實際內容請以英文原文為主

  • Operator

    Operator

  • Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. My name is Bhavish, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the Civitas Resources' Third Quarter 2023 Earnings Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) I will now hand the call over to John Wren, Director of Investor Relations. You may begin your conference.

    女士們先生們,謝謝你們的支持。我叫 Bhavish,今天我將擔任你們的會議操作員。現在,我歡迎大家參加 Civitas Resources 2023 年第三季財報電話會議。 (操作員指示)我現在將電話轉給投資者關係總監約翰·雷恩 (John Wren)。您可以開始您的會議了。

  • John Wren - Director of Finance, Planning & IR

    John Wren - Director of Finance, Planning & IR

  • Thanks, operator, and good morning, everyone, and thanks for joining us. I'm joined today by our CEO, Chris Doyle; CFO, Marianella Foschi; and COO, Hodge Walker.

    謝謝接線員,大家早安,謝謝您加入我們。今天我們的執行長 Chris Doyle 也加入了我的行列。財務長瑪麗內拉·福斯基;和營運長霍奇·沃克。

  • I hope you've reviewed our earnings release, 10-Q and slide deck, all of which are available on our website. We will make forward-looking statements, which are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from our projections. Please read our full disclosures regarding forward-looking statements in our 10-Q and other SEC filings.

    我希望您已經閱讀了我們的收益發布、10-Q 和幻燈片,所有這些都可以在我們的網站上找到。我們將做出前瞻性陳述,這些陳述存在風險和不確定性,可能導致實際結果與我們的預測有重大差異。請閱讀我們在 10-Q 和其他 SEC 文件中關於前瞻性陳述的完整揭露。

  • We may also refer to certain non-GAAP financial metrics. Reconciliations to certain non-GAAP metrics can be found in yesterday's release and our SEC filings.

    我們也可能參考某些非公認會計準則財務指標。某些非 GAAP 指標的調整可以在昨天的新聞稿和我們向 SEC 提交的文件中找到。

  • After Chris's brief prepared remarks, we'll all be available to take your questions. As always, please limit your time to one question and one follow-up as this allows us to get to more of your questions this morning.

    在克里斯簡短的準備好的演講之後,我們將隨時回答您的問題。像往常一樣,請將您的時間限制在一個問題和一個後續行動上,這樣我們就可以在今天早上回答您的更多問題。

  • Now I'll turn the call over to Chris.

    現在我將把電話轉給克里斯。

  • M. Christopher Doyle - President, CEO & Director

    M. Christopher Doyle - President, CEO & Director

  • Thanks, John, and good morning, everyone. The team once again delivered strong results this quarter and our new Permian and legacy DJ businesses are performing well against our expectations. Our results continue to prove that an E&P company with high-quality assets can return significant cash to shareholders while building scale through disciplined accretive transactions. Our recently announced Vencer acquisition, which should close as expected in January, further strengthens our ability to generate free cash and return it to shareholders. This deal is part of several recent steps to transform our company, adding high-quality scale and further diversifying our portfolio. Simply put, we're more competitive and more durable enterprise today.

    謝謝約翰,大家早安。該團隊在本季度再次取得了強勁的業績,我們新的 Permian 和傳統 DJ 業務的表現超出了我們的預期。我們的結果繼續證明,擁有優質資產的勘探與生產公司可以向股東返還大量現金,同時透過嚴格的增值交易擴大規模。我們最近宣布的 Vencer 收購將於 1 月按預期完成,這將進一步增強我們產生自由現金並將其返還給股東的能力。這筆交易是我們公司最近幾項轉型舉措的一部分,旨在擴大高品質規模並進一步實現我們的投資組合多元化。簡而言之,我們今天是更具競爭力、更持久的企業。

  • We recently celebrated our 2-year anniversary, which gave us an opportunity to reflect on what we've accomplished as a company and what we've delivered for our shareholders. In 2022, we paid $6.29 per share in dividends. In 2023, that number will grow to $7.60, add an additional $320 million of buybacks that have already been completed and we will return nearly $1 billion to shareholders in 2023 alone. That's 15% of our current market cap in 1 year. Our strong shareholder return program will continue to grow in 2024. At strip, we expect the dividend will increase roughly 10% furthering our track record of delivering 1 of the most reliable and significant dividends in our industry.

    我們最近慶祝了成立兩週年,這讓我們有機會反思我們作為一家公司所取得的成就以及我們為股東所做的一切。 2022 年,我們支付每股 6.29 美元的股息。到 2023 年,這一數字將增加至 7.60 美元,再加上已經完成的 3.2 億美元回購,光是 2023 年我們就將向股東返還近 10 億美元。這相當於 1 年內我們目前市值的 15%。我們強大的股東回報計畫將在 2024 年繼續成長。在脫衣舞行業,我們預計股息將增加約 10%,進一步鞏固我們提供業內最可靠、最重要股息之一的記錄。

  • We've accomplished all of this while maintaining an unwavering commitment to our strong balance sheet. Our plan to sell about $300 million in non-core assets is progressing well, and we're on track to meet our mid-2024 target. Proceeds will help us reduce debt while also high-grading our portfolio. We continue to target 3 quarters of return of leverage longer term at mid-cycle prices and plan to be below 1 turn by the end of 2024, assuming $80 oil. We firmly believe that maintaining a strong capital structure is key to building a sustainable business that can deliver top shareholder returns.

    我們在實現所有這些目標的同時,堅定不移地致力於保持強勁的資產負債表。我們出售約 3 億美元非核心資產的計畫進展順利,我們預計將實現 2024 年中期的目標。收益將幫助我們減少債務,同時提高我們的投資組合評級。我們繼續以中期週期價格為長期槓桿回報目標,並計劃在 2024 年底低於 1 週(假設油價為 80 美元)。我們堅信,維持強大的資本結構是建立永續發展業務、為股東帶來最高回報的關鍵。

  • Let's talk about integration. Since this summer, our focus has been on integrating the new Permian assets into Civitas and standing up a new team. We've built a proven Permian leadership team with decades of experience leading capital-efficient development programs across the basin. In addition, I continue to be impressed by the talented members of the Tap Rock and Hibernia teams, many of whom are joining Civitas. Their dedication to maintaining safe, continuous and efficient operations has allowed us to accelerate operational handover in the Midland Basin to the end of this month. That's over 2 months earlier than our original plan.

    我們來談談整合。自今年夏天以來,我們的重點一直是將新的二疊紀資產整合到 Civitas 並建立一個新團隊。我們建立了一支久經考驗的二疊紀領導團隊,擁有數十年領導整個盆地資本效率開發專案的經驗。此外,Tap Rock 和 Hibernia 團隊的才華橫溢的成員仍然給我留下了深刻的印象,他們中的許多人都加入了 Civitas。他們致力於維持安全、持續和高效的運營,使我們能夠加快米德蘭盆地的運營移交速度,直至本月底。這比我們原計劃提前了2個多月。

  • Similarly in the Delaware, we're on track to accelerate the operational handover by over a month. Bottom line, come January 1, Tap Rock and Hibernia operations will be fully integrated into Civitas. Our team is now finalizing plans for the Vencer integration and optimizing our 2024 development program. As always, we will be guided by a proven business model, which focuses on maximizing free cash flow and improving cash-on-cash returns.

    同樣,在特拉華州,我們預計將營運移交速度加快一個多月。最重要的是,到 1 月 1 日,Tap Rock 和 Hibernia 業務將完全整合到 Civitas 中。我們的團隊目前正在敲定 Vencer 整合計畫並優化我們的 2024 年開發計畫。一如既往,我們將遵循經過驗證的商業模式,重點是最大化自由現金流和提高現金回報率。

  • Now let me quickly summarize our third quarter results. Total company production was in line with expectations in the third quarter averaging 235,000 BOE per day and 114,000 barrels of oil per day. In the DJ, volumes were 168,000 BOE per day in the upper half of our original guidance range. We continue to push the limits of operational efficiency here in the DJ, recently drilling 6, 4-mile laterals and an average spud to spud of 9 days. It's a new company record. Importantly, the wells came in approximately 10% below predrill cost estimates.

    現在讓我快速總結一下我們第三季的業績。第三季公司總產量符合預期,平均每天 235,000 桶油當量和每天 114,000 桶石油。在 DJ 中,成交量為每天 168,000 桶油當量,處於我們最初指導範圍的上半部分。我們繼續突破 DJ 營運效率的極限,最近鑽了 6 條 4 英里的支線,平均開鑽時間為 9 天。這是公司的新紀錄。重要的是,這些井的成本比預鑽成本估計低約 10%。

  • In the Permian, we produced 67,000 BOE per day for the quarter, which I note only reflects volumes after the transaction closed on August 2. Focusing in on August and September, Permian production averaged 101,000 BOE per day. We closed the quarter strong, averaging approximately 111,000 BOE per day and 56,000 barrels of oil per day. Importantly, we remain on track to exit this year within our original Permian 5-month guidance range.

    在二疊紀盆地,本季我們每天生產67,000 桶油當量,我注意到這僅反映了8 月2 日交易結束後的產量。重點關注8 月和9 月,二疊紀盆地平均產量為每天101,000桶油當量。我們以強勁的表現結束了本季度,平均每天生產約 111,000 桶油當量,每天生產 56,000 桶石油。重要的是,我們今年仍有望退出原來的二疊紀 5 個月指導範圍。

  • Company-wide, we continue to target a year-end exit rate of about 280,000 BOE per day and have raised the midpoint of our full year production guidance. Capital investments in the third quarter were approximately $430 million, consistent with expectations. We ran 2 rigs in the DJ, 7 in the Permian during the quarter. And as planned, we've dropped 2 rigs in the Permian in October and will drop to 4 rigs by year-end before closing Vencer. In the DJ, we'll maintain our 2-rig program and have reduced completion activity in the fourth quarter as planned.

    在全公司範圍內,我們繼續將年底退出率目標定為每天約 28 萬桶油當量,並上調了全年產量指引的中點。第三季資本投資約4.3億美元,與預期一致。本季度,我們在 DJ 運行了 2 台鑽機,在二疊紀運行了 7 台。按照計劃,我們於 10 月在二疊紀地區放棄了 2 個鑽井平台,並將在年底關閉 Vencer 之前減少到 4 個鑽井平台。在 DJ 方面,我們將維持 2 台鑽機計劃,並按計劃減少第四季度的完工活動。

  • As we look toward the remainder of the year, we successfully increased our working interest in a few high-return pads and elected to participate in additional non-op activity in the core of the DJ Basin. As a result of these investments, combined with improved drilling cycle times, we're electing to increase our capital investments by about $60 million, midpoint to midpoint, bringing the new midpoint to $1.34 billion. These are high-return investments that set us up well heading into 2024.

    展望今年剩餘時間,我們成功增加了對一些高回報墊的工作興趣,並選擇參與 DJ 盆地核心的額外非營運活動。由於這些投資,再加上鑽井週期時間的縮短,我們選擇將資本投資增加約 6,000 萬美元,使新的中點達到 13.4 億美元。這些高回報投資使我們能夠順利進入 2024 年。

  • In closing, let me reiterate today's key takeaways. First, our legacy DJ and new Permian businesses are both performing well. Our integration is ahead of schedule, and we have the flexibility to invest capital across a portfolio of very high-return assets in multiple basins. Second, our recent acquisitions have created a stronger, more balanced Civitas with significant duration and a peer-leading shareholder return program. As I've said before, scale matters, but so does depth and quality of inventory and efficient execution.

    最後,讓我重申今天的要點。首先,我們的傳統 DJ 業務和新的二疊紀業務都表現良好。我們的整合提前了,我們可以靈活地在多個盆地的高回報資產組合中投資資本。其次,我們最近的收購創造了一個更強大、更平衡的 Civitas,具有較長的期限和同行領先的股東回報計劃。正如我之前所說,規模很重要,但庫存的深度和品質以及高效的執行也很重要。

  • Scale, asset quality and operational excellence are the key ingredients to sustaining and growing shareholder returns. Lastly, we know the importance of a premier balance sheet. We're advancing our noncore asset sales as planned, have a very strong outlook for free cash flow at current prices. We expect to return to our optimal leverage ratio of less than 1 turn by the end of 2024, assuming $80 oil.

    規模、資產品質和卓越營運是維持和成長股東回報的關鍵因素。最後,我們知道一流資產負債表的重要性。我們正在按計劃推進非核心資產銷售,按當前價格觀看,自由現金流前景非常強勁。假設油價為 80 美元,我們預計到 2024 年底將恢復到低於 1 倍的最佳槓桿率。

  • Thank you for your interest in Civitas. And operator, we're now happy to take questions.

    感謝您對西維塔斯的興趣。接線員,我們現在很樂意回答問題。

  • Operator

    Operator

  • (Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from the line of Neal Dingmann from Truist Securities.

    (操作員指示)我們的第一個問題來自 Truist Securities 的 Neal Dingmann。

  • Neal David Dingmann - MD

    Neal David Dingmann - MD

  • Nice job on the solid results. My first question is on the Permian. Could you remind me your assumed 2024 step-up on the Permian D&C as part of that reiterated guide, you mentioned in the release. And I'm just wondering, does this include any step-up in project size.

    幹得好,取得了紮實的成果。我的第一個問題是關於二疊紀的。您能否提醒我,作為您在新聞稿中提到的重申指南的一部分,您假設 2024 年對二疊紀 D&C 進行升級。我只是想知道,這是否包括專案規模的擴大。

  • M. Christopher Doyle - President, CEO & Director

    M. Christopher Doyle - President, CEO & Director

  • Yes. Thanks, Neal. So you look at our midpoint in 2024, $2.1 billion. That split between the Permian and the DJ is roughly 55-45 when you include Vencer, so we'll be allocating slightly more than half of our capital to the Permian in 2024. Your second question is a really interesting one, and it's what the team is currently working on and just overall project size. As we looked at these transactions, all 3 of them, we had an underwriting case, and then we have a case that indicates there's additional resource that could be allocated capital.

    是的。謝謝,尼爾。所以你看一下 2024 年的中點,即 21 億美元。如果算上 Vencer,二疊紀和 DJ 之間的比例約為 55-45,因此我們將在 2024 年將略多於一半的資本分配給二疊紀。你的第二個問題非常有趣,這就是團隊目前正在研究整體專案規模。當我們查看所有這 3 筆交易時,我們有一個承銷案例,然後我們有一個案例表明存在可以分配資本的額外資源。

  • And so 1 of the projects the team is working on is looking at overall project size and how do we most efficiently allocate capital to zones that have very strong returns, but may not have been part of the underwriting case whether they're shallower zones or zones such as the Wolfcamp B. So I would say that's still in progress, but we're very excited with how 2024 is setting up and excited to continue to execute.

    因此,團隊正在進行的專案之一是著眼於整體專案規模,以及我們如何最有效地將資本分配給回報率非常高的區域,但可能不屬於承保案例的一部分,無論它們是較淺的區域還是所以我想說,這仍在進行中,但我們對2024 年的進展感到非常興奮,並很高興繼續執行。

  • Neal David Dingmann - MD

    Neal David Dingmann - MD

  • It looks like a great runway ahead. And then my second question, just on the DJ appears, the Watkins area just continues to notably outperform. I think that's even an understatement. I'm just wondering, based on the results you've seen now for a few quarters, have you changed future expectations here? And I was just wondering, is it the extended reach wells or what continues to drive this outperformance?

    看起來前面有一條很棒的跑道。然後我的第二個問題,就在 DJ 出現時,沃特金斯地區繼續明顯跑贏大盤。我認為這甚至是輕描淡寫的。我只是想知道,根據您現在看到的幾個季度的結果,您是否改變了未來的預期?我只是想知道,是大位移井還是什麼繼續推動了這種優異的表現?

  • M. Christopher Doyle - President, CEO & Director

    M. Christopher Doyle - President, CEO & Director

  • Yes. I think our outperform is an understatement. It's conservative as I'm, even I see that. The Watkins area is -- has emerged as a core part of our portfolio and a core part of the DJ Basin. I'd say the outperformance is really attributed to a couple of things. One is, as we stepped in and stepped into full development in this area, we were conservative in our expectations, rightfully so. The team has done a fantastic job of executing, continuing to deliver and outperform our investment case and our type curves in that area. And that's for, call it, a 2-mile well.

    是的。我認為我們的表現優於大盤是輕描淡寫的。儘管我也這麼認為,但我還是個保守派。沃特金斯地區已經成為我們投資組合的核心部分和 DJ 盆地的核心部分。我想說,這種出色的表現實際上歸因於幾件事。一是,當我們介入並進入這一領域的全面發展時,我們的期望是保守的,這是理所當然的。團隊在執行、持續交付和超越我們的投資案例以及該領域的類型曲線方面做得非常出色。這就是所謂的 2 英里長的井。

  • When you add the extended reach wells and we brought on a bunch of 3 milers, I note the 4 milers, it'll be interested to see how they perform. But the 3 milers in this area, we were likewise very conservative on the degradation that we could see in that third mile. Last quarter, we noted the outperformance. Some of those pads have started to turn over. They continue to outperform our expectations, and they are performing currently in line with 2-mile expectations. I'm not going to say that there is no degradation in the third mile. I don't think that's the case. I would say that early results have been really, really positive. And so as we looked at -- and this really leads into deciding to deploy $60 million of additional capital.

    當你添加延伸井時,我們帶來了一堆 3 英里的井,我注意到 4 英里的井,人們會對它們的表現感興趣。但是對於這個區域的 3 英里,我們同樣對第三英里中可能看到的退化非常保守。上季度,我們注意到表現出色。其中一些墊已經開始翻轉。它們的表現繼續超出我們的預期,目前的表現符合 2 英里的預期。我並不是說第三英里沒有退化。我認為情況並非如此。我想說,早期的結果非常非常正面。正如我們所看到的,這確實導致決定部署 6000 萬美元的額外資本。

  • Some of that is directed at these high-quality, high-return pads in the Watkins area. And so we're excited about what we're seeing there, excited about the team continuing to execute. And I would say that while we've reflected that outperformance, we are still being somewhat cautious in how we think about 2024, but the team will continue to dial that in as we see more and more performance, and we're excited to share that with you guys.

    其中一些是針對沃特金斯地區的這些高品質、高回報的墊子。因此,我們對在那裡看到的一切感到興奮,並對團隊繼續執行感到興奮。我想說的是,雖然我們已經反映出了這種出色的表現,但我們對2024 年的看法仍然有些謹慎,但隨著我們看到越來越多的表現,團隊將繼續調整這一點,我們很高興與大家分享和你們一起。

  • Operator

    Operator

  • Our next question comes from the line of Leo Mariani from Roth MKM.

    我們的下一個問題來自 Roth MKM 的 Leo Mariani。

  • Leo Paul Mariani - MD

    Leo Paul Mariani - MD

  • I wanted to follow up a little bit on kind of your thoughts around M&A. I know you're kind of working on selling some assets, but obviously, you've been an aggressive consolidator in the Permian after being aggressive consolidator of the DJ in past years. So as you're sort of thinking about the strategy going forward, are you still kind of looking to go out there and kind of consolidate DJ or I'm sorry, Permian assets at this point in time?

    我想跟進一下您對併購的想法。我知道您正在努力出售一些資產,但顯然,在過去幾年積極整合 DJ 之後,您一直是二疊紀的積極整合者。因此,當您在考慮未來的策略時,您是否仍然希望走出去並整合 DJ 或對不起,目前是二疊紀資產?

  • M. Christopher Doyle - President, CEO & Director

    M. Christopher Doyle - President, CEO & Director

  • Yes. Thanks, Leo. We have been fairly busy, I would say, looking for ways to scale, diversify and extend our business model. The hurdle for us to go after an acquisition is very high. We always go back to the 4 pillars of our strategy, which is these assets have to be able to generate free cash flow. That is a credit to asset quality. We have to be able to maintain a premier balance sheet. We're in the midst of, as you mentioned, the noncore asset sales to help preserve our balance sheet strength. And these assets have to extend the duration of, I think, the leading shareholder return framework in our industry.

    是的。謝謝,利奧。我想說,我們一直相當忙碌,尋找擴大規模、多元化和擴展我們的業務模式的方法。我們收購後的障礙非常高。我們始終回到我們策略的四大支柱,即這些資產必須能夠產生自由現金流。這是對資產品質的認可。我們必須能夠維持良好的資產負債表。正如您所提到的,我們正在進行非核心資產出售,以幫助維持我們的資產負債表實力。我認為,這些資產必須延長我們業界領先的股東回報框架的期限。

  • When we look back at the 3 acquisitions that we've made in the Permian, each of those progressed all of those pillars. And so I'd say the hurdle for us to be interested is pretty high. We're not just looking at getting bigger. It's how do we improve shareholder returns and how do we extend the duration of shareholder returns. I would say, even with Vencer, we mentioned this on the previous call, we weren't necessarily aggressively looking to do the next transaction. But when we saw a transaction of that quality, that scale, that fits with our existing position in the Midland Basin and Permian more broadly, we did take the opportunity to pull that in.

    當我們回顧我們在二疊紀盆地進行的 3 次收購時,每一次收購都在所有這些支柱上取得了進展。所以我想說我們感興趣的障礙相當高。我們不僅著眼於變得更大。這就是我們如何提高股東回報以及如何延長股東回報的持續時間。我想說,即使我們在上次電話會議中提到了 Vencer,我們也不一定會積極尋求下一筆交易。但當我們看到這樣的交易品質、規模,更廣泛地符合我們在米德蘭盆地和二疊紀的現有地位時,我們確實抓住了這個機會。

  • Will those opportunities continue to show themselves? We'll see. But I think we've shown -- the management team has shown that we will be very disciplined and also opportunistic in how we think about extending this business model.

    這些機會會繼續出現嗎?我們拭目以待。但我認為我們已經表明——管理團隊已經表明,我們將非常自律,並且在考慮如何擴展這種業務模式時也會抓住機會。

  • Leo Paul Mariani - MD

    Leo Paul Mariani - MD

  • Okay. I appreciate the response there. So I know you guys have spoken about potentially raising more capital for Vencer over time. Just wanted to get your kind of updated thoughts around that? And then also just curious how the Vencer deal affects your cash tax position in 2024?

    好的。我很欣賞那裡的回應。所以我知道你們已經談到隨著時間的推移可能為 Vencer 籌集更多資金。只是想了解您對此的最新想法?然後還想知道 Vencer 交易如何影響您 2024 年的現金稅狀況?

  • M. Christopher Doyle - President, CEO & Director

    M. Christopher Doyle - President, CEO & Director

  • Yes. I'll kick this off and then kick it over to Marianella. So the way we structured the Vencer transaction was very deliberate to provide extreme flexibility in how we finance the transaction. Because it was coming so soon off the heels of Hibernia and Tap Rock, we wanted the flexibility of that deferred payment. And so we negotiated that deferred payment. Our plan is, as we look at our potential ways to finance the transaction is, we like having that flexibility, certainly, with where equity is and the volatility in the market, we're not in a huge hurry to accelerate that payment for what is 10% discount on that payment. But I'll -- let me kick it to Marianella to flesh that out and then talk about cash tax as well.

    是的。我先把這件事開始,然後交給瑪麗內拉。因此,我們建構 Vencer 交易的方式是經過深思熟慮的,以便為我們的交易融資方式提供極大的靈活性。因為它是在《Hibernia》和《Tap Rock》之後很快推出的,所以我們希望延期付款具有靈活性。所以我們協商了延期付款。我們的計劃是,當我們考慮交易融資的潛在方式時,我們希望擁有這種靈活性,當然,隨著股權的情況和市場的波動,我們並不急於加速支付對該付款有10% 的折扣。但我會——讓我把它交給瑪麗內拉來充實這一點,然後也談談現金稅。

  • Marianella Foschi - CFO

    Marianella Foschi - CFO

  • Sure. Leo, thanks for your question. So we have entered flexibility in our capital structure right now. Like Chris said, we structured the payments such that roughly a 10% cost of capital. We see tremendous value in our equity today. We set that when we did the equity offering and the stock was down about 10%. So we are sitting on a fully financed plan for Vencer and the deferred option even more so now is more attractive.

    當然。利奧,謝謝你的提問。因此,我們現在的資本結構已經進入了靈活性。正如 Chris 所說,我們將付款結構調整為約 10% 的資本成本。今天,我們看到了我們股權的巨大價值。我們在進行股票發行時就設定了這一點,當時股價下跌了 10% 左右。因此,我們正在為 Vencer 制定一個全額資助的計劃,而延期選項現在更有吸引力。

  • In terms of the cash taxes, so look, when you think about us as a company potentially hitting AMT into 2025, our cash taxes are going to be pretty minimal until that point. A lot of it is what oil prices you assume. It's $70 oil, we're never expected to be in an AMT position. At $80 oil, we are, the soonest we could possibly be, which is 2025. Our 2024 taxes, to your point, are going to be lower than otherwise given the Vencer transaction closing and then, so that they should be in kind of the sub-$100 million range for 2024. And then 2025, like I said, it depends on what oil prices you assume. If you assume $70 flat, we'll never hit that AMT position. If we do stay at $80, we will and that the cash taxes at that point should be in the $300 million range.

    就現金稅而言,當您考慮我們作為一家可能在 2025 年實現 AMT 的公司時,我們的現金稅在那之前將非常低。其中很大一部分是你所假設的油價。石油價格為 70 美元,我們永遠不會處於 AMT 位置。以 80 美元的油價計算,我們最快的時間是 2025 年。就您而言,我們 2024 年的稅收將低於 Vencer 交易結束後的其他稅收,因此它們應該是2024 年將低於1 億美元。然後是2025 年,就像我說的,這取決於你假設的油價。如果你假設 70 美元持平,我們永遠不會達到 AMT 的位置。如果我們確實保持在 80 美元,我們會這麼做,並且那時的現金稅應該在 3 億美元的範圍內。

  • Operator

    Operator

  • (Operator Instructions) Our next question comes from the line of Nicholas Pope from Seaport Research.

    (操作員說明)我們的下一個問題來自 Seaport Research 的 Nicholas Pope。

  • Nicholas Paul Pope - Research Analyst

    Nicholas Paul Pope - Research Analyst

  • I was hoping you could talk a little bit about the balance between the 2 sides of kind of this new Permian position you have. As you look at Delaware versus Midland, comparing kind of the returns that you're seeing on both sides and kind of what the expectation is of activity split between those 2 assets as you're kind of incorporating these 3 acquisitions?

    我希望你能談談你所擁有的這個新二疊紀位置的兩側之間的平衡。當您比較特拉華州與米德蘭時,比較一下雙方的回報以及您在合併這三項收購時對這兩項資產之間的活動分配的預期?

  • M. Christopher Doyle - President, CEO & Director

    M. Christopher Doyle - President, CEO & Director

  • Sure. Thanks for the question. So the way we rolled out initial signposts for 2024 was assuming a couple of rigs in the Delaware and a couple of rigs in the Midland Basin. Now you add Vencer, that would be 4 and 2 split between Midland and the Delaware. I think we'll be fairly close to that. Rig can move here or there, but we've got a scale position on both sides with opportunities to deploy capital at high returns, both sides of the Permian. So we're excited about that.

    當然。謝謝你的提問。因此,我們推出 2024 年初步路標的方式是假設德拉瓦州有幾個鑽井平台,米德蘭盆地有幾個鑽井平台。現在加上 Vencer,米德蘭和德拉瓦將分別獲得 4 和 2 份。我想我們已經非常接近這個目標了。鑽井平台可以移動到這裡或那裡,但我們在二疊紀兩側都擁有規模地位,有機會以高回報部署資本。所以我們對此感到興奮。

  • I think getting back to Neal's initial question around project size is where it gets really interesting as we sit back and further optimize the 2024 plan because of project size, that could direct more capital to 1 side or the other. But our initial look is just on overall size have probably 1/3 of it go to Delaware, 2/3 on the Midland. But that's TBD, and we're excited to be able to share our final guidance in February of next year.

    我認為回到 Neal 關於專案規模的最初問題,當我們坐下來進一步優化 2024 年計劃時,它變得非常有趣,因為專案規模可能會將更多資本引導到一方或另一方。但我們最初的看法只是整體規模,其中可能有 1/3 位於德拉瓦州,2/3 位於米德蘭。但這是待定的,我們很高興能夠在明年 2 月分享我們的最終指導。

  • Nicholas Paul Pope - Research Analyst

    Nicholas Paul Pope - Research Analyst

  • Appreciate that. And as you look at the commodity mix between these 2 areas, are you all comfortable with where things stand and being able to get out the gas, get -- process the NGL. How do you think -- where do you think things stand, I guess, right now on being able to move all the products that you have in those 2 areas?

    感謝。當您查看這兩個領域之間的商品組合時,您是否對現狀感到滿意並能夠排出天然氣,處理 NGL。我想,您認為目前能夠轉移您在這兩個領域擁有的所有產品的情況如何?

  • M. Christopher Doyle - President, CEO & Director

    M. Christopher Doyle - President, CEO & Director

  • Yes. I think we feel very confident with our plans on both sides of the Permian. Certainly, in the Delaware takeaway is always a consideration. So you're not going to plow half of your capital program on that side, you have to be mindful of getting product out and getting it to market. And so that will certainly have -- be a lever in how we look to deploy capital, but we feel confident with the contracts that we have in place and the access to market on both sides. But that's certainly, to your point, that's part of the calculus that will go into the 2024 capital plan.

    是的。我認為我們對二疊紀兩側的計劃非常有信心。當然,在特拉華州外賣始終是一個考慮因素。因此,您不會將一半的資本計劃投入到這一方面,您必須注意將產品推出並將其推向市場。因此,這肯定會成為我們如何部署資本的槓桿,但我們對我們現有的合約以及雙方的市場准入充滿信心。但就您而言,這肯定是 2024 年資本計畫中計算的一部分。

  • Operator

    Operator

  • There are no further questions at this time. Chris Doyle, I'll turn the call back over to you.

    目前沒有其他問題。克里斯多伊爾,我會把電話轉回給你。

  • M. Christopher Doyle - President, CEO & Director

    M. Christopher Doyle - President, CEO & Director

  • Thank you, operator, and thank you for your continued interest in Civitas. We look forward to sharing our continued progress on upcoming calls. Have a great rest of your day, and please be safe.

    謝謝您,運營商,也感謝您對 Civitas 的持續關注。我們期待在即將召開的電話會議上分享我們的持續進展。祝您今天休息愉快,並注意安全。

  • Operator

    Operator

  • Thank you. This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.

    謝謝。今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。