Cherry Hill Mortgage Investment Corp (CHMI) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and thank you for standing by, and welcome to the Cherry Hill Mortgage Investment Corporation fourth quarter 2023 earnings call. (Operator Instructions) Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded.

美好的一天，感謝您的支持，歡迎參加 Cherry Hill Mortgage Investment Corporation 2023 年第四季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）請注意，今天的會議正在錄製中。

I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, Garrett Edson with Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

我現在想將會議交給今天的發言人、投資者關係部門的加勒特·埃德森 (Garrett Edson)。請繼續。

We'd like to thank you for joining us today for Cherry Hill Mortgage Investment Corporation's fourth quarter 2023 conference call. In addition to this call, we have filed a press release that was distributed earlier this afternoon and posted to the Investor Relations section of our website at www.chmireit.com.

我們感謝您今天參加 Cherry Hill Mortgage Investment Corporation 的 2023 年第四季電話會議。除了這次電話會議之外，我們還提交了一份新聞稿，該新聞稿於今天下午早些時候分發，並發佈在我們網站 www.chmireit.com 的投資者關係部分。

On today's call, management's prepared remarks and answers to your questions may contain forward-looking statements that are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ from those discussed today. Examples of forward-looking statements include those related to interest income, financial guidance, IRRs, future expected cash flows as well as prepayment and recapture rates, delinquencies and non-GAAP financial measures such as earnings available for distribution or EAD, and comprehensive income.

在今天的電話會議上，管理層準備好的評論和對您問題的回答可能包含前瞻性陳述，這些陳述受到風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果與今天討論的結果有所不同。前瞻性聲明的例子包括與利息收入、財務指導、內部收益率、未來預期現金流量以及預付款和收回率、拖欠和非公認會計準則財務指標（例如可用於分配的收益或EAD 以及綜合收益）相關的陳述。

Forward-looking statements represent management's current estimates and Cherry Hill assumes no obligation to update any forward-looking statements in the future. We encourage listeners to review the more detailed discussions related to these forward-looking statements contained in the company's filings with the SEC and the definitions contained in the financial presentations available on the company's website.

前瞻性陳述代表管理層目前的估計，Cherry Hill 不承擔未來更新任何前瞻性聲明的義務。我們鼓勵聽眾查看與該公司向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中包含的這些前瞻性陳述以及該公司網站上的財務演示文稿中包含的定義相關的更詳細的討論。

Today's conference call is hosted by Jay Lown, President and CEO; Julian Evans, the Chief Investment Officer; and Michael Hutchby, Chief Financial Officer. Now I will turn the call over to Jay.

今天的電話會議由總裁兼執行長 Jay Lown 主持；朱利安埃文斯，首席投資長；和財務長邁克爾·哈奇比。現在我將把電話轉給傑伊。

Thanks, Gary, and welcome to our fourth quarter 2023 earnings call. On our prior call we talked about how we were laser focused on risk management as the 10-year crossed 5% and agency mortgage spreads significantly widen. To that end, we proactively positioned our portfolio for flat to higher rates and to mitigate the spread widening we were seeing in the summer and early fall by hedging out a portion of our basis risk in our RMBS portfolio with TBAs.

謝謝加里，歡迎參加我們的 2023 年第四季財報電話會議。在先前的電話會議上，我們討論了隨著 10 年期利率突破 5%、機構抵押貸款利差大幅擴大，我們如何高度關注風險管理。為此，我們積極地將我們的投資組合定位為持平或更高的利率，並透過使用TBA對沖我們的RMBS投資組合中的部分基差風險，以緩解我們在夏季和初秋看到的利差擴大。

By doing this, we had a strong third quarter and successfully preserved the vast majority of our shareholders' equity, while others, such as agency rates were considerably impacted by the spread widening through our positioning. We were aware that should mortgage spreads compress. We would also not participate as much in any upside. Shortly after our third quarter call, the Fed unexpectedly pivoted towards a much more accommodative tone, all but signaling that it would consider cutting rates beginning in early to mid 2024.

透過這樣做，我們在第三季度表現強勁，並成功保留了絕大多數股東權益，而其他方面，例如代理費率，則因我們的定位而擴大了利差，從而受到了相當大的影響。我們意識到抵押貸款利差應該被壓縮。我們也不會參與太多的上漲行情。在我們召開第三季電話會議後不久，聯準會出人意料地轉向更加寬鬆的基調，幾乎暗示它將考慮從 2024 年初至中期開始降息。

The Fed further reinforced their tone in December despite the data continuing to support a higher for longer strategy. As a result, rates plummeted in the final two months of 2023, lower coupon MBS outperformed higher coupon MBS and spreads tightened. As a result, our book value was impacted by this near term movement. That said, we've seen a reversal thus far in 2024 as the data continues to track in line with how we initially positioned our portfolio.

儘管數據繼續支持長期走高策略，但聯準會在 12 月進一步強化了基調。結果，利率在 2023 年最後兩個月暴跌，票息較低的 MBS 表現優於票面利率較高的 MBS，利差收緊。因此，我們的帳面價值受到了這一近期走勢的影響。也就是說，我們在 2024 年迄今已經看到了逆轉，因為數據繼續與我們最初定位投資組合的方式保持一致。

Inflation remains hot with the PCA still elevated, which has compelled the Fed to telegraph a more patient posture around future rate cuts. The market has gradually followed and rates have risen in the first two months of this year. We are watching the Fed and economic indicators closely as we position our portfolio moving forward and believe our overall strategy of pairing MSR with Agency RMBS remains the proper strategy for the current environment.

通膨依然強勁，PCA 仍處於高位，這迫使聯準會在未來降息方面表現出更加耐心的姿態。市場也逐漸跟進，今年前兩個月利率有上漲。我們正在密切關注聯準會和經濟指標，因為我們正在調整我們的投資組合，並相信我們將 MSR 與機構 RMBS 結合的整體策略仍然是當前環境的正確策略。

For the fourth quarter, we generated GAAP net loss applicable to common stockholders of $1.29 per diluted share. And we generated earnings available for distribution or EAD, a non-GAAP financial measure of $4.5 million or $0.17 per share, which once again covered our quarterly distribution.

第四季度，我們產生的適用於普通股股東的 GAAP 淨虧損為稀釋後每股 1.29 美元。我們產生了可用於分配或 EAD 的收益，這是一種非 GAAP 財務衡量標準，為 450 萬美元或每股 0.17 美元，這再次涵蓋了我們的季度分配。

As we've noted before, EAD is only one of several factors considered in setting our dividend policy. Additional factors such as the existing market environment and portfolio return, potentially our level of taxable income, including hedge gain impacts and a degree of certainty regarding forward investment return economics, all contribute to determining what we believe is the appropriate dividend level.

正如我們之前指出的，EAD 只是製定股利政策時考慮的幾個因素之一。其他因素，例如現有的市場環境和投資組合回報、我們潛在的應稅收入水平，包括對沖收益影響以及遠期投資回報經濟學的一定程度的確定性，都有助於確定我們認為合適的股息水平。

Book value per common share finished the year at $4.53, down 9.2% from September 30, primarily driven by portfolio positioning combined with lower MSR marks as well as having a negative duration positioning, all of which was marginally offset by spread tightening. On an NAV basis, which includes preferred stock and the calculation. NAV would have been down approximately 4.3% relative to September 30. If we were to exclude the capital raise through the ATM, we've consistently noted that our existing mix of common and preferred equity amplified the total changes in our total equity or common book value compared to our NAV, we've shared in the past the creating a more stable equity profile is a top priority in terms of our overall strategy.

每股普通股帳面價值全年收於4.53 美元，較9 月30 日下降9.2%，主要是由於投資組合定位、MSR 標記較低以及負久期定位所推動，所有這些都被利差收緊所略微抵消。以資產淨值為基礎，包括優先股和計算。與 9 月 30 日相比，資產淨值將下降約 4.3%。如果我們排除透過ATM 籌集的資金，我們一直注意到，與我們的資產淨值相比，我們現有的普通股和優先股的組合放大了我們總股本或普通帳面價值的總體變化，我們過去曾分享過度創造更穩定的股權結構是我們整體策略的重中之重。

In the fourth quarter, we began to put that strategy to work. We raised $11.8 million through our at-the-market common share program, and we utilized over $6 million of the funds raised early this year to repurchase some of our Series B preferred shares. We believe it is the right step for the company to put us on a much firmer footing with respect to our capital structure. This approach benefit common shareholders as the repurchase of Series B preferred shares ultimately reduces the amount we pay for preferred dividends once the Series B transitions to a floating rate.

在第四季度，我們開始將這項策略付諸實現。我們透過市場普通股計畫籌集了 1,180 萬美元，並利用今年年初籌集的資金中超過 600 萬美元回購了部分 B 系列優先股。我們相信，對公司來說，這是正確的一步，可以讓我們在資本結構上奠定更堅實的基礎。這種方法有利於普通股東，因為一旦 B 系列過渡到浮動利率，回購 B 系列優先股最終會減少我們支付的優先股股息金額。

As we move through 2024, we will continue focusing on similar measures to further enhance our equity profile while remaining mindful of our balance sheet strength and our investment portfolio.

進入 2024 年，我們將繼續關注類似的措施，以進一步改善我們的股本狀況，同時繼續關注我們的資產負債表實力和投資組合。

At the end of the year, financial leverage reduced slightly to 4.2 times as we continue to stay prudently levered as the volatile market dynamics persist and selectively deploy capital. We ended the quarter with $53 million of unrestricted cash on the balance sheet, maintaining a solid liquidity profile.

年末，在市場波動持續的情況下，我們繼續保持審慎的槓桿水平，並選擇性地配置資本，財務槓桿小幅下降至4.2倍。本季結束時，我們的資產負債表上有 5,300 萬美元的不受限制的現金，保持了穩健的流動性狀況。

Looking ahead, we continue to manage our portfolio closely and focus on risk management. In these volatile times. We will continue to selectively deploy capital into additional agency RMBS, which still presents a strong risk-adjusted return profile compared to [MSRs] and will remain hard at work improving our equity profile for the ultimate benefit of common shareholders while not sacrificing our strong liquidity and leverage.

展望未來，我們將繼續密切管理我們的投資組合併專注於風險管理。在這個動盪的時代。我們將繼續選擇性地將資本配置到其他機構RMBS 中，與[MSR] 相比，它仍然呈現出強勁的風險調整回報狀況，並將繼續努力改善我們的股權狀況，以實現普通股股東的最終利益，同時不犧牲我們強大的流動性和槓桿。

With that, I will turn the call over to Julian, who will cover more details regarding our investment portfolio and it's performance over the fourth quarter.

接下來，我將把電話轉給朱利安，他將介紹有關我們的投資組合及其第四季度業績的更多詳細資訊。

Thank you, Jay. As Jay noted, we had appropriately positioned our portfolio for the higher for longer rate environment. That economic and inflation data continue to support and we benefited in the third quarter as well as in the October from that positioning in November. Despite the data still supporting our position, we were surprised by the Fed's sudden shift in policy away from higher for longer and clearly intimating that they would be looking to cut interest rates multiple times in 2024. Interest rates rallied the yield curve flatten and mortgage spreads tightened over the next two months.

謝謝你，傑伊。正如傑伊指出的那樣，我們已針對長期利率較高的環境適當定位了我們的投資組合。經濟和通膨數據繼續提供支持，我們在第三季和 10 月從 11 月的定位中受益。儘管數據仍然支持我們的立場，但我們對聯準會突然將政策從長期升息轉向長期升息感到驚訝，並明確暗示他們將尋求在 2024 年多次降息。在接下來的兩個月裡，利率上升，殖利率曲線趨平，房貸利差收緊。

Ultimately, lower coupon RMBS outperformed the higher coupon RMBS, where we were primarily invested. Our MSRs were impacted and our portfolio's negative duration was not positioned for the rate rally leading to our book value performance. Thus far in 2024, we've seen another pivot in the Fed's policy, partially stepping back from the aggressive language has the economic and inflation data further booster our thesis that our portfolio was appropriately positioned. We are prevailing thus far in the first quarter. We continue to closely watch the Fed and will further proactively adjust our portfolio as necessary given the ongoing volatility.

最終，較低票面 RMBS 的表現優於我們主要投資的較高票息 RMBS。我們的 MSR 受到了影響，而且我們投資組合的負久期並未適應利率上漲，導致我們的帳面價值表現。2024 年迄今為止，我們看到聯準會政策再次轉向，部分放棄了激進的語言，經濟和通膨數據進一步支持了我們的論點，即我們的投資組合定位適當。到目前為止，我們在第一季取得了勝利。我們將繼續密切關注聯準會，並將根據當前的波動情況進一步主動調整我們的投資組合。

At year end, our MSR portfolio had a UPB of $20 billion and a market value of approximately $254 billion. The MSR and related net assets represented approximately 44% of our equity capital and approximately 28% of our investable assets excluding cash at the end of the quarter. Meanwhile, our RMBS portfolio accounted for approximately 39% of our equity capital. As a percentage of investable assets, the RMBS portfolio represented approximately 72% excluding cash at year end.

截至年底，我們的 MSR 投資組合的 UPB 為 200 億美元，市值約為 2,540 億美元。截至本季末，MSR 及相關淨資產約占我們股本的 44%，約占我們可投資資產（不含現金）的 28%。同時，我們的 RMBS 投資組合約占我們股本的 39%。截至年末，RMBS 投資組合約佔可投資資產的 72%（不包括現金）。

Prepayment speeds for our MSR and RMBS portfolios continue to remain relatively steady compared to the prior quarter. Given the elevated mortgage rate environment. Our MSR portfolio's net CPR averaged approximately 4.2% for the fourth quarter, modestly down from 5.6% net CPR in the previous quarter. The portfolio's recapture rate remained consistent but low at approximately 1% has the incentive to refinance continues to be minimal.

與上一季相比，我們的 MSR 和 RMBS 投資組合的預付款速度持續保持相對穩定。鑑於抵押貸款利率升高的環境。我們的 MSR 投資組合第四季的平均淨 CPR 約為 4.2%，略低於上一季 5.6% 的淨 CPR。投資組合的回收率保持一致，但較低，約為 1%，因此再融資的動力仍然很小。

Moving forward, we continue to expect low recapture rates and a stable net CPR for at least the near term, which should the Fed pursue rate cuts would expect both matrix to right over time.

展望未來，我們繼續預期至少在短期內會出現低迴收率和穩定的淨 CPR，如果聯準會實施降息，預計這兩個矩陣都會隨著時間的推移而恢復正常。

The RMBS portfolio's prepayment speeds remained low as expected, driven by a combination of new asset purchases as well as the fact that the current higher mortgage rate environment continues to compress CPRs for the existing portfolio.

由於新資產購買以及當前較高的抵押貸款利率環境繼續壓縮現有投資組合的 CPR，RMBS 投資組合的提前還款速度仍然較低，符合預期。

As of today, the majority of mortgage universe remains out of the money. In terms of refinancing, we would expect prepayments to remain at low levels as long as the interest rates remain at these levels, but should there be rate cuts later this year, prepayments will begin to rise.

截至今天，抵押貸款領域的大部分仍然處於資金短缺狀態。在再融資方面，只要利率保持在這些水平，我們預計預付款項將保持在較低水平，但如果今年稍後降息，預付款項將開始上升。

For the quarter. The RMBS portfolio's weighted average three-month CPR, it was slightly higher at approximately 4.9% compared to approximately 4.4% in the third quarter. As of December 31, the RMBS portfolio, inclusive of TBAs, stood at approximately $655 million compared to $583 million at the previous quarter end. Quarter-over-quarter, we reduced some of our TBA hedges in the portfolio as we shifted towards a more neutral posture given the Fed's pivot on their policy stance towards potential rate cuts.

對於本季。RMBS 投資組合的三個月加權平均 CPR 略高於第三季的約 4.4%，約 4.9%。截至 12 月 31 日，包括 TBA 在內的 RMBS 投資組合約為 6.55 億美元，而上一季末為 5.83 億美元。考慮到聯準會將政策立場轉向潛在降息，我們轉向更中性的立場，環比減少了投資組合中的一些 TBA 對沖。

For the fourth quarter, RMBS net interest spread was 3.2% increase from the prior quarter was driven by lower REPO costs due to lower REPO balances and improved amortization expenses. At year end, the portfolio's financial leverage remained at approximately 4.2 times and the 30-year securities position continued to represent 100% of the RMBS portfolio.

第四季度，RMBS 淨利差較上一季成長 3.2%，這是由於 REPO 餘額減少和攤銷費用改善導致 REPO 成本降低。截至年底，投資組合的財務槓桿維持在約4.2倍，30年期證券部位繼續佔RMBS投資組合的100%。

Looking forward, we expect volatility to remain elevated for at least the near term. Our macro growth and particularly inflation to have a significant impact on the upcoming Fed decisions. We will continue to manage our portfolio thoughtfully while looking to shift our overall capital structure to further add value for shareholders through improved performance and earnings.

展望未來，我們預期波動性至少在短期內仍將維持在高水準。我們的宏觀成長，特別是通膨將對聯準會即將做出的決定產生重大影響。我們將繼續深思熟慮地管理我們的投資組合，同時尋求改變我們的整體資本結構，透過改善績效和收益進一步為股東增加價值。

I will now turn the call over to Mike for fourth quarter financial discussion.

我現在將把電話轉給麥克，進行第四季的財務討論。

Thank you, Julian. Our GAAP net loss applicable to common stockholders for the fourth quarter was $35.5 million or $1.29 per weighted average diluted share outstanding during the quarter, while comprehensive loss applicable to common stockholders, which includes the mark-to-market of our available for sale RMBS was $6.5 million or $0.24 per weighted average diluted share.

謝謝你，朱利安。我們在第四季度適用於普通股股東的GAAP 淨虧損為3,550 萬美元，即該季度加權平均攤薄後已發行股票1.29 美元，而適用於普通股股東的綜合虧損（包括按市值計價的可供出售RMBS ）為650 萬美元或稀釋後每股加權平均 0.24 美元。

Our earnings available for distribution attributable to common stockholders were $4.5 million or $0.17 per share. Our book value per common share as of December 31, was $4.53 compared to book value of $4.99 as of September 30.

我們可供普通股股東分配的收益為 450 萬美元，即每股 0.17 美元。截至 12 月 31 日，我們每股普通股的帳面價值為 4.53 美元，而截至 9 月 30 日的帳面價值為 4.99 美元。

We use a variety of derivative instruments to mitigate the effects of increases in interest rates on a portion of our future repurchase borrowings. At the end of the fourth quarter, we held interest rate swaps, TBAs and treasury futures, all of which had a combined notional amount of approximately $955 million. You can see more details with respect to our hedging strategy in our 10-K as well as in the fourth quarter presentation.

我們使用各種衍生性工具來減輕利率上升對我們未來部分回購借款的影響。截至第四季末，我們持有利率互換、TBA 和國債期貨，所有這些產品的名目金額合計約為 9.55 億美元。您可以在我們的 10-K 以及第四季度的演示中看到有關我們對沖策略的更多詳細資訊。

For GAAP purposes, we have not elected to apply hedge accounting for interest rate derivatives. And as a result, we recorded a change in estimated fair value as a component of the net gain or loss on interest rate derivatives. Operating expenses were $3.5 million for the quarter.

出於公認會計準則的目的，我們沒有選擇對利率衍生性商品應用對沖會計。因此，我們將估計公允價值的變動記錄為利率衍生性商品淨損益的一部分。本季營運費用為 350 萬美元。

On December 8, 2023, our Board of Directors declared a dividend of $0.15 per common share for the fourth quarter of 2023, which was paid in cash on January 31, 2024. We also declared a dividend of $0.5125 per share on our 8.2% Series A cumulative redeemable preferred stock and a dividend of $0.515625 on our 8.25% Series B fixed to floating rate cumulative redeemable preferred stock, both of which were paid on January 16, 2024.

2023年12月8日，我們的董事會宣布2023年第四季派發每股普通股0.15美元的股息，並於2024年1月31日以現金支付。我們也宣布對8.2% A 系列累積可贖回優先股派發每股0.5125 美元的股息，對8.25% B 系列固定至浮動利率累積可贖回優先股派發每股0.515625 美元的股息，兩者均於2024年1 月16 日支付。

At this time, we will open up the call for questions. Operator?

此時，我們將開放提問。操作員？

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Mikhail Goberman, Citizens JMP.

米哈伊爾·戈伯曼，公民 JMP。

Hey, thanks for taking my questions, guys. I hope everyone's doing well. I guess the first one I have is on what are you guys' thoughts on appetite for leverage going forward, given it some in the lowest level of recent memory, I guess I could say and I guess the second question would be perhaps an update on book value thus far in the first quarter? Thanks.

嘿，謝謝你們回答我的問題，夥計們。我希望每個人都一切順利。我想我的第一個問題是你們對未來槓桿的興趣有何想法，考慮到最近記憶中的最低水平，我想我可以說，我想第二個問題可能是關於到目前為止第一季的帳面價值？謝謝。

In terms of leverage, I think we will adjust that over time. Right now, we feel as if the market is still very volatile spreads in terms of RMBS are still attractive, but they're on the lower side of where they've been over the last year. I think the average has been about 150 basis points. And right now we're trading a little bit through that probably have some further downside to go, but could easily see given the headlines and what the Fed actually decides to do with the next couple of meetings to still see on the markets be very volatile. Longer term, we do think that the Fed will ease later this year. They've moved directly from a tightening bias to more of neutral bias and at some point they will get to an easing bias once they feel that inflation has gotten to the level that they feel comfortable with.

在槓桿方面，我認為我們會隨著時間的推移進行調整。目前，我們認為市場仍然非常波動，人民幣債券的利差仍然具有吸引力，但與去年相比處於較低水平。我認為平均值約為 150 個基點。目前我們的交易情況可能還有進一步的下行空間，但考慮到頭條新聞以及聯準會在接下來的幾次會議上實際決定採取的行動，我們很容易看到市場仍將非常不穩定。從長遠來看，我們確實認為聯準會將在今年稍後放鬆政策。他們已經從緊縮傾向直接轉向中性傾向，並且在某個時候，一旦他們認為通膨已達到他們感到滿意的水平，他們就會轉向寬鬆傾向。

Let me touch on a book value for you. We see our February 29, book value per share at about flat versus year end, quarter end. And that's prior to any first quarter dividend accrual as Board has not yet met to approve it.

讓我為您談談帳面價值。我們認為 2 月 29 日的每股帳面價值與年末、季末持平。這是在任何第一季股息應計之前，因為董事會尚未開會批准。

Great. Thank you, Julie and Michael and as far as the preferred stock repurchases of the $6.1 million in the last quarter. Can we expect a similar pace going forward quarterly or maby something else?

偉大的。謝謝朱莉和邁克爾，以及上季度 610 萬美元的優先股回購。我們能否期望每季都會有類似的步伐，或是其他什麼？

Hey, Mikhail. I think that -- I can give you a definitive answer there, but it's clear that we're trying to rightsize the leverage calculation here and that Series B becomes floating in April. So it is our strong desire to do that I think the hard part about answering your question about the pace of that is around trying to be mindful about the dilution impact and we're trying to do it with as minimal impact as we can. So the pace I think depends on a few things, but it's definitely our desire to keep going.

嘿，米哈伊爾。我認為——我可以在那裡給你一個明確的答案，但很明顯，我們正在嘗試調整這裡的槓桿計算規模，並且 B 輪融資將在 4 月開始浮動。因此，我們強烈希望做到這一點，我認為回答您關於進展速度的問題的困難部分是要注意稀釋影響，我們正在努力以盡可能小的影響來做到這一點。因此，我認為速度取決於一些因素，但這絕對是我們繼續前進的願望。

Got it. Thank you. And if I could squeeze in one more, any thoughts on this potential MSR sales from my NYCB?

知道了。謝謝。如果我可以再擠進一張，對我的 NYCB 潛在的 MSR 銷售有什麼想法嗎？

So I don't have any color on that. We have been in our conversations with Flagstar have been pretty high level and macro relative to their relationship on the servicing front. But I can't imagine that if they do that it would be in a small block. So I imagine that others who have the ability to purchase something $10 billion or higher are probably going to get a better look at that than us. But today we have no color relative to whether or not that's just a rumor or what I think the capital they got was a huge step towards stabilizing things. And I have just have no insight into what they're thinking relative to future moves to either appears the regulators or prop up the balance sheet.

所以我對此沒有任何顏色。相對於他們在服務方面的關係，我們與 Flagstar 的對話是相當高水準且宏觀的。但我無法想像如果他們這樣做的話，那會是在一個小街區裡。所以我想其他有能力購買 100 億美元或更高價格的東西可能會比我們更清楚地了解這一點。但今天我們不知道這是否只是謠言，或者我認為他們獲得的資本是朝著穩定局勢邁出的一大步。我只是不知道他們對未來的舉措有何看法，無論是監管機構還是支撐資產負債表。

Yeah, fair enough. Thanks, guys. Best luck going forward.

是的，很公平。多謝你們。祝你好運。

(Operator Instructions) And I'm showing no further questions at this time. I would now like to turn the conference back to Jay for closing remarks.

（操作員說明）我目前沒有提出任何進一步的問題。現在我想請傑伊致閉幕詞。

Thank you, operator. Thank you for joining us on our fourth quarter 2023 call. We look forward to updating you in a few months on our first quarter 2024 call. Have a good evening, everyone.

謝謝你，接線生。感謝您參加我們的 2023 年第四季電話會議。我們期待在幾個月後向您通報 2024 年第一季電話會議的最新情況。祝大家晚上好。

And this concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。