Carlyle Secured Lending Inc (CGBD) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Thank you for standing by, and welcome to The Carlyle secured lending Inc. fourth quarter 2023 earnings conference call. At this time, all participants are in a listen only mode after the speakers' presentation, there will be a question and answer session to ask a question. During the session, you'll need to press star one one on your telephone. If your question has been answered and you'd like to remove yourself from the queue, simply press star one one.

感謝您的耐心等待，歡迎參加凱雷擔保貸款公司 2023 年第四季財報電話會議。此時，所有參與者都處於只聽模式，在演講者演講後，將有一個問答環節來提問。在會議期間，您需要在電話上一一按星號。如果您的問題已得到解答並且您想將自己從佇列中刪除，只需按星號一一即可。

Again. As a reminder, today's program is being recorded. And now I'd like to introduce your host for today's program, Daniel Hahn, Shareholder Relations. Please go ahead, sir.

再次。提醒一下，今天的節目正在錄製中。現在我想介紹一下今天節目的主持人，股東關係部門的丹尼爾·哈恩 (Daniel Hahn)。請繼續，先生。

Good morning, and welcome to Carlisle's lending's Fourth Quarter 2020 Earnings Call. With me on the call this morning at Air and the call is our Chief Executive Officer, Tom Hennigan, our Chief Financial Officer. Last night, we filed our Form 10 K and issued a press release with the presentation of our results, which are available on the Investor Relations section of our website.

早安，歡迎參加卡萊爾貸款 2020 年第四季財報電話會議。今天早上我接聽了 Air 的電話，接聽電話的是我們的執行長、財務長湯姆·亨尼根 (Tom Hennigan)。昨晚，我們提交了 10 K 表格，並發布了一份新聞稿，介紹了我們的業績，這些新聞稿可以在我們網站的投資者關係部分找到。

Following our remarks today, we will hold a question and answer session for analysts and institutional investors this call is being webcast and a replay will be available on our website. Any forward-looking statements made today do not guarantee future performance and any undue reliance should not be placed on these statements are based on current management expectations and involve inherent risks and uncertainties, including those identified in the Risk Factors section of our annual report on Form 10 K. These risks and uncertainties could cause actual results to differ materially from those indicated, Carl, our secured lending assumes no obligation to update any forward-looking statements at any time.

在今天的演講之後，我們將為分析師和機構投資者舉行問答會議，此次電話會議將進行網路直播，並在我們的網站上提供重播。今天所做的任何前瞻性陳述都不保證未來的業績，也不應過分依賴這些陳述，這些陳述是基於當前管理層的預期，涉及固有的風險和不確定性，包括我們年度報告的風險因素部分中確定的風險和不確定性10 K. 這些風險和不確定性可能導致實際結果與所示結果存在重大差異，卡爾，我們的擔保貸款不承擔隨時更新任何前瞻性聲明的義務。

With that, I'll turn the call over to Eric.

這樣，我會將電話轉給艾瑞克。

Thanks, Dan. Good morning, everyone, and thank you all for joining. As has become custom, I will focus my remarks on three topics for today's call. First, I'll provide an overview of the fourth quarter and full year 2023 financial results. Next, I'll touch on the current market environment. And finally, I'll conclude with a few comments on the quarter's investment activity and portfolio positioning.

謝謝，丹。大家早安，感謝大家的加入。按照慣例，我將在今天的電話會議中重點討論三個主題。首先，我將概述 2023 年第四季和全年財務表現。接下來我會談談目前的市場環境。最後，我將對本季的投資活動和投資組合定位發表一些評論。

Starting off with earnings, we continue to see our financial performance benefit from the higher base rate impacts in the fourth quarter. We generated net investment income of $0.56 per share, which is an increase of 8% from the prior quarter and represents an annual yield of 13% based on [1231]. This continues the trend upward from last quarter and the LTM period. As a result of our continued execution of our strategy, the quality of our portfolio and our confidence in the future. Beginning this quarter, we are increasing the base dividend by $0.03 from $0.37 to $0.4 per share. Our Board of Directors declared a total first quarter dividend of $0.48 per share, consisting of our new base dividend of $0.4 plus an $0.08 supplemental, a total increase of 9% compared to the prior quarter and an increase of 8% on the base division. Our net asset value as of December 31st was $16 and $0.99 per share. That's up $0.13 or approximately 1% from the September 30th period, primarily as a result of our Q4 earnings outpacing our dividend.

從收益開始，我們繼續看到我們的財務表現受益於第四季度較高的基本利率的影響。我們產生每股 0.56 美元的淨投資收益，比上一季成長 8%，年收益率為 13%。[1231].這延續了上季和 LTM 期間的上升趨勢。由於我們持續執行我們的策略，我們的投資組合品質以及我們對未來的信心。從本季開始，我們將每股基本股息增加 0.03 美元，從 0.37 美元增加到 0.4 美元。我們的董事會宣布第一季股息總額為每股 0.48 美元，其中包括 0.4 美元的新基本股息加上 0.08 美元的補充股息，與上一季相比總計增加 9%，基本股息增加 8%。截至 12 月 31 日，我們的資產淨值為 16 美元，每股 0.99 美元。與 9 月 30 日相比，上漲了 0.13 美元，約 1%，這主要是由於我們在第四季度的盈利超過了股息。

Turning now to the market environment, 2023 was defined by market volatility, slow private equity capital formation and muted M&A activity for most of the year. For context, private equity deal activity and M&A activity were down significantly in 23 compared to 22 and 21, though there was a pickup in M&A activity in the fourth quarter. With this backdrop, throughout the year, our investment team leveraged the breadth and depth of the one Carlyle platform to drive value in the evolving market environment by generating significant volume across our existing portfolio of borrowers and Carlyle's broad sourcing network, leveraging our incumbencies allowed us to source transactions where we had diligence and information advantages and existing portfolio companies accounted for approximately half of our deal closings during the year. Our flexible origination capabilities enabled us to source transactions from the lower end of the middle market at $25 million of EBITDA and opportunistically all the way up to $450 million of EBITDA in the last year that includes sponsored and nonsponsored companies across North America and Europe. Outside of our core middle market strategy, we leverage the one Carlyle network to source complementary, differentiated specialty lending transactions within the asset based and recurring revenue markets. These trends were evident throughout the year and continue with Q4 origination activity. We continue to be pleased with the overall credit performance of our existing portfolio with revenue and EBITDA up quarter over quarter and since inception compared to the prior year, portfolio company revenue and EBITDA both expanded by an average of approximately 13% and compared to the prior quarter, 1% and 3% respectively. Nonaccruals were stable in the fourth quarter. And as Tom will discuss in detail later, we expect these levels to improve in the coming quarters.

現在轉向市場環境，2023 年的大部分時間是市場波動、私募股權資本形成緩慢以及併購活動低迷。就背景而言，儘管第四季度併購活動有所回升，但與 22 和 21 季度相比，23 季度的私募股權交易活動和併購活動大幅下降。在此背景下，全年，我們的投資團隊利用凱雷單一平台的廣度和深度，透過在我們現有的借款人投資組合和凱雷廣泛的採購網絡中產生大量資金，在不斷變化的市場環境中推動價值，並利用我們現有的優勢尋找我們具有盡職調查和資訊優勢的交易，現有投資組合公司約占我們年內完成交易的一半。我們靈活的發起能力使我們能夠從中低端市場獲得 2500 萬美元 EBITDA 的交易，並在去年有機會將 EBITDA 高達 4.5 億美元，其中包括北美和歐洲的贊助和非贊助公司。除了我們的核心中間市場策略之外，我們還利用凱雷單一網路在基於資產和經常性收入的市場中尋找互補的、差異化的專業貸款交易。這些趨勢在全年中都很明顯，並且在第四季度的發起活動中繼續存在。我們仍然對現有投資組合的整體信用表現感到滿意，收入和 EBITDA 環比增長，自成立以來與上一年相比，投資組合公司的收入和 EBITDA 均比上年平均增長約 13%分別為四分之一、1%和3%。第四季非應計費用保持穩定。正如湯姆稍後將詳細討論的那樣，我們預計這些水平將在未來幾季得到改善。

Tactical origination activity, strong credit fundamentals and the current rate environment drove record income for CGBD. despite the rising base rate environment over the last two years, we have been intentionally conservative with our dividend through the cycle. In our view, our new dividend policy, which Tom will expand upon later, provides a sustainable base dividend along with a transparent framework for supplemental dividends that will enable investors to better anchored their expertise.

戰術發起活動、強勁的信貸基本面和當前的利率環境推動了 CGBD 創紀錄的收入。儘管過去兩年基本利率不斷上升，但我們在整個週期的股息方面一直有意保守。我們認為，我們的新股息政策（湯姆稍後將對此進行擴展）提供了可持續的基本股息以及透明的補充股息框架，使投資者能夠更好地鞏固其專業知識。

Lastly, I'd like to spend a few minutes on current positioning. Our portfolio remains highly diversified and is comprised of 173 investments in 128 companies across over 25 industries. The median EBITDA across our portfolio at the end of the quarter was $76 million. The average exposure in any single portfolio company is less than 1% and 95% of our investments are in senior secured loans.

最後，我想花幾分鐘談談目前的定位。我們的投資組合仍然高度多元化，由超過 25 個行業的 128 家公司的 173 項投資組成。截至本季末，我們投資組合的 EBITDA 中位數為 7,600 萬美元。任何單一投資組合公司的平均風險敞口均低於 1%，我們 95% 的投資都是優先擔保貸款。

I'll now hand the call over to our CFO, Tom Hennigan.

現在我將把電話轉交給我們的財務長 Tom Hennigan。

Thanks, Aaron. Today I'll begin with a review of our fourth quarter earnings. Then I'll discuss portfolio performance, and I'll conclude with detail on our balance sheet positioning. As Eric previewed, we had another strong quarter on the earnings front. Total investment income for the fourth quarter was $63 million, up about $2 million from the prior quarter. This increase was driven by the continued positive impact of base rate and an increase in both other income and OID acceleration, which were aided by prepayment activity. Total expenses of $34 million were flat versus prior quarter. Of note, total interest expense was up modestly as base rates stabilized during the quarter. The result was net investment income for the fourth quarter of $28 million, or $0.56 per share, up nearly 8% from the prior quarter. And this level represents an all-time high for core ENI in any quarter. Our Board of Directors declared the dividends for the first quarter of 2024 at a total level of $0.48 per share. That's comprised of the new $0.4 base dividend, plus an $0.08 supplemental, which is payable to shareholders of record as of the close of business on March 29th. The total dividend level reflects an increase of 9% over the previous $0.44 per share and reflects the earnings power and stability of our portfolio despite a complex macroeconomic environment. Our base dividend coverage of 140% for the quarter remains above the BDC peer set average, and we've grown the base dividend by 25% since 2022. At the same time, the total dividend level also represents an attractive yield of over 12% based on the recent share price in terms of the forward outlook for earnings for the rest of 2024, we see stability at this $0.5 plus level based on the latest interest rate curves and our current conservative positioning on leverage. Despite rising rates, we've maintained a conservative, disciplined approach that we believe will enable us to continue consistent dividend payouts in a variety of rate environments, including when rates normalize. So we remain highly confident in our ability to comfortably meet and exceed our new $0.4 base dividend and continue paying out supplemental dividends each quarter and going forward, we're going to shift to a floating supplemental dividend construct and target paying out at least 50% of excess earnings through the supplemental dividend, which will allow us to be flexible as the portfolio evolves and base rates fluctuate on valuations. Our total aggregate realized and unrealized net gain was about $0.5 million for the quarter, supported by slight net positive movement in valuations. This increase in valuations combined with Q4 earnings exceeding the dividend resulted in their NAB increasing from $16.86 to $16.99 per share Turning to the portfolio, we continue to see overall stability in credit quality across the book. Similar to last quarter, there were no new nonaccruals and no additions to our watch list which are deals with risk ratings four or five total non-accruals were effectively flat quarter over quarter, and we're very pleased to report that dermatology associates was successfully recapitalized in early February with the lenders taking equity control. So we expect an improvement in non-accruals when we report March results. We continue to proactively manage the portfolio and are working with sponsors to ensure borrowers have adequate liquidity, you'll see the pick interest ticked up over the course of 2023 in almost all cases when we provided pick relief for existing borrowers, that was accompanied by significant equity support from the sponsor.

謝謝，亞倫。今天我將首先回顧我們第四季的收益。然後我將討論投資組合的表現，最後我將詳細介紹我們的資產負債表定位。正如埃里克（Eric）所預見的那樣，我們在盈利方面又經歷了一個強勁的季度。第四季總投資收入為 6,300 萬美元，比上一季增加約 200 萬美元。這一增長是由基本利率的持續積極影響以及其他收入和 OID 加速的增加所推動的，而預付款活動也促進了這一增長。總支出為 3,400 萬美元，與上一季持平。值得注意的是，隨著本季基本利率穩定，總利息支出小幅上升。結果是第四季度淨投資收入為 2800 萬美元，即每股 0.56 美元，比上一季增長近 8%。這一水準代表了核心 ENI 在任何季度的歷史最高水準。我們的董事會宣布 2024 年第一季的股息總額為每股 0.48 美元。其中包括新的 0.4 美元基本股息，加上 0.08 美元的補充股息，該股息將支付給截至 3 月 29 日收盤時登記在冊的股東。總股息水準比之前的每股 0.44 美元增加了 9%，反映了儘管宏觀經濟環境複雜，但我們投資組合的獲利能力和穩定性。我們本季 140% 的基本股利覆蓋率仍然高於 BDC 同業設定的平均水平，並且自 2022 年以來我們已將基本股利增加了 25%。同時，就2024 年剩餘時間的獲利前景而言，基於最近的股價，總股息水準也代表了超過12% 的有吸引力的收益率，根據最新的股息，我們認為穩定在0.5 美元以上的水平。利率曲線和我們目前對槓桿的保守定位。儘管利率不斷上升，我們仍保持保守、嚴格的方法，我們相信這將使我們能夠在各種利率環境下（包括利率正常化時）繼續保持一致的股息支付。因此，我們仍然對能夠輕鬆滿足並超過新的 0.4 美元基本股息並繼續每個季度支付補充股息的能力充滿信心，展望未來，我們將轉向浮動補充股息結構，並目標支付至少 50%通過補充股息獲得超額收益，這將使我們能夠隨著投資組合的發展和估值基礎利率的波動而保持靈活性。本季我們已實現和未實現的淨收益總額約為 50 萬美元，這得益於估值小幅淨正變動的支撐。估值的增加加上第四季度收益超過股息，導致其 NAB 從每股 16.86 美元增至 16.99 美元。轉向投資組合，我們繼續看到整個帳簿信用品質的整體穩定性。與上個季度類似，我們的觀察名單中沒有新的非應計費用，也沒有添加涉及風險評級的交易，四到五個非應計費用總額實際上與季度持平，我們很高興地報告，皮膚病學助理成功地完成了2月初進行了資本重組，貸款人取得了股權控制權。因此，當我們報告 3 月份業績時，我們預計非應計費用將有所改善。我們繼續積極管理投資組合，並與贊助商合作，確保借款人擁有足夠的流動性，在我們為現有借款人提供挑選減免的情況下，幾乎所有情況下，您都會看到2023 年挑選利息有所上升，同時來自保薦人的重大股權支持。

I'll finish by touching on our financing facilities and leverage. We continue to be well positioned on the right side of our balance sheet leverage is down quarter over quarter, and we're intentionally running leverage conservatively at the lower end of our target range to maintain the flexibility to invest in attractive opportunities.

最後我將談談我們的融資設施和槓桿。我們的資產負債表槓桿率逐季下降，我們繼續處於有利地位，並且我們有意將槓桿率保守地控制在目標範圍的下限，以保持投資有吸引力機會的靈活性。

Statutory leverage was about 1.2 times. And net financial leverage ended the quarter modestly lower, right, about one turn the lowest level since early 2022. This positioning allows us to remain opportunistic as the macro economic environment evolves and deal activity looks to pick up in 2024.

法定槓桿約1.2倍。本季末淨財務槓桿小幅下降（右），約為 2022 年初以來的最低水準。這種定位使我們能夠隨著宏觀經濟環境的變化和 2024 年交易活動的增加而保持機會主義。

With that, I'll turn it back to Aaron.

有了這個，我會把它轉回亞倫。

Thanks, Tom. I would like to finish by highlighting the consistency of our investment approach and reiterate our overall investment strategy. We are primarily focused on making senior secured floating rate investments to U.S. companies backed by high-quality sponsors primarily in the mid-market market. Demand for private credit remains high, and we continue to focus on sourcing transactions with significant equity cushion, attractive leverage levels, strong documentation and attractive spreads relative to not only the current market, but also historical originations through our disciplined underwriting, prudent portfolio construction and conservative approach to risk manage with attractive new originations, a stable portfolio and reduced nonaccruals. We benefited from continued execution of our strategy in 2023 and remain committed to delivering a nonvolatile cash flow stream to our investors through consistent income and solid credit performance. I'd like to now hand the call over to the operator to take your questions. And thank you so much.

謝謝，湯姆。最後，我想強調我們投資方法的一致性，並重申我們的整體投資策略。我們主要專注於向主要在中端市場的優質贊助商支持的美國公司進行高級擔保浮動利率投資。對私人信貸的需求仍然很高，我們繼續專注於尋找具有顯著股本緩衝、有吸引力的槓桿水平、強大的文件記錄和有吸引力的利差的交易，這些交易不僅相對於當前市場，而且透過我們嚴格的承銷、審慎的投資組合建構和歷史起源保守的風險管理方法，具有有吸引力的新產品、穩定的投資組合和減少的非應計費用。我們受益於 2023 年策略的持續執行，並繼續致力於透過穩定的收入和穩健的信用表現為投資者提供穩定的現金流。我現在想將電話轉接給接線員回答您的問題。非常感謝。

Certainly One moment for our first question and our first question comes from the line of Bryce Rowe from B. Riley. Your question, please.

當然，我們的第一個問題請稍等一下，我們的第一個問題來自 B. Riley 的 Bryce Rowe。請提出你的問題。

Thanks a lot. Good morning, Doug, I'm going to I'm going to take here.

多謝。早安，道格，我要去這裡了。

Wanted to maybe piggyback on some of the prepared comments there around a potential pickup in activity. We've heard that from you or from other BDCs. And if you could kind of just help us think about what that might look like, especially relative to the leverage profile of your balance sheet at this point? I mean, you've noted that you're at one of the lowest leverage points come in quite a while. So just kind of want to understand how that could evolve over the course of 24.

希望或許能藉鏡一些有關活動可能回升的準備好的評論。我們從您或其他 BDC 那裡聽到了這一點。您是否可以幫助我們思考這可能會是什麼樣子，尤其是相對於您目前資產負債表的槓桿狀況？我的意思是，您已經註意到，您正處於相當長一段時間以來槓桿率最低的點之一。所以我只是想了解這在 24 年間會如何演變。

Yes. So as usual, you ask you ask question probably has multi facets. So when we think of leverage, I'll just start there. That's and Tom then should happen if he'd like. But that is a sort of multivariable topic. So one we're able to in today's market originate loans that add S plus six plus. I think last year, the average loan in the CTBT. was probably around x plus 650 and the team here will tell me if I'm off, by a few basis points, you're able to actually pay out that sustainable and nonvolatile cash flow stream, which is actually the ultimate product of any BDC without being over-levered.

是的。所以像往常一樣，你問的問題可能有多個面向。因此，當我們想到槓桿時，我就從這裡開始。如果湯姆願意的話，那就應該會發生。但這是一個多變量的話題。因此，我們能夠在當今的市場上發放增加 S+6+ 的貸款。我認為去年《全面禁止核子試爆條約》的平均貸款額是這樣的。大概是 x 加 650 左右，這裡的團隊會告訴我，如果我離開了，通過幾個基點，你就能夠實際支付可持續且非易失性的現金流，這實際上是任何 BDC 的最終產品而不被過度槓桿化。

And Brian, you and I and the team have talked about this behind closed doors many times. The goal here isn't to run hot just for the sake of being invested. The goal here is to yield payout that that nonvolatile cash flow stream. So for us, the leverage is really just a function of the rest of the stretch, so would be in terms of a pickup in I'm just go into the fourth quarter. So there was a pickup in transactions in the fourth quarter and the first quarter has actually been it's been stable to the fourth quarter. The reality, though, is our first question, is it, hey, how do we do 10 more deals? Our first question is the incremental transaction that we're doing for you and I've talked about this behind closed doors, is it going to improve the current portfolio period?

布萊恩，你和我以及團隊已經多次私下討論過這個問題。這裡的目標並不是僅僅為了投資而變得炙手可熱。這裡的目標是產生非揮發性現金流的支出。因此，對我們來說，槓桿實際上只是其餘時期的函數，因此在我剛進入第四季度時就會有所回升。因此，第四季度的交易有所回升，而第一季實際上一直到第四季度都保持穩定。但現實是我們的第一個問題是，嘿，我們要如何再做 10 筆交易？我們的第一個問題是我們正在為您做的增量交易，我已經私下討論過這個問題，它會改善當前的投資組合週期嗎？

So when we think about whether we have to take up leverage, we think about how an uptick in volume impacts the fund.

因此，當我們考慮是否必須使用槓桿時，我們會考慮交易量的增加如何影響基金。

The first question is it oh, how many more deals can we do the first question is how do we actually create cleanest most nonvolatile cash flow stream that we can so that they can is leverage done? I'm going to stay down at one turn forever. No, we don't need it to. But in this market, based on our current base returns, we actually have the benefit of being able to do that. And the same token and I'm sorry for this doesn't perfectly get to your question. Hopefully, it's getting around it even of deal flow picks up effectively that I'd rather have the biggest funnel to be able to choose the best deal side rather always see more deals, but just because originations and see more transactions has picked up again, my product and our team's product to you the street and this is kind of the strategy we tried to execute is how do you create a clean portfolio that kicks off the cash flows that you all can predict. Is that helpful?

第一個問題是哦，我們還能做多少交易？第一個問題是我們如何真正創造最乾淨、最非揮發性的現金流，以便它們可以完成槓桿操作？我將永遠留在一個轉彎處。不，我們不需要它。但在這個市場上，根據我們目前的基本回報，我們實際上有能力做到這一點。同樣的道理，我很抱歉這並不能完全解決你的問題。希望即使交易流有效地回升，它也能解決這個問題，我寧願擁有最大的漏斗，以便能夠選擇最好的交易方，而不是總是看到更多的交易，但僅僅因為起源和看到更多的交易再次回升，我的產品和我們團隊的產品給你，這就是我們試圖執行的策略，就是如何創造一個乾淨的投資組合，啟動你們都可以預測的現金流。有幫助嗎？

Yes, for sure, appreciate it.

是的，當然，欣賞它。

Definitely. I definitely get gets to the meat of the question. And maybe a maybe a follow-up for Tom. Since you talked about it in the prepared remarks, the dermatology associates investment crystallized here in February, as you noted. Can you talk about what the mechanics of that might look like in the first quarter given that you're actually carrying it at a at a fair value mark above cost, right?

確實。我絕對明白了問題的實質。也許是湯姆的後續行動。正如您所指出的，既然您在準備好的發言中談到了這一點，皮膚科協會的投資就在二月份具體化了。鑑於您實際上以高於成本的公允價值標記，您能否談談第一季的機制可能會是什麼樣子，對吧？

So the new capital structure, like the similar structure is going to have to trust the data first out in the last out. And then you'll see there will be a new equity traunch on our SOI. one and four notice in the aggregate, our total fair value will be crystal ball right now is roughly unchanged. So total fair value is not going to change very much. It's just it will be different instruments and there'll will be more value moving from what is now our last out on non-accrual to an equity tranche and then will be more debt on accrual status in those new tranches. So net-net, positive impact on a quarterly bit full quarter basis of about $0.01 penny per share.

因此，新的資本結構，就像類似的結構一樣，必須相信先出後出的資料。然後你會看到我們的 SOI 將會有新的股權削減。總的來說，第一和第四通知，我們水晶球的總公允價值目前大致保持不變。因此，總公允價值不會有太大變動。只是它將是不同的工具，並且將會有更多的價值從我們現在最後的非應計部分轉移到股權部分，然後在這些新部分中將有更多的應計狀態債務。因此，淨淨額對季度的正面影響約為每股 0.01 美分。

Okay. No impact on fair value, but by end non-accruals going down materially with that transaction in the aggregate being removed from nonaccrual status?

好的。對公允價值沒有影響，但最終非應計費用會大幅下降，交易總量會從非應計費用狀態中刪除？

Yes. Okay. Got it. And then maybe last one for me. I mean, you all had swapped out the fixed rate for a floating rate on the on the on the baby bonds and maybe an obvious answer from you all. But just any thought around, you know, why do that as opposed to as opposed to just keeping a keep keeping a fixed rate there.

是的。好的。知道了。然後也許是我的最後一個。我的意思是，你們都已經將嬰兒債券的固定利率換成了浮動利率，也許你們所有人都有一個明顯的答案。但任何想法，你知道，為什麼要這樣做，而不是只維持固定利率。

Price would be 8%. And when we were looking at our maturities at the end of 24, we wanted to be measured and not put all eggs in one basket and wait for the market to rebound. So we consider this kind of step one in addressing those upcoming maturities 8.2 for the market was a good rate, but candidly, not a rate we wanted to stick with for any long term amount of time. So felt the right thing to do would be to swap that to floating, certainly seeing that, but likely that base rates are going to come down. So over time paying much less than the 8.2. And that's at least with the rate where the rate curves are going to go. That's what we anticipate happening with that instrument.

價格將是8%。當我們考慮 24 月底的到期日時，我們希望進行衡量，而不是將所有雞蛋放在一個籃子裡等待市場反彈。因此，我們認為解決市場即將到期的 8.2 的第一步是一個很好的利率，但坦白說，這不是我們想要長期堅持的利率。因此，我認為正確的做法是將其改為浮動利率，當然會看到這一點，但基本利率可能會下降。所以隨著時間的推移付出的代價比8.2少很多。至少利率曲線的走向是這樣的。這就是我們預計該儀器會發生的情況。

And in terms of the next step is we're going to look to do potentially an index eligible deal, whether it be later in 24, early 25, increase our overall unsecured debt exposure. That's something that we'll be working on and working more say in the course of the course of the next year.

就下一步而言，我們將尋求潛在的符合指數資格的交易，無論是在 24 日晚些時候還是 25 月初，增加我們的整體無擔保債務風險。這是我們將在明年進行的工作和更多工作。

Got it. Okay. Thanks for that first.

知道了。好的。首先謝謝你。

Thank you.

謝謝。

You One moment for our next question and our next question comes from the line of Finian O'Shea from Wells Fargo Securities. Your question please continue.

請稍等一下我們的下一個問題，我們的下一個問題來自富國銀行證券公司的菲尼安·奧謝 (Finian O'Shea)。你的問題請繼續。

Hey, everyone. Good morning. So, Aaron, I appreciate the portfolio cover as it relates to the core middle market strategy and opportunistically partaking in the larger market and or ARR deals. So in these instances, does that mean the direct lending platform that serves the BDC? And are you is opportunistically doing other styles? Or is it that the BDC complex is claiming this deal flow from other Carlyle credit verticals? And then second part, there are you still dedicated to the core middle market or are you drifting up the market by design things?

嘿大家。早安.因此，Aaron，我很欣賞投資組合的覆蓋範圍，因為它與核心中間市場策略以及機會主義地參與更大的市場和/或 ARR 交易有關。那麼在這些情況下，這是否意味著為 BDC 提供服務的直接貸款平台？你是否會趁機嘗試其他風格？或者 BDC 綜合體是否聲稱這些交易流來自其他凱雷信貸垂直領域？第二部分，你們仍致力於核心中間市場，還是透過設計來提升市場？

And yet the first time into your math guys have been on an earnings call.

然而，第一次接觸數學的人卻參加了財報電話會議。

Herkert issue is it should be a target school now.

赫克特的問題是它現在應該是一所目標學校。

So let me start from the first question, which is a great one. So our meeting is core middle market. So if you think about the for our entire platforms, that's a great question. If you think about the median EBITDA of a company that we that we lend to, it's about $76 million. With that said, we have a pretty big and this is all within direct lending and private credit business.

讓我從第一個問題開始，這是一個很好的問題。所以我們的會議是核心中間市場。因此，如果您考慮我們整個平台，這是一個很好的問題。如果您考慮我們所貸款的公司的 EBITDA 中位數，大約是 7600 萬美元。話雖如此，我們的規模相當大，而且都屬於直接貸款和私人信貸業務。

We have a large origination footprint. So for us when I think the team thinks about direct lending, my ultimate goal and I'm going to go back to the previous question is we're putting together a big portfolio with the average position being less than 1%. So the my ultimate product is the cash flow stream that kicks out. So in the first half of last year, when there were a lot fewer transactions to be had. It was the first time in many years where quite frankly, the terms of the upper part of the market. So well north of $100 million of EBITDA, we were able to get at spreads that were on top of the mid-market. So call it 675, 700. We're able to get covenants that we're able to get terms that were the same. So from a from a risk standpoint, in the first half of the year, opportunistically, we're able to do direct lending and we have to make a choice for our investors. What is the safe? What is safer? If I can get similar term, similar protections and similar spread to the mid-market and actually have the protection of a much larger business. We historically have now those covenants and having that boots protections. We opportunistically went up market by the second half of the year. And you and I have talked about this behind closed doors as well as the upper part of the market got a little bit more crowded. Clo bid came back. Significant retail flows went into other direct lending strategies and some of our peers, we skewed a back down to the core mid-market. So that core mid-market, again, defined as somewhere between $25 million and in the second half of the year, probably $25 million to $75 million.

我們擁有大量的原創足跡。因此，對我們來說，當我認為團隊考慮直接貸款時，我的最終目標（我將回到上一個問題）是我們正在組建一個平均頭寸低於 1% 的大型投資組合。所以我的最終產品是現金流。所以去年上半年，交易量就少了很多。坦白說，這是多年來第一次出現市場上部的條款。EBITDA 遠高於 1 億美元，我們能夠獲得中階市場的利差。所以稱之為 675、700。我們能夠達成協議，我們能夠獲得相同的條款。所以從風險的角度來看，上半年，機會性的，我們能夠做直接貸款，我們必須為我們的投資者做出選擇。保險箱是什麼？什麼更安全？如果我能獲得類似的條款、類似的保護和類似的傳播到中端市場，並且實際上得到更大企業的保護。從歷史上看，我們現在擁有這些契約並擁有這種保護措施。我們在下半年抓住機會進入了高端市場。你和我已經私下討論過這個問題，市場的上半部變得更加擁擠。克洛比德回來了。大量零售資金流向其他直接貸款策略和我們的一些同行，我們轉向核心中端市場。因此，核心中端市場再次定義為 2,500 萬美元，下半年可能為 2,500 萬至 7,500 萬美元。

The point on ABL strategies, we do have a team focused on asset-backed lending. And when we think about asset-backed lending it is to core middle market companies, but as opposed to being infrastructure, the cash flow loan, we are literally thinking about downside protection being true assets, receivables, cash, et cetera, real estate. And then we have about us with obviously a very big software practice who also reports with a up to me and that team opportunistically has done some ARR deals. We are quite frankly, been probably less exposed. They are than some of our peers. But again, my my goal and this doesn't sound this is going to sound sexy. My goal is how do you get overpaid for taking less risk?

關於 ABL 策略，我們確實有一個專注於資產支援貸款的團隊。當我們考慮資產支持貸款時，它針對的是核心中間市場公司，但與基礎設施、現金流貸款相反，我們實際上考慮的是真實資產、應收帳款、現金等房地產的下行保護。然後我們顯然有一個非常大的軟體實踐，他們也向我報告，並且該團隊機會主義地做了一些 ARR 交易。坦白說，我們的暴露程度可能較低。他們比我們的一些同齡人要優秀。但再說一遍，我的目標，這聽起來並不性感。我的目標是你如何因承擔較少的風險而獲得過高的報酬？

So you have to fill again, we're focused on direct lending once in a while. If I can go up market, if that market's dislocated. We do it and we did it last first half last year. Today we're probably more focused on the mid-market, though, opportunistically.

所以你必須再次填充，我們偶爾會專注於直接貸款。如果我能進入高階市場，如果那個市場錯位了。我們這麼做了，去年上半年我們就這麼做了。不過，今天我們可能更關注中端市場，但機會主義。

Would you go up market if something attractive Hopefully that answers the question.

如果有有吸引力的東西，你會進入市場嗎？希望這能回答這個問題。

Yes, very much.

是的，非常喜歡。

Thank you. And to give back to dermatology associates, sorry if I missed any of this part of the dialogue, but it sounds like you just control or received control. But this, of course, had been along some challenged credit where you had restructured the debt somewhat previously. So can you give some more color on that the state of the investment now, do you plan to put more money into it or maybe immediately bring in a new sponsor partner? And then how has the EBITDA trajectory stabilized or is it still in decline things?

謝謝。為了回饋皮膚科同事，很抱歉，如果我錯過了這部分對話的任何部分，但聽起來你只是控製或接受了控制。但這當然是伴隨著一些有問題的信貸，您之前已經對債務進行了重組。那麼您能否進一步說明目前的投資狀況？您是否計劃投入更多資金，或立即引進新的贊助商合作夥伴？那麼 EBITDA 軌跡是如何穩定下來的還是仍在下降？

Well, let me tackle the last part first because that's one of my favorite questions or answers that company has exhibited 12 consecutive quarters of EBITDA growth, steady performance, continued upward trend, modest increases every quarter, but 12 quarters in a row coming out of the pandemic of EBITDA increases. In terms of the future, it's stable growth. We're not looking to shoot for the fences and get it and put in material new dollars to grow. It will go into now is a new equity group assess the right time to exit the investments. We're going to invest prudently. I don't have any grand plans for the Company's performance. It's stable and improving, and we'll look at the at the right time to exit the Investment Group.

好吧，讓我先解決最後一部分，因為這是我最喜歡的問題或答案之一，該公司已連續12 個季度實現EBITDA 增長，業績穩定，持續上升趨勢，每個季度都有適度增長，但連續12 個季度來自EBITDA 的流行增加。就未來而言，是穩定成長。我們並不打算衝破圍欄，獲得它並投入新的資金來實現成長。現在將進入一個新的股權集團評估退出投資的適當時機。我們將謹慎投資。我對公司的業績沒有任何宏偉的計劃。它很穩定並且正在改善，我們會考慮在合適的時間退出投資集團。

And Jim, you know, it's a good question. I think where we are in the cycle. We hear a call direct lending spent a lot of time a year plus ago, I think was behind the scenes, looking at our processes, figuring out exactly how to be prudent and more careful in terms of, again being proactive in situations that were teetering. So I would say that we're kind of we're not in the first inning of that for our portfolio. We're close to the end of the game and where we have full control of it. I think a lot of our peers are are are just on the front end of that. So for us, part of the boring stuff is you're not going to Tom is not going to be in front of the street like we are today saying, hey, we turned the quarter without those 12 consecutive quarters of positive numbers. So for us, the key is and the key to making sure that we have a clean portfolio when we come to you and we're being conservative. So we've we feel pretty good about where things are pass-on.

吉姆，你知道，這是一個很好的問題。我認為我們處於週期的哪個位置。我們聽說一年多前直接貸款花了很多時間，我認為是在幕後，查看我們的流程，弄清楚如何更加謹慎和更加小心，再次在搖搖欲墜的情況下積極主動。所以我想說，我們的投資組合還沒進入第一局。我們已經接近比賽的尾聲，我們已經完全控制了比賽。我認為我們的許多同行都處於這方面的前沿。所以對我們來說，無聊的事情之一是你不會像我們今天那樣在街上說，嘿，我們在沒有連續 12 個季度出現正數的情況下完成了這個季度。因此，對我們來說，關鍵是確保我們在找到您時有一個乾淨的投資組合，並且我們是保守的。所以我們對事情的傳遞情況感覺很好。

Thank you, both.

謝謝你們倆。

Appreciate you.

感謝你。

Hopefully we get you for next quarter to trend lower our elements.

希望我們能讓您在下個季度減少我們的元素。

Thank you. One moment for our next question. And our next question comes from the line of Arren Cyganovich from Citi. Your question, please.

謝謝。請稍等一下我們的下一個問題。我們的下一個問題來自花旗銀行的 Arren Cyganovich。請提出你的問題。

Thanks for the question. And maybe just the competitive dynamics in Air Act will increase.

謝謝你的提問。也許只是《航空法案》中的競爭動力將會增加。

And do you mind we can give you a little muffled a muffled.

你介意我們低聲給你一點嗎？

Sorry, better.

對不起，更好。

Sure.

當然。

Sorry about that. And I guess from a competitive standpoint, as activity is increasing and we're hearing spreads are tightening a bit. Tom, how is that changing, I guess relative to maybe three or six months ago?

對於那個很抱歉。我想從競爭的角度來看，隨著活動的增加，我們聽說價差正在收緊。湯姆，我想相對於三、六個月前，情況有何改變？

Yes. I've listened to a few of our peers' calls, and that seems to be a common question. So and I've been saying this a lot recently, this time isn't different. Usually when you're getting outsized returns, just what we learned in economics. One or one is capital comes into trying to attract those outsized returns, and that's what gets the spreads to go back to normal. I would say that relative to first quarter and first half of last year where and again, I'm giving you directional numbers. I actually don't have off the top of my head. So the average deal we're seeing was probably close to 675, 700. That's not normal. So relative to an abnormally why that spread and quite frankly, a very high base rate where base returns were going to be nearly 13%-plus things have come in significantly since that, let's say at the upper end of the market. If you are talking about a transaction that North is north of $100 million and could easily be considered for the BSL market in a previous slide. Those transactions have certainly gone from north of 600 to somewhere between Yes, on the larger end 500 and up to 550 for a regular way, direct lending deal. That is market. What we're seeing is somewhere between it's 550 and 625 on average of those have come in.

是的。我聽過一些同行的電話，這似乎是一個常見的問題。所以我最近已經說過很多次了，這次也不例外。通常當你獲得巨額回報時，這正是我們在經濟學中學到的。一是資本試圖吸引巨額回報，這就是讓利差恢復正常的原因。我想說的是，相對於去年第一季和上半年，我一次又一次地給你們提供方向性數字。我實際上沒有頭腦。所以我們看到的平均交易量可能接近 675、700 筆。這不正常。因此，相對於這種異常蔓延的原因，坦白說，非常高的基本利率（基本回報率將接近 13% 以上）自那以來已經顯著出現，比如說在市場的高端。如果您談論的是 North 的交易，金額超過 1 億美元，並且很容易在上一張幻燈片中被考慮用於 BSL 市場。這些交易肯定已經從 600 筆以上上升到了 500 筆到常規直接貸款交易的 550 筆之間。那就是市場。我們看到的平均數量在 550 到 625 之間。

With that said, with base rates still where they are, you are where you are achieving sort of a store level of return without much leverage. And what you haven't seen or at least we've been we tried to be disciplined here, but what you're seeing on the upper part of the market certainly covenants of look look-alike or covenants and the existence of covenants looks a lot more like the BSL market there. So there's a lot more color light in the upper end of the direct lending market in the regular way, mid-market, I'd say more times than not you're seeing and covenants. And then the documentation is still holding in at all, say what's what else is holding in leverage levels. So just because of the overall now, even if spreads have come in, you're still talking about a 530 base rate give or take so the average leverage level that we're seeing hasn't really increased much. You're still talking about low fives and in some cases, high fours. So you're still seeing a fairly low amount of leverage. So what I'd say is dependent on where you are and this goes to the previous person's the previous analyst's question. That's why we're opportunistic as to where we play there certain times for certain parts of the market that are much more competitive and aggressive. And we at times avoid those so that we can actually get overpaid in other parts of the market. I would say that the larger market is probably the most competitive today of what it would have saved, but things are and that's why we're being a little bit more opportunistic and the mid-market, I think you're seeing a little bit more value there, more likelihood of covenants, more likelihood of stronger documentation. And I'd say from all of the market, not just the mid-market, I'd say the leverage levels are continuing to be lower than historical leverage levels. Is that does that work counting?

話雖如此，在基本費率保持不變的情況下，您無需太多槓桿即可實現商店水平的回報。你沒有看到的，或者至少我們已經看到過，我們試圖在這裡遵守紀律，但是你在市場的上部看到的肯定是看起來相似的契約或契約的存在，並且契約的存在看起來更像是那裡的BSL 市場。因此，在直接貸款市場的高端，以常規方式，中端市場，有更多的色彩，我想說，你看到的次數和契約都多於沒有。然後文件仍然保持不變，說明槓桿水平中還有什麼保持不變。因此，僅僅因為現在的整體情況，即使利差已經出現，你仍然在談論 530 的基本利率讓步，所以我們看到的平均槓桿水平並沒有真正增加太多。你們仍在談論擊掌，有時甚至擊掌。因此，您仍然看到相當低的槓桿率。所以我要說的取決於你所處的位置，這涉及到前一個人的前一個分析師的問題。這就是為什麼我們會在某些時候針對更具競爭力和侵略性的市場某些部分採取機會主義的做法。我們有時會避免這些，這樣我們實際上就可以在市場的其他部分獲得過高的報酬。我想說，更大的市場可能是當今最具競爭力的市場，但事實就是如此，這就是為什麼我們更加機會主義，而中端市場，我認為你看到了一點那裡的價值更大，契約的可能性更大，更有力的文件記錄的可能性更大。我想說的是，從整個市場，而不僅僅是中端市場，我想說槓桿水平繼續低於歷史槓桿水平。這樣算有用嗎？

Yes, contract links.

是的，合約連結。

And then just a quick one on the on your other income, I think you said that that was the kind of quarter to quarter. The prepayment activity was going to happen with some more prepayment fees, would you expect that your other income line will revert back to more of your longer-term historical in this kind of environment for us? Would that would you expect that to come back down over the past few months, two preceding quarters?

然後快速介紹一下您的其他收入，我想您說過那是季度到季度的情況。預付款活動將會發生更多的預付款費用，在這種環境下，您是否期望您的其他收入線將恢復到更多的長期歷史水平？您是否預計這數字會在過去幾個月、前兩季回落？

Aaron, it's Tom. When we look at other income or event-driven income, we look at a combination of total OID acceleration plus other income. And that line item generally will move based on repayments, amendment activity. And historically that has been a little under $4 million per quarter earlier in 23 based on lower prepayment activity was lower in a couple of quarters. It was more like $3 million per quarter than less than $3 million this quarter. That combined number was about $4.5 million. So relative to the historical trend, it was about $0.5 million or about a penny higher than the historical trend line. It was it was a pop versus the rest of 2023, which was abnormally low. So yes, upon for 20 for the fourth quarter, but only about a penny higher than the historical average.

亞倫，是湯姆。當我們考慮其他收入或事件驅動收入時，我們會考慮總 OID 加速加上其他收入的組合。該行項目通常會根據還款、修改活動而變化。從歷史上看，23 年初，由於預付款活動在幾個季度中有所下降，這一數字略低於 400 萬美元。本季每季的金額接近 300 萬美元，而不是低於 300 萬美元。總金額約 450 萬美元。因此，相對於歷史趨勢，它比歷史趨勢線高出約 50 萬美元或約一便士。與 2023 年剩餘時間的異常低迷相比，這一年是一個流行時期。所以，是的，第四季為 20，但僅比歷史平均高出約一美分。

Yes, that's helpful.

是的，這很有幫助。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

And as a reminder, ladies and gentlemen, if you have a question at this time, please press star one one on your telephone One moment for our next questions.

提醒一下，女士們先生們，如果您此時有疑問，請在電話上按星號一一，請稍等一下我們的下一個問題。

And our next question comes from the line of Melissa Wedel from JP Morgan and your question, please.

我們的下一個問題來自摩根大通的 Melissa Wedel，請問您的問題。

Good morning. Thanks for taking my question. Most of mine have already been asked and answered. And I wanted to follow up on one of the slides, in particular with the risk-rating distribution, really, it seems like in a side, given how strong it seems like the fundamental performance is of companies across the portfolio broadly, but did notice a very small tick up in three and four it rated portfolio companies. I guess the question is to the extent that you are seeing portfolio companies with any particular challenges, where is that coming from? Is it still inflationary pressures that labor costs curious what you're seeing.

早安.感謝您提出我的問題。我的大部分問題已經被問過並得到答案。我想跟進其中一張幻燈片，特別是風險評級分佈，實際上，考慮到整個投資組合中公司的基本表現似乎有多強勁，這似乎是一個側面，但我確實注意到其對投資組合公司的評級中，有三、四家的漲幅非常小。我想問題是，如果您看到投資組合公司面臨任何特定的挑戰，那麼這些挑戰來自哪裡？勞動成本是否仍然是通膨壓力，令人好奇你所看到的情況。

So maybe I'll start and Melissa, thank you for the question and Tom hub in So risk ratings and just so you have it. We behind these risk ratings. We have three or four other processes that we run to ensure that we have our arms around everything. They the overarching theme I'd give you, though, is sometimes when we're moving things from two to three, three to four. It is less a function so that the five is a function of their serious issues. But in many cases, Melissa, it's more of a function of us, ensuring that we are putting the appropriate level of resources around Carlyle on names, well ahead of when something goes well. So I think one of the issues that we forgotten direct lending sometimes is if something's wrong, if you are managing your book and you actually are looking at your numbers and you do typically designed the documentation correctly, you have 12 months, 24 months long ahead of time to start preparing. So it outset, I'll start that with a slight movement from two to three times from three to fours. That's generally going to be particularly for flight, not fire alarms. That's generally going to be us saying, hey, we want more resource to look at it, a name or two.

所以也許我會開始，梅麗莎，謝謝你的問題和湯姆在風險評級中的中心，這樣你就明白了。我們支持這些風險評級。我們還運行其他三到四個流程，以確保我們能夠掌控一切。不過，我要給你們的首要主題是，有時我們會將事情從兩個移動到三個，從三個移動到四個。它不是一個函數，因此五個是其嚴重問題的函數。但在很多情況下，梅麗莎，這更多的是我們的職責，確保我們在一切進展順利之前，在凱雷的名字上投入適當水平的資源。因此，我認為我們有時忘記直接貸款的問題之一是，如果出現問題，如果您正在管理您的書籍並且您實際上正在查看您的數字並且您通常正確設計了文檔，那麼您還有12 個月、24 個月的時間是時候開始準備了。首先，我會以輕微的動作開始，從三到四次，從兩到三次。這通常特別適用於飛行，而不是火災警報器。我們通常會說，嘿，我們需要更多資源來查看它，一兩個名字。

Then the last piece I'll tell you is relative to a year ago and a year ago, a lot of what we're seeing was inflationary driven. So you would have heard us a year ago when we had our issues in the health care space that then took care of the we've taken care of at this point. A lot of that was about inflationary pressure this past year. If you look at our overall portfolio, then I'll hand it's Tom, the inflationary theme, though it may still be there in small parts, but I think our average our average business was up about 13% in revenue with just a little bit north of that in EBITDA. So you are by definition, revenue and EBITDA are either growing or in line and as of late EBITDA is outpacing that. So you're right, that's a year ago. The inflationary theme was the was the conversation today, not as much. And by the way, Melissa, I'll tell you like picking up speed a year ago was the theme today not as much today. It's changed so much that we you and colleagues in the analyst build.

然後我要告訴你的最後一篇文章是相對於一年前的，一年前，我們看到的很多事情都是由通貨膨脹驅動的。因此，您可能在一年前就聽到我們的聲音，當時我們在醫療保健領域遇到了問題，然後解決了我們目前已經解決的問題。其中很大一部分與去年的通膨壓力有關。如果你看看我們的整體投資組合，那麼我會把它交給湯姆，通膨主題，儘管它可能仍然存在於小部分，但我認為我們的平均業務收入增長了約 13%，只需要一點點EBITDA以北。因此，根據定義，收入和 EBITDA 要么正在增長，要么保持一致，最近 EBITDA 已經超過了這一增長。所以你是對的，那是一年前的事了。通膨主題是今天的話題，但沒有那麼多。順便說一句，梅麗莎，我告訴你，一年前加快速度是今天的主題，但今天不再那麼重要了。它發生瞭如此之大的變化，以至於我們您和分析師的同事們都在建立。

One of the other questions, no investors, what's your view on forward interest rates?

其他問題之一，沒有投資者，您對遠期利率有何看法？

So think about the fact that we're asking we're talking about interest rates being cut and on the same call asking about inflationary pressure. So I think we turn that quarter generally, knock on wood on our portfolio. Tom, what did I miss

因此，請考慮一下這樣一個事實：我們在詢問降息的同時，也在詢問通膨壓力。所以我認為我們總體上會在這個季度扭轉我們的投資組合。湯姆，我錯過了什麼

But it is specific to the changes in the risk ratings this quarter or the one on page that four categories, two, loans, two positions that contributed the fair value increased. One is dermatology which has continued to inch up every quarter. The other is pro PT., which is our home base side. That's the other deal that's on nonaccrual with value that again improved so it's slightly up. So that's that before movement this quarter. That's a positive or two deals on nonaccrual value actually going in the right direction in the three category that increased about $15 million was driven primarily by two deals. When I say that three category, it means to Aaron's point we're focused on at risk has increased probably for those particular credits leverages up. Ebitda is likely down when we close. But importantly, we're not worried about losing money. And so we're focused on it, but we're really not worried about losing money at the particular themes for those deals. One is consumer just to consumer discretionary deals. We don't have very much in the portfolio, but we've seen lower demand in consumer driven businesses and then across our industrial book, just destocking and one of the credits just headed. We've had that in a couple of credits in the book, and that was one of the downgrades just a general destocking in the current environment.

但具體到本季或一頁的風險評級變化，四個類別，兩個，貸款，兩個頭寸貢獻了公允價值的增加。其中之一是皮膚科，每個季度都在持續小幅增長。另一個是Pro PT.，這是我們的大本營。這是另一筆非應計交易，其價值再次有所改善，因此略有上升。這就是本季變動之前的情況。這是非應計價值的一兩筆積極交易，實際上在三個類別中正朝著正確的方向發展，增加了約 1500 萬美元，主要是由兩筆交易推動的。當我說這三個類別時，就亞倫的觀點而言，這意味著我們關注的風險可能會因那些特定的信貸槓桿而增加。當我們關閉時，息稅折舊攤提前利潤可能會下降。但重要的是，我們不擔心賠錢。所以我們專注於它，但我們真的不擔心在這些交易的特定主題上賠錢。一種是消費者對消費者的非必要交易。我們的投資組合不多，但我們看到消費者驅動型企業的需求下降，然後在我們的工業帳簿中，只是去庫存，其中一項信貸剛開始。我們在書中的幾個學分中已經提到了這一點，這是降級之一，只是當前環境下的普遍去庫存。

So those are a couple of things I'd mentioned in terms of as we're looking at deals that migrates from a two to three categories much more EDO's relative to a year ago where everything was inflation now it's more idiosyncratic and we're on top of it. Does that help move it up?

因此，這些是我提到的幾件事，因為我們正在尋找從兩類到三類遷移的交易，相對於一年前，一切都是通貨膨脹，現在更多的是EDO，現在它更加特殊，我們正在其頂部。這有助於提升它嗎？

It's very helpful.

這非常有幫助。

Thanks. Thanks for joining the call.

謝謝。感謝您加入通話。

Thank you.

謝謝。

This does conclude the question and answer session of today's program. I'd like to hand the program back to air and recon for any further remarks.

今天節目的問答環節到此結束。我想將節目重新播出並進行偵察，以供進一步評論。

Thank you, operator, everyone. Thanks for joining, and we look forward to talking to you later in the day. We appreciate your partnership and talk to you next quarter.

謝謝運營商大家。感謝您的加入，我們期待當天晚些時候與您交談。我們感謝您的合作夥伴關係，並將在下個季度與您交談。

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for your participation in today's conference. This does conclude the program. You may now disconnect.

女士們、先生們，感謝你們參加今天的會議。這確實結束了該程式。您現在可以斷開連線。

Good day.

再會。