Cadiz Inc (CDZIP) 2002 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. Your conference call about begin shortly. Again, thank you for standing by and we do appreciate your patience.

女士們先生們，謝謝你們的支持。您的電話會議即將開始。再次感謝您的支持，我們非常感謝您的耐心等待。

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Cadiz Inc. first quarter conference call. All participants will be in a listen only mode. After which we will conduct a question and answer session. At that time if you have a question, you will need to press the 1, followed by the 4 on your telephone. This conference is being recorded, Wednesday may 8, 2002. I would now like to turn the conference over to Mr. Keith Brackpool, chief executive officer and chairman. Please go ahead, sir.

女士們先生們，謝謝你們的支持。歡迎參加 Cadiz Inc. 第一季電話會議。所有參與者將處於只聽模式。之後我們將進行問答環節。屆時，如果您有疑問，您需要按電話上的 1，然後按 4。本次會議將於 2002 年 5 月 8 日星期三進行錄製。請繼續，先生。

Hi, this is Stan Speer, this is the chief financial officer, we'll follow our normal pattern, I'll discuss the operating results, Tim will talk about Sun World and Keith will give an update on the company. The following will contain a discussion of trend analysis and forward looking statements within the meaning of section 27A. of the securities act of 1933 as amended in section 21E. and the securities exchange act of 1934 as amended. Actual results could differ materially from those projected in forward looking statements throughout this call. Records that would cause actual results or events to differ materially from those in the company east forward looking statement are detailed in the company's most recent form 10-K, 10-Q and our securities and exchange commission filings. In regard to the operating results for the quarter, revenues for the quarter were $7.8 million, operating loss was 2.5 million and net loss applicable to common stock was 7.8 million or 22 cents per share. By comparison, excluding 2.4 million of income from nonrecurring items from the first quarter of 2001, revenues were 7.4 million, operating loss was 4.7 million, and net loss applicable to common stock was 9.6 million or 27 cents per share. As we have previously discussed in last year's first quarter, we recorded a 7.9 million litigation settlement recovery with waste management in the 5.5 million noncash compensation charge, which makes up that 2.4 million of income of nonrecurring items. Our improvement and operating performance at Sun World resulted primarily from improved marketing conditions for our naval orange market and increased royalty -- from south Africa. Earnings before income and taxes, interest, depreciation, amortization, EBITDA, contributed from Sun World was $800,000 loss for the first quarter compared to a $2.8 million loss for last year's first quarter. As we've talked about in the past, until the water programs become operational, the majority of the company's annual revenues are currently generated by the harvest and sale of crops produced by Sun World. Those revenues are typically recognized between June and October while our fixed overhead costs are incurred throughout the year. That's why you see EBITDA losses in the first quarter loss, while sun generates less than 10 percent of its recurring revenues. From a balance sheet, our working capital exclusion portion of long term debt was 7.9 million at March 31, compared to 10.1 million last year. Total assets were 202.9 million compared to 207.7 million last year. Our seasonal revolving rate 2.9 million compared to 3.6 million last year. Total long term debt was approximately 155.3 million, of which -- [inaudible] was at Sun World. Year to date capital expenditures were 1.4 million compared to 1.7 million in 2001. With that I'll turn it over to Tim.

大家好，我是斯坦·斯皮爾，這是首席財務官，我們將遵循正常模式，我將討論經營業績，蒂姆將談論太陽世界，基思將介紹公司的最新情況。以下將包含第 27A 節意義內的趨勢分析和前瞻性陳述的討論。經第 21E 條修訂的 1933 年證券法。以及經修訂的 1934 年證券交易法。實際結果可能與本次電話會議中前瞻性陳述中的預測結果有重大差異。可能導致實際結果或事件與公司前瞻性聲明中的結果或事件存在重大差異的記錄在公司最新的 10-K、10-Q 表格以及我們向證券交易委員會提交的文件中有詳細說明。 關於本季的營運業績，該季度營收為 780 萬美元，營運虧損為 250 萬美元，適用於普通股的淨虧損為 780 萬美元或每股 22 美分。 相較之下，除去2001年第一季240萬美元的非經常性項目收入，收入為740萬美元，營業虧損為470萬美元，適用於普通股的淨虧損為960萬美元或每股27美分。 正如我們之前在去年第一季討論的那樣，我們在 550 萬美元的非現金補償費用中透過廢棄物管理記錄了 790 萬美元的訴訟和解追償，這構成了 240 萬美元的非經常性項目收入。 太陽世界的改善和經營業績主要歸功於海軍橙市場營銷條件的改善以及來自南非的特許權使用費的增加。 Sun World 第一季的息稅折舊攤提前利潤虧損 80 萬美元，而去年第一季虧損 280 萬美元。 正如我們過去談到的，在水項目投入運作之前，公司年收入的大部分目前來自太陽世界生產的農作物的收穫和銷售。這些收入通常在六月至十月之間確認，而我們的固定管理費用則全年產生。 這就是為什麼第一季的 EBITDA 虧損，而 sun 的經常性收入不到 10%。 從資產負債表來看，截至 3 月 31 日，我們長期債務的營運資本排除部分為 790 萬美元，去年為 1,010 萬美元。 總資產為 2.029 億，去年為 2.077 億。我們的季節性週轉率為 290 萬，而去年為 360 萬。 長期債務總額約 1.553 億美元，其中 [聽不清楚] 是太陽世界的債務。 年初至今的資本支出為 140 萬美元，而 2001 年為 170 萬美元。 我會把它交給蒂姆。

Thanks. During the first quarter we handled approximately one [inaudible] of fresh fruits and vegetables. Average prices for the quarter were $9.22 before cooling versus $8.20 in the same prior year you quarter with an improvement in EBITDA of 2 million versus the prior year. The two major contributors to this gain included our citrus operations, which were up significantly from the prior year and then our licensing activities in south Africa. As regards the licensing activities, the number of license Sun World table grapes and these are harvested in the December and January time frame were up 30% year on year from 2.9 million boxes in the prior season to 3.8 million boxes this year with licensing royalties up a similar amount, about 30%, 1.3 million. The overall EBITDA gain for the quarter is especially encouraging given the relatively small amount of volume packed and sold during the quarter. The frame of reference, it represents only approximately 5% of our estimated volume for the year. Certainly gets us off to the right start for the season. Also significant, which many of you may have seen, is the recent agreement by the house and senate on the new farm bill. By authorizing 180 billion I believe in new spending, this bill is going to dictate federal agricultural policy over the next six years. While the majority of the money that's -- that's being appropriated is not directed -- or is directed at field crops, such as cotton and not especially fruit and vegetable crops we produce, there should be spillover benefits in two ways. First of the approximately 800 million acres in agriculture in production in California, more than half of these are field crops, which will directly qualify for the benefit, so this will encourage those to continue to deploy this acreage in field crops and not migrate to fruit and vegetable production. Secondly, we increase underlying land prices in the Cochella [phonetic] and San Joaquin valleys as provided by the under capitalization of land values. As you may have know, about two-thirds of our land holdings are located it -- and Sun World's land holding are located in the San Joaquin valley. There are some products for fruit and vegetable production, including increased foreign market access and nutritional programs, but there are no subsidies in the sector which any encourage over production. As the company moves in to the second quarter, we continue to see good progress in the maturity of our key crops for the upcoming season. Unlike the prior year which was adversely affected by overlapping growing seasons, we see [inaudible] with their normal production periods, which should hey how for an orderly market of our most important crop, which is table grapes. We also continue to see improved preseason planning by our largely retail customer base. Again, focus on driving top line category growth, by focusing on consumer preferred products, which I think as most of you now are the focus of our research and development activities. We're also making good progress in Egypt with the agricultural development there. We have 300 to 400 acres of fruit trials (trees??) down there. Most -- one of the most important criteria for that development is the timing of the fruit production, which we expect to be early season and ahead of that which would otherwise be available to Europe and from what we've seen in the last three to four weeks, the production time lines are very much in line with what our expectations were. That's very encouraging. So when you couple these things with the progress to date with our developing domestic proprietary crops, including our early peach program, Black Diamond plums and midnight beauty table grapes, we continue to be very encouraged in the outlook for the upcoming season. Pass it to Keith.

謝謝。在第一季度，我們處理了大約一種[聽不清楚]的新鮮水果和蔬菜。 冷卻前該季度的平均價格為 9.22 美元，而去年同期的平均價格為 8.20 美元，EBITDA 比去年同期提高了 200 萬美元。 這項收益的兩個主要貢獻者包括我們的柑橘業務（比前一年大幅成長）以及我們在南非的授權活動。 在許可活動方面，太陽世界鮮食葡萄的許可數量以及12月和1月收穫的葡萄數量年增30%，從上一季的290萬箱增至今年的380萬箱，許可使用費也有所增加類似的數量，大約30%，130萬。 鑑於本季包裝和銷售量相對較小，本季的整體 EBITDA 收益尤其令人鼓舞。 就參考框架而言，它僅占我們今年預計產量的約 5%。當然可以讓我們在這個賽季有一個正確的開局。同樣重要的是，你們許多人可能已經看到了眾議院和參議院最近就新農業法案達成的協議。我相信，透過授權 1800 億美元的新支出，該法案將決定未來六年的聯邦農業政策。雖然大部分資金——被撥款的資金不是直接用於——或者是直接用於大田作物，例如棉花，而不是我們生產的水果和蔬菜作物，但應該有兩個方面的溢出效益。 首先，在加州大約 8 億英畝的農業生產中，其中一半以上是大田作物，這些作物將直接有資格受益，因此這將鼓勵人們繼續將這些面積部署在大田作物上，而不是遷移到水果上和蔬菜生產。 其次，由於土地價值資本化不足，我們提高了科切拉（Cochella）和聖華金山谷的基本土地價格。您可能已經知道，我們大約三分之二的土地位於該地區，而太陽世界的土地則位於聖華金山谷。 有一些用於水果和蔬菜生產的產品，包括增加國外市場准入和營養計劃，但該部門沒有任何鼓勵過度生產的補貼。 隨著公司進入第二季度，我們繼續看到下一季主要作物的成熟度取得良好進展。與前一年受到生長季節重疊的不利影響不同，我們看到[聽不清楚]其正常生產期，這對於我們最重要的作物（鮮食葡萄）的有序市場來說應該是怎樣的。我們也繼續看到我們的主要零售客戶群改進了季前計劃。 再次強調，透過專注於消費者喜愛的產品來推動頂級品類的成長，我認為你們中的大多數人現在都是我們研發活動的重點。 我們在埃及的農業發展也取得了良好進展。 我們在那裡有 300 到 400 英畝的水果試驗（樹？）。 最——這一發展的最重要標準之一是水果生產的時間，我們預計水果生產的時間將是早季，並且要早於歐洲的生產時間，從我們在過去三年中所看到的情況來看，四個星期，生產時間線非常符合我們的預期。 這非常令人鼓舞。因此，當你將這些事情與我們迄今為止開發的國內專有作物（包括我們的早熟桃子計劃、黑鑽李子和午夜美人鮮食葡萄）的進展結合起來時，我們對即將到來的季節的前景仍然感到非常鼓舞。將其傳遞給基思。

Thank you, Tim. Good morning, everybody. This was a quarter when we had certainly hoped to see the issuance of the final permit from the federal government. As recently as last 48 hours, they have told us that the issuance is imminent, to given that previously I have told you it should be out within a few weeks, and it took longer, -- to them maybe imminent means a few weeks, I don't know. But we are told it is imminent in its issuance, so we look forward to talking to you all as soon as that is out. One positive development on the permitting process during the quarter was the issuance by the department of fish and wildlife, the federal department of fish and wildlife, that issued an opinion that the Cadiz program fully complied with the endangered species act and posed no harm whatsoever to any endangered species or frankly any species at all. This is very positive in two senses. You need this opinion prior to the issuance of the final permit from the federal government. Secondly, I can't recall another significant water program that's under contemplation in California that will be able to comply fully with the endangered species act without requesting waivers and all sorts of transactions that will be required for the waivers IDD San Diego deal, some of the other storage programs that metropolitan is contemplating, all have significant endangered species act issues. And thirdly, it takes away in our view the majority of the baseless accusations that have been made that the program may cause some significant harm to primarily the desert tore toys. The finding actually found that the desert tore toys species was likely to be increased in its protection by operation of this program not decreased, so a terrific opinion from them. And as I say, I wish I was sitting here today telling you that the route who been issued, but we are told that it is imminent. All we can rely on now is that we do get that in the coming very very short period of time. A couple of other things that we talked on the last call where water pricing has been going. I would think the most interesting indication on pricing during this particular quarter came from the statements that imperial irrigation district filed with the state in their hearings for their transfer, they had previously been talking about on unfarmed conservation water transfer. What we mean by that is they would put in various equipment into their irrigation systems to where they continue to farm the same amount of acreage, but save some of the water through these highly efficient irrigation systems that they currently don't use. The problem with that is twofold, one is the cost of doing it is significant, and secondly, the environmental effects on the satellite and sea in particular are considerable. So the whole talk is now moved to in order for that transfer to happen, probably the farmers down this have to agree to fallow a percentage of their land and in testimony filed in state court to support this particular transfer, IDD said they would need approximately double the purchase price being offered by San Diego to make the deal work, so they're you're talking about farmers wanting almost $500 an acre foot net in order to be able to fallow in what's considered to be still the corner stone of California's water transfer policy, so once again, I think it's just indicative of the output pressure on -- upward pressure on prices that is caused by the fact that almost no transactions have made it through the permitting process yet and yet demand just continues to move very strongly. One other issue that I think is going to have a strong effect on pricing. I'm sure a lot of you have seen during the winter the continued stories about the drought in the northeast. But really the very big story for us out here, we've had a very dry winter, but the big story for us out here is the drought that's taken place in the Colorado and New Mexico regions and that is absolutely critical because California is looking to get that surplus water from those areas. And all of a sudden you've got real attention by those areas on the fact that they are going to need their own water supply for the long term and so the notion of handing it over to California for any period of time is not attractive, so, once again, we just continue to see the fundamentals moving absolutely in the direction we want, and we so very much look forward to issuing the statement on the rod and talking to you all again at that time. Finally, before I open it up to questions, as Tim said, we're very pleased with the progress on the KADCO situation down in Egypt. We are still working our way through all of the different regulatory issues. I'm going back again next week. So we continue to progress at that transaction as well as we had previously discussed. So with that, I think the best thing to do is to open it up to questions.

謝謝你，提姆。大家早安。在這個季度，我們當然希望看到聯邦政府頒發最終許可證。就在最近 48 小時，他們告訴我們即將發行，因為之前我已經告訴過你它應該在幾週內發行，而且花了更長的時間，--對他們來說，也許即將發行意味著幾週，我不知道。但我們被告知它即將發行，因此我們期待在發行後儘快與大家交談。本季度許可程序的一個積極進展是聯邦魚類和野生動物部門發布了一份意見，認為加的斯計劃完全符合瀕危物種法，不會對野生動物造成任何損害。地說任何物種。這在兩個意義上都是非常正面的。在聯邦政府頒發最終許可證之前，您需要此意見。 其次，我不記得加州正在考慮的另一個重要水計劃將能夠完全遵守瀕危物種法案，而無需請求豁免以及 IDD 聖地亞哥協議豁免所需的各種交易，其中一些大都市正在考慮的其他儲存計劃都存在嚴重的瀕危物種法問題。 第三，我們認為，它消除了大多數毫無根據的指控，即該計劃可能會對主要是沙漠撕裂玩具造成一些重大傷害。研究結果實際上發現，透過該計劃的實施，沙漠撕裂玩具物種的保護可能會增加而不是減少，因此他們提出了很好的意見。正如我所說，我希望我今天坐在這裡告訴你們該路線已經發布，但我們被告知它即將發布。我們現在可以信賴的是，我們確實會在未來非常非常短的時間內實現這一目標。 我們在上次電話會議上討論了水價的其他一些問題。 我認為這個特定季度最有趣的定價跡象來自帝國灌區在調水聽證會上向州政府提交的聲明，他們之前一直在談論非農業保護水調水。 我們的意思是，他們會在灌溉系統中安裝各種設備，繼續耕種相同面積的土地，但透過他們目前不使用的這些高效灌溉系統節省了一些水。這樣做的問題是雙重的，一是這樣做的成本很高，二是對衛星和海洋的環境影響尤其嚴重。 因此，為了實現這一轉移，整個談話現在轉移到了，可能農民必須同意休耕一部分土地，並且在向州法院提交的證詞中支持這一特定轉移，IDD 表示，他們需要大約聖地亞哥為使交易成功而提出的購買價格加倍，所以他們說的是農民想要每英畝近500 美元的淨土地面積，以便能夠在被認為仍然是加州基石的土地上休耕。產出壓力－價格上行壓力，這是由於幾乎沒有交易通過許可程序而造成的，但需求卻繼續大幅增長。 我認為另一個問題將對定價產生重大影響。 我相信很多人都看過冬天持續不斷的關於東北乾旱的故事。 但對我們來說，真正重要的是，我們經歷了一個非常乾燥的冬天，但對我們來說，最重要的是科羅拉多州和新墨西哥州地區發生的乾旱，這絕對是至關重要的，因為加州正在尋找從這些地區獲取多餘的水。 突然之間，這些地區真正注意到了這樣一個事實：他們將長期需要自己的供水，因此在任何一段時間內將其移交給加州的想法都沒有吸引力，因此，我們再次看到基本面絕對朝著我們想要的方向發展，我們非常期待屆時發表聲明並再次與大家交談。 最後，在我提出問題之前，正如提姆所說，我們對埃及 KADCO 局勢的進展感到非常高興。 我們仍在努力解決所有不同的監管問題。我下週再回去。因此，我們將繼續按照我們之前討論的方式來推進該交易。因此，我認為最好的方法就是提出問題。

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you would like to register for a question, you will need to press the 1 followed by the 4 on your telephone. If you are use ago speaker phone, please lift your hand set before entering your request. One moment please for the first question. Your first questions comes from Mike Crawford with B. Riley & Company. Please go ahead.

謝謝。女士們、先生們，如果您想登記提問，您需要按電話上的 1，然後按 4。如果您使用先前的免持電話，請在輸入請求之前拿起聽筒。請稍等一下第一個問題。您的第一個問題來自 B. Riley & Company 的 Mike Crawford。請繼續。

Keith, good morning. Could you give us an estimate of how long you think it's going to get through the regulatory issues in Egypt and when this KADCO transaction might close?

基思，早安。 您能否為我們估計您認為需要多長時間才能解決埃及的監管問題以及 KADCO 交易何時可能完成？

We had previously said that we expected it to close, you know, we hoped that it would close by the end of the second quarter. I think that's going to slip a loyal. You know, we could [inaudible] if you concede on the points, you can get through the issues a lot quicker, so I think it depends how we go in these discussions on the regulatory issues and others, but, you know, we certainly believe that in the coming months, we will have had everything resolved and be in a position to close.

我們之前說過，我們預計它會關閉，你知道，我們希望它會在第二季末關閉。我認為這會失去忠誠。你知道，如果你在這些觀點上讓步，我們可以[聽不清楚]，你可以更快地解決問題，所以我認為這取決於我們如何就監管問題和其他問題進行討論，但是，你知道，我們當然相信在接下來的幾個月裡，我們將解決所有問題並準備關閉。

Okay. And can you provide any further detail on the structure of the enterprise you're starting in the Mideast.

好的。您能否提供有關您在中東創辦的企業結構的更多詳細資訊？

I would certainly hope to be able to do that by the next call, and perhaps even in the intervening period.

我當然希望能夠在下一次電話會議之前甚至在中間的時間內做到這一點。

Okay. And then one final KADCO question, about how much are the current operating costs at KADCO and how is that expected to increase over time?

好的。最後一個 KADCO 問題是，KADCO 目前的營運成本是多少？

Right now it's in the development phase, so what we've got on the ground or 300 or 400 acres that are really a mish mash of trials, two or three acres of each product, so most of the costs that are down there at least for the next two to three years are all going to be associated with project and development, bidding, construction and the like, so there's very little operating costs down there at this stage. When the project is up and running, what we would expect, compared to our operations here, you know, you should have at least a 50% less labor cost component in our -- you know, in our production cost, of about 25% decrease, and to the extent the dollar continues to get stronger, which it has against the Egyptian currencies, that spread will increase.

現在正處於開發階段，所以我們在地面上所擁有的 300 或 400 英畝土地實際上是各種試驗的混合體，每種產品有兩到三英畝，所以至少大部分成本都在那裡未來兩到三年都是專案開發、招標、施工等，所以現階段營運成本很少。 當專案啟動並運行時，我們所期望的，與我們在這裡的營運相比，您知道，我們的生產成本中的勞動力成本部分應該至少減少 50%，大約為 25%如果美元兌埃及貨幣繼續走強，則利差將會增加。

Tim, you mentioned a million units of Sun World and 9.2 average selling price before cooling, so I take it that the numbers reported are net of cooling?

提姆，您提到太陽世界有 100 萬台，冷卻前的平均售價為 9.2，所以我認為報告的數字是扣除冷卻後的數字？

Yes. We tend to, I guess, each time when I mention these -- I think I mentioned them each quarter, the prices, I just wanted to make sure -- yes, there's a charge, an an add-on charge, it depends on the product, but with grapes and [inaudible], it's $1.85, so it's a loaded price to retail is up to $1.85 higher than the price FOB that I quoted.

是的。 我想，每次我提到這些時，我們都會傾向於——我想我每個季度都會提到它們，價格，我只是想確定一下——是的，有收費，附加費，這取決於該產品，但加上葡萄和[聽不清楚]，價格為1.85 美元，因此零售價比我報的離岸價高出1.85 美元。

Can you help me in reconciling 1.75 million in revenues, what looks like should be 1.92 million?

你能幫我核對一下175萬的收入嗎，看起來應該是192萬？

Yeah. Part of the problem is we had a lot of outside units in the quarter, so you can't just take the units, and multiply it by the price because when we handle outside units, we're only making a fee to pack in to ship so it's more like a $3 or $4 revenue item versus our own internal product which may be 10, 11, $12 number, so that's where you get to the average that's somewhere in between. It will become a loss year as we moved into the next two quarters, because then it starts to become company farm products.

是的。 部分問題是我們本季有很多外部單位，所以你不能只拿這些單位，然後將其乘以價格，因為當我們處理外部單位時，我們只是收取打包費用所以它更像是3 或4 美元的收入項目，而我們自己的內部產品可能是10、11、12 美元，所以這就是你得到介於兩者之間的平均值的地方。 當我們進入接下來的兩個季度時，它將成為虧損的一年，因為那時它開始成為公司的農產品。

One quick question on the farming. It looks like we're entering more normal production windows. You know, how telling is this first quarter given that the majority of the harvest is later?

一個關於農業的簡單問題。看起來我們正在進入一個更正常的生產窗口。您知道，考慮到大部分收穫都是在稍後進行的，第一季的情況有多重要？

Well, right now, we're going to begin harvesting grapes early next week, and from -- if you go back to last year and look at the timing, that's about two weeks earlier than last year. So the way the crop looks in the Cochella [phonetic] valley, it will be back on plan. Last year it was two weeks late and what ended up happening that late start coupled with an early San Joaquin [phonetic] valley in July caused a huge overlap, so we know Cochella [phonetic] is on target and from the San Joaquin [phonetic] that's not any earlier, in fact it's a few days later than last year, again, if normal means anything, we're very much on track for something that should provide for an orderly marketing and for dramatic improvement in our operations.

好吧，現在，我們將從下週初開始收穫葡萄，如果你回到去年看看時間，會比去年早大約兩週。因此，從科切拉（Cochella）山谷的作物情況來看，它將恢復計劃。去年晚了兩週，最終發生的事情是起步較晚，加上7 月份早期的聖華金[音] 山谷，造成了巨大的重疊，所以我們知道科切拉(音) 正中目標，來自聖華金[音]這並不早，事實上比去年晚了幾天，如果正常意味著什麼的話，我們非常有望實現有序的營銷和運營的顯著改善。

All right. Thanks a lot.

好的。多謝。

Your next question comes from Debra Boyle [Phonetic] of Schwab capital markets.

您的下一個問題來自施瓦布資本市場的黛布拉·博伊爾（Debra Boyle）。

Good morning, guys. A couple of questions, Tim, just to followup on that. I mean, it sounds like, I know you can't say for sure what the weather and pricing is going to be like for the rest of the year, but is it fair to say that we may potentially be back on track as best your crystal ball will tell you to, back at the $20 million level of EBITDA at Sun World that we saw a couple of years ago?

早安，夥計們。提姆，有幾個問題只是為了跟進。 我的意思是，聽起來，我知道你無法確定今年剩餘時間的天氣和價格情況，但可以公平地說，我們可能會回到最好的軌道。看到的太陽世界2000 萬美元的EBITDA 水準嗎？

I see no reason why we -- why that won't happen at this stage. So the crystal ball or whatever the crystal ball is worth is saying very good things at this stage.

我看不出我們有什麼理由──為什麼在現階段不會發生這種事。所以水晶球或水晶球的任何價值在這個階段都在說非常好的事情。

Better than or in the back to the same 1998, 1999 kind of range.

好於或回到相同的 1998 年、1999 年那種範圍。

What's your next question, Debra?

你的下一個問題是什麼，黛布拉？

Okay. That's very helpful. On the water side, Keith, if we go back to looking at how we've been [inaudible] project for some time on an MVP basis and [inaudible] piece $230 pricing we've been using, and then the third party pricing, as you said, the pricing pressures appear to continue to be going up. Is it also then fair to say that we might say higher than $350 per acre price for the third party purchases and the continue to look at so-called market price that net 0 would start indexing toward?

好的。這非常有幫助。 在水方面，Keith，如果我們回顧一下我們如何以 MVP 為基礎進行 [聽不清] 項目，以及我們一直使用的 [聽不清] 230 美元的定價，然後是第三方定價，正如您所說，定價壓力似乎持續上升。 那麼，我們可能會說第三方購買的價格高於每英畝 350 美元，並繼續關注淨 0 將開始指數化的所謂市場價格，這樣說是否公平？

Well, as you -- at the moment, look at a single fundamental that would indicate that in the foreseeable future, this price is going down. And all indications are, as you see from every one of these, you know, statements that get filed or transactions that are being contemplated, we talked about the desterilization issue on the last one, you know, don't forget again, the contract is split into two parts. Metropolitan here is going to end up with a very advantageous contract in the early years to itself, because, you know, they got in and negotiated an early price with us. It has an annual collar, it only goes up 50% of the market, so metropolitan I think is going to be extremely pleased with the way this has gone, but certainly as far as third party sales, I mean, you probably read that new hall lost its case in the state Supreme Court, they have to go out and find the water, they appealed it all the way to the Supreme Court and lost it. You have the IID testimony that's there. I think the droughts in the middle of the country are probably more important than anything else that's going on in terms of pricing pressures, so I don't want to give you an exact number, but you know, it's looking very, very good at this stage in terms of pricing.

好吧，正如您目前所看到的一個基本面，它表明在可預見的未來，這個價格將會下降。所有的跡象，正如你從每一項中看到的，你知道，已提交的報表或正在考慮的交易，我們在最後一項中討論了滅菌問題，你知道，不要再忘記，合約分為兩部分。大都會在最初的幾年裡最終會獲得一份對自己來說非常有利的合同，因為，你知道，他們介入並與我們協商了早期的價格。 它有一個年度領子，它只佔市場的 50%，所以我認為大都市會對它的發展方式感到非常滿意，但當然就第三方銷售而言，我的意思是，你可能會讀到新的霍爾在州最高法院敗訴了，他們不得不出去尋找水源，他們一路上訴到最高法院，但敗訴了。 你有 IID 證詞。 我認為就價格壓力而言，該國中部的乾旱可能比其他任何事情都更重要，所以我不想給你一個確切的數字，但你知道，它看起來非常非常好這個階段在定價方面。

Okay. And then just to walk through the potential timing, the -- assuming that the rod does come out, say, by June, we would look at -- we would look at a met vote then in August; is that roughly what we're kind of talking about now.

好的。然後，為了了解潛在的時間安排，假設棒子確實出來了，比如說，到六月，我們會看看，然後在八月進行一次會議投票；這就是我們現在正在談論的大致內容。

Again, it depends on each day, and I don't want everybody, you know, agonizing over each meeting date, but simply waste going to happen is after the rod comes out and that I have said within 30 days, they will hold their workshop on the E.I.R. At the following meeting, they will review the contracts and at the subsequent meeting take everything to a vote, so you know, that could be July. I mean, June and July, it could be July and August, but let's just see how -- the dates of when this thing comes out.

再說一次，這取決於每一天，我不希望每個人，你知道，為每個會議日期而苦惱，但簡單的浪費就是在棒出來後發生，我說過在 30 天內，他們將保留他們的E.I.R.研討會在接下來的會議上，他們將審查合同，並在隨後的會議上對所有內容進行投票，所以你知道，那可能是七月。我的意思是，六月和七月，可能是七月和八月，但讓我們看看如何——這件事發布的日期。

Okay. Fair enough. Can you give us an update of what we're hearing on the opposition front? Obviously as you said the endangered species issue should be put to rest and I have seen less press coverage and press releases from the environmental groups, but there still seems to be some view of potential litigation from the environmental groups, and also some view that senator Feinstein has not completory come around to supporting this. What's your view on the position of the opposition at this point?

好的。很公平。您能否向我們介紹一下我們在反對派方面聽到的最新情況？顯然，正如您所說，瀕危物種問題應該得到解決，我看到環保組織的新聞報道和新聞稿較少，但似乎仍然有一些觀點認為環保組織可能會提起訴訟，也有一些觀點認為參議員范斯坦還沒有完全同意這一點。您對反對派目前的立場有何看法？

Well, I think let's wait and see, you know, I think if we get a record of decision from the federal government, that's the federal blowing, that that's the issue. I think the federal government have taken their time on this because they wanted to make sure that they are fully respectful of senior senator from the state and her issues, and I believe that her concerns would have been taken care of and results through this process. And I would like to believe that those people who had honest and open concerns would also read and look at the record of decision and believe that the federal government now covered everything. You will not ever completely dismiss the opposition because, you know, in our humble opinion, there are a lot of people opposed to projects like this for all sorts of reasons that have little to do with the projects itself and I think they will continue to be out there but it gets much harder. One of the comments from one of the environmentalists is the fish and wildlife service must not have looked very hard. It's pretty bad when you're an environmentalist having to criticize the fish and wildlife service. We said the facts are on our side and let the process continue. The more open the process, the more people look, the better the results are.

好吧，我想讓我們拭目以待，你知道，我認為如果我們從聯邦政府那裡得到決策記錄，那就是聯邦政府的打擊，這就是問題所在。我認為聯邦政府在這件事上花了很多時間，因為他們想確保充分尊重該州的高級參議員和她的問題，我相信她的擔憂會在這個過程中得到解決並得到結果。我相信那些有誠實和公開擔憂的人也會閱讀和查看決策記錄，並相信聯邦政府現在涵蓋了一切。你永遠不會完全駁回反對意見，因為，你知道，以我們的愚見，有很多人出於各種與項目本身無關的原因反對這樣的項目，我認為他們將繼續在那裡，但它變得更加困難。一位環保人士的評論之一是，魚類和野生動物服務看起來一定不是很困難。當你是環保人士不得不批評魚類和野生動物服務時，這是非常糟糕的。我們說事實是站在我們這邊的，讓這個過程繼續下去。過程越開放，看的人越多，結果越好。

Okay. And then just coming back to the ongoing negotiations with KADCO, can you give us any more color, without the specifics, what the regulatory issues are subject to negotiation?

好的。然後回到與 KADCO 正在進行的談判，您能否給我們更多信息，但沒有具體說明，需要談判哪些監管問題？

Yeah.

是的。

I think the easiest way to say it is this is an unusual transaction for Egypt in the sense that they had set up really a special purpose vehicle for prince Alwaleed's country and it's now merging with us and so there's the issue of transfer of some of those concessions, there's a lot of taxation issues. There are those types of things that we have to go through and frankly there are still some things that we believe that the government of Egypt has to step up to the plate on.

我認為最簡單的說法是，這對埃及來說是一筆不尋常的交易，因為他們實際上為阿爾瓦利德王子的國家建立了一個特殊目的工具，現在它正在與我們合併，因此存在其中一些資產的轉讓問題優惠，還有很多稅務問題。 我們必須經歷這些類型的事情，坦白說，我們仍然認為埃及政府必須解決一些問題。

In terms of looking at the recapitalization of the company, should these issues become difficult to resolve, should they take longer, significantly longer than you expected, is there a call it a plan B, a backup plan for recapitalization for financial restructuring given that your Sun World high yield debt is callable this month I believe?

在考慮公司的資本重組方面，如果這些問題變得難以解決，如果它們需要更長的時間，明顯比你預期的時間長，是否有一個稱為B計劃，即財務重組資本重組的備用計劃，因為你的公司我相信太陽世界高收益債券本月可以贖回嗎？

Well, callable by us.

好吧，我們可以調用。

Right, callable by you at a premium.

是的，您可以溢價贖回。

Very much so. I mean, I think that one of the things that publicity that the company has garnered over the course of the last several months, be it on the world side, be it, you know, on the KADCO side or whatever, it certainly put us in a position where we received a lot of different levels of interest from people and so, you know, there's very much a plan B. I wouldn't want you to take away from that that we don't therefore think that we're going to go ahead and complete the other transaction, but there is -- there's very much a plan as far as that's concerned.

非常如此。 我的意思是，我認為公司在過去幾個月中獲得的宣傳之一，無論是在世界範圍內，還是在 KADCO 方面或其他方面，它肯定讓我們我們收到了人們很多不同程度的興趣，所以，你知道，有很多B 計劃。

That's what I wanted to get at. Should for whatever reason we can't predict at this point the other transaction have a problem that we would still assume that we would see the debt restructuring by the end of the year, according to the original plan, and that's my line.

這就是我想要達到的目的。 如果出於某種原因，我們目前無法預測其他交易存在問題，我們仍然會假設我們將根據最初的計劃在年底前看到債務重組，這就是我的觀點。

Yeah, I will look at exact timing because here the bonds aren't due until middle of 2004. But one of the things people have discussed exhaustively the last two years it has not performed at income levels to that we would have hoped and therefore people have somewhat -- not focused so much on the asset base. I think that this year in particular will highlight the real underlying value of that asset base in two ways. Number one, it looks as if everybody is going to enjoy a much better year, and secondly, as Tim just pointed out, [inaudible] will have a serious underpinning of value of land to earnings.

是的，我會考慮確切的時間，因為這裡的債券要到2004 年中期才到期。 ，因此人們在某種程度上，不太關注資產基礎。我認為今年尤其會透過兩種方式凸顯該資產基礎的真正潛在價值。 第一，看起來每個人都會享受更好的一年，其次，正如蒂姆剛才指出的那樣，[聽不清楚]土地價值與收入之間的關係將得到強有力的支撐。

Okay. That helps, thanks.

好的。這有幫助，謝謝。

Next question comes from [inaudible] Bronx, I.N.G., please go ahead.

下一個問題來自[聽不清楚]布朗克斯，I.N.G.，請繼續。

Hi, Keith, hi Stan. Two questions, one, in regard to the performance over the last two years at Sun World, tell us what type of liquidity you have.

嗨，基思，嗨斯坦。有兩個問題，一是關於太陽世界過去兩年的表現，告訴我們你有什麼類型的流動性。

Seasonal resolver we have in place, we have a $30 million seasonal resolver at Harris bank with Sun World and that is more adequate to get us through our seasonal working capital needs.

我們已經制定了季節性解決方案，我們在哈里斯銀行和 Sun World 擁有價值 3000 萬美元的季節性解決方案，這更足以滿足我們的季節性營運資金需求。

How does that compare to the facility you had a year ago.

與一年前的設施相比如何？

Basically the same facility.

設施基本相同。

The second question, in reading as it relates to KADCO, Keith, in reading the caveats in your press release today, I didn't have an opportunity to check back, I saw one of the last caveats in the paragraphs relates to your Egyptian partner raising equity and we've recognized that there needs to be some more capital raised in order to refinancing the high yield notes. Is this a new caveat?

第二個問題，在閱讀與KADCO 相關的內容時，基思，在閱讀您今天新聞稿中的警告時，我沒有機會回頭查看，我看到段落中的最後警告之一與您的埃及合作夥伴有關籌集股本，我們意識到需要籌集更多資金才能為高收益債券進行再融資。這是一個新的警告嗎？

Or is the same paragraph.

或者是同一段。

Identical paragraph that came out in the press release and the last quarterly earnings and it's the identical one. It's the same set of issues.

新聞稿和上一季收益中出現的相同段落是相同的。 這是同一組問題。

We're continuing to go through that and look at the various alternatives how we're going to get that down.

我們將繼續研究這個問題，並研究各種替代方案，以解決這個問題。

But we believe the alternative exists.

但我們相信替代方案是存在的。

Once again, if there are questions, you need to press the 1 followed by the 4 at this time. Gentlemen, I am showing no further questions. Please continue.

再次，如果有問題，此時需要按1，然後按4。先生們，我不再提出任何問題。請繼續。

Well, thank you once again for your time and we look forward to talking to you very shortly about the federal decision. Thank you very much and good morning.

好吧，再次感謝您抽出寶貴時間，我們期待很快與您討論聯邦決定。非常感謝，早安。