Chemours Co (CC) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning. My name is Jericho, and I will be your conference operator today. I would like to welcome everyone to The Chemours Company second-quarter 2025 results conference call. (Operator Instructions) I would like to remind everyone that this conference call is being recorded.

早安.我叫傑里科，今天我將擔任你們的會議主持人。歡迎大家參加科慕公司 2025 年第二季業績電話會議。（操作員指示）我想提醒大家，本次電話會議正在錄音。

I would now like to hand the conference call over to Brandon Ontjes, Vice President, Head of Strategy and Investor Relations for Chemours. You may begin your conference.

現在，我想將電話會議交給科慕公司副總裁、策略和投資者關係主管 Brandon Ontjes。您可以開始您的會議了。

Good morning, everybody. Welcome to The Chemours Company's second-quarter 2025 earnings conference call. I'm joined today by Denise Dignam, Chemours' President and Chief Executive Officer; and our Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer, Shane Hostetter.

大家早安。歡迎參加科慕公司 2025 年第二季財報電話會議。今天與我一起出席的還有科慕總裁兼執行長 Denise Dignam 和資深副總裁兼財務長 Shane Hostetter。

Before we start, I would like to remind you that the comments made on this call, as well as in the supplemental information provided on our website, contain forward-looking statements that involve risks and uncertainties as described in Chemours' SEC filings. These forward-looking statements are not guarantees of future performance and are based on certain assumptions and expectations of future events that may not be realized. Actual results may differ, and Chemours undertakes no duty to update any forward-looking statements as a result of future developments or new information.

在我們開始之前，我想提醒您，本次電話會議中發表的評論以及我們網站上提供的補充資訊包含前瞻性陳述，涉及科慕公司向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中所述的風險和不確定性。這些前瞻性陳述並非對未來績效的保證，而是基於對可能無法實現的未來事件的某些假設和預期。實際結果可能有所不同，科慕不承擔因未來發展或新資訊而更新任何前瞻性陳述的義務。

During the course of this call, we will refer to certain non-GAAP financial measures that we believe are useful to investors evaluating the company's performance. A reconciliation of non-GAAP terms and adjustments is included in our press release issued yesterday evening.

在本次電話會議中，我們將參考一些我們認為對投資者評估公司績效有用的非公認會計準則財務指標。我們昨天晚上發布的新聞稿中包含了非公認會計準則條款和調整的對帳。

Additionally, we also posted our earnings presentation and prepared financial remarks on our website yesterday evening. The prepared financial remarks are intended to largely replace management's quarterly financial prepared remarks, allowing for additional time for your questions.

此外，我們昨晚還在我們的網站上發布了收益報告和準備好的財務評論。準備好的財務評論旨在在很大程度上取代管理層的季度財務準備好的評論，從而為您提供更多時間來回答您的問題。

With that, I will turn the call over to Denise Dignam.

說完這些，我會把電話轉給 Denise Dignam。

Thank you, Brandon, and thank you, everyone, for joining us. During today's call, I will begin by discussing our second-quarter performance, including meaningful progress on our Pathway to Thrive strategy. I'll then turn it over to Shane, who will provide details around our outlook. Finally, I will share some closing remarks before taking your questions.

謝謝你，布蘭登，也謝謝大家加入我們。在今天的電話會議上，我將首先討論我們第二季度的業績，包括我們的「繁榮之路」策略取得的重大進展。然後我將把話題交給 Shane，他將提供有關我們展望的詳細資訊。最後，在回答大家的提問之前，我將發表一些結束語。

As you saw in our announcement on August 4, we reached a settlement with the State of New Jersey, continuing the notable progress we've made under our Strengthening the Long Term pillar of Chemours' Pathway to Thrive strategy. The settlement reached with New Jersey, announced with DuPont and Corteva, is a significant step forward as it resolves all environmental claims, including those related to PFAS, across four current and former operating sites and all statewide claims. Chemours' share of the settlement on a net present value basis is approximately $250 million, reflecting a 25-year payment timeframe.

正如您在我們 8 月 4 日的公告中看到的那樣，我們與新澤西州達成了和解，延續了我們在加強科慕繁榮之路戰略的長期支柱下所取得的顯著進展。杜邦公司和科迪華公司宣布與新澤西州達成和解，這是向前邁出的重要一步，因為它解決了四個現有和以前的營運地點以及全州範圍內的所有環境索賠，包括與 PFAS 相關的索賠。以淨現值計算，科慕在和解協議中所佔份額約為 2.5 億美元，付款期限為 25 年。

In connection with this settlement, earlier this week, Chemours also established a new agreement with DuPont and Corteva to acquire the rights to Chemours' insurance proceeds, which would provide approximately $150 million to fund the payments for the New Jersey settlement. The combination of these insurance proceeds and the release of approximately $50 million in restricted cash from the 2021 MOU escrow accounts fully funds $200 million of Chemours' New Jersey payment obligation, which covers our obligations through at least 2030.

與此和解相關，本週早些時候，科慕還與杜邦和科迪華達成了一項新協議，以獲得科慕保險收益的權利，這將為新澤西州的和解提供約 1.5 億美元的資金。這些保險收益加上從 2021 年 MOU 託管帳戶中釋放的約 5,000 萬美元受限現金，將為科慕公司在新澤西州的 2 億美元付款義務提供全額資金，該款項涵蓋我們至少到 2030 年的義務。

The present value of payments remaining after 2030 by Chemours for the New Jersey settlement, not considering the potential for additional insurance recoveries, is approximately $80 million. This settlement is a meaningful step forward in our continued efforts to address the overall legacy PFAS and other environmental claims. We will continue to work in partnership with DuPont and Corteva to resolve such matters in the best interest of our stakeholders.

不考慮額外保險賠償的可能性，科慕公司 2030 年後為新澤西州和解所支付的剩餘款項的現值約為 8,000 萬美元。此次和解是我們繼續努力解決整體遺留 PFAS 問題和其他環境問題的重要一步。我們將繼續與杜邦和科迪華合作解決此類問題，以符合我們利益相關者的最佳利益。

In addition to this achievement, we also delivered strong second-quarter results, surpassing our expectations with improved performance across each of our three businesses. In closing out the quarter, our results came in stronger, driven by the following: increased demand for Opteon tied to the 2025 transition; TT sales ahead of our expectations with sequential volume growth across all of our regions; and favorable pricing in APM from Performance Solutions in new higher-value applications, as well as solid sales execution for our SPS Capstone product line wind-down, which is on track for the third quarter.

除了這項成就之外，我們還取得了強勁的第二季業績，超出了我們的預期，三大業務的業績均有所提升。在本季結束時，我們的業績表現更為強勁，主要得益於以下因素：與 2025 年轉型相關的 Opteon 需求增加；TT 銷售額超出我們的預期，所有地區的銷量均實現連續增長；性能解決方案在新的高價值應用中為 APM 提供了優惠價格，同時我們的 SPS Capstone 產品線穩健計劃，預計第三季度將按計劃執行。

However, with this strong momentum, we must acknowledge that we've had a significant impact from discrete operational issues in TT and APM, most of which were caused by external events, but some were due to controllable operational matters. We've taken action to address these issues, which I will speak to later in the call.

然而，在這種強勁勢頭下，我們必須承認，TT 和 APM 中的離散營運問題對我們產生了重大影響，其中大部分是由外部事件引起的，但有些是由於可控的營運問題造成的。我們已經採取行動解決這些問題，我將在稍後的電話會議中討論這些問題。

Now turning to each segment's performance in the quarter, starting with TSS. Our TSS business delivered another impressive quarter, driven by continued momentum in the transition to Opteon refrigerants. Net sales of Opteon refrigerants grew 65% year over year, supported by seasonal demand and the impact of the 2025 US AIM Act transition mandate for residential and light commercial stationary air conditioning. This performance contributed to a 35% adjusted EBITDA margin, underscoring the strength of our differentiated portfolio and ability to capture profitable growth as the market continues to shift towards lower global warming potential solutions.

現在來看看本季每個部門的表現，從 TSS 開始。在向 Opteon 冷媒持續轉型的推動下，我們的 TSS 業務又取得了令人印象深刻的季度業績。受季節性需求以及 2025 年美國 AIM 法案對住宅和輕型商用固定空調的過渡要求的影響，Opteon 冷媒的淨銷售額年增 65%。這一業績促成了 35% 的調整後 EBITDA 利潤率，凸顯了我們差異化產品組合的實力以及在市場繼續轉向較低全球暖化潛力解決方案時實現盈利增長的能力。

While in the last quarter, we highlighted challenges in the air conditioning aftermarket around cylinder constraints and product availability, I am proud of the TSS's team's ability to remain steadfast and customer-focused during this time. As a point of emphasis, our team's ability to be resourceful and solutions-focused to meet the needs of our customers was key to delivering these better-than-expected results.

雖然在上個季度，我們強調了空調售後市場在氣缸限制和產品可用性方面面臨的挑戰，但我為 TSS 團隊在此期間保持堅定和以客戶為中心感到自豪。需要強調的是，我們的團隊能夠足智多謀、專注於解決方案以滿足客戶的需求，這是超越預期成果的關鍵。

Looking ahead, we expect continued Opteon demand growth in the second half, moderated by typical seasonality with an unwavering, strong regulatory framework to drive the transition within additional stationary subsectors. Driven by this transition, at the end of the second quarter, we're now seeing Opteon refrigerants make up 75% of total refrigerants revenues, up from 57% in the prior year quarter, with superior positioning in the market.

展望未來，我們預計下半年 Opteon 需求將持續成長，受典型的季節性因素影響，堅定且強而有力的監管框架將推動更多固定子產業的轉型。在這一轉變的推動下，截至第二季末，Opteon冷媒佔冷媒總收入的75%，高於去年同期的57%，在市場上佔據了優勢地位。

One area I also want to highlight is around the ramp-up of our Opteon YF capacity expansion at our Corpus Christi site. This important investment has been key to securing the capacity to be able to support the growth we're experiencing during this regulatory transition. Through the second quarter, we remain ahead of our target of half the overall expansion projects we plan to have available this year.

我還想強調的一個領域是我們在科珀斯克里斯蒂工廠的 Opteon YF 產能擴張的提升。這項重要投資對於確保我們在監管轉型期間能夠支持成長的能力至關重要。到第二季度，我們仍然領先今年計劃完成的一半擴張項目的目標。

This team's ability to drive this performance is a clear illustration of our strategic execution under our Operational Excellence pillar and what we're looking to achieve across all of our sites. To this, a big thank you to all those at our Corpus site who have been part of driving this performance and remain focused on our continued ramp-up efforts. Altogether, an industry-leading performance from TSS, outpacing our Q2 expectations and setting a solid foundation for the second half.

該團隊推動這一業績的能力清楚地表明了我們在卓越營運支柱下的策略執行以及我們希望在所有站點實現的目標。在此，我們要向 Corpus 站點的所有人表示衷心的感謝，他們為推動這一業績做出了貢獻，並繼續關注著我們持續的提升工作。總而言之，TSS 的表現處於行業領先地位，超出了我們對第二季度的預期，並為下半年奠定了堅實的基礎。

Moving to TT. In the second quarter, TT delivered overall results ahead of our previous guidance, with sequential net sales of 10% supported by increased volumes of 9%, paired with overall flat pricing. In this weaker demand environment, our team executed well, securing increased volume across all of our regions.

移至 TT。在第二季度，TT 的整體業績超出了我們先前的預期，淨銷售額環比增長 10%，銷量增長 9%，同時整體價格持平。在這種需求較弱的環境下，我們的團隊表現出色，確保了所有地區的銷售量都有所增加。

While we are proud of this result, we've had some discrete operational issues, one being the rail line service interruption, which is now resolved, and the others caused by a gap of operational discipline in this low-demand environment. The teams have now instituted a series of actions to rectify these issues. However, we do anticipate that some of these issues will impact our third-quarter results.

雖然我們對這一結果感到自豪，但我們也遇到了一些獨立的運營問題，其中之一是鐵路線路服務中斷，目前該問題已經解決，其他問題是由於在這種低需求環境下運營紀律的差距造成的。目前，各團隊已採取一系列措施來糾正這些問題。然而，我們確實預計其中一些問題將影響我們的第三季業績。

These recent challenges to run our plants at optimal levels have taken us off our transformation plan, and a refocus on our cost-out diligence is well underway. I am confident that the team is taking the right steps to drive long-term improvements through these actions, and I will speak to the efforts we're taking through our manufacturing COE later in this call.

最近，我們面臨著以最佳水平運行工廠的挑戰，這使我們偏離了轉型計劃，我們正在重新關注成本削減的盡職調查。我相信團隊正在採取正確的步驟，透過這些行動推動長期改進，我將在稍後的電話會議中談到我們透過製造 COE 所做的努力。

From a broader market perspective, in line with our expectations from last quarter, we are beginning to see the effects of Chinese producer capacity rationalization. This change in the global supply environment, paired with recent fair trade actions, have provided opportunities in Western markets where our teams have been able to drive commercial opportunities. While we find ourselves in a challenging environment in a global market that is in transition, our team has been diligent in efforts around commercial excellence and our long-term winning strategy.

從更廣泛的市場角度來看，正如我們上個季度的預期，我們開始看到中國生產商產能合理化的效果。全球供應環境的變化，加上最近的公平貿易行動，為西方市場提供了機會，我們的團隊能夠推動商業機會。儘管我們身處轉型期全球市場充滿挑戰的環境中，但我們的團隊一直勤奮地致力於商業卓越和長期制勝策略。

Turning now to APM. Despite continued weakness in cyclical end markets impacting advanced materials and products serving the hydrogen market under Performance Solutions, APM delivered a notable performance in the second quarter. APM's performance reflects our continued focus on strategic execution under our Portfolio Management pillar, where we continue to shift our product mix to higher-value applications in growing end markets and optimize our asset footprint.

現在轉向 APM。儘管週期性終端市場持續疲軟，影響了性能解決方案旗下服務氫市場的先進材料和產品，但 APM 在第二季度仍取得了顯著的表現。APM 的績效反映了我們對投資組合管理支柱下策略執行的持續關注，我們繼續將產品組合轉向不斷增長的終端市場中更高價值的應用，並優化我們的資產足跡。

In our Performance Solutions portfolio, APM saw a sequential sales increase of 14%, driven by product sales into the data center cable market, with advanced materials seeing a 20% sequential sales increase, primarily driven by stronger pricing in the SPS Capstone product line in connection with the product line's planned exit in the third quarter. The impact of the strategic execution on our bottom line is evident in our adjusted EBITDA margin, increasing from 11% in the first quarter of 2025 to 14% in the second quarter.

在我們的性能解決方案組合中，APM 的銷售額環比增長了 14%，這得益於產品銷售進入資料中心電纜市場，而先進材料的銷售額環比增長了 20%，這主要是由於 SPS Capstone 產品線的定價更高，而該產品線計劃在第三季度退出。策略執行對我們底線的影響體現在我們的調整後 EBITDA 利潤率上，從 2025 年第一季的 11% 上升至第二季的 14%。

Our performance in the second quarter is indicative of how we view the APM business going forward, continuing to drive and improve quality of earnings across our strategic pillars with an added emphasis on Portfolio Management. However, as we move into the third quarter, I want to highlight an issue that we've had at our Washington Works site related to a local power outage.

我們第二季的業績顯示了我們如何看待 APM 業務的未來發展，我們將繼續推動和提高我們各策略支柱的獲利質量，並更加重視投資組合管理。然而，隨著我們進入第三季度，我想強調一下我們在華盛頓工廠遇到的與當地停電有關的問題。

This event caused an unplanned full shutdown of our site. After an initial restart and following further assessments, our team identified damage to a critical piece of equipment that resulted in unscheduled downtime into mid-August. When these circumstances occur, our emphasis is on the safety of our employees and our surrounding community as we work through the repairs and a planned restart. Shane will speak to the impacts on our Q3 outlook shortly.

此事件導致我們的網站意外完全關閉。在初次重新啟動並經過進一步評估後，我們的團隊發現關鍵設備受損，導致 8 月中旬出現非計劃性停機。當這些情況發生時，我們會專注於員工和周圍社區的安全，同時進行修復並按計劃重新啟動。肖恩很快就會談到對我們第三季前景的影響。

Overall, I couldn't be more proud of the execution from all of our teams in achieving these results for the second quarter, illustrating Chemours' collective focus on strategic execution. I know we will continue to keep the same focus as we move into the second half of the year.

總的來說，我對我們所有團隊在第二季度取得的這些成果感到無比自豪，這反映了科慕對策略執行的集體關注。我知道，進入下半年，我們將繼續保持同樣的關注。

With that, I'll turn it over to Shane to walk through our outlook.

接下來，我將把主題交給 Shane 來闡述我們的展望。

Thank you, Denise, and good morning, everyone. As shared in our earnings materials, as well as the supplemental prepared financial remarks available on our investor website, I would like to now discuss our expectations for the third quarter, followed by our outlook for the full year 2025.

謝謝你，丹尼斯，大家早安。正如我們的收益資料以及投資者網站上提供的補充財務評論中所分享的，我現在想討論一下我們對第三季度的預期，然後是我們對 2025 年全年的展望。

Beginning with TSS, for the third quarter, we expect TSS' net sales to decrease sequentially in the mid-single-digit percentage range, driven by traditional seasonality, primarily concentrated in our Freon refrigerants. TSS' adjusted EBITDA is also expected to decrease in the low-teens percentage range sequentially, primarily driven by the seasonality I mentioned as well as overall product mix.

從 TSS 開始，對於第三季度，我們預計 TSS 的淨銷售額將環比下降中等個位數百分比範圍，這主要受到傳統季節性因素的影響，主要集中在我們的氟利昂冷媒上。TSS 的調整後 EBITDA 預計也將環比下降 10% 左右，這主要受我提到的季節性以及整體產品組合的影響。

For our TT business, we expect TT's sequential net sales to decrease in the low-single-digit percentage range, driven by seasonality and regional sales mix, with volumes expected to remain stable. Adjusted EBITDA is expected to decline in the low-teens percentage range sequentially, due to lower sales paired with certain operational disruptions. Costs associated with these operational issues are anticipated to approximate $15 million in the third quarter. As we look past the third quarter, we expect our operations to improve, driven by broader COE efforts, which Denise will speak to later.

對於我們的 TT 業務，我們預計 TT 的連續淨銷售額將在低個位數百分比範圍內下降，受季節性和區域銷售組合的影響，預計銷量將保持穩定。由於銷售額下降和某些營運中斷，預計調整後的 EBITDA 將環比下降百分之十幾。預計第三季與這些營運問題相關的成本約為 1500 萬美元。展望第三季度，我們預計在更廣泛的 COE 努力的推動下，我們的營運將會改善，Denise 稍後會談到這一點。

For our APM business, we expect APM's net sales to decrease in the mid-teens percentage range sequentially, due to production constraints associated with the Washington Works downtime. Adjusted EBITDA is expected to approximate $15 million in the third quarter, considering the lower sales, as well as additional costs from the referenced site outage, which will approximate $20 million.

對於我們的 APM 業務，由於華盛頓工廠停工造成的生產限制，我們預計 APM 的淨銷售額將環比下降百分之十幾左右。考慮到銷售額下降以及所提及的站點中斷造成的額外成本（約為 2000 萬美元），預計第三季調整後的 EBITDA 約為 1500 萬美元。

On a consolidated basis, we anticipate our third-quarter net sales to decrease 4% to 6% sequentially, with consolidated adjusted EBITDA expected to range between $175 million to $195 million. Also, we anticipate corporate expenses to decrease approximately 5% compared to the second quarter. Our capital expenditures for the third quarter are expected to be in the range of $50 million, with free cash flow conversion expected to be between 60% and 80%.

從合併口徑來看，我們預計第三季淨銷售額將季減 4% 至 6%，合併調整後 EBITDA 預計在 1.75 億美元至 1.95 億美元之間。此外，我們預計企業支出將比第二季減少約 5%。我們第三季的資本支出預計在 5,000 萬美元左右，自由現金流轉換率預計在 60% 至 80% 之間。

Turning to the full year 2025, we expect to deliver adjusted EBITDA of $775 million to $825 million in 2025. Our capital expenditures are anticipated to approximate $250 million, and our free cash flow conversion for the second half of the year is expected to be between 60% to 80%, driven by seasonal impacts as well as improvements to our net working capital. Also, the company's overall net leverage ratio is anticipated to continue to improve throughout 2025.

展望 2025 年全年，我們預計 2025 年調整後 EBITDA 將達到 7.75 億美元至 8.25 億美元。我們的資本支出預計約為 2.5 億美元，受季節性影響以及淨營運資本改善的影響，預計下半年的自由現金流轉換率將在 60% 至 80% 之間。此外，預計該公司的整體淨槓桿率將在 2025 年繼續改善。

With that, I'll hand it back over to Denise for final remarks.

說完這些，我將把發言權交還給 Denise，請她做最後的評論。

Thank you, Shane. I'm proud of the significant progress we've made to date in executing our Pathway to Thrive strategy; however, we still have work to do. While we've made great strides in resolving legacy litigation this quarter, supported by overall strong business performance, Operational Excellence is a pillar where we continue to place our focus.

謝謝你，肖恩。我為我們迄今為止在執行「繁榮之路」策略方面取得的重大進展感到自豪；然而，我們仍有工作要做。雖然本季我們在解決遺留訴訟方面取得了長足進步，並受到整體強勁業務表現的支持，但卓越營運是我們繼續關注的支柱。

Our efforts have driven clear success in certain instances, as is exemplified in our ramp-up at Corpus. But while many of our recent operational impacts have been caused by outside events, we have to continue to reduce business interruptions and strengthen our resilience. We have really revved up the engagement of our manufacturing COE with my direct involvement. As a former operations leader at Chemours, knowing our asset base, I believe we have room to improve our own performance and be better prepared for the unexpected.

我們的努力在某些情況下取得了明顯的成功，正如我們在 Corpus 的擴張所證明的那樣。儘管我們最近的許多營運影響都是由外部事件造成的，但我們必須繼續減少業務中斷並增強我們的復原能力。在我的直接參與下，我們確實提高了製造業 COE 的參與度。身為科慕公司的前營運主管，我了解我們的資產基礎，我相信我們有提升自身績效的空間，並為意外情況做好更好的準備。

By engaging our COE, I've outlined our priorities in the following phases: first, realignment of experienced resources, creating more effective alignment of in-house manufacturing expertise to drive focus to the highest operational priorities in our circuit -- this phase is now complete; second, solidifying foundational capabilities, connecting people, processes, and data to enhance performance and achieve top reliability benchmarks; third, building advanced operational capabilities with more effective use of technology to enable us to be an industry-leading manufacturing enterprise. I believe these are the keys to drive improved Operational Excellence under Pathway to Thrive, ensuring we drive resilient operational consistency moving forward.

透過與 COE 合作，我已將我們的優先事項概括為以下幾個階段：首先，重新調整經驗豐富的資源，更有效地整合內部製造專業知識，將重點放在我們電路中最高的運營優先事項上——這一階段現已完成；其次，鞏固基礎能力，連接人員、流程和數據，以提高性能並實現最高的可靠性基準；第三，透過更有效地利用技術，透過更有效地利用企業的營運能力。我相信這些是推動「繁榮之路」下卓越營運的關鍵，確保我們在未來推動有彈性的營運一致性。

I want to thank all our employees for their unwavering commitment and hard work, which have been instrumental in driving our progress this quarter and advancing our Pathway to Thrive strategy. There is no question that The Chemours team's dedication to keeping our customers first and driving strategic execution ensures that we will have continued outstanding performance like we did in the current quarter.

我要感謝所有員工的堅定承諾和辛勤工作，這對推動我們本季的進展和推進我們的「繁榮之路」策略起到了重要作用。毫無疑問，科慕團隊致力於將客戶放在第一位並推動策略執行，確保我們能夠像本季一樣繼續保持出色的表現。

With that, we can now open the line up for questions.

好了，我們現在可以開始提問了。

(Operator Instructions) John McNulty, BMO Capital Markets.

（操作員指示）BMO 資本市場 John McNulty。

Yeah, good morning. Thanks for taking my question. So I guess, I wanted to dig into the outlook for the full year because based on your 3Q guide, the implications are that 4Q really doesn't have much of the usual seasonal dip. And I guess some of that's probably tied to hopefully the absence of one-time items in APM and TiO2, but it still doesn't quite bridge me there. So I guess, how should I be thinking about the good guys, the things that kind of help to offset that usual seasonal pattern from 3Q down to 4Q?

是的，早安。感謝您回答我的問題。所以我想，我想深入研究全年的前景，因為根據您的第三季指南，這意味著第四季確實不會出現太多通常的季節性下降。我猜想這可能與 APM 和 TiO2 中缺少一次性物品有關，但它仍然不能完全解決我的問題。所以我想，我應該如何考慮好人，那些有助於抵消從第三季度到第四季度的通常季節性模式的事情？

Thanks for the question, John. I'm going to turn it over to Shane to talk.

謝謝你的提問，約翰。我要把這個任務交給 Shane 來談。

Yeah. Thanks, John. As you mentioned, I mean, just doing math, we pointed to midpoint at roughly $185 million for the third quarter, and that kind of puts a midpoint at $195 million for the fourth quarter. Just to note that we had about $35 million of operational items between TT and APM in the third quarter. You add that back, which we are doing everything from an operational perspective and everything looks good so that that will not repeat into Q4, you will see a seasonal decline. I would say, as you mentioned, some of the positives that we do see for the fourth quarter that are offsetting some of that normal seasonality, I think the strength in TSS as we look ahead, as demand continues to ramp up with the regulatory change, is going to be a positive, and we'll continue to execute across both of the other businesses as well as we end the year.

是的。謝謝，約翰。正如您所提到的，我的意思是，透過計算，我們得出第三季的中點約為 1.85 億美元，而第四季的中點約為 1.95 億美元。需要注意的是，第三季 TT 和 APM 之間有價值約 3,500 萬美元的營運項目。再加上，我們從營運角度所做的一切，一切看起來都很好，所以這種情況不會在第四季度重演，你會看到季節性的下降。我想說，正如您所提到的，我們確實看到第四季度的一些積極因素抵消了一些正常的季節性因素，我認為，隨著監管變化導致需求繼續增加，展望未來，TSS 的強勁表​​現將是一個積極的信號，我們將繼續在其他兩項業務上執行，直到年底。

Okay, fair enough. And then I guess just maybe as a follow-up, maybe we can talk a little bit more about TSS. It looks like a lot of moving parts. I mean, you guys clearly blew out kind of your own expectations, our expectations, pretty much everyone's expectations on that one.

好的，很公平。然後我想也許作為後續，我們可以再多談談 TSS。它看起來有很多活動部件。我的意思是，你們顯然超越了你們自己的期望、我們的期望，幾乎超出了所有人的期望。

I guess, can you help us to unpack the drivers there? It sounds like a lot of it may have been some of the aftermarket improvement and the ability to access that or target that market. Can you speak to maybe how big that bucket was? How much was just the regulatory shift for the OEM side and maybe some of the catch-up around the raw material costs that you were dealing with with the OEMs?

我想，您能幫我們解壓縮那裡的驅動程式嗎？聽起來這在很大程度上可能是售後市場的改進以及進入或瞄準該市場的能力。你能說說那個桶子有多大嗎？對於 OEM 而言，監管變化有多大，以及您在與 OEM 打交道時在原材料成本方面採取的一些追趕措施有多大？

And I guess also to that, how much of that do you feel like is -- hesitate to say one time, but maybe might not be recurring just because of all the cylinder issues as we look to 2026? And how much of it do you think carries over and continues in terms of the strength that you're seeing?

我想，對於這一點，您覺得這種情況在多大程度上是——猶豫著說一次，但也許不會再發生，只是因為展望 2026 年時所有的氣缸問題？就您所看到的力量而言，您認為其中有多少會延續下去？

Thanks, John, for the question. Yeah, we are super proud of the TSS team for how we've executed. There's clearly the transition has come on strong, but I would say our performance, we have outperformed our expectations for the market and we have a lot of confidence.

謝謝約翰提出這個問題。是的，我們為 TSS 團隊的表現感到非常自豪。顯然，轉型已經勢頭強勁，但我想說的是，我們的業績已經超出了市場的預期，我們非常有信心。

Clearly, there was some shortage. There was some what we think is potentially some hoarding going on because of the shortages, but we still are really confident in the growth for the rest of the year and see double-digit growth throughout the year. And we have a lot of confidence going into 2026. We have to consider competitive dynamics, but I would say that, yeah, there was some hoarding, maybe a one-time issue -- short-term issue with the aftermarket, but we don't think that's going to have a big impact on the rest of the year.

顯然，存在一些短缺。我們認為，由於短缺，可能會出現一些囤積現象，但我們對今年剩餘時間的成長仍然充滿信心，並預計全年將實現兩位數的成長。我們對 2026 年充滿信心。我們必須考慮競爭動態，但我想說，是的，存在一些囤積現象，也許是一次性問題——售後市場的短期問題，但我們認為這不會對今年剩餘時間產生重大影響。

Got it. Great. Thanks very much for the color.

知道了。偉大的。非常感謝這個顏色。

Pete Osterland, Truist Securities.

皮特‧奧斯特蘭 (Pete Osterland)，Truist 證券公司。

Hey. Good morning. Thanks for taking the questions. My first question is on TT. Are your operations and earnings in that business more vulnerable to being disrupted right now, just given that you're also working on some pretty substantial cost improvement efforts? And I guess, is there any portion of your cost-cutting target that you're finding you might need to delay or cancel in order to focus on maximizing reliability?

嘿。早安.感謝您回答這些問題。我的第一個問題是關於 TT 的。鑑於您還在進行一些相當大的成本改進工作，您在該業務中的營運和收益現在是否更容易受到干擾？我想，您是否發現，為了集中精力最大限度地提高可靠性，您可能需要推遲或取消削減成本目標中的某些部分？

Hey. Thanks for the question. Yeah, absolutely. From a cost-out perspective, I would say absolutely no concerns. I don't think that there's anything relative to our cost-out efforts that have impacted the reliability of our operations. We're really focused on productivity, and we're really confident in that.

嘿。謝謝你的提問。是的，絕對是如此。從成本角度來看，我認為完全不用擔心。我認為，與我們的降低成本努力相關的任何事情都不會影響我們營運的可靠性。我們真正關注的是生產力，我們對此充滿信心。

I would say, looking at TT, the overall market is definitely a challenge, but we have a lot of confidence in our strategy. We're focused on our cost-out driving to lowest cost, gaining share in fair trade markets. We definitely have had some issues -- discrete issues in operational performance, but I just want to make sure everyone knows I'm fully engaged in the operational aspects of the business. We have a clear plan, and I have confidence that we're going to fix these issues and kind of have them behind us.

我想說，縱觀 TT，整體市場肯定是一個挑戰，但我們對我們的策略充滿信心。我們專注於降低成本，以在公平貿易市場中獲得份額。我們確實遇到了一些問題——營運績效方面的一些離散問題，但我只是想確保每個人都知道我完全參與了業務的營運方面。我們有一個明確的計劃，我相信我們能夠解決這些問題並最終擺脫它們。

Very helpful. Thanks. And then just as a follow-up on the full-year guidance, could you give a bit more color on what's happening with the APM outage? I mean, you mentioned it as one of the drivers for hitting the low or the high end of the full-year EBITDA guide. So just wondering how much visibility you have there into the total earnings impact and the timeframe and how much of this is under your control?

非常有幫助。謝謝。然後，作為全年指引的後續，您能否詳細介紹一下 APM 中斷的情況？我的意思是，您提到它是達到全年 EBITDA 指南低端或高端的驅動因素之一。所以我只是想知道您對總收益影響和時間範圍有多少了解，以及其中有多少在您的控制之下？

Yeah. I would say the actual issue that occurred was a bit outside of our control, although we really pride ourselves on trying to be resilient for all those things. I would look at it -- first of all, the second quarter was a really good performance by the business. I would anchor back to that.

是的。我想說的是，實際發生的問題有點超出我們的控制範圍，儘管我們真的為自己在應對所有這些事情時所表現出的韌性而感到自豪。我會看它——首先，第二季的業務表現確實很好。我會回到這一點。

The issue that's happened at Washington Works is really a blip. It's something that happened from a power outage that really shouldn't have happened. So think of that as a one-time $20 million impact, but this business is really focused on making progress against the third pillar, Portfolio Management and Commercial Excellence. You saw that in the second quarter, and that's what I would expect as we go into the fourth quarter. This should be isolated to the third quarter.

華盛頓工廠發生的問題其實只是一個小插曲。這是由於停電而發生的本來不應該發生的事情。因此，可以將其視為一次性 2000 萬美元的影響，但這項業務真正專注於在第三支柱即投資組合管理和商業卓越方面取得進展。您在第二季度就看到了這一點，而這正是我預期的我們進入第四季時會出現的情況。這應該與第三季的情況有關。

Great. Thanks a lot.

偉大的。多謝。

John Roberts, Mizuho.

瑞穗的約翰羅伯茲。

Yeah, thank you. Maybe one for Shane. On slide 7, on liquidity, I guess I had never really thought of insurance proceeds as a source of liquidity. Does the $150 million insurance rights that you sold only relate to existing claims or did you sell forward any rights to insurance for potential future claims? Or how do we think about insurance adding to your liquidity?

是的，謝謝。也許給 Shane 一個。在第 7 張投影片上，關於流動性，我想我從來沒有真正想過保險收益是流動性的來源。您出售的價值 1.5 億美元的保險權利是否僅與現有索賠有關，還是您是否出售了任何針對未來潛在索賠的保險權利？或者我們如何看待保險增加您的流動性？

Hey, John. Yeah, so related to the $150 million of insurance that we talked about in the New Jersey settlement, this was related to past claims as it relates to, obviously, the New Jersey settlement for natural resources. The $150 million is an advance from Corteva and DuPont that will be realized throughout the next five years, as we've talked about, to offset the payments underneath the New Jersey settlement.

嘿，約翰。是的，與我們在新澤西州和解案中談到的 1.5 億美元保險有關，這與過去的索賠有關，顯然與新澤西州的自然資源和解案有關。正如我們所討論的，這 1.5 億美元是 Corteva 和杜邦公司預付的款項，將在未來五年內到賬，以抵消新澤西州和解協議下的付款。

So as we think about what these are, these are areas where we feel very good about getting the actual amounts from the insurance carriers down the way. The $150 million is just a piece of the total pie. We noted in the slide that there's about $750 million out there. That's not to say we're going to get $750 million. We feel very comfortable with the first $300 million, hence why I believe we were receiving the $150 million upfront.

因此，當我們思考這些是什麼時，我們很高興能從保險公司獲得這些領域的實際金額。1.5億美元只是整個蛋糕中的一小部分。我們在幻燈片中指出，那裡大約有 7.5 億美元。這並不是說我們會得到 7.5 億美元。我們對首筆 3 億美元感到非常滿意，因此我相信我們會預先收到 1.5 億美元。

Arun Viswanathan, RBC Capital Markets.

加拿大皇家銀行資本市場 (RBC Capital Markets) 的 Arun Viswanathan。

Great. Thanks for taking my question. Hope you guys are well. I guess, I wanted to ask about the slide that you put out on some of the longer-term priorities. So looks like you have guidance or a line of sight to greater than 5% sales growth in the next few years. Does that start as soon as '26?

偉大的。感謝您回答我的問題。希望你們一切都好。我想問一下您放出的一些長期優先事項的幻燈片。因此看起來您對未來幾年的銷售成長有指導或預期，即超過 5% 的成長率。那是不是從 26 年開始？

And then I guess maybe if you were to think about how that shapes up, I imagine maybe high-single-digit growth can continue in TSS, but that could be offset by more moderate growth in the other two segments. And then along with that, if you could potentially provide some updates, if there are any, on the portfolio review as well, that would be great. Thanks.

然後我想，如果你考慮這種情況會如何發展，我想也許 TSS 可以繼續保持高個位數成長，但這可能會被其他兩個部門更溫和的成長所抵消。除此之外，如果您可以提供一些關於投資組合審查的更新資訊（如果有的話），那就太好了。謝謝。

Thanks, Arun. Relative to the 5% sales growth, we definitely see that impacting in 2026. Definitely, TSS, we see significant growth. But if you look at our second pillar around Enabling Growth, we have a lot of work going on around commercial excellence. You saw in the second quarter with APM all the pricing efforts that are going on, and that's going to continue.

謝謝，阿倫。相對於 5% 的銷售成長，我們肯定會看到其在 2026 年產生影響。毫無疑問，TSS 實現了顯著的成長。但如果你看看我們圍繞「促進成長」的第二個支柱，你會發現我們在商業卓越方面做了很多工作。您在第二季度看到了 APM 正在進行的所有定價工作，而且這種情況還將繼續下去。

Relative to our portfolio work, we're still, as we've announced, working on the review of our European assets. And we've given some updates relative to the exit of the SPS portfolio, which there are three sites where that business operates. And that's well underway, so we feel really good about that portfolio work.

相對於我們的投資組合工作，正如我們所宣布的，我們仍在審查我們的歐洲資產。我們還提供了有關 SPS 投資組合退出的一些最新消息，該業務在三個地點運營。目前這項工作進展順利，因此我們對該投資組合的工作感到非常滿意。

Thanks for that. And then if I could, just as a follow-up then, so it does start in the '26 period and it's driven by TSS. Does that also imply that maybe as that mix continues to grow, of Opteon above 70% of TSS, you could see some margin growth as well, and so the EBITDA growth should be well above that 5% level, maybe high-single digits? How should we think about how that translates -- how the sales growth translates to EBITDA, maybe even EPS growth? Thanks.

謝謝。然後，如果可以的話，作為後續行動，它確實始於 26 年時期，並由 TSS 驅動。這是否也意味著，隨著 Opteon 在 TSS 中的佔比持續增長（超過 70%），利潤率也會有所增長，因此 EBITDA 增長率應該會遠高於 5% 的水平，甚至可能達到高個位數？我們該如何思考這一點——銷售額成長如何轉化為 EBITDA，甚至是 EPS 成長？謝謝。

Yeah. Thanks, Arun. We obviously have not given guide as it relates to the bottom line here on a longer-term base. But we always strive for growth on the bottom line above our top line on that side, some of which could come from margin expansion. But as we look at TSS, we're really excited about the business and its perspectives and feel great about being above that 30% EBITDA margin.

是的。謝謝，阿倫。顯然，我們還沒有給出與長期底線相關的指導。但我們始終致力於實現獲利成長高於獲利成長，其中一些成長可能來自利潤率的擴大。但當我們審視 TSS 時，我們對這項業務及其前景感到非常興奮，並且對超過 30% 的 EBITDA 利潤率感到非常高興。

Thanks a lot.

多謝。

Josh Spector, UBS.

瑞銀的喬許·斯佩克特。

Yeah, hi. Good morning. I want to try again on some of the TSS questions to some extent. If I kind of think about where we came into the year, I mean, Shane, you just made this comment again, 30% plus EBITDA margins. Our math looks like you're running closer to 32% now. Top-line assumptions, initially longer-term thinking high-single digits, maybe now you're running mid-teens.

是的，你好。早安.我想在某種程度上再次嘗試一些 TSS 問題。如果我思考我們今年的業績，我的意思是，Shane，你剛才又發表了這個評論，30% 加上 EBITDA 利潤率。我們的計算顯示您現在已接近 32%。最重要的假設是，最初長期思考高個位數，也許現在你已經跑到十幾歲了。

So off what you're doing this year, is this a base from a margin perspective and a top-line perspective that you build off of into 2026, 2027? Or to John's question earlier, is there a little bit of giveback on either of those points, sales or margins, because of some of the outperformance in the aftermarket this year?

那麼，根據您今年所做的事情，這是從利潤率角度和營收角度的基礎，可以作為您到 2026 年、2027 年的規劃依據嗎？或回答約翰之前的問題，由於今年售後市場表現優異，銷售額或利潤率是否會回落？

So yeah, thanks for the question, Josh. I'll address the margins first as we think ahead. We come back to the 30%, but as you just talked about, run rate 32%. We have some delay in some of the raw material costs increase where we priced ahead a bit. So we will see a little bit of impact there, but we still feel very good with where we're going to exit the year as we think about run rates above 30%.

是的，謝謝你的提問，喬希。在我們考慮未來時，我會先解決利潤問題。我們回到 30%，但正如您剛才談到的，運行率為 32%。由於我們提前定價，部分原物料成本的上漲有所延遲。因此，我們會看到一些影響，但考慮到運行率將超過 30%，我們仍然對今年的業績感到非常滿意。

Looking ahead and longer term, I think we're excited about the business and think about the prospects of just overall further adoption in the aftermarket, driving performance. That said, we do believe there will be more competitive dynamics going forward. So we're not committing to any growth numbers at this time, but we'll just continue to execute and really believe that TSS is going to be a strong growth enabler for our company going forward underneath the next three years under our strategy.

展望未來和長遠，我認為我們對這項業務感到興奮，並考慮在售後市場中進一步採用、推動業績的前景。話雖如此，我們確實相信未來競爭將會更加激烈。因此，我們目前不承諾任何成長數字，但我們將繼續執行，並真正相信在我們的策略下，TSS 將在未來三年成為我們公司強勁的成長推動力。

Okay. Thanks for that. And if I could just follow up on the PFAS comments, specifically around insurance. Can you just give us a little bit more framework of, if, when that can apply? I guess, it appears this was maybe a bit more specific with the sites in New Jersey. I don't know if it was product related. Basically, can this apply to a settlement in North Carolina or anything else you have down the pike, which then maybe extends the MOU funds further out? Or how should we think about that?

好的。謝謝。我是否可以跟進 PFAS 的評論，特別是有關保險的評論。您能否提供我們更多框架，說明何時可以應用？我猜，這似乎可能與新澤西州的站點更相關一些。我不知道這是否與產品有關。基本上，這是否適用於北卡羅來納州的和解或您將來的任何其他事情，然後可能進一步延長 MOU 資金？或者我們該如何思考這個問題？

So a couple of things there, Josh. So as I look at these insurance, and I mentioned a total of $750 million, but that number is the gross number, we'll have to think through what the carriers will ultimately provide and what we'll settle for on that side. Under the MOU, this does extend the amount of items underneath the MOU and provide more cover there.

喬希，這裡有幾件事。因此，當我查看這些保險時，我提到總額為 7.5 億美元，但這個數字是總額，我們必須仔細考慮承運人最終將提供什麼以及我們將在那方面接受什麼。根據諒解備忘錄，這確實擴大了諒解備忘錄項下的項目數量，並提供了更多的保障。

As we think about the applicability and where this is, we're really much focused on the New Jersey settlement at this time and think that this is a really good advance to help us cover the next five years from a cash flow perspective. The specific areas is around product liability and other areas which were applicable to the national resources underneath the New Jersey. And so we'll continue to look at other avenues to try and apply this elsewhere, but just really focused on New Jersey at this time.

當我們考慮其適用性和適用範圍時，我們目前非常關注新澤西州的和解，並認為這是一筆非常好的預付款，可以幫助我們從現金流的角度覆蓋未來五年。具體領域涉及產品責任以及適用於新澤西州國家資源的其他領域。因此，我們將繼續尋找其他途徑，嘗試將其應用於其他地方，但目前只專注於新澤西州。

Okay. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

Duffy Fischer, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的達菲費雪。

Yeah, good morning. I was hoping you could talk to us about what your strategy is in TiO2 currently. Historically, you've been stronger on price and have given up volume to peers in weak periods. This quarter, if you look, your pricing year over year was 4% weaker than your biggest competitor, Western competitor. Your volumes were 10% better. So it's pretty clear you are much more aggressive in the market than they were this quarter. Is that a structural change in your strategy to be more volume-driven? And if so, do you think there will be a competitive response from them?

是的，早安。我希望您能跟我們談談您目前在 TiO2 方面的策略。從歷史上看，你們的價格一直比較強勁，並且在疲軟時期將銷量拱手讓給了同行。本季，如果你看一下，你會發現你的定價比去年比你最大的競爭對手，西方競爭對手低了 4%。您的音量提高了 10%。因此很明顯，你們本季在市場上的表現比他們更積極。這是你們策略中的結構性變化，更加重視數量驅動嗎？如果是這樣，您認為他們會做出有競爭力的回應嗎？

Thanks for the question, Duffy. I mean, we are really confident and clear in our strategy. When we started this, we really looked at we need to be lowest-cost manufacturer. We took out our high-cost capacity, and we talked about the fact that we are going to continue to do that in our assets and we're going to gain share in fair trade markets. We look -- whenever we have an opportunity, we have a very diligent process. We evaluate all opportunities. I'm confident in our strategy driving lower cost and achieving share gain in those fair trade markets.

謝謝你的提問，達菲。我的意思是，我們對我們的策略非常有信心並且很明確。當我們開始這項工作時，我們確實認為我們需要成為成本最低的製造商。我們取消了高成本產能，並表示我們將繼續在我們的資產中這樣做，並將在公平貿易市場中獲得份額。我們會一有機會就採取非常勤勉的行動。我們評估所有機會。我對我們的策略充滿信心，相信它能夠降低成本並在公平貿易市場中贏得更大的份額。

I really can't comment on what the response of the competitors will be. But I think it's some really positive signs when you think about what's going on with the capacity that's been taken out of the market. We believe there's at least 400 kilotons that have been taken out. And just even looking at the export data from China, significant reductions year over year, quarter over quarter, even into Brazil and India, which yet would still have not -- do not have the firm duties or tariffs in place. So again, we're focused on lowest cost and gaining share in fair trade deals.

我真的無法評論競爭對手的反應是什麼。但我認為，當你考慮到市場上失去的產能時，這確實是一些正面的訊號。我們相信至少有 40 萬噸已被運走。即使只看中國的出口數據，年比、季比都有大幅下降，甚至對巴西和印度的出口也下降了，而這兩個國家還沒有實施固定關稅。因此，我們再次強調，我們專注於最低成本和在公平貿易中獲得份額。

Great. Thanks. And then maybe just to jump to TSS, last year, your sequential sales Q2 to Q3 were down about 10% but the decremental margin was roughly equal to the segment average. This year, your sales are down less, but your decremental margin looks like it's double what the segment average is. So is that a mix shift issue? Is that something around the 454B issues? Why is the decremental so much greater this year than last year?

偉大的。謝謝。然後也許只是跳到 TSS，去年，您的第二季度至第三季度的連續銷售額下降了約 10％，但降幅大致等於細分市場的平均水平。今年，您的銷售額下降幅度較小，但您的遞減利潤率似乎是該細分市場平均值的兩倍。那麼這是一個混合轉變問題嗎？這是與 454B 問題有關的事情嗎？為什麼今年的減幅比去年大這麼多？

Yeah. Thanks, Duffy. It's really a mix shift. As we look at the Freon roll-off last year on the pricing according that was so dramatic from the decline, went right to the bottom line versus a shift in kind of the volumes this year.

是的。謝謝，達菲。這確實是一個混合轉變。當我們看到去年氟利昂價格的下降時，我們發現價格下降幅度非常大，直接影響到了利潤，而今年的銷售量則有所變動。

Okay. Thank you, guys.

好的。謝謝你們。

Hassan Ahmed, Alembic Global.

哈桑·艾哈邁德 (Hassan Ahmed)，Alembic Global。

Morning, Denise and Shane. I just wanted to revisit the earlier question, get a little more granular around TT and the 9% sequential uptick you guys saw in volumes versus one of your largest competitors sequentially reporting a 2% decline. I mean, my understanding is that Europe sort of became the battleground with the whole sort of anti-dumping stuff going on over there. And it just seems that you guys were very aggressive on pricing.

早安，丹尼斯和肖恩。我只是想重新回顧一下之前的問題，更詳細地了解一下 TT，以及你們的銷量連續 9% 的增長，而你們最大的競爭對手之一的銷量連續 2% 的下降。我的意思是，我的理解是，歐洲已經成為了反傾銷的戰場。看起來你們在定價方面非常正面。

So again, sort of revisiting some of the stuff that you said earlier. I mean, my fear is that -- could this potentially signal a walking away from the whole sort of value-over-volume strategy that the industry so painstakingly sort of evolved into over the last five, six years?

所以，再次回顧一下您之前所說的一些內容。我的意思是，我擔心的是——這是否可能預示著該行業將放棄過去五、六年來精心打造的價值高於數量的戰略？

Hassan, thanks for the question. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that this is a dropping of price. I would focus on our strategy, our overall strategy of commercial excellence and really winning in the marketplace based on the value proposition that we offer.

哈桑，謝謝你的提問。我不會輕易地得出價格下降的結論。我會專注於我們的策略、我們的商業卓越整體策略以及基於我們提供的價值主張在市場上真正獲勝。

Understood. And if I could just sort of follow up with -- again, sticking to the TiO2 side of things. I mean, can you just give me your views both on the supply side and the demand side of things as you see them sort of progressing '26 and beyond? And more particularly, you guys mentioned some capacity rationalization, particularly in China. So if you could sort of expand on that a bit more on the supply side and on the demand side, obviously it appears that over the last couple of years, we are well below normal levels on the demand side. So how do you see the cycle evolving '26 and beyond, both from the supply and the demand side of things?

明白了。如果我可以繼續跟進的話——再次堅持 TiO2 方面的事情。我的意思是，您能否從供應方面和需求方面談談您對 26 年及以後形勢發展的看法？更具體地說，你們提到了一些產能合理化，特別是在中國。因此，如果您可以從供應方面和需求方面進一步闡述這一點，顯然，過去幾年來，我們的需求方面遠低於正常水平。那麼，從供給和需求兩方面，您如何看待 26 年及以後的周期演變？

Yeah. I'll just hit demand first. I mean, from a demand standpoint, we don't see anything for this year, any big trigger this year. Certainly, we look at certain indicators like everyone else does and expect to see some improvement next year, but really nothing in the short term.

是的。我只是先滿足需求。我的意思是，從需求的角度來看，我們今年不會看到任何重大的觸發因素。當然，我們像其他人一樣關注某些指標，並期望明年看到一些改善，但短期內實際上不會有任何改善。

I think the story really is on the supply side. There's been significant capacity that's been taken out of the market, starting with our -- initially with us, but we see at least 400 kilotons from China coming out, which is really -- gives a more balanced supply-demand picture. But also on top of that, the tariffs and duties and the real differentiation between the fair trade markets and the non-fair trade markets definitely, I would say, over the next couple of years is a very proving trend.

我認為問題其實出在供應方面。大量產能已經退出市場，首先是我們自己，但我們看到中國至少有 40 萬噸產能退出，這確實呈現出更平衡的供需局面。但除此之外，我想說，關稅和公平貿易市場與非公平貿易市場之間的真正區別在未來幾年內絕對是一個非常明顯的趨勢。

Very helpful, Denise. Thank you so much.

非常有幫助，丹尼斯。太感謝了。

Laurence Alexander, Jefferies.

勞倫斯‧亞歷山大，傑富瑞集團。

Hey, guys. It's Dan Rizzo on from Laurence. Thank you for taking my question. So in terms of PFAS, what's the kind of the next -- is North Carolina, I don't know, coming up soon? Or is it -- I mean, are you in negotiations? Or what can we -- what's the timeline and what can we expect maybe in terms of another announcement, if there's anything you can tell us?

嘿，大家好。我是勞倫斯的丹·里佐。感謝您回答我的問題。那麼就 PFAS 而言，下一步會是什麼樣的——北卡羅來納州，我不知道，很快就會出現嗎？或者是——我的意思是，您正在進行談判嗎？或者我們可以做什麼——時間表是什麼，我們可以期待什麼，也許在另一個公告方面，如果您可以告訴我們什麼？

Sure. I really appreciate this question. I first want to start with New Jersey is a major milestone for us. And we are just really pleased for just a whole host of reasons to look at a comprehensive settlement. This was four former and current operations.

當然。我真的很感謝這個問題。首先我想說的是，新澤西對我們來說是一個重要的里程碑。我們非常高興能夠出於多種原因尋求一項全面的解決方案。這是四次以前和現在的行動。

So to talk about North Carolina and West Virginia, so already with New Jersey, we have four behind us and two more in the future. It's a 25-year payment at NPV value. So it puts more -- I'll say more under our MOU in addition to the advancement of insurance of $150 million with no cash interest pay payments along with the escrow, giving us more, also more room under the MOU and no payment at least through 2030. So just incredible.

說到北卡羅來納州和西維吉尼亞州，加上新澤西州，我們已經有四個了，未來還會有兩個。這是以 NPV 值計算的 25 年付款。因此，除了預付 1.5 億美元的保險費（無需支付現金利息和託管費）外，我們的諒解備忘錄還規定了更多——也就是說，在諒解備忘錄下，我們還有更多的空間，至少到 2030 年都不需要付款。真是難以置信。

And then you go to, well, what will -- the $16.5 million that's been pointed out -- $15.5 million that was pointed out in the settlement that's the PFAS allocation for New Jersey. It really aligned well with the allocation of liability that came from the water district settlement in the 3% to 7% range. So you really can't underestimate the importance of this.

然後你會問，好吧，協議中指出的 1650 萬美元——1550 萬美元是分配給新澤西州的 PFAS 資金。它確實與水務區結算中 3% 至 7% 範圍內的責任分配一致。所以你真的不能低估這一點的重要性。

So when you think about what's next, I talked about the four sites behind us. There's two, North Carolina and West Virginia, when you think of the big milestones for the states. And then beyond that would be personal injury. And we're following a process. We're in settlement discussions.

因此，當您考慮下一步時，我談到了我們身後的四個站點。如果要說各州的重大里程碑，那麼有兩個：北卡羅來納州和西維吉尼亞州。除此之外，還會造成人身傷害。我們正在遵循一個流程。我們正在進行和解談判。

But all I'm going to say here is that overall, we have the same interest in resolving all of our outstanding litigation and liabilities in the same spirit and manner that we did for New Jersey. This is clear examples of executing on our Strengthening the Long Term pillar and bringing confidence and clarity to our stakeholders. And it really reflects our resolve to derisk our portfolio.

但我在這裡要說的是，總的來說，我們同樣希望以與新澤西州相同的精神和方式解決所有未決訴訟和債務。這是我們執行加強長期支柱並為我們的利害關係人帶來信心和清晰度的明顯例子。這確實反映了我們降低投資組合風險的決心。

And the 3% to 7% percent is -- I mean, is that the blueprint we should think? Or just -- I mean, obviously anything can happen, but is that the blueprint we should think of going forward when we're thinking about how North Carolina and West Virginia might shape out?

3% 到 7% 的比例是——我的意思是，這是我們應該思考的藍圖嗎？或者只是——我的意思是，顯然任何事情都可能發生，但當我們思考北卡羅來納州和西弗吉尼亞州的未來發展時，這是我們應該考慮的未來藍圖嗎？

As you said, we can't project it out, but certainly the blueprint we think about. And really, it's demonstrating throughout the settlement that it's holding.

正如你所說，我們無法將其投射出來，但我們思考的藍圖肯定存在。事實上，整個和解過程都顯示了這一點。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Jeffrey Zekauskas, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的 Jeffrey Zekauskas。

Thanks very much. In some of the press and legal accounts of the New Jersey settlement, it's talked about as a $2.5 billion settlement in that I think a $1.2 billion remediation fund has to be set up and a $475 million reserve fund has to be set up. Are there claims on you for those? Or how do those amounts relate to the settlement amounts that have been agreed to?

非常感謝。在一些有關新澤西州和解的新聞和法律報告中，它被說成是一項 25 億美元的和解協議，我認為其中必須設立 12 億美元的補救基金和 4.75 億美元的儲備基金。您對這些有要求嗎？或這些金額與已同意的和解金額有何關係？

Yeah. Thanks, Jeffrey. So as you mentioned, the reconciliation to what we provided versus what the state provided, they're the same numbers. They're just differently presented, the two big items that you mentioned. So there was a remediation fund of $1.2 billion in the state's numbers. What that is is really kind of a reference, a surety or a backstop for future remediation efforts over many years in this side.

是的。謝謝，傑弗裡。正如您所提到的，我們提供的與國家提供的之間的對比，它們是相同的數字。您提到的兩大項目只是呈現方式不同。因此，該州的補救基金總額為 12 億美元。這實際上是一種參考、一種保證或一種後盾，為未來多年的補救工作提供保障。

Just to note, as we think about that, that's really already in our ongoing cash flow on what we're actually doing on a day-to-day basis at these plants to make sure they're operating appropriately and remediating those environmental items. The other area outside of the $1.2 billion was about $0.5 billion reserve fund. That is a backstop for the surety of which Corteva and DuPont have to post that in that side.

需要注意的是，當我們考慮這一點時，這實際上已經存在於我們的持續現金流中，我們在這些工廠的日常實際工作中確保它們正常運作並修復這些環境問題。除這 12 億美元外，其他儲備基金約為 5 億美元。這是科迪華和杜邦必須提供的擔保的後盾。

Okay. So are there cash flow claims that are in addition to the $500 million in net present value that you're responsible for? Or how exactly do those remediation and reserve funds affect your future cash flow if they do affect them?

好的。那麼，除了您負責的 5 億美元淨現值之外，還有其他現金流索賠嗎？或者，如果這些補救和儲備資金確實會影響您的未來現金流，它們究竟會如何影響？

So Jeffrey, in our ongoing results, so we have monitoring, we have maintenance, we have other areas to remediate these plans. And so they're in our ongoing -- in our past cash flow and will be on our ongoing cash flow for some time. That is depending upon the agreement of how to remediate these sites, which we will have conversations on in the future.

所以傑弗裡，在我們的持續成果中，我們有監控，我們有維護，我們有其他領域來補救這些計劃。因此，它們存在於我們的持續現金流中——存在於我們過去的現金流中，並將在一段時間內存在於我們的持續現金流中。這取決於如何修復這些站點的協議，我們將來會就此進行討論。

And just to note, the $1.2 billion is the high end of that surety. So we believe it will be a lower amount, which will be discussed within this one-year description underneath the agreement.

值得注意的是，12 億美元是該擔保的最高金額。因此，我們認為這將是一個較低的金額，這將在協議下的一年期描述中討論。

And maybe to add a little bit to the top end and how that top end was arrived, we have done assessments. So based on science and -- they're at the low end of the range. It's not like we've gone into this blind. So we've done our assessment work.

也許是為了增加一點頂端以及如何達到頂端，我們已經做了評估。因此，根據科學——它們處於範圍的低端。我們並不是盲目地進入這一領域。所以我們已經完成了評估工作。

In order to get the settlement done, the timing didn't really allow for a lot of diligence and reconciliation between what New Jersey thought and what our science would tell us. So we established this range, and as you'll see in the JCO, just a really practical process to align. And we're really happy with that outcome.

為了達成和解，時間上並沒有考慮到新澤西州的想法和我們的科學告訴我們的東西之間的大量盡職調查和協調。因此我們建立了這個範圍，正如您在 JCO 中看到的，這只是一個非常實用的調整過程。我們對這個結果非常滿意。

Okay. And then lastly, your CapEx is roughly $250 million this year, roughly. What's a normalized level for you when you think about the next few years? Where do you think your capital expenditures normally will be?

好的。最後，今年您的資本支出約為 2.5 億美元。當您考慮未來幾年時，您的正常水平是多少？您認為您的資本支出通常會花在哪些方面？

Yeah. Thanks, Jeffrey. Yes, we've had we expect around $250 million as we've guided. I would note that's lower than any recent periods in Chemours' history. The outlook depends upon some strategic growth initiatives, which we've had very focused spend in this given year and we'll continue to very much focus on that side.

是的。謝謝，傑弗裡。是的，我們預計收入約為 2.5 億美元。我想指出的是，這比科慕歷史上任何近期時期都要低。前景取決於一些策略性成長計劃，今年我們在這方面的支出非常集中，我們將繼續非常重視這方面。

I do think, as we look ahead, there may be a little bit more CapEx, but it's not going to be anything past the range of where we're at from now and past history. It's not going to get out of bounds. The efforts here is really to be strategic on what is really needed to operate our sites, both safety and compliant, as well as very much focused on strategic growth initiatives that are very much focused.

我確實認為，展望未來，資本支出可能會稍微多一些，但不會超出我們現在和過去的歷史範圍。它不會超出界限。這裡的努力實際上是針對經營我們的網站真正需要什麼進行戰略規劃，既要安全又要合規，同時也要非常注重戰略增長計劃。

So does that mean $350 million?

那麼這是否意味著3.5億美元？

Yeah. Jeff, I'm not going to give a guide -- long range from a CapEx perspective. I do think if you look in the past, so this is the lowest area. I do think we'll have potentially a little bit more as we look ahead. But I'm not going to give a range to the high and low end at this point.

是的。傑夫，我不會從資本支出的角度給予長期指導。我確實認為，如果你回顧過去，那麼這是最低的區域。我確實認為，展望未來，我們可能會獲得更多。但我現在不會給出高端和低端的範圍。

Okay, great. Thank you.

好的，太好了。謝謝。

Vincent Andrews, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的文森安德魯斯。

Good morning. This is Justin Pellegrino on for Vincent. I wanted to shift back over to TT for a second and ask if you could give us kind of the competitive dynamics in the different regions around the world. And then within the countries that have put in place the fair trade or the anti-dumping duties, have you seen some duties be more effective than others and kind of what are driving those differences? Thank you.

早安.這是賈斯汀·佩萊格里諾 (Justin Pellegrino) 為文森特 (Vincent) 表演的。我想暫時回到 TT 的話題，問您是否可以向我們介紹世界各地不同地區的競爭動態。那麼，在實施公平貿易或反傾銷稅的國家中，您是否發現某些關稅比其他關稅更有效，以及造成這些差異的原因是什麼？謝謝。

Thanks for the question, Justin. So relative to the competitive dynamic, I would say in an overall perspective, that in the regions where we call the fair trade markets, it's more of the multinational competitors, excluding the Chinese manufacturers. I would say it's pretty competitive in those non-fair trade markets. There's a lot of pressure from Chinese producers in those areas.

謝謝你的提問，賈斯汀。因此，就競爭態勢而言，從整體來看，在我們稱之為公平貿易市場的地區，更多的是跨國競爭對手，不包括中國製造商。我想說，在那些非公平貿易市場中，它的競爭力相當強。這些地區面臨來自中國生產商的巨大壓力。

Can you repeat the second part of your question? I'm sorry.

你能重複問題的第二部分嗎？對不起。

Yeah. Just within the countries or regions that have put in anti-dumping duties, is there any differences between the regions or within the duties that they've put in place? And if there are any differences, what's driving those differences?

是的。僅在徵收反傾銷稅的國家或地區中，各地區之間或徵收的反傾銷稅之間是否存在差異？如果存在差異，那麼造成這些差異的原因是什麼？

Yeah, thank you. I would say that where the duties have been put in, they've been very effective. So in the US and Europe, there's a time for transition. So once they come in, and you say, like, when did Europe finally probably took a good nine months for inventories to be worked down, but you can see the signs of how these are going to be effective in other regions where that are contemplating the -- or have preliminary rulings around tariffs or anti-dumping duties.

是的，謝謝。我想說的是，這些職責一旦實施，就會非常有效。因此，美國和歐洲正處於轉型時期。因此，一旦這些措施實施，你會說，歐洲什麼時候才能最終減少庫存，可能要花九個月的時間，但你可以看到這些措施將如何在其他正在考慮或對關稅或反傾銷稅作出初步裁決的地區發揮作用的跡象。

As I mentioned earlier, you can just look at the exports into India, you can see the drop there. You can look at the exports into Brazil, you see the drops there. So I would say when the rules become final, there's a lot of confidence in the effectiveness of those.

正如我之前提到的，只要看看對印度的出口，就可以看到那裡的下降。你可以看看對巴西的出口，你會發現那裡的出口有所下降。因此我想說，當規則最終確定時，人們對其有效性充滿信心。

Wonderful. Thank you.

精彩的。謝謝。

We have reached the end of our question-and-answer session. Thank you for joining The Chemours second-quarter 2025 results conference call. You may now disconnect.

我們的問答環節已經結束。感謝您參加科慕 2025 年第二季業績電話會議。您現在可以斷開連線。