Chemours Co (CC) 2023 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to the Chemours Company First Quarter 2023 Earnings Call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded. I would now like to turn the call over to Jonathan Lock, SVP and Chief Development Officer. Thank you. Please go ahead.

早上好，歡迎來到科慕公司 2023 年第一季度財報電話會議。 （操作員說明）作為提醒，正在錄製此電話會議。我現在想把電話轉給高級副總裁兼首席開發官 Jonathan Lock。謝謝。請繼續。

Thanks, Julianne, and good morning, everybody. Welcome to the Chemours Company's First Quarter 2023 Earnings Q&A Conference Call. I'm joined today by Mark Newman, President and Chief Executive Officer; and Sameer Ralhan, Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer.

謝謝，朱莉安，大家早上好。歡迎來到科慕公司 2023 年第一季度收益問答電話會議。今天，總裁兼首席執行官馬克·紐曼 (Mark Newman) 加入了我的行列；高級副總裁兼首席財務官 Sameer Ralhan。

Before we start, I'd like to remind you that comments made on this call as well as in the supplemental information provided in our presentation and on our website contain forward-looking statements that involve risks and uncertainties as described in our SEC filings. These forward-looking statements are not guarantees of future performance and are based on certain assumptions and expectations of future events that may not be realized. Actual results may differ, and Chemours undertakes no duty to update any forward-looking statements as a result of future developments or new information.

在我們開始之前，我想提醒您，對本次電話會議以及我們的演示文稿和我們網站上提供的補充信息的評論包含前瞻性陳述，這些陳述涉及我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中所述的風險和不確定性。這些前瞻性陳述不是對未來業績的保證，而是基於某些可能無法實現的未來事件的假設和預期。實際結果可能有所不同，科慕不承擔因未來發展或新信息而更新任何前瞻性陳述的義務。

During the course of this call, management will refer to certain non-GAAP financial measures that we believe are useful to investors evaluating the company's performance. A reconciliation of non-GAAP terms and adjustments are included in our release and at the end of our presentation. As a reminder, our prepared remarks, a full transcript plus our earnings deck have been posted to our website alongside our earnings release. This morning's call will focus purely on Q&A.

在此電話會議期間，管理層將參考某些我們認為對投資者評估公司業績有用的非 GAAP 財務指標。非 GAAP 條款和調整的對賬包含在我們的發布和演示文稿的末尾。提醒一下，我們準備好的評論、完整的成績單以及我們的收益平台已與我們的收益發布一起發佈到我們的網站。今天上午的電話會議將完全集中在問答環節。

With that, I'll turn the call over to our CEO, Mark Newman. Mark?

有了這個，我會把電話轉給我們的首席執行官馬克紐曼。標記？

Thank you, Jonathan, and thank you all for joining us this morning. Our strong performance in the first quarter is a testament to our secular growth thesis at work and the strength of our overall portfolio. TSS and APM continue to deliver products the world needs and which underpin many strategic as well as emerging technologies. Despite the challenges faced by our TT segment, we remain confident in a gradual recovery throughout the year with improvements in margins, moderating raw material costs and cost optimization measures implemented across the portfolio.

謝謝你，喬納森，感謝大家今天早上加入我們。我們在第一季度的強勁表現證明了我們的長期增長論點和我們整體投資組合的實力。 TSS 和 APM 繼續提供世界需要的產品，這些產品支持許多戰略和新興技術。儘管我們的 TT 部門面臨挑戰，但我們仍然有信心通過提高利潤率、降低原材料成本和在整個產品組合中實施成本優化措施，在全年逐步復甦。

With a strong first quarter, we are reaffirming our full year guidance but we acknowledge the uncertainty of the macro environment and its potential impact on the second half of the year. We're closely monitoring the situation, and we are prepared to adapt as necessary.

憑藉強勁的第一季度，我們重申了我們的全年指引，但我們承認宏觀環境的不確定性及其對下半年的潛在影響。我們正在密切監視情況，並準備在必要時進行調整。

With that, Julianne, let's move to questions.

有了這個，Julianne，讓我們開始提問。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from Duffy Fischer from Goldman Sachs.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自高盛的 Duffy Fischer。

First question just on TSS. With the step-down or the pending step down, can you go through how much of the price benefit you've seen over the last year has come from the HFO side kind of the mix shift? And how much has come from HFC just kind of getting squeezed on volume? And what's your expectation this year in the U.S. kind of what the market share being HFC and HFO will be for the market?

關於 TSS 的第一個問題。隨著降級或即將降級，您能否了解一下您在去年看到的價格收益中有多少來自 HFO 方面的混合轉變？有多少來自 HFC 只是在數量上受到擠壓？您對今年美國 HFC 和 HFO 的市場份額有何期望？

Yes. So Duffy, as you recall, great question, the step down of 10% last year continues at that level through the end of this year where there's a 30% step down. So there's -- our view would be there will be folks buying ahead in the second half of the year potentially of that step down. And obviously, in a market with constrained supply, that will continue to support prices.

是的。所以達菲，正如你記得的那樣，好問題，去年 10% 的降幅一直持續到今年年底，降幅為 30%。因此，我們的觀點是，人們可能會在今年下半年提前購買該產品。顯然，在供應受限的市場中，這將繼續支撐價格。

We did not expect significant year-over-year price increases like we saw last year, but we do expect the market to remain dynamic.

我們預計價格不會像去年那樣大幅上漲，但我們確實預計市場將保持活力。

And then on your question on HFO volumes, clearly, volume growth in our portfolio, which you saw in the first quarter is tied to both HFO adoption as well as a strong auto OEM market, which really benefited us. So I'm going to ask Sameer to make a couple more comments, but I think those are the big headlines.

然後關於你關於 HFO 數量的問題，很明顯，你在第一季度看到的我們產品組合的數量增長與 HFO 的採用以及強大的汽車 OEM 市場有關，這確實使我們受益。所以我要請 Sameer 發表更多評論，但我認為這些是頭條新聞。

Thanks, Mark. And Duffy, the only other comment I would add is, as you kind of think about the pricing, you should really think about the realization. As the quota steps down, we think about pricing, not just from just one product point of view, think about the optimization across the portfolio just to make sure we can meet all the needs of the customers and really maximize on the pricing side as well. So think about an optimization problem across the product portfolio rather just focusing on product by product.

謝謝，馬克。達菲，我要補充的唯一其他評論是，當你考慮定價時，你真的應該考慮實現。隨著配額的減少，我們考慮定價，而不僅僅是從一種產品的角度，考慮整個產品組合的優化，以確保我們能夠滿足客戶的所有需求，並在定價方面真正實現最大化.因此，考慮整個產品組合的優化問題，而不是只關註一個產品一個產品。

Fair enough. And then on TiO2, again, another quarter where your sell-in to customers is significantly lower than what their sell-out has been again. Again, you go back a year ago, there didn't seem to be any TiO2 inventory in the system anywhere. So can you just kind of triangulate the math of how did we build as much inventory, maybe over last summer as it seems like we've destocked from the fall through today? And what gives you confidence that -- or when do you think we'll get back to where your sell-in and their sell-out is somewhat even on the TiO2 side?

很公平。然後在 TiO2 上，又是另一個季度，您對客戶的銷售量再次明顯低於他們的銷售量。同樣，回到一年前，系統中似乎沒有任何 TiO2 庫存。那麼，您能否對我們如何建立盡可能多的庫存進行三角測量，也許是在去年夏天，因為看起來我們從秋天到今天已經去庫存了？是什麼讓您有信心 - 或者您認為我們什麼時候會回到您的銷售量和他們的銷售量在 TiO2 方面的情況？

Yes. So the year started off relatively slowly. We predicted what we expect to be a gradual recovery. Sequentially, our volumes were up 1% but down year-over-year. As we look at the market, what we're seeing is signs of the destocking is over in Europe and to some extent, China. And then we're seeing a little bit more cautious behavior here in North America with some of the recent news flow.

是的。所以這一年開始相對緩慢。我們預測了我們期望的逐步復甦。因此，我們的銷量增長了 1%，但同比下降。當我們審視市場時，我們看到的是歐洲以及在某種程度上中國的去庫存已經結束的跡象。然後我們在北美看到一些最近的新聞流更加謹慎的行為。

As we look to the whole year, we are expecting a gradual recovery. Our expectation sequentially going into Q2 would be for a double-digit sequential growth. But we're not sort of basing our year on sort of a rapid volume recovery, given some of the sentiment here in North America. I'll ask Sameer to comment further, but I'd say those are the main stories for now.

展望全年，我們預計會逐步復甦。我們預計進入第二季度將實現兩位數的連續增長。但考慮到北美的一些情緒，我們並沒有將我們的一年建立在銷量快速復甦的基礎上。我會請 Sameer 進一步發表評論，但我想說這些是目前的主要故事。

Yes. I think Mark you covered all the key points. So Duffy, I think as you're going to think about from the demand perspective, really, if you look into the guide, as we kind of think about the guide affirmation, TiO2 is going to be a little weaker than what we thought at the beginning of the year. But from a sequential perspective, we should expect a double-digit volume improvement as we get into the second quarter.

是的。我認為馬克你涵蓋了所有的關鍵點。所以達菲，我認為你會從需求的角度考慮，真的，如果你看一下指南，就像我們考慮指南的肯定一樣，TiO2 會比我們想像的要弱一些年初。但從連續的角度來看，我們應該預計進入第二季度時銷量會出現兩位數的增長。

Our next question comes from Hassan Ahmed from Alembic Global Advisors.

我們的下一個問題來自 Alembic Global Advisors 的 Hassan Ahmed。

Just wanted to sort of touch on TiO2 as well. I mean, look, as I take a look at sequential volumes, they were just up 1%. And as I take a look at the landscape, one of your large competitors had sort of significantly higher volume gain sequentially. So I'm just trying to understand in terms of market share, globally, are you guys seeing any losses? How should we think about that?

也只是想稍微談談 TiO2。我的意思是，看，當我看一下連續的成交量時，它們只上漲了 1%。當我看一下景觀時，您的一個大型競爭對手的數量連續增加了很多。所以我只是想了解全球的市場份額，你們有沒有看到任何損失？我們應該如何考慮？

Yes. So listen, when we look at -- I think you're probably referring to Tronox. So when I look at the year-over-year comparison, we're down 30% or 35% from last year. They're down 30%. So on a relative basis, there is some delta. I would admit that. And I would attribute that mainly to where people are strong regionally.

是的。所以聽著，當我們看——我想你可能指的是 Tronox。因此，當我查看同比比較時，我們比去年下降了 30% 或 35%。他們下降了 30%。因此，相對而言，存在一些差異。我承認這一點。我認為這主要歸因於人們在區域中的強勢。

I would also tell you that we are very focused on adjusting our circuit against market demand and a focus on -- being more focused on running the business for cash over the full year. And so I think we are playing our cards well. And again, as I said in my earlier comment, we'd be looking for double-digit volume growth starting in the next quarter. But we're very, very thoughtful about how we approach the market.

我還要告訴你，我們非常專注於根據市場需求調整我們的電路，並專注於 - 更專注於在全年經營現金業務。所以我認為我們打得很好。再一次，正如我在之前的評論中所說，我們希望從下個季度開始實現兩位數的銷量增長。但我們對如何進入市場非常非常深思熟慮。

And then the last point I would make is a lot of our business is on long-term contracts, which, in many cases, are tied to share of requirements. So I'm quite confident that this doesn't represent a significant share shift by any means. It's really more of a regional mix between us and some of our other MNC competitors.

然後我要說的最後一點是，我們的很多業務都是基於長期合同，在許多情況下，這些合同與需求份額相關。所以我非常有信心，這無論如何都不代表重大的份額轉移。這實際上更像是我們和我們其他一些跨國公司競爭對手之間的區域組合。

Very helpful, Mark. And just a quick question on the guidance -- the full year guidance. You guys obviously handily beat the Q1 estimates, and you're already sort of run-rating annualized at $1.2 billion EBITDA, right? And I'd like to think through the course of this year, demand improves, China reopening, all of those wonderful things and obviously, I'd like to think that TiO2 results improve as well. So I mean, don't you think the $1.2 billion to $1.3 billion reiteration seems a bit conservative?

很有幫助，馬克。只是一個關於指導的快速問題——全年指導。你們顯然輕而易舉地超過了第一季度的預估，而且你們的年化 EBITDA 已經達到了 12 億美元，對吧？我想在今年的整個過程中，需求改善，中國重新開放，所有這些美好的事情，顯然，我想二氧化鈦的結果也會有所改善。所以我的意思是，你不認為重申 12 億美元到 13 億美元似乎有點保守嗎？

So Hassan, I think we are kind of a team that under-promises and over-delivers. And I think as we sat here with a good 1Q in hand, our view was, given all of the global macro uncertainties and particularly some of the banking uncertainties here in the U.S., it made sense at this point in the year to be careful. And so I think it's with that view that we have reaffirmed our full year guide.

所以哈桑，我認為我們是一個承諾不足但交付過多的團隊。而且我認為，當我們坐在這裡，手頭有一個良好的第一季度時，我們的觀點是，鑑於所有全球宏觀不確定性，尤其是美國這裡的一些銀行業不確定性，在今年的這個時候保持謹慎是有道理的。因此，我認為正是基於這種觀點，我們重申了我們的全年指南。

Clearly, there are some aspects in the second half, which could go either way. And so I think our perspective at this point is to reaffirm our full year guide. But I'll ask Sameer to make a few comments as well.

顯然，下半場的某些方面可能會發生變化。因此，我認為我們目前的觀點是重申我們的全年指南。但我也會請 Sameer 發表一些意見。

Thanks, Hassan. Fair point from your side. But as we kind of think about the guide, what we gave at the beginning of the year and where we are, there's a lot of moving pieces, as Mark said, from a macroeconomic perspective that we kind of reflected into this. But overall, if you look at from the business to business perspective, as I said earlier, TiO2 is probably a little weaker than what we thought at the beginning of the year. And TSS, of course, given the performance we saw in Q1, it's going to be at a better place than what we had when we gave the guide at the beginning of the year, and APM generally in line from where we were at the beginning of this year.

謝謝，哈桑。從你的角度來看是公平的。但是當我們考慮指南時，我們在年初給出的內容以及我們所處的位置，正如馬克所說，從宏觀經濟的角度來看，我們在某種程度上反映了這一點。但總的來說，如果從企業到企業的角度來看，正如我之前所說，TiO2 可能比我們年初認為的要弱一些。當然，TSS，考慮到我們在第一季度看到的表現，它會比我們在年初發布指南時的表現更好，而 APM 總體上與我們開始時的表現一致今年的。

So that's how you should think about the three businesses where they were at the beginning of the year when we gave the guide and now when we are reiterating the guide.

因此，這就是您應該如何看待年初我們提供指南時以及現在我們重申指南時所處的三個業務。

Our next question comes from John McNulty from BMO Capital Markets.

我們的下一個問題來自 BMO Capital Markets 的 John McNulty。

So Mark, maybe the first one or so on TSS. You kind of mentioned in passing that you kind of expected some really strong demand in the second half of the year going into that 2024 step-down in HFCs. Your volumes are pretty darn strong actually in the first quarter. I guess, are you seeing any -- or earlier pull than expected for Opteon in some of your HFOs ahead of that step down? Or is this something else?

所以馬克，也許是 TSS 上的第一個左右。您順便提到，您預計在今年下半年進入 2024 年氫氟碳化物削減計劃時會有非常強勁的需求。實際上，第一季度你們的銷量非常強勁。我想，在下台之前，您是否看到您的某些 HFO 中的 Opteon 有任何 - 或比預期更早的拉動？或者這是別的東西？

Yes. John, I think what's driving volume -- what's helping to drive volume in Q1 was the strong automotive SAAR that we saw. Auto volumes were strong in both Europe and the U.S. And so I think as we think of the full year, one question for us would be where do auto volumes go? Clearly, the automotive companies are building cars with the supply chain more normalized. The question is with higher interest rates, does that continue throughout the year?

是的。約翰，我認為推動銷量的因素——有助於推動第一季度銷量的是我們看到的強勁的汽車 SAAR。歐洲和美國的汽車銷量都很強勁。所以我認為，當我們考慮全年時，我們面臨的一個問題是汽車銷量將走向何方？顯然，汽車公司正在製造供應鏈更加規範化的汽車。問題是更高的利率會持續一整年嗎？

So I'd say our record Q1 performance in TSS is in part driven by strong auto, but it's also being driven by continued adoption of Opteon in the stationary side. And then as we said earlier, strong HFCs based on an effective AIM and F-gas framework working as well.

所以我想說我們在 TSS 中創紀錄的第一季度業績部分是由強大的汽車推動的，但它也受到固定方面持續採用 Opteon 的推動。然後正如我們之前所說，基於有效 AIM 和 F-gas 框架的強 HFC 也能發揮作用。

So listen, as Sameer said, TSS is really, out of the starting block, very strong. And we expect TSS to have a great year. TT, I think, is starting a little weaker than expected. But with the focus on cost reduction in that business and a gradual volume recovery, our expectation would be that we could get this business back to 20% EBITDA margins as we exit the year. So the team's really working on both the growth side of the business in TSS and APM as well as the cost side of the business in TT.

所以聽著，正如 Sameer 所說，TSS 確實非常強大。我們希望 TSS 有一個偉大的一年。我認為 TT 的開局比預期的要弱一些。但隨著該業務的成本降低和銷量的逐步恢復，我們預計我們可以在今年結束時將該業務的 EBITDA 利潤率恢復到 20%。因此，該團隊真正致力於 TSS 和 APM 業務的增長方面以及 TT 業務的成本方面。

Got it. Okay. And then maybe just as a follow-up on the TSS business. So the margin snapped back really nicely from the 4Q kind of the dip that we saw. I guess when I think about this business, normally, 1Q isn't the strongest kind of margin quarter just because you've got a little bit more auto, a little bit less kind of stationary. Is that the right way to think about it? And should we be expecting the margins to push higher here just given the strength in autos, which is kind of a constant price degradation story and the lack of like big refrigerant demand in the first quarter? So should we be seeing margin improvement as we kind of go through the year here? Is that the right way to think about it?

知道了。好的。然後可能只是作為 TSS 業務的後續行動。因此，利潤率從我們看到的第 4 季度的下降中非常好地回升。我想當我考慮這項業務時，通常情況下，第一季度並不是利潤率最高的季度，只是因為你有更多的汽車，而不是固定的。這是正確的思考方式嗎？考慮到汽車的強勢，我們是否應該期望這裡的利潤率會更高，這是一種價格持續下降的故事，而且第一季度缺乏類似的大製冷劑需求？那麼，當我們在這裡度過這一年時，我們是否應該看到利潤率有所提高？這是正確的思考方式嗎？

Yes. So listen, I think as it relates to the comparison to Q4, I think we had taken you and our investors through the fact that there were a number of factors that made Q4 more of an aberration than pointing for anything to come.

是的。所以聽著，我認為這與與第四季度的比較有關，我認為我們已經讓你和我們的投資者了解了這樣一個事實，即有許多因素使第四季度更像是一種失常，而不是指向未來的任何事情。

As I look at the full year in TSS, I would expect it to be somewhat comparable to our last year. Clearly, as you saw in the quarter, our margins are down slightly year-over-year based on higher input costs. But no, I think this is a business that has top line growth in low double digits with EBITDA margins -- very attractive EBITDA margins, which we expect all year, Sameer?

當我回顧 TSS 的全年時，我希望它能與去年相提並論。顯然，正如您在本季度看到的那樣，由於投入成本增加，我們的利潤率同比略有下降。但不，我認為這是一家收入增長低兩位數且 EBITDA 利潤率的企業 - 非常有吸引力的 EBITDA 利潤率，我們預計全年，Sameer？

Yes. Thanks, Mark. John, I think, as Mark said, you should, from a full year perspective, look at the margin almost on a comparable basis to last year. I just want to point out that in Q4 last year, we had some one-offs. But overall, if you kind of think about the Q4, we always have the seasonality impact, which impacts the margins. As you know, in that part of the time, we have more sales in the Southern Hemisphere and some of the automotive slowdown happen as well, which impacts the Q4 margins. But overall, if you look at the first 3 quarters of the year, you should expect the margins comparable -- on a comparable basis.

是的。謝謝，馬克。約翰，我認為，正如馬克所說，從全年的角度來看，你應該幾乎在與去年相當的基礎上看待利潤率。我只想指出，在去年第四季度，我們有一些一次性的。但總的來說，如果你考慮一下第四季度，我們總是會受到季節性影響，這會影響利潤率。如您所知，在那段時間裡，我們在南半球的銷量增加了，汽車行業也出現了一些放緩，這影響了第四季度的利潤率。但總的來說，如果你看一下今年的前三個季度，你應該期望利潤率是可比的——在可比的基礎上。

Our next question comes from Josh Spector from UBS.

我們的下一個問題來自瑞銀的 Josh Spector。

This is James Cannon on for Josh. I just wanted to hit a little -- drill in a little more on the TSS segment and just also on the volume side. It seems like you came in even ahead of where auto builds were in the year. I'm wondering, is that a channel fill impact? Or anything else that made 1Q particularly strong? And how we should think about kind of the sequentials as we move through the year there?

這是喬什的詹姆斯坎農。我只是想打一點——在 TSS 部分和音量方面再多鑽一點。看起來你甚至領先於當年的汽車製造。我想知道，這是渠道填充影響嗎？或者其他什麼讓 1Q 特別強勁？當我們在那裡度過一年時，我們應該如何考慮順序的種類？

Yes, I'd say auto is a component of the growth. But clearly, as I said earlier, James, there is continued adoption on the stationary side. Recall that we had told in a previous call that many stationary OEMs have adopted our Opteon refrigerants -- our Opteon blends for their equipment. So we're seeing that impact of adoption on the stationary side as well, as well as some of our other specialty HFO chemistry on the foam side. So the growth is pretty broad-based. But clearly, in terms of versus expectations, the strong auto build certainly was quite helpful in Q1.

是的，我會說汽車是增長的一個組成部分。但很明顯，正如我之前所說，詹姆斯，在固定方面繼續採用。回想一下，我們在之前的電話會議中曾說過，許多固定式 OEM 已採用我們的 Opteon 製冷劑——我們的 Opteon 混合物用於他們的設備。因此，我們也在固定方面看到了採用的影響，以及我們在泡沫方面的一些其他專業 HFO 化學。因此，增長的基礎非常廣泛。但顯然，與預期相比，強勁的汽車製造在第一季度肯定很有幫助。

Yes. James, the only other color I would add to, this is Sameer, is as you kind of think about Opteon Solutions, we are the Tier 1 supplier. So we have a pretty much direct line of sight into the bills, and there's a limited inventory. So we see that demand pick up or slow down pretty quickly in our business.

是的。詹姆斯，我要添加的唯一其他顏色，這是 Sameer，正如您對 Opteon Solutions 的看法，我們是一級供應商。所以我們幾乎可以直接看到賬單，而且庫存有限。因此，我們看到我們業務中的需求增長或放緩的速度非常快。

Okay. Yes. And just as a follow-up to that, if I think about OEMs kind of pulling forward adoption into the first quarter, does that offset maybe what I would think of as a normal seasonal uplift in the second quarter?

好的。是的。作為後續行動，如果我考慮原始設備製造商將採用率提前到第一季度，這是否抵消了我認為第二季度正常的季節性增長？

So clearly, in our full year guide, we're being very thoughtful here not to project out Q1 overage as a full year concept. We tend to stick closer to the IHS forecast in terms of our auto outlook. So clearly, the rate of auto builds beyond Q1 could either be a positive or a negative factor relative to what we would expect in normal seasonality.

很明顯，在我們的全年指南中，我們在這裡非常周到，不會將第一季度超額預測為全年概念。就我們的汽車前景而言，我們傾向於更接近 IHS 的預測。很明顯，相對於我們在正常季節性中的預期，第一季度之後的汽車建造速度可能是一個積極因素，也可能是一個消極因素。

Our next question comes from Arun Viswanathan from RBC Capital Markets.

我們的下一個問題來自 RBC Capital Markets 的 Arun Viswanathan。

I guess I have a similar question to some of those others. So first off, if you just think about Q1 north of $400 million, obviously, you can't annualize that. But Q2 and Q3 seasonally should be higher. What are some of the differences this year that you're seeing that would kind of affect the normal seasonality? And could you just remind us what was the total of, say, the onetime items in Q4 that led to that lower number?

我想我和其他一些人有類似的問題。所以首先，如果你只考慮 4 億美元以上的第一季度，顯然，你不能將其年化。但 Q2 和 Q3 季節性應該更高。您看到今年有哪些差異會影響正常的季節性？你能不能提醒我們，比如說，導致這個數字較低的第 4 季度一次性項目的總數是多少？

Yes. I think we've gone through the Q4 deltas. And obviously, if you want to talk to the IR team, they'll be happy to give you more color. I think we went through it in some detail on the last call. But clearly, I think the main delta that we're seeing as we start the year is stronger auto builds in Q1. We'll see if those persist in Q2. Europe is clearly better. Europe is feeling strong as we start the year.

是的。我認為我們已經經歷了第四季度的三角洲。顯然，如果您想與 IR 團隊交談，他們會很樂意為您提供更多顏色。我想我們在上次通話中詳細介紹了它。但很明顯，我認為我們在今年年初看到的主要三角洲是第一季度更強勁的汽車製造。我們將看看這些是否會在第二季度持續存在。歐洲顯然更好。新年伊始，歐洲感覺很強勁。

In the U.S., I think the outlook is more cautious, if I could use that word. And we will see how that translates into a normal cooling season with a hotter weather in the summer. So I think as we think of the year, we'll look at how the summer season plays out in terms of temperature that could affect our seasonality, along with auto builds.

在美國，我認為前景更加謹慎，如果我可以用這個詞的話。我們將看到這如何轉化為正常的降溫季節，夏季天氣更熱。所以我認為，當我們想到這一年時，我們將研究夏季在可能影響我們季節性的溫度以及汽車製造方面的表現。

And then in the second half of the year, what we would be looking for are people buying ahead of the step down on HFCs to use up their quotas and so that could be a positive versus normal seasonality. I just want to reaffirm what Sameer said earlier that this is a very seasonal business. Q4 tends to be our weakest quarter. But as we said, Q4 last year had a number of items, including some LIFO items that really impacted the quarter and which we have taken you guys through before.

然後在今年下半年，我們要尋找的是人們在氫氟碳化合物逐步減少之前購買以用完他們的配額，因此與正常的季節性相比，這可能是積極的。我只想重申 Sameer 之前所說的，這是一個非常季節性的業務。第四季度往往是我們最疲軟的季度。但正如我們所說，去年第四季度有很多項目，包括一些真正影響了這個季度的後進先出項目，我們之前已經帶過你們。

Great. And then just on APM. You also seem to be, I guess, a little bit different from what we're seeing on the electronics side. So maybe just kind of walk through some of the end markets in APM and highlight some of the areas of strength that you're seeing and maybe weakness if there are any?

偉大的。然後就在 APM 上。我猜你似乎也與我們在電子方面看到的有點不同。因此，也許只是瀏覽 APM 中的一些終端市場，並突出顯示您看到的一些優勢領域，如果有的話，也許是弱點？

Yes. APM is kind of a mix -- well, APM has two distinct portfolios. Performance Solutions and Advanced Materials. And Advanced Materials tends to be "more economically sensitive." These are broad industrial applications, where we saw some volume fade. There are also markets, candidly, we are deemphasizing as we free up inputs to drive the growth on Performance Solutions.

是的。 APM 是一種組合——好吧，APM 有兩個截然不同的產品組合。性能解決方案和先進材料。先進材料往往“對經濟更敏感”。這些是廣泛的工業應用，我們看到了一些數量下降。還有一些市場，坦率地說，我們不再強調市場，因為我們釋放投入來推動性能解決方案的增長。

In terms of areas of strength, our Teflon PFA is integral to any new semicon fab. So while there's some softness in electronics broadly speaking, there's still a lot of focus on building new fabs for higher quality, lower node size chips, where our high-purity PFA is key.

就優勢領域而言，我們的 Teflon PFA 是任何新半導體工廠不可或缺的組成部分。因此，儘管從廣義上講電子產品有些疲軟，但仍然有很多重點放在為更高質量、更小節點尺寸的芯片建造新工廠，而我們的高純度 PFA 是關鍵。

And actually, the limiting factor for us on both things like PFA and Nafion membranes for hydrogen where again, we're sold out is how quickly we can relieve capacity and, in some cases, get permits to expand capacity at some of our plants.

實際上，我們在 PFA 和 Nafion 氫膜等方面的限制因素再次售罄，我們可以多快地釋放產能，在某些情況下，獲得擴大我們一些工廠產能的許可。

So there's kind of a push and a pull within the APM segment this year where the advanced materials is more subject to sort of global macro, which you saw in our results in Q1. And Performance Solutions is really tied mainly to our ability to unlock capacity, which the team is really focused on.

因此，今年 APM 領域有一種推動和拉動，其中先進材料更容易受到某種全球宏觀的影響，你在我們第一季度的結果中看到了這一點。性能解決方案實際上主要與我們釋放容量的能力相關，這是團隊真正關注的。

Yes, and the only -- a couple of other points I would add on the APM side is, as we said at the beginning of the year, for APM, this is a year of transition, right? You saw that in Performance Solutions is up 20%. Advanced Materials down 8%. And Advanced Materials are more economically sensitive business. So that's kind of reflected as you're going to think about overall seasonality into the year, have that overlay of the APM transition as well as you kind of think about overall guide for the full year.

是的，唯一的 - 我要在 APM 方面添加的其他幾點是，正如我們在年初所說的那樣，對於 APM，今年是過渡年，對嗎？您看到 Performance Solutions 增長了 20%。先進材料下跌 8%。而先進材料是對經濟更敏感的業務。因此，當您考慮全年的整體季節性、APM 過渡的疊加以及您考慮全年的總體指南時，這就會有所反映。

Our next question comes from John Roberts from Credit Suisse.

我們的下一個問題來自瑞士信貸的約翰羅伯茨。

On your earlier comment about the regional mix difference with Tronox and TiO2, does that imply the U.S. went through a bigger supply chain correction? And would that be because the U.S. does tinting at the stores while ex-U.S. is factory tinted so maybe there's just structurally more channel inventory of paint that contains pigment in the U.S. versus international?

關於您之前關於 Tronox 和 TiO2 的區域混合差異的評論，這是否意味著美國經歷了更大的供應鏈調整？那是因為美國在美國以外的地方確實在商店裡著色嗎？是工廠著色的，所以也許在美國與國際相比，在結構上有更多含有顏料的油漆渠道庫存？

Yes. John, that's -- I don't know if that's to be true. What we do feel is that a number of U.S. customers are just being a little bit more cautious than they otherwise would be at this time in the year. But yes, we're more represented in terms of U.S. -- the U.S. market, for example, than the European market, which, as I said earlier, went through a significant destocking in Q4 and which has rebounded nicely.

是的。約翰，那是——我不知道那是不是真的。我們確實感覺到，許多美國客戶只是比一年中的這個時候更加謹慎。但是，是的，我們在美國方面的代表更多——例如美國市場，而不是歐洲市場，正如我之前所說，歐洲市場在第四季度經歷了大幅去庫存，並且反彈得很好。

So for example, Europe has been strong for us in TSS given the strength of that economy. But we're less represented in Europe on TiO2 versus some of our other MNC competitors. So I think it actually has to do more with how strong Europe has come back and to some degree, a little bit of caution in the U.S. There may also be a little bit of market exposure, coatings versus plastics, for example.

因此，例如，鑑於歐洲的經濟實力，歐洲在 TSS 方面對我們來說一直很強大。但與我們的一些其他跨國公司競爭對手相比，我們在歐洲的 TiO2 代表較少。所以我認為這實際上更多地與歐洲的強勢回歸有關，在某種程度上，美國有點謹慎。例如，市場風險可能也有一點，塗料與塑料。

Yes, John, this is Sameer. Just -- I would just ask you to just zoom up a little bit here, right? I think the -- it's a lot simpler in our judgment because if you think about it, it's a timing issue, right? Europe went into recession much earlier and started coming back, as we said, even in Q4 last year. So Europe has been coming out, whereas U.S. now, where we are more exposed is becoming more cautious as we kind of think about the impact of the financing markets on the construction side. So I would think of it more from a broader timing perspective rather than individual product or channel perspective.

是的，約翰，這是薩米爾。只是 - 我只想請你在這裡放大一點，對嗎？我認為 - 我們的判斷要簡單得多，因為如果你考慮一下，這是一個時間問題，對吧？正如我們所說，歐洲更早進入衰退並開始復蘇，甚至在去年第四季度也是如此。因此，歐洲一直在走出來，而現在我們暴露更多的美國正變得更加謹慎，因為我們考慮了融資市場對建築方面的影響。所以我會更多地從更廣泛的時間角度而不是單個產品或渠道的角度來考慮它。

Right. And then secondly, are you seeing any TiO2 customers exit the price stabilization contracts and go back to less formulaic pricing?

正確的。其次，您是否看到任何 TiO2 客戶退出價格穩定合同並回到不那麼公式化的定價？

No. I'd say our contracts remain in place. And as I've said many times, we have had no major customer exit any of our major contracts.

不，我會說我們的合同仍然有效。正如我多次說過的那樣，我們沒有任何主要客戶退出我們的任何主要合同。

Our next question comes from Vincent Andrews from Morgan Stanley.

我們的下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的文森特安德魯斯。

This is Will Tang on for Vincent. I guess kind of going back to an earlier question, you guys mentioned that the destocking you saw that took place in EMEA and China was now largely over. Does that mean that if we get into a situation where the macro kind of weakened from here, you might expect TiO2 volumes -- your TiO2 volume at least to increase sequentially, just to kind of get back to the goal sell-in and sell-out rates?

這是文森特的唐威爾。我想回到之前的一個問題，你們提到你們在 EMEA 和中國看到的去庫存現在基本結束了。這是否意味著如果我們進入宏觀從這裡開始走弱的情況，您可能會期望 TiO2 數量——您的 TiO2 數量至少會連續增加，只是為了回到目標賣出和賣出-出率？

I'm not sure I fully understand the question, but I think our expectation is we'll continue to see a gradual recovery in TiO2 volumes throughout the year and sequentially going from Q1 to Q2, double-digit volume growth.

我不確定我是否完全理解這個問題，但我認為我們的預期是我們將繼續看到全年 TiO2 銷量逐漸回升，並從第一季度到第二季度依次出現兩位數的銷量增長。

Yes. And also, as you kind of think about our TVS customers, right, where the incentive to build the inventory as they were going to talk about in the past, is lower as these are percent volume commitment. So I think the volume that you're going to see pull through from them is going to be more representative of their demand.

是的。而且，正如您對我們的 TVS 客戶的一些思考，對的，他們過去要談論的建立庫存的動機較低，因為這些是體積承諾百分比。所以我認為你將從他們那裡看到的數量將更能代表他們的需求。

Got it. Okay. That's helpful. And then going to TSS, I guess as you look at auto builds and maybe expectations for EV production to be lower this year than what we had thought maybe a few months ago. Are there any differences with respect to the TSS content between EVs and ICE? And would that be an incremental headwind just on the mix side?

知道了。好的。這很有幫助。然後去 TSS，我想當你看汽車製造時，可能對今年電動汽車產量的預期低於我們幾個月前的預期。 EV 和 ICE 之間的 TSS 內容是否有任何差異？這會是混合方面的一個漸進逆風嗎？

Actually -- so again, I think our auto build forecast for the year is tied to IHS. Clearly, we've seen really good strong auto builds out of the starting blocks. Some sense that even as we go into April, auto builds remain relatively strong. So I think actually sitting here today, that could be a nice tailwind.

實際上——再次重申，我認為我們今年的汽車製造預測與 IHS 相關。顯然，我們已經從起跑線上看到了非常好的強大的汽車製造。從某種意義上說，即使我們進入 4 月，汽車製造仍然相對強勁。所以我認為今天實際上坐在這裡，這可能是一個很好的順風。

Candidly, on -- as you look at the EV to ICE comparison, EV charge size is actually larger than an internal combustion engine. And so the increased penetration of EVs is actually a positive for our business. And that's probably something we'll share in more detail as we look at overall EV mix as it grows over time. But car for car, the charge size in an EV is somewhat larger than an internal combustion engine where you're using a heat pump essentially to heat the cabin in the winter.

坦率地說，當您查看 EV 與 ICE 的比較時，EV 的充電量實際上大於內燃機。因此，電動汽車普及率的提高實際上對我們的業務有利。隨著時間的推移，隨著整體電動汽車組合的增長，我們可能會更詳細地分享這一點。但是對於汽車來說，電動汽車的充電量比內燃機要大一些，內燃機基本上是在冬天使用熱泵來加熱車廂。

Our next question comes from Matthew DeYoe from Bank of America.

我們的下一個問題來自美國銀行的 Matthew DeYoe。

Yes. This is (inaudible) on for Matt. So firstly, I want to ask a little bit about your margins in TiO2, where I think they came up 11%, and they're still quite lower than some of your peers. So I'm just trying to understand, at this point, is it more a difference of vertical integration? Or are there any other structural changes that are leading to lower margins for Chemours?

是的。這是 Matt 的（聽不清）。所以首先，我想問一下你們在 TiO2 方面的利潤率，我認為它們增長了 11%，但仍然比你們的一些同行低很多。所以我只是想了解，在這一點上，它更多的是垂直整合的差異嗎？還是有任何其他結構性變化導致科慕利潤率下降？

And you mentioned before also that you are focused on closing the Titanium Technologies segment. So can you provide a little bit more color on what some of the initiatives you're taking here?

你之前也提到過你專注於關閉 Titanium Technologies 部門。那麼，您能否就您在這裡採取的一些舉措提供更多色彩？

Yes. So clearly, we're not happy with our current margins. And as I said earlier in the call, have a keen focus on the cost side of that business as we go through the year with the expectation that we'll exit the year at 20% EBITDA margins based on both a gradual volume recovery, and the work we're doing on the cost side.

是的。很明顯，我們對目前的利潤率不滿意。正如我早些時候在電話會議中所說的那樣，在我們度過這一年的過程中，我們將密切關注該業務的成本方面，並預計我們將以 20% 的 EBITDA 利潤率結束這一年我們在成本方面所做的工作。

Denise Dignam who's come into the role of TiO2 President, or TT President, is -- has a really good track record of being focused on the cost side of the business, which he did in APM. And so I think Denise and the team are really focused on how we drive that business forward.

擔任 TiO2 總裁或 TT 總裁一職的丹尼斯·迪格南 (Denise Dignam) 在專注於業務成本方面有著非常良好的記錄，他在 APM 所做的就是如此。所以我認為 Denise 和團隊真正專注於我們如何推動業務向前發展。

The other thing I would tell you is we're clearly adjusting our capacity to be more in line with the volume in the market with the focus on running the business on a full year for cash flow. So I'd tell you, I don't know if margins are always comparable when you have a mix of, say, mining and pigment, but also when you look at how you're running the circuit with a focus on cash generation.

我要告訴你的另一件事是，我們正在明確調整我們的產能，以更符合市場規模，重點是全年經營業務以獲得現金流。所以我要告訴你，我不知道當你混合使用採礦和顏料時，利潤率是否總是具有可比性，而且當你查看你如何以現金產生為重點來運行電路時。

So listen, there are a number of differences. I would say, let's focus on our margins. We're not happy at the 11% level. And the team under Denise's leadership is focused on improving the margin as we move through the year with a target to exit the year at a 20% EBITDA margin.

所以聽著，有很多不同之處。我會說，讓我們關注我們的利潤率。我們對 11% 的水平不滿意。在 Denise 的領導下，團隊專注於提高我們今年的利潤率，目標是在今年以 20% 的 EBITDA 利潤率結束。

Perfect. And as a follow-up, I want to ask a little bit about your agreement with TC Energy on a couple of green hydrogen plants. If you can provide a little bit more detail regarding the investment size, the size, I guess, of electrolyzes, the hydrogen capacity. And just trying to understand, will all of this hydrogen be used by Chemours to kind of decarbonize your own product? Or do you see yourself participating in selling green hydrogen to others as well?

完美的。作為後續行動，我想問一下您與 TC Energy 就幾個綠色氫工廠達成的協議。如果你能提供更多關於投資規模的細節，我猜，電解槽的規模，氫氣容量。只是想了解一下，Chemours 會使用所有這些氫氣來使您自己的產品脫碳嗎？或者您是否認為自己也參與向其他人出售綠色氫氣？

So first of all, we're very excited about our role in renewable hydrogen. We think that has a huge role in decarbonizing economies around the world, and we want to lead by example. So we're working with TC Energy as another member of the ARCH2 Hub application. This is a demonstration hydrogen project in West Virginia, where TC Energy is a partner.

所以首先，我們對我們在可再生氫方面的作用感到非常興奮。我們認為這對全球經濟脫碳具有巨大作用，我們希望以身作則。因此，我們作為 ARCH2 Hub 應用程序的另一個成員與 TC Energy 合作。這是西弗吉尼亞州的一個示範氫項目，TC Energy 是該項目的合作夥伴。

And what we've agreed with TC Energy is we'll be a partner both in the supply of Nafion membranes for the electrolyzers to be used at those facilities, but we'll also be using at least some portion of the hydrogen generated at these facilities in West Virginia -- at our plants in West Virginia, with a commitment to decarbonize our plants.

我們與 TC Energy 達成的協議是，我們將成為合作夥伴，為這些設施中使用的電解槽供應 Nafion 膜，但我們也將至少使用這些設施中產生的部分氫氣西弗吉尼亞州的設施——我們在西弗吉尼亞州的工廠，承諾對我們的工廠進行脫碳。

You would have noticed in the quarter, we received two Department of Energy Awards on our -- the work that we're doing to make our plants more sustainable. And we are on a path to achieve a 60% greenhouse gas reduction -- absolute greenhouse reduction by 60% by 2030 through a number of initiatives, including this one, at all of our plants.

您會在本季度注意到，我們因我們為使我們的工廠更具可持續性所做的工作而獲得了兩項能源部獎。我們正在努力實現減少 60% 的溫室氣體排放——通過我們所有工廠的一系列舉措，到 2030 年將溫室氣體絕對減少 60%，其中包括這一舉措。

So we're very excited about this project and the MOU we've just signed with TC Energy, who is a partner in the ARCH2 Hub submission to the DOE.

因此，我們對這個項目以及我們剛剛與 TC Energy 簽署的諒解備忘錄感到非常興奮，TC Energy 是向 DOE 提交 ARCH2 Hub 的合作夥伴。

Our last question comes from Laurence Alexander from Jefferies.

我們的最後一個問題來自 Jefferies 的 Laurence Alexander。

You mentioned the potential pull forward in refrigerants ahead of the step down. How much of an impact do you think that would have on your volumes after the regulation change?

你提到了在降壓之前製冷劑的潛在拉動。您認為法規變更後會對您的銷量產生多大影響？

So we'll have to wait and see, Laurence, to see what kind of summer we have? I think -- my sense is, and we've indicated this on prior calls, is that the step down is likely to generate some level of buying activity as people sort of look, how much of my quota have I used up in the year, again based on how much demand there is this summer, how much do I have remaining and using that up towards the end of the year.

所以我們必須拭目以待，勞倫斯，看看我們有一個什麼樣的夏天？我認為——我的感覺是，我們在之前的電話會議上已經表明了這一點，即降級可能會產生某種程度的購買活動，正如人們所看到的那樣，我今年用完了多少配額，再次根據今年夏天的需求量，我還剩下多少，並在年底前用完。

Clearly, in a market that's restricted on volume based on a quota, that could drive more robust price in the second half. It may also have some impact on seasonal demand patterns throughout the year in terms of HFC demand as people look at their use of quota versus actual demand in the marketplace. So we'll have to wait and see. But obviously, net-net, it's a favorable impact on the business ahead of the step down next year.

顯然，在基於配額限制交易量的市場中，這可能會在下半年推動更強勁的價格。就 HFC 需求而言，它也可能對全年的季節性需求模式產生一些影響，因為人們會查看他們對配額的使用與市場上的實際需求。所以我們必須拭目以待。但顯然，net-net，在明年下台之前對業務產生了有利影響。

Great. And then can you give a sense for how much -- between where Opteon is now in both the mobility and stationary applications and what you see is like full market penetration where it shifts to growing in line with GDP, how much of a step-up in EBITDA do you expect before you get to like just trend growth?

偉大的。然後，您能否了解 Opteon 現在在移動和固定應用中的位置，以及您所看到的完全市場滲透率（它轉變為與 GDP 同步增長）之間的差距有多大？在您開始喜歡趨勢增長之前，您是否期望 EBITDA？

Yes. Laurence, I wouldn't step away from our sort of long-term guide that we gave in our Investor Day. This is a high single-digit top line CAGR with EBITDA greater than 30%. Clearly, as we said in this call, we are expecting overall margins to be close to where they were last year on a full year basis. But our long-term guide would be, with that in mind, that this is a business with robust top line growth and the team very focused on making this both a high-margin business and a high cash conversion business as we move forward in time.

是的。勞倫斯，我不會放棄我們在投資者日提供的那種長期指南。這是一個很高的個位數複合年增長率，EBITDA 超過 30%。顯然，正如我們在本次電話會議中所說，我們預計全年的整體利潤率將接近去年的水平。但考慮到這一點，我們的長期指導方針是，這是一家收入增長強勁的企業，隨著時間的推移，團隊非常專注於使其成為高利潤業務和高現金轉換業務.

Okay. Great. And then just lastly, there's a large chunk of fluoropolymer and related chemistries market share available after 2025. Can you give a sense of how much of that Chemours should be able to pick up? And do you need to do any investments in 2024 on either in terms of new formulations, qualifications, customer service cost or CapEx to pick up that share?

好的。偉大的。最後一點，到 2025 年之後，含氟聚合物和相關化學品的市場份額將很大。您能說說科慕應該能夠佔據多少市場份額？您是否需要在 2024 年在新配方、資格、客戶服務成本或資本支出方面進行任何投資才能獲得該份額？

Yes. Laurence, it's a great question. We obviously believe that fluoropolymers are essential for modern living, but they are also key to renew economy whether we're talking about high-speed data, AI, electric vehicles, hydrogen. And our big investments in APM today are focused on hydrogen, where we are wanting to do a significant expansion of our Nafion membrane capacity and capabilities.

是的。勞倫斯，這是一個很好的問題。我們顯然相信含氟聚合物對現代生活必不可少，但無論我們談論的是高速數據、人工智能、電動汽車還是氫，它們也是經濟復甦的關鍵。我們今天對 APM 的大量投資集中在氫氣上，我們希望在這方面顯著擴展我們的 Nafion 膜容量和能力。

We're also expanding our Teflon PFA line in our Washington Works plant in West Virginia, which, by the way, we're the only PFA supplier in the U.S. So if there's a U.S. onshoring of chips, we're key to that whole activity.

我們還在西弗吉尼亞州華盛頓工廠的工廠擴建 Teflon PFA 生產線，順便說一句，我們是美國唯一的 PFA 供應商。因此，如果美國有芯片外包，我們將是整個過程的關鍵活動。

So listen, the investments that we've announced today are both in Teflon PFA as well as the hydrogen facility, which we would like to cite in Villers-Saint-Paul in France, and we continue to be focused on those near-term opportunities. But the team is also very focused on debottlenecking a number of our plants.

聽著，我們今天宣布的投資既有 Teflon PFA 也有氫氣設施，我們想在法國的 Villers-Saint-Paul 引用，我們將繼續關注這些近期機會.但該團隊也非常專注於消除我們許多工廠的瓶頸。

Again, whether it's demand for materials on the EV side, we're really focused on the growth in our Performance Solutions business, which as you saw in the quarter, was up 20% and really is subject to more of our ability to bring capacity online more quickly.

同樣，無論是電動汽車方面對材料的需求，我們真正關注的是性能解決方案業務的增長，正如您在本季度看到的那樣，該業務增長了 20%，並且實際上取決於我們提高產能的能力上線更快。

Interestingly, Performance Solutions was 31% of the portfolio last year. In this recent quarter, it's 39%. So that higher CAGR is making the APM segment a lot more specialized as we move forward in time. And candidly, when I look at our TSS and APM business, I really would agree with the sentiment that our multiple doesn't reflect the power of the earnings of those businesses over time. So we're very excited about where we go from here, and the team is very focused on delivering.

有趣的是，Performance Solutions 去年佔投資組合的 31%。在最近一個季度，這一比例為 39%。因此，隨著時間的推移，更高的複合年增長率使 APM 細分市場更加專業化。坦率地說，當我審視我們的 TSS 和 APM 業務時，我真的同意這樣一種觀點，即我們的倍數並未反映這些業務隨時間推移的盈利能力。因此，我們對未來的發展方向感到非常興奮，並且團隊非常專注於交付。

And I guess, if I may, just would you be looking to expand into novel formulations, chemistries end markets? Or is it more just -- because you have such significant growth opportunity in the market that you're already in. Is it more just a matter of trying to keep up with that demand curve?

我想，如果可以的話，您是否希望擴展到新的配方、化學品終端市場？或者它更只是——因為你在市場上有如此重要的增長機會，而你已經進入了這個市場。這只是一個試圖跟上需求曲線的問題嗎？

Yes. The team is really focused on where we can add more value in sort of adjacent applications or provide more value in some of our downstream applications. Obviously, we're very thoughtful about potential channel conflicts. But we think there's real value in understanding how the chemistry works from all the way back from the monomer right through to the end application. And some of these are, for example, manifesting themselves in joint ventures.

是的。該團隊真正關注的是我們可以在哪些方面為相鄰應用程序增加更多價值，或者在我們的一些下游應用程序中提供更多價值。顯然，我們對潛在的渠道沖突考慮周到。但我們認為了解化學從單體到最終應用的整個過程的工作原理具有真正的價值。例如，其中一些體現在合資企業中。

So we did a joint venture with FUMATECH in Germany on fuel cell membranes, where we have all the supply chain, we have all the chemistry from the monomer forward but they have a lot of expertise in membrane capacity. So we're working with them on that.

因此，我們與德國的 FUMATECH 建立了燃料電池膜合資企業，在那裡我們擁有所有供應鏈，我們擁有從單體向前的所有化學反應，但他們在膜容量方面擁有很多專業知識。所以我們正在與他們合作。

Yes. Laurence, this is Sameer. The only one thing I would add is as you kind of think about the growth in that business is we had a big change in strategy under Denise when he had laid out the APM business. Effectively, it's going to be market-led innovation, but we have some very unique properties that our materials apply. And as you're going to think about the market needs, it's going to be market-led innovation that's going to drive the growth of business.

是的。勞倫斯，這是薩米爾。我要補充的唯一一件事是，當你考慮到該業務的增長時，我們在 Denise 領導下佈局 APM 業務時在戰略上發生了重大變化。實際上，這將是市場主導的創新，但我們的材料具有一些非常獨特的特性。當您考慮市場需求時，市場主導的創新將推動業務增長。

And we have a follow-up question from Matthew DeYoe from Bank of America.

美國銀行的 Matthew DeYoe 提出了後續問題。

A couple of last questions since we have some time. The first one was in the TiO2 segment, you had previously mentioned that you see EBITDA for this year kind of as a worst-case scenario of $500 million. And just given the current outlook Q1 performance, I'm wondering, is it still the case that you're targeting at the mean $500 million for 2023?

由於我們有一些時間，所以有幾個最後的問題。第一個是在 TiO2 領域，您之前提到過您認為今年的 EBITDA 是最壞情況下的 5 億美元。鑑於當前第一季度的業績展望，我想知道，您是否仍將 2023 年的平均目標定為 5 億美元？

Yes. This is Sameer. I'll take this one. Yes, we stand by the number you had in the past that, that, hey, given all the changes and the market dynamics that we had in the business, the trough should be 500-ish is how we're going to talk about.

是的。這是薩米爾。我要這個。是的，我們堅持你過去的數字，嘿，考慮到我們在業務中的所有變化和市場動態，低谷應該是 500-ish 是我們要談論的。

Okay. Perfect. And the second one is in your APM amount, you're talking about higher production and raw material costs. Can you provide a little bit more color on the inflation you're seeing there, both in terms of what level of inflation and also what categories, what raw materials are still going up?

好的。完美的。第二個是你的 APM 數量，你說的是更高的生產和原材料成本。你能否提供更多關於你在那裡看到的通貨膨脹的顏色，無論是通貨膨脹水平還是哪些類別，哪些原材料仍在上漲？

Yes. This is Sameer, I'll start and Mark can add color. Overall, as you're going to think about the inflation side, it really depends business to business, right, because they all consume very different raw materials. So I won't generalize over the top. But the comment I do like to make is, as we laid out in the script as well is as we progress through the year, we expect the inflation headwinds to moderate and that should really help drive the margin as well. And that's reflected in how we're going to think about the TT margin recovery as we go through the year. So overall, the headwinds are moderating quite a bit as the supply chains have eased.

是的。我是 Sameer，我會開始，Mark 可以添加顏色。總的來說，當你考慮通貨膨脹方面時，這真的取決於企業與企業，對吧，因為它們都消耗非常不同的原材料。所以我不會一概而論。但我想發表的評論是，正如我們在劇本中所闡述的那樣，隨著我們這一年的進展，我們預計通脹逆風將會緩和，這也應該真正有助於推動利潤率。這反映在我們將如何考慮今年的 TT 利潤率恢復。因此，總體而言，隨著供應鏈的放鬆，逆風正在緩和很多。

Yes. Now clearly, I'd say energy to some degree or we're seeing prices have already rolled over significantly. And as we look to the rest of the year, our procurement team is really taking advantage of a low inflation environment to drive cost improvement across the portfolio.

是的。現在很明顯，我會在某種程度上說能源，或者我們看到價格已經大幅上漲。展望今年剩餘時間，我們的採購團隊確實在利用低通脹環境來推動整個產品組合的成本改善。

Yes. And as you kind of look at the last comment I would make is look at the earnings slides as well, right? Again, in this quarter, the pricing has stayed ahead of the costs line item as well. So we are staying super focused on the commercial side as well to make sure we stay ahead of any inflations.

是的。當你看最後一條評論時，我也會看一下收益幻燈片，對吧？同樣，在本季度，定價也一直領先於成本項目。因此，我們也非常關注商業方面，以確保我們領先於任何通貨膨脹。

We have no further questions. I would like to turn the call back over to Mark Newman for closing remarks.

我們沒有其他問題了。我想將電話轉回給 Mark Newman 以作結束語。

So thank you all for your interest in Chemours today. The team is remaining very focused on delivering another great year, and it's great to reaffirm our guide for the full year. And we look forward to seeing you on the road and to taking your follow-up questions throughout the day today. Thank you.

感謝大家今天對科慕的關注。該團隊仍然非常專注於創造又一個偉大的一年，很高興重申我們全年的指南。我們期待在路上見到您，並在今天全天回答您的後續問題。謝謝。

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連接。