CAMP4 Therapeutics Corp (CAMP) 2024 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to CalAmp's Second Quarter 2024 Financial Results Conference Call. My name is Cole, and I'll be the moderator for today's call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this call is being recorded. I would now like to introduce your host for today's conference call, Logan Lucas, Corporate Strategy and Investor Relations Manager at CalAmp. Logan, you may begin.

歡迎參加 CalAmp 2024 年第二季財務業績電話會議。我叫科爾，我將擔任今天電話會議的主持人。 （操作員說明）謹此提醒，此通話正在錄音。現在我想介紹今天電話會議的主持人 Logan Lucas，他是 CalAmp 的企業策略和投資者關係經理。洛根，你可以開始了。

Good afternoon, and welcome to CalAmp's Fiscal Second Quarter 2024 Financial Results Conference Call. I'm Logan Lucas, Corporate Strategy and Investor Relations Manager at CalAmp. With us today are CalAmp's Interim President and Chief Executive Officer, Jason Cohenour, and Chief Financial Officer, Jikun Kim.

下午好，歡迎參加 CalAmp 2024 年第二季財務業績電話會議。我是 CalAmp 的企業策略和投資者關係經理 Logan Lucas。今天與我們在一起的有 CalAmp 的臨時總裁兼執行長 Jason Cohenour 和財務長 Jikun Kim。

During today's call, we will make certain forward-looking statements within the meaning of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933 and Section 21E of the Exchange Act of 1934. Forward-looking statements are predictions, projections and other statements about future events that are based on current expectations and assumptions, and as a result, are subject to risks and uncertainties. Many factors could cause actual future events to differ materially from the forward-looking statements in this communication.

在今天的電話會議中，我們將做出1933 年《證券法》第27A 條和1934 年《交易法》第21E 條含義內的某些前瞻性陳述。前瞻性陳述是對未來事件的預測、預測和其他陳述。基於當前的預期和假設，因此會受到風險和不確定性的影響。許多因素可能導致未來的實際事件與本新聞稿中的前瞻性聲明有重大差異。

You should listen to today's call with the understanding that our actual results may be materially different from the plans, intentions and expectations disclosed in the forward-looking statements we make. For more information about factors that may cause actual results to differ materially from forward-looking statements, please refer to the earnings press release we issued today as well as the company's filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Readers are cautioned not to put undue reliance on forward-looking statements, and the company specifically disclaims any obligation to update the forward-looking statements that may be discussed during this call.

您在聆聽今天的電話會議時應該了解，我們的實際結果可能與我們在前瞻性聲明中披露的計劃、意圖和期望存在重大差異。有關可能導致實際結果與前瞻性陳述存在重大差異的因素的更多信息，請參閱我們今天發布的收益新聞稿以及該公司向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件。請讀者不要過度依賴前瞻性陳述，且該公司明確表示不承擔更新本次電話會議期間可能討論的前瞻性陳述的任何義務。

Now Jason will begin today's call with a review of the company's recent operational highlights, and then Jikun will provide a more detailed review of the financial results followed by a question-and-answer session.

現在，傑森將在今天的電話會議中回顧公司最近的營運亮點，然後吉坤將對財務業績進行更詳細的回顧，然後進行問答環節。

With that, it is my great pleasure to turn the call over to CalAmp's Interim President and CEO, Jason Cohenour. Jason, please go ahead.

至此，我非常高興地將電話轉給 CalAmp 的臨時總裁兼執行長 Jason Cohenour。傑森，請繼續。

Thank you, Logan, and thanks to all of you for joining us on the call today. I will start by taking a moment to express our heartfelt condolences to the family, friends and teammates of Jeff Gardner following his passing in late August. Jeff was not only a passionate leader for this organization, but a kind and compassionate friend to many. We appreciate the effort and countless hours he put into CalAmp over these past few years, taking on challenges and opportunities with positivity and resilience. He had a truly remarkable life and career and the outreach the company has received on his behalf, following his unexpected passing is a testament to the positive impact he had on others along the way. The CalAmp team is keeping Jeff and his loved ones in our thoughts and hearts through this difficult time.

謝謝洛根，也謝謝大家今天加入我們的電話會議。首先，我要花一點時間向傑夫加德納 (Jeff Gardner) 八月底去世後的家人、朋友和隊友表示衷心的哀悼。傑夫不僅是這個組織充滿熱情的領導者，也是許多人的善良和富有同情心的朋友。我們感謝他在過去幾年中為 CalAmp 付出的努力和無數時間，以積極和堅韌的態度迎接挑戰和機遇。他擁有真正非凡的生活和職業生涯，在他意外去世後，公司為他提供了外展服務，證明了他一路走來對其他人產生的積極影響。在這段困難時期，CalAmp 團隊將 Jeff 和他的親人銘記於心。

Moving to our results. The company's second quarter for fiscal year 2024 produced mixed results. While we continue to experience demand softness with TSP customers, we saw strength in other parts of the business, including international connected car and with our large industrial OEM customer. The TSP softness is attributed to continued customer inventory rebalancing, following the fulfillment of a large volume of orders in the second half of fiscal year 2023. These orders have been backlogged due to the severe supply chain constraints that we and many others encountered over the past few years.

轉向我們的結果。該公司 2024 財年第二季的業績好壞參半。雖然我們繼續經歷 TSP 客戶的需求疲軟，但我們看到了業務其他部分的優勢，包括國際連網汽車和我們的大型工業 OEM 客戶。 TSP 疲軟歸因於 2023 財年下半年履行大量訂單後，客戶庫存持續重新平衡。由於我們和許多其他公司過去遇到的嚴重供應鏈限制，這些訂單已經積壓了幾年。

Additionally, competitive pressures experienced by our TSP customers have complicated the inventory rebalancing process. We are continuing to work with each of these customers as they align their inventory levels with demand. Consolidated Q2 revenue was $61.7 million, which was below our guidance range. Revenue from TSPs which was lower than expected was the key driver of the revenue miss. Q2 adjusted EBITDA was $5.9 million, which was within our guidance range.

此外，我們的 TSP 客戶所經歷的競爭壓力使庫存重新平衡過程變得複雜。我們將繼續與這些客戶合作，讓他們根據需求調整庫存水準。第二季合併收入為 6,170 萬美元，低於我們的指導範圍。來自 TSP 的收入低於預期是收入低於預期的主要驅動因素。第二季調整後 EBITDA 為 590 萬美元，在我們的指導範圍內。

The company also delivered strong cash flow from operations of $7.1 million. The strength in adjusted EBITDA and cash flow from operations is primarily the result of cost savings initiatives. Some of these initiatives were carried out during the second quarter, so we expect to see some incremental expense reductions from our previous actions in the back half of the year. We continue to evaluate opportunities to refocus, simplify and streamline the business. On the product front, our team continues to push forward with several initiatives focused on value creation for our customers. For example, in the second quarter, we launched our electronic logging device or ELD, to help customers streamline their compliance workflows.

該公司還實現了 710 萬美元的強勁營運現金流。調整後的 EBITDA 和營運現金流的強勁主要歸功於成本節約措施。其中一些措施是在第二季度實施的，因此我們預計下半年的費用將比先前的措施減少。我們持續評估重新調整業務重點、簡化業務的機會。在產品方面，我們的團隊持續推動多項旨在為客戶創造價值的措施。例如，在第二季度，我們推出了電子記錄設備或 ELD，以幫助客戶簡化其合規工作流程。

Our ELD solution is integrated with the rest of our fleet management product suite and adds to a portfolio that we plan to leverage to drive increased ARPU and gross margins in our fleet segments. We also commenced commercial shipments of our new Vision 2.0 dash cam solution during the quarter and now have our first successful installations. We expect to see additional commercial traction with vision at our fleet customers in the coming months and quarters.

我們的 ELD 解決方案與我們車隊管理產品套件的其餘部分集成，並添加到我們計劃利用的產品組合中，以提高我們車隊細分市場的 ARPU 和毛利率。我們也在本季開始了新型 Vision 2.0 行車記錄器解決方案的商業出貨，現在已經首次成功安裝。我們預計在未來幾個月和幾個季度，我們的車隊客戶將看到更多的商業吸引力。

We also secured several new customer wins during the quarter, including with Transportes Castores, one of the largest transportation and logistics companies in Mexico. Transportes Castores is leveraging both CalAmp's in-cab and trailer tracking solutions to pull data from their assets and to integrate the data with their proprietary enterprise applications. The solution provides seamless visibility across the customers' operations, and illustrates our unique ability to integrate data from many different asset types into a variety of systems, thereby providing highly tailored insights that drive efficiency safety and compliance.

我們還在本季度贏得了多個新客戶，其中包括墨西哥最大的運輸和物流公司之一 Transportes Castores。 Transportes Castores 正在利用 CalAmp 的駕駛室和拖車追蹤解決方案從其資產中提取數據，並將數據與其專有的企業應用程式整合。該解決方案提供了整個客戶運營的無縫可見性，並展示了我們將來自許多不同資產類型的數據整合到各種系統中的獨特能力，從而提供高度客製化的見解，從而提高效率、安全性和合規性。

We are excited to embark on this partnership with Transportes Castores to optimize the management of their fleet. Our international connected car business continued to deliver strong performance during the quarter, driven by expanding relationships with large automotive OEMs and rental customers, particularly in Europe. We expect this segment to continue to deliver consistent profitable growth as we expand with our customers, secure new B2B customers and grow new geographical markets such as Spain. With respect to the CalAmp team, you may have seen the news regarding the departure of our Chief Revenue Officer.

我們很高興與 Transportes Castores 建立合作夥伴關係，以優化其車隊的管理。在與大型汽車原始設備製造商和租賃客戶（尤其是歐洲）的關係不斷擴大的推動下，我們的國際連網汽車業務在本季度繼續表現強勁。我們預計，隨著我們與客戶的合作、獲得新的 B2B 客戶以及發展西班牙等新的地域市場，該部門將繼續實現持續的獲利成長。關於 CalAmp 團隊，您可能已經看到了有關我們首席營收長離職的消息。

In response to this departure, we have elevated two highly qualified individuals to lead this critical function. One of these team members now leads new revenue generation, while the other leads customer success and sales operations. Both leaders report directly to the CEO and the transition has been seamless. Our CEO search is ongoing, and interest in the position is high. And while we have met with some excellent candidates, we have no new additional news to share regarding the search at this time. Similarly, our exploration of strategic alternatives is ongoing, and we have no additional news to report at this time.

為了因應這項離職，我們提拔了兩位高素質人員來領導這項關鍵職能。其中一名團隊成員現在領導新的收入創造，而另一位則領導客戶成功和銷售營運。兩位領導人都直接向執行長匯報，過渡順利。我們正在尋找首席執行官，人們對該職位的興趣很高。雖然我們已經會見了一些優秀的候選人，但目前我們沒有關於搜尋的新的額外消息可以分享。同樣，我們正在探索戰略替代方案，目前我們沒有其他消息可報告。

As for me, I've been serving as the interim CEO of CalAmp since August 28, following Jeff's tragic passing. I can report without hesitation that the CalAmp team is talented and passionate and they believe in the opportunity before us. In addition to having a great team, the company has other tremendous assets. Including excellent products and solutions, a blue-chip customer base and a large and growing market opportunity. While I am here, I will be supporting the team. I will be supporting customers, and I will be helping the team to hone focus, to execute operationally and to capture efficiencies as we strive to deliver profitable growth, and positive cash flow.

至於我，自 8 月 28 日 Jeff 不幸去世以來，我一直擔任 CalAmp 的臨時執行長。我可以毫不猶豫地報告 CalAmp 團隊才華橫溢、充滿熱情，他們相信我們面前的機會。除了擁有一支優秀的團隊之外，該公司還擁有其他巨大的資產。包括卓越的產品和解決方案、藍籌客戶群以及龐大且不斷成長的市場機會。當我在這裡時，我將支持球隊。我將支持客戶，並幫助團隊在努力實現獲利成長和正現金流的同時，磨練重點、執行營運並提高效率。

With that, I'll turn the call over to Jikun to discuss our second quarter financial results in more detail. Jikun?

接下來，我將把電話轉給季琨，更詳細地討論我們第二季的財務表現。季坤？

Thank you, Jason, and thank you for stepping up to this transition. My commentary will include references to our non-GAAP financial measures. A full reconciliation of these non-GAAP measures with the corresponding GAAP measure is included in our earnings release. The total revenue in the second quarter was $61.7 million. Revenues declined 15% year-over-year and 13% sequentially from $70.9 million last quarter.

謝謝你，賈森，也謝謝你推動這項轉變。我的評論將包括對我們的非公認會計準則財務指標的提及。這些非公認會計準則衡量標準與相應的公認會計準則衡量標準的全面對帳已包含在我們的收益發布中。第二季總收入為6,170萬美元。營收較上季的 7,090 萬美元年減 15%，比上一季下降 13%。

Much of the year-over-year and sequential revenue decline was driven by lower sales to our telematics service provider customers. As Jason mentioned in his remarks, the revenue decline was driven by our TSP customers continuing to rebalance their inventories while also navigating competitive pressures in their end markets. We now expect this inventory rebalancing with our TSP customers to take longer than previously expected. Revenue declines from the TSP customers were partially offset by revenue increases from our industrial and international connected car businesses.

收入年比和環比下降的主要原因是我們的遠端資訊處理服務提供者客戶的銷售額下降。正如 Jason 在演講中提到的，收入下降是由於我們的 TSP 客戶繼續重新平衡庫存，同時應對終端市場的競爭壓力。我們現在預計與 TSP 客戶的庫存再平衡將比之前預期的時間更長。 TSP 客戶的收入下降被我們的工業和國際連網汽車業務的收入成長所部分抵消。

Recurring application subscription revenues in the quarter were $18.7 million, a $500,000 sequential decline. Most of the decline was driven by a $400,000 June catch-up for prior period accounting cleanups and corrections. RPO and hardware backlog ended the quarter at $194 million and $14 million, respectively. RPO declined $24 million and hardware backlog declined $6 million sequentially. The RPO and hardware backlog decline was driven by customer PO fulfillment as well as GSP conversions that have already been completed. Consolidated gross margin in the second quarter was 36% compared to 38% last quarter. The sequential gross margin decline was driven by lower volumes and unfavorable product mix.

本季經常性應用程式訂閱收入為 1,870 萬美元，比上一季下降 50 萬美元。下降的主要原因是 6 月為前期會計清理和更正而追加了 40 萬美元。本季結束時，RPO 和硬體積壓訂單分別為 1.94 億美元和 1,400 萬美元。 RPO 環比下降了 2,400 萬美元，硬體積壓訂單環比下降了 600 萬美元。 RPO 和硬體積壓訂單下降是由客戶 PO 履行以及已完成的 GSP 轉換所推動的。第二季綜合毛利率為 36%，上一季為 38%。毛利率環比下降是由於銷量下降和不利的產品組合造成的。

Second quarter GAAP operating expenses declined $3.9 million sequentially and $8.8 million year-over-year. The cost reductions that we implemented over the past 12 months are starting to significantly impact not only our OpEx, but also our cost of goods sold and CapEx. Q2 FY '24 adjusted EBITDA was $5.9 million or 9.5% of revenue, essentially flat compared to the $6 million in the prior quarter. Year-over-year, adjusted EBITDA increased by $1.1 million. At the end of Q2 FY '24, we had a total cash and cash equivalents of $38.5 million as compared to $35 million last quarter, an increase of $3.6 million.

第二季 GAAP 營運費用較上季下降 390 萬美元，較去年同期下降 880 萬美元。我們在過去 12 個月中實施的成本削減不僅開始對我們的營運支出產生重大影響，而且還對我們的銷售成本和資本支出產生重大影響。 2024 財年第二季調整後 EBITDA 為 590 萬美元，佔營收的 9.5%，與上一季的 600 萬美元基本持平。調整後 EBITDA 年比增加 110 萬美元。截至 24 財年第二季末，我們的現金和現金等價物總額為 3,850 萬美元，較上季的 3,500 萬美元增加了 360 萬美元。

Cash flow from operations was $7.1 million in the second quarter. Positive cash flow was driven by a $4.2 million cash flow from operations, excluding working capital changes as well as a $2.9 million in net working capital reductions. Unlike the prior quarter, working capital changes worked in our favor in Q2. Compared to the prior quarter, cash flow from operations, excluding working capital, increased by $100,000 sequentially and continues to be strong despite volume reductions. Cash flow stability is driven by our cost reductions.

第二季營運現金流為 710 萬美元。正現金流是由 420 萬美元的營運現金流推動的，不包括營運資本變化以及 290 萬美元的淨營運資本減少。與上一季不同，第二季的營運資金變化對我們有利。與上一季相比，營運現金流（不包括營運資金）環比增加了 10 萬美元，儘管數量減少，但仍保持強勁。現金流的穩定性是由我們的成本降低所推動的。

At the end of the quarter, we have $32.7 million in undrawn asset-backed line availability. This availability is subject to customary covenant tests. The $230 million, 2% coupon convertible notes are due on August 1, 2025. Our objective is to generate a high-quality EBITDA run rate in order to optimize our options for refinancing the convertible notes. As demonstrated over the past few quarters, EBITDA performance has been strong and stable. We believe that our future EBITDA run rate increases were driven by several factors and initiatives, including the normalization of TSP revenues, as we stabilize and then return to growth in this market segment, growth in recurring revenues, driven by new solution introductions such as Vision 2.0 which we expect to drive significant ARPU growth with new and existing customers.

截至本季末，我們有 3,270 萬美元的未動用資產支持額度。這種可用性需要經過慣例的契約測試。價值 2.3 億美元、息票率 2% 的可轉換票據將於 2025 年 8 月 1 日到期。我們的目標是產生高品質的 EBITDA 運行率，以優化我們為可轉換票據再融資的選擇。正如過去幾個季度所證明的那樣，EBITDA 表現強勁且穩定。我們相信，我們未來EBITDA 運行率的成長是由多種因素和舉措推動的，包括TSP 收入的正常化（隨著我們穩定並恢復該細分市場的增長）、經常性收入的增長（由Vision 等新解決方案的推出推動） 2.0 我們預計將推動新舊客戶的 ARPU 顯著成長。

Improvements in gross margin, trending back to our historical levels and continued focus on our cost management. In addition, we will have to continue our vigilance with respect to cash flow and cash generation. Continued strong EBITDA and positive cash flow will enable us to retire a portion of the convertible loan as it matures. In addition, we are actively exploring a range of additional financing options and how they can play in our capital structure. From a business outlook standpoint, we continue to manage through a dynamic situation with our TSP customers and we expect Q3 FY '24 revenues and adjusted EBITDA to be slightly down sequentially. With that, I'll turn the call back over to Jason for some final thoughts. Jason?

毛利率有所改善，恢復到歷史水平，並繼續關注成本管理。此外，我們必須繼續對現金流和現金產生保持警惕。持續強勁的 EBITDA 和正現金流將使我們能夠在可轉換貸款到期時收回部分貸款。此外，我們正在積極探索一系列額外的融資方案以及它們如何在我們的資本結構中發揮作用。從業務前景的角度來看，我們將繼續應對 TSP 客戶的動態形勢，我們預計 24 財年第三季的營收和調整後 EBITDA 將較上季略有下降。這樣，我會將電話轉回給傑森，以徵求一些最後的想法。傑森？

Thank you, Jikun. In closing, I will assert our unwavering commitment to our customers, partners, employees and investors. While we have experienced challenges, we also see tremendous opportunity ahead, and we are confident in our ability to overcome these obstacles and to return to profitable growth. Thanks to all of you for your continued support and interest in the company.

謝謝你，吉坤。最後，我將重申我們對客戶、合作夥伴、員工和投資者堅定不移的承諾。雖然我們經歷了挑戰，但我們也看到了巨大的機遇，我們對克服這些障礙並恢復獲利成長充滿信心。感謝大家一直以來對公司的支持與關注。

With that, we will now open the call to your questions. Operator?

現在，我們將開始回答您的問題。操作員？

We will now begin the Q&A session. (Operator Instructions) Our first question is from Jerry Revich with Goldman Sachs.

我們現在開始問答環節。 （操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自高盛的 Jerry Revich。

This is Adam Bubes on for Jerry today. Nice to see the positive cash flow from ops. Just wondering if you could talk about how you're thinking about the free cash flow trajectory from here? What does normalized free cash flow conversion look like in this business? And when can you get there?

我是 Adam Bubes，今天為 Jerry 發言。很高興看到營運部門的正現金流。只是想知道您是否可以談談您如何看待這裡的自由現金流軌跡？該業務的標準化自由現金流轉換是什麼樣的？你什麼時候能到達那裡？

Yes. I think Jerry asked me this question last quarter also. So thank you for your question. So you can see based on the last few quarters of cash flow statements that cash flow from operations, excluding working capital changes have been in the $4 million range, right? We're at $4.2 million this quarter. I think we were at $4.1 million last quarter. Working capital worked in our favor this quarter. It didn't last quarter. The question that you asked about free cash flow and stability. I think, one, we need to make sure that our revenue is back to where it should be, right, and then be able to project that into the future.

是的。我想傑瑞上個季度也問過我這個問題。謝謝你的提問。因此，根據過去幾季的現金流量表，您可以看到，營運現金流量（不包括營運資金變化）一直在 400 萬美元範圍內，對吧？本季我們的營收為 420 萬美元。我認為上個季度我們的營收為 410 萬美元。本季營運資金對我們有利。上個季度沒有。您提出的關於自由現金流和穩定性的問題。我認為，第一，我們需要確保我們的收入回到應有的水平，然後能夠將其預測到未來。

But what you're experiencing is very strong cost management from management as well as continued vigilance in that capacity. So it's difficult for me to say based on the working capital changes that we have right now, but I think you can be sure that we will do our hardest and utmost to make sure that we manage our costs and continue to generate cash here.

但您所經歷的是管理層非常強大的成本管理以及對此能力的持續警惕。因此，根據我們目前的營運資金變化，我很難說，但我認為您可以確信，我們將盡最大努力確保我們管理成本並繼續在這裡產生現金。

And it looks like revenue per subscriber in the Software and Subscription segment was down sequentially. Just wondering if you could unpack the moving pieces there? What's the price versus -- true core price versus mix impact? And what's the path here going forward now that most of conversion is through, should we expect higher ARPU starting to flow through that metric?

軟體和訂閱領域的每位訂閱者收入似乎連續下降。只是想知道你是否可以在那裡拆開移動部件？價格與真正的核心價格與組合影響相比是多少？既然大部分轉換已經完成，接下來的發展路徑是什麼？我們是否應該期望更高的 ARPU 開始通過該指標？

Yes. So keep in mind, I think it was commented in our prepared remarks as well as our earnings release. That we had about a $400,000 recurring revenue churn catch-up impact that we corrected in the quarter. So the recurring revenue is -- should be roughly $400,000 higher. We had some accounting errors in the past that we corrected in this quarter, right? I just caught up. So if you do that, I think you'll see the ARPUs coming back a little better from a calculation standpoint. Fundamentally, we are looking to grow our recurring revenue business, and it's on new applications like Vision and ELD.

是的。因此請記住，我認為我們在準備好的演講以及我們的收益發布中對此進行了評論。我們在本季修正了約 40 萬美元的經常性收入流失追趕影響。因此，經常性收入應該高出約 40 萬美元。我們過去有一些會計錯誤，我們在本季度糾正了，對嗎？我剛剛趕上。因此，如果您這樣做，我認為從計算的角度來看，您會發現 ARPU 有所回升。從根本上說，我們希望發展我們的經常性收入業務，並且它是在 Vision 和 ELD 等新應用程式上。

We just launched Vision 2 months ago, 3 months ago, and we're starting to see -- we're seeing very good pipeline and customer interest. We just need to convert those and accelerate those into the fourth quarter. We have an opportunity coming up in the December time frame as school buses, school kids go on vacation during school versus us during the Christmas time, and we'll be able to fit a lot more of those vision opportunities onto our customers' fleets.

我們剛剛在兩個月前、三個月前推出了 Vision，我們開始看到——我們看到了非常好的管道和客戶興趣。我們只需要將這些轉換並加速到第四季。我們在 12 月的時間範圍內將有一個機會，因為校車、學生在學校期間度假，而我們在聖誕節期間度假，我們將能夠將更多這樣的願景機會安裝到我們客戶的車隊上。

And then I'll add in, I'll add a little bit of color. As these -- as we complete these conversions, that's going to boost subscriber count. And those TSP customers come in at a lower ARPU, right? So that's going to be -- we're going to have a battle of mix, if you will, as those low ARPU customers come in and as we win new higher ARPU customers with products like Vision and ELD. So a couple of moving parts there with respect to ARPU.

然後我會添加，我會添加一點顏色。當我們完成這些轉換時，訂閱者數量將會增加。這些 TSP 客戶的 ARPU 值較低，對吧？所以，如果你願意的話，我們將進行一場混合戰，因為那些低 ARPU 客戶的進來，以及我們透過 Vision 和 ELD 等產品贏得新的更高 ARPU 客戶的情況。就 ARPU 而言，有一些變化因素。

Got it. Helpful. And then lastly for me, on the Q3 revenue and adjusted EBITDA guide to be down slightly sequentially. Could you provide any color by segment there? What will software and subscription be up sequentially? Or are we expecting both segments to be down?

知道了。有幫助。最後對我來說，第三季的營收和調整後的 EBITDA 指南將比去年同期略有下降。你能在那裡按段提供任何顏色嗎？軟體和訂閱將依序更新什麼？或者我們預期這兩個細分市場都會下降？

Yes. So again, we don't break out the subcomponents of the revenue, but you can see that our TSP has a very large impact on our business. And so you'll -- what you're seeing is the continued -- our customers continuing to rebalance their inventory positions. In terms of recurring revenue, I would hope that we could do better.

是的。同樣，我們沒有細分收入的子組成部分，但你可以看到我們的 TSP 對我們的業務有非常大的影響。因此，您將看到，我們的客戶將繼續重新平衡其庫存狀況。在經常性收入方面，我希望我們能做得更好。

Our next question is from Scott Searle with Ralph.

我們的下一個問題來自斯科特·塞爾和拉爾夫。

Jason, just wanted to extend my condolences to you, your team and Jeff's family and his untimely passing. Maybe to follow up on -- to follow up on some of the earlier questions. I'm wondering what is the level of normalized TSP that you would expect -- and then on the OpEx front, Jikun, that's been coming down. It sounds like there's more that will come out in the back half of this year. Is there an absolute number that you could calibrate us with?

傑森，我只是想向你、你的團隊和傑夫的家人以及他的英年早逝表示哀悼。也許是為了跟進一些早期的問題。我想知道您期望的標準化 TSP 水平是多少，然後在營運支出方面，Jikun，這個水平一直在下降。聽起來今年下半年還會有更多內容問世。有一個絕對數字可以用來校準我們嗎？

Yes. So I mean, so most of the cost reductions that we implemented on the OpEx side were done earlier in the year. We just had transition periods where that we had to make sure that various tasks that employees were responsible, were transferred to the appropriate people. So you're going to see -- I mean, it's not going to be $3.8 million quarter-over-quarter, but it should be a little down and it's not a lot, but just a little bit.

是的。所以我的意思是，我們在營運支出方面實施的大部分成本削減都是在今年稍早完成的。我們只是有過渡期，必須確保員工負責的各種任務轉移給適當的人。所以你會看到——我的意思是，季度環比不會是 380 萬美元，但應該會有所下降，而且不是很多，只是一點點。

In terms of TSPs. Yes. I mean it's normalization of TSPs. I mean I can tell you in 2021, we did $104 million in '22, we did $91 million and '23, we did $110 million, right? Those are historical numbers. You need to figure out, obviously, when we can get back there and whether that's sustainable or not, as our customers provide us feedback and information. Jason, any thoughts on that?

就 TSP 而言。是的。我的意思是 TSP 的標準化。我的意思是，我可以在 2021 年告訴你，我們在 22 年賺了 1.04 億美元，在 2023 年賺了 9,100 萬美元，到了 23 年賺了 1.1 億美元，對吧？這些都是歷史數字。顯然，當我們的客戶向我們提供反饋和資訊時，您需要弄清楚我們何時可以回到那裡以及這是否可持續。傑森，對此有什麼想法嗎？

Yes. Just a little more color, Scott, on the TSPs. I mean it was the part of our business that was considerably softer than we expected in Q2. So down considerably from Q1 and down considerably from historical run rates. So we're -- we believe we're battling through this inventory rebalancing thing, but we're also conscious of the fact that our TSPs operate in a very competitive environment, right? So we need to keep an eye on that as well. We're hoping we're around stability here, Scott, and we can grow from here. But to be candid, there's still a little bit of uncertainty around that channel, where inventory levels are and should be and the ability of our TSPs to compete in a pretty competitive marketplace. So I would say we're getting our arms around that. Obviously, it surprised us in Q2 and we will know more in the quarters that come.

是的。斯科特，在 TSP 上再多一點顏色。我的意思是，我們業務的一部分在第二季比我們預期的要軟得多。因此，與第一季相比大幅下降，與歷史運行率相比也大幅下降。所以我們相信我們正在努力解決庫存再平衡問題，但我們也意​​識到我們的 TSP 是在一個競爭非常激烈的環境中運作的，對嗎？所以我們也需要密切注意這一點。我們希望這裡能保持穩定，史考特，我們可以從這裡成長。但坦白說，該通路仍存在一些不確定性，庫存水準是、應該是，以及我們的 TSP 在競爭相當激烈的市場中競爭的能力。所以我想說我們正在努力解決這個問題。顯然，它在第二季度讓我們感到驚訝，我們將在接下來的幾個季度中了解更多。

Okay. Very helpful. And as my follow-up, and perhaps a little bit unfair given the transition in current events. But as you start to think about the convert and what you need to do to be able to refinance that, it implies that EBITDA levels are higher than where we are today. Currently, you've got to get the top line going a little bit more and more subscription. It seems like OpEx has been tightened up. I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about timing and model as it relates to EBITDA margins or otherwise as we get out several quarters from now to think about that? Because I guess you got to be getting close to doing 10, 12 or more in terms of quarterly EBITDA to be able to fully handle that convert?

好的。很有幫助。作為我的後續行動，考慮到時事的轉變，也許有點不公平。但當您開始考慮轉換以及您需要做什麼才能為其再融資時，這意味著 EBITDA 水平高於我們今天的水平。目前，你必須讓營收變得越來越多的訂閱。看來營運支出已經收緊了。我想知道您是否可以談談與 EBITDA 利潤率相關的時間表和模型，或者我們在幾個季度後考慮這個問題？因為我猜你必須接近 10、12 或更多的季度 EBITDA 才能完全處理這種轉換？

Yes. So again, we provided next quarter guidance, but I can point in some direction from the current quarter, if you like, right? So we missed revenue guidance. The midpoint would have been $70 million that would have generated roughly an $8 million revenue increase -- I mean our revenues would have been $8 million higher. You can add a gross margin number to that. And if you make the assumption that, that drops down, you kind of get a feel for where we could be, have our revenues normalize sometime in the future. And I'm not saying [$70 million] is a normalized revenue, but that was the midpoint of our guidance.

是的。再說一次，我們提供了下個季度的指導，但如果您願意，我可以指出當前季度的某個方向，對吧？所以我們錯過了收入指引。中點是 7000 萬美元，這將產生大約 800 萬美元的收入成長——我的意思是我們的收入將增加 800 萬美元。您可以在其中添加毛利率數字。如果你假設這個數字下降了，你會感覺到我們可以達到什麼水平，讓我們的收入在未來某個時候恢復正常。我並不是說 [7000 萬美元] 是正常化收入，但這是我們指導的中點。

Yes. And I'll add, Scott. I mean, you're not all faced with respect to -- you're not off base with respect to EBITDA levels we need to get to. In order to have maximum optionality, maximum options on the convert, and that has got to come through a combination of growth, obviously, and continued vigilance on cost and not just OpEx but COGS as well.

是的。我要補充一點，史考特。我的意思是，你們並沒有面臨我們需要達到的 EBITDA 水準的問題。為了獲得最大的可選性、最大的轉換選項，顯然，這必須透過成長和對成本的持續警惕相結合，不僅是營運支出，還包括銷售成本。

Our next question is from George Notter with Jefferies.

我們的下一個問題來自傑弗里斯的喬治·諾特。

I guess a clarification. Can you guys give us the backlog metrics in RPO metrics that you referenced earlier in the monologue?

我想需要澄清一下。你們能為我們提供你們先前在獨白中提到的 RPO 指標中的積壓指標嗎？

Sure. Do you have another question? I'll dig that up for you in a minute.

當然。你還有其他問題想問嗎？我一會兒就會給你挖出來。

Yes. And then I also wanted to just kind of go through what are the options on refinancing the convertible debt? I'm kind of wondering how you guys are thinking about it, obviously, growing the EBITDA as part of the formula here. But I'm just wondering what kind of options are available to you? What are you contemplating?

是的。然後我還想了解可轉換債務再融資有哪些選擇？我有點想知道你們是如何看待這個問題的，顯然，將增加 EBITDA 作為公式的一部分。但我只是想知道您有哪些選擇？你在想什麼？

Sure. So just going back to your first question, our RPO was $194 million, and our hardware backlog was $14 million in the quarter. At the end of the quarter I'm sorry. Anything else on that?

當然。回到你的第一個問題，本季我們的 RPO 為 1.94 億美元，硬體積壓訂單為 1400 萬美元。在本季末，我很抱歉。對此還有其他什麼嗎？

And then no, I'm just curious about your refinancing options. How do you think about it?

不，我只是對你們的再融資選擇感到好奇。你覺得怎麼樣？

Yes, yes, sure, sure. So I mean, it's clear that we've got to do better from a top line standpoint and generate sustainable, sufficient EBITDA. Higher the EBITDA more optionality we'll have. But look at it at the same time, the RPO -- the 2% convertible note has a 2% coupon on it. It's very valuable, right? So as we increase our EBITDA and revenues come back, you're going to see more cash flow drop to the bottom line. And ideally, some portion of this 2% coupon, I'd like to take to maturity and pay it off at maturity. Right? And then we're looking at once you get the EBITDA high enough, we might have term loans available to us, different types of financial instruments that might be available to us. So the key is operational performance, revenue growth, EBITDA growth and which will provide various levers that we might build to pull on.

是的，是的，當然，當然。所以我的意思是，很明顯，從營收的角度來看，我們必須做得更好，並產生可持續的、足夠的 EBITDA。 EBITDA 越高，我們的選擇餘地就越大。但同時看看 RPO——2% 的可轉換票據，上面有 2% 的優惠券。非常有價值，對吧？因此，當我們增加 EBITDA 和收入回升時，您將看到更多的現金流下降到底線。理想情況下，我想將這 2% 息票的一部分帶到到期日並在到期時還清。正確的？然後，我們會考慮，一旦 EBITDA 足夠高，我們可能會獲得定期貸款，以及不同類型的金融工具。因此，關鍵是營運績效、收入成長、EBITDA 成長，這將提供我們可以利用的各種槓桿。

There are no additional questions waiting at this time. So I'll pass the call back over to Jason Cohenour for any closing remarks.

目前沒有其他問題等待。因此，我會將電話轉回賈森·科恩諾 (Jason Cohenour)，讓其發表結束語。

Thank you very much, and thank you to everybody for joining us on the call today and for your continued interest in CalAmp. We look forward to speaking with you during our third quarter earnings call. Operator, you may now disconnect the call.

非常感謝，也感謝大家今天加入我們的電話會議，感謝大家對 CalAmp 的持續關注。我們期待在第三季財報電話會議上與您交談。接線員，您現在可以掛斷電話了。