Babcock & Wilcox Enterprises Inc (BW) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon. Thank you for attending the Babcock & Wilcox Enterprises Fourth Quarter 2024 Conference Call. (Operator Instructions)

午安.感謝您參加 Babcock & Wilcox Enterprises 2024 年第四季電話會議。（操作員指示）

I would like to turn the conference over to your host, Sharyn Brooks, B&W's Director of Communications. Thank you. You may proceed, Mrs. Brooks.

我想將會議交給主持人、B&W 的通訊總監 Sharyn Brooks。謝謝。您可以繼續，布魯克斯夫人。

Thank you, Cameron, and thanks to everyone for joining us on Babcock & Wilcox Enterprises Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2024 Earnings Conference Call.

謝謝你，卡梅倫，也謝謝大家參加 Babcock & Wilcox Enterprises 2024 年第四季和全年財報電話會議。

I'm Sharyn Brooks, Director of Communications and Marketing. Joining the call today are Kenny Young, B&W's Chairman and Chief Executive Officer; and Cameron Frymyer, Chief Financial Officer, to discuss our fourth quarter results.

我是傳播和行銷總監 Sharyn Brooks。今天參加電話會議的有 B&W 董事長兼執行長 Kenny Young；和財務長 Cameron Frymyer 討論我們的第四季業績。

During this call, certain statements we make will be forward-looking. These statements are subject to risks and uncertainties, including those set forth in our safe harbor provision for forward-looking statements that can be found at the end of our earnings press release and in our annual report on Form 10-K that has been filed with the SEC today. Additionally, except as required by law, we undertake no obligation to update any forward-looking statement.

在本次電話會議中，我們所做的某些陳述將具有前瞻性。這些聲明受到風險和不確定性的影響，包括我們的前瞻性聲明安全港條款中規定的風險和不確定性，這些條款可在我們的收益新聞稿末尾和今天向美國證券交易委員會提交的 10-K 表年度報告中找到。此外，除法律要求外，我們不承擔更新任何前瞻性聲明的義務。

We also provide non-GAAP information, including regarding certain of our historical and targeted results to supplement the results provided in accordance with GAAP. This information should not be considered superior to or as a substitute for the comparable GAAP measures. A reconciliation of historical non-GAAP measures can be found in our earnings release published this afternoon and in our company overview presentation filed on Form 8-K today and posted on the Investor Relations section of our website at babcock.com.

我們還提供非 GAAP 信息，包括有關我們的某些歷史和目標結果的信息，以補充根據 GAAP 提供的結果。此資訊不應被視為優於或替代可比較的 GAAP 指標。歷史非 GAAP 指標的對帳可以在我們今天下午發布的收益報告和我們今天以 8-K 表格形式提交的公司概況介紹中找到，並發佈在我們的網站 babcock.com 的投資者關係部分。

I will now turn the call over to Kenny.

我現在將電話轉給肯尼。

Thanks, Sharyn. Well, good afternoon, everyone, and thanks for joining us on our fourth quarter and full year 2024 earnings call.

謝謝，莎琳。大家下午好，感謝您參加我們的 2024 年第四季和全年財報電話會議。

In 2024, we took specific actions that align with our business strategy that also paved the way to refinance or reduce our current debt obligations in 2025. With intent, we are shifting our focus on continued operations toward greater predictable revenues and margins, particularly from our Thermal operations based on tailwinds of increased demand from the utility and industrial power generation sectors.

2024 年，我們採取了符合業務策略的具體行動，這也為 2025 年再融資或減少當前債務鋪平了道路。我們有意將重點從持續營運轉向更可預測的收入和利潤，特別是基於公用事業和工業發電行業需求增長的順風，來自熱力運營的業務。

We also see new biomass energy plants becoming a reality in North America and anticipate possible bookings later this year. We saw improvements across many of our top metrics during the fourth quarter of 2024, including improvements in revenues, operating income and adjusted EBITDA when compared to 2023. Our fourth quarter revenue came in at $200.8 million compared to $174.7 million in the fourth quarter of 2023, which was an increase of 15%.

我們還看到新的生物質能源工廠在北美成為現實，並預計今年稍後可能會有訂單。2024 年第四季度，我們的許多主要指標均有所改善，包括與 2023 年相比收入、營業收入和調整後 EBITDA 有所改善。我們的第四季營收為 2.008 億美元，而 2023 年第四季為 1.747 億美元，成長了 15%。

Operating income from continuing operations increased to $11.6 million in the fourth quarter of 2024 compared to operating loss from continuing operations of $3.3 million in the fourth quarter of 2023, reflecting the continued strong production of our core businesses.

2024 年第四季持續經營業務的營業收入增至 1,160 萬美元，而 2023 年第四季持續經營業務的營業虧損為 330 萬美元，這反映了我們核心業務的持續強勁生產。

Adjusted EBITDA from continuing operations was $24.0 million in the fourth quarter of 2024, which was a 55% year-over-year increase compared to the fourth quarter of 2023. Our margins are benefiting from our strategic shift to reduce reliance on high interest, low-margin new build projects.

2024 年第四季持續經營業務的調整後 EBITDA 為 2,400 萬美元，與 2023 年第四季相比年增 55%。我們的策略轉變減少了對高利息、低利潤的新建專案的依賴，從而使我們的利潤率受益。

And after taking into account the recent divestitures, we have revised our full year 2025 EBITDA target range to be $70 million to $85 million, excluding BrightLoop and ClimateBright expenses. Importantly, we continue to invest in our BrightLoop opportunity to continue to anticipate spending in the range of $10 million to $15 million in 2025 on our BrightLoop projects and technology advancement, including CapEx, which is apart from the Massillon construction.

考慮到最近的資產剝離後，我們將 2025 年全年 EBITDA 目標範圍修改為 7,000 萬美元至 8,500 萬美元，不包括 BrightLoop 和 ClimateBright 費用。重要的是，我們將繼續投資我們的 BrightLoop 機會，繼續預計 2025 年我們在 BrightLoop 項目和技術進步上的支出將在 1000 萬至 1500 萬美元之間，包括 Massillon 建設之外的資本支出。

Transitioning to our full year financial performance on a continuing operations basis. We continue to display a year-over-year improvement in adjusted EBITDA, excluding BrightLoop and ClimateBright with a 13% increase from 2023 on yearly totals. We expect our improving adjusted EBITDA performance trend to continue as we move through 2025, leading to our full year 2025 adjusted EBITDA target range of $70 million to $85 million.

過渡到以持續經營為基礎的全年財務表現。我們的調整後 EBITDA 繼續同比增長，不包括 BrightLoop 和 ClimateBright，年度總額較 2023 年增長 13%。我們預計，到 2025 年，調整後 EBITDA 業績的改善趨勢將持續下去，從而使 2025 年全年調整後 EBITDA 目標範圍達到 7,000 萬美元至 8,500 萬美元。

Revenues remained stable across the year with the largest positive impact seen in our Environmental segment, and perhaps the strongest performance across 2024 came in our bookings and backlog numbers. We continued to see strong demand for our diverse portfolio of technologies, which is driving our increased bookings of approximately $900 million in 2024 and a backlog now of over $540 million as we enter 2025.

全年營收保持穩定，其中環境部門的正面影響最大，而 2024 年最強勁的表現或許來自於我們的預訂量和積壓訂單數量。我們繼續看到市場對我們多樣化技術組合的強勁需求，這推動我們在 2024 年的訂單量增加約 9 億美元，而進入 2025 年，積壓訂單量已超過 5.4 億美元。

Specifically in 2024, we saw a year-over-year increase of 39% in our bookings and 47% in our backlog. We believe that these results affirm our strategic approach while underpinning our pipeline and outlook for sustained growth in 2025 and beyond.

具體來說，到 2024 年，我們的預訂量年增 39%，積壓訂單量年增 47%。我們相信，這些結果肯定了我們的策略方針，同時也鞏固了我們在 2025 年及以後持續成長的前景和前景。

We believe the increasing need for power and electricity fueled by demand from AI data centers, electric vehicles and expanding economies will be key drivers for our growth across our broad range of technologies. We are seeing utility and industrial clients, including the oil and gas sector, continuing to increase capacity utilizing our core technologies while evaluating further power generation augmentation through biomass, hydrogen and natural gas. We expect these tailwinds to increase in the coming years as the amount of front-end engineering design or FEED opportunities has grown.

我們相信，人工智慧資料中心、電動車和不斷擴大的經濟需求所推動的電力需求的不斷增長將成為我們廣泛技術領域成長的關鍵驅動力。我們看到，包括石油和天然氣行業在內的公用事業和工業客戶正在繼續利用我們的核心技術來增加產能，同時評估透過生物質、氫氣和天然氣進一步增加發電量。我們預計，隨著前端工程設計或 FEED 機會數量的增加，未來幾年這些順風因素將會增加。

Today, we have 12 to 15 active FEED studies that represent potential projects of over $1 billion in revenues in our pipeline. We believe that these expected industry tailwinds provide a strong foundation for B&W to grow in 2025 and beyond as we continue to drive for higher margins and improved cash flows.

目前，我們有 12 至 15 項正在進行的 FEED 研究，這些研究代表我們正在進行的計畫的潛在收入超過 10 億美元。我們相信，隨著我們繼續追求更高的利潤率和更好的現金流，這些預期的行業順風將為 B&W 在 2025 年及以後的成長奠定堅實的基礎。

Overall, our results in the fourth quarter and across 2024 reflect the strong demand for our diverse portfolio that support the generation of efficient and sustainable energy regardless of fuel source. B&W has developed a strong foundation to capitalize on the continued growth in natural gas conversions, environmental solutions, carbon capture, and clean energy opportunities globally with utility and industrial customers.

總體而言，我們第四季度及整個 2024 年的業績反映了對我們多元化產品組合的強勁需求，這些產品組合支持高效、可持續能源的生產，無論燃料來源如何。B&W 已建立了堅實的基礎，以便利用全球公用事業和工業客戶在天然氣轉換、環境解決方案、碳捕獲和清潔能源機會方面的持續成長。

Our investments across our ClimateBright suite of decarbonization technology to support the world's energy transition are progressing well, and we're making steady progress on our BrightLoop project in Massillon, Ohio with a target of producing hydrogen by early 2026.

我們對 ClimateBright 脫碳技術套件的投資正在順利推進，以支持世界能源轉型，我們在俄亥俄州馬西隆的 BrightLoop 項目也正在穩步推進，目標是到 2026 年初生產氫氣。

Notably, we also recently announced a $10 million in funding for the development of a BrightLoop hydrogen production and carbon capture facility in Mason County, West Virginia. We remain fully committed to expanding our BrightLoop commercial activities in the years ahead with targeted bookings of approximately $1 billion by 2028, which represents less than 1% of the estimated global market for hydrogen production.

值得注意的是，我們最近還宣布撥款 1000 萬美元用於在西維吉尼亞州梅森縣開發 BrightLoop 氫氣生產和碳捕獲設施。我們將繼續全力致力於在未來幾年擴大我們的 BrightLoop 商業活動，目標是到 2028 年實現約 10 億美元的訂單，這不到全球氫氣生產市場預估的 1%。

Within BrightLoop, it's been extremely exciting to watch our team advance the engineering process and the business towards deploying these technologies at scale and further expanding our suite of carbon capture solutions.

在 BrightLoop 內部，看到我們的團隊推進工程流程和業務，大規模部署這些技術並進一步擴展我們的碳捕獲解決方案套件，我們感到非常興奮。

During 2024, we made further progress on our stated strategy to divest nonstrategic assets to improve our balance sheet, avoid internationally large new build projects and reduce associated corporate overhead. Importantly, we remain in negotiations related to the sale of other assets and in discussions with new senior lenders and certain bondholders to potentially reduce or refinance our current debt.

2024 年，我們在既定策略方面取得了進一步進展，即剝離非策略性資產以改善資產負債表，避免國際大型新建專案並減少相關的公司管理費用。重要的是，我們仍在就出售其他資產進行談判，並與新的優先貸款人和某些債券持有人進行討論，以可能減少或再融資我們當前的債務。

I'll now turn the call over to Cameron to discuss the financial details for the fourth quarter and full year of 2024 results. As previously disclosed, Cameron has officially taken over as B&W's CFO, following Lou Salamone's retirement at the end of 2024. I'd like to express my sincere gratitude to Lou for his steadfast leadership over the past six years, and we wish him all the best in his retirement. Cameron has an extensive background and career here at Babcock & Wilcox, and I'm excited about moving forward together.

現在我將把電話轉給卡梅倫，討論 2024 年第四季和全年的財務細節。正如先前披露的，卡梅倫已正式接任 B&W 首席財務官一職，接替盧·薩拉蒙 (Lou Salamone) 於 2024 年底退休。我要向樓繼偉過去六年來的堅定領導表示誠摯的感謝，並祝他退休後一切順利。卡梅倫在 Babcock & Wilcox 公司擁有豐富的背景和職業生涯，我很高興能與他一起前進。

And with that, I'll turn things over to Cameron. Cameron?

說完這些，我會把事情交給卡梅倫。卡梅倫？

Thanks, Kenny. I am pleased to review our full year 2024 results in addition to commenting on our financial position entering 2025. For further detail, I call your attention to the fact that we filed our 10-K with the SEC this afternoon and you can refer to it for further details beyond what we discuss in this call.

謝謝，肯尼。除了評論我們進入 2025 年的財務狀況外，我還很高興回顧我們 2024 年全年的表現。為了了解更多詳細信息，我提請您注意，我們今天下午向美國證券交易委員會 (SEC) 提交了 10-K 報告，您可以參考該報告以了解我們在本次電話會議中討論的內容以外的更多詳細信息。

On a continuing operations basis, our 2024 consolidated revenues were $717.3 million, which remained stable compared to the revenue levels in the prior year. Net loss from continuing operations in 2024 was $73 million, which was a better result compared to the net loss of continuing operations of $75.8 million in 2023, primarily related to an overall decrease in our costs and expenses, offset partially by higher interest expense and banking fees. In addition, we had a loss per share of $0.96 in 2024 compared to a loss per share of $1.02 in 2023.

以持續經營計算，我們 2024 年的合併收入為 7.173 億美元，與前一年的收入水準相比保持穩定。2024 年持續營業淨虧損為 7,300 萬美元，與 2023 年持續經營淨虧損 7,580 萬美元相比有所好轉，這主要與我們的成本和費用總體下降有關，但利息支出和銀行費用的增加部分抵消了這一影響。此外，2024 年我們的每股虧損為 0.96 美元，而 2023 年的每股虧損為 1.02 美元。

Our adjusted EBITDA from continuing operations was $68.9 million compared to $60.8 million in 2023. Bookings and backlog performed very well across the year with year-end bookings coming in at $889.6 million, a 39% increase from the $638.7 million in 2023, while backlog saw a 47% increase from $368.2 million in 2023 to $540.1 million in 2024.

我們來自持續經營的調整後 EBITDA 為 6,890 萬美元，而 2023 年為 6,080 萬美元。全年預訂量和積壓訂單表現非常出色，年終預訂量達到 8.896 億美元，較 2023 年的 6.387 億美元增長 39%，而積壓訂單量從 2023 年的 3.682 億美元增長 47% 至 2024 年的 5.401 億美元。

SPIG, B&W Renewable Services, and Vølund were reclassified into discontinued operations for 2024, and their results are no longer reflected in our continuing operations.

SPIG、B&W Renewable Services 和 Vølund 被重新歸類為 2024 年停止營運的業務，其績效不再反映在我們的持續營運中。

Our parts and services core business remained strong even with recent coal plant closures and natural gas conversions. Our robust backlog of $540.1 million and the strength of our parts business gives us confidence in our full year 2025 adjusted EBITDA target range of $70 million to $85 million.

即使最近煤電廠關閉和天然氣轉換，我們的零件和服務核心業務仍然保持強勁。我們擁有 5.401 億美元的強勁積壓訂單，零件業務的強勁表現使我們對 2025 年全年調整後的 EBITDA 目標範圍充滿信心，即 7000 萬美元至 8500 萬美元。

I will now turn to our balance sheet and liquidity and comment on our positive outlook for improving cash flow trends in 2025. Total debt at December 31, 2024, was $464.6 million, of which $124 million would have come due in January 2027, but due to the springing maturity related to the $193 million of senior notes, is now due in November of 2025 and therefore has been classified as current. In addition, the $193 million of senior notes will be due February 2026 and is within 12 months of the date of -- 12 months from the date of our 10-K filing.

現在，我將談談我們的資產負債表和流動性，並評論我們對 2025 年改善現金流趨勢的正面展望。截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日的總債務為 4.646 億美元，其中 1.24 億美元原定於 2027 年 1 月到期，但由於 1.93 億美元優先票據的到期日即將到來，現在將於 2025 年 11 月到期，因此被歸類為當前債務。此外，1.93 億美元的優先票據將於 2026 年 2 月到期，在我們提交 10-K 報告之日起 12 個月內。

The company has had cash, cash equivalents and restricted cash balance of $127.6 million as of December 31. Given the size of the debt and the classification of the debt now being current, this raises a substantial doubt about the company's ability to continue as a going concern. However, it is important to point out that management believes it is taking all the necessary actions to address the current senior notes that will remove this springing date as our senior debt and, if successful, we believe these actions will alleviate the going concern.

截至 12 月 31 日，該公司的現金、現金等價物和受限現金餘額為 1.276 億美元。鑑於債務規模和當前的債務分類，這引起了人們對該公司繼續經營的能力的重大懷疑。然而，必須指出的是，管理層認為正在採取一切必要措施解決當前的優先票據問題，從而取消這一生效日期作為我們的優先債務，如果成功，我們相信這些措施將減輕持續經營的壓力。

The significant steps we have taken to strategically realign B&W in recent quarters positions us for improved cash flow generation in the years ahead. Specifically, as Kenny mentioned, we completed the sale of our SPIG and GMAB businesses for net proceeds of $33.4 million in the fourth quarter, which improved our balance sheet and demonstrated our ability to continue to execute our stated strategy to sell certain assets. The company's core business continues to perform ahead of expectations, and we anticipate returning to positive cash flows in 2025.

在最近幾個季度，我們採取了重大舉措對 B&W 進行策略調整，這將使我們在未來幾年內提​​高現金流的產生率。具體來說，正如肯尼所提到的，我們在第四季度完成了 SPIG 和 GMAB 業務的出售，淨收益為 3340 萬美元，這改善了我們的資產負債表，並表明我們有能力繼續執行既定的出售某些資產的策略。公司核心業務持續表現超出預期，我們預期2025年現金流將恢復正值。

Looking forward, one of our top priorities is the refinancing of our current debt obligations. We are in discussions regarding refinancing of our debt with key bondholders as well as junior lenders and remain in process to sell certain other assets. The proceeds of these sales will be used primarily to pay down existing debt and working capital moving forward.

展望未來，我們的首要任務之一是對當前債務進行再融資。我們正在與主要債券持有人以及次級貸款人討論債務再融資事宜，並且仍在出售某些其他資產。這些銷售所得將主要用於償還現有債務和未來的營運資金。

I will now turn the call back over to Kenny.

我現在將電話轉回給肯尼。

Thanks, Cameron. Well, in closing, we continue to execute against our strategic plan and remain intently focused on driving further improvements in our balance sheet. Our global pipeline of over $7.6 billion in identified project opportunities remains healthy across all segments, and we anticipate prospects for new bookings and stronger financial performance throughout 2025.

謝謝，卡梅倫。最後，我們將繼續執行我們的策略計劃，並繼續專注於推動資產負債表的進一步改善。我們在全球範圍內已確定的超過 76 億美元的項目機會在所有領域都保持著良好的發展勢頭，我們預計 2025 年全年將有新的訂單和更強勁的財務業績。

B&W has deep industry expertise with clean energy and carbon capture technologies. And with our long history in traditional energy sources and highly experienced and capable employees, we believe we are well positioned to deliver improved value and consistent growth for everyone, including our shareholders.

B&W 在清潔能源和碳捕獲技術方面擁有深厚的行業專業知識。憑藉我們在傳統能源領域的悠久歷史以及經驗豐富、能力出眾的員工，我們相信我們有能力為包括股東在內的每個人帶來更高的價值和持續的成長。

I would like to wrap up today by recognizing and thanking our customers as well as our employees who help meet the challenges of energy demand around the world.

今天，我想最後感謝我們的客戶和員工，他們幫助我們應對全球能源需求的挑戰。

I will now turn the call back over to Cameron, who will help us with a few questions. Cameron?

現在我將把電話轉回給卡梅倫，他將幫助我們解答幾個問題。卡梅倫？

(Operator Instructions) Aaron Spychalla, Craig-Hallum.

（操作員指示）Aaron Spychalla，Craig-Hallum。

First for me on the guidance, a little bit wider range than normal to start the year. Can you just kind of discuss some of the puts and takes there? What might get you to the top end versus the low end and just kind of confidence as we head through the year, how that builds, especially considering the new large coal-to-gas project?

對我來說，首先是指導，年初的範圍比平時要寬一些。您能否簡單討論一下其中的一些優點和缺點？什麼可能讓你達到最高點而不是最低點，以及在我們度過這一年的過程中，這種信心是如何建立的，特別是考慮到新的大型煤製氣項目？

Yes. I think the -- there's a couple of key metrics in there. I mean, first of all, with the introduction of all of the tariffs that have been recently announced, has some ups and downs as it relates to our business. Typically, the tariffs are all passed through to customers in this particular case, but really don't know the economic impact of what customers may do, either delay a start of a project or delay a project to wait for, hopefully, the tariffs get removed and affect the margin of the project for the customer standpoint. So we just don't know the outcome of that particular piece and how it's going to play out, obviously, over the course of the year. So we're just keeping an eye on the tariff aspects on one hand.

是的。我認為——其中有幾個關鍵指標。我的意思是，首先，隨著最近宣布的所有關稅的出台，這對我們的業務來說有一些起伏。通常情況下，在這種特殊情況下，關稅都會轉嫁給客戶，但真的不知道客戶可能採取的行動會對經濟產生什麼影響，要么推遲項目的啟動，要么推遲項目等待，希望關稅能夠取消，並從客戶的角度影響項目的利潤。所以我們只是不知道這個特定作品的結果，以及它在今年內將如何發揮作用。因此，我們一方面關注關稅方面。

And then obviously, we need to get through some of the debt restructuring and financing, which on that particular front, to manage through, obviously, any impacts that would have, particularly on the business, if it's from a cost standpoint. So we just need to see how that shakes out. So there's a couple of key areas that we're focused on that gives us to step back and say, hey, let's give a little bit of a range here. So we just don't know the impact of some of these, in particular, some of the tariffs that are being introduced.

然後顯然，我們需要完成一些債務重組和融資，在這個特定的方面，顯然要管理好任何可能產生的影響，特別是對業務的影響，如果是從成本的角度來看的話。所以我們只需要看看結果如何。因此，我們重點關注幾個關鍵領域，這些領域讓我們退一步說，嘿，讓我們在這裡給出一點範圍。因此，我們只是不知道其中一些政策的影響，特別是一些正在實施的關稅的影響。

Right. And on that, I mean, I know it's still early and obviously evolving by the day. But what's your kind of current thoughts on -- are you seeing an impact there? Any kind of delays in project timing versus how you're maybe thinking about it a quarter or two ago?

正確的。關於這一點，我的意思是，我知道現在還為時過早，而且顯然每天都在發展。但是您目前對此有何看法—您是否看到了影響？與您一兩個季度前考慮的相比，專案時間有任何延遲嗎？

No. Well, the answer is we're in discussions with several customers on several aspects, right? We have -- we bring in, obviously, equipment around the world or pieces of some of the projects that we execute on in North America come in from around the world. And obviously, some things get exported out of the US to other places in the world.

不。嗯，答案是我們正在與幾位客戶就幾個方面進行討論，對嗎？顯然，我們從世界各地引進了設備，或者我們在北美執行的一些項目的部件也來自世界各地。顯然，有些產品會從美國出口到世界其他地方。

So we've got the tariff issue on both sides of the equation on some projects. So too early to know specific project by project, but we are in talks with customers directly about certain projects that we're involved in, the potential cost of those tariffs and what the customer may or may not want to do.

因此，在某些項目中，我們面臨雙方的關稅問題。因此，現在了解每個專案的具體情況還為時過早，但我們正在與客戶直接討論我們參與的某些專案、這些關稅的潛在成本以及客戶可能想做或不想做的事情。

Some of those could be minor. I mean, it could be $10,000 or $15,000 or a couple of hundred thousand. There are other cases where the tariffs might be more material, more into the $5 million to $7 million range depending on the scope and some of the aspects that are being considered there. So we have to work with a customer and see how they want to handle that.

其中一些問題可能並不嚴重。我的意思是，它可能是 10,000 美元或 15,000 美元或幾十萬美元。在其他情況下，關稅可能會更加重要，根據範圍和正在考慮的一些方面，關稅金額可能在 500 萬至 700 萬美元之間。因此我們必須與客戶合作並了解他們希望如何處理這個問題。

Obviously, when the equipment transfers across the border as the tariffs can be paid immediately, and so that gets reflected back on to the client. In some cases, back on within their customers as well, too. So it all depends. But no definitive outcome, I would say yet, at this time. We're just kind of cautiously in dialogue and discussions. And as you said, it changes daily, so who knows? And hopefully, some of these tariffs get removed or get reversed and business goes back to normal. But it's just a little too early to know.

顯然，當設備跨境運輸時，關稅可以立即支付，並反映在客戶身上。在某些情況下，他們也會回饋客戶。所以一切都取決於情況。但我想說，目前還沒有明確的結果。我們只是謹慎地進行對話和討論。正如你所說，它每天都在變化，所以誰知道呢？希望部分關稅能夠取消或撤銷，商業能夠恢復正常。但現在下結論還為時過早。

Understood. And then I appreciate the update on Massillon. Can you maybe give an update on the Wyoming project, kind of where that stands, next guidepost we should kind of look for there? Is there any impact from kind of IRA? And again, just kind of broader federal noise there? An update there would be great.

明白了。我很感謝有關馬西隆的最新消息。您能否介紹一下懷俄明州計畫的最新進展，例如該計畫的進展以及我們應該在那裡尋找的下一個指導方針？IRA 類型有什麼影響嗎？再說一遍，這只是聯邦政府的一種更廣泛的噪音嗎？如果有更新就太好了。

Yes. No, no problem. It's obviously, from the IRA standpoint, which is all part of the conversation going on in D.C., I think the general, at least, feedback that we received is there's some confidence that the IRA credits will move forward. Specifically on Wyoming on that project, we are working with Black Hills. They're looking to get some financing on this initial project out of the Department of Energy and in discussions in and around that.

是的。不，沒問題。顯然，從 IRA 的角度來看，這也是華盛頓正在進行的對話的一部分，我認為我們收到的總體反饋至少是，人們對 IRA 信貸將繼續推進抱有信心。具體來說，在懷俄明州的這個計畫中，我們正在與黑山公司合作。他們正在尋求從能源部獲得該初始項目的一些資金，並就此進行討論。

And obviously, some of the budgetary items need to settle as it relates to that. And we feel like we do have Congressional support as it relates to that particular project. And we have appropriations language sitting in the DOE that would help that particular project to just need to get things a little settled and the administration here to get that pushed forward. But we are working with Black Hills on that and as they're trying to get this project accomplished as well, too. So just working through some of those scenarios still here in the Department of Energy. But it's all positive. It just got to get to the right yes rather than a series of -- well, give us another week here to figure out what's going on. So that -- a little caught up in that.

顯然，一些與此相關的預算項目需要解決。我們覺得就該特定項目而言，我們確實得到了國會的支持。而且，能源部有撥款條款，可以幫助這個特定的計畫稍微安頓下來，然後這裡的政府可以推動它向前發展。但我們正在與 Black Hills 合作，他們也在努力完成這個項目。因此，能源部仍在研究其中的一些情況。但這一切都是正面的。它只需要得到正確的肯定回答，而不是一系列的——好吧，再給我們一周時間來弄清楚發生了什麼。所以——有點陷入其中了。

It's a brand-new administration. Obviously, they're making a lot of noise and doing a lot of things in a very short period of time. But they've only been in place for a couple of months, so they're still trying to work through some of the dynamics and how all that's going to shake out under the loan program and how they're going to proceed. So we're working with them and side by side on that front. So anticipated getting done here, but we're working with them on that front.

這是一個全新的政府。顯然，他們在很短的時間內製造了很多噪音並做了很多事情。但這些措施才實施了幾個月，因此他們仍在努力解決一些問題，以及在貸款計劃下所有這些措施將如何實施，以及他們將如何繼續前進。因此，我們正在與他們並肩合作，共同應對這項挑戰。所以預計在這裡完成，但我們正在與他們在這方面合作。

Right. And then maybe last, so the EPA is reconsidering some of the emissions regulations. Can you just maybe give an update there, what that could mean for the Thermal business, both on existing kind of power generation assets and then some of the coal-to-gas conversion opportunities you have in the pipeline?

正確的。最後，美國環保署正在重新考慮一些排放法規。您能否提供最新消息，這對熱電業務意味著什麼，包括現有的發電資產以及您正在籌備的一些瓦斯轉氣機會？

Yes. No, good question. We do get asked that a lot by a lot of people. It's kind of interesting. I mean, at just high level, it's the general feeling, I guess, with amongst the utilities, it's a little -- if utilities are solid on fossil fuels, in particular, coal aspect and they've got new cases around it, a lot of those are going to stay in place for the foreseeable future regardless of what the EPA aspects are that are out there.

是的。不，好問題。確實有很多人問過我們這個問題。這挺有意思的。我的意思是，從高層次來看，我猜，這是公用事業公司的普遍感覺，如果公用事業公司在化石燃料方面，特別是煤炭方面立場堅定，並且他們有新的案例，那麼在可預見的未來，無論美國環保署的立場如何，很多這些立場都會繼續保留。

I think those clients that are looking at natural gas conversions for the long run are typically looking at overall operational costs of coal versus natural gas. And those conversions tend to have a 20-year capital life cycle. So we don't typically see a big swing in a shift either way based on the regulatory aspect coming out of EPA because it's hard for the utilities to, obviously, readdress their capital needs every four years based on a different policy that might be invoked in D.C. So I don't know that it will have a big impact.

我認為那些長期考慮天然氣轉換的客戶通常會考慮煤炭與天然氣的整體營運成本。這些轉換的資本生命週期通常為 20 年。因此，我們通常不會看到基於環保署監管的重大轉變，因為公用事業公司很難根據華盛頓特區可能援引的不同政策每四年重新調整其資本需求。所以我不知道這是否會產生很大的影響。

It obviously clearly supports the continuation of where coal plants are -- will continue on and don't see any changes of those. It could possibly delay some -- a couple of gas conversions for a few years on that, which would have, I don't know, not a material impact on our business because we were solid out the way, right?

顯然，它支持繼續保留燃煤電廠——並且不會發生任何變化。這可能會推遲幾年的幾次天然氣轉換，但這不會對我們的業務產生實質影響，因為我們已經做好了準備，對吧？

We sell the parts and services into the coal plant. If they convert to natural gas, that's fine, too, as well, and we can provide that conversion aspect on it. So it's solid for us no matter which way they go. So it may change the swing of revenues from a little bit more coal and a little bit less natural gas depending on that swing. But materially, it shouldn't have a big impact on our business out there.

我們向煤電廠出售零件和服務。如果它們轉換為天然氣，那也很好，我們可以提供轉換功能。所以無論他們走哪條路，對我們來說都是穩固的。因此，根據這種變化，它可能會改變收入的變化，煤炭稍微增加，天然氣稍微減少。但從實質上來說，它不應該對我們的業務產生重大影響。

Rob Brown, Lake Street Capital Markets.

羅布布朗 (Rob Brown)，Lake Street Capital Markets。

You had strong bookings in the quarter but just wanted to get a sense of how the pipeline is shaping up for this year. Are you seeing that kind of bookings level continue? How should we think about the, I guess, the bookings run rates into the --

您在本季的預訂量很大，但我們只是想了解今年的預訂情況。您認為這種預訂水準會持續下去嗎？我想，我們應該如何考慮預訂率--

You faded out Rob, right at the end of that but I think you were asking, how do we kind of see the pipeline shaping up this year? In bookings?

羅布，在演講最後你淡出了話題，但我想你是在問，我們如何看待今年的管道建設？在預訂中？

Correct.

正確的。

Yes, no problem. So as I briefly mentioned in the remarks, I mean, overall, we feel pretty solid about our pipeline and have been for quite some time, and the opportunities are actually growing and expanding. We're starting to -- as we see some of the FEED studies now transfer and to -- especially on some of the newer plants when we're looking at biomass opportunities here in the US. We're still seeing a lot of the data centers, especially the larger ones looking for new power sources to fill the need from the data center standpoint.

是的，沒問題。正如我在評論中簡要提到的那樣，總的來說，我們對我們的管道感覺相當穩健，而且這種感覺已經持續了相當長一段時間，而且機會實際上正在增​​長和擴大。當我們在美國尋找生物質機會時，我們看到一些 FEED 研究正在轉移，特別是一些較新的工廠。我們仍然看到許多資料中心，特別是大型資料中心正在尋找新的電源來滿足資料中心的需求。

And so we -- some of the work there, and we do kind of feel like that one or two of those may wind up being booked this year as we go into '26 and '27. And we're working on those. Hopefully some announcements over the next few months. But we see one of the two of those at least seem as if we're going to move towards and progressing to a positive outcome for us and get some bookings in there as well, too, so we're excited about that.

因此，我們在那裡進行了一些工作，我們確實覺得，當我們進入 26 年和 27 年時，其中的一兩項可能會在今年預訂。我們正在努力實現這些目標。希望在接下來的幾個月裡能發布一些公告。但我們看到其中至少有一個看起來好像我們將朝著積極的成果邁進，並且也會獲得一些預訂，所以我們對此感到興奮。

And we continue to ramp up, obviously, on -- across the board. On Thermal aspect, we're seeing opportunities to help expand some of the plants and reposition some of the plants and there are opportunities there around those as well, too. So it's really on both sides of that standpoint. With intent, I think as I mentioned in the remarks, we're doing less and less on larger new build projects in -- the new build projects in Europe and internationally as well. We're going to focus more on parts and services on the international side. Just it reduces our LCs and other aspects. We think that's the right decision to make.

顯然，我們將繼續全面加大力度。在熱能方面，我們看到了幫助擴大一些工廠和重新定位一些工廠的機會，而這些方面也存在著機會。所以，這確實是雙方的觀點。我認為，正如我在評論中提到的那樣，我們有意地越來越少參與大型新建專案——歐洲和國際上的新建專案也是如此。我們將更加關注國際方面的零件和服務。只是它減少了我們的信用證和其他方面。我們認為這是正確的決定。

And we think there's larger volumes here in North America to pursue. So I think we'll see a steady aspect. Our Thermal business is doing quite well. We continue to expand on the parts and services side of Thermal on the international basis. And we see that continuing on for the foreseeable future on that aspect of it. And then like I mentioned, I think we're going to possibly see a couple of biomass and other opportunities emerge here in the United States towards the later part of the year. So we're excited about those as well.

我們認為北美有更大的市場空間。所以我認為我們會看到一個穩定的局面。我們的熱能業務表現相當不錯。我們將繼續在國際範圍內擴大 Thermal 的零件和服務業務。而我們看到，在可預見的未來，這種情況還會持續下去。然後就像我提到的那樣，我認為我們可能會在今年下半年看到美國出現一些生物質和其他機會。所以我們對此也感到興奮。

Okay, great. And then on the West Virginia project, you talked about $10 million of support. What's the next steps there and help the size of that project?

好的，太好了。然後關於西弗吉尼亞項目，您談到了 1000 萬美元的支持。下一步該怎麼做？如何幫助擴大該專案的規模？

Yes. So overall, that's estimated to be around $140 million, $150 million project for us, and we're in discussions with certain outside investors that would take that project over. The $10 million provided by the state, it specifically helps us do all of the teams, the early engineering work on the project. We have secured the land for that location or we're finalizing the agreements, I think, about the for that. But we'll secure the land for that location and complete that aspect in Mesa County, so we're -- and it's close to -- to be nameless but a large data center.

是的。因此，總體而言，該項目對我們來說預計價值約為 1.4 億美元至 1.5 億美元，我們正在與某些外部投資者進行討論，希望他們能夠接手該項目。州政府提供的 1000 萬美元專門幫助我們完成所有團隊以及專案的早期工程工作。我認為，我們已經為該地點獲得了土地，或者我們正在敲定有關該地點的協議。但我們將在梅薩縣確保該地點的土地並完成這一方面，所以我們——而且它即將——成為一個雖然沒有名字但卻是大型的數據中心。

So that's happening. And there's -- the payments on the $10 million, there's milestone aspects that we've -- I think we've hit roughly about $5 million out of the $10 million or close to $5 million out of $10 million, with the others coming with an outside EPC company that we'll probably retain for the project. And so some of the funding will go towards that as well, too. But it helps repay the engineering aspects for the project and get it off the ground to completion so that we can get to FID on that a little bit quicker.

事情就是這樣發生的。還有——1000 萬美元的付款，我們已經完成了里程碑式的付款——我認為我們已經完成了大約 1000 萬美元中的 500 萬美元，或者接近 1000 萬美元中的 500 萬美元，其餘部分來自我們可能會為該項目保留的外部 EPC 公司。因此部分資金也將用於此。但它有助於償還專案的工程費用並使其順利完成，以便我們可以更快地獲得最終投資決定。

And we're in discussions, as I mentioned, with a couple of outside investment firms on that front as well, too. So the funding is nice to have because obviously, it helps cover internal costs and other aspects that go specifically into that project. So that's exciting to give.

正如我所提到的，我們也正在與幾家外部投資公司就此進行討論。因此，獲得資金是件好事，因為顯然，它有助於支付內部成本以及該專案的其他方面。所以這是一件令人興奮的事。

That was the last question. I will now turn the call back over to the management team for any closing remarks.

這是最後一個問題。現在我將把電話轉回給管理團隊，請他們做最後發言。

Thank you for joining us. That concludes our conference call today. A replay will be available for a limited time on the B&W website.

感謝您加入我們。今天的電話會議到此結束。重播將在 B&W 網站上限時提供。

That concludes today's Babcock & Wilcox Fourth Quarter 2024 Earnings Conference Call. Thank you for your participation and enjoy the rest of your day.

今天的 Babcock & Wilcox 2024 年第四季財報電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與並祝您今天過得愉快。