Burford Capital Ltd (BUR) 2023 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Hello, and welcome to the Burford Capital's First Quarter 2023 Results Conference Call. My name is Alex, and I will be coordinating the call today. (Operator Instructions)

您好，歡迎參加 Burford Capital 2023 年第一季度業績電話會議。我叫亞歷克斯，今天我將協調通話。 （操作員說明）

I'll now hand it over to your host, Chris Bogart, CEO, to begin. Please go ahead.

現在我將把它交給主持人、首席執行官克里斯·博加特 (Chris Bogart) 開始。請繼續。

Thanks very much, and hello, everybody. Thank you again for joining us. It feels like we've been talking to you a lot lately. I think this is our third call in 3 months. And welcome to our very first ever set of quarterly results, all part of the journey towards a full U.S. listing with the New York Stock Exchange. I'm joined as usual by Jon Molot, the Chief Investment Officer; and Jordan Licht, the Chief Financial Officer.

非常感謝，大家好。再次感謝您加入我們。感覺我們最近和你聊了很多。我認為這是我們三個月內的第三次通話。歡迎來到我們有史以來的第一份季度業績，這是我們在紐約證券交易所全面上市的旅程的一部分。像往常一樣，首席投資官喬恩·莫洛特 (Jon Molot) 也加入了我的行列。和首席財務官喬丹·利希特(Jordan Licht)。

We are going to adopt the process of having these calls be when we just do the quarterly numbers having these -- given our propensity to talk, we'll try to be brisker for these quarterly calls than we have been for annual calls. And then happy to take whatever questions you all have.

當我們只做季度數據時，我們將採用召開這些電話會議的流程——考慮到我們的談話傾向，我們將嘗試比年度電話會議更加活躍地進行這些季度電話會議。然後很樂意回答大家提出的任何問題。

So I'm going to start on Slide 3. And I have to say the -- this slide and our numbers in general really do speak for themselves. It was an extraordinary quarter, and it reflected the -- exactly what we have been saying about what we're seeing out there in the court system and in the market in which we operate.

所以我將從幻燈片 3 開始。我不得不說，這張幻燈片和我們的總體數字確實不言而喻。這是一個非凡的季度，它反映了我們一直在說的我們在法院系統和我們經營的市場中所看到的情況。

We have seen a return to normalcy in the court system. We've seen our backlog of cases moving through the courts and that's generating an increase in velocity, and that's translating into revenue. We've got numbers on the slide here that are consolidated numbers. As you know, those numbers get a little bit diluted by the fact that they include some consolidated funds.

我們看到法院系統恢復正常。我們已經看到積壓的案件通過法院審理，這提高了審理速度，並轉化為收入。我們這裡幻燈片上的數字是綜合數字。如您所知，這些數字由於包含一些合併基金而被稀釋了一些。

So let me just for the sake of simplicity, frame Burford-only numbers for you. In other words, the portion of these numbers that accrues to Burford's equity shareholders like you and like me. And on a Burford-only basis, our revenue went up 214% to $315 million or so. And significantly, $125 million of that was from our portfolio, just the general operation of our portfolio, the returns to normalcy.

因此，為了簡單起見，讓我為您構建僅限伯福德的號碼。換句話說，這些數字的一部分歸於像你和我這樣的伯福德股權股東。僅 Burford 的收入就增長了 214%，達到 3.15 億美元左右。值得注意的是，其中 1.25 億美元來自我們的投資組合，只是我們投資組合的一般運作，即恢復正常的回報。

That's almost double what it was in the first quarter last year and realized gains as part of that, we're up more than 250%. So setting aside YPF for a moment, just looking at the business ex-YPF, we're really pleased with what we're seeing in terms of portfolio activity, in terms of -- what we're seeing in terms of revenue generation. And then, of course, on March 31, the last day of the quarter, we had the additional bonus of a strongly positive liability decision from the federal court in YPF case, that obviously caused an upward revaluation of that asset to some extent.

這幾乎是去年第一季度的兩倍，並且作為其中的一部分實現了收益，我們的漲幅超過 250%。因此，暫時將 YPF 放在一邊，只看一下 YPF 之外的業務，我們對投資組合活動、創收方面所看到的情況感到非常滿意。當然，在 3 月 31 日，也就是本季度的最後一天，我們還得到了聯邦法院在 YPF 案件中做出的非常積極的責任判決的額外好處，這顯然在某種程度上導致了該資產的上調重估。

And so in addition to that $125 million of Burford-only revenue, we've added about another $190 million from YPF and that -- those 2 numbers together resulted in that extraordinary outcome for the quarter. The portfolio at the same time is continuing to grow. That's -- and we'll talk in a minute about what we're seeing in terms of new business in the market. And Jordan will take you through liquidity and OpEx. But bottom line, we couldn't be happier with how the first quarter -- our first ever reporting quarter turned out, especially since the first quarter in this business can certainly have periods of historical slowness.

因此，除了僅 Burford 的 1.25 億美元收入之外，我們還從 YPF 增加了約 1.9 億美元，這兩個數字共同帶來了本季度的非凡業績。與此同時，該產品組合正在持續增長。那就是——我們稍後將討論我們在市場上的新業務方面所看到的情況。喬丹將帶您了解流動性和運營支出。但最重要的是，我們對第一季度——我們有史以來第一個報告季度的結果感到非常滿意，特別是因為該業務的第一季度肯定會經歷歷史性的緩慢時期。

We're going to jump around with these slides a little bit. And with that, Jordan is going to take you through Slide 4.

我們將稍微瀏覽一下這些幻燈片。接下來，喬丹將帶您瀏覽幻燈片 4。

Thank you, Chris. Good morning, good afternoon to everyone on the call. A little bit of housekeeping since this is our first time sharing quarterly results. So I want to make sure everyone understands the comparative periods.

謝謝你，克里斯。各位來電的人早上好，下午好。由於這是我們第一次分享季度業績，因此需要進行一些整理工作。所以我想確保每個人都了解比較時期。

So on the income statement side, we're going to be comparing first quarter of 2023 to the first quarter of 2022. However, with respect to the balance sheet information, we are comparing the closing balance sheet at March 31, 2023 to the year-end balance sheet of 2022. This page highlights -- I'm on Slide 4. This page highlights results for Burford-only, and consolidated information can be found in the reconciliations in the appendix of the deck.

因此，在損益表方面，我們將比較 2023 年第一季度和 2022 年第一季度。然而，就資產負債表信息而言，我們將 2023 年 3 月 31 日的期末資產負債表與全年進行比較- 2022 年末資產負債表。本頁重點介紹 -- 我在幻燈片 4 上。本頁重點介紹僅 Burford 的結果，綜合信息可以在平台附錄的對賬中找到。

And also note that all of the information for each quarter is presented under the revised fair value approach, which we've previously discussed. As Chris mentioned, this was a good first quarter, driven by significant progress across the portfolio and further bolstered by the YPF case and the related assets.

另請注意，每個季度的所有信息都是根據我們之前討論過的修訂後的公允價值法提供的。正如 Chris 提到的，在投資組合取得重大進展以及 YPF 案件和相關資產的進一步推動下，第一季度表現良好。

Our business is episodic, but we hope to impress upon you today the momentum we're seeing in addition to the progress from YPF. From a top line perspective, total revenues were up more than 200% driven by higher capital provision income as well as improved asset management income. Realized gains were up more than 250%, but when you exclude YPF, unrealized gains were up 55%.

我們的業務是間歇性的，但我們希望今天給您留下深刻印象，除了 YPF 取得的進展之外，我們所看到的勢頭。從營收來看，由於資本撥備收入增加以及資產管理收入改善，總收入增長超過200%。已實現收益增長了 250% 以上，但如果排除 YPF，未實現收益增長了 55%。

Burford-only net income was nearly $260 million, $1.17 per share. That's up more than $200 million or $0.92 per share compared to the first quarter of last year. And right now, we sit at total equity just shy of $2 billion and a book value of $9.10. That's a quick review of the numbers. We'll go deeper on some other pages, and I'll flip it back to Chris for Slide 5.

僅伯福德的淨利潤就接近 2.6 億美元，每股收益 1.17 美元。與去年第一季度相比，這一數字增加了 2 億多美元，即每股 0.92 美元。目前，我們的總股本接近 20 億美元，賬面價值為 9.10 美元。這是對數字的快速回顧。我們將更深入地討論其他一些頁面，我將把幻燈片 5 翻給 Chris。

Thanks, Jordan. So Slide 5 talks about new business. And again, just to emphasize, the first quarter for us is often very, very sleepy in terms of new business. There is no good reason, frankly, for this business to be seasonal. But sometimes, I joke in the fourth quarter, it feels sometimes like I'm running a retailer.

謝謝，喬丹。所以幻燈片 5 談論的是新業務。再次強調，就新業務而言，我們的第一季度通常非常非常疲軟。坦率地說，這項業務沒有季節性的理由。但有時，我在第四季度開玩笑說，有時感覺就像我在經營一家零售商。

The simple fact of the matter is that lawyers are driven by deadlines. Many, many, many law firms have their fiscal year ending at the end of December. And so since we've been in this business, December has historically been remarkably busy for us. And then having done that, which often includes closing a number of deals on the 31st of December itself, lawyers then tend to sort of go to sleep for a while.

事實很簡單，律師總是受最後期限的驅使。許多、許多、許多律師事務所的財政年度於 12 月底結束。因此，自從我們從事這項業務以來，十二月對我們來說歷來都是非常忙碌的。完成這些工作後（通常包括在 12 月 31 日完成多項交易），律師們往往會睡一會兒。

So I'm quite pleased with these trajectories that we see here. So in terms of new commitments, overall, on a group-wide basis, we almost doubled new commitments first quarter over first quarter. Even more significantly, Burford-only new commitments went up significantly more than that by about 130%. And that's a function of the fact that the balance sheet is now taking 75% of the high octane deals and BOF-C is taking -- the BOF-C and sovereign wealth fund is taking 25%, whereas previously the balance sheet was at lower numbers, sometimes 42%, sometimes 50%.

所以我對我們在這裡看到的這些軌跡非常滿意。因此，就新承諾而言，總體而言，在整個集團範圍內，我們第一季度的新承諾幾乎是第一季度的兩倍。更重要的是，僅 Burford 的新承諾量大幅增加了約 130%。這是因為資產負債表現在佔據了高辛烷值交易的 75%，而 BOF-C 正在佔據——BOF-C 和主權財富基金佔據了 25%，而此前資產負債表處於較低水平。數字，有時是 42%，有時是 50%。

So we're pleased both with the overall trajectory and also with the relative share of that new business that the balance sheet was taking, which ultimately accrues to equity shareholders. I think the fundamental factor that we're seeing in play here is some economic stress and anxiety in the market. We've talked about this before, but just to recap, businesses tend to engage in difficult conduct when they are under economic stress.

因此，我們對整體軌跡以及資產負債表所佔新業務的相對份額感到滿意，這些新業務最終將歸股東所有。我認為我們在這裡看到的根本因素是市場上的一些經濟壓力和焦慮。我們之前已經討論過這一點，但回顧一下，企業在面臨經濟壓力時往往會做出困難的行為。

That economic stress is obviously caused by things like high-interest rates and uncertain economic environments. And that questionable conduct turns into both litigation and insolvency, both of which we benefit from. So not that we sit here wishing for a recession or a great economic downturn for all sorts of other obvious reasons, but there's certainly no question that our business certainly does well in these kinds of times.

這種經濟壓力顯然是由高利率和不確定的經濟環境等因素造成的。這種可疑的行為會導致訴訟和破產，而我們都從中受益。因此，並不是說我們坐在這裡出於各種其他明顯的原因而希望經濟衰退或經濟嚴重下滑，但毫無疑問，我們的業務在這種時期肯定表現良好。

So that's where we are on the new business front. And Jon is going to talk a little bit more moving to Slide 6 about the portfolio activity itself.

這就是我們在新業務方面的處境。 Jon 將在幻燈片 6 中進一步討論投資組合活動本身。

Sure. Thanks, Chris, and thanks to you all for joining. So on Slide 6, you see sort of bearing out what I've been saying on the last few calls we've had, which is that the portfolio is quite active that we had a sleepy period during COVID after having grown the book significantly. And we were seeing things move through and (inaudible) numbers for about out. So you're seeing growth on -- in all metrics.

當然。謝謝克里斯，也感謝大家的加入。因此，在幻燈片 6 上，您會看到有點證實了我在最近幾次電話會議中所說的內容，即投資組合非常活躍，在新冠疫情期間，我們在賬簿大幅增長後經歷了一段休眠期。我們看到事情正在發生變化，並且（聽不清）數字即將結束。所以你會看到所有指標都在增長。

So in addition to, as Chris mentioned, the YPF success at the end of the first quarter, just putting that aside for a moment, there's a growth in unrealized gains in the rest of the portfolio as well and in realized gains. So unrealized gains were up significantly. Realized gains were triple what they were in the first quarter of '22. There is an impact, you'll recall from how we walked you through the approach under the SEC's valuation of litigation assets where interest rates, discount rates do factor in.

因此，正如克里斯提到的，除了第一季度末 YPF 的成功之外，暫時將其放在一邊，投資組合其餘部分的未實現收益和已實現收益也有所增長。因此，未實現收益大幅上升。實現的收益是 22 年第一季度的三倍。您會記得我們如何引導您了解美國證券交易委員會對訴訟資產的評估方法，其中利率、貼現率確實會產生影響。

And so there was a decline in interest rates or in the discount rate by 52 basis points in the first quarter of '22, a more modest decline of 28 basis points in the first quarter of '23, those would have had an upward effect on fair value, though it would have been a more muted effect in the first quarter of this year because the move in interest rates was less.

因此，22 年第一季度利率或貼現率下降了 52 個基點，23 年第一季度更溫和地下降了 28 個基點，這將對公允價值，儘管今年第一季度的影響會更加溫和，因為利率變動較小。

The other thing I wanted to mention is on the asset management income side, you really start to see the benefits of the BOF-C relationship. Management fees and performance fees from other funds haven't really moved much in part due to the European waterfall structure, which postpones the earnings performance fees. But with BOF-C, as the portfolio performs and BOF-C makes money, so just the balance sheet, and you see that bear out with a significant increase inter asset management income from the BOF-C relationship.

我想提的另一件事是在資產管理收入方面，你真的開始看到BOF-C關係的好處。其他基金的管理費和績效費並沒有真正發生太大變化，部分原因是歐洲瀑布結構推遲了收益績效費。但對於 BOF-C，隨著投資組合的表現和 BOF-C 的盈利，資產負債表也同樣如此，您會發現 BOF-C 關係帶來的資產管理間收入顯著增加。

And with that, I will turn it back over to Jordan Licht on Slide 7.

接下來，我會將幻燈片 7 上的內容轉回給 Jordan Licht。

Thanks, Jon. So on Slide 7, I'm going to walk through our operating expenses for the year. An important point that we've talked about before but I want to reemphasize is that we pay people on cash profits. However, we do take accounting charges when capital provision asset values increase as they did this period.

謝謝，喬恩。在幻燈片 7 上，我將概述我們今年的運營支出。我們之前討論過但我想再次強調的重要一點是我們向人們支付現金利潤。然而，當資本撥備資產價值像本期那樣增加時，我們確實會收取會計費用。

But none of those charges are paid in cash until we have the cash profit in hand. So you're seeing some -- a lot of movement in the operating expense that is just an accrual and doesn't necessarily reflect an outlay. As a result, looking at the income statement, then we thought it would be helpful to put some of the line items in context and discuss the reasons for differences quarter versus quarter.

但在我們拿到現金利潤之前，這些費用都不會以現金支付。所以你會看到一些運營費用的大量變動，這些變動只是應計費用，並不一定反映支出。因此，在查看損益表時，我們認為將一些項目放在上下文中並討論季度與季度之間差異的原因會有所幫助。

So looking at the slide, first, our deferred compensation plan expense, which is compensation that employees had previously elected to defer and invest in Burford's stock. We routinely buy shares in the market to offset employee dilution, although it has varying degrees of P&L impact based on the underlying programs.

因此，看這張幻燈片，首先是我們的遞延薪酬計劃費用，這是員工之前選擇推遲並投資於伯福德股票的薪酬。我們通常會在市場上購買股票以抵消員工股權稀釋，儘管根據基礎計劃它對損益有不同程度的影響。

Second is the asset recovery business, which includes 2 remaining assets in which the original owners had a contingent interest tied to our purchase of the business. If you recall, back in 2021, we had an outsized expense on this line item related to the conclusion of the [Akhmedov] case and only 2 assets still remain in that deal.

其次是資產回收業務，其中包括 2 項剩餘資產，其中原所有者擁有與我們購買業務相關的或有權益。如果您還記得，早在 2021 年，我們在與 [Akhmedov] 案件的結案相關的這一行項目上花費了大量費用，並且該交易中只剩下 2 項資產。

But again, this line only goes up when something positive has happened in the underlying asset that we own, and we only pay the cash when we receive the proceeds. The third is our carry expense, which shows up in the long-term incentive compensation line. This is driven by fair value movements in our assets. But again, it's not paid to employees until we actually see the cash realizations.

但同樣，只有當我們擁有的基礎資產發生積極的事情時，這條線才會上升，而且我們只有在收到收益時才支付現金。第三是我們的持有費用，它體現在長期激勵薪酬中。這是由我們資產的公允價值變動驅動的。但同樣，在我們真正看到現金變現之前，我們不會向員工支付這筆費用。

And while we're seeing a broad-based pickup in the portfolio, the majority of this change was driven in the markup to the YPF-related assets and it's formulaic. I also want to point out then just understanding the annual incentive compensation line, which represents traditional discretionary corporate bonuses, these are determined in the fourth quarter based on a number of qualitative and quantitative targets for our employees.

雖然我們看到投資組合廣泛回升，但這種變化大部分是由 YPF 相關資產的加價推動的，而且是公式化的。我還想指出的是，只要理解年度激勵薪酬線，它代表傳統的可自由支配的企業獎金，這些獎金是在第四季度根據我們員工的一些定性和定量目標確定的。

Thus, the quarterly expense is driven by an accrual percentage based on last year, and we'll finalize that expense at year-end. So the last -- and sorry, the last piece that I did want to remind folks of is that the construct of some of our capital provision assets end up then with litigation expense that we're not able to capitalize into the asset and rather it runs into the P&L.

因此，季度費用是由基於去年的應計百分比驅動的，我們將在年底最終確定該費用。所以最後——抱歉，我想提醒大家的最後一點是，我們的一些資本準備資產的構建最終會產生訴訟費用，而我們無法將這些費用資本化為資產，而是它進入損益表。

And that's going to vary over time. So overall, while the headline total of operating expenses might appear to be significantly higher, adjusting for some of the less routine items and particularly strong unrealized gains, this quarter is in line with how we anticipated it and it maps to the Q1 2022 expense total.

這會隨著時間的推移而變化。因此，總體而言，儘管對一些不太常規的項目和特別強勁的未實現收益進行調整後，總體運營支出總額可能會明顯更高，但本季度符合我們的預期，並且與 2022 年第一季度的支出總額相對應。

I'm going to flip now to Slide 8. We already discussed our liquidity position at the end of the first quarter when we did our most recent call just a couple of weeks ago. But on the top end -- the top left-hand side of the slide, we show the $183 million of cash and marketable securities, which consists of $53 million of cash and cash equivalents and $130 million of securities.

我現在要翻到幻燈片 8。幾週前我們進行最近一次電話會議時，我們已經討論了第一季度末的流動性狀況。但在最上端——幻燈片的左上角，我們顯示了 1.83 億美元的現金和有價證券，其中包括 5300 萬美元的現金和現金等價物以及 1.3 億美元的證券。

In addition, we mentioned $99 million of receivables due from case conclusions. Our group-wide realizations were $147 million compared to $34 million in the same period last year. And on a Burford-only basis, realizations more than tripled from $20 million to $62 million.

此外，我們在案例結論中提到了 9900 萬美元的應收賬款。我們整個集團的實現額為 1.47 億美元，而去年同期為 3,400 萬美元。僅伯福德一家的實現額就增加了兩倍多，從 2000 萬美元增至 6200 萬美元。

Realizations in Q1 2023 stemmed predominantly from our 2019 vintage. And finally, down below on the covenant level, we're well within the major covenants for both our U.K. and 144(a) bond issuances and continue to maintain significant debt capacity. As always, we'll continue to balance our liquidity, anticipated realizations and debt issuance with demand for our capital to fund new business.

2023 年第一季度的實現主要源於我們 2019 年的年份。最後，在低於契約水平的情況下，我們完全符合英國和 144(a) 債券發行的主要契約，並繼續保持巨大的債務能力。一如既往，我們將繼續平衡我們的流動性、預期實現和債務發行與為新業務提供資金的資本需求。

And with that, I will turn it to Chris for Slide 9.

接下來，我將把幻燈片 9 交給 Chris。

Thanks. And this is a slide that you've seen before, and I'm not going to go through it again since I did that just a few weeks ago. But it's a nice way to close out the presentation. And just to sort of remind people that the business, from our perspective, is really firing on all cylinders.

謝謝。這是一張您以前看過的幻燈片，自從幾週前我這樣做以來，我不會再次瀏覽它。但這是結束演示的好方法。只是為了提醒人們，從我們的角度來看，這項業務確實在全速運轉。

The core portfolio now over $6.5 billion is continuing to increase in velocity and throw off cash at desirable returns. The origination platform is doing its job. The asset management business, as we've discussed, is growing in terms of its fee load, and we've obviously had a successful period with YPF.

核心投資組合現已超過 65 億美元，其速度繼續加快，並以理想的回報投入現金。起源平台正在履行其職責。正如我們所討論的，資產管理業務的費用負擔正在增長，而且我們顯然在 YPF 方面度過了一段成功的時期。

So with that, we are delighted to take your questions. And operator, we're ready for you.

因此，我們很高興回答您的問題。接線員，我們已為您做好準備。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question for today comes from James Hamilton of Numis.

（操作員說明）我們今天的第一個問題來自 Numis 的 James Hamilton。

You mentioned sort of portfolio activity, and obviously, Q1 was very busy. On Slide 3, you sort of talked about 40 milestone events that occurred up to the 9th of June. I was just wondering if you could split that out, how many of those were actually in Q1 and how many dropped into Q2 sort of following on from that, in the sort of pipeline and milestone events, how many more do you have lined up for 2023?

您提到了某種投資組合活動，顯然，第一季度非常繁忙。在幻燈片 3 上，您談到了截至 6 月 9 日發生的 40 個里程碑事件。我只是想知道您是否可以將其分開，其中有多少實際上是在第一季度，有多少是在接下來的第二季度中，在管道和里程碑事件中，您還準備了多少2023 年？

And finally, on this topic, could you tell us how much-deployed capital has been allocated to cases that have milestone events this year to give us some sort of ability to scale what may or may not flow through the P&L? And I've got a fourth of apologies, I've got a fourth. Just curious if you use the -- your previous valuation methodology, what would the adjustment in the carrying value of the YPF case have been?

最後，關於這個話題，您能否告訴我們，今年為具有里程碑事件的案例分配了多少資本，以使我們能夠衡量可能或可能不流經損益表的內容？我有四分之一的道歉，我有第四次。只是好奇，如果您使用之前的估值方法，YPF 案例賬面價值的調整是多少？

A number of questions there. I'll try and take some of them. And thank you. So first, we're not going to -- we're not going to comment on the previous methodology. We've adopted the new approach, and I think it would be inappropriate for us to continue to kind of use numbers from the old methodology.

有很多問題。我會嘗試拿走其中一些。謝謝你。所以首先，我們不會——我們不會對以前的方法發表評論。我們已經採用了新方法，我認為繼續使用舊方法中的數字是不合適的。

So I'll leave that at that. With respect to the milestone question, in Q1, we had approximately 25 milestone factors that occurred. And then I think you also asked about what is our deployed cost relative to projected milestone factors. I can see why that information would be nice to have.

所以我就這樣吧。關於里程碑問題，在第一季度，我們發生了大約 25 個里程碑因素。然後我認為您還詢問了相對於預計的里程碑因素而言我們的部署成本是多少。我明白為什麼擁有這些信息會很高興。

But I don't think we're going to start tying specific milestones and giving out expectations of milestone events on a vintage basis. We do give out vintage information. We have the large vintage table that we outlined in the annual. And for the quarterly, we do outline the incremental deployed costs and realizations by vintage. But I don't think we're going to start tracking or projecting out future milestone of them to a vintage level.

但我不認為我們會開始將具體的里程碑聯繫起來，並在年份的基礎上給出對里程碑事件的期望。我們確實提供復古信息。我們有年鑑中概述的大型複古桌子。對於季度，我們確實按年份概述了增量部署成本和實現。但我認為我們不會開始跟踪或預測它們未來的里程碑到老式水平。

I do think it's worth pointing to that table because I think that table is new, if I'm not mistaken. So on Page 48 of the 6-K, there is a table that shows vintage by vintage, what the deployed costs and the realized proceeds were with respect to our realized gains. And so James, you may find that to be of some interest.

我確實認為值得指出該表，因為如果我沒有記錯的話，我認為該表是新的。因此，在 6-K 的第 48 頁上，有一個表格按年份顯示了各個年份、部署成本和已實現收益相對於我們已實現收益的情況。詹姆斯，你可能會發現這很有趣。

And the pipeline of milestone events for the rest of '23, how many do you have in -- coming up?

23 年剩餘時間裡的里程碑事件有多少，即將到來？

So without wanting to be held to this number, since we haven't -- I don't think that we've included it in the disclosures, I think we think the number is north of 50, possibly even larger than that. I should say something though about the concept of milestones.

因此，我們不想拘泥於這個數字，因為我們沒有——我認為我們沒有將其納入披露中，我認為我們認為這個數字超過 50，甚至可能比這個數字還要大。我應該談談里程碑的概念。

So we provided this data to try -- when we were trying to sit back and think about how to convey to people, the short-term information about what we saw happening in the courts and the return of velocity.

因此，當我們試圖坐下來思考如何向人們傳達有關我們在法庭上看到的情況以及速度恢復的短期信息時，我們提供了這些數據來嘗試。

We hit upon this idea of using milestone factors just to show people the sheer level of difference that we were feeling in the '23 year as opposed to the '21 and '22 years. Jordan has only been here since the beginning of September last year. And he said -- I've heard him say to people sometimes when he first got here, there was sort of one e-mail every once in a while about something happening in a case.

我們偶然想到了使用里程碑因素的想法，只是為了向人們展示我們在 23 年與 21 和 22 年所感受到的巨大差異。喬丹從去年九月初才來到這裡。他說——我聽他有時對人們說，當他第一次來到這裡時，每隔一段時間就會收到一封關於案件中發生的事情的電子郵件。

And now there's like e-mails all the time. Like it was -- so it's that sort of feeling in the business that we were trying to convey in some sort of numerical way. And so we came upon the -- because before I've been using just the aggregate court statistics, backlog, statistics and so on. The problem with those is that they don't really capture accurately necessarily what's going on with complex cases. So we came up with this concept of milestone factors just to try to convey to you the velocity, but I want to be clear that I don't think it's a financial metric.

現在總是有電子郵件。就像過去一樣，我們試圖以某種數字方式傳達這種業務感覺。所以我們發現了——因為之前我只使用法庭匯總統計數據、積壓案件、統計數據等等。這些的問題在於它們並不能真正準確地捕捉複雜案例中發生的情況。因此，我們提出了里程碑因素的概念，只是為了向您傳達速度，但我想澄清的是，我不認為這是一個財務指標。

So I don't think that people should be all of a sudden trying to tie these milestone factors to other numbers in the business, and I don't intend to continue to provide them. We just did them as a way and the reason that we didn't disclose this 50 or 60 or whatever the number is for the rest of the year is it's not something that we track. It's not a KPI that I look at on a weekly basis.

因此，我認為人們不應該突然嘗試將這些里程碑因素與業務中的其他數字聯繫起來，而且我也不打算繼續提供它們。我們只是作為一種方式這樣做，我們沒有透露這 50 或 60 或今年剩餘時間的任何數字的原因是它不是我們跟踪的東西。這不是我每週查看的 KPI。

We just used it as a proxy because I think it was difficult for us to get all of you as investors to understand the dynamics of what was going on in the court system without having you actually be sitting inside the business. So that's where these came from, but don't think of them as something that you take to the analytical grail now.

我們只是用它作為代理，因為我認為我們很難讓你們所有人作為投資者了解法院系統中正在發生的事情，而不讓你們真正坐在企業內部。這就是這些的來源，但不要將它們視為您現在可以進行分析的東西。

(Operator Instructions) Our next question comes from Julian Roberts of Jefferies.

（操作員說明）我們的下一個問題來自 Jefferies 的 Julian Roberts。

James asked a few of mine. And I might just be putting one of his another way, so apologies if you answered this just now. But can you split the gain on the YPF assets between the time value of money effect and litigation risk reduction?

詹姆斯問了我一些問題。我可能只是用另一種方​​式表達他的觀點，所以如果你剛才回答這個問題，我深表歉意。但你能將 YPF 資產的收益分配到貨幣時間價值效應和訴訟風險降低之間嗎？

And then I've got another couple which are presumably what's left in the due from settlement line is very largely what was there at the start of the year. And do we still expect quite a lot of that to be collected in the balance of 2023?

然後我還有另一對夫婦，大概是結算線中剩下的大部分是年初的。我們是否仍期望在 2023 年餘下的時間裡收集到相當多的資金？

And is it -- can you give us -- maybe it's in the -- in what you've released already. Can you tell us or give us an idea of how much of what has been realized so far this year has been a settlement versus results of adjudication? And that's all I had.

你能告訴我們嗎？也許它就在你已經發布的內容中。您能否告訴我們或讓我們了解今年到目前為止已實現的工作中有多少是和解與裁決結果？這就是我所擁有的一切。

Sure. Let me take a whack at them and then Jon and Jordan can fill in if I go astray. So first of all, the due from settlement question. Let me comment on this for just a second because it's slightly unusual for us. So historically, the way this business has worked is that you get to the end of a case. And in most cases, you immediately get paid.

當然。讓我打擊他們，如果我誤入歧途，喬恩和喬丹可以填補。首先是結算問題。讓我對此發表一下評論，因為這對我們來說有點不尋常。從歷史上看，這項業務的運作方式就是完成一個案件。在大多數情況下，您會立即獲得報酬。

Settlements almost always pay right at the time you conclude the settlement. And if you have won a case against a -- and the appeals are over against the creditworthy dependent, they're going to pay the judgment because otherwise, you can go and start pretty easily taking their assets.

和解幾乎總是在您完成和解時立即付款。如果你贏得了針對某個人的官司，並且對信譽良好的家屬的上訴結束了，他們將支付判決，因為否則，你可以很容易地開始拿走他們的資產。

So that represents the considerable majority of our business. There are obviously exceptions to that, as you've seen in the past. Sometimes those exceptions are when our client has agreed to a structured settlement with payments being made over time.

因此，這代表了我們業務的絕大部分。正如您過去所看到的，顯然也有例外。有時，這些例外情況是我們的客戶同意結構性和解並隨時間付款。

And we've had those occur from time to time, but those have always been successful for us because the reality is your leverage is greatest when you're entering into the settlement. And so you're not going to take the structured settlements unless you're confident that it's going to be paid. And then we've had the occasional settlement where noncash assets have come into the mix, and we've had to turn them into cash as was the case in, for example, some years ago, a big case that we won in Arizona over some real estate.

我們時常會遇到這種情況，但這些對我們來說總是成功的，因為現實是，當您達成和解時，您的槓桿作用是最大的。因此，除非您確信會得到支付，否則您不會接受結構性和解。然後，我們偶爾會遇到非現金資產混合在一起的和解，我們不得不將它們變成現金，例如幾年前，我們在亞利桑那州贏得的一個大案中的情況一些房地產。

So what you generally see when there's a receivable is those receivables turn over pretty quickly because they're usually just timing based. Something settles towards the end of a period, and it doesn't get paid until into the next period. And we've got a pretty long history of most of those receivables being collected rapidly and all of the receivables, except one tiny one when the guy died being collected ultimately.

因此，當有應收賬款時，您通常會看到這些應收賬款周轉得很快，因為它們通常只是基於時間。在一個時期結束時，有些事情會解決，直到下一個時期才會得到支付。我們有相當長的歷史，大部分應收賬款都被迅速收回，所有應收賬款（除了那人去世時最終收回的一小筆賬款除外）。

I don't have any anxiety about collectibility of the current receivables, but there is one item in the due for settlement that is basically being held up for payment because of some collateral litigation that doesn't really relate to our piece of the litigation. And we are basically in the hands of the court about the speed of the court resolving the other collateral matter.

我對當前應收賬款的可收回性沒有任何擔憂，但由於一些與我們的訴訟並不真正相關的附帶訴訟，應付結算中的一項基本上被擱置付款。法院解決其他附帶事項的速度基本上由法院決定。

So I -- we're at the point in that where I certainly have a considerable degree of optimism that, that will get paid this year, but not a certainty because we're in the hands of the court process just for that one chunky piece of that receivable, which is -- which represents about $37 million of the receivable balance.

所以我——我們現在所處的階段，我當然非常樂觀，認為今年會得到報酬，但不確定，因為我們正處於法庭程序之中，只是為了那個矮胖的人。該應收款的一部分，即應收款餘額中約 3,700 萬美元。

The rest of it just rolls forward on a consolidated basis. So that's due from settlement. Your question about can we split time value of money and litigation risk reduction. Can we, yes, will we know? For the reason that Jordan gave earlier, we just don't think that there's a level of detail that is probably appropriate for the valuation process.

其餘部分只是在合併的基礎上滾動。這是結算時應得的。您的問題是我們是否可以分割資金的時間價值和降低訴訟風險。我們可以，是的，我們會知道嗎？由於喬丹早些時候給出的原因，我們只是認為沒有適合估值過程的詳細程度。

And what was realized, I believe, and you can check this -- looking at that table on Page 48 that I just inverted to, of the realized proceeds a fair chunk of it was from the 2019 vintage, $46 million of realizations. And that was how do I best describe it. I think I'd probably describe it as a hybrid of adjudication and resolution.

我相信，你可以檢查一下所實現的收益 - 看看我剛剛倒轉的第 48 頁上的表格，已實現的收益中很大一部分來自 2019 年的收益，實現了 4600 萬美元。這就是我最好的描述方式。我想我可能會將其描述為裁決和解決的混合體。

So it was not a pretrial settlement in the sense of some traditional litigation goes along, gets close to trial, and that is the impetus for the parties to settle. There was an element of adjudication here and that led to the resolution.

因此，這並不是傳統意義上的審前和解，一些傳統訴訟會持續進行，接近審判，這才是雙方和解的動力。這裡有一個裁決的因素，並導致了決議。

And then, Chris, just a clarification. The $37 million was actually group-wide, Burford-only on the due from settlement was $23 million with respect to the example that you described. And yes, we feel good about collecting the rest.

然後，克里斯，我需要澄清一下。 3700 萬美元實際上是整個集團範圍內的，僅 Burford 的和解到期款項是 2300 萬美元，就您所描述的例子而言。是的，我們對收集其餘的感到滿意。

We feel good about collecting that, too. We're just not in control of the timing of it.

我們也很樂意收集它。我們只是無法控制它的時間。

Yes. Understood. Understood. And just one minor follow-on. So the one where you said that it's partly sort of a hybrid of settlements in adjudication. Could it possibly be that -- maybe there's a family of cases and there's been a bit of price discovery because one of them has been adjudicated and other things are kind of following (inaudible) that the kind of thing that might have happened or...

是的。明白了。明白了。還有一個較小的後續。所以你說這在一定程度上是裁決中和解的混合體。有沒有可能——也許有一系列案件，並且有一些價格發現，因為其中一個案件已經判決，而其他事情是在（聽不清）可能發生的事情之後發生的，或者…… 。

No. It's more the -- Jon, did you want to chime in there?

不，更多的是——喬恩，你想插話嗎？

Yes. I was just going to say the line between settlement and adjudication can be a scenario where, as Chris said, settlements in the most conventional U.S. commercial litigation sets are what precedes the trial in order to avoid the trial, the party strike a settlement for an amount that eliminates the risk.

是的。我只是想說，和解與裁決之間的界限可能是這樣一種情況，正如克里斯所說，最傳統的美國商業訴訟中的和解是在審判之前進行的，為了避免審判，當事人達成和解以獲得消除風險的金額。

But there could be pieces of litigation and you might win some. The defendant can read the writing on the wall and know it's going to have to pay up. It still has a chance for some sort of appeal or collateral attack, and you could, therefore, have a resolution through what's called the settlement, but there's already a judgment potentially saying you owe that amount.

但可能會有一些訴訟，你可能會贏得一些訴訟。被告可以讀到不祥之兆並知道必須付款。它仍然有機會進行某種上訴或附帶攻擊，因此，您可以通過所謂的和解達成解決方案，但已經有一項判決可能表明您欠該金額。

And so that's why it's hard to draw the distinction between what ends if you win a trial, and there's an appeal pending and there's a settlement at a very slight discount based on probably risk and timing. Do you call that a settlement, I guess, technically, you do, but there has been an adjudication as well?

因此，這就是為什麼很難區分贏得審判、上訴未決以及根據可能的風險和時間安排以非常小的折扣達成和解的結果。我想，從技術上來說，你稱之為和解，但也有一個裁決？

So a webcast question, and then we'll go to the next question on the phone. The webcast question is when do we anticipate a full New York Stock Exchange listing?

這是一個網絡廣播問題，然後我們將通過電話討論下一個問題。網絡直播的問題是我們預計什麼時候在紐約證券交易所全面上市？

So we have today, We're what's called a form private issuer because more than 50% of our shares are held by non-U.S. investors.

所以我們今天是所謂的私人發行人，因為我們 50% 以上的股份由非美國投資者持有。

We test that 50% number every June 30. So we'll test it for the next time in 17 days. If the number of U.S. shareholders has increased to above 50%, that will represent the final leg of the process to become a sort of a full U.S. 10-K filer. Although nothing will actually change on New York Stock Exchange. This is an SEC dynamic, not a New York Stock Exchange dynamic.

我們會在每年 6 月 30 日測試這 50% 的數字。因此我們將在 17 天后進行下一次測試。如果美國股東的數量增加到 50% 以上，這將代表成為正式的美國 10-K 申報人流程的最後一步。儘管紐約證券交易所實際上不會發生任何變化。這是美國證券交易委員會的動態，而不是紐約證券交易所的動態。

So nothing would change on the New York Stock Exchange, but it would cause us to begin to file 10-Ks instead of these 20-Fs. Frankly, you won't notice very much difference when that happens, especially now that we have gone voluntarily to quarterly reporting because the -- previously, the principal difference between those 2 regimes would have been that foreign private issuers are not required to do quarterly reporting.

因此，紐約證券交易所不會發生任何變化，但這會導致我們開始提交 10-K，而不是 20-F。坦率地說，當這種情況發生時，你不會注意到太大的差異，特別是現在我們已經自願進行季度報告，因為以前，這兩種制度之間的主要區別是外國私人發行人不需要進行季度報告報告。

But because we've now opted in the quarterly reporting anyway, you're not going to notice a big difference when that happens. We don't know if it will happen this year or not. We won't know until we do the testing for it. I think we were in the 40s in terms of U.S. holders the last time we looked. So we're certainly getting close if we don't cross the line today. And then I think we have something more on the phone operator.

但因為我們現在無論如何都選擇了季度報告，所以當這種情況發生時，您不會注意到很大的差異。我們不知道今年是否會發生。在我們對其進行測試之前我們不會知道。我認為上次我們查看時，就美國持有者而言，我們處於 40 年代。因此，如果我們今天不跨越界限，我們肯定會接近目標。然後我認為我們對電話運營商還有更多了解。

Our next question comes from Matthew Howlett of B. Riley Securities.

我們的下一個問題來自 B. Riley Securities 的 Matthew Howlett。

Can you hear me now?

你能聽到我嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Yes. Apologies. The question is regarding return on equity. And your return on equity, tangible equity, I look at somewhere in the high teens normalizing for YPF and some expenses. When you look at that, I mean, historically, pre-COVID, you've been in that range, how do you look at the return profile, the return on tangible book value this quarter versus what you think is normalized? What do you think is fully deployed? Just in that context, you talked a lot about IRRs and things of that nature, I want to kind of move it towards return on equity.

是的。道歉。問題是關於股本回報率。至於你的股本回報率、有形股本，我認為 YPF 和一些費用的正常化程度在十幾歲左右。當你看到這一點時，我的意思是，從歷史上看，在新冠疫情之前，你一直在這個範圍內，你如何看待回報率、本季度有形賬面價值回報率與你認為正常化的回報率？您認為什麼是全面部署？正是在這種背景下，您談論了很多關於內部收益率和類似性質的事情，我想將其轉向股本回報率。

So look, I think it is difficult to look quarter-by-quarter at [ROTCE.] But we definitely -- we had stated, I think, in the Investor Day that we target a 20-plus return on equity. I think we continue to see that. It will be episodic or a little bit bumpy, but I think you need to look at that on an annualized -- kind of a rolling average basis as opposed to just one spot in time. I think we said that back then, we still believe it.

因此，我認為逐季度查看 [ROTCE] 是很困難的。但我認為，我們確實在投資者日表示，我們的目標是 20 以上的股本回報率。我認為我們會繼續看到這一點。這將是偶發的或有點坎坷，但我認為你需要以年化的方式來看待這一點——一種滾動平均的基礎，而不是僅僅一個時間點。我想我們當時就這麼說過，現在仍然相信。

Yes, exactly. We believe that, that's the earnings power of the business judged on a multiyear rolling basis -- go ahead.

對，就是這樣。我們相信，這就是根據多年滾動基礎判斷的企業盈利能力——繼續吧。

And I will say the underwriters have internalized that. When we are looking at deals and thinking about whether to do them, we're not just looking at the gross IRR, we think about expense load of the business and the team is very mindful of that.

我想說的是，承銷商已經內化了這一點。當我們考慮交易並考慮是否進行交易時，我們不僅僅關注總內部收益率，我們還考慮業務的費用負擔，團隊非常關注這一點。

Got you...

明白你...

Go ahead, Matt.

繼續吧，馬特。

The other question was just on what you're writing in terms of new business today as it relates to by case type and by industry. Has there been any sort of shift that you've seen in either of those categories?

另一個問題是關於您今天在新業務方面所寫的內容，因為它與案例類型和行業有關。您在這兩個類別中是否看到過任何變化？

Okay. Go ahead, Jon.

好的。繼續吧，喬恩。

What I was mostly going to say is, we've said from the beginning that we are opportunistic. And we basically -- because we have patent experts, international arbitration experts, commercial litigation experts, we can look at insolvency, we can look at like you name it, we can look at it. That means particularly because the large law firms that bring us business have practice groups in many of those areas, and we've developed relationships with pockets and with entire firms, they bring us that.

我主要想說的是，我們從一開始就說過我們是機會主義的。基本上，因為我們有專利專家、國際仲裁專家、商業訴訟專家，我們可以研究破產問題，我們可以研究你能想到的問題，我們可以研究它。這尤其意味著，因為為我們帶來業務的大型律師事務所在許多這些領域都有業務團隊，而且我們已經與口袋和整個公司建立了關係，他們為我們帶來了這一點。

So that creates diversification regardless, as we've also said, though, when we see an opportunity, we like where we've done one investment, another investment, and we begin to see an industry where a number of companies have been suffered the same legal wrongdoing and have claims, and they would be in need of capital.

因此，無論如何，正如我們也說過的那樣，當我們看到機會時，我們喜歡我們已經進行了一項投資、另一項投資的地方，並且我們開始看到一個許多公司都遭受了損失的行業。同樣的法律不法行為並有索賠，他們將需要資金。

We will expand in that area. So I wouldn't say it necessarily happens to coincide with a particular economic moment or seen in the economy, it can be a theme because there could be in one industry, a particular set of wrongdoing that results in claims. So I don't know that I would consider it a trend.

我們將在該領域進行擴展。因此，我不會說它一定恰好與特定的經濟時刻或在經濟中看到的情況相一致，它可能是一個主題，因為在一個行業中可能存在一系列特定的不當行為，導致索賠。所以我不知道我是否會將其視為一種趨勢。

That being said, we clearly have enjoyed geographic expansion, right? We've done much more in other jurisdictions when you think back on us having been just North American U.S. litigation and U.K. litigation and some arbitration. We've gone way beyond that. Chris, you had something to say as well though.

話雖這麼說，我們顯然已經享受到了地域擴張，對吧？回想一下，我們在其他司法管轄區所做的工作要多得多，我們只是在北美進行美國訴訟、英國訴訟和一些仲裁。我們已經遠遠超出了這個範圍。克里斯，你也有話要說。

No, I think that really did capture it. Obviously, there's -- litigation trends are also affected by exogenous events. So we're looking at some COVID business now. We didn't do any COVID business obviously before COVID. Bankruptcies are returning in a way that they haven't for the last half dozen years. So that will tend to skew some more bankruptcy activity.

不，我認為那確實捕捉到了它。顯然，訴訟趨勢也受到外部事件的影響。所以我們現在正在研究一些新冠疫情業務。在新冠疫情之前，我們顯然沒有做過任何新冠疫情業務。破產正在以一種過去六年來從未有過的方式捲土重來。因此，這往往會導致更多的破產活動。

Antitrust enforcement or competition enforcement tends to be driven to some extent by political wins. So when you've got Democrats in the White House and aggressive antitrust enforcement in Europe, you tend to see more competition in antitrust cases than you might with a Republican administration.

反壟斷執法或競爭執法往往在某種程度上受到政治勝利的推動。因此，當民主黨入主白宮、歐洲積極實施反壟斷執法時，你往往會看到反壟斷案件中的競爭比共和黨政府更激烈。

So those kinds of dynamics are in the mix as well. And as we -- as I said earlier, as we head into a period of economic stress, we're likely to see some more insolvency-related activity, too. But those are sort of broad trends.

因此，這些動力也混合在一起。正如我之前所說，當我們進入經濟壓力時期時，我們也可能會看到更多與破產相關的活動。但這些都是大趨勢。

Right. Exactly. As the default moment picks up, you expect to see more delegation. And then on that -- on just the geography question, I mean, are you saying you're seeing more growth -- outsized growth in the non-North America or non-European regions that you do businesses?

正確的。確切地。隨著默認時刻的到來，您期望看到更多的委派。然後，就地理問題而言，我的意思是，你是說你看到了更多的增長——在你開展業務的非北美或非歐洲地區出現了超大規模的增長？

Well, we're seeing more -- so we're seeing more activity because we're starting from a smaller base. So it's not -- I'm not trying to suggest, Jon and I are not trying to suggest that there's some falloff in the U.S. that is being compensated for by some increase in Europe.

嗯，我們看到了更多——所以我們看到了更多的活動，因為我們是從較小的基礎開始的。所以這不是——我並不是想暗示，喬恩和我並不是想暗示美國的一些衰退正在被歐洲的一些增長所補償。

We're seeing somewhat more activity in Europe and the Middle East because we devoted some more resources to those, but that also is a -- as you all know, it's a multiyear process. It's not -- you don't -- we opened an office in Dubai, not very long ago.

我們看到歐洲和中東的活動有所增加，因為我們在這些方面投入了更多的資源，但這也是一個——眾所周知，這是一個多年的過程。這不是——你不知道——我們不久前在迪拜開設了辦事處。

I'm pleased with the volume of business that we have seen that we're starting to look at out of the Middle East, but that doesn't turn into cash for some years.

我對我們開始關注中東以外的業務量感到滿意，但這些業務在幾年內都不會轉化為現金。

And we've got a couple of questions on the webcast. To begin with, from Alistair Lindsay, you reported continued strong flow of milestone events through 9 June or any of the milestone events so far in Q2 noteworthy in terms of significant wins or unexpected losses. Nothing comes to mind, I would call it business as usual. At the same time, though, back to my sort of long-ish, if about milestones, we -- especially now that we're doing quarterly reporting, we're not proposing effectively to pre-report on the current quarter when we report on the prior quarter.

我們在網絡廣播中提出了幾個問題。首先，阿利斯泰爾·林賽 (Alistair Lindsay) 報告了截至 6 月 9 日持續強勁的里程碑事件，或迄今為止第二季度的任何里程碑事件，在重大勝利或意外損失方面值得注意。什麼也沒想到，我會稱之為一切如常。但與此同時，回到我的長篇大論，如果關於里程碑，我們——尤其是現在我們正在做季度報告，我們並不建議在我們報告時有效地預先報告當前季度上一季度。

And so I think we're going to have to wait until our soon-to-be forthcoming second quarter quarterly report since this one was obviously somewhat delayed by the delay in our full year results to talk about Q2.

因此，我認為我們將不得不等到即將發布的第二季度季度報告，因為該報告顯然因全年業績的延遲而有所延遲，才能討論第二季度。

And then another question from Miguel Gonzalo. Are you involved in the litigation claims relating to the Credit Suisse subordinated debt write-off? And do you have any legal view about that?

然後是米格爾·岡薩洛的另一個問題。您是否涉及與瑞士信貸次級債務核銷相關的訴訟索賠？您對此有什麼法律看法嗎？

So I don't know if Jon has a general comment that he'd like to make. We, of course, don't comment on specific cases whether we're involved in them or not, unless they have become public through some other course.

所以我不知道喬恩是否有他想要發表的一般性評論。當然，無論我們是否參與其中，我們都不會評論具體案例，除非它們已通過其他課程公開。

Yes. I don't think -- I don't think it's something that we should comment on. We prefer not to comment on specific litigation.

是的。我不認為——我不認為這是我們應該評論的事情。我們不願對具體訴訟發表評論。

It's obviously a tangled situation. Yes. It's obviously a tangled situation and shows as well the benefit of a close and careful reading of the documents. And another question, at what point would your stock be considered for index inclusion?

這顯然是一個糾結的局面。是的。這顯然是一個複雜的情況，也顯示了仔細閱讀文檔的好處。還有一個問題，您的股票什麼時候會被考慮納入指數？

So we are already included in the relevant U.K. indices. And in terms of the U.S. indices, the criteria are basically a combination of where your shares are trading and what index you'd fall in. So we would hope as we continue to build our U.S. liquidity and U.S. trading volume that along with that would come U.S. index inclusion, but it's a process. It's not something that happens overnight. So the first -- the next step along the way is really that test that I mentioned before at June 30.

所以我們已經被納入英國相關指數中。就美國指數而言，標準基本上是您的股票交易地點和您所屬指數的組合。因此，我們希望，隨著我們繼續建立我們的美國流動性和美國交易量，隨之而來的是美國指數納入其中，但這是一個過程。這不是一朝一夕發生的事情。所以第一步——下一步就是我之前在 6 月 30 日提到的測試。

And so with that, I think that we are going to keep to our plan of this not taking too much of your time every quarter. We hope that you found getting quarterly data from us useful and helpful.

因此，我認為我們將堅持我們的計劃，每個季度不會佔用您太多時間。我們希望您發現從我們這裡獲取的季度數據有用且有幫助。

And as I said, we'll be back in the not-too-distant future to share Q2 with you. So thank you again, everyone, for your support. We're thrilled with how Q1 went and the ability to print these truly extraordinary numbers. And we'll talk to you soon.

正如我所說，我們將在不久的將來回來與您分享第二季度的情況。再次感謝大家的支持。我們對第一季度的進展以及打印這些真正非凡數字的能力感到非常興奮。我們很快就會和你談談。

Thank you.

謝謝。